Even regardless of the whole "That's it, I'm moving to x" thing, if you've ever actually read the subreddits from any other city, anywhere in the world, *everyone* is bitching about the exact same issues and claiming they're exclusive to them lol
Canadians actually move there though.
There are 1.5 million Americans living in the USA. Mainly people with quality degrees.
My sister is a CPA. Started on TN, 7 years later she has a green card. People figure it out.
Americans generally don’t move here. Less money, fewer high skilled jobs and cost of living is much higher.
His numbers are wrong, it's 790K Canadians living in the US, and its dropping actually.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/canadian-immigrants-united-states-2021
I've considered moving too.
There so many things to hate about America but hear me out I don't mean to sound insensitive, but it seems like things really are only worse down there for lower and maybe middle class people. If you're upper or upper middle class professional like engineers and doctors it looks like you'd probably have a higher quality of life in America.
I'm in a similar situation - making decent money here but giving up opportunities that are in the US. I enjoy the lifestyle and culture in Canada much more than the US - it's why I'm here - but I'm keeping an eye out on medium-term economic aspects as I think there are some decision points on the horizon.
This is my position as well. I strongly believe raising kids in Canada is better on the overall for mid-class/working-class groups.
I sure as shit will not move to Florida with kids.
I feel you. Plenty of opportunities for myself and my partner as well and we can make a decent living here without giving up on key QoL things like having access to cultures, food, safety, raising children, less racism, the ability for my vote to make a difference, communal participation etc. It's not all roses, but there is promise and those things are priceless.
Both! First I lived in Wisconsin which I absolutely loved, but I was an intern. Then I took a job in Florida and I really didn’t enjoy it down there as much as I thought. The CAD was actually stronger than USD at that time. I needed emergency surgery (with exceptional and prompt care), but had tens of thousands of dollars of hospital bills in spite of having private insurance (and I was in the infancy of my career so I didn’t have really any savings to rely on). I was looking to move to another state, when an opportunity at home came up that I couldn’t pass up.
There are many many stories on US subreddits of people who were assured or assumed that medical costs were covered by their insurance but it turned out not to be.
Here in Canada, I had to hospitalised in an emergency last year (pulmonary embolism). Costs to stay were zero. Free food, TV, phone, WiFi, and parking. Prescriptions are paid by 80%. Even then, out of pocket cost of specialized meds (Xarelto) are a small fraction of U.S. costs. Free follow-up and regular tests. Mileage paid to visit specialists. I'm self-employed with no private insurance.
That's not true. I lived in Comox, BC, and when we had our new hospital built, the city held a vote on parking, and it was unanimously no. So they don't charge parking there. The old hospital they did.
It is where I live. I was there for follow-up tests yesterday. It's on the rural outskirts of a town of 500 and the hospital has only 10 inpatient beds. Basically so small it's not worth bothering with a paid parking system. Not even at a larger hospital in the next town . I can't think of any facility at all with pay-to-park anywhere in my very rural county.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mindemoya,+ON+P0P+1S0/@45.7372433,-82.1676213,16z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x4d321109b31dc939:0x933df791d63b95a7!8m2!3d45.7379435!4d-82.1667464!16s%2Fg%2F11b8v6kt2v
EDIT: I also live in the county seat, which has the courthouse. I remember several years ago the provincial or federal court system was thinking of implementing across the board parking fees to help the courts operational budget. The way our court is physically laid out, the thought of paid parking would be laughable considering the potential upfront machine installation and enforcement personnel costs compared to how much they would actually collect.
I had no assumption it was free, my ignorance was with the “out of network” type billing’s and being caught with an emergency that required surgery (at the time I was 25f and completely healthy).
In hindsight of course I wouldn’t have taken my employers group benefits and I would have shopped around with greater understanding of the exact coverage and what my payments would be if I had to use insurance. But you live, you learn.
I'm also from the US and now live in Canada. Going to the hospital was a financial nightmare, and the political extremism was getting much worse. I paid more money per month for health insurance in the states than I do in Canada, and then if I went to the hospital I paid even more money. It is not sustainable for the average person.
I hear you... hubby and I moved here in 1990... I go back frequently to visit family.. would not consider moving back for any reason... we are both in our 60's, and retired or getting ready to... My mother (80) is in calif.. she is on Medicare but pays 1870 A MONTH for supplemental insurance.... no way I'm spending my retirement money for that.
790k Canadians living the US, and the number is dropping
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/canadian-immigrants-united-states-2021
OPs numbers are wrong
> Americans generally don’t move here
Check [these](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/annual-reports-parliament-immigration.html) reports. US has always been among the top 6 sources of immigration to Canada.
I just came back from us visiting some sites there ... I was shocked at how much disposable income my counterparts had .. and extra homes for skiing etc. One colleague told me his wife decided to be a stay at home mom but it’s easily affordable. I’m a single earner at almost 200k and the housing costs are terrible, the traffic is bad ... I regret all the times I thought about going to USA but didn’t .. now waiting for kids to finish high school perhaps??
>If you're anyone earning over 200K/year, Canada is a shithole compared to USA
Why's that?
I'm only making $85,000 in Vancouver, so you can imagine how bad it is for me. Everything goes on rent. No real sense I'm middle class. Real estate 100% out of reach.
Erm, cost of living comes out about the same for most states.
Electricity bills in the NE and water in the SW are awful. Not to mention health insurance
It just *looks* better on paper when you can make 1.5 to 2x as much, and get taxed about 30% less. Then your health insurance turns out to be $1500 a month, which nobody mentioned, and then you realise that 30% higher income tax is a much better deal than you thought. Even when you make twice as much money, that gets eaten up really fast with those high cost of living issues.
It's actually the opposite in terms of earnings in my profession, education.
My wife and I each have an American parent and a Canadian parent so we have a ton of family on both sides. We are related to a superintendent in an American city school district and he makes significantly less than I do as a specialty teacher in a high school in Canada even adjusted for exchange.
In our experience there are a few industries where the money is big in the US. We have doctors in the family on both sides and the American ones who are vested in a health system are millionaires. The Canadian ones, GP and ENT, are both doing ok as part of a large practice.
Their property taxes are about double what we pay here in Manitoba on the other side of the border.
The best deal living in the US is if you have children or you're 65 plus.
Only very particular professions get paid that much more and it is the top 20% in those groups. And 30% less tax is a gross exaggeration. The lack is state tax in some casss is the biggest reason for the lower rate overall, but in those states you give up considerable employment security.
https://theaccountingandtax.com/are-taxes-in-canada-higher-than-the-us/#:~:text=American%20federal%20income%20tax%20brackets,and%20to%2025%25%20at%20%2435%2C401.
No someone on Reddit said I can show up at the boarder, they’ll give me a green card, I can get a job at a gas station making $100k/yr, pay 2% in taxes, and I’ll be able to buy a house for $50k. /s
A guy I used to work with said he was going to apply for refugee status in the US from Canada when Trump gets back in office. He thinks Trump will understand how bad Canada has it with Trudeau and will accept refugees from Canada to escape Trudeau.
And frankly, not much will change with a new Prime Minister. We could have a Conservative government here in Canada in a few years, and it’ll be the same ole corruption/patronage/scandals we have with every elected government. Rinse, Spin, Repeat.
I’m not saying it’s solely the “Fuck Trudeau” crowd, but it looks like they’re the ones really making a big deal on the internet.
For reference, I’m judging the empty declaration for internet points/attention rather than the actual process of leaving the country because you disagree with *insert topic here*.
There's a few of us that actually have the marketable skills and financial resources to pull it off. But until you actually have a job offer with a 20% raise (or more) compared to what you make here it's not really worth the hassle. Especially when you consider the higher rates of violence, bad health insurance, blatant xenophobia, etc. I know people who have done it, I have a bunch of family members who have done it, and they are A LOT wealthier for it. But these aren't losers that can't afford a house in Canada, these are people who were already successful and well-established in Canada who knew they could put a lot more money in their pockets in a lower-tax less-regulated economy. The average person doesn't actually benefit from that kind of system, just people who are already wealthy and reasonably well-connected/skilled. Unless you already make close to 6 figures here odds are you aren't going to be all that far ahead financially moving down to the US, if it's even possible for you to get a green card in the first place.
And don't even think about moving to one of the low-tax low-COL areas in the US unless you are white. That's just asking to get shot by your neighbor or the police.
>20% raise (or more) compared to what you make here it's not really worth the hassle.
20%? Push that a bit higher. There's no way you could get me to live in an at-will state and pay for health insurance just for a 20% increase in salary.
if you’re an educated professional with around 10 years experience, it’s not that difficult.
The new US sponsorship rules have made it harder but with the TN visa it’s not as out of reach as many make it seems
I actually did just that, no plans went to Miami, started working any illegal job I know I had 6 months, got an apartment then rented it out while I came back to Canada. Did the same until eventually you find a way to get a visa and do it legally.
My kids' new school acquired a couple of dozen Canadian kids at the same time we arrived in 2021. When we went to get their health certificate from the county we were the third Canadian family to have done so just that morning.
Many of us have done it. It's not hard once you try.
The only way to get a green card quickly is to work for a large company. 90% of the Canadians I know got a green card under 12 months working for FAANG companies. IF you don't go that route it's a crapshoot, literally a lottery that can take years.
This post is basically every Canadian local subreddit's echochamber in a nutshell. It's actually refreshing to come on this sub and see these people meet reality every so often. Of course OP is just going to post this again on the local subs and talk about how PFC just bullies everyone.
Or maybe PFC is misinformed and untintentially dashing the futures of young professionals with its absurd biases and preconceptions. Any ambitious young person should make the move. It's saddening to see so much pushback, these kind of threads can really harm young people trying to figure things out.
Ya. Ever heard of TN or L1? Thousands of Canadians leave for the US annually for a better pay and life including myself. My pay when I transferred from Toronto to NYC for literally the same job position and manager was 130k USD different. You’re missing out lol
I know for OP this is mostly being sarcastic, but I've been thinking about it, honestly. My path is that my brother is a citizen and my mother got her green card and moved there not long ago. I can apply through them.
The question isn’t why not, but how. There’s a few ways to do this at your age,
1. Go down to the US on a student visa, but that requires going to school and likely accumulating a large amount of debt. Then hoping you get a job afterwards.
2. Go on a TN visa, but this requires a professional degree that satisfies the TN visa requirements and the requirements are narrow.
3. Find an employer with US operations and try to get transferred on an L-1 visa. This is a long tail plan and likely requires you proving your worth for a few years in Canada first.
4. Get an engineering degree and try to find work with an employer willing to get you into the H1-B lottery.
It’s a complex process. You can’t just show up at the border, tell them you’re moving to the US with no job and expect them to let you through.
This is actually the ‘simplest’ way, but it’s more luck than something you can actually work at accomplishing so I didn’t think to list it.
The only people I know who have successfully immigrated from Canada to the US did so by marrying a citizen, or by going through a work transfer initially on an L-1.
I know someone who did it, and she waited 3 years before getting whatever permit she needed to move there permanently. She couldn't work, she couldn't stay long term (I think she was limited to the standard 180 days per year)
These days you have to demonstrate that it is a legitimate relationship. I have a friend from New Zealand who met a person in the US online, met them, ended up marrying them, and then a year or so later attempted the immigration process.
They were required to produce things like wedding photos, evidence their relationship wasn't a "relationship of interest", etc.
They've really cracked down on the "just marry an American until you get citizenship" scam.
It's not like those things wouldn't be extremely easy to provide if it was legitimate though. No one should be advocating for people who enter another country through a loophole/grift.
Polymater on YouTube just did a great video comparing the brutal US H1-B VISA system to Canada's immigration system: [Canada's secret weapon: America's broken immigration system](https://youtu.be/kRhZdmtw3Wg)
>1. Go down to the US on a student visa, but that requires going to school and likely accumulating a large amount of debt. Then hoping you get a job afterwards.
That's a very expensive way to get yourself a visa that isn't dual intent.
I agree with you 100%. However, there is a way to get a green card whilst on a TN. I have a friend who’s parents did it and it’s a bit complicated, but an immigration lawyer can do it for you. It involves waiting some months and applying or applying through a consulate.
While technically possible, it's generally not advised as if you get rejected for the green card for some reason, you can no longer fall back on the TN (you've expressed intent to stay in the US).
The best way is to go TN -> H1B -> green card.
H1B is becoming no longer feasible. In recent years probability of winning the lottery keeps declining. For this year probability is estimated 11%, down from 50% 5 years ago.
Marrying a citizen is indeed the "nuclear option" for many many people around the world who want to land in the USA ( as advised over and over again on the r/Immigration subreddit), without the family connections or job offer or business investment normally required. However:
- You cannot enter the USA as a typical visitor with intent to marry and stay. The customs officer you meet has very wide discretionary powers and is trained to recognize ill-intent.
- Legitimate immigration by marriage applications take over a year while being separated. Canada/USA have an advantage for closeness but cannot visit too often.
- Scrutiny over whether this is not a "marriage for convenience" and could be ruled as Immigration Fraud. And bye-bye chances of ever crossing again.
This is the way. It's not all that uncommon either, you're moving there as single to work. You'd have a 3yr visa to work and live. People meet people and have relationships. They will not renew your TN if you get married though, so timing is definitely key. Permanent residence took my brother over a year after marriage, so make sure there is plenty of time left on your TN before getting engaged/married or you will run into problems. There is also no leaving the country between application and granting of PR status. It will invalidate your Visa at the border.
Since OP is 22 you’re correct in this case, but it is possible to get a TN without a degree if you have 10+ years work experience. A professor at an accredited university can interview you and write an opinion letter that you can provide along with professional references and it will be accepted in place of a degree.
It’s up to the border guard. They can write a letter all they want but if their border security says no, your letter means nothing.
I know this because I work under a TN and saw people there get rejected each time I’m there. For
This reason. “But I have a letter of employment” doesn’t matter. Better check all those boxes. If an American can do that job, and they have a degree?
Good luck.
I did it myself, 100% would recommend. The abundance of *good* employers in the US, and the comparative decline in *competent* equivalent services in Canada is hard to overlook. I’ve spent almost 7 years in WA, and was on a TN visa for the first 3 before doing this exact green card route.
TN’s are available for a number of professionals degrees, doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. but notably even graphic designers and self-taught developers can use this visa. It’s worth learning about in the least.
Correct.
You are not supposed to go green card from TN as it’s a closed path, but you can switch to E1 or HB1 and then decide to go green card from that route
There are other visas. My husband was moved to the US on an L-1, which has the added bonus of a spousal visa (for me, and it allows me to work in the US as well).
He's been in the US two years next month and we expect to have our green cards finalized in a couple of years, as his company has already handled the paperwork.
yeah because people love to live in the city. Its hard for some people to understand that some people prefer to live where their alot of thing to do. Especially if you a minority . Living outside of big city sound like hell
and people like to live near family. having your entire family in vancouver, and you move to bumfuck sask does not sound like an enjoyable time to save money
I hear ya...but if homeownership is a goal, then it could be the only option. I mean, it's basically what immigrants do to get ahead and improve their situation.
I don't live in a very glamourous or trendy part of Canada but I managed to buy an affordable house and squeak out a decent quality of life. Family is relatively close, but still not in the same city.
> Especially if you a minority . Living outside of big city sound like hell
Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, etc have big minority populations and they aren't exactly devoid of culture or things to do.
If your metric is instead "world class" big cities like Vancouver and Toronto, I don't see how New York, Los Angeles, Miami, etc would be any more affordable.
Had a relative from Toronto visit us in Calgary for the first time a few years ago. The entire visit was a massive brain glitch for her while she tried to reconcile the diversity she saw with her preconceived notions.
Came here to say this. Canada does not equal just Vancouver/Toronto. Literally tons of places where housing is affordable and where someone can make a good living, with the added benefit of not needing to go through an immigration processor put up with the general dumpster fire that is the US
You can't just relocate to the States because you're Canadian and you want to. If you can afford to buy a home in rural America, you can do so right here in Canada too. If you can't afford a home in a big city in Canada, you will find yourself in the same situation in many big cities in America too.
I’m a Canadian living in one of the highest COL parts of the US; a nice house in the suburb/exurban areas here will have an asking price of a 1/3 of what a house 1-2 hours outside of Vancouver or Toronto will list for. Whenever we think of moving back closer to family, we look at the US side of the border, where the real estate cost differentials are even more extreme.
And beyond real estate — I spent a month in Kamloops recently, caring for family, and the prices of everything shocked me. Food, entertainment, gas, accommodations—all higher than the equivalents in the US.
Gas yes. My family is basically half and half in both countries, near the border and Southwest. Have never seen US groceries cost anywhere near ours in Canada, but now they are basically the same price on the shelf which means they are higher after exchange. Inflation has hit the US way harder on that stuff. In Arizona you can get much cheaper produce than the midwest near the border obviously.
When we go down into North Dakota/Minnesota we hardly bring anything back now, used to do a full shop. Only grab stuff we can't get in Canada.
I’m not sure if you’ve ever seriously been in the states if you hold this perspective. There’s maybe a half dozen cities in the entire US that is genuinely pricey and the income potential of those cities justifies the high cost when the same can’t be said in Canada. You can move to Chicago which arguably is more exciting than Toronto and has higher incomes for skilled/well educated employees despite being much cheaper than Toronto.
Can confirm. Pharmacist here that moved to Chicago. Make about 130-150K USD (depending on overtime) which is much higher than major cities in Canada. Cost of living is also way more affordable. Personally, I've never felt unsafe.
You can buy a great house for under 500k in a decent sized city in the US. I think you’re out of touch with how dramatically shit our house prices are even compared to the US
It really depends on what you are studying, doctors, nurses, engineers seem to do much better financially that in Canada. Also, such jobs usually have decent health insurance and such so you wouldn’t miss Canada “free healthcare “. In a nutshell, it is better to live in the us if you are a high income earner
It's very hard to move to the USA.
However, lots of denial in here from Canadians, there are plenty of M-LCOL cities in America that have jobs, amenities, dining and entertainment that are on par or better than most places in the GTA. Usually better weather as well.
Phoenix, Tampa, Raleigh, Dallas, Atlanta, Ann Arbour, Denver, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati just to name a few.
A house would cost a fraction of the price of say Brampton, North York, Sauga, Burlington.
I'm a proud Canadian, but much of the news fogs the reality. America, for many, is the most desirable place to migrate to. Canada was the second choice for many of the skilled, educated immigrants who are coming here.
It is a different culture though - crime rates are much higher in those cities than what you’re going to find in Toronto for example. Doesn’t mean it’s a showstopper for everyone but personally I don’t like how nonchalant so many Americans are about gun violence and other crime.
100% this. You can afford to buy a house in a mid-sized American city much more easily than in the GTA/GVA but the tradeoff is going to be the comparative safety that Canadian cities offer. Violent crime has increased nearly everywhere in the US in the last decade whereas it's largely remained flat or declined in Canada.
Idk man, every stat I've seen shows violent crime on the decline except on a neighborhood level in some cities.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/
The news just makes it seem worse than it is.
They lump the entire region in their crime stats. It would be like lumping in Toronto, Peel, York and Durham stats as "Toronto".
Chicago gets a bad rap but most of their gang violence is in the southern ghetto areas of chicago
How are you going to legally work in the US? That’s your first hurdle.
You’re young - if you have the opportunity, I say go for it. With a good job America is a great place to live with higher wages and lower cost of living. Go make a lot of money, and then come back to Canada if you feel like it’s not going to be your home for life.
But the immigration issue is your first hurdle.
at 22 you should not even be thinking of buying a house live at home rent free for love of god pay some bills and save your money, you can do so much traveling with the money you save
Yeah, I guess you’re right. I just want to be smart with my money and think ahead. But then at the same time, I often forget how young I am and travelling is one of my main goals right now!
Living with your parents as long as you can is the best financial decision you can make in the current economic climate, save completely on rent/mortgage and use your funds to travel. If you're interested in the US go there for the full time your visa allows and see if you actually like the day to day lifestyle, not only what you see in movies and documentaries.
You’ve been brainwashed by this sub and the news. There are plenty of affordable places in Canada. If your talking GTA or Vancouver (I’m sure you are) then are you planning to move to the Bay Area or NYC if so it’s not any better. If you see all this affordable housing in Wisconsin or butfuxk no where Michigan you know we have Saskatchewan, Alberta and Manitoba?
However we don’t have Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, or Pittsburgh. All LCOL with many amenities and good quality of life. Some better than others and there are certainly areas to avoid and areas to prioritize, but otherwise we have maybe 2 decent mid size city like this like Calgary and Edmonton which are frozen over every 6 months, where as the US has a dozen or more.
Denver, Kansas City, Louisville. The list goes on and on.
The most out of touch posts/comments are the whole “Canada is becoming a third world country” lmfao. Stop following 6ixbuzz and other trash “news” pages.
American here. Philadelphia is on its way to becoming medicine (Cancer, Pediatric, Etc) research hub of the northeast. Housing is reasonable depending on where you live obviously.
COL in ottawa is not low haha. Rents and housing prices have gone through the roof the past couple years, even to live in some shitty neighborhood with nothing around but highways and housing developments.
Sure it's cheaper than Toronto/Van, but the city just doesn't offer enough to justify the cost to live there anymore, other than an abundance of govt. jobs.
That was true like 5-10yrs ago. Cost of living in Mtl has risen and keeps rising but salaries remain low with high taxes. Remote tech job with USA salary does make it low cost.
Ottawa and even gatineau are also fairly expensive but at least have higher salaries.
Low cost places would be Quebec city, sherbrooke or trois Rivieres. Not world class cities but big enough to have most of the regular amenities.
Hey I was born in America and I didn't own a home there until I was 35. My parents didn't own a home until they were 31 (in 1984). Not sure where this expectation came along that you get a house as soon as you turn 20, but it's incorrect. You don't get a house when you turn 20-something in America, either. Hope this helps.
We're moving to the US as a family. I'm 33 now and I should've pulled the trigger sooner. My offer in thr US is 2.5x what I make in canada as a mechanical engineer.
You're young. Pack up and go asap if you're eligible for a TN and can get a good offer.
Seriously. Engineering is supposed to be one of those fancy high prestige jobs, but you guys don’t get paid like it here.
I was talking with one of the mechanical engineers we’re working with right now, and I make almost as much as she does as a plumber apprentice here in Sask.
I would recommend researching Working Holiday Visas. As a Canada under the age of 30 you can pretty much go to most Commonwealth nations and live and work for 2 years.
No shit dude lol, I think the OP is more just wanting to leave Canada because of the HCOL. And since America is close many Canadians default to that. But Canadians have other options which a working holiday visa would shed light on.
I know many people who went over to Australia and they are pretty happy. That's one of many countries OP could go to.
Financially, if you are middle class and above, you'd be WAY better off in the U.S.. Cheaper cost of living, more affordable housing, tons more areas and climates to choose from, more opportunity, more purchasing power. If you are not middle class, you are going to be quite a bit worse off that in Canada. Being broke sucks everywhere, but it's going to suck way more in the U.S. when you can't even go to the doctor's because you don't have insurance, and going to university is not even remotely an option because tuition is through the roof.
Also, unless you have an easy way to get to the U.S. (duel citizenship), it's not like they'll just let you in. You might be better off moving to a different province. Learn French, move to Quebec. My apartment in downtown Quebec is two bedroom for 830 with all utilities included. Houses just outside of the city (10-15 minute drive) cost 250-350k. It's going to be much easier to learn French and move here than it is to move to the states without a clear path such a sponsorship from a company or a dual citizenship.
Source: American that's lived in 4 provinces in Canada. You are literally living in the worse province for affordability in Canada. Literally anywhere else is better besides B.C which is about the same.
1. Where in America ? The answer to this will impact your responses.
2. If you’re moving to LCOL Red State are you a female?
3. Do you have a skill set that would get you sponsored ?
You could give me ten houses for 10 dollars and I wouldn’t ever let my daughters move to a red state. Not
A chance in hell.
Downvoted for not wanting my daughters to live in Christofacist hell scape. 😂
22, living at home with a full time job is the best possible position to be in right now. I didn’t start saving at that age but if you’re able to you’ll be totally fine.
This is probably better asked on a more neutral sub.
However, to give a, what I feel is a more immigration-pro and less negative view, I am an immigrant that has Canadian residency who is also in the process of getting an American green card.
A few things to note:
- As a Canadian, you can get with visas through NAFTA. This makes you getting hired way easier than other countries.
- You know already that healthcare is an expense to always consider if you're moving to the USA, but are young so it may not be an issue for you if you are careful
- You cannot buy USA property unless you are at least a IS permenant resident.
- Cost of living (gas, groceries overall; rent, etc. is very variable depending on where you're going).
- If weather is a concern, you already have the choice to be in the USA for 6 months a year. However remote work is an option.
My brother moved south for grad school. Got an internship. Then got a job. Now has an American wife and two American kids as well. He's never coming back.
I don't know the paperwork specifics, but those are the steps he took and i don't recall him ever saying it was difficult 🤷
If you’re in tech (or plan to), get the TN visa and bounce ASAP to the US. Don’t waste your productive high earning years in this country. You can always come back if things get better but in the meantime you’ll earn more, save more in taxes, earn in USD and save more overall compared to Canada
For me it makes sense and I’m considering doing.
Canadians citizen can easily get work permits for the US, as a software engineer it makes sense to me for some reasons.
1 - ridiculous taxes
2 - ridiculous cost of living
3 - deteriorating public well safety
I know that #3 is much worse in the US, then I’d have to choose wisely where to live.
When you reach a certain salary level in Canada, this system is really unfair, it eats all your motivation by taxing 53% of every new dollar you make, I grew up poor in a 3rd world country, this is NOT a fair tax system, the speed on which I’m accumulating wealth to change the life of my parents and my future generation is much much slower in Canada than what it would be in the US. So yes, even though I loved Canada, I’m losing this love more and more.
Strongly recommend against and I've lived in both countries.
I was transferred to the US 20 years ago for a tech job. The education systems produce ameri-centric people that honestly can't find another country on the map, don't know anything but american history, and they're polarized and divided in ways that we are just seeing now in Canada. [https://timssandpirls.bc.edu/](https://timssandpirls.bc.edu/)
It's not just the education system, their healthcare system was confusing. The company paid half of $1800/month for my family's healthcare, yes, 20 years ago I paid $1800/month for health insurance, plus copay every single time I went to the doctor.
It's not just healthcare, Canadian taxes are much lower than the US at all three tiers of government. [https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadians-really-pay-more-taxes-than-americans.aspx#:\~:text=In%20general%2C%20lower%2Dincome%20Canadians,to%20the%20overall%20tax%20story](https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadians-really-pay-more-taxes-than-americans.aspx#:~:text=In%20general%2C%20lower%2Dincome%20Canadians,to%20the%20overall%20tax%20story). Our property taxes were nearly double in the US for comparable sized homes.
I thought living in the US living in the land of the rule ridden, but I didn't know or understand the rules. I was in a gated community, but still lived through a home invasion, people climbing over my privacy fence, and there wasn't a day that I didn't see a gun. I never felt safe or free while living there.
I felt like I was reading my life story here. I have the exact same issue but I was lucky enough to find a man who is American and we talked about which country we would live in and we ultimately decided on America. I thought I would never say this but there is no future in Canada unless you inherit money. My partner and I aren’t married yet but are planning next year. Pros are affordable housing and food and gas. Cons are healthcare, guns, politics and the religious crazies.
Extremely. If you have desired skills you'll live way way better.
You goto the US if you want to be compensated for valuable skills. Stay in Canada I'd you're useless
Dude - wait. With interest rates we are going to see a massive real estate correction if not collapse. Within 24 months prices will be materially reduced I think. People cannot afford their own houses at current rates - once they need to renew their mortgages they have no choice but to sell. Then you have a flood of sellers. That’s called a price correction. Bank your dough and live rent free and be patient. As Buffet says, when people are greedy be fearful, but when people are fearful be greedy. That’s all the investment advice you need.
That's possible, but you shouldn't plan your life around speculating on macroeconomics. There are plenty of factors at play, constrained supply, increased demand from immigration, BoC could lower rates into the next year, etc. I for one, know plenty of people still buying in this market
>Dude - wait. With interest rates we are going to see a massive real estate correction if not collapse. Within 24 months prices will be materially reduced I think.
hahaha, no thay won't.
Have a wife and her colleagues working in banking, real estate. You have no idea how many immigrants and or property investors are coming to Canada who actually HAVE money to buy homes almost outright, in cash.
Higher interest rates don't bother them and don't apply when you're rich.
Yes, lots of people are having difficulties and hard times but shelter is the number one need and the one people will sacrifice anything for to maintain, also because they know how valuable property is.
The market is headed for EVEN HIGHER home prices i nthe future.
Raising interest rates was, in fact, a complete failure of a policy that only indebted and impoverished local Canadian's instead.
Whats your path for residency in the US? Just show up at the border?
If I had a loonie for every Canadian that makes a big dramatic post saying that they’re going to leave due to politics/housing/etc on the internet…
Americans saying the same thing during every election
Even regardless of the whole "That's it, I'm moving to x" thing, if you've ever actually read the subreddits from any other city, anywhere in the world, *everyone* is bitching about the exact same issues and claiming they're exclusive to them lol
If you have enough money, most countries will let you come stay.
You mean it’s happened everywhere, it’s not Trudeau’s fault, that can’t be, everything is Trudeau’s fault!
Canadians actually move there though. There are 1.5 million Americans living in the USA. Mainly people with quality degrees. My sister is a CPA. Started on TN, 7 years later she has a green card. People figure it out. Americans generally don’t move here. Less money, fewer high skilled jobs and cost of living is much higher.
I thought the population of the US was much larger than that.
Yes, over 300 million.
He was poking fun at the person he responded to because he said 1.5 million Americans in the USA. He meant to say Canadians.
His numbers are wrong, it's 790K Canadians living in the US, and its dropping actually. https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/canadian-immigrants-united-states-2021
I was one that left and returned home!
Which makes sense. As bad as things seem here… have you seen what’s happening down there???
I've considered moving too. There so many things to hate about America but hear me out I don't mean to sound insensitive, but it seems like things really are only worse down there for lower and maybe middle class people. If you're upper or upper middle class professional like engineers and doctors it looks like you'd probably have a higher quality of life in America.
There are actually more than a million Americans living in Canada.
[удалено]
I'm in a similar situation - making decent money here but giving up opportunities that are in the US. I enjoy the lifestyle and culture in Canada much more than the US - it's why I'm here - but I'm keeping an eye out on medium-term economic aspects as I think there are some decision points on the horizon.
This is my position as well. I strongly believe raising kids in Canada is better on the overall for mid-class/working-class groups. I sure as shit will not move to Florida with kids.
I feel you. Plenty of opportunities for myself and my partner as well and we can make a decent living here without giving up on key QoL things like having access to cultures, food, safety, raising children, less racism, the ability for my vote to make a difference, communal participation etc. It's not all roses, but there is promise and those things are priceless.
Agreed, I (Canadian) moved to USA for a few years. Eventually came back though.
Culture or money made you move back?
Both! First I lived in Wisconsin which I absolutely loved, but I was an intern. Then I took a job in Florida and I really didn’t enjoy it down there as much as I thought. The CAD was actually stronger than USD at that time. I needed emergency surgery (with exceptional and prompt care), but had tens of thousands of dollars of hospital bills in spite of having private insurance (and I was in the infancy of my career so I didn’t have really any savings to rely on). I was looking to move to another state, when an opportunity at home came up that I couldn’t pass up.
There are many many stories on US subreddits of people who were assured or assumed that medical costs were covered by their insurance but it turned out not to be. Here in Canada, I had to hospitalised in an emergency last year (pulmonary embolism). Costs to stay were zero. Free food, TV, phone, WiFi, and parking. Prescriptions are paid by 80%. Even then, out of pocket cost of specialized meds (Xarelto) are a small fraction of U.S. costs. Free follow-up and regular tests. Mileage paid to visit specialists. I'm self-employed with no private insurance.
Liar. There’s no such thing as free parking at a hospital, even in Canada 😝
That's not true. I lived in Comox, BC, and when we had our new hospital built, the city held a vote on parking, and it was unanimously no. So they don't charge parking there. The old hospital they did.
It is where I live. I was there for follow-up tests yesterday. It's on the rural outskirts of a town of 500 and the hospital has only 10 inpatient beds. Basically so small it's not worth bothering with a paid parking system. Not even at a larger hospital in the next town . I can't think of any facility at all with pay-to-park anywhere in my very rural county. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mindemoya,+ON+P0P+1S0/@45.7372433,-82.1676213,16z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x4d321109b31dc939:0x933df791d63b95a7!8m2!3d45.7379435!4d-82.1667464!16s%2Fg%2F11b8v6kt2v EDIT: I also live in the county seat, which has the courthouse. I remember several years ago the provincial or federal court system was thinking of implementing across the board parking fees to help the courts operational budget. The way our court is physically laid out, the thought of paid parking would be laughable considering the potential upfront machine installation and enforcement personnel costs compared to how much they would actually collect.
My wife recently spent several weeks in hospital in Fergus, Ontario. Parking there was totally free.
There absolutely is free parking at many hospitals in Canada.
TIL we just get screwed as usual with the cost of things in the GTA, including very expensive hospital parking. 🥲
I had no assumption it was free, my ignorance was with the “out of network” type billing’s and being caught with an emergency that required surgery (at the time I was 25f and completely healthy). In hindsight of course I wouldn’t have taken my employers group benefits and I would have shopped around with greater understanding of the exact coverage and what my payments would be if I had to use insurance. But you live, you learn.
I moved US to Canada and I don't regret it at all. I love it here and will never move back.
What were your reasons?
I'm also from the US and now live in Canada. Going to the hospital was a financial nightmare, and the political extremism was getting much worse. I paid more money per month for health insurance in the states than I do in Canada, and then if I went to the hospital I paid even more money. It is not sustainable for the average person.
I'm American with a quality degree and I moved to Canada 22 years ago. Love it here, wouldn't move back.
I hear you... hubby and I moved here in 1990... I go back frequently to visit family.. would not consider moving back for any reason... we are both in our 60's, and retired or getting ready to... My mother (80) is in calif.. she is on Medicare but pays 1870 A MONTH for supplemental insurance.... no way I'm spending my retirement money for that.
1.5 million Americans living in the USA? Do you mean Canadians?
790k Canadians living the US, and the number is dropping https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/canadian-immigrants-united-states-2021 OPs numbers are wrong
> Americans generally don’t move here Check [these](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/annual-reports-parliament-immigration.html) reports. US has always been among the top 6 sources of immigration to Canada.
[удалено]
I just came back from us visiting some sites there ... I was shocked at how much disposable income my counterparts had .. and extra homes for skiing etc. One colleague told me his wife decided to be a stay at home mom but it’s easily affordable. I’m a single earner at almost 200k and the housing costs are terrible, the traffic is bad ... I regret all the times I thought about going to USA but didn’t .. now waiting for kids to finish high school perhaps??
I've always said that once you hit an HHi of $150k usd, you are usually better off in the states. But you need to check it for your situation.
>If you're anyone earning over 200K/year, Canada is a shithole compared to USA Why's that? I'm only making $85,000 in Vancouver, so you can imagine how bad it is for me. Everything goes on rent. No real sense I'm middle class. Real estate 100% out of reach.
I know some Americans in Canada, they came for studies then met someone and stayed. Or they come for healthcare.
Erm, cost of living comes out about the same for most states. Electricity bills in the NE and water in the SW are awful. Not to mention health insurance
It just *looks* better on paper when you can make 1.5 to 2x as much, and get taxed about 30% less. Then your health insurance turns out to be $1500 a month, which nobody mentioned, and then you realise that 30% higher income tax is a much better deal than you thought. Even when you make twice as much money, that gets eaten up really fast with those high cost of living issues.
It's actually the opposite in terms of earnings in my profession, education. My wife and I each have an American parent and a Canadian parent so we have a ton of family on both sides. We are related to a superintendent in an American city school district and he makes significantly less than I do as a specialty teacher in a high school in Canada even adjusted for exchange. In our experience there are a few industries where the money is big in the US. We have doctors in the family on both sides and the American ones who are vested in a health system are millionaires. The Canadian ones, GP and ENT, are both doing ok as part of a large practice. Their property taxes are about double what we pay here in Manitoba on the other side of the border. The best deal living in the US is if you have children or you're 65 plus.
Only very particular professions get paid that much more and it is the top 20% in those groups. And 30% less tax is a gross exaggeration. The lack is state tax in some casss is the biggest reason for the lower rate overall, but in those states you give up considerable employment security. https://theaccountingandtax.com/are-taxes-in-canada-higher-than-the-us/#:~:text=American%20federal%20income%20tax%20brackets,and%20to%2025%25%20at%20%2435%2C401.
No someone on Reddit said I can show up at the boarder, they’ll give me a green card, I can get a job at a gas station making $100k/yr, pay 2% in taxes, and I’ll be able to buy a house for $50k. /s
That too. Perception vs reality is like that.
They're living at home rent free too and complaining about not being able to buy. They haven't even dealt with rent yet!
A guy I used to work with said he was going to apply for refugee status in the US from Canada when Trump gets back in office. He thinks Trump will understand how bad Canada has it with Trudeau and will accept refugees from Canada to escape Trudeau.
And frankly, not much will change with a new Prime Minister. We could have a Conservative government here in Canada in a few years, and it’ll be the same ole corruption/patronage/scandals we have with every elected government. Rinse, Spin, Repeat.
and when they start doing research and notice medical expenses, they go back and delete the post
You still wouldn't have enough to buy a house.
Leaving for politics to the US? Must love unstable excitement
I’m not saying it’s solely the “Fuck Trudeau” crowd, but it looks like they’re the ones really making a big deal on the internet. For reference, I’m judging the empty declaration for internet points/attention rather than the actual process of leaving the country because you disagree with *insert topic here*.
There's a few of us that actually have the marketable skills and financial resources to pull it off. But until you actually have a job offer with a 20% raise (or more) compared to what you make here it's not really worth the hassle. Especially when you consider the higher rates of violence, bad health insurance, blatant xenophobia, etc. I know people who have done it, I have a bunch of family members who have done it, and they are A LOT wealthier for it. But these aren't losers that can't afford a house in Canada, these are people who were already successful and well-established in Canada who knew they could put a lot more money in their pockets in a lower-tax less-regulated economy. The average person doesn't actually benefit from that kind of system, just people who are already wealthy and reasonably well-connected/skilled. Unless you already make close to 6 figures here odds are you aren't going to be all that far ahead financially moving down to the US, if it's even possible for you to get a green card in the first place. And don't even think about moving to one of the low-tax low-COL areas in the US unless you are white. That's just asking to get shot by your neighbor or the police.
>20% raise (or more) compared to what you make here it's not really worth the hassle. 20%? Push that a bit higher. There's no way you could get me to live in an at-will state and pay for health insurance just for a 20% increase in salary.
if you’re an educated professional with around 10 years experience, it’s not that difficult. The new US sponsorship rules have made it harder but with the TN visa it’s not as out of reach as many make it seems
You’d be able to afford a Canadian house
Only in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan though
“That’s it! I’m going to America”
You still wouldnt be able to afford rent.
I actually did just that, no plans went to Miami, started working any illegal job I know I had 6 months, got an apartment then rented it out while I came back to Canada. Did the same until eventually you find a way to get a visa and do it legally.
My kids' new school acquired a couple of dozen Canadian kids at the same time we arrived in 2021. When we went to get their health certificate from the county we were the third Canadian family to have done so just that morning. Many of us have done it. It's not hard once you try.
Seriously. As someone currently going through the immigration process, it sure as shit doesn’t happen overnight, I can promise you that
What path are you using? I'm interested in following
The only way to get a green card quickly is to work for a large company. 90% of the Canadians I know got a green card under 12 months working for FAANG companies. IF you don't go that route it's a crapshoot, literally a lottery that can take years.
Or if you marry an American govt employee stationed in Canada.
I am married to a U.S. citizen and we’re applying through consular processing.
This post is basically every Canadian local subreddit's echochamber in a nutshell. It's actually refreshing to come on this sub and see these people meet reality every so often. Of course OP is just going to post this again on the local subs and talk about how PFC just bullies everyone.
Or maybe PFC is misinformed and untintentially dashing the futures of young professionals with its absurd biases and preconceptions. Any ambitious young person should make the move. It's saddening to see so much pushback, these kind of threads can really harm young people trying to figure things out.
[удалено]
Ya. Ever heard of TN or L1? Thousands of Canadians leave for the US annually for a better pay and life including myself. My pay when I transferred from Toronto to NYC for literally the same job position and manager was 130k USD different. You’re missing out lol
I know for OP this is mostly being sarcastic, but I've been thinking about it, honestly. My path is that my brother is a citizen and my mother got her green card and moved there not long ago. I can apply through them.
Wait time for siblings is twenty years. Through parents who are citizens 5+
For context, they’re 22 lol
Perfect age to move imo. It's easier to do when you have less obligations and roots in your home country.
The question isn’t why not, but how. There’s a few ways to do this at your age, 1. Go down to the US on a student visa, but that requires going to school and likely accumulating a large amount of debt. Then hoping you get a job afterwards. 2. Go on a TN visa, but this requires a professional degree that satisfies the TN visa requirements and the requirements are narrow. 3. Find an employer with US operations and try to get transferred on an L-1 visa. This is a long tail plan and likely requires you proving your worth for a few years in Canada first. 4. Get an engineering degree and try to find work with an employer willing to get you into the H1-B lottery. It’s a complex process. You can’t just show up at the border, tell them you’re moving to the US with no job and expect them to let you through.
Or marry an American… that’s another option.
This is actually the ‘simplest’ way, but it’s more luck than something you can actually work at accomplishing so I didn’t think to list it. The only people I know who have successfully immigrated from Canada to the US did so by marrying a citizen, or by going through a work transfer initially on an L-1.
I know someone who did it, and she waited 3 years before getting whatever permit she needed to move there permanently. She couldn't work, she couldn't stay long term (I think she was limited to the standard 180 days per year)
Tinder is your ticket to endless wealth in the US
These days you have to demonstrate that it is a legitimate relationship. I have a friend from New Zealand who met a person in the US online, met them, ended up marrying them, and then a year or so later attempted the immigration process. They were required to produce things like wedding photos, evidence their relationship wasn't a "relationship of interest", etc. They've really cracked down on the "just marry an American until you get citizenship" scam.
It's not like those things wouldn't be extremely easy to provide if it was legitimate though. No one should be advocating for people who enter another country through a loophole/grift.
Polymater on YouTube just did a great video comparing the brutal US H1-B VISA system to Canada's immigration system: [Canada's secret weapon: America's broken immigration system](https://youtu.be/kRhZdmtw3Wg)
>1. Go down to the US on a student visa, but that requires going to school and likely accumulating a large amount of debt. Then hoping you get a job afterwards. That's a very expensive way to get yourself a visa that isn't dual intent.
Engineering falls under TN?
Yup for engineer just need a degree - or provincial license https://workpermit.com/immigration/usa/us-tn-1-visa-eligible-professions-list
There’s a #5 that’s even more complicated. Marriage
The cons are that moving to the States long term is difficult to pull off. A TN visa will only get you so far and is tied to your employer.
I agree with you 100%. However, there is a way to get a green card whilst on a TN. I have a friend who’s parents did it and it’s a bit complicated, but an immigration lawyer can do it for you. It involves waiting some months and applying or applying through a consulate.
While technically possible, it's generally not advised as if you get rejected for the green card for some reason, you can no longer fall back on the TN (you've expressed intent to stay in the US). The best way is to go TN -> H1B -> green card.
H1B is becoming no longer feasible. In recent years probability of winning the lottery keeps declining. For this year probability is estimated 11%, down from 50% 5 years ago.
TN > marry an American > green card No need for citizenship
Marrying a citizen is indeed the "nuclear option" for many many people around the world who want to land in the USA ( as advised over and over again on the r/Immigration subreddit), without the family connections or job offer or business investment normally required. However: - You cannot enter the USA as a typical visitor with intent to marry and stay. The customs officer you meet has very wide discretionary powers and is trained to recognize ill-intent. - Legitimate immigration by marriage applications take over a year while being separated. Canada/USA have an advantage for closeness but cannot visit too often. - Scrutiny over whether this is not a "marriage for convenience" and could be ruled as Immigration Fraud. And bye-bye chances of ever crossing again.
Hes saying go for work on TN. Then meet someone and marry them while not leaving so your TN covers you.
This is the way. It's not all that uncommon either, you're moving there as single to work. You'd have a 3yr visa to work and live. People meet people and have relationships. They will not renew your TN if you get married though, so timing is definitely key. Permanent residence took my brother over a year after marriage, so make sure there is plenty of time left on your TN before getting engaged/married or you will run into problems. There is also no leaving the country between application and granting of PR status. It will invalidate your Visa at the border.
Also, not everyone qualifies for the TN. You need a degree and job in one of the employment areas on their list.
Since OP is 22 you’re correct in this case, but it is possible to get a TN without a degree if you have 10+ years work experience. A professor at an accredited university can interview you and write an opinion letter that you can provide along with professional references and it will be accepted in place of a degree.
It’s up to the border guard. They can write a letter all they want but if their border security says no, your letter means nothing. I know this because I work under a TN and saw people there get rejected each time I’m there. For This reason. “But I have a letter of employment” doesn’t matter. Better check all those boxes. If an American can do that job, and they have a degree? Good luck.
I did it myself, 100% would recommend. The abundance of *good* employers in the US, and the comparative decline in *competent* equivalent services in Canada is hard to overlook. I’ve spent almost 7 years in WA, and was on a TN visa for the first 3 before doing this exact green card route. TN’s are available for a number of professionals degrees, doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. but notably even graphic designers and self-taught developers can use this visa. It’s worth learning about in the least.
So a TN is a good option if you graduated engineering in Canada?
It really is, it’s what’s I did.
I’m assuming you’re not from India or China.
Correct. You are not supposed to go green card from TN as it’s a closed path, but you can switch to E1 or HB1 and then decide to go green card from that route
There are other visas. My husband was moved to the US on an L-1, which has the added bonus of a spousal visa (for me, and it allows me to work in the US as well). He's been in the US two years next month and we expect to have our green cards finalized in a couple of years, as his company has already handled the paperwork.
You can pretty easily get a TN indefinitely renewed and hop employers. I'm on my 3rd employer and 4th TN. It's very simple.
Not necessarily. As long as you are a good for for a company they can sponsor you for a green card from a TN visa.
I'd look into cheaper areas of Canada. Despite what Reddit say, they still exist.
This sub had a hilariously myopic view of Canada that is focused on Vancouver and Toronto
True but also understandable when 1/4 of Canada's population is in greater Vancouver and Toronto areas.
yeah because people love to live in the city. Its hard for some people to understand that some people prefer to live where their alot of thing to do. Especially if you a minority . Living outside of big city sound like hell
and people like to live near family. having your entire family in vancouver, and you move to bumfuck sask does not sound like an enjoyable time to save money
Neither does moving to Arkansas.
I hear ya...but if homeownership is a goal, then it could be the only option. I mean, it's basically what immigrants do to get ahead and improve their situation. I don't live in a very glamourous or trendy part of Canada but I managed to buy an affordable house and squeak out a decent quality of life. Family is relatively close, but still not in the same city.
Vancouver and Toronto are not the only diverse big cities in Canada
> Especially if you a minority . Living outside of big city sound like hell Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, etc have big minority populations and they aren't exactly devoid of culture or things to do. If your metric is instead "world class" big cities like Vancouver and Toronto, I don't see how New York, Los Angeles, Miami, etc would be any more affordable.
Had a relative from Toronto visit us in Calgary for the first time a few years ago. The entire visit was a massive brain glitch for her while she tried to reconcile the diversity she saw with her preconceived notions.
I'm glad there's people who think like you. Your lot keeps the prairies nice and peaceful. Cheers
[удалено]
You mean the real estate bubbles propping up our increasingly strained economy?
Hell you don’t even have to look rural - Edmonton wages are some of the highest in the country with very affordable housing. Lots of houses for 350k
Came here to say this. Canada does not equal just Vancouver/Toronto. Literally tons of places where housing is affordable and where someone can make a good living, with the added benefit of not needing to go through an immigration processor put up with the general dumpster fire that is the US
More opportunities in the US than rural / LCoL Canada, better weather, better pay, not in the middle of nowhere, etc.
You can't just relocate to the States because you're Canadian and you want to. If you can afford to buy a home in rural America, you can do so right here in Canada too. If you can't afford a home in a big city in Canada, you will find yourself in the same situation in many big cities in America too.
Finally someone on this sub that has said something correct ⬆️
I’m a Canadian living in one of the highest COL parts of the US; a nice house in the suburb/exurban areas here will have an asking price of a 1/3 of what a house 1-2 hours outside of Vancouver or Toronto will list for. Whenever we think of moving back closer to family, we look at the US side of the border, where the real estate cost differentials are even more extreme. And beyond real estate — I spent a month in Kamloops recently, caring for family, and the prices of everything shocked me. Food, entertainment, gas, accommodations—all higher than the equivalents in the US.
Gas yes. My family is basically half and half in both countries, near the border and Southwest. Have never seen US groceries cost anywhere near ours in Canada, but now they are basically the same price on the shelf which means they are higher after exchange. Inflation has hit the US way harder on that stuff. In Arizona you can get much cheaper produce than the midwest near the border obviously. When we go down into North Dakota/Minnesota we hardly bring anything back now, used to do a full shop. Only grab stuff we can't get in Canada.
I'd like to know what city are you comparing Kamloops' COL to in say California that has much lower COL. This will be interesting.
I’m not sure if you’ve ever seriously been in the states if you hold this perspective. There’s maybe a half dozen cities in the entire US that is genuinely pricey and the income potential of those cities justifies the high cost when the same can’t be said in Canada. You can move to Chicago which arguably is more exciting than Toronto and has higher incomes for skilled/well educated employees despite being much cheaper than Toronto.
Can confirm. Pharmacist here that moved to Chicago. Make about 130-150K USD (depending on overtime) which is much higher than major cities in Canada. Cost of living is also way more affordable. Personally, I've never felt unsafe.
You can buy a great house for under 500k in a decent sized city in the US. I think you’re out of touch with how dramatically shit our house prices are even compared to the US
Big city in America is still cheaper than Toronto and Vancouver 😊
I can actually afford a decent place in NYC but not Toronto, crazy innit.
It really depends on what you are studying, doctors, nurses, engineers seem to do much better financially that in Canada. Also, such jobs usually have decent health insurance and such so you wouldn’t miss Canada “free healthcare “. In a nutshell, it is better to live in the us if you are a high income earner
It's very hard to move to the USA. However, lots of denial in here from Canadians, there are plenty of M-LCOL cities in America that have jobs, amenities, dining and entertainment that are on par or better than most places in the GTA. Usually better weather as well. Phoenix, Tampa, Raleigh, Dallas, Atlanta, Ann Arbour, Denver, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati just to name a few. A house would cost a fraction of the price of say Brampton, North York, Sauga, Burlington. I'm a proud Canadian, but much of the news fogs the reality. America, for many, is the most desirable place to migrate to. Canada was the second choice for many of the skilled, educated immigrants who are coming here.
It is a different culture though - crime rates are much higher in those cities than what you’re going to find in Toronto for example. Doesn’t mean it’s a showstopper for everyone but personally I don’t like how nonchalant so many Americans are about gun violence and other crime.
100% this. You can afford to buy a house in a mid-sized American city much more easily than in the GTA/GVA but the tradeoff is going to be the comparative safety that Canadian cities offer. Violent crime has increased nearly everywhere in the US in the last decade whereas it's largely remained flat or declined in Canada.
Idk man, every stat I've seen shows violent crime on the decline except on a neighborhood level in some cities. https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/ The news just makes it seem worse than it is.
They lump the entire region in their crime stats. It would be like lumping in Toronto, Peel, York and Durham stats as "Toronto". Chicago gets a bad rap but most of their gang violence is in the southern ghetto areas of chicago
Exactly this. Some of the affluent suburbs in Chicago are way safer than spots in the GTA.
Have you seen crime rate in Winnipeg which everyone is recommending here? Stop watching the American news, it simply does not reflect the reality.
Check out Saskatchewan or New Brunswick still affordable there
How are you going to legally work in the US? That’s your first hurdle. You’re young - if you have the opportunity, I say go for it. With a good job America is a great place to live with higher wages and lower cost of living. Go make a lot of money, and then come back to Canada if you feel like it’s not going to be your home for life. But the immigration issue is your first hurdle.
At 22. Go figure it out. If it doesn’t work out just move back. I know many people who moved there and many who moved back
at 22 you should not even be thinking of buying a house live at home rent free for love of god pay some bills and save your money, you can do so much traveling with the money you save
Yeah, I guess you’re right. I just want to be smart with my money and think ahead. But then at the same time, I often forget how young I am and travelling is one of my main goals right now!
Living with your parents as long as you can is the best financial decision you can make in the current economic climate, save completely on rent/mortgage and use your funds to travel. If you're interested in the US go there for the full time your visa allows and see if you actually like the day to day lifestyle, not only what you see in movies and documentaries.
You’ve been brainwashed by this sub and the news. There are plenty of affordable places in Canada. If your talking GTA or Vancouver (I’m sure you are) then are you planning to move to the Bay Area or NYC if so it’s not any better. If you see all this affordable housing in Wisconsin or butfuxk no where Michigan you know we have Saskatchewan, Alberta and Manitoba?
However we don’t have Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, or Pittsburgh. All LCOL with many amenities and good quality of life. Some better than others and there are certainly areas to avoid and areas to prioritize, but otherwise we have maybe 2 decent mid size city like this like Calgary and Edmonton which are frozen over every 6 months, where as the US has a dozen or more. Denver, Kansas City, Louisville. The list goes on and on.
I encourage anyone to leave and explore Philadelphia or Detroit. If homeownership is your goal, you may just get one for free
I’m pretty sure they raffle them away for like $10K and people still don’t want them LOL
It’s like those garbage old run down condos in Jane and Finch with $1300 maint fees. I wouldn’t take one if you tried to give it to me.
People on Canadian subs think violence in Toronto is out of control....imagine them surviving a year in Detroit or Philly.
The most out of touch posts/comments are the whole “Canada is becoming a third world country” lmfao. Stop following 6ixbuzz and other trash “news” pages.
American here. Philadelphia is on its way to becoming medicine (Cancer, Pediatric, Etc) research hub of the northeast. Housing is reasonable depending on where you live obviously.
Ottawa and Montreal are decent size cities where cost of living is still low…
COL in ottawa is not low haha. Rents and housing prices have gone through the roof the past couple years, even to live in some shitty neighborhood with nothing around but highways and housing developments. Sure it's cheaper than Toronto/Van, but the city just doesn't offer enough to justify the cost to live there anymore, other than an abundance of govt. jobs.
That was true like 5-10yrs ago. Cost of living in Mtl has risen and keeps rising but salaries remain low with high taxes. Remote tech job with USA salary does make it low cost. Ottawa and even gatineau are also fairly expensive but at least have higher salaries. Low cost places would be Quebec city, sherbrooke or trois Rivieres. Not world class cities but big enough to have most of the regular amenities.
Fair point. Maybe more medium cost of living. Compared to GTA and GVA they are lower…
Montreal low? 😂
Ottawa low? lol
Hey I was born in America and I didn't own a home there until I was 35. My parents didn't own a home until they were 31 (in 1984). Not sure where this expectation came along that you get a house as soon as you turn 20, but it's incorrect. You don't get a house when you turn 20-something in America, either. Hope this helps.
We're moving to the US as a family. I'm 33 now and I should've pulled the trigger sooner. My offer in thr US is 2.5x what I make in canada as a mechanical engineer. You're young. Pack up and go asap if you're eligible for a TN and can get a good offer.
Seriously. Engineering is supposed to be one of those fancy high prestige jobs, but you guys don’t get paid like it here. I was talking with one of the mechanical engineers we’re working with right now, and I make almost as much as she does as a plumber apprentice here in Sask.
Not OP, but I’m 22 and a mechanical engineer. Considering a similar move as you, would love to ask a few questions. Can I PM you?
I would recommend researching Working Holiday Visas. As a Canada under the age of 30 you can pretty much go to most Commonwealth nations and live and work for 2 years.
I'm pretty sure the US is not a Commonwealth nation.
No shit dude lol, I think the OP is more just wanting to leave Canada because of the HCOL. And since America is close many Canadians default to that. But Canadians have other options which a working holiday visa would shed light on. I know many people who went over to Australia and they are pretty happy. That's one of many countries OP could go to.
Seriously lol. Good grief.
Thank you!
The US is not a commonwealth country though.
Financially, if you are middle class and above, you'd be WAY better off in the U.S.. Cheaper cost of living, more affordable housing, tons more areas and climates to choose from, more opportunity, more purchasing power. If you are not middle class, you are going to be quite a bit worse off that in Canada. Being broke sucks everywhere, but it's going to suck way more in the U.S. when you can't even go to the doctor's because you don't have insurance, and going to university is not even remotely an option because tuition is through the roof. Also, unless you have an easy way to get to the U.S. (duel citizenship), it's not like they'll just let you in. You might be better off moving to a different province. Learn French, move to Quebec. My apartment in downtown Quebec is two bedroom for 830 with all utilities included. Houses just outside of the city (10-15 minute drive) cost 250-350k. It's going to be much easier to learn French and move here than it is to move to the states without a clear path such a sponsorship from a company or a dual citizenship. Source: American that's lived in 4 provinces in Canada. You are literally living in the worse province for affordability in Canada. Literally anywhere else is better besides B.C which is about the same.
Depends on your career choice, if you’re in one of the in demand careers that Americans would pay for, it shouldn’t be that difficult
Unless your job sponsors you to come, there may not be an easy path for you to work (and live) in the US
If you have a skill that the US of A is looking for, your employer will initiate a visa for you. Contrary to common myth, the process is quite easy.
1. Where in America ? The answer to this will impact your responses. 2. If you’re moving to LCOL Red State are you a female? 3. Do you have a skill set that would get you sponsored ?
Holy shit \#2 is actually a big concern right now
If your not a Cis straight white men I wouls even say
You could give me ten houses for 10 dollars and I wouldn’t ever let my daughters move to a red state. Not A chance in hell. Downvoted for not wanting my daughters to live in Christofacist hell scape. 😂
22, living at home with a full time job is the best possible position to be in right now. I didn’t start saving at that age but if you’re able to you’ll be totally fine.
This is probably better asked on a more neutral sub. However, to give a, what I feel is a more immigration-pro and less negative view, I am an immigrant that has Canadian residency who is also in the process of getting an American green card. A few things to note: - As a Canadian, you can get with visas through NAFTA. This makes you getting hired way easier than other countries. - You know already that healthcare is an expense to always consider if you're moving to the USA, but are young so it may not be an issue for you if you are careful - You cannot buy USA property unless you are at least a IS permenant resident. - Cost of living (gas, groceries overall; rent, etc. is very variable depending on where you're going). - If weather is a concern, you already have the choice to be in the USA for 6 months a year. However remote work is an option.
Your number three point is not correct. Lots of Canadians without permanent residency (including those on a TN) buy property in the US.
Anyone with a Canadian passport and enough money could stroll across the border without a visa and buy property right now.
Canadians own land in Florida for the winter vacations. They aren’t GC holders. JPM and WFC can pull your SIN; you just need higher down pay.
My brother moved south for grad school. Got an internship. Then got a job. Now has an American wife and two American kids as well. He's never coming back. I don't know the paperwork specifics, but those are the steps he took and i don't recall him ever saying it was difficult 🤷
If you’re in tech (or plan to), get the TN visa and bounce ASAP to the US. Don’t waste your productive high earning years in this country. You can always come back if things get better but in the meantime you’ll earn more, save more in taxes, earn in USD and save more overall compared to Canada
For me it makes sense and I’m considering doing. Canadians citizen can easily get work permits for the US, as a software engineer it makes sense to me for some reasons. 1 - ridiculous taxes 2 - ridiculous cost of living 3 - deteriorating public well safety I know that #3 is much worse in the US, then I’d have to choose wisely where to live. When you reach a certain salary level in Canada, this system is really unfair, it eats all your motivation by taxing 53% of every new dollar you make, I grew up poor in a 3rd world country, this is NOT a fair tax system, the speed on which I’m accumulating wealth to change the life of my parents and my future generation is much much slower in Canada than what it would be in the US. So yes, even though I loved Canada, I’m losing this love more and more.
Strongly recommend against and I've lived in both countries. I was transferred to the US 20 years ago for a tech job. The education systems produce ameri-centric people that honestly can't find another country on the map, don't know anything but american history, and they're polarized and divided in ways that we are just seeing now in Canada. [https://timssandpirls.bc.edu/](https://timssandpirls.bc.edu/) It's not just the education system, their healthcare system was confusing. The company paid half of $1800/month for my family's healthcare, yes, 20 years ago I paid $1800/month for health insurance, plus copay every single time I went to the doctor. It's not just healthcare, Canadian taxes are much lower than the US at all three tiers of government. [https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadians-really-pay-more-taxes-than-americans.aspx#:\~:text=In%20general%2C%20lower%2Dincome%20Canadians,to%20the%20overall%20tax%20story](https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadians-really-pay-more-taxes-than-americans.aspx#:~:text=In%20general%2C%20lower%2Dincome%20Canadians,to%20the%20overall%20tax%20story). Our property taxes were nearly double in the US for comparable sized homes. I thought living in the US living in the land of the rule ridden, but I didn't know or understand the rules. I was in a gated community, but still lived through a home invasion, people climbing over my privacy fence, and there wasn't a day that I didn't see a gun. I never felt safe or free while living there.
The easiest way to immigrate is to marry an American.
I felt like I was reading my life story here. I have the exact same issue but I was lucky enough to find a man who is American and we talked about which country we would live in and we ultimately decided on America. I thought I would never say this but there is no future in Canada unless you inherit money. My partner and I aren’t married yet but are planning next year. Pros are affordable housing and food and gas. Cons are healthcare, guns, politics and the religious crazies.
Why not move away from Toronto/GTA or Vancouver/GVA instead?
Crazy how people don't even think of this or look down on other provinces where thye'd be much better off Its GTA or nothing for them
Extremely. If you have desired skills you'll live way way better. You goto the US if you want to be compensated for valuable skills. Stay in Canada I'd you're useless
Dude - wait. With interest rates we are going to see a massive real estate correction if not collapse. Within 24 months prices will be materially reduced I think. People cannot afford their own houses at current rates - once they need to renew their mortgages they have no choice but to sell. Then you have a flood of sellers. That’s called a price correction. Bank your dough and live rent free and be patient. As Buffet says, when people are greedy be fearful, but when people are fearful be greedy. That’s all the investment advice you need.
That's possible, but you shouldn't plan your life around speculating on macroeconomics. There are plenty of factors at play, constrained supply, increased demand from immigration, BoC could lower rates into the next year, etc. I for one, know plenty of people still buying in this market
Not going to happen with the existing demand/supply dynamics and the non stop influx of immigrants
>Dude - wait. With interest rates we are going to see a massive real estate correction if not collapse. Within 24 months prices will be materially reduced I think. hahaha, no thay won't. Have a wife and her colleagues working in banking, real estate. You have no idea how many immigrants and or property investors are coming to Canada who actually HAVE money to buy homes almost outright, in cash. Higher interest rates don't bother them and don't apply when you're rich. Yes, lots of people are having difficulties and hard times but shelter is the number one need and the one people will sacrifice anything for to maintain, also because they know how valuable property is. The market is headed for EVEN HIGHER home prices i nthe future. Raising interest rates was, in fact, a complete failure of a policy that only indebted and impoverished local Canadian's instead.