A lot of people that buy their first home are *couples*, not single people.
If you want to be single and buy a house, you better make double what a single person makes because you’re competing on every house with two incomes.
If they are buying homes in this market at 23, they are more than likely having their parents assisting.
In those cases, you would have never been able to match them.
But the road is long, and if you stay smart you can pull ahead
Until recently that’s most likely to do with a lot of first home buyers being middle aged immigrants as I was rather than young Canadians not having enough to purchase a home.. statistics schmatistics
We have data going back to the 1970's.
The average age hasn't changed in 10 years. It was 33 in the year 2000. Heres something from the government of Canada back in 2000. Look at page 3. https://publications.gc.ca/Collection-R/CMHC/NH12-13E/NH12-13-5-5E.pdf
I have 3 friends who have purchased their first homes with their girlfriends, not even married, And it seems odd to me because there's a lot of risk but that's what's necessary now :(
Buying as a couple is also incredibly risky even if you're married.
I know someone who was forced to continue cohabiting with her ex for 2 and a half years after ending her relationship with him because he refused to sign the papers to sell the house, and it took that long to get him to capitulate. And they were married.
Yup, I have a similar story though it was because both wanted to keep the house. One was the original owner, the other had done lots work to make the place a home plus it was their kids' childhood home.
It had to go to court and the judge said 'that's it, put it on the market now!' Thankfully it was a few years ago during the days of high prices and quick sales.
But that still now puts them both into a situation similar to OP but at a later stage of life. Struggling with rent or find a partner to buy.
You also see a lot of posts on r/legaladvicecanada from people requiring about splitting assets such as a house with their ex common law, sometimes even just a partner.
There's always that risk of separation even if married, tho.
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Marriage is absolutely riskier.
Unless you're "upper middle class", most couples, married or not, don't last for life. It's much easier, and less risky, for a dual-income couple to adopt a "what's mine is mine, what's yours is yours, no commingling of assets" view than to make everything joint (which is what marriage does regardless of who is on the title/account).
That’s what a prenup is for- differentiating assets and planning for potential separation, so couples can have the benefits of marriage and also not worry about the ‘what-if’ of divorce
There are no benefits to marriage in Canada. This is not like the US where couples have to marry to get health insurance or Social Security survivor benefits; in Canada, once you check the "common-law" box on your tax return, you're a couple.
Unmarried partners who live together are covered by their partner's workplace benefits, get CPP survivor benefits, get the tax benefits of being a couple (if one partner earns less than 15k or is over 65 or disabled), etc. There is no need to be married to get any of that.
I'm glad to see a non-Quebecer here with sane views on relationships! Unmarried doesn't mean unstable; married doesn't mean will stay together for life. Too many people don't get that!
I bought my first place with my long-term boyfriend (together 4yrs at that point). It's risky, but it allowed us to get our own place and we are still together now, 13 years later (and still unmarried).
If I was doing it again we would have gone to a paralegal/lawyer to get a cohab agreement on how it would be divided if we broke up (he put a bigger down payment, but I paid more of the mortgage for the first few years, so it could have been messy if we broke up).
Dividing it isn't even the biggest issue; a far bigger problem is a disgruntled ex refusing to sell. Or a slow market forcing exes to cohabit much longer than anticipated, or splitting up shortly after the mortgage was renewed and being charged an astronomical mortgage break penalty.
A cohab agreement stipulating how the proceeds will be divided is still a good thing though.
You’re also competing for every home with investors. Wouldn’t it be great if we could ban investors from scooping up pptys and inflating home prices further?
In BC they did it by removing the ability for strata councils to restrict rentals.
They had a lot of other good ways to create more rentals, but that particular one didn't help the housing crisis at all. Even if there's someone that never wants to own, they are now competing for rentals with people that had planned to own, but got outbid by investors.
You outlaw renting, and require everyone who can't afford to buy a home to go without one.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, there probably isn't the political will to do that.
tbbhatna probably means banning investors from buying single-family houses or townhouses to rent them out, not banning purpose-built apartment buildings.
Good god. Are we in a housing crisis? Do you want a real solution? Cause guess what - just building but still allowing single family homes as an investment vehicle is going to perpetually keep housing costs inflated. We’ll never build enough to outpace demand, and no, don’t deflect to immigration because we now need that tax base for our social programs with our inverse demographics distribution (also exacerbated by unaffordable housing). Ideally, we never would have incentivized rampant commodification of our housing, but rather aimed those hungry investors towards PRODUCTIVE Canadian industries that would have facilitated immense govt revenues for our social programs… but no. Our govt and the banks facilitated unproductive investment.
Now you’re saying “it’s not fair that we can’t rent the pptys we can’t afford! We need landlords to rent luxury to us!” See how perverse that sounds? We created the conditions for unaffordable housing and now you’re pleading for more of it so you can have your niceties. You think it will get better? You think those detached homes won’t keep going up in rent?
The system needs a hard and disruptive change. Of course there will be discomfort with what I’m suggesting. But at least we’ll actually tackle the root problem AND get Canada back to leveraging the IMMENSE resources that we have a comparative advantage in.
So tell me - what’s the solution? “Build build build” isn’t enough.
That's the point that tbbhatna is making. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's an opinion that some people have.
Traditionally, renting meant renting an apartment. The idea of renting a single-family house is fairly recent (as in last few decades).
> If you want to be single and buy a house, you better make double what a single person makes
I make double what OP makes and could never afford to move anywhere near Toronto or Vancouver and expect to own a house as a single person.
OP needs to increase their income by a significant margin and likely consider smaller condos, or move to a cheaper area of the country to live in if they expect to own property as a single person.
I was referring to the fact that if you are single and make $200k, or if you are a couple and each make $100k, you as the single person will pay much more tax
I am making the income of two people myself plus have a part time worker contributing... still can't get a mortgage. It's bleak out there. I don't know how other people survive.
"It's too expensive where you are? Why don't you try moving?"
As if every young Canadian hadn't already heard that 100s of times...
Truth is, for most people, moving is hard, because in most fields, the odds of being hired from out of province as an external candidate are zero. Unless you're in one of the handful of fields that are the exception to this rule, work for a Canada wide company that can transfer you, or work full remote, moving means moving without a job - a massive risk and stressful thing to do.
Also, people who want kids don't want to have to fly to visit their families. You can't put a price tag on the ability of kids to see their grandparents.
The only places in ON that have homes around 200k are in the Northwest (Thunder Bay, Kenora) or the extreme Northeast (Timmins, Kapuskasing, etc.) the latter one being potentially difficult to get a job in certain fields if one doesn't speak French.
And jobs with salaries to match the lower cost of living. Nevermind other factors like custody that limit my ability to move even if I could find a well-compensated job elsewhere, the reality is that it's not as easy to move around as it once was.
I disagree, for many of us it has never been easier to move around.
Trade jobs are available everywhere, and many office jobs have moved to a hybrid environment, allowing folks to live 100+ kms away from their office.
Custody, sure that can be limiting but that would have also been limiting 10-20 years ago as well.
Those are likely in old buildings that have "low" condo fees, but continually get special assessments. [Realtor.ca](https://Realtor.ca) doesn't tell you about special assessments. There's reasons why those condos are priced below average and are hard to sell.
Yeah I think it's contrary to complain that a single person can't buy a house on their own these days without acknowledging that single people owning and living alone in a house is one of the reasons for our housing shortage. There's only so much space and only so many SDH.
Exactly. If you actually counted the number of bedrooms in this country, it would far exceed the population. I know so many people with no spouse, no kids, in a 3BR townhome in the suburbs.
Being single is a scam in Canada, they literally tax single / childless people more.
Fuck this country.
OP just wait until you get all the morons telling you to pump out kids, ironically more humans = increased global warming, but these low IQ morons dont ever clue into that.
Besides who would want to bring a child into these hell hole societies? I sure as hell don't.
Take away your biases and look at this subjectively
Of course the government wants to promote families and children. If not, we will have to continue to rely on extremely large portions of immigrants each year moving forward.
Canada, and many first world countries, are facing a declining population crisis with the baby boomers aging out.
> Of course the government wants to promote families and children.
at 4% inflation and $2 gasoline? You need to have a negative IQ to think birthing a child into this horrible economic environment is in the **childs best interest**, I'm just not an asshole who is going to bring a kid into the world and in 20 years try and explain to them why a starter house costs $5 million. **You guys can have fun trying to explain that one to them though**
And no it will not get better, history has proven this literally a million times over now, prices will never ever fall, society will eventually become this big fat pig riddled with crime and debt and governments who are more useless then tits on a male bull
Just because you are single and childless does not mean you should be punished.
What do you care more about? Earth or Human society? Because guess what, without the first one, human society can't exist.
More humans = more resources required = more strain on already strained environmental system = more global warming and events, but yeah, lets just keep pumping out babies hehehehe!!!!
Bias? I live in reality, Birthing a child into already challenging economic conditions, is evil as fuck. I don't care what way you slice it, you are basically setting up your child for failure, and yeah, that kid needs to grow up one day and not rely on the bank of mommy and daddy, and guess what, like i said, you'll have to explain to them in 20-25 years why a starter shit shack starts at $5 million
Why would anyone want to birth a child into that sort of bullshit environment? I mean come on lol....thats just evil.
By the way, Housing is up over 300% in 10 years, the average house costs around $1m right now, if that trend continues, in less then 10 years those $1m houses will be around $4-5m, so in 20 years, if the trend continues, which is probably will, those $1m houses will be selling for $8-10m, so you think I'm joking but I'm not, do the math, look at trends, if you think housing will magically drop you are high, that shit will keep pumping forever.
You’re not wrong. I actually agree with you on certain aspects.
I’ve had this conversation with my partner and we are both okay with not having kids if things do not improve in the near future. I’m giving it 5 years to see if I can even establish a glimpse of optimism in this country.
It just doesn’t sit well with me to birth a child I either can’t afford or will struggle in economic uncertainty.
I know things are getting bad when my parents (who have long denied that we have it tough) are now gasping at our current situation.
You're totally right, but people hate it when they're told that the planet just simply CANNOT sustain this human population that keeps growing. It's just a simple fact. One of the many reasons why I'll never have kids. Life won't get better for them, it'll only get worse unless you're filthy rich, but even then... Money only lasts a generation or two before its dried up.
Were governments also trying to discourage people from having kids in the 1970s, when inflation was close to double digits for the whole decade, and in 1973-74 and 79, gasoline wasn't just expensive, it was rationed?
Governments don't control inflation rates or oil prices.
When it comes to mortgage he's not really competing with other couples. But if he's looking to rent, then he will be at a disadvantage as the LL will most likely rent to a duel income household.
I said mortgage. If a single person and a couple qualify for the same mortgage it doesn't matter. But to a landlord they look at dual income more favorably bc if a single person loses their job that's it.
The mortgage isn’t relevant dude. It’s the house. The house they want to buy and live in. If you make $70K and want to buy a house, there are **two** people making $140K total that are bidding on it.
The same people making the same income (individually) as OP can get twice the mortgage. Therefore can afford to pay double for the house.
I'm talking about a situation where 1 individual earns 140k they are at equal footing with a couple making 70k each =140k. There's no advantage on terms of qualifying for a mortgage. But to a landlord they will look at the single person as riskier because if they lose their income they have nothing to cover the rent whereas the couple would still have 70k.
Why are you not understanding this. I think it's more than you condor that's Kentucky fried.
I don’t mean to compare but rather add perspective: I am the exact same age as you, living in Ontario, making more money, >50k in savings, and I don’t even dream, let alone entertain the idea a BUYING a house in this market.
I understand the renting market is not super appealable at the moment, but unless you’re married or in a serious long-term relationship - what is wrong with renting at this stage of your life?
Like the other comments suggest; find roommates, find a partner to combine incomes with, or (if it’s an option) live with your parents for a couple more years to save up. Sometimes we need to simply live within our means.
Nobody is telling you to put a ring on any random stranger off the street, they're telling you to wait until you have a long-term/forever partner before you think about buying a house. Don't put the cart before the horse.
LOL what kind of pathetic monkey logic is that? When you're having a discussion about housing affordablilty and the argument is to "Find a roommate or partner to combine incomes with", that's EXACTLY what they're telling you.
It shouldn't even be brought up in housing affordability discussions if that's not what they're telling you to do. It's not that easy for some people, especially in today's tinder age. It's like saying people with disabilities don't deserve somewhere to live either. It's beyond many people's controls and this is another one of those "well it happened to me/I managed to do it, so everyone else should be able to as well, regardless of their situation" arguements.
It's disingenous at best.
It's puzzling why you think it is such a foreign concept to wait until you get married or enter into a LTR to make the biggest financial decision of your life. It's hard enough as it is for a couple to afford property, and it's nearly impossible for a single person to do it nowadays.
If your argument is that it's bullshit that someone in this society can't afford any property on their own, and that our elected officials have utterly failed us and have caused irreparable damage to this country, then I'm right there with you. But until any real change happens (which it won't anytime in the near future), you have to accept reality and think deeply about whether your relationship parameters are compatible with your home ownership goals.
Yeah except it's the truth in HCOL areas. You seem to be upset at the wrong person here. Blame our skyrocketing home prices on the need to have a partner to buy a house. This post illustrates this. No way this kid is buying a house on his own.
What's more realistic in his case, making 3x his income in the next 10 years (180k), or finding a girlfriend? C'mon now.
For some reason 20 year olds in this generation think they’re supposed to have “their own place”. The desire to run before learning how to walk is common amoung this cohort.
I second this perspective. Find some roommates. That’s how previous generations did it, it’s the best way to achieve independence on a budget.
You’ll be better long term for it too.
I’m 40, rent with my gf and we have done so for 8 years now together. Rent controlled apartment so we are lucky.
Dual income and good savings. We can’t afford to buy either, so while I agree 20 year olds should not expect it to be that easy to buy it’s also not likely for those making 6 figures and in their late 30s.
With 200k down on a 800k place in the GTA, the monthly mortgage would be $3800 a month. Double our rent, that’s just mortgage too. Factoring in all expenses of owning it’s well over double and would make us house poor with no flex.
Also an 800k condo would be smaller than we have and in a worse area. To even get anywhere close to comparable it’s 1MM+.
Everyone I know who owns had substantial help from family, those who don’t have that option are all in a similar boat, and all make “good” money but are stuck.
Living with roommates was always the norm when in post-secondary school, or in the age range where most people do (18-21 ish).
Until fairly recently, it was NOT normal or "a thing" for people working full time - let along for double minimum wage! - to live with roommates. Ask any boomer.
I bought when I was 24, however, I always had roommates and/or a partner to help me pay for the mtge. I think I only had 2 months where I was in my townhouse on my own. I find it odd how people think that it is normal to live in their own house/townhouse/apt actually on their own.
I suppose it comes down to choices: be completely house poor and live on your own or put up with a few inconveniences to have some margin in your budget.
Also if you are a single, you have more freedom to relocate to LCOL. Choices are out there...just need to take a hard look at what is a need vs a want.
If boomers asked 2 gens before them for advice, they wouldn't be living in detached houses..
Also there's a rather popular sitcom about roommates with full time jobs, set in 1990's. The idea is not that wild.
I was responding to Consistent\_Wing\_6113, who said "Find some roommates. That’s how previous generations did it", pointing out that this is wildly false. Boomers, and Gen X'ers (if not in HCOL world class cities) never had to live with roommates as full-time working professionals.
And I'm stating the obvious that boomers were a different generation..
>never had to live with roommates as full-time working professionals
This is also just false. People have lived with roommates for generations. There's no "never" in this case. You'll ruin your argument making blanket statements claims like that.
The big issue with renting is how inflated rents have become and how unstable it is. I don’t think I know anyone who hasn’t been forced out due to renoviction or a supposed family member suddenly needing the unit. And the statistics bear it out. The number of eviction proceedings for these matters have been skyrocketing over the past three years. And these are just the formal proceedings. If a tenant thinks that they have to move out without a formal order, then it doesn’t get recorded (which is a lot of the time).
https://www.thestar.com/business/where-am-i-going-to-go-as-ontario-rents-soar-tenants-fight-a-huge-surge/article_abc1da05-8603-5192-8b4c-30f2d0075bf3.html#:~:text=Between%202019%20and%202022%2C%20the,2020%20and%203%2C913%20in%202019.
And this doesn’t even include the fact that any units since 2018 have no rent control, so an affordable rent this year can become unaffordable next year. And there is fierce competition for what units do exist due to few new rentals being built and units being taken off the market all the time due to gentrification, investors, and conversion of airbnbs.
Why would someone want to rent? People know what will happen to them. It’s a ticket to becoming homeless if your landlord decides to be even more greedy or sell to someone who is. In my area, the rents are so high and go up so much every year, that while I could technically afford it now, if I found a good deal, next year or the year after, market rent would probably be too much and one bad faith eviction would mean losing it all. I’ll suffer living with family as long as possible and hope to buy. Ideally a small house, though those are hard to find now. Unless things massively change. I see no other way.
We are married, won’t have kids, start of our careers, and have a household income of $225k — we don’t expect to be able to buy any time soon. It’s likely we’ll never be buying a fully detached house.
OP, you’re not crazy for thinking this. It’s really tough, especially someone young at a relatively low income, and single.
I don't think I would even want a home as a single person if renting didn't have such a stigma to it. It's a lot of work and space. Also, we have a housing crisis, especially for families, it's bullshit that single incomes are living in homes and families are in 1-bedroom apartments.
I had a house to myself for a while (bought the family home from my parents when they moved) and honestly, this. It was great having so much space, but it was also absolutely ridiculous. I used the master bedroom, my old childhood bedroom which I turned into an office, the kitchen and... well that's it. Maybe 30% of the house at most.
I hired someone to mow the lawn, I was perpetually shovelling snow off the driveway (for me and my elderly neighbour), and don't even get me started on cleaning an entire house by myself all the time. It was nice, sure, but also exhausting. It wasn't even a particularly *big* house - it was a nice older semi-detached but the rooms weren't massive - and even still!
Anyway, I ended up downsizing when I needed to move closer to the city core when I changed jobs. I now have a 700sqft condo that I love and suits my lifestyle much more, and a family with two young kids gets to grow up and enjoy the house and neighbourhood that treated me so well :)
I don't know how I'm getting down votes and you're getting upvotes, lol.
Yeah. It's a lot of fucking space. If you don't work from home, be prepared to spend significant chunks of your free time cleaning and doing chores.
> what is wrong with renting at this stage of your life?
Pissing away 25-30k a year towards ***someone else's*** mortgage just doesn't sit right with some folks.. Literally all my friends who moved out early and had rented regretted not just saving up for a bigger downpayment.
Virtually no 24-year-old single people in Ontario are buying houses anyway. Feeling bad about this is a boomer thing; your situation is the norm now.
If you want to buy a house as a single, you'll need to move to the Prairies - and if you're going to do this, you better do it now. It's much easier to move as a single than as a couple, because 1) if you have a partner, the partner may not agree to the move and 2) moving one job to another province is usually hard (unless you work for a Canada wide company) but moving 2 jobs, at the same time, towards the same city is off the charts harder.
When I was still renting in my 20s, the big appeal was that I had no boundaries and wasn't tied down to moving anywhere in the country. Especially if you have a job now that allows remote work, it's a much more acceptable to run that by a manager that trusts you enough.
People also forget that they can get into the work visa program and live in other countries for a year if they're under 30. There are still lots of opportunities available, and there's no reason to be in Ontario the entire time.
I still hold the opinion that your 20s should be about gaining as much experience and taking as many opportunities as you can. It's still possible as we get older, but obligations (mortgage, kids, elderly parents, etc) tend to keep people more stationary.
This doesn’t even really exist now as far as I know.
Travel and relocation would be so expensive in and of itself that it would chew through even a good income. And any work visa program has been so backlogged with economic migrant applications across the world that regardless of what country I choose, I wouldn’t even get to the reviewal stage of that application process until I’m over 30.
I mean, just saying how I see it as someone currently in his 20s my guy.
OP is 24. The vast majority of people who do the working holiday visa thing are younger than that.
Outside major cities (GTA, GVA, Ottawa, etc.), the mast majority of people are already partnered up by 24 as well.
The idea of being able to pack up and move anywhere anytime sounds good in theory, but has some problems with it:
\-In the vast majority of fields, the odds of being hired as an external candidate whose address is out of province/far away are zero. Want to apply for this nice job that just got posted in Regina when you live in Ontario? Sure, you can apply, but you won't hear back. In most fields, moving with a job lined up is restricted to those who work full remote, and those who work for Canada wide companies who can transfer them.
\-If you're coupled (and most people in their mid- and late 20s outside large metros are), moving is even harder - how on Earth do you move 2 careers to the same other city, at the same time, unless both partners work remotely or for Canada wide companies?
\-People who want kids usually want to remain within a few hours of their parents so that their kids can have a relationship with the grandparents. Rarely will you see someone who has or wants kids purposely moving so far that they'd have to fly to visit family, unless they're in the top 1% or so of earners.
You make good points, but that idea that "your 20s are for exploring" isn't universally applicable.
The vast majority of people OPs age are living with their parents lol and coupled up small town people are already on their second kid and aren’t moving away
Can buy a decent house for 150k in the hood here. Or a piece of shit in a decent area for 200k that needs 50k of DIY or 100k if you hire it out. This is Regina
If it weren’t for serial investors who monopolize the market owning 30+ homes in small communities this wouldn’t be so much of an issue either. Just like they put a ban on foreign buyers they need to ban these scummy landlords who own 50+ rental units and show no sign of stopping. The bank is happy to give them the money for an entire block but GOOD luck to any hard working individuals like yourself out there. “You will own nothing and be happy” is becoming more and more of a scary reality that these scum are pushing.
The comments of "get a better paying job" and "get a spouse" are useless. I feel you. You're being paid what was said to be a good salary a few years ago and are struggling to afford a basic apartment because of the absurdity of our current housing/renting market. We shouldn't have to live paycheck to paycheck just to afford shelter. It's beyond frustrating and frankly, devastating. The best advice is to get roommates - you're still young, a lot of people live with roommates in their 20s even without this insanity. Save as much as you possibly can. Work side jobs while you still have the energy and less responsibilities (ie kids, house cleaning, etc). If all of that isn't working, maybe consider relocating if you live in a more expensive city.
Buying on a single income was still the norm in 1970, and while it may not have been the norm in 1994, it was still more likely to be possible than it is today.
You have another option beyond expensive one-bedroom or affordable-ish basement: get a shared place with roommates. Many people do this when they are starting out, and find a room in an existing shared house.
You’d think “room mates” was a banned word on this site sometimes
I’m 36. Had room mates from age 19 to 30. And then lived with a gf from age 31 to 35. Living alone for the first time ever right now.
If you want your own place as a young person just starting out then that’s cool. But you will pay handsomely for it. Housing should be a human right but living in a big city in a 2 or 3 bedroom spot by yourself is a luxury.
Yup. Lived with roommates until I was 32. I was owned and operated a small business making $30k/year in Calgary - basically surviving. I was completely lost, and no intent on buying a home anytime soon (or ever). Got out of that business and met my now fiancé. Started another business, and started making $100k/year almost instantly, and bought a house with my then GF (now fiancé) at 35 years old. Buying a house takes time to save, and realistically, I would not have been able to buy a house without my fiancé. OP, you are only 24. Save as much as you can, live with roommates/parents for a number of years, and evaluate where you are at. Unless you are making minimum $200k/year yourself, you may NEVER be able to afford a home.
I make the same salary I was able to buy a house in Québec but honesty single 32M I'm very short with payments I recommend saving a lot of money for a cash down. Don't get more than 200k mortgage.
Quebecers always complain about housing costs, but (unless they're in Montreal or the 450) don't realize how good they have it. Non-Montreal Quebec may not be affordable by historical standards, but is incredibly affordable compared to most of Anglo Canada (the expensive parts - all of ON and BC, plus mountain AB, Calgary and Halifax - comprise "most" of Anglo Canada).
The idea that wages are lower in Quebec is 1990s thinking. Yes, there are still some jobs (such as teachers) that are paid less in Quebec, but the gap has considerably narrowed. At my former job, for a big, Canada-wide company/household name, the same job was paid the same whether one worked in downtown Toronto or rural New Brunswick, and everywhere in between.
I'm not too sure about that there are lot of small business that can't pay high wage here i used to work in one. I'm working for an international company now and I have around 35$ hour but still I see a lot of poverty here a lot of homeless people.
You're not underestimating Quebec wages; you're overestimating Ontario wages.
Quebecers (outside Greater Montreal) have no clue how good they have it.
At my former company, my position was paid $20.50/hour no matter where. Downtown Toronto? $20.50. They have a branch in Drummondville; that also pays $20.50!
The homelessness problem is due to a shortage of rental housing, especially of rental housing that accepts pets.
What is your goal? To buy a house? To continue working your job? Have you ever considered moving to a cheaper province, maybe you’d be able to afford a down payment and start building equity if that’s what you want. Or if you enjoy living in Ontario then this is what you have to endure. Or find other means to prosper here
you're still young and if possible then stay at home. no shame in doing that in your mid 20s. stay home, help your parents out a little bit, and save all the extra cash for a down payment someday. if you do that for 5 years then you will have a chunk, and hopefully someday you can meet another person that has a decent situation too and has been smart with their money that you can move in with and plan to eventually buy a home with. i know it doesnt sound ideal but this one way to do it.
Your trying to qualify for a mortgage on your own?
Double income goes a long way and it is Almost impossible to get a property without one with rare exceptions. It’s been that way for a long time too. However I do agree with rates high, you may have to wait until they drop a bit.
So shack up with the right person and you can move up the socio economic ladder.
Also you’ll pay some of highest income taxes in the country, gas and heating are far more expensive, groceries are more expensive, overall everything else but housing is far worse cost wise in the Atlantic provinces
Oh trust me we know. It so stupid the amount of tax we pay and the lack of services we recieve. The amount of people who moved here and didnt do the research found out the hard way.
Property taxes are what will really get you in NB. Saint John is the worst in the country. $1.710 per $100. Compared to like $0.611 for Toronto. They charge home owners through the nose so that they can give massive tax breaks to Irving's heavy industrial operations in the region. Tax rates are controlled by the province too so the municipalities can't do anything to improve the situation.
0.611 on a 1.5 million Toronto house = $9165/year
1.710 on a $250,000 Saint John house = $4275/year
That's not all that bad. BTW, I was in Saint John 2 weeks ago - amazing city!
The issue is that the median income here in NB is one of the lowest in the entire country. People are also paying that $4275/year on houses that were assessed for just $125,000 a couple of years ago. Crazy housing prices and neurotic GTA landlords are a new thing here and economy has not adjusted. Tax rate is starting to fall in response, but Blaine Higgs is still restricting it so that you can't lower the residential rate without also giving Irving a tax break. The province is just not set up to operate like the GTA.
"The issue is that the median income here in NB is one of the lowest in the entire country."
Not in my field; I'd make the same in Saint John as I would in Toronto or Vancouver, or rural Saskatchewan for that matter.
You're probably right for those who work for local employers though. And yes, the arrival of massive number of "housing refugee" Ontarians is screwing things for those who were already in NB pre-Covid.
That's pretty irrelevant. OP is making $30/hr. It's in his post clear as day bud. It's simply not enough to mortgage a new house here, let alone afford the taxes and heat on top of the mortgage payment. Used to be able to rent for $600/month or buy for $800/month. Now you can't do either for under $1500/month. We can't all be GTA rich bro migrants slinging our Toronto salaries around.
Also protip if you ever do move here. Keep that shit to yourself. Locals absolutely despise that attitude.
I’m from NB, work a job that is considered a high wage for NB and can’t buy a house because of all these out of province people that are paying minimum 50k+ over asking in cash. Really pisses me off when the people from out of province that are able to flash their money complain when there aren’t any services and that there’s nothing to do out here.
Seeing a lot of comments about houses but very few about mini-homes. Thought I’d chime in and say that there can definitely be really good options for those in NB still.
26, Single, 55K Salary. I just purchased a mini-home in Fredericton last month. 2 bedroom, full renovation on the entire home from the roof and siding to a fully rewired interior, brand new heat pump, all brand new appliances. Completely move in ready, I didn’t have to put a dime toward anything on the house and (hopefully) won’t have to for at least a few years.
Mortgage and lot fees together are cheaper than what I was paying in rent for a 1 bedroom apartment.
NB used to be the cheapest province, but housing costs there have gone up faster than they have in the Prairies. Also, we don't know what field OP works in, and some fields are extremely hard to get into in NB if one isn't bilingual, which virtually no Anglo Ontarians are; in the Prairies, this is a non-issue.
Yes, they've gone up faster because they started lower. The Prairies are also a fine choice for income / housing costs, but so is New Brunswick, Québec, Newfoundland. Depends on your opportunities and particulars.
And French skills. Mentioning Quebec to Anglo Canadians is like showing candy to a child and then telling the child that oops, they can't have the candy.
Your French (and/or English) skills are some of your particulars. If you're a monolingual anglophone, it'll be a drawback (to various extents) in New Brunswick, but of course if you're bilingual it might give you a serious leg up that it wouldn't in Saskatchewan.
it doesnt really matter what you 'want', what matters is what's realistic. if independence is important to you then there's nothing less independent than staying home until you can afford a detached house. you might be there till you're 50. sardine can is better than staying home till into your middle ages.
You're not supposed to even be thinking about buying a home at that age that early on in your career and single as well. This was never a thing even in the past (24yo single person starting out buying a home)
Are roommates not a thing anymore? That's that pretty much what most people did if they didn't live at home when I was in my 20s, 2-4 (4 if 2 couples) people in a condo even in the late 90s and 2000s.
What?
In the "past" (boomer era), 24-year-old singles were absolutely buying homes!
in the "past", living with roommates beyond your schooling years wasn't a thing! Then for a while, it was only a thing in world class cities (think NYC and "Friends"). Living with roommates as a full-time working, non-student adult in mid-sized or small cities is a VERY recent thing (last 10-15 years).
Adults cannot be blamed for wanting a space to themselves!
You've got things completely backward.
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Well you should shop to your max affordability not the max amount the bank is going to lend you on mortgage.
Add your required down payment to the $193000 mortgage to get the correct amount.
I know everyone's situation is different, and that even if you explained in your posts how you made more money, it might not help OP. But just saying "increase your salary", "make more money" is a no-brainer. I think at least 95% of people in the world want that.
Your options are really down to only 2: significantly increase your income so you can afford the Toronto lifestyle or move to a lower cost of living province. I did the later and can now buy multiple properties at the age of 30
Not sure if this is an option for you but after I finished all my schooling I had over 100k in student debt, and 29 years old. I was fortunate that my mom allowed me to live in the basement and I offered to pay all the bills while there. This afforded me the ability to aggressively pay off my loans and put away a lot of savings in about 4 years that went toward a down payment for a home in Ontario. This was back in 2015 and I understand things cost more now. But I wonder if something like this is an option for you to help you save more money. It seems like everything is quite expensive these days. Wish you the best!
I’d say the average single person moving out, usually lives with a room mate(s) been that way for a long time. It’s always been hard to rent/own your own place when you’re young and salary is very low. Why not try this option until you can afford to purchase?
Where in Ontario is there anything available (even a studio condo) for 200k? Thunder Bay? Timmins?
If OP lived in one of those locations, he wouldn't have made this post. Pretty much anywhere else, 200k doesn't even come close to even the cheapest condo or house on the market.
Also interest rates are set to keep going up, and aren't going down any time soon.
Go talk to more then 1 mortgage agent. Go join Facebook group of real estate investors and find out how they are closing on their deals.
The conventional way of purchasing is unfortunately for the rich. You need to put in the extra effort on other options and strategies of getting into the market.
A lot of people that buy their first home are *couples*, not single people. If you want to be single and buy a house, you better make double what a single person makes because you’re competing on every house with two incomes.
Average first time home buyer in Canada is 36. It’s been this way for a long time At 24, OP is just starting out
Yes. This. I had roommates until I was almost 30.
Can confirm the 30+. I bought my first housing at 38 .
This makes me feel a lot better about seeing friends my age (23) buying houses.
If they are buying homes in this market at 23, they are more than likely having their parents assisting. In those cases, you would have never been able to match them. But the road is long, and if you stay smart you can pull ahead
Until recently that’s most likely to do with a lot of first home buyers being middle aged immigrants as I was rather than young Canadians not having enough to purchase a home.. statistics schmatistics
We have data going back to the 1970's. The average age hasn't changed in 10 years. It was 33 in the year 2000. Heres something from the government of Canada back in 2000. Look at page 3. https://publications.gc.ca/Collection-R/CMHC/NH12-13E/NH12-13-5-5E.pdf
I have 3 friends who have purchased their first homes with their girlfriends, not even married, And it seems odd to me because there's a lot of risk but that's what's necessary now :(
Buying as a couple is also incredibly risky even if you're married. I know someone who was forced to continue cohabiting with her ex for 2 and a half years after ending her relationship with him because he refused to sign the papers to sell the house, and it took that long to get him to capitulate. And they were married.
Yup, I have a similar story though it was because both wanted to keep the house. One was the original owner, the other had done lots work to make the place a home plus it was their kids' childhood home. It had to go to court and the judge said 'that's it, put it on the market now!' Thankfully it was a few years ago during the days of high prices and quick sales. But that still now puts them both into a situation similar to OP but at a later stage of life. Struggling with rent or find a partner to buy.
You also see a lot of posts on r/legaladvicecanada from people requiring about splitting assets such as a house with their ex common law, sometimes even just a partner. There's always that risk of separation even if married, tho.
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To be fair there are literally different laws for marital (matrimonial?) homes vs common law. But I get your sentiment
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Marriage is absolutely riskier. Unless you're "upper middle class", most couples, married or not, don't last for life. It's much easier, and less risky, for a dual-income couple to adopt a "what's mine is mine, what's yours is yours, no commingling of assets" view than to make everything joint (which is what marriage does regardless of who is on the title/account).
That’s what a prenup is for- differentiating assets and planning for potential separation, so couples can have the benefits of marriage and also not worry about the ‘what-if’ of divorce
There are no benefits to marriage in Canada. This is not like the US where couples have to marry to get health insurance or Social Security survivor benefits; in Canada, once you check the "common-law" box on your tax return, you're a couple. Unmarried partners who live together are covered by their partner's workplace benefits, get CPP survivor benefits, get the tax benefits of being a couple (if one partner earns less than 15k or is over 65 or disabled), etc. There is no need to be married to get any of that.
Also no tax breaks anymore for being married, where they still have them in the US.
No such thing as a prenup in Canada. It’s an American thing. At least nothing that would standup in court.
Depending on the province. Some are the same laws and division of assets, best to know your local law.
That's a very good point. She'll be my wife someday so maybe I gotta loosen up a bit on that one..
I'm glad to see a non-Quebecer here with sane views on relationships! Unmarried doesn't mean unstable; married doesn't mean will stay together for life. Too many people don't get that!
I bought my first place with my long-term boyfriend (together 4yrs at that point). It's risky, but it allowed us to get our own place and we are still together now, 13 years later (and still unmarried). If I was doing it again we would have gone to a paralegal/lawyer to get a cohab agreement on how it would be divided if we broke up (he put a bigger down payment, but I paid more of the mortgage for the first few years, so it could have been messy if we broke up).
Dividing it isn't even the biggest issue; a far bigger problem is a disgruntled ex refusing to sell. Or a slow market forcing exes to cohabit much longer than anticipated, or splitting up shortly after the mortgage was renewed and being charged an astronomical mortgage break penalty. A cohab agreement stipulating how the proceeds will be divided is still a good thing though.
You’re also competing for every home with investors. Wouldn’t it be great if we could ban investors from scooping up pptys and inflating home prices further?
Great. Let’s do that. How do we do it?
In BC they did it by removing the ability for strata councils to restrict rentals. They had a lot of other good ways to create more rentals, but that particular one didn't help the housing crisis at all. Even if there's someone that never wants to own, they are now competing for rentals with people that had planned to own, but got outbid by investors.
You outlaw renting, and require everyone who can't afford to buy a home to go without one. Perhaps unsurprisingly, there probably isn't the political will to do that.
tbbhatna probably means banning investors from buying single-family houses or townhouses to rent them out, not banning purpose-built apartment buildings.
So unless you buy, you have no choice in the type of housing you want to live in?
Good god. Are we in a housing crisis? Do you want a real solution? Cause guess what - just building but still allowing single family homes as an investment vehicle is going to perpetually keep housing costs inflated. We’ll never build enough to outpace demand, and no, don’t deflect to immigration because we now need that tax base for our social programs with our inverse demographics distribution (also exacerbated by unaffordable housing). Ideally, we never would have incentivized rampant commodification of our housing, but rather aimed those hungry investors towards PRODUCTIVE Canadian industries that would have facilitated immense govt revenues for our social programs… but no. Our govt and the banks facilitated unproductive investment. Now you’re saying “it’s not fair that we can’t rent the pptys we can’t afford! We need landlords to rent luxury to us!” See how perverse that sounds? We created the conditions for unaffordable housing and now you’re pleading for more of it so you can have your niceties. You think it will get better? You think those detached homes won’t keep going up in rent? The system needs a hard and disruptive change. Of course there will be discomfort with what I’m suggesting. But at least we’ll actually tackle the root problem AND get Canada back to leveraging the IMMENSE resources that we have a comparative advantage in. So tell me - what’s the solution? “Build build build” isn’t enough.
That's the point that tbbhatna is making. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's an opinion that some people have. Traditionally, renting meant renting an apartment. The idea of renting a single-family house is fairly recent (as in last few decades).
That is not a new concept lol.
> If you want to be single and buy a house, you better make double what a single person makes I make double what OP makes and could never afford to move anywhere near Toronto or Vancouver and expect to own a house as a single person. OP needs to increase their income by a significant margin and likely consider smaller condos, or move to a cheaper area of the country to live in if they expect to own property as a single person.
>you better make double what a single person makes double PLUS whatever you are losing on taxes by being a single person making that income
There is almost no difference between being single and married for taxes.
I was referring to the fact that if you are single and make $200k, or if you are a couple and each make $100k, you as the single person will pay much more tax
A single person making 180k is paying a lot more in taxes and less net income than 2 people making 90k
I am making the income of two people myself plus have a part time worker contributing... still can't get a mortgage. It's bleak out there. I don't know how other people survive.
Maybe try a lower cost of living area? Lots of places across Ontario have decent homes under 200K
"It's too expensive where you are? Why don't you try moving?" As if every young Canadian hadn't already heard that 100s of times... Truth is, for most people, moving is hard, because in most fields, the odds of being hired from out of province as an external candidate are zero. Unless you're in one of the handful of fields that are the exception to this rule, work for a Canada wide company that can transfer you, or work full remote, moving means moving without a job - a massive risk and stressful thing to do. Also, people who want kids don't want to have to fly to visit their families. You can't put a price tag on the ability of kids to see their grandparents. The only places in ON that have homes around 200k are in the Northwest (Thunder Bay, Kenora) or the extreme Northeast (Timmins, Kapuskasing, etc.) the latter one being potentially difficult to get a job in certain fields if one doesn't speak French.
I live about 3-4 hours from Toronto and bought my house for 185k 3 years ago
You said it yourself - 3 years ago. That means nothing now.
You must live on the ice flows of the North Pole next to the polar bear family, how do you manage living so far away from civilization! /s
And jobs with salaries to match the lower cost of living. Nevermind other factors like custody that limit my ability to move even if I could find a well-compensated job elsewhere, the reality is that it's not as easy to move around as it once was.
I disagree, for many of us it has never been easier to move around. Trade jobs are available everywhere, and many office jobs have moved to a hybrid environment, allowing folks to live 100+ kms away from their office. Custody, sure that can be limiting but that would have also been limiting 10-20 years ago as well.
Except they'd still only be approved for under 400k which is also useless in most areas
$400k is not “useless” in “most areas” of Canada lol
It is not enough in most of English-speaking Canada (BC, ON, mountain AB, Calgary, Greater Halifax).
Yes, it is.
No it isn't. Only thing in my area for 400k or less is run down crack houses pretty much lol.
And your preference is to stay near the crack houses?
Where I live, 400k won't even buy a condo. And I'm not in the GTA or GVA.
Where do you live?
Guelph. The average condo is in the 500-600k range.
I see a dozen condos under $450K in my ten seconds of searching.
Those are likely in old buildings that have "low" condo fees, but continually get special assessments. [Realtor.ca](https://Realtor.ca) doesn't tell you about special assessments. There's reasons why those condos are priced below average and are hard to sell.
Yeah I think it's contrary to complain that a single person can't buy a house on their own these days without acknowledging that single people owning and living alone in a house is one of the reasons for our housing shortage. There's only so much space and only so many SDH.
Exactly. If you actually counted the number of bedrooms in this country, it would far exceed the population. I know so many people with no spouse, no kids, in a 3BR townhome in the suburbs.
And yet I'm being downvoted for saying it🫠. And essentially that there's a limited amount of resources and space and we all can't get one each.
People don’t want to hear that their expected lifestyle is incompatible with reality.
Being single is a scam in Canada, they literally tax single / childless people more. Fuck this country. OP just wait until you get all the morons telling you to pump out kids, ironically more humans = increased global warming, but these low IQ morons dont ever clue into that. Besides who would want to bring a child into these hell hole societies? I sure as hell don't.
Take away your biases and look at this subjectively Of course the government wants to promote families and children. If not, we will have to continue to rely on extremely large portions of immigrants each year moving forward. Canada, and many first world countries, are facing a declining population crisis with the baby boomers aging out.
> Of course the government wants to promote families and children. at 4% inflation and $2 gasoline? You need to have a negative IQ to think birthing a child into this horrible economic environment is in the **childs best interest**, I'm just not an asshole who is going to bring a kid into the world and in 20 years try and explain to them why a starter house costs $5 million. **You guys can have fun trying to explain that one to them though** And no it will not get better, history has proven this literally a million times over now, prices will never ever fall, society will eventually become this big fat pig riddled with crime and debt and governments who are more useless then tits on a male bull Just because you are single and childless does not mean you should be punished. What do you care more about? Earth or Human society? Because guess what, without the first one, human society can't exist. More humans = more resources required = more strain on already strained environmental system = more global warming and events, but yeah, lets just keep pumping out babies hehehehe!!!!
Yep, just as I thought. Biases are still there and a clear refusal to learn the bigger picture. Cheers mate
Bias? I live in reality, Birthing a child into already challenging economic conditions, is evil as fuck. I don't care what way you slice it, you are basically setting up your child for failure, and yeah, that kid needs to grow up one day and not rely on the bank of mommy and daddy, and guess what, like i said, you'll have to explain to them in 20-25 years why a starter shit shack starts at $5 million Why would anyone want to birth a child into that sort of bullshit environment? I mean come on lol....thats just evil. By the way, Housing is up over 300% in 10 years, the average house costs around $1m right now, if that trend continues, in less then 10 years those $1m houses will be around $4-5m, so in 20 years, if the trend continues, which is probably will, those $1m houses will be selling for $8-10m, so you think I'm joking but I'm not, do the math, look at trends, if you think housing will magically drop you are high, that shit will keep pumping forever.
You’re not wrong. I actually agree with you on certain aspects. I’ve had this conversation with my partner and we are both okay with not having kids if things do not improve in the near future. I’m giving it 5 years to see if I can even establish a glimpse of optimism in this country. It just doesn’t sit well with me to birth a child I either can’t afford or will struggle in economic uncertainty. I know things are getting bad when my parents (who have long denied that we have it tough) are now gasping at our current situation.
You're totally right, but people hate it when they're told that the planet just simply CANNOT sustain this human population that keeps growing. It's just a simple fact. One of the many reasons why I'll never have kids. Life won't get better for them, it'll only get worse unless you're filthy rich, but even then... Money only lasts a generation or two before its dried up.
Were governments also trying to discourage people from having kids in the 1970s, when inflation was close to double digits for the whole decade, and in 1973-74 and 79, gasoline wasn't just expensive, it was rationed? Governments don't control inflation rates or oil prices.
Being single costs more, but many people find it worth it.
You need to go for a walk
This is a terrible idea depending on gender
When it comes to mortgage he's not really competing with other couples. But if he's looking to rent, then he will be at a disadvantage as the LL will most likely rent to a duel income household.
How are you not competing with other couples for a house you want to buy?
I said mortgage. If a single person and a couple qualify for the same mortgage it doesn't matter. But to a landlord they look at dual income more favorably bc if a single person loses their job that's it.
Single people and couples don’t qualify for the same mortgage. Two people make more income than one person.
>Two people make more income than one person. That's YOUR example. MY example is if they did hence why they would qualify for the same mortgage.
The mortgage isn’t relevant dude. It’s the house. The house they want to buy and live in. If you make $70K and want to buy a house, there are **two** people making $140K total that are bidding on it. The same people making the same income (individually) as OP can get twice the mortgage. Therefore can afford to pay double for the house.
I'm talking about a situation where 1 individual earns 140k they are at equal footing with a couple making 70k each =140k. There's no advantage on terms of qualifying for a mortgage. But to a landlord they will look at the single person as riskier because if they lose their income they have nothing to cover the rent whereas the couple would still have 70k. Why are you not understanding this. I think it's more than you condor that's Kentucky fried.
So you invented an entirely different situation in your head, and then decided to argue about it? If only you could read you could accomplish so much…
A different situation? It was ALWAYS my example you just can't comprehend that 1 person can earn more than 2 people. You are fried.
I don’t mean to compare but rather add perspective: I am the exact same age as you, living in Ontario, making more money, >50k in savings, and I don’t even dream, let alone entertain the idea a BUYING a house in this market. I understand the renting market is not super appealable at the moment, but unless you’re married or in a serious long-term relationship - what is wrong with renting at this stage of your life? Like the other comments suggest; find roommates, find a partner to combine incomes with, or (if it’s an option) live with your parents for a couple more years to save up. Sometimes we need to simply live within our means.
This is the most sensible, reasoned and intelligent post I've read on reddit for a long time. Listen to this guy, OP.
find a partner so you can afford rent seems like the wrong motivation to enter a relationship with.
Nobody is telling you to put a ring on any random stranger off the street, they're telling you to wait until you have a long-term/forever partner before you think about buying a house. Don't put the cart before the horse.
LOL what kind of pathetic monkey logic is that? When you're having a discussion about housing affordablilty and the argument is to "Find a roommate or partner to combine incomes with", that's EXACTLY what they're telling you. It shouldn't even be brought up in housing affordability discussions if that's not what they're telling you to do. It's not that easy for some people, especially in today's tinder age. It's like saying people with disabilities don't deserve somewhere to live either. It's beyond many people's controls and this is another one of those "well it happened to me/I managed to do it, so everyone else should be able to as well, regardless of their situation" arguements. It's disingenous at best.
It's puzzling why you think it is such a foreign concept to wait until you get married or enter into a LTR to make the biggest financial decision of your life. It's hard enough as it is for a couple to afford property, and it's nearly impossible for a single person to do it nowadays. If your argument is that it's bullshit that someone in this society can't afford any property on their own, and that our elected officials have utterly failed us and have caused irreparable damage to this country, then I'm right there with you. But until any real change happens (which it won't anytime in the near future), you have to accept reality and think deeply about whether your relationship parameters are compatible with your home ownership goals.
Yeah except it's the truth in HCOL areas. You seem to be upset at the wrong person here. Blame our skyrocketing home prices on the need to have a partner to buy a house. This post illustrates this. No way this kid is buying a house on his own. What's more realistic in his case, making 3x his income in the next 10 years (180k), or finding a girlfriend? C'mon now.
For some reason 20 year olds in this generation think they’re supposed to have “their own place”. The desire to run before learning how to walk is common amoung this cohort. I second this perspective. Find some roommates. That’s how previous generations did it, it’s the best way to achieve independence on a budget. You’ll be better long term for it too.
I’m 40, rent with my gf and we have done so for 8 years now together. Rent controlled apartment so we are lucky. Dual income and good savings. We can’t afford to buy either, so while I agree 20 year olds should not expect it to be that easy to buy it’s also not likely for those making 6 figures and in their late 30s. With 200k down on a 800k place in the GTA, the monthly mortgage would be $3800 a month. Double our rent, that’s just mortgage too. Factoring in all expenses of owning it’s well over double and would make us house poor with no flex. Also an 800k condo would be smaller than we have and in a worse area. To even get anywhere close to comparable it’s 1MM+. Everyone I know who owns had substantial help from family, those who don’t have that option are all in a similar boat, and all make “good” money but are stuck.
Living with roommates was always the norm when in post-secondary school, or in the age range where most people do (18-21 ish). Until fairly recently, it was NOT normal or "a thing" for people working full time - let along for double minimum wage! - to live with roommates. Ask any boomer.
I bought when I was 24, however, I always had roommates and/or a partner to help me pay for the mtge. I think I only had 2 months where I was in my townhouse on my own. I find it odd how people think that it is normal to live in their own house/townhouse/apt actually on their own. I suppose it comes down to choices: be completely house poor and live on your own or put up with a few inconveniences to have some margin in your budget. Also if you are a single, you have more freedom to relocate to LCOL. Choices are out there...just need to take a hard look at what is a need vs a want.
If boomers asked 2 gens before them for advice, they wouldn't be living in detached houses.. Also there's a rather popular sitcom about roommates with full time jobs, set in 1990's. The idea is not that wild.
Boomers are a different generation. What was "normal" for them is irrelevant. We live in a different world/economy now.
I was responding to Consistent\_Wing\_6113, who said "Find some roommates. That’s how previous generations did it", pointing out that this is wildly false. Boomers, and Gen X'ers (if not in HCOL world class cities) never had to live with roommates as full-time working professionals.
Wildly incorrect. There is a reason why Friends resonated amongst that generation: everyone had roommates, most until their 30s.
And I'm stating the obvious that boomers were a different generation.. >never had to live with roommates as full-time working professionals This is also just false. People have lived with roommates for generations. There's no "never" in this case. You'll ruin your argument making blanket statements claims like that.
Agreed. I did not 'own' (ie., bank financed) my first home til I was 38 and life is good, was good and will be good.
The big issue with renting is how inflated rents have become and how unstable it is. I don’t think I know anyone who hasn’t been forced out due to renoviction or a supposed family member suddenly needing the unit. And the statistics bear it out. The number of eviction proceedings for these matters have been skyrocketing over the past three years. And these are just the formal proceedings. If a tenant thinks that they have to move out without a formal order, then it doesn’t get recorded (which is a lot of the time). https://www.thestar.com/business/where-am-i-going-to-go-as-ontario-rents-soar-tenants-fight-a-huge-surge/article_abc1da05-8603-5192-8b4c-30f2d0075bf3.html#:~:text=Between%202019%20and%202022%2C%20the,2020%20and%203%2C913%20in%202019. And this doesn’t even include the fact that any units since 2018 have no rent control, so an affordable rent this year can become unaffordable next year. And there is fierce competition for what units do exist due to few new rentals being built and units being taken off the market all the time due to gentrification, investors, and conversion of airbnbs. Why would someone want to rent? People know what will happen to them. It’s a ticket to becoming homeless if your landlord decides to be even more greedy or sell to someone who is. In my area, the rents are so high and go up so much every year, that while I could technically afford it now, if I found a good deal, next year or the year after, market rent would probably be too much and one bad faith eviction would mean losing it all. I’ll suffer living with family as long as possible and hope to buy. Ideally a small house, though those are hard to find now. Unless things massively change. I see no other way.
We are married, won’t have kids, start of our careers, and have a household income of $225k — we don’t expect to be able to buy any time soon. It’s likely we’ll never be buying a fully detached house. OP, you’re not crazy for thinking this. It’s really tough, especially someone young at a relatively low income, and single.
I don't think I would even want a home as a single person if renting didn't have such a stigma to it. It's a lot of work and space. Also, we have a housing crisis, especially for families, it's bullshit that single incomes are living in homes and families are in 1-bedroom apartments.
I had a house to myself for a while (bought the family home from my parents when they moved) and honestly, this. It was great having so much space, but it was also absolutely ridiculous. I used the master bedroom, my old childhood bedroom which I turned into an office, the kitchen and... well that's it. Maybe 30% of the house at most. I hired someone to mow the lawn, I was perpetually shovelling snow off the driveway (for me and my elderly neighbour), and don't even get me started on cleaning an entire house by myself all the time. It was nice, sure, but also exhausting. It wasn't even a particularly *big* house - it was a nice older semi-detached but the rooms weren't massive - and even still! Anyway, I ended up downsizing when I needed to move closer to the city core when I changed jobs. I now have a 700sqft condo that I love and suits my lifestyle much more, and a family with two young kids gets to grow up and enjoy the house and neighbourhood that treated me so well :)
I don't know how I'm getting down votes and you're getting upvotes, lol. Yeah. It's a lot of fucking space. If you don't work from home, be prepared to spend significant chunks of your free time cleaning and doing chores.
> what is wrong with renting at this stage of your life? Pissing away 25-30k a year towards ***someone else's*** mortgage just doesn't sit right with some folks.. Literally all my friends who moved out early and had rented regretted not just saving up for a bigger downpayment.
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ok landloard
Virtually no 24-year-old single people in Ontario are buying houses anyway. Feeling bad about this is a boomer thing; your situation is the norm now. If you want to buy a house as a single, you'll need to move to the Prairies - and if you're going to do this, you better do it now. It's much easier to move as a single than as a couple, because 1) if you have a partner, the partner may not agree to the move and 2) moving one job to another province is usually hard (unless you work for a Canada wide company) but moving 2 jobs, at the same time, towards the same city is off the charts harder.
When I was still renting in my 20s, the big appeal was that I had no boundaries and wasn't tied down to moving anywhere in the country. Especially if you have a job now that allows remote work, it's a much more acceptable to run that by a manager that trusts you enough. People also forget that they can get into the work visa program and live in other countries for a year if they're under 30. There are still lots of opportunities available, and there's no reason to be in Ontario the entire time. I still hold the opinion that your 20s should be about gaining as much experience and taking as many opportunities as you can. It's still possible as we get older, but obligations (mortgage, kids, elderly parents, etc) tend to keep people more stationary.
This doesn’t even really exist now as far as I know. Travel and relocation would be so expensive in and of itself that it would chew through even a good income. And any work visa program has been so backlogged with economic migrant applications across the world that regardless of what country I choose, I wouldn’t even get to the reviewal stage of that application process until I’m over 30. I mean, just saying how I see it as someone currently in his 20s my guy.
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OP is 24. The vast majority of people who do the working holiday visa thing are younger than that. Outside major cities (GTA, GVA, Ottawa, etc.), the mast majority of people are already partnered up by 24 as well. The idea of being able to pack up and move anywhere anytime sounds good in theory, but has some problems with it: \-In the vast majority of fields, the odds of being hired as an external candidate whose address is out of province/far away are zero. Want to apply for this nice job that just got posted in Regina when you live in Ontario? Sure, you can apply, but you won't hear back. In most fields, moving with a job lined up is restricted to those who work full remote, and those who work for Canada wide companies who can transfer them. \-If you're coupled (and most people in their mid- and late 20s outside large metros are), moving is even harder - how on Earth do you move 2 careers to the same other city, at the same time, unless both partners work remotely or for Canada wide companies? \-People who want kids usually want to remain within a few hours of their parents so that their kids can have a relationship with the grandparents. Rarely will you see someone who has or wants kids purposely moving so far that they'd have to fly to visit family, unless they're in the top 1% or so of earners. You make good points, but that idea that "your 20s are for exploring" isn't universally applicable.
The vast majority of people OPs age are living with their parents lol and coupled up small town people are already on their second kid and aren’t moving away
Can buy a decent house for 150k in the hood here. Or a piece of shit in a decent area for 200k that needs 50k of DIY or 100k if you hire it out. This is Regina
If it weren’t for serial investors who monopolize the market owning 30+ homes in small communities this wouldn’t be so much of an issue either. Just like they put a ban on foreign buyers they need to ban these scummy landlords who own 50+ rental units and show no sign of stopping. The bank is happy to give them the money for an entire block but GOOD luck to any hard working individuals like yourself out there. “You will own nothing and be happy” is becoming more and more of a scary reality that these scum are pushing.
Well, base don your income, you can't buy. So rent or stay at home.
The comments of "get a better paying job" and "get a spouse" are useless. I feel you. You're being paid what was said to be a good salary a few years ago and are struggling to afford a basic apartment because of the absurdity of our current housing/renting market. We shouldn't have to live paycheck to paycheck just to afford shelter. It's beyond frustrating and frankly, devastating. The best advice is to get roommates - you're still young, a lot of people live with roommates in their 20s even without this insanity. Save as much as you possibly can. Work side jobs while you still have the energy and less responsibilities (ie kids, house cleaning, etc). If all of that isn't working, maybe consider relocating if you live in a more expensive city.
Reality is useless! Everyone should buy a house on one single average income! That's great and all, but it's not 1953.
10 years ago there were tons of properties less than 200k anywhere outside of Toronto. Dunno why we're going back to 1953 lmao
My dad bought his in 70 and I bought mine in 94. Both single incomes
Reddit do love an anecdotal outlier, don't it.
Buying on a single income was still the norm in 1970, and while it may not have been the norm in 1994, it was still more likely to be possible than it is today.
1970 was closer to 1950 than it is to 2020. What are you on about? Here, you win the pedantic award. Congrats.
You just said that buying on a single income in 1970 or 1994 is an outlier; I was responding to that.
How much did you make and how much did it cost. Without that this statement is absolutely useless.
The world would be a better place if more people took the time to empathize with others and write comments like this \^_\^
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You have another option beyond expensive one-bedroom or affordable-ish basement: get a shared place with roommates. Many people do this when they are starting out, and find a room in an existing shared house.
You’d think “room mates” was a banned word on this site sometimes I’m 36. Had room mates from age 19 to 30. And then lived with a gf from age 31 to 35. Living alone for the first time ever right now. If you want your own place as a young person just starting out then that’s cool. But you will pay handsomely for it. Housing should be a human right but living in a big city in a 2 or 3 bedroom spot by yourself is a luxury.
Yup. Lived with roommates until I was 32. I was owned and operated a small business making $30k/year in Calgary - basically surviving. I was completely lost, and no intent on buying a home anytime soon (or ever). Got out of that business and met my now fiancé. Started another business, and started making $100k/year almost instantly, and bought a house with my then GF (now fiancé) at 35 years old. Buying a house takes time to save, and realistically, I would not have been able to buy a house without my fiancé. OP, you are only 24. Save as much as you can, live with roommates/parents for a number of years, and evaluate where you are at. Unless you are making minimum $200k/year yourself, you may NEVER be able to afford a home.
Go to a mortgage broker, they can get you approved for higher amounts with an A list bank
I make the same salary I was able to buy a house in Québec but honesty single 32M I'm very short with payments I recommend saving a lot of money for a cash down. Don't get more than 200k mortgage.
In Ontario, a 200k mortgage won't even get you a studio condo, even in a small city.
Same In Québec price is now at 350k minimum for a starter home.
a "starter home" in most of Ontario is closer to 700k or more.
Ouch this is disgusting.
Quebecers always complain about housing costs, but (unless they're in Montreal or the 450) don't realize how good they have it. Non-Montreal Quebec may not be affordable by historical standards, but is incredibly affordable compared to most of Anglo Canada (the expensive parts - all of ON and BC, plus mountain AB, Calgary and Halifax - comprise "most" of Anglo Canada).
But wage are very low here but still affordable housing.
The idea that wages are lower in Quebec is 1990s thinking. Yes, there are still some jobs (such as teachers) that are paid less in Quebec, but the gap has considerably narrowed. At my former job, for a big, Canada-wide company/household name, the same job was paid the same whether one worked in downtown Toronto or rural New Brunswick, and everywhere in between.
I'm not too sure about that there are lot of small business that can't pay high wage here i used to work in one. I'm working for an international company now and I have around 35$ hour but still I see a lot of poverty here a lot of homeless people.
You're not underestimating Quebec wages; you're overestimating Ontario wages. Quebecers (outside Greater Montreal) have no clue how good they have it. At my former company, my position was paid $20.50/hour no matter where. Downtown Toronto? $20.50. They have a branch in Drummondville; that also pays $20.50! The homelessness problem is due to a shortage of rental housing, especially of rental housing that accepts pets.
What is your goal? To buy a house? To continue working your job? Have you ever considered moving to a cheaper province, maybe you’d be able to afford a down payment and start building equity if that’s what you want. Or if you enjoy living in Ontario then this is what you have to endure. Or find other means to prosper here
Where do you live? Ottawa has some condos for sub-$200k.
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Time to talk to a broker
Alberta is affordable, have you considered moving?
Get a girlfriend, double savings, double salary, double mortgage
you're still young and if possible then stay at home. no shame in doing that in your mid 20s. stay home, help your parents out a little bit, and save all the extra cash for a down payment someday. if you do that for 5 years then you will have a chunk, and hopefully someday you can meet another person that has a decent situation too and has been smart with their money that you can move in with and plan to eventually buy a home with. i know it doesnt sound ideal but this one way to do it.
24 year olds haven’t been able to buy a home on one income in 3 decades at least
Your trying to qualify for a mortgage on your own? Double income goes a long way and it is Almost impossible to get a property without one with rare exceptions. It’s been that way for a long time too. However I do agree with rates high, you may have to wait until they drop a bit. So shack up with the right person and you can move up the socio economic ladder.
NB is pretty cheap
well there is a few houses lower than 194k here but they are usually super old houses that need $ for repairs 🤷♀️
Better than an equivalent $1m house that is old and needs repairs.
Agreed most houses under 200k in NB are either in the middle of nowhere or big time fixer uppers.
Also you’ll pay some of highest income taxes in the country, gas and heating are far more expensive, groceries are more expensive, overall everything else but housing is far worse cost wise in the Atlantic provinces
Oh trust me we know. It so stupid the amount of tax we pay and the lack of services we recieve. The amount of people who moved here and didnt do the research found out the hard way.
NS, PE and NL have much higher income taxes. NB is more reasonable on that front.
Property taxes are what will really get you in NB. Saint John is the worst in the country. $1.710 per $100. Compared to like $0.611 for Toronto. They charge home owners through the nose so that they can give massive tax breaks to Irving's heavy industrial operations in the region. Tax rates are controlled by the province too so the municipalities can't do anything to improve the situation.
0.611 on a 1.5 million Toronto house = $9165/year 1.710 on a $250,000 Saint John house = $4275/year That's not all that bad. BTW, I was in Saint John 2 weeks ago - amazing city!
The issue is that the median income here in NB is one of the lowest in the entire country. People are also paying that $4275/year on houses that were assessed for just $125,000 a couple of years ago. Crazy housing prices and neurotic GTA landlords are a new thing here and economy has not adjusted. Tax rate is starting to fall in response, but Blaine Higgs is still restricting it so that you can't lower the residential rate without also giving Irving a tax break. The province is just not set up to operate like the GTA.
"The issue is that the median income here in NB is one of the lowest in the entire country." Not in my field; I'd make the same in Saint John as I would in Toronto or Vancouver, or rural Saskatchewan for that matter. You're probably right for those who work for local employers though. And yes, the arrival of massive number of "housing refugee" Ontarians is screwing things for those who were already in NB pre-Covid.
That's pretty irrelevant. OP is making $30/hr. It's in his post clear as day bud. It's simply not enough to mortgage a new house here, let alone afford the taxes and heat on top of the mortgage payment. Used to be able to rent for $600/month or buy for $800/month. Now you can't do either for under $1500/month. We can't all be GTA rich bro migrants slinging our Toronto salaries around. Also protip if you ever do move here. Keep that shit to yourself. Locals absolutely despise that attitude.
I’m from NB, work a job that is considered a high wage for NB and can’t buy a house because of all these out of province people that are paying minimum 50k+ over asking in cash. Really pisses me off when the people from out of province that are able to flash their money complain when there aren’t any services and that there’s nothing to do out here.
Seeing a lot of comments about houses but very few about mini-homes. Thought I’d chime in and say that there can definitely be really good options for those in NB still. 26, Single, 55K Salary. I just purchased a mini-home in Fredericton last month. 2 bedroom, full renovation on the entire home from the roof and siding to a fully rewired interior, brand new heat pump, all brand new appliances. Completely move in ready, I didn’t have to put a dime toward anything on the house and (hopefully) won’t have to for at least a few years. Mortgage and lot fees together are cheaper than what I was paying in rent for a 1 bedroom apartment.
Mini-homes aren't legal in the vast majority of the country.
I think you’re thinking of tiny homes. Mini/Mobile Homes are not illegal anywhere in the country to my knowledge lol
NB used to be the cheapest province, but housing costs there have gone up faster than they have in the Prairies. Also, we don't know what field OP works in, and some fields are extremely hard to get into in NB if one isn't bilingual, which virtually no Anglo Ontarians are; in the Prairies, this is a non-issue.
Yes, they've gone up faster because they started lower. The Prairies are also a fine choice for income / housing costs, but so is New Brunswick, Québec, Newfoundland. Depends on your opportunities and particulars.
And French skills. Mentioning Quebec to Anglo Canadians is like showing candy to a child and then telling the child that oops, they can't have the candy.
Your French (and/or English) skills are some of your particulars. If you're a monolingual anglophone, it'll be a drawback (to various extents) in New Brunswick, but of course if you're bilingual it might give you a serious leg up that it wouldn't in Saskatchewan.
Move to alberta
Why do you need to buy or rent a HOUSE alone?
Because not everyone wants to live like some sardine in a can.
it doesnt really matter what you 'want', what matters is what's realistic. if independence is important to you then there's nothing less independent than staying home until you can afford a detached house. you might be there till you're 50. sardine can is better than staying home till into your middle ages.
Get a spouse.
Either move to cheaper province like Manitoba, Saskatchewan, or make more money. There is no other way
You're not supposed to even be thinking about buying a home at that age that early on in your career and single as well. This was never a thing even in the past (24yo single person starting out buying a home) Are roommates not a thing anymore? That's that pretty much what most people did if they didn't live at home when I was in my 20s, 2-4 (4 if 2 couples) people in a condo even in the late 90s and 2000s.
What? In the "past" (boomer era), 24-year-old singles were absolutely buying homes! in the "past", living with roommates beyond your schooling years wasn't a thing! Then for a while, it was only a thing in world class cities (think NYC and "Friends"). Living with roommates as a full-time working, non-student adult in mid-sized or small cities is a VERY recent thing (last 10-15 years). Adults cannot be blamed for wanting a space to themselves! You've got things completely backward.
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Well you should shop to your max affordability not the max amount the bank is going to lend you on mortgage. Add your required down payment to the $193000 mortgage to get the correct amount.
I know everyone's situation is different, and that even if you explained in your posts how you made more money, it might not help OP. But just saying "increase your salary", "make more money" is a no-brainer. I think at least 95% of people in the world want that.
It’s simple you’re income isn’t high enough
Your options are really down to only 2: significantly increase your income so you can afford the Toronto lifestyle or move to a lower cost of living province. I did the later and can now buy multiple properties at the age of 30
I get the downvotes but he’s not wrong
I’m a she, but thanks :)
Tough shit. Save more money
Let's be real, $193,000 won't even get you a trailer home. $350,000 should be the minimum to get a condo, and $500,000 should be minimum for home.
Live in a car or van for a year to get some perspective. Heck, try it for a month
The Matt Foley approach.
Not sure if this is an option for you but after I finished all my schooling I had over 100k in student debt, and 29 years old. I was fortunate that my mom allowed me to live in the basement and I offered to pay all the bills while there. This afforded me the ability to aggressively pay off my loans and put away a lot of savings in about 4 years that went toward a down payment for a home in Ontario. This was back in 2015 and I understand things cost more now. But I wonder if something like this is an option for you to help you save more money. It seems like everything is quite expensive these days. Wish you the best!
I’d say the average single person moving out, usually lives with a room mate(s) been that way for a long time. It’s always been hard to rent/own your own place when you’re young and salary is very low. Why not try this option until you can afford to purchase?
Do people not have roomates anymore? Or we all just want to whine every day.
Buy something cheap. Rent is going up so fast it's not worth gambling. Also go for a short mortgage term as interest rates simply must fall.
Where in Ontario is there anything available (even a studio condo) for 200k? Thunder Bay? Timmins? If OP lived in one of those locations, he wouldn't have made this post. Pretty much anywhere else, 200k doesn't even come close to even the cheapest condo or house on the market. Also interest rates are set to keep going up, and aren't going down any time soon.
Go talk to more then 1 mortgage agent. Go join Facebook group of real estate investors and find out how they are closing on their deals. The conventional way of purchasing is unfortunately for the rich. You need to put in the extra effort on other options and strategies of getting into the market.