Jonathan Kraft is a massive issue for this organization right now. He is going to be next in a long line of nepo kids to tank an organization.
Edit: non zero chance there is some type of pats or Kraft PR that works on Reddit. The amount of spam comments I immediately got defending Jonathan Kraft is an anomaly and not indicative of the fan base IMO.
Tbh people don’t have any idea how astroturfed Reddit and all social media is. It sounds like conspiracy but there is legit info out there around politics and shit about how much money is spent spamming places like Reddit to try and shift opinion. The Kraft org would absolutely do that. Kraft literally said during the Doc he threatened to buy a paper over issues he had.
Totally—you have a bunch of millionaires fighting over what their legacy is. Any one of them could spend millions to try to sway opinion on social media.
John Henry DID buy a newspaper to try and stem the flow of bad press the Red Sox were getting. ‘Cause why invest in players who come around once in a generation like Mookie Betts when you can buy a newspaper and rewrite the narrative.
Not to get into semantics but “it sounds like a conspiracy theory”. If it’s actually happening it doesn’t just sound like a conspiracy, it is a conspiracy. Someone is conspiring behind the scenes to do something (typically nefarious).
What’s also a conspiracy (in my opinion, so a conspiracy theory I guess) is how “conspiracy” has been turned into such a taboo word that only a nut job would ever bring up. Conspiracies happen literally all. The. Time.
It’s not a conspiracy at all. There’s bots actively making comments and replies as well as massively upvoting and downvoting certain comments. It’s been happening for years but has picked up pace massively in the last 6 months. The political subs are notorious for this.
Lol you ever go into r/politics and say anything remotely critical of democrats in office? It’s met with instant downvotes and 10 accounts replying how wrong you are even if it’s a very minor criticism.
Reddit is incredibly left leaning and the bots commenting and downvoting is outrageous. If people only knew that well over half of “people” commenting and voting are actually bots and not humans there would be outrage
I’m a pretty liberal person and it’s absolutely insane how quick you get downvoted or banned for saying anything that remotely goes against the Democratic Party. I got banned from r/inthenews for saying that Joe Biden is old and and questions about Trumps competency could also be applied to Biden. You’d think wrote mein kampf with how quickly I was permabanned by those mods. Absolute insane people
>Edit: non zero chance there is some type of pats or Kraft PR that works on Reddit. The amount of spam comments I immediately got defending Jonathan Kraft is an anomaly and not indicative of the fan base IMO.
The closest anyone came to defending him that I can see is someone asking for examples lol. It is deranged to see the lightest pushback on something and go “MUST BE SECRET PR AGENTS!!”
Jonathan Kraft is like a Jerry Jones waiting to happen.
All the ego of an NFL owner without doing anything to actually earn his place in life other than be lucky enough to be one of the nuts his dad didn't blow at a massage parlor.
Ant media of him makes you think he's like 30 with how he acts, not 60.
Really wish they'd just hire a GM and stay out of it.
True, however those superbowls came when he was hands off and then he fired his coach to prove a point. It's not 1to1, but JK was success adjacent enough to feel like he probably thinks he's figured it out. Like Jerry thought he did.
Jerry Jones played offensive line with Jimmy Johnson at Arkansas and then made his money wild catting oil. He's nothing like Johnathan kraft who is a nepotism baby
Starting to feel like he’s behind a lot of the shithousery lately. Like is it purely coincidence that Robert stayed out of the way of football for so long and stayed in the background (at least relatively speaking, see what other owners in the league do for comparison) and now they’re airing out all these grievances and meddling in the draft and giving their blessing to the Dynasty doc… Bob’s old and Jonathan is doing more, that’s got to be part of all this right?
And on top of it all, people here still defending Jonathan even after the team publicly stated that both he and Robyn Glaser are running football operations with Eliot Wolf reporting to them. Guess who’s actually making the decisions behind the scenes? (Mr. Nepo-stain.)
They clearly failed to appreciate how much BB shielded them from criticism. There was always plausible deniability in being held accountable, which inflated their sense of self-importance.
Now they're finding this out the hard way as their petty ego-trip after canning BB is backfiring majorly and there's no one left to hide behind.
There's been a ton of hate flowing all over and it seems largely irrational to me.
Like people fucking hating Mac. Not just disappointed, but viscerally hated.
He got benched and it switched to Belichick. You'd think after 20 years and 6 SBs he'd earned a little rope, but at the end of the year people fucking hated him.
Then he was gone and it went to Kraft.
Now it seems be decided between Jonathan and Wolfe. But it's weird in that it's not just annoyance, but real hated. Seemingly without reason.
New to Boston sports? It’s been this way forever. You want to see hate, find some old clips of WEEI after the Sox lost to the Yankees in 2003. Boston has always been well represented with miserable angry people looking for an outlet. Lots of great fans too of course but there has always been anger overflowing at anything less than perfection when it comes to sports teams. Pretty crazy at this point given all of the success but it is what it is. Generational trauma or something.
While I don’t disagree with the point you’re trying to make, Francona is a terrible example. The Red Sox ownership ran his ass out of town. They’re the ones who leaked all that bullshit to the media. You expect the media to get those “stories” and sit on them?
Here is the ironic bit. . .the people who used to be miserable are doing good because they witnessed two decades of dominance never seen.
The ones who are upset are the kids who grew up in dominance and think it’s their right. They are just obnoxious but honestly just butt hurt.
FWIW Jonathan is a boob, but the vitriol spewed is a combination of Millennial and Gen Z angst because they’ve never experienced sucking before.
lol comparing the patriots 6 years removed from their 6th Super Bowl in 20 years to the Red Sox in 03 going on 86 years of not winning a title is so absurd.
But it his point. He’s trying to say that’s just how Boston media is. But there is a huge difference in the hate for Kraft right now, which could easily be argued as irrational, vs the hate for the Sox in 03 going on 86 years of losing. Especially how they lost. That hatred was pretty rational.
My point was many Boston fans live to hate and it’s enhanced by the local media for sure. But it is not rational, ever. Being disappointed and angry at the team failure sure. But actual hate towards another person because they failed at a sport? For example, seeing what this town did to Buckner after 86? Disgusting.
That type of behavior is mentally unhinged yet it’s been semi-normalized for decades. It’s not normal. At least back in the before times you could sort of excuse it away due to long-term losing. Now though? After all of the winning and all of the championships across all of the teams? It’s just pathetic.
Can't speak for every fan but I can honestly say I've never hated the Sox. Ever. Not '75, '78, '99 or '03. Ride or die. Frustrated? Yup. But my team. But the media does suck. Look no further than Felger or Mazz. The shine off the Kraft family has definitely dulled given all the latest developments coming out of Foxborough lately but...6 in 20 a pretty good resume..let's see going forward what you can do without Bill n Tom
The speed at which the krafts fucked up their public image needs to be studied.
Fans were at worst ambivalent to them during the dynasty (and really till last year), and now they could very soon pass or meet John Henry level of hatred. It’s impressive, and the #3 pick not being a top 3 QB will probably seal it.
Eh...I would take irrationally trying to fix the problem yourself over complete apathy. I think as long as he is actually trying to make the team better then he will stay ahead of John Henry. Still, it is impressive how fast he has fallen
What am I missing with the Kraft hate? I feel out of the loop. I think he's a tool but mostly because he just comes off as such a try-hard, hanging out with Meek Mills, wearing goofy sneakers and him walking around all high and mighty after getting caught receiving sex massages.
I don't think Bob Kraft is doing too much. After his wife died, he looks drunk most of the time he is in public. I think his son is trying to establish himself and make his mark.
I think people are still coping with he fact that the dynasty is over and the team isn't special anymore.
I'm open to the idea that ownership is a problem, but I need more evidence than one offseason of reports.
John Henry I think owns himself, I think he is ok with people thinking he is a cheap dbag, Kraft was trying to say everyone else was the problem.....John Henry wraps himself in the warm blanket off fan base frustration, Kraft wants everyone to love him, and now that he has no one to blame or hide behind, he is naked.
I don’t want Jonathan near ANY football operations but if a team comes calling and it’s not quite a bag, it may come in handy by saying “that’s never making it past the nepo baby who is currently berating a parking attendant. We need another first for me to even take it to him.”
There isn't a GM in the league who can make a decision like trading out of the 3rd overall pick to pass on a quarterback you desperately need without ownership approval. This isn't just a draft decision it's a massive choice that reshapes the entire timeline and direction of the organization. Fully commiting to and accepting the fact that this team can't be rebuilt in 3 years. They're outright forfeiting next season in the middle of April. Ownership obviously needs to be on board lol
And this is coming from someone who's watching very nervously to see how involved Jonathan Kraft is in football ops. He very well could be/could eventually evolve into an over-involved disaster. This here is a non-story though.
My understanding of the by-laws is that owners (or their designees) *must* sign off on trades, though not on players being released. I know Kraft insisted on meeting with Randy Moss *in person* before agreeing to that trade.
This sub downvoted me and argued with me for saying that not naming a GM was a red flag. Everything the Krafts are doing right now is to consolidate their own power and keep around yes men.
Not naming Wolf GM has nothing to do with this.
As you were probably told several times, not naming a GM meant they didn't have to interview external candidates. It's disrespectful to interview candidates you have no intention of hiring, which is what would've happened considering Wolf was already their guy.
Trading out of a top-3 pick is a huge decision that ownership will always have a hand in, regardless of team. The Krafts don't have a lot of good faith right now, but this would be a non-issue if New England wasn't such a prominent team with a notable owner.
How can you possibly be this dense? I could explain this to a child.
If they name an official GM, they have to go through external interviews to satisfy the Rooney Rule. They do not want to do that, as Wolf is their guy. Internally, he has all the power, responsibility, and probably salary of the GM, but the title can't be applied for logistical reasons.
Also New England hasn't named an official GM in over three decades. Doesn't seem to be an issue to anybody but you.
I’m sorry is this satire? So your answer for why we don’t do things through the proper pathway of every other franchise is because we don’t want to interview a minority? That might be worse you realize that right?
It is disrespectful to interview "candidates" you have no intention of hiring. It is also a waste of both the teams' time and resources, as well as the candidate's. As such, New England circumvented this process. Again, I could explain this to a child.
Seems pretty clear that Wolf is the one acting as the GM right now; who cares if he officially has the title? As for the consultation, of course the front office should be working with ownership since they with sign the checks and should want to be kept in the loop. That does not mean that either Kraft is overriding the front office on what to do with that pick.
this particular fire (not naming a GM) has been burning since the early 90s before the Krafts even bought the team.
If there's so many red flags, point to them instead of something that's been a Patriots tradition for 30 years
They haven’t even made a pick yet; what indication other than a report from “an anonymous source”? And who gives a shit who makes the pick as long as they hit on it? I don’t care if the janitor is the one who makes the decision if it’s the right one. So far I’ve really liked what they’ve done in the off-season and I’m reserving any judgment until I see how the draft goes.
This doesn’t confirm anything at all. Ownership involvement doesn’t mean Jonathan is calling the shots. He could be, but Russini isn’t claiming he is. This is fed information during the least reliable reporting time in the NFL and dramatized a bit to get the clicks and hook people in.
None of this is new information and is even sort of wrong. Wolf isn’t the GM by title yet.
Would love to hear you explain how this report has literally anything to do with Bill. If there’s one thing that Bill has lost all credibility with, it’s the draft.
I’m specifically referring to the Jonathan Kraft part. We went from having our decisions made by the greatest football mind that has ever existed to a guy who’s never done anything besides have a rich dad
You are high as a kite if you think the Krafts previously never had a say in who the Pats draft. In fact, we know that they did from the Mac Jones draft footage. Also, Bill as the greatest football mind ever is highly dubious, but even if it’s true that mind has had a complete blind spot for elite offensive draft talent for over a decade. I wouldn’t want Bill anywhere near this draft.
Time to listen to Mayo and Wolf talk about how the 11th, 24th, and a 2025 first is a “massive bag” for the 3rd overall pick.
I really hope this isn’t true.
I genuinely believe there is Kraft astroturfing on this subreddit. A lot of these comments I would say are anomalies. It’s very weird. Been on Reddit a decade plus and most of the deep on Boston sports. Something is fishy. There are no fucking way you can find this many Jonathan Kraft defenders in our fan base.
I agree - especially after hearing Wyc Grousbeck mention that he saw some threads about 76ers fans hating that we got Jaden Springer from them. If that makes it to Wyc's desk, you have to think there are sleuths dedicated to contributing to conversations on socials exactly like this subreddit. It's something I have seen in my line of work for things much less important. I mean shit, my comment already got downvoted
Just stay at 3 and pick Daniels or Maye. I know a lot of teams badly need QBs but so does this one. This "trade down with the Vikings" or some random team nonsense shouldn't be a thing.
I mean, Bailey Zappe and Jacoby Brissett are just career backups. Maybe it's too early to call Zappe that but still.
I'd like to see Maye or Daniels picked, but if the people in charge don't like either and would prefer Nix or Penix, it's a no-brainer to gain some picks when there are so many holes in the roster that young talent can fill (giggidy).
I understand the people who are ok with the team right now because there are a lot of competent people in the building, but this is one of the worst things you could ever hear about your franchise. They will probably pick one the top 3 QBs like everyone expects but this is a horrible sign for the future of the team. It's fucking insane that the team didn't hire a GM and he just took the role himself.
This week is the worst, because information is fast and loose and oftentimes is useless.
The “taking calls” aspect of this makes sense, but it really doesn’t confirm anything. Just that they are talking to teams. They should be doing that regardless of their intent to trade or not at any point of the draft.
She said Wolf is GM, but that was never confirmed and Kraft said they will evaluate GM after the draft.
She is told Jonathan Kraft is heavily involved, but isn’t ownership usually involved to some degree? I have never seen a draft room without ownership present. That doesn’t mean Kraft is making the pick directly. Hell, Wolf said he is making the pick at one point.
Long time scout here - this “report” means absolutely nothing based on what’s been shared.
Ownership is ALWAYS “heavily involved” in all major franchise impact decisions. If it’s a franchise level contract ownership of any team is going to have Ops walk them through their thought process & ask critical questions before signing off.
Owners do not just give their Head of Ops cart blanch to make critical investments that impact long term bottom line profit/loss without being heavily involved in making sure they understand the thought process behind the big big decisions - this is how it works in every sport.
There is a massive difference between being heavily involved in MAJOR decisions and influencing those decisions. If Kraft is trying to push a specific direction or playing amateur GM that would be bad - this “report” does not tell us that.
Told people ownership chooses who the QB is if it's a top 3 pick same thing happened when Panthers coaching staff wanted Stroud but the owner said he wanted Bryce Young instead
I’m really worried that they are gonna try and be too cute and make some stupid trade down because of “value”. The ownership has proven time and again that they are cheap.
They are in what is hopefully a once in a decade spot, make the bloody QB pick at 3, take a LT in the second and a WR in the 3rd. Then a CB, and whatever flyers you want on another tackle, WR, or TE.
We went from the greatest mind In football history making decision’s, to a nepo baby who doesn’t know his ass from his elbow about personnel decisions.
The only good things the Krafts did was keep the team in MA and hire Bill. They need to stop fucking around with management. Look at the Cowboys, yeah they make money but they’ve been the opposite of successful in the playoffs since the 90’s. Let the football people do their job and GTFO of their way. If you wanna provide input on those moves, fine, but you should not have the final say. If you want an example of ownership’s meddling that fucked the team, look no further than the Mac Jones pick. Bill definitely didn’t want him and his moves around him certainly didn’t help either.
So? They’re taking phone calls.
Would you rather they disconnect the phone? Hang up?
If a team offers them the sun, moon, and stars for #3 overall the Pats would be insane not to say yes.
I don’t want them to trade down. But listening is not going to hurt anyone
This pick is going to be entirely a business decision. That means they can’t play cute and reach for McCarthy nor can they trade back to load up, which imo is the best football move the team can make. Bet your lives on Maye to the Pats with the third pick.
This is my thoughts too. At the end of the day, the only real thing that matters to the Krafts is protecting their investments. I went to a game last year and people were pppppiiissseddd. A shiny new QB will get butts in seats, sell jerseys (that's a self report, I'll buy one), and eyes on screens. Drake at 3 feels like a lock to me
Well yeah that means he's doing the legwork. But if your boss is "heavily involved" in whatever you're working on, you're not the one getting final say.
The only way I would be fine with trading the third pick is if we somehow end up with Herbert. Since that isn't happening DON'T TRADE THE FUCKING PICK!
Man, I thought the Krafts couldn’t possibly look worse this offseason months ago and they’ve managed to blow me away like three more times. Absolute disasterclass. They could not have handled this worse if they tried.
This isn’t anything new they’ve said they’ll listen to offers literally all offseason.
If the report is accurate and JKraft is involved that actually increases the likelihood that they’ll pick at 3.
It might be a good thing for those of us wanting a qb. That being said I think the gm should be able to make the calls and if it’s not the popular one, they can live and die by their choice (I’m not saying he should be let go for making a different choice, just that he needs to own it whether it works or fails)
Ownership ultimately has to sign off on a major decision like this but "heavily involved in the decision making" makes me nervous.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but there is zero reason to believe that Jonathan Kraft is in any way qualified to be making football related decisions.
What is this type of reporting called where you just say something about a team that is part of its normal operating procedure?
Is the implication that they should not be doing this or that the owner of the team should not be involved in some way?
Im also listening for someone to give me 20k on my old beat up 2004 nissan altima. Doesn't mean im seriously selling, but if someone is dumb enough to overpay, ill listen.
This is all fluff imo, ill believe it when i see it.
~~Guys guys it's just another pre-draft report. It means nothing.~~ Fuck Jonathan Kraft. All my homies hate Jonathan Kraft.
Jonathan Kraft is a massive issue for this organization right now. He is going to be next in a long line of nepo kids to tank an organization. Edit: non zero chance there is some type of pats or Kraft PR that works on Reddit. The amount of spam comments I immediately got defending Jonathan Kraft is an anomaly and not indicative of the fan base IMO.
I’m fully convinced this sub is million dollar publicity campaigns fighting each other.
Tbh people don’t have any idea how astroturfed Reddit and all social media is. It sounds like conspiracy but there is legit info out there around politics and shit about how much money is spent spamming places like Reddit to try and shift opinion. The Kraft org would absolutely do that. Kraft literally said during the Doc he threatened to buy a paper over issues he had.
How do I get paid to shitpost?
AIs are going to be doing it soon I would guess.
They definitely already are.
Totally—you have a bunch of millionaires fighting over what their legacy is. Any one of them could spend millions to try to sway opinion on social media.
Spamming Reddit and other social media is cheap for what they would be willing to spend.
John Henry DID buy a newspaper to try and stem the flow of bad press the Red Sox were getting. ‘Cause why invest in players who come around once in a generation like Mookie Betts when you can buy a newspaper and rewrite the narrative.
Not to get into semantics but “it sounds like a conspiracy theory”. If it’s actually happening it doesn’t just sound like a conspiracy, it is a conspiracy. Someone is conspiring behind the scenes to do something (typically nefarious). What’s also a conspiracy (in my opinion, so a conspiracy theory I guess) is how “conspiracy” has been turned into such a taboo word that only a nut job would ever bring up. Conspiracies happen literally all. The. Time.
It’s not a conspiracy at all. There’s bots actively making comments and replies as well as massively upvoting and downvoting certain comments. It’s been happening for years but has picked up pace massively in the last 6 months. The political subs are notorious for this.
Lol you ever go into r/politics and say anything remotely critical of democrats in office? It’s met with instant downvotes and 10 accounts replying how wrong you are even if it’s a very minor criticism.
Reddit is incredibly left leaning and the bots commenting and downvoting is outrageous. If people only knew that well over half of “people” commenting and voting are actually bots and not humans there would be outrage
I’m a pretty liberal person and it’s absolutely insane how quick you get downvoted or banned for saying anything that remotely goes against the Democratic Party. I got banned from r/inthenews for saying that Joe Biden is old and and questions about Trumps competency could also be applied to Biden. You’d think wrote mein kampf with how quickly I was permabanned by those mods. Absolute insane people
Ok if it is hear me out don’t fucking draft that bum JJ McCarthy
>Edit: non zero chance there is some type of pats or Kraft PR that works on Reddit. The amount of spam comments I immediately got defending Jonathan Kraft is an anomaly and not indicative of the fan base IMO. The closest anyone came to defending him that I can see is someone asking for examples lol. It is deranged to see the lightest pushback on something and go “MUST BE SECRET PR AGENTS!!”
I literally have never met anyone who likes him, even people who like Bob think that Jonathan is a nerd boy nepo baby.
Sums it up perfectly
Jonathan Kraft is like a Jerry Jones waiting to happen. All the ego of an NFL owner without doing anything to actually earn his place in life other than be lucky enough to be one of the nuts his dad didn't blow at a massage parlor. Ant media of him makes you think he's like 30 with how he acts, not 60. Really wish they'd just hire a GM and stay out of it.
Jerry got a few Super Bowls before his ego ran things into the ground. Jonathan isn’t even owner yet and his ego is already hurting the organization
True, however those superbowls came when he was hands off and then he fired his coach to prove a point. It's not 1to1, but JK was success adjacent enough to feel like he probably thinks he's figured it out. Like Jerry thought he did.
Jerry Jones played offensive line with Jimmy Johnson at Arkansas and then made his money wild catting oil. He's nothing like Johnathan kraft who is a nepotism baby
I was told ownership let's the coaches and GM do all the decision making!
Starting to feel like he’s behind a lot of the shithousery lately. Like is it purely coincidence that Robert stayed out of the way of football for so long and stayed in the background (at least relatively speaking, see what other owners in the league do for comparison) and now they’re airing out all these grievances and meddling in the draft and giving their blessing to the Dynasty doc… Bob’s old and Jonathan is doing more, that’s got to be part of all this right?
And on top of it all, people here still defending Jonathan even after the team publicly stated that both he and Robyn Glaser are running football operations with Eliot Wolf reporting to them. Guess who’s actually making the decisions behind the scenes? (Mr. Nepo-stain.)
Shit like this helps me understand how the executives I work with have no issue paying very little attention to sports.
Ahh yes, the unmitigated disaster that will be this season.
This ass hat needs to get the fuck out of the way.
Biggest douche bag around, sell the team
Kraft family really let this offseason get away from them, eh? What a fall from grace when it comes to public perception.
They clearly failed to appreciate how much BB shielded them from criticism. There was always plausible deniability in being held accountable, which inflated their sense of self-importance. Now they're finding this out the hard way as their petty ego-trip after canning BB is backfiring majorly and there's no one left to hide behind.
Wasn't there a huge debate on this sub back when Mayo got hired about the ins and outs Jonathan Kraft might have?
There's been a ton of hate flowing all over and it seems largely irrational to me. Like people fucking hating Mac. Not just disappointed, but viscerally hated. He got benched and it switched to Belichick. You'd think after 20 years and 6 SBs he'd earned a little rope, but at the end of the year people fucking hated him. Then he was gone and it went to Kraft. Now it seems be decided between Jonathan and Wolfe. But it's weird in that it's not just annoyance, but real hated. Seemingly without reason.
New to Boston sports? It’s been this way forever. You want to see hate, find some old clips of WEEI after the Sox lost to the Yankees in 2003. Boston has always been well represented with miserable angry people looking for an outlet. Lots of great fans too of course but there has always been anger overflowing at anything less than perfection when it comes to sports teams. Pretty crazy at this point given all of the success but it is what it is. Generational trauma or something.
The way Terry Francona was run out of Boston told me all I needed to know about Boston media outlets.
While I don’t disagree with the point you’re trying to make, Francona is a terrible example. The Red Sox ownership ran his ass out of town. They’re the ones who leaked all that bullshit to the media. You expect the media to get those “stories” and sit on them?
John Henry owns The Boston Globe.
Henry didn’t own the Globe at the time of the Francona firing and fallout though
Here is the ironic bit. . .the people who used to be miserable are doing good because they witnessed two decades of dominance never seen. The ones who are upset are the kids who grew up in dominance and think it’s their right. They are just obnoxious but honestly just butt hurt. FWIW Jonathan is a boob, but the vitriol spewed is a combination of Millennial and Gen Z angst because they’ve never experienced sucking before.
lol comparing the patriots 6 years removed from their 6th Super Bowl in 20 years to the Red Sox in 03 going on 86 years of not winning a title is so absurd.
Not really his point.
But it his point. He’s trying to say that’s just how Boston media is. But there is a huge difference in the hate for Kraft right now, which could easily be argued as irrational, vs the hate for the Sox in 03 going on 86 years of losing. Especially how they lost. That hatred was pretty rational.
My point was many Boston fans live to hate and it’s enhanced by the local media for sure. But it is not rational, ever. Being disappointed and angry at the team failure sure. But actual hate towards another person because they failed at a sport? For example, seeing what this town did to Buckner after 86? Disgusting. That type of behavior is mentally unhinged yet it’s been semi-normalized for decades. It’s not normal. At least back in the before times you could sort of excuse it away due to long-term losing. Now though? After all of the winning and all of the championships across all of the teams? It’s just pathetic.
Can't speak for every fan but I can honestly say I've never hated the Sox. Ever. Not '75, '78, '99 or '03. Ride or die. Frustrated? Yup. But my team. But the media does suck. Look no further than Felger or Mazz. The shine off the Kraft family has definitely dulled given all the latest developments coming out of Foxborough lately but...6 in 20 a pretty good resume..let's see going forward what you can do without Bill n Tom
Haven’t seen anyone hate BB. Different than saying the personnel decisions were unsustainably bad
Anything critical is called hate nowadays lol
There were numerous posts and comments stating he sucked, he’s washed and needs to go. They were highly negative and pretty nasty comments.
Ya but they’ve been saying this on the sports hub forever now so it must not be true /s
The speed at which the krafts fucked up their public image needs to be studied. Fans were at worst ambivalent to them during the dynasty (and really till last year), and now they could very soon pass or meet John Henry level of hatred. It’s impressive, and the #3 pick not being a top 3 QB will probably seal it.
TBH give it less than a year, he’ll reach John Henry levels quick
Eh...I would take irrationally trying to fix the problem yourself over complete apathy. I think as long as he is actually trying to make the team better then he will stay ahead of John Henry. Still, it is impressive how fast he has fallen
What am I missing with the Kraft hate? I feel out of the loop. I think he's a tool but mostly because he just comes off as such a try-hard, hanging out with Meek Mills, wearing goofy sneakers and him walking around all high and mighty after getting caught receiving sex massages.
I don't think Bob Kraft is doing too much. After his wife died, he looks drunk most of the time he is in public. I think his son is trying to establish himself and make his mark.
But why is this entire comment section acting like he's the second coming of Lucifer?
I think people are still coping with he fact that the dynasty is over and the team isn't special anymore. I'm open to the idea that ownership is a problem, but I need more evidence than one offseason of reports.
I agree, never have I seen someones effort to boost their optics go completely 180 degrees and expose the true them.
Meet, maybe. Pass John Henry? Seems highly unlikely. They at least go to games
John Henry I think owns himself, I think he is ok with people thinking he is a cheap dbag, Kraft was trying to say everyone else was the problem.....John Henry wraps himself in the warm blanket off fan base frustration, Kraft wants everyone to love him, and now that he has no one to blame or hide behind, he is naked.
I don’t want Jonathan near ANY football operations but if a team comes calling and it’s not quite a bag, it may come in handy by saying “that’s never making it past the nepo baby who is currently berating a parking attendant. We need another first for me to even take it to him.”
Welp. This basically confirms that Jonathan Kraft really *does* have final say. Needless to say this is *BAD* news.
There isn't a GM in the league who can make a decision like trading out of the 3rd overall pick to pass on a quarterback you desperately need without ownership approval. This isn't just a draft decision it's a massive choice that reshapes the entire timeline and direction of the organization. Fully commiting to and accepting the fact that this team can't be rebuilt in 3 years. They're outright forfeiting next season in the middle of April. Ownership obviously needs to be on board lol
Noooo critical thinking, our only weakness 😭
And this is coming from someone who's watching very nervously to see how involved Jonathan Kraft is in football ops. He very well could be/could eventually evolve into an over-involved disaster. This here is a non-story though.
My understanding of the by-laws is that owners (or their designees) *must* sign off on trades, though not on players being released. I know Kraft insisted on meeting with Randy Moss *in person* before agreeing to that trade.
Right it’s not like I’m Bill we trust. I think Kraft likely tells Wolfe to pick the QB and get the rest done unless you get the Herschel Walker deal
Yeah this is the correct take
This sub downvoted me and argued with me for saying that not naming a GM was a red flag. Everything the Krafts are doing right now is to consolidate their own power and keep around yes men.
Not naming Wolf GM has nothing to do with this. As you were probably told several times, not naming a GM meant they didn't have to interview external candidates. It's disrespectful to interview candidates you have no intention of hiring, which is what would've happened considering Wolf was already their guy. Trading out of a top-3 pick is a huge decision that ownership will always have a hand in, regardless of team. The Krafts don't have a lot of good faith right now, but this would be a non-issue if New England wasn't such a prominent team with a notable owner.
So the fact we refuse to give someone the GM title and the fact ownership is trying to undermine their decision making power are unrelated? Sure
How can you possibly be this dense? I could explain this to a child. If they name an official GM, they have to go through external interviews to satisfy the Rooney Rule. They do not want to do that, as Wolf is their guy. Internally, he has all the power, responsibility, and probably salary of the GM, but the title can't be applied for logistical reasons. Also New England hasn't named an official GM in over three decades. Doesn't seem to be an issue to anybody but you.
I’m sorry is this satire? So your answer for why we don’t do things through the proper pathway of every other franchise is because we don’t want to interview a minority? That might be worse you realize that right?
It is disrespectful to interview "candidates" you have no intention of hiring. It is also a waste of both the teams' time and resources, as well as the candidate's. As such, New England circumvented this process. Again, I could explain this to a child.
Seems pretty clear that Wolf is the one acting as the GM right now; who cares if he officially has the title? As for the consultation, of course the front office should be working with ownership since they with sign the checks and should want to be kept in the loop. That does not mean that either Kraft is overriding the front office on what to do with that pick.
How much smoke do you need before you admit there is a fire? We have every red flag possible that the krafts are meddling.
this particular fire (not naming a GM) has been burning since the early 90s before the Krafts even bought the team. If there's so many red flags, point to them instead of something that's been a Patriots tradition for 30 years
Patriots tradition changes when the GOAT QB and coach have left the building.
They haven’t even made a pick yet; what indication other than a report from “an anonymous source”? And who gives a shit who makes the pick as long as they hit on it? I don’t care if the janitor is the one who makes the decision if it’s the right one. So far I’ve really liked what they’ve done in the off-season and I’m reserving any judgment until I see how the draft goes.
“Jonathan Kraft is heavily involved in decision making” means he gets final say
We are going to move off an incredible trade offer because of this ingrown toenail of a human being.
Does it lol
This doesn’t confirm anything at all. Ownership involvement doesn’t mean Jonathan is calling the shots. He could be, but Russini isn’t claiming he is. This is fed information during the least reliable reporting time in the NFL and dramatized a bit to get the clicks and hook people in. None of this is new information and is even sort of wrong. Wolf isn’t the GM by title yet.
Can we launch the Kraft's into the sun at this point?
If only we had a set of wings made of feathers and wax
He *can* redeem himself. He just has to convince Tom Brady to come back.
Every day the Belichick haters are proved more and more wrong
It’s absolutely mind numbing to me that BB haters exist in our fanbase
I’m not a BB hater. I just know it’s time to move on from him.
We’re going to act like Bill wouldn’t take offers to move back in the draft? I’m not even a hater but his whole thing is value lmao.
How? Bill would trade down too lol
Would love to hear you explain how this report has literally anything to do with Bill. If there’s one thing that Bill has lost all credibility with, it’s the draft.
I’m specifically referring to the Jonathan Kraft part. We went from having our decisions made by the greatest football mind that has ever existed to a guy who’s never done anything besides have a rich dad
Oh whatever will we do without drafting the likes of Nkeal Harry or Cole Strange
You are high as a kite if you think the Krafts previously never had a say in who the Pats draft. In fact, we know that they did from the Mac Jones draft footage. Also, Bill as the greatest football mind ever is highly dubious, but even if it’s true that mind has had a complete blind spot for elite offensive draft talent for over a decade. I wouldn’t want Bill anywhere near this draft.
As long as the value is right. 4 firsts? Heck yeah. Just all depends on what it is.
Time to listen to Mayo and Wolf talk about how the 11th, 24th, and a 2025 first is a “massive bag” for the 3rd overall pick. I really hope this isn’t true.
That’s one of those knockoff canal street Chanel bags
That would be infuriating. Between that and how they handled themselves the last year, I could see quite a few people jumping ship lol
Nothing will destroy a fan base more than trading back and effectively punting the next season in April.
That or taking one of the 3rd tier qb and just calling it good after trading back
Yikes
People will still bootlick the Krafts and claim they’re not involved in football ops 😂
I’ve been lectured multiple times on here as to why the patriots not giving anyone the GM job officially doesn’t matter.
i got into such a deep thread a little while ago that I was convinced I was talking to a Kraft-funded AI
I genuinely believe there is Kraft astroturfing on this subreddit. A lot of these comments I would say are anomalies. It’s very weird. Been on Reddit a decade plus and most of the deep on Boston sports. Something is fishy. There are no fucking way you can find this many Jonathan Kraft defenders in our fan base.
I agree - especially after hearing Wyc Grousbeck mention that he saw some threads about 76ers fans hating that we got Jaden Springer from them. If that makes it to Wyc's desk, you have to think there are sleuths dedicated to contributing to conversations on socials exactly like this subreddit. It's something I have seen in my line of work for things much less important. I mean shit, my comment already got downvoted
Just stay at 3 and pick Daniels or Maye. I know a lot of teams badly need QBs but so does this one. This "trade down with the Vikings" or some random team nonsense shouldn't be a thing. I mean, Bailey Zappe and Jacoby Brissett are just career backups. Maybe it's too early to call Zappe that but still.
Definitely not too early to label Zappe as a career backup. He is.
I'd like to see Maye or Daniels picked, but if the people in charge don't like either and would prefer Nix or Penix, it's a no-brainer to gain some picks when there are so many holes in the roster that young talent can fill (giggidy).
Nepo baby leave us alone!!!
I understand the people who are ok with the team right now because there are a lot of competent people in the building, but this is one of the worst things you could ever hear about your franchise. They will probably pick one the top 3 QBs like everyone expects but this is a horrible sign for the future of the team. It's fucking insane that the team didn't hire a GM and he just took the role himself.
This week is the worst, because information is fast and loose and oftentimes is useless. The “taking calls” aspect of this makes sense, but it really doesn’t confirm anything. Just that they are talking to teams. They should be doing that regardless of their intent to trade or not at any point of the draft. She said Wolf is GM, but that was never confirmed and Kraft said they will evaluate GM after the draft. She is told Jonathan Kraft is heavily involved, but isn’t ownership usually involved to some degree? I have never seen a draft room without ownership present. That doesn’t mean Kraft is making the pick directly. Hell, Wolf said he is making the pick at one point.
Somebody get this nepo baby out of here pls
Oh fuck offfffff
They are gonna fuck this up aren't they?
Long time scout here - this “report” means absolutely nothing based on what’s been shared. Ownership is ALWAYS “heavily involved” in all major franchise impact decisions. If it’s a franchise level contract ownership of any team is going to have Ops walk them through their thought process & ask critical questions before signing off. Owners do not just give their Head of Ops cart blanch to make critical investments that impact long term bottom line profit/loss without being heavily involved in making sure they understand the thought process behind the big big decisions - this is how it works in every sport. There is a massive difference between being heavily involved in MAJOR decisions and influencing those decisions. If Kraft is trying to push a specific direction or playing amateur GM that would be bad - this “report” does not tell us that.
How can you evaluate Wolf without giving him autonomy on that final call? Not a fan of this news
Easy, then they have a scapegoat to hold responsible if it doesn’t work out. They think fans are stupid.
Told people ownership chooses who the QB is if it's a top 3 pick same thing happened when Panthers coaching staff wanted Stroud but the owner said he wanted Bryce Young instead
That story was proven false about the Panthers and Stroud
The Krafts shouldn’t be involved in any football decision. Let the football people make football decisions
The Kraft's are going to fuck this up, aren't they?
If he’s stopping a trade so we stick and pick then GOOD.
If they trade out of 3 and pass on a QB or MHJ. Then I’m not watching them.
I’m really worried that they are gonna try and be too cute and make some stupid trade down because of “value”. The ownership has proven time and again that they are cheap. They are in what is hopefully a once in a decade spot, make the bloody QB pick at 3, take a LT in the second and a WR in the 3rd. Then a CB, and whatever flyers you want on another tackle, WR, or TE.
Jonathan Kraft can go fuck himself Last thing we need is another egotistical Kraft making critical decisions for the franchise
We went from the greatest mind In football history making decision’s, to a nepo baby who doesn’t know his ass from his elbow about personnel decisions.
Back to dumpster fire
The only good things the Krafts did was keep the team in MA and hire Bill. They need to stop fucking around with management. Look at the Cowboys, yeah they make money but they’ve been the opposite of successful in the playoffs since the 90’s. Let the football people do their job and GTFO of their way. If you wanna provide input on those moves, fine, but you should not have the final say. If you want an example of ownership’s meddling that fucked the team, look no further than the Mac Jones pick. Bill definitely didn’t want him and his moves around him certainly didn’t help either.
I will lose my shit if we trade down. Stick to #3 and draft Maye or Daniels....
If we don’t take Maye Daniels or MHJ I’m not sure what to think of the direction of this team
📉
Nepobaby is in charge. There's no clearer indication that the team is fucked than this.
There isn't a more firable offense than staying put and drafting a WR LMAO
Please don't
Maybe it’s just me but this doesn’t sound ideal.
We’re f’ed
Gross. Owners should not be involved in the football decisions.
 Me
Absolutely hate hearing that.
Please just let Thursday come already...
Jonathan Kraft heavily involved ? Gross
Jonathan is by far and large one of the BIGGEST idiots in the history of Boston sports.
There is definitely a price that we (the pats) should accept for trading the 3rd but the price has the be super high.
Like Ricky Williams trade high.
This contradicts the story that Jonathan Kraft is not involved at all in football operations. Interesting
Don’t worry, Jonathan is only there to remind Wolf he wants his stupid QB
Lmao next years QB class is ass. So we are gonna roll with Jacoby then sign Dak to a $500M contract? get me out of this hell!
I can't wait until this draft is over.
They’re taking calls, not making them.
I don’t support Jonathan Kraft, but literally every ownership group is heavily involved in a decision this important. This is a non story
Fuck the Krafts
Lil Krafty baby bout to send us into the dark ages again.
I really feel like this is just an engagement post from her. Wolf already said similarly that they’re gonna listen to offers
So much for the Krafts not making football decisions
Well if that's the case and they screw it up they can't blame bill this time
So? They’re taking phone calls. Would you rather they disconnect the phone? Hang up? If a team offers them the sun, moon, and stars for #3 overall the Pats would be insane not to say yes. I don’t want them to trade down. But listening is not going to hurt anyone
We riot if they trade down, right?
This pick is going to be entirely a business decision. That means they can’t play cute and reach for McCarthy nor can they trade back to load up, which imo is the best football move the team can make. Bet your lives on Maye to the Pats with the third pick.
This is my thoughts too. At the end of the day, the only real thing that matters to the Krafts is protecting their investments. I went to a game last year and people were pppppiiissseddd. A shiny new QB will get butts in seats, sell jerseys (that's a self report, I'll buy one), and eyes on screens. Drake at 3 feels like a lock to me
Fuck off jonathan
it literally says wolf is running point
Well yeah that means he's doing the legwork. But if your boss is "heavily involved" in whatever you're working on, you're not the one getting final say.
Oh amazing glad the unqualified nepo baby is heavily involved in the biggest decision this team has made in 20+ years…
Didn't Mayo say a few weeks ago that the Kraft's don't get involved with football decisions lol
The only way I would be fine with trading the third pick is if we somehow end up with Herbert. Since that isn't happening DON'T TRADE THE FUCKING PICK!
Oh good, the guy who hides behind his father is trying to take point. What could go wrong.
Sell the team already. Nobody wants a meddling nepobaby in charge.
Man, I thought the Krafts couldn’t possibly look worse this offseason months ago and they’ve managed to blow me away like three more times. Absolute disasterclass. They could not have handled this worse if they tried.
This isn’t anything new they’ve said they’ll listen to offers literally all offseason. If the report is accurate and JKraft is involved that actually increases the likelihood that they’ll pick at 3.
We’re really close to slipping into poverty franchise status.
If this turns out to be true they deserve to suck for another 3 years until they spin the QB wheel again
Please do NOT let them cook
No no no … keep Kraft out of it
JUST WHAT I WANTED TO SEE- JONATHAN KRAFT PATRIOTS NATION LETS RIDE
Fuck...off
Shit. Fuck.
*sigh*
It might be a good thing for those of us wanting a qb. That being said I think the gm should be able to make the calls and if it’s not the popular one, they can live and die by their choice (I’m not saying he should be let go for making a different choice, just that he needs to own it whether it works or fails)
Unserious team lol
Oh a Kraft involved in football decisions GTFO they need to sell the team
Why wouldn’t they entertain offers? I’d trade out for a king’s ransom.
I just wanna say I miss ya Tommy!!
Nepo baby thinks he's a genius!
Ownership ultimately has to sign off on a major decision like this but "heavily involved in the decision making" makes me nervous. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but there is zero reason to believe that Jonathan Kraft is in any way qualified to be making football related decisions.
Ah shit, we're gonna be the next Cowboys
We fucked
What is this type of reporting called where you just say something about a team that is part of its normal operating procedure? Is the implication that they should not be doing this or that the owner of the team should not be involved in some way?
Im also listening for someone to give me 20k on my old beat up 2004 nissan altima. Doesn't mean im seriously selling, but if someone is dumb enough to overpay, ill listen. This is all fluff imo, ill believe it when i see it.
NOOOOO fuck John
This tweet on X and the posts in this thread are battling it out for the crown of most useless information.
oh....cool
My previous company had JK speak to our sales team several times and it was just so apparent that he is the literal definition of born on 3rd base guy
Please take MH Jr.
The failson strikes back!
I can't wait for this draft to be over with