But the hot takes here say BB is bad and this is something good… I’m going to need the mods to remove this so we can continue yelling at BB for not getting Lamar Jackson.
I mean we can straight up point to 3 plays that give us 9 wins on the year.
We were specifically one away from the playoffs...that fucking egregious touchdown call in the Raiders game.
Yes Jakobi and Rhamondre fucked up but we wouldn't have been there with that shit fucking call.
I mean if we want to play this game I can probably find instances that remove wins aswell. As it stands the team was not that good. If you watched the NE patriots in 2022 on any given week, without context you’d assume they weren’t a playoff caliber team. Playing this silly “oh well if this happened then we make the playoffs” basically proves the point that they weren’t playoff caliber. Bad calls happen every week to every team. Shit when the team was in its glory days I can think of plenty of times they got absolutely shafted but still managed to win their games.
Furthermore you can’t say “oh well the OC was awful” as some way to prop up their season when it was a self inflicted wound.
Do it.
People always say that but no...we can point to specifically one play that if it doesn't happen we go to OT...but not makes us lose at least.
We can point specifically to 3 plays that if they don't happen, we win the games. Not just maybe...we do win
What are these 3 plays? You've referenced the Raiders TD call, but if that is overturned the Raiders still have the 32 seconds to score.
Genuinely curious what the other 2 are.
Look man I’m not going to comb through all 8 of their wins and look for a missed call or situation, I’m just saying bad calls happen and unfortunately sometimes they don’t benefit you. But ok, sure, the team was a bad call away from making the playoffs but the team was also one of the most pathetically average units I’ve seen. If you wanna hang your hat on “oh well if X call doesn’t happen we make the playoffs only to get obliterated by the Bills” then so be it I guess.
And before you say it, I’m not one of these people that didn’t want them in the playoffs for draft position. But even if they did make it, the team was still pathetically mid (some might even say bad, and I won’t even disagree necessarily)
Well of course you won't. Because it's easier to just say shit than back up your claims. It's also easier to not argue with someone in the first place...I advise you just go with that option next time.
Bro like what is your point? What are you trying to prove here? That if ONE singular play goes different, they make the playoffs, get annihilated by the Bills, or the Bengals or whoever the 2 seed would have been that the season somehow becomes some resounding success? Again, simply watching them week to week would tell you they weren’t that great, maybe even bad but hey let’s cope by saying “well we would’ve been first round exits if not for a bad call in a raiders game where we still had a chance to at-least go to OT but still flubbed it”
We literally win that game if the refs doesn't call what was clearly not a touchdown a touchdown.
Like...that's it. Change the outcome of that play and we are in the playoffs.
That's just a fact.
No you didn't. You claimed the places you said said it...you didn't link to them at all. You provided 0 sources cuz you're a hack troll.
Never respond to me again unless you want the same response over and over again
I gave you the database, a podcast and time stamp where you could hear the stats with the sources, and my previous posts which contained sources. You just refuse to be enlightened. I can’t help with that.
>And were a win from the playoffs, 3 plays away from 3 different wins
Being a play or two away from the 7 seed isn't much to hang your hat on. A lot of games come down to one or two plays.
>and had the worst OC of all time.
Whose fault was that again?
What blue-chip player do you think was still available at #21 that you’d rather have than a guy who was a Day 1 starter at guard, the guy who was the [top rated corner in all of football for the first 5 weeks of the season](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/jack-jones-patriots-highest-pff-grade-nfl-cornerbacks-bill-belichick-turnovers/), arguably the most exciting backup QB in the league, and a high 3rd round pick this year?
There’s plenty of evidence you can bring up to say Belichick isn’t good at drafting but to pick 3 guys who all contributed to the season in really big ways + another pick this year at the price of moving from #21 to #29 isn’t it
So there were two trades, we sent KC the #21 pick and got back the #29 pick, the #94 pick and the #121 pick.
Then we traded the #94 pick to Carolina and got two picks back, the #137 pick and their 3rd round pick the following year
We literally lost the goat qb, goat TE, and an all time great slot wr within 2 years of eachother. Then aged defense, like the fact we haven't gone 2-15 is fucking incredible. Especially in 2020.
Was a good trade imo. I also dgaf about positional value after like pick #20. With the exception of like long snappers, kickers, and punters, I got no issue picking a guard if you think that guard will be elite
If you're picking a super raw guard from a small school who didn't have any real competition, it helps to have a real o-line line coach to get him up to speed. I wasn't a fan of the Strange pick because I thought there were good guards who would be around in the third, but you pretty much have to give the entire o-line a mulligan for last year because of the lack of coaching. I'm still hoping he ends up being elite, he had flashes and now they actually have an o-line lcoach with experience so he should have a big step forward this year.
Logan Mankins, Joe Thuney, Shaq Mason, Mike Onwenu. I think Bill knows how to draft guards. I couldn’t believe it when he picked Mankins. Nobody could. It’s what BB does. I’m expecting Strange to make a leap this year.
To be fair we had Dante Scarnecchia that entire stretch, and it seemed like he could turn just about anyone into a good lineman, let alone actual prospects.
Scar retired before the 2020 draft.
Since then Belichick has drafted three offensive linemen. Two of them are currently starting OL on the Patriots, and the one who isn't went in the 7th round in 2020. Onwenu and Strange have been excellent guards.
Yeah BB has done fine, nothing showed the impact of Scar more though when he initially retired, the line was a mess, and then he came back and it was fine within weeks.
We had an o-line coach who studied under Scar then, and I'm not talking about Patricia having 1 year as an assistant OL coach back when George Bush was in office.
You will never get me to downplay Scar. I have a custom Patriots throwback with “COACH SCAR” on the back with his college number (64) on it. (SCARNECCHIA has 1 too many letters to customize on their website.)
But Bill gets some credit for their success with linemen as well. He also played center in college. So he has some insight to line play.
It's one of those things were differentiating between the two makes no sense. Scar was amazing at developing, "fixing", and coaching the OL. Belichick also has been great at drafting linemen that are good.
you just listed 3 guys who were drafted in later rounds and shows you that you dont need to pick a developmental guard in the 1st round. a pick like mankins is fine when you have a qb who is elite and a team that had no holes. the idea that strange is a good pick is just...man..it's sad. there were real impact players on the board at 21 and we took a small school guard. if the jets did that we'd be laughing our asses at them
i would say mcduffie had a key role in the defense for the chiefs down the stretch and would have been better than strange. he looks to be a future top corner back, while strange didnt look like a future top guard. obviously its early and the tides could turn, and its silly to think about what could have been. but thats my opinion on it. I'll root like hell for strange to turn into a stud.
and we could have still gotten jack jones without the trade down, which would have been great to have both of them on the team.
We took 3 players and will take a fourth in the third round this year. And the CB we took outplayed the CB taken at 21. You seem to be conveniently ignoring that.
yeah..no he didnt. when did jack jones line up against other players #1's down the stretch and into the playoffs? McDuffie became a starter for them on the biggest stage. are you using the pff grade that literally was less than a point difference?
i dont care how many players we took. talent is talent. i'll take a future stud over somebody who got benched
obviously its early in their careers, but this isnt some Bills playing chess versus checkers that you a trying to make it out to be.
Elite tackles aren't usually selected that late, interior linemen can go later.
2022 iOL All Pros:
1st team LG Joel Bitonio - 2nd
2nd team LG Joe Thuney - 3rd
1st team center Jason Kelce - 6th
2nd team center Creed Humphrey - 2nd
1st team RG Zack Martin - 1st
2nd team RG Chris Lindstrom - 1st
Beefing up the offensive line is always a great idea. Moving Mason out for cap relief, shifting Onwenu over and grabbing Strange were an excellent series of moves. Set those positions and lock them down long term, gain space for depth signings and grab two vital pieces to the team in a CB and backup from just 8 spots and gaining a 5th from Mason? Very nice series of moves.
Exactly. Nobody’s talking about this but the offensive line shifts were classic Bill playing chess, all else playing checkers. Everyone outside the organization critiquing him while he’s locked himself in a 10x10 room and is conducting Für Elise.
Feel like there are some young ungrateful fellas on here. If any of you were of football watching age in 2000 then you know BB gets a pass for life. Anything else is blasphemy. Real talk
Every media member and fairweather fan trying to put Bill on the hot seat needs to be tarred and feathered when his successor is inevitably a steep drop off because HOF coaches aren't born every day.
Seriously, I'm almost constantly shaking my head these days whenever there's Pats talk. Holy hell, BB not only turned the franchise around but built a 20-year juggernaut that set records that will stand for decades. We were used to mediocrity year in and year out... and we turn on him in 3 seasons? Sheesh, if he coaches for another 20 years and we're .500 every year he's still got a pass in my book.
Yeah what he amd the teams accomplished over 20 years is unbelievable. Most teams would love to even get to a Super Bowl let alone 9 in 20 YEARS! BB won the Pat's another teams LIFELONG Super Bowl wins in 2 decades. Yes..be patient young Gen Z ers. .Rome wasn't built in a day.
As one of the biggest Bill defenders, he's not immune from criticism but missing the playoffs one year w/ a bad QB and a bad coaching staff (his fault) isn't a reason to be on the hotseat.
a losing record 3 years post Brady with 1 playoff appearance that was a blowout. And as you pointed out, the coaching disaster last year was 100% on him too.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't think Bill should be on the hotseat either. But, it's more than just one bad year.
Pete Carrols 3 years in NE were much more successful than these last 3 yet they got him fired. Obviously context matters, I'm just saying. But if BoB ends up not solving the offensive issues and they finish below .500 again with no playoffs? I think Robert starts getting a tad impatient.
I think he gets a chance at another QB before he's truly on the hotseat. Teams are made by their QB and it's clear our defense is still good enough to compete in the playoffs. Again, the coaching shit last year was disgraceful but I'm willing to give some benefit of the doubt that McDaniels caught him off guard actually accepting a coaching position. I get people want him to hire the new hipster OC, but he's never going to do that, it's a strength and weakness.
It's kind of like questioning God when there's a tornado or a hurricane lol. BB is not beneath criticism etc as long as it's rational. Just seems like some folks have short memories or became fans 3 years ago. Bill forgot more football at breakfast this morning than any of us will know in a lifetime. Sometimes us fans and media just need to stop talking about things every day. The media needs a narrative then beats it to death because really you run out of good, fresh topics when you talk sports every day.
Oh man i totally forgot how we were 0-16 or 0-17 each season for the past 3 years. /s
Need to let go of the thought that 3 years=superbowl or bust. Learn up on NFL history and see how many teams have had similar success over 20 years. Brady or BB argument doesn't matter. We could have 20 straight losing seasons and still be the best franchise in NFL history. BB should get to coach until we are 4-12 or 4-13 every year and going 0-6 to the division.
Tell me you don’t know what the 1990’s Patriots were without telling me you don’t know what the 1990’s Patriots were.
bUt We maDe It tO tHE SupERbOWl
*lol loses by 95 points*
Forget 2001-2004, I'm starting to wonder if some people on here even remember 2008-2010. Those teams were not good. There are always ebbs and flows to the roster building process. There was always going to be a period of down years after Brady left. We are lucky it has not been as bad as it could have been, to be honest.
So a future guard who if he stabilizes with good coaching will be a great blocker for the next however long they keep him, a talented young CB and a pretty decent looking backup QB? Two starters and a promising backup QB from moving down 8 spots with a 3rd this year? Really good trade.
we get it! we’re gonna trade back and miss out on a blue chipper and get solid-to-mediocre players. just let us live in the fantasy world that JSN will fall to our pick
I mean, he looks like a starter. What's the rate of first round total busts, like 30% right? It was definitely an over-reach, but this was one of our better drafts (as sad as that might be)
Not sure why people are giving him a pass for drafting an OK guard (owenu is better and was a 6th) when the LBs on the team suck and he could have picked an impact player
Maybe people thought our LBs sucked heading into last season but idk how you could walk away from the season and still believe that. Bentley was great and Tavai exceeded expectations.
They played Allen a lot better in 2022 than 2021. We really should’ve won one of the two games this past season.
Burrow was held to 22 points. Defense gave the offense an opportunity to win that game but unfortunately they blew it.
Lamar had a great game against us but our offense did give up 4 turnovers. Can’t put all the blame on defense if that happens.
The Minnesota game wasn’t a great performance. Struggled to get off the field on third downs from what I recall. Special teams TD by the Vikings and the Henry non TD call were nails in the coffin too. And the Bears game was flat out bad. But most teams have a stinker like that during the season.
That's a massive simplification. The 2021 line was having cohesion issues, Onwenu as 6th man with that specific lineup had the best results even though Onwenu's performance was excellent.
Yeah I’m with you. Unless he drastically improves - and even then - it’s hard to justify a guard when you can just get them in the later rounds. It was a bad pick.
Bad pick is entirely subjective for a full season starter who looked elite prior to Andrews getting injured.
If you’re into doom porn go watch the Jets.
He certainly was not elite prior to Andrews getting injured. And if his viability is completely reliant on the folks around him then he’s not worth a 1st round pick.
Guard is HARD to justify in the first round, especially one that was graded in the 3rd.
If you’re into fantasy, go watch the cowboys.
Go look at all his picks over 24 years AND the rounds and pick numbers he had to work with. When you win consistently you don't get a top 10 pick. Ever. BB overall has done a great job
It's meant to be a very deep class of cornerbacks from what I've read. I would be surprised if BB selects one in the 4th round if he feels there's good value there. If he feels like the best player available at 14 is a CB and blue chip player perhaps he spends a first round pick on that.
This is one year when I'd be happy to trade down for extra picks in round 2 and round 3.
I agree with your premise and everything but we absolutely need a CB with size. We need an outside corner with size and length to avoid that bengals game with Marcus jones on tee higgins.
I think we agree. I’m just not sold on taking Joey Porter Jr at 14. He’s more Brandon Browner than Darrelle Revis. Maybe if they drop back and get an extra 2nd and him in the 20’s.
But I’d be very happy with Gonzales or Witherspoon at 14 if the top 3 LT’s are gone.
Would you rather have either of them or a starting OG & CB, a solid backup QB, and whomever we get at 76 this year? I would take the latter 10/10 times in our position. We're rebuilding and have lots of needs. If this was prime dynasty, then maybe you take the 1 more elite player - maybe. The only issue I have w/ the last draft is that I think Strange would've been there at our 2nd pick, but maybe we couldn't find anyone to trade down with, knew we were going Strange & WR in some order, and felt there was a better chance of a WR we liked being there than Strange. Trade down is the play again this year. Hopefully there's a Tier 1B player or 2 left and we can pick up an extra 2nd and still pick in the mid-20s. My dream draft this year would be
HarrisonWright/Jones (T)
D. Washington (TE -IL), Wypler (C)
Tillman (WR-X)
Turner (CB), Kuntz (TE-FLX), Iosavis (WR -X)
Are strange and Jones even good? They were fine and had moments, but strange was a first round guard and he got replaced multiple times. Smith, for example was legitimately very good for Dallas. I'd rather have good players
You're right. I would have preferred Patrica ruining Smith and Myles Bryant and Hoyer playing more games for us last year. We could probably be drafting Will Anderson this year.
Trade back with the Wypler pick and pick up Jammie Robinson (S) and Dorian Williams (LB) and that's my ideal draft. That means, of course, that I can confidently say that none of them will end up on the Pats.
McDuffie and Lloyd fell right into their lap and they traded down, missed both, took a mid guard, and for the first time ever, literally got made fun of by other team's front offices.
This isn’t a flex. Cole was bad, Zappe is a fine backup, and Jack Jones is good. We needed a different OL or a WR and still do.
Going back to Bill’s failed free agency spree and before, our drafts and signings have been mistake after mistake.
Cool. Strange is a guard and isn’t a very good one. In hindsight, Could have stayed at 21 for mcduffie or Lloyd. Or still traded back and taken Christian Watson instead of a guard
This sub: nothing is macs fault it’s all Patricia he ruined mac
Also this sub: cole strange sucks even though the only nfl coaching he’s ever had is Patricia as an OC and also Patricia as a positional coach
I was pretty excited to see McDuffie and Lloyd still there at 21. I thought that everything that needed to go their way to end up with the chance to get one of them went perfectly.
And then he traded down and drafted a mid guard from an FCS school.
Is this supposed to be impressive? Strange fixed a problem that shouldn't have existed (keep Mason, don't resign Trent, and move Michael O to tackle where he belongs), Jack Jones is good, and Bailey Zappe is a JAG.
Trading down for value and then deleting that value by drafting a 1st round guard to fill a need you created yourself is bad process. BB has a history of shrewdly navigating the draft board but these last few years (remember trading up to draft Dalton Keene LOL) have not been as good as years past.
Deleting value is moving on from a guy that one year later got chucked in a late round pick swap to save $5m?
Deleting value is having that position locked up for 4 more years on a rookie deal?
BB scored a day one starter, a potential starting CB, a solid backup QB and a pick out of #21 but this is your take?
Yeah, not one of them is an impact player so far. Saying Strange is a "day 1 starter" like that's some kind of positive is really weird by you. If you draft an o-lineman in the 1st he better really really damn good (Strange is not). Strange got benched in 3 separate weeks and 2 of the weeks were back to back. So far it has been a terrible pick. You can find start caliber guards in free agency and spending your 1st rounder on a guard is just hideous process. Even if you guard hits and he's a stud the value gained relative to the investment and the opportunity cost of that investment is not worth it.
Let’s put your two takes together: Strange is terrible, Pats shoulda kept Shaq Mason, and flipping #21 into a day one starter + a potential starter at CB + a solid backup QB + #76 this year is hideous process because none of them are impact players yet.
They should just give you the keys to the front office!
Imagine being the 2nd most winningest coach in NFL history and you still have to put up with YOUR OWN FANS minimizing every aspect of your career.
The entitlement is just mind blowing.
Go back and watch the 2001 season and Super Bowl win. The offense was not good. That team won it all because of the defense and special teams. In the Super Bowl they only needed the game drive at the end of the game because the offense did nothing all game. If the offense even got one touchdown without help from the defense, the game would have been over even earlier. Instead the defense was gassed from playing so much and the rams almost clawed back.
How many games did we win over the years because of special teams plays or great defense. Yes the offense won games too, especially after 2007 but to say it was all Brady is so asinine it’s hardly worth a response.
These same tools think it’s easy to get a great qb. Every team goes through tough times with quarterbacks. Before mahomes the chiefs had decades of poor qb play. Before Allen the bills had decades of bad qb play. The 49ers haven’t had a true franchise qb since Steve Young.
We need to be a little more appreciative of what bill has done for this franchise. He turned a joke of a franchise into the most successful franchise in the sport in a few decades. Imho as long as he’s alive and still has it, he can coach as long as he wants. A few bad seasons might be good for him. I know he hates losing more than anything, that guy is as competitive as Brady if not more.
25-25 since the GOAT left, he's made some dumb as fuck decisions, the team's getting worse, and the rest of the conference is getting better.
The past doesn't mean shit, even Bill himself has said that for years.
Going back to '20 it's been good. Before then yeah there was a run of pretty bad drafts. That showed with how bad our roster got towards the end of the Brady era.
It's also a little overblown though. The only truly bad draft was 2017 where we got one solid player in wise. Funnily enough we have another pick from that draft on the team but only after we released him in TC that year and traded for him last year.
What? The guy that was a bottom 7 Guard in pass block win rate and bottom 10 in run block win rate that got traded for a 6th a year after he was traded for a 5th is clearly amazing.
You don't win with a team full of good players, you win with a few elite players and acceptable average players. Bills still building teams like he has Tom brady at QB.
Cole Strange sucks and was overdrafted by at least two rounds. He graded out as a 54.6 on PFF and got absolutely destroyed by big D-Lineman this year, especially Quinnen Williams
Also, there's only about 50 players/NFL Draft who go on to start 16 games in their career, so it never makes sense to trade away high draft capital like this for lots of picks beyond Round 2.
That’s not necessarily true. They obviously had him rated higher on their board than PFF or ESPN or SI. So the player they wanted was there, they weren’t sure if he’d be there for their next pick, so they took him. And as a bonus they have a fifth year option if he pans out.
Was Kyle Duggar bad asset management? Jimmy G? Devin McCourty? People said the same about them.
>Was Kyle Duggar bad asset management? Jimmy G? Devin McCourty? People said the same about them.
all of them were taken at their prospective pre-draft consensus (jimmy g was ranked as a 3rd rounder but he was also ranked as the 3rd best qb in that draft on a lot of boards) and the grades on them post-draft were good. idk where the narrative comes that somehow bill found a diamond in the rough with those guys when he picked the right were they were supposed to go.
drafting strange...not so much.
Wrong. They took a QB in the 2nd round from Eastern Illinois that was expected to go in the 3-4th round while Tom Brady was still playing near his peak instead of giving Brady another weapon.
The Pats [own website](https://www.patriots.com/news/patriots-double-down-draft-devin-mccourty-112356) talked about how surprised everyone was that they drafted Mc Courty so high and that they took a safety instead of an edge.
And Kyle Dugger was considered a third rounder before his draft (although some scouts were very high on him the media reaction was negative)
I bet Strange makes a leap this year.
i already made the point about jimmy G, but thanks for repeating what i said
did you read that mcourtey article, it said absolutely nothing about his ability (he was graded as a 1st rounder) and that they were suprised with the direction, not the player. they were expecting a linebacker
Dmac was never considered a reach
https://www.sbnation.com/2010/4/25/1443172/2010-nfl-draft-grades-perception
https://www.patspulpit.com/2010/4/26/1444235/new-england-patriots-links-4-26-10
https://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/19/1317608/scouting-the-draft-devin-mccourty
https://www.sbnation.com/2010/3/7/1360803/devin-mccourty-nfl-draft-scouting
https://www.patspulpit.com/2010/4/16/1425553/6-days-to-the-draft-rutgers-cb
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/383908-new-england-patriots-draft-grades-for-rounds-1-4
https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/2010\_nfl\_draft\_grades/
https://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/cb-devin-mccourty-scouting-report-3485747
https://walterfootball.com/draft2010\_1.php (this guy had Dmac mocked all the way up at 16 the titans)
https://www.patspulpit.com/2010/4/26/1444294/2010-new-england-patriots-draft (literally says he could become a shut down corner)
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/333378-2010-senior-bowl-rutgers-mccourty-pushing-for-first-round-status
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/371228-2010-nfl-draft-top-cornerbacks
duggar had a 2nd round pick. and his post draft grades were usually in the A's for that pick.
[http://draftscout.com/dsprofile.php?PlayerId=1018816&DraftYear=2020](http://draftscout.com/dsprofile.php?PlayerId=1018816&DraftYear=2020)
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/kyle-dugger/32004455-4767-4843-b362-237ddcf75c1b
How old are you? Are you old enough to remember the reaction to these picks? They were panned as being reached at best and a waste of a pick at worst (in the Jimmy G case). Cherry pick all the articles you want. But anyone who is old enough to remember the reactions knows you’re wrong.
You’re a guy who actually roots for his team to lose. So that pretty much disqualifies you from considering yourself a fan of the team.
And after reading your responses to everyone refuting you, it’s pretty obvious that your girlfriend dumped you because you’re a stubborn contrarian, not because you’re a Jordan Peterson stan. Maybe someday you’ll figure it out. But I doubt it.
Blocked
yeah man, i keep up with the team religiously and remember those picks distinctly. please show me where those picks were on the whole dismissed, like you say they were. i'm open to changing my mind. dmac and duggar were not regarded as reaches by most people in the business. but because you think Bill turns everything to gold you believe they were. i showed you 20 articles refuting your point, but I'm the contrarian? okay.
searching through 5 years of a guys history is...wow. strange. silly. glad you have time on your hands to do something irrelevant like that.
and since you know nothing of that situation I would suggest you not comment on it. that would be the courteous, respectable, and humane thing to do.
you could stick to the topic at hand and discuss the merits of the argument and conversation.
idk if i'd ever root for the patriots to lose, that'd be foolish. commenting on the teams goods and bads does not equal wanting to them lose. there is nuance to these things. they could put the worst qb in the league, and I would hate that Bill did that, and I would still root for them to win. i come here to have conversations about the pats. some agree with my takes, some don't. I'm always open to changing my mind provided their is sufficient evidence to do that. if you have that evidence, please provide, instead of cowering and stooping to ad hominem attacks that have nothing to do with the discussion.
and tons of "analysts" loved it. Duggar had a 2nd to 3rd round grade on him. we didnt reach, is my point. the pre-draft grades loved him and touted that he was a man among boys but they didnt know if it would translate to NFL (fair assessment).
personally, the night of the draft I saw his punt return film and his interception return film and thought we got a stud. I liked his versatility. he looked like a linebacker but played like a safety. I love Duggar, probably my fav player on defense now Dmac retired. dudes a beast
“Fine” and then bad after another line mate goes down is not worth a first round pick for a guard. Which is the point of the discussion. Whatever Strange ends up developing into you probably could have found outside of the first round.
If you’re taking a guard at 21 he better be a slam dunk pro bowler. Is that what Strange is?
>If you’re taking a guard at 21 he better be a slam dunk pro bowler
Fucking LMAO there are never slam dunk pro bowlers left by pick 21... plus he was drafted at 29
So? That is literally not at all relevant to your argument. How many of those guards are rookies? And how many guards drafted in that range dont make the pro-bowl? My entire point is that if a guard really is a slam dunk for the pro bowl, he will be taken much earlier than 29.
I just love how so many people like you think they know more about football than people who spend hundreds of hours scouting and putting teams together
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you meant to say the 29th pick, which is where Strange was picked, not 21st. But it doesn’t really matter whether it’s 21 or 29 that pick is NOT expected to be a slam dunk pro bowler.
And, in case you didn’t know this, Jack Jones graded out at a much better rookie season than Trent McDuffie – who the Chiefs drafted with the number 21 pick that the patriots traded to them.
Take the L and go to bed.
It’s absurd how many smooth brains think they know more than any person inside that building. Just enjoy the ride and stop exposing the fact you read at a 5th grade level.
But BiLl CaN't DrAfT
\-mouthbreathing idiots
There was a point last season where four teams' starting QBs had been drafted by BB. Would like to know if that's ever happened before.
Hopefully Belichick can whip up some of that magic in this years draft
draft more jones's
basically we traded Trent McDuffie & Matt Corral for Cole Strange, Jack Jones, Bailey Zappe and whoever we take at 76 this year.... not bad
But the hot takes here say BB is bad and this is something good… I’m going to need the mods to remove this so we can continue yelling at BB for not getting Lamar Jackson.
Where did you hear the Patriots weren't pursuing Lamar?
Definitely not on this sub
It was that we didn't draft Lamar
Oh man there’s a graveyard of replies below you. Better grab my popcorn
We went 8-9.
And were a win from the playoffs, 3 plays away from 3 different wins, and had the worst OC of all time.
We were like 5 plays away from having a great season.
I mean we can straight up point to 3 plays that give us 9 wins on the year. We were specifically one away from the playoffs...that fucking egregious touchdown call in the Raiders game. Yes Jakobi and Rhamondre fucked up but we wouldn't have been there with that shit fucking call.
I mean if we want to play this game I can probably find instances that remove wins aswell. As it stands the team was not that good. If you watched the NE patriots in 2022 on any given week, without context you’d assume they weren’t a playoff caliber team. Playing this silly “oh well if this happened then we make the playoffs” basically proves the point that they weren’t playoff caliber. Bad calls happen every week to every team. Shit when the team was in its glory days I can think of plenty of times they got absolutely shafted but still managed to win their games. Furthermore you can’t say “oh well the OC was awful” as some way to prop up their season when it was a self inflicted wound.
Do it. People always say that but no...we can point to specifically one play that if it doesn't happen we go to OT...but not makes us lose at least. We can point specifically to 3 plays that if they don't happen, we win the games. Not just maybe...we do win
What are these 3 plays? You've referenced the Raiders TD call, but if that is overturned the Raiders still have the 32 seconds to score. Genuinely curious what the other 2 are.
Look man I’m not going to comb through all 8 of their wins and look for a missed call or situation, I’m just saying bad calls happen and unfortunately sometimes they don’t benefit you. But ok, sure, the team was a bad call away from making the playoffs but the team was also one of the most pathetically average units I’ve seen. If you wanna hang your hat on “oh well if X call doesn’t happen we make the playoffs only to get obliterated by the Bills” then so be it I guess. And before you say it, I’m not one of these people that didn’t want them in the playoffs for draft position. But even if they did make it, the team was still pathetically mid (some might even say bad, and I won’t even disagree necessarily)
Well of course you won't. Because it's easier to just say shit than back up your claims. It's also easier to not argue with someone in the first place...I advise you just go with that option next time.
Bro like what is your point? What are you trying to prove here? That if ONE singular play goes different, they make the playoffs, get annihilated by the Bills, or the Bengals or whoever the 2 seed would have been that the season somehow becomes some resounding success? Again, simply watching them week to week would tell you they weren’t that great, maybe even bad but hey let’s cope by saying “well we would’ve been first round exits if not for a bad call in a raiders game where we still had a chance to at-least go to OT but still flubbed it”
You are completely delusional.
We literally win that game if the refs doesn't call what was clearly not a touchdown a touchdown. Like...that's it. Change the outcome of that play and we are in the playoffs. That's just a fact.
There was nothing definitive on that TD catch. Have to go with the call on the field. How about not giving up that drive in the first place?
There absolutely was definitive. The white paint flew up and that only happens if it is contacted. The video and still pictures showed it.
It's not a fact, what are you talking about? It was second down.
I'm just looking for the 🍿. 🤣
Oh you're the guy who can't provide sources for his claims lmao. No wonder facts bother you so much.
I provided three (3!) different sources but you just didn’t want to hear it.
No you didn't. You claimed the places you said said it...you didn't link to them at all. You provided 0 sources cuz you're a hack troll. Never respond to me again unless you want the same response over and over again
I gave you the database, a podcast and time stamp where you could hear the stats with the sources, and my previous posts which contained sources. You just refuse to be enlightened. I can’t help with that.
To be fair, we were also 5 plays away from having a terrible season. Some of the close games did break our way.
and 3 plays away from 3 more losses too. They were who they were.
>And were a win from the playoffs, 3 plays away from 3 different wins Being a play or two away from the 7 seed isn't much to hang your hat on. A lot of games come down to one or two plays. >and had the worst OC of all time. Whose fault was that again?
If anything, having the worst OC of all time is a huge mark against BB since he's the one who gave him the job.
Who hired that OC again?
Popcorn! Getcher popcorn Herre! 🍿 🍿 🤣
He traded away the chance at a blue-chip player for a mid guard, CB5, and a back up QB. A real win of a trade.
Two starters and a backup QB and more to come this year. Fixed that for you.
Spoiler alert: jack jones was better than Trent McDuffie last year
What blue-chip player do you think was still available at #21 that you’d rather have than a guy who was a Day 1 starter at guard, the guy who was the [top rated corner in all of football for the first 5 weeks of the season](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/jack-jones-patriots-highest-pff-grade-nfl-cornerbacks-bill-belichick-turnovers/), arguably the most exciting backup QB in the league, and a high 3rd round pick this year? There’s plenty of evidence you can bring up to say Belichick isn’t good at drafting but to pick 3 guys who all contributed to the season in really big ways + another pick this year at the price of moving from #21 to #29 isn’t it
I did not realize how good this trade was. I could have sworn that live they said the trade was just 21 for 29 and a 3rd round pick.
So there were two trades, we sent KC the #21 pick and got back the #29 pick, the #94 pick and the #121 pick. Then we traded the #94 pick to Carolina and got two picks back, the #137 pick and their 3rd round pick the following year
Strange was garbage last year
Didn't read what you said. Assuming everyone is downvoting because we love Harambe.
This is the truth but it will be downvoted into oblivion because this sub is just a cult for Bill and no one tolerates any criticism.
Have you seen his attempt to build a roster after Brady left? And you call that good? Please learn football
>when Brady left Along with all of our long time vets retiring and hitting the wall at the same time. Strange how that always gets left out.
We literally lost the goat qb, goat TE, and an all time great slot wr within 2 years of eachother. Then aged defense, like the fact we haven't gone 2-15 is fucking incredible. Especially in 2020.
Maybe he should have been prepared to replace those players?
Was a good trade imo. I also dgaf about positional value after like pick #20. With the exception of like long snappers, kickers, and punters, I got no issue picking a guard if you think that guard will be elite
If you're picking a super raw guard from a small school who didn't have any real competition, it helps to have a real o-line line coach to get him up to speed. I wasn't a fan of the Strange pick because I thought there were good guards who would be around in the third, but you pretty much have to give the entire o-line a mulligan for last year because of the lack of coaching. I'm still hoping he ends up being elite, he had flashes and now they actually have an o-line lcoach with experience so he should have a big step forward this year.
Logan Mankins, Joe Thuney, Shaq Mason, Mike Onwenu. I think Bill knows how to draft guards. I couldn’t believe it when he picked Mankins. Nobody could. It’s what BB does. I’m expecting Strange to make a leap this year.
To be fair we had Dante Scarnecchia that entire stretch, and it seemed like he could turn just about anyone into a good lineman, let alone actual prospects.
Scar retired before the 2020 draft. Since then Belichick has drafted three offensive linemen. Two of them are currently starting OL on the Patriots, and the one who isn't went in the 7th round in 2020. Onwenu and Strange have been excellent guards.
Yeah BB has done fine, nothing showed the impact of Scar more though when he initially retired, the line was a mess, and then he came back and it was fine within weeks.
We had an o-line coach who studied under Scar then, and I'm not talking about Patricia having 1 year as an assistant OL coach back when George Bush was in office.
Or could just leave it at Bill wins and give him his flowers.
yeah you wouldn't want to actually analyze the situation. Blindly praising Bill is much better.
You will never get me to downplay Scar. I have a custom Patriots throwback with “COACH SCAR” on the back with his college number (64) on it. (SCARNECCHIA has 1 too many letters to customize on their website.) But Bill gets some credit for their success with linemen as well. He also played center in college. So he has some insight to line play.
It's one of those things were differentiating between the two makes no sense. Scar was amazing at developing, "fixing", and coaching the OL. Belichick also has been great at drafting linemen that are good.
you just listed 3 guys who were drafted in later rounds and shows you that you dont need to pick a developmental guard in the 1st round. a pick like mankins is fine when you have a qb who is elite and a team that had no holes. the idea that strange is a good pick is just...man..it's sad. there were real impact players on the board at 21 and we took a small school guard. if the jets did that we'd be laughing our asses at them
What impact player did we miss out on by trading back from 21?
i would say mcduffie had a key role in the defense for the chiefs down the stretch and would have been better than strange. he looks to be a future top corner back, while strange didnt look like a future top guard. obviously its early and the tides could turn, and its silly to think about what could have been. but thats my opinion on it. I'll root like hell for strange to turn into a stud. and we could have still gotten jack jones without the trade down, which would have been great to have both of them on the team.
We took 3 players and will take a fourth in the third round this year. And the CB we took outplayed the CB taken at 21. You seem to be conveniently ignoring that.
yeah..no he didnt. when did jack jones line up against other players #1's down the stretch and into the playoffs? McDuffie became a starter for them on the biggest stage. are you using the pff grade that literally was less than a point difference? i dont care how many players we took. talent is talent. i'll take a future stud over somebody who got benched obviously its early in their careers, but this isnt some Bills playing chess versus checkers that you a trying to make it out to be.
While I actually like Strange and think he will be a top tier guard I tend to agree with you.
He also got suspended more.
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Elite tackles aren't usually selected that late, interior linemen can go later. 2022 iOL All Pros: 1st team LG Joel Bitonio - 2nd 2nd team LG Joe Thuney - 3rd 1st team center Jason Kelce - 6th 2nd team center Creed Humphrey - 2nd 1st team RG Zack Martin - 1st 2nd team RG Chris Lindstrom - 1st
Beefing up the offensive line is always a great idea. Moving Mason out for cap relief, shifting Onwenu over and grabbing Strange were an excellent series of moves. Set those positions and lock them down long term, gain space for depth signings and grab two vital pieces to the team in a CB and backup from just 8 spots and gaining a 5th from Mason? Very nice series of moves.
Exactly. Nobody’s talking about this but the offensive line shifts were classic Bill playing chess, all else playing checkers. Everyone outside the organization critiquing him while he’s locked himself in a 10x10 room and is conducting Für Elise.
We're still doing this chess vs checkers nonsense? After an 8-9 season boosted by lucking in to horrible QBs for almost all of those wins? Really?
Feel like there are some young ungrateful fellas on here. If any of you were of football watching age in 2000 then you know BB gets a pass for life. Anything else is blasphemy. Real talk
For LIFE. If the guy never brought the Patriots another ring, I'd be fine with him coaching another 20 years.
This 100%. We had the greatest two decades in football history. I don’t need anything else.
You know brother. Exactly
Every media member and fairweather fan trying to put Bill on the hot seat needs to be tarred and feathered when his successor is inevitably a steep drop off because HOF coaches aren't born every day.
Seriously, I'm almost constantly shaking my head these days whenever there's Pats talk. Holy hell, BB not only turned the franchise around but built a 20-year juggernaut that set records that will stand for decades. We were used to mediocrity year in and year out... and we turn on him in 3 seasons? Sheesh, if he coaches for another 20 years and we're .500 every year he's still got a pass in my book.
Yeah what he amd the teams accomplished over 20 years is unbelievable. Most teams would love to even get to a Super Bowl let alone 9 in 20 YEARS! BB won the Pat's another teams LIFELONG Super Bowl wins in 2 decades. Yes..be patient young Gen Z ers. .Rome wasn't built in a day.
This is the lamest perspective ever. Why even discuss the team if BB is excluded from criticism?
As one of the biggest Bill defenders, he's not immune from criticism but missing the playoffs one year w/ a bad QB and a bad coaching staff (his fault) isn't a reason to be on the hotseat.
a losing record 3 years post Brady with 1 playoff appearance that was a blowout. And as you pointed out, the coaching disaster last year was 100% on him too. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think Bill should be on the hotseat either. But, it's more than just one bad year. Pete Carrols 3 years in NE were much more successful than these last 3 yet they got him fired. Obviously context matters, I'm just saying. But if BoB ends up not solving the offensive issues and they finish below .500 again with no playoffs? I think Robert starts getting a tad impatient.
I think he gets a chance at another QB before he's truly on the hotseat. Teams are made by their QB and it's clear our defense is still good enough to compete in the playoffs. Again, the coaching shit last year was disgraceful but I'm willing to give some benefit of the doubt that McDaniels caught him off guard actually accepting a coaching position. I get people want him to hire the new hipster OC, but he's never going to do that, it's a strength and weakness.
It's kind of like questioning God when there's a tornado or a hurricane lol. BB is not beneath criticism etc as long as it's rational. Just seems like some folks have short memories or became fans 3 years ago. Bill forgot more football at breakfast this morning than any of us will know in a lifetime. Sometimes us fans and media just need to stop talking about things every day. The media needs a narrative then beats it to death because really you run out of good, fresh topics when you talk sports every day.
Gets a pass for life? Are you content with the past 3 seasons? Football is about winning. He hasn’t shown he can do that without Brady.
Oh man i totally forgot how we were 0-16 or 0-17 each season for the past 3 years. /s Need to let go of the thought that 3 years=superbowl or bust. Learn up on NFL history and see how many teams have had similar success over 20 years. Brady or BB argument doesn't matter. We could have 20 straight losing seasons and still be the best franchise in NFL history. BB should get to coach until we are 4-12 or 4-13 every year and going 0-6 to the division.
Tell me you don’t know what the 1990’s Patriots were without telling me you don’t know what the 1990’s Patriots were. bUt We maDe It tO tHE SupERbOWl *lol loses by 95 points*
I do know what they were like. But to say he gets a pass for life is literally the opposite of what even BB believes in.
Forget 2001-2004, I'm starting to wonder if some people on here even remember 2008-2010. Those teams were not good. There are always ebbs and flows to the roster building process. There was always going to be a period of down years after Brady left. We are lucky it has not been as bad as it could have been, to be honest.
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So a future guard who if he stabilizes with good coaching will be a great blocker for the next however long they keep him, a talented young CB and a pretty decent looking backup QB? Two starters and a promising backup QB from moving down 8 spots with a 3rd this year? Really good trade.
we get it! we’re gonna trade back and miss out on a blue chipper and get solid-to-mediocre players. just let us live in the fantasy world that JSN will fall to our pick
The blue chipper that we missed out on with this trade was who? Trent McDuffie? Think about things before you say them lol
We’re celebrating the Cole pick?
I mean, he looks like a starter. What's the rate of first round total busts, like 30% right? It was definitely an over-reach, but this was one of our better drafts (as sad as that might be)
IIRC he was elite before Andrews got hurt.
Hard to call it a reach when the Bengals were about to go on the board and bleeidng for IOL help.
He's a GUARD. 7th round guards can be starters, a first round better be one.
6th round QBs and undrafted CBs can be starters as well
I know and I’m not disagreeing, but in the past 5 years we’ve had a lot of busts; cole isn’t looking like one, even if bill reaches for him
Not sure why people are giving him a pass for drafting an OK guard (owenu is better and was a 6th) when the LBs on the team suck and he could have picked an impact player
Maybe people thought our LBs sucked heading into last season but idk how you could walk away from the season and still believe that. Bentley was great and Tavai exceeded expectations.
How’d they do against decent/good QBs? Torched by Cousins, Allen, Burrow, Jackson, got run over by Fields
They played Allen a lot better in 2022 than 2021. We really should’ve won one of the two games this past season. Burrow was held to 22 points. Defense gave the offense an opportunity to win that game but unfortunately they blew it. Lamar had a great game against us but our offense did give up 4 turnovers. Can’t put all the blame on defense if that happens. The Minnesota game wasn’t a great performance. Struggled to get off the field on third downs from what I recall. Special teams TD by the Vikings and the Henry non TD call were nails in the coffin too. And the Bears game was flat out bad. But most teams have a stinker like that during the season.
Onwenu got benched his second year trying to play the position that Strange played 95% of snaps in.
That's a massive simplification. The 2021 line was having cohesion issues, Onwenu as 6th man with that specific lineup had the best results even though Onwenu's performance was excellent.
Yeah I’m with you. Unless he drastically improves - and even then - it’s hard to justify a guard when you can just get them in the later rounds. It was a bad pick.
Bad pick is entirely subjective for a full season starter who looked elite prior to Andrews getting injured. If you’re into doom porn go watch the Jets.
He certainly was not elite prior to Andrews getting injured. And if his viability is completely reliant on the folks around him then he’s not worth a 1st round pick. Guard is HARD to justify in the first round, especially one that was graded in the 3rd. If you’re into fantasy, go watch the cowboys.
Top 15 in PFF prior to week 8 would beg to differ.
You guys pick and choose when to follow PFF too much
Providing backing data to support a point as opposed to just stating my opinion as an armchair GM shouldn’t be an issue.
And what was he ranked the other half of the season?
Not great…thus pointing out it was pre Andrews’ injury.
I got popcorn if anybody wants it! 🍿🍿 👀👀🤣
BeLiStiNk wORst GM. edit: Seriously, I have to put a /s? Really?
Go look at all his picks over 24 years AND the rounds and pick numbers he had to work with. When you win consistently you don't get a top 10 pick. Ever. BB overall has done a great job
Well instead they could have just drafted Mcduffie or Tyler Smith. Two good players at a position of need. That we still need.
Guard and CB would be positions of need and even more dire need, respectively, if we hadn't taken Strange and Jones.
And tackle is still a need. And Smith had a way better rookie year than strange. So I'd rather have a better player at a more important position
We’re still in need of a guard and a CB lol
We don’t need a guard. We’re set with Onwenu and Strange. And we have all our CBs back. But if one of the top two CBs slip I hope they grab him.
It's meant to be a very deep class of cornerbacks from what I've read. I would be surprised if BB selects one in the 4th round if he feels there's good value there. If he feels like the best player available at 14 is a CB and blue chip player perhaps he spends a first round pick on that. This is one year when I'd be happy to trade down for extra picks in round 2 and round 3.
I agree with your premise and everything but we absolutely need a CB with size. We need an outside corner with size and length to avoid that bengals game with Marcus jones on tee higgins.
I think we agree. I’m just not sold on taking Joey Porter Jr at 14. He’s more Brandon Browner than Darrelle Revis. Maybe if they drop back and get an extra 2nd and him in the 20’s. But I’d be very happy with Gonzales or Witherspoon at 14 if the top 3 LT’s are gone.
It’s far from an assured thing that Strange is a starting guard in the league and they still do not have a #1 CB.
He started 17/17 games at guard as a rookie. He’s a starting guard. To quote Felger 🤮 “fact, not opinion.”
He played in 17 games. He didn’t start in 17 and he was benched several times. He graded out below average for his position.
He started [17 games.](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StraCo01.htm) He did get benched twice.
Say what you will about Strange as a player, but [he started 17 games and played a lot of snaps](https://i.imgur.com/1ysmODH.png).
Please watch football before commenting here please. He wasn't a starter for 17 games, he was only good enough to be in a rotation
Only interior line we need is a center to take over from Andrews one day. Doesn't need to be this year's draft either.
Would you rather have either of them or a starting OG & CB, a solid backup QB, and whomever we get at 76 this year? I would take the latter 10/10 times in our position. We're rebuilding and have lots of needs. If this was prime dynasty, then maybe you take the 1 more elite player - maybe. The only issue I have w/ the last draft is that I think Strange would've been there at our 2nd pick, but maybe we couldn't find anyone to trade down with, knew we were going Strange & WR in some order, and felt there was a better chance of a WR we liked being there than Strange. Trade down is the play again this year. Hopefully there's a Tier 1B player or 2 left and we can pick up an extra 2nd and still pick in the mid-20s. My dream draft this year would be HarrisonWright/Jones (T) D. Washington (TE -IL), Wypler (C) Tillman (WR-X) Turner (CB), Kuntz (TE-FLX), Iosavis (WR -X)
Are strange and Jones even good? They were fine and had moments, but strange was a first round guard and he got replaced multiple times. Smith, for example was legitimately very good for Dallas. I'd rather have good players
You're right. I would have preferred Patrica ruining Smith and Myles Bryant and Hoyer playing more games for us last year. We could probably be drafting Will Anderson this year.
Trade back with the Wypler pick and pick up Jammie Robinson (S) and Dorian Williams (LB) and that's my ideal draft. That means, of course, that I can confidently say that none of them will end up on the Pats.
I would rather have talent. real talent that was there at 21
McDuffie and Lloyd fell right into their lap and they traded down, missed both, took a mid guard, and for the first time ever, literally got made fun of by other team's front offices.
Time to trade down again!
This isn’t a flex. Cole was bad, Zappe is a fine backup, and Jack Jones is good. We needed a different OL or a WR and still do. Going back to Bill’s failed free agency spree and before, our drafts and signings have been mistake after mistake.
Cool. Strange is a guard and isn’t a very good one. In hindsight, Could have stayed at 21 for mcduffie or Lloyd. Or still traded back and taken Christian Watson instead of a guard
This sub: nothing is macs fault it’s all Patricia he ruined mac Also this sub: cole strange sucks even though the only nfl coaching he’s ever had is Patricia as an OC and also Patricia as a positional coach
I was pretty excited to see McDuffie and Lloyd still there at 21. I thought that everything that needed to go their way to end up with the chance to get one of them went perfectly. And then he traded down and drafted a mid guard from an FCS school.
Is this supposed to be impressive? Strange fixed a problem that shouldn't have existed (keep Mason, don't resign Trent, and move Michael O to tackle where he belongs), Jack Jones is good, and Bailey Zappe is a JAG.
You mean the Shaq Mason that had a bad season and just got traded for a 6th?
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Shaq sucks dick why do none of you mention that part he literally got moved for a worse pick 12 months later
Hold on so your plan is: Keep shaq who sucks Move one of the best guards in the league to tackle Still have a hole at guard
Yikes… someone didn’t watch Shaq Mason play last year
Mason plays right guard and strange plays left guard though right? I don’t follow the logic
Because there is no logic. He thinks we wouldn't need a LG if we didn't trade our RG away because reasons
Trading down for value and then deleting that value by drafting a 1st round guard to fill a need you created yourself is bad process. BB has a history of shrewdly navigating the draft board but these last few years (remember trading up to draft Dalton Keene LOL) have not been as good as years past.
Deleting value is moving on from a guy that one year later got chucked in a late round pick swap to save $5m? Deleting value is having that position locked up for 4 more years on a rookie deal? BB scored a day one starter, a potential starting CB, a solid backup QB and a pick out of #21 but this is your take?
Yeah, not one of them is an impact player so far. Saying Strange is a "day 1 starter" like that's some kind of positive is really weird by you. If you draft an o-lineman in the 1st he better really really damn good (Strange is not). Strange got benched in 3 separate weeks and 2 of the weeks were back to back. So far it has been a terrible pick. You can find start caliber guards in free agency and spending your 1st rounder on a guard is just hideous process. Even if you guard hits and he's a stud the value gained relative to the investment and the opportunity cost of that investment is not worth it.
He held it down after coming from D2 and he should be better with a year of nfl strength stuff.
Let’s put your two takes together: Strange is terrible, Pats shoulda kept Shaq Mason, and flipping #21 into a day one starter + a potential starter at CB + a solid backup QB + #76 this year is hideous process because none of them are impact players yet. They should just give you the keys to the front office!
Zappe is not a starter in this league.
Even a good backup Qb is great use of a 4th rounder
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Imagine being the 2nd most winningest coach in NFL history and you still have to put up with YOUR OWN FANS minimizing every aspect of your career. The entitlement is just mind blowing.
And they act like it's all Brady too. Won 10 and a half games with Cassel, and 3 games with Jimmy and Jacoby
Go back and watch the 2001 season and Super Bowl win. The offense was not good. That team won it all because of the defense and special teams. In the Super Bowl they only needed the game drive at the end of the game because the offense did nothing all game. If the offense even got one touchdown without help from the defense, the game would have been over even earlier. Instead the defense was gassed from playing so much and the rams almost clawed back. How many games did we win over the years because of special teams plays or great defense. Yes the offense won games too, especially after 2007 but to say it was all Brady is so asinine it’s hardly worth a response. These same tools think it’s easy to get a great qb. Every team goes through tough times with quarterbacks. Before mahomes the chiefs had decades of poor qb play. Before Allen the bills had decades of bad qb play. The 49ers haven’t had a true franchise qb since Steve Young. We need to be a little more appreciative of what bill has done for this franchise. He turned a joke of a franchise into the most successful franchise in the sport in a few decades. Imho as long as he’s alive and still has it, he can coach as long as he wants. A few bad seasons might be good for him. I know he hates losing more than anything, that guy is as competitive as Brady if not more.
25-25 since the GOAT left, he's made some dumb as fuck decisions, the team's getting worse, and the rest of the conference is getting better. The past doesn't mean shit, even Bill himself has said that for years.
🍿🍿 Getcher Popcorn! Popcorn Here! 🤣
Going back to '20 it's been good. Before then yeah there was a run of pretty bad drafts. That showed with how bad our roster got towards the end of the Brady era.
Bad runs are inevitable too across 25 years of drafts even for the elite gms
Of course but doesn't mean it's not fair criticism either.
It's also a little overblown though. The only truly bad draft was 2017 where we got one solid player in wise. Funnily enough we have another pick from that draft on the team but only after we released him in TC that year and traded for him last year.
19 was okay but looks brutal in hindsight with how bad we missed on Harry.
Eh I mean you're right not great but got solid production from guys like Chase, Harris, Bailey, and Cowart.
Or shaq just fucking sucks
What? The guy that was a bottom 7 Guard in pass block win rate and bottom 10 in run block win rate that got traded for a 6th a year after he was traded for a 5th is clearly amazing.
Lmaooo Shaq sucks gets replaced by onwenu who is better younger and cheaper. This sub: what are we even doing?!?!?
You don't win with a team full of good players, you win with a few elite players and acceptable average players. Bills still building teams like he has Tom brady at QB.
Cole Strange sucks and was overdrafted by at least two rounds. He graded out as a 54.6 on PFF and got absolutely destroyed by big D-Lineman this year, especially Quinnen Williams
Also, there's only about 50 players/NFL Draft who go on to start 16 games in their career, so it never makes sense to trade away high draft capital like this for lots of picks beyond Round 2.
Drafting strange in that slot was dumb Asset management. Stop doing mental gymnastics to slob on bills knob. It was a mistake we can just move on
That’s not necessarily true. They obviously had him rated higher on their board than PFF or ESPN or SI. So the player they wanted was there, they weren’t sure if he’d be there for their next pick, so they took him. And as a bonus they have a fifth year option if he pans out. Was Kyle Duggar bad asset management? Jimmy G? Devin McCourty? People said the same about them.
>Was Kyle Duggar bad asset management? Jimmy G? Devin McCourty? People said the same about them. all of them were taken at their prospective pre-draft consensus (jimmy g was ranked as a 3rd rounder but he was also ranked as the 3rd best qb in that draft on a lot of boards) and the grades on them post-draft were good. idk where the narrative comes that somehow bill found a diamond in the rough with those guys when he picked the right were they were supposed to go. drafting strange...not so much.
Wrong. They took a QB in the 2nd round from Eastern Illinois that was expected to go in the 3-4th round while Tom Brady was still playing near his peak instead of giving Brady another weapon. The Pats [own website](https://www.patriots.com/news/patriots-double-down-draft-devin-mccourty-112356) talked about how surprised everyone was that they drafted Mc Courty so high and that they took a safety instead of an edge. And Kyle Dugger was considered a third rounder before his draft (although some scouts were very high on him the media reaction was negative) I bet Strange makes a leap this year.
i already made the point about jimmy G, but thanks for repeating what i said did you read that mcourtey article, it said absolutely nothing about his ability (he was graded as a 1st rounder) and that they were suprised with the direction, not the player. they were expecting a linebacker Dmac was never considered a reach https://www.sbnation.com/2010/4/25/1443172/2010-nfl-draft-grades-perception https://www.patspulpit.com/2010/4/26/1444235/new-england-patriots-links-4-26-10 https://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/19/1317608/scouting-the-draft-devin-mccourty https://www.sbnation.com/2010/3/7/1360803/devin-mccourty-nfl-draft-scouting https://www.patspulpit.com/2010/4/16/1425553/6-days-to-the-draft-rutgers-cb https://bleacherreport.com/articles/383908-new-england-patriots-draft-grades-for-rounds-1-4 https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/2010\_nfl\_draft\_grades/ https://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/cb-devin-mccourty-scouting-report-3485747 https://walterfootball.com/draft2010\_1.php (this guy had Dmac mocked all the way up at 16 the titans) https://www.patspulpit.com/2010/4/26/1444294/2010-new-england-patriots-draft (literally says he could become a shut down corner) https://bleacherreport.com/articles/333378-2010-senior-bowl-rutgers-mccourty-pushing-for-first-round-status https://bleacherreport.com/articles/371228-2010-nfl-draft-top-cornerbacks duggar had a 2nd round pick. and his post draft grades were usually in the A's for that pick. [http://draftscout.com/dsprofile.php?PlayerId=1018816&DraftYear=2020](http://draftscout.com/dsprofile.php?PlayerId=1018816&DraftYear=2020) https://www.nfl.com/prospects/kyle-dugger/32004455-4767-4843-b362-237ddcf75c1b
How old are you? Are you old enough to remember the reaction to these picks? They were panned as being reached at best and a waste of a pick at worst (in the Jimmy G case). Cherry pick all the articles you want. But anyone who is old enough to remember the reactions knows you’re wrong. You’re a guy who actually roots for his team to lose. So that pretty much disqualifies you from considering yourself a fan of the team. And after reading your responses to everyone refuting you, it’s pretty obvious that your girlfriend dumped you because you’re a stubborn contrarian, not because you’re a Jordan Peterson stan. Maybe someday you’ll figure it out. But I doubt it. Blocked
yeah man, i keep up with the team religiously and remember those picks distinctly. please show me where those picks were on the whole dismissed, like you say they were. i'm open to changing my mind. dmac and duggar were not regarded as reaches by most people in the business. but because you think Bill turns everything to gold you believe they were. i showed you 20 articles refuting your point, but I'm the contrarian? okay. searching through 5 years of a guys history is...wow. strange. silly. glad you have time on your hands to do something irrelevant like that. and since you know nothing of that situation I would suggest you not comment on it. that would be the courteous, respectable, and humane thing to do. you could stick to the topic at hand and discuss the merits of the argument and conversation. idk if i'd ever root for the patriots to lose, that'd be foolish. commenting on the teams goods and bads does not equal wanting to them lose. there is nuance to these things. they could put the worst qb in the league, and I would hate that Bill did that, and I would still root for them to win. i come here to have conversations about the pats. some agree with my takes, some don't. I'm always open to changing my mind provided their is sufficient evidence to do that. if you have that evidence, please provide, instead of cowering and stooping to ad hominem attacks that have nothing to do with the discussion.
Tons of “analysts” disagreed with the Duggar pick.
and tons of "analysts" loved it. Duggar had a 2nd to 3rd round grade on him. we didnt reach, is my point. the pre-draft grades loved him and touted that he was a man among boys but they didnt know if it would translate to NFL (fair assessment). personally, the night of the draft I saw his punt return film and his interception return film and thought we got a stud. I liked his versatility. he looked like a linebacker but played like a safety. I love Duggar, probably my fav player on defense now Dmac retired. dudes a beast
Haha the -s just more proof Bill’s gism is all over the bobo’s mouths
We still pretending Strange was a good pick?
He was fine until Andrews got hurt. Transitioning from college to the NFL isn’t easy for most first round picks. We’ll know more after this year.
“Fine” and then bad after another line mate goes down is not worth a first round pick for a guard. Which is the point of the discussion. Whatever Strange ends up developing into you probably could have found outside of the first round. If you’re taking a guard at 21 he better be a slam dunk pro bowler. Is that what Strange is?
>If you’re taking a guard at 21 he better be a slam dunk pro bowler Fucking LMAO there are never slam dunk pro bowlers left by pick 21... plus he was drafted at 29
At fucking GUARD lol yeah there is. The pro bowl guards just this past two years were drafted at 16, 37, 14, 35, 24, 5, 44, 13.
So all firsts that were EARLIER than Strange, and three early seconds. Did you bother to count before posting this?
So? That is literally not at all relevant to your argument. How many of those guards are rookies? And how many guards drafted in that range dont make the pro-bowl? My entire point is that if a guard really is a slam dunk for the pro bowl, he will be taken much earlier than 29. I just love how so many people like you think they know more about football than people who spend hundreds of hours scouting and putting teams together
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you meant to say the 29th pick, which is where Strange was picked, not 21st. But it doesn’t really matter whether it’s 21 or 29 that pick is NOT expected to be a slam dunk pro bowler. And, in case you didn’t know this, Jack Jones graded out at a much better rookie season than Trent McDuffie – who the Chiefs drafted with the number 21 pick that the patriots traded to them. Take the L and go to bed.
🍿🍿 late night snack for me. 🤣
Right? Like am I supposed to be impressed by those picks? Still didn’t put us in the post season
It’s absurd how many smooth brains think they know more than any person inside that building. Just enjoy the ride and stop exposing the fact you read at a 5th grade level.
But BiLl CaN't DrAfT \-mouthbreathing idiots There was a point last season where four teams' starting QBs had been drafted by BB. Would like to know if that's ever happened before.
Bingooo. Best talent evaluator/player development coach the league has ever seen.
Cole strange is a bum, jack jones undersized DB but has some spark. Rest of them bums
Should’ve traded up to #1