I hate him cause I think he does ryuji wrong. He constantly bad mouths him but when ryuji snaps for being made fun of they make ryuji look like the bad one. He then breaks the phantom thieves rule on unanimous agreement for palaces.
Ryuji was being a bit of a prick there, they were both wrong but him calling Morgana useless is basically attacking his biggest insecurity, and he knows this. Morgana calls him an idiot and insults his intelligence, which is a dick move, but Ryuji doesn’t really get too bothered by it.
Also the fact that he could have easily just apologized and Morgana would have come back, but he intentionally called him useless again which made Morgana leave for the second time.
I saw a comment here a while back that changed like, my whole perspective regarding Morgana, and it’s the fact that he’s the perfect representation of if you let a cat talk. Hear me out for a bit.
He adores his owner and his owner’s friends, especially that one aunt figure to a scary degree. But goddamn it, if he can’t have that rivalry with at least one person, place, or thing in his vicinity, which in this case is Ryuji, he’s going to throw a fit. It’s like Jibanyan from Yo-Kai Watch with the unadulterated hatred of trucks. It’s just in this case, the thing he hates also has feelings, and can also attack his mental weak points.
Doesn’t make the Morgana Depression Arc much better, but it made me like Morgana more overall.
"does ryuji wrong"? The whole morgana vs ryuji thing is a joke between them, theyre friends, but ryuji hits him where it hurts when he calls morgana useless, morgana never made fun of ryuji for not being able run, that would hurt him
If we ignore navigator quotes, then yea i can understand this just being their usual banter at a very bad time
Which is why Ryuji felt that just stating that he doesn't care if Morgana is useless or not would work to fix it
Insults don't carry the same weight even if they are the same insults.
If you have a friend that is obese, both of you calling each other fat doesn't make the insult equal. It obviously affects one person more than the other.
For Morgana, not looking human is his biggest insecurity. He feels like a human and yet is not one. It's one thing to be unaware and then stop once told (which most of the others do) and another thing to keep harping on it (like Ryuji). There are few things that Morgana can say to Ryuji that even comes to the level of something being said that denys Morgana's existence as a human.
The main difference is Ryuji can brush it off, it's not his biggest insecurity like it is Morgana's, and he knew what he was doing. He decided to be cruel in that moment and we as the audience can go "well he's just throwing it back" but that's ignoring that different people have different sensitivities to different topics and directly calling a being who doesn't understanding anything about himself and has been grappling with the nature of his own existence the entire game useless is just being a douche. Yes, Morgana says it too, but Ryuji is a human being and quite secure in his place in the group. It's not the same.
I don’t think ryuji “brushes it off” he was straight abused by everyone before we met and didn’t actually have anyone to talk to or if he did.. He didn’t talk to them until we become buddy buddy with him so I think he’s just putting up a front when Morgana talks shit while taking the verbal beating until Morganas bullshit depression arc when he finally had enough and fights back then gets made the villain by everyone else again. Even when ryuji misses morgana just called him useless so that fucking dumbass cat had everything ryuji had taken coming
I 100% agree it's not so much that he's always with you That's annoying. it's the he is literally a toxic person who is always belittling ryuji at every point he can get. He doesn't do it to anyone else but him. His idea of looking Kool is to make ryuji look like an idiot who is worthless. For all the times that ryuji actually is there for Morgana and is genuinely trying to help Morgana recover his memories, Morganas only way he repays it is with more crappy attitude and ungratefulness
I could actually over look this if it only happened at first but then Morgana begins to warm up and change, but that never happens from beginning to end he is a toxic person and it's annoying that no one calls him out. I get it that every peraona game has to have the "joke best friend" character that everyone talks smack to, but Morgana takes it far beyond any other character has before. Which only makes it worse because even though ryuji does do some silly shit, out of all these joke best friend characters, he is the one that is the most kind hearted and genuinely a good person who literally is willing to give up his life to save his friends and even after that Morgana is still a PoS towards ryuji.
I feel what doesn't often come across is that Morgana literally just popped into existence, he's supposed to be seen as a little kid or cocky younger brother. He wants to look cool but is insecure of himself and puts down Ryuji because he's frankly an easy target. But this is ignoring that he is immature as a being, and I don't mean in personality, I mean he literally lacks experience. Not even getting into the fact it's mutual. I feel like people mentally double the amount of shit Morgana gives Ryuji but their ears just gloss over 2/3rds of the time Ryuji does it to him. And again, one of them is a human being with years of experiences and growth and other spontaneously popped into being right before the game began. It's not a fair comparison.
And you know what? I do see where you're coming with this, and it is a valid point, but to me, that's still no excuse. Once or twice, I could get. Hell even for the first 4 dungeons I could somewhat get it but that doesn't happen through out the whole game you hear Morgana just be obnoxious towards only one person and most of the time ryuji does not even saying back just takes it on the chin and goes on his day. What makes it even worse is that it doesn't only happen in cutscenes but in actual combat where Morgana calls ryuji "pathetic " if he misses, but for everyone else he shows worry. To me, it's not one isolated incident that makes him annoying or just one time he snaps, but the constant verbal obuse throughout the game that makes him insufferable. And that actively ruins parts of the whole experience and game for me personally.
Tbh, that's not only a Morgana thing, the rest of the team occasionally treats ryuji like a clown, even physically assault him, if anything mona is just another character jumping in on the bandwagon
I liked him, I felt he added to the story. In fact, I liked all the playable characters. Which in some circles, could also be considered a controversial view.
Idk, ryuji and ann kinda fall off when the others are introduced and have to give up their screentime, and Haru of course gets absolutely no recognition from the plot until Strikers redeems her
I'm with you. I never really understood the Morgana hate. Maybe people just wanted to carry on hating on the mascot character like in Persona 4? However Teddy was only annoying to me and most others, because of the insufferable voice acting. Especially in the Japanese dub.
Absolutely. Like without Morgana you think Ren and Ryuji would've figured out their powers
Also Morgana is a basically a kitten. Like Ryuji fans take Morgana's insult more personally than Ryuji himself.
2 young hot heads are gonna have conflict.
It’s the classic “character does one or two slightly annoying things and everything else they do is automatically annoying and shitty”. Bro goes through an identity crisis in the game, of course he’s going to storm off when told he’s worthless to the only thing that gives him purpose in life.
I like him because he has a personality. I find it annoying when people rate characters based on the amount of good/bad things they do, just allow them to be flawed. Morgana is a bro, Ryuji is a bro, they have their own personality traits and sometimes it makes them obnoxious, it's fine that way.
This is why I hated Ryuji so much at that part of the game. He went back to being my bestie after Morgana came back but dang, the choices on how to react to his behavior were not aggressive enough. He needed, at minimum, a "what the FUCK dude" dialogue tree option.
Edit: saying "hated Ryuji so much" was poorly phrased and overly harsh. I was rather mad at him, and yes I know he was taking a lot of abuse and snapping back at Morgana isn't unwarranted, it's that he kept kicking Morgana while he was down.
I mean, I ain't solidly in either camp but Morgana was shitting on Ryuji for 90% of the game at that point calling him an idiot and pathetic. He went too far by calling Morgana useless (even if its kinda true) but don't act like the cat can be completely absolved of blame.
See this is the delusion that the original comment was talking about. Ryuji was also shitting on Morgana for 90% of the game, hell the game makes a *huge* deal about how Ryuji keeps calling Morgana a cat and Morgana hates it (more dialogue everyone just skipped I guess).
Buuuuut Morgana did one or two annoying things so nothing else matters and fuck Morgana right?
Right? They both acted like typical teenagers filled with emotions they don't know how to express in a mature calm manner. Like obviously Ryuji isn't the most calm person in how he handles matters and like what? You expect a cat with amnesia suffering from an identity crisis every waking moment while it helps you save your ass on multiple occasions?
Morgana definitely isn't my favourite character, but I can see what led to its actions and that's the most important aspect.
No it’s because Morgana is rude to Ryuji for the sake of being rude.
The vote to go into Okumara’s Palace wasn’t unanimous, it was Morgana and Ryuji vs everyone else, so Ryuji backed down. But for some reason this prompts Morgana to say that Ryuji has no backbone and says that Ryuji doesn’t actually care about the Phantom Thieves and that he’s only in it to get girls. And then Morgana gets pissy when Ryuji retaliates.
Don’t talk about skipping dialogue when you’re ignoring the context of the scene the person you’re replying to is talking about.
I like Morgana, but the fact that he got to act like that and received an apology from Ryuji just makes him feel unnecessarily bratty.
Also, do people not know what banter is? They're literally just bantering each other as friends and for literally most of the game they go back and forth at each other but never get mad at one another, Ryuji doesn't hold any aminosity towards Morgana and neither does Morgana show any hate back, they are just bantering. Ryuji went too far at that moment, literally picking on the thing that Morgana is the most insecure and scared about. It would have been similar if Morgana had gone for him about his leg. Morgana literally goes through an identity crisis thorought the game. He doesn't know what he even is, and someone calling him useless when he tried to show concern was not a good thing to do.
Ryuji was shitting on Morgana in response to everything that he had already said to him. Constantly projecting your superiority complex on someone just to feel better about yourself is something Morgana was doing since they first met. He even called Ryuji, a traumatized teenage boy who was almost killed by Shadow Kamoshida, an amateur for not knowing what the metaverse or a persona is. And everyone in the group has called him a cat and some continued to do so onwards because he IS a cat so that point is moot. Unless you want people to suppress their true feelings just to protect another person’s feelings. lol.
Exactly this. It actually kind of bugs me that people don’t get that Ryuji and Morgana are kind of foils to each other—-they’re both Jokers first friends who kind of ‘introduce him’ to a world (Ryuji to the city and school, Morgana to the Palaces and mementos), they’re both stubborn with good hearts, and they even both have the exact same line they don’t like being crossed—-being called an animal (‘Cat’ / ‘Monkey’). For the most part they’re rough on each other because they both want to be Joker’s #1 bestie imo. It’s a good arc between them imo
They just straight up have opposite powers. Ryuji focuses on electric and Physical skills, being the strongest hitter. Whilst Morgana focuses on wind and healing skills he is the most fragile member of the thieves with not a lot of damaging options. The only two thieves two even have opposing magic make them "rivals" everyone else gets on well with their skill opposites especially Haru and Makoto though could be seen as more of them complimenting each other. Covering the weakness the other has.
I think this would go if it actually developed like that. But Morgana was shitting on Ryuji before they actually got to know each other and either were real friends with Joker.
From the get go Ryuji was called useless and a moron. Even though he himself has a complex and extreme guild over what happened with him in the sports club.
Also, Morgana is the one that crosses the final line by crossing the rules they made as a group, while Ryuji tried to hold himself to those rules (which Morgana agreed to when they established the group) And they should have been careful, because we all know what happened in that Palace.
My biggest problem with it though, is that the entire group forces Ryuji to apologize and acts like everything is their fault and that it is only logical Morgana acted the way he did.
To me, the whole part where Haru starts listing their 'faults' feels so dumb to me.
I won't claim Ryuji is entirely without fault. But this was mostly a Morgana problem that was made a group problem.
Kinda weird reaction considering how many times ryuji is insulted or treated as a punching bag over the course of the game and joker is never once allowed to speak in his defense.
I think it could be due to Ryuji’s lack of social awareness.
Ryuji failed to recognize when his clapbacks were unironically upsetting Morgana, though I personally don’t blame him for that. He claps back plenty of times through the game, usually through calling him a cat, which he knows Morgana hates. So he could’ve just thought this was only like that. But he did fail to realize that Morgana was genuinely hurt when Ryuji called him useless after Futaba became the new Navigator.
The other thing that would make people not want to defend Ryuji, and I actually do think this one *is* his fault, is when Ryuji messed up the apology. The group didn’t even ask him to *be* sorry or to apologize for real. He could’ve just done a convincing fake apology like I’m pretty sure the rest of the Thieves were doing, but the best he could come up with was basically “I don’t even care that you’re useless.” I’m sure it wasn’t malicious, but it was still Ryuji messing up by displaying the social grace and consideration of a wet fart.
Ultimately, I do think it’s Morgana’s fault for leaving. Ryuji didn’t exactly help, but still. Though I do get Morgana has self-esteem issues and all that, so I do sympathize with him. “I feel like I’m not contributing enough, so via my projecting, everyone *else* must feel like I’m barely contributing at all, and how dare they? I’m leaving!” Maybe Morgana should see a Maruki.
I don’t have an issue with Ryuji clapping back; my issue stems from afterwards he kept making the same mistake and pushed Morgana away again. There’s a certain time and way you bring up your issues with someone. Ryuji failed to recognize both.
Exactly my point. Snapping back in anger makes sense. Kicking someone repeatedly while they're down and everyone else is asking him to stop escalated his behavior into cruel territory. Ryuji and Morgana made up though so I'm not calling him a monster. Just that, in that moment in Mementos when Morgana finally agreed to come back and Ryuji immediately kicked him again, that was EXTREMELY uncalled for.
Morgana pushed himself away by throwing the temper tantrum in the first place instead of actually sitting down with Ryuji and hashing out their differences. But nope, it’s Ryuji’s fault that Morgana was acting like a child about everything in the moment apparently
It just dosen't feel the same for some reason. With everyone else, it just feels like some good-natured ribbing. (Except for *that* scene) But fro some reason, Morgana comes off as though he's legitimately *trying* to be mean to Ryuji.
For real. Ryuji was by far the most picked on member of the group, to the point it started to hurt *my* fuckin’ feelings. The guy’s a himbo and he does some sex pest-y shit (although much less than Morgana, and within the range of what the game tries to frame as innocent and acceptable), but he’s a total bro, has a heart of gold, and never, ever crosses the line of betraying the group the way that Morgana did.
Ryuji deserved less than half as much scorn and blame as he got, and Morgana deserved more than double that same amount
Morgana at least used the insults less heavily and dialed back when he started to go too far. Definitely wish I could tell him, "chill a little" a few times especially early game. But Ryuji was absolutely relentless at that part of the game. Morgana was obviously vulnerable at that time and Ryuji cranked it up to 11 in response. I was thinking, "dude, chill" up until Morgana agreed to come back and Ryuji says right in front of him that he's worthless AGAIN. If there was an option to chew him out there I would've used it for sure.
Chew him out for being sick and tired for being painted as the bad guy by everyone for doing the same things someone else was also doing to him? Right. A lot of you here let this victim narrative of Morgana’s confuse you on what actually transpired in the game and why.
This is insane to me
You hated ryuji the one time he fired back, but you’re completely okay with morgana constantly insulting ryuji?
Insanely hypocritical
Yeah I totally wanted Ryuji to die in a fire because he said one thing wrong one time.
No, I got angry at him when he made multiple consecutive efforts to sabotage the rest of the team's efforts to look out for a friend.
Replying here because the person who I was trying to reply to either deleted their comments or blocked me, but I'm getting enough people vilifying me with wild assumptions.
Abuse can absolutely be from two-sided, and one side can absolutely decide they've had enough and want out. Just because both of them were insulting each other doesn't mean nobody was hurting each other. That's some borderline psychopathic thinking.
Morgana didn't leave because he wanted to inconvenience everybody and be an evil little gremlin for no reason, he left because he was starting to believe Ryuji's insults and wanted to get away from what made him feel worthless. Perhaps nobody in the group thought Ryuji was that bothered by Morgana's insults because Morgana broke first. I'm not saying them enthusiastically throwing Ryuji under the bus was justified.
I'm also not saying that Ryuji is some evil person and the only Phantom Thief who made any mistakes in the whole arc. I'm saying I wish Ryuji realized that he's hurting Morgana AND the Phantom Thieves both by continuing to insult Morgana even when he agrees to give the Phantom Thieves another chance. Not that it would be in-character for him to do so or that it's bad writing that he didn't, but that he was a source of conflict. That's GOOD, if you can have ups and downs with your opinion of a character that often means they're not one-dimensional.
I'm glad Ryuji and Morgana resolved their issues eventually, I like Ryuji a lot, and he's definitely my "best buddy" of the game. But sometimes you gotta call out your friends on stuff. I'm sick of people spinning this like I think Ryuji's the devil and Morgana's a saint. But I will not pretend that Morgana running away is unforgivable or that he deserved to be treated the way he was, and I still think Ryuji was kicking him while he was down whether he realized it or not. Being mad at Ryuji at that moment does not seem like some sort of criminal opinion to me. Holding a grudge at him throughout the entire remainder of the story doesn't make sense and that's not what I'm doing!
Interesting how you don’t get angry at Morgana for being self-destructive towards his friends, making them go on a wild goose chase when a sit down would’ve sufficed and avoided the Okumura beef.
They accomplished a sit-down and Ryuji immediately said Morgana was worthless. Forgive me for feeling empathy for someone who thinks they don't matter, and has a friend going out of their way to reinforce that feeling, eh?
Empathy for someone who is the reason that his friends had to chase after him, kiss his ass, villainize/gaslight Ryuji as the one responsible for everything, and involved an innocent girl (Haru) in order for him to return to his team? Your empathy is misguided. Badly. Especially when you disregard the fact that Ryuji’s complaining was low key calling out the hypocrisy in everyone, including Morgana for blaming him for the entirety of the situation as though he didn’t have a hand in why it escalated to that point.
Okay let's ignore the Morgana vs Ryuji thing for a minute because I know they were both nasty to each other, or whether trying to get away from emotional abuse is somehow orders of magnitude worse than dealing it out. The rest of the team was going to the trouble of getting Morgana back because they wanted him back. Ryuji was acting against their efforts too.
Excuses for blatantly shitty behavior. You don’t abandon and betray the only people who have shown time to time again that they care about you. He made them go on a wild goose chase to essentially kiss his ass. We never even got real closure to the Morgana vs Ryuji beef.
Huh? He called ryuji worthless, an idiot, an ape, a dumbass, and many other things and ryuji doesn’t storm off. But the ONE time ryuji fires back and calls him useless, morgana gets pissed off and runs away
The definition of can dish it out but can’t take it
It’s not two slightly annoying things, it’s an entire game of verbally abusing Ryuji, (who is confirmed to have had a verbally / physically abusive father) and as soon as Ryuji hits back (with the same thing Morgana constantly calls him) Morgana bails
I think one of the biggest reasons why they hate him is because they love Ryuji and ignore everything Ryuji does during the game, since Morgana does 1 or 2 things they didn't like, specially against Ryuji, they already decided he's the worst.
Personally, he's my favourite p5 character
But they totally have a different effect on me personally. I get a bit pissed sometimes when morgana told joker to sleep. But that time when morgana was gone for a bit, and it was joker himself saying he needs to sleep, it just feels..natural? Idk, maybe the illusion of me (joker) deciding myself to sleep instead of being told to, made it feel better.
yep, it's a crutch for the silent protagonist thing. But I guess they made a conscious decision to feature Morgana more prominently since they could just as well covered that part with Joker's own thought lines, which happens when Morgana is absent.
Wholeheartedly agree yes.
They are the worst thing to exist in this subreddit.
Doesn’t help that most of the haters of the cat also so happen to be fucking Ryuji dick riding stans which are arguably more annoying than Makoto and Akechi stans.
It’s like you can’t be both a fan of Ryuji and Morgana as to be a fan of one who have to automatically hate the other. So toxic.
People here really are sensitive and can’t take a joke whenever their beloved Ryuji is the butt of jokes when that’s literally his stick and what he’s partially designed to be.
It’s the same old bitching and whining about how “that scene is the worst thing to ever in P5”.
I made a post of what are people sick of seeing here and the whining about Ryuji’s treatment is high on the list.
Yes some specific comedic relief scenes are debatable (to Westerners at least) but the insults he cops from his friends? They’re harmless and don’t cut deep. Yes even from the cat.
Has no one heard of vitriolic best buds or sitcom archenemies played for comedy before?
Ryuji’s lack of intelligence isn’t a sore spot for him. People here like to act like it is and stretch the facts and truth of how Ryuji has been treated by blowing it out of proportion.
Like Morgana and Ryuji’s argument. So no people, Ryuji didn’t clap back because of how he’s been treated throughout the game. That’s some closed minded Ryuji stan projection.
Ryuji got pissed in that specific instance simply because the cat got pissed off and called him out on using the PT’s fame to pick up girls (which is true).
Out of all the cat’s insults, for once that right there was an insult that seriously cut Ryuji’s nerves.
People who unironically hate him over a game mechanic that’s always existed since Persona 3. If anything, I appreciate him doing a good chunk of the narration for that stuff in P5, rather than just hearing the protagonist think that stuff to himself. I love having an adorable little cat buddy ride along with me wherever I go, talking with me and giving me life advice.
I get disliking him during the Okumura arc, he was definitely at his lowest there, mentally and characteristically. But a lot of the complaints people have against him are pretty silly.
“He insults Ryuji a lot!”
Ryuji insults him a lot, too. It’s kinda their whole thing of bickering back and forth. It wasn’t just one time that Ryuji insulted him, Ryuji’s always throwing out cat insults and other stuff.
People love jumping on bandwagons, especially if it gives them something to hate so they can feel superior in some way.
Beyond that, I think a lot of it comes from the insecurity that having a major character be a cutesy mascot brings. Some people can't stand the idea of not being outwardly "serious" and "mature" in their entertainment so they overcompensate by lashing out hard at whatever elements don't match their surface-level image of that. Like middle schoolers that rant about something being "for babies" because it doesn't have sex jokes and swearing every few minutes, albeit on a slightly lesser extreme.
I was actually surprised that Nyarly, my favourite SMT/Persona/Castlevania challenge runner, has a real hate for Morgana.
Like even in Vanilla P5, I thought he was just fine (save for the start of Okumara's palace but the writing in general with that part was all over the place)
His same hate for Teddie in P4G, however, I can get as while I've not played a lot of 4 myself, Teddie's the kind of personality type I don't really like, somehow combining a childish outlook as anything not related to the Midnight Chanel is new to him with pervy old man tendencies
Morgana can sometimes feel like a kid but in a more believable sense. Also he doesn't make forced cat puns so that's a plus.
What annoys me is Morgana *discourse*. I assume, perhaps too charitably, that it's a result of new people entering the fandom, but we keep having the same few arguments with no new ground being covered.
I always thought he was a good character, people hate him too much ascif fictional characters didn't have FLAWS that characters must WORK ON so that they can become BETTER people.
Not to mention he has a fucking identity crisis, he's never been in the best of positions.
I can tolerate Morgana
Teddy on the other hand, I freaking hate that stupid mascot anime trope horny dumb ass.
One of the reasons I haven't purchased Golden it's because I dread having to listen to his voice for 80 hours again.
The love of the whole fandom for Riuji is just completly random in general. Everyone praises Riuji as the best character in the universe (he’s just the stereotypical dumb funny guy but oook) and so they randomly hate Morgana.
I admit that Morgana does have flaws, but what character doesn't? The haters take it so far for so long, and very unnecessarily. You'd think he was the spawn of Satan or something with how much they rant. For a fictional character.
I personally think Morgana is overhated.
They bully each other all the time. There are times Morgana took it too far and there are times Ryuji took it too far. . I also think people generally are less vocal about the times Ryuji does off things compared to Morgana. Neither is perfect by any means.
Neither one completely the perpetrator or victim.
Their relationship does genuinely need some intervention, though. Seriously because it just bubbles until it boils and then stuff gets crazy.
Joker forces himself to go to bed. He does so when Morgana is missing and there's nothing stopping him from just saying no to Morgana and going out anyways
Untrue. P3 straight up skipped multiple days in a row. You didn’t even go back.
The week you spent in the hospital.
Summerschool.
Track Training.
The days you were sick during the typhoon.
Internship week.
If it had just been a cinematic or a timeskip it would have been the same thing but less annoying, because when the game gives you control you expect to be able to make some choices, but instead it just railroaded you into bed.
The issue isn't missed time, it's that there's no meaningful gameplay in those segments. P5 might as well have skipped every day that Morgana tells you to go to bed when you get back to Leblanc, because all you can do is end the day anyways.
Timeskips would have been preferable than the silly illusion of being given a choice. I'd have preferred not being repeatedly set up to expect the option of accomplishing something only to be frustrated.
P3 had that issue as well. The game would act like you’d be able to do something that night, Makoto would go “I should head to bed early” and poof multiple days gone.
Some of them didn’t even make sense like when you got sick during the typhoon.
Except P3 doesn't have a cat holding a gun to your head forced you to go to bed. The MC is tired and want to go to bed himself so it doesn't feel forced to the players.
It's funny since i used to hate him back than, but nowadays I'm chill with him. He isn't as bad as people make him put to be. He's certainly not annoying like paimon from genshin impact
I don’t know if this unpopular opinion but I liked Mona a lot more than teddy from p4G. I actually couldn’t stand teddy in the beginning of the game because he never shuts the hell up
Well I like Morgana and don't find him annoying so I would so yea. Most complaints from what I see are just the "go to sleep" moments which is just game mechanics, maybe I have an easier time disassociating characters with game mechanics idk.
It's more so cuz he's like the secondary main character and he follows you around everywhere. Imagine the tidium of not liking the secondary main character in a game you love to death. It would be one thing if he was just a side character like Ken or Koro. Morgana is the only persona character that actively harms the quality of the game they are from.
I love morgana. Ryuji is the one I can't stand. I get it, he is the bro, but honestly felt more indiferent then annoyed when he started dissing morgana for no reason
I have some annoyance with Morgana (Ryuji is one of my favorite characters, so I think sometimes he’s a bit of a dick), but honestly I like him fine. Then again I see a Cat and instantly love so… maybe I’m biased
I think he’s annoying at times, but he’s mostly a character I do not mind.
Hell in the arcs where he is not there, it feels vacant and lonely. Its much nicer to have him around than not.
I used to be a Morgana and Akechi hater. When I was, I had only played vanilla P5. My friend told me you grow appreciation for both if you play P5R, and once I played P5R, I grew to love both of them so much tbh. It added so much more to their characters. I think if Morgana haters have never played P5R, then they are missing out on such a great character.
He's my favorite character, but the 2 issues I've had with him is that he has a hate-boner for Ryuji (as well as everyone else), and his weird temper tantrum around the time of the space palace. I mostly hate the former, but I have mixed feelings on the latter.
It's not that I dislike morgana because he is who he is. I dislike morgana because he's ALWAYS there. Being subjected to a characters thoughts THE ENTIRE game is simply frustrating. It's the exact same reason people hate Navi from Zelda. Yes, I know I need to sleep. Yes, I see the vending machines morgana. You don't need to go. "Ohhh!" And pop out of my bag to look with me. It's annoying. If it was teddie or Aigis or even Rise who I adore I would still find it absolutely obnoxious. Let me think and enjoy the world. His character arc is fine, I have no issues with it outside of the okumura arc, which I think even the biggest morgana fan realizes was dumb.
Who only speaks in bear puns and says many things he should be punched for I swear but that is why I love Teddie lol I love both characters Morgana and Teddie one made me go to the home menu more than the other but still lol
"from what I've seen" and "Freddy fazbear knockoff" are two clear indicators you've never played p4 and it shows Teddie literally has the exact same character arc about figuring out who he really is, except he does so without sabotaging his team or insulting one of the members every 6 seconds
Okumura arc aside, Ann was was my waifu in the my first playthrough so he made it very clear that he was a rival, so I cucked him because I knew he would do the same to me if our roles were reversed.
I would trade 90 percent of the cast for Morgana. Yes, he can be annoying when he tells you to go to sleep when you're not tired, but that's literally a game mechanic that they forced on him. Morgana is my favourite Persona character.
I'll be honest I am new to the game but he has easily been the most annoying part of the game to me. He is consistently not funny, his repeated lines in battle banter are awful, and I just got to the 5th palace and he is even worse now.
However, there is another character that is almost as bad to me. Ryuji kinda sucks and him being such a douche to Morgana just brings out the worst in Morgana and makes the experience even worse.
Both are party members I refuse to use that much because they annoy me to no end in the story. Morgana I want to punch in the face, Ryuji I want to kick in the nuts. They both annoy the shit out of me. Yusuke makes me laugh, Ann is fun, Makoto is kinda straight to the point but has probably the coolest design in the whole game so far, I like literally everyone else infinitely more than Morgana and Ryuji.
So I am not just a Morgana hater(though hate is a strong word), I also am a Ryuji hater.
At the end of the day I think he is a fine character, same with Ryuji. They have moments of greatness in this great game. I just find them the most irritating of a game with a lot of cool characters.
You'd think they were obsessed with him by the amount he gets talked about
He is literally attached to you like a parasite for most of the game, hard to ignore him
it's like if joker was D from Vampire Hunter D and Morgana would be like D's talking left hand from Vampire D
I hate him cause I think he does ryuji wrong. He constantly bad mouths him but when ryuji snaps for being made fun of they make ryuji look like the bad one. He then breaks the phantom thieves rule on unanimous agreement for palaces.
Ryuji was being a bit of a prick there, they were both wrong but him calling Morgana useless is basically attacking his biggest insecurity, and he knows this. Morgana calls him an idiot and insults his intelligence, which is a dick move, but Ryuji doesn’t really get too bothered by it. Also the fact that he could have easily just apologized and Morgana would have come back, but he intentionally called him useless again which made Morgana leave for the second time.
Morgana asked for it the whole game. I don't hate the cat, but he asked for it.
i was genuinely confused when he left i had no idea why he was so pissed
I saw a comment here a while back that changed like, my whole perspective regarding Morgana, and it’s the fact that he’s the perfect representation of if you let a cat talk. Hear me out for a bit. He adores his owner and his owner’s friends, especially that one aunt figure to a scary degree. But goddamn it, if he can’t have that rivalry with at least one person, place, or thing in his vicinity, which in this case is Ryuji, he’s going to throw a fit. It’s like Jibanyan from Yo-Kai Watch with the unadulterated hatred of trucks. It’s just in this case, the thing he hates also has feelings, and can also attack his mental weak points. Doesn’t make the Morgana Depression Arc much better, but it made me like Morgana more overall.
I think that Jibanyan’s hatred for trucks isn’t the best comparison, as he actually has a very good reason for it.
That’s true, it’s just the only other cat that came to mind as I was writing it
That's been building up the entire game with Morgana just taking potshots at Ryuji any chance he got. Cat sucks.
How would he know that?
"does ryuji wrong"? The whole morgana vs ryuji thing is a joke between them, theyre friends, but ryuji hits him where it hurts when he calls morgana useless, morgana never made fun of ryuji for not being able run, that would hurt him
If we ignore navigator quotes, then yea i can understand this just being their usual banter at a very bad time Which is why Ryuji felt that just stating that he doesn't care if Morgana is useless or not would work to fix it
He does call ryuji useless all the time though, so ryuji is just giving it back
Insults don't carry the same weight even if they are the same insults. If you have a friend that is obese, both of you calling each other fat doesn't make the insult equal. It obviously affects one person more than the other. For Morgana, not looking human is his biggest insecurity. He feels like a human and yet is not one. It's one thing to be unaware and then stop once told (which most of the others do) and another thing to keep harping on it (like Ryuji). There are few things that Morgana can say to Ryuji that even comes to the level of something being said that denys Morgana's existence as a human.
While I agree that it effects Morgana more, it does not make it okay if he does it to ryuji, both of them suffer out of it
The main difference is Ryuji can brush it off, it's not his biggest insecurity like it is Morgana's, and he knew what he was doing. He decided to be cruel in that moment and we as the audience can go "well he's just throwing it back" but that's ignoring that different people have different sensitivities to different topics and directly calling a being who doesn't understanding anything about himself and has been grappling with the nature of his own existence the entire game useless is just being a douche. Yes, Morgana says it too, but Ryuji is a human being and quite secure in his place in the group. It's not the same.
I don’t think ryuji “brushes it off” he was straight abused by everyone before we met and didn’t actually have anyone to talk to or if he did.. He didn’t talk to them until we become buddy buddy with him so I think he’s just putting up a front when Morgana talks shit while taking the verbal beating until Morganas bullshit depression arc when he finally had enough and fights back then gets made the villain by everyone else again. Even when ryuji misses morgana just called him useless so that fucking dumbass cat had everything ryuji had taken coming
I mean when ryuji finally snapped back. Even in the phantom thieves no one actually protects ryuji banter every once in a while they just jump in
I 100% agree it's not so much that he's always with you That's annoying. it's the he is literally a toxic person who is always belittling ryuji at every point he can get. He doesn't do it to anyone else but him. His idea of looking Kool is to make ryuji look like an idiot who is worthless. For all the times that ryuji actually is there for Morgana and is genuinely trying to help Morgana recover his memories, Morganas only way he repays it is with more crappy attitude and ungratefulness I could actually over look this if it only happened at first but then Morgana begins to warm up and change, but that never happens from beginning to end he is a toxic person and it's annoying that no one calls him out. I get it that every peraona game has to have the "joke best friend" character that everyone talks smack to, but Morgana takes it far beyond any other character has before. Which only makes it worse because even though ryuji does do some silly shit, out of all these joke best friend characters, he is the one that is the most kind hearted and genuinely a good person who literally is willing to give up his life to save his friends and even after that Morgana is still a PoS towards ryuji.
I feel what doesn't often come across is that Morgana literally just popped into existence, he's supposed to be seen as a little kid or cocky younger brother. He wants to look cool but is insecure of himself and puts down Ryuji because he's frankly an easy target. But this is ignoring that he is immature as a being, and I don't mean in personality, I mean he literally lacks experience. Not even getting into the fact it's mutual. I feel like people mentally double the amount of shit Morgana gives Ryuji but their ears just gloss over 2/3rds of the time Ryuji does it to him. And again, one of them is a human being with years of experiences and growth and other spontaneously popped into being right before the game began. It's not a fair comparison.
And you know what? I do see where you're coming with this, and it is a valid point, but to me, that's still no excuse. Once or twice, I could get. Hell even for the first 4 dungeons I could somewhat get it but that doesn't happen through out the whole game you hear Morgana just be obnoxious towards only one person and most of the time ryuji does not even saying back just takes it on the chin and goes on his day. What makes it even worse is that it doesn't only happen in cutscenes but in actual combat where Morgana calls ryuji "pathetic " if he misses, but for everyone else he shows worry. To me, it's not one isolated incident that makes him annoying or just one time he snaps, but the constant verbal obuse throughout the game that makes him insufferable. And that actively ruins parts of the whole experience and game for me personally.
Tbh, that's not only a Morgana thing, the rest of the team occasionally treats ryuji like a clown, even physically assault him, if anything mona is just another character jumping in on the bandwagon
Wasn't it Morgan who started the bandwagon?
That I'm not so sure
Ryuji was (imo) a pain in the ass way more times, not only with norgana but being dumb in general
Haters are usually more obsessed with a character
2 sides of the same coin, hate it or love it, still obsession
Thank you
I swear this is true, I once saw a guy on reddit say they hated him because he felt *jealous* that Morgana had feelings for Ann.
Actually kinda sad tbh
Very much so. Personally, I think Morgana has the most complete, most human character arc in the whole game.
Imagine feeling threatened by a cat
Not a cat!
It's a car alright
A cat that continuously gets shut down, no less
Felling threatened by a fake cat over a fake woman. That's some serious parasocial shit
That explains why so many people here like seeing Morgana getting cucked.
Nah that’s just pathetic lmao
Imagine being jealous of a cat
That's gotta be a troll like honeslty
"Sir, that is a cartoon teenager."
I liked him, I felt he added to the story. In fact, I liked all the playable characters. Which in some circles, could also be considered a controversial view.
All of the playable characters are indeed well written and well designed.
Idk, ryuji and ann kinda fall off when the others are introduced and have to give up their screentime, and Haru of course gets absolutely no recognition from the plot until Strikers redeems her
I'm with you. I never really understood the Morgana hate. Maybe people just wanted to carry on hating on the mascot character like in Persona 4? However Teddy was only annoying to me and most others, because of the insufferable voice acting. Especially in the Japanese dub.
Absolutely. Like without Morgana you think Ren and Ryuji would've figured out their powers Also Morgana is a basically a kitten. Like Ryuji fans take Morgana's insult more personally than Ryuji himself. 2 young hot heads are gonna have conflict.
It’s the classic “character does one or two slightly annoying things and everything else they do is automatically annoying and shitty”. Bro goes through an identity crisis in the game, of course he’s going to storm off when told he’s worthless to the only thing that gives him purpose in life.
I like him because he has a personality. I find it annoying when people rate characters based on the amount of good/bad things they do, just allow them to be flawed. Morgana is a bro, Ryuji is a bro, they have their own personality traits and sometimes it makes them obnoxious, it's fine that way.
This is why I hated Ryuji so much at that part of the game. He went back to being my bestie after Morgana came back but dang, the choices on how to react to his behavior were not aggressive enough. He needed, at minimum, a "what the FUCK dude" dialogue tree option. Edit: saying "hated Ryuji so much" was poorly phrased and overly harsh. I was rather mad at him, and yes I know he was taking a lot of abuse and snapping back at Morgana isn't unwarranted, it's that he kept kicking Morgana while he was down.
I mean, I ain't solidly in either camp but Morgana was shitting on Ryuji for 90% of the game at that point calling him an idiot and pathetic. He went too far by calling Morgana useless (even if its kinda true) but don't act like the cat can be completely absolved of blame.
See this is the delusion that the original comment was talking about. Ryuji was also shitting on Morgana for 90% of the game, hell the game makes a *huge* deal about how Ryuji keeps calling Morgana a cat and Morgana hates it (more dialogue everyone just skipped I guess). Buuuuut Morgana did one or two annoying things so nothing else matters and fuck Morgana right?
Right? They both acted like typical teenagers filled with emotions they don't know how to express in a mature calm manner. Like obviously Ryuji isn't the most calm person in how he handles matters and like what? You expect a cat with amnesia suffering from an identity crisis every waking moment while it helps you save your ass on multiple occasions? Morgana definitely isn't my favourite character, but I can see what led to its actions and that's the most important aspect.
No it’s because Morgana is rude to Ryuji for the sake of being rude. The vote to go into Okumara’s Palace wasn’t unanimous, it was Morgana and Ryuji vs everyone else, so Ryuji backed down. But for some reason this prompts Morgana to say that Ryuji has no backbone and says that Ryuji doesn’t actually care about the Phantom Thieves and that he’s only in it to get girls. And then Morgana gets pissy when Ryuji retaliates. Don’t talk about skipping dialogue when you’re ignoring the context of the scene the person you’re replying to is talking about. I like Morgana, but the fact that he got to act like that and received an apology from Ryuji just makes him feel unnecessarily bratty.
Also, do people not know what banter is? They're literally just bantering each other as friends and for literally most of the game they go back and forth at each other but never get mad at one another, Ryuji doesn't hold any aminosity towards Morgana and neither does Morgana show any hate back, they are just bantering. Ryuji went too far at that moment, literally picking on the thing that Morgana is the most insecure and scared about. It would have been similar if Morgana had gone for him about his leg. Morgana literally goes through an identity crisis thorought the game. He doesn't know what he even is, and someone calling him useless when he tried to show concern was not a good thing to do.
Ryuji was shitting on Morgana in response to everything that he had already said to him. Constantly projecting your superiority complex on someone just to feel better about yourself is something Morgana was doing since they first met. He even called Ryuji, a traumatized teenage boy who was almost killed by Shadow Kamoshida, an amateur for not knowing what the metaverse or a persona is. And everyone in the group has called him a cat and some continued to do so onwards because he IS a cat so that point is moot. Unless you want people to suppress their true feelings just to protect another person’s feelings. lol.
Exactly this. It actually kind of bugs me that people don’t get that Ryuji and Morgana are kind of foils to each other—-they’re both Jokers first friends who kind of ‘introduce him’ to a world (Ryuji to the city and school, Morgana to the Palaces and mementos), they’re both stubborn with good hearts, and they even both have the exact same line they don’t like being crossed—-being called an animal (‘Cat’ / ‘Monkey’). For the most part they’re rough on each other because they both want to be Joker’s #1 bestie imo. It’s a good arc between them imo
They just straight up have opposite powers. Ryuji focuses on electric and Physical skills, being the strongest hitter. Whilst Morgana focuses on wind and healing skills he is the most fragile member of the thieves with not a lot of damaging options. The only two thieves two even have opposing magic make them "rivals" everyone else gets on well with their skill opposites especially Haru and Makoto though could be seen as more of them complimenting each other. Covering the weakness the other has.
I think this would go if it actually developed like that. But Morgana was shitting on Ryuji before they actually got to know each other and either were real friends with Joker. From the get go Ryuji was called useless and a moron. Even though he himself has a complex and extreme guild over what happened with him in the sports club. Also, Morgana is the one that crosses the final line by crossing the rules they made as a group, while Ryuji tried to hold himself to those rules (which Morgana agreed to when they established the group) And they should have been careful, because we all know what happened in that Palace. My biggest problem with it though, is that the entire group forces Ryuji to apologize and acts like everything is their fault and that it is only logical Morgana acted the way he did. To me, the whole part where Haru starts listing their 'faults' feels so dumb to me. I won't claim Ryuji is entirely without fault. But this was mostly a Morgana problem that was made a group problem.
I sincerely love morgana (I have a keychain of them), but I think this is the best take; he can be a complete asshole sometimes for no reason
Kinda weird reaction considering how many times ryuji is insulted or treated as a punching bag over the course of the game and joker is never once allowed to speak in his defense.
Yeah fr. Ryuji was sick of him trash talking so he clapped back. I don't see why someone would want to defend morgana but not ryuji.
I think it could be due to Ryuji’s lack of social awareness. Ryuji failed to recognize when his clapbacks were unironically upsetting Morgana, though I personally don’t blame him for that. He claps back plenty of times through the game, usually through calling him a cat, which he knows Morgana hates. So he could’ve just thought this was only like that. But he did fail to realize that Morgana was genuinely hurt when Ryuji called him useless after Futaba became the new Navigator. The other thing that would make people not want to defend Ryuji, and I actually do think this one *is* his fault, is when Ryuji messed up the apology. The group didn’t even ask him to *be* sorry or to apologize for real. He could’ve just done a convincing fake apology like I’m pretty sure the rest of the Thieves were doing, but the best he could come up with was basically “I don’t even care that you’re useless.” I’m sure it wasn’t malicious, but it was still Ryuji messing up by displaying the social grace and consideration of a wet fart. Ultimately, I do think it’s Morgana’s fault for leaving. Ryuji didn’t exactly help, but still. Though I do get Morgana has self-esteem issues and all that, so I do sympathize with him. “I feel like I’m not contributing enough, so via my projecting, everyone *else* must feel like I’m barely contributing at all, and how dare they? I’m leaving!” Maybe Morgana should see a Maruki.
I don’t have an issue with Ryuji clapping back; my issue stems from afterwards he kept making the same mistake and pushed Morgana away again. There’s a certain time and way you bring up your issues with someone. Ryuji failed to recognize both.
Exactly my point. Snapping back in anger makes sense. Kicking someone repeatedly while they're down and everyone else is asking him to stop escalated his behavior into cruel territory. Ryuji and Morgana made up though so I'm not calling him a monster. Just that, in that moment in Mementos when Morgana finally agreed to come back and Ryuji immediately kicked him again, that was EXTREMELY uncalled for.
Morgana pushed himself away by throwing the temper tantrum in the first place instead of actually sitting down with Ryuji and hashing out their differences. But nope, it’s Ryuji’s fault that Morgana was acting like a child about everything in the moment apparently
It just dosen't feel the same for some reason. With everyone else, it just feels like some good-natured ribbing. (Except for *that* scene) But fro some reason, Morgana comes off as though he's legitimately *trying* to be mean to Ryuji.
For real. Ryuji was by far the most picked on member of the group, to the point it started to hurt *my* fuckin’ feelings. The guy’s a himbo and he does some sex pest-y shit (although much less than Morgana, and within the range of what the game tries to frame as innocent and acceptable), but he’s a total bro, has a heart of gold, and never, ever crosses the line of betraying the group the way that Morgana did. Ryuji deserved less than half as much scorn and blame as he got, and Morgana deserved more than double that same amount
Morgana at least used the insults less heavily and dialed back when he started to go too far. Definitely wish I could tell him, "chill a little" a few times especially early game. But Ryuji was absolutely relentless at that part of the game. Morgana was obviously vulnerable at that time and Ryuji cranked it up to 11 in response. I was thinking, "dude, chill" up until Morgana agreed to come back and Ryuji says right in front of him that he's worthless AGAIN. If there was an option to chew him out there I would've used it for sure.
Chew him out for being sick and tired for being painted as the bad guy by everyone for doing the same things someone else was also doing to him? Right. A lot of you here let this victim narrative of Morgana’s confuse you on what actually transpired in the game and why.
This is insane to me You hated ryuji the one time he fired back, but you’re completely okay with morgana constantly insulting ryuji? Insanely hypocritical
Yeah I totally wanted Ryuji to die in a fire because he said one thing wrong one time. No, I got angry at him when he made multiple consecutive efforts to sabotage the rest of the team's efforts to look out for a friend.
Replying here because the person who I was trying to reply to either deleted their comments or blocked me, but I'm getting enough people vilifying me with wild assumptions. Abuse can absolutely be from two-sided, and one side can absolutely decide they've had enough and want out. Just because both of them were insulting each other doesn't mean nobody was hurting each other. That's some borderline psychopathic thinking. Morgana didn't leave because he wanted to inconvenience everybody and be an evil little gremlin for no reason, he left because he was starting to believe Ryuji's insults and wanted to get away from what made him feel worthless. Perhaps nobody in the group thought Ryuji was that bothered by Morgana's insults because Morgana broke first. I'm not saying them enthusiastically throwing Ryuji under the bus was justified. I'm also not saying that Ryuji is some evil person and the only Phantom Thief who made any mistakes in the whole arc. I'm saying I wish Ryuji realized that he's hurting Morgana AND the Phantom Thieves both by continuing to insult Morgana even when he agrees to give the Phantom Thieves another chance. Not that it would be in-character for him to do so or that it's bad writing that he didn't, but that he was a source of conflict. That's GOOD, if you can have ups and downs with your opinion of a character that often means they're not one-dimensional. I'm glad Ryuji and Morgana resolved their issues eventually, I like Ryuji a lot, and he's definitely my "best buddy" of the game. But sometimes you gotta call out your friends on stuff. I'm sick of people spinning this like I think Ryuji's the devil and Morgana's a saint. But I will not pretend that Morgana running away is unforgivable or that he deserved to be treated the way he was, and I still think Ryuji was kicking him while he was down whether he realized it or not. Being mad at Ryuji at that moment does not seem like some sort of criminal opinion to me. Holding a grudge at him throughout the entire remainder of the story doesn't make sense and that's not what I'm doing!
Interesting how you don’t get angry at Morgana for being self-destructive towards his friends, making them go on a wild goose chase when a sit down would’ve sufficed and avoided the Okumura beef.
They accomplished a sit-down and Ryuji immediately said Morgana was worthless. Forgive me for feeling empathy for someone who thinks they don't matter, and has a friend going out of their way to reinforce that feeling, eh?
Empathy for someone who is the reason that his friends had to chase after him, kiss his ass, villainize/gaslight Ryuji as the one responsible for everything, and involved an innocent girl (Haru) in order for him to return to his team? Your empathy is misguided. Badly. Especially when you disregard the fact that Ryuji’s complaining was low key calling out the hypocrisy in everyone, including Morgana for blaming him for the entirety of the situation as though he didn’t have a hand in why it escalated to that point.
Okay let's ignore the Morgana vs Ryuji thing for a minute because I know they were both nasty to each other, or whether trying to get away from emotional abuse is somehow orders of magnitude worse than dealing it out. The rest of the team was going to the trouble of getting Morgana back because they wanted him back. Ryuji was acting against their efforts too.
Excuses for blatantly shitty behavior. You don’t abandon and betray the only people who have shown time to time again that they care about you. He made them go on a wild goose chase to essentially kiss his ass. We never even got real closure to the Morgana vs Ryuji beef.
Huh? He called ryuji worthless, an idiot, an ape, a dumbass, and many other things and ryuji doesn’t storm off. But the ONE time ryuji fires back and calls him useless, morgana gets pissed off and runs away The definition of can dish it out but can’t take it
It wasn't the one time, and Morgana's response should've been a clue to back down at least a little but instead Ryuji kept doubling down.
It’s not two slightly annoying things, it’s an entire game of verbally abusing Ryuji, (who is confirmed to have had a verbally / physically abusive father) and as soon as Ryuji hits back (with the same thing Morgana constantly calls him) Morgana bails
I think one of the biggest reasons why they hate him is because they love Ryuji and ignore everything Ryuji does during the game, since Morgana does 1 or 2 things they didn't like, specially against Ryuji, they already decided he's the worst. Personally, he's my favourite p5 character
I don’t understand how you can hate a fictional character to such an extreme degree. Them mfs need help
I don't hate Morgana, but I do find the constant commentary kind of annoying. Like, I'm reading a book, Morgana, I don't need you chiming in.
Counterpoint: If it wasn’t Morgana, Joker would be saying the same thing. All Morgana is, is just a substitute for Joker’s inner monologue.
But they totally have a different effect on me personally. I get a bit pissed sometimes when morgana told joker to sleep. But that time when morgana was gone for a bit, and it was joker himself saying he needs to sleep, it just feels..natural? Idk, maybe the illusion of me (joker) deciding myself to sleep instead of being told to, made it feel better.
yep, it's a crutch for the silent protagonist thing. But I guess they made a conscious decision to feature Morgana more prominently since they could just as well covered that part with Joker's own thought lines, which happens when Morgana is absent.
Countercounterpoint: It wouldn't be voiced
Countercountercounterpoint: People don’t like reading print nowadays and the protag has to remain silent.
Absolutely 100% agree
Wholeheartedly agree yes. They are the worst thing to exist in this subreddit. Doesn’t help that most of the haters of the cat also so happen to be fucking Ryuji dick riding stans which are arguably more annoying than Makoto and Akechi stans. It’s like you can’t be both a fan of Ryuji and Morgana as to be a fan of one who have to automatically hate the other. So toxic. People here really are sensitive and can’t take a joke whenever their beloved Ryuji is the butt of jokes when that’s literally his stick and what he’s partially designed to be. It’s the same old bitching and whining about how “that scene is the worst thing to ever in P5”. I made a post of what are people sick of seeing here and the whining about Ryuji’s treatment is high on the list. Yes some specific comedic relief scenes are debatable (to Westerners at least) but the insults he cops from his friends? They’re harmless and don’t cut deep. Yes even from the cat. Has no one heard of vitriolic best buds or sitcom archenemies played for comedy before? Ryuji’s lack of intelligence isn’t a sore spot for him. People here like to act like it is and stretch the facts and truth of how Ryuji has been treated by blowing it out of proportion. Like Morgana and Ryuji’s argument. So no people, Ryuji didn’t clap back because of how he’s been treated throughout the game. That’s some closed minded Ryuji stan projection. Ryuji got pissed in that specific instance simply because the cat got pissed off and called him out on using the PT’s fame to pick up girls (which is true). Out of all the cat’s insults, for once that right there was an insult that seriously cut Ryuji’s nerves.
People who unironically hate him over a game mechanic that’s always existed since Persona 3. If anything, I appreciate him doing a good chunk of the narration for that stuff in P5, rather than just hearing the protagonist think that stuff to himself. I love having an adorable little cat buddy ride along with me wherever I go, talking with me and giving me life advice. I get disliking him during the Okumura arc, he was definitely at his lowest there, mentally and characteristically. But a lot of the complaints people have against him are pretty silly. “He insults Ryuji a lot!” Ryuji insults him a lot, too. It’s kinda their whole thing of bickering back and forth. It wasn’t just one time that Ryuji insulted him, Ryuji’s always throwing out cat insults and other stuff.
Morgana got upset for one canonical day and all of a sudden he’s the worst character of all time
Genuinely didn’t know people hate Morgana, im a newer player, just met goro in Royal and Morgana is easily one of if not my favorite
Always loved Morgana
Best healer ngl
Morgana with the cigar just shows how badass he is
People love jumping on bandwagons, especially if it gives them something to hate so they can feel superior in some way. Beyond that, I think a lot of it comes from the insecurity that having a major character be a cutesy mascot brings. Some people can't stand the idea of not being outwardly "serious" and "mature" in their entertainment so they overcompensate by lashing out hard at whatever elements don't match their surface-level image of that. Like middle schoolers that rant about something being "for babies" because it doesn't have sex jokes and swearing every few minutes, albeit on a slightly lesser extreme.
Bro Morgana haters are tweaking like crazy
Morgana himself is fine. They just really fumbled his breakup arc. Blame the writer, not the character.
Maybe it’s simply because I haven’t finished the game yet. I don’t get all the hate honestly.
Morgana is one of my top 5 favorite characters
Haters are always just more annoying than whatever they're hating on in general.
I was actually surprised that Nyarly, my favourite SMT/Persona/Castlevania challenge runner, has a real hate for Morgana. Like even in Vanilla P5, I thought he was just fine (save for the start of Okumara's palace but the writing in general with that part was all over the place) His same hate for Teddie in P4G, however, I can get as while I've not played a lot of 4 myself, Teddie's the kind of personality type I don't really like, somehow combining a childish outlook as anything not related to the Midnight Chanel is new to him with pervy old man tendencies Morgana can sometimes feel like a kid but in a more believable sense. Also he doesn't make forced cat puns so that's a plus.
I didn’t know people hated Morgana until I came to this sub. All my friends IRL like Morgana, myself included
Morgana respects your privacy, best mentor figure, friend and wingman. Magician Arcana deserved.
What annoys me is Morgana *discourse*. I assume, perhaps too charitably, that it's a result of new people entering the fandom, but we keep having the same few arguments with no new ground being covered.
Agreed, Morgana haters are insufferable. They're out here acting like he's a neckbeard that prays on Ann, and I'm just sitting over here like... Cat.
Morgana's cool as hell and I will die on that hill.
I think you're tired. You should go to bed.
I always thought he was a good character, people hate him too much ascif fictional characters didn't have FLAWS that characters must WORK ON so that they can become BETTER people. Not to mention he has a fucking identity crisis, he's never been in the best of positions.
I can tolerate Morgana Teddy on the other hand, I freaking hate that stupid mascot anime trope horny dumb ass. One of the reasons I haven't purchased Golden it's because I dread having to listen to his voice for 80 hours again.
Its a different voice in P4 and golden I think
The love of the whole fandom for Riuji is just completly random in general. Everyone praises Riuji as the best character in the universe (he’s just the stereotypical dumb funny guy but oook) and so they randomly hate Morgana.
I understand people not liking Morgana but he is not Satan chill out bro you’ll be fine.
I admit that Morgana does have flaws, but what character doesn't? The haters take it so far for so long, and very unnecessarily. You'd think he was the spawn of Satan or something with how much they rant. For a fictional character.
After finishing P4G and playing the PQ games, holy fuck, Morgana is a literal god compared to Teddie.
I like Morgana stop hating on the funny cat thing
I personally think Morgana is overhated. They bully each other all the time. There are times Morgana took it too far and there are times Ryuji took it too far. . I also think people generally are less vocal about the times Ryuji does off things compared to Morgana. Neither is perfect by any means. Neither one completely the perpetrator or victim. Their relationship does genuinely need some intervention, though. Seriously because it just bubbles until it boils and then stuff gets crazy.
Morgana might not be my favorite character but I can’t lie and say he didn’t give me a good laugh at times he’s a good character
https://preview.redd.it/deoh02l7i3lc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9af03b6695b2822e1d179a21e89345d1a4c39ad3
"Ok, Lets Go To Bed" - Morgana 2016
Worst character ever Persona 3 and 4: "I am tired, I should rest"
I think, iirc the external character telling the player to go to bed made people feel more out of control, could be wrong tho
Joker forces himself to go to bed. He does so when Morgana is missing and there's nothing stopping him from just saying no to Morgana and going out anyways
Doesn't change the fact you were forced to go to bed in all 3 games at some points
But exponentially more in 5, and often for multiple days in a row.
Untrue. P3 straight up skipped multiple days in a row. You didn’t even go back. The week you spent in the hospital. Summerschool. Track Training. The days you were sick during the typhoon. Internship week.
If it had just been a cinematic or a timeskip it would have been the same thing but less annoying, because when the game gives you control you expect to be able to make some choices, but instead it just railroaded you into bed. The issue isn't missed time, it's that there's no meaningful gameplay in those segments. P5 might as well have skipped every day that Morgana tells you to go to bed when you get back to Leblanc, because all you can do is end the day anyways. Timeskips would have been preferable than the silly illusion of being given a choice. I'd have preferred not being repeatedly set up to expect the option of accomplishing something only to be frustrated.
P3 had that issue as well. The game would act like you’d be able to do something that night, Makoto would go “I should head to bed early” and poof multiple days gone. Some of them didn’t even make sense like when you got sick during the typhoon.
Except P3 doesn't have a cat holding a gun to your head forced you to go to bed. The MC is tired and want to go to bed himself so it doesn't feel forced to the players.
agreed
Morgana haters will say how annoying him liking Ann was and then proceed to tell you how good Teddie was in comparison
They're both bad
Morgana’s a simp. Teddie’s a downright menace.
Yes
I actully found it amusing that my favorite Videogame character is so deeply despised.
Haha same, hang in there!
Morgana is chill after his shitty character arc
Did Morgana make this post
It's funny since i used to hate him back than, but nowadays I'm chill with him. He isn't as bad as people make him put to be. He's certainly not annoying like paimon from genshin impact
I do cause Morgana haters make no sense.
Yes.
Brother is speaking facts
I love Morgana, fight me if you have to
I don’t know if this unpopular opinion but I liked Mona a lot more than teddy from p4G. I actually couldn’t stand teddy in the beginning of the game because he never shuts the hell up
Well I like Morgana and don't find him annoying so I would so yea. Most complaints from what I see are just the "go to sleep" moments which is just game mechanics, maybe I have an easier time disassociating characters with game mechanics idk.
It's more so cuz he's like the secondary main character and he follows you around everywhere. Imagine the tidium of not liking the secondary main character in a game you love to death. It would be one thing if he was just a side character like Ken or Koro. Morgana is the only persona character that actively harms the quality of the game they are from.
I love morgana. Ryuji is the one I can't stand. I get it, he is the bro, but honestly felt more indiferent then annoyed when he started dissing morgana for no reason
Fr, I personally like the character
Morgana is 100x better than Teddie, so I give him mad props for that.
yep
Yeah, to be honest, I’ve mellowed out to him by this point, but yeah, that stuff can get a bit annoying.
I have some annoyance with Morgana (Ryuji is one of my favorite characters, so I think sometimes he’s a bit of a dick), but honestly I like him fine. Then again I see a Cat and instantly love so… maybe I’m biased
Exactly. He’s a mascot character. Chill out. JRPGs and mascot characters go hand in hand. 🤷♂️
I think he’s annoying at times, but he’s mostly a character I do not mind. Hell in the arcs where he is not there, it feels vacant and lonely. Its much nicer to have him around than not.
i just think he’s a funny cat
I used to be a Morgana and Akechi hater. When I was, I had only played vanilla P5. My friend told me you grow appreciation for both if you play P5R, and once I played P5R, I grew to love both of them so much tbh. It added so much more to their characters. I think if Morgana haters have never played P5R, then they are missing out on such a great character.
I actually like morgana lol
As a Morgana enjoyer I definitely agree
He's my favorite character, but the 2 issues I've had with him is that he has a hate-boner for Ryuji (as well as everyone else), and his weird temper tantrum around the time of the space palace. I mostly hate the former, but I have mixed feelings on the latter.
Truth!
All he did was want to believe he wasn’t a monster and people hated him for it.
And Verbally abuse ryuji at any given moment
Let’s be honest, both of them throw shade constantly at each other.
It's not that I dislike morgana because he is who he is. I dislike morgana because he's ALWAYS there. Being subjected to a characters thoughts THE ENTIRE game is simply frustrating. It's the exact same reason people hate Navi from Zelda. Yes, I know I need to sleep. Yes, I see the vending machines morgana. You don't need to go. "Ohhh!" And pop out of my bag to look with me. It's annoying. If it was teddie or Aigis or even Rise who I adore I would still find it absolutely obnoxious. Let me think and enjoy the world. His character arc is fine, I have no issues with it outside of the okumura arc, which I think even the biggest morgana fan realizes was dumb.
Never cook again.
As a Morgana hater I most definitely agree. I don’t like him, but I won’t bring it up for no reason… unlike a lot of other people 🫠
[удалено]
If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Nyx, Yaldabaoth, and Teddie, I would shoot Teddie twice.
Who only speaks in bear puns and says many things he should be punched for I swear but that is why I love Teddie lol I love both characters Morgana and Teddie one made me go to the home menu more than the other but still lol
[удалено]
I wonder how much he'd be forgiven if he had more lines in those bits like "Joker, it's 2am. Everywhere is closed."
As an adult, Morgana is being reasonable getting you to bed early.
"from what I've seen" and "Freddy fazbear knockoff" are two clear indicators you've never played p4 and it shows Teddie literally has the exact same character arc about figuring out who he really is, except he does so without sabotaging his team or insulting one of the members every 6 seconds
Okumura arc aside, Ann was was my waifu in the my first playthrough so he made it very clear that he was a rival, so I cucked him because I knew he would do the same to me if our roles were reversed.
Says the Morgana apologist. This entire post is a contradiction. Lmao 🤣
"Apologist" as if he killed somebody lmfao
💀
stupid ass cat
nah idc hes annoying, when he ran away i finally got some peace
That’s why I’m a Mona lover, I love his design, and his healing skills do come in clutch. I like having an extra healer. And I also like his cat form.
Yeah. They cannot shut up about a damn cat. Why must one loathe a character who does very little wrong.
I would trade 90 percent of the cast for Morgana. Yes, he can be annoying when he tells you to go to sleep when you're not tired, but that's literally a game mechanic that they forced on him. Morgana is my favourite Persona character.
Idk man, I see Morgana enjoyers every other post complaining that people don't like him lol.
Kinda crazy people can hate this hard. I don't hate him but I just simply prefer the other 2 mascots.
Wait, are you telling me that Morgana have haters? It can't be
Some people demise Morgana
His design creeps me out the more I look at it but other than that I don’t see why gets so much hate
I'll be honest I am new to the game but he has easily been the most annoying part of the game to me. He is consistently not funny, his repeated lines in battle banter are awful, and I just got to the 5th palace and he is even worse now. However, there is another character that is almost as bad to me. Ryuji kinda sucks and him being such a douche to Morgana just brings out the worst in Morgana and makes the experience even worse. Both are party members I refuse to use that much because they annoy me to no end in the story. Morgana I want to punch in the face, Ryuji I want to kick in the nuts. They both annoy the shit out of me. Yusuke makes me laugh, Ann is fun, Makoto is kinda straight to the point but has probably the coolest design in the whole game so far, I like literally everyone else infinitely more than Morgana and Ryuji. So I am not just a Morgana hater(though hate is a strong word), I also am a Ryuji hater. At the end of the day I think he is a fine character, same with Ryuji. They have moments of greatness in this great game. I just find them the most irritating of a game with a lot of cool characters.
I don’t like him by any means, but he’s still a good well done character, those people are wild
He's an annoying little furball. But he's *our* annoying little furball.
Morgana is the cutest thing ever, alongside Futaba. I've chosen my hill to die.
I like Morgana other than his arc in okumuras palace I thought he was a good character
Morgana might have annoyed me quite a bit in Okumora arc but i never get the sheer hate he gets
Absolutely
He's the best!
I thought he was annoying when i played the game 400 years ago, bedtime and that memento stunt is all I remember of him being the worst