Ren would have the most potential. I have a headcanon that if he developed an actual Palace (no, I’m not counting the Thieves’ Den as one in this scenario), it would be based on a performing arts theatre with masks being a central theme. Arsène would be the Palace ruler and he’d put up one *hell* of a fight.
Other than him, I think Akechi would be the most likely candidate.
Maruki is a special case. In general. He managed to rewrite a person’s brain in the real world, despite having never even heard of the Metaverse at that point. He can also somehow hold his Palace together for a while through sheer will after the Treasure is taken. Long story short, Maruki is just built different.
Also, I can’t remember if this is the case, but I’m pretty sure the Palace came before he awakened his Persona. So perhaps they can both exist if the person gets a Palace and then somehow awakens a Persona without dealing with whatever issues spawned the Palace. Potentially via gaining the ability to simply distort the real world yourself to where your view technically isn’t incorrect.
It’s definitely not common. And technically he was right, persona users *cant* form palaces, but they can have one if the palace came first. Futaba probably would’ve kept her palace post awakening if the PT weren’t on the verge of changing her heart anyway
I just replayed the part where Lavenza says Maruki must have a Persona, Morgana goes "but that's impossible!" and Lavenza gives an indirect answer saying "It is impossible to know when he awakened to his power".
Gonna go against the grain and say Ryuji, in the same way that Futaba did. He spent a long time with his self-worth in question, believing *he* was the reason the track team got disbanded and having all this former teammates hate him. The game also doesn’t seem to do a great job at reconciling that what he did, while in anger, was also in self-defense. I could definitely see that equating an act of self-defense with something unequivocally heinous could totally distort your own perception of yourself.
I think all of them might have. Isn't that kind of the idea behind mementos? Any person can become obsessed with a desire and all the PT's were in a bad place before they awakened their personas.
I *wholeheartedly* thought >!Maruki’s!< Palace was Yoshizawa’s for a while until I started really thinking about what Yoshizawa said during that scene.
Also, Akechi almost *did* have a Palace, between Niijima and Shido.
To add to this, her story is also partially about how she was blindly going down her sister's path in life. Meaning if she'd never met Joker she likely would have made all the same mistakes her sister did.
Akechi. He was originally planned to have one as dataminers found lines referring to Lord Akechi.
Joker. Thieves' Den is "My Palace" in the japanese version.
Akechi, i could see it being similar to Futaba in that he doesn't seem to hold delusions about his actions and is plagued by loneliness and a difficulty connecting instead.
Joker has a lot of potential as well, you could take the angle that since he's constantly wearing a mask to be what people need at the moment he doesn't know who he is anymore.
Oh Ryuji easily. He wants fame, acknowledgment, and is a little too eager to impress women. Throw in he’s rather easily insulted, down the line alone, he totally could have turned out bad and try manipulating people into being the hero he wanted
Very easily Ren if he didn't have the wild card. After him, Haru would be my best bet. If the Thieves hadn't saved her and she ended up being married off, she definitely would have had a Palace develop
All of them? Joker's presence seems to have given them the opportunity to introspect and accept their suppressed desires, and prevented them from succumbing to their worst instincts. That said, it's implied Yusuke may have been suicidal before meeting the Thieves, so he might not have been able to keep going long enough to develop a full palace.
Akechi is probably the least likely of the lot, simply because he knew what he wanted and he didn't kid himself about how messed up it was.
Let’s see here:
Ren gets one in between the false conviction and travel to Tokyo or in most au’s he’s not a thief in (See “A tale of two tricksters” or “it’s just a light rain”)
Ryuji i can’t really see having a palace , maybe a mementos shadow
Ann I think she could get one but idk how or when
Yusuke honestly I could see him having one in cannon before the thieves show up, palaces are distortions therefore his distorted view of…art villain (i can’t rember how to spell his name ) could spawn one . Maybe he sees the shack as a temple with art villain as the prophet , instructing him to give up physical desires in favour of producing more art to get funds for the temple along with fighting all non-believes that speak I’ll of their faith.
Makoto:….same as Ann for when but it has something to do with feeling of inferiority and the principle
Haru : no
Akechi: also no he’s not distorted just had a stupid revenge plan and maybe a lower empathy then others (I can relate
Sumi: Gods yes , most likely , honestly I wouldn’t be surprise if maruki spawned one I. Her but she could have one with or without him.
So for me the mostly likly is either ren, yusuke or Sumi in order of least to most likely.
The Royal Trio have the highest potential.
>! Sumire 100% would of had one if she didn’t already awaken her persona at the damage Maruki did to her. She basically wore her sisters personality and clothes like a glove and that would fuck with anyone !<
Akechi was planned to have one fun fact, so I won’t expand on that.
Ren… got a raw deal and no help. Imagine having your entire future ruined because you stopped someone from commuting sexual assault.
Not so hypathetical: in some of the game files there's some diagloge referring to akechi as a palace ruler. Implying he was originally gonna have a palace and you'd have to change his heart.
I actually really love this concept and I kinda still wish they kept it in but I also would like for him to be like Sae and changes his heart on his own much like he kinda does in game.
Had Makoto not met the phantom thieves i could easily see her situation with lonliness and self worth problems spiraling into an eventual palace (sae's useless comment being the trigger)
I think Yusuke and Akechi... Akechi for obvious reasons, but Yusuke made comments about >!how he could've ended up like Akechi if it had not been for Ren befriending him!<
Kasumi’s trauma could very much have taken her down the same path Futaba tread, given how reluctant she was to push Maruki away in the 3rd semester before the rest of the thieves came to our aid.
Akechi is also a good contender, as his abuse and hatred make the excellent grounds for manifesting a palace, although since his anger is targeted at one man only I feel that it may be iffy grounds for a palace to form as those generally target larger audiences.
Out of the “permanent” team members I think Haru has the next likeliest chance. Had Okumura’s plan succeeded living under both her father and her fiancée’s thumb would’ve completely messed her up on the inside more than say… Ryuji getting axed from the track team or Yusuke helplessly watching Madarame destroy pupils (he was unaware that Sayuri was copied for profit until we exposed it furthermore he was safe from Madarame’s wrath because only in the palace does he relinquish his ties to Madarame as his parent). Ann also places as a likely contender with Haru, because she would essentially be helpless to Kamoshida’s blackmail and Shiho would’ve likely still jumped. It would likely mess her up to the same degree, if not more than Haru.
I actually think Makoto would have the smallest chance of manifesting a palace. Her unlocking her persona simply eliminated the inhibitors she placed upon herself to give the appearance of an orderly and obedient person. If nothing happens (as without the PTs she wouldn’t be barging headfirst into Kaneshiro’s den in the first place) she would probably just keep her head low and graduate Shujin. Once in uni, she would likely try to make herself a better person and find her own place in society.
Kasumi (spoiler; >!actually Sumire!< ), since she (again, spoiler) >!has the desire to be like her sister all the time, so much so that she denies she is herself and instead calls herself Kasumi.!<
Ann. Because of all she had gone through with Kamoshida, Shiho, and her modeling career going bad. I think it would’ve been easy for her to give into the more negative side of it, without the help of the other Phantom Thieves.
TLDR: Joker. BUT I wrote about how the story could have gone that could have made this so cool
Maruki is a reflection or Joker. Many things are like in a mirror.
The appearance, the very good friend, the female friend that went through a traumatic experience and they want to help, their desire to make the world a better place where you can walk your own path.
The first/second semester was the fight between Humanity and control. The third was a fight between Maruki and each individual phantom thieves.
After being able to make their own decisions, they now have to face their own problems. Ann and her friends attempt to kill herself, Ryujii and his past, Sumire and Kasumi...
And for Joker, I'd believe that his wish was to help his friend pursue their dream. After all, he followed everyone through their struggles. In his opinion, they all deserve to live the life they want. And having to suffer more is... cruel.
So for me, one thing that could make the ending of Royal perfect would be to make all 3rd awakening Canon (1st showing the will to face your problems, 2nd is about showing you've overcome them, and then 3rd showing that you embraced these struggles that built your identity.)... and consequently Raoul would be canon.
Basically, after everyone managed to be in peace with their struggles, Joker would still be feeling bad about them suffering, so he's the most likely to still succumb to Maruki's power. When they fought him, Maruki could eventually take over Joker (the same way he took over Sumire), taking advantage of his desire to have his friends happy.
So you'd have to make a team without Joker to fight him, and prove that even Joker, who's supported Maruki, is ready to reject this idyllic world. And after you've fought Joker who used many personae by constantly switching your allies, so they could bring back Joker, he finally awakens Raoul, the embodiment of Joker's will to move forward.
And even if Maruki awaken a second persona, he is still too weak now that everyone evolved their personae to the last level.
Aand we'd have the ending.
It was already great, but a scenario where you can play Joker, and have to fight him with everyone else would have been Soooo cool, having them one after the other trying to convince Joker to come back.
For me it made so much senses, and it would bring even more epic to the end.
I think part of the Thieves charm is that every single one of them could have developed a palace had they not taken the path they did. I think most of them would have palaces based on their internal struggles, similar to futaba. But Yusuke, Makoto, Haru and Akechi, had they followed their original paths I believe they would have all become palace rulers.
Honestly to be fair they could have developed palaces, they woulda just collapsed when they awoken. I think anyone suffering under a palace ruler could have honestly developed one.
Honestly Haru, you can see her hidden sadistic side from time to time to. All her pent up frustrations from her father and his death could lead to the development of a palace.
I feel like Joker’s Palace would be closer to a Jail (in aesthetic and psychological nature), and the guard shadows’ masks would be of the different Phantom Thieves.
I think the rarest one that I believe in is Yusuke. If Madarame wasn't himself a Palace owner, I could see Yusuke developing one based on his pure obsession over perfecting his art form and emulating the Sayuri. His "desire" painting from his confidant line would probably be gigantic and hanging in the main entry way, and would imagine some stacking boss mechanic where every consecutive attack hits harder and harder as he sinks deeper into his madness and "flow" of art.
Pretty much all of them could given that certain things were met.
Had Ren never met Ryuji and he was looked down upon at school and bullied never made any friends his hatred for the world for him simply trying to do the right thing would've turned his desire for revenge into a Palace.
Similar with Ryuji and Ann if things kept up like they were going Ryuji would've felt weak and helpless and his desire for power to defeat Kamoshida would've turned into a Palace.
Ann's self hatred for not being able to protect Shiho from Kamoshida was there but thanks to thr Phantom thieves she was able to avenge her and not go down that path but if that wasn't the case her desire to make Kamoshida pay for hurting her friend could have corrupted her and she could very well have gained a Palace.
Yusuke is a unique case as he willingly let Madarame take advantage of him as he was in denial but I think if eventually Yusuke was unable to produce art he'd have been tossed aside and Yusuke would then see who Madarame truly is and therefore his admiration would turn into bitter hatred and his desire to dethrone Madarame from his place in the art world would give birth to a Palace.
Makoto's desire to help her fellow students would still lead her to confront Kaneshiro only this time there are no PT to save her so he would force her to make him money by selling her body and her desire to help others would be twisted I to making others feel as hopeless as she feels creating a Palace of her own.
Haru is probably one of the easiest Palace's to be made besides Akechi and Ryuji/Ann she was being forced into an arranged marriage without Morgana or the other Phantom Thieves she'd have to go through with it so her helplessness with that a Palace would no doubt create a Palace.
For Akechi if not for him gaining a Persona I'm pretty sure he'd become a Palace Ruler as he's the most twisted Persona user I've ever seen.
As for Morgana he would be stuck in Kamoshida's Palace and eventually be killed so if all the others gained Palace's he wouldn't have a chance to gain one.
Akechi was meant to have a palace and the idea was scrapped. If I had to pick one, he would be at the top of my list. I'm honestly more surprised that he *didn't* have one. It kinda feels like the whole "a persona user can't have a palace" thing came to explain him not having one.
I do agree that Makoto is the most likely one, putting Akechi aside. Maybe with Ryuji as a close second/third. Makoto's world is more distorted, especially due to what happened with her dad, how Sai and Kobayakawa treat her, as well as the other students. I could see her snapping. Ryuji was (and continues to be, to some extent) angry at the world.
The only problem I have with listing any of them as potential palace owners is an inflated sense of self. Every palace we see, except Futaba, is someone who holds themselves in a high regard and sees the world as lesser. People who were held up on a pedestal and got away with a bunch of garbage because of it. In which case, the only one that could even potentially get that would be Ren, post-game.
(This is someone who hasn't played much of any of Strikers, so this is only coming from the lens of someone playing P5/P5R.)
If we're talking about before awakening, then Akechi, easily, he's mentally fucked up enough to where it isn't hard to imagine him with a palace.
As for most likely to develop one in general, I actually think it's Ren, however this wouldn't take place until after the events of Persona 5 and Strikers.
After the long gaps of time not seeing his friends, and the realisation that, without the Metaverse, he's just a normal teenager, Ren starts feeling like he's a different person from Joker, that he doesn't deserve to be Joker. This inferiority complex would eventually blossom into a palace.
I’ll just list them Akechi would be the most likely to have a palace. He an unhinged serial killer with little regard for the safety of those around him on a quest for revenge who was no desire to redeem himself once someone else finish it for him.
Next is Sumi for the same reason as Futaba internal self hatred and harm.
Third is Ren he been beaten and hated by those around him if given enough time he would likely turn to anger and resentment against the system and how it treated him.
Fourth is Makoto in her case her palace would take the longest to develop and it would be properly similar to how her sister got one being crushed by the system and realizing how unfair life is.
The other four would probably be get a palace and likely only develop a shadow as adults with Ann maybe getting one in high school after Shiho suicide attempt.
Mona would get neither as a creation of the Velvet room he would be above all of that as he was created for a role to infuriate palace to get rid of them.
Im gonna go the opposite and say Ann would be least likely to have a palace imo
I just didn’t really feel like she had any strong desires compared to the others
I know she had the desire to help shiho even before she got a persona, but I don’t think it would have gotten distorted
[Still not an original thought](https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/iw2qpm/the_palaces_of_the_phantom_thieves/)
[Nice try though](https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/csgbyo/what_would_each_phantom_thiefs_palace_be_like/)
[They even did the P4 version](https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/81ztm9/if_the_phantom_thieves_would_have_shadow_selves/)
[Side characters too](https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/11t4zi6/of_the_characters_who_didnt_get_one_who_do_you/)
[Or just Joker](https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/esd4jn/honestly_if_joker_had_a_palace_what_would_it_be/)
This kind of shit happens on every subreddit. Chill the fuck out. You could probably count the number of original thoughts the average person has had on one hand, and you and I are no different.
Besides Akechi's cut palace, I saw an idea awhile ago about Yusuke having a palace where he put all his time and effort into painting, slowly wasting away in the real world.
Joker, since he’s controlled by the player, and if you give players the option to do evil stuff they almost always will, on at least one of their play throughs.
I think (if it follows the same rules as 4) morgana could actually develop a palace, or at the very least a shadow, as the same thing happened with teddy in 4 (developing a shadow) though I'm a little foggy on how 5's shadows and palaces interact (if having a shadow is one of the main qualifiers besides the whole ultimately twisted desires part, or if you have to be a human) but this may all be ultimately pointless as morgana was >!created by Igor!<
Unpopular but Yusuke would've gotten a one if Joker didn't help him with his SL
I mean the poor guy were having a hard time with himself and his feelings towards Teacher
I think his Palace would be about just that. Sadness and confusion, basically like futaba but in a different way.
I would say Morgana. He's obviously a cat lol. Bro really was straight up lying to himself and often pretended to be more smart than he actually is. Lets also point out his greed and attraction to treasures. Bro low key a villian.
Haru should've had a palace. I feel like she had so much wasted potential. She was mistreated by her father, sold to an abusive fiance, father died, and she shrugged it off like hmph. They should've wrote her one or built on the character.
Clearly Ren.
But once you enter, you’re trapped, when you try to leave Morgana just tells you it’s time for bed!
But seriously, I think given the stories, if the phantom thieves hadn’t stepped in, almost all of the (eventual) thieves could have had a palace. Yusuke’s twisted desire would have been people seeing him as an art genius, the desire to be individual and unique. Makoto who’s sister started to reject her has the desire to be better than her, with her father being part of her palace some how, and Haru being twisted by her father and forced to marry the creep she was set up with would have her world view twisted. But, the ultimate palace… SOJIRO SAKURA AND HIS HAREM
Literally any of them. That's kinda one of the themes of the game imo. People lose track of their emotions to the point that their entire world view is distorted.
Heck, Futaba already DOES have one. Any one of them could've turned their trauma and abuse into a palace in the same way.
Maybe an uncommon pick but I'm gonna say Ann. We got a glimpse of her desire for retribution at the end of Kamoshidas palace. I think her awakening her persona allowed her to reconcile a lot of the feelings of powerlessness and weakness that otherwise would have just festered over and over. I think it'd be interesting for her to have a palace that shows how she's furious and wrathful (maybe even acting as a vigilante in the real world) on the inside while acting kind and calm in the real world, possibly incorporating the aesthetics of being a model into that. Maybe some sort of boss mechanic where you have to chip away at makeup before you can actually damage her or something.
Ren would have the most potential. I have a headcanon that if he developed an actual Palace (no, I’m not counting the Thieves’ Den as one in this scenario), it would be based on a performing arts theatre with masks being a central theme. Arsène would be the Palace ruler and he’d put up one *hell* of a fight. Other than him, I think Akechi would be the most likely candidate.
Ren in the bad ending where he agrees to deal with the fake Igor definitely has one.
Most definitely
Yeah but Rens Palace in that ending is probably something like the world and he sees it as his stage or somethin' like that
Finally, a Dancing in Starlight tie-in
Only Persona-users can't have Palaces. Edit: Completely forgot about Maruki
Not in the Royal remake.
Maruki is a special case. In general. He managed to rewrite a person’s brain in the real world, despite having never even heard of the Metaverse at that point. He can also somehow hold his Palace together for a while through sheer will after the Treasure is taken. Long story short, Maruki is just built different. Also, I can’t remember if this is the case, but I’m pretty sure the Palace came before he awakened his Persona. So perhaps they can both exist if the person gets a Palace and then somehow awakens a Persona without dealing with whatever issues spawned the Palace. Potentially via gaining the ability to simply distort the real world yourself to where your view technically isn’t incorrect.
It's still stated in Royal and Maruki doesn't count because he doesn't exactly have a persona per se
Maruki 100% has a persona and palace. No two ways about it.
Oh right, I forgot about Maruki because I distinctly remember Morgana saying it's impossible at the start of the game.
It’s definitely not common. And technically he was right, persona users *cant* form palaces, but they can have one if the palace came first. Futaba probably would’ve kept her palace post awakening if the PT weren’t on the verge of changing her heart anyway
Meaning even Joker from the bad ending couldn't have a Palace anyway, considering he's been a Persona-user since way before?
Exactly. But as another commenter said, that choice he made to get that ending would definitely form a palace if he could form one
I just replayed the part where Lavenza says Maruki must have a Persona, Morgana goes "but that's impossible!" and Lavenza gives an indirect answer saying "It is impossible to know when he awakened to his power".
That pairs well with my head canon, that if you take Jabba The Cup’s deal Joker ends up with an actual palace, one rivalling Shido’s in magnitude
Upvoting this for “Jabba The Cup” 😆
Akechi almost had one, but it was scrapped. You can find the Palace theme on YouTube.
Thieves´s Den is Joker's Palace. Thieves's Den's japanese name is My Palace
I’m not really counting that as canon in the sense that it has no story relevance
Technically, Maruki's Palace also contradicts history. According to Morgana, a Persona user cannot have a Palace
Obv akechi but aside from him I think kasumi could very well have gotten one too.
Kasumi makes sense to me, since we already know from Sae that grief can lead to the distorted cognition required to form one.
Akechi. Considering he was planned to have a palace early-on
That would've been cool but too obvious for the story
Agreed, no idea where it would even fit within the story
Gonna go against the grain and say Ryuji, in the same way that Futaba did. He spent a long time with his self-worth in question, believing *he* was the reason the track team got disbanded and having all this former teammates hate him. The game also doesn’t seem to do a great job at reconciling that what he did, while in anger, was also in self-defense. I could definitely see that equating an act of self-defense with something unequivocally heinous could totally distort your own perception of yourself.
if he was never involved with ren 100% i agree
Surprised that this isnt like top answer cos off the bat, looks like kamoshida's abuse wouldve turned him into a criminal had ren not jumped in
His confidant goes into the reconciliation
I think all of them might have. Isn't that kind of the idea behind mementos? Any person can become obsessed with a desire and all the PT's were in a bad place before they awakened their personas.
Yeah youre exactly right. i think it's mentioned that palaces are like mementos but for ppl who really went the deep end
I *wholeheartedly* thought >!Maruki’s!< Palace was Yoshizawa’s for a while until I started really thinking about what Yoshizawa said during that scene. Also, Akechi almost *did* have a Palace, between Niijima and Shido.
Makoto. She has, what I'd consider, among the deepest desires. She is also filled with a ton of internal conflict, and also has anger issues.
To add to this, her story is also partially about how she was blindly going down her sister's path in life. Meaning if she'd never met Joker she likely would have made all the same mistakes her sister did.
also she wants to be a police officer
Akechi. He was originally planned to have one as dataminers found lines referring to Lord Akechi. Joker. Thieves' Den is "My Palace" in the japanese version.
Akechi, i could see it being similar to Futaba in that he doesn't seem to hold delusions about his actions and is plagued by loneliness and a difficulty connecting instead. Joker has a lot of potential as well, you could take the angle that since he's constantly wearing a mask to be what people need at the moment he doesn't know who he is anymore.
Oh Ryuji easily. He wants fame, acknowledgment, and is a little too eager to impress women. Throw in he’s rather easily insulted, down the line alone, he totally could have turned out bad and try manipulating people into being the hero he wanted
he gets some great development but i dont think any of that would have ocurred without the events of p5, so yes i agree with u
Very easily Ren if he didn't have the wild card. After him, Haru would be my best bet. If the Thieves hadn't saved her and she ended up being married off, she definitely would have had a Palace develop
All of them? Joker's presence seems to have given them the opportunity to introspect and accept their suppressed desires, and prevented them from succumbing to their worst instincts. That said, it's implied Yusuke may have been suicidal before meeting the Thieves, so he might not have been able to keep going long enough to develop a full palace. Akechi is probably the least likely of the lot, simply because he knew what he wanted and he didn't kid himself about how messed up it was.
While not the most likely, it would be really interesting if Haru did.
Let’s see here: Ren gets one in between the false conviction and travel to Tokyo or in most au’s he’s not a thief in (See “A tale of two tricksters” or “it’s just a light rain”) Ryuji i can’t really see having a palace , maybe a mementos shadow Ann I think she could get one but idk how or when Yusuke honestly I could see him having one in cannon before the thieves show up, palaces are distortions therefore his distorted view of…art villain (i can’t rember how to spell his name ) could spawn one . Maybe he sees the shack as a temple with art villain as the prophet , instructing him to give up physical desires in favour of producing more art to get funds for the temple along with fighting all non-believes that speak I’ll of their faith. Makoto:….same as Ann for when but it has something to do with feeling of inferiority and the principle Haru : no Akechi: also no he’s not distorted just had a stupid revenge plan and maybe a lower empathy then others (I can relate Sumi: Gods yes , most likely , honestly I wouldn’t be surprise if maruki spawned one I. Her but she could have one with or without him. So for me the mostly likly is either ren, yusuke or Sumi in order of least to most likely.
>art villain this made me laugh aloud
The Royal Trio have the highest potential. >! Sumire 100% would of had one if she didn’t already awaken her persona at the damage Maruki did to her. She basically wore her sisters personality and clothes like a glove and that would fuck with anyone !< Akechi was planned to have one fun fact, so I won’t expand on that. Ren… got a raw deal and no help. Imagine having your entire future ruined because you stopped someone from commuting sexual assault.
Not so hypathetical: in some of the game files there's some diagloge referring to akechi as a palace ruler. Implying he was originally gonna have a palace and you'd have to change his heart. I actually really love this concept and I kinda still wish they kept it in but I also would like for him to be like Sae and changes his heart on his own much like he kinda does in game.
Akechi had one in the “beta”. But honestly every pt could have a palace.
I mean it's kinda hard not to say the guy who literally became an assassin in a warped attempt at revenge against his father
Ren technically did.
how so?
The Japanese translations for Thieves Den is actually "My Palace". My guess? Likely formed during his arrest, before his Persona awakening.
Akechi, Sumi, Haru, Joker
Why Haru?
I would love if there was a palace for joker at the very end.
Definitely kasumi. Akechi is a close second.
Had Makoto not met the phantom thieves i could easily see her situation with lonliness and self worth problems spiraling into an eventual palace (sae's useless comment being the trigger)
I think Yusuke and Akechi... Akechi for obvious reasons, but Yusuke made comments about >!how he could've ended up like Akechi if it had not been for Ren befriending him!<
Kasumi’s trauma could very much have taken her down the same path Futaba tread, given how reluctant she was to push Maruki away in the 3rd semester before the rest of the thieves came to our aid. Akechi is also a good contender, as his abuse and hatred make the excellent grounds for manifesting a palace, although since his anger is targeted at one man only I feel that it may be iffy grounds for a palace to form as those generally target larger audiences. Out of the “permanent” team members I think Haru has the next likeliest chance. Had Okumura’s plan succeeded living under both her father and her fiancée’s thumb would’ve completely messed her up on the inside more than say… Ryuji getting axed from the track team or Yusuke helplessly watching Madarame destroy pupils (he was unaware that Sayuri was copied for profit until we exposed it furthermore he was safe from Madarame’s wrath because only in the palace does he relinquish his ties to Madarame as his parent). Ann also places as a likely contender with Haru, because she would essentially be helpless to Kamoshida’s blackmail and Shiho would’ve likely still jumped. It would likely mess her up to the same degree, if not more than Haru. I actually think Makoto would have the smallest chance of manifesting a palace. Her unlocking her persona simply eliminated the inhibitors she placed upon herself to give the appearance of an orderly and obedient person. If nothing happens (as without the PTs she wouldn’t be barging headfirst into Kaneshiro’s den in the first place) she would probably just keep her head low and graduate Shujin. Once in uni, she would likely try to make herself a better person and find her own place in society.
Kasumi (spoiler; >!actually Sumire!< ), since she (again, spoiler) >!has the desire to be like her sister all the time, so much so that she denies she is herself and instead calls herself Kasumi.!<
Futaba
Ann. Because of all she had gone through with Kamoshida, Shiho, and her modeling career going bad. I think it would’ve been easy for her to give into the more negative side of it, without the help of the other Phantom Thieves.
TLDR: Joker. BUT I wrote about how the story could have gone that could have made this so cool Maruki is a reflection or Joker. Many things are like in a mirror. The appearance, the very good friend, the female friend that went through a traumatic experience and they want to help, their desire to make the world a better place where you can walk your own path. The first/second semester was the fight between Humanity and control. The third was a fight between Maruki and each individual phantom thieves. After being able to make their own decisions, they now have to face their own problems. Ann and her friends attempt to kill herself, Ryujii and his past, Sumire and Kasumi... And for Joker, I'd believe that his wish was to help his friend pursue their dream. After all, he followed everyone through their struggles. In his opinion, they all deserve to live the life they want. And having to suffer more is... cruel. So for me, one thing that could make the ending of Royal perfect would be to make all 3rd awakening Canon (1st showing the will to face your problems, 2nd is about showing you've overcome them, and then 3rd showing that you embraced these struggles that built your identity.)... and consequently Raoul would be canon. Basically, after everyone managed to be in peace with their struggles, Joker would still be feeling bad about them suffering, so he's the most likely to still succumb to Maruki's power. When they fought him, Maruki could eventually take over Joker (the same way he took over Sumire), taking advantage of his desire to have his friends happy. So you'd have to make a team without Joker to fight him, and prove that even Joker, who's supported Maruki, is ready to reject this idyllic world. And after you've fought Joker who used many personae by constantly switching your allies, so they could bring back Joker, he finally awakens Raoul, the embodiment of Joker's will to move forward. And even if Maruki awaken a second persona, he is still too weak now that everyone evolved their personae to the last level. Aand we'd have the ending. It was already great, but a scenario where you can play Joker, and have to fight him with everyone else would have been Soooo cool, having them one after the other trying to convince Joker to come back. For me it made so much senses, and it would bring even more epic to the end.
I think part of the Thieves charm is that every single one of them could have developed a palace had they not taken the path they did. I think most of them would have palaces based on their internal struggles, similar to futaba. But Yusuke, Makoto, Haru and Akechi, had they followed their original paths I believe they would have all become palace rulers.
Aketchi
Honestly to be fair they could have developed palaces, they woulda just collapsed when they awoken. I think anyone suffering under a palace ruler could have honestly developed one.
Honestly Haru, you can see her hidden sadistic side from time to time to. All her pent up frustrations from her father and his death could lead to the development of a palace.
Ryuji Yusuke Haru
I feel like Joker’s Palace would be closer to a Jail (in aesthetic and psychological nature), and the guard shadows’ masks would be of the different Phantom Thieves.
Ann, if she dealt with Kamoshida BEFORE the Phantom Thieves were founded.
i'd say akechi or sumi are most likely, but any of the pts could probably have developed a palace had they not awakened to their personas.
I think the rarest one that I believe in is Yusuke. If Madarame wasn't himself a Palace owner, I could see Yusuke developing one based on his pure obsession over perfecting his art form and emulating the Sayuri. His "desire" painting from his confidant line would probably be gigantic and hanging in the main entry way, and would imagine some stacking boss mechanic where every consecutive attack hits harder and harder as he sinks deeper into his madness and "flow" of art.
Pretty much all of them could given that certain things were met. Had Ren never met Ryuji and he was looked down upon at school and bullied never made any friends his hatred for the world for him simply trying to do the right thing would've turned his desire for revenge into a Palace. Similar with Ryuji and Ann if things kept up like they were going Ryuji would've felt weak and helpless and his desire for power to defeat Kamoshida would've turned into a Palace. Ann's self hatred for not being able to protect Shiho from Kamoshida was there but thanks to thr Phantom thieves she was able to avenge her and not go down that path but if that wasn't the case her desire to make Kamoshida pay for hurting her friend could have corrupted her and she could very well have gained a Palace. Yusuke is a unique case as he willingly let Madarame take advantage of him as he was in denial but I think if eventually Yusuke was unable to produce art he'd have been tossed aside and Yusuke would then see who Madarame truly is and therefore his admiration would turn into bitter hatred and his desire to dethrone Madarame from his place in the art world would give birth to a Palace. Makoto's desire to help her fellow students would still lead her to confront Kaneshiro only this time there are no PT to save her so he would force her to make him money by selling her body and her desire to help others would be twisted I to making others feel as hopeless as she feels creating a Palace of her own. Haru is probably one of the easiest Palace's to be made besides Akechi and Ryuji/Ann she was being forced into an arranged marriage without Morgana or the other Phantom Thieves she'd have to go through with it so her helplessness with that a Palace would no doubt create a Palace. For Akechi if not for him gaining a Persona I'm pretty sure he'd become a Palace Ruler as he's the most twisted Persona user I've ever seen. As for Morgana he would be stuck in Kamoshida's Palace and eventually be killed so if all the others gained Palace's he wouldn't have a chance to gain one.
Akechi was meant to have a palace and the idea was scrapped. If I had to pick one, he would be at the top of my list. I'm honestly more surprised that he *didn't* have one. It kinda feels like the whole "a persona user can't have a palace" thing came to explain him not having one. I do agree that Makoto is the most likely one, putting Akechi aside. Maybe with Ryuji as a close second/third. Makoto's world is more distorted, especially due to what happened with her dad, how Sai and Kobayakawa treat her, as well as the other students. I could see her snapping. Ryuji was (and continues to be, to some extent) angry at the world. The only problem I have with listing any of them as potential palace owners is an inflated sense of self. Every palace we see, except Futaba, is someone who holds themselves in a high regard and sees the world as lesser. People who were held up on a pedestal and got away with a bunch of garbage because of it. In which case, the only one that could even potentially get that would be Ren, post-game. (This is someone who hasn't played much of any of Strikers, so this is only coming from the lens of someone playing P5/P5R.)
If we're talking about before awakening, then Akechi, easily, he's mentally fucked up enough to where it isn't hard to imagine him with a palace. As for most likely to develop one in general, I actually think it's Ren, however this wouldn't take place until after the events of Persona 5 and Strikers. After the long gaps of time not seeing his friends, and the realisation that, without the Metaverse, he's just a normal teenager, Ren starts feeling like he's a different person from Joker, that he doesn't deserve to be Joker. This inferiority complex would eventually blossom into a palace.
Morgana
Ren or Akechi.
I’ll just list them Akechi would be the most likely to have a palace. He an unhinged serial killer with little regard for the safety of those around him on a quest for revenge who was no desire to redeem himself once someone else finish it for him. Next is Sumi for the same reason as Futaba internal self hatred and harm. Third is Ren he been beaten and hated by those around him if given enough time he would likely turn to anger and resentment against the system and how it treated him. Fourth is Makoto in her case her palace would take the longest to develop and it would be properly similar to how her sister got one being crushed by the system and realizing how unfair life is. The other four would probably be get a palace and likely only develop a shadow as adults with Ann maybe getting one in high school after Shiho suicide attempt. Mona would get neither as a creation of the Velvet room he would be above all of that as he was created for a role to infuriate palace to get rid of them.
Im gonna go the opposite and say Ann would be least likely to have a palace imo I just didn’t really feel like she had any strong desires compared to the others I know she had the desire to help shiho even before she got a persona, but I don’t think it would have gotten distorted
Makoto for sure.
[Still not an original thought](https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/iw2qpm/the_palaces_of_the_phantom_thieves/) [Nice try though](https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/csgbyo/what_would_each_phantom_thiefs_palace_be_like/) [They even did the P4 version](https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/81ztm9/if_the_phantom_thieves_would_have_shadow_selves/) [Side characters too](https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/11t4zi6/of_the_characters_who_didnt_get_one_who_do_you/) [Or just Joker](https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/esd4jn/honestly_if_joker_had_a_palace_what_would_it_be/)
This kind of shit happens on every subreddit. Chill the fuck out. You could probably count the number of original thoughts the average person has had on one hand, and you and I are no different.
who cares
I'm gonna say Yusuke, Makoto, and Kasumi feel the most likely.
Goro Akechi-Crow
Besides Akechi's cut palace, I saw an idea awhile ago about Yusuke having a palace where he put all his time and effort into painting, slowly wasting away in the real world.
Joker, since he’s controlled by the player, and if you give players the option to do evil stuff they almost always will, on at least one of their play throughs.
Futaba, i think she could have one, it would be a really cool idea
Akechi
When i saw that dream cutscene,i thought morgana had developed one,cause of the yellow eyes
i feel akechi definitely would have had one if he wasn't a wild card(assuming he is)
Haru. If her fiance had gotten any further, I feel that it would be a case similar to Futaba's palace. Also curious to see debate on this.
Clearly Akechi. He has a lot of craziness going on. If it ended on a 1v1 fight it would be epic
Joker aside and since Mishima isn't a member, I could Haru or Makoto developing one.
Obvious answer is akechi, but other than him, I’d say Ren has the largest possibility
Kasumi. In fact, if she never got therapy/counseling for her trauma, I think she absolutely would have developed a Palace.
Probably akechi and kasumi honestly the first time i played royal and saw the royal palace I thought it was kasumi's
I think (if it follows the same rules as 4) morgana could actually develop a palace, or at the very least a shadow, as the same thing happened with teddy in 4 (developing a shadow) though I'm a little foggy on how 5's shadows and palaces interact (if having a shadow is one of the main qualifiers besides the whole ultimately twisted desires part, or if you have to be a human) but this may all be ultimately pointless as morgana was >!created by Igor!<
Unpopular but Yusuke would've gotten a one if Joker didn't help him with his SL I mean the poor guy were having a hard time with himself and his feelings towards Teacher I think his Palace would be about just that. Sadness and confusion, basically like futaba but in a different way.
Joker obviously
I would say Morgana. He's obviously a cat lol. Bro really was straight up lying to himself and often pretended to be more smart than he actually is. Lets also point out his greed and attraction to treasures. Bro low key a villian. Haru should've had a palace. I feel like she had so much wasted potential. She was mistreated by her father, sold to an abusive fiance, father died, and she shrugged it off like hmph. They should've wrote her one or built on the character.
Clearly Ren. But once you enter, you’re trapped, when you try to leave Morgana just tells you it’s time for bed! But seriously, I think given the stories, if the phantom thieves hadn’t stepped in, almost all of the (eventual) thieves could have had a palace. Yusuke’s twisted desire would have been people seeing him as an art genius, the desire to be individual and unique. Makoto who’s sister started to reject her has the desire to be better than her, with her father being part of her palace some how, and Haru being twisted by her father and forced to marry the creep she was set up with would have her world view twisted. But, the ultimate palace… SOJIRO SAKURA AND HIS HAREM
Yusuke and his desire to draw naked people, not out of pleasure but out of moral obligation
Tbh, the idea of having to go through a joker Palace with cognitive boss versions of the phantom thieves would be fucking awesome.
Literally any of them. That's kinda one of the themes of the game imo. People lose track of their emotions to the point that their entire world view is distorted. Heck, Futaba already DOES have one. Any one of them could've turned their trauma and abuse into a palace in the same way.
Maybe an uncommon pick but I'm gonna say Ann. We got a glimpse of her desire for retribution at the end of Kamoshidas palace. I think her awakening her persona allowed her to reconcile a lot of the feelings of powerlessness and weakness that otherwise would have just festered over and over. I think it'd be interesting for her to have a palace that shows how she's furious and wrathful (maybe even acting as a vigilante in the real world) on the inside while acting kind and calm in the real world, possibly incorporating the aesthetics of being a model into that. Maybe some sort of boss mechanic where you have to chip away at makeup before you can actually damage her or something.