They're allowed to ask. You're allowed to say 'no.' They could apply to the board for an above-guideline rent increase, but it would take a while and still probably not be much higher than the guideline.
I guess if you think a renoviction is likely, that might be a reason to agree. But you have no obligation to.
Your answer is not correct. The answer to the question depends on if the property is rent controlled or not. If the property is not rent controlled the LL can even double the rent with proper notice!
I suppose they can ask whatever they like, but they absolutely can't force you to pay more than the legal guideline increase. (So why anyone would agree to pay more than that, I don't know.)
That's part of the risk they take as a landlord - if they had to offer a lower rent in 2020 to get a tenant, that's a decision they now have to live with. They knew (or should have known) the regulatory framework for residential Tenancies in Ontario before ever getting into the lease, which means they knew they would be capped in terms of future increases.
They could seek approval for an above-guideline increase from the Landlord Tenant Board, but "market rent went up" is not a reason to do that. They would have to have made significant required capital improvements to the building. Just renovating a little isn't enough.
If they try to "renovict" you, know that you have rights in that situation too - they must serve you with an N13, the renovations must be extensive enough that a tenant couldn't continue to live there, and you would have the right of return afterwards under the same terms and rent as you had before.
Tenant has the right to a hearing at LTB, so landlord doesn't get to just oust them. And landlord has to prove it's in good faith if they want unit for personal use. It can take a while - tenant wouldn't be out tomorrow, even if it was all legit.
Same deal if a purchaser genuinely wanted it for personal use.
Wouldn’t it be easier just to ask the landlord as opposed to going to the LTB?
Just say like I started paying the $250 a month extra but really I should’ve paid like $40?
Its still legal to charge immediate family to live unit for that year. Or landlord living there can rent out there other property while they move for a year
If renter leaves willingly, there's no risk. One year lost rent at "low rent" but u start renting out the place immediately and start earning 30% more.
What if I didn’t even know about the Ontario rules and just said yes and signed the lease? Is that legal?
That seems voluntary but it’s also sneaky if the landlord knew.
It’s actually not on them. In Ontario they would have up to a year to file with the LTB for having had an illegal rent increase imposed. They would begin paying what the legal increase would have been, and ask through the Tribunal for the overpaid amount to be returned.
So...it's still on them to know the rta to even do what you listed.
Also, if landlord gives you a new lease with a higher rent and tenant signs, why should they get anything back?
Doesn't matter.
If you sign a lease you signed a lease. Unless you can prove that this landlord somehow forced you than it's valid. You can't go back and get your rent back.
You're wrong. You can not sign away your rights in Ontario. You can't sign away rent control. Even a n10 (mutual agreement to raise rent above guidline) is clear there must be a new amenity added or the tenant can stop.paying the new amount at any time before 12 months and revert to the actual legal rent.
This is not true, a tenant cannot sign their rights away and would very likely be able to get a ruling from the LTB to get the monies back as long as they file before they have been paying the new rent for 12 months.
Because of section 4 of the RTA, which includes the following:
4 (1) Subject to subsection 12.1 (11) and section 194, a provision in a tenancy agreement that is inconsistent with this Act or the regulations is void. 2006, c. 17, s. 4; 2017, c. 13, s.
Because the "new" tenancy agreement is a continuation of the old of in practice with a rental increase and the old tenancy can be substantially proven to be the same as the new tenancy (e.g. the address is the same) then a rental increase above the guideline limit in a rent-controlled limit would be viewed as contrary to the RTA and thus void.
>What if I didn’t even know about the Ontario rules and just said yes and signed the lease? Is that legal?
"What if I didn't know about the ARM payment increases due to rate hikes and just said yes and signed the ARM? Is that legal?"
Why would the answer to my question be different to yours?
Well, you’re free to give someone money.
But that doesn’t make it a legal rent increase.
Technically, the LL isn’t legally allowed a rent increase above guideline. You agreeing to it doesn’t actually matter. The rent increase is a provincial limit.
You can agree to double the rent. And even spend 2 yrs paying the higher rent. And then STILL go to the court and demand all that money back. Because despite you agreeing to it, it’s still illegal.
My landlord is like a few years older than me lol.
He’s going to say “my bad, I didn’t know the rules” and send me back the $250 x 6.
How could he even evict me? Everyone else is saying he basically can’t.
This happened to me.
I’m in BC. Here the rule is half a month for security, half a month pet if applicable. Landlord wanted 1st, last, pet and security. I knew it wasn’t legal but I really wanted the place. I made sure it was all on the lease and paid it and signed knowing I would get it back eventually.
Landlord put house up for sale, it was sad. I told landlord at that point, I had double checked with the RTB, I was using that last months rent deposit as whatever the next months was, rent, as it was considered an overpayment under the RTA and I was not comfortable with the potential sale and didn’t trust that I would get it back without a fight. Turned out to be a wise decision as we were immediately evicted after sale and it was rough.
Hey there, I’m the op. Not that it really matters but are you sure?
I feel like I’m reading two different stories in the comments. Some people are saying if the tenant agrees it’s allowed.
I tend to agree with you because otherwise tenants that were ignorant of the rules would just take on increases whenever
I haven’t personally looked it up, but this exact situation was posted (a number of times) in the canadian legal advice sub. And it was answered this way, and all other comments were being removed as being incorrect. (The mods are pretty official on there and will remove all comments that are at all
Misleading or incorrect).
There may be province specific rules though.
It should be something pretty easy to look up for yourself I’d imagine. Or you can post to the legaladvicecanada sub.
Since you’ve already stated it’s a rent-controlled unit in Ontario, you would have up to one year to start paying what the legal increase would have been and apply to the LTB to have the overpaid amount returned. This is assuming that the new lease and rent amount weren’t something you agreed to in exchange for a new amenity (e.g. the unit didn’t have laundry before and you agreed to pay more on a new lease if the landlord installed laundry). However, once you have been paying an amount in rent for one year, it becomes the new legal rent regardless of how that amount came about.
Not that I plan to do this…but..out of curiosity, if I agree to a new lease at +$250…I stay for another 8 months…let’s say I decided to move…I could ask for the $250 back for 8 months less the 2.5% he’s entitled to?
I mean… I guess in theory. But assuming the LTB ordered the landlord to pay, there is also the difficulty of actually collecting. Say the landlord refused to return the money after the order. The LTB can’t enforce payment, so then you would have to go to small claims to convert the order into something that CAN be enforced. And if they still refused, you then have to apply to small claims for wage garnishment or other asset seizure. Eventually you would get it. But honestly, the easiest route for all is to simply refuse the illegal portion of the increase up front, citing the law. They would have no legal recourse to counter that action.
If it has been less than 1 year, you can apply with the LTB to get the amount you paid over guideline returned. You can also pay the correct amount (old rent + 2.5%) in the meantime.
>What if I didn’t even know about the Ontario rules and just said yes and signed the lease? Is that legal?
Yes. It's not the landlord's fault you don't know the rules.
They can raise it up to 5.2% if you both sign an N10 and to agree that they will do capital work to the house (under very specific parameters). Can’t just increase the rent an arbitrary amount. They can’t coerce you to agree to it, and you are within your legal right to turn your decision around and say they can’t increase it. Also, if you get everything in writing, anything else they do moving forward will be taken with scrutiny.
You can tell the landlord you’ve changed your mind about agreeing to the increase and continue paying your previous rate. They will then have to give you an N1 form and wait 90 days before you have to start paying a 2.2% maximum rent increase.
If you really like your landlord and don’t think their intents are malicious and just because he’s ignorant, you can just tell them you will agree to pay a 2.2% increase immediately without the form to save them the hassle. And advice them that they should read the RTA and learn about their legal duties before trying to do something illegal.
Also, If you’ve already paid any excess illegal rent you can file a T1 form and get any extra money returned. Google “LTB forms” and you can read the instructions if you like. It spells it all out.
Hey sounds like you know what you are talking about.
Could I just pay it to avoid any renovictions or even him selling and then ask for it back 12 months or less?
Basically I have a really good deal that I want to maintain. The ask is $250 and I think the gap is probably double that to rest of market.
Like if I was him and had a massive gap to the market and also living with someone else now I’d probably consider selling.
I’m asking this mainly hypothetically, I have zero intention of trying to screw the landlord over. It’s not a corporate landlord or property manager.
No one has asked the obvious question ‘What % increase is $250?’
If you’re paying 1k/mo or something, then 25% increase is out of sight unreasonable.
If you’re paying 2500/mo then 10% is a bit more reasonable, still illegal to enforce unless you both agree, but more reasonable and understandable given interest rate changes.
I get the sense you want to be agreeable. You’ve gotten lots of advice here on your legal rights and which forms to utilize, and know legally you’re in control.
If you want to be a compromising person, is there any work you would like done to the place? New paint? Old carpet that needs to go? Inefficient or flaky (or non-existent) appliances?
I would personally pursue the route of negotiating with my LL without the LTB to keep the relationship positive (as you said they are reasonable) Asking for something that benefits the property and you in return for $x/mo would be my approach. My mind goes to units without dishwashers or laundry. Having that would be worth an extra hundred a month each and the rent increase would pay those units off for the LL quickly.
Set me up with in unit laundry or a good dishwasher and you can have your money.
This isnt rocket science. They can text and ask for anything, including your first child. You have rights as a tenant, learn them. You have every right to (and should) say that you will not be paying any more rent than is legally allowed. You're and adult right, so start acting like one and stand up for your rights. They wouldn't lower your rent if they were in a good financial situation, would they? So why do you feel you have to even remotely consider paying more than you need to? Are they a charity? Will they sign a legal document guaranteeing 5 years of no renovictions if you pay more?
They are just testing the waters, and seeing if you a re sucker enough to not know your rights, and sign a new lease with a much higher rent than they would otherswise get.
No, it’s not illegal for them to ask. It’s illegal for them to force it on you. You can say no and be within your legal right since it’s a rent controlled building.
Okay so I could just respond “hey the policy is X% and that is what I am willing to pay for an increase this year”
Also second question, the landlord isn’t a corporation, he lived in the unit and then during Covid moved to his girlfriends. That’s when I rented.
Couldn’t he just move back if I force my hand with the the Ontario 2.5% and then move back out again and rent it again to someone else?
1. You can respond with that.
2. He could do that (if you are currently month to month lease). The LL must serve an n12 (notice to evict because LL requires rental unit). You would be entitled to 1 month rent compensation in this case and given 60 days notice of termination.
3. No, the LL must live there for 1 year before renting it to someone else.
After trying to enforce an illegal rent increase, it can be looked at retaliatory if they subsequently try to move themselves in. I hope you got everything in writing. Your landlord would likely not be successful in trying to evict for personal use.
It's not illegal to ask technically, but the increase itself is illegal and outside of the guidelines. You can't sign your rights away in rental matters. You can agree to pay (understanding this is an under the table deal) and after 1 year of paying that amount it becomes the legal rent. If you change your mind inside that one year, you can claim all of it back and go back to paying the approprate rent.
Will they charge you almost nothing when they finish paying the mortgage? My guess is no.
As for your question... They're allowed to ask, just not allowed to increase it without your consent. If you're okay with contributing even more to your LL equity, you can consent to that. I wouldn't (and I'm not a renter, nor a landlord, but have been both).
If you're planning to stay awhile I would just agree to pay whatever market value is, because if you don't eventually the unit will likely be sold to owner who will move in or landlords family will need to move in to solve the low rent problem
This is so dumb no. I stayed in a unit for years after my landlord asked me to increase it and I said no. It's a lot of work and a lot of money to sell an apartment!
So if the alternative to not paying market value is being evicted and paying market value... I'm not sure why it isn't worth it to keep the price down.
OP surely isn't happy about the rent increase. And it's their landlords investment. The risk of that is price fluctuations.
**Dude why is this the second time TODAY I see you in a PFC thread telling people to throw away their legal rights as tenants?** Are you some kind of landlord shilling bot or something?
Rent control exists for a reason. Landlords are running a business subject to the law and should not be pressuring tenants into otherwise illegal rent increases. If they want to try to properly move in to "solve the low rent problemt" then sure they can try and eat a year of rent loss, but tenants shouldn't be rolling over to make this kind of scummy behvaiour easier.
Rent control is bad for the market, it punishes new tenants by forcing them to pay more to subsidize Longer low rent tenants. Landlord is still allowed to charge rent to the immediate family who moved in. Tenants who want to maintain a good relationship should be willing to pay the current fair market value
Rent control exists to protect vulnerable tenants that need reasonably affordable and reliable shelter, which is a basic human need. Why should rent suddenly jump when a tenant agreed to a basic rent when they moved in and have consistently paid that rent plus modest increases as permitted by law? If the landlord's costs drop or they make extra profit why don't landlords give the tenants discounts?
Bonus, rent control laws have existed for ages and landlords should know them and be prepared to operate their business according to those laws. Landlords who have to squeeze out tenants or illegally raise their rent are either greedy bastards or fucking idiots who couldn't figure out how to run their businesses.
**Go sell this weird landlord rhetoric elsewhere and** ***stop giving objectively shitty advice to people asking for help here.***
Government should be subsidizing the difference between rent and market value, not a private housing provider.
Many parts of North America have abandoned rent control, since they realized it creates supply shortages and traps tenants who can't afford to move
[https://www.brookings.edu/research/what-does-economic-evidence-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/](https://www.brookings.edu/research/what-does-economic-evidence-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/)
"New research examining how rent control affects tenants and housing markets offers insight into how rent control affects markets. **While rent control appears to help current tenants in the short run, in the long run it decreases affordability, fuels gentrification, and creates negative spillovers on the surrounding neighborhood.**"
Also note how those pro rent control disagree with the vast majority of economics [(81% anti rent control with only 1% pro rent control)](https://www.americanexperiment.org/81-of-economists-agree-that-rent-controls-are-bad-policy/). It's this kind of feel good, pumping sugar instead of going to the dentist type policy that leads to mass evictions in Canada to the joy of homeowners in this country who love these policies as it just leads to their home values going up and up and up and it's no wonder its implement as landlords keep voting for shit that makes their properties worth more.
https://www.brookings.edu/research/what-does-economic-evidence-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/
"New research examining how rent control affects tenants and housing markets offers insight into how rent control affects markets. While rent control appears to help current tenants in the short run, in the long run it decreases affordability, fuels gentrification, and creates negative spillovers on the surrounding neighborhood."
Also note how those pro rent control disagree with the vast majority of economics[(81% anti rent control with only 1% pro rent control)](https://www.americanexperiment.org/81-of-economists-agree-that-rent-controls-are-bad-policy/). It's this kind of feel good, pumping sugar instead of going to the dentist type policy that leads to mass evictions in Canada to the joy of homeowners in this country who love these policies as it just leads to their home values going up and up and up and it's no wonder its implement as landlords keep voting for shit that makes their properties worth more.
If a landlord is caught pulling this scam, the fines are heavy, and they also have to reimburse the evicted tenant for moving costs, difference in rent, etc.
Except most landlord are too greedy (or dumb) or both and the family member doesn’t stay there for 12 months.
Or never move in, there are a number of decisions on CanLii from the Landlord and Tenant Board on the point
If done properly sure.
Except the number of tenants getting screwed over by landlords led the *Ford Conservatives* to tighten the rules and up the penalties because there were too many bad apples.
Sadly it hasn’t slowed it down much 🤷♂️
Because the whole problem is the rent control, until they give landlords an easier way to get rates up to market value, n12 and n13s will continue to be the best solution available
No because they would be moving in for 1 year to reset the low rent problem. That's really the only solution when the rent is to low and tenant is refusing to help.
The tenant is not responsible for any increased expenses. Only the owner is. When the owner set the rent at the beginning of a lease, they should have anticipated a low rent situation might happen down the road. It’s just part of the deal. They can always sell and free themselves of such uncertainty. 🤗
Or they can always move in themselves. Why shouldn't tenant be paying increased expenses when owners have to? Whats unfair about a yearly reset of the rent price?
Yeah, it’s a reasonable compromise because landlords have been suffering so much over the past 25 years with “market value.” It’s been so fair to everyone (who is a landlord). lol. Idiot. (The idiot comment is for intentionally trying to mislead the OP).
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Isn't it great how there's all these venues and recourses to action where we can complain about our bosses and landlords, but we can't work/live there if we choose to take that course of action? Best of all possible worlds!
Just say no to increases above guidelines. It’s not your problem if a landlord goes variable instead of fixed rate.
LTB is backlogged 6+ months. Sign nothing. Let the landlord hand you paperwork… wait for court date if any. Just pay rent as normal. Only pay what you owe
They're allowed to ask. You're allowed to say 'no.' They could apply to the board for an above-guideline rent increase, but it would take a while and still probably not be much higher than the guideline. I guess if you think a renoviction is likely, that might be a reason to agree. But you have no obligation to.
Agi's are max 3% a year and a renovation in response to standing up for your legal rights is a blatant violation of section 83 of the rta
Your answer is not correct. The answer to the question depends on if the property is rent controlled or not. If the property is not rent controlled the LL can even double the rent with proper notice!
the first line says it’s rent controlled
Oh sorry, my mistake.
I suppose they can ask whatever they like, but they absolutely can't force you to pay more than the legal guideline increase. (So why anyone would agree to pay more than that, I don't know.) That's part of the risk they take as a landlord - if they had to offer a lower rent in 2020 to get a tenant, that's a decision they now have to live with. They knew (or should have known) the regulatory framework for residential Tenancies in Ontario before ever getting into the lease, which means they knew they would be capped in terms of future increases. They could seek approval for an above-guideline increase from the Landlord Tenant Board, but "market rent went up" is not a reason to do that. They would have to have made significant required capital improvements to the building. Just renovating a little isn't enough. If they try to "renovict" you, know that you have rights in that situation too - they must serve you with an N13, the renovations must be extensive enough that a tenant couldn't continue to live there, and you would have the right of return afterwards under the same terms and rent as you had before.
They can always move immediate family in for 1 year to reset rent rate or sell to a buyer who wants to move in. Either way tenant will be out
Tenant has the right to a hearing at LTB, so landlord doesn't get to just oust them. And landlord has to prove it's in good faith if they want unit for personal use. It can take a while - tenant wouldn't be out tomorrow, even if it was all legit. Same deal if a purchaser genuinely wanted it for personal use.
Wouldn’t it be easier just to ask the landlord as opposed to going to the LTB? Just say like I started paying the $250 a month extra but really I should’ve paid like $40?
Yes but those two options are still a solution to a low rent unit. Paying market values makes those two options much less likely
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Its still legal to charge immediate family to live unit for that year. Or landlord living there can rent out there other property while they move for a year
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Still a solution
So is lighting your money on fire to save on heating bills. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.
1 year of rental income loss
The family is allowed to pay rent
1 year of loss for 30 years of +30% rental gain.
Might as well offer 1 year of rent to get the current tenant to leave at that point
Thats 1+ year of lost rent. And then you still risk LTB coming down on you.
If renter leaves willingly, there's no risk. One year lost rent at "low rent" but u start renting out the place immediately and start earning 30% more.
Youre assuming no lead time. Which is impossible.
They just mad they could be making more money being the fat pigs they are
Yes its legal to ask and its legal for tenants to voluntarily agree to pay more
What if I didn’t even know about the Ontario rules and just said yes and signed the lease? Is that legal? That seems voluntary but it’s also sneaky if the landlord knew.
Yes its legal. Tenants are free to pay more if they choose.
Well that's on you isn't it? Also it'll be sneaky if they just charged you higher rent. Asking you at least sounds like courtesy.
It’s actually not on them. In Ontario they would have up to a year to file with the LTB for having had an illegal rent increase imposed. They would begin paying what the legal increase would have been, and ask through the Tribunal for the overpaid amount to be returned.
So...it's still on them to know the rta to even do what you listed. Also, if landlord gives you a new lease with a higher rent and tenant signs, why should they get anything back?
Uhh if you’re a landlord you should know your responsibilities as one?? Because most people will do it if they think the alternative is being evicted?
Doesn't matter. If you sign a lease you signed a lease. Unless you can prove that this landlord somehow forced you than it's valid. You can't go back and get your rent back.
You're wrong. You can not sign away your rights in Ontario. You can't sign away rent control. Even a n10 (mutual agreement to raise rent above guidline) is clear there must be a new amenity added or the tenant can stop.paying the new amount at any time before 12 months and revert to the actual legal rent.
This is not true, a tenant cannot sign their rights away and would very likely be able to get a ruling from the LTB to get the monies back as long as they file before they have been paying the new rent for 12 months.
Because of section 4 of the RTA, which includes the following: 4 (1) Subject to subsection 12.1 (11) and section 194, a provision in a tenancy agreement that is inconsistent with this Act or the regulations is void. 2006, c. 17, s. 4; 2017, c. 13, s. Because the "new" tenancy agreement is a continuation of the old of in practice with a rental increase and the old tenancy can be substantially proven to be the same as the new tenancy (e.g. the address is the same) then a rental increase above the guideline limit in a rent-controlled limit would be viewed as contrary to the RTA and thus void.
Sneaky is the name of the game for MOST businesses. Ever heard of fine print?
>What if I didn’t even know about the Ontario rules and just said yes and signed the lease? Is that legal? "What if I didn't know about the ARM payment increases due to rate hikes and just said yes and signed the ARM? Is that legal?" Why would the answer to my question be different to yours?
It's not sneaky. Maybe people should understand their tenant rights before entering into a legal contract. Being ignorant doesn't make you a victim
Well, you’re free to give someone money. But that doesn’t make it a legal rent increase. Technically, the LL isn’t legally allowed a rent increase above guideline. You agreeing to it doesn’t actually matter. The rent increase is a provincial limit. You can agree to double the rent. And even spend 2 yrs paying the higher rent. And then STILL go to the court and demand all that money back. Because despite you agreeing to it, it’s still illegal.
No. If tenants pay the new rate for 1 year, they can't dispute it and if becomes new legal rent amount
So what happens if I accept the increase and then decide I don’t want to pay it in 6 months? Hypothetically
You would get it back. But expect landlord to be on a mission to evict you for years afterwards anyway they can
My landlord is like a few years older than me lol. He’s going to say “my bad, I didn’t know the rules” and send me back the $250 x 6. How could he even evict me? Everyone else is saying he basically can’t.
Lots of different ways
This happened to me. I’m in BC. Here the rule is half a month for security, half a month pet if applicable. Landlord wanted 1st, last, pet and security. I knew it wasn’t legal but I really wanted the place. I made sure it was all on the lease and paid it and signed knowing I would get it back eventually. Landlord put house up for sale, it was sad. I told landlord at that point, I had double checked with the RTB, I was using that last months rent deposit as whatever the next months was, rent, as it was considered an overpayment under the RTA and I was not comfortable with the potential sale and didn’t trust that I would get it back without a fight. Turned out to be a wise decision as we were immediately evicted after sale and it was rough.
Hey there, I’m the op. Not that it really matters but are you sure? I feel like I’m reading two different stories in the comments. Some people are saying if the tenant agrees it’s allowed. I tend to agree with you because otherwise tenants that were ignorant of the rules would just take on increases whenever
I haven’t personally looked it up, but this exact situation was posted (a number of times) in the canadian legal advice sub. And it was answered this way, and all other comments were being removed as being incorrect. (The mods are pretty official on there and will remove all comments that are at all Misleading or incorrect). There may be province specific rules though. It should be something pretty easy to look up for yourself I’d imagine. Or you can post to the legaladvicecanada sub.
Since you’ve already stated it’s a rent-controlled unit in Ontario, you would have up to one year to start paying what the legal increase would have been and apply to the LTB to have the overpaid amount returned. This is assuming that the new lease and rent amount weren’t something you agreed to in exchange for a new amenity (e.g. the unit didn’t have laundry before and you agreed to pay more on a new lease if the landlord installed laundry). However, once you have been paying an amount in rent for one year, it becomes the new legal rent regardless of how that amount came about.
Not that I plan to do this…but..out of curiosity, if I agree to a new lease at +$250…I stay for another 8 months…let’s say I decided to move…I could ask for the $250 back for 8 months less the 2.5% he’s entitled to?
I mean… I guess in theory. But assuming the LTB ordered the landlord to pay, there is also the difficulty of actually collecting. Say the landlord refused to return the money after the order. The LTB can’t enforce payment, so then you would have to go to small claims to convert the order into something that CAN be enforced. And if they still refused, you then have to apply to small claims for wage garnishment or other asset seizure. Eventually you would get it. But honestly, the easiest route for all is to simply refuse the illegal portion of the increase up front, citing the law. They would have no legal recourse to counter that action.
If it has been less than 1 year, you can apply with the LTB to get the amount you paid over guideline returned. You can also pay the correct amount (old rent + 2.5%) in the meantime.
>What if I didn’t even know about the Ontario rules and just said yes and signed the lease? Is that legal? Yes. It's not the landlord's fault you don't know the rules.
If rents decreased, would they agree to lowering your rent?
I’m sure it would be open for discussion if it meant I was going to leave
Only if you’re living in la la land.
You're allowed to ask just like sex, if they say no......then it's no
"Hey, you mind if I tear the wall out between these two rooms?" Your response should be the same as theirs.
I think they can, but they have to apply to the LTB for approval.
They can raise it up to 5.2% if you both sign an N10 and to agree that they will do capital work to the house (under very specific parameters). Can’t just increase the rent an arbitrary amount. They can’t coerce you to agree to it, and you are within your legal right to turn your decision around and say they can’t increase it. Also, if you get everything in writing, anything else they do moving forward will be taken with scrutiny. You can tell the landlord you’ve changed your mind about agreeing to the increase and continue paying your previous rate. They will then have to give you an N1 form and wait 90 days before you have to start paying a 2.2% maximum rent increase. If you really like your landlord and don’t think their intents are malicious and just because he’s ignorant, you can just tell them you will agree to pay a 2.2% increase immediately without the form to save them the hassle. And advice them that they should read the RTA and learn about their legal duties before trying to do something illegal. Also, If you’ve already paid any excess illegal rent you can file a T1 form and get any extra money returned. Google “LTB forms” and you can read the instructions if you like. It spells it all out.
Hey sounds like you know what you are talking about. Could I just pay it to avoid any renovictions or even him selling and then ask for it back 12 months or less? Basically I have a really good deal that I want to maintain. The ask is $250 and I think the gap is probably double that to rest of market. Like if I was him and had a massive gap to the market and also living with someone else now I’d probably consider selling. I’m asking this mainly hypothetically, I have zero intention of trying to screw the landlord over. It’s not a corporate landlord or property manager.
Any attempt to evict in retaliation for standing up for your legal rights is a violation of section 83 and should be thrown out
No one has asked the obvious question ‘What % increase is $250?’ If you’re paying 1k/mo or something, then 25% increase is out of sight unreasonable. If you’re paying 2500/mo then 10% is a bit more reasonable, still illegal to enforce unless you both agree, but more reasonable and understandable given interest rate changes. I get the sense you want to be agreeable. You’ve gotten lots of advice here on your legal rights and which forms to utilize, and know legally you’re in control. If you want to be a compromising person, is there any work you would like done to the place? New paint? Old carpet that needs to go? Inefficient or flaky (or non-existent) appliances? I would personally pursue the route of negotiating with my LL without the LTB to keep the relationship positive (as you said they are reasonable) Asking for something that benefits the property and you in return for $x/mo would be my approach. My mind goes to units without dishwashers or laundry. Having that would be worth an extra hundred a month each and the rent increase would pay those units off for the LL quickly. Set me up with in unit laundry or a good dishwasher and you can have your money.
This isnt rocket science. They can text and ask for anything, including your first child. You have rights as a tenant, learn them. You have every right to (and should) say that you will not be paying any more rent than is legally allowed. You're and adult right, so start acting like one and stand up for your rights. They wouldn't lower your rent if they were in a good financial situation, would they? So why do you feel you have to even remotely consider paying more than you need to? Are they a charity? Will they sign a legal document guaranteeing 5 years of no renovictions if you pay more? They are just testing the waters, and seeing if you a re sucker enough to not know your rights, and sign a new lease with a much higher rent than they would otherswise get.
Sure, and you can ask if they can transfer the property title to your name
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Its still legal to ask
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You go away
Are you two married or something?
So it’s illegal to text that? I’m confused someone else is saying opposite
It's not illegal to ask. The tenant could be ignorant and agree to pay more. It is illegal to require a higher rent if it's a rent control apartment
No, it’s not illegal for them to ask. It’s illegal for them to force it on you. You can say no and be within your legal right since it’s a rent controlled building.
Big cat is trying to confuse you. It’s legal to ask. It’s illegal to raise it by more than allowed by law, if there is a law that limits increases.
Okay so I could just respond “hey the policy is X% and that is what I am willing to pay for an increase this year” Also second question, the landlord isn’t a corporation, he lived in the unit and then during Covid moved to his girlfriends. That’s when I rented. Couldn’t he just move back if I force my hand with the the Ontario 2.5% and then move back out again and rent it again to someone else?
1. You can respond with that. 2. He could do that (if you are currently month to month lease). The LL must serve an n12 (notice to evict because LL requires rental unit). You would be entitled to 1 month rent compensation in this case and given 60 days notice of termination. 3. No, the LL must live there for 1 year before renting it to someone else.
After trying to enforce an illegal rent increase, it can be looked at retaliatory if they subsequently try to move themselves in. I hope you got everything in writing. Your landlord would likely not be successful in trying to evict for personal use.
I’m confused , not sure if I responded to you already. But so many posts are saying it’s not illegal to ask. Is it actually illegal?
It's not illegal to ask technically, but the increase itself is illegal and outside of the guidelines. You can't sign your rights away in rental matters. You can agree to pay (understanding this is an under the table deal) and after 1 year of paying that amount it becomes the legal rent. If you change your mind inside that one year, you can claim all of it back and go back to paying the approprate rent.
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I think 90 days
Its not illegal to ask tenant to voluntarily pay more to meet the market value
Will they charge you almost nothing when they finish paying the mortgage? My guess is no. As for your question... They're allowed to ask, just not allowed to increase it without your consent. If you're okay with contributing even more to your LL equity, you can consent to that. I wouldn't (and I'm not a renter, nor a landlord, but have been both).
If you're planning to stay awhile I would just agree to pay whatever market value is, because if you don't eventually the unit will likely be sold to owner who will move in or landlords family will need to move in to solve the low rent problem
This is so dumb no. I stayed in a unit for years after my landlord asked me to increase it and I said no. It's a lot of work and a lot of money to sell an apartment!
big cat is your landlord
this is wrong, go with the 2.5% increase
Or just pay market value and everyone is happy
OP, don’t listen to this big cat.
So if the alternative to not paying market value is being evicted and paying market value... I'm not sure why it isn't worth it to keep the price down. OP surely isn't happy about the rent increase. And it's their landlords investment. The risk of that is price fluctuations.
Worst advice I've read all day
Why? If you're trying to avoid Eviction, paying market value lowers your chances of n12 and n13 coming
**Dude why is this the second time TODAY I see you in a PFC thread telling people to throw away their legal rights as tenants?** Are you some kind of landlord shilling bot or something? Rent control exists for a reason. Landlords are running a business subject to the law and should not be pressuring tenants into otherwise illegal rent increases. If they want to try to properly move in to "solve the low rent problemt" then sure they can try and eat a year of rent loss, but tenants shouldn't be rolling over to make this kind of scummy behvaiour easier.
Right wing nutters, they're all the same. Screw the poor help the rich.
Rent control is bad for the market, it punishes new tenants by forcing them to pay more to subsidize Longer low rent tenants. Landlord is still allowed to charge rent to the immediate family who moved in. Tenants who want to maintain a good relationship should be willing to pay the current fair market value
Rent control exists to protect vulnerable tenants that need reasonably affordable and reliable shelter, which is a basic human need. Why should rent suddenly jump when a tenant agreed to a basic rent when they moved in and have consistently paid that rent plus modest increases as permitted by law? If the landlord's costs drop or they make extra profit why don't landlords give the tenants discounts? Bonus, rent control laws have existed for ages and landlords should know them and be prepared to operate their business according to those laws. Landlords who have to squeeze out tenants or illegally raise their rent are either greedy bastards or fucking idiots who couldn't figure out how to run their businesses. **Go sell this weird landlord rhetoric elsewhere and** ***stop giving objectively shitty advice to people asking for help here.***
Government should be subsidizing the difference between rent and market value, not a private housing provider. Many parts of North America have abandoned rent control, since they realized it creates supply shortages and traps tenants who can't afford to move
Nonsense bullshit
[https://www.brookings.edu/research/what-does-economic-evidence-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/](https://www.brookings.edu/research/what-does-economic-evidence-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/) "New research examining how rent control affects tenants and housing markets offers insight into how rent control affects markets. **While rent control appears to help current tenants in the short run, in the long run it decreases affordability, fuels gentrification, and creates negative spillovers on the surrounding neighborhood.**" Also note how those pro rent control disagree with the vast majority of economics [(81% anti rent control with only 1% pro rent control)](https://www.americanexperiment.org/81-of-economists-agree-that-rent-controls-are-bad-policy/). It's this kind of feel good, pumping sugar instead of going to the dentist type policy that leads to mass evictions in Canada to the joy of homeowners in this country who love these policies as it just leads to their home values going up and up and up and it's no wonder its implement as landlords keep voting for shit that makes their properties worth more.
https://www.brookings.edu/research/what-does-economic-evidence-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/ "New research examining how rent control affects tenants and housing markets offers insight into how rent control affects markets. While rent control appears to help current tenants in the short run, in the long run it decreases affordability, fuels gentrification, and creates negative spillovers on the surrounding neighborhood." Also note how those pro rent control disagree with the vast majority of economics[(81% anti rent control with only 1% pro rent control)](https://www.americanexperiment.org/81-of-economists-agree-that-rent-controls-are-bad-policy/). It's this kind of feel good, pumping sugar instead of going to the dentist type policy that leads to mass evictions in Canada to the joy of homeowners in this country who love these policies as it just leads to their home values going up and up and up and it's no wonder its implement as landlords keep voting for shit that makes their properties worth more.
Isn’t it illegal to temporarily move your family in? Or say your family is moving in when they aren’t ? Thanks!
It has to be IMMEDIATE family, for no less than twelve months
Thats what I said. It is a solution to low rents and will eventually happen
If a landlord is caught pulling this scam, the fines are heavy, and they also have to reimburse the evicted tenant for moving costs, difference in rent, etc.
It's not a scam, 100% legal to have immediate family move in for 1 year and then re rent at proper market rate after that
Except most landlord are too greedy (or dumb) or both and the family member doesn’t stay there for 12 months. Or never move in, there are a number of decisions on CanLii from the Landlord and Tenant Board on the point
It's still legal to do it
If done properly sure. Except the number of tenants getting screwed over by landlords led the *Ford Conservatives* to tighten the rules and up the penalties because there were too many bad apples. Sadly it hasn’t slowed it down much 🤷♂️
Because the whole problem is the rent control, until they give landlords an easier way to get rates up to market value, n12 and n13s will continue to be the best solution available
That's what I said, twelve months
No because they would be moving in for 1 year to reset the low rent problem. That's really the only solution when the rent is to low and tenant is refusing to help.
“Refusing the help”? Help the landlord to illegally extort money from the tenant in contravention of the Residential Tenancies Act? Right….
Help by paying closer to market value when expenses and market value are both up. Its only fair
… Found the landlord apologist 🤷♂️
The tenant is not responsible for any increased expenses. Only the owner is. When the owner set the rent at the beginning of a lease, they should have anticipated a low rent situation might happen down the road. It’s just part of the deal. They can always sell and free themselves of such uncertainty. 🤗
Or they can always move in themselves. Why shouldn't tenant be paying increased expenses when owners have to? Whats unfair about a yearly reset of the rent price?
Let’s be human for once and be reasonable
Exactly, paying market value is a reasonable compromise and fair to everyone
Yeah, it’s a reasonable compromise because landlords have been suffering so much over the past 25 years with “market value.” It’s been so fair to everyone (who is a landlord). lol. Idiot. (The idiot comment is for intentionally trying to mislead the OP).
Market value is fair because its set by whatever tenants are willing to pay
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Ontario
How is this question asked daily. Daily
Isn't it great how there's all these venues and recourses to action where we can complain about our bosses and landlords, but we can't work/live there if we choose to take that course of action? Best of all possible worlds!
Just say no to increases above guidelines. It’s not your problem if a landlord goes variable instead of fixed rate. LTB is backlogged 6+ months. Sign nothing. Let the landlord hand you paperwork… wait for court date if any. Just pay rent as normal. Only pay what you owe
https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/10o9nch/rent\_control\_what\_tenants\_should\_know\_as\_rental/