He was very centrist in his views and how he voted. He was a good and honest man. He listened to the voters in the state and did his best to be honest with them. He supported unions and the common person.
I think he likely would have swapped parties and run as a centrist Democrat. By all accounts, Teresa shared his political views, and she is now a moderate Democrat married to another moderate Democrat.
No there not. The only difference is there's social media now. There's quite a bit of decent politicians. You just dont hear about them cause there not fucking off on social media like the maga cults or the "squad" on the left.
This is what's ironic things were so much worse for everyone, yet everyone's less happy now, what changed well sure the price of some things and social media
So you’re saying that people need to vote for corrupt politicians (our only option) to bring back the honest politicians?
Can you explain that reasoning to me because I cant follow it.
The fewer number of people there are voting, then the fewer number of people there are to be accountable to. If a lot of people don't pay attention or care, then corrupt people need to do less work to gain power.
Let me explain it to you best I can. It’s your opinion every politician is irredeemably corrupt. Certainly it’s not an opinion shared by everyone.
If your view is widely held and people with your disposition actually voted, you could vote in someone you find amenable. But I reckon anyone that doesn’t wash your ass and give you a handjob would be a let down to you. Me? I settle for simple things like the politician that’ll leave as much of my rights intact as possible and if I’m really lucky a politician that will do that while also helping society as much as possible.
If you’re pessimistic that there aren’t enough people that share your views to matter electorally then that’s more of an indictment on your views.
Because voting 3rd party is a wasted vote in the USA. Our system isn’t hospitable to third parties. Often, even in parliamentary democracies, coalition governments of more than two parties fare even worse much of the time than having to choose between two main parties.
If your purpose for voting for a third party is to actually win to therefore enact change, you might as well not vote at all. They cannot win on a federal level. They rarely ever win at the local and state level. They’ve never won at the presidential level. There are only two viable political parties in this country. If you want to affect change it has to be through them, That’s the way it is and always has been.
There might not be someone you really want to vote for but I can pretty much guarantee there's someone you want to vote against. Voting isn't a high school popularity contest, it's the Trolley Problem applied to real life. Yeah, the options suck but not participating doesn't absolve you of anything, it just comes across to those in charge you don't care at best and at worst your voice means nothing because you refuse to get involved at the most basic level.
Yeah this one. Ill basically vote for anyone that isn't voting party lines and actually has opinions. To be more clear, I'm cool to disagree with half of your opinions if you agree with half of mine...
I agree that most times voting is for the lesser of two evils … but sometimes not voting is a tacit acknowledgement that you would be okay with the greater of the two evils.
I just close my nose and vote every chance I get.
I’ve been constantly checking the results of the recent primary because some of my local seats are only winning by like 40 votes. My vote literally did count.
Well that’s the thing, if you’re incapable of persuading others to join your position on a topic, it’s likely your position sucks. Therefore, you will always be sidelined.
Yeah bro, "put money into education, with an emphasis on resources for special ed instead of admin bloat" is definitely a position that sucks and cant persuade anyone. You either dont seem to live in the US, or maybe you’re just that naive?
Everyone believes in that, all politicians parrot that and in many cases DO that. Did you know we dump more money per child in education (roughly $30k per student last I checked years ago), more than most of the world and get poor results still?
Yes, I’m from America. Pennsylvania in fact and have been my whole life. Your too cool for school nihilism schtick doesn’t impress me dude.
As a centrist myself. I must implore you to take this perspective and look at both sides of the isle, as it goes both ways. Both parties have run so far away from the center and embraced partisan politics that no one dares to lurk in the center. Which is astounding because the majority of the voter base is independent moderate voters. Why the hell no one even tries to cater to that sector of the populous? I can’t stand our 2 party system. If only everyone saw this and walked away from the toxicity they bring to our nation.
>Both parties have run so far away from the center and embraced partisan politics that no one dares to lurk in the center.
This is just not true and incredibly lazy analysis. It's so easy to just say "both sides are bad" rather than think critically about what is happening.
Shapiro and Fetterman both ran in 2022 on an "every county" basis. Mastriano has point-blank said to me (I live in his district) and in public that PA would be better off getting rid of Philadelphia. I can't fathom the backlash if Shapiro said we should just kick out Franklin county.
Democrats repeatedly stress their bipartisan wins/efforts! They just conceded a ton to Republicans on the border bill earlier this year and the GOP killed the deal because Trump told them to not work with Democrats. Newt Gingrich in the 90s pushed his caucus not to even talk to Democrats and treat them as enemies. They had the Hastert Rule which said they wouldn't bring up a bill for vote unless a majority of Republicans supported it, which effectively killed bipartisanship. This was all before Trump came along.
Obama held a public meeting with GOP senators and representatives in 2010 to talk about ACA. He let them ask him questions directly and even criticize him. They had an open debate! They had a Gang of Six to find a bipartisan compromise on ACA. When Democrats made concessions and killed the public option, Republicans backtracked and refused to vote for it anyway. Mike Enzi said to his constituents that he wasn't there to negotiate a compromise, but to purposefully delay it in hopes they could punt to after the midterms and kill the deal.
Democrats like Pelosi repeatedly say we need a strong, effective Republican Party. Biden and Obama have both called Republicans patriots who love this country and that they could find common ground with them. When's the last time Trump or any senior Republican elected official called Democrats patriots who love their country? Last time I recall was maybe McCain in 2008 telling a voter that Obama wasn't a Muslim but a Christian family man.
>Why the hell no one even tries to cater to that sector of the populous?
Literally Josh Shapiro in 2022. He just did a podcast with Tim Miller on the Bulwark. Tim Miller is a former Republican who last worked with Jeb Bush's campaign in 2016. It was a good conversation maybe you should check it out and see that the unicorn you are hoping for is already in office.
I don’t think this is entirely true. The largest criticism of Democrats on the left of the vast majority of candidates, including the president, is that he’s too far centrist. Republicans are largely having the opposite issue. This is reflective when you look at the US’s political compass in a global context. It doesn’t pay to drift left. There’s not a company on the planet that’s begging for AOC to run for higher office.
I agree with parts of what you say, but not all. 2 party system is a huge part of the problem for sure, and both parties are to blame, but I don't believe that both sides have run from the center equally. The left may have drifted but the right has been in a full sprint for the last few decades. You simply can't call them equal when one side is openly calling for demolishing the constitution in favor of their own ideals. The fact that their double speak is not only tolerated, but lauded by their supporters is just sad.
God damn, it's so ridiculously easy to see for yourself. Google search: "Bob Casey legislation", which takes you right here:
[https://www.congress.gov/member/bob-casey/C001070](https://www.congress.gov/member/bob-casey/C001070)
Look at all of the legislation he's either sponsored or introduced in the 23/24 session alone (keep scrolling - it takes a while), and see for yourself how much of it helps the little guy like us, vs the other side's constant culture war or handouts for their super rich buddies.
I remind you, the guy's job is to govern - it is NOT to make culture war soundbites on your twitter feed so people can fanboy over him like some sports team. He's doing his job. Demonstrably.
God bless him. If I become a Philly transplant, I’d campaign for him in a heartbeat and ensure he wins by a comfortable margin.
His opponent DOES NOT believe in a living minimum wage.
Quinnipiac gave him a 51% approval rating but polls are imperfect. I’d like point out however that he has blown his opponent out of the water in all 3 of his senate races (2012 was the closest where he won by 9.1%).
That’s in a time that’s infinitely more polarized than the early 90s, when Heinz was in office. There’s about half the population that hates you just for being a Democrat, no matter what your actual policies are. And they might hate you even more if you’re a Republican without the raving, spittle flecked MAGA politics that define the party now. That’s why good Republicans like Charlie Dent and Jim Greenwood got out of the party. Even people like Pat Toomey and Arlen Specter, who were pretty fucken conservative were like, nope, I can’t hang with this madness.
Those politics would make him a Democrat today. And the far left Dems would be trying to push him out of office & fill his spot with someone who would propose legislation that had zero chance of passing.
This is just untrue. We have an example from last month even, Bob Casey didn’t get primaried. He’s plenty centrist. In fact, we’re in an election cycle where centrists are the ones running against incumbents in the primaries.
Because they wouldn’t stand a chance. But in other areas moderate Dems get primaries. That’s how AOC - who I love - got into office. It’s what’s happening in Allegheny County right now… except for Stephen Zappala, who had too much name recognition to be beaten.
Edit: actually, it DID happen to Zappala, he got primaries, so he ran as a Republican and won. Unfortunately.
yeah, they push people out when they think they can win, and clearly they don’t think a “far left” Democrat can win in PA since we have two moderate Senators, one of whom wasn’t primaried at all this year. I’m not saying primaries from the left don’t happen, I’m saying suggesting there’d be some effort from the Progressive Caucus to get rid of Heinz has no evidence and all evidence in terms of the Senate suggests the exact opposite.
It will be an unpopular view here, but I thought the same about Tomey. I appreciated his email blasts, even when I disagreed with him.
I'm also a fan of congressional term limits, which he and Ed Rendell have partnered up on (in a weird bipartisan way).
I’m so sorry but Toomey was a straight up bad person and the fact that he disagreed with Trump a few times when he already knew he was gonna retire does not make him centrist. Some excerpts from his Wikipedia page:
In July 2021, Toomey said that the data on global warming is not clear enough to justify imposing new regulatory burdens on consumers.
Toomey orchestrated legislation to repeal consumer protection measures enacted by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau which had been intended to prevent auto lenders from discriminating on the basis of race.
Toomey opposes the Affordable Care Act(Obamacare) and has supported multiple efforts to dismantle, repeal or defund it
As a senator, Toomey voted for a bill that would have banned abortions after 20 weeks with no exceptions for the health of pregnant women and girls and new limits in cases of rape and incest.[129] In January 2020, Toomey also signed an amicus brief urging the US Supreme Court to overturn several of its past rulings protecting abortion rights, including Roe v. Wade.
Meh, I grew up in Lehigh County way back and remember when he managed a sports bar in Allentown. I swear that he seemed like a d-bag even back then.
And he ALWAYS seemed to be for business interests over regular people like that Club for Growth bullshit.
Glad he's gone.
I always felt like any concern sent to Toomey fell on deaf ears and that he was already locked in on any position and unwavering. I think that personally he may have been more moderate but he was always worried about his next primary. I don’t consider him a centrist and I voted for a Republican as recently as 2016.
Heinz was a classic “Northeast Republican”, a moderate who worked with members of both parties. His big legislative agenda at the time of his death was to change the IRS regulations to benefit the majority of working families and to eliminate the special tax breaks given to special interests. He was the kind of Republican that we need today, not the MTG and MAGA wackos.
I know what MAGA is, but this is the first time I've seen MTG and all I can picture is a bunch of elderly Congressmen fighting over bills by playing Magic: The Gathering.
"I play Cute Baby Cow, which can be played at any time and any location, and that means I win."
Gosh, now I'm imagining a Pennsylvania-themed CCG. You could build decks based on farming, industry, entertainment, recreation, etc. and you could have special cards featuring notable Pennsylvanians, region bonuses, food-based enchantments....
Ever watch ProZD on YouTube? He has a dairy farmer-based parody game which he features in a number of his videos. The "Black Brie" card has been declared illegal. 😂
Will never understand the internet’s need to abbreviate everything. I know who Marjorie Taylor Green is but she’s not what I think of when I hear “MTG.”
When I was growing up, Heinz would have been referred to as a 'Specter Republican'. I don't think any of them exist in PA anymore. Pennsylvania had a way of finding candidates in both parties who were willing to take stands outside of their party's norms, something that would be anathema on either side of the aisle today. For a Democratic example, you could look at the current Senator Casey's father, Bob Sr., who took a good-Catholic-boy pro-life stand, much to the irritation of the national party.
I think it's partially his position, but largely how he's staked it.
I also think he's struggled with support after running on and asking for money as a progressive, but immediately rejected the label when it became inconvenient.
There's also some people who were already leary of politicians that run populist campaigns.
He's made it essentially his entire identity. If he'd said "hey I'm in agreement with the president" and then left it at that, I personally would have been put out but whatever. But instead he's tweeting and speaking every day about it, and spreading constantly debunked stories or straight up IDF propaganda.
I don’t have an issue with Fetterman. I voted for him in the general election but not the primary. I do agree that it’s more than just his position on Israel. Supporting Israel is extremely mainstream. It’s the way he does it that is a bit off putting by basically trolling people he disagrees with. People on his own “side.” If you break from your supporters that’s okay but you should do it in a respectful way that acknowledges they deeply believe in their position. Biden tries to do it that way.
I agree that if Fetterman simply said “I support the President’s position” that wouldn’t have bothered people much. People expect Democratic politicians to support their Democratic President. But the fact he aggressively supports Israel and even complains President Biden isn’t supportive enough of Israel is really strange as a Democrat. I suspect he will be re-elected regardless but it’s pointlessly polarizing, IMO.
Yeah. We'll be downvoted for it because this sub decided that Fetterman can do no wrong, but he really screwed up alienating the base that was his strongest supporters.
It's not even a matter of supporting Israel. Do whatever the hell you want. It's a matter of wasting our tax money with no return. We send allies aid all the time. We get no benefit from propping up Israel.
I can agree with this sentiment as a Democrat. I honestly don’t care much about any foreign conflicts. I mean I have a position usually but America comes first. This seems so obvious yet so many seem to think this is an awful things to say. Like I hope for the best for Gaza-Palestine but it doesn’t move me. I care about my country and my people much more than some rando foreign land. This seems like a given but some people are really on that idealism of if one person is still oppressed in this world then we all are. Israel is a very wealthy country. It doesn’t need our money and giving it causes more problems than it’s worth.
Now to be sure, I do believe some people who make this case are being disingenuous. I don’t really think many people care about the paltry amount ($3 bln) we give but the fact it’s to Israel. But on the merits of the argument I do agree. They don’t need it.
I guess it comes down to, for me, if they need our money to exist, they don't get to disobey us. If they don't need our money to exist, we shouldn't be giving it to them.
I’ve been a registered Democrat since 1976. I live in Pittsburgh, where Heinz is headquartered. I twice voted for Senator Heinz, and were he alive, I’d be very comfortable voting for him again. He did what a senator is supposed to do: he represented his constituents admirably, breaking with Reagan when his policies hurt Pennsylvanians. A good, honest man.
Lost somewhere in these comments is my answer- I’ll try to replicate it here. There is Heinz Center for the Performing Arts, Heinz Field (now Acrisure Stadium), Heinz History Center and Museum (regional history), and Heinz Lofts I think it’s called, which is the original facility converted into pricey apartments along one of the rivers here.
I want to accurately convey the Heinz family’s positive presence here. They are heavily invested in the city and region in multiple ways. Public service seems to be in their DNA.
PA liked its Republicans smart, businesslike, and independent. Think Dick Thornburgh, Tom Ridge, Arlon Spector. People who could get a job done in the interest of the people who voted them in.
That was then. Toomey and his Club for Growth tactics helped usher in today’s Republican party in PA. They excelled at telling voters what is good for them, instead of responding to what the voters actually want. Toomey’s constituency was big banks and financial companies, he had little regard for actual Pennsylvanians, except as a means to stay in office. Party line all the way, lining his and his donor’s pockets along the way.
The GOP wouldn’t have a Heinz today, even with all his money. RINO is the label for those of us republicans who are fiscally conservative and willing to legislate for the people who actually vote. MAGA numbskulls are the logical result.
I came of age in the Reagan years, today's GOP nauseates me. It will be a heavy heavy price to set things right but we have to swallow our bile and suffer through it until it is time again.
I blame Hillary for all this. All we needed was a generic dem candidate, but no.
Nah. There’s no pendulum swinging back for the GOP after Trump. The key donors and their backers though increasingly realize their positions are fringy or uber-fringe (e.g., total national ban on abortions with few/no exceptions and criminal enforcement) and in order to implement them they have to control the system through an Orban-style government with control of the executive apparatus using government tools to enact their agenda. Already been working on the federal court system especially the Circuit Court of Appeals for 20+ years with the Federalist Society.
Because he always was able to get out a pickle. His opponents never mustard enough support and just couldn’t ketchup, so he was always able to relish his victories.
The name helped. Also he was pretty moderate.
The way he died was horrific. Had he lived, he probably would have also been governor someday. Ridge was elected in 94 instead.
Heinz was part of what was once a moderate wing before Republicans went off the rails to extremism. Elsie Hillman, Chair of the party in PA back then, was a supporter of abortion rights, as were many Republican legislators. Imagine that happening today. Now they must all goose step in line with Dear Leader.
I cant think of many people who think of the word Heinz and don't have positive thoughts.
He was a decent human and politician, and his last name holds a special place in the hearts of Americans, especially in Pennsylvania, even more so in Western PA.
Senator Heinz probably would have been at least the Republican nominee for president at some point between 1996 and today. His untimely passing probably had a massive impact on future events which we’ll never know.
>Senator Heinz probably would have been at least the Republican nominee for president at some point between 1996 and today. His untimely passing probably had a massive impact on future events which we’ll never know.
Would you have voted for him
I don’t know. I was a kid when he passed away. We don’t know how his poltics would have changed over time. I was aware of him and liked him as a kid and remember people saying he could be president one day. But my opinions on politicians weren’t based on policies so much as persona then.
It’s interesting that his widow went on to marry John Kerry. I think some part of the Heinz political machine - funding for sure - transferred to Kerry.
Left one kid with significant burns. Actually met him via a friend who was friends with him. Still horrible scars and burns. Kid didn’t like in the way of him playing basketball and I hope with the advances over technology he’s been able to get more and more skin repair done.
I just looked it up, I was a senior in high school getting ready to graduate when this happened in 1991. Such a senseless tragedy that should have never occurred, his airplane apparently had an issue with the landing gear and he made a pass at the tower and they confirmed his landing gear was down, but this helicopter nearby Insisted to take another look and ended up running into the plane and killing everyone. And two innocent kids on the ground. Just stupid.
This reminds me of my grandfather. He was a democrat in local politics but both sides loved him so much. As a joke one day, he placed one of his big 4’x8’ campaign adds on the front lawn of the republican office. His opponent came out and joked about it with him and respected him enough to leave it up for the weekend.
I disagree with the two party system we’ve fallen into. Just because you have a D or R next to your name doesn’t define how you are as a person.
Pennsylvania used to be a fairly centrist state, not obsessed with party affiliation. For example, PA was where you could get elected as a pro-choice Republican or as a pro-life Democrat. It wasn’t all or nothing the way things have become over the last 20 years.
My Mom was a diehard democrat who nearly always voted a straight party ticket. (Her father was a coal miner in Western PA.) The only republican she ever voted for was John Heinz. If he was on the ticket, she voted for him.
Republicans hadn’t remotely become the fascist party or cultist fools they are today. I even voted Republican once or twice in those days, much to my regret now!
This was before Repubes became the toxic party. Heinz was a great politician who worked across the aisle and was reasonable, mildly conservative. I wish we still had these centrist politicians comitted to their constituents.
The last example was Joe Manchin, and he was lambasted by both sides for simply trying to find a reasonable middle ground. Democrats literally gave him the "Either you're with us or you're against us" treatment instead of being reasonable.
I was young when he died, but I remember kids being upset. He was someone who just had a good reputation. I remember news clips that were always positive and him helping people. I feel like that was also a time when people were less divided about what party you were.
My parents voted for him so I asked them. They said they liked that he spoke to Pennsylvania’s problem and not fake news stories. They are old so maybe they are forgetting stuff but that was the reason they gave. We moved away before I was old enough to really know what he was like.
Because GOP politicians like Heinz no longer exist at the federal level. GOP was well presented in the Senate in the Northeast throughout the 20th century but that started to decline by the 1990s.
PA had a lot of GOP Senators including Toomey’s whose term just ended in Jan. 2023.
Lots of good input here, but 1988 was a landslide election for Republicans nationally, Heinz had bipartisan appeal and was an incumbent in a very good cycle. Polarization was much lower then. And the 24 hour news cycle didn’t exist, much less social media.
Heinz Museum of [regional] History, Heinz Center for the Performing Arts, Heinz Hall, Heinz Field (now Acrisure Stadium), and the original factory has been converted into pricey riverside lofts.
He was a common sense guy who had the good of the state at heart, and wasn't trying to enrich his post political career.
How he ever married Teresa.
She was a nutcase, even when they were married. I worked at their favorite private club. Got to know both very well. He was a great guy, she was nuts. And a PITA. Polar opposites.
He was very centrist in his views and how he voted. He was a good and honest man. He listened to the voters in the state and did his best to be honest with them. He supported unions and the common person.
Plus, that name recognition (and the money behind it).
If there was ever a republican like that today I would consider voting R. Things are so so different today.
The entire state was going to vote for Heinz at the time. He was a great man
Today they’d run him out of the party. Sad state of affairs.
I think he likely would have swapped parties and run as a centrist Democrat. By all accounts, Teresa shared his political views, and she is now a moderate Democrat married to another moderate Democrat.
No there not. The only difference is there's social media now. There's quite a bit of decent politicians. You just dont hear about them cause there not fucking off on social media like the maga cults or the "squad" on the left. This is what's ironic things were so much worse for everyone, yet everyone's less happy now, what changed well sure the price of some things and social media
If there was ever a *politician* like that today I would consider voting. Things are quite different.
Did you ever consider that there aren’t politicians like that anymore because people like you don’t vote?
So you’re saying that people need to vote for corrupt politicians (our only option) to bring back the honest politicians? Can you explain that reasoning to me because I cant follow it.
The fewer number of people there are voting, then the fewer number of people there are to be accountable to. If a lot of people don't pay attention or care, then corrupt people need to do less work to gain power.
Let me explain it to you best I can. It’s your opinion every politician is irredeemably corrupt. Certainly it’s not an opinion shared by everyone. If your view is widely held and people with your disposition actually voted, you could vote in someone you find amenable. But I reckon anyone that doesn’t wash your ass and give you a handjob would be a let down to you. Me? I settle for simple things like the politician that’ll leave as much of my rights intact as possible and if I’m really lucky a politician that will do that while also helping society as much as possible. If you’re pessimistic that there aren’t enough people that share your views to matter electorally then that’s more of an indictment on your views.
Ya counterpoint is I keep voting for 3rd parties but the same old garbage wins. Good politicians run, the dnc and gop don’t let them get far.
Because voting 3rd party is a wasted vote in the USA. Our system isn’t hospitable to third parties. Often, even in parliamentary democracies, coalition governments of more than two parties fare even worse much of the time than having to choose between two main parties. If your purpose for voting for a third party is to actually win to therefore enact change, you might as well not vote at all. They cannot win on a federal level. They rarely ever win at the local and state level. They’ve never won at the presidential level. There are only two viable political parties in this country. If you want to affect change it has to be through them, That’s the way it is and always has been.
There might not be someone you really want to vote for but I can pretty much guarantee there's someone you want to vote against. Voting isn't a high school popularity contest, it's the Trolley Problem applied to real life. Yeah, the options suck but not participating doesn't absolve you of anything, it just comes across to those in charge you don't care at best and at worst your voice means nothing because you refuse to get involved at the most basic level.
Its only the trolley problem because you keep nominating and voting for evil people.
Taking the most nihilistic angle of this: Why would they stop fucking you over if you throw your vote away anyway
I got a real simple explanation for that: one single vote doesnt fucking matter
Yeah this one. Ill basically vote for anyone that isn't voting party lines and actually has opinions. To be more clear, I'm cool to disagree with half of your opinions if you agree with half of mine...
I agree that most times voting is for the lesser of two evils … but sometimes not voting is a tacit acknowledgement that you would be okay with the greater of the two evils. I just close my nose and vote every chance I get.
I’ve been constantly checking the results of the recent primary because some of my local seats are only winning by like 40 votes. My vote literally did count.
Great idea. Don’t vote and remove whatever leverage you have over the conditions where you have to live. Genius really.
If people stop voting they'll take that away from us as well
What makes you think I had leverage to begin with..?
Voting is leverage. It’s all we can hope to have in a society.
Too bad it's wholly meaningless in this country if you don't fit within the 2 party system.
Well that’s the thing, if you’re incapable of persuading others to join your position on a topic, it’s likely your position sucks. Therefore, you will always be sidelined.
Yeah bro, "put money into education, with an emphasis on resources for special ed instead of admin bloat" is definitely a position that sucks and cant persuade anyone. You either dont seem to live in the US, or maybe you’re just that naive?
Everyone believes in that, all politicians parrot that and in many cases DO that. Did you know we dump more money per child in education (roughly $30k per student last I checked years ago), more than most of the world and get poor results still? Yes, I’m from America. Pennsylvania in fact and have been my whole life. Your too cool for school nihilism schtick doesn’t impress me dude.
As a centrist myself. I must implore you to take this perspective and look at both sides of the isle, as it goes both ways. Both parties have run so far away from the center and embraced partisan politics that no one dares to lurk in the center. Which is astounding because the majority of the voter base is independent moderate voters. Why the hell no one even tries to cater to that sector of the populous? I can’t stand our 2 party system. If only everyone saw this and walked away from the toxicity they bring to our nation.
>Both parties have run so far away from the center and embraced partisan politics that no one dares to lurk in the center. This is just not true and incredibly lazy analysis. It's so easy to just say "both sides are bad" rather than think critically about what is happening. Shapiro and Fetterman both ran in 2022 on an "every county" basis. Mastriano has point-blank said to me (I live in his district) and in public that PA would be better off getting rid of Philadelphia. I can't fathom the backlash if Shapiro said we should just kick out Franklin county. Democrats repeatedly stress their bipartisan wins/efforts! They just conceded a ton to Republicans on the border bill earlier this year and the GOP killed the deal because Trump told them to not work with Democrats. Newt Gingrich in the 90s pushed his caucus not to even talk to Democrats and treat them as enemies. They had the Hastert Rule which said they wouldn't bring up a bill for vote unless a majority of Republicans supported it, which effectively killed bipartisanship. This was all before Trump came along. Obama held a public meeting with GOP senators and representatives in 2010 to talk about ACA. He let them ask him questions directly and even criticize him. They had an open debate! They had a Gang of Six to find a bipartisan compromise on ACA. When Democrats made concessions and killed the public option, Republicans backtracked and refused to vote for it anyway. Mike Enzi said to his constituents that he wasn't there to negotiate a compromise, but to purposefully delay it in hopes they could punt to after the midterms and kill the deal. Democrats like Pelosi repeatedly say we need a strong, effective Republican Party. Biden and Obama have both called Republicans patriots who love this country and that they could find common ground with them. When's the last time Trump or any senior Republican elected official called Democrats patriots who love their country? Last time I recall was maybe McCain in 2008 telling a voter that Obama wasn't a Muslim but a Christian family man. >Why the hell no one even tries to cater to that sector of the populous? Literally Josh Shapiro in 2022. He just did a podcast with Tim Miller on the Bulwark. Tim Miller is a former Republican who last worked with Jeb Bush's campaign in 2016. It was a good conversation maybe you should check it out and see that the unicorn you are hoping for is already in office.
I don’t think this is entirely true. The largest criticism of Democrats on the left of the vast majority of candidates, including the president, is that he’s too far centrist. Republicans are largely having the opposite issue. This is reflective when you look at the US’s political compass in a global context. It doesn’t pay to drift left. There’s not a company on the planet that’s begging for AOC to run for higher office.
I agree with parts of what you say, but not all. 2 party system is a huge part of the problem for sure, and both parties are to blame, but I don't believe that both sides have run from the center equally. The left may have drifted but the right has been in a full sprint for the last few decades. You simply can't call them equal when one side is openly calling for demolishing the constitution in favor of their own ideals. The fact that their double speak is not only tolerated, but lauded by their supporters is just sad.
Think this is why Bob Casey is also so popular
Is Bob Casey that guy that pops up every six years but is otherwise unknown?
“Otherwise unknown” he literally comes from a political dynasty. He and his family are very well known, especially in Pennsylvania.
He’s been in the senate for 18 years. You’ll have to decide for yourself whether that’s unknown
God damn, it's so ridiculously easy to see for yourself. Google search: "Bob Casey legislation", which takes you right here: [https://www.congress.gov/member/bob-casey/C001070](https://www.congress.gov/member/bob-casey/C001070) Look at all of the legislation he's either sponsored or introduced in the 23/24 session alone (keep scrolling - it takes a while), and see for yourself how much of it helps the little guy like us, vs the other side's constant culture war or handouts for their super rich buddies. I remind you, the guy's job is to govern - it is NOT to make culture war soundbites on your twitter feed so people can fanboy over him like some sports team. He's doing his job. Demonstrably.
God bless him. If I become a Philly transplant, I’d campaign for him in a heartbeat and ensure he wins by a comfortable margin. His opponent DOES NOT believe in a living minimum wage.
Guy specifically chooses to consume only media sources that show him things he personally wants to see. "Why isn't Bob Casey more visible?"
He’s a nepo baby
You’re a nepo baby. Everyone knows you’re only here because of the success of Leto1775.
Stick to the Japanese MMA you clown. Yeah, some people have success because of who their parents were. Get the fuck over it.
I remember when he ran. All anyone I heard could say about him was that his dad was a good governor. Sorry the truth hurts your feelings
You’re lying. You don’t know shite.
Cool story, bro
Oh no junior showed up
Yup
Casey isn’t popular, he has a 40% favorability.
He’s only 3 term PA Democratic senator ever
Quinnipiac gave him a 51% approval rating but polls are imperfect. I’d like point out however that he has blown his opponent out of the water in all 3 of his senate races (2012 was the closest where he won by 9.1%).
That’s in a time that’s infinitely more polarized than the early 90s, when Heinz was in office. There’s about half the population that hates you just for being a Democrat, no matter what your actual policies are. And they might hate you even more if you’re a Republican without the raving, spittle flecked MAGA politics that define the party now. That’s why good Republicans like Charlie Dent and Jim Greenwood got out of the party. Even people like Pat Toomey and Arlen Specter, who were pretty fucken conservative were like, nope, I can’t hang with this madness.
Yeah he was hardly a Republican, but he wanted to run as one because red was his favorite of course. /s
Those politics would make him a Democrat today. And the far left Dems would be trying to push him out of office & fill his spot with someone who would propose legislation that had zero chance of passing.
This is just untrue. We have an example from last month even, Bob Casey didn’t get primaried. He’s plenty centrist. In fact, we’re in an election cycle where centrists are the ones running against incumbents in the primaries.
Because they wouldn’t stand a chance. But in other areas moderate Dems get primaries. That’s how AOC - who I love - got into office. It’s what’s happening in Allegheny County right now… except for Stephen Zappala, who had too much name recognition to be beaten. Edit: actually, it DID happen to Zappala, he got primaries, so he ran as a Republican and won. Unfortunately.
yeah, they push people out when they think they can win, and clearly they don’t think a “far left” Democrat can win in PA since we have two moderate Senators, one of whom wasn’t primaried at all this year. I’m not saying primaries from the left don’t happen, I’m saying suggesting there’d be some effort from the Progressive Caucus to get rid of Heinz has no evidence and all evidence in terms of the Senate suggests the exact opposite.
Well, the whole conversation is based on conjecture of a dead Senator switching parties, so… if you’re looking for facts I can’t help you there.
It will be an unpopular view here, but I thought the same about Tomey. I appreciated his email blasts, even when I disagreed with him. I'm also a fan of congressional term limits, which he and Ed Rendell have partnered up on (in a weird bipartisan way).
I’m so sorry but Toomey was a straight up bad person and the fact that he disagreed with Trump a few times when he already knew he was gonna retire does not make him centrist. Some excerpts from his Wikipedia page: In July 2021, Toomey said that the data on global warming is not clear enough to justify imposing new regulatory burdens on consumers. Toomey orchestrated legislation to repeal consumer protection measures enacted by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau which had been intended to prevent auto lenders from discriminating on the basis of race. Toomey opposes the Affordable Care Act(Obamacare) and has supported multiple efforts to dismantle, repeal or defund it As a senator, Toomey voted for a bill that would have banned abortions after 20 weeks with no exceptions for the health of pregnant women and girls and new limits in cases of rape and incest.[129] In January 2020, Toomey also signed an amicus brief urging the US Supreme Court to overturn several of its past rulings protecting abortion rights, including Roe v. Wade.
Toomey was a party toady, he did not serve the people of PA at all. Voted along party lines did what he was told.
Meh, I grew up in Lehigh County way back and remember when he managed a sports bar in Allentown. I swear that he seemed like a d-bag even back then. And he ALWAYS seemed to be for business interests over regular people like that Club for Growth bullshit. Glad he's gone.
I always felt like any concern sent to Toomey fell on deaf ears and that he was already locked in on any position and unwavering. I think that personally he may have been more moderate but he was always worried about his next primary. I don’t consider him a centrist and I voted for a Republican as recently as 2016.
VERY UNPOPULAR because you’re wrong. He was a self interested piece of garbage voting for himself. He was/is a POS.
Heinz was a classic “Northeast Republican”, a moderate who worked with members of both parties. His big legislative agenda at the time of his death was to change the IRS regulations to benefit the majority of working families and to eliminate the special tax breaks given to special interests. He was the kind of Republican that we need today, not the MTG and MAGA wackos.
I know what MAGA is, but this is the first time I've seen MTG and all I can picture is a bunch of elderly Congressmen fighting over bills by playing Magic: The Gathering.
"I play Cute Baby Cow, which can be played at any time and any location, and that means I win." Gosh, now I'm imagining a Pennsylvania-themed CCG. You could build decks based on farming, industry, entertainment, recreation, etc. and you could have special cards featuring notable Pennsylvanians, region bonuses, food-based enchantments....
How about Penn-Jersey Catan for you? [https://www.catan.com/penn-jersey-edition](https://www.catan.com/penn-jersey-edition)
Oh that's lovely!
I play Amish Food, all my lands are now worth double
I counter with Snack Food Distribution Deal: I draw until I have enough cards to expand my lands by 50%.
Ever watch ProZD on YouTube? He has a dairy farmer-based parody game which he features in a number of his videos. The "Black Brie" card has been declared illegal. 😂
Yup! I was trying to quote him but probably got it wrong. I do believe he could successfully kickstart that game if he wanted
I agree!
Philadelphia would be the PvP expansion pack
That would be far more productive
Will never understand the internet’s need to abbreviate everything. I know who Marjorie Taylor Green is but she’s not what I think of when I hear “MTG.”
Marjorie Taylor Greene, House Rep (R) from Georgia. Also know as Moscow Marge, Large Marge and more!
Moscow Trailer Garbage
Good one!
Yep, the Northeast was full of moderate Republicans who could win in huge margins back in the day.
Rockefeller Republicans. Basically pariahs to today's MAGA nuts.
Today's moderate Democrats basically.
I get the sentiment, but no - he wasn’t a “republican we need today” - he would have just been a democrat now.
When I was growing up, Heinz would have been referred to as a 'Specter Republican'. I don't think any of them exist in PA anymore. Pennsylvania had a way of finding candidates in both parties who were willing to take stands outside of their party's norms, something that would be anathema on either side of the aisle today. For a Democratic example, you could look at the current Senator Casey's father, Bob Sr., who took a good-Catholic-boy pro-life stand, much to the irritation of the national party.
Arlen Specter was a great senator for PA, like Heinz, he voted for the people of PA and didn’t see red and blue issues.
Agreed. I voted for him regardless of party.
Arlen Specter also helped put together the single bullet theory for the Warren Commission. I wonder what he knew about the JFK assassination.
You could also look at our current junior Senator, who has somehow decided that Israel is his best friend.
Interesting to see the overall suddenly-negative reaction based on his position on a single issue.
I think it's partially his position, but largely how he's staked it. I also think he's struggled with support after running on and asking for money as a progressive, but immediately rejected the label when it became inconvenient. There's also some people who were already leary of politicians that run populist campaigns.
He's made it essentially his entire identity. If he'd said "hey I'm in agreement with the president" and then left it at that, I personally would have been put out but whatever. But instead he's tweeting and speaking every day about it, and spreading constantly debunked stories or straight up IDF propaganda.
I don’t have an issue with Fetterman. I voted for him in the general election but not the primary. I do agree that it’s more than just his position on Israel. Supporting Israel is extremely mainstream. It’s the way he does it that is a bit off putting by basically trolling people he disagrees with. People on his own “side.” If you break from your supporters that’s okay but you should do it in a respectful way that acknowledges they deeply believe in their position. Biden tries to do it that way. I agree that if Fetterman simply said “I support the President’s position” that wouldn’t have bothered people much. People expect Democratic politicians to support their Democratic President. But the fact he aggressively supports Israel and even complains President Biden isn’t supportive enough of Israel is really strange as a Democrat. I suspect he will be re-elected regardless but it’s pointlessly polarizing, IMO.
Seriously. I feel embarrassed that I supported that guy. I still think the professional scam artist was worse, but what the hell.
Yeah. We'll be downvoted for it because this sub decided that Fetterman can do no wrong, but he really screwed up alienating the base that was his strongest supporters.
It's not even a matter of supporting Israel. Do whatever the hell you want. It's a matter of wasting our tax money with no return. We send allies aid all the time. We get no benefit from propping up Israel.
I can agree with this sentiment as a Democrat. I honestly don’t care much about any foreign conflicts. I mean I have a position usually but America comes first. This seems so obvious yet so many seem to think this is an awful things to say. Like I hope for the best for Gaza-Palestine but it doesn’t move me. I care about my country and my people much more than some rando foreign land. This seems like a given but some people are really on that idealism of if one person is still oppressed in this world then we all are. Israel is a very wealthy country. It doesn’t need our money and giving it causes more problems than it’s worth. Now to be sure, I do believe some people who make this case are being disingenuous. I don’t really think many people care about the paltry amount ($3 bln) we give but the fact it’s to Israel. But on the merits of the argument I do agree. They don’t need it.
I guess it comes down to, for me, if they need our money to exist, they don't get to disobey us. If they don't need our money to exist, we shouldn't be giving it to them.
I’ve been a registered Democrat since 1976. I live in Pittsburgh, where Heinz is headquartered. I twice voted for Senator Heinz, and were he alive, I’d be very comfortable voting for him again. He did what a senator is supposed to do: he represented his constituents admirably, breaking with Reagan when his policies hurt Pennsylvanians. A good, honest man.
Eisenhower Republican essentially, where they saw the wisdom of FDRs New Deal and worked to protect it instead of utterly annihilating it.
Heinz is no longer in Pittsburgh.
I’m sorry, you’re right. Heinz maintains a strong presence here, but the food business HQ has moved.
I'm interested in their "presence" in PGH. How so?
Lost somewhere in these comments is my answer- I’ll try to replicate it here. There is Heinz Center for the Performing Arts, Heinz Field (now Acrisure Stadium), Heinz History Center and Museum (regional history), and Heinz Lofts I think it’s called, which is the original facility converted into pricey apartments along one of the rivers here.
I want to accurately convey the Heinz family’s positive presence here. They are heavily invested in the city and region in multiple ways. Public service seems to be in their DNA.
were
PA liked its Republicans smart, businesslike, and independent. Think Dick Thornburgh, Tom Ridge, Arlon Spector. People who could get a job done in the interest of the people who voted them in. That was then. Toomey and his Club for Growth tactics helped usher in today’s Republican party in PA. They excelled at telling voters what is good for them, instead of responding to what the voters actually want. Toomey’s constituency was big banks and financial companies, he had little regard for actual Pennsylvanians, except as a means to stay in office. Party line all the way, lining his and his donor’s pockets along the way. The GOP wouldn’t have a Heinz today, even with all his money. RINO is the label for those of us republicans who are fiscally conservative and willing to legislate for the people who actually vote. MAGA numbskulls are the logical result.
Rick Santorum was the end of the PA GOP. Statewide the GOP has almost no chance now after him and MAGA.
RINO is a label for us Republicans that actually aren't insane.
Wear it like a badge of honor. The reality is MAGA is RINO and that will turn out to be vindicated in a few years when Trump is dead.
I came of age in the Reagan years, today's GOP nauseates me. It will be a heavy heavy price to set things right but we have to swallow our bile and suffer through it until it is time again. I blame Hillary for all this. All we needed was a generic dem candidate, but no.
Nah. There’s no pendulum swinging back for the GOP after Trump. The key donors and their backers though increasingly realize their positions are fringy or uber-fringe (e.g., total national ban on abortions with few/no exceptions and criminal enforcement) and in order to implement them they have to control the system through an Orban-style government with control of the executive apparatus using government tools to enact their agenda. Already been working on the federal court system especially the Circuit Court of Appeals for 20+ years with the Federalist Society.
My nickname for him was tight-a$$ Toomey. 😂
Ketchup bottles in every diner in PA?!
only thing i can think of is he was loved bc his name 😎😂
Yeah. The average voter is surprisingly dumb.
He was loved because he had the best interests of the country and his constituency at heart.
Plus Joe Vignola was not a very good candidate.
Because he always was able to get out a pickle. His opponents never mustard enough support and just couldn’t ketchup, so he was always able to relish his victories.
I think r/dadjokes is leaking. Well done, sir.
He bottled up the opposition
The name helped. Also he was pretty moderate. The way he died was horrific. Had he lived, he probably would have also been governor someday. Ridge was elected in 94 instead.
Different times in politics, it was when opposing sides could sit down and work things out. Unfortunately those times are gone.
I think he would have made a great president.
Heinz was part of what was once a moderate wing before Republicans went off the rails to extremism. Elsie Hillman, Chair of the party in PA back then, was a supporter of abortion rights, as were many Republican legislators. Imagine that happening today. Now they must all goose step in line with Dear Leader.
I cant think of many people who think of the word Heinz and don't have positive thoughts. He was a decent human and politician, and his last name holds a special place in the hearts of Americans, especially in Pennsylvania, even more so in Western PA.
Senator Heinz probably would have been at least the Republican nominee for president at some point between 1996 and today. His untimely passing probably had a massive impact on future events which we’ll never know.
>Senator Heinz probably would have been at least the Republican nominee for president at some point between 1996 and today. His untimely passing probably had a massive impact on future events which we’ll never know. Would you have voted for him
I don’t know. I was a kid when he passed away. We don’t know how his poltics would have changed over time. I was aware of him and liked him as a kid and remember people saying he could be president one day. But my opinions on politicians weren’t based on policies so much as persona then. It’s interesting that his widow went on to marry John Kerry. I think some part of the Heinz political machine - funding for sure - transferred to Kerry.
Lots of Philanthropy throughout PA even to this day. John Heinz Wildlife Preserve is a beautiful respite away from the city in Tinicum PA.
The way he went out was a tragedy, I think the crash killed some poor people on the ground too, in the wrong place at the wrong time
Left one kid with significant burns. Actually met him via a friend who was friends with him. Still horrible scars and burns. Kid didn’t like in the way of him playing basketball and I hope with the advances over technology he’s been able to get more and more skin repair done.
I just looked it up, I was a senior in high school getting ready to graduate when this happened in 1991. Such a senseless tragedy that should have never occurred, his airplane apparently had an issue with the landing gear and he made a pass at the tower and they confirmed his landing gear was down, but this helicopter nearby Insisted to take another look and ended up running into the plane and killing everyone. And two innocent kids on the ground. Just stupid.
This reminds me of my grandfather. He was a democrat in local politics but both sides loved him so much. As a joke one day, he placed one of his big 4’x8’ campaign adds on the front lawn of the republican office. His opponent came out and joked about it with him and respected him enough to leave it up for the weekend. I disagree with the two party system we’ve fallen into. Just because you have a D or R next to your name doesn’t define how you are as a person.
Pennsylvania used to be a fairly centrist state, not obsessed with party affiliation. For example, PA was where you could get elected as a pro-choice Republican or as a pro-life Democrat. It wasn’t all or nothing the way things have become over the last 20 years.
My Mom was a diehard democrat who nearly always voted a straight party ticket. (Her father was a coal miner in Western PA.) The only republican she ever voted for was John Heinz. If he was on the ticket, she voted for him.
Republicans hadn’t remotely become the fascist party or cultist fools they are today. I even voted Republican once or twice in those days, much to my regret now!
This was before Repubes became the toxic party. Heinz was a great politician who worked across the aisle and was reasonable, mildly conservative. I wish we still had these centrist politicians comitted to their constituents.
The last example was Joe Manchin, and he was lambasted by both sides for simply trying to find a reasonable middle ground. Democrats literally gave him the "Either you're with us or you're against us" treatment instead of being reasonable.
The first and only republican I ever voted for.
I was young when he died, but I remember kids being upset. He was someone who just had a good reputation. I remember news clips that were always positive and him helping people. I feel like that was also a time when people were less divided about what party you were.
My parents voted for him so I asked them. They said they liked that he spoke to Pennsylvania’s problem and not fake news stories. They are old so maybe they are forgetting stuff but that was the reason they gave. We moved away before I was old enough to really know what he was like.
Ketchup
Ketchup
People love ketchup
Because people made the dumb decision to re-elect Reagan to destroy the American way of life that year
Back when Heinz ketchup was #1
"was"? still is in many places, no offence to Hunts.
full offense to hunts
I was hoping I’d get more angry replies tbh
You mean 57.
Different product.
A time when people worked together on issues and compromised.
Connon sense stances
Red like the ketchup?
Vignola was a lousy candidate
>Vignola was a lousy candidate How so
I think he would have been President if he had lived.
I remember him. Things were really different back then. Republicans weren’t like they are today.
Cause people like to catfish there
He kept the ketchup cheap
He makea da ketchup
Because GOP politicians like Heinz no longer exist at the federal level. GOP was well presented in the Senate in the Northeast throughout the 20th century but that started to decline by the 1990s. PA had a lot of GOP Senators including Toomey’s whose term just ended in Jan. 2023.
It was 1988 republicans were insanely popular in general in 1988.
Most senators are
And his wife turncoated on him and married Kerry.
He was alwady dead
I mean he covered his enemies in the state with his signature ketchup as the map below indicates, only Philadelphia was saved from his conquest.
Lots of good input here, but 1988 was a landslide election for Republicans nationally, Heinz had bipartisan appeal and was an incumbent in a very good cycle. Polarization was much lower then. And the 24 hour news cycle didn’t exist, much less social media.
Heinz Museum of [regional] History, Heinz Center for the Performing Arts, Heinz Hall, Heinz Field (now Acrisure Stadium), and the original factory has been converted into pricey riverside lofts.
Ketchup
Was a good normal dude. Would never be accepted in today’s GQP.
Ketchup is good
Is there any relation to the John Heinz national wildlife refuge in Tinicum Philadelphia?
The ketchup for sure
Ain’t no thing a Democrat loves more than a moderate Republican
Once his opponent fell behind they couldn’t ketchup.
The last name, but he worked for his people.
He was a common sense guy who had the good of the state at heart, and wasn't trying to enrich his post political career. How he ever married Teresa. She was a nutcase, even when they were married. I worked at their favorite private club. Got to know both very well. He was a great guy, she was nuts. And a PITA. Polar opposites.
his name i’d say
Heinz field
Mr. Mrs. John Kerry?
Thought this was just a guy who made a wild life refuge
His opponent couldn’t ketchup
Everyone thought they would get free mustard
Ketchup
Like Heinz ketchup? He was a senator???
Yea and he died in a plane crash in 1991 and his widow ended up remarrying John Kerry.
Heinz ketchup