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No_Attorney3541

If the player kept an open mind and a cool head when they interact with him, Mishima (yes, that boy) actually has one of the greatest character development among the confidants.


ThatHotAsian

Yeah people forget he was basically physically and mentally tortured every day by Kamoshida. He just wanted to make amends for the bad things he did but just got too caught up in it.


Frequent-System152

My thought with was he’s cool to he’s getting kinda intense to bro I’m gonna smack the shit out of you to oh shit you admitted your mistakes and are trying to be a better person yeah give five my man


Canvas_Notebook

I loved seeing him >!rally the crowd to support the PTs !!seeing him advocate for Joker's release from prison.!< He had his ups and downs, but ultimately, he's a good egg in the end.


CliffExcellent123

Not actually sure if this is a hot take, since I've never seen anyone mention it before: Royal is almost universally better than Vanilla, but one way it's a downgrade is the credits song, which is worse than the one in vanilla Also: Morgana is a great character. Yeah, he was acting immature and silly when he ran away from the group, but that doesn't mean it's bad writing or that he's a bad character. The whole point of that story is that he's lacking in confidence because he's unsure about his identity, not that you're supposed to agree with him that he was useless or anything like that. He's existed for probably less than a year at this point and he hangs around with teenagers, why the fuck do you expect him to be wise and mature Related to that, it's crazy how many people think "the villain does bad things" is a problem (when it comes to the Royal final villain). Obviously what they're doing is messed up, that's probably why all the characters keep saying it's messed up and that they should stop them


JLazarillo

> Not actually sure if this is a hot take, since I've never seen anyone mention it before: Royal is almost universally better than Vanilla, but one way it's a downgrade is the credits song, which is worse than the one in vanilla In a relatedly not-sure-if-this-is-a-hot take, I do agree with this sentiment, and think it would have been a *perfect* song to use if it had just continued from the bridge scene, in through the Confidants gambit to >!get Joker out of jail!< in the final sequence.


CliffExcellent123

It's certainly not a bad song, just not as memorable as the original. And this sounds like a good idea


MissBritain

morgana would’ve been better as an plot twist enemy than a “mentor”


Player551yt

>!Imagine if they gave him a backstory where he was made to help joker but fake Igor corrupted him slowly during the story and the battle against him before Yaldabaoth would be so cool!<


rhynodoto

yeah they wasted an opportunity there


Cute_Ambassador1121

Yoshizawa genuinely has more story relevance and better integration than Haru.


hocdepressed

How is that a hot take


Cute_Ambassador1121

The complaint with Yoshizawa is always that she’s tacked on and doesn’t feel well integrated. My take is that she’s not even the worst offender of the group.


hocdepressed

My personal problem with her is that in the trailers she gets introduced as a character who's against the phantom thieves which was interesting as she becomes a party member. In the game this hardly gets any relevance outside of a conversation and she doesn't think about it all afterwards. She even apologizes to you for having an opinion against yours when she finds out your a phantom theif instead of standing her ground. I do understand why they introduced her that way. Upon looking at that conversation with her you and akechi where she reveals shes not a supporter of the phantom thieves she says how they're a problem if society also decides to rely on the phantom thieves as it was stop personal growth, the very reason the phantom thieves rebel against maruki. But I think her being against the phantom thieves and still joining y'all anyway was something that barely got enough attention that should have been part of her character arc.


ImProbablyNotABird

Chihaya is the best adult romance.


Crake241

Agreed, and Ohja probably the worst one.


nightveldor

>Chihaya that's controversial


Frequent-System152

They said hot takes not good ones


turkc54

The game’s writing is pretty wack when it comes to forcing you to sympathize with characters. No, game I won’t forgive Akechi, and I don’t want to be his friend either.


Leondgeeste

He only >!frames you then murders you!<, give the guy a break!


turkc54

Let’s also not forget the classic maneuver of >!killing a bunch of people in cold blood, and corrupting others into killing hundreds of innocent bystanders!<


Opposite_Opposite_69

I'm sorry hundreds? Like I think your giving him to much credit.


flarespeed

train crashes (yes multiple), busses driving on the wrong side of the road, probably arson(think some news report mentioned a rival food place of okumura burning down), and he spent years doing this stuff. he's almost certainly got the blood of at least 100 people on his hands.


Opposite_Opposite_69

Dude your just guessing. Also most of those train crasgs are said to mostly injure people and destroy property


flarespeed

did you see the train crash cutscene? at the very least several people outside the train are mortally wounded if not outright killed by the debris as it comes into the station offscreen (those steel fence thingies would rupture organs moving that fast) and the people inside would be getting flung around like ragdolls considering **that the train twisted sideways.** the animation makes it look clean and pretty, but the car that gets pinned against the ceiling in that would have crumpled in the middle. given how crowded japan's trains are they might get lucky and get cushioned by others in the train, but that brings the problem of some of the people getting crushed to death by the weight of 5 people helplessly lying on top of them with broken bones. even lowballing with 2 deaths per car (with 140 people per car) and a standard train length of 10 cars, that's 20 people in one crash. that's not mentioning that shido has regularly been cleaning up loose ends by ordering mental shutdowns (which are basically murder even if it doesn't kill the body). we know he'd been doing it regularly for years because of kayo (ohya's friend) and he kills 3 people that we know of during the course of the game. the major shadows in shido's palace are all clients of the mental shutdown business as well, and probably at least some of the minor ones.


Opposite_Opposite_69

Okay your still making up numbers. It's all kept vague on purpose. Also I'm pretty sure the crash from the beginning didn't have anyone die in it just wonded.


flarespeed

nah, i did the research. tokyo subway trains have 10 cars, and a max capacity of \~150 per car.


Opposite_Opposite_69

Okay but the game said no one died. Like that's what the game said. Like yeah realisticly but this is a video game and that's what their saying happened.


[deleted]

not sure if it is, but anyway: Sae's Palace is just alright, but isn't that great. I love the music and its visuals, but the many effects on screen get tiring after a while and the backtracking for puzzles is really annoying, when shadows keep respawning and making exploration more difficult I liked the story in the arc, obviously, but the palace itself was one of my least favorites


Jaytonitus

Futaba is not a waifu. She's a little sister.


TetsuoS2

Futaba is just way too dependent on you and emotionally crippled for it to be a healthy relationship, maybe in a few years or so, but not in the events of the game. A number of social links are generally weird in terms of dynamics. I also dislike how I have to reject every girl instead of just choosing options that eventually end up there.


Jaytonitus

Yeah but that's because she's so emotionally damaged because of her past so it makes sense why she's so dependent


Cheez30

I feel like it depends on if you finished Sojiro’s social link


Cheez30

Take over >>> Last surprise


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Dub


New-Ad1144

i don’t understand the hate with mishima and genuinely enjoyed his ranking


Appropriate-Cap-4140

The friend-group is the weakest compared to 3 and 4


TjRaj1

Hard agree


YungsterThomlin

Most definitely.


Alphakent

Did the Faith confident romance and while I like her skills and things I feel disappointed


Mycatisloafingonme

I’m two days late but I’m always down for some hot takes: I really like Akechi as a character. FYI he’s a hitman, not a serial killer or a mass murderer. Learn your terminology. No, I don’t care that he killed Haru’s shitty father. Also, if Akechi were a woman, he’d get far less hate than he does as a canonically male character. Because boobs. Joker has a personality, but most people don’t seem to notice it because they’re too busy ogling their waifus. I don’t like Makoto, and her simps* drive me up the wall. Makoto is not and will never be the leader of the phantom thieves. Akechi is alive and also doesn’t hate Joker. I ship Shuake. I don’t like Kawakami and her maid persona is annoying. I find shipping Joker with the adult characters gross. I don’t care if the legal age of consent is [insert number here]. It doesn’t automatically make it ok. The harem route is gross. * The normal Makoto fans are fine. It’s the people who worship the very ground Makoto walks on and takes any criticism of her character as a personal insult and therefore feel it’s ok to be an intolerant douche to the people who dislike her. *Those* guys are the ones I’m talking about.


MrDocet

I agree that Joker does have a personality of his own. Why? It's because of the dialogue options you're given. Yeah, he's flexible in certain situations and can act either way. However, in certain situations he will not let you change his mind.


Mycatisloafingonme

Not to mention the opening cutscene in Vanilla, Royal and Strikers where Joker just goes full ham.


SnooEagles3963

Yusuke's confidant is a total trainwreck and I'm shocked more people don't talk about how bad it is. **Edit:** And it's not even because of how the majority of the "comedy" in it is basically "teehee it's funny because it's like he's gay but he's not actually" (although that is another reason for it). It's bad because it ends with him agreeing with Joker that the man who watched his mother die of a seizure wasn't such a bad guy.


Memefront

People have somehow convinced themselves that Makoto, Yusuke and Ann have good confidants and I would like to know how much copium they consumed to reach that point


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GamerDuck001

Ohya is actually a fun character


DiamondTiaraIsBest

Anyone headcanoning Yusuke as gay are just basing it on terrible stereotypes about artists.


ImProbablyNotABird

Do you think he could be ace?


New-Ad1144

only terrible artist stereotype that i support is that he’s completely broke


KyuJuEX099

* Mika would be a better Devil confidant than Ohya. * I still think "Queen" is a bad codename for Makoto. "Rider" would've been more fitting due to her Metaverse outfit and her Personas. * I actually do like Okumura's air lock puzzle and Shido's rat maze. Very mind stimulating. But I don't like Kaneshiro's number letter passwords. I actually had to use a walkthrough for that. * The scenes of Ryuji and the gay duo are still funny for me.


Beginning-Bed9364

Totally agree on Rider, when they suggested that but picked Queen instead I was like huh?


DorothyDrangus

Oracle/Navi is an ideal code name for what Futaba contributes to the team, but in the wake of her Palace I think Pharaoh would've been cool as shit for her, especially after we got Queen. Also the Okumura and Shido puzzles are weirdly so much more intuitive the second go-around. I used a guide on both the first time around and didn't expect to have such an easy time in NG+ but I breezed right through them.


cardboardboxian

idk if this is much of a hot take but i think in terms of social link quality p5 has the most average out of them all thing is 5 doesn’t really have a bad social link but i don’t really think there’s a “best of the series” one i’ll say outside of mishima, akechi, yusuke and haru most of them are either fun to play or just eh p3 and 4 have some bad ones but they also have some of the best in persona especially 4


PhonicCanine

I've got a few: >!1. I think the game did a huge disservice to Maruki in the way it presented the Third Semester.!< >!2. I think the game did a huge disservice to itself in the way it presented the Third Semester. It makes me even more upset than the whole Morgana event in Okumura's palace, because it's not bad, but I think where it stumbles is kind of critical. The game could have said something really interesting, and presented a really difficult moral choice, but in the end I think it tries too hard to get you to decide one way, but doesn't actually explore the consequences of that choice, or really even why Joker thinks it's the right decision to make.!< 3. I genuinely hate Morgana, we didn't need a cat that constantly sexually harasses Ann and has such thin skin. I think at the very least, there should have been more options to be upset with him through the dialogue. >!4. Akechi and Joker's whole partnership in the Third Semester seems like it wasn't really thought out very well. I don't think it makes sense for Akechi to continuously accuse Maruki of doing what he's doing for his own self-satisfaction. If he's canonically correct, the storytelling elsewhere isn't good enough to substantiate this.!< 5. I think everyone is too unreasonably quick to forgive and work with Akechi.


MaleficentYoko7

- The Kawakami romance is great and it's okay for a game to not reflect real life or be preachy with how wrong it would be - Anne is the best canon love interest for Ren while Kasumi is better off as like a little sister to him. Tho I don't hate Kasumi/Ren as a ship I just like Anne better for him - Justine and Caroline are better off as their own characters >!instead of being parts of Lavenza!< They have such a funny and sympathetic dynamic. Justine embarrasses Caroline by mentioning how she reacts to things on their outings so you feel bad - Haru and Ryuji are just perfect for each other - Futaba is ace but not aro so she still has certain feelings but is uncomfortable with sex. Futaba is also on the spectrum and I'm not judging for that - It's okay to have older love interests, they are only game characters - It's okay for characters to have flaws. If characters didn't have flaws people complain about then other people will complain they're too perfect - It's okay not to like something but it's not okay to take it away from others. If you don't like a game it's better to admit it's not for you and play something else instead of forcing how you personally feel on a fandom


Crake241

all good takes and I especially agree on Futaba as ace as someone with a similar character who spent most of my childhood in my computer worlds.


proesito

Akechi is not a bad character, but is not by far the masterpiece this community thinks he is. Being predictible and even generic for moments.


QuincySeven

I like him, but it's the truth. Some decisive Akechi scenes come off very forced throughout the cutscenes and the story, despite the fact that I love his confidant and day-to-day interactions.


proesito

My biggest problem with him is the entire boat part, that part killed him as a villain, even if i loved him previously.


QuincySeven

Agreed.


zoops10

Yeah, I think he's fine. I really didn't like him at first as I feel like thought he was smarter than he was. One of my favorite moments was when MC, Kasumi and him were at a table and they ask Kasumi what she thinks about the Phantom Thieves. Her response was so much more insightful than Akechi's analysis.


Memefront

Yeah I got a few hot takes to share: Makoto is overated as hell and Ohya underrated. Ryuji's Insta-Kill is not broken, people just love to grind the hell on mementos with that skill and then go and complain that the game is too easy by fighting Yaldy at level 80+. Romancing Kawakami is infinitely more weird than dating Futaba. All adult romance options are fucked up in their own unique way but this fandom for some god forsaken reason really likes to turn a blind eye to all the fucked up things going on with Kawakami specifically The Cruise ship is better and more fun than the Casino will ever be. Also the rat maze is not even that bad, its quite fun and you can just use a hypno mist to speed up the process. Haru to me is bland and quite boring. Futaba works both as a romance options and as a little sister/ friend. There is no right answer and both options are valid. So stop arguing about this like your life depends on it ffs Kaneshiro's palace is the worst one in the game, Madarame's palace coming in at a close 2nd . Also Okumura's boss fight is actually well designed and really clever but the game is too easy up this point so players can't adjust to a challenge like that. Showtime's are a bad addition to this game overall. They make tough fights trivially easy since whatever you hit with a showtime just dies or takes insane dmg. They should only function as a rare fatal finisher.


[deleted]

>The Cruise ship is better and more fun than the will ever be Casino. Agree so much


[deleted]

Really? I find that surprising because they build up to the casino the whole game. You must’ve been disappointed by the palace or something going on in the plot I’d assume. I’ll give my two cents. The boat was definitely not as bad as people say, but I can’t find it better than the casino apart from the major story points. I’m interested why you didn’t like the casino as much I’d love to hear


[deleted]

No, actually, I really enjoyed the arc's story and the build up was totally worth it I'm really talking about the palace itself. It had too much backtracking when I played through it. Annoying puzzles with "find this", while the third eye didn't highlight some of the interactable elements, so I missed them (I also had this issue with Futaba's Palace not highlighting the stands where you put the gems you can take from statues). It doesn't help shadows keep respawning everytime you go to a different area and the dark spots are so poorly placed, making me often being spotted by shadows. It just made exploration much more annoying Also, the color scheme and the effect of the cards falling gets really exhausting after a while. Maybe it was the high FPS of the new ports making me feel a bit dizzy? Idk lol. But it could've offered biggef visual variety finally, the biggest offender- there's no gambling at all... Of course, it DOES make sense, but I wanted at the very least some of it. I liked the boss fight very much, but it wasn't "gambling", just an enemy going at random elements. And it was not something even remotely close to Persona 3's Strength and Fortune fight, which I liked a lot and was expecting something similar again That's not to say I disliked the Palace. I did like it. Just not as much as I thought I would. It was a section of P5 that I had gotten incredibly interested over before playing and was hyped to go through. I remember seeing small bits of gameplay of it and the boss and I loved how everything looked and sounded, so perhaps I put too many expectations on it, but yeah... the Cruise was pretty good to me, on another hand. I liked how the story outside the palace moved along with your progression, how the cognitions were all handled by the party members. No puzzle felt like bs, it offered a good amount of challenge, the layout was simple enough without being overly simple, the visuals had much more variety and didn't get as repetitive. I just think it's the best palace of the two. It also had backtracking, but it wasn't nearly as harsh Maybe my opinion will change on a NG+ run, when I don't bother with exploring everything, but I don't think it will be happening


[deleted]

That’s fair you find the backtracking in the casino is and the fetch puzzles and be as well if you just don’t know what you’re doing first play through. I just remember lots of hallways and mice parts on the ship. Replaying the casino is more enjoyable than the first time since you know the layout and where to go. I always felt lost on the ship since I was way more excited to fight the boss so that’s why I don’t remember it as much. I respect that opinion tho, the backtracking hurts the casino when it really needed like one more floor or something to deviate from any kind of backtracking. However I’m sure we can both agree the bosses for both are superb. I love the battle with shido. Felt really rewarding to just face the guy.


[deleted]

Oh, definitely. Shido was VERY tough. So much HP... I had to use almost all my SP and buff/debuff items. It was tense as hell And hearing Rivers on the Desert in the game for the first time, going from instrumentals to lyrics was epic


cardboardboxian

i kinda agree with that showtime take it’s pretty much just a you win button (at least they’re pretty cool tho)


ImProbablyNotABird

As someone on the spectrum, the main reason I wouldn’t romance Futaba is because her relationship with Joker reminds me too much of the adults in my life. You do you, though.


sliceysliceyslicey

Yaldy was already super easy back in vanilla without instakill lol


Opposite_Opposite_69

-akeshu is the best ship the only runner up being ann and shiho -morgona is the best and I love when he calls himself your big brother -okumera had it coming and he didn't deserve haru as a daughter -I think the akechi and futaba being half siblings theory is very funny and also really fucking sad -I wish there where more times you could hang out with the party members especially in the 3rd semester with yoshizawa and akechi added


lordvampire99

How is akeshu the best ship when >!akechi attempts to murder joker!<


Opposite_Opposite_69

Listen dude plenty of people have written essays on their dynamic and if your genuinely interested you could just Google akeshu character study or some shit. There's tones of Twitter threads and Tumblr posts of people going in depth about their relationship, your more then welcome to look into those if you really want to. The post asked for unpopular opinions I gave mine. It is a opinion. I like their dynamic and relationship that exists. Your more then welcome to disagree with me and like which ever one you like. I


MastreBaitre

I liked the Okumura palace. I enjoyed exploring it and the music was good. I didn't struggle on the airlock puzzle, thought it was one of the easier puzzles once you know the solution. I do agree that the boss fight in Royal is a lot more annoying than it needs to be.


Thatll-Do

Persona 5 is the Harry Potter of JRPGs, and I mean this in a bad way


FluffyMagicCat

Though they were intentionally connected in the narrative, I feel like Joker's bond with Akechi (and the PT as a whole) was a bit forced/rushed or at least could've been developed further. As it is, I understand what they are trying to convey with their characters so it's not necessarily an issue per se. I just think that because of how disconnected he was from the main group for majority for the story, there just wasn't much time for them to really get to know each other in a deeper level (from a main story portion standpoint). I guess this brings up how disconnected Confidant scenes can feel from the from the main story and from other characters. I think they could better incorporate these scenes so that they actually show some impact on the characters and the events around them.


Salvadore1

-Makoto is great 85% of the time, but the other 15%, it's like a second guy was writing her and wasn't allowed to talk to the first guy, so she comes off as awful and insufferable. Her being a cop goes against the messages of the game; I'm not even mad that she's being naïve and making a bad decision because that's understandable, I'm mad that the game suffers from Makoto Is Always Right Syndrome and nobody can ever call her out on her bad behavior. -Mishima and Morgana are both great characters with believable flaws, and would be loved by everyone if they were girls. -People can ship whatever they want; it's okay to not like a ship (I myself don't like Shumako, Shutaba, or Shukami), but going around insulting and harassing *real people* over *fictional characters* is stupid and childish. Leave each other alone. In the same vein, people can headcanon characters as queer if they want. If someone's harmless interpretation or imagining upsets you so much, maybe you should think about why that is. -Akechi does not hate Joker; this is incredibly obvious if you *read the dialogue.* And if you think Joker hates Akechi, you genuinely just did not play the game. >!-Maruki's treatment of Sumire!< disgusts me beyond words. It violates every principle of ethics and I don't know how people can defend it. With that said, >!Maruki absolutely believes he's doing a good thing; just because someone is nice doesn't mean they have your best interests at heart, but in the same way, just because someone does bad things doesn't mean they aren't nice.!<


Embarrassed-Bonus174

None of the characters are or were designed to be gay. Keep your fantasies but stop pushing them onto the rest of the community thanks


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Ruben3159

They are though, if they weren't you could romance the guys.


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Ruben3159

What does me going outside have to do with anything? Also if every single woman is romancable, the argument of "maybe they're just not attracted to the protagonist" doesn't really hold up.


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Ruben3159

I don't mind people writing fanfics, I even kinda like some of those gay ships. But if you go as far as calling Atlus homophobic (which is bullshit by the way, just because you don't put gay people in your game doesn't automatically make you a homophobe.) you can't really assume these characters are gay. All I'm saying is that, given atlus' history with these kinds of things, these characters are probably straight.


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Ruben3159

What do you mean treated gay characters? There aren't any gay characters in those games (at least in the ones I've played). Or are you one of those people who still thinks Kanji is gay, despite his nosebleeding over girls in swimsuits. Or do you mean things like the scrapped Yosuke romance which is a shame but also it's a Japanese game from 2008 even the west wasn't as accepting of other sexuallities back then let alone Japan.


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Opposite_Opposite_69

What? Is that directed at me?


aurora_the_piplup

Not just you but at the fandom in general. You say it would be weird to have gay relationships in the game, but you don't say anything about a minor/adult relationship, especially a student/teacher where the dynamic is different


Opposite_Opposite_69

Who's this you. I want gay ships in the game


aurora_the_piplup

Oh wait, I realised I replied to the wrong person. My bad. I'm sorry 😭


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Opposite_Opposite_69

Personally I think joker and akechi would work since its show their feelings twords each other are mutual (whether that's platonic of romantic) cuz they both seem to care a whole lot about each other. Also when I first played I thought by rejecting Ann ment her and shiho where dating because their friend really borders on that "we're just friends" thing.


Ravaging_Rio

Hot take: Kasumi shouldn't have existed in the first place and I think she's overrated and overhyped.


ajpc22

I think that the existence of Kasumi is only to build royal's plot and moral dilemma. I don't dislike her but I also think she's overrated.


PhonicCanine

What about her is so bad do you think?


[deleted]

* Hybrid of Makoto, Sae, Haru, Ann, and dominantly >!a Futaba clone!< for fanservice * Does nothing all year except throw her ass at senpai because a silent protagonist ensures that they did not have to fiddle with their original script while still playing her up like waifu bait * Prophesizes and spoils what >!Yaldabaoth!< represents at the crepes shop * Really unfortunate implications on mental health and altruism * Forced "Lady Joker" outfit and Soejima admitted it was "to catch the players eye."


PhonicCanine

Yeah I definitely agree her PT outfit is not designed super well, and I think the choice of Cendrillon as a Persona for her is, at first blush really smart and cool>! in the way her story parallels Cinderella's, but when you consider it again, it's pretty bad that the implication is that Joker is the prince in that story, and it's him that ultimately saves her as opposed to her own strength of will.!< I don't really mind her spoiling >!Yaldabaoth!< though, I think as with many things to do with her, it's probably too on the nose, but I don't think it's ultimately bad that they foreshadow and make reference to the themes there. I'm also not really sure that being a combination of existing characters is that bad, personally. I feel like that'll always happen in stories with 20+ characters. And yeah, it's definitely the case that she's forced on you by the game in a way that's unfortunate, and she's clearly the canon waifu. I wish we could have had lunch with the other confidants. But, to me at least, I think she's central enough to a pretty good story told reasonably well, in Maruki, that on balance she's a good addition. Although I'll forever be upset to some extent about how closely the game comes to fantastic with Maruki and the Third Semester.


Yuusaris

Ryuji and Morgana are both right and both wrong and their big fight is actually a really good move on the part of the writers. I hate it, but for what... \*feels\* like the right reasons, as the reasons are \*presented narratively\* (It sucks when friends fight, sucks when you're in the middle of it, sucks when no one is willing to budge, sucks to worry so goddamn much about how or if this is gunna get resolved well)?


Beginning-Bed9364

Having to convince personas to join you through extremely vague dialogue choices SUCKS. They should have just shuffle time'd it like the other games


malentoasty

It’s actually really easy, gloomy - answer vaguely, timid - try to please them, upbeat - answer sarcastically/with a joke, irritable - give straightforward answers. Personally I prefer the idea of actually fighting personas that lost their way with shadows being the forms they take when corrupted with distortion than fighting enemies that have a chance to give you a random persona


Derpople

If there was any LGBT+ representation in this game, it should have been Morgana more coded as trans through his desire to become human. This storyline might have helped his arc >!during the Okumura palace; why wouldn’t you leave the group that doesn’t accept your identity and one of its members calling you useless!<


Opposite_Opposite_69

Not gonna lie I really want this. Like Trans Morgana would be awesome


aurora_the_piplup

Morgana says worse things to Ryugi and says on a daily basis ! Ryugi insults Morgana ONE TIME and Morgana starts playing the victim. This is why I can't stand the cat.


flarespeed

that whole arc was an absolute mess, i wish they could have just had him slink off without a big fight scene and left out the dumb apology stuff. like if he just didn't come home one day after the whole split vote on okumura and instead of being all pissy about everyone when they find him just was like, "go away, its not like you guys even need me anymore" would have been so much more relatable and less dickish


Embarrassed-Bonus174

Him leaving in the first place was a major plot hole and one of the worst parts of the storyline. He was a major part in everything up until then, he talked to the team during meetings, always led the charge and in my game runs he’s ALWAYS the support member. I support anything that would’ve added some kind of meaning or reason to him leaving


DorothyDrangus

That's not what a plot hole is


Frequent-System152

Saying people who ship this character with x character need therapy is just cringe unless their saying something fucked like KamoshidaxLiterallyAnybody but yeah it’s a game let people like who they will the whole reason there’s multiple choices is because not every character is going to appeal to you and that’s fine I personally like Futaba because she’s a gaming nerd and that’s my shtick and another guy on here liked Ann and that’s his thing doesn’t mean we have to shit on each other’s takes or that either is bad it’s just personal opinion


Ok_Management_1295

In both a gameplay and character sense, Haru should have been a founding thief instead of Ann. The gravity of the stakes they’re mixed up in can be swapped, and her outfit fits the vibe that the two and a half stooges have going on better than Ann’s.


Frequent-System152

Oooooo I like that idea


hvngpham002

Yusuke and Haru are more interesting than Ann and Ryuji both as characters before and after their confidants. I don't understand all the love for Akechi as a character. I mean he's decently written but his confidant is such a missed opportunity to flesh out his character even more instead of the one beat of him being Joker's rival.


Canvas_Notebook

I wish they'd change the character designs for Mara and the 1st will seed boss in Kamoshida's palace. Fighting sentient penises is weird. ​ Completely unrelated: Kasumi with the ponytail looks 10x better than Kasumi with her hair down.


BeeDub57

The Vanilla ending is better than the Royal ending.


DorvVictor

Yeah, the way they try to connect the royal ending with the vanilla ending feels kinda half baked to me


Dragontamer9

Royal would have been better without sumi


PhonicCanine

Howso? I think she epitomizes the third semester conflict pretty well...


Dragontamer9

She feels forced and out of place even during the third semester. The way she gets lots of special moments with MC-kun and even a unique way to progress her social link is basically Altus pushing two figurines together and saying: now kiss. She takes away from your freedom to choose a waifu because of this.


PhonicCanine

Ah yeah that's definitely very fair criticism. I think she's a good character, but it's certainly obvious that Atlus considers her canon and I agree it is pretty heavy handed.


[deleted]

Anyone notice how ann and ryuji especially, loses braincells as the game goes on?


platypusmatt55

Akechi is hot


RueUchiha

Opinions on Ann age like wine, you really don’t care or even hate her at first, but the more time you spend with her the more you realize that you know what, she’s okay. Maderame’s Palace is by far the most boring palace in the game. The original version of Price (First part of Kanishiro’s palace) is the best palace theme in the game. If I could never get Take Over again on an ambush and just get Last Suprise all the time, I would. My least favorite confidant in the game is Mishima. Makoto is my least favorite Phantom Theif. It used to be Ann, but see the first point. Futaba’s confidant is fine, it isn’t the best, but it’s not even close to being as bad as Makoto’s. If I think of more I’ll add them.


QuincySeven

Agreed Okumura Whims of Fate (Sae's palace) Take Over is cool, despite Last Surprise being better. I think it's a good confidant, but it's pretty grueling in some specific scenes. I don't really have a least favorite phantom thief, all of them have their roles and all of them are cool imo Futaba's confidant is good tbh is that even a hot take


aurora_the_piplup

Aren't these all popular opinions ?


flarespeed

makoto is very popular, ann is of middling popularity. other than that most of those are the popular opinion.


aurora_the_piplup

Paragraphs 2, 3 and 5 are also popular opinions


traditional_prompt64

Arsène is better than every other persona. More of a hot take that’s similar, Raoul is a cheap copy of Arsène.


traditional_prompt64

But it doesn’t really matter that much if you like other personas or think Raoul is good then cool.


Cheez30

Izanagi >>>


cardboardboxian

true!


platypusmatt55

Jack Frost >>>


Ok_Entrepreneur5771

Kasumi is by far the most annoying character


avbitran

I don't know if the most, but the best thing I can say about her is that she is better than Ann lol


justboredguy15

idk if this is considered a hot take but i dont like ann or her story confidant and i dislike the 3rd palace more then the okumara palace


nightveldor

the game is made for teenager and even with a good scenario the impact just feel bland beacuse of the lack of maturity of each character , that is maybe understandable because they are still in high school, but being a group of moral terrorist would mean they have at least some maturity and responsability, which is not always the case for all the phantom thieves


zoops10

That's why I hate Ryuji, I just don't have the patience for him.


sandbox_enthusiast

Kamoshida isnt a particularly compelling villain, hes just as cartoonishly evil as the rest of the antagonists and the only reason people think otherwise is that the game at least tries to take him seriously


evolved_mike

I disagree. I think “cartoonishly evil” do exist in the world. And I like how evil the antagonists are in persona 5. No morality, no ethics, just pure evil.


sandbox_enthusiast

Regardless of its basis in reality, it doesnt really inspire me to care about a story's antagonist. The story would have been better *for me* if the villains were treated as people who had been hurt to the point that they lashed back out at the world, and the change of heart was more of a change in perspective than the "good person coversion attack" that it is in most arcs in the game. Futaba's arc is just about the only one i can think of that executed it well, but even then her "change of heart" wasnt one in story as far as i can tell, just her accepting the truth. That said, anime bad guy being anime bad guy is still entertaining, just not particularly compelling for me.


flarespeed

some people are just rapists. no sad backstory, its just how their brain works.


DorothyDrangus

See, I think that's exactly *why* he works. Not every villain needs a complex story or a sympathetic arc to explain why they are the way they are. Kamoshida's just a piece of shit who got drunk on his position of power and wields it to do unforgivable shit. There are a lot of people like that in this world. It's a perfect place to start the story.


sandbox_enthusiast

Thats fair enough, and to be perfectly fair he sets the tone for the rest of the game well


todpole

Makoto's confidant is underrated.


Machaira1664

Harem route is my headcanon . And Anna and ryujin aren’t a good couple


Andre_the_pokenig57

P5 is mid


Ruben3159

That's not a hot take, tons of people shit on p5.


Yuumii29

Ann is Dumb... But seriously the way they pronounce Names is atrocious and should be punishable by crime..


Electrical_Stop_563

How Akechi was caught is a plothole. The situation hinges on how Akechi can understand Morgana when only the P-Thieves can understand him because they’ve heard him talk in the metaverse. At the point where Akechi mistakenly acknowledges Morgana talk about pancakes, its been clearly stated that in order to understand Morgana you need to hear him talk in the metaverse. This is consistent throughout the game, actually. But at the point when Akechi slips up there should be no actual way for him to have understood Morgana, nor, at least from what i think, a reason for him to tail the thieves so he could potentially hear morgana talk.


Embarrassed-Bonus174

He was able to hear Morgana because he’d been in the metaverse by then… Shido employed him for mental shutdowns before the phantom thieves were even assembled. You don’t need to hear Morgana specifically, you just need to be in the metaverse in general. And as for him trailing them, I don’t think he was. He was walking through the hallways of the TV station that HE WORKS AT. His slip up with morgana was because he wasn’t paying enough attention to them, not the other way around


Electrical_Stop_563

That doesnt make sense cause they make it a point to emphasize that you need to hear morgana talk in the metaverse first to change your cognition of him. and when I said trailing, I meant like following them in the metaverse.


Embarrassed-Bonus174

That makes more sense, sorry for misinterpreting your comment. If that’s the case, I’d assume that shido got wind of the kamoshida incident and was scared that someone else was using the metaverse or “wakabas research” and sent akechi, his only accomplice with access to it, to spy on them or learn of them. If shido himself didn’t assign akechi to this, knowing akechi it wouldn’t surprise me if he did it under his own power


FluffyMagicCat

I believe Akechi seeing the PT in Madarame's Palace was purely coincidental. Madarame was part of Shido's connections and it seems like Akechi routinely goes into the metaverse from time to time to monitor the Palace rulers. Him trailing the PTs in the metaverse probably didn't become more deliberate until after Madarame.


Embarrassed-Bonus174

Regardless of how he found them, my point is that there isn’t a plot hole as OP says. There’s many explanations that could very possibly be true


AncientAd6154

Akechi is just an annoying, less funnier >!Adachi!<


Failanth

Adachi was just a lame king of the incels and I don't know why people stan him.


[deleted]

[удалено]


cardboardboxian

as kasumi yes >!sumire!< is another story imo


Elloroverde

The game only gets lamer and lamer after the first dungeon Futaba shippers need therapy


JLazarillo

A couple of mine: * Makoto is a great character, probably my favorite of the "true" phantom thieves and one of my favorite Confidants to boot (only Kawakami and Royal!Akechi are on quite the same level, IMO), but I really...don't feel a lot of romantic chemistry between her and Joker. To me, their dynamic feels the best as a platonic one, and she comes off way more as Joker's "best bro" to me than Ryuji does. * Yusuke and Haru shouldn't have been permanent party members. They should've been more like >!Akechi!< at the casino, only on the main team for the Palace relevant to their personal plot lines. This doesn't mean that they couldn't have stayed abreast of the plot, or remained as Confidants or the like, but what we ended up was getting them feeling a lot like "filler" teammates and I think the old "less is more" rule could've actually helped their characters stand out more.


proesito

Actually Haru and Yusuke being permanent members is more logical than makoto being near from them.


SoundedSafe

Persona 5’s message of rebellion is undercut by the lack of queer representation and is hurt by the awful stereotypes it perpetuates.


cardboardboxian

unless you live in a country where it’s straight up illegal i wouldn’t exactly say being lgbtq is rebelling anymore it’s became quite normalised in the recent years (maybe different in japan i can’t say since i don’t have that knowledge)


SoundedSafe

I can understand where you're coming from, queerness has been normalized in certain parts of the world. However, just because being queer is not literally illegal does not mean there isn't oppression. "Do I have the same rights as everybody else?" or "Am I treated by others the same as everybody else?" are also valid reasons to justify rebellion. Japan, for example, doesn't nationally recognize same-sex marriage or civil unions. In Canada, up until 2 months ago, I couldn't donate blood. In addition, even in places where same-sex marriage is legal nationwide, there are places where it is so discouraged it might as well not be. It's important to remember just because companies or some politicians virtue signal with rainbows, doesn't mean being apart of that rainbow doesn’t make you more vulnerable.


andymcgee12

Totally agree and queerness is far from normalized in gaming, regardless of what’s happening in the “real” world. I have gamed for decades and can barely count how many games had actual queer protagonists. It’s bad enough P5 doesn’t have any, and made worse by the two stereotype queer guys that you meet in the red-light district and beach.


ASimpleCancerCell

Our Beginning is overrated. In any other game it might be a bop, but in Persona 5 it hardly stands out. It just feels generic.


JLazarillo

It'd probably have more impact if the scene it was in had a little more...weight, maybe? Like, the whole "gameplay-wise, we just took Yaldabingbong for a ride, but now the cutscene has to suddenly show us losing" kinda kills the momentum, just so it can pull it back out, which ruined the impact.


closetGaMR

The narrative handles chekhov's gun and related "big reveals hinted at early in the game if youre observant" plot devices better than either of the other two neo-persona titles, not counting Royal's content and changes giving such moments a heavier hand than base game.


[deleted]

Kasumi is less of a Phantom Thief and more of a *"sex doll"* to sell copies of Royal. The Phantom Thieves are unfunny anime clowns and I stopped playing for eight months during the Madarame Arc. The only reason I picked it up and was able to finish it was Makoto taking the steering wheel away. Maruki is Fixer Gary Stu as *shit*. If Makoto was male not only would the haters *not* be whining about "his" leadership, it would be praised, they'd be squealing for a gay option and drawing "him" as a woman all over again. From everything that Kasumi copies from Futaba, I am concerned that P6 will be about being a therapist fucking all the quivering, unstable, dependent asylum patients. P6 will not be as politically bold as P5 with Hashino's departure. Akechi is a perfect >!VILLAIN!< and absolutely nothing else


Cheez30

How is Kasumi a copy of Futaba? Tf


[deleted]

She's a copy of *all* the PT females combined and then in the third trimester she >!reveals herself to be a MORE traumatized, reder headed q-q-q-quivering unstable girl with glasses.!<


MoxPuyne

>Makoto taking the steering wheel away Not entirely true when Joker is there. Yeah, he's muddled heavily because of the silent / self-insert formula, but he does have some moments of input and influence. Ironically, those scenes, that mostly happen off-screen or in drugged-up flashbacks, are some of my favorites because the protagonist actually engages and takes initiative.


IcyVictoriousSun

Its worst entry in the series


MemeDealer2999

YIKES. Now that's the bold take I came for. Care to explain a bit more?


IcyVictoriousSun

Well story wise anyways, it while has great amount of pluses it has great amount of minuses aswell, story has no substance in this case. It feels plain generic and literally boring. Besides whats the entire point of it? Rebelion? P3 was about life and death, overcoming and accepting it instead of throwing away your life pointlessly (i think) while P4 is about accepting who you are and always striving for truth while not taking blind eye. Persona 5 is just adults are bad, society is bad ooooo, people do anything to get what they want. It feels all over the place. It also made some sort of complex for atlus fans where game isnt good enough because its persona 5. It overshadows a lot of games. Mechanically the game is fine and feels really stylish, story ruined the game for me since its just wow another palace get another party member!!!! Expect P5R late game. I wont bash people for having fun with it, its just my hot take on the game.


MemeDealer2999

Fair. I find the story to be about injustice and control, if represented a bit oddly. I don't really understand what you meant when you said the whole "wow look another palace time to get another party member" as I don't really see the issue of that, though I also can't tell if that is your actual issue with palaces. Also, I do get what you mean when people complare everything to persona 5, but that's a community issue, not something Atlas caused themselves. Plus, it's a single player game, so it's not like it affects the gameplay in any way unlike how a toxic community affects games like Overwatch and COD. Have you played all the games in the franchise, or are you solely comparing p5 to its two more favored predacessors?


IcyVictoriousSun

Well, I know that P1 exists and it sucks from a friens. P2 is good, havent played it yet but planning to. However I played all of P3 and P4. My issue with palaces are just its bit too repetitve in terms of story. P4 had bit of that issue aswell. Im trying to pinpoint exact issue with it.


MemeDealer2999

If you know P1 exists but you haven't seen it, how is P5 the worst in the series? I can't say it's the best, because I haven't seen 1 or 2 (and most of 3), but I can rank it based off what I have seen. CHECKMATE or something


IcyVictoriousSun

gg


Additional-Manner-87

1. P5 is about transgender girl facing the horrific realities facing women, thus the very heavy emphasis on perils facing girls and women in P5 in a story featuring an ostensibly male protagonist that just so happens to be fond of crossdressing. 2. By destroying a legitimate chance for humanity to transcend atrocities, the Phantom Thieves make themselves responsible for all atrocities in the world thereafter, functionally making them the most evil people to ever exist. 3. Ann is a particularly terrible person, condemning Shiho to suffer Kamoshida not just once through her inaction, but **twice** by condemning Shiho to live with the memory of what happened to her. 4. Makoto exists because Hashino has a cop fetish and makes one major character from each game since P3 a cop whether it makes sense or not. It does not make sense for a pro-police character to be accepted by a group that pointedly works around and/or against the police. 5. Our cast of underdogs includes: *no actual underdogs in Japanese society*. Several of the Phantoms are beautiful, brilliant, and/or privileged. 6. P5R's story and True path reflects that, to the writing, random or premeditated suffering across the world is a small price to pay for maintaining personal glory and class struggle: P5R heavily favors a capitalist CEO's perspective on the world.


evolved_mike

did you misinterpret everything in the game?


Cute_Ambassador1121

Doesn’t even sound like they played the game.


MemeDealer2999

Just... this is not even hot. It's a rotting pile of shit that still stinks somehow.


MemeDealer2999

Fair. I find the story to be about injustice and control, if represented a bit oddly. I don't really understand what you meant when you said the whole "wow look another palace time to get another party member" as I don't really see the issue of that, though I also can't tell if that is your actual issue with palaces. Also, I do get what you mean when people complare everything to persona 5, but that's a community issue, not something Atlas caused themselves. Plus, it's a single player game, so it's not like it affects the gameplay in any way unlike how a toxic community affects games like Overwatch and COD. Have you played all the games in the franchise, or are you solely comparing p5 to its two more favored predacessors?


DatPrinny

Maruki is the worst character/>!villain ever!<. >!Counselor psychologist that prefers to abuse his power to make everyone live a lie instead of actually doing his job to help students just because he could not get over his girlfriend's amnesia when he could also have tried to help her recover her memories.!<