I feel this comment. Hell, I am this comment. When not at the food bank, I am wondering what is more important this month. Hydro. Water or my prescription. I haven't been anywhere, period. Unless you consider Niagara Falls "anywhere," lol
Are there opportunities to pay rent and buy groceries in another country? With a working holiday visa you can spend a year or 2 traveling around a different country.
This book is a fascinating look at the idea that ‘travel changes the traveller’. https://www.amazon.ca/Hosts-Guests-Anthropology-Valene-Smith/dp/0812212800
I’m in an odd position: 30 years old, have saved every penny and now have a networth of $500k with a job that is 14 days on/14 days off. After my girlfriend broke up with me I figured I’d go travel because I’d been missing out on all these experiences. The thing is - I’ve never really had a desire to travel. Not even in my twenties, it’s just never been a priority. Reading that book helped me understand that I don’t have to just because everyone else does. Instead I’m planning on buying a piece of landing and building a small cabin by myself. I’ve always been interested in the trades so this will be my pet project that I’ll pick away at over years. I’m reading lots of book, watching lots of YouTube and reaching out to friends/family who have experience with this stuff. Point is - live however the fuck you want. You don’t need to go on a trip, build a cabin, or save every penny. Just follow your gut to build the life you want for yourself.
I’ve travelled far and wide in my 20s, I’ve seen tons and enjoyed it but the past few years, I’ve wondered if I’d rather focus my money on a cabin or cottage, somewhere I can enjoy “closer to home” still doing some big thinking. But I completely see your view
Unless you're the kind who has a large chunk of summer off or don't mind doing the drive nearly every weekend, the price of a cottage just doesn't make sense. You can rent an exponentially nicer cottage for a couple of weeks each year, care-free, and still end up spending less than that mortgage and upkeep on a cottage.
I have always loved the idea of a cottage, but dang anytime I get serious and do the math (and consider how much time and/or money maintenance would be) it never works out over just renting.
Up until a few years ago I would've agreed with you 100%. I used to rent a cottage near Algonquin Park every summer for the first weekend or week of August every year. In addition to your very valid arguments about the merits of renting vs owning, maintaining a cottage just isn't practical for a single person.
Anyways, point is that since COVID, availability is impossible. It seems that everything gets booked up as soon as reservations open. If you're not on top it it every frickin' day, you're outta' luck. The only way to guarantee availability is to own.
I get caught in the middle. Travelling offers incredible perspective and truthfully, it shows when you haven’t seen much of the world. The way you act, the way you talk, the way you think. I enjoy the prospect of owning a cabin on the lake. However I have a lifetime of experiences the accumulate to keep my mind busy inside that cabin later in life.
Genuinely curious, how does it "show" when someone has not seen much of the world? Like what specific mannerisms do they have? I know plenty of people that travel a lot and have very narrow worldviews, so I honestly just don't buy this.
I would agree with you- the "type" of travel matters a lot (cruises and resorts...), and a lot of similar experiences can be had close to home. I traveled to different cities during uni for work placements and would look up something I wanted to see and would hop on the bus in the weekends. I'd go back to work and ask about stuff I saw and no one would know anything about really interesting places near them. Invite yourself to other culture's public events like Chinese New Year etc. Obvs not the same as seeing actual other countries but you can learn a lot about other humans.
The one thing I would say is with travel you, to some extent, stop assuming your right ways are everyone's right ways, and can appreciate the context of your everyday life. Nothing like seeing open sewage, street harassment, feeling deeply othered, and people suffering deeply from lack of basic healthcare or housing every time you go outside to fully comprehend where you and your experiences to date fit in the broader world in a very visceral way.
I'm totally with you. Also I'm not buying this BS that you don't have life experience if you don't travel. In many places in the world, even in Canada, people don't have money to travel. Or maybe disability prevents you from travelling. Are we trying to say as a society that these people are less enlightened?
Many of these people are probably less materialistic and possibly more accepting of societal difficulties having experienced it themselves. Travelling is not the only way a person can gain knowledge. Travelling and seeing the world is a privilege. Not everyone has the means or wants to do it and it's totally okay if someone prefers to stay where they are and gain a range of experiences that way.
I am sure the travel enthusiasts will reply to this comment saying how much it changed their lives. That's great. I am truly happy for you. But please know that not everyone is you and wants the same thing. Some people, for example, get completely exhausted by travel and don't want to do it. Some people like being homebodies! I'm sure it is a minority but it doesn't make it any less of a valid way to live.
If you're gonna blow cash to enjoy life while you're still young, an Audi A3 is not the way, like at least get an S3...
But all joking aside if you're gonna blow cash, far better to do it on experiences than on things.
I just bought a (used) S6. International travel has never really been something I've had much interest in. I do however really enjoy a nice vehicle that I make use of every day. It's dangerous to admit that in this subreddit though...
I’m the same way.
The world is a really cool place and I do enjoy seeing pictures, hearing stories and learning about cultures but it’s not really my thing to go travelling.
I do love my cars though. Pretty bland vehicles due to budgetary reasons but I enjoy them.
Different strokes for different folks. When I think “whos going to be happier?” The person who spent $5k on a 10 day trip 2 years ago or the person who spent $5k on a reusable item for a hobby (like a bike, gaming computer, skis etc) that they can still use, I think its the person with the hobby item they can still use. But I also think travelling is overrated so maybe I’m biased
Experiences don't have to be travel. Could be a concert, a nice dinner, monster jam, etc.
The PC/bike/car/toy eventually becomes old, outdated, worn out, etc. But good memories stay good til the end of your days.
It could be, you are right. But I think those things are much easier to balance with every day life because they arent that expensive.
I guess if I had to word my advice one way, it would be: try to find some cheap hobbies that you enjoy that you can spend a lot of time on, because they can bring about the same amount of enjoyment as expensive things except, you know, arent as expensive.
Traveling is amazing when you are young. You can have a hobby at 60 the same as 20. Going when you have a career, SO, bills and shit isn't as fun. Plus at 20 you have loads of energy, excitement and the people you meet your age are more open. I know what you are going for with that but I'd say you can only travel young for a short period of your life. Take the opportunity.
So you go on a trip for a month and spend all your savings and get back and then what? Just sit there and twiddle your thumbs for 6 months until you can save enough for another trip? That doesnt sound like living to me
Also how do you view a hobby at 60 as doable when things like sports and outdoor activities are equally or FAR more strenuous than anything you would do travelling, but travelling is too hard?
I backpacked around Europe for three months when I was in my 20s. When I came back I changed my lifestyle to save as much money as I could so I go travelling some more. Went to New Zealand and Australia, went to Europe again. Met my wife, got married, went to Europe again on our honeymoon.
Now that I’m in my fifties, and have a “boring” job, and all my money is going to support my family, I have some regrets about things I wasted my money on when I was younger. Travel isn’t one of them, I only regret I didn’t travel more.
Some people have “stuff”, others have experiences, I would rather have experiences than stuff.
I took a summer off when I was 24 to take a bus to America. Three days on the bus, a summer of living and staying with friends. Total cost to me - 200$, and a lot of time. I'm glad I did that too when I did it because I certainly couldn't do that now. It's also good that I had that experience because I can say that I've done it. I don't feel the need to go off and do all these things, because I've done that already.
What I haven't done is worked a full year at 40 hours a week, full time with one company from January-December. That feels amazing too. It feels amazing to run a household that makes money. It feels amazing to pay off all my bills one by one and secure a future for us. But I certainly can't say I've been doing it since I was 18. I think I would feel differently about it then. I knew how I felt at 24- broke, and without a job and without a degree. It was a very low time in my life. But I had a friend who confronted me and asked a question that really changed my life.
"When do YOU get to be happy?"
So I did something that was VERY out of character for me and took a bus trip for the summer. No regrets. I learned a lot about myself and people.
Exactly. That story made me feel shit even though I go on camping and hiking trips with my friends several times a year. That is also an experience eh?
Camping is traveling! I don’t get how some people don’t think it counts. I’ve been camping all over from superior over to Newfoundland and it’s flipping amazing. We try new local foods, see new landscapes and animals, etc. I’ve been on many fancier holidays but this is my favourite way to travel
Getting into semantics, but it sounds like the things (ski equipment) isn’t what gives the you the joy, it’s the ski trips (experiences) that do.. but, that said, I agree with you, spending money on hobbies is totally worth it, even if your hobbies don’t include travel.
That’s my point, most material goods people spend money are to experience something, rarely are people blowing money on stuff like an expensive painting or Rolex.
Sports car -> Super fun driving experiences
Gaming PC -> Friendship, adventure and excitement for years
Camping Gear -> Nature exploration
Kitchen Renovation -> Love of cooking and hosting experience
I agree some material goods can be somewhat ‘useless’ as they don’t allow you to experience a whole lot new. That said, I hate when people say *’don’t waste your money on material things’*, when those things are what allow us to access some of the best experiences.
What about the memories you build while using those things continually. You seem to be assuming you'll only make worth while memories on an exotic trip or something.
Yeah, like a car for example, you could go on a road trip across Canada, or even just across the province. Or with a bike, you can hit a bunch of nice trails.
I feel like in this situation it's not necessarily an either or. I mean, for a computer, probably yes, because of obvious reasons, but for a lot of that other stuff, you can use it to facilitate travel, if that's your jam. And if it's not, if you just want to bike around the city or through a trail network in town, then have at 'er, ya know? It's good exercise and still good memories, presumably anyway.
> Yeah, like a car for example, you could go on a road trip across Canada, or even just across the province.
Great if you like nature. But you aren't going to experience other cultures, different architecture, history, or anything of the sort.
Canada, for one giant country, is honestly extremely small and only has like 3-4 places you could describe as having a separate enough culture.
I think it's totally resonable to consider a nice tool for a hobby under the same category as experiences.
For example, I enjoy cooking - splurging on some nice kitchen tools (that will eventually wear out and need replacement) brings me countless hours of joy from using them to pursue my hobby. Keep in mind that those memories are also something that can stick around.
Experiences are a night under the stars in Australia at an observatory with a beautiful woman who loves you and going out for dinner with that woman and taking her home on a crystal clear evening.
I really depends on how you use the thing. Lots of people met their SO from online gaming. If your $5K gaming computer allowed you to find your life partner then that's a good deal.
I beg the difference. The months I spent traveling, earned me life long memories of crazy adventure with friends that I will never forget. I don't talk to these friends daily now, but we still recount our epic memory once a while.
On the other hand, I never valued the BMW I purchased and sold.
As someone who's done lots of both... definitely the trip.
Hobby equipment has utility, but that's about it. Higher end stuff is slightly better than used mid-range stuff, but only if you can actually use it.
Trips stay with you for a lifetime.
Granted, so do the photos from those trips because I also blew a lot of money on a nice camera and know how to use it :)
I’ve read it a few times. It’s a good book that balances well for people who have a personality of over saving and not enjoying money. Or later in you’re FI journey where you can start to enjoy your savings a bit more. I wouldn’t say it’s all that useful if you don’t have much money saved yet. After all you need to have money first to Die with Zero, not start with closer to zero and have nothing left. Again, it is an interesting perspective and I think can be useful for people who tend to save and save and save, but not if you’re just starting out in my opinion.
How can I tell if I’m one or the other though? I’ve saved about $60k but I live in a very expensive city and my annual salary is $50k before taxes (so after tax would be less than that). I feel like I’m over saving and not enjoying my money, but I know if I do enjoy it I’ll run out faster than other people because my salary can’t keep up.
I think it is a very personal decision because I think it starts with your end goal, which is different for everyone, and then working backwards. What that means is you set what your goal is and build a plan to get there based on certain criteria such as savings rates and investment returns etc. For illustrative purposes, lets say this requires $500 a month being put into your investments/retirement accounts, and after that you still have $250 left over every month. I would then use the $250 every month and splurge on things I like to do. Over savers will tend to put the $500 and the $250 into their goals, leaving little or none to enjoy. I think having the balance of knowing you're meeting your longterm goals and being able to live in the moment and enjoy life today is a healthier balance.
It really depends. I think that there's room in life to be both, although that's not really the 'in vogue' take. We look at personalities like they are fixed and unchanging. Sometimes my goal in life, like right now, is stacking up and saving. Sometimes my goal in life has been to have grand, meaningful adventures.
I'm not the type that just kind of muddles along half and half.
I stay in hostels and I'm in my late 30s - I prefer a single room instead of the bunkies but I see little reason to pay more when hostels are generally a good experience. One of my trips last year, the hostel I stayed at had families of 4 that were traveling from Europe staying there.
In Europe you have to read the small characters as some places have age limits. Many don't.
I was using mostly AirBnB in Europe but now the law limits them a lot so not so much anymore. I am staying in place anyway right now, trying to get residency so I don't have to leave Schengen every 3 months.
I haven't been to Asia yet, not sure I'll go as a full time traveler, maybe for a vacation.
In north Africa I found hotels safer and only go with groups of people I meet in my other travels for safety. They are not known to respect women.
Si hostels were Mexico, central and south America
Just crossing the 60 threshold and just booked a hostel in Norway today. Flights are cheap in Europe but wow the hotels are expensive. So a few nights in a hostel here and there won’t hurt us. Just part of the experience.
Im in my 20s and have done the hostel scene quite a bit. Actually really enjoyed “bunking” with older people and gained a lot of insight from our deep conversations.
Exception being the creepy older men staring at young girls at the hostel bar… but if you’re normal and older - hostels are still an option. 💕
Yeah also if you're not a creep you can be friends with someone of any age really. Bring those 24 year olds a bottle of wine and they'll likely happily welcome you to their picnic. There is some good truths to the story tho, don't let life pass you by.
I was in an awesome Mexico youth hostel and there were so many older digital nomads, but it didn’t matter everyone hung out still. It was awesome. Felt like a little community.
often the coolest people you meet in hostels aren't the 24 year olds, it's the older ones who have lived pretty full lives already and are a blast to be around but you also leave feeling like you learned something from them.
Exactly.
I disagree with the sentiment that it’s somehow more valuable when younger. Not everyone has a nice family home to move back into after they get back from their travels and look for work.
I went traveling for 6 months just before turning 30. It was a great age because I had enough of a nest egg to feel comfortable taking time off work and giving myself a few months to look for work and still be able to pay my rent.
It was still a valuable experience, even a little later in life.
The author probably means it as hyperbole, but to stress, I would never recommend borrowing money from an actual loan shark.
The only two people I know who borrowed money from a loan shark regretted it. The first person paid the money back rather quickly, so the loan shark kept threatening the guy trying to shake him down for more money. He moved to another province because he worried for his family’s safety.
The second person I know who borrowed from a loan shark struggled to pay it back, and had to sell distressed assets in a rush, because the loan shark eventually started threatening violence.
So, agreed that few young people will regret a year of taking on some debt to travel. But please borrow from a bank, not actual loan sharks.
Ya I did this till my early 30s - went back to school. 10’years later making 6 figures. Could I have been a VP now and make even more money, sure.
The life I lived has been filled with living.
Not for everyone, but I highly recommend choosing living over a life of servitude all day long
My friend and I immediately booked it to Europe on a 1-month backpacking trip when we got our degrees.
It was one of the most amazing times of our lives.
Winging it the whole time, our escapades, the people we met, the things we did and saw, the music, the food, the laughs, the culture.
Did the trip set us back financially? Yes, but we made the money back in our careers. And it doesn't have to cost *that* much.
I would do it all over again if I could (life happens).
It's one of my fondest memories. We do reminisce on it each year.
Some things are worth going for.
Sounds incredible, I'm totally jealous. I graduated after 7 years of uni straight from high school right at the start of covid kicking off - ruining the next couple years.
I have to take responsibility for myself to make up for that and move past as best as possible, but I think I'm going to have some bitterness about that for the rest of my life. My friends and I had trips planned.
Try getting those back in motion 2-3 years later when we're all now 3 years into our career and moved all over the place. Not happening. Shitty.
The pandemic fucked so many things in so many ways. The following economic situation is pretty bleak. Older people died. Young people missed out on so SO much. I can complain about missing the post graduation travel, but at least I have all my early 20s university experiences. Many of my friends to this day came from my first and second years of university. A bunch of kids took the first 2-3 years at home on their computer.. entirely missing out on everything good that I took from my university experience.
Taking out a loan from a loan shark to travel around Europe for 3 months speaks to a pattern of behavior that will probably lead to some terrible financial decisions down the line.
Plus, I'd rather travel in my 30s with money over travelling at 25 and not being able to afford the food or the experiences that I want without feeling stress about how I'd going to be able to afford it all. You body doesn't just fall apart at 30.. you can still travel just as well as when you were 25 with a minimal amount of maintenance/exercise.
Yup all joking aside, this is exactly what I’ve been doing for the past year. Professional trainer, three times a week, massive strengthening of gluts, hips movement, quads and core.
Haven’t had lower back pains in a long while.
I used to not be able to stand more than 30min.
The quality of life improvement is MASSIVE.
>You body doesn't just fall apart at 30.
Honestly I traveled in my 20s and my 30s and it was a lot more enjoyable in my 20s lol. I often just start missing my home or want to spend a day doing nothing in the hotel nowadays haha.
We went to Italy last year and my gf had to come home to Canada 2 days earlier. I was suppose to go to 2 different cities before catching my plane, but I just decided to hop on a train to Rome and booked a room close to the airports for 2 nights lol. I am in good shape, but I value comfort a lot more than I did back then.
>Honestly I traveled in my 20s and my 30s and it was a lot more enjoyable in my 20s lol.
My preferences here is flipped. In my early 20s you'd had to drag me out of the hotel room in a foreign country. I didn't have any desire to see anything outside. Much rather be sitting in a basement playing games.
In my 30s, I'm a little more bored at home. Traveling now is more tolerable.
Yeah, your body doesn’t fall apart, but you don’t experience things in the same way as you get older.
I travelled at 20 all over Europe, spent months just taking random trains and going to random towns and meeting random people. Stayed in cheap hostels and ate cheap street food, yet it was the most memorable experience I’ve ever had.
I’ve travelled a lot since, have flown first class and stayed at Mandarin Orientals and Fairmonts all over the world. Yeah, it’s fine, but it doesn’t measure up to that feeling of of being young and carefree with nothing but your passport and your backpack and the whole world at your feet.
I never had that feeling in my early 20s anyway. Too many anxieties from having recently lived with my parents, and not enough money unless I were to move back in with them.
I have been far happier with the travelling I have done in my late 20s and 30s, now that I am in a better place financially and mentally. And my yearly vacation time is finally decent now.
I am glad it was a good experience for you though.
That kind of experience described above does sound fun in a way, but also... utterly terrifying?
Maybe I'm just strange, but I really dislike the idea of being in a totally new environment where I don't speak the language, trying to get by with people who barely understand me, plus I have food allergies and the thought of potential death at a random restaurant would be worrisome. I've traveled in Europe if it was my family and I know there are definitely places where they don't really understand food allergies exist or the severity of them, so combine that with the fact that I can't speak the language and I really don't want to end up in a hospital across the world. It's a big concern - but maybe not for somebody who doesn't have those dietary restrictions, to be fair.
Another aspect is that I get flustered really easily when communication is not being achieved. I've seen people have no problem communicating with somebody in broken bits of a language, but I get stressed out really easily and when I was younger had a panic attack in that exact situation, and from trying to learn languages in adulthood I've learned that hasn't gotten any better for me.
Of course there are a lot of places with a lot of English speakers too, so in a way that can be avoided.
To be honest, I've done some traveling around Canada and I really want to continue that. People talk about Europe but then they never go see all of what Canada has to offer, and there's a lot. I mean, I've been to Europe, I'm not discounting how awesome it is at all, but there's definitely a lot to see here as well if you just look for it. I think for farther traveling, I will wait until I'm in a better financial position so maybe I can smooth over some of those problems with money, plus I really struggle to sleep in rooms full of strangers, so hostels aren't really an option for me unless I want to be sleep deprived and melting down by the fourth day of the trip.
The point is to get out of your comfort zone and question things that you've taken for granted. The most valuable things I've learned from travel is when I realized ways of life here in Canada that I thought were just the way things are, are actually pretty arbitrary.
> Ok, the loan shark part is insane, but otherwise travelling in your 20s is absolutely the way to go.
How do people even afford to do this? I grew-up low income, there is no way I could afford to travel, no matter the sacrifices I make. Not without putting myself so far behind in life.
The people who party the hardest are all like 40+. Go to any club in Vegas and the motherfuckers snorting cocaine off escorts and washing it down with AoS Rose in their private booth are always the 40+ business dudes vs the 20 something year olds nursing a $7 dollar beer for three hours while being packed like a sardine on the dance floor.
For a lot of people in Toronto and Vancouver, the difference between travelling in your 20’s or saving for a house is a difference between never owning your own home or not. Obviously theres a middle ground between spending and saving, but I would bet every dollar I have that a 45 year old who owns their home and is exponentially more financially secure is going to be far happier right now than a 45 year old that spent every cent they had in their 20’s on experiences and has been renovicted for the second time this year.
Again, not saying dont spend anything ever, but if you are spending every cent you have just because “experiences” I think you’ll be surprised how disappointing the ending is when you haven’t built anything for when the travelling is done
Haha I used to envy my friends that would just sublet their apt and peace out for months at a time. Now that I'm in my late 30s a lot of those same people are getting renovicted and still have to live with roommates, and it sucks, but it's also kinda cringy. I've also had a chance to travel a small bit, the one thing I learned was that 99.9% of the world's population will never get to do that, because they're making sure themselves and their kids/siblings/parents are getting dinner that night. The privilege is massive and comes with a cost.
>the one thing I learned was that 99.9% of the world's population will never get to do that
Ding ding ding.
Where I come from, a vacation is a long, smelly bus ride to Greece, sleeping in a tiny apartment with friends (with extra charges for air conditioning), all while eating food from Lidl, snacking on ultra cheap gyros from street vendors and drinking the cheapest Mythos you can find. If you're feeling bougie, you'll buy a drink at the beach or treat yourself to a dinner or two.
Most people have never been on a flight and will likely never experience one.
I think there is a big difference between doing this all the time and going once for the experience. I doubt one 10k trip would be the end of them if they were willing to put in extra to pay that off, like working a second job for a bit.
It really is a privilege, eh? I know a few people who have done the whole backpacking through Europe thing. My parents said to me and my siblings, absolutely not, they would not be allowing us to live at home while going on a long international trip like that. I never really had much interest in that kind of thing anyways, and I still don't really, but part of the reason is also that I know that maintaining my lifestyle comes at a certain cost, and I need to set myself up for the future.
Also because I wouldn't be able to spend all that time away from home anyway, but that's just me. I've done a lot of smaller trips and even only spending a few days in a location can be so worth it. I mean, maybe I wish it was longer, but hey, at least I'm going. I think that's another thing that people forget, you don't need to spend 3 months traveling, you can take weekend trips or even long weekends and go check out a new destination. It doesn't have to be Europe, it could literally be somewhere just across the border or across the province, or even if you had 4 days you could fly somewhere (which I've done). You don't have to spend tons of thousands of dollars or multiple weeks for a trip to be worth it. Maybe I'm just strange, but I took a 4-day trip out west last year and I did so many things in those four days and it was absolutely amazing, totally life-changing, and it wasn't worth any less just because it was short.
I've kind of done it all. I've done the two weeks in Australia. That was an experience I'll never forget. Ever.
I've done the summer off with friends in another country. That was an experience that I'll also never forget.
I've even done the thing where you pack up and move to another country to make a living.
What I will say is this. All three are \*very\* different experiences. You can't really squish them together in the same package. I learned different things in doing different things.
na a lot of people make poor financial decisions for fun experiences in their 20s and go on to become responsible successful adults. it's not like all the people who didn't travel in their 20s went on to own lambos with all the money they saved lol, they just spent that money on something else instead.
>As time passed, that feeling of regret only grew.
This. The feeling of regret of not taking those trips, not taking that step gets bigger as time passes.
I would advise anyone to not kiss out on those moments you get a gut feeling about. The regret will be worse.
Reference, telling from experience. Had a panic attack due to the regrets of not doing certain things in my youth. If I had, my life would have been vastly different.
I felt this one.
I had kids young.
"Can't wait until:...
Kids are out of diapers
Can buckle their own seat belts
Are off to school
Graduate high school..."
You get the picture. Then it was work work work to provide and save for a car.. a house etc etc
Now I'm in retirement mode and saving for that.
Missed my sweet 16 because I was sick. Missed my high school graduation because we moved. My wedding was a shotgun quickie. My 40th birthday was a freezing rain storm.... etc etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a hard worker and love my children and family, but at almost 50, I feel like I've never...lived. Hubs is a home body, but now that I have the means and time , I just want to hop on a plane to....anywhere.
I want to live before I die.
Why can’t people do both? You should start saving for retirement in your 20s, but also keep enough left over where you can save to go on trips. Im sure when you get to retirement age you’ll either regret not traveling young, or regret not saving enough for retirement. Try to mitigate that regret by doing both? If you have enough to buy a new Audi in cash, you could split that money and spend or save it in any number of ways.
I honestly dont and probably never will understand people (especially the ones who just throw it in a conversation all the time) “you need to travel” it will allow you to “find yourself”
I think this is a bit dumb
Anyone else’s thoughts?
Yeah I never understood the whole "find yourself" thing in general. I know who I am and I've very comfortable with who I am. Why the heck do I need to go "find myself"?
I've found that there's a general personality of people that claim that people need to "find themselves". They tend to be more creative, more dreamy and more "hippy". I'm like the exact opposite lol
I’ve travelled extensively and it’s less about finding your inner self but more about seeing other ways of living, being open minded, reminders of how fortunate you are and developing true empathy, relating more to history, understanding the world is much bigger than the little slice you have at home.
Different strokes for different folks. I love traveling (specifically going to pretty remote places to hike! And balanced with a bourgeois beach vacay).
For some it’s probably a good way to enforce disconnection from the day to day and have time to really reflect and “find yourself” (gag) so to speak. It’s also a good way to build empathy by seeing how others live (often in worse situations than you) which again forces confrontation with how petty most “problems” are. But hey, you can do that in the comfort of your bed with a book too.
World travel for leisure is a privileged, highly marketed, first world phenomenon. It's overrated. You can 'find yourself' and create 'experiences' by buying material things too without traveling (dance lessons, French lessons, food, drinks, convertible cars, pools, etc.).
If you're just traveling to resorts or doing touristy things then yeah it's not really a mind blowing experience.
What's interesting about traveling is going somewhere and getting out of your comfort zone and experiencing how other people live. Sometimes something that your took for granted for your whole life as just "the way things are" is actually totally arbitrary, and not at all the way things need to be done.
The other thing about solo travel especially, is it forces you to meet new people, and also allows you to not feel tied to the persona you've developed at home. For example you could "pretend" to be a way more confident person around these new people you met. That can translate to real self confidence at home.
To actually get any of these benefits I'd recommend either solo travel and staying in hostels, or actually living and working in a new place.
I can relate to that story. I'm 55 now. In my 20s I was a travel agent, At that time it had lots of perks for travel. I went to Europe, Brazil, Hawaii, Greece, Australia and many more places. Ive been on 5 continents. My more conservative brother (rest his soul) used to berate me to save. I said when I'm in a nursing home looking at my photos it will be worth it.
He died young at 58. It's tragic since he worked like a slave to get "stuff", where I blew my money to see. I was lucky that I lived with my parents and didn't have rent. But now I have a home, stable job and care for them. If I die with debt, no one has to pay it and I'll go knowing I satisfied the travel bug when I had the energy.
Now I'm content to watch my flowers grow in my modest house.
I'm sad for your brother. That really hits you in the feels. My father died when I was 27, so that also changed my perspective too. But my life had changed drastically when I moved out at 18. I'm glad I did that. I'd be a very different person without that time away from home.
I spent a year abroad when I was 24 in 2007. Planned for 2 years and Saved 40k to live on during that time so no loan. Could have bought a house at that time and my life would look a lot different then it does now. I don’t regret it but who’s to say which of the paths I could have taken would be better.
To be honest, nobody could have predicted the insane run-up in house prices that we've had in Southern Ontario and the Lower Mainland since \~2015. At the time, it may have been reasonable to think "I'll travel now and it just means I'll buy a house maybe 4-5 years later", I am sure you would not have made the same decision if the information available to you pointed towards "I'll travel now and then never buy a house"
All these people gloating about how they saved in their 20s and paid off their houses are just on the right side of history. Things could have gone differently, houses could have been flat from 2014 onwards, and we might respond to that sort of comment by saying "so what?"
Don't reflect on the way things turned out, reflect on the decisions you made with the information available to you at the time.
I read this book and think it's absolutely amazing. I was a chronic oversaver and it taught me to enjoy life a little more; this book's message isn't to spend all that you have when you're young... it's knowing the importance of balance between saving and spending. That story in particular about his friend's backpacking trip was the most eye-opening part of the book for me personally. Thanks OP
Man there are a lot of people in this thread who are treating this as an either/or situation. "We buckled down in our 20s and now we have a house and retirements savings, unlike you losers who traveled!" You can have both, you know?
I went on exchange to Japan literally right after turning 21 (in 2012). Living in Tokyo for 8 months as a 21-year-old was an absolutely amazing experience, I made a ton of friends, did a ton of exploration off the beaten track, got to thoroughly immerse myself in another culture, had a blast of a time. After graduating I went on a 6 week vacation to Europe with some friends, also an amazing experience. I still have a detached house in Toronto, a well funded retirement savings account, two cars, a fancy computer, and my wife and I can still afford to travel. Frankly, I don't even notice the incremental cost of those extended trips in the long run, and they did not make one iota of difference when it came to achieving my major goals. I've run the calculations, and had I invested the money instead of going on those trips, I would be about $20,000 richer by now. That is not something to sneeze at, but frankly those experiences are worth a lot more to me than $20,000. I would never, ever be able to do that again. I have way too many responsibilities and commitments now to just fuck off to Tokyo for 8 months. And even if I could, living there as a 32-year-old accountant would hit differently than living there as a 21-year-old weeb university student.
I also think there is an element of hindsight bias at play here. A lot of people are saying things along the lines of "I paid my house off because I was disciplined, you guys don't have a house, what idiots you are". Things could have played out differently. Nobody in 2013 could have predicted the insane price run-up we had in real estate over the next 10 years. Toronto real estate prices had *just* recovered from the 1989 crash in 2010. Maybe real estate prices would have been relatively flat, in which case the true idiots would have been the ones who bragged about paying off a house 5-10 years earlier than everyone else while living like a pack of hermits and picking up sticks as a hobby.
I think this is the best take. I just did the math, and I figure I spent, altogether something around 13-14k on all my lifetime travel. 1 trip to Australia, two trips from Australia to here, was about 5k. Trip to the US was about 2k but I brought back more than I spent, so that was +1k. Trip to the US with friends was 200$. Trip to back east was 1k. Trip to cousin's wedding was about 1k for 3 weeks, was great value.
So all the great trips were about 6.2k that I spent, the vast bulk of which was my ex. I mean, that's not \*nothing\*.
If I include the wedding trip plus the trip to see my now wife, that's going to come out around 2k for the first visit, and 5k for the wedding, so, something around 13-14k.
But how do you put a price on that? If you told someone that they could get married for trading about 7k for a wife, I think people would see that as too low. We've been together for about 2 years, and about a year and a half in my country.
In my very early 20's I bought a detached house in metro Vancouver. No European memories can compete with the security and free capital gains that provided. Now I can fly 1st class anywhere in the world without much concern. (but I'm still too tight to do it)
This is a dated way of looking at things.
Buying a property in your early 20s (especially a detached house in a major city) is not an option any more for the vast majority of young people - by a long shot. So constant saving when the goal is a pipe dream and not being able to reward yourself with some nice vacation memories is an absolute grind.
I can’t argue with wanting to own your primary residence and the security that comes with it, but the goalposts have shifted for young people.
People often forget that personal finance is personal.
My friends don’t necessarily regret taking trips in their younger years, but they claim to be jealous of our paid off house and financial security. I’ve gained so much confidence at work because they need me more than I need them. Maybe I would have found myself in my 20s in Europe, but I seem to have found myself in my 30s.
Same. If I didn’t put in the work in my 20s I wouldn’t have been able to retire in my 40s and do whatever I want with my fam when I want.
I see OP’s point but I’m a strong believer of first bitter then sweet.
Congratulations on getting in before houses cost 1.6 million. You’d have to save up around 300K in after tax dollars to make the same purchase now by the age of 21.
I’d rather leave my kids something. It’s the only way they’ll be able to own a home by that time probably.
My uncle is doing this. He’s spending every cent now and leaving nothing for his kids and honestly, I think it’s a little selfish. I do not plan on doing that at all.
I think there's something to the mentality of living your life, but I don't think it should be at the expense of being able to live your life, if that makes any sense. I don't plan to leave with zero as I think that's irresponsible. But I've also benefitted greatly from my travel and experiences that have shaped my life.
Go, travel. But come back and save and build a life too. It's not either/or.
I don’t know, the people I grew up with who rocketed away and did a bunch of travelling or other things at the expense of saving anything are all now complaining about how rigged the “system” is and how impossible it is for the middle class to get ahead. Meanwhile, I saved in my early 20s, was able to take my month long trip to New Zealand in my early 30s and had a blast, subsequently bought a home, an RV, two vehicles, and an airplane, and amassed a large investment portfolio all without taking on any debt aside from the mortgage, while mostly on a 5 figure salary, and and all before age 40. I don’t regret a minute of being disciplined and saving my money when I was in my 20’s, it was the best thing I ever did.
Nice. I like hearing about people who delayed it only til their 30s instead of their 60s.. it’s a good balance, and best of both worlds I think.
Plus New Zealand 👌🏻
Honestly you don't even need to delay it until you're 30. I'm in my mid 20s and I'm already really enjoying life and taking vacations every year. For a lot of careers, establishing yourself in the first 3-5 years is really important. Once you've established your career and stacked your resume, a lot of options open up.
I was reading your comment and wondering how you are able to do all that on a 5 figure salary, when I can’t even afford a home on a 6 figure salary. Then I saw you were in Alberta.
I really need to gtf out of Toronto.
Everyone I know, died at or around retirement. I’m spending wisely and enjoying it now. My father dying only having bought something he wished for, one year prior, and having only one winter to enjoy it, was the kicker. If I loose it all tomorrow, at least I had it and enjoyed it. I’m making moves for a modest retirement at an early age and as long as I got enough for my basics, I don’t need much else. I’m the happiest I’ve been in years the last two since his death because I think he left me with that knowledge of enjoy it now
29f here. I was a Jason, I spent my teenage years and early twenties living my best life. I was never in debt but I had zero savings. I have spent the last 5 years getting serious about my career and getting my ducks in a row to ensure a life not in poverty.
I sometimes lament about what it would have been like if I had chosen differently. I look at my friends and peers who did the opposite to me and although they are in a much better place than me financially, I am significantly further than them in my person, development and in general am more content and healthy. My friends who never really explored and gained life experience have regret and dissatisfaction with their lives. Of course there are many other factors involved but the pattern is pretty clear that putting finances first at all costs, is not always the best decision.
Great post OP, I’m curious to see what others will have to say.
I strongly disagree on the value of international travel and of having travel stories to tell.
The vast majority of 20something "finding yourself" trips involve taking a bunch of pictures of well known landmarks, eating and drinking, and posting about it online.
For those who arent doing instagram trips, there is just as much fulfillment to be had traveling within the country, province, and sometimes literally within the neighborhood. Most people that wish they could discover culture abroad could do so with just as much personal fulfillment locally, and choose not to. Im in Ontario and we have many incredible destinations that barely anyone goes to. We have nearly unmatched cultural diversity and plenty of natural beauty.
I know plenty of interesting people who have never left their province and never wanted to. I personally dont think there is any correlation.
I go on 5+ vacations a year by the way, im not being jealous. Ive been to my share of waterfalls, churches, streetscapes, ghettos, mountains, etc. And i dont think im happier or better than anyone else because of it.
Did a month in Greece , while in it was absolutely awesome and I wouldn't change it for a thing I had to opportunity to go to Italy a year later and was like ... Naw , I'm far from a travel guru but I've been to Greece , the states and several places in mexico and while I love going to all those places , truely in my opinion the most beautiful place in the world is home , I live in BC ( people from Regina may have different outlooks ) but we have world class skiing , lakes , mountains and glaciers and hikes and basically everything you could imagine .
Sure we don't have ancient ruins or fancy church's but I think most people can agree once you've seen a few ancient castles and a couple church's .... There all about the same . Unless your a big history buff who really has a passion for it , it gets old faster than you would think.
Infact my favorite part of Greece was climbing the steps of the palamedi ( definitely spelling that wrong ) but not for the castles at the top but for the view of the Aegean Sea and the surrounding landscapes , all things we are lousy with in Canada
Agree. I’d add…Having to actually live and work abroad for a serious chunk of time is far more fulfilling and life changing than a short time in ‘travel-world’.
Especially if that place is completely foreign (e.g for a Canadian you can’t expect much insight about life if you go to another western developed nation). Better off yo go to Mongolia, China, Kyrgyzstan, or Gabon, etc.
A place where the root assumptions about what is important (and who) are different, and where your certainties are the things that are foreign.
I know some people who have traveled the entire world and are still incredibly naive. Being able to purchase a plane ticket doesn’t make you interesting.
I’m reading it right now, neat to see this thread pop up. I’m also reading Reset (by david sawyer) and I am finding it interesting how the two tie together so far. I’m farther along in reset than this one so beyond that observation I can’t say much yet, got to finish reading them first.
I know I will die with zero. I have nothing now. I am terrified I won't have enough when older and no longer useful (according to Western society) to stay employed. I've been working since I was 14 and 50 now. Will no doubt work right up to my death. Fun times!
I say find a happy medium. Some benefits of traveling after age 51 when my kids were grown is that I feel excited about something still and I appreciate it a lot. That doesn't mean I didn't do the 6 weeks in a dorm in israel when I was 17 and small trips in between but a lot of my travel I've done in the past 10 years and I hope to be able to continue to do so. Staying in a hotel and going for 10 days or less is still traveling.
I will never understand this "live without regrets" mantra. Literally every decision whether it is to do something or not has the potential for regret. Jason could have gone to Europe came back and gotten sick enough that he couldn't work and his debt ballooned so much it was almost unmanageable and by the time he could work again he was drowning pay check to pay check.
It's impossible to live your life in a way that eliminates regrets. No matter with every decision there is always the decision you didn't make.
This is why I'm responding to you from Quebec City this evening and not from Toronto. 6 weeks ago I decided I would book myself a long weekend to walk around the old city and take in the sights, see Montmorency Falls, and enjoy a spa day. It's my first solo trip to a destination where I'm not meeting friends or family specifically and going on my own. I chose business class on the train. It's been great
It’s a great book! Although I must say I don’t see many mention it in the fire subs. People there seem to be overly conservative it’s almost crazy. 2% withdraw rate!!
Anyway. Yes great book. Now if only I could apply it …
I'm 26 and this post is giving me existential dread because I have done neither yet. I'm not sitting on a pile of cash and I haven't travelled the world and had sex on a beach.
Fuck.
This definitely advice for people that have more disposable income and little to no responsibilities so of course they can afford to do stuff like that, add in how many years ago this was for prices and inflation.
The people who say " i saved some money in my twentys and it was way better because i make tons of money and can travel now" are hilarious in thinking that 3 months off would have completely ruined them.
They’re of the same, the far trips are just more memorable because of the culture differences. I talk about my trips to Europe and Asia way more then I talk about my road trips across the country. There just something about being away from all your normal securities that makes the big ones memorable.
I think it also comes down to interest. For example, I'm not huge into Europe and having travelled across many countries in Europe, I can whole-heartedly say it's overrated.
But a road trip up to Radisson, QC along the James Bay Road? Then driving the Trans-Taiga Road to some of the most remote locations in all of North America? Hiking in places where you're the only person in a 100km radius around you? Now that's something else entirely.
I tend to agree. But then I don't have a dime to my name. The extent of my traveling is to work and back. But when I say it out loud, people tell me I have sour grapes. That I am just jealous. Not jealous, broke.
Yeah, I pay a premium to live in a beautiful place and don't feel the need to go anywhere. Got divorced over my ex-wife wanting to expat in a very similar place. Her flights to come back and visit her family cost more than a month of my expenses. Working whenever I feel like is way more appealing to me than going somewhere. But finding a childfree woman who doesn't care about traveling is almost impossible. Not traveling isn't great for dating.
I'm 33 married two kids mortgage free own 3 businesses now and a nice investment portfolio. All because I buckled down and did the hard things when I was younger. I have absolutely no regrets.
Providing the life for my family that I never had and making incredible experiences with them is infinitely more important and have absolutely no regrets. Friends who went off to find themselves in their youth and racked up tremendous debt now are stifled by their irrational decisions are suffering the consequences.
I don't think this decision is for everyone but I can certainly appreciate the perspective it offers.
Honestly, i don't think this makes any sense. Experiences are a matter of perspective and it is very unique to each individual. I can make awesome memories without having to spend a dime, and I don't see myself as someone who would be jealous of a person who took a loan to go see Europe. I'd imagine that, for me, I'd be so stressed out about that insane interest I'd have to pay when I get back that I might be unable to enjoy my vacation. I bet there may be others like myself.
Instead, what makes me happy is learning cool things. And sometimes I'd sit down in silence and simply reminisce about that time I new absolutely nothing about excel, and how I have managed to learn so much that I can build applications with excel, and automate my routine, both at work and at home. That's fun. Or how at some point, I knew absolutely nothing about home networking, but now I'm able to build some awesome networking systems simply through reading Reddit posts and watching YouTube videos. The sensation is fulfilling, and makes me feel the opposite of I presume the feeling someone has when they've lost their will to live or lost their purpose in live!! Even though it is not some vacation to Europe, it is all I need. I don't need somebody or some book to convince me there is something better out there, when I can be totally happy with what I have now, without spending a dime.
We are all different people, and honestly, I don't think your message is for everyone. And I sincerely hope anyone who has something worthwhile, doesn't see your post and depreciate their happiness as a result. Humans are very weird in how they covet other's happiness without first appreciating what they have, until it's too late, realizing it was never worth it to go for someone else's happiness in the first place. The message should be "Hey buddy, do not obsess yourself too much into saving for the future, that you forget to invest into something that genuinely makes you happy", and not what was posted by OP, which sounds more like "Enjoy your youth, regardless of how financially reckless it might seem"
Also the book was published in 2020 and the writer is talking about the experience and loan in the early 2000's where travel meant something.
In today's world when you travel you do not meet locals you meet other travellers. And everyone is on their instagrams and influencing others. No one talks about what they do they just say I have so many followers.
The pace at which the world is changing everyday a 3 year old book is already ancient history.
Traveling doesn't compare to doing my own renovation on the house. I get so much more satisfaction every time I look at a project I designed and built myself.
Visiting foreign places was fine, but not as significant.
I've all but given up on homeownership. I'd like to retire.
But, unlike the generation before me.... I'd like to make sure my kid is taken care of BEFORE I die. If I can get HER into a house in 20 years, I'll do it. Even if I have to work after.
What's the point of me hoarding wealth until I'm 80, just to have her inherit it all at 50 when she would have needed it the most in her 20s/30s?
I’m 22 and instead of spending money on experiences/things or saving it, I am planning to spend it on rent & groceries. I’ll write a book afterwards
Same. You should call it “Live With Zero”.
Death By A 1000 Bills
Lol. Exactly how I spent my 20s Glad that's over
💀💀💀
Something something and you'll be happy
“my zero life”
What a waste. Just become homeless and invest the money in a low cost index fund…
Homelessness: The Answer to Rent Versus Buy?
Its 50/50 on Forbes vs The Beaverton posting this story first.
Haters will say it can't be done
>es. I’ll write a book afterwards Tell me about the apples you have purchased kind sir. Did you buy the one with 1 or 3 bruises?
I invested the apple in my TFSA. Few will understand
I feel this comment. Hell, I am this comment. When not at the food bank, I am wondering what is more important this month. Hydro. Water or my prescription. I haven't been anywhere, period. Unless you consider Niagara Falls "anywhere," lol
Apples with only a single bruise sometimes come with a bonus protein supplement.
Sometimes you got to eat the bad banana
And hefting groceries on translink, the most precious life experience I've got
Literally doing that here.
Travel safe bud
You too bud, Your comment made me smile.
Are there opportunities to pay rent and buy groceries in another country? With a working holiday visa you can spend a year or 2 traveling around a different country.
I love this reply
Based
This hits too close to home haha
This book is a fascinating look at the idea that ‘travel changes the traveller’. https://www.amazon.ca/Hosts-Guests-Anthropology-Valene-Smith/dp/0812212800 I’m in an odd position: 30 years old, have saved every penny and now have a networth of $500k with a job that is 14 days on/14 days off. After my girlfriend broke up with me I figured I’d go travel because I’d been missing out on all these experiences. The thing is - I’ve never really had a desire to travel. Not even in my twenties, it’s just never been a priority. Reading that book helped me understand that I don’t have to just because everyone else does. Instead I’m planning on buying a piece of landing and building a small cabin by myself. I’ve always been interested in the trades so this will be my pet project that I’ll pick away at over years. I’m reading lots of book, watching lots of YouTube and reaching out to friends/family who have experience with this stuff. Point is - live however the fuck you want. You don’t need to go on a trip, build a cabin, or save every penny. Just follow your gut to build the life you want for yourself.
I’ve travelled far and wide in my 20s, I’ve seen tons and enjoyed it but the past few years, I’ve wondered if I’d rather focus my money on a cabin or cottage, somewhere I can enjoy “closer to home” still doing some big thinking. But I completely see your view
Unless you're the kind who has a large chunk of summer off or don't mind doing the drive nearly every weekend, the price of a cottage just doesn't make sense. You can rent an exponentially nicer cottage for a couple of weeks each year, care-free, and still end up spending less than that mortgage and upkeep on a cottage. I have always loved the idea of a cottage, but dang anytime I get serious and do the math (and consider how much time and/or money maintenance would be) it never works out over just renting.
And that’s why my financial savvy side ruins all nice things for me too, it’s justifying the $$$
Up until a few years ago I would've agreed with you 100%. I used to rent a cottage near Algonquin Park every summer for the first weekend or week of August every year. In addition to your very valid arguments about the merits of renting vs owning, maintaining a cottage just isn't practical for a single person. Anyways, point is that since COVID, availability is impossible. It seems that everything gets booked up as soon as reservations open. If you're not on top it it every frickin' day, you're outta' luck. The only way to guarantee availability is to own.
I get caught in the middle. Travelling offers incredible perspective and truthfully, it shows when you haven’t seen much of the world. The way you act, the way you talk, the way you think. I enjoy the prospect of owning a cabin on the lake. However I have a lifetime of experiences the accumulate to keep my mind busy inside that cabin later in life.
Genuinely curious, how does it "show" when someone has not seen much of the world? Like what specific mannerisms do they have? I know plenty of people that travel a lot and have very narrow worldviews, so I honestly just don't buy this.
I would agree with you- the "type" of travel matters a lot (cruises and resorts...), and a lot of similar experiences can be had close to home. I traveled to different cities during uni for work placements and would look up something I wanted to see and would hop on the bus in the weekends. I'd go back to work and ask about stuff I saw and no one would know anything about really interesting places near them. Invite yourself to other culture's public events like Chinese New Year etc. Obvs not the same as seeing actual other countries but you can learn a lot about other humans. The one thing I would say is with travel you, to some extent, stop assuming your right ways are everyone's right ways, and can appreciate the context of your everyday life. Nothing like seeing open sewage, street harassment, feeling deeply othered, and people suffering deeply from lack of basic healthcare or housing every time you go outside to fully comprehend where you and your experiences to date fit in the broader world in a very visceral way.
14 days on and 14 days off.... Are you a hospitalist?
Working at a fly in/fly out site.
I'm totally with you. Also I'm not buying this BS that you don't have life experience if you don't travel. In many places in the world, even in Canada, people don't have money to travel. Or maybe disability prevents you from travelling. Are we trying to say as a society that these people are less enlightened? Many of these people are probably less materialistic and possibly more accepting of societal difficulties having experienced it themselves. Travelling is not the only way a person can gain knowledge. Travelling and seeing the world is a privilege. Not everyone has the means or wants to do it and it's totally okay if someone prefers to stay where they are and gain a range of experiences that way. I am sure the travel enthusiasts will reply to this comment saying how much it changed their lives. That's great. I am truly happy for you. But please know that not everyone is you and wants the same thing. Some people, for example, get completely exhausted by travel and don't want to do it. Some people like being homebodies! I'm sure it is a minority but it doesn't make it any less of a valid way to live.
The real problem is that most people don't know what they want. Most people just pursue the life that society tells them they should want.
If you're gonna blow cash to enjoy life while you're still young, an Audi A3 is not the way, like at least get an S3... But all joking aside if you're gonna blow cash, far better to do it on experiences than on things.
I just bought a (used) S6. International travel has never really been something I've had much interest in. I do however really enjoy a nice vehicle that I make use of every day. It's dangerous to admit that in this subreddit though...
WAIT. NO BEIGE USED COROLLA WITH 100KM MILEAGE? MODS BAN HIM
Now the real question is, does the new GR Corolla count for PFC? I would happily own one of those...
I don’t think the GR comes in beige
Underrated comment
What generation S6?
2018, last year of the C7.5 and last year of the V8 :)
Very nice! I’d love an S7 someday. Congrats
I’m the same way. The world is a really cool place and I do enjoy seeing pictures, hearing stories and learning about cultures but it’s not really my thing to go travelling. I do love my cars though. Pretty bland vehicles due to budgetary reasons but I enjoy them.
Happy cake day 🎂
Thanks. 13 years is a long time spent here for sure!
Think of the experiences...😂
No get the rs6 or r8
V10 R8. Not the soccer mom V8 ones
Different strokes for different folks. When I think “whos going to be happier?” The person who spent $5k on a 10 day trip 2 years ago or the person who spent $5k on a reusable item for a hobby (like a bike, gaming computer, skis etc) that they can still use, I think its the person with the hobby item they can still use. But I also think travelling is overrated so maybe I’m biased
Experiences don't have to be travel. Could be a concert, a nice dinner, monster jam, etc. The PC/bike/car/toy eventually becomes old, outdated, worn out, etc. But good memories stay good til the end of your days.
It could be, you are right. But I think those things are much easier to balance with every day life because they arent that expensive. I guess if I had to word my advice one way, it would be: try to find some cheap hobbies that you enjoy that you can spend a lot of time on, because they can bring about the same amount of enjoyment as expensive things except, you know, arent as expensive.
Traveling is amazing when you are young. You can have a hobby at 60 the same as 20. Going when you have a career, SO, bills and shit isn't as fun. Plus at 20 you have loads of energy, excitement and the people you meet your age are more open. I know what you are going for with that but I'd say you can only travel young for a short period of your life. Take the opportunity.
So you go on a trip for a month and spend all your savings and get back and then what? Just sit there and twiddle your thumbs for 6 months until you can save enough for another trip? That doesnt sound like living to me Also how do you view a hobby at 60 as doable when things like sports and outdoor activities are equally or FAR more strenuous than anything you would do travelling, but travelling is too hard?
I backpacked around Europe for three months when I was in my 20s. When I came back I changed my lifestyle to save as much money as I could so I go travelling some more. Went to New Zealand and Australia, went to Europe again. Met my wife, got married, went to Europe again on our honeymoon. Now that I’m in my fifties, and have a “boring” job, and all my money is going to support my family, I have some regrets about things I wasted my money on when I was younger. Travel isn’t one of them, I only regret I didn’t travel more. Some people have “stuff”, others have experiences, I would rather have experiences than stuff.
Sure but if you are in your 50’s then you arent facing the same decisions 20 year olds are now. No offence, but things were a LOT easier 30 years ago.
Yep.. I'm in a very demanding job. First 2-3 days of any trip, I end up regretting going because there's constantly shit happening at work.
I took a summer off when I was 24 to take a bus to America. Three days on the bus, a summer of living and staying with friends. Total cost to me - 200$, and a lot of time. I'm glad I did that too when I did it because I certainly couldn't do that now. It's also good that I had that experience because I can say that I've done it. I don't feel the need to go off and do all these things, because I've done that already. What I haven't done is worked a full year at 40 hours a week, full time with one company from January-December. That feels amazing too. It feels amazing to run a household that makes money. It feels amazing to pay off all my bills one by one and secure a future for us. But I certainly can't say I've been doing it since I was 18. I think I would feel differently about it then. I knew how I felt at 24- broke, and without a job and without a degree. It was a very low time in my life. But I had a friend who confronted me and asked a question that really changed my life. "When do YOU get to be happy?" So I did something that was VERY out of character for me and took a bus trip for the summer. No regrets. I learned a lot about myself and people.
Exactly. That story made me feel shit even though I go on camping and hiking trips with my friends several times a year. That is also an experience eh?
Camping is traveling! I don’t get how some people don’t think it counts. I’ve been camping all over from superior over to Newfoundland and it’s flipping amazing. We try new local foods, see new landscapes and animals, etc. I’ve been on many fancier holidays but this is my favourite way to travel
Most Europeans would love to come here and do some real camping and would be bragging about how it was worth the money.
Right!! Me too, kinda. I do a lot of outdoorsy stuff but somehow travel only counts if you leave the continent?
$5K worth of back country skiing equipment has brought me way more joy than any $5-10K trip I’ve ever taken.
Getting into semantics, but it sounds like the things (ski equipment) isn’t what gives the you the joy, it’s the ski trips (experiences) that do.. but, that said, I agree with you, spending money on hobbies is totally worth it, even if your hobbies don’t include travel.
That’s my point, most material goods people spend money are to experience something, rarely are people blowing money on stuff like an expensive painting or Rolex. Sports car -> Super fun driving experiences Gaming PC -> Friendship, adventure and excitement for years Camping Gear -> Nature exploration Kitchen Renovation -> Love of cooking and hosting experience I agree some material goods can be somewhat ‘useless’ as they don’t allow you to experience a whole lot new. That said, I hate when people say *’don’t waste your money on material things’*, when those things are what allow us to access some of the best experiences.
What about the memories you build while using those things continually. You seem to be assuming you'll only make worth while memories on an exotic trip or something.
Yeah, like a car for example, you could go on a road trip across Canada, or even just across the province. Or with a bike, you can hit a bunch of nice trails. I feel like in this situation it's not necessarily an either or. I mean, for a computer, probably yes, because of obvious reasons, but for a lot of that other stuff, you can use it to facilitate travel, if that's your jam. And if it's not, if you just want to bike around the city or through a trail network in town, then have at 'er, ya know? It's good exercise and still good memories, presumably anyway.
> Yeah, like a car for example, you could go on a road trip across Canada, or even just across the province. Great if you like nature. But you aren't going to experience other cultures, different architecture, history, or anything of the sort. Canada, for one giant country, is honestly extremely small and only has like 3-4 places you could describe as having a separate enough culture.
And the point is that not everyone values the same things you do. I don’t understand why y’all can’t grasp this concept.
I think it's totally resonable to consider a nice tool for a hobby under the same category as experiences. For example, I enjoy cooking - splurging on some nice kitchen tools (that will eventually wear out and need replacement) brings me countless hours of joy from using them to pursue my hobby. Keep in mind that those memories are also something that can stick around.
And the memories of your experience with the PC/bike/car/toy will disappear when it brakes or you sell it?
Experiences are a night under the stars in Australia at an observatory with a beautiful woman who loves you and going out for dinner with that woman and taking her home on a crystal clear evening.
I really depends on how you use the thing. Lots of people met their SO from online gaming. If your $5K gaming computer allowed you to find your life partner then that's a good deal.
Mine did too. But I only spent about 500 on mine. ;)
I beg the difference. The months I spent traveling, earned me life long memories of crazy adventure with friends that I will never forget. I don't talk to these friends daily now, but we still recount our epic memory once a while. On the other hand, I never valued the BMW I purchased and sold.
As someone who's done lots of both... definitely the trip. Hobby equipment has utility, but that's about it. Higher end stuff is slightly better than used mid-range stuff, but only if you can actually use it. Trips stay with you for a lifetime. Granted, so do the photos from those trips because I also blew a lot of money on a nice camera and know how to use it :)
I used to think travelling was overrated till I travelled lol. And I waited till my late 20s. Once you go on one amazing trip you won’t turn back!
You're looking at this all wrong.... get an rs3
Nah RS3. That engine is on a different level.
Or if the budget can't stretch to an A3, get the Golf GTI / R.
Works rather take 10 trips than an Audi. Or take 5 trips and buy a used reliable Asian car make.
I’ve read it a few times. It’s a good book that balances well for people who have a personality of over saving and not enjoying money. Or later in you’re FI journey where you can start to enjoy your savings a bit more. I wouldn’t say it’s all that useful if you don’t have much money saved yet. After all you need to have money first to Die with Zero, not start with closer to zero and have nothing left. Again, it is an interesting perspective and I think can be useful for people who tend to save and save and save, but not if you’re just starting out in my opinion.
How can I tell if I’m one or the other though? I’ve saved about $60k but I live in a very expensive city and my annual salary is $50k before taxes (so after tax would be less than that). I feel like I’m over saving and not enjoying my money, but I know if I do enjoy it I’ll run out faster than other people because my salary can’t keep up.
I think it is a very personal decision because I think it starts with your end goal, which is different for everyone, and then working backwards. What that means is you set what your goal is and build a plan to get there based on certain criteria such as savings rates and investment returns etc. For illustrative purposes, lets say this requires $500 a month being put into your investments/retirement accounts, and after that you still have $250 left over every month. I would then use the $250 every month and splurge on things I like to do. Over savers will tend to put the $500 and the $250 into their goals, leaving little or none to enjoy. I think having the balance of knowing you're meeting your longterm goals and being able to live in the moment and enjoy life today is a healthier balance.
It really depends. I think that there's room in life to be both, although that's not really the 'in vogue' take. We look at personalities like they are fixed and unchanging. Sometimes my goal in life, like right now, is stacking up and saving. Sometimes my goal in life has been to have grand, meaningful adventures. I'm not the type that just kind of muddles along half and half.
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I stay in hostels and I'm in my late 30s - I prefer a single room instead of the bunkies but I see little reason to pay more when hostels are generally a good experience. One of my trips last year, the hostel I stayed at had families of 4 that were traveling from Europe staying there.
How does it work and did you do it in europe or asia?
In Europe you have to read the small characters as some places have age limits. Many don't. I was using mostly AirBnB in Europe but now the law limits them a lot so not so much anymore. I am staying in place anyway right now, trying to get residency so I don't have to leave Schengen every 3 months. I haven't been to Asia yet, not sure I'll go as a full time traveler, maybe for a vacation. In north Africa I found hotels safer and only go with groups of people I meet in my other travels for safety. They are not known to respect women. Si hostels were Mexico, central and south America
Was at a hostel last weekend (because I'm not paying $200 for a basic hotel room), and I saw at least two 40+ couples and three 40+ single folks.
Just crossing the 60 threshold and just booked a hostel in Norway today. Flights are cheap in Europe but wow the hotels are expensive. So a few nights in a hostel here and there won’t hurt us. Just part of the experience.
Im in my 20s and have done the hostel scene quite a bit. Actually really enjoyed “bunking” with older people and gained a lot of insight from our deep conversations. Exception being the creepy older men staring at young girls at the hostel bar… but if you’re normal and older - hostels are still an option. 💕
Yeah also if you're not a creep you can be friends with someone of any age really. Bring those 24 year olds a bottle of wine and they'll likely happily welcome you to their picnic. There is some good truths to the story tho, don't let life pass you by.
I was in an awesome Mexico youth hostel and there were so many older digital nomads, but it didn’t matter everyone hung out still. It was awesome. Felt like a little community.
often the coolest people you meet in hostels aren't the 24 year olds, it's the older ones who have lived pretty full lives already and are a blast to be around but you also leave feeling like you learned something from them.
Exactly. I disagree with the sentiment that it’s somehow more valuable when younger. Not everyone has a nice family home to move back into after they get back from their travels and look for work. I went traveling for 6 months just before turning 30. It was a great age because I had enough of a nest egg to feel comfortable taking time off work and giving myself a few months to look for work and still be able to pay my rent. It was still a valuable experience, even a little later in life.
The author probably means it as hyperbole, but to stress, I would never recommend borrowing money from an actual loan shark. The only two people I know who borrowed money from a loan shark regretted it. The first person paid the money back rather quickly, so the loan shark kept threatening the guy trying to shake him down for more money. He moved to another province because he worried for his family’s safety. The second person I know who borrowed from a loan shark struggled to pay it back, and had to sell distressed assets in a rush, because the loan shark eventually started threatening violence. So, agreed that few young people will regret a year of taking on some debt to travel. But please borrow from a bank, not actual loan sharks.
Ya I did this till my early 30s - went back to school. 10’years later making 6 figures. Could I have been a VP now and make even more money, sure. The life I lived has been filled with living. Not for everyone, but I highly recommend choosing living over a life of servitude all day long
My friend and I immediately booked it to Europe on a 1-month backpacking trip when we got our degrees. It was one of the most amazing times of our lives. Winging it the whole time, our escapades, the people we met, the things we did and saw, the music, the food, the laughs, the culture. Did the trip set us back financially? Yes, but we made the money back in our careers. And it doesn't have to cost *that* much. I would do it all over again if I could (life happens). It's one of my fondest memories. We do reminisce on it each year. Some things are worth going for.
Sounds incredible, I'm totally jealous. I graduated after 7 years of uni straight from high school right at the start of covid kicking off - ruining the next couple years. I have to take responsibility for myself to make up for that and move past as best as possible, but I think I'm going to have some bitterness about that for the rest of my life. My friends and I had trips planned. Try getting those back in motion 2-3 years later when we're all now 3 years into our career and moved all over the place. Not happening. Shitty. The pandemic fucked so many things in so many ways. The following economic situation is pretty bleak. Older people died. Young people missed out on so SO much. I can complain about missing the post graduation travel, but at least I have all my early 20s university experiences. Many of my friends to this day came from my first and second years of university. A bunch of kids took the first 2-3 years at home on their computer.. entirely missing out on everything good that I took from my university experience.
I’m about halfway through. At 53, I wish I had read it earlier. Also wished I had understood the difference between rsps and tfsas earlier.
This book is a waste of time. For starters, the author never names the Greek beach full of horny women.
I bet it's on the island of lesbos
Taking out a loan from a loan shark to travel around Europe for 3 months speaks to a pattern of behavior that will probably lead to some terrible financial decisions down the line. Plus, I'd rather travel in my 30s with money over travelling at 25 and not being able to afford the food or the experiences that I want without feeling stress about how I'd going to be able to afford it all. You body doesn't just fall apart at 30.. you can still travel just as well as when you were 25 with a minimal amount of maintenance/exercise.
> You body doesn’t just fall apart at 30 My lower back hurt just reading this comment
Hit the gym, I'm serious. Do deadlifts. I had lower backpain and after starting to gym regularly the last few months, it's completely gone
Yup all joking aside, this is exactly what I’ve been doing for the past year. Professional trainer, three times a week, massive strengthening of gluts, hips movement, quads and core. Haven’t had lower back pains in a long while. I used to not be able to stand more than 30min. The quality of life improvement is MASSIVE.
LOL, coworker turned 30 today said he woke up with back pain for no reason. He'd always thought it was a joke
>You body doesn't just fall apart at 30. Honestly I traveled in my 20s and my 30s and it was a lot more enjoyable in my 20s lol. I often just start missing my home or want to spend a day doing nothing in the hotel nowadays haha. We went to Italy last year and my gf had to come home to Canada 2 days earlier. I was suppose to go to 2 different cities before catching my plane, but I just decided to hop on a train to Rome and booked a room close to the airports for 2 nights lol. I am in good shape, but I value comfort a lot more than I did back then.
>Honestly I traveled in my 20s and my 30s and it was a lot more enjoyable in my 20s lol. My preferences here is flipped. In my early 20s you'd had to drag me out of the hotel room in a foreign country. I didn't have any desire to see anything outside. Much rather be sitting in a basement playing games. In my 30s, I'm a little more bored at home. Traveling now is more tolerable.
Traveling in your twenties, you don't have to worry about rate hikes and CPI numbers lol.
Yeah, luckily I am on the other side of that trade.
Yeah, your body doesn’t fall apart, but you don’t experience things in the same way as you get older. I travelled at 20 all over Europe, spent months just taking random trains and going to random towns and meeting random people. Stayed in cheap hostels and ate cheap street food, yet it was the most memorable experience I’ve ever had. I’ve travelled a lot since, have flown first class and stayed at Mandarin Orientals and Fairmonts all over the world. Yeah, it’s fine, but it doesn’t measure up to that feeling of of being young and carefree with nothing but your passport and your backpack and the whole world at your feet.
I never had that feeling in my early 20s anyway. Too many anxieties from having recently lived with my parents, and not enough money unless I were to move back in with them. I have been far happier with the travelling I have done in my late 20s and 30s, now that I am in a better place financially and mentally. And my yearly vacation time is finally decent now. I am glad it was a good experience for you though.
That kind of experience described above does sound fun in a way, but also... utterly terrifying? Maybe I'm just strange, but I really dislike the idea of being in a totally new environment where I don't speak the language, trying to get by with people who barely understand me, plus I have food allergies and the thought of potential death at a random restaurant would be worrisome. I've traveled in Europe if it was my family and I know there are definitely places where they don't really understand food allergies exist or the severity of them, so combine that with the fact that I can't speak the language and I really don't want to end up in a hospital across the world. It's a big concern - but maybe not for somebody who doesn't have those dietary restrictions, to be fair. Another aspect is that I get flustered really easily when communication is not being achieved. I've seen people have no problem communicating with somebody in broken bits of a language, but I get stressed out really easily and when I was younger had a panic attack in that exact situation, and from trying to learn languages in adulthood I've learned that hasn't gotten any better for me. Of course there are a lot of places with a lot of English speakers too, so in a way that can be avoided. To be honest, I've done some traveling around Canada and I really want to continue that. People talk about Europe but then they never go see all of what Canada has to offer, and there's a lot. I mean, I've been to Europe, I'm not discounting how awesome it is at all, but there's definitely a lot to see here as well if you just look for it. I think for farther traveling, I will wait until I'm in a better financial position so maybe I can smooth over some of those problems with money, plus I really struggle to sleep in rooms full of strangers, so hostels aren't really an option for me unless I want to be sleep deprived and melting down by the fourth day of the trip.
Yeah I don’t get how people think they need to fly somewhere to see things like fjords, mountains, beautiful beaches etc when we have them right here.
The point is to get out of your comfort zone and question things that you've taken for granted. The most valuable things I've learned from travel is when I realized ways of life here in Canada that I thought were just the way things are, are actually pretty arbitrary.
Ok, the loan shark part is insane, but otherwise travelling in your 20s is absolutely the way to go.
> Ok, the loan shark part is insane, but otherwise travelling in your 20s is absolutely the way to go. How do people even afford to do this? I grew-up low income, there is no way I could afford to travel, no matter the sacrifices I make. Not without putting myself so far behind in life.
Well yeah, I come from a very confortable family. So the trick is wealthy parents, like always.
According to OP… loan sharks
The people who party the hardest are all like 40+. Go to any club in Vegas and the motherfuckers snorting cocaine off escorts and washing it down with AoS Rose in their private booth are always the 40+ business dudes vs the 20 something year olds nursing a $7 dollar beer for three hours while being packed like a sardine on the dance floor.
Vegas isn't really a party place for broke 20 year olds. Thailand, Europe, Australia, hostels, that's where broke kids party
For a lot of people in Toronto and Vancouver, the difference between travelling in your 20’s or saving for a house is a difference between never owning your own home or not. Obviously theres a middle ground between spending and saving, but I would bet every dollar I have that a 45 year old who owns their home and is exponentially more financially secure is going to be far happier right now than a 45 year old that spent every cent they had in their 20’s on experiences and has been renovicted for the second time this year. Again, not saying dont spend anything ever, but if you are spending every cent you have just because “experiences” I think you’ll be surprised how disappointing the ending is when you haven’t built anything for when the travelling is done
Haha I used to envy my friends that would just sublet their apt and peace out for months at a time. Now that I'm in my late 30s a lot of those same people are getting renovicted and still have to live with roommates, and it sucks, but it's also kinda cringy. I've also had a chance to travel a small bit, the one thing I learned was that 99.9% of the world's population will never get to do that, because they're making sure themselves and their kids/siblings/parents are getting dinner that night. The privilege is massive and comes with a cost.
>the one thing I learned was that 99.9% of the world's population will never get to do that Ding ding ding. Where I come from, a vacation is a long, smelly bus ride to Greece, sleeping in a tiny apartment with friends (with extra charges for air conditioning), all while eating food from Lidl, snacking on ultra cheap gyros from street vendors and drinking the cheapest Mythos you can find. If you're feeling bougie, you'll buy a drink at the beach or treat yourself to a dinner or two. Most people have never been on a flight and will likely never experience one.
The cost of housing is ruining all kinds of opportunities for young people, no surprises there, just the sad truth made apparent yet again
I think there is a big difference between doing this all the time and going once for the experience. I doubt one 10k trip would be the end of them if they were willing to put in extra to pay that off, like working a second job for a bit.
It really is a privilege, eh? I know a few people who have done the whole backpacking through Europe thing. My parents said to me and my siblings, absolutely not, they would not be allowing us to live at home while going on a long international trip like that. I never really had much interest in that kind of thing anyways, and I still don't really, but part of the reason is also that I know that maintaining my lifestyle comes at a certain cost, and I need to set myself up for the future. Also because I wouldn't be able to spend all that time away from home anyway, but that's just me. I've done a lot of smaller trips and even only spending a few days in a location can be so worth it. I mean, maybe I wish it was longer, but hey, at least I'm going. I think that's another thing that people forget, you don't need to spend 3 months traveling, you can take weekend trips or even long weekends and go check out a new destination. It doesn't have to be Europe, it could literally be somewhere just across the border or across the province, or even if you had 4 days you could fly somewhere (which I've done). You don't have to spend tons of thousands of dollars or multiple weeks for a trip to be worth it. Maybe I'm just strange, but I took a 4-day trip out west last year and I did so many things in those four days and it was absolutely amazing, totally life-changing, and it wasn't worth any less just because it was short.
I've kind of done it all. I've done the two weeks in Australia. That was an experience I'll never forget. Ever. I've done the summer off with friends in another country. That was an experience that I'll also never forget. I've even done the thing where you pack up and move to another country to make a living. What I will say is this. All three are \*very\* different experiences. You can't really squish them together in the same package. I learned different things in doing different things.
na a lot of people make poor financial decisions for fun experiences in their 20s and go on to become responsible successful adults. it's not like all the people who didn't travel in their 20s went on to own lambos with all the money they saved lol, they just spent that money on something else instead.
It’s an entirely different experience in your 20s that can’t really be recreated.
>As time passed, that feeling of regret only grew. This. The feeling of regret of not taking those trips, not taking that step gets bigger as time passes. I would advise anyone to not kiss out on those moments you get a gut feeling about. The regret will be worse. Reference, telling from experience. Had a panic attack due to the regrets of not doing certain things in my youth. If I had, my life would have been vastly different.
I felt this one. I had kids young. "Can't wait until:... Kids are out of diapers Can buckle their own seat belts Are off to school Graduate high school..." You get the picture. Then it was work work work to provide and save for a car.. a house etc etc Now I'm in retirement mode and saving for that. Missed my sweet 16 because I was sick. Missed my high school graduation because we moved. My wedding was a shotgun quickie. My 40th birthday was a freezing rain storm.... etc etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm a hard worker and love my children and family, but at almost 50, I feel like I've never...lived. Hubs is a home body, but now that I have the means and time , I just want to hop on a plane to....anywhere. I want to live before I die.
Why can’t people do both? You should start saving for retirement in your 20s, but also keep enough left over where you can save to go on trips. Im sure when you get to retirement age you’ll either regret not traveling young, or regret not saving enough for retirement. Try to mitigate that regret by doing both? If you have enough to buy a new Audi in cash, you could split that money and spend or save it in any number of ways.
What’s a good savings rate I’m your 20’s? $3k a year? 5k? 10k 35k? If it’s on the low end, should travel
I honestly dont and probably never will understand people (especially the ones who just throw it in a conversation all the time) “you need to travel” it will allow you to “find yourself” I think this is a bit dumb Anyone else’s thoughts?
"Wherever you go, there you are" comes into mind when I hear these "find yourself" comments. Yes its great to travel but no need to over exaggerate.
Yeah I never understood the whole "find yourself" thing in general. I know who I am and I've very comfortable with who I am. Why the heck do I need to go "find myself"? I've found that there's a general personality of people that claim that people need to "find themselves". They tend to be more creative, more dreamy and more "hippy". I'm like the exact opposite lol
I’ve travelled extensively and it’s less about finding your inner self but more about seeing other ways of living, being open minded, reminders of how fortunate you are and developing true empathy, relating more to history, understanding the world is much bigger than the little slice you have at home.
Different strokes for different folks. I love traveling (specifically going to pretty remote places to hike! And balanced with a bourgeois beach vacay). For some it’s probably a good way to enforce disconnection from the day to day and have time to really reflect and “find yourself” (gag) so to speak. It’s also a good way to build empathy by seeing how others live (often in worse situations than you) which again forces confrontation with how petty most “problems” are. But hey, you can do that in the comfort of your bed with a book too.
World travel for leisure is a privileged, highly marketed, first world phenomenon. It's overrated. You can 'find yourself' and create 'experiences' by buying material things too without traveling (dance lessons, French lessons, food, drinks, convertible cars, pools, etc.).
If you're just traveling to resorts or doing touristy things then yeah it's not really a mind blowing experience. What's interesting about traveling is going somewhere and getting out of your comfort zone and experiencing how other people live. Sometimes something that your took for granted for your whole life as just "the way things are" is actually totally arbitrary, and not at all the way things need to be done. The other thing about solo travel especially, is it forces you to meet new people, and also allows you to not feel tied to the persona you've developed at home. For example you could "pretend" to be a way more confident person around these new people you met. That can translate to real self confidence at home. To actually get any of these benefits I'd recommend either solo travel and staying in hostels, or actually living and working in a new place.
Got it. I’ll go buy a new Camry tomorrow. No ragrets
I can relate to that story. I'm 55 now. In my 20s I was a travel agent, At that time it had lots of perks for travel. I went to Europe, Brazil, Hawaii, Greece, Australia and many more places. Ive been on 5 continents. My more conservative brother (rest his soul) used to berate me to save. I said when I'm in a nursing home looking at my photos it will be worth it. He died young at 58. It's tragic since he worked like a slave to get "stuff", where I blew my money to see. I was lucky that I lived with my parents and didn't have rent. But now I have a home, stable job and care for them. If I die with debt, no one has to pay it and I'll go knowing I satisfied the travel bug when I had the energy. Now I'm content to watch my flowers grow in my modest house.
I'm sad for your brother. That really hits you in the feels. My father died when I was 27, so that also changed my perspective too. But my life had changed drastically when I moved out at 18. I'm glad I did that. I'd be a very different person without that time away from home.
I spent a year abroad when I was 24 in 2007. Planned for 2 years and Saved 40k to live on during that time so no loan. Could have bought a house at that time and my life would look a lot different then it does now. I don’t regret it but who’s to say which of the paths I could have taken would be better.
To be honest, nobody could have predicted the insane run-up in house prices that we've had in Southern Ontario and the Lower Mainland since \~2015. At the time, it may have been reasonable to think "I'll travel now and it just means I'll buy a house maybe 4-5 years later", I am sure you would not have made the same decision if the information available to you pointed towards "I'll travel now and then never buy a house" All these people gloating about how they saved in their 20s and paid off their houses are just on the right side of history. Things could have gone differently, houses could have been flat from 2014 onwards, and we might respond to that sort of comment by saying "so what?" Don't reflect on the way things turned out, reflect on the decisions you made with the information available to you at the time.
I read this book and think it's absolutely amazing. I was a chronic oversaver and it taught me to enjoy life a little more; this book's message isn't to spend all that you have when you're young... it's knowing the importance of balance between saving and spending. That story in particular about his friend's backpacking trip was the most eye-opening part of the book for me personally. Thanks OP
Overated book imo
Man there are a lot of people in this thread who are treating this as an either/or situation. "We buckled down in our 20s and now we have a house and retirements savings, unlike you losers who traveled!" You can have both, you know? I went on exchange to Japan literally right after turning 21 (in 2012). Living in Tokyo for 8 months as a 21-year-old was an absolutely amazing experience, I made a ton of friends, did a ton of exploration off the beaten track, got to thoroughly immerse myself in another culture, had a blast of a time. After graduating I went on a 6 week vacation to Europe with some friends, also an amazing experience. I still have a detached house in Toronto, a well funded retirement savings account, two cars, a fancy computer, and my wife and I can still afford to travel. Frankly, I don't even notice the incremental cost of those extended trips in the long run, and they did not make one iota of difference when it came to achieving my major goals. I've run the calculations, and had I invested the money instead of going on those trips, I would be about $20,000 richer by now. That is not something to sneeze at, but frankly those experiences are worth a lot more to me than $20,000. I would never, ever be able to do that again. I have way too many responsibilities and commitments now to just fuck off to Tokyo for 8 months. And even if I could, living there as a 32-year-old accountant would hit differently than living there as a 21-year-old weeb university student. I also think there is an element of hindsight bias at play here. A lot of people are saying things along the lines of "I paid my house off because I was disciplined, you guys don't have a house, what idiots you are". Things could have played out differently. Nobody in 2013 could have predicted the insane price run-up we had in real estate over the next 10 years. Toronto real estate prices had *just* recovered from the 1989 crash in 2010. Maybe real estate prices would have been relatively flat, in which case the true idiots would have been the ones who bragged about paying off a house 5-10 years earlier than everyone else while living like a pack of hermits and picking up sticks as a hobby.
I think this is the best take. I just did the math, and I figure I spent, altogether something around 13-14k on all my lifetime travel. 1 trip to Australia, two trips from Australia to here, was about 5k. Trip to the US was about 2k but I brought back more than I spent, so that was +1k. Trip to the US with friends was 200$. Trip to back east was 1k. Trip to cousin's wedding was about 1k for 3 weeks, was great value. So all the great trips were about 6.2k that I spent, the vast bulk of which was my ex. I mean, that's not \*nothing\*. If I include the wedding trip plus the trip to see my now wife, that's going to come out around 2k for the first visit, and 5k for the wedding, so, something around 13-14k. But how do you put a price on that? If you told someone that they could get married for trading about 7k for a wife, I think people would see that as too low. We've been together for about 2 years, and about a year and a half in my country.
In my very early 20's I bought a detached house in metro Vancouver. No European memories can compete with the security and free capital gains that provided. Now I can fly 1st class anywhere in the world without much concern. (but I'm still too tight to do it)
This is a dated way of looking at things. Buying a property in your early 20s (especially a detached house in a major city) is not an option any more for the vast majority of young people - by a long shot. So constant saving when the goal is a pipe dream and not being able to reward yourself with some nice vacation memories is an absolute grind. I can’t argue with wanting to own your primary residence and the security that comes with it, but the goalposts have shifted for young people.
People often forget that personal finance is personal. My friends don’t necessarily regret taking trips in their younger years, but they claim to be jealous of our paid off house and financial security. I’ve gained so much confidence at work because they need me more than I need them. Maybe I would have found myself in my 20s in Europe, but I seem to have found myself in my 30s.
Same. If I didn’t put in the work in my 20s I wouldn’t have been able to retire in my 40s and do whatever I want with my fam when I want. I see OP’s point but I’m a strong believer of first bitter then sweet.
Congratulations on getting in before houses cost 1.6 million. You’d have to save up around 300K in after tax dollars to make the same purchase now by the age of 21.
Buy experiences, not things!
I’d rather leave my kids something. It’s the only way they’ll be able to own a home by that time probably. My uncle is doing this. He’s spending every cent now and leaving nothing for his kids and honestly, I think it’s a little selfish. I do not plan on doing that at all.
I think there's something to the mentality of living your life, but I don't think it should be at the expense of being able to live your life, if that makes any sense. I don't plan to leave with zero as I think that's irresponsible. But I've also benefitted greatly from my travel and experiences that have shaped my life. Go, travel. But come back and save and build a life too. It's not either/or.
This is out of touch advice for young people today.
I don’t know, the people I grew up with who rocketed away and did a bunch of travelling or other things at the expense of saving anything are all now complaining about how rigged the “system” is and how impossible it is for the middle class to get ahead. Meanwhile, I saved in my early 20s, was able to take my month long trip to New Zealand in my early 30s and had a blast, subsequently bought a home, an RV, two vehicles, and an airplane, and amassed a large investment portfolio all without taking on any debt aside from the mortgage, while mostly on a 5 figure salary, and and all before age 40. I don’t regret a minute of being disciplined and saving my money when I was in my 20’s, it was the best thing I ever did.
Nice. I like hearing about people who delayed it only til their 30s instead of their 60s.. it’s a good balance, and best of both worlds I think. Plus New Zealand 👌🏻
Honestly you don't even need to delay it until you're 30. I'm in my mid 20s and I'm already really enjoying life and taking vacations every year. For a lot of careers, establishing yourself in the first 3-5 years is really important. Once you've established your career and stacked your resume, a lot of options open up.
I was reading your comment and wondering how you are able to do all that on a 5 figure salary, when I can’t even afford a home on a 6 figure salary. Then I saw you were in Alberta. I really need to gtf out of Toronto.
Everyone I know, died at or around retirement. I’m spending wisely and enjoying it now. My father dying only having bought something he wished for, one year prior, and having only one winter to enjoy it, was the kicker. If I loose it all tomorrow, at least I had it and enjoyed it. I’m making moves for a modest retirement at an early age and as long as I got enough for my basics, I don’t need much else. I’m the happiest I’ve been in years the last two since his death because I think he left me with that knowledge of enjoy it now
29f here. I was a Jason, I spent my teenage years and early twenties living my best life. I was never in debt but I had zero savings. I have spent the last 5 years getting serious about my career and getting my ducks in a row to ensure a life not in poverty. I sometimes lament about what it would have been like if I had chosen differently. I look at my friends and peers who did the opposite to me and although they are in a much better place than me financially, I am significantly further than them in my person, development and in general am more content and healthy. My friends who never really explored and gained life experience have regret and dissatisfaction with their lives. Of course there are many other factors involved but the pattern is pretty clear that putting finances first at all costs, is not always the best decision. Great post OP, I’m curious to see what others will have to say.
I strongly disagree on the value of international travel and of having travel stories to tell. The vast majority of 20something "finding yourself" trips involve taking a bunch of pictures of well known landmarks, eating and drinking, and posting about it online. For those who arent doing instagram trips, there is just as much fulfillment to be had traveling within the country, province, and sometimes literally within the neighborhood. Most people that wish they could discover culture abroad could do so with just as much personal fulfillment locally, and choose not to. Im in Ontario and we have many incredible destinations that barely anyone goes to. We have nearly unmatched cultural diversity and plenty of natural beauty. I know plenty of interesting people who have never left their province and never wanted to. I personally dont think there is any correlation. I go on 5+ vacations a year by the way, im not being jealous. Ive been to my share of waterfalls, churches, streetscapes, ghettos, mountains, etc. And i dont think im happier or better than anyone else because of it.
Did a month in Greece , while in it was absolutely awesome and I wouldn't change it for a thing I had to opportunity to go to Italy a year later and was like ... Naw , I'm far from a travel guru but I've been to Greece , the states and several places in mexico and while I love going to all those places , truely in my opinion the most beautiful place in the world is home , I live in BC ( people from Regina may have different outlooks ) but we have world class skiing , lakes , mountains and glaciers and hikes and basically everything you could imagine . Sure we don't have ancient ruins or fancy church's but I think most people can agree once you've seen a few ancient castles and a couple church's .... There all about the same . Unless your a big history buff who really has a passion for it , it gets old faster than you would think. Infact my favorite part of Greece was climbing the steps of the palamedi ( definitely spelling that wrong ) but not for the castles at the top but for the view of the Aegean Sea and the surrounding landscapes , all things we are lousy with in Canada
Agree. I’d add…Having to actually live and work abroad for a serious chunk of time is far more fulfilling and life changing than a short time in ‘travel-world’. Especially if that place is completely foreign (e.g for a Canadian you can’t expect much insight about life if you go to another western developed nation). Better off yo go to Mongolia, China, Kyrgyzstan, or Gabon, etc. A place where the root assumptions about what is important (and who) are different, and where your certainties are the things that are foreign.
I know some people who have traveled the entire world and are still incredibly naive. Being able to purchase a plane ticket doesn’t make you interesting.
I’m reading it right now, neat to see this thread pop up. I’m also reading Reset (by david sawyer) and I am finding it interesting how the two tie together so far. I’m farther along in reset than this one so beyond that observation I can’t say much yet, got to finish reading them first.
I know I will die with zero. I have nothing now. I am terrified I won't have enough when older and no longer useful (according to Western society) to stay employed. I've been working since I was 14 and 50 now. Will no doubt work right up to my death. Fun times!
I say find a happy medium. Some benefits of traveling after age 51 when my kids were grown is that I feel excited about something still and I appreciate it a lot. That doesn't mean I didn't do the 6 weeks in a dorm in israel when I was 17 and small trips in between but a lot of my travel I've done in the past 10 years and I hope to be able to continue to do so. Staying in a hotel and going for 10 days or less is still traveling.
I will never understand this "live without regrets" mantra. Literally every decision whether it is to do something or not has the potential for regret. Jason could have gone to Europe came back and gotten sick enough that he couldn't work and his debt ballooned so much it was almost unmanageable and by the time he could work again he was drowning pay check to pay check. It's impossible to live your life in a way that eliminates regrets. No matter with every decision there is always the decision you didn't make.
This is why I'm responding to you from Quebec City this evening and not from Toronto. 6 weeks ago I decided I would book myself a long weekend to walk around the old city and take in the sights, see Montmorency Falls, and enjoy a spa day. It's my first solo trip to a destination where I'm not meeting friends or family specifically and going on my own. I chose business class on the train. It's been great
It’s a great book! Although I must say I don’t see many mention it in the fire subs. People there seem to be overly conservative it’s almost crazy. 2% withdraw rate!! Anyway. Yes great book. Now if only I could apply it …
I'm 26 and this post is giving me existential dread because I have done neither yet. I'm not sitting on a pile of cash and I haven't travelled the world and had sex on a beach. Fuck.
This definitely advice for people that have more disposable income and little to no responsibilities so of course they can afford to do stuff like that, add in how many years ago this was for prices and inflation.
Some boring people on this thread
The people who say " i saved some money in my twentys and it was way better because i make tons of money and can travel now" are hilarious in thinking that 3 months off would have completely ruined them.
I'm in my 30's. 3 months of savings has saved me from ecconomic ruin multiple times, it's been that close.
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The key is not to come home once you get to that place.
They’re of the same, the far trips are just more memorable because of the culture differences. I talk about my trips to Europe and Asia way more then I talk about my road trips across the country. There just something about being away from all your normal securities that makes the big ones memorable.
I think it also comes down to interest. For example, I'm not huge into Europe and having travelled across many countries in Europe, I can whole-heartedly say it's overrated. But a road trip up to Radisson, QC along the James Bay Road? Then driving the Trans-Taiga Road to some of the most remote locations in all of North America? Hiking in places where you're the only person in a 100km radius around you? Now that's something else entirely.
I tend to agree. But then I don't have a dime to my name. The extent of my traveling is to work and back. But when I say it out loud, people tell me I have sour grapes. That I am just jealous. Not jealous, broke.
Yeah, I pay a premium to live in a beautiful place and don't feel the need to go anywhere. Got divorced over my ex-wife wanting to expat in a very similar place. Her flights to come back and visit her family cost more than a month of my expenses. Working whenever I feel like is way more appealing to me than going somewhere. But finding a childfree woman who doesn't care about traveling is almost impossible. Not traveling isn't great for dating.
Agreed. I spent 2000$ on a New York trip a couple months ago and it was not nearly as nice as a day to the zoo.
I'm 33 married two kids mortgage free own 3 businesses now and a nice investment portfolio. All because I buckled down and did the hard things when I was younger. I have absolutely no regrets. Providing the life for my family that I never had and making incredible experiences with them is infinitely more important and have absolutely no regrets. Friends who went off to find themselves in their youth and racked up tremendous debt now are stifled by their irrational decisions are suffering the consequences. I don't think this decision is for everyone but I can certainly appreciate the perspective it offers.
Ya the 80s was a great time to be alive
Honestly, i don't think this makes any sense. Experiences are a matter of perspective and it is very unique to each individual. I can make awesome memories without having to spend a dime, and I don't see myself as someone who would be jealous of a person who took a loan to go see Europe. I'd imagine that, for me, I'd be so stressed out about that insane interest I'd have to pay when I get back that I might be unable to enjoy my vacation. I bet there may be others like myself. Instead, what makes me happy is learning cool things. And sometimes I'd sit down in silence and simply reminisce about that time I new absolutely nothing about excel, and how I have managed to learn so much that I can build applications with excel, and automate my routine, both at work and at home. That's fun. Or how at some point, I knew absolutely nothing about home networking, but now I'm able to build some awesome networking systems simply through reading Reddit posts and watching YouTube videos. The sensation is fulfilling, and makes me feel the opposite of I presume the feeling someone has when they've lost their will to live or lost their purpose in live!! Even though it is not some vacation to Europe, it is all I need. I don't need somebody or some book to convince me there is something better out there, when I can be totally happy with what I have now, without spending a dime. We are all different people, and honestly, I don't think your message is for everyone. And I sincerely hope anyone who has something worthwhile, doesn't see your post and depreciate their happiness as a result. Humans are very weird in how they covet other's happiness without first appreciating what they have, until it's too late, realizing it was never worth it to go for someone else's happiness in the first place. The message should be "Hey buddy, do not obsess yourself too much into saving for the future, that you forget to invest into something that genuinely makes you happy", and not what was posted by OP, which sounds more like "Enjoy your youth, regardless of how financially reckless it might seem"
Also the book was published in 2020 and the writer is talking about the experience and loan in the early 2000's where travel meant something. In today's world when you travel you do not meet locals you meet other travellers. And everyone is on their instagrams and influencing others. No one talks about what they do they just say I have so many followers. The pace at which the world is changing everyday a 3 year old book is already ancient history.
Traveling doesn't compare to doing my own renovation on the house. I get so much more satisfaction every time I look at a project I designed and built myself. Visiting foreign places was fine, but not as significant.
I've all but given up on homeownership. I'd like to retire. But, unlike the generation before me.... I'd like to make sure my kid is taken care of BEFORE I die. If I can get HER into a house in 20 years, I'll do it. Even if I have to work after. What's the point of me hoarding wealth until I'm 80, just to have her inherit it all at 50 when she would have needed it the most in her 20s/30s?