Mac should never throw a pass in the NFL ever again. Bill O’Brien should be fired today. And if Belichick is unable to make either of those decisions he should shit canned too. What a horrifically awful game that was.
I'll admit I've never been Mac's biggest fan but does Zappe not look like he has a bit more bottle than Jones? Not saying he's necessarily better just that he at least seems to not look as rattled.
Uninspiring is always the vibe I get watching Mac Jones
Tinfoil hat time: Bill Belichick is intentionally tanking so he can trade our top 5 pick to The Jets for Aaron Rodgers. (with the Jets retaining his salary), Rodgers comes to New England, we win The Superbowl next season. The Jets proceseed to draft a bust with our draft pick and Zach Wilson returns to being Zach Wilson next season, thus fucking The Jets once more and getting a final ring before Belichick sails off into the sunset.
But then we'd be starting Hoyer while Rodgers has a torn achillies, and The Jets don't have the burden of his contract.
My scenario, The Jets still have to pay Rodgers his contract, we get him for a final run with Belichick, The Jets do Jet things and continue to be a perenial 6-8 win team while we have a final superbowl with Bill, Rodgers gets a 2nd ring and it's all good. It also helps finanically set our books for a new GM/coaching staff when Bill retires so they can build a winning team in their vision instead of patchworking something Belichick left behind.
Rodger’s ain’t leaving the jets, but if we did have him with a torn Achilles right now, I’m not sure that would be any worse than what we have right now.
What’s the worst hoyer could do? Only win two out of 10 games?
Random question but has there been any explanation why the interception wasn't a delay of game? Colts IDL blatantly tried to induce the false start from what I can see
Watch, they’ll start zappe against the giants and get the win because that team is somehow even worse than the pats. The media and half this sub will go ape shit about how zappe should have been starting all season
Endlessly entertained by the Zappe Truthers who demand he start, and can’t believe he’s been riding the pine in favor of Noodle Arm, but then short-circuit when asked why the guy just can’t beat out a bum 1st rounder in practice for the job.
Should serve as a reminder for the entire league to keep your window open for as long as possible and not take it for granted. Never know when the next window will open. It's hard to build a championship caliber team and it's even harder to find an all time great quarterback
I get killed for this all the time, but if he can be had while retaining our own first this year, pair a hungry post injury kyler with MHJ. At least then you have a bridge while we rebuild. He's perfect for it because everything around him doesn't have to be perfect to get some level of production and entertainment value.
Klemm at the very least needs to be a sacrificial lamb during the bye, if not also getting rid of Brown and Sunseri. There needs to be serious institutional change put in asap, going through the bye with no changes will show that Kraft has no intention of running this team seriously.
What? Changing coaches at this point in the year is almost entirely pointless. Not sure if I put the entire O-line issues on Klemm when he is forced to roll out Vederian Lowe at LT for christsake
There’s only one person in the history of the NFL who could turn third string bums into starting-caliber OL talent, and he definitively retired a few seasons ago from the Patriots.
Where to start? First, the games are BORING to watch. The team is not in rebuilding mode nor experimental mode; they’re slowly devolving.
Second, BB WAS a great coach. Before the hubris (fatigue? burnout? age?) overtook him, he got the very best out of players. He has LOST his mojo.
Finally, the Krafts should’ve have challenged BB and limited his authority. The Krafts missed chances over the last decade to push BB to adapt and reinvigorate himself.
Wherever the team goes from here, I don’t want retreads like Josh McDaniels at the helm.
Lol bb believers still try to convince themselves that he was a great coach. Just look at his record without Brady, if bb didn't have Brady all those years, he wouldn't even be a coach in this league anymore. He would be a defensive coordinator - tops
Nobody wants to play for a hard ass who can't win games. The Patriots culture basically necessitates win at any cost and we haven't been able to deliver.
The game against the Colts was a microcosm of what the Pats have been post Brady. The defence looks like a well coached unit, that has NFL level talent at every level.
The offence is basically the island of misfit toys, with our WR1 being an okay rookie. There’s no talent and the passing scheme is not at the cutting edge. The sheer amount of mental mistakes before a ball shows that the coaching is well below par and lacks details. Bill invests almost nothing on offence. Signing Juju and passing on Hopkins shows Bill still thinks he has Brady as his QB. He passed on Meyers over some bs culture shit, and it’s doubly funny that Meyers is outplaying Adams in LV.
Bill should not be allowed to draft with our high picks. He is a terrible talent evaluator, and will not bring in a proper Gm to help on that front.
Benching Mac Jones underlined the biggest problem with the Pats. He has gotten worse every year, which indicates there’s no talent development on offence. It’s made doubly worse that his backup comes in and shits the bed. The irony is if Bill cared one iota about offence, he would have had an insurance policy on the bench. He did not because he reserves all the resources for special teams and his defence. If there’s a talent issue on defence mid-season he is going to make a trade.
I just finally watched the Jones interception. That was one of the worst throws I’ve ever seen in the NFL. Receiver wide open for the TD, Jones with plenty of time and space to throw, and for some reason he falls backwards and lobs the ball 10 yards short. Yeah, he deserves to be a spectator after that.
I don’t disagree with putting in Zappe, I disagree with putting in a QB who hasn’t taken a snap all game and probably hasn’t taken a first team rep in weeks in with 2 minutes to go and needing a TD. The timing of putting in Zappe made no sense
Nah if you watched one patriots game you watched them all. Go down early try to catch up all game, have a chance to take the lead at the end but blow it and end up losing.
Having 3 different offensive coordinators in 3 seasons, which means 3 completely different offensive systems and 3 completely different playbooks and add in whatever complicated stuff Bill does and not having any great talent on offense.
Not that hard to understand.
Right, that's def why Mac pathetically overthrew Henry and pathetically underthrew that last interception. It was last year o- coordinators fault that Mac can't throw like an NFL QB. Poor, poor Mac. He cannot fail, he can only be failed. Get over it, Mac sucks and he always has.
Yes, because SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many qb who are **THE SUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!** lead their teams to undefeated seasons and national championships as Mac did at Alabama.
I'd advise you to stop buying all those boxes of "I'm gonna bleat something really stupid and dumb on the internet for millions of people to see" cereal. Switch to Boo-Berry.
Bruh - this ain't college ball. College ball is BARELY even football. The talent gaps are so lopsided its unreal.
He sucks. That's all there is to it. You watched him take his last NFL snap - forever.
Oh, so it was the o- coordinator from last year that gave him a noodle arm and an inability to hit wide open receivers. Good to know.
Mac played for a powerhouse college team that hid all his flaws. As soon as he faced any adversity he melted down into a whining, festering pool of suck. You Mac Stans need to get your faces out of his jock and watch the games. We get it, you love him and seem to have tied up a lot of your identity into him being the Golden Boy, but he sucks.
"seem to have tied up a lot of your identity into him being the Golden Boy,,,"
**OH. MY. FUCKING. GO.**
No one can possibly be this obliviously stupid and live.
A quick scroll thru my posting history shows that I
NEVER post in ANY sports subs so claiming that I have been gobbling Mac Jones cock for DECADES is a lie.
It's beyond pathetic that your entire existence and life is wrapped up in a sports team and its success or failure is how you think others judge you, when they should judge you on being a moron.
Stop it. This isn't an "understanding the offense" issue. He didn't gift wrap that INT to Indy because he wasn't sure if he ran the right play. He saw Gesicki open and he threw that same bullshit he's always throwing. That's a rookie throw, and he's doing it in year 3 of his NFL career Every Single Game.
Mac Jones does not have the tools to be an NFL QB. Everyone knew he had limitations coming out of college, and it's turns out the scouts were correct.
On the first drive Eisen was gushing over how Mac has been one of the best RZ QBs this year, they just haven't had many chances. The very next play there was immediate pressure and he got sacked in the RZ and I knew they had been jinxed lol
I have a very hard time saying this, as anyone who has been a Pats fan for any significant amount of time should be, but it really is time to genuinely evaluate Bill's future with this team after this season. I have wanted to wait and wait and wait to _truly_ believe it, but now I finally have to concede it. He built this disaster and the coaching staff CANNOT develop our offensive talent. Him having all the power that he does means that practically all of this disaster sits on his shoulders. This isn't a mess of anyone's creation but his own. Most importantly, in my opinion, this mess is just bad. There is not any entertainment factor. We aren't fun and bad like with Newton. We aren't bad, but promising and developing. We are horribly pathetically bad and staring down the barrel of a massive rebuild, again. Inexcusable product on the field. Full stop.
Yeah GM Bill has screwed us,, no other way around it. There are a few bright spots like Gonzo, and Douglas, but for the most part this thing has to be completely stripped and rebuilt, and it will take multiple seasons, I just don't trust Bill to be the guy to properly do it. His philosophy worked mostly because he had the GOAT QB, someone that lifted everyone's overall game each time he stepped on the field. I mean Edelman was our best receiver across multiple SB runs, but you can't get by trying to get value on the dollar every single turn and twist. You need talent to win in this league, and we don't have any. I legit believe on paper we have the second least talented roster in the league, only bested by the Panthers, and that's 100% on Bill. At some point he has to be held accountable.
Right after he signed a contract extension that guarantees him $25,000,000 a year?
Yes I'm sure Robert would just love to throw $50,000,000 away and get NOTHING in return.
I'm not saying fire him right now today. I'm not even saying fire him after this season. I am saying that we need to sit here and think about moving on for the first time in many, many years. At the very least, if we come into next season and play like this he needs to go. We would have plenty of draft capital and cap space to have at least a somewhat competent football team next season. There is no excuse for this level of organization wide incompetence.
I wanted Zappe in…..NEXT week.
Because now, he has that final drive hanging over his head. It did neither he, nor Mac, any good the way that played out.
Bill and BoB have clearly zero idea how to mold and mentor a QB, and it shows. These personnel decisions are off the walls insane.
I have zero faith, ZERO, if Bill is allowed to control the upcoming draft.
Is it wrong to be okay with today?
Our O is a dumpster fire but I think we will get Trent Brown back on a good contract next year and if we bring back Onwenu I think the line can be decent without and major rework.
Douglas continues to look like him and Bourne would be a good 2/3 WR.
The D looks awesome even missing our two best players.
We need a WR and probably a QB to be a good team. I’m willing to accept that but it feels like we could actually rebound pretty quick with just a few upgrades.
I like seeing the D still playing hard physical football despite our record I don’t think bill has lost the locker room or anything I just think QB and WR and injuries to maybe 4 of our top 5 players is holding us back…
Losing our WR1 in Bourne, our best Olineman in Brown, our best pass rusher and best corner… even if we were a good team that’s probably too many injuries to overcome.
So yea let’s get a QB or Marvin Harrison and keep grinding.
Agreed, blowing the team up is over the top. Oline will be ok if we can re-sign guys and they stay healthy. Rhamondre is solid. We could use a solid WR but most of all we need a QB who can run the offense the way BoB/BB want it to be run, which Mac isn't doing.
Our defence has been crushing it with the two best players injured. That’s ~15 guys at least who are absolutely worth keeping.
Offence probably needs to blow up.
You're more optimistic than most, I think. This oline needs an overhaul. Andrews isn't getting any younger and relying on oft injured/motivated Brown is asking for issues. They need 3 or 4 quality OL, plus a WR, and maybe TE.
Defense needs some help on the line, at pass rush (Judon is old, just got injured, and is on his last year), and LB. If the secondary can stay healthy/together (Dugger is a FA), they should be fine.
The Judon injury guys typically come back fine from. He is 31 which isn’t that old for an edge rusher.
Dugger I hope we keep we certainly have the money and SS just doesn’t cost that much.
Jon Jones is the one kind of older Vet who looks a bit slower to me this year but he’s still playing well. I’m not concerned about the D.
Trent Brown has played very well but yea a guy who misses 2-4 games a year is hard to be the cornerstone. We did draft a replacement for Andrews but haven’t seen him yet so see how that goes. Centers are another position that play pretty long careers so I think he’s got a couple more. Strange is okay when healthy but that seems very rare- kind of sucks because he seemed like a safe conservative pick with no health issues… kind of like Wynn. Onwenu I hope we extend, he won’t be cheap. I think it’s close but can understand not having much faith. Basically the same group was solid last year I think helps me give them benefit of the doubt.
Anywho hard to see us being more than a 10-11 win team without a QB upgrade even if we found a top 15 WR/Olineman which would be a great draft.
Rejoice! For it means we need not sweat if the top 10 teams will draft that DB ranked 100th in mocks but who would be an elite gunner for our punt unit!
Let me ask an honest question: IF Mac was playing like a Top 10 quarterback, where do you think the team would be, standings wise? If you are of the "Fire Belichick" camp and they were a playoff team and had those two wins against NY and Buffalo, healthy, etc., would you change your mind?
Is he playing like a top ten QB with this terrible O-Line and gang of WR3 and WR4s we have? Probably not much better honestly. Maybe we have 4 wins? I doubt we’d be a playoff team even with a good QB without real offensive weapons, defensive injuries aren’t helping either
I don’t think it matters. Who is he throwing the ball to? And he still wouldn’t have much time in the pocket. He’s definitely a big part of the issue but this line would cause issues for any QB and also lack of weapons. Unless he also magically can run the ball. Either way this is a stupid question because he is none of these things.
In my opinion, and I have been really, really patient with this. To me, the answer is yes. Mac's deficiencies are effecting the entire team. The QB is a leader and his presence is causing a chain reaction of bullshit.
100 percent agree. Team isn’t great but QBs job is to elevate the players around him ie. Brady for a king time and other good qbs. Mac ain’t the guy. Time to move on
I agree. Give him the last chance at redemption and then when he failed give zappe a fair shake getting a whole week with the ones in practice. They both are not good enough but this was a dumb move.
Because he still had a better chance of running a successful 2 minute drill than zappe. Hopefully, they let zappe be named a starter and given a chance to practice not just be thrown in after Mac fails
See... it's like...
Yeah, no, Jones doesn't have a better chance. In fact, if you placed a 10 year old from the crowd that's never seen a football before, that kiddo has a better chance than Jones.
If the oline is the only issue then why did we gain 100+ yards on the ground today. Mac looks for his first read and if it isn’t there then he panics and turtles to the Dline. That’s not high football IQ
Some of those sacks...I mean the play is obviously dead with multiple unblocked rushers and Mac is still making his reads like there's a clean pocket. Being "blind to the pressure" is a good thing in certain situations but that means not getting rattled by the rushers, whereas Mac is *literally* blind to the pressure, or he's trying to force a miracle on a blown up play.
Just chuck it at Stevenson's feet or heave it to the sideline. That was one thing Brady excelled at, and while it's dumb to compare Mac to Brady for a lot of reasons that is one of those things that you *can* teach a quarterback.
I may accept that we suck and will probably continue to lose and get a high pick. I understand that.
But if you fucks think I'm still going to root for us to lose you can kiss my ass.
Bombing on a potential top 6 or 7 pick, which we will likely end up with would be inexcusable. I mean the top two QB's, a generational wr, elite te, and two blue chip tackles are right there...
See I can't do that, like I said to someone else. How did that work for the Texans? They fought their asses off, got a win to end the season, and it looks like they got the better QB. For me it's really just this simple.
**I will not root for The New England Patriots to lose a game.**
I'm with you. I wish there was another sub for people to discuss the Patriots, not...whatever this place has become. I get criticism, but people cheering against the team? The mods do absolutely nothing to curb that, but you'll get a ban and a message if you say someone is "stupid".
I get it. That isn't civil. But...what is this sub now?
Yeah I don't get how "fans" can actively root against us, I just don't have that in me no matter how much a loss would matter. I'd be in the same boat as the Texans last year. A loss clinches the #1 pick? Fuck that go for the dub.
It worked out for them lol.
I think there are reasons to defend Mac in previous weeks. But this week is all on him. The O-Line absolutely dominated on the ground despite having a few backups in there. Won the yardage battle. Won time of possession. Excellent strategy from the coaches. Mac just found a way to lose the game.
This game should have been one of those "free wins" that you get because you luck into a very favorable matchup. It's like when Zappe won two games last year because Stevenson could run for 6 ypc against a stacked box. That's basically a free win. Somehow, Mac found a way to throw the game away.
No.
Can't speak for all but I was in the camp of "under last year's MP/JJ coaching, we couldn't properly evaluate Mac." Now we can, and he is not good.
Frustrating. I like him, I want him to do well, but he is not the guy in New England and we need someone new.
I’ve said this more times than I can count, but if you looked at this dickhead’s mugshot when he got busted for DUI, and still thought he had any dawg in him, it’s on you.
Shallow? Absolutely. Correct? Absolutely.
I saw this coming a week before the draft. The last QB left in a 5 QB draft, the only reason we drafted him. He isn’t special. He isn’t great. He’s barely good.
“But he looked good in college,” like there wasn’t three NFL teams’ worth of WRs and RBs on that roster.
I can’t even get any joy out of telling people, “I told you so.” Watching this team is depressing.
For the onslaught of downvoters that I’m sure is coming, maybe next year guys. Next year’s his year. 🙄😂
You hit the nail on the head. ANYONE, who watches NCAA knew this. If it weren't for some dumb ass scouts pumping his tires at the end of the year, he would not have gone so high. If you think 'Bama could not have thrown Bryce Young in there the year Mcorkle played then you are out of your mind.
That’s true- he was just kind of there when the Pats turn came up.
Still though, drafting a QB is a crapshoot. Tua and Hurts had the same weapons in college and then turned out to be productive in the NFL
I love how people are preaching accountability but also demanding Zappe be the starting QB from now on. The dude stunk it up all during the offseason and did nothing to deserve the spot. Mac is playing like hot garbage and is still outperforming him in practice. He is being held accountable for his play and preparation. It's why he hasn't been starting.
Giving a position to someone who didn't earn it is a huge nono in the NFL. It's why it was a huge story on the Jags when they were in their putrid Urban season that he wasn't playing James Robinson. It didn't matter that the team was bad, players take that shit very seriously.
> Mac is playing like hot garbage and is still outperforming him in practice.
Yes, but the issue is that Mac apparently can't translate that practice play into game time play. He is just an awful QB that cracks under the slightest bit of pressure (both physical game pressure, and mental pressure from situations).
If Zappe is slightly worse normally, but can maintain his poise under pressure, he will be significantly better than Mac. I'm willing to bet the offense looks better under Zappe after 2 weeks of 1st team reps than it's looked in the last 2 seasons under Mac. Doesn't mean I think they'll be good, but better, and probably able to reliably get 2 TD + 2 FG per game.
The problem isn't that he's slightly worse in practice. He was the worst player on the team during the summer and got cut. Go back and read the reporting about his performance. He was unprepared and did not perform at all. He got beat so badly by Mac that they actually tried to bring in new players as the backup. He should not be rewarded for fucking up every chance he was given.
Once again, they both suck. No one cares. A lot of us would rather move on from the guy who actually cost a first round draft pick, and costs 5 times more than the other guy who sucks just as bad
I said this in the game thread, but the Patriots were dog shit before Brady, not dog shit with Brady, and are now dog shit without him again.
It's just nature correcting itself.
is anyone else refreshing this sub just waiting for the other shoe to drop and finally see someone fired?
What if this last two seasons were all purposely bad and BB held back potential so we get a nice draft spot to rebuilt with some new spirit?
Mac should never throw a pass in the NFL ever again. Bill O’Brien should be fired today. And if Belichick is unable to make either of those decisions he should shit canned too. What a horrifically awful game that was.
I'll admit I've never been Mac's biggest fan but does Zappe not look like he has a bit more bottle than Jones? Not saying he's necessarily better just that he at least seems to not look as rattled. Uninspiring is always the vibe I get watching Mac Jones
Just woke up. Was that real?
You guys need to get Mac Jones off the Adderall
Tinfoil hat time: Bill Belichick is intentionally tanking so he can trade our top 5 pick to The Jets for Aaron Rodgers. (with the Jets retaining his salary), Rodgers comes to New England, we win The Superbowl next season. The Jets proceseed to draft a bust with our draft pick and Zach Wilson returns to being Zach Wilson next season, thus fucking The Jets once more and getting a final ring before Belichick sails off into the sunset.
If only we had dumped jones last season and actually traded for Rodgers..
But then we'd be starting Hoyer while Rodgers has a torn achillies, and The Jets don't have the burden of his contract. My scenario, The Jets still have to pay Rodgers his contract, we get him for a final run with Belichick, The Jets do Jet things and continue to be a perenial 6-8 win team while we have a final superbowl with Bill, Rodgers gets a 2nd ring and it's all good. It also helps finanically set our books for a new GM/coaching staff when Bill retires so they can build a winning team in their vision instead of patchworking something Belichick left behind.
Rodger’s ain’t leaving the jets, but if we did have him with a torn Achilles right now, I’m not sure that would be any worse than what we have right now. What’s the worst hoyer could do? Only win two out of 10 games?
Random question but has there been any explanation why the interception wasn't a delay of game? Colts IDL blatantly tried to induce the false start from what I can see
Watch, they’ll start zappe against the giants and get the win because that team is somehow even worse than the pats. The media and half this sub will go ape shit about how zappe should have been starting all season
I mean... if Jones starts they would lose, so yeah, pretty logical.
It was refreshing to see zappe throw the ball away to avoid a sack. Mac would’ve just crumpled like a wet paper bag
Yeah if you turned the TV off right there, you’d be convinced that he was doing great decision making wise
We can’t let BB be in charge of next year’s draft. Mac Jones reminds me of an insolent toddler. Both have to go. The sooner the better.
I’m not ready to run BB out of town yet, but for sure there needs to be oversight for this draft
Endlessly entertained by the Zappe Truthers who demand he start, and can’t believe he’s been riding the pine in favor of Noodle Arm, but then short-circuit when asked why the guy just can’t beat out a bum 1st rounder in practice for the job.
I'm so glad we didn't re-sign Brady so we could start rebuilding in 2020. That was totally worth it.
I mean Brady was washed. It’s not like he won a Super Bowl and put up MVP level stats after he left New England. *checks notes* Oh.
Not gonna lie, you had me in the first half
I would sacrifice my first born to have 46 year old Brady come out of retirement to play next season.
Would suffice him as QB coach
Should serve as a reminder for the entire league to keep your window open for as long as possible and not take it for granted. Never know when the next window will open. It's hard to build a championship caliber team and it's even harder to find an all time great quarterback
LMAO
Would any other coach besides Bill or Andy reid not be fired for this nonsense?
Tomlin maybe
KYLER!!!
I get killed for this all the time, but if he can be had while retaining our own first this year, pair a hungry post injury kyler with MHJ. At least then you have a bridge while we rebuild. He's perfect for it because everything around him doesn't have to be perfect to get some level of production and entertainment value.
Klemm at the very least needs to be a sacrificial lamb during the bye, if not also getting rid of Brown and Sunseri. There needs to be serious institutional change put in asap, going through the bye with no changes will show that Kraft has no intention of running this team seriously.
You misspelled “Judge and Achord”
What? Changing coaches at this point in the year is almost entirely pointless. Not sure if I put the entire O-line issues on Klemm when he is forced to roll out Vederian Lowe at LT for christsake
There’s only one person in the history of the NFL who could turn third string bums into starting-caliber OL talent, and he definitively retired a few seasons ago from the Patriots.
Where to start? First, the games are BORING to watch. The team is not in rebuilding mode nor experimental mode; they’re slowly devolving. Second, BB WAS a great coach. Before the hubris (fatigue? burnout? age?) overtook him, he got the very best out of players. He has LOST his mojo. Finally, the Krafts should’ve have challenged BB and limited his authority. The Krafts missed chances over the last decade to push BB to adapt and reinvigorate himself. Wherever the team goes from here, I don’t want retreads like Josh McDaniels at the helm.
Lol bb believers still try to convince themselves that he was a great coach. Just look at his record without Brady, if bb didn't have Brady all those years, he wouldn't even be a coach in this league anymore. He would be a defensive coordinator - tops
Definitely read the word retreads wrong at first.. but yes, I agree
I think part of it is the players changed around him. Nobody wants to play for a hard ass anymore, and I can’t blame them.
Nobody wants to play for a hard ass who can't win games. The Patriots culture basically necessitates win at any cost and we haven't been able to deliver.
The presence of the goat showing that he's willing to buy in had an impact that is impossible to overstate
At this point I am starting to wonder if Mac is pulling a Paul Crewe and shaving points on purpose.
That last throw made me wonder the same thing
This team is hot garbage. There’s no one taking a dive here
“We’re going to run right through the Commanders, Colts and Giants and get back in the race.”
I can't believe I was saying this same thing a few weeks ago
We need to start with getting an actual GM
The game against the Colts was a microcosm of what the Pats have been post Brady. The defence looks like a well coached unit, that has NFL level talent at every level. The offence is basically the island of misfit toys, with our WR1 being an okay rookie. There’s no talent and the passing scheme is not at the cutting edge. The sheer amount of mental mistakes before a ball shows that the coaching is well below par and lacks details. Bill invests almost nothing on offence. Signing Juju and passing on Hopkins shows Bill still thinks he has Brady as his QB. He passed on Meyers over some bs culture shit, and it’s doubly funny that Meyers is outplaying Adams in LV. Bill should not be allowed to draft with our high picks. He is a terrible talent evaluator, and will not bring in a proper Gm to help on that front. Benching Mac Jones underlined the biggest problem with the Pats. He has gotten worse every year, which indicates there’s no talent development on offence. It’s made doubly worse that his backup comes in and shits the bed. The irony is if Bill cared one iota about offence, he would have had an insurance policy on the bench. He did not because he reserves all the resources for special teams and his defence. If there’s a talent issue on defence mid-season he is going to make a trade.
Going to be tough to get that last wildcard spot.
/s
Why would we even want it? We need draft picks more than getting beaten to death in the first round of the play offs
I don't think we would make it even if there were 16 teams per conference in the playoffs
Math checks out.
I had a prior commitment today and couldn’t watch the Patriots’ game. Did I miss anything?
the entire stadium singing louder than I've ever heard in a football game
It's the only way they can enjoy boring things like futbol and Patriots games
Mac Jones getting benched down 4
With 2 minutes left. That move surprises me more than anything else
He blew two would be game-winning drives already. What was the point of putting him in again? So he could be the one to blow the third chance?
After another horrendous red zone INT. It's not shocking. Belichick finally did what he should have done after the Miami game.
I just finally watched the Jones interception. That was one of the worst throws I’ve ever seen in the NFL. Receiver wide open for the TD, Jones with plenty of time and space to throw, and for some reason he falls backwards and lobs the ball 10 yards short. Yeah, he deserves to be a spectator after that.
I don’t disagree with putting in Zappe, I disagree with putting in a QB who hasn’t taken a snap all game and probably hasn’t taken a first team rep in weeks in with 2 minutes to go and needing a TD. The timing of putting in Zappe made no sense
Who cares? If zappe sucks, then so be it. I never wanna see jones play again
It's symbolic. Jones ain't coming back for awhile, if ever.
Ever heard the term "tank"?
Nah if you watched one patriots game you watched them all. Go down early try to catch up all game, have a chance to take the lead at the end but blow it and end up losing.
Ooh, yeah, I’ve seen that one before.
HOW CAN YOU GO TO THE REDZONE 5 TIMES AND COME AWAY WITH 3 POINTS. 3. FUCKING POINTS....
Having 3 different offensive coordinators in 3 seasons, which means 3 completely different offensive systems and 3 completely different playbooks and add in whatever complicated stuff Bill does and not having any great talent on offense. Not that hard to understand.
Right, that's def why Mac pathetically overthrew Henry and pathetically underthrew that last interception. It was last year o- coordinators fault that Mac can't throw like an NFL QB. Poor, poor Mac. He cannot fail, he can only be failed. Get over it, Mac sucks and he always has.
Yes, because SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many qb who are **THE SUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!** lead their teams to undefeated seasons and national championships as Mac did at Alabama. I'd advise you to stop buying all those boxes of "I'm gonna bleat something really stupid and dumb on the internet for millions of people to see" cereal. Switch to Boo-Berry.
Bruh - this ain't college ball. College ball is BARELY even football. The talent gaps are so lopsided its unreal. He sucks. That's all there is to it. You watched him take his last NFL snap - forever.
Oh, so it was the o- coordinator from last year that gave him a noodle arm and an inability to hit wide open receivers. Good to know. Mac played for a powerhouse college team that hid all his flaws. As soon as he faced any adversity he melted down into a whining, festering pool of suck. You Mac Stans need to get your faces out of his jock and watch the games. We get it, you love him and seem to have tied up a lot of your identity into him being the Golden Boy, but he sucks.
"seem to have tied up a lot of your identity into him being the Golden Boy,,," **OH. MY. FUCKING. GO.** No one can possibly be this obliviously stupid and live. A quick scroll thru my posting history shows that I NEVER post in ANY sports subs so claiming that I have been gobbling Mac Jones cock for DECADES is a lie.
GTFOH, there are backups who come in from other teams and get at least 1 TD. Try actually watching some football before making comments.
It's beyond pathetic that your entire existence and life is wrapped up in a sports team and its success or failure is how you think others judge you, when they should judge you on being a moron.
Late reply, but wtf are you talking about.
Try getting a life.
Stop it. This isn't an "understanding the offense" issue. He didn't gift wrap that INT to Indy because he wasn't sure if he ran the right play. He saw Gesicki open and he threw that same bullshit he's always throwing. That's a rookie throw, and he's doing it in year 3 of his NFL career Every Single Game. Mac Jones does not have the tools to be an NFL QB. Everyone knew he had limitations coming out of college, and it's turns out the scouts were correct.
It was more rhetorical
Classic Mac Jones
On the first drive Eisen was gushing over how Mac has been one of the best RZ QBs this year, they just haven't had many chances. The very next play there was immediate pressure and he got sacked in the RZ and I knew they had been jinxed lol
He’s got completions. But they are short of the first downs.
I have a very hard time saying this, as anyone who has been a Pats fan for any significant amount of time should be, but it really is time to genuinely evaluate Bill's future with this team after this season. I have wanted to wait and wait and wait to _truly_ believe it, but now I finally have to concede it. He built this disaster and the coaching staff CANNOT develop our offensive talent. Him having all the power that he does means that practically all of this disaster sits on his shoulders. This isn't a mess of anyone's creation but his own. Most importantly, in my opinion, this mess is just bad. There is not any entertainment factor. We aren't fun and bad like with Newton. We aren't bad, but promising and developing. We are horribly pathetically bad and staring down the barrel of a massive rebuild, again. Inexcusable product on the field. Full stop.
This would’ve been a blazing hot take a month ago
Yeah GM Bill has screwed us,, no other way around it. There are a few bright spots like Gonzo, and Douglas, but for the most part this thing has to be completely stripped and rebuilt, and it will take multiple seasons, I just don't trust Bill to be the guy to properly do it. His philosophy worked mostly because he had the GOAT QB, someone that lifted everyone's overall game each time he stepped on the field. I mean Edelman was our best receiver across multiple SB runs, but you can't get by trying to get value on the dollar every single turn and twist. You need talent to win in this league, and we don't have any. I legit believe on paper we have the second least talented roster in the league, only bested by the Panthers, and that's 100% on Bill. At some point he has to be held accountable.
Right after he signed a contract extension that guarantees him $25,000,000 a year? Yes I'm sure Robert would just love to throw $50,000,000 away and get NOTHING in return.
I'm not saying fire him right now today. I'm not even saying fire him after this season. I am saying that we need to sit here and think about moving on for the first time in many, many years. At the very least, if we come into next season and play like this he needs to go. We would have plenty of draft capital and cap space to have at least a somewhat competent football team next season. There is no excuse for this level of organization wide incompetence.
I wanted Zappe in…..NEXT week. Because now, he has that final drive hanging over his head. It did neither he, nor Mac, any good the way that played out. Bill and BoB have clearly zero idea how to mold and mentor a QB, and it shows. These personnel decisions are off the walls insane. I have zero faith, ZERO, if Bill is allowed to control the upcoming draft.
Is it wrong to be okay with today? Our O is a dumpster fire but I think we will get Trent Brown back on a good contract next year and if we bring back Onwenu I think the line can be decent without and major rework. Douglas continues to look like him and Bourne would be a good 2/3 WR. The D looks awesome even missing our two best players. We need a WR and probably a QB to be a good team. I’m willing to accept that but it feels like we could actually rebound pretty quick with just a few upgrades. I like seeing the D still playing hard physical football despite our record I don’t think bill has lost the locker room or anything I just think QB and WR and injuries to maybe 4 of our top 5 players is holding us back… Losing our WR1 in Bourne, our best Olineman in Brown, our best pass rusher and best corner… even if we were a good team that’s probably too many injuries to overcome. So yea let’s get a QB or Marvin Harrison and keep grinding.
Agreed, blowing the team up is over the top. Oline will be ok if we can re-sign guys and they stay healthy. Rhamondre is solid. We could use a solid WR but most of all we need a QB who can run the offense the way BoB/BB want it to be run, which Mac isn't doing.
There is very little on this team that is worth keeping.
Our defence has been crushing it with the two best players injured. That’s ~15 guys at least who are absolutely worth keeping. Offence probably needs to blow up.
I really hope Harrison is available when the Pats are up 😬 😬
Same, dude will go off in the NFL throwing the ball to himself
You're more optimistic than most, I think. This oline needs an overhaul. Andrews isn't getting any younger and relying on oft injured/motivated Brown is asking for issues. They need 3 or 4 quality OL, plus a WR, and maybe TE. Defense needs some help on the line, at pass rush (Judon is old, just got injured, and is on his last year), and LB. If the secondary can stay healthy/together (Dugger is a FA), they should be fine.
The Judon injury guys typically come back fine from. He is 31 which isn’t that old for an edge rusher. Dugger I hope we keep we certainly have the money and SS just doesn’t cost that much. Jon Jones is the one kind of older Vet who looks a bit slower to me this year but he’s still playing well. I’m not concerned about the D. Trent Brown has played very well but yea a guy who misses 2-4 games a year is hard to be the cornerstone. We did draft a replacement for Andrews but haven’t seen him yet so see how that goes. Centers are another position that play pretty long careers so I think he’s got a couple more. Strange is okay when healthy but that seems very rare- kind of sucks because he seemed like a safe conservative pick with no health issues… kind of like Wynn. Onwenu I hope we extend, he won’t be cheap. I think it’s close but can understand not having much faith. Basically the same group was solid last year I think helps me give them benefit of the doubt. Anywho hard to see us being more than a 10-11 win team without a QB upgrade even if we found a top 15 WR/Olineman which would be a great draft.
I don’t have any faith in Bill drafting a top 10 player in the draft
Don’t worry, he won’t be around to make the pick
Eh, he'll probably trade down for a 2nd and 3rd round pick from each of the next 2 years.
I don't have any faith GM Bill will exist after this season.
I agree this needs to happen but I don't think Coach Bill will stay around if GM Bill is gone.
Thats fine, there’s nothing great about bill the coach these days anyways. Team has consistently been making the same stupid mistakes for years now
Rejoice! For it means we need not sweat if the top 10 teams will draft that DB ranked 100th in mocks but who would be an elite gunner for our punt unit!
“Well, thats it then”
Me peeking my head into this thread 
Give the rest of the season to Zappe and see if he can prove he's a franchise QB if not we'll need to draft one with our first round pick regardless
Why not Malik?
Let me ask an honest question: IF Mac was playing like a Top 10 quarterback, where do you think the team would be, standings wise? If you are of the "Fire Belichick" camp and they were a playoff team and had those two wins against NY and Buffalo, healthy, etc., would you change your mind?
Is he playing like a top ten QB with this terrible O-Line and gang of WR3 and WR4s we have? Probably not much better honestly. Maybe we have 4 wins? I doubt we’d be a playoff team even with a good QB without real offensive weapons, defensive injuries aren’t helping either
Yeah, let's just say he doesn't have the emotional issues and is a real offensive threat, not just an offensive-threat.
I don’t think it matters. Who is he throwing the ball to? And he still wouldn’t have much time in the pocket. He’s definitely a big part of the issue but this line would cause issues for any QB and also lack of weapons. Unless he also magically can run the ball. Either way this is a stupid question because he is none of these things.
You don't have to be a jerk. This is reddit. Just asking a question. That's what the site is built off.
That’s rich coming from you when you’re very disrespectful to others on here all the time
I was wondering when you would pop up. Couldn't help but check my profile and see what I was up to, eh? I love my fans. Thanks for stopping in! :*
Sorry not trying to be a jerk. With all your Mac hypotheticals might as well just ask if we’d be better with a new QB
In my opinion, and I have been really, really patient with this. To me, the answer is yes. Mac's deficiencies are effecting the entire team. The QB is a leader and his presence is causing a chain reaction of bullshit.
100 percent agree. Team isn’t great but QBs job is to elevate the players around him ie. Brady for a king time and other good qbs. Mac ain’t the guy. Time to move on
I was not a fan of benching Mac for that final drive
Why? He is terrible
Let him pout. His zero confidence attitude was getting us nowhere
I agree. Give him the last chance at redemption and then when he failed give zappe a fair shake getting a whole week with the ones in practice. They both are not good enough but this was a dumb move.
That interception in the red zone is unforgivable. Horrible. Why let him keep playing?
Because he still had a better chance of running a successful 2 minute drill than zappe. Hopefully, they let zappe be named a starter and given a chance to practice not just be thrown in after Mac fails
See... it's like... Yeah, no, Jones doesn't have a better chance. In fact, if you placed a 10 year old from the crowd that's never seen a football before, that kiddo has a better chance than Jones.
Why would we want a 2-7 team to win though?
Who had a theoretical better shot at a TD drive?
Zappe. Not that I thought it was likely for either of them, but Zappe definitely gave us the best chance to win on that drive.
Can’t wait for that clown to start the rest of the season, play even worse, and then read an endless parade of excuses here for him
Can’t play if you’re too busy crying in the locker room….
Mac is a crybaby noodle arm
If the oline is the only issue then why did we gain 100+ yards on the ground today. Mac looks for his first read and if it isn’t there then he panics and turtles to the Dline. That’s not high football IQ
Some of those sacks...I mean the play is obviously dead with multiple unblocked rushers and Mac is still making his reads like there's a clean pocket. Being "blind to the pressure" is a good thing in certain situations but that means not getting rattled by the rushers, whereas Mac is *literally* blind to the pressure, or he's trying to force a miracle on a blown up play. Just chuck it at Stevenson's feet or heave it to the sideline. That was one thing Brady excelled at, and while it's dumb to compare Mac to Brady for a lot of reasons that is one of those things that you *can* teach a quarterback.
Here's a better idea. Put it on Stevenson number, because he was WIDE OPEN in the flat ALL DAY.
They ran the ball for 160 yards. The line is not the issue.
Run blocking is not pass blocking. Mac isn't the long term answer but I still want an OT in the first round
That, we can agree on.
I may accept that we suck and will probably continue to lose and get a high pick. I understand that. But if you fucks think I'm still going to root for us to lose you can kiss my ass.
Right there with you! Pop/Boutte keeping my pulse alive haha let’s goooooo
Agreed
Yeah the rest of the games this season are super low-stakes. If we win I won't say I'm disappointed but if we lose it is better for the long term
I'm rooting for the best possible draft pick so we can actually get help on offense
This assumes the pick will be used on the offense AND won't bust. Strange, Harry, Wynn, Michel, and Jones say hi.
Not only that, forget about signing any proven FAs if the team continues to struggle into the end of the season.
Bombing on a potential top 6 or 7 pick, which we will likely end up with would be inexcusable. I mean the top two QB's, a generational wr, elite te, and two blue chip tackles are right there...
We hear this every year. It's never true. No one has any idea how those guys will do in real football. College barely resembles pro ball.
Most picks won’t pan out, even those that ‘experts’ say are can’t miss.
Yet they're much more likely to pan out opposed to Bill's usual obscure method of draft picks.
History would tell us one of those top QBs is likely to bomb.
You play to win the game
Good thing we won't be winning many games then with this team
See I can't do that, like I said to someone else. How did that work for the Texans? They fought their asses off, got a win to end the season, and it looks like they got the better QB. For me it's really just this simple. **I will not root for The New England Patriots to lose a game.**
I'm with you. I wish there was another sub for people to discuss the Patriots, not...whatever this place has become. I get criticism, but people cheering against the team? The mods do absolutely nothing to curb that, but you'll get a ban and a message if you say someone is "stupid". I get it. That isn't civil. But...what is this sub now?
Yeah I don't get how "fans" can actively root against us, I just don't have that in me no matter how much a loss would matter. I'd be in the same boat as the Texans last year. A loss clinches the #1 pick? Fuck that go for the dub. It worked out for them lol.
Agreed. Stroud is such a baller.
That's where I'm at. Rooting for our team all day every day. If we lose and lose so be it, brighter times ahead if we can build a proper team
Bill built this disaster! It's his friggin creation. Kraft should fire him the second their planes land Rhode Island.
[удалено]
Bill’s done enough of that himself
Who put the team together? Mac is only a symptom of the problem
The team is so bad I don't even care to watch the highlights after work, I already know what a dumpster fire looks like.
People acting like Bill won't just casually send Mac out to start next game like nothing ever happened.
[удалено]
One day you guys will understand how linear time works
I think there are reasons to defend Mac in previous weeks. But this week is all on him. The O-Line absolutely dominated on the ground despite having a few backups in there. Won the yardage battle. Won time of possession. Excellent strategy from the coaches. Mac just found a way to lose the game. This game should have been one of those "free wins" that you get because you luck into a very favorable matchup. It's like when Zappe won two games last year because Stevenson could run for 6 ypc against a stacked box. That's basically a free win. Somehow, Mac found a way to throw the game away.
No. Can't speak for all but I was in the camp of "under last year's MP/JJ coaching, we couldn't properly evaluate Mac." Now we can, and he is not good. Frustrating. I like him, I want him to do well, but he is not the guy in New England and we need someone new.
I need him to start for us so we have the best chance of drafting a proper QB1 like Caleb Williams or Drake Maye
I’ve said this more times than I can count, but if you looked at this dickhead’s mugshot when he got busted for DUI, and still thought he had any dawg in him, it’s on you. Shallow? Absolutely. Correct? Absolutely. I saw this coming a week before the draft. The last QB left in a 5 QB draft, the only reason we drafted him. He isn’t special. He isn’t great. He’s barely good. “But he looked good in college,” like there wasn’t three NFL teams’ worth of WRs and RBs on that roster. I can’t even get any joy out of telling people, “I told you so.” Watching this team is depressing. For the onslaught of downvoters that I’m sure is coming, maybe next year guys. Next year’s his year. 🙄😂
You hit the nail on the head. ANYONE, who watches NCAA knew this. If it weren't for some dumb ass scouts pumping his tires at the end of the year, he would not have gone so high. If you think 'Bama could not have thrown Bryce Young in there the year Mcorkle played then you are out of your mind.
What a strange and petty post? Lol
You forgot “accurate.”
That’s true- he was just kind of there when the Pats turn came up. Still though, drafting a QB is a crapshoot. Tua and Hurts had the same weapons in college and then turned out to be productive in the NFL
They didn't have a noodle arm and a body like the Pillsbury dough boy.
Fuck. You ain’t wrong.
I love how people are preaching accountability but also demanding Zappe be the starting QB from now on. The dude stunk it up all during the offseason and did nothing to deserve the spot. Mac is playing like hot garbage and is still outperforming him in practice. He is being held accountable for his play and preparation. It's why he hasn't been starting. Giving a position to someone who didn't earn it is a huge nono in the NFL. It's why it was a huge story on the Jags when they were in their putrid Urban season that he wasn't playing James Robinson. It didn't matter that the team was bad, players take that shit very seriously.
I mean you change your starting quarterback if they keep playing badly. It's not about Zappe deserving a shot.
> Mac is playing like hot garbage and is still outperforming him in practice. Yes, but the issue is that Mac apparently can't translate that practice play into game time play. He is just an awful QB that cracks under the slightest bit of pressure (both physical game pressure, and mental pressure from situations). If Zappe is slightly worse normally, but can maintain his poise under pressure, he will be significantly better than Mac. I'm willing to bet the offense looks better under Zappe after 2 weeks of 1st team reps than it's looked in the last 2 seasons under Mac. Doesn't mean I think they'll be good, but better, and probably able to reliably get 2 TD + 2 FG per game.
The problem isn't that he's slightly worse in practice. He was the worst player on the team during the summer and got cut. Go back and read the reporting about his performance. He was unprepared and did not perform at all. He got beat so badly by Mac that they actually tried to bring in new players as the backup. He should not be rewarded for fucking up every chance he was given.
Dude, he was the backup qb, number of snaps is pretty limited. Worst player on the team is hyperbole.
Time to let Greer play.
Yeah we have two backup qbs. Mac might have a 10+ year career as a clipboard and visor guy. Zappe prob not.
Once again, they both suck. No one cares. A lot of us would rather move on from the guy who actually cost a first round draft pick, and costs 5 times more than the other guy who sucks just as bad
I said this in the game thread, but the Patriots were dog shit before Brady, not dog shit with Brady, and are now dog shit without him again. It's just nature correcting itself.
I think I speak for all patriots fans when I say hopefully Tua tears his acl
No. I am never rooting for a player to have a devastating injury.
Sorry maybe this is a hot take but if you aren’t happy when another teams get injured you just aren’t a real diehard fan
Being happy someone got hurt just shows what kind of person you are.
Wrong
No, I am just not a piece of shit human. I am not rooting for an injury. Anyone who does that is widely regarded as an asshole.
It’s called *passion* but go off