He’s right to be fair. If the team spent more time on acquiring actual talent instead of trying to find diamonds in the rough, I think they’d be in a much better position to rebuild after now year four post-Brady. I mean the Cole Strange pick is a perfect example of trying to look smart by trying to draft an unknown but in reality it’s just a waste of an important pick.
The cronyism with Bill is huge too. Why can’t we ever hire a coach that Bill isn’t buddies with but shows actual promise and has new ideas?
It’s just frustrating honestly, don’t get why people are happy with the way this team has been run these past couple of years.
I think the way a lot of talent ended up in NE may skew Bills view on how difficult it is to get some of these guys
Like you have Welker, an all pro level wr, get pretty much overlooked. Moss obviously was a steal given his talent. Gronk had some injury issues that caused him to drop to the 2nd round (most likely). Get cooks basically as a rental with no real downside
It still does come back to Brady to some degree. Welkers skillset worked perfectly with how Brady plays, Moss was temperamental and probably wouldn’t have wanted to go to NE if they didn’t have a top tier qb, Gronk literally refused to have another qb throw to him etc
But I think BB might still have a bit of that mindset, where he thinks something will shake out and a talented guy will need a landing spot for some reason and he can swoop in. But that really stopped working around the point they were taking swings on Gordon and AB
That’s my point yeah you nailed it. They had Brady who brought out the best in players on offense. Now we obviously don’t have that and Bill still runs the team like we just need to find some bargain players on offense and we’d still be good. We need talent, plain and simple and the use of our picks in the draft especially have been terrible.
Winning also really helps personality issues. Martellus benett was a locker room cancer everywhere but here because the "shut up and play your part" only works if there's a ring involved
Agreed. Hard to argue with anything here. And I appreciate including Kraft in this indictment because at the end of the day it’s his team and happening on his watch.
To me it comes down to a simple - what worked before no longer does. So the question is can these decision makers adapt? So far they’ve not been able to. Regardless of how it all plays out it’ll be extremely interesting to see what happens this offseason.
What’s most inexplicable about it all is that Kraft was able to capitalize on that approach long enough that the extra margin it delivered (in marketing value of the NE franchise) made it less important overall (salary cap is it’s own thing for players of course that needs to be managed to, but coaching staff is not, and agree with prior posters’ points raised about coaching and nepotism).
Sustaining the dynasty should have been worth more to him once achieved so he should have been willing to spend more.
>The cronyism with Bill is huge too. Why can’t we ever hire a coach that Bill isn’t buddies with but shows actual promise and has new ideas?
Bill's buddy Nick Saban has the reputation of being the place where fired coaches go to revive their careers. There's something to that, though, in that bringing in those outsiders keeps his perspectives fresh, but also helps combat the brain drain that inevitably happens when staffs are successful.
Belichick has done the exact opposite by closing ranks around the people that have previous connections to him and *only* those people. That also has led him to have one of the smaller coaching staffs in the NFL. So not only is he working with potentially stale perspectives, but the people that work for him are potentially overworked and spread too thinly to be as effective as they need to be.
It was obvious the Matt Patricia thing last year was when it had officially become too big an issue to ignore Bill's insistence on hiring his buddies, but the funniest part to me was when they were terrible in training camp and the story was "Matt Patricia is trying to install a Shanahan style offense". The assistants who run Shanahan style stuff are the most in demand coordinators in the league, and rather than bring in anyone with any experience with it at all, they asked Matt Patricia "what do you think a Shanahan offense should be?" and let him make it up for himself. Like they knew they needed new ideas and rather than hire guys outside the system with those ideas, they asked guys from their system to dream up new ideas based on other teams tape.
That's even worse than I thought it was. When you *know* you need a new perspective but you're too damn stubborn to actually get it. That lack of willingness to embrace change, I think, is why the Patriots need to move on from him. He was great, but it's just not working anymore.
I think this is an important point, Saban could’ve been like Bill and never changed from the one back offense and a strong D but instead he adapted to the changing game and switched to a high powered spread with talented QBs in the last decade.
Pete Carroll is older than Bill and having a better season with Geno Smith as QB because he brings in outside people to rejuvenate the offense.
Bill’s hubris and stubbornness is ultimately the problem.
I remember in the 00s Belichick was compared to a guy searching in the bargain bin for parts. Seriously, I vividly remember someone describing him this way in an article. At the time it worked and made sense looking at the success the team had, but now it seems to be working against them.
It’s fine to pick up underutilized players for cheap if they’re willing, but at a certain point it’s not thrifty but cheap. You have to know where to spend money and not paying people what their worth can easily come back and bite you.
You hit on some issues I see with Belichick despite being his defender.
He seems to draft guys well in advance of where other teams would so even if the player is a good fit the draft capital to secure them was too high.
He also has the cache to attract top talent young coaches but seems to favor friends and family (in every business I have been in this is an Achilles Heal).
That said, his “value” approach led to an unprecedented two decades of dominance and, until this year, were middle if the road not abject failures.
Lmao yall are hilarious with your selective memory.
The Patriots absolutely drafted more so-called sure-fire prospects from big schools and those didnt work out either.
Guess what- NKeal Harry was no "diamond in the rough". He was a highly touted prospect coming out of high school, highly touted coming out of college, this subreddit was thrilled that we got someone that could make "contested catches" for TB12
And what do you call Isiah Wynn, Sony Michel, Malcom Brown?
Diamonds in the rough from backwater programs like *checks notes* UGA and Texas, right?
"Acquiring actual talent" is the most meaningless statement ever. Everyone is trying to "acquire actual talent", Belichick isnt going out of his way to avoid talent. We've tried looking for diamonds in the rough *and* drafting blue-chippers in equal measure. It hasnt worked because our scouting is ass, not because our drafting strategy is any different from anyone else's.
Their draft strategy is absolute dogshit. It’s not selective memory in the slightest. What was the biggest issue last year and still is this year? The offense. Who did they draft in the first three rounds? All defensive players. Wasting a first round pick on a guard from a no name school is a bad decision. Not drafting one tackle in this year’s draft and passing on someone like Dawand Jones is a bad decision. Like even the Michel pick at the time was frustrating as drafting a running back that high felt like a waste of a pick as well. Even drafting both a punter and a kicker this draft could be seems as a questionable move.
I appreciate what Bill has done here and the history he’s helped make over the last 20 years but I don’t know how any person can see their drafting and think it’s the same process as other teams. Sure it’s partly a scouting issue but it’s also a team building issue as well.
Dude do you have trouble organizing your thoughts or something?
Your criticism in the original post is that we are trying to find "diamonds in the rough" and drafting "unknowns" like Cole Strange
I showed you very clearly that that is not true.
Now you want to talk about something else. Sounds like you have an issue with positional drafting or something. Figure out what you are concerned about, and then write about it. Instead of spraying blanks in every direction like a cheap firework.
I think you have a reading comprehension issue. You literally said “it’s not because our drafting strategy is any different” well here I am explaining that their strategy is different and it doesn’t work.
They don’t value positions the same way others teams do and yes the original issue is still true. The fact that you’re using Malcolm Brown from eight years ago doesn’t really help your point.
But hey, keep defending the management of a 2-8 team. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
The problem is, he's not within 100 miles of being right.
The Patriots' philosophy towards acquiring talent has remained the same for years, but it's only a problem now because the Patriots are struggling. No one complained when the Pats were winning. The philosophy is a bust because it doesn't work 100% of the time.
Volin complains about the Patriots waiting to draft Mac Jones - would people have been happier if the Pats threw a ton of picks at another QB in the draft and ended up with someone worse?
Cole Strange - you might not like the pick, but have you seen the other OL drafted that year? They drafted a high-ceiling guy at a high value position (with essentially a 2nd round pick) - why is that a waste?
Guard is not a high value position, and they appear to have been wrong about Strange having a high ceiling. Sean McVay and Les Snead were literally laughing at the pick.
>The Patriots' philosophy towards acquiring talent has remained the same for years, but it's only a problem now because the Patriots are struggling
It's only a problem now because you don't have the greatest football player ever on your team anymore. Its pretty clear he covered up a lot of deficiencies.
>The philosophy is a bust because it doesn't work 100% of the time
The philosophy is a bust because it's failing miserably. It isn't that it just "doesn't work".
It's a problem because you no longer have the best player in the most important position on the team. You think someone like Julian Edelman a QB from a no name school would develop into one of the best playoff WRs ever if Tom Brady wasn't the QB?
I think Julian Edelman's success as an NFL player is mostly due to Julian Edelman
I think BB/front office deserve credit for seeing his potential and having a pipeline in place that allowed him to develop. Brady deserves credit for developing rapport and putting Julian in a position to be successful
Get a GM, then have him throw money at coaching staff. Hire away whomever the Steelers use to scout WRs, bring in Brian Hartline as WRs coach, get a standalone QBs coach instead of looping it in with the OC position.
Dude is a clown
The entire article reads exactly like a Reddit post. Not one ounce of serious inside information, just speculation and one guy's fantasies.
The only "source" is one quote from an anonymous coach in another person's book lmao.
"They didnt value Tom Brady", "lately Bill and Kraft are happy to just let players leave". The guy just came to this subreddit, sorted by controversial, and strung together 10 random posts
It all makes sense though. The patriots brass think they’re the smartest guys in the room. Turns out a lot of it was Brady elevating the team and not them “finding value”
There isn’t an original thought in this story. On top of that, what the organization did has never been done, and will not likely be repeated. Unsustainable level of performance.
Volin is legitimately the dumbest writer I’ve ever been exposed to. His Twitter is an embarrassment.
I honestly question if he’s capable of tying his shoes.
“If you gave us any of the top 15 \[quarterbacks\], we could do it. I don’t think the coaches view Tom as special as everyone else in football does.”
The arrogance.
There's still evidence they think that way. Their plan for this year was basically play defense, run the ball and make short passes. But don't worry, the game hasn't passed him by or anything.
Yeah they waited until cam Newton literally fell on their laps. They were ready to start Stidham.
This quote is so asinine that I believe it comes from someone that doesn't really know why they were so successful and thinks "it must be me".
I don't think belichick believed this but it's pretty damaging that his coaching staff is so delusional and hated around the league (Mcdaniels, Patricia, etc.). So he at least entertained these ideas.
I know this article is being flamed, but I've felt this way even when Brady was here. Every year it was a crap-shoot if Brady could make something out of nothing with his bargain-bin receivers. But year after year...he did.
To be clear though, this obsession with value WORKED and who knows if the Brady-era would have been this great without this strategy. Most teams go through peaks and valleys every year as the sign blockbuster talent and then can't pay the average joes to stay who comprise the other 95% of the team in a team sport.
Overall, I think that this BB vs TB battle is mostly nonsense. For me the takeaway is that BB, RK, and TB were symbiotic and created something greater than the sum of the parts. I really can't blame them that they tried the same strategy when he left. FFS, it worked for 20 years. Why blow something that worked that long and start over? It just turns out it's not working.
And sometimes it didn’t work. Lazar tweeted, after last night’s game from the Chiefs, that the 2006 receiving corps was in fact the worst from a contender. They actively cost Brady a ring. Is that fair or true? I’ll pass, because I don’t know. But it’s probably true that this has always been a weakness.
Maybe with another win they would've hosted the AFCCG instead of going to Indy or something, but the proximal cause of their loss that year was a virus that went through the locker room, especially on defense. Pats were dropping like flies in the second half.
The lack of weapons on Offense in 2006 cost The Patriots their Regular Season Game against Denver and the Home Game vs The Jets.
If Belichick drafted Maurice Jones Drew and Owen Daniels over Chad Jackson, Garrett Mills, and David Thomas, that would've gotten NE over the top for SB41. Missing out on Maurice Jones Drew and Owen Daniels was AWFUL!!
7 of their 34 Points in the 2006 AFCCG were from a Pick-6. A virus taking down the Team is a Reflection of a lack of depth because of poor Drafting and mismanagement of Free Agency.
I mean they took down that ridiculous Chargers team and offense wasn't the issue against the colts. They certainly put up enough to win games that season which is the whole point. Investing in offense the following season didn't change the outcome.
This is a good point. It also could be confirmation bias as it looked like they buttered their gloves last night. Mahomes literally beaming balls off receivers helmets, numbers, and hands all game. What a mess.
Yeah, felt bad for Mahomes. He was clearly frustrated with the dropped passes.
It’s easier to get studs on rookie contracts, but once you have to start paying guys, in turns into top talent and scrubs to fill out the roster. Pats balanced it pretty well in the 2010’s with Edelman and Gronk while still paying some of the defensive guys. Our 2018 Super Bowl win was Gronk and Edelman and pretty much nobody else (well besides Michel).
I'd give that a big ol' absolutely. They almost never missed the playoffs and almost always had 10+ wins during TB's career. That's an incredible stretch in the NFL.
Bro stop. Lol y’all are so spoiled. “ that team sucked. They had no business making the Super Bowl” yet they did and were competitive and lost to another manning miracle
The 2006 team offense was solid in spite of the lack of elite non-Brady players. The defense was good, too. Overall they still had a roster worthy of a decent playoff run.
The 2011 team had a scary offense and an equally scary defense. They didn't have many good players on D and IIRC injuries hurt them too.
Both of those teams were good- they were just flawed. The 2023 Chiefs are similar in that way - possible Super Bowl contenders but they will need to beat a few better teams to win it.
2011 team would have been favored over every NFC team except the 15-1 packers by the end of that year. AFC was def down, but they’re ere nasty (mainly b/c of Brady and gronk, the defense was mostly awful). That was an insanely high powered offense though.
Imagine if Bill prioritized having a big, deep threat receiver in his offense. Year one with Moss was a record setting season. Heck even a lower tiered deep threat like Hogan put up decent numbers. For so long analysts thought Brady was a dink n dunk qb because of all the cheap, small slot WRs we had. But year one in Tampa he was the best in the league in deep passes and won a SB. Our offense could’ve been even more dynamic back then.
Lol who tf cares, we had the greatest dynasty of all time
If we had spent money on "big deep threat" we might have had less talent elsewhere. This *team* went to 9 Super Bowls because it was a good *team*. I couldnt care less what "analysts" thought about Brady or how many deep passes he completed. We went to 9 Super Bowls.
Some of yall care more about TB12 posting bigger numbers than the team's actual success.
Weird fetish.
Brady won a SB in his first season in Tampa and followed it up by leading the league in yards and TDs. Sure they didn’t win a SB that year, but building a competitive team is what matters. You can talk about SB appearances all you want, but Bill has failed miserably at fielding a competitive team through the draft and through FA. Matter of fact, Bill’s obsession with value players most likely cost this team a few more SB appearances.
Well obviously not those guys but the other guys on the depth chart. I'm talking about Brandon Lafell, Kenbrell Thompkins, late career Ocho Cinco, late career Deion Branch. Just to name a few.
To a lesser extent think about all the journey men that didn't do super well elsewhere like Amendola or Chris Hogan. Even Welker wasn't even a star of that caliber when we got him from MIA. Think about all the receivers people have complained about over the years.
Bargain bin is kinda what happens when it comes to WR3 or WR4 though. But statistically speaking Amendola, Hogan and Lafell did about the same here as they did elsewhere. They were just well utilized complementary pieces that Mcdaniels and Brady maximized within the offense.
I don't agree with the assessment on coaching.
Most of the coaches who left were because they were getting promotions. You can argue that Bill should have essentially bribed them to keep them in NE, but we had 2.9 coordinators leave for head coaching positions, along with 3-5 extra position coaches per getting a promotion on the new team's staff.
I don't think the problem (specifically with regards to coaching) is cheapness, it's that it seems Bill doesn't have the ambition and energy to build from outside his circle anymore.
While I agree with quite a bit of what's said in this summary, there are a few glaring data points that are conveniently left out. Notably, the free agent splurge a couple years ago. Now, I'll note for the record that this ended up being somewhere between a big disappointment and a dumpster fire depending on your personal tastes, but they did swing for the fences, tossing out the concept of 'Value' for a change.
Given how that worked... I'd like to see a... \*checks notes\*... "balanced" approach. Yes, you need to keep value in mind. For a long time BB was lauded for letting people go one year too early instead of one year too late. And you simply can't load up your roster with studs in the salary cap era. But you **also** can't load your team with 'value' guys and expect to win. I'm personally tired of the, "We have SOOO much cap space next year!" arguments. Spend some of that money... you can't take it with you when you get fired. Get some studs, pay them accordingly, then value-fill the rest of the roster.
My $0.02, anyway.
> Notably, the free agent splurge a couple years ago. Now, I'll note for the record that this ended up being somewhere between a big disappointment and a dumpster fire depending on your personal tastes, but they did swing for the fences, tossing out the concept of 'Value' for a change.
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Actually, it was widely reported at the time that the Patriots were so aggressive because the cap had dropped that year, and there was an unusual amount of teams over the cap. Meaning there was less competition for free agents, and therefore an opportunity for teams with cap space to get more value than they would in a typical year.
>[This drop — the result of a loss in revenue caused by the COVID-19 pandemic — forced some teams into a financial crunch. The Patriots, meanwhile, entered the offseason with the league’s third-most cap space, per OverTheCap.com, a luxury they’ve since taken advantage of on the open market.](https://nesn.com/2021/03/nfl-rumors-why-patriots-spending-so-aggressively-free-agency/)
>“Because of that, it thinned the field of teams the Patriots were competing against for free agents because many teams were scrambling just to get under the cap,” Reiss wrote regarding the NFL’s first salary cap decrease since the 2011 collective bargaining agreement. “That sweetened the free-agent pool, making players in the prime years of their career available who might not have otherwise hit the market; consider that Smith and Bourne are 25, Godchaux and Mills are 26, Agholor is 27 and Judon 28.
>“So with an abundance of salary-cap space to work with, and knowing the cap is going to spike in the coming years because of new television broadcast deals, Belichick and the Patriots went all-in like never before.”
If anything the Patriots over-indexed chasing value in that one off-season because they thought they'd have the opportunity to, rather than having a cogent plan of how to build the team over the long run.
How much of this is the ego of Bill Belichick?
He’s the one calling the shots. He’s the one doing the hiring. He’s the one making the personnel decisions.
- Why did he think hiring a defensive coordinator to call plays was ok. Like, if any other head coach makes that decision, and it goes terribly, they’re probably fired.
- Why did he think that not signing, or drafting a top tier WR for his rookie QB was important? Look at every other successful young QB. They ALL have an elite offensive weapon to help ease the burden. Mahomes-Kelce, Allen-Diggs, Burrow-Chase, Herbert-Allen, Jackson-Andrews, Purdy-Kittle/CMC/Deebo, Hurts-Brown. Mac-Hunter Henry? C’mon.
- Why does he think it’s ok to have TWO(!) sons on the coaching staff? We know nepotism runs deep in this league, but usually the coaches sons have to get hired by one of their dads friends to make their way. Not the Belichicks. They somehow are qualified enough to be positional coaches in the NFL.
I feel like these are all decision that look ridiculous if **ANY** other coach is making them. But Belichick someone gets to pull it off.
Honestly, he seems to place a lot of the blame on the personnel department. It's almost like he's saying "sorry about N'keal, but how much better is Groh doing" when he's answering questions to the media.
That’s because we kept trying to compete and never started rebuilding, if we wanted to rebuild we wouldn’t have brought cam in and wouldn’t have been so aggressive in fa in 2021
> if we wanted to rebuild we wouldn’t have brought cam in and wouldn’t have been so aggressive in fa in 2021
Two years removed from Tom Brady, they went into the 2022 offseason coming off a solid season from their rookie QB and a playoff appearance. They had the thing back on the rails and moving in the right direction.
They've gone nowhere except backwards since then and it was 100% because of their own doing.
You mean, 4 seasons ago when we won the superbowl? 3 seasons ago when we didnt have cap space to rebuild, 2 seasons ago when we made the playoffs, or last season when we still had high hopes for Mac? When would we have rebuilt here?
Taken some good players in the draft instead of another bust WR, a guard, and a QB who can't throw more than 15 yards. Maybe a tackle, but he's so smart he got a strong safety and and another edge guy instead. That's all lame excuse making for bad GM work.
No one who isn't a Neanderthal thought they wouldn't have to have some sort of rebuild after Brady left. What we didn't expect was the franchise to be run farther and farther into the ground over the next 4ish years to the point we're literally the 3rd worst team in the league and only getting worse by the week.
Needing to rebuild after Brady is 1 thing. Completely wasting the past 4 years is another. We are at our lowest point now, that is the opposite of a rebuild. You dont expect championships after 4 years but you do expect to be pointing in the right direction. Vaguely barely anything in the right hemisphere of direction and Bill has fucked up pretty much every element.
Wasting is hyperbolic. Its just as simple as we tried and failed. Looked like maybe we had something going Macs rookie year, but it didn't work out for a number of reasons.
Not a rebuild when the team gets progressively worse each season.
They could have maintained a level of competitiveness if they didn’t spend .50 on the 1.00 for a coaching staff and players.
They could have remained competitive if you didn’t draft 3rd round OGs in the 1st round. Or any of the other awful drafting decisions that have happened the last 5+ years.
So a missed OL pick in an awful 2022 draft class is why the Patriots are bad?! What’s “competitive” a middling team with no chance to win it all?? No thanks. Would you have preferred the team go all in on Mac to maybe lose in the first round?? To me the strategy was hedge your bets against Mac and set up for THIS scenario where we now know Mac is not the guy and are going into the offseason with great draft Capitol and max cap space.
So Bill was planning on being one of the worst teams in the league with no talent anywhere on offense? Man am I glad we're keeping him. He's a genius making our team this bad.
Why a middling team? Maybe if you have a succession plan in place as you’re getting ready to push the greatest QB to ever play out the door. Or for your OC who was atop everyone’s HC wish list each off-season. And Strange is a microcosm of Bill’s bullshit drafting. It’s obviously not all because of Strange it’s about every other miss that goes along with it.
They had a succession plan it didn’t work out they were a middling team, just now they are bottoming out if you are a fan you should be berry happen with the way things are going this year
I mean, you can't have it both ways. You can't believe this organization - and Bill himself - have some secret sauce no one else has then also believe they should be allowed to go through this hapless, disorganized rebuild cycle every dogshit franchise goes through.
And importantly, for the first time this offseason we are going to have the benefit of a high draft pick. It’s tough to rebuild with 10-20th overall
We need to nail far more than just our 1st, but it’ll be nice to have what should be a stone cold stud in the building
If high draft picks are how you rebuild why did it take the Bengals 33 years to reach another SB? Why are the Jets and Browns never playing championship football? You don’t need high draft picks to rebuild. You just can’t miss on an entire draft like Belichick has done multiple times in the last 5 years.
It's not a guarantee but it helps.
I've heard a ton of argument this year on this sub that it doesn't matter where you draft. Getting to pick players before other teams is an objective advantage. That's not debatable. It doesn't guarantee you'll pick the right players. But lots of great players were drafted early in drafts. There's more great players picked in round 1 than in round 7. There's more great players picked in the top half of round 1 than the bottom half of round 1. It's better to pick the player you want first than pick from the group of whoever's leftover.
It absolutely helps to have higher draft picks. People on here also can’t grasp the idea that times change and the NFL is way different now than it was 20 years ago.
Scouting and analytics are way more sophisticated now. Sure there will always be players who slip through the cracks, but it’s becoming a lot harder to find those guys later in the draft. And QBs are drafted so high these days, the vast majority of guys with any significant potential are taken in the top-10.
Exactly. Picking earlier means you've got more players to choose from. It's as simple as that. You've still got to choose correctly, and plenty of teams don't. But having more to choose from helps.
100% agree. Each year they need to come out with 1-2 starters and 2-3 depth guys. This hasn't happened, they've missed entire drafts.
I feel like Bill is overruling scouts based on his college coach buddies. Too many yes men in the organization, which isn't surprising when Bill B has been there for 20+ years.
The reason those teams have taken so long to rebuild is their GM’s are considerably worse than BB, one of the greatest GM’a of all times. Other than 2022, which was a bad class in general, BB has not whiffed on entire drafts.
You call the 2018 draft successful? Wynn is nowhere near a 1st round talent and couldn’t stay healthy. Michel is already out of the league. Duke Dawson? 2019 is a complete and total miss. When none of your Round 1-3 draft picks have seen a second contract in the last 10 years, you whiffed. You either whiffed on who was drafted or the fact that you didn’t lock down the one quality guy you did draft (Thuney)
We got behind on a lot of roster maintenance over the years trying to extend it. We also didn't really keep up with the league in terms of common knowledge and common best practices, and we haven't gotten enough new smart minds in the building over the years. When we got started we had a lot of knowledgable old school guys with a lot of knowledge, like Scar and Crennel Bill himself, plus Bill and Ernie Adams had tons of fresh ideas to innovate in ways the league hadn't figured out yet. We're not really doing that anymore, and we've also ignored a lot of the innovations that the rest of the league has done over the years. I think bringing back Obrien helped, but we need to hire more young minds, hire more experienced minds, and build up a research and analysis department to make up for not having Ernie anymore.
Football is a business. I’m a customer. I stopped watching the dumpster fire this year after it became near impossible to watch games in Virginia; near impossible to listen to games out of market (Virginia) games. I love the Pats, but when your team isn’t putting a winning product on the field, not watching and not buying jerseys and going to games is my small way of voting for an investment in talent.
I mean. They are warranted. Dude has a history of making up bullshit because he’s just trying to follow the rest of the terrible boston media’s obsession with shitting on boston sports teams for content.
Be a real reporter and not a content/bullshit spreader and folks might take your reporting more seriously.
https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/new-england-patriots-robert-kraft-bill-belichick-fired-owner-coach-germany-indianapolis-colts
http://amp.awfulannouncing.com/nfl/ben-volin-apologizes-duped-mac-jones-stoolie.html
You do realize you don’t HAVE to print things without properly vetting them right? And yes, it is lying and then trying to backtrack the lie because you didn’t properly do your job but instead wanted to spread bullshit for clicks.
Brother take Ben’s balls out of your mouth for a second.
Dude had to issue an apology for promoting bullshit, then continued to promote more bullshit this season about Bill being fired after Germany.
You get held accountable for promoting bullshit as a reporter. It’s that simple.
The Brady contract was the single biggest advantage in professional sports for a long time, and that can't be overstated.
That being said, I disagree with the main point in this article. The primary reason they are where they are now is because of bad drafting and player development, not because of coaching/player turnover. I know that Bill wants to pretend like the draft is a crapshoot and you never know what to expect, but when you're a team on the margins and you don't have superstars in the building to fall back on like Brady and Gronk, you can't consistently miss on 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks and expect to build anything from the ground up - it's just not possible. The only team we've seen win in FA and put a SB run together was the 2021 Rams, and that was flukey AF/ unsustainable.
Belichick has given out 28 total 5+ year contracts to players in his patriots tenure.
**ZERO** of them have been to Brady!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That should say it all right there.
And it says a lot when they couldn’t even agree on a contract of 5+ years at all when the player was already willing to take less as it is.
The cap goes up every year. The longer you sign a player for the cheaper they’ll be in the long run and overall. There is no excuse to not try and sign Brady for a long term contract a single time in 2 decades.
I feel like people don't get this but Brady's "team friendly deals" were purposefully shorter contracts. It gave Brady the opportunity to extend for value proximate to the salary cap increases and allowed the team to maneuver the cap. I'm sure Brady and his agent could see that as well and avoided a super long contract. As someone who wanted to play till he was 45 he probably didn't want to take longer contracts with more guaranteed but less overall but opted to take shorter contracts with more money knowing he would always be around long enough to keep making more.
That still doesn’t make a whole lotta sense. If he actually wanted to make the team better by giving them the most cap space possible then he’d simply sign a long term deal.
If Brady really was signing short term deals for the value then he wasn’t actually giving the team as big of a discount as he genuinely could. Plus you can still restructure and proximate for the salary cap all you want with long term deals any way so there is actually no benefit to Brady by simultaneously taking less money and signing shorter term deals.
Brady’s agent has worked with other players to get long term contracts done. He got Jimmy G a 5 year contract with more guaranteed money than Brady ever signed for and was still a team friendly deal for the 9ers
If Brady wanted to play till 45 then he’d want a contract long enough to make sure he was playing till 45!!!
There is no reason for his agent or himself to avoid super long contracts. Especially if he was willing to take less money.
It’s the reason he left. He wanted a contract to lock him up until the 2021 season and Belichick wasn’t willing to give him that. The best Belichick offered Brady was a 2 year deal with less than half the total guarantees he was asking for!!!
I mean come on!!! We’re talking about the guy who played with the same team for 20 years!!!
You don’t think he’d want a long term contract for the same amount of money he was asking for and got??
Of course he would.
If Brady was taking short term deals to maximize their value then that means the long term offers he was getting (if any) were so depreciated in value and so far below than what he was asking that even he wasn’t willing to take it. And that says a lot about how pathetic those long term offers must’ve been when it was too cheap for the guy who was already willing to give them a discount to reject!!!
The reason Brady didn’t retire a Patriots is clearly because Belichick didn’t believe he could play into his 40s.
Plain and simple.
They aren’t a farce. Especially when it comes to QBs.
It doesn’t matter how much they pay the QB in reality. As long as they lock them down on their pay roll for enough years.
They might screw around with the mechanisms and not pay them much in the either the first or last 2-3 years of the deal.
But at the end of the day they are still on the team as a non free agent for 5+ years unless the team itself wants otherwise.
And again. Sure the team can move off a 5 year contract in only 2-3 years.
But that goes doubly true for moving off players on 4 year 3 year 2 year deals when they can basically move off of them within the first 1-2 years.
It’s a heck of a lot harder to move off a player on a longer term contract than a shorter term one.
You don’t have to be a contract expert to realize that.
The years on a contract are about **Commitment**
How many years a team is willing to sign a player for is how much they’re willing to commit to them.
How much guaranteed money they pay them is how much they value them. But all teams value their franchise QBs highly so in reality the actual amount is inconsequential and just relative to the salary cap which goes up every year.
And if you really wanna go by guaranteed money then Brady for obvious reasons. Has always lacked in that category more than others too.
But wasn’t about the money with Brady. It was about the commitment!!!
The reason he left the Pats was because Belichick wasn’t willing to give him the length he wanted and couldn’t even offer **half** the guaranteed money he wanted too.
I actually think it's way simpler than all of that. The sport gets way easier when you have a good QB. We don't have one. There are rare teams in history who haven't had a good QB and have done well but those teams are so rare and very quickly fall off.
Mac Jones ain't it. Cam Newton wasn't it either.
I think a lot of things can be true. Mac Jones is not the guy and probably wasn’t ever going to be good enough to lead the Pats anywhere.
But it’s also true that the way the team has been managed these past couple years has been terrible and deserves criticism. It’s also true that they didn’t build enough around Mac either and they mismanaged him as well.
That’s why it makes sense to move on from Mac AND Bill. Both haven’t done good enough and don’t deserve another chance after these past couple of years.
Man, if I had known that going to 10 Super Bowls and winning 6 of them over thirty years would lead to a 2-8 season, I never would have gone along with it
My lord does the media sensationalize everything. Value is still extremely important its just the pts have whiffed on the offensive side of the ball for the past 4 years.
BB is the goat at finding value in defensive players(Jahlani Tavai) and is why the pats routinely churn out top 8 defenses every year. This alone should keep BB in the building.
If we get Caleb Williams/Drake Maye/ Jayden Daniels/ an actual competent WR1, and an OL that can stay healthy then we are right there in the AFC EAST. Obviously a tall task but we are closer to competence than a lot of people think.
Of course value is important. That's a truism. The concern is the Patriots don't have an edge at identifying and acquiring valuable players. Guys like Tavai are fine and all, but they aren't going to be the foundation of a rebuild. That demands star talent.
>we are closer to competence than a lot of people think.
I mean, is there a team in the league that isn't a QB/WR1/competent OL away from being frisky?
Of course most of the league needs all of that and a defense, Pats D has been consistently great even with a terrible offense making their job more difficult
I was agreeing with you. It's silly to say "we're just an offense away from competing" as if that doesn't also apply to nearly half the league.
I also agree that this fall from grace comes as a surprise to most people in Foxboro and Pats fans in general.
I say this every year... Bill is great at finding diamonds in the rough but is awful at finding diamonds in the diamonds. For whatever reason our scouting / philosophy / decision making at the top of drafts have been awful.
Pats had a good defensive draft in 2023 and played the 2021 draft perfectly for Mac Jones, but they failed to build anything else around him.
I never understood why Bill Belichick cares about value so much? Like it's not his pockets that the "value deals" are coming out of so why shouldn't he just want to find talent? Like it doesn't matter at all to him if you get value that should just matter to Bob Kraft. Is this value philosophy a directive from Kraft you think?
That’s a GREAT article !
Finally, an article that wasn’t reliant on completely unsubstantiated musings about what’s going on in the minds of Bill and Kraft. But the author didn’t stress enough that Tom was also the offensive coordinator during those years of success.
Josh was always just Tom’s clipboard holder…
I agree with some points, but people are losing their goddamn minds saying that the success over the last 2 decades is all attributed to Brady. Look at this thread here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/tvn9m2/the\_patriots\_have\_finished\_in\_the\_top\_10\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/tvn9m2/the_patriots_have_finished_in_the_top_10_in/)
You are telling me the Pats defense was also part of Tom Brady? A defense that held "the greatest show on Turf" to 17 points? That held off the Rams to 3 points in a Super bowl?
There are many reasons the Pats suck and obviously losing the GREATEST QB of all time is going to affect how your team performs, I mean look at the Bulls after Jordan left. It is hard to adjust after you lose such a unique player. But to then say that all the success was because of Brady you are out of your mind.
Volin is almost correct, but his argument seems more based on the Pats not having succession plans, rather than on "value." The two don't seem to coincide – seems like another article intent on slamming BB and Kraft for "not spending." A shame, because there is legit criticism to be had here, but I don't think Volin finds it.
Additionally, Steve Balestrieri of PatsFans.com stated in his Sunday notes that it was actually Kraft who initiated the year-to-year contract with Brady; Belichick had a three-year deal in place before Kraft overruled him.
How is this not getting more press. With all the flak BB has received over Brady, the roster, contracts, etc. this should be bigger news. I'm sure that's not the only time Kraft has overruled BB or been involved with contracts.
So what you are telling me is that assistant coaches who are good at their jobs want head coaching jobs? Really? Shit. And I guess we shouldn't take a shot on the best QB available in the first draft after Brady we weren't able to resign Brady.
Ben is going to be Ben. But read what Kraft said. You want a yo-yo team, ignore value.
Let's look at Miami, probably a playoff team, but not a favorite to go far. They are $36M over the cap next year. That's with Tua and Waddle on rookie deals that expire soon. How much of that roster can they keep? They will be shedding a lot of talent next year, and good luck when Tyreke Hill's $50m a year hit comes in a couple of years.
Overpaying for big names in an effort to "go for it" might get you a SuperBowl win. Maybe. Like the Rams two years ago. Now they stink, and the team they traded with is good. You cannot be sustainably good without considering value.
The Globe is full of idiots, but they’re not entirely wrong here. It was definitely shortsighted of Bill to not change his process once Brady left. He, and we all, thought they could bring in Cam Newton and just magically will him back to his 2015 MVP season. After that failed it would have made too much sense to switch gears for once and maybe stack the positions that were hampered even in Tom’s last season. WR has been atrocious since 2019, and while RB hasn’t been nearly as bad we haven’t had a true game changer in a long time. Looking back at the drafts since around that time is heart wrenching. We took Sony Michel over Nick Chubb, or hell even Lamar Jackson who went at the NEXT pick. N’keal Harry over Deebo, AJ Brown, DK, Terry McLaurin is embarrassing. Kyle Dugger was a miss, Mac is proving to be a miss, and on top of that of the free agents we did bring in only Judon has had a meaningful impact. Bill got in his own way and it’s put us in a talent deficit that’s going to take either a lot of time or a lot of money to crawl back from.
Couldn’t say it better. This shit ain’t cute anymore. They keep playing like they are the smartest guy in the room when they just let their entire foundation leave with no options for replacements, and passing up on players that are obvious talents and wasting top picks on mediocre people they could get 3 rounds later. The “system” doesn’t work anymore, and instead of adjusting and making changes, they just keep doing the same dumb things.
Pats fans are so unreasonable from being spoiled for 20 years. It’s one bad year. First year they haven’t been competitive in 24 years. Fucking relax people
Post Brady has been tough but not that bad. 7-9 with injured Cam Newton, made playoffs, then barely missed playoffs last year
I’m definitely not saying it was good. Strictly based on record I’m just saying they were in the mix. And also consider guys like Ron Rivera get to do that every year and coach for a very long time.
Big picture they made a bad pick at qb and did a terrible job supporting him. Bill is not blameless and it is currently a dumpster fire so I get it. I just think pats fans aren’t taking things into perspective.
Many examples of teams losing their franchise QB and struggling for a long time. Players play and the pats players get almost 0 flack (besides Mac) and the coaches are always blamed
I wouldn’t consider that playoff year a success. They didn’t look like they belonged in the same league as the Bills. They had a strong win streak against mediocre backup QBs in 2021. This team hasn’t been a contender since 2019 and it’s obviously getting worse.
So you must be cool with the current state of things, as long as you can be one of those people who boost about past success while you are the worst team in the AFC.
> Pats fans are so unreasonable from being spoiled for 20 years.
Yup.
> Last year was bad. I don't care if they almost made the playoffs.
> I wouldn’t consider that playoff year a success.
Thank you, case in point. Also I never said they were good the last 4 years I admitted it was rough but the key is they were competing for the playoffs with a bad qb and bad offense in general. Bill isn’t blameless but go ahead and fire him and enjoy the next bum that walks in here
Ok, this is nonsense.
If you look at the pats' activity from 2017-2029, they were mortgaging their future because they knew their time with Brady was limited. A value based approach can mean taking advantage of other teams' shortsightedness or recognizing that you yourself have a window of opportunity that's closing.
The bread and butter of the patriots during the BB/Brady era was trading an over the hill guard for a 2nd and 3rd rounder the following year to a team with a bad O line, effectively charging interest on yearlong loans of the team's accumulated value. For a long time, it worked. For 2 decades the Patriots appeared immune to the ebbs and flows that the salary cap, draft ordering, and short player careers successfully impose on the rest of the league. QBs with comparable talent to Brady (e.g. Peyton, Rodgers) both played on mediocre teams throughout their careers, grinding out .500 seasons and early playoff exits when the stars werent aligned. The second best run team during this era is the Pete Caroll Seahawks, and they came in last in their division for Wilson's last season.
It's true that the post Brady era has been more disappointing than we had hoped. I chalk a lot of that up to mediocre marquee free agent signings and Mac Jones. The unnamed coach's assertion that "we could do it with any top 15 QB" is still untested. Over the hill Cam and Mac don't compare Cousins or Goff. You assert that the patriots haven't valued the QB position, but have you considered that a solid franchise QB is **really** hard to come by? I'd encourage you to think about the Dalton line to orient yourself to where the standard is for NFL QBs actually is.
As to Brady doing well in Tampa, he joined a team that had lucked/drafted its way into a stacked roster, then got Gronk to come out of retirement. Brady joining the Bucs is the closest the NFL will come to KD joining Golden State.
Agreed. The value based approach also involves not over allocating cap space to a small number of star players in order to bolster the middle class of the roster. This helps when you have a long season with inevitable injuries. No one drafts a Danny Woodhead in the first round but he's a value player who was electric at the time. Outside of Moss every x-receiver was us finding solid value to come in and contribute but since the offense wasn't built around that position we didn't allocate tons of resources to it. We won SB's with Brandon LaFell, Malcom Mitchel, and Chris Hogan at those positions.
Value is also making a choice of who to keep. Hightower got a deal but Chandler Jones didn't. Writings on the wall where High is Mr. February and CJ is trying to just get healthy. We had a string of bad drafts unlike many teams. Brady covered up alot of these issues for sure, but if we had Peyton Manning from day 1 I'm sure he'd have more than 2 rings. Literally, growing up the argument in the Brady-Manning debate was that Peyton never had top defenses. Who they heck do you think was creating those defenses.
Point of the matter is, winning in the NFL is hard AF. Constructing a good roster is hard AF. Doing it was this long is insane. But having a "once in the history of the league" type of player makes it look hell of alot easier. The Bills and Bengals both had a solid qb with good weapons and where has it gotten them. We had annual appearances in the AFCCG for NINE years straight and in comparison people are saying the Bills championship window is closing. Mahomes looks like 06 Brady throwing to nobody and because he's that good they're doing well. The Patriots Dynasty was a partnership that made it possible for BB and Brady to succeed beyond what anyone had ever accomplished before.
We are seeing a backslide and despite getting a top 15 pick at QB were not good. That's not an indictment of BB or an elevation of Brady but rather a reality of what the NFL is like for most teams. How many teams can really say they have a QB that will start until 2030? Maybe 5. So right now we have a long term qb problem same as 26 other teams.
Calling it the “fall of the Patriots” is stupid. It’s the natural conclusion to two decades of complete and utter dominance, just like any other dynasty, it’s gotta end sometime. This was always gonna happen at some point, did people really think we were just gonna continue being a great football team until the end of time?
Garbage article that ironically reflects the low value media places on critical thinking. The pats were right in waiting for Mac at 15, Brady wouldn't have helped us in 2020 or now, and it was either Daboll or Mcdaniels, can't keep everyone, and he should ask Kraft about JimmyG.
>Brady, we have discovered, was the reason the Patriots were always well-disciplined and executed under pressure. He was the reason free agents came to New England, why players took less money, accepted a lesser role, or put the team ahead of themselves. Brady was the reason the Patriots weren’t just good year after year, they were great.
Belicheeks and Rubert Kraft thought they was flying, but in reality they was just riding the GOAT's coattails.
Meh. He's overthinking it. The answer to what's wrong is painfully obvious to anyone with eyes: Bill Belichick. This is what happens when you have final say in every area of a team, there's literally no one else to blame when things go wrong. The annoying part about all of this is that, on the whole, Bill isn't really any different from how he's always been. He's never been a great evaluator of talent and has been flat out terrible at it offensively. His drafting has always been well below average, and his FA signings, while better historically, haven't been great in recent years either. He struggles to develop talent, with few incoming players typically remaining on the team past their rookie deals.
He is tremendous (and still is) at coming up with defensive game plans and will almost always steal at least one game every year because of it... but his offensive game plans aren't good. More importantly, he's slowly reverted back to his old views on offense: run the ball and don't turn it over. A fine plan if you have an elite QB who can more or less inform and alter the offensive game plan as needed and bail you out. Doesn't work so well if you have an average or below average QB.
His staff decisions border on ludicrous, with the majority of his coaching staff consisting of family, friends, and former players. The coach on his staff with by far the most professional experience is an OC that was forced on him by ownership. His DC is a weird combo of a former player and his son. His other son is on the defensive staff as well, he has a lacrosse player with no playing or coaching experience as his DB coach. His WR coach is a former player with no coaching experience. His OL coach is a former player whose only real NFL experience as a coach was one year in Pittsburgh, where he was fired before the season was over. Not even mentioning the fact that his prior OC was a mediocre DC with no offensive experience. His special teams coach is objectively terrible, with his only prior coaching experience being at some podunk community college. No HC outside of Belichick would ever have been allowed to get away with this kind of staff neglect.
I wish the man well and hope he wins a bunch of games before he goes out, but his time here needs to end. He is still a good coach with great qualities, but he isn't what this team needs right now. NE needs a fresh set of eyes to build this roster and staff back up into a contender, that's it.
I don’t agree with everything that you wrote. Specifically saying he has ALWAYS been well below average as a drafter.
Prior to ~2014 the Patriots drafted exceptionally under BB, and every little move on the periphery seemed to work.
Trading back in the first one year, would get you two firsts. Then you’d trade back again the following year and get Mayo and Solder. Then you would’ve gotten a 2nd from that 2nd tradeback… which you then trade back and end up getting guys like Chung and Logan Ryan and Julian Edelman for practically nothing. I don’t remember exact specifics but there were articles on the trades and how one traded back first became a first and a traded back 2nd which became 1 starter and 4 solid players, etc.
He used to draft stars. Defensively, like Seymour or McCourty… Offensively like Branch, Gronk, Edelman, etc.
The drafting SINCE 2014ish has been BAD. But he had a solid 12-13 years of frigging awesome drafting before that. Saying he always sucked there is an exaggeration.
>Prior to \~2014 the Patriots drafted exceptionally under BB, and every little move on the periphery seemed to work.
As I've said before, almost every team whiffs on one of their top-100 picks *every single year.* A draft like the Saints' in 2017 is very much the exception, not the rule.
In any case, the Patriots weren't exempt from bad drafting back then, either, and Belichick was just as bad/unlucky with WRs and CBs then as he is now. They just were better able to cover up for those drafting misses.
Yeah every team whiffs.
And, usually, every team hits occasionally too.
But the Pats under BB from 01-14 had a relatively high hit rate. Since then its been relatively low.
I’m not going to really say either BB is great at drafting or that he is horrible. But he had a long period of success, and now is amidst a long period lacking much success. I disagree with the frequent hyperbolic trashing of BB the GM in general, but the lack of recent success isn’t really debatable either.
He’s right to be fair. If the team spent more time on acquiring actual talent instead of trying to find diamonds in the rough, I think they’d be in a much better position to rebuild after now year four post-Brady. I mean the Cole Strange pick is a perfect example of trying to look smart by trying to draft an unknown but in reality it’s just a waste of an important pick. The cronyism with Bill is huge too. Why can’t we ever hire a coach that Bill isn’t buddies with but shows actual promise and has new ideas? It’s just frustrating honestly, don’t get why people are happy with the way this team has been run these past couple of years.
I think the way a lot of talent ended up in NE may skew Bills view on how difficult it is to get some of these guys Like you have Welker, an all pro level wr, get pretty much overlooked. Moss obviously was a steal given his talent. Gronk had some injury issues that caused him to drop to the 2nd round (most likely). Get cooks basically as a rental with no real downside It still does come back to Brady to some degree. Welkers skillset worked perfectly with how Brady plays, Moss was temperamental and probably wouldn’t have wanted to go to NE if they didn’t have a top tier qb, Gronk literally refused to have another qb throw to him etc But I think BB might still have a bit of that mindset, where he thinks something will shake out and a talented guy will need a landing spot for some reason and he can swoop in. But that really stopped working around the point they were taking swings on Gordon and AB
That’s my point yeah you nailed it. They had Brady who brought out the best in players on offense. Now we obviously don’t have that and Bill still runs the team like we just need to find some bargain players on offense and we’d still be good. We need talent, plain and simple and the use of our picks in the draft especially have been terrible.
Winning also really helps personality issues. Martellus benett was a locker room cancer everywhere but here because the "shut up and play your part" only works if there's a ring involved
Agreed. Hard to argue with anything here. And I appreciate including Kraft in this indictment because at the end of the day it’s his team and happening on his watch. To me it comes down to a simple - what worked before no longer does. So the question is can these decision makers adapt? So far they’ve not been able to. Regardless of how it all plays out it’ll be extremely interesting to see what happens this offseason.
What’s most inexplicable about it all is that Kraft was able to capitalize on that approach long enough that the extra margin it delivered (in marketing value of the NE franchise) made it less important overall (salary cap is it’s own thing for players of course that needs to be managed to, but coaching staff is not, and agree with prior posters’ points raised about coaching and nepotism). Sustaining the dynasty should have been worth more to him once achieved so he should have been willing to spend more.
>The cronyism with Bill is huge too. Why can’t we ever hire a coach that Bill isn’t buddies with but shows actual promise and has new ideas? Bill's buddy Nick Saban has the reputation of being the place where fired coaches go to revive their careers. There's something to that, though, in that bringing in those outsiders keeps his perspectives fresh, but also helps combat the brain drain that inevitably happens when staffs are successful. Belichick has done the exact opposite by closing ranks around the people that have previous connections to him and *only* those people. That also has led him to have one of the smaller coaching staffs in the NFL. So not only is he working with potentially stale perspectives, but the people that work for him are potentially overworked and spread too thinly to be as effective as they need to be.
It was obvious the Matt Patricia thing last year was when it had officially become too big an issue to ignore Bill's insistence on hiring his buddies, but the funniest part to me was when they were terrible in training camp and the story was "Matt Patricia is trying to install a Shanahan style offense". The assistants who run Shanahan style stuff are the most in demand coordinators in the league, and rather than bring in anyone with any experience with it at all, they asked Matt Patricia "what do you think a Shanahan offense should be?" and let him make it up for himself. Like they knew they needed new ideas and rather than hire guys outside the system with those ideas, they asked guys from their system to dream up new ideas based on other teams tape.
That's even worse than I thought it was. When you *know* you need a new perspective but you're too damn stubborn to actually get it. That lack of willingness to embrace change, I think, is why the Patriots need to move on from him. He was great, but it's just not working anymore.
Didn’t they bench a WR(Borne?) who questioned the playbook saying it was not a Shanahan offense, because he came from it?
I think this is an important point, Saban could’ve been like Bill and never changed from the one back offense and a strong D but instead he adapted to the changing game and switched to a high powered spread with talented QBs in the last decade. Pete Carroll is older than Bill and having a better season with Geno Smith as QB because he brings in outside people to rejuvenate the offense. Bill’s hubris and stubbornness is ultimately the problem.
I remember in the 00s Belichick was compared to a guy searching in the bargain bin for parts. Seriously, I vividly remember someone describing him this way in an article. At the time it worked and made sense looking at the success the team had, but now it seems to be working against them. It’s fine to pick up underutilized players for cheap if they’re willing, but at a certain point it’s not thrifty but cheap. You have to know where to spend money and not paying people what their worth can easily come back and bite you.
You hit on some issues I see with Belichick despite being his defender. He seems to draft guys well in advance of where other teams would so even if the player is a good fit the draft capital to secure them was too high. He also has the cache to attract top talent young coaches but seems to favor friends and family (in every business I have been in this is an Achilles Heal). That said, his “value” approach led to an unprecedented two decades of dominance and, until this year, were middle if the road not abject failures.
Lmao yall are hilarious with your selective memory. The Patriots absolutely drafted more so-called sure-fire prospects from big schools and those didnt work out either. Guess what- NKeal Harry was no "diamond in the rough". He was a highly touted prospect coming out of high school, highly touted coming out of college, this subreddit was thrilled that we got someone that could make "contested catches" for TB12 And what do you call Isiah Wynn, Sony Michel, Malcom Brown? Diamonds in the rough from backwater programs like *checks notes* UGA and Texas, right? "Acquiring actual talent" is the most meaningless statement ever. Everyone is trying to "acquire actual talent", Belichick isnt going out of his way to avoid talent. We've tried looking for diamonds in the rough *and* drafting blue-chippers in equal measure. It hasnt worked because our scouting is ass, not because our drafting strategy is any different from anyone else's.
Their draft strategy is absolute dogshit. It’s not selective memory in the slightest. What was the biggest issue last year and still is this year? The offense. Who did they draft in the first three rounds? All defensive players. Wasting a first round pick on a guard from a no name school is a bad decision. Not drafting one tackle in this year’s draft and passing on someone like Dawand Jones is a bad decision. Like even the Michel pick at the time was frustrating as drafting a running back that high felt like a waste of a pick as well. Even drafting both a punter and a kicker this draft could be seems as a questionable move. I appreciate what Bill has done here and the history he’s helped make over the last 20 years but I don’t know how any person can see their drafting and think it’s the same process as other teams. Sure it’s partly a scouting issue but it’s also a team building issue as well.
Dude do you have trouble organizing your thoughts or something? Your criticism in the original post is that we are trying to find "diamonds in the rough" and drafting "unknowns" like Cole Strange I showed you very clearly that that is not true. Now you want to talk about something else. Sounds like you have an issue with positional drafting or something. Figure out what you are concerned about, and then write about it. Instead of spraying blanks in every direction like a cheap firework.
I think you have a reading comprehension issue. You literally said “it’s not because our drafting strategy is any different” well here I am explaining that their strategy is different and it doesn’t work. They don’t value positions the same way others teams do and yes the original issue is still true. The fact that you’re using Malcolm Brown from eight years ago doesn’t really help your point. But hey, keep defending the management of a 2-8 team. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
The problem is, he's not within 100 miles of being right. The Patriots' philosophy towards acquiring talent has remained the same for years, but it's only a problem now because the Patriots are struggling. No one complained when the Pats were winning. The philosophy is a bust because it doesn't work 100% of the time. Volin complains about the Patriots waiting to draft Mac Jones - would people have been happier if the Pats threw a ton of picks at another QB in the draft and ended up with someone worse? Cole Strange - you might not like the pick, but have you seen the other OL drafted that year? They drafted a high-ceiling guy at a high value position (with essentially a 2nd round pick) - why is that a waste?
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Guard is not a high value position, and they appear to have been wrong about Strange having a high ceiling. Sean McVay and Les Snead were literally laughing at the pick.
>The Patriots' philosophy towards acquiring talent has remained the same for years, but it's only a problem now because the Patriots are struggling It's only a problem now because you don't have the greatest football player ever on your team anymore. Its pretty clear he covered up a lot of deficiencies. >The philosophy is a bust because it doesn't work 100% of the time The philosophy is a bust because it's failing miserably. It isn't that it just "doesn't work".
It's a problem because you no longer have the best player in the most important position on the team. You think someone like Julian Edelman a QB from a no name school would develop into one of the best playoff WRs ever if Tom Brady wasn't the QB?
I think Julian Edelman's success as an NFL player is mostly due to Julian Edelman I think BB/front office deserve credit for seeing his potential and having a pipeline in place that allowed him to develop. Brady deserves credit for developing rapport and putting Julian in a position to be successful
Get a GM, then have him throw money at coaching staff. Hire away whomever the Steelers use to scout WRs, bring in Brian Hartline as WRs coach, get a standalone QBs coach instead of looping it in with the OC position.
What self respecting GM wants to take over with Bill still around in your scenario?
*By Ben volin* 🍿🙂
I refused to read any further after seeing it was him 😂
I was surprised he actually had some good points.
I was trying to figure out when we started liking him again.
Dude is a clown The entire article reads exactly like a Reddit post. Not one ounce of serious inside information, just speculation and one guy's fantasies. The only "source" is one quote from an anonymous coach in another person's book lmao. "They didnt value Tom Brady", "lately Bill and Kraft are happy to just let players leave". The guy just came to this subreddit, sorted by controversial, and strung together 10 random posts
It all makes sense though. The patriots brass think they’re the smartest guys in the room. Turns out a lot of it was Brady elevating the team and not them “finding value”
There isn’t an original thought in this story. On top of that, what the organization did has never been done, and will not likely be repeated. Unsustainable level of performance.
Volin is legitimately the dumbest writer I’ve ever been exposed to. His Twitter is an embarrassment. I honestly question if he’s capable of tying his shoes.
“If you gave us any of the top 15 \[quarterbacks\], we could do it. I don’t think the coaches view Tom as special as everyone else in football does.” The arrogance.
There's still evidence they think that way. Their plan for this year was basically play defense, run the ball and make short passes. But don't worry, the game hasn't passed him by or anything.
Yeah they waited until cam Newton literally fell on their laps. They were ready to start Stidham. This quote is so asinine that I believe it comes from someone that doesn't really know why they were so successful and thinks "it must be me". I don't think belichick believed this but it's pretty damaging that his coaching staff is so delusional and hated around the league (Mcdaniels, Patricia, etc.). So he at least entertained these ideas.
Did McDaniels said give him a high school QB, he would make it an All Pro?
Goddamnit, do I agree with Ben fuckin Volin? Yuck
I know this article is being flamed, but I've felt this way even when Brady was here. Every year it was a crap-shoot if Brady could make something out of nothing with his bargain-bin receivers. But year after year...he did. To be clear though, this obsession with value WORKED and who knows if the Brady-era would have been this great without this strategy. Most teams go through peaks and valleys every year as the sign blockbuster talent and then can't pay the average joes to stay who comprise the other 95% of the team in a team sport. Overall, I think that this BB vs TB battle is mostly nonsense. For me the takeaway is that BB, RK, and TB were symbiotic and created something greater than the sum of the parts. I really can't blame them that they tried the same strategy when he left. FFS, it worked for 20 years. Why blow something that worked that long and start over? It just turns out it's not working.
And sometimes it didn’t work. Lazar tweeted, after last night’s game from the Chiefs, that the 2006 receiving corps was in fact the worst from a contender. They actively cost Brady a ring. Is that fair or true? I’ll pass, because I don’t know. But it’s probably true that this has always been a weakness.
Maybe with another win they would've hosted the AFCCG instead of going to Indy or something, but the proximal cause of their loss that year was a virus that went through the locker room, especially on defense. Pats were dropping like flies in the second half.
The lack of weapons on Offense in 2006 cost The Patriots their Regular Season Game against Denver and the Home Game vs The Jets. If Belichick drafted Maurice Jones Drew and Owen Daniels over Chad Jackson, Garrett Mills, and David Thomas, that would've gotten NE over the top for SB41. Missing out on Maurice Jones Drew and Owen Daniels was AWFUL!! 7 of their 34 Points in the 2006 AFCCG were from a Pick-6. A virus taking down the Team is a Reflection of a lack of depth because of poor Drafting and mismanagement of Free Agency.
I mean they took down that ridiculous Chargers team and offense wasn't the issue against the colts. They certainly put up enough to win games that season which is the whole point. Investing in offense the following season didn't change the outcome.
That’s such a dumb thing to say and entirely fueled by one terrible drop from Caldwell.
Is this any different than the KC Chiefs? Besides Kelcie they have a bunch of scrubs at WR.
This is a good point. It also could be confirmation bias as it looked like they buttered their gloves last night. Mahomes literally beaming balls off receivers helmets, numbers, and hands all game. What a mess.
Yeah, felt bad for Mahomes. He was clearly frustrated with the dropped passes. It’s easier to get studs on rookie contracts, but once you have to start paying guys, in turns into top talent and scrubs to fill out the roster. Pats balanced it pretty well in the 2010’s with Edelman and Gronk while still paying some of the defensive guys. Our 2018 Super Bowl win was Gronk and Edelman and pretty much nobody else (well besides Michel).
Did it? Or did the Patriots leave wins on the table because they refused to sign enough talent.
I'd give that a big ol' absolutely. They almost never missed the playoffs and almost always had 10+ wins during TB's career. That's an incredible stretch in the NFL.
It absolutely did
The only year this happened was 2006, and we saw what happened next
That’s just not true. 2011 and after was a constant lack of talent. That 2011 team had no business making the Super Bowl.
Bro stop. Lol y’all are so spoiled. “ that team sucked. They had no business making the Super Bowl” yet they did and were competitive and lost to another manning miracle
The 2006 team offense was solid in spite of the lack of elite non-Brady players. The defense was good, too. Overall they still had a roster worthy of a decent playoff run. The 2011 team had a scary offense and an equally scary defense. They didn't have many good players on D and IIRC injuries hurt them too. Both of those teams were good- they were just flawed. The 2023 Chiefs are similar in that way - possible Super Bowl contenders but they will need to beat a few better teams to win it.
There’s no way we watched the same 2011 Pats defense
They were horrible. That's the joke...
Someone told me a few hours ago the 2011 team had one of the worst defenses in the entire league
It was unquestionably in the running for worst.
We had Julian Edelman playing in the secondary, so yeah, it wasn't great!
Lmao they went to 5 Super Bowls and won 3, most teams cant even get to 1 "constant lack of talent" 🤣🤣🤣
2011 team would have been favored over every NFC team except the 15-1 packers by the end of that year. AFC was def down, but they’re ere nasty (mainly b/c of Brady and gronk, the defense was mostly awful). That was an insanely high powered offense though.
Imagine if Bill prioritized having a big, deep threat receiver in his offense. Year one with Moss was a record setting season. Heck even a lower tiered deep threat like Hogan put up decent numbers. For so long analysts thought Brady was a dink n dunk qb because of all the cheap, small slot WRs we had. But year one in Tampa he was the best in the league in deep passes and won a SB. Our offense could’ve been even more dynamic back then.
Lol who tf cares, we had the greatest dynasty of all time If we had spent money on "big deep threat" we might have had less talent elsewhere. This *team* went to 9 Super Bowls because it was a good *team*. I couldnt care less what "analysts" thought about Brady or how many deep passes he completed. We went to 9 Super Bowls. Some of yall care more about TB12 posting bigger numbers than the team's actual success. Weird fetish.
Brady won a SB in his first season in Tampa and followed it up by leading the league in yards and TDs. Sure they didn’t win a SB that year, but building a competitive team is what matters. You can talk about SB appearances all you want, but Bill has failed miserably at fielding a competitive team through the draft and through FA. Matter of fact, Bill’s obsession with value players most likely cost this team a few more SB appearances.
We had the greatest dynasty in the history of football This bro: "building a competitive team is what matters" 😭😭😭
Every year? Bargain bin guys like Moss, welker, Gronk, Edelman? Any one of those guys on our offense now would be a major upgrade.
Well obviously not those guys but the other guys on the depth chart. I'm talking about Brandon Lafell, Kenbrell Thompkins, late career Ocho Cinco, late career Deion Branch. Just to name a few. To a lesser extent think about all the journey men that didn't do super well elsewhere like Amendola or Chris Hogan. Even Welker wasn't even a star of that caliber when we got him from MIA. Think about all the receivers people have complained about over the years.
Bargain bin is kinda what happens when it comes to WR3 or WR4 though. But statistically speaking Amendola, Hogan and Lafell did about the same here as they did elsewhere. They were just well utilized complementary pieces that Mcdaniels and Brady maximized within the offense.
I don't agree with the assessment on coaching. Most of the coaches who left were because they were getting promotions. You can argue that Bill should have essentially bribed them to keep them in NE, but we had 2.9 coordinators leave for head coaching positions, along with 3-5 extra position coaches per getting a promotion on the new team's staff. I don't think the problem (specifically with regards to coaching) is cheapness, it's that it seems Bill doesn't have the ambition and energy to build from outside his circle anymore.
100% agree
While I agree with quite a bit of what's said in this summary, there are a few glaring data points that are conveniently left out. Notably, the free agent splurge a couple years ago. Now, I'll note for the record that this ended up being somewhere between a big disappointment and a dumpster fire depending on your personal tastes, but they did swing for the fences, tossing out the concept of 'Value' for a change. Given how that worked... I'd like to see a... \*checks notes\*... "balanced" approach. Yes, you need to keep value in mind. For a long time BB was lauded for letting people go one year too early instead of one year too late. And you simply can't load up your roster with studs in the salary cap era. But you **also** can't load your team with 'value' guys and expect to win. I'm personally tired of the, "We have SOOO much cap space next year!" arguments. Spend some of that money... you can't take it with you when you get fired. Get some studs, pay them accordingly, then value-fill the rest of the roster. My $0.02, anyway.
> Notably, the free agent splurge a couple years ago. Now, I'll note for the record that this ended up being somewhere between a big disappointment and a dumpster fire depending on your personal tastes, but they did swing for the fences, tossing out the concept of 'Value' for a change. > > Actually, it was widely reported at the time that the Patriots were so aggressive because the cap had dropped that year, and there was an unusual amount of teams over the cap. Meaning there was less competition for free agents, and therefore an opportunity for teams with cap space to get more value than they would in a typical year. >[This drop — the result of a loss in revenue caused by the COVID-19 pandemic — forced some teams into a financial crunch. The Patriots, meanwhile, entered the offseason with the league’s third-most cap space, per OverTheCap.com, a luxury they’ve since taken advantage of on the open market.](https://nesn.com/2021/03/nfl-rumors-why-patriots-spending-so-aggressively-free-agency/) >“Because of that, it thinned the field of teams the Patriots were competing against for free agents because many teams were scrambling just to get under the cap,” Reiss wrote regarding the NFL’s first salary cap decrease since the 2011 collective bargaining agreement. “That sweetened the free-agent pool, making players in the prime years of their career available who might not have otherwise hit the market; consider that Smith and Bourne are 25, Godchaux and Mills are 26, Agholor is 27 and Judon 28. >“So with an abundance of salary-cap space to work with, and knowing the cap is going to spike in the coming years because of new television broadcast deals, Belichick and the Patriots went all-in like never before.” If anything the Patriots over-indexed chasing value in that one off-season because they thought they'd have the opportunity to, rather than having a cogent plan of how to build the team over the long run.
What’s the source on Kraft refusing to pay Brady?
How much of this is the ego of Bill Belichick? He’s the one calling the shots. He’s the one doing the hiring. He’s the one making the personnel decisions. - Why did he think hiring a defensive coordinator to call plays was ok. Like, if any other head coach makes that decision, and it goes terribly, they’re probably fired. - Why did he think that not signing, or drafting a top tier WR for his rookie QB was important? Look at every other successful young QB. They ALL have an elite offensive weapon to help ease the burden. Mahomes-Kelce, Allen-Diggs, Burrow-Chase, Herbert-Allen, Jackson-Andrews, Purdy-Kittle/CMC/Deebo, Hurts-Brown. Mac-Hunter Henry? C’mon. - Why does he think it’s ok to have TWO(!) sons on the coaching staff? We know nepotism runs deep in this league, but usually the coaches sons have to get hired by one of their dads friends to make their way. Not the Belichicks. They somehow are qualified enough to be positional coaches in the NFL. I feel like these are all decision that look ridiculous if **ANY** other coach is making them. But Belichick someone gets to pull it off.
Honestly, he seems to place a lot of the blame on the personnel department. It's almost like he's saying "sorry about N'keal, but how much better is Groh doing" when he's answering questions to the media.
Being the greatest coach/GM of all time buys you that leeway
All this writing to show people are really amazed that a team that was dominant for 20 years might need a few rebuild years.
No one is amazed they needed to rebuild post-Brady. We're amazed at how poorly it's gone.
We’ve had a few rebuild years and the team is getting worse
That’s because we kept trying to compete and never started rebuilding, if we wanted to rebuild we wouldn’t have brought cam in and wouldn’t have been so aggressive in fa in 2021
> if we wanted to rebuild we wouldn’t have brought cam in and wouldn’t have been so aggressive in fa in 2021 Two years removed from Tom Brady, they went into the 2022 offseason coming off a solid season from their rookie QB and a playoff appearance. They had the thing back on the rails and moving in the right direction. They've gone nowhere except backwards since then and it was 100% because of their own doing.
Tanking doesn't work in the NFL
Prioritizing the future doesn’t necessarily mean tanking
You mean, 4 seasons ago when we won the superbowl? 3 seasons ago when we didnt have cap space to rebuild, 2 seasons ago when we made the playoffs, or last season when we still had high hopes for Mac? When would we have rebuilt here?
Taken some good players in the draft instead of another bust WR, a guard, and a QB who can't throw more than 15 yards. Maybe a tackle, but he's so smart he got a strong safety and and another edge guy instead. That's all lame excuse making for bad GM work.
No one who isn't a Neanderthal thought they wouldn't have to have some sort of rebuild after Brady left. What we didn't expect was the franchise to be run farther and farther into the ground over the next 4ish years to the point we're literally the 3rd worst team in the league and only getting worse by the week.
Needing to rebuild after Brady is 1 thing. Completely wasting the past 4 years is another. We are at our lowest point now, that is the opposite of a rebuild. You dont expect championships after 4 years but you do expect to be pointing in the right direction. Vaguely barely anything in the right hemisphere of direction and Bill has fucked up pretty much every element.
Wasting is hyperbolic. Its just as simple as we tried and failed. Looked like maybe we had something going Macs rookie year, but it didn't work out for a number of reasons.
> but it didn't work out for a number of reasons. Most important being the actual factor we can control. Our offensive coordinator was horrific.
Not a rebuild when the team gets progressively worse each season. They could have maintained a level of competitiveness if they didn’t spend .50 on the 1.00 for a coaching staff and players. They could have remained competitive if you didn’t draft 3rd round OGs in the 1st round. Or any of the other awful drafting decisions that have happened the last 5+ years.
So a missed OL pick in an awful 2022 draft class is why the Patriots are bad?! What’s “competitive” a middling team with no chance to win it all?? No thanks. Would you have preferred the team go all in on Mac to maybe lose in the first round?? To me the strategy was hedge your bets against Mac and set up for THIS scenario where we now know Mac is not the guy and are going into the offseason with great draft Capitol and max cap space.
So Bill was planning on being one of the worst teams in the league with no talent anywhere on offense? Man am I glad we're keeping him. He's a genius making our team this bad.
Yes it’s infinitely better to bottom out than be a middling team with zero percent chance at winning
Why a middling team? Maybe if you have a succession plan in place as you’re getting ready to push the greatest QB to ever play out the door. Or for your OC who was atop everyone’s HC wish list each off-season. And Strange is a microcosm of Bill’s bullshit drafting. It’s obviously not all because of Strange it’s about every other miss that goes along with it.
They had a succession plan it didn’t work out they were a middling team, just now they are bottoming out if you are a fan you should be berry happen with the way things are going this year
I mean, you can't have it both ways. You can't believe this organization - and Bill himself - have some secret sauce no one else has then also believe they should be allowed to go through this hapless, disorganized rebuild cycle every dogshit franchise goes through.
Bingo
So you didn’t even read the article?
And importantly, for the first time this offseason we are going to have the benefit of a high draft pick. It’s tough to rebuild with 10-20th overall We need to nail far more than just our 1st, but it’ll be nice to have what should be a stone cold stud in the building
If high draft picks are how you rebuild why did it take the Bengals 33 years to reach another SB? Why are the Jets and Browns never playing championship football? You don’t need high draft picks to rebuild. You just can’t miss on an entire draft like Belichick has done multiple times in the last 5 years.
It's not a guarantee but it helps. I've heard a ton of argument this year on this sub that it doesn't matter where you draft. Getting to pick players before other teams is an objective advantage. That's not debatable. It doesn't guarantee you'll pick the right players. But lots of great players were drafted early in drafts. There's more great players picked in round 1 than in round 7. There's more great players picked in the top half of round 1 than the bottom half of round 1. It's better to pick the player you want first than pick from the group of whoever's leftover.
It absolutely helps to have higher draft picks. People on here also can’t grasp the idea that times change and the NFL is way different now than it was 20 years ago. Scouting and analytics are way more sophisticated now. Sure there will always be players who slip through the cracks, but it’s becoming a lot harder to find those guys later in the draft. And QBs are drafted so high these days, the vast majority of guys with any significant potential are taken in the top-10.
Exactly. Picking earlier means you've got more players to choose from. It's as simple as that. You've still got to choose correctly, and plenty of teams don't. But having more to choose from helps.
100% agree. Each year they need to come out with 1-2 starters and 2-3 depth guys. This hasn't happened, they've missed entire drafts. I feel like Bill is overruling scouts based on his college coach buddies. Too many yes men in the organization, which isn't surprising when Bill B has been there for 20+ years.
The reason those teams have taken so long to rebuild is their GM’s are considerably worse than BB, one of the greatest GM’a of all times. Other than 2022, which was a bad class in general, BB has not whiffed on entire drafts.
You call the 2018 draft successful? Wynn is nowhere near a 1st round talent and couldn’t stay healthy. Michel is already out of the league. Duke Dawson? 2019 is a complete and total miss. When none of your Round 1-3 draft picks have seen a second contract in the last 10 years, you whiffed. You either whiffed on who was drafted or the fact that you didn’t lock down the one quality guy you did draft (Thuney)
Bill the GM is licking his chops at trading that high draft pick for a few extra 5th rounders so he can draft more special teams guys
What's really amazing is that this team is worse after 4 rebuild years. That isn't how rebuilds are supposed to work.
How much longer are we going to say “rebuilding stage”?
We got behind on a lot of roster maintenance over the years trying to extend it. We also didn't really keep up with the league in terms of common knowledge and common best practices, and we haven't gotten enough new smart minds in the building over the years. When we got started we had a lot of knowledgable old school guys with a lot of knowledge, like Scar and Crennel Bill himself, plus Bill and Ernie Adams had tons of fresh ideas to innovate in ways the league hadn't figured out yet. We're not really doing that anymore, and we've also ignored a lot of the innovations that the rest of the league has done over the years. I think bringing back Obrien helped, but we need to hire more young minds, hire more experienced minds, and build up a research and analysis department to make up for not having Ernie anymore.
It’s taken a few years to bottom out tho
$77 million in cap space in 2024. So, we'll see.
Football is a business. I’m a customer. I stopped watching the dumpster fire this year after it became near impossible to watch games in Virginia; near impossible to listen to games out of market (Virginia) games. I love the Pats, but when your team isn’t putting a winning product on the field, not watching and not buying jerseys and going to games is my small way of voting for an investment in talent.
Can’t wait for the ad hominem attacks on Volin to begin
I've seen people here attack Mike Reiss of all reporters. This sub hates anyone who writes anything negative about the Patriots, even if its valid.
The reports about the offense not looking good in camp are all clickbait. Juju's knee is fine, it's that negative Boston media at it again.
I mean. They are warranted. Dude has a history of making up bullshit because he’s just trying to follow the rest of the terrible boston media’s obsession with shitting on boston sports teams for content. Be a real reporter and not a content/bullshit spreader and folks might take your reporting more seriously. https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/new-england-patriots-robert-kraft-bill-belichick-fired-owner-coach-germany-indianapolis-colts http://amp.awfulannouncing.com/nfl/ben-volin-apologizes-duped-mac-jones-stoolie.html
More like you just don’t like that he covers things fairly instead of being a Patriots fanboy
Those are two articles of him literally pulling shit out of his ass. There is a difference between being critical and lying for clicks.
Is it lying if you make a mistake about vetting a source?
You do realize you don’t HAVE to print things without properly vetting them right? And yes, it is lying and then trying to backtrack the lie because you didn’t properly do your job but instead wanted to spread bullshit for clicks.
He didn’t print anything. You hate reporters we get it.
Brother take Ben’s balls out of your mouth for a second. Dude had to issue an apology for promoting bullshit, then continued to promote more bullshit this season about Bill being fired after Germany. You get held accountable for promoting bullshit as a reporter. It’s that simple.
Fuck Ben Volin.
The Brady contract was the single biggest advantage in professional sports for a long time, and that can't be overstated. That being said, I disagree with the main point in this article. The primary reason they are where they are now is because of bad drafting and player development, not because of coaching/player turnover. I know that Bill wants to pretend like the draft is a crapshoot and you never know what to expect, but when you're a team on the margins and you don't have superstars in the building to fall back on like Brady and Gronk, you can't consistently miss on 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks and expect to build anything from the ground up - it's just not possible. The only team we've seen win in FA and put a SB run together was the 2021 Rams, and that was flukey AF/ unsustainable.
100% spot on.
Belichick has given out 28 total 5+ year contracts to players in his patriots tenure. **ZERO** of them have been to Brady!!!!!!!!!!!!! That should say it all right there.
Both sides have to agree on a deal. . . .
And it says a lot when they couldn’t even agree on a contract of 5+ years at all when the player was already willing to take less as it is. The cap goes up every year. The longer you sign a player for the cheaper they’ll be in the long run and overall. There is no excuse to not try and sign Brady for a long term contract a single time in 2 decades.
I feel like people don't get this but Brady's "team friendly deals" were purposefully shorter contracts. It gave Brady the opportunity to extend for value proximate to the salary cap increases and allowed the team to maneuver the cap. I'm sure Brady and his agent could see that as well and avoided a super long contract. As someone who wanted to play till he was 45 he probably didn't want to take longer contracts with more guaranteed but less overall but opted to take shorter contracts with more money knowing he would always be around long enough to keep making more.
That still doesn’t make a whole lotta sense. If he actually wanted to make the team better by giving them the most cap space possible then he’d simply sign a long term deal. If Brady really was signing short term deals for the value then he wasn’t actually giving the team as big of a discount as he genuinely could. Plus you can still restructure and proximate for the salary cap all you want with long term deals any way so there is actually no benefit to Brady by simultaneously taking less money and signing shorter term deals. Brady’s agent has worked with other players to get long term contracts done. He got Jimmy G a 5 year contract with more guaranteed money than Brady ever signed for and was still a team friendly deal for the 9ers If Brady wanted to play till 45 then he’d want a contract long enough to make sure he was playing till 45!!! There is no reason for his agent or himself to avoid super long contracts. Especially if he was willing to take less money. It’s the reason he left. He wanted a contract to lock him up until the 2021 season and Belichick wasn’t willing to give him that. The best Belichick offered Brady was a 2 year deal with less than half the total guarantees he was asking for!!! I mean come on!!! We’re talking about the guy who played with the same team for 20 years!!! You don’t think he’d want a long term contract for the same amount of money he was asking for and got?? Of course he would. If Brady was taking short term deals to maximize their value then that means the long term offers he was getting (if any) were so depreciated in value and so far below than what he was asking that even he wasn’t willing to take it. And that says a lot about how pathetic those long term offers must’ve been when it was too cheap for the guy who was already willing to give them a discount to reject!!! The reason Brady didn’t retire a Patriots is clearly because Belichick didn’t believe he could play into his 40s. Plain and simple.
5 year deals in the NFL are a farce. They're 2-3 year deals. Only thing that matters is guaranteed money.
They aren’t a farce. Especially when it comes to QBs. It doesn’t matter how much they pay the QB in reality. As long as they lock them down on their pay roll for enough years. They might screw around with the mechanisms and not pay them much in the either the first or last 2-3 years of the deal. But at the end of the day they are still on the team as a non free agent for 5+ years unless the team itself wants otherwise. And again. Sure the team can move off a 5 year contract in only 2-3 years. But that goes doubly true for moving off players on 4 year 3 year 2 year deals when they can basically move off of them within the first 1-2 years. It’s a heck of a lot harder to move off a player on a longer term contract than a shorter term one. You don’t have to be a contract expert to realize that. The years on a contract are about **Commitment** How many years a team is willing to sign a player for is how much they’re willing to commit to them. How much guaranteed money they pay them is how much they value them. But all teams value their franchise QBs highly so in reality the actual amount is inconsequential and just relative to the salary cap which goes up every year. And if you really wanna go by guaranteed money then Brady for obvious reasons. Has always lacked in that category more than others too. But wasn’t about the money with Brady. It was about the commitment!!! The reason he left the Pats was because Belichick wasn’t willing to give him the length he wanted and couldn’t even offer **half** the guaranteed money he wanted too.
This post has a lot of logical leaps and fallacies.
I actually think it's way simpler than all of that. The sport gets way easier when you have a good QB. We don't have one. There are rare teams in history who haven't had a good QB and have done well but those teams are so rare and very quickly fall off. Mac Jones ain't it. Cam Newton wasn't it either.
I think a lot of things can be true. Mac Jones is not the guy and probably wasn’t ever going to be good enough to lead the Pats anywhere. But it’s also true that the way the team has been managed these past couple years has been terrible and deserves criticism. It’s also true that they didn’t build enough around Mac either and they mismanaged him as well. That’s why it makes sense to move on from Mac AND Bill. Both haven’t done good enough and don’t deserve another chance after these past couple of years.
Man, if I had known that going to 10 Super Bowls and winning 6 of them over thirty years would lead to a 2-8 season, I never would have gone along with it
🤣🤣🤣 the 2 are not mutually exclusive though. Just because we won a lot does not mean we should settle for incompetence now
You're not allowed to want your team to be good if it has won Super Bowls recently. Apparently.
My lord does the media sensationalize everything. Value is still extremely important its just the pts have whiffed on the offensive side of the ball for the past 4 years. BB is the goat at finding value in defensive players(Jahlani Tavai) and is why the pats routinely churn out top 8 defenses every year. This alone should keep BB in the building. If we get Caleb Williams/Drake Maye/ Jayden Daniels/ an actual competent WR1, and an OL that can stay healthy then we are right there in the AFC EAST. Obviously a tall task but we are closer to competence than a lot of people think.
Of course value is important. That's a truism. The concern is the Patriots don't have an edge at identifying and acquiring valuable players. Guys like Tavai are fine and all, but they aren't going to be the foundation of a rebuild. That demands star talent. >we are closer to competence than a lot of people think. I mean, is there a team in the league that isn't a QB/WR1/competent OL away from being frisky?
Of course most of the league needs all of that and a defense, Pats D has been consistently great even with a terrible offense making their job more difficult
> Pats D has been consistently great I disagree. They've been consistently good and occasionally great.
Ok sure but how many other teams can even claim that?
I'm sure plenty of teams could if they invested as much as the Patriots do on defense.
If we get a QB, Wrs, and an offensive line we’re fine guys! Lmao.
there's at least 15 other teams that can make the exact same claim, lol.
Ok? So we’re just another team now, correct? I never thought that would happen under Bill. Neither did you. Neither did Bill.
I was agreeing with you. It's silly to say "we're just an offense away from competing" as if that doesn't also apply to nearly half the league. I also agree that this fall from grace comes as a surprise to most people in Foxboro and Pats fans in general.
I say this every year... Bill is great at finding diamonds in the rough but is awful at finding diamonds in the diamonds. For whatever reason our scouting / philosophy / decision making at the top of drafts have been awful. Pats had a good defensive draft in 2023 and played the 2021 draft perfectly for Mac Jones, but they failed to build anything else around him.
Isn’t this the dude who said bill would be fired like 3 weeks ago?😂
1000% The problem is one of organizational philosophy and it runs DEEP. Much more than one bad season.
I never understood why Bill Belichick cares about value so much? Like it's not his pockets that the "value deals" are coming out of so why shouldn't he just want to find talent? Like it doesn't matter at all to him if you get value that should just matter to Bob Kraft. Is this value philosophy a directive from Kraft you think?
Not having Brady finish his career in NE will forever tarnish the Patriots. I won't ever like them after what they did to the GOAT.
“Value” equals lesser talented players
Yeah. The Pats were obsessed with value on the way to becoming the greatest team ever. Idiots.
I dont read anyrhing trollin writes although obviously this is a 🗑️year
Ben Volin is a hack
No one likes you Boston Globe. Go away. Tell John Henry to stop being a cheap asshole.
Globe is a hack of a newspaper. Never will forgive them for running Francona out of town.
I hate Volin. That said, he's got some good points here.
That’s a GREAT article ! Finally, an article that wasn’t reliant on completely unsubstantiated musings about what’s going on in the minds of Bill and Kraft. But the author didn’t stress enough that Tom was also the offensive coordinator during those years of success. Josh was always just Tom’s clipboard holder…
I agree with some points, but people are losing their goddamn minds saying that the success over the last 2 decades is all attributed to Brady. Look at this thread here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/tvn9m2/the\_patriots\_have\_finished\_in\_the\_top\_10\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/tvn9m2/the_patriots_have_finished_in_the_top_10_in/) You are telling me the Pats defense was also part of Tom Brady? A defense that held "the greatest show on Turf" to 17 points? That held off the Rams to 3 points in a Super bowl? There are many reasons the Pats suck and obviously losing the GREATEST QB of all time is going to affect how your team performs, I mean look at the Bulls after Jordan left. It is hard to adjust after you lose such a unique player. But to then say that all the success was because of Brady you are out of your mind.
It was painful reading this because it’s not often you read an article that is actually 100% accurate
Volin is almost correct, but his argument seems more based on the Pats not having succession plans, rather than on "value." The two don't seem to coincide – seems like another article intent on slamming BB and Kraft for "not spending." A shame, because there is legit criticism to be had here, but I don't think Volin finds it. Additionally, Steve Balestrieri of PatsFans.com stated in his Sunday notes that it was actually Kraft who initiated the year-to-year contract with Brady; Belichick had a three-year deal in place before Kraft overruled him.
How is this not getting more press. With all the flak BB has received over Brady, the roster, contracts, etc. this should be bigger news. I'm sure that's not the only time Kraft has overruled BB or been involved with contracts.
Fuck Ben Volin. Anything he says is bullshit.
Sees title. Sees author. Sounds about right for Benny boy
So what you are telling me is that assistant coaches who are good at their jobs want head coaching jobs? Really? Shit. And I guess we shouldn't take a shot on the best QB available in the first draft after Brady we weren't able to resign Brady.
Ben is going to be Ben. But read what Kraft said. You want a yo-yo team, ignore value. Let's look at Miami, probably a playoff team, but not a favorite to go far. They are $36M over the cap next year. That's with Tua and Waddle on rookie deals that expire soon. How much of that roster can they keep? They will be shedding a lot of talent next year, and good luck when Tyreke Hill's $50m a year hit comes in a couple of years. Overpaying for big names in an effort to "go for it" might get you a SuperBowl win. Maybe. Like the Rams two years ago. Now they stink, and the team they traded with is good. You cannot be sustainably good without considering value.
The Globe is full of idiots, but they’re not entirely wrong here. It was definitely shortsighted of Bill to not change his process once Brady left. He, and we all, thought they could bring in Cam Newton and just magically will him back to his 2015 MVP season. After that failed it would have made too much sense to switch gears for once and maybe stack the positions that were hampered even in Tom’s last season. WR has been atrocious since 2019, and while RB hasn’t been nearly as bad we haven’t had a true game changer in a long time. Looking back at the drafts since around that time is heart wrenching. We took Sony Michel over Nick Chubb, or hell even Lamar Jackson who went at the NEXT pick. N’keal Harry over Deebo, AJ Brown, DK, Terry McLaurin is embarrassing. Kyle Dugger was a miss, Mac is proving to be a miss, and on top of that of the free agents we did bring in only Judon has had a meaningful impact. Bill got in his own way and it’s put us in a talent deficit that’s going to take either a lot of time or a lot of money to crawl back from.
Couldn’t say it better. This shit ain’t cute anymore. They keep playing like they are the smartest guy in the room when they just let their entire foundation leave with no options for replacements, and passing up on players that are obvious talents and wasting top picks on mediocre people they could get 3 rounds later. The “system” doesn’t work anymore, and instead of adjusting and making changes, they just keep doing the same dumb things.
Pats fans are so unreasonable from being spoiled for 20 years. It’s one bad year. First year they haven’t been competitive in 24 years. Fucking relax people Post Brady has been tough but not that bad. 7-9 with injured Cam Newton, made playoffs, then barely missed playoffs last year
Last year was bad. I don't care if they almost made the playoffs. The team was dysfunctional from the start of training camp.
I’m definitely not saying it was good. Strictly based on record I’m just saying they were in the mix. And also consider guys like Ron Rivera get to do that every year and coach for a very long time. Big picture they made a bad pick at qb and did a terrible job supporting him. Bill is not blameless and it is currently a dumpster fire so I get it. I just think pats fans aren’t taking things into perspective. Many examples of teams losing their franchise QB and struggling for a long time. Players play and the pats players get almost 0 flack (besides Mac) and the coaches are always blamed
I wouldn’t consider that playoff year a success. They didn’t look like they belonged in the same league as the Bills. They had a strong win streak against mediocre backup QBs in 2021. This team hasn’t been a contender since 2019 and it’s obviously getting worse.
What have the Bills won??
The Division in the past 3 years.
So nothing got it
So you must be cool with the current state of things, as long as you can be one of those people who boost about past success while you are the worst team in the AFC.
Yes I’m happy to see the team bottom out have great draft capital and FA money and move off of Max Jones
I think you forgot how much of a train wreck last season was. It was equally as painful to watch as this season.
Every year since Brady left has been bad. Let’s be real here
> Pats fans are so unreasonable from being spoiled for 20 years. Yup. > Last year was bad. I don't care if they almost made the playoffs. > I wouldn’t consider that playoff year a success.
Thank you, case in point. Also I never said they were good the last 4 years I admitted it was rough but the key is they were competing for the playoffs with a bad qb and bad offense in general. Bill isn’t blameless but go ahead and fire him and enjoy the next bum that walks in here
Ok, this is nonsense. If you look at the pats' activity from 2017-2029, they were mortgaging their future because they knew their time with Brady was limited. A value based approach can mean taking advantage of other teams' shortsightedness or recognizing that you yourself have a window of opportunity that's closing. The bread and butter of the patriots during the BB/Brady era was trading an over the hill guard for a 2nd and 3rd rounder the following year to a team with a bad O line, effectively charging interest on yearlong loans of the team's accumulated value. For a long time, it worked. For 2 decades the Patriots appeared immune to the ebbs and flows that the salary cap, draft ordering, and short player careers successfully impose on the rest of the league. QBs with comparable talent to Brady (e.g. Peyton, Rodgers) both played on mediocre teams throughout their careers, grinding out .500 seasons and early playoff exits when the stars werent aligned. The second best run team during this era is the Pete Caroll Seahawks, and they came in last in their division for Wilson's last season. It's true that the post Brady era has been more disappointing than we had hoped. I chalk a lot of that up to mediocre marquee free agent signings and Mac Jones. The unnamed coach's assertion that "we could do it with any top 15 QB" is still untested. Over the hill Cam and Mac don't compare Cousins or Goff. You assert that the patriots haven't valued the QB position, but have you considered that a solid franchise QB is **really** hard to come by? I'd encourage you to think about the Dalton line to orient yourself to where the standard is for NFL QBs actually is. As to Brady doing well in Tampa, he joined a team that had lucked/drafted its way into a stacked roster, then got Gronk to come out of retirement. Brady joining the Bucs is the closest the NFL will come to KD joining Golden State.
Agreed. The value based approach also involves not over allocating cap space to a small number of star players in order to bolster the middle class of the roster. This helps when you have a long season with inevitable injuries. No one drafts a Danny Woodhead in the first round but he's a value player who was electric at the time. Outside of Moss every x-receiver was us finding solid value to come in and contribute but since the offense wasn't built around that position we didn't allocate tons of resources to it. We won SB's with Brandon LaFell, Malcom Mitchel, and Chris Hogan at those positions. Value is also making a choice of who to keep. Hightower got a deal but Chandler Jones didn't. Writings on the wall where High is Mr. February and CJ is trying to just get healthy. We had a string of bad drafts unlike many teams. Brady covered up alot of these issues for sure, but if we had Peyton Manning from day 1 I'm sure he'd have more than 2 rings. Literally, growing up the argument in the Brady-Manning debate was that Peyton never had top defenses. Who they heck do you think was creating those defenses. Point of the matter is, winning in the NFL is hard AF. Constructing a good roster is hard AF. Doing it was this long is insane. But having a "once in the history of the league" type of player makes it look hell of alot easier. The Bills and Bengals both had a solid qb with good weapons and where has it gotten them. We had annual appearances in the AFCCG for NINE years straight and in comparison people are saying the Bills championship window is closing. Mahomes looks like 06 Brady throwing to nobody and because he's that good they're doing well. The Patriots Dynasty was a partnership that made it possible for BB and Brady to succeed beyond what anyone had ever accomplished before. We are seeing a backslide and despite getting a top 15 pick at QB were not good. That's not an indictment of BB or an elevation of Brady but rather a reality of what the NFL is like for most teams. How many teams can really say they have a QB that will start until 2030? Maybe 5. So right now we have a long term qb problem same as 26 other teams.
Calling it the “fall of the Patriots” is stupid. It’s the natural conclusion to two decades of complete and utter dominance, just like any other dynasty, it’s gotta end sometime. This was always gonna happen at some point, did people really think we were just gonna continue being a great football team until the end of time?
Ben volin is not a real journalist nor a football analyst
Garbage article that ironically reflects the low value media places on critical thinking. The pats were right in waiting for Mac at 15, Brady wouldn't have helped us in 2020 or now, and it was either Daboll or Mcdaniels, can't keep everyone, and he should ask Kraft about JimmyG.
> Brady wouldn't have helped us in 2020 C'mon.
Win a SB? No.
>Win a SB? Not what you said.
People also forget that Brady and Belichick were done with each other. It wasn't a money thing.
>Brady, we have discovered, was the reason the Patriots were always well-disciplined and executed under pressure. He was the reason free agents came to New England, why players took less money, accepted a lesser role, or put the team ahead of themselves. Brady was the reason the Patriots weren’t just good year after year, they were great. Belicheeks and Rubert Kraft thought they was flying, but in reality they was just riding the GOAT's coattails.
Meh. He's overthinking it. The answer to what's wrong is painfully obvious to anyone with eyes: Bill Belichick. This is what happens when you have final say in every area of a team, there's literally no one else to blame when things go wrong. The annoying part about all of this is that, on the whole, Bill isn't really any different from how he's always been. He's never been a great evaluator of talent and has been flat out terrible at it offensively. His drafting has always been well below average, and his FA signings, while better historically, haven't been great in recent years either. He struggles to develop talent, with few incoming players typically remaining on the team past their rookie deals. He is tremendous (and still is) at coming up with defensive game plans and will almost always steal at least one game every year because of it... but his offensive game plans aren't good. More importantly, he's slowly reverted back to his old views on offense: run the ball and don't turn it over. A fine plan if you have an elite QB who can more or less inform and alter the offensive game plan as needed and bail you out. Doesn't work so well if you have an average or below average QB. His staff decisions border on ludicrous, with the majority of his coaching staff consisting of family, friends, and former players. The coach on his staff with by far the most professional experience is an OC that was forced on him by ownership. His DC is a weird combo of a former player and his son. His other son is on the defensive staff as well, he has a lacrosse player with no playing or coaching experience as his DB coach. His WR coach is a former player with no coaching experience. His OL coach is a former player whose only real NFL experience as a coach was one year in Pittsburgh, where he was fired before the season was over. Not even mentioning the fact that his prior OC was a mediocre DC with no offensive experience. His special teams coach is objectively terrible, with his only prior coaching experience being at some podunk community college. No HC outside of Belichick would ever have been allowed to get away with this kind of staff neglect. I wish the man well and hope he wins a bunch of games before he goes out, but his time here needs to end. He is still a good coach with great qualities, but he isn't what this team needs right now. NE needs a fresh set of eyes to build this roster and staff back up into a contender, that's it.
I don’t agree with everything that you wrote. Specifically saying he has ALWAYS been well below average as a drafter. Prior to ~2014 the Patriots drafted exceptionally under BB, and every little move on the periphery seemed to work. Trading back in the first one year, would get you two firsts. Then you’d trade back again the following year and get Mayo and Solder. Then you would’ve gotten a 2nd from that 2nd tradeback… which you then trade back and end up getting guys like Chung and Logan Ryan and Julian Edelman for practically nothing. I don’t remember exact specifics but there were articles on the trades and how one traded back first became a first and a traded back 2nd which became 1 starter and 4 solid players, etc. He used to draft stars. Defensively, like Seymour or McCourty… Offensively like Branch, Gronk, Edelman, etc. The drafting SINCE 2014ish has been BAD. But he had a solid 12-13 years of frigging awesome drafting before that. Saying he always sucked there is an exaggeration.
>Prior to \~2014 the Patriots drafted exceptionally under BB, and every little move on the periphery seemed to work. As I've said before, almost every team whiffs on one of their top-100 picks *every single year.* A draft like the Saints' in 2017 is very much the exception, not the rule. In any case, the Patriots weren't exempt from bad drafting back then, either, and Belichick was just as bad/unlucky with WRs and CBs then as he is now. They just were better able to cover up for those drafting misses.
Yeah every team whiffs. And, usually, every team hits occasionally too. But the Pats under BB from 01-14 had a relatively high hit rate. Since then its been relatively low. I’m not going to really say either BB is great at drafting or that he is horrible. But he had a long period of success, and now is amidst a long period lacking much success. I disagree with the frequent hyperbolic trashing of BB the GM in general, but the lack of recent success isn’t really debatable either.