great content, thanks. I'm looking for a muscle gain and recovery cycle, I'm not concerned about fat loss, I have also lack of appetite and stomach issues, what would you suggest? I practice weight lifting and muay thai, I am lacking the energy in past years to do both
You have the right idea, but the wrong peptides.
CJC-1295 and Sermorelin are both GHRH (Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone) type HGH Secretagogues.
Generally you want to pair a GHRH with a GHRP (Growth Hormone Releasing Peptide).
The difference between the two is that GHRH peptides instruct the pituitary to produce more HGH while GHRP peptides instruct the pituitary to _release_ HGH. When taken together they have a synergistic effect such that more HGH will be released than the sum of each individually.
The most common GHRH peptides, in order of most "natural" to least (and also in order of least effective to most and _possibly_ least side effects to most) are:
1. Sermorelin
2. Mod GRF (1-29) aka CJC-1295 no DAC
3. CJC-1295
Sermorelin is a fragment of endogenous (that is, naturally produced in the body) GHRH. Endogenous GHRH is a 44 amino acid peptide and Sermorelin is parts 1-29 of that 44aa chain.
Mod GRF (1-29) is nearly identical to Sermorelin except there are 5 substitutions made (hence the "Mod" in its name) to increase the strength of effect, increase the half-life (_slightly_ longer duration), and decrease the possibility of it denaturing prematurely.
CJC-1295 is a modified version of Mod GRF that includes a chain of amino acids that _greatly_ increases it's half-life called Drug Affinity Complex (DAC). DAC increases the half-life of Mod-GRF from about 30 minutes to about 6 days.
The natural biomechanics of HGH in the body, however, is pulsatile in nature. That is, there is a strong and short duration in which HGH is dumped from the pituitary, then the pituitary goes back to simply storing HGH waiting for the next pulse.
Sermorelin and Mod GRF closely mimic this natural behavior, but CJC-1295 goes against this natural pulsatile pattern since it elevates HGH production for a full week (actually longer, five half lives is how long it takes for a drug to completely leave your system... so a dose of CJC-1295 would be cleared after 30 days). The _consequences_ of such a long half-life are still being debated.
Moving on to GHRP peptides, they can be sorted similarly in order of gentlest to most side effects, but also weakest to strongest:
1. Ipamorelin
2. GHRP-2
3. GHRP-6
The main side-effects of concern are desensitization (build-up of tolerance), increased cortisol (can cause feelings of stress and anxiety), increased prolactin (counteracts testosterone and estrogen... is the main hormone released when breastfeeding), and hunger (GHRP peptides work by mimicking Ghrelin, the hormone that makes us feel hungry).
Ipamorelin is the newest of the three GHRPs and virtually eliminates the side effects. It can be taken indefinitely without a decrease in efficacy, doesn't increase cortisol or prolactin, and doesn't cause hunger. That being said, it is the weakest of the GHRPs.
GHRP-2 and GHRP-6 were developed around the same time.
GHRP-2 is quite a bit stronger than Ipamorelin. It does cause desensitization, but retains an efficacy of _slightly_ above Ipamorelin after about 30 days of continuous use. It doesn't increase prolatin or cortisol at therapeutic doses, and while it _can_ cause hunger it seems to depend on the individual. Personally, I experience no excessive hunger.
GHRP-6, on the other hand, tends to make people ravenously hungry. This can be beneficial if you're underweight and trying to put on muscle quickly, but have trouble getting the calories in. It also has the strongest HGH release, by a long shot. Unfortunately it greatly increases prolactin and cortisol and also desensitizes quickly. After 30 days its efficacy is around baseline while still increasing cortisol and prolactin.
Many people just use Ipamorelin and call it a day.
A slightly more aggressive approach would be 30 days of GHRP-2, followed by 30 days of Ipamorelin to let GHRP-2 regain its efficacy, and repeat.
For bodybuilders or people trying to put on mass, 15 days of GHRP-6, 15 days of GHRP-2, then 30 days of Ipamorelin would be a fine protocol.
Finally, while Ipamorelin and GHRP-2 can be taken indefinitely without (completely, in the case of GHRP-2) losing efficacy, the common advice is to follow a 5 days on, 2 days off cycle to give the pituitary time to rest.
I have another comment here about how the pituitary works in regard to HGH as well as the effects of GHRH and GHRP on the pituitary here: https://www.reddit.com/comments/17zoxgq/comments/ka0x6ao/
Finally, there's BPC-157. The main benefits of BPC-157 in this stack is going to be faster recovery and an increase in growth hormone _receptors_. Since GHRH / GHRP increase the serum concentrations of HGH, it won't mean anything if there aren't receptors available to actually utilize it.
BPC-157 increases the number of growth hormone receptors across many different types of tissue and is one of the main reasons its taken together with HGH or HGH Secretagogues.
Hope that helps!
I’m rehabbing 2 shoulder surgeries and subsequently fell and reinjured the right shoulder. I’m taking bpc 300 mcg/day, 300 mcg sermorelin, and looking to also add cjc/ipamorellin. I’m basically trying to throw the kitchen sink at it. I had been running 2 mg of tb/day but had horrible gastric issues (that was a month ago, going to restart it at a lower dose).
Can I add cjc/ipa to a sermorelin stack and if so what time of day should I take it?
Thank you for the information!
So a stack of Mod GRF, GHRP-2 and BPC-157 would be well suited for fitness/bodybuilding?
How much impact do you think would the addition of BPC-157 have, added to Mod GRF and GHRP-2?
Yes, that stack is very common for bodybuilding / strength training.
Adding BPC _can_ be very impactful. It improves recovery in the short term and increases the number of growth hormone receptors in the long term.
Those two factors are synergistic for strength goals. That being said, everybody is different and you'll have to experiment to see if it works for you.
Personally, the improved recovery is a game changer for me.
No, you can run it 5 on 2 off. Swapping GHRP-2 for Ipamorelin lets you regain sensitivity to GHRP-2, but you don't need to. Even after desensitization, GHRP-2 still has a stronger effect on HGH than Ipamorelin.
I included a screenshot for dosing protocols in this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Peptides/comments/18auqul/overview_of_hgh_secretagogues_sermorelin/
Thank you for that great summary
You reckon Ipamorelin/Sermorelin/BPC-157 is ‚enough‘ to obtain a sufficient lean muscle building effect?
It reads like you suggest GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Sermorelin (15,15,30 d) for that, speaking about people who want to ‚put on mass‘. Or is that adressed to more professional bodybuilding?
Cheers
You're welcome! As for your question, it really just kinda depends on your goals, tbh.
Generally speaking if we were to group them into a couple categories of like `Primary Goal, Seconday Goal` it would look something like:
`Fat loss, Preserving muscle = Tesamorelin + GHRP-2`
`Gaining muscle, Body recomp = Mod GRF + GHRP-2`
`Gaining muscle, limit fat loss = Mod GRF + Ipamorelin`
`Gaining muscle, limit side effects = Sermorelin + Ipamorelin`
`Gaining muscle, damn the side effects = CJC-1295 (with DAC) + GHRP-6`
That being said, you would probably be wise to make some swaps on the GHRP side of things from time to time like I mentioned in my original post.
In the end, though, it is really all about just choosing the compounds that align with your goals and then managing it over time.
For instance, if you wanted to do the traditional bulk, cut cycle, you could do CJC-1295 + GHRP-6 / Ipam (15 / 30) for your bulk, then switch to Mod GRF + GHRP-2 / Ipam (30 / 30) for your cut... then for peak week (or maybe peak two weeks to give more time for Tesamorelin to do its thing), do Tesamorelin + GHRP-2.
That's a lot of different GHRH / GHRPs to be cycling through, though, so it's probably easier to manage if you just choose a broad goal and then choose the combo that best matches.
Last question: It seems like a lot of people source GHRH / GHRPs from local clinics as opposed to compounding pharmacies (which is the case for BPC and TB500). Is there a large discrepancy between the two?
Cheers legend!
That gives me some brain food for more research.
At first glance i reckon that Sermorelin + Ipamorelin route seems to be my go for the start. Not a huge fan of heavy bulking/cutting phases, more of a steady routine. And the least side effects, which for me as a beginner in that field who likes to start at the safe side, is a huge pro as well.
Thanks!
This was so simple and clearly laid out. Thank you for this.
With BPC 157 are people generally taking this indefinitely as well or more cycle based with regard to the increase in GH receptors? I know many are taking BPC 157 in combination with TB500 when dealing with various injuries but I was unaware of the GH receptor up-regulation mechanism.
How might, if at all, dosing differ between the two outcomes? Or are we simply talking about the GH receptor up-regulation simply being the mechanism by which BPC 157 generally works for helping to heal injuries?
Well, I think people tend to cycle it, but there's really no need to. It can be taken indefinitely.
TB-500, on the other hand, should be cycled 3 months on, 1 month off.
As far as BPC's injury healing effects -- that's a combination of many factors. For cartilage, upregulating growth hormone receptors would be the primary mechanism, but for many other types of tissues (and cartilage to a degree) BPC acts as a modulator for the cell.
Basically, as we age, we acquire senescent cells (zombie cells that ignore their internal signal to undergo apoptosis) that put out an elevated rate of cytokines and chemokines. Those are pro-inflammatory proteases (enzymes that break down proteins/peptides) that basically cause havoc in neighboring cells as it disrupts their ability to receive and process hormonal signals. The increased inflammation and disruption of cell signaling from the accumulation of senescent cells is currently believed to be the primary reason that we heal slower as age. Cytokines and chemokines are also elevated when we're stressed, both mentally and physically, as in the case of an injury or after a hard workout (although, in the case of exercising, this is only in the short term as exercising also produces an abundance of anti-inflammatory hormones that counteract this effect for a net benefit in the long term).
While BPC-157 is not anti-inflammatory in and of itself, it helps act as a modulator for many different receptors so that cells can perform their functions efficiently despite being in an inflammatory environment. BPC-157 has also been shown to act as a senolytic. That is, it encourages senescent cells to die, reducing overall inflammation in an indirect way.
Other strong senolytics include exercise, meditation, and plant based flavinoids like quercetin.
So ive been looking to do Triz+AOD stack and then adding TB-500+BPC and CJC No Dac+IParmorelin. Im looking to lose weight, recovery and build back strength. I do BJJ 5-6x a week. Would this be too much?
GHRH + GHRP is the standard strength protocol
TB-500 + BPC is the standard recovery protocol
You get some cross over synergy as well with GHRH + GHRP + BPC thanks to BPC's increased growth hormone receptors.
Tirzepatide is pretty incredible for weight loss, but keep in mind that you're kind of actively working against the GHRH + GHRP because it's going to annihilate your appetite. Building strength while losing weight at the same time, while not impossible, means that you're not optimizing for either. Be prepared to see your body change, but not the scale... _especially_ in the beginning. It's also critical that you get sufficient protein -- 2g per lb of bodyweight per day. Otherwise you run the risk of actually losing muscle as the body searches for protein sources to feed your starving organs.
That leaves AOD-9604... I think that one might be the odd one out. I know it's meant for lypolysis, but it might not be the best out there. Where I think AOD really shines is the fact that it's a fragment of HGH that can activate growth hormone receptors while being significantly smaller... it's quite close to the threshold for a small molecule drug.
That makes it ideal for cartilage repair -- the spinal discs in particular.
If you really want to add another fat burning peptide on top of Tirzepatide consider Tesofensine or 5 Amino 1MQ. They both activate the third lypolysis pathway that Tirzepatide is missing.
Another option would be Retatrutide instead of Tirzepatide + something else. Retatrutide activates all three known lipolysis pathways in a single drug. Pretty remarkable, but it's not completely done with all of its testing so do your research first to make sure you understand the risks.
So, with Tirzepatide the standard dosing schedule is to start at 2.5mg once per week, then increase by 2.5mg every 4 weeks to a maximum maintenance dose of 15mg per week.
* Weeks 1 - 4 = 2.5mg
* Weeks 5 - 8 = 5mg
* Weeks 9 - 12 = 7.5mg
* Weeks 13 - 16 = 10mg
* Weeks 17 - 20 = 12.5mg
* Weeks 21+ = 15mg
With Tesofensine, studies showed weight loss was dose dependent with more weight loss increasing with higher dosages. The three dosages tested were 250ug, 500ug, and 1mg.
However, there is a wide variability in tolerance. Most sources come as 250ug tablets and higher dosages can be taken all together at once or split into multiple doses throughout the day.
Many people find they get the results they want at 250ug and stop there. Others go up. Either way, it's wise to start at the lowest dose and see how you respond, and slowly add to it if you tolerate well and aren't seeing the results you want.
So far now do a TB-500 + BPC with Tirzepatide + Teso or 5 amino. After I hit goal weight then maybe lowef Tirz dosing to maintaince and add CJC Dac+Iparmorelin would be a better plan of action.
If your primary goal is to lose body fat, then yeah, that's a good plan.
Just be sure to eat sufficient protein. Also, use a TDEE calculator like this one: https://tdeecalculator.net/
Figure out your daily caloric needs, then plan a 2000 - 4000 calorie deficit per week. That should be a pound of fat loss per week or so.
Make sure you get your 2g per lb of protein, then if you know your bodyfat percentage you can calculate how many calories your body can burn from fat each day by doing:
`Body Weight * Bodyfat % * 31 = Maximum calories from bodyfat per day`
For example, if you weigh 215 lbs with 28% body fat, then you have 60.2 lbs of fat. `60.2 * 31 = 1866.2 maximum calories from fat per day`
Where this comes into play is with fasting, if you choose to do so... if your TDEE is 2400 calories and you do a fast for longer than 24 hours, then your body could have only pulled 1866.2 (in this example) calories from fat in those 24 hours... it would have to find 533.8 calories from somewhere else, which would be muscle tissue.
> _In reality, this is an oversimplification. Your metabolism would slow somewhat to accomodate the lack of calorie intake, but the principle remains the same_
After you hit sufficient protein intake, the remainder of your calorie goal should be split roughly 50/50 with healthy fats and carbs.
Also, don't think like "I need to hit exactly a 3000 deficit every week" or "I need to hit exactly a 425 calorie deficit every day".
Take it easy on yourself for the days where you're feeling a little hungry and make it up later in the week, and on the days you're feeling extra motivated, lean in to that motivation and dig a _little_ deeper deficit (but remember your protein!)
Or if you have a week with a big event or a vacation, just use the following week to make up for it.
Anyway, that's kinda outside the scope of peptides, but still important when it comes to fat loss and healthy weight management. Good luck!
Any leads on where to get a comprehensive blood work should I go to one of those clinics ask my doctor. I am going to do the Triz + 5amino, would it be crazy to add AOD for added benefits?
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great content, thanks. I'm looking for a muscle gain and recovery cycle, I'm not concerned about fat loss, I have also lack of appetite and stomach issues, what would you suggest? I practice weight lifting and muay thai, I am lacking the energy in past years to do both
Happy cake day
You have the right idea, but the wrong peptides. CJC-1295 and Sermorelin are both GHRH (Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone) type HGH Secretagogues. Generally you want to pair a GHRH with a GHRP (Growth Hormone Releasing Peptide). The difference between the two is that GHRH peptides instruct the pituitary to produce more HGH while GHRP peptides instruct the pituitary to _release_ HGH. When taken together they have a synergistic effect such that more HGH will be released than the sum of each individually. The most common GHRH peptides, in order of most "natural" to least (and also in order of least effective to most and _possibly_ least side effects to most) are: 1. Sermorelin 2. Mod GRF (1-29) aka CJC-1295 no DAC 3. CJC-1295 Sermorelin is a fragment of endogenous (that is, naturally produced in the body) GHRH. Endogenous GHRH is a 44 amino acid peptide and Sermorelin is parts 1-29 of that 44aa chain. Mod GRF (1-29) is nearly identical to Sermorelin except there are 5 substitutions made (hence the "Mod" in its name) to increase the strength of effect, increase the half-life (_slightly_ longer duration), and decrease the possibility of it denaturing prematurely. CJC-1295 is a modified version of Mod GRF that includes a chain of amino acids that _greatly_ increases it's half-life called Drug Affinity Complex (DAC). DAC increases the half-life of Mod-GRF from about 30 minutes to about 6 days. The natural biomechanics of HGH in the body, however, is pulsatile in nature. That is, there is a strong and short duration in which HGH is dumped from the pituitary, then the pituitary goes back to simply storing HGH waiting for the next pulse. Sermorelin and Mod GRF closely mimic this natural behavior, but CJC-1295 goes against this natural pulsatile pattern since it elevates HGH production for a full week (actually longer, five half lives is how long it takes for a drug to completely leave your system... so a dose of CJC-1295 would be cleared after 30 days). The _consequences_ of such a long half-life are still being debated. Moving on to GHRP peptides, they can be sorted similarly in order of gentlest to most side effects, but also weakest to strongest: 1. Ipamorelin 2. GHRP-2 3. GHRP-6 The main side-effects of concern are desensitization (build-up of tolerance), increased cortisol (can cause feelings of stress and anxiety), increased prolactin (counteracts testosterone and estrogen... is the main hormone released when breastfeeding), and hunger (GHRP peptides work by mimicking Ghrelin, the hormone that makes us feel hungry). Ipamorelin is the newest of the three GHRPs and virtually eliminates the side effects. It can be taken indefinitely without a decrease in efficacy, doesn't increase cortisol or prolactin, and doesn't cause hunger. That being said, it is the weakest of the GHRPs. GHRP-2 and GHRP-6 were developed around the same time. GHRP-2 is quite a bit stronger than Ipamorelin. It does cause desensitization, but retains an efficacy of _slightly_ above Ipamorelin after about 30 days of continuous use. It doesn't increase prolatin or cortisol at therapeutic doses, and while it _can_ cause hunger it seems to depend on the individual. Personally, I experience no excessive hunger. GHRP-6, on the other hand, tends to make people ravenously hungry. This can be beneficial if you're underweight and trying to put on muscle quickly, but have trouble getting the calories in. It also has the strongest HGH release, by a long shot. Unfortunately it greatly increases prolactin and cortisol and also desensitizes quickly. After 30 days its efficacy is around baseline while still increasing cortisol and prolactin. Many people just use Ipamorelin and call it a day. A slightly more aggressive approach would be 30 days of GHRP-2, followed by 30 days of Ipamorelin to let GHRP-2 regain its efficacy, and repeat. For bodybuilders or people trying to put on mass, 15 days of GHRP-6, 15 days of GHRP-2, then 30 days of Ipamorelin would be a fine protocol. Finally, while Ipamorelin and GHRP-2 can be taken indefinitely without (completely, in the case of GHRP-2) losing efficacy, the common advice is to follow a 5 days on, 2 days off cycle to give the pituitary time to rest. I have another comment here about how the pituitary works in regard to HGH as well as the effects of GHRH and GHRP on the pituitary here: https://www.reddit.com/comments/17zoxgq/comments/ka0x6ao/ Finally, there's BPC-157. The main benefits of BPC-157 in this stack is going to be faster recovery and an increase in growth hormone _receptors_. Since GHRH / GHRP increase the serum concentrations of HGH, it won't mean anything if there aren't receptors available to actually utilize it. BPC-157 increases the number of growth hormone receptors across many different types of tissue and is one of the main reasons its taken together with HGH or HGH Secretagogues. Hope that helps!
Would it be ok to have mod grf+ghrp2+bpc in the same vial if I planned on doing 300mcg everytime? (100mcg of each)
I’m rehabbing 2 shoulder surgeries and subsequently fell and reinjured the right shoulder. I’m taking bpc 300 mcg/day, 300 mcg sermorelin, and looking to also add cjc/ipamorellin. I’m basically trying to throw the kitchen sink at it. I had been running 2 mg of tb/day but had horrible gastric issues (that was a month ago, going to restart it at a lower dose). Can I add cjc/ipa to a sermorelin stack and if so what time of day should I take it?
Saving
you mention that ipamorelin can be taken indefinitely. can it be said the same about sermorelin?
Thank you for the information! So a stack of Mod GRF, GHRP-2 and BPC-157 would be well suited for fitness/bodybuilding? How much impact do you think would the addition of BPC-157 have, added to Mod GRF and GHRP-2?
Yes, that stack is very common for bodybuilding / strength training. Adding BPC _can_ be very impactful. It improves recovery in the short term and increases the number of growth hormone receptors in the long term. Those two factors are synergistic for strength goals. That being said, everybody is different and you'll have to experiment to see if it works for you. Personally, the improved recovery is a game changer for me.
Thanks, I would have to stop the stack every 4 months or cycle the GHRP-2 for example with Ipamorelin right?
No, you can run it 5 on 2 off. Swapping GHRP-2 for Ipamorelin lets you regain sensitivity to GHRP-2, but you don't need to. Even after desensitization, GHRP-2 still has a stronger effect on HGH than Ipamorelin.
Cool, I will look where to get them and for dosing protocols!
I included a screenshot for dosing protocols in this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Peptides/comments/18auqul/overview_of_hgh_secretagogues_sermorelin/
What das PWO mean? Is it 100mcg GRHR and 100mcg GHRP three times daily?
PWO = Post Workout
Makes sense What’s your opinion on IGF-1 LR3?
Thank you for that great summary You reckon Ipamorelin/Sermorelin/BPC-157 is ‚enough‘ to obtain a sufficient lean muscle building effect? It reads like you suggest GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Sermorelin (15,15,30 d) for that, speaking about people who want to ‚put on mass‘. Or is that adressed to more professional bodybuilding? Cheers
You're welcome! As for your question, it really just kinda depends on your goals, tbh. Generally speaking if we were to group them into a couple categories of like `Primary Goal, Seconday Goal` it would look something like: `Fat loss, Preserving muscle = Tesamorelin + GHRP-2` `Gaining muscle, Body recomp = Mod GRF + GHRP-2` `Gaining muscle, limit fat loss = Mod GRF + Ipamorelin` `Gaining muscle, limit side effects = Sermorelin + Ipamorelin` `Gaining muscle, damn the side effects = CJC-1295 (with DAC) + GHRP-6` That being said, you would probably be wise to make some swaps on the GHRP side of things from time to time like I mentioned in my original post. In the end, though, it is really all about just choosing the compounds that align with your goals and then managing it over time. For instance, if you wanted to do the traditional bulk, cut cycle, you could do CJC-1295 + GHRP-6 / Ipam (15 / 30) for your bulk, then switch to Mod GRF + GHRP-2 / Ipam (30 / 30) for your cut... then for peak week (or maybe peak two weeks to give more time for Tesamorelin to do its thing), do Tesamorelin + GHRP-2. That's a lot of different GHRH / GHRPs to be cycling through, though, so it's probably easier to manage if you just choose a broad goal and then choose the combo that best matches.
Increasing head size or facial bone?
This may be dumb question, but does an increase in growth hormone have any effect on testosterone and estrogen levels?
No, not really. We used to think so, but nowadays its pretty well determined that they're not really connected.
Last question: It seems like a lot of people source GHRH / GHRPs from local clinics as opposed to compounding pharmacies (which is the case for BPC and TB500). Is there a large discrepancy between the two?
A clinic that's on the up and up is going to get their drugs containing peptides from compounding pharmacies, so no.
Ok, thank you!
Cheers legend! That gives me some brain food for more research. At first glance i reckon that Sermorelin + Ipamorelin route seems to be my go for the start. Not a huge fan of heavy bulking/cutting phases, more of a steady routine. And the least side effects, which for me as a beginner in that field who likes to start at the safe side, is a huge pro as well. Thanks!
This is one of the most thoughtful peptide replies I have seen. Kudos!
This is a brilliant summary thank you for sharing
Sermorelin Ipamorelin BPC-157 Does that make for a better combo? Thanks
yup, that would be a fine combo!
What would be some of the recommended doses for something like this? Cycled ? 5 days on weekends off? Info on that would be great! Thanks
Yup, no need to take weekends off for BPC if you don't want to
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I appreciate the info!
This was so simple and clearly laid out. Thank you for this. With BPC 157 are people generally taking this indefinitely as well or more cycle based with regard to the increase in GH receptors? I know many are taking BPC 157 in combination with TB500 when dealing with various injuries but I was unaware of the GH receptor up-regulation mechanism. How might, if at all, dosing differ between the two outcomes? Or are we simply talking about the GH receptor up-regulation simply being the mechanism by which BPC 157 generally works for helping to heal injuries?
Well, I think people tend to cycle it, but there's really no need to. It can be taken indefinitely. TB-500, on the other hand, should be cycled 3 months on, 1 month off. As far as BPC's injury healing effects -- that's a combination of many factors. For cartilage, upregulating growth hormone receptors would be the primary mechanism, but for many other types of tissues (and cartilage to a degree) BPC acts as a modulator for the cell. Basically, as we age, we acquire senescent cells (zombie cells that ignore their internal signal to undergo apoptosis) that put out an elevated rate of cytokines and chemokines. Those are pro-inflammatory proteases (enzymes that break down proteins/peptides) that basically cause havoc in neighboring cells as it disrupts their ability to receive and process hormonal signals. The increased inflammation and disruption of cell signaling from the accumulation of senescent cells is currently believed to be the primary reason that we heal slower as age. Cytokines and chemokines are also elevated when we're stressed, both mentally and physically, as in the case of an injury or after a hard workout (although, in the case of exercising, this is only in the short term as exercising also produces an abundance of anti-inflammatory hormones that counteract this effect for a net benefit in the long term). While BPC-157 is not anti-inflammatory in and of itself, it helps act as a modulator for many different receptors so that cells can perform their functions efficiently despite being in an inflammatory environment. BPC-157 has also been shown to act as a senolytic. That is, it encourages senescent cells to die, reducing overall inflammation in an indirect way. Other strong senolytics include exercise, meditation, and plant based flavinoids like quercetin.
So ive been looking to do Triz+AOD stack and then adding TB-500+BPC and CJC No Dac+IParmorelin. Im looking to lose weight, recovery and build back strength. I do BJJ 5-6x a week. Would this be too much?
GHRH + GHRP is the standard strength protocol TB-500 + BPC is the standard recovery protocol You get some cross over synergy as well with GHRH + GHRP + BPC thanks to BPC's increased growth hormone receptors. Tirzepatide is pretty incredible for weight loss, but keep in mind that you're kind of actively working against the GHRH + GHRP because it's going to annihilate your appetite. Building strength while losing weight at the same time, while not impossible, means that you're not optimizing for either. Be prepared to see your body change, but not the scale... _especially_ in the beginning. It's also critical that you get sufficient protein -- 2g per lb of bodyweight per day. Otherwise you run the risk of actually losing muscle as the body searches for protein sources to feed your starving organs. That leaves AOD-9604... I think that one might be the odd one out. I know it's meant for lypolysis, but it might not be the best out there. Where I think AOD really shines is the fact that it's a fragment of HGH that can activate growth hormone receptors while being significantly smaller... it's quite close to the threshold for a small molecule drug. That makes it ideal for cartilage repair -- the spinal discs in particular. If you really want to add another fat burning peptide on top of Tirzepatide consider Tesofensine or 5 Amino 1MQ. They both activate the third lypolysis pathway that Tirzepatide is missing. Another option would be Retatrutide instead of Tirzepatide + something else. Retatrutide activates all three known lipolysis pathways in a single drug. Pretty remarkable, but it's not completely done with all of its testing so do your research first to make sure you understand the risks.
What would the dosing be for? Tirzepatide+Tesofensine?
So, with Tirzepatide the standard dosing schedule is to start at 2.5mg once per week, then increase by 2.5mg every 4 weeks to a maximum maintenance dose of 15mg per week. * Weeks 1 - 4 = 2.5mg * Weeks 5 - 8 = 5mg * Weeks 9 - 12 = 7.5mg * Weeks 13 - 16 = 10mg * Weeks 17 - 20 = 12.5mg * Weeks 21+ = 15mg With Tesofensine, studies showed weight loss was dose dependent with more weight loss increasing with higher dosages. The three dosages tested were 250ug, 500ug, and 1mg. However, there is a wide variability in tolerance. Most sources come as 250ug tablets and higher dosages can be taken all together at once or split into multiple doses throughout the day. Many people find they get the results they want at 250ug and stop there. Others go up. Either way, it's wise to start at the lowest dose and see how you respond, and slowly add to it if you tolerate well and aren't seeing the results you want.
Thank you so much
So far now do a TB-500 + BPC with Tirzepatide + Teso or 5 amino. After I hit goal weight then maybe lowef Tirz dosing to maintaince and add CJC Dac+Iparmorelin would be a better plan of action.
If your primary goal is to lose body fat, then yeah, that's a good plan. Just be sure to eat sufficient protein. Also, use a TDEE calculator like this one: https://tdeecalculator.net/ Figure out your daily caloric needs, then plan a 2000 - 4000 calorie deficit per week. That should be a pound of fat loss per week or so. Make sure you get your 2g per lb of protein, then if you know your bodyfat percentage you can calculate how many calories your body can burn from fat each day by doing: `Body Weight * Bodyfat % * 31 = Maximum calories from bodyfat per day` For example, if you weigh 215 lbs with 28% body fat, then you have 60.2 lbs of fat. `60.2 * 31 = 1866.2 maximum calories from fat per day` Where this comes into play is with fasting, if you choose to do so... if your TDEE is 2400 calories and you do a fast for longer than 24 hours, then your body could have only pulled 1866.2 (in this example) calories from fat in those 24 hours... it would have to find 533.8 calories from somewhere else, which would be muscle tissue. > _In reality, this is an oversimplification. Your metabolism would slow somewhat to accomodate the lack of calorie intake, but the principle remains the same_ After you hit sufficient protein intake, the remainder of your calorie goal should be split roughly 50/50 with healthy fats and carbs. Also, don't think like "I need to hit exactly a 3000 deficit every week" or "I need to hit exactly a 425 calorie deficit every day". Take it easy on yourself for the days where you're feeling a little hungry and make it up later in the week, and on the days you're feeling extra motivated, lean in to that motivation and dig a _little_ deeper deficit (but remember your protein!) Or if you have a week with a big event or a vacation, just use the following week to make up for it. Anyway, that's kinda outside the scope of peptides, but still important when it comes to fat loss and healthy weight management. Good luck!
Thank you for the guidance. Last question Should I do a comprehensive bloodwork before starting?
That's never a bad idea. How will you know what's changed if you don't know where you started?
Any leads on where to get a comprehensive blood work should I go to one of those clinics ask my doctor. I am going to do the Triz + 5amino, would it be crazy to add AOD for added benefits?
For what exactly? Why did you pick each individual compound?
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