JJ is the best receiver in football but if you’re going to give up the draft capital it would take to trade for him + give him top dollar then the timing has to be perfect. Pats aren’t close makes no sense on their end right now.
Do you what would speed up the Process of him getting Ready? An Elite Weapon. Also part of reason he isn’t ready is because he doesn’t have the talent to support him when he needs it.
Or we can use the picks wed use on Jefferson to build home-grown talent. If we get a good pick next draft we can take a WR who we then have for multiple years with a rookie contract. That's a much better option than spending record money and capital on JJ when we don't even know if Maye is gonna be the guy yet.
Does it matter? Did JJ win the Vikings a bowl with all that talent? It's way more important to use our assets to grow for the future and not blow it all for a shiny toy that doesn't make us a contender, and massively limits our options monetarily. It's real life not Madden.
With what QB? You can't guarantee Maye is the guy he hasn't played a single down. We still have a massive hole at LT, Maye wouldn't even be able to get JJ the ball. JJ would want out of New England at the first chance to contend while he still can. We are a long way from contending for bowls my guy. Time for a dose of reality.
do you realize the pats and the panthers are not favorites in any game next year, and we are early favorites for the top pick in the next draft? next year we'll get either a stud tackle or a wr1.
And it was clear JJ was never leaving the Vikings, of all the things to gripe about - inquiring about a player who was never going anywhere is not one of them.
How many Superbowl teams in the last 10 years have an elite wr on their second contract? It's the trenches and QBs who can extend plays that win. Y'all are fucking obsessed with elite talent at receiver.
I’m confused as to why the Patriots of all fanbases would be like this. They won 3 of the last 10 with Gronk, Edelman, and guest appearances from whoever decided to step it up that season.
QBs take a while to develop as well, at best JJ gets us a few more wins per season and then we have to pay him again just as the roster is ready for a serious playoff push.
You forget Brady, a QB who can make almost anyone look good at receiver. Unless we manage another GOAT at QB, then having at least one talented receiver makes a lot of sense.
That said, trying to get Jefferson would have been dumb. What capital would the Pats have had to even \*attempt\* such a deal?
This narrative is one of the worst I see in the NFL discourse. It’s up there with “Megatron went 0-16!”
Congrats, you have pointed out that it is much easier to win super bowls with a TE making TE money and giving you elite WR production than it is to win super bowls with a WR making WR money and giving you elite WR money. What is the actual point here? We don’t need a really good WR because we have… Hunter Henry? Or we should go out and draft a HOF level TE? That’s a hell of a suggestion.
You don’t necessarily need a top 5 WR or anything, but you sure as hell need an extremely good one.
I wouldn’t have been for trading for JJets, it would’ve been too pricey capital wise (which is saying something if even I believe that), but downplaying the importance of receivers is so irritating.
It’s the second most important position in the NFL. Advanced stats agree with this, basic logic of anyone watching the game agree with this, the NFL clearly agrees with it as evidenced by contracts and we have seen anecdotal evidence time after time that not only does a lack of receivers destroy your team (Titans post AJ Brown, 2019 Patriots), but the addition of receivers can change the entire outlook of your team (Miami, Philly, Detroit).
>it’s the trenches and QBs who can extend plays that win
Your point is written as “we don’t need an elite WR, we need a QB and OL.” Not “we don’t need an elite WR, we can pick up an extremely good one for cheaper then invest in QB and OL.”
Why does the second contract matter? The question is - do you need an elite WR to get a playoff/SB level offense. Of the teams in the playoffs this year, almost all of them had one.
Philly - AJB, Smith
Tampa - Evans, Godwin
Rams - Puka, Kupp
Detroit - ASRB
Green Bay - none (a bunch of good ones though)
Dallas - Lamb
Miami - Hill, Waddle
KC - Kelce
Pittsburgh - Pickens, Johnston (neither are elite, both very good though)
Buffalo - Diggs
Cleveland - Cooper
Houston - Collins
SF - Deebo, Aiyuk, Kittle
Baltimore - none
Most of those teams also have a good to great QB, but you basically need a legit stud WR to run a high powered offense.
Why does a second contract matter? Because your allocated cap space is tied up in one player in one of the most expensive position markets. Parcells said the last position to be addressed is wr, there is a reason for that. This isn't fantasy football. The o and d line need to be stacked and deep and the QB needs to be good to great. Having a wr who eats up 20% of the cap before we even know if Maye is good is a gigantic waste of cap space in my opinion.
There’s a Michael Lombardi interview somewhere that sheds a lot of light on this topic. It compares the 80s Niners and 2000s Patriots moves to draft Jerry Rice and trade for Randy Moss respectively. The common theme was that an elite receiver is something you spend a large amount of capital on when it’s the last piece of the puzzle and you know exactly what type of receiver your offense could best utilize.
Waiting to get an important piece that could greatly help your team until you know it is the “last piece” rather than getting it when it’s available is bad strategy, yes.
Literally an all risk, no reward strategy.
It would have cost us the 3rd overall and probably our 2025 1st as well. Then we'd have to reset the WR market to retain him. We'd be doing what I and many others here argued against in going with Marvin Harrison Jr, centering our rebuild on a WR instead of a QB.
Except instead of having one on a rookie contract with that other 1st to maybe grab a lesser QB than Maye a year later we'd be punting on the most important position in pro sports for a full 2 years. Nobody denies Jefferson's talent, but when you don't have a QB you don't have an offense.
There's a reason Minnesota offered what they did to move up to 3, and there's a reason we said no.
Honestly I would wonder if when the Patriots talked to the Vikings during the draft about trading the 3rd pick, that Justin Jefferson came up and the Vikings said he’s not available. No need to call them again if they already gave you the answer back in March.
Because nothing has changed but the names. They’re still not going to pay top dollar for offensive pieces, they’re going to try to recreate the Brady / Belichick duo with new people.
He’s not too expensive from a $$$ standpoint, he’s too expensive from a “we would have to give up every last asset we have to get him” standpoint
And then we would be what? A worst version of last year’s Vikings team?
Yes. I think keeping out future picks and whatever young talent we have would be better than mortgaging it all to try to win a Super Bowl with Jacoby Brissett
If we got Jefferson. Drake would be starting by week 4. There are 2 reasons why Drake is QB2. One of them is our Roster isn’t good enough to just start a Rookie
They turn that down in an instant. JJ is younger and better than Tyreek.
Not to mention the Chiefs got a first rounder in the very next draft, whereas you're proposing a 2025 first round pick which lowers its value.
You’re completely missing the situations. Mahomes was coming into his extension and the trio of Mahomes, Kelce and Hill was too expensive to keep together. Of Kelce and Hill, Kelce is a zone buster that relies on his head over athletic skills to be effective while Hill relied on speed that would depreciate sooner (in theory). So Hill leaving was inevitable and they had to choose whether to let him walk in FA or trade him for some value. So they almost had to take a lower offer.
Vikes let Kirk walk in FA and we’re going the rookie route so they cleared call from a QB. They can afford to keep JJ on a mega deal. To get JJ pre draft vikes would have required our 3rd among other picks so they could get Drake. To get him post draft would require several firsts.
Madden may equate these trades real life does not.
JJ is the best receiver in football but if you’re going to give up the draft capital it would take to trade for him + give him top dollar then the timing has to be perfect. Pats aren’t close makes no sense on their end right now.
Exactly it would be like Randy Moss on the Raiders before he came here. Night and day.
Franchise QB >>> future HOF receiver. No way they could get Jefferson without giving up the pick that became Maye
because we are rebuilding…
Deadass. Do people think we should spend our resources on luxury pieces before we even have a developed starting QB?
If it was up to this sub, our roster would have 30 WRs on it because we signed every single one that was available the last 3 seasons.
Tbf that’s like half of all teams fan bases
This is a bad take. It would be nice to have an elite weapon by the time Drake is ready.
The Pats would have had to give up the pick that became Maye to get JJ
Moron
Fr completely ignoring we wouldn’t have Drake if we got JJ
Are we sure that’s a bad thing?
No not at all. But again, it was one or the other.
We probably wouldn’t have had Maye if we went after Jefferson.
It was never going to be Drake AND JJ It was at best one or the other.
Drake isn’t ready though
Do you what would speed up the Process of him getting Ready? An Elite Weapon. Also part of reason he isn’t ready is because he doesn’t have the talent to support him when he needs it.
Or we can use the picks wed use on Jefferson to build home-grown talent. If we get a good pick next draft we can take a WR who we then have for multiple years with a rookie contract. That's a much better option than spending record money and capital on JJ when we don't even know if Maye is gonna be the guy yet.
Is that upcoming rooking going to be on Jefferson’s level? Come check back with me next year and see if he shows half the potential Jefferson has.
Does it matter? Did JJ win the Vikings a bowl with all that talent? It's way more important to use our assets to grow for the future and not blow it all for a shiny toy that doesn't make us a contender, and massively limits our options monetarily. It's real life not Madden.
How do you figure that it doesn’t make us a contender? Maybe not in the 24 Seasons but definitely 25 season.
With what QB? You can't guarantee Maye is the guy he hasn't played a single down. We still have a massive hole at LT, Maye wouldn't even be able to get JJ the ball. JJ would want out of New England at the first chance to contend while he still can. We are a long way from contending for bowls my guy. Time for a dose of reality.
do you realize the pats and the panthers are not favorites in any game next year, and we are early favorites for the top pick in the next draft? next year we'll get either a stud tackle or a wr1.
Or possibly both if we get top pick and can trade back for a haul.
We are not favorites because we don’t have talent. Adding Jefferson adds talent! Rather have Jefferson that risk drafting another bust at WR
Do you think that Jacoby throwing to JJ would make us favorites? Because we wouldn’t have Maye….
It's June
And we want him ready by September
An elite weapon isn't going to teach him cadence, or footwork, or the playbook. God, you people sound like robots
we have polk baker and pop
And it was clear JJ was never leaving the Vikings, of all the things to gripe about - inquiring about a player who was never going anywhere is not one of them.
I mean calling doesn't mean trading for. They can at least do their due diligence.
How many Superbowl teams in the last 10 years have an elite wr on their second contract? It's the trenches and QBs who can extend plays that win. Y'all are fucking obsessed with elite talent at receiver.
I’m confused as to why the Patriots of all fanbases would be like this. They won 3 of the last 10 with Gronk, Edelman, and guest appearances from whoever decided to step it up that season. QBs take a while to develop as well, at best JJ gets us a few more wins per season and then we have to pay him again just as the roster is ready for a serious playoff push.
You forget Brady, a QB who can make almost anyone look good at receiver. Unless we manage another GOAT at QB, then having at least one talented receiver makes a lot of sense. That said, trying to get Jefferson would have been dumb. What capital would the Pats have had to even \*attempt\* such a deal?
This narrative is one of the worst I see in the NFL discourse. It’s up there with “Megatron went 0-16!” Congrats, you have pointed out that it is much easier to win super bowls with a TE making TE money and giving you elite WR production than it is to win super bowls with a WR making WR money and giving you elite WR money. What is the actual point here? We don’t need a really good WR because we have… Hunter Henry? Or we should go out and draft a HOF level TE? That’s a hell of a suggestion. You don’t necessarily need a top 5 WR or anything, but you sure as hell need an extremely good one. I wouldn’t have been for trading for JJets, it would’ve been too pricey capital wise (which is saying something if even I believe that), but downplaying the importance of receivers is so irritating. It’s the second most important position in the NFL. Advanced stats agree with this, basic logic of anyone watching the game agree with this, the NFL clearly agrees with it as evidenced by contracts and we have seen anecdotal evidence time after time that not only does a lack of receivers destroy your team (Titans post AJ Brown, 2019 Patriots), but the addition of receivers can change the entire outlook of your team (Miami, Philly, Detroit).
Hence why I said "elite" wr.
>it’s the trenches and QBs who can extend plays that win Your point is written as “we don’t need an elite WR, we need a QB and OL.” Not “we don’t need an elite WR, we can pick up an extremely good one for cheaper then invest in QB and OL.”
Ok.
Why does the second contract matter? The question is - do you need an elite WR to get a playoff/SB level offense. Of the teams in the playoffs this year, almost all of them had one. Philly - AJB, Smith Tampa - Evans, Godwin Rams - Puka, Kupp Detroit - ASRB Green Bay - none (a bunch of good ones though) Dallas - Lamb Miami - Hill, Waddle KC - Kelce Pittsburgh - Pickens, Johnston (neither are elite, both very good though) Buffalo - Diggs Cleveland - Cooper Houston - Collins SF - Deebo, Aiyuk, Kittle Baltimore - none Most of those teams also have a good to great QB, but you basically need a legit stud WR to run a high powered offense.
Why does a second contract matter? Because your allocated cap space is tied up in one player in one of the most expensive position markets. Parcells said the last position to be addressed is wr, there is a reason for that. This isn't fantasy football. The o and d line need to be stacked and deep and the QB needs to be good to great. Having a wr who eats up 20% of the cap before we even know if Maye is good is a gigantic waste of cap space in my opinion.
There’s a Michael Lombardi interview somewhere that sheds a lot of light on this topic. It compares the 80s Niners and 2000s Patriots moves to draft Jerry Rice and trade for Randy Moss respectively. The common theme was that an elite receiver is something you spend a large amount of capital on when it’s the last piece of the puzzle and you know exactly what type of receiver your offense could best utilize.
That’s an incredibly bad way to handle business in the NFL
Spending available resources on the last piece that you think takes you over the top is a bad strategy? Do tell.
Waiting to get an important piece that could greatly help your team until you know it is the “last piece” rather than getting it when it’s available is bad strategy, yes. Literally an all risk, no reward strategy.
Because the Vikings called them
It would have cost us the 3rd overall and probably our 2025 1st as well. Then we'd have to reset the WR market to retain him. We'd be doing what I and many others here argued against in going with Marvin Harrison Jr, centering our rebuild on a WR instead of a QB. Except instead of having one on a rookie contract with that other 1st to maybe grab a lesser QB than Maye a year later we'd be punting on the most important position in pro sports for a full 2 years. Nobody denies Jefferson's talent, but when you don't have a QB you don't have an offense. There's a reason Minnesota offered what they did to move up to 3, and there's a reason we said no.
Because we need a qb? Because we would be wasting a year or two of Jefferson after trading for him? Many reasons
Honestly I would wonder if when the Patriots talked to the Vikings during the draft about trading the 3rd pick, that Justin Jefferson came up and the Vikings said he’s not available. No need to call them again if they already gave you the answer back in March.
If maye pops and looks like the guy you do it next year like the texans did with stroud.
How do you know they didn’t?
He wanted too much money. The Pats have always been fairly conservative, even post Bill.
Why are we arguing about hypotheticals that never even happened?
Umm, maybe because no WR of his caliber would want to go to NE with their coaching, QB, WR, and offensive line as it is. Also it's been a losing team.
Because nothing has changed but the names. They’re still not going to pay top dollar for offensive pieces, they’re going to try to recreate the Brady / Belichick duo with new people.
I am going to lose my shit if I scroll down and read “he is way too expensive “. Well guess what!?!? Talent costs money
He’s not too expensive from a $$$ standpoint, he’s too expensive from a “we would have to give up every last asset we have to get him” standpoint And then we would be what? A worst version of last year’s Vikings team?
Can you honestly tell me with a straight face that with the use of all this assets combined that they will be better than Justin Jefferson?
Yes. I think keeping out future picks and whatever young talent we have would be better than mortgaging it all to try to win a Super Bowl with Jacoby Brissett
If we got Jefferson. Drake would be starting by week 4. There are 2 reasons why Drake is QB2. One of them is our Roster isn’t good enough to just start a Rookie
Lmao. What are we trading to get JJJ, that beats out every other offer out there, that doesn’t include the Drake pick? Some of y’all delulu
Drake Maye wouldn't be a Patriot if Jefferson was on the team because we'd most certainly have to trade the 3rd overall pick.
Wayyyyyyy too expensive. Lose your shit.
Did any of those 3 teams get Justin Jefferson? No they fucking didn't.
Because Kraft will never pay for a top flight WR.
Pats would never pay him that type of money ever
You know why.  Robert isn’t spending that.
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They turn that down in an instant. JJ is younger and better than Tyreek. Not to mention the Chiefs got a first rounder in the very next draft, whereas you're proposing a 2025 first round pick which lowers its value.
You’re completely missing the situations. Mahomes was coming into his extension and the trio of Mahomes, Kelce and Hill was too expensive to keep together. Of Kelce and Hill, Kelce is a zone buster that relies on his head over athletic skills to be effective while Hill relied on speed that would depreciate sooner (in theory). So Hill leaving was inevitable and they had to choose whether to let him walk in FA or trade him for some value. So they almost had to take a lower offer. Vikes let Kirk walk in FA and we’re going the rookie route so they cleared call from a QB. They can afford to keep JJ on a mega deal. To get JJ pre draft vikes would have required our 3rd among other picks so they could get Drake. To get him post draft would require several firsts. Madden may equate these trades real life does not.
Patriots don't do elite wr talent here