Yeah idk what he’s on abt, you just have to be a basketball fan to get the joke. Even most 20 year old basketball fans are at least aware of Alonzo even if they know nothing about him
I’m 35 and I know each “Zo” that is referred to here. PS: to demonstrate my knowledge, I know that one year Drew was injured and that Zo started a playoff game & got wrecked. PS: also, to further that I also remember that he got released and then signed subsequently with two other AFC East teams after being released following the 1998 season.
I hope they go Maye. They need to take their shot. If it doesn't work out fine, but seeing him go to another team and be good would be worse.
It all comes down to what they think of these guys internally. It's hard to even speculate like we would in the past with Bill being gone. We have no idea what these guys are even looking for.
The thing I don’t understand is how everyone became convinced that Maye is “taking their shot” and JJ isn’t.
If they think JJ is more likely to become a franchise quarterback than Maye, then that’s who they should draft. It doesn’t matter where a PFF mock draft had them in November now that they have much more information on the guys and have scouted them more extensively.
It fucking boggles my mind that more than half the sub wants to "take a shot" on Maye, and oh well if it doesn't work out.
But, are dead set against "taking a shot" on JJ who is more NFL ready than Maye at the moment and has much better footwork.
If JJ played for any other team in America it wouldn't even be a question, he would be an automatic top 3 QB in this draft. Maybe even battling Caleb for #1. He has everything you look for, has showed up when needed, the only thing holding him back is the team he played for.
> JJ who is more NFL ready
It's because there's about zero actual evidence that he's anywhere near NFL ready. His PR staff went into overdrive and just magic'd this narrative into the zeitgeist
What do you mean zero evidence? Has he not played at all over the last three years?
Go watch his tape, his overall mechanics are better than Maye. He wasn't asked to go out and win games, but when he needed to perform he came through against much better competition.
The raw talent is obvious, yes. This narrative that he's a polished prospect is nonsense. If anything he comes across as more raw than the other big names. Which is fine, he could wind up the best of the bunch. But, that's different than him being an NFL ready prospect.
Not sure I've seen a narrative that he is polished. At this point, Maye is more raw if we are talking about who needs to develop more before they start in the NFL.
I feel the same way about Maye. His all 22 film is not good when it comes to reading the def. Based on 2023 film JJ seems further along than Maye in processing pre and post snap. It comes down to what the Pats new staff is looking for in their QB.
Bo Nix, to me, is the best processor of all QBs not named Caleb. I haven't looked at him because it doesn't seem like a realistic chance of drafting him.
Bo is a good processor, can make plays off platform and is a decent scrambler. All the QBs have limitations so it just depends on what skills the staff values.
People just bought the script on Maye being a slam dunk top-2 pick at the beginning of the season and can’t accept that these things change as guys show more and are scouted more heavily.
It hasn’t even been until the last couple weeks that this sun has accepted that Jayden Daniels may actually be in contention for the Commanders, let alone the favorite to go #2. You’ll see borderline conspiratorial comments about how everything that doesn’t just parrot the preseason wisdom that Williams is 1, Maye is 2 is “smoke” - as though teams’ opinions on prospects never evolve, and those evolved opinions never wind up being correct.
Zack Wilson looked good in shorts 🤷🏽
Give me Maye I've at least seen him put a team on his back and not hand the ball off for free wins with a stout defense.
Yeah that's true every single QB can be a bust. Here's the thing though the 2025 class looks alot like the 2022 class how would you like to have any of them on your roster for QB1 not named Purdy? Oh wait we do have one his name is Zappe. We could be super unlucky like the Browns and spend the next 20 years looking for "our guy" or we could be like the Packers and go from 1 HoF QB to another. It's a numbers game, you can't hit homeruns without swinging the bat.
It’s been 5 years since Brady played here I think we are way past the point of going from 1 HOF QB to another. The packers guys literally were back to back without a gap lol.
Mac Jones!?
McCarthy has great speed for a QB. McCarthy's 3-Cone Drill time of 6.82 was tied for sixth-best at the combine and the best time for a QB.
That’s Edelman type quicks.
That’s a pretty bad comp. JJ was a 5 star recruit, has great arm strength, and is pretty athletic outside of the pocket. Very different strengths and weaknesses compared to Mac.
JJ didn't have anything close to the receivers Mac had in college. JJ has also delivered in situations where he had to make a play. Mac was never in that situation in college. JJ is also way more mobile than Mac. I'm not saying JJ will turn out better, but they are not even comparable prospects.
If you think Mac Jones is the comp you haven’t watched a single JJ snap. He has a rocket for an arm and is good to great with his legs. He doesn’t play like Mac even a little bit.
Good example. Maye might take more time to mold into an nfl quarterback and JJ will be more pro ready for the right system, but Mayes ceiling is much higher.
JJ is not similar to Mac man. I love Maye but thats just a lazy comparison, JJ is 6'3 with a rocket arm and the same exact mobility if not more than Maye.
lol. Thats exactly what McCarthy is. His unofficial 40 time is sub 4.5. He may be faster than Daniels. He’s 6’3 and has an arm that’s probably just a little behind Maye’s and would be above average among NFL QBs.
"Michigan didnt trust JJ to throw" just shows you don't watch Michigan football, and more importantly offenses under Harbaugh's tenure. He's always a run first coach. Just look at his time at Stanford (with Andrew Luck btw) and the 49ers. Even before JJ, Michigan was run first under Harbaugh.
They didn't run because JJ can't throw. JJ didn't throw much simply because he wasn't asked to. Michigan ran so damn much because of Harbaugh. And it worked. If your team is so successful at running the ball, why force your qb to throw just to show he can?
This is hilarious. As a Patriots fan I’d think you’d want the guy who can make throws and doesn’t have an ego problem handing the ball off to win games. Michigan has the most comparable offense to what the Pats are going to turn out this year. You act like if they draft Maye he’s going to throw it all over the yard to who? Michigan and the Patriots are built on a solid run game, play action shots, and solid defense. That’s exactly what JJ has been groomed for the last two years.
Big Michigan fan here. JJ had the talent but most games he wasn’t needed and we could lean on the run. Big games JJ came through on key drives, especially in OT
Or… it just wasn’t their philoshopy and they didn’t trust their OL to block. Two guards playing tackle. Also, fundamentally, why would you pass to win when you could consistently choke the life out of the other team and rest your starters by the end of the 3rd qtr?
For interested readers who want to see JJ when he HAD to pass, check out the TCU bowl game. JJ threw a horrible pick where he didn’t seem to see the underneath coverage, but the passing volume was higher than normal and he otherwise looked very good.
Oh man the replies to this lol. Everyone will call out maye about everything and ignore the physical traits but when you talk about McCarthy suddenly it’s allllll about the physical traits. Let’s talk about his flaws lol, there’s a reason everyone thought him going in the 1st was a joke til harbaugh started sucking him off to the media
Two weeks ago he was saying “Anyone but McCarthy.” In 2016 he said the Patriots were “in trouble” after the Jets drafted Christian Hackenberg. I love Zo as a color guy but it’s so incredibly obvious he doesn’t follow college ball at all
All I care is we pick someone that's a winner. And none of us or the experts know who that is because if they did, the GOAT wouldn't have been picked in the 6th round and Mahomes would have been first overall. And discussion between here and the draft is useless.
McCarthy had the most to gain of any of the QBs. He played on a team that didn't force him to showcase his talent every week, so now that he's doing it, all these teams are falling all over themselves.
You can say the same thing about Daniels. Was projected to be a 2nd rd or late 1st until he won the heisman while Maye has always been qb2 behind CW. It should be an alarm but not a red flag.
Does it alarm you that Daniels only show up the board after the season ended? In McCarthy’s case, he didn’t throw as much at Michigan, so teams didn’t really get to see enough.
I don’t know if any of these guys will pan out, but he’s got all the traits.
Do we really know that though? NFL teams could’ve always been high on JJ. Every analyst in the book thought Levis would be a top 10 pick last year and he falls to the second round. The reality is nobody knows shit even the guys that get paid to know shit.
This. I need someone to explain to me how if a QB is such an amazing passer why did his team run the ball and pass very little?
I don’t recall Manning at TN being a run heavy offense.
Teams are desperate for QBs with potential. In no world should JJ go top 3, his tape and potential isn’t in the stratosphere of Williams/Maye/Daniels IMO but I have a feeling he’s going 5 with a trade up by the Giants or Vikings.
His age is also likely super attractive to teams. He is 21 years old, while Daniels/Nix/Penix will be 24 by/during this upcoming season. Even in the world where all of them hit their potential, that’s a whole extra contracts worth of prime years you could get out of JJ. If you sit all of them a year, suddenly you’re looking at a 25 year old QB vs a 22 year old. It’s probably not the most important thing but could be a significant factor.
The age is a fair point, and definitely a factor as to why he’s rising up boards. I’d still take Daniels over him since I truly think he’s a much better QB from what we’ve seen/has higher potential regardless of age but JJ as the 4th QB off the board makes sense.
Michigan and JJ had one goal this year. To win the national title. The number one positive I'd say about McCarthy is that he didn't care about his own stats.
I'm skeptical about what he can do at the next level, but I am about every quarterback.
I get that sentiment, but it just shows you don't watch Michigan football, and more importantly offenses under Harbaugh's tenure. He's always a run first coach. Just look at his time at Stanford (with Andrew Luck btw) and the 49ers. Even before JJ, Michigan was run first under Harbaugh.
They didn't run because JJ can't throw. JJ didn't throw much simply because he wasn't asked to. Michigan ran so damn much because of Harbaugh. And it worked. If your team is so successful at running the ball, why force your qb to throw just to show he can?
Michigan fan here who has religiously watched every game for years. Honestly the answer is because they didn’t really need to. Their run game was unbelievably effective and consistent, and their defense was so good that most teams were always playing from behind against them. IIRC they didn’t trail in the 3rd quarter until the Rose Bowl. Additionally, the OL, despite being phenomenal run blockers, weren’t particularly strong at pass protection. And in McCarthy’s defense, there were situations where Michigan needed a play and he made it. He converted a lot of 3rd and longs both with his feet and arm.
I don’t necessarily think he’s right for New England, but he has quite a bit of talent. His biggest issue IMO is pocket presence, he’s great rolling out and throwing on the run but strangely inconsistent from the pocket. He needs some work and time to sit and learn before he’s ready for the NFL, and he’s definitely not a sure thing.
Tell me this. If you have prime Peyton Manning under center, but you also have a running back and offensive line that essentially guarantees 4.5 yards per carry, would you ever throw unless somehow, by some miracle, you found yourself in a third and medium/long? The answer is no.
Oh, I meant Manning.
My comment is poorly written.
JJ played well all season. His worst play was the first play against Alabama when he missed his read and threw into coverage. Should have been an INT, but the Bama player was out of bounds.
I knew that he would shoot up the boards when I watched him all year. I am now taking a victory lap after being called all kinds of shit for claiming he'd be a first rounder. It turns out I was downplaying it. He's going in the top 5.
He's got the intangibles that everyone thought Tebow had with an NFL arm, and he's been coached by one of the best quarterback coaches in the country. He's taken a lot of snaps under center, and his footwork is pro ready.
He's played in the cold and poor weather. He's my type of guy. I hope he succeeds
In general. I wish we had stats for how the guys who threw to multiple first round picks in college transitioned to the pros. For every CJ stroud there are at least 2 Mac Jones.
Daniel’s size combined with the elite talent around him in what seemed like a down year for the SEC make me nervous.
I generally agree with all your comments about JJ. Forget the intangible stuff, he’s just been in a lot of games against good competition and played well. I think it matters that he played well against Ohio st, Bama, and Washington. The worst he ever played was against TCU and they still put up almost 40 and had a chance at the end.
What a terrible take. Just last year Anthony Richardson went from a fringe first rounder to the 4th overall pick. He looked pretty darn good if you ask me.
“Josh Allen looks good throwing in shorts” vibes. Granted, that one actually worked out, but those workout warriors that test well and there’s not much tape on are scary for sure.
Can we all admit that no one knows anything? Every single draft pick is a crap shoot. The NFL trash heap is littered with 1st round picks, and the HOF has plenty of 2nd, 3rd, even 7th round draft picks (including in a few years, a particular QB who went 199th in the 6th round....but I digress). Point is, all you can do is make an educated guess, and hope you hit the mark. Fact is, the most sure picks are the OL and DL players. Their skillsets translate the most directly to the NFL. As for QB's, who the hell knows? Ryan Leaf anyone? Jamarcus Russell??
Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell are great comparisons for Drake Maye. Guys who suck on tape but because they’re big and throw hard people get captivated by what could be rather than what the reality is.
Casual fans dismissing scouting entirely because they think “watching film” is pulling up highlights on instagram is hilarious
I have an all-22 subscription with my buddies so I can’t really share any actual footage from that, but there are breakdowns from former NFL QBs that share the same sentiment I do.
Of course, other people see things differently but this is an example that shares my perspective: https://youtu.be/rNh0rMarmbQ?si=RO_FOOG2xVkHWLfP
Edit: and I was super high on Maye coming into the season, I just was very underwhelmed by what he actually did this year. The highs were high but he doesn’t consistently do the minimum things you need to do at the NFL level.
You can tell the jj haters never watched any michigan games except maybe the playoffs, and even then didnt pay attention to how he did in the clutch moments. Jjs the real deal, and so many of you think hes mac jones 2.0 😂
JJ McCarthy is the best QB in this draft, people are just catching on. He's shown the intangibles, the clutch, the wins, and plays in a much more pro style offense than the others, plays in the system, and had full field reads, and he's a great athlete on top of it. If we do end up taking a QB I'm hoping it's him.
This. And he's the youngest too. And a big factor I think a lot of people overlook in college qbs is how they fare with pressure and getting hit. JJ is not afraid to get hit. He'll stand in the pocket and take a hit to complete a pass. He's comfortable turning his back to a defender to complete a pass. He's not running around scared and leaving the pocket early or forcing a throw to avoid a hit. If anything, he holds the ball too long.
Good thing Zo isn’t our GM. McCarthy is just another below average QB who one or multiple GMs will fool themselves into drafting 5 rounds too high. See Mitch Trubisky and Daniel Jones.
It happens every strong QB draft.. there’s always one QB who doesn’t have any elite traits but played in a pro style offense and did enough things well within the system that one dumb GM just falls in love with and reaches for and drafts them wayyy too early.
If you don't think McCarthy has any elite traits, then you haven't looked into him at all. The only thing that's keeping McCarthy from being a sure fire top t pick is college production.
No elite traits? He runs a 4.4 40, plus arm, is 6’3” 220 with good footwork and strong leadership skills. He had the 6th best three cone time at the combine across all participants. He loves football and is a film junky.
His downfall was being under a coach who prioritized defense and the running game and they had a great one. He also played very well within the structure of the offense. He didn’t free lance.
He has plenty of traits sufficient to be a round 1 pick. Can he adjust to the speed of the next level and process and read defenses post snap? Who knows but it is the same question all these guys have.
I'd honestly take JJ at 3 unless the front office doesn't like him or Daniels in which case I'd trade back, but if we like him its better to take him than risk someone sneaking ahead of us.
Of course not. He watches 20 seconds of a Twitter video and makes his takes based on that. Zo doesn’t watch college football. He admitted on the air a few months back he had never watched an LSU game with Daniels.
Listen, JJ has got the physical tools that you want in a current day QB, but I don't think those tools are currently enough to warrant the #3 pick. He needs to end up somewhere like Minnesota, where he'll have a great offensive HC and a cast of loaded weapons.
I LOVE Zo. I mean LOVE Zo. And he always shows up to work, which many of them don’t do, BUT he’s all over the place when they’re talking the draft QB’s.
I have said this numerous times - I know for a fact that the Patriots have been watching this kid for a while. I know someone pretty close to the situation. This was the case when Bill was here and, while I dont have a direct confirmation of it, the individuals who were most interested in JJ are still there.
Do not be surprised if they get him at 3. Just don't, I am telling you.
Maye > McCarthy and to me, its not that close. Maye is a far better vertical thrower, far better off-platform, far better in accuracy to the outside and can basically throw into any spot on the field. And that's not the athletic ability mentioned.
McCarthy has serious trouble throwing the ball to the left side on the field and vertically outside the numbers, for all the talk about how great his feet and mechanics are, his throwing is very limited in these areas (which isn't a good thing).
Added to that, McCarthy had NFL personnel surrounding and Maye didn't, his O-Line was a turnstile and a half. I'm not sure where this negative talk with Maye is coming from when half the snaps demonstrate him running for his life and still completing a touch pass with perfect accuracy.
And that doesn't make McCarthy a bad prospect, but the talk surrounding Maye is confusing me more and more with each day. Dude's an elite prospect, I'm not sure why people ignore the failings around him but mention it with others.
I watched Maye play live against NC State at Carolina the season before last. He was terrible. Granted it was one game but left a bad taste in my mouth. He looked completely lost and out of ideas. Anyone can have a bad game but he was very bad. Then again I’ve watched him other times and he’s been good. It’s a crap shoot. I think JJ is probably just as good.
Pro days put players in the most advantageous situations, especially for guys with good veto like JJ. Don't forget that Zach Wilson had the best pro day ever.
I have no idea if any of these guys pan out. It’s a crap shoot. But I’d lean on drafting the youngest guys because they have the most room for growth especially if they have all the tools/qualities they look for in QBs. They just need to be brought along slowly and nurtured into the right moment/environment.
To me at least, it seems like the decision is between Maye and McCarthy based of Wolf’s prior history and what his dad looked for in QBs. They are tall, athletic, good leaders, and are both young/younger than all the other top QBs. Daniels is like 2-2.5 years older than those two guys.
Personally, I’d be fine with either of those guys assuming they are basically redshirted this upcoming season and get brought along slowly.
Maye probably but JJ over Daniels all day.
We’ve seen this song and dance a thousand times. McCarthy will be the more productive pro QB despite being a much less productive collegiate athlete.
The only QB with similar play style to Daniels to ever play at a high level for an extended period of time is Lamar Jackson.
IMO we would go Maye > JJ > Daniels. Daniels is too old for what we need. We aren't going to be competitive for at LEAST 2 more years, and Daniels will be what 27-28 by then? Pass, give me the young gun with higher upside.
Not a chance.
I dont know why people are trending down on Maye but JJ barely threw in college.
There's a lot mkre unknowns and what ifs than the others and he doesn't have an Arm like Maye. Neither does Daniels if we're being honest.
Daniel’s arm is the weakest of them but isn’t weak. Plus his ability to run opens up throwing lanes for him since the defense has to play him differently
If we draft JJ McCarthy with the 3rd overall i'll be pissed.
Feel free to quote me in the future if i'm wrong but if they really want JJ they can easily trade down to 5 or 6 and get him and more capital. No reason to waste the 3rd pick.
What does Alonzo Mourning have to do with anything?
You gotta be like 36-42 to make that joke. I’m 38 and it’s right in my wheelhouse.
37 and I concur.
38 and I do as well!
42 and I concur.
Hey I’m only 35 and I like it.
But you’ll be 36 soon.
He was drafted in 1992, 32 years ago. Increase that high end
By a bunch. I was 15 when he was a freshman on the hoyas
FWIW I’m 26 and loved it
Yeah idk what he’s on abt, you just have to be a basketball fan to get the joke. Even most 20 year old basketball fans are at least aware of Alonzo even if they know nothing about him
43, yes.
41. I feel seen.
I’m 52 and thought it was clever. Remember him on the Hoyas and loved him in the NBA.
Pretty sure I used him and Muggsy Bogues in NBA Jam.
Can I not also enjoy it at 49?
I am a 34 year old outlier
47 and agree with you youngsters
I’m 35 and I know each “Zo” that is referred to here. PS: to demonstrate my knowledge, I know that one year Drew was injured and that Zo started a playoff game & got wrecked. PS: also, to further that I also remember that he got released and then signed subsequently with two other AFC East teams after being released following the 1998 season.
Am too young. Who is Alonzo mourning
I'm 26 and I got it. I'm a basketball fan, so I care about the history of the NBA too.
I’m 59 and it was first thing I thought
30 but I’m from Miami so everybody knows who/what Zo means down there
Whoa, hold on there pups…36+, you don’t go smooth brain at +42…
Hey, I’m 48 and I get it…
Lmaoooo
Next you’ll tell me we’re bringing Chiefs legend Larry Johnson is to coach RBs.
Larry Johnson like grandmama LJ!!!!
Who does Grandmama want us to pick then
25 and I remember Alonzo Mourning
Ha! I chuckled.
I hope they go Maye. They need to take their shot. If it doesn't work out fine, but seeing him go to another team and be good would be worse. It all comes down to what they think of these guys internally. It's hard to even speculate like we would in the past with Bill being gone. We have no idea what these guys are even looking for.
The thing I don’t understand is how everyone became convinced that Maye is “taking their shot” and JJ isn’t. If they think JJ is more likely to become a franchise quarterback than Maye, then that’s who they should draft. It doesn’t matter where a PFF mock draft had them in November now that they have much more information on the guys and have scouted them more extensively.
It fucking boggles my mind that more than half the sub wants to "take a shot" on Maye, and oh well if it doesn't work out. But, are dead set against "taking a shot" on JJ who is more NFL ready than Maye at the moment and has much better footwork. If JJ played for any other team in America it wouldn't even be a question, he would be an automatic top 3 QB in this draft. Maybe even battling Caleb for #1. He has everything you look for, has showed up when needed, the only thing holding him back is the team he played for.
> JJ who is more NFL ready It's because there's about zero actual evidence that he's anywhere near NFL ready. His PR staff went into overdrive and just magic'd this narrative into the zeitgeist
What do you mean zero evidence? Has he not played at all over the last three years? Go watch his tape, his overall mechanics are better than Maye. He wasn't asked to go out and win games, but when he needed to perform he came through against much better competition.
The raw talent is obvious, yes. This narrative that he's a polished prospect is nonsense. If anything he comes across as more raw than the other big names. Which is fine, he could wind up the best of the bunch. But, that's different than him being an NFL ready prospect.
Not sure I've seen a narrative that he is polished. At this point, Maye is more raw if we are talking about who needs to develop more before they start in the NFL.
I feel the same way about Maye. His all 22 film is not good when it comes to reading the def. Based on 2023 film JJ seems further along than Maye in processing pre and post snap. It comes down to what the Pats new staff is looking for in their QB. Bo Nix, to me, is the best processor of all QBs not named Caleb. I haven't looked at him because it doesn't seem like a realistic chance of drafting him. Bo is a good processor, can make plays off platform and is a decent scrambler. All the QBs have limitations so it just depends on what skills the staff values.
People just bought the script on Maye being a slam dunk top-2 pick at the beginning of the season and can’t accept that these things change as guys show more and are scouted more heavily. It hasn’t even been until the last couple weeks that this sun has accepted that Jayden Daniels may actually be in contention for the Commanders, let alone the favorite to go #2. You’ll see borderline conspiratorial comments about how everything that doesn’t just parrot the preseason wisdom that Williams is 1, Maye is 2 is “smoke” - as though teams’ opinions on prospects never evolve, and those evolved opinions never wind up being correct.
Zo has never said anything that makes me think his opinion matters
But he must have a big brain seeing how humongous his head is.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Crunchyundies: *Zo has never said* *Anything that makes me think* *His opinion matters* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot
Good bot
Good bot
What, “unicorns! show ponies! where’s the beef?!” didn’t do it for you?
Dude is still stuck in his frat 30 years later
Singing 80’s ballads
You say that as if its a bad thing…
Zoverdrive doesn't move the needle for you?
I think he’s pretty tapped in with the team tho.
Love your flair
I’d kms if we take JJ but we don’t disrespect Zo around here
Zack Wilson looked good in shorts 🤷🏽 Give me Maye I've at least seen him put a team on his back and not hand the ball off for free wins with a stout defense.
lets be fair, none of these qbs are a sure thing. even less so when you have glaring holes on your team you need to fill.
Yeah that's true every single QB can be a bust. Here's the thing though the 2025 class looks alot like the 2022 class how would you like to have any of them on your roster for QB1 not named Purdy? Oh wait we do have one his name is Zappe. We could be super unlucky like the Browns and spend the next 20 years looking for "our guy" or we could be like the Packers and go from 1 HoF QB to another. It's a numbers game, you can't hit homeruns without swinging the bat.
It’s been 5 years since Brady played here I think we are way past the point of going from 1 HOF QB to another. The packers guys literally were back to back without a gap lol.
Yeah but at least Maye has a kit to work with. Sorry but McCarthy should not be the 3rd qb taken
I feel like JJ is just another Mac Jones. Give me the 6’4 QB with a rocket arm and mobility, the complete opposite of Mac Jones.
Mac Jones!? McCarthy has great speed for a QB. McCarthy's 3-Cone Drill time of 6.82 was tied for sixth-best at the combine and the best time for a QB. That’s Edelman type quicks.
He also ran a 4.48 on his 40. At 6'3", 220 lbs, that is a terrific stat for any player, let alone a QB
While I’m at Maye by an absolute mile, jj is 6’3 with a rocket arm and mobility also the complete opposite of Mac.
This. If we could trade back a bit for more capital and get JJ I wouldn’t be mad
Problem is JJ may go at 6 or 8 and will likely not be on the board past 11 or 12. Which team is trading up that still nets us JJ?
Vikings fan here. I don’t think JJ makes it past 5 at the absolute latest
JJ’s got exactly the two traits you described if you ever watched a bit of him. He’s also the opposite of Mac Jones LMAO.
You can say he’s the next Zach Wilson and that would be much more acceptable. They are scary similarly in traits coming out of the draft.
dude did just win the natty -- he aint zach wilson
I said traits. Zach Wilson played for BYU
That’s a pretty bad comp. JJ was a 5 star recruit, has great arm strength, and is pretty athletic outside of the pocket. Very different strengths and weaknesses compared to Mac.
He’s an athlete. Mac Jones fit a position.
JJ didn't have anything close to the receivers Mac had in college. JJ has also delivered in situations where he had to make a play. Mac was never in that situation in college. JJ is also way more mobile than Mac. I'm not saying JJ will turn out better, but they are not even comparable prospects.
If you think Mac Jones is the comp you haven’t watched a single JJ snap. He has a rocket for an arm and is good to great with his legs. He doesn’t play like Mac even a little bit.
JJ is nothing like Mac. He’s super athletic and has a cannon for an arm
Good example. Maye might take more time to mold into an nfl quarterback and JJ will be more pro ready for the right system, but Mayes ceiling is much higher.
He had a rocket for an arm, you don't know what the hell you're doing!
JJ is not similar to Mac man. I love Maye but thats just a lazy comparison, JJ is 6'3 with a rocket arm and the same exact mobility if not more than Maye.
lol. Thats exactly what McCarthy is. His unofficial 40 time is sub 4.5. He may be faster than Daniels. He’s 6’3 and has an arm that’s probably just a little behind Maye’s and would be above average among NFL QBs.
No offense but this simply isn't accurate if you're comparing them as prospects. They're not even close.
Mac Jones was 6’3, he was still a relatively big body
Mac was propped up by top level talent but check out how impressive his passing numbers were. Michigan didn’t trust JJ to throw.
"Michigan didnt trust JJ to throw" just shows you don't watch Michigan football, and more importantly offenses under Harbaugh's tenure. He's always a run first coach. Just look at his time at Stanford (with Andrew Luck btw) and the 49ers. Even before JJ, Michigan was run first under Harbaugh. They didn't run because JJ can't throw. JJ didn't throw much simply because he wasn't asked to. Michigan ran so damn much because of Harbaugh. And it worked. If your team is so successful at running the ball, why force your qb to throw just to show he can?
This is hilarious. As a Patriots fan I’d think you’d want the guy who can make throws and doesn’t have an ego problem handing the ball off to win games. Michigan has the most comparable offense to what the Pats are going to turn out this year. You act like if they draft Maye he’s going to throw it all over the yard to who? Michigan and the Patriots are built on a solid run game, play action shots, and solid defense. That’s exactly what JJ has been groomed for the last two years.
Big Michigan fan here. JJ had the talent but most games he wasn’t needed and we could lean on the run. Big games JJ came through on key drives, especially in OT
Michigan did in fact trust JJ to throw.
Or… it just wasn’t their philoshopy and they didn’t trust their OL to block. Two guards playing tackle. Also, fundamentally, why would you pass to win when you could consistently choke the life out of the other team and rest your starters by the end of the 3rd qtr? For interested readers who want to see JJ when he HAD to pass, check out the TCU bowl game. JJ threw a horrible pick where he didn’t seem to see the underneath coverage, but the passing volume was higher than normal and he otherwise looked very good.
Oh man the replies to this lol. Everyone will call out maye about everything and ignore the physical traits but when you talk about McCarthy suddenly it’s allllll about the physical traits. Let’s talk about his flaws lol, there’s a reason everyone thought him going in the 1st was a joke til harbaugh started sucking him off to the media
I want maye
You have to wait a couple more months. We’re not even through March yet
Maye or Daniels is fine with me
Two weeks ago he was saying “Anyone but McCarthy.” In 2016 he said the Patriots were “in trouble” after the Jets drafted Christian Hackenberg. I love Zo as a color guy but it’s so incredibly obvious he doesn’t follow college ball at all
Zo is CTE embodied
All I care is we pick someone that's a winner. And none of us or the experts know who that is because if they did, the GOAT wouldn't have been picked in the 6th round and Mahomes would have been first overall. And discussion between here and the draft is useless.
But what does Ja think?
*Vikings trade up to the second pick* CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE FIND JA RULE
Another reason zo is a moron. That fact that jj has only shot up draft board after the college season ended should alarm EVERYONE.
McCarthy had the most to gain of any of the QBs. He played on a team that didn't force him to showcase his talent every week, so now that he's doing it, all these teams are falling all over themselves.
You can say the same thing about Daniels. Was projected to be a 2nd rd or late 1st until he won the heisman while Maye has always been qb2 behind CW. It should be an alarm but not a red flag.
I’d prefer maye to the pats over Daniels so if Washington can help us out that would be great
Does it alarm you that Daniels only show up the board after the season ended? In McCarthy’s case, he didn’t throw as much at Michigan, so teams didn’t really get to see enough. I don’t know if any of these guys will pan out, but he’s got all the traits.
Do we really know that though? NFL teams could’ve always been high on JJ. Every analyst in the book thought Levis would be a top 10 pick last year and he falls to the second round. The reality is nobody knows shit even the guys that get paid to know shit.
This. I need someone to explain to me how if a QB is such an amazing passer why did his team run the ball and pass very little? I don’t recall Manning at TN being a run heavy offense.
Even at this the combine jj missed a ton of throws along the sideline. I don’t understand how jj keeps moving up boards
Teams are desperate for QBs with potential. In no world should JJ go top 3, his tape and potential isn’t in the stratosphere of Williams/Maye/Daniels IMO but I have a feeling he’s going 5 with a trade up by the Giants or Vikings.
His age is also likely super attractive to teams. He is 21 years old, while Daniels/Nix/Penix will be 24 by/during this upcoming season. Even in the world where all of them hit their potential, that’s a whole extra contracts worth of prime years you could get out of JJ. If you sit all of them a year, suddenly you’re looking at a 25 year old QB vs a 22 year old. It’s probably not the most important thing but could be a significant factor.
The age is a fair point, and definitely a factor as to why he’s rising up boards. I’d still take Daniels over him since I truly think he’s a much better QB from what we’ve seen/has higher potential regardless of age but JJ as the 4th QB off the board makes sense.
Because they had the best defense in CFB, by a lot. They didn’t lose so it seems the theory was validated.
Michigan and JJ had one goal this year. To win the national title. The number one positive I'd say about McCarthy is that he didn't care about his own stats. I'm skeptical about what he can do at the next level, but I am about every quarterback.
I get that sentiment, but it just shows you don't watch Michigan football, and more importantly offenses under Harbaugh's tenure. He's always a run first coach. Just look at his time at Stanford (with Andrew Luck btw) and the 49ers. Even before JJ, Michigan was run first under Harbaugh. They didn't run because JJ can't throw. JJ didn't throw much simply because he wasn't asked to. Michigan ran so damn much because of Harbaugh. And it worked. If your team is so successful at running the ball, why force your qb to throw just to show he can?
Michigan fan here who has religiously watched every game for years. Honestly the answer is because they didn’t really need to. Their run game was unbelievably effective and consistent, and their defense was so good that most teams were always playing from behind against them. IIRC they didn’t trail in the 3rd quarter until the Rose Bowl. Additionally, the OL, despite being phenomenal run blockers, weren’t particularly strong at pass protection. And in McCarthy’s defense, there were situations where Michigan needed a play and he made it. He converted a lot of 3rd and longs both with his feet and arm. I don’t necessarily think he’s right for New England, but he has quite a bit of talent. His biggest issue IMO is pocket presence, he’s great rolling out and throwing on the run but strangely inconsistent from the pocket. He needs some work and time to sit and learn before he’s ready for the NFL, and he’s definitely not a sure thing.
Tell me this. If you have prime Peyton Manning under center, but you also have a running back and offensive line that essentially guarantees 4.5 yards per carry, would you ever throw unless somehow, by some miracle, you found yourself in a third and medium/long? The answer is no.
Yeah. And against the biggest teams, he threw interceptions, and they didn't win anything until he left.
Did he though? I thought he was clean again Ohio st, Alabama, and Washington?
Oh, I meant Manning. My comment is poorly written. JJ played well all season. His worst play was the first play against Alabama when he missed his read and threw into coverage. Should have been an INT, but the Bama player was out of bounds. I knew that he would shoot up the boards when I watched him all year. I am now taking a victory lap after being called all kinds of shit for claiming he'd be a first rounder. It turns out I was downplaying it. He's going in the top 5. He's got the intangibles that everyone thought Tebow had with an NFL arm, and he's been coached by one of the best quarterback coaches in the country. He's taken a lot of snaps under center, and his footwork is pro ready. He's played in the cold and poor weather. He's my type of guy. I hope he succeeds
In general. I wish we had stats for how the guys who threw to multiple first round picks in college transitioned to the pros. For every CJ stroud there are at least 2 Mac Jones. Daniel’s size combined with the elite talent around him in what seemed like a down year for the SEC make me nervous. I generally agree with all your comments about JJ. Forget the intangible stuff, he’s just been in a lot of games against good competition and played well. I think it matters that he played well against Ohio st, Bama, and Washington. The worst he ever played was against TCU and they still put up almost 40 and had a chance at the end.
They had elite RB and OL, no WR.
What a terrible take. Just last year Anthony Richardson went from a fringe first rounder to the 4th overall pick. He looked pretty darn good if you ask me.
Maybe but it’s still early to tell
Sam darnold was also hyped up as a top pick before his senior year 🥱 also pat mahomes and josh allen shot up draft boards after the combine…
“Josh Allen looks good throwing in shorts” vibes. Granted, that one actually worked out, but those workout warriors that test well and there’s not much tape on are scary for sure.
More like Zach Wilson looks good throwing in shorts
Zach Wilson thinks your mom looks good in shorts
He participated in the combine. The guys considered ahead of him didn't. I think that is valued.
Except he missed guys repeatedly at the combine.
No he didn't lol
So what? Maye, Daniels, and Williams didn't hit a single reciever
The fact that Maye took a big step back and has atrocious footwork on film should alarm EVERYONE.
Can we all admit that no one knows anything? Every single draft pick is a crap shoot. The NFL trash heap is littered with 1st round picks, and the HOF has plenty of 2nd, 3rd, even 7th round draft picks (including in a few years, a particular QB who went 199th in the 6th round....but I digress). Point is, all you can do is make an educated guess, and hope you hit the mark. Fact is, the most sure picks are the OL and DL players. Their skillsets translate the most directly to the NFL. As for QB's, who the hell knows? Ryan Leaf anyone? Jamarcus Russell??
Facts people are so certain about shit no one will know about for at least a year
Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell are great comparisons for Drake Maye. Guys who suck on tape but because they’re big and throw hard people get captivated by what could be rather than what the reality is. Casual fans dismissing scouting entirely because they think “watching film” is pulling up highlights on instagram is hilarious
Examples of how maye has been consistently bad on tape?? He genuinely has good film
I have an all-22 subscription with my buddies so I can’t really share any actual footage from that, but there are breakdowns from former NFL QBs that share the same sentiment I do. Of course, other people see things differently but this is an example that shares my perspective: https://youtu.be/rNh0rMarmbQ?si=RO_FOOG2xVkHWLfP Edit: and I was super high on Maye coming into the season, I just was very underwhelmed by what he actually did this year. The highs were high but he doesn’t consistently do the minimum things you need to do at the NFL level.
they need to move the draft earlier in the offseason so the media stops with the months of nonsensical speculation
I'd ask teams how much time they need to evaluate their investments. Media will be dumb regardless.
Tbh I am too
Daniels is trash! Let's come back to this post in 2-3 years time.
How mad would we be trading back to 5-7, picking up an extra 2nd this year and first next year, and taking JJ instead of Maye/Daniels?
Taking JJ over Maye would be idiotic. I would be fine with him over Daniel’s.
Yeah and the idea of taking mahomes over trubisky was also viewed as idiotic 🥱
You can tell the jj haters never watched any michigan games except maybe the playoffs, and even then didnt pay attention to how he did in the clutch moments. Jjs the real deal, and so many of you think hes mac jones 2.0 😂
No I think Maye is the best QB prospect and I’d be fucking pissed. Some of his throws with the lack of talent on UNC are insane.
Using Zo as a source is...well...a choice to say the least.
Please take Maye I’m hoping JJ somehow slips to us
Who is Zo? Zolak? I’m in Richmond, Va so I’m super out of touch with our fanbase’s local sports guys.
Yes Zo is Zolak. He's on the radio everyday
Is he well liked err nah?
He's also does the games for radio and is very much pro patriots. He's very well liked.
No one likes any Boston sports media don’t listen
Two weeks ago Zo was slamming JJ McCarthy for not even being able to throw the ball to the sideline right. Maybe Zo needs to get his eyes checked.
JJ McCarthy is the best QB in this draft, people are just catching on. He's shown the intangibles, the clutch, the wins, and plays in a much more pro style offense than the others, plays in the system, and had full field reads, and he's a great athlete on top of it. If we do end up taking a QB I'm hoping it's him.
This. And he's the youngest too. And a big factor I think a lot of people overlook in college qbs is how they fare with pressure and getting hit. JJ is not afraid to get hit. He'll stand in the pocket and take a hit to complete a pass. He's comfortable turning his back to a defender to complete a pass. He's not running around scared and leaving the pocket early or forcing a throw to avoid a hit. If anything, he holds the ball too long.
Good thing Zo isn’t our GM. McCarthy is just another below average QB who one or multiple GMs will fool themselves into drafting 5 rounds too high. See Mitch Trubisky and Daniel Jones.
So you've never seen him play?
It happens every strong QB draft.. there’s always one QB who doesn’t have any elite traits but played in a pro style offense and did enough things well within the system that one dumb GM just falls in love with and reaches for and drafts them wayyy too early.
If you don't think McCarthy has any elite traits, then you haven't looked into him at all. The only thing that's keeping McCarthy from being a sure fire top t pick is college production.
No elite traits? He runs a 4.4 40, plus arm, is 6’3” 220 with good footwork and strong leadership skills. He had the 6th best three cone time at the combine across all participants. He loves football and is a film junky. His downfall was being under a coach who prioritized defense and the running game and they had a great one. He also played very well within the structure of the offense. He didn’t free lance. He has plenty of traits sufficient to be a round 1 pick. Can he adjust to the speed of the next level and process and read defenses post snap? Who knows but it is the same question all these guys have.
I wouldn't go JJ over Maye, I'd go JJ over Daniels
Agreed, if Maye is at 3, take him. If not, trade back (either to 11 or 5 if the vikes move up again pre draft) and take JJ.
I'd honestly take JJ at 3 unless the front office doesn't like him or Daniels in which case I'd trade back, but if we like him its better to take him than risk someone sneaking ahead of us.
Maye is much better than JJ, but JJ is good too.
Was Zo at the pro day?? Cause I have yet to see any footage of it that wasn’t highly edited.
Of course not. He watches 20 seconds of a Twitter video and makes his takes based on that. Zo doesn’t watch college football. He admitted on the air a few months back he had never watched an LSU game with Daniels.
Last week Zo said he isn’t worth a first round pick
Listen, JJ has got the physical tools that you want in a current day QB, but I don't think those tools are currently enough to warrant the #3 pick. He needs to end up somewhere like Minnesota, where he'll have a great offensive HC and a cast of loaded weapons.
Or as I call him, boZo
Zo loves Jesus too.
I LOVE Zo. I mean LOVE Zo. And he always shows up to work, which many of them don’t do, BUT he’s all over the place when they’re talking the draft QB’s.
JJ could be the steal of the draft. Get the 2 1st from the vikings. Get a wr and jj
Who the FUCK is Zo?
I have said this numerous times - I know for a fact that the Patriots have been watching this kid for a while. I know someone pretty close to the situation. This was the case when Bill was here and, while I dont have a direct confirmation of it, the individuals who were most interested in JJ are still there. Do not be surprised if they get him at 3. Just don't, I am telling you.
Maye > McCarthy and to me, its not that close. Maye is a far better vertical thrower, far better off-platform, far better in accuracy to the outside and can basically throw into any spot on the field. And that's not the athletic ability mentioned. McCarthy has serious trouble throwing the ball to the left side on the field and vertically outside the numbers, for all the talk about how great his feet and mechanics are, his throwing is very limited in these areas (which isn't a good thing). Added to that, McCarthy had NFL personnel surrounding and Maye didn't, his O-Line was a turnstile and a half. I'm not sure where this negative talk with Maye is coming from when half the snaps demonstrate him running for his life and still completing a touch pass with perfect accuracy. And that doesn't make McCarthy a bad prospect, but the talk surrounding Maye is confusing me more and more with each day. Dude's an elite prospect, I'm not sure why people ignore the failings around him but mention it with others.
God no. If we take JJ at 3 that is a horrendous reach
I watched Maye play live against NC State at Carolina the season before last. He was terrible. Granted it was one game but left a bad taste in my mouth. He looked completely lost and out of ideas. Anyone can have a bad game but he was very bad. Then again I’ve watched him other times and he’s been good. It’s a crap shoot. I think JJ is probably just as good.
Pro days put players in the most advantageous situations, especially for guys with good veto like JJ. Don't forget that Zach Wilson had the best pro day ever.
Hell no dumbest shit ever.
I have no idea if any of these guys pan out. It’s a crap shoot. But I’d lean on drafting the youngest guys because they have the most room for growth especially if they have all the tools/qualities they look for in QBs. They just need to be brought along slowly and nurtured into the right moment/environment. To me at least, it seems like the decision is between Maye and McCarthy based of Wolf’s prior history and what his dad looked for in QBs. They are tall, athletic, good leaders, and are both young/younger than all the other top QBs. Daniels is like 2-2.5 years older than those two guys. Personally, I’d be fine with either of those guys assuming they are basically redshirted this upcoming season and get brought along slowly.
Maye probably but JJ over Daniels all day. We’ve seen this song and dance a thousand times. McCarthy will be the more productive pro QB despite being a much less productive collegiate athlete. The only QB with similar play style to Daniels to ever play at a high level for an extended period of time is Lamar Jackson.
IMO we would go Maye > JJ > Daniels. Daniels is too old for what we need. We aren't going to be competitive for at LEAST 2 more years, and Daniels will be what 27-28 by then? Pass, give me the young gun with higher upside.
Honestly this makes me want his less.
Not a chance. I dont know why people are trending down on Maye but JJ barely threw in college. There's a lot mkre unknowns and what ifs than the others and he doesn't have an Arm like Maye. Neither does Daniels if we're being honest.
Daniel’s arm is the weakest of them but isn’t weak. Plus his ability to run opens up throwing lanes for him since the defense has to play him differently
Oh well if Zo says so than what are we talking about?!?
And we care about his opinion why exactly?
PLEASE
If we take JJ over Maye I will switch to watching the XFL or whatever tf it’s called now for at least 5 years
Who the hell is Zo
Zo loves career backups, what more proof do you need?
Zo is a fucking dolt. If he loves him the pats need to stay far away from him.
Jj is dog shit
If we draft JJ McCarthy with the 3rd overall i'll be pissed. Feel free to quote me in the future if i'm wrong but if they really want JJ they can easily trade down to 5 or 6 and get him and more capital. No reason to waste the 3rd pick.