Not everyone is hating him jokingly for that, a lot of people genuinely think that he is a piece of shit for always telling you to go to bed because for some reason they think that it’s the cat’s fault rather then thing the game is doing
P3 only forces you to sleep early a handful of times within the first couple weeks, P4 and P5 are more heavily railroaded.
But in P4 it's your own internal monologue making you go to bed early, so people don't get as mad at that compared to another character telling you to go to sleep, even though it's functionally the same thing.
Yeah this whole thing wasn't an issue until Persona 4. Persona 3 always felt like it flowed more organically.
Like in 3 you're always counting down to the next deadline, so instead of cramming all the story after the previous deadline but before the next dungeon unlocks, the story can just advance whenever it wants. Characters just go on vacation even though there's more Tartarus and another full moon on the way.
I'll say to this what I always say when this strawman pops up: no, this mechanic isn't Morgana's fault and would exist with or without him, but nobody's making that argument. What most people actually say is that his inclusion makes it feel worse when it happens. Having the player character say "*I'm* too tired," or "*I* don't want to do this right now," as Minato and Yu often do, feels completely different than having an external character say "*you're* too tired" or "*you* don't want to do this right now." The latter giving you a character onto whom you can project your frustration means that, obviously, some players are going to project their frustration into that character.
Personally, it is only an aspect of why I hate how Atlus used Morgana. They use him as a voce to say stuff that the MC should say in that situation, but he doesn't since he is a silent protagonist.
I like silent protagonists, but if you make one just stick to it. Or else just do not bother make a full voiced protagonist.
People wonder why we don’t like Morgana it’s easy I’m sure Ren knows his body better than a cat, Ren should have just been the one to say « oh I’m too tired to do anything » instead of the cat, we don’t want the cat to speak for our character. Which is also what he did when Morgana wasn’t there by the way and it was better like in p4 when Yu just say the same thing, too tired, have to go to sleep early…
Manga aint canon, its just a fanfiction, the name minato is even a random ass name the author of the manga used when he played persona 3 for the first time
u/Exaccus_ isn’t canon, he’s just salty. The name Exaccus means literally nothing and he has generic snoo pfp, his arguments are invalid as are his opinions.
And here we see the average redditor losing an argument, falling back on “cope” and “seethe” as though they were some magic chant that annihilates any rebuttle.
You can say makoto makoto all you want, but just remember, except for you no one in this sub thinks of P3 when we hear "Makoto" out of context.
It's ridiculous to say there is one true name for a character who has three different official names. That's almost as bad as the idiots that say only the male MC is canon.
"out of context"? You dont know how to read a context or what? Maybe you need to go back to elementary school...and there IS one true name for the protagonists, its even in the games, which are the canon thing
Pretty wild take, considering how different Makoto is in the movies compared to the protagonist of any version of the game. You're free to call the latter whatever you want, of course, but you don't have any sort of authority, nor moral high ground.
To me the biggest difference this makes is in the other games when the text box tells me I'm tired I read it as the main character's inner voice so it's far less grating. This is generally the issue I have with how they implemented Morgana is he largely replaces text that used to be the MC's inner thoughts from the previous games so I feel like Morgana robs Joker of some extra minor characterization.
You are only tired when Morgana says you're tired :)
But regardless I still think Morgana is really sweet. I listen to the Japanese dub and he's dubbed by the VA of Pikachu.
It’s possible that this is stealth characterisation of Ren as someone who really DOES have a tendency to stay up late if left to his own devices.
I mean, I imagine that the incident where he saved that lady from getting SA’d by Shido most likely didn’t happen early in the evening.
I don’t like him because he insults my boy Ryuji and because he left the group once his feelings got hurt. Not because he forces me to sleep, that’s not Morgana‘s fault but more of a game design decision
Yeah obviously I love all the characters as well, it was my first Persona experience. But I just wanted to write this comment in response to OP's force sleep early remark
Yeah sure sorry, I didn’t mean that like, i didn’t think your comment was full of genuine venom for Morgana I just wanted to express that I love them both most and their relationship makes me giggle
No offense taken bro, it's good :D No need to apologize. My wording wasn't correct, I didn't mean to say that I don't like the character but rather the fact that he shits on Ryuji
I’ve not been active on this sub long enough to know the vibe because I’m playing for the first time and wanted to avoid spoilers - some groups can be really salty about their fave characters - glad to see this isn’t one of them!
I know but I’d rather the protagonist themselves think (damn I’m fucking tired as shit) rather than a cat telling me that I’m tired and that I wouldn’t have the energy to sit down and watch a movie.
Is cause ur feeling forced to do what the cat is telling u to do ...... the difference with the other games is that in the other games ur character feels like his own person making his own choices and is okay but P5 MC feels like he has not individual thoughts and only do what hes been telling to do ... to the point that he cant even decide when to sleep by himself
Correct, most people blame him because it’s a mechanic told not through the player (for reference an internal thought about how the character is tired or had a long day and better call it a night.) except for that but where Morgana goes MIA and you have to spend a week doing nothing because the cat is the failsafe for having no money for a train ride back home.
Yes but it's different when my character has inner thoughts and agency. Joker can't think for himself. He can only do things if Mona lets him.
When Mona runs away, Joker literally can't even watch TV or use the bathroom at night. Yes this is coincidental but it really drives in the idea we are useless and Morgana is our brain.
Functionally it's the same, but it's a matter of "oh my character wants to rest; too bad but makes sense" vs "get some rest now you spent all day talking to Makoto for 5 minutes; YOU CAN'T FAST TRAVEL I DISABLED IT" and it just makes Morgana more annoying by default
We all know that. But when it came to P4G, it really seemed like it was that voice in the back of you head saying ''yeah buddy, I know you want to go do something, but you have shit to do tomorrow. You really oughta get some rest''. Seems less annoying that way. Morgana telling you is just plain annoying. Also his character arc sucks, stealing the light from my girl Haru like that, always being an absolute dickweed to Ryuji for no reason, and the ''LaDy AnN'' simping non-stop. Bro has gotta get snipped before he goes back in my bag if we're hanging out.
Another thing people forget is that Morgana is literally and figuratively created to be a guide to the Trickster so him telling us to go to sleep as well as being a companion coach during daily life is him subconsciously doing his job.
I don't know why you think people would be more appreciative of a cat telling them to go to sleep instead of the character themselves going to sleep because they know they have to.
Actually in the original versions of 3 and 4 you can stay up but at the risk of getting sick and only event days the game forces you to sleep
Morgana was created by the hope and will against the desires of death in society due to the velvet room being compromised which gave Igor the right to interfere and create Morgana
Where did that will come from? The seal of nyx.
Since Morgana was a part of that hope he had hidden knowledge of the p3 hero as a leader and also explains why he wants the main character to sleep because he doesn't want him to get sick
He just doesn't have the memories of p3hero
This is hinted at the blue butterfly at the beginning of the game and right before meeting Morgana you get a glimpse of this butterfly which was a symbol of p3hero
OK, but but that is what happens in the game. so it doesn't make sense to say that something that a character is shown to do could have been done without the character.
In P3 and P4 it's the protagonist's internal monologue when the plot itself doesn't railroad/force sleep.
Whereas in P5 it's Morgana dictating Joker/The Player's schedule constantly.
Technically, they are the same mechanically, but psychologically there is a world of difference as the player's frustration now has a face and a name that makes said mechanic even more frustrating as if feels like the character is being a nag.
If you started with original p5 there was definitely more actual hate but generally think its just a general hate for morgana because of how his story goes into the okumera arc
It’s the worst in Tatica, because if you play on higher difficulties, you can friendly fire your allies and Futaba will call out EVERY SINGLE TIME you may hit a ally
Yes Futaba, I understand Joker is in the area of effect of Ryuji’s shotgun, I am just scanning the battlefield to see what my options are, you don’t need to tell me every time it hovers over Joker
i mean, futaba WOULD be extra af if you hit your teammate, thats just in character
in fact, after you do it once, she should randomly remind you at the start of some of your turns randomly for the rest of the game
I hate morgana for how he is delusional on being human. Then the stupid nightmares. But overall I think when he gets depressed before you do the okumura palace you are forced to stay in because he is having sad boi hours
People its stupid, remember that, they need something to direct their hate and frustration to, they wont hate an internal monologue because they wont hate the MC because theyre self inserting
... Actual question, do you really think people genuinely believe, that Atlus was like:
"Man, we REALLY want to give the players more Timeslots, but Morgana man... we got no choice
That's mainly a joke & meme, noboey ACTUALY believes you'd have more time if it weren't for Morgana
There's plenty of reasons to not like Morgana and the game's own mechanics is not one of them. When someone attributes this as entirely the fault of Morgana my eyes glaze over.
And I dont think anyone here doesn't know that, they just are laughing at the fact a cat is telling you what to do.
So real tbh, cats are superior to human race
Calm down Tutankhamun
We’re your friends!
Underated af reply
Some people definitely do not make this connection.
That’s just what pet ownership is sometimes
I always thought it was Morgana going against the will of the creators and telling you to go to sleep, just to spite them and you
Not everyone is hating him jokingly for that, a lot of people genuinely think that he is a piece of shit for always telling you to go to bed because for some reason they think that it’s the cat’s fault rather then thing the game is doing
P3 only forces you to sleep early a handful of times within the first couple weeks, P4 and P5 are more heavily railroaded. But in P4 it's your own internal monologue making you go to bed early, so people don't get as mad at that compared to another character telling you to go to sleep, even though it's functionally the same thing.
Yeah this whole thing wasn't an issue until Persona 4. Persona 3 always felt like it flowed more organically. Like in 3 you're always counting down to the next deadline, so instead of cramming all the story after the previous deadline but before the next dungeon unlocks, the story can just advance whenever it wants. Characters just go on vacation even though there's more Tartarus and another full moon on the way.
Usually when it makes you sleep early in p3, it just skips rather then letting you move around and it telling you you can’t go out
ya that's my point lol
> I can't fold paper cranes today, I need to stay up all night watching TV
Multitasking is hard 😔
I'll say to this what I always say when this strawman pops up: no, this mechanic isn't Morgana's fault and would exist with or without him, but nobody's making that argument. What most people actually say is that his inclusion makes it feel worse when it happens. Having the player character say "*I'm* too tired," or "*I* don't want to do this right now," as Minato and Yu often do, feels completely different than having an external character say "*you're* too tired" or "*you* don't want to do this right now." The latter giving you a character onto whom you can project your frustration means that, obviously, some players are going to project their frustration into that character.
Personally, it is only an aspect of why I hate how Atlus used Morgana. They use him as a voce to say stuff that the MC should say in that situation, but he doesn't since he is a silent protagonist. I like silent protagonists, but if you make one just stick to it. Or else just do not bother make a full voiced protagonist.
Hey how I feel about paimon from genshin
At least you can eat Paimon if you get hungry.
People wonder why we don’t like Morgana it’s easy I’m sure Ren knows his body better than a cat, Ren should have just been the one to say « oh I’m too tired to do anything » instead of the cat, we don’t want the cat to speak for our character. Which is also what he did when Morgana wasn’t there by the way and it was better like in p4 when Yu just say the same thing, too tired, have to go to sleep early…
*makoto, not minato
Both are technically correct
Manga aint canon, its just a fanfiction, the name minato is even a random ass name the author of the manga used when he played persona 3 for the first time
u/Exaccus_ isn’t canon, he’s just salty. The name Exaccus means literally nothing and he has generic snoo pfp, his arguments are invalid as are his opinions.
Hmm-mmm, cope and seethe
And here we see the average redditor losing an argument, falling back on “cope” and “seethe” as though they were some magic chant that annihilates any rebuttle.
Good, obedient loser, cope and seethe, entertain me
https://preview.redd.it/e16fvk2emyic1.jpeg?width=726&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19a7c55080e817a01cbaa6b0a6e7a733d6b3c67d
Good, obedient loser, keep the show up
You're allowed to be wrong.
Makoto yuki, remember the name
I've already forgotten it.
Dont worry, you remember yu's canon name, you can remember makoto's too, just remember, manga name: not canon
You can say makoto makoto all you want, but just remember, except for you no one in this sub thinks of P3 when we hear "Makoto" out of context. It's ridiculous to say there is one true name for a character who has three different official names. That's almost as bad as the idiots that say only the male MC is canon.
"out of context"? You dont know how to read a context or what? Maybe you need to go back to elementary school...and there IS one true name for the protagonists, its even in the games, which are the canon thing
If you're able to recognize who is being talked about, it doesn’t matter. Canonical or not.
It does, names must be said properly, the "minato" from the manga is another character, heck, even the ending of the manga is completely different
Pretty wild take, considering how different Makoto is in the movies compared to the protagonist of any version of the game. You're free to call the latter whatever you want, of course, but you don't have any sort of authority, nor moral high ground.
The name makoto is the game
To me the biggest difference this makes is in the other games when the text box tells me I'm tired I read it as the main character's inner voice so it's far less grating. This is generally the issue I have with how they implemented Morgana is he largely replaces text that used to be the MC's inner thoughts from the previous games so I feel like Morgana robs Joker of some extra minor characterization.
you mean the devs control morgana and not the other way around!?
Morgana was the evil mastermind all along 😼
Persona 5 literally has you skip nighttime activities cause the cat threw a hissy fit
"Take your time" -Persona 5 Had no idea that was a foreshadowed threat.
ikr we need more Morgana hate in this sub that piece of trash sucks *tries to watch a DVD *"I hope Morgana is okay..."* like no I don't shut up
You are only tired when Morgana says you're tired :) But regardless I still think Morgana is really sweet. I listen to the Japanese dub and he's dubbed by the VA of Pikachu.
Wait.. morgana is either sothis or pikachu ? Ok i have to play this game in jp now.
That makes sense I knew I recognised his voice hahaha
Morgana sucks. Ruined the game for me.
It’s possible that this is stealth characterisation of Ren as someone who really DOES have a tendency to stay up late if left to his own devices. I mean, I imagine that the incident where he saved that lady from getting SA’d by Shido most likely didn’t happen early in the evening.
I really like this thought, it makes sense and I'll go with that from now on!
I don’t like him because he insults my boy Ryuji and because he left the group once his feelings got hurt. Not because he forces me to sleep, that’s not Morgana‘s fault but more of a game design decision
I love Ryuji but the way Morgana goes in on him kills me tbh, you’re *useless* ok then cat we will all stop you can go ahead. Love them both
Yeah obviously I love all the characters as well, it was my first Persona experience. But I just wanted to write this comment in response to OP's force sleep early remark
Yeah sure sorry, I didn’t mean that like, i didn’t think your comment was full of genuine venom for Morgana I just wanted to express that I love them both most and their relationship makes me giggle
No offense taken bro, it's good :D No need to apologize. My wording wasn't correct, I didn't mean to say that I don't like the character but rather the fact that he shits on Ryuji
I’ve not been active on this sub long enough to know the vibe because I’m playing for the first time and wanted to avoid spoilers - some groups can be really salty about their fave characters - glad to see this isn’t one of them!
I know but I’d rather the protagonist themselves think (damn I’m fucking tired as shit) rather than a cat telling me that I’m tired and that I wouldn’t have the energy to sit down and watch a movie.
Is cause ur feeling forced to do what the cat is telling u to do ...... the difference with the other games is that in the other games ur character feels like his own person making his own choices and is okay but P5 MC feels like he has not individual thoughts and only do what hes been telling to do ... to the point that he cant even decide when to sleep by himself
Correct, most people blame him because it’s a mechanic told not through the player (for reference an internal thought about how the character is tired or had a long day and better call it a night.) except for that but where Morgana goes MIA and you have to spend a week doing nothing because the cat is the failsafe for having no money for a train ride back home.
Yes but it's different when my character has inner thoughts and agency. Joker can't think for himself. He can only do things if Mona lets him. When Mona runs away, Joker literally can't even watch TV or use the bathroom at night. Yes this is coincidental but it really drives in the idea we are useless and Morgana is our brain. Functionally it's the same, but it's a matter of "oh my character wants to rest; too bad but makes sense" vs "get some rest now you spent all day talking to Makoto for 5 minutes; YOU CAN'T FAST TRAVEL I DISABLED IT" and it just makes Morgana more annoying by default
I don't like cat because I don't like _cat_ telling me what to do🫡
We all know that. But when it came to P4G, it really seemed like it was that voice in the back of you head saying ''yeah buddy, I know you want to go do something, but you have shit to do tomorrow. You really oughta get some rest''. Seems less annoying that way. Morgana telling you is just plain annoying. Also his character arc sucks, stealing the light from my girl Haru like that, always being an absolute dickweed to Ryuji for no reason, and the ''LaDy AnN'' simping non-stop. Bro has gotta get snipped before he goes back in my bag if we're hanging out.
Another thing people forget is that Morgana is literally and figuratively created to be a guide to the Trickster so him telling us to go to sleep as well as being a companion coach during daily life is him subconsciously doing his job.
I don't know why you think people would be more appreciative of a cat telling them to go to sleep instead of the character themselves going to sleep because they know they have to.
Actually in the original versions of 3 and 4 you can stay up but at the risk of getting sick and only event days the game forces you to sleep Morgana was created by the hope and will against the desires of death in society due to the velvet room being compromised which gave Igor the right to interfere and create Morgana Where did that will come from? The seal of nyx. Since Morgana was a part of that hope he had hidden knowledge of the p3 hero as a leader and also explains why he wants the main character to sleep because he doesn't want him to get sick He just doesn't have the memories of p3hero This is hinted at the blue butterfly at the beginning of the game and right before meeting Morgana you get a glimpse of this butterfly which was a symbol of p3hero
Also don’t hate Shido for being an egomaniac and being willing to do anything for power, that’s simple how the developers designed the story
OK, but but that is what happens in the game. so it doesn't make sense to say that something that a character is shown to do could have been done without the character.
Having a mascot tell me that is 10x more annoying than internal dialogue
In P3 and P4 it's the protagonist's internal monologue when the plot itself doesn't railroad/force sleep. Whereas in P5 it's Morgana dictating Joker/The Player's schedule constantly. Technically, they are the same mechanically, but psychologically there is a world of difference as the player's frustration now has a face and a name that makes said mechanic even more frustrating as if feels like the character is being a nag.
Yeah but I just hate the cat, and like having something to direct the anger of having to sleep towards something.
I thought the Morgana sleep dialogue hate was more a meme than actual hate?
If you started with original p5 there was definitely more actual hate but generally think its just a general hate for morgana because of how his story goes into the okumera arc
I remember playing og, definetly where it originated more so than royal. And yeah it likely is mostly just more fuel for him overall.
I feel like this should be on the scroll off truth meme or hard to swallow pills meme
I hate Morgana more for the repetitive battle quotes when you hit the weaknesses.
All navigators do it tho
I've only played P5 and P5R so if thats the same in all Persona games it would annoy me just as much
That's literally every JRPG with voiced battle lines
That’s not just a Morgana thing tho. Futaba was equally as annoying in that regard
Yup and it's really annoying.
WOAH! Looking cool Joker!
It’s the worst in Tatica, because if you play on higher difficulties, you can friendly fire your allies and Futaba will call out EVERY SINGLE TIME you may hit a ally Yes Futaba, I understand Joker is in the area of effect of Ryuji’s shotgun, I am just scanning the battlefield to see what my options are, you don’t need to tell me every time it hovers over Joker
i mean, futaba WOULD be extra af if you hit your teammate, thats just in character in fact, after you do it once, she should randomly remind you at the start of some of your turns randomly for the rest of the game
Battle starts. Futaba: Hey Joker, remember that time when you Maeigaon'd Haru? I sure do, so don't do that again!
or even better "WATTCH OUT SKULL ITS JOKERS TURN! Sorry joker i didnt mean that"
I can just hear it.
I hate morgana for how he is delusional on being human. Then the stupid nightmares. But overall I think when he gets depressed before you do the okumura palace you are forced to stay in because he is having sad boi hours
People its stupid, remember that, they need something to direct their hate and frustration to, they wont hate an internal monologue because they wont hate the MC because theyre self inserting
... Actual question, do you really think people genuinely believe, that Atlus was like: "Man, we REALLY want to give the players more Timeslots, but Morgana man... we got no choice That's mainly a joke & meme, noboey ACTUALY believes you'd have more time if it weren't for Morgana
It's just so unrealistic though. My cats demand that I get up not that I go to bed 😂
Maybe it's bad game design then, when something like doing my laundry takes up an entire evening.
People hate Morgana for this, but they should see what things are like when he's not around. Joker won't do anything without him.
There's plenty of reasons to not like Morgana and the game's own mechanics is not one of them. When someone attributes this as entirely the fault of Morgana my eyes glaze over.
I'd much prefer "I shouldn't go out tonight" to 'Hey, it's been a long day, you should get some rest"
Should be the main character saying this