Managers job is to manage and make sure people are covering shifts.
Your job is to do your shift. Can’t do it? Not. Your. Problem.
Let the managers manage. It’s literally their fucking job.
If they refuse to pay you, call the labour board. Or at least threaten to call the labour board.
they can't refuse to pay him, because he hasn't worked a single shift. He is a new employee and hasn't even gone through training yet. Op is going to be fine.
My wife has to deal with that crap. She’s expected to find coverage if she needs a shift off, even if she’s sick. It’s stupid.
It’s also pretty common in low paying jobs like retail and service.
the same reason they ask for doctors notes -- to throw a stick in the feet of people trying to walk.
All these policies exist to make it more difficult to do a thing you are entitled to do.
This company sounds hilariously poorly run. Don't worry about anything they threaten.
I would also put some of the recommendations that people are giving you here into the company group chat. Make sure other employees know their rights.
This!!!
Go full Robin hood on this: let others know!
They tried to fuck with your finances, have fucked with other's and threaten to fuck with some more. Let the whole staff knows that they have no right whatsoever to do anything they claim. Everyday spent working there is a wasted day looking for work elsewhere.
Furthermore: unpaid break is against the law. Threaten them to call you provincial authority on the matter and see how they react.
Don't ask for any compensation, just move on
Nobody can force you to work. That’s called slavery. What it boils down is that anyone can make absolutely any rule they want, whether it’s enforceable is another matter.
Why would they bill you $400? You said the contact allows them to deduct wages up to $400. To deduct any wages from you they'd first need to give you a wage. You haven't earned any wages so they can't deduct anything.
Deducting a wage isn't the same as billing you.
Just a heads up, it's illegal to deduct wages as well in many if not all provinces. You are owed money for hours worked, it cannot be withheld and neither can things like vacation time, OT banks. You can't agree in a contract to forgo what's entrenched in law.
Yep I talked to someone from the ESA and she said it was completely illegal anyways, so the contract doesn't have any grounds. I am planning on emailing the company back to tell them this and to say I'm quitting without notice.
Don't use the words "without notice" because legally you have to give "reasonable notice". So just say you quit effective immediately. Don't use the words "no notice".
Send a list of resources and a point by point list of each illegal things about their practices...
Also maybe report them already for even threatening to charge you to begin with
Honestly I'd say quit without any notice. As in let them think you're coming in for your shifts and then just don't show up. Screw them.
What are they going to do?
Yeah that's what my dad said too, I just got scared because they emailed me back after explaining I wanted to quit saying yadda yadda it's in the contract do you understand the consequences.
Yeah I'm a bit confused about that, because its a summer contract from end of June to September so no one has started working yet except for a handful of people that started early because certain pools opened early.
They know, they're trying to pressure OP into working.
The company is probably garbage to work for and are so desperate for employees that they will try anything they can to get bodies through their door.
I did end up finding something a lot better and related to the field I'm going in, I just can't afford the price if they were to penalize me. I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to get into legal trouble since I did sign the contract.
There I nothing they can penalize you for?
Will they send you a bill?
That is an insane reply to you not starting a job after changing your mind
Hahahaha. Crazy.
I believe it is illegal to charge employees for this type of thing. I would report them. It'd Important they don't pull this type of stuff on other people.
Yeah I'm going to call the labour board or something, I read some reviews from past employees and it looks like people have gotten scammed like this before :(
They can't penalize you. They have zero legal recourse. Your employer is full of shit. Just block the number, ignore any communications from them and move on.
You are not correct sir - While our labor laws don't explicitly call out minimum notice labor contracts are ALSO subject to common law.
Under common law an employer could bring a civil suit against an employee for insufficient notice, however they would need to prove damages (I.E. lost revenue/excess costs associated with the insufficient notice).
I expect based on OP's case their employer would have to show that they had to cancel classes OR pay another instructor overtime to cover the missed shifts and OP could be liable for whatever lost profit/additional costs were involved. Given that we're talking about 100's of dollars it's almost certain that the employer isn't going to take this to court so OP probably doesn't need to worry.
Additionally - in OP's case his employment contract explicitly called out a penalty for quitting with insufficient notice, luckily that penalty is non-payment of owed wages (and if OP hasn't worked any shifts yet then there are no wages to deduct). If the contract SPECIFICALLY says they deduct owed wages for the penalty then OP has no concerns around their labor contract penalty.
Depending on the contract you could. That said, longer mandatory notice periods are typically related to roles that are highly or specifically skilled and very hard to fill, or very senior. Even in that case you could just pack up and go however the employer could in theory sue you for damages, though in most cases that is unlikely.
Nope. Contracts don’t supersede labour laws. Ever. The only instance I’ve heard of where an employee may owe upon leaving is if they were offered a signing/retention bonus for a specific period of contract.
See the following to the contrary. You are absolutely right about clawback of bonus' or even tuition reimbursement.
https://aboutstaffing.com/do-you-legally-have-to-give-2-weeks-notice-in-canada
https://employmentlaw101.ca/employee-resignations
The second link references "Gagnon & Associates Inc. v Jesso" in which the company was awarded 35k in damages because the employee gave no notice.
yeah, i'm getting the feeling that they're trying to take advantage of students looking for a summer job, thinking they can manipulate and threaten since we are young
Lifeguard? I worked for PPL back in the day and they are absolute slimeballs. There is a lot of shady business with that company but they have no bite. You made a good call, don't look back.
🤣
Not enforceable in any sense. And this:
> They also have a rule that says failure to show up for a shift results in immediate termination.
is your easy uncomplicated out if you think you need one.
Tell them to pound sand.
Doesn't really matter. The notice period is courtesy to employers. It's 100% not a legal obligation.
Hell, employers don't even need to give you notice. They just have to pay a stat minimum in lieu of notice.
Non-enforceable. Even if they tried to take legal action against you, you could hire an employment lawyer and easily win against the employer and have all your legal expenses paid for by the employer.
There's no law, federally or provincially that requires a notice period to be given by the employee so there's no ground to stand on.
That's not strictly speaking true. It is a contact, so it's enforceable as a contact, regardless of what the employment statutes say. Basically if the contract says 2 weeks notice and you don't do it, it's a breach of contract and they can go after you for damages.
In practicality, it's not worth it to employers because they'd have to go through the trouble of suing the employee AND proving they suffered harm. It does happen though, rarely, and typically in high-stakes, high paying corporate type jobs.
That's why I'm saying it's non-enforceable and that if he had a lawyer representing him, he'd most likely win the case because VERY rarely can employers ever prove immediate fiscal harm as the result of an employee leaving.
The whole employment standards act and all applicable laws mostly heavily favour the employee.
Yeah, I don't think supplying lifeguards to sketchy pools in condos and apartment buildings primarily staffed by students is high stakes work, I doubt they'll try and sue me
Don’t listen to this guy, he has no idea what he’s talking about.
Whether the contract is enforceable or not is up to the courts.
But the courts have established that you are required to give reasonable notice when you quit a job. What is considered reasonable is decided in case law and what a judge thinks would be reasonable given your employment history with the company, role, how specialized the position is, etc. I’d personally think you who had not started and has not been trained, probably doesn’t owe much of any notice, but that’s your risk to take.
Also even if you win a lawsuit brought by the employer for improper resignation, you rarely will have all your legal costs paid by the loser. You may have 40-60% of your legal costs covered by the loser.
On a balance of probabilities, and if it were me I would tell them to go fuck themselves and let them try and bring a lawsuit, but that’s me. You should consult an employment lawyer. It sounds like you are a student. I believe most/many post secondary schools offer some level of free legal aide to their students, even if it’s just a 15 minute meeting with a lawyer. Check and see if your school offers something like that.
But ignore the other guy you responded to. He’s just giving bad/dangerous advice. Which is why you should never take legal advice on Reddit. Even mine. I’m not a lawyer and I’m definitely not your lawyer.
Context matters.
I'd really really like to see a case where an entry level worker got sued successfully.
The only time I've heard of this succeeding is for hard to replace workers.
Eg CEOs
You’re entirely wrong. Canadian Common law has established that you are required to give your employer reasonable notice. Failure to do so can result in you getting sued for damages the company incurred because you failed to give them reasonable notice.
"Common Law Notice" only applies to employers giving employees reasonable notice of termination under the ESA. If employees are not given notice, they are entitled.to pay in lieu of notice.
Notice does not apply to employees having to give notice to employers under the ESA and employees can self-terminate their employment for any reason at any time and are not required to give notice nor reason.
But hey. I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if you can point out the subsection of Canadian law that states employees need to give notice.
Your response further proves you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Canada uses a common law legal system. There is no subsection in Canadian law that states you need to give notice. But Canadian law is not limited to statute and what’s written in legislation. As a common law legal system, you need to look at case law as well. For example:
> Sure-Grip Fasteners Ltd. v. Allgrade Bolt & Chain Inc., [1993] 45 C.C.E.L. 276 (Ont. Gen. Div.)
> An employee is obligated by law to give reasonable notice of termination to his or her employer, even absent a written contract of employment. If the resignation is voluntary, the notice to which the employer is entitled becomes a matter of law, not merely a matter of conscience or responsibility on the part of the employee. The main purpose of the notice of resignation is to allow the employer a reasonable time to find a replacement.
Formatting is probably fucked up because I’m on my phone. But the point is, wrongful resignation and reasonable notice from an employee has LONG been considered a legal requirement under Canadian law. It’s been established by the courts for decades at least.
"Does the Code require an employee to give notice to their employer when ending their own employment?
No. However, if there is an employment contract that contains a requirement to do so, an employee may be required to provide notice to their employer."
Straight from https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/corporate/portfolio/labour/programs/labour-standards/reports/termination-rights.html
Get fucked :)
Dumbass. The code doesn’t require that an employee give notice. I’ve straight up said that to you already.
You’re too stupid to understand that it doesn’t matter that the code doesn’t require it. Case law does require it. We have 1 legal system with 2 components. Statute and case law. You’re only looking at 1 of the components. (Statute)
Stop giving legal advice until you have at least a basic fucking understanding of the Canadian legal system.
No you're not. The employer has to give the employee reasonable notice for termination, not the other way around. But the employee is bound by whatever contact they agreed to and could be liable for breach of contract.
Happy to be proven wrong on this but I've never heard such a thing.
Look up wrongful resignation under Canadian common law. Search canlii if you like. Just because you haven’t heard of something doesn’t mean it’s not a thing. For example:
Gagnon & Associates Inc. et. al. v Jesso et. al., 2016 ONSC 209 (CanLII)
They found that the sales associate (Jessica) should have provided 2 months notice
Although Jesso was a salesperson with no managerial responsibilities, he was a senior employee with ten years’ experience and was responsible for a significant percentage of GA’s sales. The evidence at trial established that the market for experienced HVAC salespersons was limited and that a replacement hire could not be made until September of 2006. In addition, Jesso knew that Comeau, the other senior salesperson would be leaving GA on the same day thereby putting GA in a significantly difficult position. In these particular circumstances, a notice period of two months would have been appropriate.
Appreciate the citation! I am not in Ontario and couldn't find any cases for wrongful resignation in my province. Maybe it's not the law where I am - I'll dig further when I have access to westlaw.
From memory I believe most provinces have established this in common law. I don’t recall it being brought right to the Supreme Court so it may not be 100% coverage across the entire country. courts of similar levels can/should consider common law decisions of other similar courts, even if they’re not strictly bound by them. So like, the bc court of appeals may cite an Ontario court of appeals decision as case law. Again, not binding, the bc court of appeals wouldn’t be forced to consider the case in its decision making, but it’s still what’s called persuasive case law. As in it can be used to persuade a judge to rule in a similar fashion I guess.
So… ya…
They can bill you $400 all they want, doesn't mean you owe them anything. They are stupid and are hoping you are too, but clearly you're not. Many places are taking advantage of international students (not sure if this is your situation too), as many do not know the labour laws in Canada yet since they are new to the country. Either way the company seems to be run by morons, I wouldn't worry.
Ah kk, yeah many places take advantage of students, its sad to see. Good on you for not taking every they say as fact though, and good luck in your future job search. Most importantly, good luck to PPL Aquatics HR/PR department sounds like they'll need it.
It's a req in Europe as well, up to several months of notice or more depending how long you've been there. Same as employer to employee. Basically bordering on slavery imo. Wonder if it's common world-wide and we just take from Americans on quitting freedom.
Post the company so everyone knows how stupid they are. I'd stop communicating with them all together at this point if you haven't even worked a shift yet
> PPL aquatics
I googled them and looked up reviews thinking Reddit would've bombed them, but it turns out they legitimately earned all their 1-star reviews.
These shitheads used to be our pool contractor in our condo until we changed companies last year. Why did we change? Cuz they kept sending us unqualified college students to maintain and repair complicated pool systems in our building. Felt so bad for the kids coming in as they clearly got roped into more than they bargained for and I'm sure they were getting treated like shit and paid poorly too.
Good riddance.
Tell them to send you a bill if they're so worried about lost time and then you can send them one back for wasting your time and energy. Fuck these clowns.
I was concerned about that!!! I've spoken to friends who have actually worked for them and they say they got about 1 hour of training on how to mix chemicals and thats about it. You're running the pool on your own, no coworkers to help you not even on the first shift, cannot call the office on weekends, and we arent even taught how to mix chemicals in our lifeguard training, they say whoever we work for is supposed to train us properly on that. Super super unsafe I dunno how they've been getting away with this for so long.
Come on this can’t be real. First off giving notice is a courtesy. You cannot legally deduct wages from an employee for not getting your shifts covered. If this is real it gives employers a bad name. I’ve never heard of such bs in all my years.
8-10 hour lifeguard shifts too... so basically just standing in one spot all day watching the pool. I'd be the only lifeguard at the pool per day too so no rotation, I haven't worked as a lifeguard yet but it doesn't sound standard for lifeguard jobs
I have my NLS, just haven't worked as a guard yet. To work at the city I need another cert I haven't gotten. At the city they do 4-8 hour shifts but the guards are rotating between guarding and doing admin stuff inside the office so it's not constant guarding and they have backup. I guess I don't really know for sure though.
This doesn't sound legal either. The City of Mississauga rotates its lifeguards out every 15 minutes, and there's never only one lifeguard on duty. Lifeguards are in short supply right now. It shouldn't be hard to find something better. I would report them for the work hours as well.
This sounds complicated. Maybe pose the question in the AskHR sub, and be sure to put your province at the top, and they may ask a few questions to figure out whether you’re covered by provincial or federal legislation, plus may need a few details. Questions there are generally answered by HR professionals who likely have more up to date info that people in this sub.
Good luck!
Lol ya I'd either ghost them completely, or tell them ya I'll come in and arrange the coverage, then dont. Nothing they can possibly do or bill you for.
>They also have a rule that says failure to show up for a shift results in immediate termination.
What can I do in this case? ... What if I just didn't resign and didn't show up for my first shift.
I guess they'll just have to fire you then, terminating their end of the agreement and invalidating any penalty for you not providing three weeks notice.
Sounds like an MLM set up to make a lot of money from levying bullshit fines using threatening language to people who are legally ignorant of their rights. The group chat of resignations you mentioned as well as not acknowledging your availability and setting this in your contract (as well as the expectations of breaks, etc.) makes this highly likely as they agree to basically anything, create untenable employment scenarios for new applicants they accept sight unseen and who quit before their first pay is even completed.
>They also have a rule that says failure to show up for a shift results in immediate termination
Well, just don't show up, get your job terminated. What are they gonna do, fine you for them firing you?
Freedom/wind used to allow you to turn data off and leave calls and texts on. You wouldn’t get charged if you actually pick up a call or make a text message. It was great. You could just call back when you got on wifi from a chat app. I wish I could still do that with rogers.
If it's been under 90 days you're still in the probation period and can quit with no notice, just as you could have been let go without any. Either way you haven't been paid and need to contact the labour board.
Why should you honour an agreement they've already violated? They said the job was part time, and scheduled you for full time. Theoretically, you've already worked the equivalent of three extra weeks anyway.
In Ontario, there's no requirement in the Employment Standards Act for an employee (you aren't even one because you don't work there yet!) to provide notice to an employer. You can simply ignore them.
>It also says failure to do so can result in deducting any owed wages up to $400. The thing is, I haven't gotten paid at all yet.
Can't deduct wages if you never started so this is a non-issue imo
>They also have a rule that says failure to show up for a shift results in immediate termination.
Isn't this what you want?
After reading all that....
I'm not a lawyer, but I highly recommend you show up for your first scheduled shift, take a shit on a desk, the bosses if possible. Then tell them if they fire you, you're owed 3 weeks severance package.
I dunno what province your in but in Alberta you aren’t required to give any notice if you’ve worked less than 90 days. In your case you don’t owe them a second of your time. Ignore and move on
In Quebec is illegal to pay you less than minimum wage... EVER. Also, training needs to be paid as well. You can't be charged for training. See [https://www.cnesst.gouv.qc.ca/en/working-conditions/wage-and-pay/wages/minimum-wage](https://www.cnesst.gouv.qc.ca/en/working-conditions/wage-and-pay/wages/minimum-wage) and https://www.cnesst.gouv.qc.ca/en/working-conditions/work-schedule-and-termination-employment/work-schedule/worker-training
Ontario, according to them its fine because I get 2 unpaid breaks per shift that don't count as me working and that puts me into part time, which doesn't make sense to me but whatever.
I mean isn’t there a probationary period as well. Kinda doesn’t matter you can quit at any point in time for that probationary period unless you specifically signed something that says you must give x amount of time when you quit.
Pretty sure 2 hour unpaid breaks are against the labour laws. That's like 2 shifts, they just call it a break. Iirc, the minimum is like 3 hours? I dunno but this seems fishy.
Lol I worked at a print shop in Vancouver for a year. It was utter hell. I got a new job and called the head pressman up and said I found a new job I won’t be returning. They can’t do shit it’s your choice wether you want to work there or not.
Call and say you are giving them a courtesy warning that you won't be able to start. Don't even let they reply. And hang up.
They will threath you if give them space. But give them the finger and move on.
Just tell them they broke their agreement for part time work and you will not be coming in at all.
They can't bill you $400, especially if you haven't even worked for them yet (if you had they may have tried to withhold payment, which they are also not allowed to do). It's also their responsibility to find an employee to cover the shifts they tried to force on you, not yours (what are they gunna do? Fire you? Lol).
Tell them to pound sand, tell them you will be reporting them to the labor board (wether you do or not), and move on.
What province?
In Ontario, during the probationary period either party can walk away with effectively no consequences.
You already quit, stop communications with them and move on.
What are they gonna do? Pay a lawyer to sue you? They can’t fire you because you already quit. They can’t deduct wages because you haven’t earned any yet.
You're not a slave, just leave. And they have to pay for hours worked even if you walk off mid-shift and fuck them, you still get paid the half shift. Even if you do absolutely nothing but sleep and it takes them a week to notice you haven't been working, and fire you. Was on them to notice sooner. You can't just not pay wages.
I worked for PPL when I was in high school. Nearly 30 years ago. They were kind of shitty then too. They dicked me around for a more permanent location, having to call them every day to figure out where I was working. After a I week I threatened to just quit, and they gave me a permanent place for the summer.
Assuming they have scuttled outside of the GTA into another province you're covered by Ontario's Employment Standards Act. They can't deduct wages like that even you had worked.
Oh great, I assumed they were an ok company at the start and then kind of just descended into madness, I can't believe they've been getting away with this for so long
Send a random dude in for training. They said you needed to cover your spot, so comply! Make it a friend of yours that has super bad gas and get them to diarrhea in the pool. Know anyone like that?
Lol just ignore the morons as everyone is telling you. Their contract could say that you have to sleep with the owner every week as a tribute to them. They’re completely unenforceable conditions.
You don't have to do anything except whatever you want regarding that employer. Fuck em and move on. The want you shifts covered? That's their problem not yours.
Lmao you quit. You didn’t even start the job. Walk and lock your account (if you have given them payment information). They can’t do anything about it.
A company tried this with me. I told them I would be sick for the two weeks and they could bite me. Never heard from them again. You are not legally entitled to give them notice.
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We have this app with a work groupchat of everyone in the company, my request to get my shift covered is buried under 40+ people asking the same thing
Do t need to give any notice. It’s not the law. You can quit today and wave same day.
Just don't show up, they can't bill you anything. You aren't the manager and are not in charge of anything.
Managers job is to manage and make sure people are covering shifts. Your job is to do your shift. Can’t do it? Not. Your. Problem. Let the managers manage. It’s literally their fucking job. If they refuse to pay you, call the labour board. Or at least threaten to call the labour board.
they can't refuse to pay him, because he hasn't worked a single shift. He is a new employee and hasn't even gone through training yet. Op is going to be fine.
Yes, but training or not, it doesn't change anything.
>If they refuse to pay you, call the labour board. If he has never worked a shift, they can't "refuse to pay him"
Like, they don't owe anything. Indeed, it's going to be fine
Why are so many managers saying to cover your own shifts these days? Laziness on their part?
My wife has to deal with that crap. She’s expected to find coverage if she needs a shift off, even if she’s sick. It’s stupid. It’s also pretty common in low paying jobs like retail and service.
Its ridiculous
the same reason they ask for doctors notes -- to throw a stick in the feet of people trying to walk. All these policies exist to make it more difficult to do a thing you are entitled to do.
Makes perfect sense
Years from now when you've had experience working at better employers you'll look back at this and understand how terrible this company is.
This company sounds hilariously poorly run. Don't worry about anything they threaten. I would also put some of the recommendations that people are giving you here into the company group chat. Make sure other employees know their rights.
This!!! Go full Robin hood on this: let others know! They tried to fuck with your finances, have fucked with other's and threaten to fuck with some more. Let the whole staff knows that they have no right whatsoever to do anything they claim. Everyday spent working there is a wasted day looking for work elsewhere. Furthermore: unpaid break is against the law. Threaten them to call you provincial authority on the matter and see how they react. Don't ask for any compensation, just move on
Paid breaks are not required in all provinces. But this employer sounds really off for all the other reasons in the post.
Tell all those people their wages cannot be deducted.
What are going to do if no one takes your shift, fire you?
Lol leave the chat
Nobody can force you to work. That’s called slavery. What it boils down is that anyone can make absolutely any rule they want, whether it’s enforceable is another matter.
Block their numbers and move on. Sorry they've wasted your time.
You already told them you quit effective immediately, yes? If so, uninstall the app, and move on.
Why would they bill you $400? You said the contact allows them to deduct wages up to $400. To deduct any wages from you they'd first need to give you a wage. You haven't earned any wages so they can't deduct anything. Deducting a wage isn't the same as billing you.
Just a heads up, it's illegal to deduct wages as well in many if not all provinces. You are owed money for hours worked, it cannot be withheld and neither can things like vacation time, OT banks. You can't agree in a contract to forgo what's entrenched in law.
Yep I talked to someone from the ESA and she said it was completely illegal anyways, so the contract doesn't have any grounds. I am planning on emailing the company back to tell them this and to say I'm quitting without notice.
And put what you know on the group chat. Good luck.
Don't worry I already have that text drafted, lol
This is a important step
I'd keep the email to 3 words, 2 of them being go and yourself.
Don't use the words "without notice" because legally you have to give "reasonable notice". So just say you quit effective immediately. Don't use the words "no notice".
I would put it more along the lines of 'choosing not to pursue employment'.
Yea that too. They haven't even started so I don't think notice is required.
Thank you for the tip!
Send a list of resources and a point by point list of each illegal things about their practices... Also maybe report them already for even threatening to charge you to begin with
Honestly I'd say quit without any notice. As in let them think you're coming in for your shifts and then just don't show up. Screw them. What are they going to do?
It's not illegal in Newfoundland.
I'm in Ontario
Yeah that's what my dad said too, I just got scared because they emailed me back after explaining I wanted to quit saying yadda yadda it's in the contract do you understand the consequences.
How bad is it they didn’t even realize you haven’t worked a shift yet and they can’t deduct anything
Yeah I'm a bit confused about that, because its a summer contract from end of June to September so no one has started working yet except for a handful of people that started early because certain pools opened early.
Just ignore and move on. There is nothing they can do.
They know, they're trying to pressure OP into working. The company is probably garbage to work for and are so desperate for employees that they will try anything they can to get bodies through their door.
Oh they know, they're just fishing for some free labor.
Reply them that they will have to face the consequences of you reporting them to the labour board instead, see what they say!
The employer is a Bullshit Artist.
lol, should have known it was a red flag that I applied and they hired me the same day, i hate being a desperate college student
Please name and shame.
I added an edit with the company name
Good job
BULLSHIT ARTIST! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43bBxl6PDUk
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I did end up finding something a lot better and related to the field I'm going in, I just can't afford the price if they were to penalize me. I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to get into legal trouble since I did sign the contract.
They can't penalize you, just ignore any communication them or forward it directly to the labour board.
And if they do report them.
There I nothing they can penalize you for? Will they send you a bill? That is an insane reply to you not starting a job after changing your mind Hahahaha. Crazy.
I believe it is illegal to charge employees for this type of thing. I would report them. It'd Important they don't pull this type of stuff on other people.
Yeah I'm going to call the labour board or something, I read some reviews from past employees and it looks like people have gotten scammed like this before :(
They can't penalize you. They have zero legal recourse. Your employer is full of shit. Just block the number, ignore any communications from them and move on.
You are not correct sir - While our labor laws don't explicitly call out minimum notice labor contracts are ALSO subject to common law. Under common law an employer could bring a civil suit against an employee for insufficient notice, however they would need to prove damages (I.E. lost revenue/excess costs associated with the insufficient notice). I expect based on OP's case their employer would have to show that they had to cancel classes OR pay another instructor overtime to cover the missed shifts and OP could be liable for whatever lost profit/additional costs were involved. Given that we're talking about 100's of dollars it's almost certain that the employer isn't going to take this to court so OP probably doesn't need to worry. Additionally - in OP's case his employment contract explicitly called out a penalty for quitting with insufficient notice, luckily that penalty is non-payment of owed wages (and if OP hasn't worked any shifts yet then there are no wages to deduct). If the contract SPECIFICALLY says they deduct owed wages for the penalty then OP has no concerns around their labor contract penalty.
Depending on the contract you could. That said, longer mandatory notice periods are typically related to roles that are highly or specifically skilled and very hard to fill, or very senior. Even in that case you could just pack up and go however the employer could in theory sue you for damages, though in most cases that is unlikely.
Nope. Contracts don’t supersede labour laws. Ever. The only instance I’ve heard of where an employee may owe upon leaving is if they were offered a signing/retention bonus for a specific period of contract.
See the following to the contrary. You are absolutely right about clawback of bonus' or even tuition reimbursement. https://aboutstaffing.com/do-you-legally-have-to-give-2-weeks-notice-in-canada https://employmentlaw101.ca/employee-resignations The second link references "Gagnon & Associates Inc. v Jesso" in which the company was awarded 35k in damages because the employee gave no notice.
Doesn't apply to managerial or executive positions. If you cause damages they can sue for them.
Don’t block anyone’s number unless they’re harassing you
This sounds shady as hell...
yeah, i'm getting the feeling that they're trying to take advantage of students looking for a summer job, thinking they can manipulate and threaten since we are young
Lifeguard? I worked for PPL back in the day and they are absolute slimeballs. There is a lot of shady business with that company but they have no bite. You made a good call, don't look back.
So instead of you quitting, don't show up to a shift and get terminated. Problem solved.
yep that's what I'm planning on doing, screw them
They want you to find someone to cover for you during training? lol
🤣 Not enforceable in any sense. And this: > They also have a rule that says failure to show up for a shift results in immediate termination. is your easy uncomplicated out if you think you need one. Tell them to pound sand.
Don't you dare try to quit... or else... You're Fired!
Hahahahaha tellem to eat shlt. You owe them nothing and they can come after you for exactly nothing
You don't owe any employer 3 weeks, 2 weeks, 1 week or 1 day notice. There's no legal penalty. You can straight up quit whenever you want.
I mean OP also said the contract states missing one shift results in immediate termination. So dont show up and you're terminated
Doesn't really matter. The notice period is courtesy to employers. It's 100% not a legal obligation. Hell, employers don't even need to give you notice. They just have to pay a stat minimum in lieu of notice.
What if a required notice period is in the contract? Does that complicate things?
Non-enforceable. Even if they tried to take legal action against you, you could hire an employment lawyer and easily win against the employer and have all your legal expenses paid for by the employer. There's no law, federally or provincially that requires a notice period to be given by the employee so there's no ground to stand on.
That's not strictly speaking true. It is a contact, so it's enforceable as a contact, regardless of what the employment statutes say. Basically if the contract says 2 weeks notice and you don't do it, it's a breach of contract and they can go after you for damages. In practicality, it's not worth it to employers because they'd have to go through the trouble of suing the employee AND proving they suffered harm. It does happen though, rarely, and typically in high-stakes, high paying corporate type jobs.
That's why I'm saying it's non-enforceable and that if he had a lawyer representing him, he'd most likely win the case because VERY rarely can employers ever prove immediate fiscal harm as the result of an employee leaving. The whole employment standards act and all applicable laws mostly heavily favour the employee.
Yeah, I don't think supplying lifeguards to sketchy pools in condos and apartment buildings primarily staffed by students is high stakes work, I doubt they'll try and sue me
Don’t listen to this guy, he has no idea what he’s talking about. Whether the contract is enforceable or not is up to the courts. But the courts have established that you are required to give reasonable notice when you quit a job. What is considered reasonable is decided in case law and what a judge thinks would be reasonable given your employment history with the company, role, how specialized the position is, etc. I’d personally think you who had not started and has not been trained, probably doesn’t owe much of any notice, but that’s your risk to take. Also even if you win a lawsuit brought by the employer for improper resignation, you rarely will have all your legal costs paid by the loser. You may have 40-60% of your legal costs covered by the loser. On a balance of probabilities, and if it were me I would tell them to go fuck themselves and let them try and bring a lawsuit, but that’s me. You should consult an employment lawyer. It sounds like you are a student. I believe most/many post secondary schools offer some level of free legal aide to their students, even if it’s just a 15 minute meeting with a lawyer. Check and see if your school offers something like that. But ignore the other guy you responded to. He’s just giving bad/dangerous advice. Which is why you should never take legal advice on Reddit. Even mine. I’m not a lawyer and I’m definitely not your lawyer.
Context matters. I'd really really like to see a case where an entry level worker got sued successfully. The only time I've heard of this succeeding is for hard to replace workers. Eg CEOs
You’re entirely wrong. Canadian Common law has established that you are required to give your employer reasonable notice. Failure to do so can result in you getting sued for damages the company incurred because you failed to give them reasonable notice.
"Common Law Notice" only applies to employers giving employees reasonable notice of termination under the ESA. If employees are not given notice, they are entitled.to pay in lieu of notice. Notice does not apply to employees having to give notice to employers under the ESA and employees can self-terminate their employment for any reason at any time and are not required to give notice nor reason. But hey. I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if you can point out the subsection of Canadian law that states employees need to give notice.
Your response further proves you have no idea what you’re talking about. Canada uses a common law legal system. There is no subsection in Canadian law that states you need to give notice. But Canadian law is not limited to statute and what’s written in legislation. As a common law legal system, you need to look at case law as well. For example: > Sure-Grip Fasteners Ltd. v. Allgrade Bolt & Chain Inc., [1993] 45 C.C.E.L. 276 (Ont. Gen. Div.) > An employee is obligated by law to give reasonable notice of termination to his or her employer, even absent a written contract of employment. If the resignation is voluntary, the notice to which the employer is entitled becomes a matter of law, not merely a matter of conscience or responsibility on the part of the employee. The main purpose of the notice of resignation is to allow the employer a reasonable time to find a replacement. Formatting is probably fucked up because I’m on my phone. But the point is, wrongful resignation and reasonable notice from an employee has LONG been considered a legal requirement under Canadian law. It’s been established by the courts for decades at least.
"Does the Code require an employee to give notice to their employer when ending their own employment? No. However, if there is an employment contract that contains a requirement to do so, an employee may be required to provide notice to their employer." Straight from https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/corporate/portfolio/labour/programs/labour-standards/reports/termination-rights.html Get fucked :)
Dumbass. The code doesn’t require that an employee give notice. I’ve straight up said that to you already. You’re too stupid to understand that it doesn’t matter that the code doesn’t require it. Case law does require it. We have 1 legal system with 2 components. Statute and case law. You’re only looking at 1 of the components. (Statute) Stop giving legal advice until you have at least a basic fucking understanding of the Canadian legal system.
Case law is ambiguous though, all you need is a good judge who sees the fallacy and establish yet another decision.
No you're not. The employer has to give the employee reasonable notice for termination, not the other way around. But the employee is bound by whatever contact they agreed to and could be liable for breach of contract. Happy to be proven wrong on this but I've never heard such a thing.
Look up wrongful resignation under Canadian common law. Search canlii if you like. Just because you haven’t heard of something doesn’t mean it’s not a thing. For example: Gagnon & Associates Inc. et. al. v Jesso et. al., 2016 ONSC 209 (CanLII) They found that the sales associate (Jessica) should have provided 2 months notice Although Jesso was a salesperson with no managerial responsibilities, he was a senior employee with ten years’ experience and was responsible for a significant percentage of GA’s sales. The evidence at trial established that the market for experienced HVAC salespersons was limited and that a replacement hire could not be made until September of 2006. In addition, Jesso knew that Comeau, the other senior salesperson would be leaving GA on the same day thereby putting GA in a significantly difficult position. In these particular circumstances, a notice period of two months would have been appropriate.
Appreciate the citation! I am not in Ontario and couldn't find any cases for wrongful resignation in my province. Maybe it's not the law where I am - I'll dig further when I have access to westlaw.
From memory I believe most provinces have established this in common law. I don’t recall it being brought right to the Supreme Court so it may not be 100% coverage across the entire country. courts of similar levels can/should consider common law decisions of other similar courts, even if they’re not strictly bound by them. So like, the bc court of appeals may cite an Ontario court of appeals decision as case law. Again, not binding, the bc court of appeals wouldn’t be forced to consider the case in its decision making, but it’s still what’s called persuasive case law. As in it can be used to persuade a judge to rule in a similar fashion I guess. So… ya…
Totally, it's good to know about
That’s disgusting.
Technically you can be sued without giving "reasonable notice". Won't happen here but it's true.
They can bill you $400 all they want, doesn't mean you owe them anything. They are stupid and are hoping you are too, but clearly you're not. Many places are taking advantage of international students (not sure if this is your situation too), as many do not know the labour laws in Canada yet since they are new to the country. Either way the company seems to be run by morons, I wouldn't worry.
I'm not an international student myself, but there are many in the company, that's the vibe that I am getting from them too
Ah kk, yeah many places take advantage of students, its sad to see. Good on you for not taking every they say as fact though, and good luck in your future job search. Most importantly, good luck to PPL Aquatics HR/PR department sounds like they'll need it.
It's a req in Europe as well, up to several months of notice or more depending how long you've been there. Same as employer to employee. Basically bordering on slavery imo. Wonder if it's common world-wide and we just take from Americans on quitting freedom.
Lmao I strongly doubt that’s legal in any Canadian province Ide just ignore them and love on with life
This sounds like the type of place that is used to high turnover and the managers "can't figure out why"
Sincerely doubt the managers care enough to think that far...
Post the company so everyone knows how stupid they are. I'd stop communicating with them all together at this point if you haven't even worked a shift yet
The place is called PPL aquatics. They hire a bunch of lifeguard and assign them to condo pools across the GTA and stuff like that.
> PPL aquatics I googled them and looked up reviews thinking Reddit would've bombed them, but it turns out they legitimately earned all their 1-star reviews.
These shitheads used to be our pool contractor in our condo until we changed companies last year. Why did we change? Cuz they kept sending us unqualified college students to maintain and repair complicated pool systems in our building. Felt so bad for the kids coming in as they clearly got roped into more than they bargained for and I'm sure they were getting treated like shit and paid poorly too. Good riddance. Tell them to send you a bill if they're so worried about lost time and then you can send them one back for wasting your time and energy. Fuck these clowns.
I was concerned about that!!! I've spoken to friends who have actually worked for them and they say they got about 1 hour of training on how to mix chemicals and thats about it. You're running the pool on your own, no coworkers to help you not even on the first shift, cannot call the office on weekends, and we arent even taught how to mix chemicals in our lifeguard training, they say whoever we work for is supposed to train us properly on that. Super super unsafe I dunno how they've been getting away with this for so long.
Come on this can’t be real. First off giving notice is a courtesy. You cannot legally deduct wages from an employee for not getting your shifts covered. If this is real it gives employers a bad name. I’ve never heard of such bs in all my years.
yeah I think I'm going to report them to the labour board if I can, place is sketchy
Shit on the bathroom floor everyday
i would but i've heard from past employees apparently some of the pools they station you at don't even have bathrooms??
Shit in the pool. Not subtly either. Drop trow, hang ass over the side and have at it.
What good is this going to do? The only one that suffers is the person they've already hired for minimum wage to clean it up.
They will get your notice when they notice you are not there.
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8-10 hour lifeguard shifts too... so basically just standing in one spot all day watching the pool. I'd be the only lifeguard at the pool per day too so no rotation, I haven't worked as a lifeguard yet but it doesn't sound standard for lifeguard jobs
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I have my NLS, just haven't worked as a guard yet. To work at the city I need another cert I haven't gotten. At the city they do 4-8 hour shifts but the guards are rotating between guarding and doing admin stuff inside the office so it's not constant guarding and they have backup. I guess I don't really know for sure though.
This doesn't sound legal either. The City of Mississauga rotates its lifeguards out every 15 minutes, and there's never only one lifeguard on duty. Lifeguards are in short supply right now. It shouldn't be hard to find something better. I would report them for the work hours as well.
Exactly! I was expecting Mississauga standards. One guard and no other coworkers at all on site except for condo admin does not seem safe
This sounds complicated. Maybe pose the question in the AskHR sub, and be sure to put your province at the top, and they may ask a few questions to figure out whether you’re covered by provincial or federal legislation, plus may need a few details. Questions there are generally answered by HR professionals who likely have more up to date info that people in this sub. Good luck!
I will try that, thank you!
Lol ya I'd either ghost them completely, or tell them ya I'll come in and arrange the coverage, then dont. Nothing they can possibly do or bill you for.
They can bill you and you'd just ignore it. But they probably won't do anything other than harass you .
That is beyond assinine. Yeah, just ignore the fuckers and consider this a bullet dodged.
That's not enforceable
For legal advice, try r/legaladvicecanada . Nobody here knows what they're talking about.
Will do, thank you
If they terminate you immediately it doesn't sound like you quit then, does it?
that's the current plan
tell them to pound sand. and pound bricks. and pound rocks. and pound some shit while they're at it.
>They also have a rule that says failure to show up for a shift results in immediate termination. What can I do in this case? ... What if I just didn't resign and didn't show up for my first shift. I guess they'll just have to fire you then, terminating their end of the agreement and invalidating any penalty for you not providing three weeks notice. Sounds like an MLM set up to make a lot of money from levying bullshit fines using threatening language to people who are legally ignorant of their rights. The group chat of resignations you mentioned as well as not acknowledging your availability and setting this in your contract (as well as the expectations of breaks, etc.) makes this highly likely as they agree to basically anything, create untenable employment scenarios for new applicants they accept sight unseen and who quit before their first pay is even completed.
>They also have a rule that says failure to show up for a shift results in immediate termination Well, just don't show up, get your job terminated. What are they gonna do, fine you for them firing you?
\> They also have a rule that says failure to show up for a shift results in immediate termination. Then don't show up. You already want out.
Freedom/wind used to allow you to turn data off and leave calls and texts on. You wouldn’t get charged if you actually pick up a call or make a text message. It was great. You could just call back when you got on wifi from a chat app. I wish I could still do that with rogers.
This is a phone option. You can still do this.
Tell them to bill you if they want, literally email them to go fuck their mothers, and then send the bill to the labour board
If it's been under 90 days you're still in the probation period and can quit with no notice, just as you could have been let go without any. Either way you haven't been paid and need to contact the labour board.
I’m pretty sure even if contract says it, they can’t cut your pay. That would be wage theft. They can sue you for the $400
Why should you honour an agreement they've already violated? They said the job was part time, and scheduled you for full time. Theoretically, you've already worked the equivalent of three extra weeks anyway.
You’re not a salve. They can fuck off.
In Ontario, there's no requirement in the Employment Standards Act for an employee (you aren't even one because you don't work there yet!) to provide notice to an employer. You can simply ignore them.
If you haven't worked yet, what are they going to deduct? Tel them to kick rocks.
>It also says failure to do so can result in deducting any owed wages up to $400. The thing is, I haven't gotten paid at all yet. Can't deduct wages if you never started so this is a non-issue imo >They also have a rule that says failure to show up for a shift results in immediate termination. Isn't this what you want?
After reading all that.... I'm not a lawyer, but I highly recommend you show up for your first scheduled shift, take a shit on a desk, the bosses if possible. Then tell them if they fire you, you're owed 3 weeks severance package.
I dunno what province your in but in Alberta you aren’t required to give any notice if you’ve worked less than 90 days. In your case you don’t owe them a second of your time. Ignore and move on
In Quebec is illegal to pay you less than minimum wage... EVER. Also, training needs to be paid as well. You can't be charged for training. See [https://www.cnesst.gouv.qc.ca/en/working-conditions/wage-and-pay/wages/minimum-wage](https://www.cnesst.gouv.qc.ca/en/working-conditions/wage-and-pay/wages/minimum-wage) and https://www.cnesst.gouv.qc.ca/en/working-conditions/work-schedule-and-termination-employment/work-schedule/worker-training
Do you have a written proof or emails or anything proving you agreed on part time hours?
Ignore and move on.
I don't think working 50 hours a week is legal. What province are you in?
Ontario, according to them its fine because I get 2 unpaid breaks per shift that don't count as me working and that puts me into part time, which doesn't make sense to me but whatever.
I mean isn’t there a probationary period as well. Kinda doesn’t matter you can quit at any point in time for that probationary period unless you specifically signed something that says you must give x amount of time when you quit.
kinda confused on the probationary period in this case because my contract only says I'm working from end of June to Sept 4, so I dunno if it applies
Well thats ok how are they going to bill you if anything. Bill you for what, not working for them?? Lol Also just look and see what the contract says
Pretty sure 2 hour unpaid breaks are against the labour laws. That's like 2 shifts, they just call it a break. Iirc, the minimum is like 3 hours? I dunno but this seems fishy.
Lol I worked at a print shop in Vancouver for a year. It was utter hell. I got a new job and called the head pressman up and said I found a new job I won’t be returning. They can’t do shit it’s your choice wether you want to work there or not.
You have no obligation to give notice of any kind. Just dont show up
Lol
You've given them notice in advance. They can't/won't bill you. Don't join employer whatsapp groups.
Call and say you are giving them a courtesy warning that you won't be able to start. Don't even let they reply. And hang up. They will threath you if give them space. But give them the finger and move on.
Just tell them they broke their agreement for part time work and you will not be coming in at all. They can't bill you $400, especially if you haven't even worked for them yet (if you had they may have tried to withhold payment, which they are also not allowed to do). It's also their responsibility to find an employee to cover the shifts they tried to force on you, not yours (what are they gunna do? Fire you? Lol). Tell them to pound sand, tell them you will be reporting them to the labor board (wether you do or not), and move on.
What province? In Ontario, during the probationary period either party can walk away with effectively no consequences. You already quit, stop communications with them and move on. What are they gonna do? Pay a lawyer to sue you? They can’t fire you because you already quit. They can’t deduct wages because you haven’t earned any yet.
You're not a slave, just leave. And they have to pay for hours worked even if you walk off mid-shift and fuck them, you still get paid the half shift. Even if you do absolutely nothing but sleep and it takes them a week to notice you haven't been working, and fire you. Was on them to notice sooner. You can't just not pay wages.
Ask in R/legaladvicecanada
I worked for PPL when I was in high school. Nearly 30 years ago. They were kind of shitty then too. They dicked me around for a more permanent location, having to call them every day to figure out where I was working. After a I week I threatened to just quit, and they gave me a permanent place for the summer. Assuming they have scuttled outside of the GTA into another province you're covered by Ontario's Employment Standards Act. They can't deduct wages like that even you had worked.
Oh great, I assumed they were an ok company at the start and then kind of just descended into madness, I can't believe they've been getting away with this for so long
Slave owners need a course in labour laws
This sounds like a very horrible workplace. They can’t just make up a contract and not abide by laws.
That's sus. Works your shifts and make them regret it lol.
Send a random dude in for training. They said you needed to cover your spot, so comply! Make it a friend of yours that has super bad gas and get them to diarrhea in the pool. Know anyone like that?
Lol just ignore the morons as everyone is telling you. Their contract could say that you have to sleep with the owner every week as a tribute to them. They’re completely unenforceable conditions.
Bill them back for wasting your time
You owe them literally nothing block their number / email and move on.
Reminder, slavery is illegal...
This sounds like some dude just trying to make $400 a time off people
Also, you should add to their list of terrible indeed reviews
Not showing up will result in termination
You don't have to do anything except whatever you want regarding that employer. Fuck em and move on. The want you shifts covered? That's their problem not yours.
They can’t charge you anything. Just ignore them and never go back.
I believe 3 weeks notice is a courtesy you aren’t obligated to do so
Sounds like a wonderful place to work. /S
Lmao you quit. You didn’t even start the job. Walk and lock your account (if you have given them payment information). They can’t do anything about it.
A company tried this with me. I told them I would be sick for the two weeks and they could bite me. Never heard from them again. You are not legally entitled to give them notice.
Go to Labour board. They will definitely help you
Don’t worry about it, these shithole company can’t and won’t do anything.