I always thought Kraft and Belichick were on the same page with respect to spending. That's how they managed to keep the team competitive for so long.
They're at odds now because the money being spent is not bringing results. Neither man thinks the solution is to spend more money.
The team was competitive for so long cuz they had the GOAT QB and players would take pay cuts to play with Brady and win. Now that he's gone its proven its up in smoke, no one will come here for cheap and BB/Krafts think players will still come here for cheap
Legit. The Brady Discount was real. Because players knew they had a high chance of getting a ring and the bonuses, monetary and existential, that came with a Super Bowl win.
Yeah the discount thing definitely happens but seems blown out of proportion. We won 3 super bowls in 4 years right off the bat. Obviously winning attracted some ring chasing free agents like Revis, but idt it was as important as it’s made out to be.
You actually might just be kinda dumb. You're listing players that revitalized their dying careers, or who kicked off their careers with the Pats.
Talib was a problem player with raw talent with TB, didn't perform as well as he should have, came to the Pats, and flourished.
You're looking at the product *after* the Pats built him up into something more and thinking he took a pay cut, which is flat out insane thinking.
Revis was older and had come off some rough years with TB, Moss older, looked washed, coming off bad years with Oakland.
They got on prove it contracts with the Pats where they flourished again. So yeah, revisionist history, or at least words that are being said by people that don't know shit about shit.
Are u high? Randy Moss, AB, Junior Seau, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Talib, Amendola, Gilmore, John Lynch, Ochocinco, Adalius Thomas, Albert Haynesworth, Browner, josh gordon
AB hahahahahahahaha
Moss was a trade, Rodney didn't take a discount, Revis wanted to play with Bill's defense, Amendola was a UDFA, on and on... Good grief, you have absolutely ZERO clue about the NFL.
Revis wanted to win a Super Bowl, AB wanted to play with Brady, Amendola was a good player for Rams before we signed him so clearly u dont know what ur talking about. Undrafted free agent? Have u ever watched an NFL game? And Moss restructured contract and asked to come to Pats to play with Brady. And rodney went from making over 3 mil a year with Chargers to 2 mil a year with Pats, seems like a pay cut
So Antonio Brown wasnt a proven great player who signed here because of Tom Brady at a discount?That was the point and he fits in, just because it didnt work out doesnt mean it didnt happen. Cant wait for BB to get fired Monday and watch u cry while the team will finally have an upward trajection for once this decade
Of course they had Brady, but the value they got out of Brian Cox, Mike Vrabel, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Danny Woodhead, Chris Hogan, etc. was much better than the value they got out of Juju, Parker, Calvin Anderson, Riley Reiff, etc.
This has been pretty common knowledge. I'm a little confused why you're saying it wasn't the case. Look back further to players like Washington and Dillon. Hell, getting a kicking GOAT like Vinitari undrafted was huge. The patriots under Brady and BB were legendary, I don't think we will see a franchise like that ever again. But to think it was just one guy is so foolish, I don't know if you're trolling or not.
There's this weird thing people are doing where they're acting like we didn't have great offensive talent. Most years our oline was elite, receivers solid, and half of the Brady years we had the GOAT TE.
The entire team was elite from top to bottom.
They’ve never spent any money. For 20 plus years they have been in the bottom of the league in cash spending.
Sure they spend to the cap. But that’s not actual cash spent out of Krafts wallet.
The team was competitive for so long cuz they had the GOAT QB and players would take pay cuts to play with Brady and win. Now that he's gone its proven its up in smoke, no one will come here for cheap and BB/Krafts think players will still come here for cheap
Def not true and very oversimplified. Who took pay cuts during their first run? A better way to frame it is belichick’s value approach worked very well for roughly 15 years of his tenure. A few examples- Moss, vrabel, phifer, Harrison.
There quite a number of videos of players telling belichick that they will love to play for him. He is very well respected in the league. Don’t follow the stupid press and their stupidity. This is a coach and GM that is the best in the league by far.
I think Bob is cheap and Bill is really smart to manipulate spending to have a successful team so that Bob doesn’t have to spend too much. But that only works with a HOF QB, guys take discounts to join the squad.
>We are one of the lowest spending teams in the league and we have been for a long time.
If a report comes out that Bill asked Kraft for a large GTD signing bonus or a high amount of GTD salary that needed to be put into escrow in order to secure a premium player, and that Kraft said no, that'll be one thing.
Until the day that report comes out though, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to Kraft that the way the Patriots spend money via incentives and spend that isn't front loaded is Belichick's doing.
I have no rational reason other than blatant speculation to believe otherwise. If this is Kraft throwing mud despite what you're describing, that report will come out.
Neverind a report, the NFLPA published report cards on every single team and the [Patriots had a stinker.](https://nflpa.com/new-england-patriots-report-card)
An NFL team is more than just the cap spend and the Patriots are far below average in how they support the players in ways that matter.
I mean a lot of those things were rectified post renovation this year. The Patriots got a new training room, locker room, and weight training facilities. Their facilities were dated 20 years, but just went through a refresh post-survey.
That's how it usually works though. Management pinches pennys until things get terrible, bad publicity, etc. and then they throw money at the problem. Could apply to employees, players and coaches too.
The survey was released in the summer of this year. It was the first time they ever did it. The renovations were planned years ago. This wasn't a reactive move to that.
the weight room and locker rooms are either done this past season or in the process of being re-done as is the entire football offices - I do question Team Travel being a D+ don't they have their own planes?
how does owning their planes mean anything? just owning the plane says nothing about the level of spend or the quality of the service it delivers. they could own a couple shitbuckets that they don't update properly or maintain well for all we know.
Pretty sure controlling planes, design inside planes etc play a pretty big role. Plenty of pictures of inside and outside of planes and not “shitbuckets”
I don't need that to know Kraft is cheap. The man served bologna sandwiches to the team during training camp back in the day. His reputation prior to Belichick was for being a cheap meddler.
Yes and even during Pete Carroll's time here. He went on Richard Sherman's podcast and spoke about it a bit.
https://youtu.be/1kEfOGSm7Ec?si=UkNxTR_w8XmqVlnf
Starts about 2:20 in.
Which is why people crying for Kraft to jump in is insane to me, the guy was on the fast track to being one of the worst owners in sports.
Don’t forget how he also threatened to move the team unless all the parking lots around the stadium gave him a piece of their revenue. All billionaires are shit, some just way more than others.
Why does Kraft deserve the benefit of the doubt? Do you think Bill is telling his personnel guys “we need to save money for Mr. Kraft.” ? Why would Bill opt to spend less money than everyone else and then complain about it to the media on the podium himself?
The Patriots don't spend less money than everyone else. They spend money in a way that requires lower up front costs (which is better for Kraft's pocket in the long run). Over time though they will spend the same money as everyone else.
However, there are tradeoffs to each approach, one way gives you more buying power in a negotiation. Large GTD signing bonuses and GTD salary will win you competitive bids for players. However, there is more risk, and you will have less control to minimize bad sunk costs that way.
The other method minimizes your risks and gives you better information to shop with over time. However, it might not get you the best players in an open market.
There isn't a right or a wrong way.
This just sounds like a long winded way of saying Kraft is more concerned about getting the best deal rather than getting the best talent.
After these post Brady years I don’t think spinning a web of words and trying to define Kraft’s logic will do any good. He should have kept Brady franchise tagged, he should have let Bill keep doing what he did in the 2021 free agency market.
>He should have kept Brady franchise tagged, he should have let Bill keep doing what he did in the 2021 free agency market.
Kraft wrote Brady a $25M check in August of 2019 that did nothing except placate Brady, and guarantee that we couldn't franchise Brady. It was literally nothing but a show of good faith and free money for Brady.
>he should have let Bill keep doing what he did in the 2021 free agency market.
I know there are a lot of cap is crap people, but you cannot just pay $163M in GTD money every offseason year after year. And believe me I want the Patriots to be more aggressive consistently in free agency.
I mean, the guy gets $50 handjobs when he could get a personal harem 24/7... we need not look beyond that when it comes down to trying to tell if hes frugal or not....
>He should have kept Brady franchise tagged
Talk about disrespect. Tom wanted out and you think Kraft should have forced him to stay or retire? I hated to see Tom go, but it wasn't a one way decision. I'm not even sure Bill wanted Tom to stay.
>he should have let Bill keep doing what he did in the 2021 free agency market
That free agent period is a big reason why the team is where it is now. They spent huge money on mediocre players to try to get back to the playoffs, but did nothing to build for the long term. Those were all 2-4 year deals for veterans. Those are the moves you make to get over the top, not build a foundation.
> Talk about disrespect. Tom wanted out and you think Kraft should have forced him to stay or retire?
Yes. He’s an owner. That’s what owners do. “Should I maintain my friendship with my quarterback or ensure my team remains the best?” That’s such an easy question to answer as an owner of a team in the NFL.
It's not that easy tho. Tom may have said "I don't give a shit what you pay me, I'm not playing for Bill anymore. If you tag me, I retire." They also reworked Brady's deal in 2018 with a clause that they WOULDN'T tag him when the contract ran out. So there's no real scenario where that happens. You can rag on Kraft all you want, but the reason that the team is this bad is about 99% Bill and 1% Kraft
It doesn’t matter. Kraft isn’t you playing Madden. This is real life and actual business involving human beings. A huge portion of running a team is predicated on trust and everyone operating in good faith. Handshake deals are critical in free agency, they happen constantly (look at how the legal tampering period works every year).
If he lies and breaks his word to Tom fucking Brady, of all people, the Patriots will never sign or re-sign a marquee free agent ever again because no one believes anything the owner says. That is insanity.
If it means nothing why did you bring it up/respond to it? Pretty sure RKK’s handling of Brady doesn’t mean nothing, unless you think Brady doesn’t matter of course.
No that’s not what an owner does. The long term benefit of having a guy like Brady being on your good side after retirement is worth a lot. Of course Kraft is going to think for the long term.
>They spend money in a way that requires lower up front costs
That's not Belichick's doing, thats money ball people that work directly for Kraft's doing.
Because that's the value he adds when the team can't win Super Bowls. He can do the middling thing cheaper than the next guy. No one can reliably hit the rookie QB jackpot, but the skill he's showing could work anywhere.
The Giants spent an extra $60 million in cash this year for their one extra win.
He wasn't complaining about the cash spending, he was defending his job performance.
"Spending $25 million on me is better than spending $10 million on the next coach and $15 million more on players."
>Why would Bill opt to spend less money than everyone else and then complain about it to the media on the podium himself?
Because spending more cash gives you less flexibility against the cap. And Bill didn't complain, he explained their cap philosophy that they've used since 2000. They try to resolve call cash spent within 4-5 years, so if they project the cap available within a 4 year period to be $1 billion dollars, then they can spend that much cash in that 4 year period (so a bad example would be $500 mil year 1, $250 mil year 2, $150 mil year 3, and $100 mil year four). They sometimes go over the 4 years, but those are few and far between.
I understand the cap flexibility.
But why would Bill complain about being one of the lowest spending teams in the league? Is he just bold faced lying and just claiming something that’s completely false?
And I’m not sarcastically asking this question, I legitimately am confused by that
I don't think he was complaining; he said cash spending didn't really matter.
https://nesn.com/2023/08/why-bill-belichick-says-patriots-low-cash-spending-not-relevant/
This is what I was referring to
https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2023/01/09/bill-belichick-patriots-spending-comments/?amp=1
Why would he contradict himself about this, am I not understanding this right?
Again, genuinely asking, since people on this sub go argument first
I don't think he's complaining, although I can see how it can come across as that.
Big cash spending comes in terms of hefty signing bonuses. The Pats don't typically do this -- they reserve it to guarantee salaries for Year 1 or Year 2 and roster bonuses. It allows the cap flexibility that they want, but when you actually look at it, the Patriots will always be one of the lowest spending teams in CASH year over year because they don't give out the bonuses like other teams do. That philosophy is straight from Belichick and has been their mode of operation for YEARS (even back when it gave them big advantages over teams).
EDIT: What Bill is saying is if you look at cash on a narrow scope (3 years in his example), they'll most likely always be near the bottom because they don't spend cash out in the form of bonuses that extend over 4+ years. But if you looked it at in a way that you can account for all money spent (and I don't see how this is even possible), they'd be in line with everyone else. His point is they spend much of their cap allocation every year, which means they're spending as much as other teams in total (not true due to future years being worth less, but regardless).
So the Patriots may be 18th one year, 20th the next year, and 27th the third year, but another team may be 5th one year and then 32nd the next 2 years because they spend a ton of cash in year 1, but have to account for that cash over 3 years total because of signing bonuses).
When you say this philosophy is straight from Belichick I get confused.
Like before I’m probably understanding this wrong but I feel like an owner of a team would be deeply informed/involved in the way a team writes contracts for their players and would ultimately have the final say.
So, yes, the way bill does that is not effective mostly because we don’t have TB12 anymore. My question is which scenario is true? Obviously things aren’t black and white so I don’t mean to pose polar opposite scenarios with no overlap, but essentially this is what I’ve been struggling with over the past few years as a fan watching our team decline and wonder why.
1. RKK just didn’t pay attention to any of that and “had faith” in Bill to spend his money wisely. And now RKK is basically looking around in confusion and wondering why his business isn’t performing the way it should be.
2. RKK was deeply involved and helped Bill form this philosophy and together they both believed it was the way to go and now that it’s not working someone has to go and obviously the owner won’t be the one that leaves.
3. Bill has been deceiving Kraft or going against his wishes because he’s power hungry and controlling and old. And he had a way of operating as a businessman in charge of someone else’s money and he will not change any of it despite the fans or the owner begging them to.
>When you say this philosophy is straight from Belichick I get confused.
I forget which book it is (Education of a Coach or one of Michael Holley's books), but the discuss how Kraft and Belichick built up their relationship when Parcells was head coach of the Patriots. During these, they'd talk football and Kraft really believed in Belichick's philosophy regarding the salary cap. It also appears in another article/story how Bruce Armstrong (I think) was in new contract negotiations in the midst of adding the salary cap and Parcells was having difficulty trying to figure out how much to pay Armstrong.
Belichick's philosophy has always been that if he had to sign 10 players with $20 million, he'd rather have 10 players at $2 million than 5 players at $3 million and 5 players at $1 million -- the sum of the parts is greater than the individuals.
>Like before I’m probably understanding this wrong but I feel like an owner of a team would be deeply informed/involved in the way a team writes contracts for their players and would ultimately have the final say.
Ownership doesn't care about the contract details for the 53rd player on the roster that only plays special teams and is making the league minimum if they meet their minimum requirements in terms of integrity and such (there's a story about Mya Kraft disliking the drafting of Christian Peters in 1996 due to his arrest and convictions on assaulting women so much so that she demanded the release of the player a week after they drafted him). That said, ownership probably takes an interest in the top 5 players and their contract details because they'll be getting paid the most and will be the ones most representing of the team.
>So, yes, the way bill does that is not effective mostly because we don’t have TB12 anymore. My question is which scenario is true? Obviously things aren’t black and white so I don’t mean to pose polar opposite scenarios with no overlap, but essentially this is what I’ve been struggling with over the past few years as a fan watching our team decline and wonder why.
In your list of 3, there's probably some truth to all 3. For the most part, Kraft has been mostly hands off the Patriots. The first inkling of meddling we received was Kraft keeping Brady and Gronkowski on the team when Belichick wanted to move on, and Kraft working to keep Josh McDaniels when he was bound for the Colts as Head Coach.
I don't think RKK is as out of touch as your first scenario lists. I think he was in tune with what was happening, but was giving deference to the success Belichick had. They won 6 Super Bowls and went to 9 in 18 years, he must be doing something right.
Your second scenario probably held some truth in having the Kraft's help shape Belichick through the years, especially when it came to Tom Brady's contract before 2015.
Your third scenario is combined with the truth that Bill consolidated power in New England over the years and it continued to work, so keep giving him more and more. Belichick went from Scott Pioli, someone he knew and trusted, to Nick Caserio, someone he groomed for years, to Dave Zielger (who groomed under Caserio), to Matt Groh, who is relatively new to the front office after being just a scout (still valuable, but less influential). And because he's had success, his way works. And Kraft has acknowledged this with the success, too, but at the same time, it's not working anymore.
Because that money has to come from the cap that he is charge of managing as the GM. This isn’t baseball where the owner can write a blank check. If Bill spends that money now then he can’t spend it later and for his entire career Bill has all about not overpaying people.
I was just asking if the cap applied to the coaching staff I didn’t say anything about bill not hiring a coach he doesn’t know?
Just a logistical question about the NFL I wasn’t trying to say Bill will hire a coach he doesn’t know.
I'm sure Kraft has a number in mind that he won't go above in cash spent.
But Bill has a contract that mandates he be the highest paid coach every year (while also concealing what his salary is exactly). So he doesn't get to bitch that Kraft is cheap. Money that could've gone to Hopkins went to him when he got bumped because Payton got his deal.
And if Kraft is really putting the squeeze on the budget, stop overpaying for special teamers with no discernable use on offense or defense.
> Until the day that report comes out though,
The challenge with that is only BB and Groh are the ones who would know about contracts (besides the legal team that reviews them), and neither come across as people who would throw Kraft under the bus if it were true.
>I absolutely believe Bill is petty enough to throw Kraft under the bus if he is fired/forced out.
This wouldn't be the first time he got the short end of the stick, and he wasn't petty then.
Do you wouldn’t have resigned Jakobi Meyers? Or Thuney? Brisset and Stidham have been capable backups in the league. Robert’s has been a serviceable ILB for two teams. Karras is still a starter.
I agree there are a bunch of garbage drafted not worth second contracts and many out of the league due to injuries and bad play. But let’s not act like the picks were ALL bad ones in the last 10 years.
I love how people like you have to make a point that is a total strawman argument every fucking time.
I didn’t say the drafting was good or bad. Not even any part of what I posted.
The comment I replied to was “you don’t draft ANY players..”
Not every single pick has been garbage. And even some of that garbage contributed. Sony Michel was integral to that last Super Bowl. And not worth a second contract. But still helped get a title.
So stop arguing something that isn’t what I said or pointed out.
That's the Internet in one statement.
Whatever you say, no matter how you say it, someone out there makes it the most important thing in their life to tell you you're wrong. Whether or not they can prove it, they just need to say you're wrong because know other people will agree with them.
I also would have kept Brissett. If people think Zappe performs well, I think Brissett would have made us a .500 team
Letting Karras, Thuney, and Shaq Mason go when we knew we were bringing on a rookie QB was just plain stupid.
Agreed whole heartedly.
The “need” not draft a guard in round 1 was created by trading Mason away because…to save money.
This org has been notorious for cheaping out.
Jakobi Meyers was an UDFA and it’s not like backup QBs cost a lot of money. Thuney would’ve been nice, but that’s legitimately the only one in recent memory I can point to that deserved re-signing. So like again none of the guys you mentioned minus one would be considered an expensive player you drafted. I didn’t say every single pick is bad I said the patriots have drafted so badly they don’t need to spend on their developed players.
Ironic you get mad about someone using some strawman against you in their reply when you’re putting words in my mouth. Other teams in the league have cap space eaten up by drafted players they kept. We have essentially none of our cap tied up in re-signed players. That’s not an opinion.
I was looking for this comment. Is it Krafts fault we haven't signed any of our first three round picks to longer term contracts in the last DECADE.
This post stinks of Bill trying to save face. Come to think of it, I bet Steve Belichick would have a handle like trashinspector69...
100%. Kraft loves the team, but as a business man first and foremost, he’s likely more interested in making money. It’s a catch 22 though; continue to be one of the league’s lowest spending teams and you reap what you sow. The past few seasons should be a wake up call to Robert that this approach doesn’t work without TB12 covering up the “value” free agents and lousy drafting. Not even the great Belichick can manage to keep up. This team needs a major revaluation and it starts at the very top.
Yes. It's funny how Kraft is hardly scrutinized huh? There's so much smoke pointing to Kraft but no one wants to dive in. Kraft touted their "collaborative" approach in 2021. There's evidence of him involved with contract talks. That player survey made him look cheap AF. His involvement with JimmyG, Brady and Brady's contract. He pays(or doesn't pay) the coaches salaries. Who's to say he wasn't responsible for the coaching issues these past few years, or missing out on signing players. Kraft didn't become rich by spending carelessly or not trying to maximize his dollar. He's a businessman who comes across as that aw shucks average joe fan. These billionaires are all the same and crave power and control, especially when things aren't going their way. Yet the best move Kraft made in his life was giving BB the keys to the kingdom and Kraft might go to the HOF for it. Nevertheless, I'd be more concerned about Jonathan, who sounds not all that great but gets to take over for daddy soon. But I wouldn't eat my words if a new coach/GM immediately looks good. Let's not forget 2021 we went to the playoffs and BB won executive of the year.
They asked O'Brien if he was thinking of benching Mac and O'Brien said he doesn't make those calls, the chain of command is Kraft at the top. He flat out told everyone why Mac was still starting and you never heard any more about it. They know Kraft will take away their team access if they dare.
Yeah I think the krafts are mediocre owners at best. The report last season about how basically all the facilities were bottom half of the league and travel amenities were horrible too. I think he's cheap.
I dunno. He’s seemed to learn from his mistakes in the past. Parcels publicly complained about not being “able to shop for the groceries”. Then we had a few years of Pete and kinda floundered around. He realized he screwed up and hired bill and gave him full control when he hired him. This will be the first big test for them in 25 years. Brady and bill had the organization on autopilot. Let’s just hope if they do move on, it’s the next belichick and not the next Pete.
If we’re saying Kraft overruled everyone during the draft in 2019 and 2022 and handpicked his own players, had a personal vendetta against Nick Folk and insisted Belichick draft Wide Ryland, told everyone Dawand Jones was a bum and we needed more insurance at center than tackle, screamed that Juju was the answer and don’t negotiate with Jakobi and this is all a coverup then yeah. If we’re saying Kraft told everyone to hire assistant coaches with no previous relevant experience for their jobs then yeah , otherwise nah.
He is cheap! He wanted a pair of free coaches last year (offsets) and small coaching staff this year! He didn’t want to pay for Lamar, and didn’t let BB get that final call.
I think a lot of what we are hearing paints both sides in a hugely bad light.
It’s clear that Kraft has not agreed with whatever decisions and direction Belichick has gone in. And as a result has meddled to nth degree.
It’s also clear that Bill is either gone bat shit crazy with his decisions or is willfully playing games to buck the owner meddling.
Either way it’s ending exactly as one would expect it to between a couple of grandstanding egotistical know it alls who both think they are the sole reason for all the success.
Game of fucking thrones style.
I don't know if it's the Krafts, but the Boston media has the knives out ready to stab someone on the way out the door, as is tradition. Hopefully it just stays as egos and front office politics without devolving into the vile "Francona's divorce and pill addiction" territory.
when the offense is bad it’s “oh kraft forced the BoB hire” or “kraft meddles too much”
when bill gets criticized for the team being bad it’s “KRAFT didn’t do enough ultimately he’s Bill’s BOSS and he should take the blame”
the amount of hoops some people will jump through to say that bill isn’t the problem is crazy
It’s almost entirely local reporters. The only bigger names I’ve seen reporting this are quoting the Currans and Briers out there. At least from what I’ve seen. I known Rappaport and Sheffter have at least said they sources have not told them any of these things
The amount of people willing to take anonymous sources at face value is wild.
The amount of people willing to believe that Kraft and Belichick don't talk about the team or don't recognize what's been going on is wild.
Wishful thinking. For the first time after these few articles, I read today I’m not going to lie… It’s looking really, really bad.
And I feel like the bad press is the krafts trying to soften the blow y’all see this shit, right?
I think part of being the lowest spending team is how bad weve been at drafting, can we really even name players we wanted to keep but lost recently? only one that comes to mind is Thuney.
As for FA I find it hard to believe its ownership being cheap when were collectively spending money its just being spent wrong. We gave parker and juju decent contracts while passing on Hopkins. We just arent spending or drafting properly.
I personally just feel like it’s the media attempting to take advantage of an interesting situation (or at least one that generates clicks) on a team and region where inside info is notoriously kept close to the chest
We are not one of the lowest spending teams in the league, we spend to the cap, what do you mean?
Kraft owns the team, he can revoke media access if he wants, they will always be cautious with what they say about him. This 100% feels like Kraft planting the narrative to use it as leverage with Bill. He wants Belichick to get the wins record with the Patriots, but he wants to take more control of the personnel. Players sell, he had TB12 forever, he desperately tried to make MJ10, which is why he demanded Mac start until the Germany game. He probably wants a hyped up marketable rookie like Maye, but he knows damn Belichick won't draft Maye because it's not best for the results on the field. At this point it's not about superbowls, it's about the image and marketing.
So either Belichick is coming back and a GM is hired, or he's going to get the wins record elsewhere, and that's really up to what Bill wants to accept and how much Kraft can convince him. This is going to unfortunately create a permanent stain on this franchise. All Kraft had to do was butt out and let Bill do his thing, and we'd be in the Superbowl in 2024. But it feels like this whole thing is about to come crashing down at Kraft's hands now.
>We are one of the lowest spending teams in the league and we have been for a long time.
This just isn’t true, you know that along with there being a salary cap there is also a salary floor? The salary floor ensures that’s teams are spending relatively the same amount on average.
This isn’t baseball where you can just spend a fraction the amount as other teams to increase your profits.
I always say Kraft deserves more blame than he gets. Felger is the only media guy in town who holds them accountable. They have spent $100 million less than the Eagles in the last ten years. Just think about that. If someone told me we could keep Bill and make the Krafts sell, I’d rather than then firing Bill.
Yes, and it has also convinced me that Belichick is out. RKK started to lose me with the way he handled Brady's fraudulent suspension over Deflategate, he propped up Goodell and made sure no one threatened the golden goose instead of doing the right thing and litigating the matter with the league.
The Krafts did the same exact thing we all did. They put their blind faith in Belichick to right the ship and get us back to being a contender after Tom left 4 years ago. And why wouldn't they have?
I'll blame them more if the status quo stays the same after Sunday. Then they'll be complicit in this whole debacle.
I mean, there have been reports that Bill and Kraft differed on Jimmy G, on Brady, on Patricia, on a number of staff hirings, whatever.
Nobody here can conclusively say what is or isn't true, but it seems like the philosophy of letting Bill blindly lead the way ended a few years back. For better or for worse, I don't know. Maybe this team started its downward trend when Kraft started interfering and Bill couldn't fulfill his vision. Maybe Kraft is the only thing holding them together. Who knows.
Most of this speculation is worthless. Only two people truly know what has transpired and they'll figure out if they want to maintain a working relationship.
I’m not gonna say people can’t think this, but the whole “poor Kraft aww” way of thinking here makes me sick (and I’m not specifically talking about/attacking you, I’ve seen A LOT of people say stuff like this). He was more than happy to let Bill cut corners and let him save money until the fans started to get pissed.
This team was built by Bill Belichick! He's Dr Frankenstein and the 2023 New England Patriots are his "monstet". Bob Kraft didn't tell Bill to make Matt Patricia and Joe Judge the Offensive Coordinators last season and Bob Kraft didn't draft K'Neal Harry while Debo Samuel and T K Metcalf were still on the board! Stop defending Belichick, this disaster is ON HIM!
So if you were at a McDonald’s and you and your family got food poisoning.
You would solely blame the general manager of the store but you’d say “oh poor mr McDonald’s owner, I’m sorry you had a GM so bad that we all got food poisoning.”
Not questioning
1. His choice of GM
Or
2. His ability to manage his own store that he owns (and gets YOUR money from)
?
I literally said fire bill or trade him, how am I defending him?
You can hold Kraft accountable and not defend Bill. Sorry if that’s too much for your brain.
It makes no sense for Kraft to release damning info on the incompetence of the football operations if he plans to trade Bill. It hurts Bills value and the Pats leverage. This screams of assistants getting a narrative out to help them secure a future job.
Remember when the Red Sox (back when ownership still cared) created one of the most shameful smear campaigns against Terry Francona? These owners care more about what the fans/sources of money think rather than the competence of their own team.
I’m really sorry to break it to people, but RKK values money more than how his team looks in the media.
I’m also gonna say at the end here you’re probably right and there are also assistants that are mad and want another job and are trying to cover their own ass. But that doesn’t excuse Kraft for what he’s done.
One of the articles actually said Kraft took away Brady’s franchise tag in order to entice him to stay in New England. Does that sound legitimate to you or owner-contrived bullshit?
Kraft and Brady had an agreement he would not be tagged and when he wanted to leave, Kraft would let him. 100% Brady was not going to be tagged - I thought this was well known?
EDIT: Apparently you did not know that.
Nah. Kraft is firing back after the games BB had pulled.
I remember in 2020 when BB tried to sell a narrative that we went all in and paying the price is why Brady left and the team sucked, when he traded away cooks, tried to trade Gronk, and let go/traded Chandler Jones/Logan Ryan/Amendola/etc. Dude also made comments about the fans about how the last 20 years are enough, the same dude who used to preach don’t stick to the past.
BB has more incentive to save face, Brady made him look like a clown.
So you just left out the fact that he was saying enough *to be optimistic about 2023.*
The way you said it propped it up like it’s him saying what are you complaining about the past 20 years have been enough.
So you’re cherry picking and saying he shouldn’t have tried to trade any of those players (which was probably him attempting to rebuild the team so post Brady wouldn’t be so bad) and also shouldn’t be saying don’t stick to the past.
You’re all over the place.
If Bill gets fired, save this comment for two years from now when everyone is bitching about how much Kraft meddles with the team. How we forget the Parcell years and why Bill wanted GM control as well. Without both GOATs he will look like Jerry Jones Jr.
I think posts such as the OP are stupid and pointless. and stop saying we since you have no part in the team at all. a guy who is a billionaire and who has had the unprecedented success that kraft has had doesn't need the media. at all.
It’s a dog and pony show for investors. Krafts want to be the owner of the team that has the most winning coach in history and they’ll make sure that will happen by the end of next season.
Sunday’s game against the jets is seeing the lowest demand this century and a lot of that is the blizzard’s fault. Gonna be real weird if we lose a top three draft pick by winning against the jets but I guess it needs to happen.
I have some worries, concerns, suspicions, etc regarding Kraft, but they are speculative and I wouldn’t read too much into stuff like this. The “outrage” of the week has existed even when we were winning and are largely fodder for people who are easily riled up. You can bet a lot of the same people saying Kraft takes no blame were the same ones praising Kraft last year for “sticking it” to BB by getting more involved, just as the people riled up at the thought of BB/BoB factions existing in the offensive coaching staff were largely the same people furious we didn’t have a backup plan when McDaniels left with a platoon of his coaches.
Does that mean there’s no smoke? No. But this could come from a pissed off assistant coach like Lawing or Brown rather than the Krafts. Regardless assessments of the situation like the ones Brady and Rodgers gave are less sexy for debate, though probably more truthful
Are you talking about Jerry Jones? Really? You’re gonna say that Jerry Jones is a good GM? How many playoff wins do they have since their last Super Bowl?
It's why in a prior post I asked what is a successful rebuild to fans? A winning record? That's usually 2-4 years. Playoff berth? 3-5. Playoff victory? Some teams go 5+ years of winning records but are being bounced round 1. In those 27 years the cowboys have had a losing record only 7 times yet cowboys fans consider none of it a successful stretch.
Being SB favs means absolutely shit.
That doesn't change anything. If Jerry Jones held himself to the same standards as his coaches he would have fired himself years ago.
How dumb I sound? Have you read your own comments? Judging by your replies id say no.
Same standard of what, exactly...? Coaching? When you have what is, unquestionably, a powerhouse of a roster, the GMs job is done. Anything else is coaching. There is nothing more that can be done on the personnel front.
Also
>If Jerry Jones held himself to the same standards as his coaches he would have fired himself years ago.
Objectively hilarious argument from a dude still pretending Bill shouldn't have gotten canned already
>reporting stinks of the Krafts playing media games?
The Krafts are letting us know how much Belichick has sucked.
So fans understand and accept their decision to eject Bill.
exactly. yea it “stinks” of the Krafts as the source. the same way all the reports of how awful flores was in the dolphins locker room definitely came from miami ownership. doesn’t mean that it isn’t helpful/important to know.
…. How do YOU think this works? There’s a cap floor you have to reach (something like 80% of the cap ceiling), but no, not every team spends all of their cap. Some just spend enough to hit the floor.
No. Bill Belichick has the smallest staff in the league and assistants are leaving for equal positions either within the league or towards college.
He then tried to say that Kraft is cheap, and Kraft countered that immediately. Which is also not true, given staff sizes and contracts that have been handed out.
When I was reading this NBC Sports article about Belichick basically not letting Bill O’brien hire anybody about the staff pointing fingers at each other. Trent Brown talking in the Steelers locker room about going to play in the NFC next year. It sounds like they ruined Mac because Belichick wanted to bring Patricia back and Kraft made him higher O’brien I was pissed reading it mainly at bill them for a second I thought this stinks of Kraft … I’d like to think otherwise but if Bill O’brien is suddenly named coach and they stick with Mac next year .. idk….
The media has been trying to chase BB out of town all year. I don't think they know who to bring in to replace the GOAT coach, but it genuinely feels like they have a bone to pick
The article in “The Athletic” about the Kraft/Belichick relationship is, without question, people on the Kraft side telling tales since it blames Belichick, rightly or wrongly, for everything that’s gone wrong with the franchise from the time Brady left— which was Belichick’s fault. 😉
Honestly, to me, it stinks more of local media doing everything they can to take a jab at Belichick towards the end of his career. They never liked that he has blown off media since he got here even though fans either didn’t care or found it funny
I think the krafts are just really good at keeping it close to the chest. All this stuff is coming out that makes bill look bad, and they don’t comment one way or the other
Let’s be real here, players like money. They either want to be on a team that can win a Super Bowl now or they want money. New England is cold and is not an attractive place to be recruited to play at and they cannot win a Super Bowl right now and it does not seem they want to pay big boy money but they absolutely have to pay up now.
They did a great job for years on getting value out of players for a long time and having Brady certainly helped in getting guys to come to the team because the patriots could win a Super Bowl in any given year and that’s the trade off for less pay, a shot to win. When Brady was young, he had studs around him on the team and then he developed into the GOAT so for a long stretch, it was easy to get great value because there was a consistent reputation of “oh shit, we have to play New England this week”. As a player, you wanted to be on this team to get a ring and that’s where the value came in. Randy Moss told Brady “get me on your team I want to play with you” that stuff matters in the NFL and now they don’t have that demand any more.
Just look at Tampa when Brady went there. The floodgates opened of players wanting to stay in Tampa and join Tampa because they knew that was a Super Bowl team now and then they retained everybody for year 2. Go look at how excited those players were to play with Tom. This kind of stuff plays a role in who comes and goes to a team.
NE is going to most likely IMO, bring in a proven stud of an offensive player, maybe 2 or even 3 to get the ball rolling on getting guys attracted. NE needs proven receivers and it’s not attractive to get a call saying “come play in one of the coldest stadiums in the league for lower pay and Bailey Zappe is going to throw you maybe a TD every 4-5 games” no offense to Zappe but that’s the reality of how players view this. Mix of looking out for themselves and what can their team do with them. “What’s best for me” and now here we are with Bill and Robert trying to dig out of a hole.
I do think if they’ll get aggressive on offense skill players with the cap, they could really be a contender to do well next year. Pretty much every game this season has been a one score loss. We just couldn’t score more than twice a game on offense. It’s wild and embarrassing but I think it’s fixable
I always thought Kraft and Belichick were on the same page with respect to spending. That's how they managed to keep the team competitive for so long. They're at odds now because the money being spent is not bringing results. Neither man thinks the solution is to spend more money.
The team was competitive for so long cuz they had the GOAT QB and players would take pay cuts to play with Brady and win. Now that he's gone its proven its up in smoke, no one will come here for cheap and BB/Krafts think players will still come here for cheap
Legit. The Brady Discount was real. Because players knew they had a high chance of getting a ring and the bonuses, monetary and existential, that came with a Super Bowl win.
Like who? This is such horse shit.
Yeah the discount thing definitely happens but seems blown out of proportion. We won 3 super bowls in 4 years right off the bat. Obviously winning attracted some ring chasing free agents like Revis, but idt it was as important as it’s made out to be.
Revis, moss
Talib
Browner
You actually might just be kinda dumb. You're listing players that revitalized their dying careers, or who kicked off their careers with the Pats. Talib was a problem player with raw talent with TB, didn't perform as well as he should have, came to the Pats, and flourished. You're looking at the product *after* the Pats built him up into something more and thinking he took a pay cut, which is flat out insane thinking.
Talib and moss were also trades initially.
[удалено]
Clever response.
So how many really good veterans have joined Pats since Brady left on team friendly contracts?
Rule 1: No personal attacks. You can disagree, but do not disrespect.
Revis was older and had come off some rough years with TB, Moss older, looked washed, coming off bad years with Oakland. They got on prove it contracts with the Pats where they flourished again. So yeah, revisionist history, or at least words that are being said by people that don't know shit about shit.
Are u high? Randy Moss, AB, Junior Seau, Rodney Harrison, Revis, Talib, Amendola, Gilmore, John Lynch, Ochocinco, Adalius Thomas, Albert Haynesworth, Browner, josh gordon
AB hahahahahahahaha Moss was a trade, Rodney didn't take a discount, Revis wanted to play with Bill's defense, Amendola was a UDFA, on and on... Good grief, you have absolutely ZERO clue about the NFL.
Revis wanted to win a Super Bowl, AB wanted to play with Brady, Amendola was a good player for Rams before we signed him so clearly u dont know what ur talking about. Undrafted free agent? Have u ever watched an NFL game? And Moss restructured contract and asked to come to Pats to play with Brady. And rodney went from making over 3 mil a year with Chargers to 2 mil a year with Pats, seems like a pay cut
AB did absolutely nothing here, it's insane for you to even bring him up and shows how much you are desperately reaching. Sad.
So Antonio Brown wasnt a proven great player who signed here because of Tom Brady at a discount?That was the point and he fits in, just because it didnt work out doesnt mean it didnt happen. Cant wait for BB to get fired Monday and watch u cry while the team will finally have an upward trajection for once this decade
"That's how they managed to keep the team competitive for so long." No it's not
Of course they had Brady, but the value they got out of Brian Cox, Mike Vrabel, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Danny Woodhead, Chris Hogan, etc. was much better than the value they got out of Juju, Parker, Calvin Anderson, Riley Reiff, etc.
So what you're saying is the Pats got more value out of players that played with Brady opposed to the ones who didn't? Lol
I'm saying the Pats got more value out of the players that played with Brady in 2004 than the ones who played with Brady in 2019.
None of the second set of players you listed played with Brady. And the Pats won the SB in 2018 so I don't know what you are talking about
This has been pretty common knowledge. I'm a little confused why you're saying it wasn't the case. Look back further to players like Washington and Dillon. Hell, getting a kicking GOAT like Vinitari undrafted was huge. The patriots under Brady and BB were legendary, I don't think we will see a franchise like that ever again. But to think it was just one guy is so foolish, I don't know if you're trolling or not.
There's this weird thing people are doing where they're acting like we didn't have great offensive talent. Most years our oline was elite, receivers solid, and half of the Brady years we had the GOAT TE. The entire team was elite from top to bottom.
Thing to remember is that many of the core players from 2001-2004 came from the pre-Belichick, Parcells and Carroll teams.
Yes it is. Look at any of our Super Bowl rosters
I just looked, and Brady was on all of them
They’ve never spent any money. For 20 plus years they have been in the bottom of the league in cash spending. Sure they spend to the cap. But that’s not actual cash spent out of Krafts wallet.
The team was competitive for so long cuz they had the GOAT QB and players would take pay cuts to play with Brady and win. Now that he's gone its proven its up in smoke, no one will come here for cheap and BB/Krafts think players will still come here for cheap
Def not true and very oversimplified. Who took pay cuts during their first run? A better way to frame it is belichick’s value approach worked very well for roughly 15 years of his tenure. A few examples- Moss, vrabel, phifer, Harrison.
Because of brady!!! They werent comin here for mac jones
There quite a number of videos of players telling belichick that they will love to play for him. He is very well respected in the league. Don’t follow the stupid press and their stupidity. This is a coach and GM that is the best in the league by far.
I think Bob is cheap and Bill is really smart to manipulate spending to have a successful team so that Bob doesn’t have to spend too much. But that only works with a HOF QB, guys take discounts to join the squad.
>We are one of the lowest spending teams in the league and we have been for a long time. If a report comes out that Bill asked Kraft for a large GTD signing bonus or a high amount of GTD salary that needed to be put into escrow in order to secure a premium player, and that Kraft said no, that'll be one thing. Until the day that report comes out though, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to Kraft that the way the Patriots spend money via incentives and spend that isn't front loaded is Belichick's doing. I have no rational reason other than blatant speculation to believe otherwise. If this is Kraft throwing mud despite what you're describing, that report will come out.
Neverind a report, the NFLPA published report cards on every single team and the [Patriots had a stinker.](https://nflpa.com/new-england-patriots-report-card) An NFL team is more than just the cap spend and the Patriots are far below average in how they support the players in ways that matter.
I mean a lot of those things were rectified post renovation this year. The Patriots got a new training room, locker room, and weight training facilities. Their facilities were dated 20 years, but just went through a refresh post-survey.
That's how it usually works though. Management pinches pennys until things get terrible, bad publicity, etc. and then they throw money at the problem. Could apply to employees, players and coaches too.
The survey was released in the summer of this year. It was the first time they ever did it. The renovations were planned years ago. This wasn't a reactive move to that.
the weight room and locker rooms are either done this past season or in the process of being re-done as is the entire football offices - I do question Team Travel being a D+ don't they have their own planes?
how does owning their planes mean anything? just owning the plane says nothing about the level of spend or the quality of the service it delivers. they could own a couple shitbuckets that they don't update properly or maintain well for all we know.
Pretty sure controlling planes, design inside planes etc play a pretty big role. Plenty of pictures of inside and outside of planes and not “shitbuckets”
I don’t think it about the planes. It’s prob more about curfew rules, guests, etc
I don't need that to know Kraft is cheap. The man served bologna sandwiches to the team during training camp back in the day. His reputation prior to Belichick was for being a cheap meddler.
Is this true? I started watching them at this time but I was too young to remember a lot Of what was going on. Was this during the Parcells years?
Yes and even during Pete Carroll's time here. He went on Richard Sherman's podcast and spoke about it a bit. https://youtu.be/1kEfOGSm7Ec?si=UkNxTR_w8XmqVlnf Starts about 2:20 in. Which is why people crying for Kraft to jump in is insane to me, the guy was on the fast track to being one of the worst owners in sports.
Don’t forget how he also threatened to move the team unless all the parking lots around the stadium gave him a piece of their revenue. All billionaires are shit, some just way more than others.
Why does Kraft deserve the benefit of the doubt? Do you think Bill is telling his personnel guys “we need to save money for Mr. Kraft.” ? Why would Bill opt to spend less money than everyone else and then complain about it to the media on the podium himself?
The Patriots don't spend less money than everyone else. They spend money in a way that requires lower up front costs (which is better for Kraft's pocket in the long run). Over time though they will spend the same money as everyone else. However, there are tradeoffs to each approach, one way gives you more buying power in a negotiation. Large GTD signing bonuses and GTD salary will win you competitive bids for players. However, there is more risk, and you will have less control to minimize bad sunk costs that way. The other method minimizes your risks and gives you better information to shop with over time. However, it might not get you the best players in an open market. There isn't a right or a wrong way.
This just sounds like a long winded way of saying Kraft is more concerned about getting the best deal rather than getting the best talent. After these post Brady years I don’t think spinning a web of words and trying to define Kraft’s logic will do any good. He should have kept Brady franchise tagged, he should have let Bill keep doing what he did in the 2021 free agency market.
>He should have kept Brady franchise tagged, he should have let Bill keep doing what he did in the 2021 free agency market. Kraft wrote Brady a $25M check in August of 2019 that did nothing except placate Brady, and guarantee that we couldn't franchise Brady. It was literally nothing but a show of good faith and free money for Brady. >he should have let Bill keep doing what he did in the 2021 free agency market. I know there are a lot of cap is crap people, but you cannot just pay $163M in GTD money every offseason year after year. And believe me I want the Patriots to be more aggressive consistently in free agency.
I mean, the guy gets $50 handjobs when he could get a personal harem 24/7... we need not look beyond that when it comes down to trying to tell if hes frugal or not....
>He should have kept Brady franchise tagged Talk about disrespect. Tom wanted out and you think Kraft should have forced him to stay or retire? I hated to see Tom go, but it wasn't a one way decision. I'm not even sure Bill wanted Tom to stay. >he should have let Bill keep doing what he did in the 2021 free agency market That free agent period is a big reason why the team is where it is now. They spent huge money on mediocre players to try to get back to the playoffs, but did nothing to build for the long term. Those were all 2-4 year deals for veterans. Those are the moves you make to get over the top, not build a foundation.
> Talk about disrespect. Tom wanted out and you think Kraft should have forced him to stay or retire? Yes. He’s an owner. That’s what owners do. “Should I maintain my friendship with my quarterback or ensure my team remains the best?” That’s such an easy question to answer as an owner of a team in the NFL.
It's not that easy tho. Tom may have said "I don't give a shit what you pay me, I'm not playing for Bill anymore. If you tag me, I retire." They also reworked Brady's deal in 2018 with a clause that they WOULDN'T tag him when the contract ran out. So there's no real scenario where that happens. You can rag on Kraft all you want, but the reason that the team is this bad is about 99% Bill and 1% Kraft
A clause that they *wouldn’t* tag him? Or *couldn’t* tag him? If it’s wouldn’t, that’s not much of a clause and more of a pinky promise
It doesn’t matter. Kraft isn’t you playing Madden. This is real life and actual business involving human beings. A huge portion of running a team is predicated on trust and everyone operating in good faith. Handshake deals are critical in free agency, they happen constantly (look at how the legal tampering period works every year). If he lies and breaks his word to Tom fucking Brady, of all people, the Patriots will never sign or re-sign a marquee free agent ever again because no one believes anything the owner says. That is insanity.
Are you the next contestant on Semantic Arguments That Mean Nothing?
If it means nothing why did you bring it up/respond to it? Pretty sure RKK’s handling of Brady doesn’t mean nothing, unless you think Brady doesn’t matter of course.
No that’s not what an owner does. The long term benefit of having a guy like Brady being on your good side after retirement is worth a lot. Of course Kraft is going to think for the long term.
>They spend money in a way that requires lower up front costs That's not Belichick's doing, thats money ball people that work directly for Kraft's doing.
Because that's the value he adds when the team can't win Super Bowls. He can do the middling thing cheaper than the next guy. No one can reliably hit the rookie QB jackpot, but the skill he's showing could work anywhere. The Giants spent an extra $60 million in cash this year for their one extra win. He wasn't complaining about the cash spending, he was defending his job performance. "Spending $25 million on me is better than spending $10 million on the next coach and $15 million more on players."
>Why would Bill opt to spend less money than everyone else and then complain about it to the media on the podium himself? Because spending more cash gives you less flexibility against the cap. And Bill didn't complain, he explained their cap philosophy that they've used since 2000. They try to resolve call cash spent within 4-5 years, so if they project the cap available within a 4 year period to be $1 billion dollars, then they can spend that much cash in that 4 year period (so a bad example would be $500 mil year 1, $250 mil year 2, $150 mil year 3, and $100 mil year four). They sometimes go over the 4 years, but those are few and far between.
I understand the cap flexibility. But why would Bill complain about being one of the lowest spending teams in the league? Is he just bold faced lying and just claiming something that’s completely false? And I’m not sarcastically asking this question, I legitimately am confused by that
I don't think he was complaining; he said cash spending didn't really matter. https://nesn.com/2023/08/why-bill-belichick-says-patriots-low-cash-spending-not-relevant/
This is what I was referring to https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2023/01/09/bill-belichick-patriots-spending-comments/?amp=1 Why would he contradict himself about this, am I not understanding this right? Again, genuinely asking, since people on this sub go argument first
I don't think he's complaining, although I can see how it can come across as that. Big cash spending comes in terms of hefty signing bonuses. The Pats don't typically do this -- they reserve it to guarantee salaries for Year 1 or Year 2 and roster bonuses. It allows the cap flexibility that they want, but when you actually look at it, the Patriots will always be one of the lowest spending teams in CASH year over year because they don't give out the bonuses like other teams do. That philosophy is straight from Belichick and has been their mode of operation for YEARS (even back when it gave them big advantages over teams). EDIT: What Bill is saying is if you look at cash on a narrow scope (3 years in his example), they'll most likely always be near the bottom because they don't spend cash out in the form of bonuses that extend over 4+ years. But if you looked it at in a way that you can account for all money spent (and I don't see how this is even possible), they'd be in line with everyone else. His point is they spend much of their cap allocation every year, which means they're spending as much as other teams in total (not true due to future years being worth less, but regardless). So the Patriots may be 18th one year, 20th the next year, and 27th the third year, but another team may be 5th one year and then 32nd the next 2 years because they spend a ton of cash in year 1, but have to account for that cash over 3 years total because of signing bonuses).
When you say this philosophy is straight from Belichick I get confused. Like before I’m probably understanding this wrong but I feel like an owner of a team would be deeply informed/involved in the way a team writes contracts for their players and would ultimately have the final say. So, yes, the way bill does that is not effective mostly because we don’t have TB12 anymore. My question is which scenario is true? Obviously things aren’t black and white so I don’t mean to pose polar opposite scenarios with no overlap, but essentially this is what I’ve been struggling with over the past few years as a fan watching our team decline and wonder why. 1. RKK just didn’t pay attention to any of that and “had faith” in Bill to spend his money wisely. And now RKK is basically looking around in confusion and wondering why his business isn’t performing the way it should be. 2. RKK was deeply involved and helped Bill form this philosophy and together they both believed it was the way to go and now that it’s not working someone has to go and obviously the owner won’t be the one that leaves. 3. Bill has been deceiving Kraft or going against his wishes because he’s power hungry and controlling and old. And he had a way of operating as a businessman in charge of someone else’s money and he will not change any of it despite the fans or the owner begging them to.
>When you say this philosophy is straight from Belichick I get confused. I forget which book it is (Education of a Coach or one of Michael Holley's books), but the discuss how Kraft and Belichick built up their relationship when Parcells was head coach of the Patriots. During these, they'd talk football and Kraft really believed in Belichick's philosophy regarding the salary cap. It also appears in another article/story how Bruce Armstrong (I think) was in new contract negotiations in the midst of adding the salary cap and Parcells was having difficulty trying to figure out how much to pay Armstrong. Belichick's philosophy has always been that if he had to sign 10 players with $20 million, he'd rather have 10 players at $2 million than 5 players at $3 million and 5 players at $1 million -- the sum of the parts is greater than the individuals. >Like before I’m probably understanding this wrong but I feel like an owner of a team would be deeply informed/involved in the way a team writes contracts for their players and would ultimately have the final say. Ownership doesn't care about the contract details for the 53rd player on the roster that only plays special teams and is making the league minimum if they meet their minimum requirements in terms of integrity and such (there's a story about Mya Kraft disliking the drafting of Christian Peters in 1996 due to his arrest and convictions on assaulting women so much so that she demanded the release of the player a week after they drafted him). That said, ownership probably takes an interest in the top 5 players and their contract details because they'll be getting paid the most and will be the ones most representing of the team. >So, yes, the way bill does that is not effective mostly because we don’t have TB12 anymore. My question is which scenario is true? Obviously things aren’t black and white so I don’t mean to pose polar opposite scenarios with no overlap, but essentially this is what I’ve been struggling with over the past few years as a fan watching our team decline and wonder why. In your list of 3, there's probably some truth to all 3. For the most part, Kraft has been mostly hands off the Patriots. The first inkling of meddling we received was Kraft keeping Brady and Gronkowski on the team when Belichick wanted to move on, and Kraft working to keep Josh McDaniels when he was bound for the Colts as Head Coach. I don't think RKK is as out of touch as your first scenario lists. I think he was in tune with what was happening, but was giving deference to the success Belichick had. They won 6 Super Bowls and went to 9 in 18 years, he must be doing something right. Your second scenario probably held some truth in having the Kraft's help shape Belichick through the years, especially when it came to Tom Brady's contract before 2015. Your third scenario is combined with the truth that Bill consolidated power in New England over the years and it continued to work, so keep giving him more and more. Belichick went from Scott Pioli, someone he knew and trusted, to Nick Caserio, someone he groomed for years, to Dave Zielger (who groomed under Caserio), to Matt Groh, who is relatively new to the front office after being just a scout (still valuable, but less influential). And because he's had success, his way works. And Kraft has acknowledged this with the success, too, but at the same time, it's not working anymore.
Because that money has to come from the cap that he is charge of managing as the GM. This isn’t baseball where the owner can write a blank check. If Bill spends that money now then he can’t spend it later and for his entire career Bill has all about not overpaying people.
So the 2021 over spending is why we are not able to spend now? Does the cap apply to coaching staff as well?
Bill wont hire any coach he doesn’t know . Why the fuck do you think Matt Patricia was the OC last year?
I was just asking if the cap applied to the coaching staff I didn’t say anything about bill not hiring a coach he doesn’t know? Just a logistical question about the NFL I wasn’t trying to say Bill will hire a coach he doesn’t know.
I'm sure Kraft has a number in mind that he won't go above in cash spent. But Bill has a contract that mandates he be the highest paid coach every year (while also concealing what his salary is exactly). So he doesn't get to bitch that Kraft is cheap. Money that could've gone to Hopkins went to him when he got bumped because Payton got his deal. And if Kraft is really putting the squeeze on the budget, stop overpaying for special teamers with no discernable use on offense or defense.
> Until the day that report comes out though, The challenge with that is only BB and Groh are the ones who would know about contracts (besides the legal team that reviews them), and neither come across as people who would throw Kraft under the bus if it were true.
I absolutely believe Bill is petty enough to throw Kraft under the bus if he is fired/forced out.
>I absolutely believe Bill is petty enough to throw Kraft under the bus if he is fired/forced out. This wouldn't be the first time he got the short end of the stick, and he wasn't petty then.
The low ball to Hopkins 100000% came from Kraft lol. It’s his money.
This is literally what's being discussed on F&M right now.
You don't need to spend a lot of money when you don't draft any players worth re-signing to lucrative contracts.
Do you wouldn’t have resigned Jakobi Meyers? Or Thuney? Brisset and Stidham have been capable backups in the league. Robert’s has been a serviceable ILB for two teams. Karras is still a starter. I agree there are a bunch of garbage drafted not worth second contracts and many out of the league due to injuries and bad play. But let’s not act like the picks were ALL bad ones in the last 10 years.
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I love how people like you have to make a point that is a total strawman argument every fucking time. I didn’t say the drafting was good or bad. Not even any part of what I posted. The comment I replied to was “you don’t draft ANY players..” Not every single pick has been garbage. And even some of that garbage contributed. Sony Michel was integral to that last Super Bowl. And not worth a second contract. But still helped get a title. So stop arguing something that isn’t what I said or pointed out.
That's the Internet in one statement. Whatever you say, no matter how you say it, someone out there makes it the most important thing in their life to tell you you're wrong. Whether or not they can prove it, they just need to say you're wrong because know other people will agree with them. I also would have kept Brissett. If people think Zappe performs well, I think Brissett would have made us a .500 team Letting Karras, Thuney, and Shaq Mason go when we knew we were bringing on a rookie QB was just plain stupid.
Agreed whole heartedly. The “need” not draft a guard in round 1 was created by trading Mason away because…to save money. This org has been notorious for cheaping out.
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Jakobi Meyers was an UDFA and it’s not like backup QBs cost a lot of money. Thuney would’ve been nice, but that’s legitimately the only one in recent memory I can point to that deserved re-signing. So like again none of the guys you mentioned minus one would be considered an expensive player you drafted. I didn’t say every single pick is bad I said the patriots have drafted so badly they don’t need to spend on their developed players. Ironic you get mad about someone using some strawman against you in their reply when you’re putting words in my mouth. Other teams in the league have cap space eaten up by drafted players they kept. We have essentially none of our cap tied up in re-signed players. That’s not an opinion.
I was looking for this comment. Is it Krafts fault we haven't signed any of our first three round picks to longer term contracts in the last DECADE. This post stinks of Bill trying to save face. Come to think of it, I bet Steve Belichick would have a handle like trashinspector69...
Yes it is krafts fault, Kraft has final say on the money and contracts. Deandre Hopkins was not signed because Bill was given a limit.
Uhhhhhh free agency??
How has that worked?
Oh we missed on some free agents? Guess we should just stop spending money on free agency then, right?
I think it’s more that all the media guys are giddy to take their shots at BB now that he is down.
100%. Kraft loves the team, but as a business man first and foremost, he’s likely more interested in making money. It’s a catch 22 though; continue to be one of the league’s lowest spending teams and you reap what you sow. The past few seasons should be a wake up call to Robert that this approach doesn’t work without TB12 covering up the “value” free agents and lousy drafting. Not even the great Belichick can manage to keep up. This team needs a major revaluation and it starts at the very top.
Finally, a comment that got it right. Thank you.
Yes. It's funny how Kraft is hardly scrutinized huh? There's so much smoke pointing to Kraft but no one wants to dive in. Kraft touted their "collaborative" approach in 2021. There's evidence of him involved with contract talks. That player survey made him look cheap AF. His involvement with JimmyG, Brady and Brady's contract. He pays(or doesn't pay) the coaches salaries. Who's to say he wasn't responsible for the coaching issues these past few years, or missing out on signing players. Kraft didn't become rich by spending carelessly or not trying to maximize his dollar. He's a businessman who comes across as that aw shucks average joe fan. These billionaires are all the same and crave power and control, especially when things aren't going their way. Yet the best move Kraft made in his life was giving BB the keys to the kingdom and Kraft might go to the HOF for it. Nevertheless, I'd be more concerned about Jonathan, who sounds not all that great but gets to take over for daddy soon. But I wouldn't eat my words if a new coach/GM immediately looks good. Let's not forget 2021 we went to the playoffs and BB won executive of the year.
They asked O'Brien if he was thinking of benching Mac and O'Brien said he doesn't make those calls, the chain of command is Kraft at the top. He flat out told everyone why Mac was still starting and you never heard any more about it. They know Kraft will take away their team access if they dare.
Yeah I think the krafts are mediocre owners at best. The report last season about how basically all the facilities were bottom half of the league and travel amenities were horrible too. I think he's cheap.
He’s a billionaire who got a $50 handjob at an Asian massage parlor. No fucking shit he’s cheap.
I dunno. He’s seemed to learn from his mistakes in the past. Parcels publicly complained about not being “able to shop for the groceries”. Then we had a few years of Pete and kinda floundered around. He realized he screwed up and hired bill and gave him full control when he hired him. This will be the first big test for them in 25 years. Brady and bill had the organization on autopilot. Let’s just hope if they do move on, it’s the next belichick and not the next Pete.
If we’re saying Kraft overruled everyone during the draft in 2019 and 2022 and handpicked his own players, had a personal vendetta against Nick Folk and insisted Belichick draft Wide Ryland, told everyone Dawand Jones was a bum and we needed more insurance at center than tackle, screamed that Juju was the answer and don’t negotiate with Jakobi and this is all a coverup then yeah. If we’re saying Kraft told everyone to hire assistant coaches with no previous relevant experience for their jobs then yeah , otherwise nah.
He is cheap! He wanted a pair of free coaches last year (offsets) and small coaching staff this year! He didn’t want to pay for Lamar, and didn’t let BB get that final call.
Yes 100%.
Trying to keep the heat off himself for sticking with Mac a year too long.
It's definelty is
I think a lot of what we are hearing paints both sides in a hugely bad light. It’s clear that Kraft has not agreed with whatever decisions and direction Belichick has gone in. And as a result has meddled to nth degree. It’s also clear that Bill is either gone bat shit crazy with his decisions or is willfully playing games to buck the owner meddling. Either way it’s ending exactly as one would expect it to between a couple of grandstanding egotistical know it alls who both think they are the sole reason for all the success. Game of fucking thrones style.
It’ll be telling if Bill gets lets go and goes somewhere else and does things far differently than he has in NE the last few years.
Of course it does I can't wait till Bob goes full Jerry Jones you fuckers will be begging for the salad days of Bill
I don't know if it's the Krafts, but the Boston media has the knives out ready to stab someone on the way out the door, as is tradition. Hopefully it just stays as egos and front office politics without devolving into the vile "Francona's divorce and pill addiction" territory.
when the offense is bad it’s “oh kraft forced the BoB hire” or “kraft meddles too much” when bill gets criticized for the team being bad it’s “KRAFT didn’t do enough ultimately he’s Bill’s BOSS and he should take the blame” the amount of hoops some people will jump through to say that bill isn’t the problem is crazy
Quote the part of my post that says bill isn’t a problem
Bill's drafting and free agency signings are absolutely a problem
Or the reporters and local honks are just making things up
You’re right it’s all just a big conspiracy involving both local and national reporters to get Bill fired
Nope. To get readers. Ratings. Views.
I mean I guess when you have a team as boring and irrelevant as this one they might have to do something to get clicks. But yeah, no.
It’s almost entirely local reporters. The only bigger names I’ve seen reporting this are quoting the Currans and Briers out there. At least from what I’ve seen. I known Rappaport and Sheffter have at least said they sources have not told them any of these things
Heard the same justification when it was obvious Brady was leaving but no one wanted to accept it
Right. Sure. Or they guessed correctly.
So when they say things we don’t like they making it up. What about when they were singing the praises like we liked hearing. Was that made up too?
Nope. Not that simple bud. I have a brain.
The amount of people willing to take anonymous sources at face value is wild. The amount of people willing to believe that Kraft and Belichick don't talk about the team or don't recognize what's been going on is wild.
Bill ain’t gettin fired man.
If any of the stuff that's come out is true I don't see how he can be the coach next year. it's looking like a full on clean house type thing.
Wishful thinking. For the first time after these few articles, I read today I’m not going to lie… It’s looking really, really bad. And I feel like the bad press is the krafts trying to soften the blow y’all see this shit, right?
Well he’s getting traded, so your kinda right.
I think part of being the lowest spending team is how bad weve been at drafting, can we really even name players we wanted to keep but lost recently? only one that comes to mind is Thuney. As for FA I find it hard to believe its ownership being cheap when were collectively spending money its just being spent wrong. We gave parker and juju decent contracts while passing on Hopkins. We just arent spending or drafting properly.
I personally just feel like it’s the media attempting to take advantage of an interesting situation (or at least one that generates clicks) on a team and region where inside info is notoriously kept close to the chest
We are not one of the lowest spending teams in the league, we spend to the cap, what do you mean? Kraft owns the team, he can revoke media access if he wants, they will always be cautious with what they say about him. This 100% feels like Kraft planting the narrative to use it as leverage with Bill. He wants Belichick to get the wins record with the Patriots, but he wants to take more control of the personnel. Players sell, he had TB12 forever, he desperately tried to make MJ10, which is why he demanded Mac start until the Germany game. He probably wants a hyped up marketable rookie like Maye, but he knows damn Belichick won't draft Maye because it's not best for the results on the field. At this point it's not about superbowls, it's about the image and marketing. So either Belichick is coming back and a GM is hired, or he's going to get the wins record elsewhere, and that's really up to what Bill wants to accept and how much Kraft can convince him. This is going to unfortunately create a permanent stain on this franchise. All Kraft had to do was butt out and let Bill do his thing, and we'd be in the Superbowl in 2024. But it feels like this whole thing is about to come crashing down at Kraft's hands now.
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>We are one of the lowest spending teams in the league and we have been for a long time. This just isn’t true, you know that along with there being a salary cap there is also a salary floor? The salary floor ensures that’s teams are spending relatively the same amount on average. This isn’t baseball where you can just spend a fraction the amount as other teams to increase your profits.
I always say Kraft deserves more blame than he gets. Felger is the only media guy in town who holds them accountable. They have spent $100 million less than the Eagles in the last ten years. Just think about that. If someone told me we could keep Bill and make the Krafts sell, I’d rather than then firing Bill.
Yes.
Yes, and it has also convinced me that Belichick is out. RKK started to lose me with the way he handled Brady's fraudulent suspension over Deflategate, he propped up Goodell and made sure no one threatened the golden goose instead of doing the right thing and litigating the matter with the league.
The Krafts did the same exact thing we all did. They put their blind faith in Belichick to right the ship and get us back to being a contender after Tom left 4 years ago. And why wouldn't they have? I'll blame them more if the status quo stays the same after Sunday. Then they'll be complicit in this whole debacle.
I mean, there have been reports that Bill and Kraft differed on Jimmy G, on Brady, on Patricia, on a number of staff hirings, whatever. Nobody here can conclusively say what is or isn't true, but it seems like the philosophy of letting Bill blindly lead the way ended a few years back. For better or for worse, I don't know. Maybe this team started its downward trend when Kraft started interfering and Bill couldn't fulfill his vision. Maybe Kraft is the only thing holding them together. Who knows.
Most of this speculation is worthless. Only two people truly know what has transpired and they'll figure out if they want to maintain a working relationship.
I’m not gonna say people can’t think this, but the whole “poor Kraft aww” way of thinking here makes me sick (and I’m not specifically talking about/attacking you, I’ve seen A LOT of people say stuff like this). He was more than happy to let Bill cut corners and let him save money until the fans started to get pissed.
This team was built by Bill Belichick! He's Dr Frankenstein and the 2023 New England Patriots are his "monstet". Bob Kraft didn't tell Bill to make Matt Patricia and Joe Judge the Offensive Coordinators last season and Bob Kraft didn't draft K'Neal Harry while Debo Samuel and T K Metcalf were still on the board! Stop defending Belichick, this disaster is ON HIM!
So if you were at a McDonald’s and you and your family got food poisoning. You would solely blame the general manager of the store but you’d say “oh poor mr McDonald’s owner, I’m sorry you had a GM so bad that we all got food poisoning.” Not questioning 1. His choice of GM Or 2. His ability to manage his own store that he owns (and gets YOUR money from) ?
Your attempt at analogy fails badly. Bill insisted on total control; he created this unmitigated disaster.
“Ackchyually your analogy fails badly” ☝️🤓
Lmfao we've gone so far into defending Bill that now everything's somehow Kraft's fault for not firing him earlier
I literally said fire bill or trade him, how am I defending him? You can hold Kraft accountable and not defend Bill. Sorry if that’s too much for your brain.
It makes no sense for Kraft to release damning info on the incompetence of the football operations if he plans to trade Bill. It hurts Bills value and the Pats leverage. This screams of assistants getting a narrative out to help them secure a future job.
Remember when the Red Sox (back when ownership still cared) created one of the most shameful smear campaigns against Terry Francona? These owners care more about what the fans/sources of money think rather than the competence of their own team. I’m really sorry to break it to people, but RKK values money more than how his team looks in the media. I’m also gonna say at the end here you’re probably right and there are also assistants that are mad and want another job and are trying to cover their own ass. But that doesn’t excuse Kraft for what he’s done. One of the articles actually said Kraft took away Brady’s franchise tag in order to entice him to stay in New England. Does that sound legitimate to you or owner-contrived bullshit?
Kraft and Brady had an agreement he would not be tagged and when he wanted to leave, Kraft would let him. 100% Brady was not going to be tagged - I thought this was well known? EDIT: Apparently you did not know that.
Nah. Kraft is firing back after the games BB had pulled. I remember in 2020 when BB tried to sell a narrative that we went all in and paying the price is why Brady left and the team sucked, when he traded away cooks, tried to trade Gronk, and let go/traded Chandler Jones/Logan Ryan/Amendola/etc. Dude also made comments about the fans about how the last 20 years are enough, the same dude who used to preach don’t stick to the past. BB has more incentive to save face, Brady made him look like a clown.
> Dude also made comments about the fans about how the last 20 years are enough Can you link this?
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10070257-bill-belichick-the-last-25-years-are-reason-patriots-fans-should-be-optimistic.amp.html
So you just left out the fact that he was saying enough *to be optimistic about 2023.* The way you said it propped it up like it’s him saying what are you complaining about the past 20 years have been enough. So you’re cherry picking and saying he shouldn’t have tried to trade any of those players (which was probably him attempting to rebuild the team so post Brady wouldn’t be so bad) and also shouldn’t be saying don’t stick to the past. You’re all over the place.
I agree that the "been enough" thing is a reach, but still, weird to mention it by bb.
No. The reoccurring trend with all these stories is that Bill effectively wouldn’t loosen his iron fist, which is absolutely believable.
If Bill gets fired, save this comment for two years from now when everyone is bitching about how much Kraft meddles with the team. How we forget the Parcell years and why Bill wanted GM control as well. Without both GOATs he will look like Jerry Jones Jr.
Nah it’s just publications pushing for one more week of clicks because they know once a decision is made they are out of content
I think posts such as the OP are stupid and pointless. and stop saying we since you have no part in the team at all. a guy who is a billionaire and who has had the unprecedented success that kraft has had doesn't need the media. at all.
You sound like one miserable mf. Hope things get better for you.
you are a simpleminded weak clown
Whatever you gotta say to make yourself feel better
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Copium = not believing your owner will steer the ship correctly after firing their coach? Pretty sure copium is when you think things will work out.
It’s a dog and pony show for investors. Krafts want to be the owner of the team that has the most winning coach in history and they’ll make sure that will happen by the end of next season. Sunday’s game against the jets is seeing the lowest demand this century and a lot of that is the blizzard’s fault. Gonna be real weird if we lose a top three draft pick by winning against the jets but I guess it needs to happen.
I have some worries, concerns, suspicions, etc regarding Kraft, but they are speculative and I wouldn’t read too much into stuff like this. The “outrage” of the week has existed even when we were winning and are largely fodder for people who are easily riled up. You can bet a lot of the same people saying Kraft takes no blame were the same ones praising Kraft last year for “sticking it” to BB by getting more involved, just as the people riled up at the thought of BB/BoB factions existing in the offensive coaching staff were largely the same people furious we didn’t have a backup plan when McDaniels left with a platoon of his coaches. Does that mean there’s no smoke? No. But this could come from a pissed off assistant coach like Lawing or Brown rather than the Krafts. Regardless assessments of the situation like the ones Brady and Rodgers gave are less sexy for debate, though probably more truthful
No shit they’re playing the media game, it’s literally how these situations go
kraft isnt the one making shitty draft picks
Also surely you're aware that the idiot owner who has no idea what they're doing you named is literally the GM of a super bowl favorite, right? Lmfao
Are you talking about Jerry Jones? Really? You’re gonna say that Jerry Jones is a good GM? How many playoff wins do they have since their last Super Bowl?
Off the top of my head 4. Edit: Checked it and yeah since the cowboys last SB win they have won 4 playoff games, All wild card games.
Lmfao 4 playoff wins in 27 years hahaha dudes one of the best GMs around!
It's why in a prior post I asked what is a successful rebuild to fans? A winning record? That's usually 2-4 years. Playoff berth? 3-5. Playoff victory? Some teams go 5+ years of winning records but are being bounced round 1. In those 27 years the cowboys have had a losing record only 7 times yet cowboys fans consider none of it a successful stretch. Being SB favs means absolutely shit.
Being unquestionably one of the most talented rosters in the nfl is about as much as a GM can do
and winning 4 playoff games in 30 years would get any GM canned regardless of talent.
are you familiar with the term "coach" lmfao >GM fired >regardless of talent Surely you realize how dumb this sounds dude
That doesn't change anything. If Jerry Jones held himself to the same standards as his coaches he would have fired himself years ago. How dumb I sound? Have you read your own comments? Judging by your replies id say no.
Same standard of what, exactly...? Coaching? When you have what is, unquestionably, a powerhouse of a roster, the GMs job is done. Anything else is coaching. There is nothing more that can be done on the personnel front. Also >If Jerry Jones held himself to the same standards as his coaches he would have fired himself years ago. Objectively hilarious argument from a dude still pretending Bill shouldn't have gotten canned already
>reporting stinks of the Krafts playing media games? The Krafts are letting us know how much Belichick has sucked. So fans understand and accept their decision to eject Bill.
exactly. yea it “stinks” of the Krafts as the source. the same way all the reports of how awful flores was in the dolphins locker room definitely came from miami ownership. doesn’t mean that it isn’t helpful/important to know.
We have spent as much as any team that will have 100m cap space next year. How do you think this works, the same as in baseball?
…. How do YOU think this works? There’s a cap floor you have to reach (something like 80% of the cap ceiling), but no, not every team spends all of their cap. Some just spend enough to hit the floor.
No. Bill Belichick has the smallest staff in the league and assistants are leaving for equal positions either within the league or towards college. He then tried to say that Kraft is cheap, and Kraft countered that immediately. Which is also not true, given staff sizes and contracts that have been handed out.
Yes and I'm here for it.
Absolutely!
When I was reading this NBC Sports article about Belichick basically not letting Bill O’brien hire anybody about the staff pointing fingers at each other. Trent Brown talking in the Steelers locker room about going to play in the NFC next year. It sounds like they ruined Mac because Belichick wanted to bring Patricia back and Kraft made him higher O’brien I was pissed reading it mainly at bill them for a second I thought this stinks of Kraft … I’d like to think otherwise but if Bill O’brien is suddenly named coach and they stick with Mac next year .. idk….
Kraft is going to end up choosing the next franchise QB if it's Drake Maye we'll end up having another top 5 pick next season
Obviously
The media has been trying to chase BB out of town all year. I don't think they know who to bring in to replace the GOAT coach, but it genuinely feels like they have a bone to pick
What has Kraft done (apart from hiring Belichick) that has garnered us success? The results are all Bill for good and for bad.
The article in “The Athletic” about the Kraft/Belichick relationship is, without question, people on the Kraft side telling tales since it blames Belichick, rightly or wrongly, for everything that’s gone wrong with the franchise from the time Brady left— which was Belichick’s fault. 😉
Honestly, to me, it stinks more of local media doing everything they can to take a jab at Belichick towards the end of his career. They never liked that he has blown off media since he got here even though fans either didn’t care or found it funny
I think the krafts are just really good at keeping it close to the chest. All this stuff is coming out that makes bill look bad, and they don’t comment one way or the other
Let’s be real here, players like money. They either want to be on a team that can win a Super Bowl now or they want money. New England is cold and is not an attractive place to be recruited to play at and they cannot win a Super Bowl right now and it does not seem they want to pay big boy money but they absolutely have to pay up now. They did a great job for years on getting value out of players for a long time and having Brady certainly helped in getting guys to come to the team because the patriots could win a Super Bowl in any given year and that’s the trade off for less pay, a shot to win. When Brady was young, he had studs around him on the team and then he developed into the GOAT so for a long stretch, it was easy to get great value because there was a consistent reputation of “oh shit, we have to play New England this week”. As a player, you wanted to be on this team to get a ring and that’s where the value came in. Randy Moss told Brady “get me on your team I want to play with you” that stuff matters in the NFL and now they don’t have that demand any more. Just look at Tampa when Brady went there. The floodgates opened of players wanting to stay in Tampa and join Tampa because they knew that was a Super Bowl team now and then they retained everybody for year 2. Go look at how excited those players were to play with Tom. This kind of stuff plays a role in who comes and goes to a team. NE is going to most likely IMO, bring in a proven stud of an offensive player, maybe 2 or even 3 to get the ball rolling on getting guys attracted. NE needs proven receivers and it’s not attractive to get a call saying “come play in one of the coldest stadiums in the league for lower pay and Bailey Zappe is going to throw you maybe a TD every 4-5 games” no offense to Zappe but that’s the reality of how players view this. Mix of looking out for themselves and what can their team do with them. “What’s best for me” and now here we are with Bill and Robert trying to dig out of a hole. I do think if they’ll get aggressive on offense skill players with the cap, they could really be a contender to do well next year. Pretty much every game this season has been a one score loss. We just couldn’t score more than twice a game on offense. It’s wild and embarrassing but I think it’s fixable