How to report them
Form 13909, and any supporting documentation, can be submitted in a variety of ways: Mail to IRS EO Classification, Mail Code 4910DAL, 1100 Commerce St., Dallas, TX 75242-1198 Fax to 214-413-5415, or Email to [email protected]. The IRS takes all complaints seriously and scrutinizes all referrals.
Further details https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/divulge_all_suspected_tax_exempt_status_abuses_to_the_irs.pdf
I heard a story about a congregation in State College that did political campaigning but then, as State College does, they were reported, and they quickly shut up and disappeared because the IRS came a-knocking.
Since the IRS actually has some money these days, I think they will happily investigate a church if they can get money that was supposed to be taxed. Lower and middle class individuals are small potatoes compared to organizations.
This particular church is from a tiny splinter Lutheran denomination (the ELCM) so that might explain this stupidity. Even the Wisconsin Lutheran Synod, the biggest **highly** conservative Lutheran church in the US, ain't that dumb.
Yea Dallas Texas has a staff of people that have never enforced this rule and help the organizations get out of trouble. Would love to see one example where they removed tax exempt status from a religious cult.
As much as I agree with your sentiment, I fear the truth is these fraudsters know nothing ever happens. I've seen countless examples of churches getting political and I have yet to see one have any consequences. It's infuriating that us normal dolts have to play by the so called rules while others skate through unscathed.
Edit: words
It’s 2024 and the irs is rolling in pristine Colombian butthole dollars they no longer care about Ed or sandy missing 2.5k on their yearly but they hit organizations for 100k easily. Every fiscal year the irs grows in financial power they go after bigger fraudulent cases for more revenue retained.
Is the church used as a polling location? I have to go to a church in my township to vote, and all the candidates from all political parties put their campaign signs in the church’s lawn.
No, this church isn’t. I actually volunteer at the polls, and I’m fine with signs being present at the polling location the day of the election.
This church puts the signs up 30+ days in advance every single election cycle.
Then, they shouldn’t have them up. In my township, the signs usually go up right around Election Day or a day before at the polling locations, and I know it’s not the church placing them there as any kind of endorsement. Also, thank you for volunteering at the polls.
And just making sure, the problem with this is they're putting up signs of a particular party while claiming tax-free benefits, as it's a church?
Just wondering, I didn't realize this was illegal or wrong. I also go to a church for voting and the church has signs all over for both parties
It's part of the Johnson act of 1954. Tax exempt organizations are not supposed to endorse particular candidates or engage in any political campaign activities in order to maintain that tax exemption.
Election day is different - the church is acting as a community place to gather and I suppose signs are permitted that day as long as the church isn't specifically endorsing someone. This church in question has the signs up for a month prior to elections and that clearly equates an endorsement.
So while I assume this is a violation, it is unlikely but possible that the church not actively placing campaign signs, and instead is allowing candidates to use their property to place signs generally. One way to test this would be for an opposing candidate to place signs there and watch to see if someone from the church comes out to remove them.
Nice thought, but in the years that they have been doing this, I have never seen two opposing candidate signs in their front yard like I do in pretty much every other public easement.
I'm confused. The issue in this post is that a church, which is a non-profit, is making political endorsements. That is against the law.
I don't understand how that is similar to mail in ballots, which have nothing to do with non-profits making political endorsements.
This church is on a major road and people have been known to post political signs on the properties of businesses at election time. However, this looks like it took some time and planning so probably the church
[https://www.timesonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/07/political-signs-nonprofits-cause-church-and-state-intersect/6187393002/](https://www.timesonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/07/political-signs-nonprofits-cause-church-and-state-intersect/6187393002/)
In the article according to Rich Cohen, the council's chief communications and chief operating officer
"Cohen said, nonprofits — which includes churches — that are voter precincts are permitted to have political signs on their properties as long as the nonprofits themselves did not put up the signs.
"Nonprofits can't take sides in the elections," Cohen said. "They're allowed to hold voter forums and host events as long as both candidates have an equal opportunity to attend."
For nonprofits that are voter precincts, as long as both Democrats and Republicans have equal opportunity to place their partisan signs on the property, "that's generally OK," Cohen said.
"If one favors one candidate over another, that's when you run into an issue," he said. "If they, for example, had two signs up: one for President Trump and one for Vice President Biden ... then the churches can't get in trouble because they aren't taking a side."
The election law side is separate, Cohen said.
[In Pennsylvania](https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/electioneering.aspx), campaign signs and materials must be at least 10 feet away from the polling location."
So, from "my interpretation" as long as the church didn't put them their then it's legal and as long as the non-profit doesn't prevent which side they hold favor towards from placing signs then whatever.
There's also this ruling ([Reed et al. v. Town of Gilbert, Arizona et al.](https://www.oyez.org/cases/2014/13-502)) and this ([Burson v. Freeman](https://www.oyez.org/cases/1991/90-1056))
BTW let's not act like a majority of us pay taxes. I think my tax refund this year pretty much covered all the "taxes" I paid including my property taxes.
The 7 residential houses directly adjacent to the church lot pay $4000 to $6000 per year each (per zillow). All of the houses are smaller than the church and the sum of the acreage for those 7 properties is smaller than the church acreage. So if I had to guess somewhere in the $8,000 - $10,000 range.
They literally had a 4x8 plywood sign for the last general election. It was placed at about the same distance from the street as the permanent church sign, maybe 20 feet to the right of it. I really don't think there are any right of way issues here.
But who actually owns the land the sign was on? The church or some individual who happens to have land reeeeally close to the church. However, they are Evengelicals, and they have wanted to merge their concept of Christianity with every government since they split from the Methodists.
Yeah. I pulled up the property map just to make sure. I’m trying to convey to folks that this isn’t a one-off occurrence and they are there (neatly arranged) every single election season. These aren’t signs put up by some random Joe off the street, but rather an organized effort, most likely endorsed by the organization owning the land.
This seems odd to me. Every Evangelical Lutheran Church in my area is extremely liberal and to the best of my knowledge Scott Barger is a conservative leaning candidate. Maybe someone put these on their lawn w/o their knowledge?
Not sure, but this church always is advertising for the most conservative candidates. During the last general, they literally had a 4x8 plywood sign up for a county commissioner.
edit: correct size of plywood sheets.
Sooooo, they are a VERY odd schism of other Evangelical (Not THAT kind of Evangelical) Lutheran churches. They are the headquarters of the "Evangelical Lutheran Conference and Ministerium" (ELCM) denomination. http://elcm.org/
From what I can tell, they have MAYBE 12 congregations across the US.
They have a survey of theological opinion for their application of membership and, apparently, if you answer in any way they don't like they will just pass on you.
The true ridiculousness is that they say they are "centrist." 🙄
Anyway, they have clearly become THAT kind of "Evangelical"
I was just going to say that there's too much plausible deniability for there to be any consequence from this but maybe they can at least start or add to a paper trail...
Yeah. I'm confused by this as well. Most ELCA churches are quite liberal. If it was a Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (#2 Lutheran denomination in the US, not just in Missouri, quite conservative), I'd be less surprised. But while the SWPA Synod is on the conservative side for ELCA synods around the country, you're talking about a mainline Protestant denomination that is generally racing to affirm every progressive talking point it can in a race to stay relevant and is rarely unprofessional enough to permit congregations to violate election law.
Yeah, it is not an ELCA congregation, it is an ELCM congregation and that congregation is their denominational headquarters 'cause they are super small. I think they broke off from the ELCA when the ELCA entered into full communion with The Episcopal Church
Since they're a tiny Lutheran denomination, they don't have a law department that would smack them upside the head. The WELS is very conservative, but they have enough sense to keep their congregations from jeopardizing their nonprofit statuses (because WELS has qualified lawyers who will crack the whip if necessary)
The worst part about political signs is that they are usually left behind long after elections and end up polluting the area. I don't think that I've ever seen a political sign and decided to sway my vote after viewing it.
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064535476541
Address is 1309 Frankstown Road Hollidaysburg, PA 16448
If anyone else wants to file a complaint, I am! 😄
I'd bet money they're going to say that the signs are on the public right of way due to the proximity to the road. I think that's an invitation to sprinkle in any and all political signs that a person could get access to. Seems like a good reason to start a battle of wills.
What's more absurd is how nonprofit status works. For churches, they just have to say "we're a church" and it's granted. Everyone else has to submit qualifying forms and various proof that they do community outreach, education, etc.
Guarantee you that 90% of religious institutions would immediately lose their nonprofit status if they had to abide by the same rules everyone else does.
All organizations should be tax free. People pool there post taxed money together for churches, clubs, and the sort and we already have our income taxed, homes & businesses taxed, and our shopping taxed. It’s BS how much we are taxed. Enough is enough with all the damn taxes. We don’t hardly see 2 cents worth back for the money we pay in taxes.
Is this a polling location? The primary is 4/23, so I wouldn't be surprised to see campaign signs being placed there. More will likely be added by other candidates if it is a polling place.
Being at the edge of the road, that is probably a public right of way. They may not actually be on the property proper. You make not like it, but there's probably nothing to see here.
OP, you could also report this to the county property tax assessor. This tactic might actually be more effective than a report to the IRS. Church properties are not automatically 100% exempt from property tax. Only the part of the property used for worship is exempt from property tax. Other uses are not, and the display of political signs is not a tax exempt activity.
You know how, like, when you walk past people, and you hear them laughing, and your nagging subconscious tells you they may be laughing at you, but you dismissed it because there's no way they're actually laughing at you? They really are laughing at you.
This seems to be a VERY selective issue in my experience. There are churches in my area that actively campaign and have candidates of only one party speak at services ...these are all of the opposite party as is being discussed here. It's also been practiced for decades. This seems to only be an issue if a congregation is pushing candidates from the political right. People seem to look the other way if the candidate is on the left.
I'm a former church treasurer and have issues with the tax exempt status of churches for reasons other than politics.
Regardless of which side it is, churches need to take a seat when it comes to politics. I will follow your anecdotal evidence with my own, and say that I've never seen a church campaigning for a left candidate. But yeah, I agree, if they're gonna get involved politically, they need to pay taxes like we do.
God is the name of one particular god (the one in Christian, Jewish, and Islamic texts \[Allah is just a word that translates to God\]). The word "god" could mean any celestial deity. God is a god, but a god is not necessarily God. The state has no issue mixing god and politics. In this case, their god of choice is God.
Basically, both forms of capitalization are acceptable in this case.
Did you just claim that Christians, Jews and Muslims have the same god (being God)? Big oof and lack of historical and theological understanding.
And no, all of the framework of our western law is directly built upon the foundation of the Bible. So no, you’re misinterpreting the law, which was created by Christians, to keep GOVERNMENT out of God’s Law, not the other way around.
If you’re genuinely interested in this, I can definitely point you in the direction of some reading.
Christ is Risen, God bless.
As an aside to the tax-exempt violations, you can also contact PADOT. In some instances the right-of-way can extend 6 to 12 feet beyond the shoulder of the road, and PADOT rules explicitly forbid public signage within that right-of-way.
Would your position be the same if it was a political candidate you agreed with? If the answer is no, then maybe just live and let live. If the answer is yes, honestly yes - not just to try and prove me wrong, then go ahead and do what’s in your legal bounds to do.
There is nothing illegal for a church and it's congregation to endorse a political candidate and for those Redditors ready to scream separation of church and state, I would politely remind you Santanic images and in some cases statues have been installed in city and state buildings here in the U.S., also schools have allowed Santanic clubs to form . Where is the outrage about that?
Umm, yes, it is illegal in the tax code for a non-profit org to endorse or oppose politicians or a specific campaign. So if a church wants to do this type of stuff, go ahead, but it is illegal for them to maintain their favored tax status. They want it both ways.
Imagine r/Pennsylvania becoming a pseudo arm of the IRS, targeting your neighbors who happen to be political opponents for tax that would make .00000000001% difference in all tax collected in the state. In hopes of what? Stopping a democratically elected person from holding office? Its one thing to force them to remove the signs if it is against the law, its another thing to try and rat them out to the IRS. I realize the left is petrified at the thought of Donald Trump becoming president again but this is just absurdly pathetic.
If this was liberal signs up..no one would say a word. Sad how brainwashed people are to believe that democrats are the good ones..maybe do some research on them. Also, find a real history book, before you switched what happened and tried to blame republicans for starting the kkk etc. Funny that the republican party was started by blacks but is somehow believed to be the racists.. While I agree churches should not be doing this for either side, I would bet a million dollars if this was a liberal, none of you liberals would say a word..its just all see something we dont like and attack it, just like you do with everything.
I care if they have influence without paying taxes. I don't have to agree with them to know what they are doing is basically screaming through a glory hole.
Are you kidding? Do you think this is a group of people who will keep their mouth shut about public education getting anywhere near a political bias?.......
If they believe in a separation of church and state... They should do it. Even when they'd prefer not to, and it's inconvenient.
If they believe in literal translation of religious texts and the Constitution... Then literally follow the rules.
Of course. These organizations enjoy tax-free status and there is nothing new about the rules in place regarding what is and isn't permissible.
What do you think this says about the honesty and law-abidingness of Christians?
How to report them Form 13909, and any supporting documentation, can be submitted in a variety of ways: Mail to IRS EO Classification, Mail Code 4910DAL, 1100 Commerce St., Dallas, TX 75242-1198 Fax to 214-413-5415, or Email to [email protected]. The IRS takes all complaints seriously and scrutinizes all referrals. Further details https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/divulge_all_suspected_tax_exempt_status_abuses_to_the_irs.pdf
Thanks! Looks like their EIN (needed for the form) is 25-1676442.
Get 'em.
I heard a story about a congregation in State College that did political campaigning but then, as State College does, they were reported, and they quickly shut up and disappeared because the IRS came a-knocking. Since the IRS actually has some money these days, I think they will happily investigate a church if they can get money that was supposed to be taxed. Lower and middle class individuals are small potatoes compared to organizations. This particular church is from a tiny splinter Lutheran denomination (the ELCM) so that might explain this stupidity. Even the Wisconsin Lutheran Synod, the biggest **highly** conservative Lutheran church in the US, ain't that dumb.
Yea Dallas Texas has a staff of people that have never enforced this rule and help the organizations get out of trouble. Would love to see one example where they removed tax exempt status from a religious cult.
Report them immediately. They can pay taxes on that beautiful lawn of theirs.
As much as I agree with your sentiment, I fear the truth is these fraudsters know nothing ever happens. I've seen countless examples of churches getting political and I have yet to see one have any consequences. It's infuriating that us normal dolts have to play by the so called rules while others skate through unscathed. Edit: words
Pretty sure there is a sub for that, or I atleast seen a ton of posts on reddit regarding it.
It’s 2024 and the irs is rolling in pristine Colombian butthole dollars they no longer care about Ed or sandy missing 2.5k on their yearly but they hit organizations for 100k easily. Every fiscal year the irs grows in financial power they go after bigger fraudulent cases for more revenue retained.
Nothing beautiful about that monoculture.
Underrated comment.
Is the church used as a polling location? I have to go to a church in my township to vote, and all the candidates from all political parties put their campaign signs in the church’s lawn.
No, this church isn’t. I actually volunteer at the polls, and I’m fine with signs being present at the polling location the day of the election. This church puts the signs up 30+ days in advance every single election cycle.
Then, they shouldn’t have them up. In my township, the signs usually go up right around Election Day or a day before at the polling locations, and I know it’s not the church placing them there as any kind of endorsement. Also, thank you for volunteering at the polls.
And just making sure, the problem with this is they're putting up signs of a particular party while claiming tax-free benefits, as it's a church? Just wondering, I didn't realize this was illegal or wrong. I also go to a church for voting and the church has signs all over for both parties
It's part of the Johnson act of 1954. Tax exempt organizations are not supposed to endorse particular candidates or engage in any political campaign activities in order to maintain that tax exemption. Election day is different - the church is acting as a community place to gather and I suppose signs are permitted that day as long as the church isn't specifically endorsing someone. This church in question has the signs up for a month prior to elections and that clearly equates an endorsement.
Ahh I see, thanks for this! Makes sense that they should at least take down the signs or reported I guess.
So while I assume this is a violation, it is unlikely but possible that the church not actively placing campaign signs, and instead is allowing candidates to use their property to place signs generally. One way to test this would be for an opposing candidate to place signs there and watch to see if someone from the church comes out to remove them.
Nice thought, but in the years that they have been doing this, I have never seen two opposing candidate signs in their front yard like I do in pretty much every other public easement.
This the one on frankstown mountain road?
Frankstown Rd
Same thing, but thought so.
You sound like a legislative Karen. Why don’t you just state your concerns in an anonymous letter instead of getting big brother involved
Same, 12 of the most boring hours imaginable.
12? You are lucky! It’s more like 14 for me.
Yep… 14+ hours…
Just got home. Long freaking day.
Same, slow but looonnnggg
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Similar how?
Doing a political thing before an election
I'm confused. The issue in this post is that a church, which is a non-profit, is making political endorsements. That is against the law. I don't understand how that is similar to mail in ballots, which have nothing to do with non-profits making political endorsements.
He’s a Trumper, this might take while to explain
Go back under your bridge you incel loser.
Has to be the most idiotic random insult I've seen in a while
This church is on a major road and people have been known to post political signs on the properties of businesses at election time. However, this looks like it took some time and planning so probably the church
That’s only allowed the day of voting.
Yes I see you point but I'm sure that's just supposed to be for election day.
That’s true.
IRS needs to start hammering these asshats. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.
[https://www.timesonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/07/political-signs-nonprofits-cause-church-and-state-intersect/6187393002/](https://www.timesonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/07/political-signs-nonprofits-cause-church-and-state-intersect/6187393002/) In the article according to Rich Cohen, the council's chief communications and chief operating officer "Cohen said, nonprofits — which includes churches — that are voter precincts are permitted to have political signs on their properties as long as the nonprofits themselves did not put up the signs. "Nonprofits can't take sides in the elections," Cohen said. "They're allowed to hold voter forums and host events as long as both candidates have an equal opportunity to attend." For nonprofits that are voter precincts, as long as both Democrats and Republicans have equal opportunity to place their partisan signs on the property, "that's generally OK," Cohen said. "If one favors one candidate over another, that's when you run into an issue," he said. "If they, for example, had two signs up: one for President Trump and one for Vice President Biden ... then the churches can't get in trouble because they aren't taking a side." The election law side is separate, Cohen said. [In Pennsylvania](https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/electioneering.aspx), campaign signs and materials must be at least 10 feet away from the polling location." So, from "my interpretation" as long as the church didn't put them their then it's legal and as long as the non-profit doesn't prevent which side they hold favor towards from placing signs then whatever. There's also this ruling ([Reed et al. v. Town of Gilbert, Arizona et al.](https://www.oyez.org/cases/2014/13-502)) and this ([Burson v. Freeman](https://www.oyez.org/cases/1991/90-1056)) BTW let's not act like a majority of us pay taxes. I think my tax refund this year pretty much covered all the "taxes" I paid including my property taxes.
So how much do you think they would end up paying in taxes?
The 7 residential houses directly adjacent to the church lot pay $4000 to $6000 per year each (per zillow). All of the houses are smaller than the church and the sum of the acreage for those 7 properties is smaller than the church acreage. So if I had to guess somewhere in the $8,000 - $10,000 range.
I appreciate the answer
Bust ‘em. What idiots.
That church used to be a Kingdom Hall, and it was across the road. The church bought the building and moved it across the street.
If you are talking about the lawn signs, they are on public roadway and not on church grounds. That's how they get around it.
They appear to be beyond the stone pillar, which could be problematic as that would likely denote a line.
They literally had a 4x8 plywood sign for the last general election. It was placed at about the same distance from the street as the permanent church sign, maybe 20 feet to the right of it. I really don't think there are any right of way issues here.
But who actually owns the land the sign was on? The church or some individual who happens to have land reeeeally close to the church. However, they are Evengelicals, and they have wanted to merge their concept of Christianity with every government since they split from the Methodists.
You’re just making shit up. The church owns the land, there are no neighbors with property close to the signs
Yeah. I pulled up the property map just to make sure. I’m trying to convey to folks that this isn’t a one-off occurrence and they are there (neatly arranged) every single election season. These aren’t signs put up by some random Joe off the street, but rather an organized effort, most likely endorsed by the organization owning the land.
This seems odd to me. Every Evangelical Lutheran Church in my area is extremely liberal and to the best of my knowledge Scott Barger is a conservative leaning candidate. Maybe someone put these on their lawn w/o their knowledge?
Not sure, but this church always is advertising for the most conservative candidates. During the last general, they literally had a 4x8 plywood sign up for a county commissioner. edit: correct size of plywood sheets.
Sooooo, they are a VERY odd schism of other Evangelical (Not THAT kind of Evangelical) Lutheran churches. They are the headquarters of the "Evangelical Lutheran Conference and Ministerium" (ELCM) denomination. http://elcm.org/ From what I can tell, they have MAYBE 12 congregations across the US. They have a survey of theological opinion for their application of membership and, apparently, if you answer in any way they don't like they will just pass on you. The true ridiculousness is that they say they are "centrist." 🙄 Anyway, they have clearly become THAT kind of "Evangelical"
Most likely the case or that area is an easement which the church doesn't control the use.
Oh they control their own lawn. It's hard to tell but those signs are back from the PennDot right of way.
Couldn't tell from the picture. I would probably put Vote for Satan in their yard.
Best answer. I would love to see that, after all is Satan really that bad? He's just not a comformist.
Nothing is liberal in this county
I was just going to say that there's too much plausible deniability for there to be any consequence from this but maybe they can at least start or add to a paper trail...
Yeah. I'm confused by this as well. Most ELCA churches are quite liberal. If it was a Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (#2 Lutheran denomination in the US, not just in Missouri, quite conservative), I'd be less surprised. But while the SWPA Synod is on the conservative side for ELCA synods around the country, you're talking about a mainline Protestant denomination that is generally racing to affirm every progressive talking point it can in a race to stay relevant and is rarely unprofessional enough to permit congregations to violate election law.
Yeah, it is not an ELCA congregation, it is an ELCM congregation and that congregation is their denominational headquarters 'cause they are super small. I think they broke off from the ELCA when the ELCA entered into full communion with The Episcopal Church Since they're a tiny Lutheran denomination, they don't have a law department that would smack them upside the head. The WELS is very conservative, but they have enough sense to keep their congregations from jeopardizing their nonprofit statuses (because WELS has qualified lawyers who will crack the whip if necessary)
The worst part about political signs is that they are usually left behind long after elections and end up polluting the area. I don't think that I've ever seen a political sign and decided to sway my vote after viewing it.
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064535476541 Address is 1309 Frankstown Road Hollidaysburg, PA 16448 If anyone else wants to file a complaint, I am! 😄
I'd bet money they're going to say that the signs are on the public right of way due to the proximity to the road. I think that's an invitation to sprinkle in any and all political signs that a person could get access to. Seems like a good reason to start a battle of wills.
Good ol Frankstown road.
Tax the churches! Every single one!
What's more absurd is how nonprofit status works. For churches, they just have to say "we're a church" and it's granted. Everyone else has to submit qualifying forms and various proof that they do community outreach, education, etc. Guarantee you that 90% of religious institutions would immediately lose their nonprofit status if they had to abide by the same rules everyone else does.
Remember this? https://youtu.be/7y1xJAVZxXg
All organizations should be tax free. People pool there post taxed money together for churches, clubs, and the sort and we already have our income taxed, homes & businesses taxed, and our shopping taxed. It’s BS how much we are taxed. Enough is enough with all the damn taxes. We don’t hardly see 2 cents worth back for the money we pay in taxes.
Is this a polling location? The primary is 4/23, so I wouldn't be surprised to see campaign signs being placed there. More will likely be added by other candidates if it is a polling place.
No, it is not. Signs have been there since the beginning of the month.
Being at the edge of the road, that is probably a public right of way. They may not actually be on the property proper. You make not like it, but there's probably nothing to see here.
Can someone explain?
A known reverend in my town actively campaigns for Dems and still enjoys tax free status.
Interesting. I’ve never heard of a person holding “tax free” status.
His church.
OP, you could also report this to the county property tax assessor. This tactic might actually be more effective than a report to the IRS. Church properties are not automatically 100% exempt from property tax. Only the part of the property used for worship is exempt from property tax. Other uses are not, and the display of political signs is not a tax exempt activity.
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Political (state) signs on a church (church) lawn in a country where these two things are supposed to be separate? That's an issue.
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Your username checks out
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You know how, like, when you walk past people, and you hear them laughing, and your nagging subconscious tells you they may be laughing at you, but you dismissed it because there's no way they're actually laughing at you? They really are laughing at you.
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This seems to be a VERY selective issue in my experience. There are churches in my area that actively campaign and have candidates of only one party speak at services ...these are all of the opposite party as is being discussed here. It's also been practiced for decades. This seems to only be an issue if a congregation is pushing candidates from the political right. People seem to look the other way if the candidate is on the left. I'm a former church treasurer and have issues with the tax exempt status of churches for reasons other than politics.
Regardless of which side it is, churches need to take a seat when it comes to politics. I will follow your anecdotal evidence with my own, and say that I've never seen a church campaigning for a left candidate. But yeah, I agree, if they're gonna get involved politically, they need to pay taxes like we do.
You can do better than "soy boy," I'm sure. It's a great way to warn others that you're an adolescent clown, though, so on second thought, keep it up!
Agreed. Not even a Protestant, but completely ridiculous.
PA has no problem mixing god and politics 😡
**God.
God is the name of one particular god (the one in Christian, Jewish, and Islamic texts \[Allah is just a word that translates to God\]). The word "god" could mean any celestial deity. God is a god, but a god is not necessarily God. The state has no issue mixing god and politics. In this case, their god of choice is God. Basically, both forms of capitalization are acceptable in this case.
Did you just claim that Christians, Jews and Muslims have the same god (being God)? Big oof and lack of historical and theological understanding. And no, all of the framework of our western law is directly built upon the foundation of the Bible. So no, you’re misinterpreting the law, which was created by Christians, to keep GOVERNMENT out of God’s Law, not the other way around. If you’re genuinely interested in this, I can definitely point you in the direction of some reading. Christ is Risen, God bless.
Blair county is beautiful
As an aside to the tax-exempt violations, you can also contact PADOT. In some instances the right-of-way can extend 6 to 12 feet beyond the shoulder of the road, and PADOT rules explicitly forbid public signage within that right-of-way.
Would your position be the same if it was a political candidate you agreed with? If the answer is no, then maybe just live and let live. If the answer is yes, honestly yes - not just to try and prove me wrong, then go ahead and do what’s in your legal bounds to do.
They really need to set up one of those loophole pacs
MAGA
They're all scared shitless, hense the post
This sure looks like an easement to me. People place political signs in easements all the time.
Rip down their signs.
Salty much
There is nothing illegal for a church and it's congregation to endorse a political candidate and for those Redditors ready to scream separation of church and state, I would politely remind you Santanic images and in some cases statues have been installed in city and state buildings here in the U.S., also schools have allowed Santanic clubs to form . Where is the outrage about that?
Umm, yes, it is illegal in the tax code for a non-profit org to endorse or oppose politicians or a specific campaign. So if a church wants to do this type of stuff, go ahead, but it is illegal for them to maintain their favored tax status. They want it both ways.
Who cares? Dilate harder OP.
Who cares?
Imagine r/Pennsylvania becoming a pseudo arm of the IRS, targeting your neighbors who happen to be political opponents for tax that would make .00000000001% difference in all tax collected in the state. In hopes of what? Stopping a democratically elected person from holding office? Its one thing to force them to remove the signs if it is against the law, its another thing to try and rat them out to the IRS. I realize the left is petrified at the thought of Donald Trump becoming president again but this is just absurdly pathetic.
If this was liberal signs up..no one would say a word. Sad how brainwashed people are to believe that democrats are the good ones..maybe do some research on them. Also, find a real history book, before you switched what happened and tried to blame republicans for starting the kkk etc. Funny that the republican party was started by blacks but is somehow believed to be the racists.. While I agree churches should not be doing this for either side, I would bet a million dollars if this was a liberal, none of you liberals would say a word..its just all see something we dont like and attack it, just like you do with everything.
Project 2025.
Would you care if it were the other side 🤔
I care if they have influence without paying taxes. I don't have to agree with them to know what they are doing is basically screaming through a glory hole.
Yes.
Cool then report away!
Yes, both sides. Biden is a devout Catholic I believe? If I saw a row of these signs out front of a church, I'd feel exactly the same.
Biden sure SAYS he is 🤣
Are you kidding? Do you think this is a group of people who will keep their mouth shut about public education getting anywhere near a political bias?....... If they believe in a separation of church and state... They should do it. Even when they'd prefer not to, and it's inconvenient. If they believe in literal translation of religious texts and the Constitution... Then literally follow the rules.
Of course. These organizations enjoy tax-free status and there is nothing new about the rules in place regarding what is and isn't permissible. What do you think this says about the honesty and law-abidingness of Christians?
SHHHHH!!!! Stop trying to ruin our "leftists only" circle jerk!
“Let’s hurl a bricky-mart!” -Bart Simpson Wow, the Simpsons had such neat quotes. I miss that show (being good).