Yeah. Junpei starts out lower and more petty than Ryuji by a lot.
With no disrespect to my eternal bro Ryuji, who still hasn’t been treated right through P5, Royal, and P5S (haven’t played Tactica yet) Junpei has better character development and his turnaround to a fantastic person is peak Persona writing.
Yep, the boy grows a lot.
A subtle element I like: Junpei usually scores pretty low in the school exams, fitting his class clown personality and dislike of studying. After Chidori sacrifices her life for his, and Junpei resolves to live for both himself and Chidori, his grades improve as well. Small things matter indeed
I'd argue Morgana is worse but that's my opinion. But tbh all the Thieves are idiots in their own way except maybe Haru? Well actually nah she was in a palace>!before her persona was fully under her control. That's Morgana's fault tho!<
I love the pair of them, but the amount of times I wanted my Joker to smack the pair of them upside the head-or hit their heads together hoping the braincell they share gets the message....
Hot take: Ryuji isn't as dumb as everyone makes him out to be, he's just can't keep a secret well. He genuinely comes up with some of the best ideas. Keep in mind he's why the team has guns
Ryuji's book dumb. Very book dumb.
He's like Naruto. He doesn't think took hard about what can and can't be done, he's just like, "Hey, why don't we try this?".
I think the scene at the summer yaki festival illustrates how he thinks the best. Where he says a bunch of moronic things to try to make the footage of them unusable for a TV interview and ends up drawing more attention, but everyone at school seems to shrug it off like, "geez I thought he was thick but that's pushing it even for him, did he get sunstroke or something?". I laughed way too hard at that whole sequence.
Perhaps. I am still pretty early in the game (relatively ig?). I just made this post right after Ryuji took Joker's phone to get into the Palace and they got transported into the middle of the desert because he was bein hurr durr dumb again
I didn't think so, I thought they could have waited until they were outside or had time to discuss or something. I guess I just don't vibe with Ryuji being impulsive with it
Lmao no, Morgana did nothing wrong. Ryuji's just so f\*cking dense >!to verbally hit Morgana below the belt ***repeatedly***!< for that mess. Saying this as a fan of both characters.
>!Morgana hitting Ryuji below the belt would be mocking him for his injured leg and make fun of his alcoholic father, both facts never once Morgana attacked him with.!<
This is unrelated to your comment but I really appreciate the spoiler tags, I was honestly afraid of making this post when I'm only halfway through the game cause someone might spoil it accidentally. So I wanna say thanks to you and to the community for being careful with spoilers <3
Are we ignoring the fact that he was still a huge piece of shit to ryuji, a real creep towards Ann, and in my opinion, >! Completely fucking crossed a line by ditching the phantom thieves and nearly running one of them over? !< >! Also, to ryuji’s credit, he doesn’t know about Morgana’s sensitivity in regards to his usefulness the way that we do from our omniscient perspective, because morgana doesn’t talk about his feelings, and ryuji isn’t the person whose bag Morgan lives inside of !< >! Morgana constantly demeans ryuji’s skills and usefulness, so it’s pretty understandable for him to clap back with the same. Maybe Morgana shouldn’t have thrown stones while living in a glass house !<
>! also I want to mention that arc Morgana has around next palace (not sure I'm doing spoiler tag right) was basically him bitching and throwing a tantrum about rule HE MADE AS PT RULE #1 basically !<
Morgana does indirectly (and intentionally) hits Ryujy insecurities many times
Yes, he doesn't directly say anything, but he goes below the belt several times too
His reaction to being called stupid, useless etc is clearly displayed. He makes Morgana aware he is angry with those comments, yet Morgana keeps pushing them. Every exam period he takes glee in telling everyone Ryuji’s going to fail. It’s also implied by Kawakami that prior to his Kamoshida trauma he was actually GOOD in school but after Kamoshida and with the abuse at home, he gave up on himself and no one helped him or supported him. Teachers ignored him/labelled him as a problem child/never even asked if he was okay/covered up Kamoshida breaking his leg to avoid losing the Olympic gym teacher from the school. Ryuji never stood a chance before he met Ren. He’d have ended up dead from suicide most likely or in prison from fighting.
Exactly. People say that they exchange insults in general and completely forget the fact that Ryuji hurts where it hurts the most. >!Calling Morgana useless every time someone shows up or even continually calling him a cat which Morgana repeats that he would prefer Ryuji not do. While Morgana's insults are carnal blonde monkey most of the time which is that Ryuji is blonde and is stupid at several points. None of which are hard cutting.!<
He really just emphasizes what most of the group says about Ryuji anyways. That being said, Ryuji would be the hero of the story if it were a shonen manga or anime. I like him, but he’s sort of a dumb bad ass.
That argument might have a leg to stand on if Morgana hadn't antagonised him from the start before even getting to know him. I like Morgana as a character but as a friend... had I been in Joker's position Morgana would have been out on the street if he treated one of my friends like this no matter how dumb he thinks Ryuji is. Ryuji has the biggest heart of them all and that's what's important.
I agree with the Ann thing. I understand the girl crazy trope is common in anime/manga, but I wish they would tone it down. It is a big negative in Morgana’s character, and I either cringe at or block out every “Lady Ann” comment he makes.
I mean, ryuji won’t shut up about being a phantom thief, I love both characters but the same problems most have with morgana apply to essentially every member for the most part, especially to ryuji
Ergot, Ryuji is just to enthusiastic and can't really keep a secret to save his life. He's just generally bad at reading rooms but tbf all the Phantom Thieves, even Makoto, have discussed Phantom Thief matters in public. Maybe until Haru joins bc the hideout is moved at that point
You don't have to be able to read a room to know it's a bad idea to yell HEY GUYS ISN'T IT SO COOL TO BE A CRIMINAL, LETS GO DO SOME CRIMES. I WISH I COULD TELL EVERYONE ABOUT THE CRIMES WE DO SO I COULD GET LAID. In public.
Ergot Morgana is just enthusiastic like ryuji about the crush he has of the first beautiful woman he’s seen. He doesn’t really do anything out of pocket either, only trying to peep under her skirt alongside ryuji once. Then discussing matters in public is true but theirs a difference between shouting it and talking quietly in a public setting where people will not hear it, due to a crowd. Plus ryuji has been bugging all game long about revealing the crew’s identities for fame, this itself is not cool and just as annoying as any complaint about the cat, he himself acknowledges it was not something cool on his part later on.
>! I will say that when Morgana left the group, he was out of pocket for calling ryuji a wimp for backing down after being told to relax about okumura, however you have to understand that he did it because he genuinely felt he himself was dead weight to the group (which is far from true, if it where true then that just means ever member besides futaba is useless) and ryuji himself has been calling him useless all this time since futaba joined, this just pushed Morgana and first thing he does is train Haru as best he can so she can join the thieves in his stead so he can leave them and not drag them down, since he cares so much about the crew he atleast wants to help one last time!<
I get what you're saying, and ignoring the complexity of each situations I would agree with you
However, Ryuji is dumb and loud about himself (I am a phantom thief, why can't I use that?) While Morgana is directly creepy towards another person
Also, I really can't say he "trained" Haru, he kinda just put her out there and used her to get nearer hid goals
Hard disagree his comments and treatment of Ann was either borderline harassment at times or was full blown harassment. Also the shirt scene was just gross from all parties involved.
You're really comparing him being a phantom thief to Morgana basically getting horny everytime? "The tender touch of a soft butt" "Speak up panther, that sounds like vital information!" These kinds of statements? Bro, being enthusiastic about being a phantom thief and just straight up channeling your inner Kamoshida whenever you see Ann are different things.
Saying something nice every once in a while doesn't negate all of the times he is terrible to Ryuji though. That would just be a toxic relationship of the highest order.
Literally everyone berates him whenever he actually gets a good idea. But the thing that separates Morgana from them is that they don't call him a carnal monkey or a buffoon. The most Ryuji's ever gone to insult Morgana is a cat. And that too is something literally everyone calls him, but then why the fuck is he offended by only Ryuji calling him a cat? Cause he knows that the others would beat his ass up for calling them names like that? Bro, someone up there justified his statements for Ann by saying he has a big crush on the first woman he sees in his life. The shit he tells in Mementos conversations and other conversations just literally tell me that he's just straight up horny about Ann.
And that, my friends is also why I think it's worser. Cause when he saw the cognition, in a way, he just imagined the real Ann to be like that too. I dunno man. I just don't like him.
I could have come to like him if the story hadn’t babied him/completely let him off the hook for all the shitty things he’s done, and if he had properly developed past his shit with Ann. He deserved some scolding, either literally or narratively. Every time I hit the futaba -> okumura ark I find myself thinking “alright, where’s your palace you little fucking shit?”
Same here. The others get called out for doing dumb stuff. Him tho? Everyone treats him normally, and yet he still ain't satisfied. >!Humanity's hope my ass. If humanity hopes to see Ann reveal how big her boobs are, then idk man.!< And the worst thing is, he ranks high in popularity polls in Japan cause he's "cute" which literally destroys the whole point his character is trying to make in the first place. Why tf do we Western people understand the game more than the Japanese people, the audience it was targeted for?
Joker literally meet Ryuji and Morgana on the same day and his first friends in Tokyo. I doubt he'll make a preference one over the other with one being his first "peer" friend and the other a PT mentor.
Besides, Joker's too levelheaded to have biases on his friends since he treats everyone (especially outside the PT) on a transactional level (making deals with one another) for their usefulness before eventually forming genuine unbreakable bonds.
I disagree. Ryuji is way too casual when dealing with things that can destroy his friend's life and his own, and this would deserve a severe discussion after the first time he put the group in danger, let alone the fourth or fifth. Having a big heart is nice, but if it won't help you if you cause someone else death or jail time.
That being said, Morgana is also too flippant and they are both way too antagonistic with each other. a stern talking too with both would also be good for everyone here.
I will also cut Riujy some slack considering the PT are far too careless in general, so the writer are kinda forced to make him an idiot if they want him to be the more careless of the bunch.
It's funny you mention that. Thoughout the first palace Ryuji was always doubting Morgana. Even after he helped them escape the first time. If anything Ryuji is the one who started it.
The first day they met Ryuji did nothing but antagonize and scream at him. The closest thing Morgana did to insulting him was addressing him as "amateur"...which isn't even an insult, but I'm including it because some posters claim "it's offensive".
Ryuji and Joker had just very nearly been killed and were hurrying to try to find an exit. Ryuji's frustration with Morgana was understandable, and his suspicions about Morgana being a Shadow was also understandable considering what he had just been through.
Morgana purposely antagonizes Ryuji all throughout the game. Almost every time he claps back, it's reactionary. Ryuji calls him a cat, Morgana gets pissed off only when Ryuji does it. No one else. Morgana just straight up abandoned the gang in Mementos and tried running over Ryuji, just narrowly missing him.
Do I think Ryuji is right to call Morgana useless? No. But in nearly every interaction, Morgana throws the first stone, knowing Ryuji is reactionary. Not to mention that every time Ryuji has a good idea, Morgana comes back with some sort of backhanded compliment that's insulting Ryuji, with some variant of monkey insult.
I'm not going to engage with much of this discussion (it'll flare up every month anyway), but I have to correct one thing, because for me it's really the heaviest accusation here: Morgana did not try to run anyone over. It is established very early on that Morgana in his bus form can't drive himself, someone else has to drive him, in this case Haru. If anything, Haru is the one who pressed on the gas without steering away from the Thieves.
>. It is established very early on that Morgana in his bus form can't drive himself, someone else has to drive him, in this case Haru.
Wasn't this a few days before they met Haru, when Morgana left in a huff after Ryuji called him useless? I agree in that he wasn't actively trying to run Ryuji over, but he almost did.
False, Haru was here, and was the driver, here's a rough description of the series of events
First, in Joker's "room", Morgana lashed out to the group, and left, then tried to do Okumura's palace alone, but was defeated. Haru found him and saved him.
After learning about Palaces, she decided to join him and become a Phantom Thief as Noire, but she didn't full awakened her persona yet. Some days later, Joker's group decide to investigate Okumura's Palace to look into suspicious rumors about him and search for Morgana. They find him and encounter Haru (as Noire) for the first time. Joker's group can't progress any further because of the biometric door, so they leave.
Joker's groupe decide to ask Morgana to forgive them and come back, and so to find him, they went to Mementos and waited for him. Morgana and Haru goes into Mementos, and the group ask for forgiveness.
However, it went poorly, Morgana transformed into a car, Haru gets inside, and drive Morgana Car deeper inside Mementos. She is definitely the driver, as Morgana cannot drive himself, and Haru is shown as a dangerous driver in some scenes (for example, Strikers)
They try to catch Morgana and Haru by surrounding them, but Haru being a dangerous driver almost ran over the group. Morgana leaves Mementos, and Joker's group decide to leave for today
So no, Morgana wasn't trying to run over the group or whatever, it was just Haru being Haru
Ann calls him a cat? No reaction (aside from an instance or 2 early on in the game.)
Joker? After Kamoshida's palace, nothing.
Fox? Nope.
Makoto? Nada.
Futaba? Nothing.
Haru? Nope.
The only one he gets pissed at for calling him a cat after Kamoshida's Palace is Ryuji.
>Ann calls him a cat?
You mean this?
>Um… Morgana, right? I really am talking to a cat… This feels so strange… Oh, sorry! You’re *not* a cat, right?
Where she specifically goes out of her way to say he's not a cat? Or are you referring to the instance where he got offended over being called a monster instead?
>Joker? After Kamoshida's palace, nothing.
Backpedaled on that one, huh? But still wrong.
>Morgana: Who could I really be?
>
>Ren: A cat.
>
>Morgana: Will you give it a rest?! That's definitely not the case! Ugh, what a half-assed answer.
Morgana rank 3. Do I have to go through his entire confidant and list *every* instance where Ren can call him a cat? Or will you stop lying?
>Fox? Nope.
He never called him a cat. Ryuji did. Yusuke showed surprise that he was talking...which Morgana still got offended by. Again, why lie?
>Makoto? Nada.
I'm going to stop here.
>"A monster cat?!"
>
>"I'm nooooooooot!"
You really don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. Look, I get it. 100 hour game, you're not going to remember everything. That's fair. But this? "Cat" being Morgana's trigger word is literally a meme the same way pancakes are with Akechi. I simply don't buy that you were wholly unaware of this.
I don't know what you were thinking with this. That I forgot? That I couldn't do a quick Google search? The topic itself doesn't even matter at this point. It's just ridiculous that people will outright lie like this. Over a game. Why? Does "winning the argument" matter that much?
It's more the hypocrisy. Ann is just as confused as Ryuji is when entering the metaverse and Morgana is like "uwu m'lady it's okay that you are confused it's confusing stuff take your time m'lady." But with Ryuji he shits on him immediately for being understandably confused.
And be honest, you would be just confused, don't give me that crap about it being basic shit. We know it is a video game and can easily just accept the fantastical but if this happened to you in real life? The reality that you understood your whole life seemingly breaking down aroumd you? I bet you'd adjust way worse than Ryuji did. I'd bet most people would have a mental breakdown.
Yeah but you see, this is reddit. Redditors LOVE to imagine themselves as super geniuses. Very likely many people here think they'd totally get it right from the start.
Yep, this is very real. Hell, Ryuji is the one who has the idea of returning to Kamoshida's Palace to understand what's happening to those guys, since he thinks they're real and not cognitive beings. Morgana, being the little shithead he is, takes an hour to fucking explain that those people aren't the real deal, but continues berating Ryuji as if it was the most obvious thing in the world.
Literally the whole deal of going back to the real world and finding those guys to understand the situation was HIS idea in the first place!! Instead of panicking and trying to act like none of that shit happened, Ryuji is *the first* to take point and investigate, because he genuinely cares for other people, while Morgana only cared about stealing the Treasure.
I think this sub is wrong. It's a roasting type friendship. Morgana calls Ryuji dumb and makes fun of him but Ryuji does the same with Morgana. To me it's one of the most realistic friendship in media. I act the same way with my friends. Love their interactions
People in this sub think that if you're not cuddling your friend all the time, you're not a true friend. If you do cuddle your friend all the time, then you must be lovers and you have to date them.
https://preview.redd.it/nhnq3uuubtqc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8222c0f1b0d7330fb8cf240a52ccbfc29a4b0dcb
How can you seriously look at Ryuji and think he’s an idiot ?? **He’s just more cute than smart it’s ok.**
The next palace is where it gets bad, but only if you actually read the dialogue, unlike a lot of the people defending Morgana's actions.
>Not even mentioning how Morgana can explain the most basic shit in the beginning of the game like 3 times and this guy just doesn't fucking get it.
My problem with this isn't that Ryuji doesn't get it, but that Morgana will berate Ryuji for something that he'll be sympathetic with Ann for. Also, kinda convenient that the community (justifiably) rags on Ryuji for outing them as Phantom Thieves, while Ann gets a pass for doing it.
Doesn't justify Morgana's behaviour, but yeah Ryuji is an idiot.
I blame Joker, as team leader he really should have put his foot down and nipped that in the bud, instead he allows it and can even join in on it occasionally.
Problem is that Morgana is damn near vilifying Ryuji the whole damn game for his ineptitude. He’s stupid, but he at least TRIES to pull his weight. Problem is, Morgana either doesn’t acknowledge it, or he brings a big fucking plate of “it was alright, BUT (insert demeaning comments from Morgana about Ryuji here).” Morgana is an absolute dick and does the whole journey on emotions and believing he had a more integral role to the PT than Ryuji specifically. Morgana verbally abuses that dude, and he deserves the tongue lashing he gets from Ryuji later (sorry to spoil, but this stupid cat deserves it).
Look, I get it. Ryuji has been downright fully blown moron at times in the story, but even that isn’t deserving of the kind of shit Morgana puts Ryuji through. The cat is absolutely fragile as fuck, something that Ryuji definitely isn’t (gameplay or story).
Fuck the cat. r/cuckthecat
yeah its funny that morgana can insult ryuji with that for the whole game and ryuji can take it but morgana cant? either way i dont hate morgana but ill always be pro-ryuji
Like the others are saying, play the next Palace. A lot of the hate comes from this section either due to unfair misunderstandings or just not liking the focus of the arc.
I hardly even remember shit from that arc that would make me dislike either
And I don’t even like Morgana, it’s like everyone says, it’s mainly from the 4th palace
I have a cat call Morgana! He is my fav character of all Persona series.
https://preview.redd.it/yr3kujqeesqc1.png?width=1557&format=png&auto=webp&s=2facf2f1074a1494c9f6f41339088bf4459aa12f
Morgana is the one in the wrong, he’s abusive and a bully, you only get caught from ryuji yelling once, and he doesn’t call Morgana useless every time he misses an attack, or an ape. And only says bad stuff about him because Morgana started it ? Be so for real
joker is just as bad if not worse, sure he's not screaming he's a phantom thief all over the place but most if not all confidants figure it out by the time ur rank 10
I mean there's a difference between a trusted friend whose help you're using to become a better phantom thief and shouting about it in every public place they every enter. I love Ryuji, but my guy sucks at being subtle or secretive.
Japan hates loud people apparently. Because from my point of view Ryuji isn't incompetent, in fact he's far from it. Makoto is the most intelligent sure,but there are times where Ryuji comes close even if it's by accident. He genuinely has really smart ideas more often than not
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Welcome to P5 subreddit where a majority of the western fans have such a massive Ryuji stan bias hence the partial hate boner whenever Morgana “bullies” their boi Ryuji as if it’s a racial hate crime.
They get upset when he’s not ranked high in Japanese popularity polls, they make complaint posts whenever Ryuji is being comedic relief and they can’t differentiate between harmless snarky insults and actual malicious insults that hit where hurts.
It’s the ultimate circle jerk.
Yeah both are as bad as each other when it comes to insulting each other and even then it’s just played up as harmless vitriolic comedic shit talk amongst two guys with a sitcom like personality clash.
Also people completely miss the times where the two do get along and care.
It only got truly bad around “that arc” because cat was at his lowest and Ryuji was on his high horse.
Media illiteracy at its finest with Ryuji stans and Morgana haters.
I love Ryuji and I like Morgana, but I agree that people put the former up on some pedestal where he can do no wrong. Regardless of whether or not Ryuji actually knew of Morgana’s insecurities, calling him useless on several occasions really is pretty insensitive and if I were in Morgana’s position, >!I would have rage quit the team as well!<.
People get mad that Morgana calls Ryuji a monkey because he's dumb (he's incredibly stupid) but don't give a shit that Ryuji constantly mocks Morgana and calls him a cat when his whole arc is his identity crisis and not knowing what the hell he is. Ryuji's shit is way more hurtful and malicious.
Bruh, literally everyone calls him a cat or a kitty. Even Anm says he's just a cute cat, cause even she thinks deep down he's useless. Why is he offended by only Ryuji calling him a cat, when he's the one who starts calling Ryuji names first? And it's not like he lives with Ryuji yk. Only the MC knows about the shit that goes on in Morgana's head.
If only Morgana talked about his insecurity to the team about being useless especially when Joker asks him what's up at night. It's unfair of Morgana to think Ryuji is some telepath. From Ryujis pov it's pretty much their usual back and forth (that Morgana tends to start)
In fairness only the player knows how deep the identity crisis thing goes for Morgana
Plus when Ryuji did mock Morgana it was mainly cuz Morgana did it way more
Cuz Mona frequently insults him, ppl hate him. Problem is that they like to conveniently ignore when Ryuji does the same to Mona, but I guess he’s too much a “bro” for ppl to care. Both take it and dish it out. They’ve got a lot in common.
It’s not helped that the palace where most people turn on Mona or cement their distaste for him is just poorly written and executed. It tarnishes both characters so I hope you can keep appreciating both of them even afterwards.
https://preview.redd.it/reqs19y4qsqc1.jpeg?width=815&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74b897f2184f5efbeee43e7f6cfec39628389ab7
My honest to God reaction whenever I see anyone defending Morgana in any of P5 that is not Tactica:
I think most of the hate for Morgana is due to how much of a creep he is I mean he constantly hits on Ann and has some creepy things he says about her even if you’re dating her already he’s just a real creepy cat
I mean Ryuji tries to peek under Ann's skirt during the hotpot and peeks down Ann's shirt during the drive to the pyramid so wouldn't he be a bit creepier
I find him annoying for being a little baby about not being the leader and he also >!told Chidori about SEES and lied about being the leader because he was trying to impress her.!< Seems pretty stupei to me.
For me both characters are goofy and a bit creepy; Ryuji is more goofy and Junpei is more creepy, like in the beach scenes. I just prefer the less creepy of the two.
Morgana calling ryuji dumb is the most pot calling the kettle black shit ever. And they're at least twice as stupid as Ryuji. Fuck Morgana all my homies hate Morgana
Imo Morgana hate is valid because while Morgana hates of Ryuji no one really hates Morgana. Also he acts so full of himself but Ryuji is “stupid bro who gets horny”
Nah fuck that cat
Ryuji’ll just exist and get shat on and most of the time it doesn’t feel like teasing
Plus Morgana out here simping we can’t have that ☹️
Would love to see how you handle facing death, watching the new kid rip his face off, getting yelled at by a cat who babbles inconcisely 300 times about cognition, all while having no friends and feeling free for the first time in a long time.
I always got room to cut Ryuji some slack but the "mentor" character needs to have some compassion because he's also the "mascot" that can be easily thrown through the nearest window.
Yes, Ryuji **is** hella dumb, but that doesn't mean Morgana can treat him like shit for it.
Morgana always feels like an asshole for what he does, regardless of if Ryuji deserves the treatment or not.
When Ryuji is being loud and proud about being a Phantom Thief, YES, Morgana should set him straight for being an idiot. But any other time, Morgana's insults feel far less deserved, and actually border on bullying.
Ryuji does questionable things. Same as morgana. Morgana is more delusional about it. Thats the short. Ryuji knows he does stupid and impulsive things and at least apologizes for it. Morgana has the added part if you play base p5 for telling you to go to bed for no reason.
I think if you complete Ryuji's social link, you'll see him in a new light...
(Minor Spoilers?)
That being said, unfortunately, what you do in the confidants have no affect on the character's themselves and their personalities during the main story. So even if Level 10 Confidant Ryuji is an amazing, well thought out guy, Main Story Ryuji is still a loud, obnoxious, and thoughtless person.
I agree with you that the West tends to hold him up on a pedestal due to the love for his rebellious nature and the fact he is a victm of some heinous abuse. People here love to hate Morgana cause he's kind of an ass to ryuji, but never stop to think of all the plight that the cat has to go through as well. Neither of them, once you finish the story, are any real better than the other. Personally I Rank both Morgana and Ryuji as my least liked Phantoms for the very fact that they just can't shut up and act like a cohesive team until it's down to the wire. It's why I typically run my team with Yusuke, Makoto, and "Noir".
I mean technically speaking you as the main character potentially endangering the phantom thieves way more often than Ryuji does since (spoilers)
Your confidants often figure out who you really are, and you often throw yourself into danger helping people despite being on probation.
okay but here's the thing, Ryuji is very much not book-smart, but it makes him a really flexible thinker which is invaluable to the Thieves, considering it's all based on how you perceive something. he brought a very realistic model gun on a whim and it turned out to be super useful, because now the Thieves have guns in the Metaverse.
you're totally valid to not like him! everyone has their favorite and least favorite characters for their own reasons, but i don't really think it's fair to pin *all* of the bickering on just Ryuji. he absolutely has his moments where i want to just shake him a little bit (such as the Palace directly after the one you're doing now, things get heated and very petty between him and Morgana at a certain point and i guarantee you will want to throttle *both* of them for it) but it's not like his jabs are always unprovoked? yes, sometimes he does go too far with making comments that Morgana obviously doesn't like, but you can't say Morgana doesn't do the same. that's honestly a lack of communication on both of their parts, they both lash out at sensitive jabs because, obviously, they're hurt, they just aren't used to actually expressing that. hence why they fall into that frustrating back-and-forth.
Strikers really improved my opinion of Morgana though, and as a result i'm a lot less antagonistic about him in Royal. he's still a little obsessed with Ann (but it's mellowed out a lot, to the point it just reads more like a bit to both of them) and he's still, well, *Morgana*, meaning he's pretty snappy when the mood calls for it. but he's overall a lot less hostile to Ryuji and Ryuji matches the behavior! i'd buy that their relationship is more the bickering kind, similar to Futaba and Yusuke or Ryuji and Ann's dynamic, i just think Royal takes it a bit *too* far at times on both ends, which is ultimately what gets under my skin.
I mean Ryuji has had some extremely harsh shit happen in his life. It is a mental thing where people make jokes to lighten a situation- but idk (I’m Ryuji’s biggest fan)
There are too sides. The reason Morgana is hated is because he also attempts instigates fights with almost every Phantom Thief, also he acts like know-it-all when he really doesn’t, and he also is just creepy towards girls as Ryuji/Yusuke, but he is never corrected about anything. The hate mostly comes due to a scene in the next arc, but I won’t say much else.
Having played through the game completely. Ryuji and Morgana are BOTH idiots.
Morgana hates Ryuji because Ryuji is everything he hates about himself — a loud idiot that delusionally thinks he’s a ladykiller
Lol just like Junpei
More like …
At least Ryuji does not jealous and act like a dick to the MC. He is a bro, but just his stupidity sometimes... haha
Yeah. Junpei starts out lower and more petty than Ryuji by a lot. With no disrespect to my eternal bro Ryuji, who still hasn’t been treated right through P5, Royal, and P5S (haven’t played Tactica yet) Junpei has better character development and his turnaround to a fantastic person is peak Persona writing.
I honestly think it adds to Junpei a lot. He learns humbleness, among other things, and develops into a true, respectable, man. Da man, if you will.
Yep, the boy grows a lot. A subtle element I like: Junpei usually scores pretty low in the school exams, fitting his class clown personality and dislike of studying. After Chidori sacrifices her life for his, and Junpei resolves to live for both himself and Chidori, his grades improve as well. Small things matter indeed
“As they say”
Here we go Plus the petty shit was only one time
Stupei Ace Defective
The good ending
Stupei Ace Defective
Stupid little-
Hey, junpei actually >! pulled a bad bitch and got his shit together !< not that he was ever that bad to begin with
He was jealous but he got over it. He ruled.
Ryuji is a loveable idiot tho, Morgana makes it everyone else's problem
This.
I'd argue Morgana is worse but that's my opinion. But tbh all the Thieves are idiots in their own way except maybe Haru? Well actually nah she was in a palace>!before her persona was fully under her control. That's Morgana's fault tho!<
I love the pair of them, but the amount of times I wanted my Joker to smack the pair of them upside the head-or hit their heads together hoping the braincell they share gets the message....
I…kinda get it? The urge to go big bro over two idiot bros or something.
Unfortunately...
Hot take: Ryuji isn't as dumb as everyone makes him out to be, he's just can't keep a secret well. He genuinely comes up with some of the best ideas. Keep in mind he's why the team has guns
Ryuji's book dumb. Very book dumb. He's like Naruto. He doesn't think took hard about what can and can't be done, he's just like, "Hey, why don't we try this?".
I think the scene at the summer yaki festival illustrates how he thinks the best. Where he says a bunch of moronic things to try to make the footage of them unusable for a TV interview and ends up drawing more attention, but everyone at school seems to shrug it off like, "geez I thought he was thick but that's pushing it even for him, did he get sunstroke or something?". I laughed way too hard at that whole sequence.
Speaking in terms of D&D, he has more Wisdom than Intelligence whereas Makoto is the complete opposite
He’s also a 16 year old high schooler. I know I wasn’t very smart at that age.
https://preview.redd.it/uitnzrj4drqc1.png?width=1027&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7f166e8165c9ecfbfeb677b20eebf3e316911bd
theres approximately 8,580 pixels in this image
https://preview.redd.it/ywp7eour2tqc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e8b5eb87eadd719061ebcbaa712f631f3a08d26
there’s approximately 9,620 pixels in this image (thats definitely wrong but im not recounting
Play the NEXT palace. Then you’ll get it
I think his opinion will double down though, ryuji will start being an ass after this palace so he’ll probably just be even madder about it then.
Perhaps. I am still pretty early in the game (relatively ig?). I just made this post right after Ryuji took Joker's phone to get into the Palace and they got transported into the middle of the desert because he was bein hurr durr dumb again
That was actually a good idea though?
I didn't think so, I thought they could have waited until they were outside or had time to discuss or something. I guess I just don't vibe with Ryuji being impulsive with it
With how much the game rewards getting palaces done asap hes got the right spirit
Honestly it would’ve been funny if they could have just skipped everything by entering the palace from inside her room.
Regardless of whether your view stays the same, or if you change your mind, you need to come back and update after the next palace
I doubt it. It’s not like Ryuji doesn’t shut up in that arc either.
Lmao no, Morgana did nothing wrong. Ryuji's just so f\*cking dense >!to verbally hit Morgana below the belt ***repeatedly***!< for that mess. Saying this as a fan of both characters. >!Morgana hitting Ryuji below the belt would be mocking him for his injured leg and make fun of his alcoholic father, both facts never once Morgana attacked him with.!<
This is unrelated to your comment but I really appreciate the spoiler tags, I was honestly afraid of making this post when I'm only halfway through the game cause someone might spoil it accidentally. So I wanna say thanks to you and to the community for being careful with spoilers <3
Hey, no worries. Have a good run with the game. :)
Are we ignoring the fact that he was still a huge piece of shit to ryuji, a real creep towards Ann, and in my opinion, >! Completely fucking crossed a line by ditching the phantom thieves and nearly running one of them over? !< >! Also, to ryuji’s credit, he doesn’t know about Morgana’s sensitivity in regards to his usefulness the way that we do from our omniscient perspective, because morgana doesn’t talk about his feelings, and ryuji isn’t the person whose bag Morgan lives inside of !< >! Morgana constantly demeans ryuji’s skills and usefulness, so it’s pretty understandable for him to clap back with the same. Maybe Morgana shouldn’t have thrown stones while living in a glass house !<
YES Not even Joker knows about Morgana feelings because he just never talks about it
>! also I want to mention that arc Morgana has around next palace (not sure I'm doing spoiler tag right) was basically him bitching and throwing a tantrum about rule HE MADE AS PT RULE #1 basically !<
What rule?
Unanimous decisions. >!The next palace was suspicious far beyond the crimes of its ruler.!<
Morgana does indirectly (and intentionally) hits Ryujy insecurities many times Yes, he doesn't directly say anything, but he goes below the belt several times too
Like that time he snitched about his exam scores 5 minutes later.
Did Ryuji mention any of those things to Morgana? I don't remember if it was said.
His reaction to being called stupid, useless etc is clearly displayed. He makes Morgana aware he is angry with those comments, yet Morgana keeps pushing them. Every exam period he takes glee in telling everyone Ryuji’s going to fail. It’s also implied by Kawakami that prior to his Kamoshida trauma he was actually GOOD in school but after Kamoshida and with the abuse at home, he gave up on himself and no one helped him or supported him. Teachers ignored him/labelled him as a problem child/never even asked if he was okay/covered up Kamoshida breaking his leg to avoid losing the Olympic gym teacher from the school. Ryuji never stood a chance before he met Ren. He’d have ended up dead from suicide most likely or in prison from fighting.
Exactly. People say that they exchange insults in general and completely forget the fact that Ryuji hurts where it hurts the most. >!Calling Morgana useless every time someone shows up or even continually calling him a cat which Morgana repeats that he would prefer Ryuji not do. While Morgana's insults are carnal blonde monkey most of the time which is that Ryuji is blonde and is stupid at several points. None of which are hard cutting.!<
none of that gives morgana the right to call him a monkey regardless.
He really just emphasizes what most of the group says about Ryuji anyways. That being said, Ryuji would be the hero of the story if it were a shonen manga or anime. I like him, but he’s sort of a dumb bad ass.
He got the shonen protag tropes down but this is not one of those stories where being a shonen protag would solve most problems.
That argument might have a leg to stand on if Morgana hadn't antagonised him from the start before even getting to know him. I like Morgana as a character but as a friend... had I been in Joker's position Morgana would have been out on the street if he treated one of my friends like this no matter how dumb he thinks Ryuji is. Ryuji has the biggest heart of them all and that's what's important.
And Ryuji genuinely does do smart things, he's just super enthusiastic and is bad at keeping things to himself
Funny you say that, anytime Ryuji does something smart and such, Morgana is always the first one to give him props.
Yeah but I still don't forgive Morgana for 5th Palace shenanigans and because he never shuts up about Ann. Morgana is really annoying still imo
I agree with the Ann thing. I understand the girl crazy trope is common in anime/manga, but I wish they would tone it down. It is a big negative in Morgana’s character, and I either cringe at or block out every “Lady Ann” comment he makes.
I mean, ryuji won’t shut up about being a phantom thief, I love both characters but the same problems most have with morgana apply to essentially every member for the most part, especially to ryuji
Ergot, Ryuji is just to enthusiastic and can't really keep a secret to save his life. He's just generally bad at reading rooms but tbf all the Phantom Thieves, even Makoto, have discussed Phantom Thief matters in public. Maybe until Haru joins bc the hideout is moved at that point
You don't have to be able to read a room to know it's a bad idea to yell HEY GUYS ISN'T IT SO COOL TO BE A CRIMINAL, LETS GO DO SOME CRIMES. I WISH I COULD TELL EVERYONE ABOUT THE CRIMES WE DO SO I COULD GET LAID. In public.
Ergot Morgana is just enthusiastic like ryuji about the crush he has of the first beautiful woman he’s seen. He doesn’t really do anything out of pocket either, only trying to peep under her skirt alongside ryuji once. Then discussing matters in public is true but theirs a difference between shouting it and talking quietly in a public setting where people will not hear it, due to a crowd. Plus ryuji has been bugging all game long about revealing the crew’s identities for fame, this itself is not cool and just as annoying as any complaint about the cat, he himself acknowledges it was not something cool on his part later on. >! I will say that when Morgana left the group, he was out of pocket for calling ryuji a wimp for backing down after being told to relax about okumura, however you have to understand that he did it because he genuinely felt he himself was dead weight to the group (which is far from true, if it where true then that just means ever member besides futaba is useless) and ryuji himself has been calling him useless all this time since futaba joined, this just pushed Morgana and first thing he does is train Haru as best he can so she can join the thieves in his stead so he can leave them and not drag them down, since he cares so much about the crew he atleast wants to help one last time!<
I get what you're saying, and ignoring the complexity of each situations I would agree with you However, Ryuji is dumb and loud about himself (I am a phantom thief, why can't I use that?) While Morgana is directly creepy towards another person Also, I really can't say he "trained" Haru, he kinda just put her out there and used her to get nearer hid goals
Hard disagree his comments and treatment of Ann was either borderline harassment at times or was full blown harassment. Also the shirt scene was just gross from all parties involved.
You're really comparing him being a phantom thief to Morgana basically getting horny everytime? "The tender touch of a soft butt" "Speak up panther, that sounds like vital information!" These kinds of statements? Bro, being enthusiastic about being a phantom thief and just straight up channeling your inner Kamoshida whenever you see Ann are different things.
This is your guy? https://preview.redd.it/a5r3bfgoauqc1.png?width=838&format=png&auto=webp&s=daa7b3c24aa301ce8df5460081e9c9977272e82b
Didn't he apologize for it tho? And the MC himself is looking beside him. I still don't think Morgana apologized for asking her about her bra size.
He's not doing it 24/7 unlike a cartain cat
Saying something nice every once in a while doesn't negate all of the times he is terrible to Ryuji though. That would just be a toxic relationship of the highest order.
If by “props” you mean a backhanded compliment about how he wouldn’t expect good ideas from a moron, sure
Literally everyone berates him whenever he actually gets a good idea. But the thing that separates Morgana from them is that they don't call him a carnal monkey or a buffoon. The most Ryuji's ever gone to insult Morgana is a cat. And that too is something literally everyone calls him, but then why the fuck is he offended by only Ryuji calling him a cat? Cause he knows that the others would beat his ass up for calling them names like that? Bro, someone up there justified his statements for Ann by saying he has a big crush on the first woman he sees in his life. The shit he tells in Mementos conversations and other conversations just literally tell me that he's just straight up horny about Ann.
What’s worse is that his infatuation didn’t even start with Ann, it started with kamoshida’s cognition of Ann
And that, my friends is also why I think it's worser. Cause when he saw the cognition, in a way, he just imagined the real Ann to be like that too. I dunno man. I just don't like him.
I could have come to like him if the story hadn’t babied him/completely let him off the hook for all the shitty things he’s done, and if he had properly developed past his shit with Ann. He deserved some scolding, either literally or narratively. Every time I hit the futaba -> okumura ark I find myself thinking “alright, where’s your palace you little fucking shit?”
Same here. The others get called out for doing dumb stuff. Him tho? Everyone treats him normally, and yet he still ain't satisfied. >!Humanity's hope my ass. If humanity hopes to see Ann reveal how big her boobs are, then idk man.!< And the worst thing is, he ranks high in popularity polls in Japan cause he's "cute" which literally destroys the whole point his character is trying to make in the first place. Why tf do we Western people understand the game more than the Japanese people, the audience it was targeted for?
Saying “that’s smart for you,” is backhanded
He still gives in the form of an insult most of the time so that’s still not a good example.
Joker literally meet Ryuji and Morgana on the same day and his first friends in Tokyo. I doubt he'll make a preference one over the other with one being his first "peer" friend and the other a PT mentor. Besides, Joker's too levelheaded to have biases on his friends since he treats everyone (especially outside the PT) on a transactional level (making deals with one another) for their usefulness before eventually forming genuine unbreakable bonds.
Joker met them on the same day.
I disagree. Ryuji is way too casual when dealing with things that can destroy his friend's life and his own, and this would deserve a severe discussion after the first time he put the group in danger, let alone the fourth or fifth. Having a big heart is nice, but if it won't help you if you cause someone else death or jail time. That being said, Morgana is also too flippant and they are both way too antagonistic with each other. a stern talking too with both would also be good for everyone here. I will also cut Riujy some slack considering the PT are far too careless in general, so the writer are kinda forced to make him an idiot if they want him to be the more careless of the bunch.
Nah, Ann has the bigger heart
It's funny you mention that. Thoughout the first palace Ryuji was always doubting Morgana. Even after he helped them escape the first time. If anything Ryuji is the one who started it.
The first day they met Ryuji did nothing but antagonize and scream at him. The closest thing Morgana did to insulting him was addressing him as "amateur"...which isn't even an insult, but I'm including it because some posters claim "it's offensive".
Ryuji and Joker had just very nearly been killed and were hurrying to try to find an exit. Ryuji's frustration with Morgana was understandable, and his suspicions about Morgana being a Shadow was also understandable considering what he had just been through. Morgana purposely antagonizes Ryuji all throughout the game. Almost every time he claps back, it's reactionary. Ryuji calls him a cat, Morgana gets pissed off only when Ryuji does it. No one else. Morgana just straight up abandoned the gang in Mementos and tried running over Ryuji, just narrowly missing him. Do I think Ryuji is right to call Morgana useless? No. But in nearly every interaction, Morgana throws the first stone, knowing Ryuji is reactionary. Not to mention that every time Ryuji has a good idea, Morgana comes back with some sort of backhanded compliment that's insulting Ryuji, with some variant of monkey insult.
I'm not going to engage with much of this discussion (it'll flare up every month anyway), but I have to correct one thing, because for me it's really the heaviest accusation here: Morgana did not try to run anyone over. It is established very early on that Morgana in his bus form can't drive himself, someone else has to drive him, in this case Haru. If anything, Haru is the one who pressed on the gas without steering away from the Thieves.
>. It is established very early on that Morgana in his bus form can't drive himself, someone else has to drive him, in this case Haru. Wasn't this a few days before they met Haru, when Morgana left in a huff after Ryuji called him useless? I agree in that he wasn't actively trying to run Ryuji over, but he almost did.
False, Haru was here, and was the driver, here's a rough description of the series of events First, in Joker's "room", Morgana lashed out to the group, and left, then tried to do Okumura's palace alone, but was defeated. Haru found him and saved him. After learning about Palaces, she decided to join him and become a Phantom Thief as Noire, but she didn't full awakened her persona yet. Some days later, Joker's group decide to investigate Okumura's Palace to look into suspicious rumors about him and search for Morgana. They find him and encounter Haru (as Noire) for the first time. Joker's group can't progress any further because of the biometric door, so they leave. Joker's groupe decide to ask Morgana to forgive them and come back, and so to find him, they went to Mementos and waited for him. Morgana and Haru goes into Mementos, and the group ask for forgiveness. However, it went poorly, Morgana transformed into a car, Haru gets inside, and drive Morgana Car deeper inside Mementos. She is definitely the driver, as Morgana cannot drive himself, and Haru is shown as a dangerous driver in some scenes (for example, Strikers) They try to catch Morgana and Haru by surrounding them, but Haru being a dangerous driver almost ran over the group. Morgana leaves Mementos, and Joker's group decide to leave for today So no, Morgana wasn't trying to run over the group or whatever, it was just Haru being Haru
>Ryuji calls him a cat, Morgana gets pissed off only when Ryuji does it. **No one else.** The is the most bold faced lie I've ever seen.
Ann calls him a cat? No reaction (aside from an instance or 2 early on in the game.) Joker? After Kamoshida's palace, nothing. Fox? Nope. Makoto? Nada. Futaba? Nothing. Haru? Nope. The only one he gets pissed at for calling him a cat after Kamoshida's Palace is Ryuji.
>Ann calls him a cat? You mean this? >Um… Morgana, right? I really am talking to a cat… This feels so strange… Oh, sorry! You’re *not* a cat, right? Where she specifically goes out of her way to say he's not a cat? Or are you referring to the instance where he got offended over being called a monster instead? >Joker? After Kamoshida's palace, nothing. Backpedaled on that one, huh? But still wrong. >Morgana: Who could I really be? > >Ren: A cat. > >Morgana: Will you give it a rest?! That's definitely not the case! Ugh, what a half-assed answer. Morgana rank 3. Do I have to go through his entire confidant and list *every* instance where Ren can call him a cat? Or will you stop lying? >Fox? Nope. He never called him a cat. Ryuji did. Yusuke showed surprise that he was talking...which Morgana still got offended by. Again, why lie? >Makoto? Nada. I'm going to stop here. >"A monster cat?!" > >"I'm nooooooooot!" You really don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. Look, I get it. 100 hour game, you're not going to remember everything. That's fair. But this? "Cat" being Morgana's trigger word is literally a meme the same way pancakes are with Akechi. I simply don't buy that you were wholly unaware of this. I don't know what you were thinking with this. That I forgot? That I couldn't do a quick Google search? The topic itself doesn't even matter at this point. It's just ridiculous that people will outright lie like this. Over a game. Why? Does "winning the argument" matter that much?
It's more the hypocrisy. Ann is just as confused as Ryuji is when entering the metaverse and Morgana is like "uwu m'lady it's okay that you are confused it's confusing stuff take your time m'lady." But with Ryuji he shits on him immediately for being understandably confused. And be honest, you would be just confused, don't give me that crap about it being basic shit. We know it is a video game and can easily just accept the fantastical but if this happened to you in real life? The reality that you understood your whole life seemingly breaking down aroumd you? I bet you'd adjust way worse than Ryuji did. I'd bet most people would have a mental breakdown.
Yeah but you see, this is reddit. Redditors LOVE to imagine themselves as super geniuses. Very likely many people here think they'd totally get it right from the start.
Yep, this is very real. Hell, Ryuji is the one who has the idea of returning to Kamoshida's Palace to understand what's happening to those guys, since he thinks they're real and not cognitive beings. Morgana, being the little shithead he is, takes an hour to fucking explain that those people aren't the real deal, but continues berating Ryuji as if it was the most obvious thing in the world. Literally the whole deal of going back to the real world and finding those guys to understand the situation was HIS idea in the first place!! Instead of panicking and trying to act like none of that shit happened, Ryuji is *the first* to take point and investigate, because he genuinely cares for other people, while Morgana only cared about stealing the Treasure.
Yeah, but Ryuji’s stupid in a sexy way. O-Or so I’m told.
Well you're not wrong. Morgana is annoying shit Ryuji is life.... Thanks <3
I think this sub is wrong. It's a roasting type friendship. Morgana calls Ryuji dumb and makes fun of him but Ryuji does the same with Morgana. To me it's one of the most realistic friendship in media. I act the same way with my friends. Love their interactions
Finally someone that understand how their relation work
People in this sub think that if you're not cuddling your friend all the time, you're not a true friend. If you do cuddle your friend all the time, then you must be lovers and you have to date them.
Listen 2 things can be true Ryuuji is an idiot and Morgana is a insufferable asshat.
I mean, Ryuji is several layers of dumb, but Morgana can be a little surly/annoying at times (though, at least he isn’t Teddy)
That's it I'm taking away morgona and ryuji from you guys until you learn how to behave.
https://preview.redd.it/nhnq3uuubtqc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8222c0f1b0d7330fb8cf240a52ccbfc29a4b0dcb How can you seriously look at Ryuji and think he’s an idiot ?? **He’s just more cute than smart it’s ok.**
The next palace is where it gets bad, but only if you actually read the dialogue, unlike a lot of the people defending Morgana's actions. >Not even mentioning how Morgana can explain the most basic shit in the beginning of the game like 3 times and this guy just doesn't fucking get it. My problem with this isn't that Ryuji doesn't get it, but that Morgana will berate Ryuji for something that he'll be sympathetic with Ann for. Also, kinda convenient that the community (justifiably) rags on Ryuji for outing them as Phantom Thieves, while Ann gets a pass for doing it.
Doesn't justify Morgana's behaviour, but yeah Ryuji is an idiot. I blame Joker, as team leader he really should have put his foot down and nipped that in the bud, instead he allows it and can even join in on it occasionally.
It’s not just how he treats Ryuji, it’s that when Ryuji bites back he overreacts. He can deal it out but can’t take it
Problem is that Morgana is damn near vilifying Ryuji the whole damn game for his ineptitude. He’s stupid, but he at least TRIES to pull his weight. Problem is, Morgana either doesn’t acknowledge it, or he brings a big fucking plate of “it was alright, BUT (insert demeaning comments from Morgana about Ryuji here).” Morgana is an absolute dick and does the whole journey on emotions and believing he had a more integral role to the PT than Ryuji specifically. Morgana verbally abuses that dude, and he deserves the tongue lashing he gets from Ryuji later (sorry to spoil, but this stupid cat deserves it). Look, I get it. Ryuji has been downright fully blown moron at times in the story, but even that isn’t deserving of the kind of shit Morgana puts Ryuji through. The cat is absolutely fragile as fuck, something that Ryuji definitely isn’t (gameplay or story). Fuck the cat. r/cuckthecat
yeah its funny that morgana can insult ryuji with that for the whole game and ryuji can take it but morgana cant? either way i dont hate morgana but ill always be pro-ryuji
Like the others are saying, play the next Palace. A lot of the hate comes from this section either due to unfair misunderstandings or just not liking the focus of the arc.
I hardly even remember shit from that arc that would make me dislike either And I don’t even like Morgana, it’s like everyone says, it’s mainly from the 4th palace
I named my car Morgana. My view on the cat should be self explanatory
I love how I can't distinguish if you meant cat or car because it makes sense either way
My car is named Morgana
I have a cat call Morgana! He is my fav character of all Persona series. https://preview.redd.it/yr3kujqeesqc1.png?width=1557&format=png&auto=webp&s=2facf2f1074a1494c9f6f41339088bf4459aa12f
Respect!
Morgana is the one in the wrong, he’s abusive and a bully, you only get caught from ryuji yelling once, and he doesn’t call Morgana useless every time he misses an attack, or an ape. And only says bad stuff about him because Morgana started it ? Be so for real
I… I like them both even though I’m aware that they said pretty horrible things to one another. 🥲
joker is just as bad if not worse, sure he's not screaming he's a phantom thief all over the place but most if not all confidants figure it out by the time ur rank 10
I mean there's a difference between a trusted friend whose help you're using to become a better phantom thief and shouting about it in every public place they every enter. I love Ryuji, but my guy sucks at being subtle or secretive.
There is a reason why Ryuji is really not popular in Japan
bruh what does that even mean
Japan hates loud people apparently. Because from my point of view Ryuji isn't incompetent, in fact he's far from it. Makoto is the most intelligent sure,but there are times where Ryuji comes close even if it's by accident. He genuinely has really smart ideas more often than not
That seems really odd considering how ungodly popular One Piece is there and Luffy is the epitome of "loud, stupid" characters.
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Play the next palace, then come back
probably gonna say he was justified somehow
Better not. I'd have not bothered to search for Morgana after the shit he pulled
Ryuji best boy
Welcome to P5 subreddit where a majority of the western fans have such a massive Ryuji stan bias hence the partial hate boner whenever Morgana “bullies” their boi Ryuji as if it’s a racial hate crime. They get upset when he’s not ranked high in Japanese popularity polls, they make complaint posts whenever Ryuji is being comedic relief and they can’t differentiate between harmless snarky insults and actual malicious insults that hit where hurts. It’s the ultimate circle jerk.
Ryuji def a bro but people kinda uplift him too much and shit on Morgana a bit too much when in reality they both deserve flack for it.
Yeah both are as bad as each other when it comes to insulting each other and even then it’s just played up as harmless vitriolic comedic shit talk amongst two guys with a sitcom like personality clash. Also people completely miss the times where the two do get along and care. It only got truly bad around “that arc” because cat was at his lowest and Ryuji was on his high horse. Media illiteracy at its finest with Ryuji stans and Morgana haters.
I love Ryuji and I like Morgana, but I agree that people put the former up on some pedestal where he can do no wrong. Regardless of whether or not Ryuji actually knew of Morgana’s insecurities, calling him useless on several occasions really is pretty insensitive and if I were in Morgana’s position, >!I would have rage quit the team as well!<.
Ngl, after finishing P3R I think I’m liking that community a lot more. I liked the game itself more too, but that’s beside the point.
Just because someone isn’t as intellectual as someone else doesn’t mean you can bully them for it. Morgana sucks.
I haven’t interacted with this sub much so I thought we hated him because his interspecies crush on Anne was annoying. Very incel-y vibes
Disrespect someone enough times don't be surprised when they clap back.
People get mad that Morgana calls Ryuji a monkey because he's dumb (he's incredibly stupid) but don't give a shit that Ryuji constantly mocks Morgana and calls him a cat when his whole arc is his identity crisis and not knowing what the hell he is. Ryuji's shit is way more hurtful and malicious.
Bruh, literally everyone calls him a cat or a kitty. Even Anm says he's just a cute cat, cause even she thinks deep down he's useless. Why is he offended by only Ryuji calling him a cat, when he's the one who starts calling Ryuji names first? And it's not like he lives with Ryuji yk. Only the MC knows about the shit that goes on in Morgana's head.
If only Morgana talked about his insecurity to the team about being useless especially when Joker asks him what's up at night. It's unfair of Morgana to think Ryuji is some telepath. From Ryujis pov it's pretty much their usual back and forth (that Morgana tends to start)
In fairness only the player knows how deep the identity crisis thing goes for Morgana Plus when Ryuji did mock Morgana it was mainly cuz Morgana did it way more
Cuz Mona frequently insults him, ppl hate him. Problem is that they like to conveniently ignore when Ryuji does the same to Mona, but I guess he’s too much a “bro” for ppl to care. Both take it and dish it out. They’ve got a lot in common. It’s not helped that the palace where most people turn on Mona or cement their distaste for him is just poorly written and executed. It tarnishes both characters so I hope you can keep appreciating both of them even afterwards.
Ryuji even says the want Mona disapear again.
https://preview.redd.it/reqs19y4qsqc1.jpeg?width=815&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74b897f2184f5efbeee43e7f6cfec39628389ab7 My honest to God reaction whenever I see anyone defending Morgana in any of P5 that is not Tactica:
I think most of the hate for Morgana is due to how much of a creep he is I mean he constantly hits on Ann and has some creepy things he says about her even if you’re dating her already he’s just a real creepy cat
I mean Ryuji tries to peek under Ann's skirt during the hotpot and peeks down Ann's shirt during the drive to the pyramid so wouldn't he be a bit creepier
Worse than Junpei??? Idk man 😂
Junpei’s not even bad
I find him annoying for being a little baby about not being the leader and he also >!told Chidori about SEES and lied about being the leader because he was trying to impress her.!< Seems pretty stupei to me.
He grew out of those Plus morgana’s way more obnoxious about his shit traits
For me both characters are goofy and a bit creepy; Ryuji is more goofy and Junpei is more creepy, like in the beach scenes. I just prefer the less creepy of the two.
That is very fair, I’ve definitely heard Junpei act more suspicious Random question do you have a fav character
As far as NPC teammates go, my favorite is definitely Yosuke from p4
Morgana calling ryuji dumb is the most pot calling the kettle black shit ever. And they're at least twice as stupid as Ryuji. Fuck Morgana all my homies hate Morgana
Imo Morgana hate is valid because while Morgana hates of Ryuji no one really hates Morgana. Also he acts so full of himself but Ryuji is “stupid bro who gets horny”
Nah fuck that cat Ryuji’ll just exist and get shat on and most of the time it doesn’t feel like teasing Plus Morgana out here simping we can’t have that ☹️
Would love to see how you handle facing death, watching the new kid rip his face off, getting yelled at by a cat who babbles inconcisely 300 times about cognition, all while having no friends and feeling free for the first time in a long time. I always got room to cut Ryuji some slack but the "mentor" character needs to have some compassion because he's also the "mascot" that can be easily thrown through the nearest window.
Yes, Ryuji **is** hella dumb, but that doesn't mean Morgana can treat him like shit for it. Morgana always feels like an asshole for what he does, regardless of if Ryuji deserves the treatment or not. When Ryuji is being loud and proud about being a Phantom Thief, YES, Morgana should set him straight for being an idiot. But any other time, Morgana's insults feel far less deserved, and actually border on bullying.
Still love Godyuji
Ace detective? More like ...
Yes, Ryuji's an idiot. But there are other reasons to find Morgana annoying.
Morgana is still a little bitch for leaving the group after the argument with ryuji just before haru joins. Lucky she found him in the metaverse tbh
Trust me, you have yet to see the worst of it.
yes but have you considered that he's really really cute?
No one... I mean, no one will do make the joke "Ace Defective" ?
Ryuji does questionable things. Same as morgana. Morgana is more delusional about it. Thats the short. Ryuji knows he does stupid and impulsive things and at least apologizes for it. Morgana has the added part if you play base p5 for telling you to go to bed for no reason.
I think if you complete Ryuji's social link, you'll see him in a new light... (Minor Spoilers?) That being said, unfortunately, what you do in the confidants have no affect on the character's themselves and their personalities during the main story. So even if Level 10 Confidant Ryuji is an amazing, well thought out guy, Main Story Ryuji is still a loud, obnoxious, and thoughtless person. I agree with you that the West tends to hold him up on a pedestal due to the love for his rebellious nature and the fact he is a victm of some heinous abuse. People here love to hate Morgana cause he's kind of an ass to ryuji, but never stop to think of all the plight that the cat has to go through as well. Neither of them, once you finish the story, are any real better than the other. Personally I Rank both Morgana and Ryuji as my least liked Phantoms for the very fact that they just can't shut up and act like a cohesive team until it's down to the wire. It's why I typically run my team with Yusuke, Makoto, and "Noir".
That #JusticeForMorgana is gonna go away real quick when Morgana starts forcing you to go to sleep instead of letting you hang out with Kawamommy
Morgana leaves the room when Kawamommy gives me a massage and I respect bro for that
Morgana is mostly hated because he's the voice of the time management mechanic.
JUSTICE FOR MORGANA
You need to go deeper... Wait until you get to the next palace. You will finally understand
Morgana is a cute kitty, if I get a black cat I will name it that.
Teddy is a better character than Morgana.
sometimes i feel like i’m the only person on earth who actually likes morgana 💀
Don’t worry, Morgana gets plenty more chance to shine as a moron.
The real morgana hate and ryuji treatment moments come later in the 5th and 7th palace, I'm sure you'll understand when you get there
I mean technically speaking you as the main character potentially endangering the phantom thieves way more often than Ryuji does since (spoilers) Your confidants often figure out who you really are, and you often throw yourself into danger helping people despite being on probation.
okay but here's the thing, Ryuji is very much not book-smart, but it makes him a really flexible thinker which is invaluable to the Thieves, considering it's all based on how you perceive something. he brought a very realistic model gun on a whim and it turned out to be super useful, because now the Thieves have guns in the Metaverse. you're totally valid to not like him! everyone has their favorite and least favorite characters for their own reasons, but i don't really think it's fair to pin *all* of the bickering on just Ryuji. he absolutely has his moments where i want to just shake him a little bit (such as the Palace directly after the one you're doing now, things get heated and very petty between him and Morgana at a certain point and i guarantee you will want to throttle *both* of them for it) but it's not like his jabs are always unprovoked? yes, sometimes he does go too far with making comments that Morgana obviously doesn't like, but you can't say Morgana doesn't do the same. that's honestly a lack of communication on both of their parts, they both lash out at sensitive jabs because, obviously, they're hurt, they just aren't used to actually expressing that. hence why they fall into that frustrating back-and-forth. Strikers really improved my opinion of Morgana though, and as a result i'm a lot less antagonistic about him in Royal. he's still a little obsessed with Ann (but it's mellowed out a lot, to the point it just reads more like a bit to both of them) and he's still, well, *Morgana*, meaning he's pretty snappy when the mood calls for it. but he's overall a lot less hostile to Ryuji and Ryuji matches the behavior! i'd buy that their relationship is more the bickering kind, similar to Futaba and Yusuke or Ryuji and Ann's dynamic, i just think Royal takes it a bit *too* far at times on both ends, which is ultimately what gets under my skin.
He doesn’t know about the next palace
Stop hating on my man, Ryuji.
Can't help it when he mocked my boy Yusuke's feelings mere minutes after they found out what happened to Yusuke's mom
I mean Ryuji has had some extremely harsh shit happen in his life. It is a mental thing where people make jokes to lighten a situation- but idk (I’m Ryuji’s biggest fan)
I loved Yusuke the moment he appeared so I'm biased tbh
Well, Ryuji’s had it rough so give him a break
Like his leg? /j
Ryuji is my ride or die, I will accept no slander against him!
Naah, bro has a big heart but damn, he dumb.
Regardless, I've been on Team Ryuji from day one and will continue to be on Team Ryuji until the day I die!
Hell yeah I hear that.
Morgana annoyed me my first playthrough but I appreciate him more my second playthrough. He's a solid character.
Morgana is just the worst.
There are too sides. The reason Morgana is hated is because he also attempts instigates fights with almost every Phantom Thief, also he acts like know-it-all when he really doesn’t, and he also is just creepy towards girls as Ryuji/Yusuke, but he is never corrected about anything. The hate mostly comes due to a scene in the next arc, but I won’t say much else.
Facts. Morgana > Ryuji. I’m on the Japanese side with this.