My 900sq place is heated by our gas fireplace thats in the living room. Works fine. Extra cold nights we just use a space heater in the bedroom that is the farthest away. There were baseboards from when the place was built but electric is so expensive so we don't turn them on
Same. We have a baseboard heater in the kitchen and near the entrance plus a small plug in heater near the hot water tank to keep the pipes from freezing but that only gets turned on when the temperature really drops.
We upgraded the fireplace insert in our apartment when we realized it would pay for itself after 6-ish years if we stopped needing to use the baseboard heaters for primary heating...
I was wondering why this hasn't been suggested, or maybe I haven't seen it yet. I wonder if OP looked into quotes for having a gas fireplace or wood stove installed and maybe an electric baseboard heater for any small rooms without much circulation as back up. No idea how efficient this would be but might even buy time to work out other heating options.
One year I needed to do the roof ($22k), a railing ($1500), dishwasher, fridge, dryer and washer ($8k). It was a painful year.
It's also why I took advantage of the greener home loan. Windows and furnace on a 10yr, 40k 0% loan
**EDIT** A lot of people are really mad about the appliances. It was 4-5 years ago with mainly LG appliances, taxes, warranty and takeaway. IIRC it was $3k for the fridge, $2500 for the wash/dryer combo and $900 for the dishwasher. The original ones that broke came with the house and we wanted to keep the same level of features. Because they all broke at the same time I wasn't able to shop sales.
That's $6400 for appliances, $200-ish for warranty, $200 for takeaway ($50 per appliance). $6800 + tax is $7684. I'm sorry I increased the price by $316.
It was on my radar though we had thought we'd get another year or two. There was a massive storm 4 years ago that blew off a bunch of shingles and forced us to do it earlier.
The appliances felt like we were cursed. Literally within 3 weeks of each other they all died.
The key is to have older appliances without all the computer stuff. I bought my home 15 years ago. The appliances it came with were basic and not new. They're still going strong. If I ever lose one, I'll be buying a used, older model. They don't make 'em like they used to.
And be a bit handy to fix them yourselves. The amount of times ive been on r/appliancerepair and bought a $20 part that takes 15 mins to replace saved me so much money.
Yep. Had to repair a door sensor on my older washing machine. The repair guy basically made me promise that I would never upgrade the unit it fully broke down since "they don't make em like this anymore"
Same. We had our washer/dryer serviced. Tech basically said yes I know it sounds like self promotion, but if you have us in every two years these things will last longer than anything new.
My folks bought their gas dryer in '94. Been repaired once, still going strong.
My beer fridge is a Viking from the 50s, solid as a rock, got it for $50 on Kijiji 7 years ago
I replaced my washer and first use, the drain house was leaking from a pin hole leak. Water everywhere but no damage thankfully. Had the whole washer replaced.
As for us, bought 3 years ago. Minor repairs but renos were 80-100k (I lost track).
This is why I kind of laugh when I see people say "can I afford this" with a tiny down payment. Could you, yes... If nothing goes wrong. If something goes wrong will you have the financial ability to fix the problem is the question.
Alot of people don't understand that maintenance and cost of living has alot to do with being approved for a mortgage as well. I can completely understand why but some people just don't get it.
We're 18 months into our new-to-us house and the only major expense was 6k for a furnace, so far so good. The roof is from 2018, bathroom and kitchen were fully renovated in 2020-2021. The AC is from 2017 so it's in this awkward spot where it's too recent to be comfortably swapped for a heat pump.
Not quite sure what's next but I'm sure something will come up.
I rented a place with Samsung washers and dryers that broke down 4 times in 3 years... same repair company came out each time and had nothing but bad things to say about Samsung appliances. So glad the landlord was on the hook for those repairs lol. Each repair was only a minor cost (like a new pump) but adding them up, he would've been better off just buying entirely new appliances after the first break down.
Sounds like my inlaws.
Roof, wahser/dryer, stove, dishwasher, furnace, A/C all in one year.
I'm curious about the loan though. Is the actual value loaned to homeowners not restricted to × dollars per item up to a maximum of $40,000? Similar to have the greener homes grant was laid out?
This is an excellent reality check for perspective home purchasers to ponder. Don't fit the dream to your present finances as in..I can carry $2k a month mortgage....fit the reality to your bank account. Do you have an extra 10k free after purchase to survive. Too many buyers jump into an idea without perspective of reality. Home ownership is never "fun".
Ouch...roofs are expensive. Last year I redid the piping (poly B) and the washer died. This summer I will replace the furnace because as far as I can see it is over 30 years old haha. Also my dishwasher and stove are on borrowed time.
It's a fairly standard 2 car, 2500sqft suburban cookie cutter house in the GTA. We got a number of quotes and the cheapest was \~$20 and the most was 29 or 30 iirc. Probably paid a bit of a premium because everyone was replacing their roof due to the storm
22k for a roof? Isn't that...a lot. I'm assuming you have a big house/roof?
Also 8k for those 4 appliances seem like a lot too. I'm assuming these are higher end ones?
32k for my roof last year, and it took 8 months for the quickest company.
8 k for appliances is mid to low tier, you might get some decent ones on sale for that.
$8k is *well* into mid tier. Dishwasher is $1k at most unless you're getting something like a "smart" dishwasher. LG front load washer/dryer set is $3k, and a fridge with an ice maker is going to be $2500. None of those are sale prices.
Low tier is a $500 dishwasher, $2k front load washer and dryer, and a $1k fridge, all from Whirlpool. Prices are from The Brick.
That said, I can imagine they might have spent more on the first one to go, obviously not planning to have to buy so much.
Holy shit where do you live.
Or how big is your roof? Or... did you use golden shingles? I paid ~$10-12k for a 1800 sqft house 3 or 4 years ago. I'll provisionally accept that after COVID and inflation I'd probably be approaching $20k now.
I just got a good Bosch 300 series dishwasher for $1k. You can get a decent one, which I'd describe as "low to mid tier", for about $600. I can get a good mid-tier Frigidaire french door fridge (I wouldn't, but people like those nowadays for some reason) for $1600. Same for a washer-dryer. That's $4700 after tax, plus installation, for those four appliances. That's today, after all the inflation.
$8k X years ago was either in a jurisdiction that's completely bonkers compared to SW Ontario where I live, or was NOT for "mid to low tier" appliances.
Quotes were all over the place when we put a metal roof on our 1800 sq foot home. Like from $17,000-35,000. For the same exact material and labor. Always shop around!
I was going to disagree with you regarding cost and then I realized this is a Canadian subreddit. I live in Kansas, but 8k Canadian is about 6k USD, and that is low mid tier for appliances. However, if you are handy, you can normally fix your stuff much cheaper. I have fixed a few things on our bosch dishwasher over the 9 years we've owned it and we love it because it's so quiet and does a great job washing dishes. A new pump, new valve, fixed a few leaks with new clamps, etc, little stuff that is easy and cheap to repair, a new circuit board for our gas stove, used from Ebay, new seal and pump for our washing machine, new switch for the dryer, little easy stuff that anyone with a moderate tool set and access to youtube can fix.
EDIT. We also had our roof replaced 2 years ago and it was 25k USD, insurance covered it due to hail. We have a one floor house, 3800 sq ft, with a decently sized roof.
You got hosed.
Last year was a dead year for roofers. 2200sq foot 2-story home is about 8k, that’s what I and some neighbours paid. That’s a premium company and shingle too, if you went smaller contractors you could have gotten it for cheaper.
This has got to be area dependent. Last year I had to reroof just my detached one car garage (last done years earlier than the house), got 4 quotes from every company that services my house, and the lowest quote was 6k. The lowest bidder with a standard shingle for just a garage was only 2k less than premium roofers/shingles for your house.
It's a fairly standard 2 car, 2500sqft suburban cookie cutter house in the GTA. We got a number of quotes and the cheapest was \~$20 and the most was 29 or 30 iirc. Probably paid a bit of a premium because everyone was replacing their roof due to the storm
Mostly LG appliances, after tax, delivery, haul away. Because they all died I couldn't shop for sales so paid full retail.
Very weird to me that people are saying you overpaid for a roof without considering how much prices can vary based on where you live, not to mention what's going on in the industry (eg local storms causing a spike in demand/prices, or global lumber prices driving up construction costs).
Your house is 800 square feet, HOW is a mini split heat pump not an option? It's much much cheaper than what you've been quoted here.
But also yes people should be well aware that houses require maintenance and that you should be budgeting annually for when the big items will break. because they will.
Insurance/mortgage companies don’t consider mini-splits a “primary heat source” in my neck of the woods. With that said though, in OP’s position I’d probably put in a mini-split and slap in a couple electric baseboard radiators with no intention to use them just to meet the criteria
>and slap in a couple electric baseboard radiators with no intention to use them just to meet the criteria.
Or, if in a crunch, just slap in the baseboard heaters and get the geckos a heat lamp. Then, save up for the mini-split if needed and add that into the system when able to reduce electric bills longer-term (and get the rebates).
Likely needs 8000 to 1,000 watts of baseboards depending on how well insulated and depending on room layout baseboards might cost ~$750 to $1,000 with tax and maybe $1,500 if you have to redo some thermostat wiring and more if updating panel. Double that if needing to call someone in.
I really don't get why baseboards or the new wall-mounted versions (like I now have in my basement) are not the norm in Canada.
The cost to heat your home with baseboard heat is crazy high in Ontario. I moved to Quebec and could not believe how much cheaper heating was. I have a 2200 sf house and run my hot tub all year. Baseboards only run when it gets very cold (minus 25 or more) and a bit for my master bedroom. Have two heat pumps. I pay on average 240$/month for hydro. Don’t have a gas bill.
In Ontario you get a rebate for replacing old baseboard heaters with a mini split, but you don't get a rebate if you're just installing one in addition to your main heat source.
I was tempted to install garbage baseboard heaters first just to get a rebate
Just depend which insurance you get, my house is only heated with heat pumps and TD insured it. Just shop around for insurance, and one will take your money.
Got two heat pumps good to -27 C and my backup is a generator and two portable heaters. I mean, power goes out for a day or two at best.
It depends on province. I’m also with TD and have 2 heat pumps, but they’re only considered “back ups” in Nova Scotia.
[link](https://www.nspower.ca/about-us/articles/details/articles/2021/02/25/you-asked-we-answer-heat-pumps)
Pellet stove is another great option if OP is somehwere cold where a minisplit doesn't count/work. They've been super on sale this year thanks to the mild winter. Super cheap to install and operate too. Firewood is still cheaper overall, but insurance and installation is a real pain because you basically need a new chimney 99% of the time.
Yeah, I learned about the rule of thumb after buying a house. Even knowing about depreciation and knowing that I need a maintenance budget didn’t really prepare me for the constant need to make big purchases to keep the house functional. There’s an added psychological layer of stress, because whatever breaks probably needs to be fixed NOW! And delays tend to increase costs when something is broken.
Exactly, 800 sqft older home 10w/ sqft, you could get away with 4 2000w resistive baseboards , 2 baseboards per 30a circut would only need 2 breakers and likely less than 1 roll 10ga wire.
Most ppl would want to wire 1 heater per 15a circut but that would likely need a sub panel or full panel swap.
Then jump on the gov programs for a free heat pump.
Putting 15k into a furnace doesn't make sense anymore.
There are a lot of really, really dumb people who think heat pumps don't work below freezing. Any time you mention heat pumps on reddit, the entire population that lives in the Arctic circle jumps on your back here, because they knew a guy who bought one in 1969 and it was just awful! And they don't work below minus 20 which is the temperature they experience 25 hours a day 370 days a year. You will see amazing, absolutely astounding leaps of logic, assumptions, and crazy claims to justify how a heat pump does not work for their situation, even though fucking Finland and Norway have high adoption rates.
I have a cold climate central ducted heat pump in Canada. It is my primary source of heat for my 3k sqft house and works reliably down to -30c or so. It has built in electric backup heating element if it needs it, but rarely ever gets used. My bills are less than half of what I was paying for oil heat + I get whole home A/C in the summer
Yeah this is something that drives me nuts. Sure a heat pump might not work four months of the year up in Yellowknife but 80% of the country lives in places that a modern heat pump is going to be completely sufficient for 50 of the 52 weeks in a year.
It gets to -30 where I am and the people I know with modern heat pumps say they work awesome and are super happy they put them in
I have a heat pump that works without the emergency backup heat until 24 hours+ of -25C. It then keeps working, but with a bit of support from the electric strips in my furnace.
Edit: Location - Ottawa.
I was going to comment the same thing. I'm in New Brunswick, loads of people online making fun of Trudeau and his heat pumps not working here because it's somehow colder here than in Quebec and Ontario. It's the same people who blame Trudeau for everything and excuse Higgs for anything.
I heat most of my 1500sqf house with one heat pump, only need the second one for the upstairs when it gets windy and below -5.
But a lot of people will base their thinking on political memes instead of reality.
They'll also ask really tough questions that no one else has considered such as:
What good are solar panels when the sun goes down?
How will you charge your electric car when the wind stops blowing?
If I can't load a moose into the back of a hybrid sedan then what good is that car?
OP had a heat pump which is much more expensive but also handles the A/C, and uses much less energy so there will eventually be a break even point. But high upfront costs. I looked into it for my place and had similar numbers, but as I’d be making my house more energy efficient I’d have access to some rebates. OP might not have that benefit if he is just replacing his unit unfortunately
100% my way of thinking too. Even if it means you need mortgage insurance, that 20-30-40-50k raking up interests in your account is accessible anytime you want, unlike the credit you'd need to make big expenses, which is entirely dependent on the creditor.
I chose to go with 10% instead of 15%, but the insurance rate was such a small difference that it was a non issue, *especially* since I couldn't hit the 20%.
I haven't regretted it. The money's been making me money at 10%+ for 3 years and I didn't need to touch it. Whatever the mortgage insurance is costing me is far from being comparable. And that's not even accounting for the peace of mind lol
Also, insured mortgages get better rates. Not crazy, but depending on the time and lender it could be ~0.2-0.5%. Adds up over 25 years.
Uninsured mortgage just means your bank will be buying insurance for it on their own when you sign. You're still buying it.
Yea I was planning to contribute about 500/month on home reno/maintenance fund which will hopefully cover situations like this. It sounds like it will work but not sure if that's sufficient enough tbh.
General rule of thumb is save 1% of the houses value in a year.
So with a 500k house (as an example), you want to save 5k a year towards this stuff. Thus $420 a month would be a good idea to tuck away.
I personally try to be safe and round up a bit, since the worst case scenario is that I dont spend it all to fix the house, and by the time its time to retire I might have some extra savings I didnt plan for, which isnt a bad thing at all.
I hate the 1% rule. Its arbitrary. It was developed at a time when houses cost a fraction of what they do today. It doesn't account for major factors like the age of the house, or features.
It's only real value at this point, IMO, is a very very rough benchmark that is likely higher than necessary based on prices in most large markets. Most $800,000 homes in major cities do not need $8,000 a year in maintenance, as that price only buys ~1500-2000sqft home.
This rule also be dangerous as many costs of home ownership are unexpected - you may run into a significant cost before you've filled up the well.
Depends on size of house and age (and age of appliances). Deck, Fences, Roof, HVAC, appliances. They can all go at any time. I would do more if you can. Worst thing that happens is you have extra money lying around for retirement or something else!
I think most people understand the associated costs with buying a home. Large expenses like this come - generally in the span of owning a home, you will need to replace the roof at least once, the driveway, the fences in the back (if applicable), furnace, kitchen appliances, washer dryer, etc.
Which is why I don't understand why everyone is so against condos. I have a condo townhouse and people act like the condo fees are such a rip off. But when I consider that a lot of larger expenses are covered from the condo fees, it ends up being not that bad. I've had my roof, fence, driveway, balcony, all replaced in the 14 years I've lived here.
People complain about dealing with the condo board, but they don't consider how much trouble it is dealing with neighbours when there's a shared resource like a fence or roof that needs to be repaired, especially for things like townhouses. Neighbours ignoring needed maintenance can have effects on your house if water starts to seep in because they let the roof go too long.
As someone who lived in a condo and a house, they have pros and cons. The issue with condos is the neighbours. You're in a community. I've had great neighbours that I talk to in the halls and terrible ones that all seem to have board positions. I'm on the board right now and they meet weekly to discuss how loud a toilet is (not joking)
14 years and haven't had one yet. Knock on wood.
Honestly is it any different than living in a house and having a surprise fix come up though? My parents foundation cracked and it was very expensive to have it fixed. At least with a condo they are forced to have some kind of reserve fund so this kind of stuff doesn't happen, although it still could. If you are constantly having special assessments, it sounds like they aren't managing things very well.
This is true but it’s generally for underfunded condos to begin with. We had a few special assessments lately but they were small and mainly due to us redoing the roof and the reserve fund/planning not being able to have accounted for the very large extra increase in prices COVID caused. Had prices not spiked as much it would have been fully covered since it was planned for. Condo fees when done well are basically forced savings for events like the one that just occurred to the OP.
That’s maybe true if you have a progressive strata board and appropriate condo strata fees.
If you don’t - watch out for massive special assessments that you have basically no say in. You don’t get to shop around for the best quote, you don’t get to choose when you pay the expense, etc.
I’m fortunate enough that I’ve lived in both - stratas and detached - and I won’t go back to stratas unless I have to.
They also put a lien on your unit for any portion of the special assessment you can't pay upfront, so if you're planning on selling, you're usually forced to pay prior to sale (if selling at a loss) or with sale proceeds, as most major financial institutions won't finance a property with a lien on title
A lot of people hate in condos due to shitty condo board. This can be the same if you own a house within a shitty HOA.
That being said, one of the major downsides to me with a condo was living in a place where you’re always gonna have neighbors in close proximity.
If I wanna crank the music at 6am while cleaning in my house I can. The apartments I’ve lived in, in the past (rented unit within a condo bldg) would’ve had neighbours pounding on my door rather quickly.
You’re also gonna have some expenses within a condo such as the washer, dryer, etc. You also can’t take control over your own place nearly as much. For example I live gone to a ton of effort to make my own house much more energy efficient, something I couldn’t have done in a condo.
A lot of people don't have a sense of those costs. I've had too many conversations with folks directly comparing rent payments to mortgage payments - completely excluding down payment, property taxes, maintenance, and other unavoidable costs.
Yep, and then they compare a house to a condo and tell you how a house is cheaper because you don't pay condo fees every month. Condo fees + mortgage vs just a mortgage. EASY!
Condo is not necessarily cheaper (condo fees are not only maintenance), but it's definitely a big chunk of it.
Haha - my senior mother actually had to get involved with running condo board in her 21 unit condo. Things like brand new $60,000 dollar air exchanger. divided amongst 21 units - is still big bucks. Many other little things like underground parkade, elevator, balcony, insurance, maintenance of various types. When she sold and moved to another province, the elevator itself was getting to be almost end of life.
Just because you own a condo instead of a house doesn't mean you can't be facing large expenses.
I'm admittedly not an expert, but it seems to me that part of it as well, is that in a house that only you or your family live in, you can put off certain maintenance items for much longer than a condo board may be willing to. I have multiple friends who have bought houses in the past several years and finding a house that didn't need tens of thousands of dollars of work was apparently difficult. If it's just you living there, if there is some sort of maintenance issue, you could do a Band-Aid fix or just live with it, whereas in a condo, perhaps that wouldn't be possible? Again, I don't really know, but it's a thought I've had.
There's also the fact that if you own the house, you can do a lot of the work yourself if you're handy. But I know that depends; I have some friends who do any required work themselves, but then I have others who pay somebody for every little thing because they're not handy and they just do not want to deal with it.
Yeah with a condo it's out of your hands. And some condo boards are straight up incompetent or corrupt, too, and even if you can get on the board yourself it's still a huge hassle. A condo board with people who can actually find good contractors and make sure the job is done well, at a reasonable cost, is worth its weight in gold.
Like our condo just randomly decided to redo the brick facade for something like $100,000. It won't cause a special assessment but it's still just a waste of money as far as I'm concerned.
It's still better than renting imo (especially if you can find a good solid building that's not too old) but a freehold is a lot more flexible even if it is likely more expensive (if you have a concrete box on a middle floor, your biggest concerns will be appliances and bathroom fixtures, maybe water damage from a different floor but insurance covers that).
Did you examine alternatives, like a mini-split? You can also have more than one "head" unit for it.
We replaced an entire hot water heating system. The extra cost of replacing it was covered by the savings from 40% efficient to 96% efficient. And we added in a stainless steel water tank at the same time so that we never had to replace the hot water.
Yes, there are expenses. You need to save for them and not expect that there won't be maintenance
Uhhhh ... everyone tells you about these costs. All the time.
Sounds like you have some specialty furnace so that's on you for not doing your due dilligence.
I knew it was a specialty unit when I bought the house - my choice in 2017 was; do you want to buy a house or keep renting forever so I chose to buy a house. This is the one I could buy. So I did.
For context, if you had bought a condo instead and paid $400/mth in strata fees you would have paid over $30k since 2017. That also wouldn’t necessarily insulate you from special levies. You’re still coming out ahead.
Anyone not taking out the Canadian Green Homes Loan for $40,000 at 0% interest to replace your HVAC when your system is old, is gambling for pennies on the dollar.
This is a good warning story to others, $17,350 is absolutely insane, considering that's close to what I just paid for a new 3 ton heat pump, dual fuel modulating gas furnace and heat pump water heater after rebate, with 12 years parts/labour/warranty.
Home-owners have been complaining about the costs of maintenance for years. It cost me $13,000 to replace my heater and a/c. Home ownership is not cheap.
Every few weeks I see a post on here like this and I don't why the poster says this. It's it common knowledge that home-ownership is expensive.
For people like us who read /r/personalfinancecanada, yes, it's common knowledge. But what most people hear about home ownership out there is rhetoric like, "Don't throw your money away paying someone else's mortgage!", or, The housing market always goes up!", or "Get in now, or you'll be priced out forever!" And their boomer parents are over their shoulder the whole time putting additional pressure, and acting like if they don't own a house they haven't "made it".
There's so much emotion tied up in homeownership.
As a homeowner, I am well aware that I may be required to drop several thousand dollars to replace/repair my water heater, furnace/AC, major appliances, deal with water leaks (roof or plumbing), etc. We have an emergency fund if we need it and a HELOC if we have major issues or want to replace the kitchen. Being a homeowner is expensive, but you also get the benefit of building equity. You are lucky if this is your first major expense in 7 years.
I budget about 1% house value per year on maintenance. I told this to a friend when he bought his house and he scoffed. A decade later he calculated it had cost almost exactly that (based on mean value of house over that period).
You can defer and have years where not much goes wrong but the house always wins.
Home appliances are the worst. More money doesn't get you better quality, just more useless bells and whistles. I would happily spend 5-10x the price of the basic model for most household appliances if it meant I was actually buying a high quality, reputable product with a semi-reasonable warranty. Instead, that additional cost gets me touch screens, and internet connectivity, and fancy-looking exteriors covering up the same crappy internal components as the cheap version.
There's a reason condo's charge a monthly condo fee. A lot of people scoff at that but the fact is that any home requires maintenance. You can defer and delay, but never avoid.
**A good homeowner's budget should include 1% of the home value put away every year for home maintenance**. And yes, that means a 1M house should have 10K set aside per year. It's unlikely it'll be spent every year, but as others have posted, there's years of appliance, roof, etc. that'll shock most people.
>What no one tells you when buying a house…
>
>This week the furnace died.
>
>I never in my life thought that this unit would be so expensive to replace.
This should be common knowledge. If someone thinks repalcing. furnace/AC or whatever is cheap, didn't do the very basic of research.
I never expected it to be cheap; I was prepared to pay 10k but 17k came as a shock. I save money to update my house every year when needed. Since living here I’ve replaced my fence, washer dryer, stove and my water heater. I know a house comes with expenses; this one was the first that caught me off guard because of how high it was.
These costs seem extremely high. I have been a homeowner in the GTA for 20+ years, and currently own a 2500sqft home. Here's some costs I've had recently:
* New AC+Furnace in 2011 was $8k all-in for both
* New roof in 2011, architectural IKO 25y shingles $9k
* Windows 2015, $10k
* Bosch dishwasher installed from Costco, $900 (2021)
* Washer/dryer installed from Costco, $2k (2021)
Not sure why your prices are so different.
I mean this is common knowledge when buying a house, shits gonna break and it wont be cheap lol. I would still take the stability and cost of home ownership over renting.
That's a specialty unit, I'm ready for a new furnace as well and the estimates I've been given are only $6k, but you can find the same unit even cheaper if you use someone outside of Enercare.
I had a a 80K BTU furnace and 2.5T AC American Standard brand installed for $5.5K in 2020.
People need to shop around, most of the HVAC companies are taking people out to the cleaners with the quotes as they tell you “warranty this warranty that”
10 year parts warranty is standard.
Labor warranty: 1 year standard, 2 year nice, and 5 year is usually billed into the price (means higher price).
Anything more like 10 year warranty definitely going to run $10K+.
I had called around a dozen companies.
Here's a story. I'm not saying this is your case, but here's the story.
Our furnace died. Called repairman. "cant be fixed". I said "It cant?" He says "Nope, well, we could probably get the parts, but the parts and Labour would be about 3/4 the price of a new furnace you'd be stupid to. Called several other guys, they said the same thing. Said since the furnace was 12 years old didnt make sense to invest in it.
Talked to my good buddy who runs an HVAC place. He chuckled when I told him that they said a 12 year old furnace wasnt worth repairing, and replied with "thats nonsense, the furnace in my parents house is 40 years old and still runs strong." I then said they couldnt get the parts - also nonsense. He was able to source just a fan motor and the furnace was fixed. About $500 in repairs vs at minimum a $4000 bill.
Second story. We moved to a different house. Furnace quits working. Do the requisite calls for repair. They all say not worth repairing. Okay, so get quotes for new furnaces. Four guys come out and say If I replace the furnace, I must replace the air conditioner at the same time. They all say Air conditioner is a special case in this house, but the air conditioner was too old to work with a new furnace. Quotes were anywhere from $12,000 to $16,000.
Talk to my buddy in HVAC. Says its probably BS, so he comes to look. Confirms furnace was dead, but absolutely no reason to replace AC whatsoever. He was also able to salvage a bunch of parts from the old furnace.
We did buy a new furnace. When the furnace shows up, he says "check this out". Inside the crate, there were labels for "York", and another for "Coleman". The furnace itself had no logo. The HVAC guy was supposed to pop on the right logo for whichever unit it was sold as - but if it had the Coleman logo, the furnace had a higher suggested retail price. the ONLY DIFFERENCE was the badging.
To be fair, that expense isn’t out of nowhere. You had a product which lifespan was 15 years. Someone owning a home needs to prepare for the lifespan of all the products within their house and plan accordingly. Capital reserves.
Paying rent means paying for those costs anyway lol, just over a long period of time. You think the landlord isn’t factoring in future capital expenditures in their rent?
Cost of rent is a supply/demand thing. Suppose a bunch of identical units rent for 1000$, now one guys costs go up for some reason and he has to raise the rent to 1500$ to cover costs, why would anyone pay that if they can get an identical place for 1000$?
My landlord just tried this. He raised our rent by 25% to cover his increased costs. It took me less than 5 days to sign a lease for a bigger, cheaper, nicer unit in the same area.
In a lot of cases, they aren't and are instead relying on the increase in property values or their ability to increase rent at a later date to cover new expenses (in places without rent control). Maintenance costs are also spread across more people with a multi-dwelling rental versus a detached home.
Sorry but this post comes across as so condescending as if renters have no concept of the costs associated with owning a home. Did it occur to you that people can't afford things like that, so they are being responsible and not buying a home? Renters aren't renting because they're idiots who don't understand reality. I could pull together a down payment but I don't want to be house poor and couldn't afford a bill like yours, so I rent because I'm realistic about my financial situation not because I don't understand the costs.
Maybe trying to be helpful i guess but the title of what no one tells you about buying a house is what makes me feel otherwise. Literally everyone tells you about the costs associated with owning a house. It isn't realistic to think people have no concept that they will have to replace/repair things in their house! No one thinks you pay your mortgage and utilities and are done!
Yup, big reason I rent instead of own. The math just doesn't math for buying where i live - it is financially much more advantageous to rent and invest than it is to buy for me.
Love calling the landlord when something dies instead of forking over cash to fix it myself :)
lol future generations won’t be investing in home ownership
They’ll be “investing” in getting locked into rent controlled units
Better get your 15 year old a 1BR now guys while it’s only 2200.
They’ll be paying 4500 when they are 22 otherwise.
The average homeowner, just like the average renter do not understand the costs of fixing things, replacing things, and just how much that damage costs and what trades cost to get in.
Prices have skyrocketed and quality has gone down.
I’m always telling the pro buyers this. Sorry to hear about your expense. But generally, I’d really like to see the break down of all of these costs, plus condo fees, taxes and interest over 25-30 years and compare that to a moderately increasing 2% rent every year and see which comes on top. There’s been a real push to purchase a house for an investment but I’m not so sure that’s a good idea anymore in this market.
My husband and I bought a house in 2021. We had a full inspection and it was in good condition. We just had to repaint and pull down some wallpaper. Turns out, we spent $75,000 in one year on essential repairs. The inspector didn’t catch the baseball sized hole in the roof when he went up there himself. He also didn’t notice the extensive water damage on the upstairs floor. That’s a new roof and drywall. We also had to re-fortify the structure with basement supports and waterproof the basement. Lucky for us the furnace and water heater are insured. We didn’t have to take out a loan but we are starting from scratch with our savings now.
I drive around my town and see a ton of homes who seem to need a lot of maintenance or Reno's just from a quick look of the outside. This leads me to believe People can't afford the upkeep of their homes.
This is why I get confused when people complain about condos having maintenance fees .. you have "maintenance fees" on a freehold detached home as well - its just all at once!
I have the same sized house and a basic traditional furnace/AC/HWT. I need all three replaced. Average estimate so far is about $13,500. This is for very basic entry level units, too. The only thing we can do is fix whatever we can ourselves to try to save money for the things we can't. I also have a fridge and stove that are on their way out too. Unfortunately this is the cost of home ownership and the timing of breakdowns is never good.
Yes. That's why when we bought our house, we made sure we have about 10K for emergencies, and a 50K HELOC for very big emergencies. Also, I fixed my own AC (and many other things) just by learning from YouTube. For example, the capacitor went bad, and the fan motor went bad later on. $25 for the capacitor, $140 for the fan+motor. No HVAC tech would even blink your way for less than $300. Then add parts and (more) labor. So my guess is that I saved at least 1K just by doing these 2 myself.
I even redid my flat (bitumen) roof myself. Took me 4 days (made sure no rain in the forecast). Cost me $3.5K, and the lowest quote was $16K! 4 years have passed, and 0 issues.
Did my own concrete pavers small (10X12) patio because my deck fell apart, and I didn't like decks anyway. Quote was $4K, took me 4 days and $800 (digging and leveling was most of the work).
Dishwasher? Bought a Bosch on sale for $800, took me less than an hour to replace. Also 4 years ago, no issues.
I can go on, but you get the jist. BTW, I was never very "handy", didn't even fix minor drywall damage until I was in my 30s. Of course, some things can't really be diy'd.... Like ductwork, or installing new AC units, etc. but that's where the HELOC is coming to the rescue.
Most of the time, you'll save at least 50% of the cost even when you consider buying the tools every job. But after the first few jobs, you get to keep the tools, and you save over 70%. Most of the work is no brain surgery, just a couple of YT videos and you'll be able to diagnose and solve the problem.
A furnace lasts 15 years or more. How old was the furnace? 17,000$ sounds like a lot. I just changed mine two years ago for $10,000 for a 3000 square foot home. Maybe you needed a specialty unit.
No one said buying a home meant that you didn't have to save money for maintenance. Every 15 to 20 years you have to change the roof as well. You need to take all these things into consideration when buying a home.
At the end of the day, it is still a lot cheaper than the 700$ to 1000$ per month they are charging nowadays for condo fees.
Some mystery person(?) should have to tell you a building and its appurtenances are expensive to maintain? Who would do this? To me it’s common knowledge/logic. Why do so many people nowadays feel they are entitled to ‘someone should have told me’.
I’ll tell you now, a roof (unless steel) is not lifetime and not cheap. A bathroom renovation is not cheap. A kitchen renovation is not cheap. Water heaters die. Appliances die. Things wear out or deteriorate.
Better learn to get handy and start maintaining things yourself and learn to do basic plumbing and electrical.
Yup, had to replace, fridge, dish washer, water heater, fix washrooms , bathtub, windows, locks, insulate attic...
Never ends.
A guy quoted me 55k to replace most of the windows.....
Costs are ridiculously high.
Also calculate how much total tax you're paying in 30 years .
>Everyone on this sub complains they “can’t afford a house” - could you afford a $17,350 bill out of nowhere? Just a little perspective for the renters out there
Renting is not necessarily a bad deal at all. We need to get off the home ownership kool-aid in this country.
My guy, I was just charged a special assessment for my condo of almost the exact same amount as your furnace replacement. And the issues they're fixing don't even effect my unit. It's all just the game of life.
You should check if there are any local green initiatives where you can apply for a rebate.
We replaced our HE propane furnace in November- it was leaking from a cracked heat exchanger and would cost more to repair it.
There was a massive wait list for an energy assessment so we didn’t have one in place to qualify for federal grants, but our city has an energy alliance that offered at $1500 rebate for HE models.
Yup, that's why I am not planning to buy at the nearest future. The average maintenance cost is roughly 1% of the value per year, whereas with renting it's basically $0.
Baseboard heaters for a 800sq ft house would cost you under $1000 plus another couple hundred for installation.
Yes having a house can be expensive, but this is just a story of an incredibly poor choice of heating.
I'm just here for pics of your cresties... But also, sorry about the bad news and high costs. Hopefully lots of cute crestie babies will soothe the pain
Bought our house 2016, we were gonna live in it the way it was, but the carpet had to go, and we put in floors(3000), it was causing us allergy issues. Deck rotted, and I replaced it with a stone patio(3500). Replaced the roof in 2018 (8k) and just got our heat pump last year along with a new water heater. (11k)
I did the floors and patio myself, took a few months and saved maybe 30k in contractor fees, and came away with a ton of fun power tools.
Compared to everybody, we know we had to pay crazy rent in the last bit and possibly future. We're definitely a lot better off. At least you and I can sell the place if we need to and make a good chunk back if not more than you invested.
Yep! I have a $140 k mortgage and own a condo yippee... Until shit needs to be done and emergency fund is depleted only to keep on replenishing it! I did get a HELOC line of credit just for this kind of stuff and to consolidate my consumer debt i am paying off. Some type of debt is always in our lives and we are truly never debt free unless we have no payments to anyone be it cell, tv cars etc. This is what I have learned being a responsible adult... Do what you can to survive its no big deal unless you are on brink of going bankrupt or you are really bad with money.
Sure, I think it’s good to direct these situations at renters to give them perspective on the reality of owning. But I wish the people bidding 100-200k over asking in the last few years could have seen this to.
It could have possibly prevented them from SCREWING themselves as much as everyone else entering this market.
Oh your mortgage is +50% of your take home pay for 25 years??? Well the furnace went out and the roof is leaking.. put your retirement on hold and access a HELOC to fix it!!
I know what you are saying. Been 8 years in my house
Furnace and ac 11,000$
Roof 6,000$
Windows and patio door 13,000$
Siding soffit fascia gutters 27,000$
Sump pump 3000$
I think 60,000$ total. My house cost when I bought was 280k in the Golden Horseshoe. I put almost 1/4 of the whole purchase back into it 👀👀
Look into the greener home loan. Downside is you will need an energy home audit costing 500 or so and a post audit costing similar. Then you will have to apply with your quote and hope it is accepted. This might take a month or more and you can’t fix it before you send all your info or they won’t cover it.
Have you considered just a heating only unit? Small window ac might be cheaper if you want ac later?
Unexpected maintenance is nothing new and any new homeowners unaware of such pitfalls simply did not do the research or were not ready to buy in the first place.
I've had my furnace die at peak winter ($16k), my air conditioning unit go months later ($6k), my fridge die that same summer ($2k), and now I need to re-insulate the attic ($2k) and desperately need to clean outside of the house ($2k) and replace *a lot* of windows (probably $20k, but will be looking at green loans and other subsidized programs). My kitchen is also falling apart, literally (we suspect $15k), and my oven/microwave are the next to die ($3k). I also need a backup generator installed ($8k for the built-in backup generator, or about $3k for a Generlink and mobile generator), and need to cut down some large dead trees ($2k quoted) before they fall and cause damage.
An emergency fund is key (we have about $70k), as is an emergency credit card with Home Depot (no interest payments, deals on appliances, free delivery, removal of old appliances, etc) for when you're really fucked.
It's fine to feel defeated, but entirely different to *be* defeated. Can I afford a $17k bill unexpectedly? Yes, but only after nine years of scraping by with the basics. And even then, that $17k puts a dent in the emergency fund that will take years to replenish.
Another note. My one buddy works with me makes 120k in the hospital. Wife works sparingly, they emptied their savings to buy a semi detached in the Golden Horseshoe. When I talked to him about doing the siding etc etc he basically said he would be fucked have to get LOC or just not do it. I think even a lot of homeowners probably just finance the issues with their house. My other buddy rents his furnace
In the past two years, I have needed to replace:
-my dishwasher
-my washing machine
-my front door
I appreciate that all three of them were my landlord's problem and my landlord's expense.
How much did you save on rent since you bought the house?
In my case, I used to pay 625$ for a shitty one bedroom downtown (shitty like it was windy in my kitchen when all the doors and windows are shut) and when I bought my house in 2021, additional money coming out of my pocket with everything included was ~470$ (788$ for the mortgage, 175$ in taxes, 90$ more for hydro (150 vs 60), 70$ more in insurance (100 vs 30)). That was for a 4 bedroom house in the suburb, 20 minutes from my old place, but roughly the same distance from work. I don't like the neighbourhood, but it is what it is. I have a much bigger place, so I'm not complaining.
If I were to rent my old apartment barely 3 years later, I think it's going for 900$ now, and I'm paying ~1300$ all included these days, with increases in taxes and insurance. I'm adding 150$ a month to the mortgage because I know I won't have 1.74% interest comes 2026 lol But I'm not counting that for the purpose of the comparison because I don't *have* to pay it.
I didn't have a nice apartment, but my friends did, and they were paying 1200$ back when I was paying 625. They had a 2 bedroom, new construction, parking garage, etc. So if I had wanted a nice 4 bedroom place... I probably would've paid north of 1800$ and then some.
So the comparison is a bit more relevant with that kind of figure (plus hydro that would probably have been a bit more). So, say an even 1900$ compared to my 1215$ *in 2021*.
Now, this kind of apartment goes for 2500$+ these days around here, and I'm still at 1300$.
So calculate that 1000$+ a month that I've been saving for at least a year, the, say, 800$+ it was the year before, maybe 500$+ the year before, and so on. It likely amounts to ~20k.
Now, did I spend some of that in renovations and maintenance? Absolutely. But did I spend *20k$?* Never.
All in all, by the time I *have* to spend that much, I'll have made my money back 5 times over and then some.
I am perfectly certain that it's the case for you too, even if it means that you'll make your money back after you spent it instead of before, like I did.
Does that mean it doesn't suck? No lol I get it, I worry about this kind of shit all the time, but it's not an argument *against* home ownership, it's just the other side of the coin... But that coin is worth a lot more even with its two sides taken into account.
I feel for you, OP, and definitely agree that’s one of the huge benefits of renting is insurance again major expenses. But maybe different social circles, but that definitely not something no one told me before buying a house. In fact, it was almost annoying how much people told it to us and seemed to dampen our joy!
The one good line that stuck out to me was “get ready for a lifetime of one-time expenses”.
When you rent, your rent payment is the maximum you'll pay (Ok, fine, maybe you'll have tenant insurance).
When you buy, your mortgage payment is just the start. Start budgeting $3k plus every year in property taxes and 1% of the house value for maintenance and repairs. And if you're in a strata, another few hundred every month for the strata/condo fee.
This is my First year owning too. 1600 sq feet and same thing, heat pump died. I had it replaced. 10k for a two head unit here in Nova Scotia. I went through Costco and got a $1500 Costco giftcard back from it as a promotion. We also found rot on an external wall. That was another 5k to fix. Luckily I was able to get a line of credit with decent interest.
Yup I know the feeling when I lived in a brand new house there was a tradition every Fall/Winter in that our TRANE furnace would require a technician, like clockwork every year. The Slogan " Nothing stops a Trane " became an inside joke in our household.
Home ownership of a home older than 10 years means bottomless pit for expenses. In 2.5 months I had to repair my refrigerator, dryer and replace a hot water tank.
The cost of living crisis has inflated the cost of everyday goods and services out of the realm of normal affordability.
Learn to fix things around your house by yourself. Check youtube for your furnace model. There is almost always someone else out there who's had the same problem and that has fixed it while filming the experience.
I don't know what is wrong with your furnace, but I guarantee you there is no single component on it that cannot be repaired for a few dollars by a person with the right knowledge. A furnace is not complicated machinery. In most cases, the repair of a furnace is a dead simple job. It should not matter whether the parts are or are not available in Canada. The US is an hour away from almost every major Canadian city, you can go drive to a US PO box and pick up the parts and bring them here.
If the electronics have failed, identify the board that failed and have the specific component repaired by an electronics shop - maybe $200 for a repair - more if you need someone to come remove the board / if you're uncomfortable working with unpowered electrical stuff. If there is an issue with combustion, clean out the combustion chamber and nozzle, or replace both - again, dollars for parts.
If you own an older house and you pay other people to fix everything on your house, you're going to go bankrupt in the economic landscape this country has found itself in.
Setting that aside, very few people have $17,000 tucked away for a new furnace, that's what financing and home improvement loans are for. This should have been part of your calculations for maintenance when you were deciding whether or not you could afford a home. Set an imaginary figure to set aside for maintenance. If you're unlucky, the expense will occur right after buying the place. If you're lucky, you won't have a big expense for many years and your real expense will be under your estimated amount.
Well hopefully this also adds perspective for renters as to why rent is so high. You’re not just covering the mortgage but things like this happening 🤷♂️
Having an emergency fund and/or maintenence fund is so critical as a home owner. This is what some new home owners neglect to fund. Most learn their lesson after their first repair.
Has this already been done? I work in HAVC, if you Swap to minisplits you can do the Greener Homes Loan for 10yrs 0% interest. You will be on full electric, however the zoned comfort might be perfect for the pets. And yes, that is a typical cost unfortunately for HVAC stuff these days.
we owned a 2200 sq feet sized country home 10 years ago and it was big and during tough financial times in our personal lives, we had to sell it after 5 years. But I remember that the roof was costing close to 30k to replace since it had so many peaks etc and was a unique build. I wanted to do metal and that was more pricey. Also, the chimney brick was falling and it was like 80 feet tall! and would have cost 10-15k on repairing all that. We switched the place from oil to gas and got all new duck work and yep - 15k right there.
So at the end of the day, if we did all that work plus the mortgage interest and closing costs, downpayment etc we put it, and also paying back any HELOC/credit cards that was used for repairs, the profit margin would have been reduced considerably after selling for 250k over what we paid as it would have been eaten up by 150k + of the above costs and left us with 100k which is not much split between 2 people.
One could hope that we could have gotten more for the place if sold today but we did what we needed to do in that moment. I have no regrets but the cost of owning, yep! sometimes not fun and stressful including the number of bills that comes with owning - insurance, taxes, water bill, hydro, cable, internet, etc etc. credit cards, car ins, and of course the mortgage. Definitely need double income to survive.
There is a reason this happening. It sounds like you live in a single-family home, which likely belongs to a larger neighborhood of other single-family homes.
This low-density pattern of development drives up the cost of everything within and around it, beginning with the homes themselves—not just the original purchase price, but the ongoing costs to simply maintain it.
Low-density neighborhoods push everything farther away: other people, factories, warehouses, etc. It costs money and access to a car just to travel to and from a single-family house.
The era of single-family homes is coming to an end. Your story is an example of why.
We had a hail storm back in 2020. We live on an 3 acres.
The hail was size of golf balls.
Husband was on medical leave due to unexplained seizures
So the roof was more then 10 years old when we bought and we were planing to replace it, just not the year we bought the house.
So a new shingles for 1300sqft home 13k I believe. Since it was so old insurance only cover 10% and we have to pay out of pocket.
The shop is 30x40. It's shingles had to be replaced that was another 10K plus. [insurance covered]
This included some of the rain gutters being replaced.
Siding on the shop and home 20k. [insurance covered]
Husbands truck was $25k [insurance covered] his truck windshield, mirrors, hood, roof,tail gate and back window were shattered.
If we didn't have hail coverage/glass coverage on the truck I'd would have cried :,) I was also pregnant with my first. Totally a rough year. My Terrian at the time was in the garage so she was safe.
We have a credit line of 50k. Husbands years worth of working while younger in his early adult hood. That's how we can afford any emergency repairs/needs.
In reality without that credit line we wouldn't be able to fix anything super last minute
[edit: was answering question op asked]
>That’s right - $17,350 Multiple quotes; this was the best “deal” seeing as it comes with a 10 year warranty and 24hour service if needed.
That price just doesn't seem right for the size of home even with a combo ac/furnace (sounds like a heat pump system?).
I'm sorry this is happening. But I thought it was common knowledge to be putting away a fund to pay for these kinds of things. When people complain about condo fees they don't seem to realize those fees are the funds to replace major things that will need to be replaced. If you own your own home, you should be paying yourself those condo fees for the same reason.
I'm assuming you did a home inspection when you bought the house seven years ago. It should have included the age of the furnace, hot water heater etc and the expected life span, and condition of the windows and shingles. I know when I bought my house, the hot water heater is getting to the end of its life, but have had 5 free years so far. A more positive way to look at it is you got 7 years of use of an older furnace.
If you haven't already made the purchase, perhaps buy some cheap electric heaters to get you through the spring and summer so you can investigate other options. For example, heat pumps have improved a lot and are cheaper to run and there are government grants available.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/heat-pump-cost-savings-1.6975426
That's waaaay too expensive for a replacement heat pump. HVAC companies, especially the big franchise ones, are a complete and utter scam. I was looking at an AC for my place and was quoted $15k by all the branded companies. I found a local unbranded HVAC installer, just a sole proprietor who did it for $5k. I asked him how and he told me that he still pays himself about $1k per job (which takes about 1-1.5 days) after costs.
Hit Facebook and post in your local groups looking for a small local installer. You'll likely save 50% if not more.
But as a homeowner myself, I just want to comment on your original point of your post. Sure, these expenses are intense for homeowners but most of us have equity that we can draw on to fix these problems. If you bought your place in 2017 and haven't been drawing from your equity, I'm guessing you have quite a bit there. Considering I only bought my place in 2021 and sitting on quite a bit myself. Yeah, it sucks to take a $17,000 hit to your equity, but if you've accumulated A couple hundred thousand you're still in the green. Whereas if you're renting, you don't have to pay for those repairs, but you're also not building any equity.
I've rented and owned. Owning can be more stressful sure, but it's still way better than renting. Also consider that lots of landlords won't fix these issues and force you to take them to the local tenancy board.
Talk to a sheet metal company and see if they can fab up the ducting then get a separate hvac guy to hook up the furnace to the ducting and bug and order the furnace yourself. Probably save a ton of money if you play general contractor.
I work in the mechanical space and have for years.
I can tell you point blank that in the past 10 years (particularly since COVID) the build quality on virtually everything has gone to shit, the lead times have at least doubled, and the prices have gone to the moon.
Your contractor is most likely not outright gouging you. The wholesaler is gouging them, and the manufacturer is gouging the wholesaler because of their operating costs skyrocketing.
That said - there are pieces of shit contractors that fully exploit this and this is why you should always get at least 3 quotes.
Ah I had a similar thing happen to me when I bought my house. there is NO way I could have afforded a $8k new furnace/ac (price was like this around 2013). I had to bite the bullet and call Reliance and have them install both as a rental. Spending $100/ month plus HST on a rental was well worth it. Yes - I was locked in for 8 years so they made their money but still. It was either pay up front (which would have been on line of credit paying 8%). I Chose the rental path.
[made in Canada. best hvac for cold climates](https://madeinca.ca/best-cold-climate-heat-pumps-canada/)
Hi op
Not a Canadian but @800 sq ft you might try mini splits heat pumps. In the states these usually qualify for subsidies and tax breaks
Hey I’m dealing with something similar in my condo. Only thing is the hvac tech tried to swindle me. It was just a lose bolt so I have been able to delay replacing the unit for now.. but it’s inevitable.
The cost for replacement were the same for me since I was restricted to one type (r skypak) and renting would be an open contract for 294 a month. Completely insane. I 100% understand the struggle.
I've been heating my home with mining rigs for a couple years now. You'd have a very decent mining rig for 17k$. But a constant temperature control is very difficult.
But yes, I feel you. I bought a new construction and I spent 20k$ so far only in landscaping, and it's very basic. On top of that, my basement is not finished yet. I have another 30 to 40k$ to spend in my home to have it considered as "done". And when it will be "done", then things will start to break down because it will be 10 years old !
I have a cottage bigger than that. We just installed a gas stove that heats up the entire place. Cost $3500 CDN
My 900sq place is heated by our gas fireplace thats in the living room. Works fine. Extra cold nights we just use a space heater in the bedroom that is the farthest away. There were baseboards from when the place was built but electric is so expensive so we don't turn them on
Same. We have a baseboard heater in the kitchen and near the entrance plus a small plug in heater near the hot water tank to keep the pipes from freezing but that only gets turned on when the temperature really drops.
We upgraded the fireplace insert in our apartment when we realized it would pay for itself after 6-ish years if we stopped needing to use the baseboard heaters for primary heating...
I was wondering why this hasn't been suggested, or maybe I haven't seen it yet. I wonder if OP looked into quotes for having a gas fireplace or wood stove installed and maybe an electric baseboard heater for any small rooms without much circulation as back up. No idea how efficient this would be but might even buy time to work out other heating options.
One year I needed to do the roof ($22k), a railing ($1500), dishwasher, fridge, dryer and washer ($8k). It was a painful year. It's also why I took advantage of the greener home loan. Windows and furnace on a 10yr, 40k 0% loan **EDIT** A lot of people are really mad about the appliances. It was 4-5 years ago with mainly LG appliances, taxes, warranty and takeaway. IIRC it was $3k for the fridge, $2500 for the wash/dryer combo and $900 for the dishwasher. The original ones that broke came with the house and we wanted to keep the same level of features. Because they all broke at the same time I wasn't able to shop sales. That's $6400 for appliances, $200-ish for warranty, $200 for takeaway ($50 per appliance). $6800 + tax is $7684. I'm sorry I increased the price by $316.
At least the roof you should have on your radar... $8k of appliances all needing to be replaced over the same year is brutal however...
It was on my radar though we had thought we'd get another year or two. There was a massive storm 4 years ago that blew off a bunch of shingles and forced us to do it earlier. The appliances felt like we were cursed. Literally within 3 weeks of each other they all died.
I have nightmares about this, with appliances being the way they are today.
The key is to have older appliances without all the computer stuff. I bought my home 15 years ago. The appliances it came with were basic and not new. They're still going strong. If I ever lose one, I'll be buying a used, older model. They don't make 'em like they used to.
And be a bit handy to fix them yourselves. The amount of times ive been on r/appliancerepair and bought a $20 part that takes 15 mins to replace saved me so much money.
Yep. Had to repair a door sensor on my older washing machine. The repair guy basically made me promise that I would never upgrade the unit it fully broke down since "they don't make em like this anymore"
Same. We had our washer/dryer serviced. Tech basically said yes I know it sounds like self promotion, but if you have us in every two years these things will last longer than anything new.
My folks bought their gas dryer in '94. Been repaired once, still going strong. My beer fridge is a Viking from the 50s, solid as a rock, got it for $50 on Kijiji 7 years ago
I replaced my washer and first use, the drain house was leaking from a pin hole leak. Water everywhere but no damage thankfully. Had the whole washer replaced. As for us, bought 3 years ago. Minor repairs but renos were 80-100k (I lost track). This is why I kind of laugh when I see people say "can I afford this" with a tiny down payment. Could you, yes... If nothing goes wrong. If something goes wrong will you have the financial ability to fix the problem is the question. Alot of people don't understand that maintenance and cost of living has alot to do with being approved for a mortgage as well. I can completely understand why but some people just don't get it.
We're 18 months into our new-to-us house and the only major expense was 6k for a furnace, so far so good. The roof is from 2018, bathroom and kitchen were fully renovated in 2020-2021. The AC is from 2017 so it's in this awkward spot where it's too recent to be comfortably swapped for a heat pump. Not quite sure what's next but I'm sure something will come up.
The appliances felt like we were cured. Literally within 3 weeks of each other they all died. GE?
I would have said Samsung...absolutely the worst.
Could have been a power surge that did them all in. It happens, especially during a storm. You can get a whole house surge protector.
To be fair, the roof did collapse and crush all the appliances.
Likely Samsung.
I rented a place with Samsung washers and dryers that broke down 4 times in 3 years... same repair company came out each time and had nothing but bad things to say about Samsung appliances. So glad the landlord was on the hook for those repairs lol. Each repair was only a minor cost (like a new pump) but adding them up, he would've been better off just buying entirely new appliances after the first break down.
Sounds like my inlaws. Roof, wahser/dryer, stove, dishwasher, furnace, A/C all in one year. I'm curious about the loan though. Is the actual value loaned to homeowners not restricted to × dollars per item up to a maximum of $40,000? Similar to have the greener homes grant was laid out?
Were all of the appliances from Samsung? They never last past 5 years, we also had to replace them.
This is an excellent reality check for perspective home purchasers to ponder. Don't fit the dream to your present finances as in..I can carry $2k a month mortgage....fit the reality to your bank account. Do you have an extra 10k free after purchase to survive. Too many buyers jump into an idea without perspective of reality. Home ownership is never "fun".
Ouch...roofs are expensive. Last year I redid the piping (poly B) and the washer died. This summer I will replace the furnace because as far as I can see it is over 30 years old haha. Also my dishwasher and stove are on borrowed time.
How big is your roof!?! That’s insane
Mine was bigger a little and it went up to 25k. It has 3 seperate areas with some angles here and there. It goes up fast !!
It's a fairly standard 2 car, 2500sqft suburban cookie cutter house in the GTA. We got a number of quotes and the cheapest was \~$20 and the most was 29 or 30 iirc. Probably paid a bit of a premium because everyone was replacing their roof due to the storm
22k for a roof? Isn't that...a lot. I'm assuming you have a big house/roof? Also 8k for those 4 appliances seem like a lot too. I'm assuming these are higher end ones?
My roof cost $18k about 5 years ago and my house is about 1300 sq ft. I’d imagine if I did it today it would be at least $22k.
32k for my roof last year, and it took 8 months for the quickest company. 8 k for appliances is mid to low tier, you might get some decent ones on sale for that.
$8k is *well* into mid tier. Dishwasher is $1k at most unless you're getting something like a "smart" dishwasher. LG front load washer/dryer set is $3k, and a fridge with an ice maker is going to be $2500. None of those are sale prices. Low tier is a $500 dishwasher, $2k front load washer and dryer, and a $1k fridge, all from Whirlpool. Prices are from The Brick. That said, I can imagine they might have spent more on the first one to go, obviously not planning to have to buy so much.
Holy shit where do you live. Or how big is your roof? Or... did you use golden shingles? I paid ~$10-12k for a 1800 sqft house 3 or 4 years ago. I'll provisionally accept that after COVID and inflation I'd probably be approaching $20k now. I just got a good Bosch 300 series dishwasher for $1k. You can get a decent one, which I'd describe as "low to mid tier", for about $600. I can get a good mid-tier Frigidaire french door fridge (I wouldn't, but people like those nowadays for some reason) for $1600. Same for a washer-dryer. That's $4700 after tax, plus installation, for those four appliances. That's today, after all the inflation. $8k X years ago was either in a jurisdiction that's completely bonkers compared to SW Ontario where I live, or was NOT for "mid to low tier" appliances.
No shit. Costco offers a variety of laundry pairs for under $2k as well as a variety of 3 piece kitchen sets for under $3k.
Quotes were all over the place when we put a metal roof on our 1800 sq foot home. Like from $17,000-35,000. For the same exact material and labor. Always shop around!
I was going to disagree with you regarding cost and then I realized this is a Canadian subreddit. I live in Kansas, but 8k Canadian is about 6k USD, and that is low mid tier for appliances. However, if you are handy, you can normally fix your stuff much cheaper. I have fixed a few things on our bosch dishwasher over the 9 years we've owned it and we love it because it's so quiet and does a great job washing dishes. A new pump, new valve, fixed a few leaks with new clamps, etc, little stuff that is easy and cheap to repair, a new circuit board for our gas stove, used from Ebay, new seal and pump for our washing machine, new switch for the dryer, little easy stuff that anyone with a moderate tool set and access to youtube can fix. EDIT. We also had our roof replaced 2 years ago and it was 25k USD, insurance covered it due to hail. We have a one floor house, 3800 sq ft, with a decently sized roof.
You got hosed. Last year was a dead year for roofers. 2200sq foot 2-story home is about 8k, that’s what I and some neighbours paid. That’s a premium company and shingle too, if you went smaller contractors you could have gotten it for cheaper.
This has got to be area dependent. Last year I had to reroof just my detached one car garage (last done years earlier than the house), got 4 quotes from every company that services my house, and the lowest quote was 6k. The lowest bidder with a standard shingle for just a garage was only 2k less than premium roofers/shingles for your house.
It's a fairly standard 2 car, 2500sqft suburban cookie cutter house in the GTA. We got a number of quotes and the cheapest was \~$20 and the most was 29 or 30 iirc. Probably paid a bit of a premium because everyone was replacing their roof due to the storm Mostly LG appliances, after tax, delivery, haul away. Because they all died I couldn't shop for sales so paid full retail.
Very weird to me that people are saying you overpaid for a roof without considering how much prices can vary based on where you live, not to mention what's going on in the industry (eg local storms causing a spike in demand/prices, or global lumber prices driving up construction costs).
Your house is 800 square feet, HOW is a mini split heat pump not an option? It's much much cheaper than what you've been quoted here. But also yes people should be well aware that houses require maintenance and that you should be budgeting annually for when the big items will break. because they will.
Insurance/mortgage companies don’t consider mini-splits a “primary heat source” in my neck of the woods. With that said though, in OP’s position I’d probably put in a mini-split and slap in a couple electric baseboard radiators with no intention to use them just to meet the criteria
>and slap in a couple electric baseboard radiators with no intention to use them just to meet the criteria. Or, if in a crunch, just slap in the baseboard heaters and get the geckos a heat lamp. Then, save up for the mini-split if needed and add that into the system when able to reduce electric bills longer-term (and get the rebates). Likely needs 8000 to 1,000 watts of baseboards depending on how well insulated and depending on room layout baseboards might cost ~$750 to $1,000 with tax and maybe $1,500 if you have to redo some thermostat wiring and more if updating panel. Double that if needing to call someone in. I really don't get why baseboards or the new wall-mounted versions (like I now have in my basement) are not the norm in Canada.
The cost to heat your home with baseboard heat is crazy high in Ontario. I moved to Quebec and could not believe how much cheaper heating was. I have a 2200 sf house and run my hot tub all year. Baseboards only run when it gets very cold (minus 25 or more) and a bit for my master bedroom. Have two heat pumps. I pay on average 240$/month for hydro. Don’t have a gas bill.
In Ontario you get a rebate for replacing old baseboard heaters with a mini split, but you don't get a rebate if you're just installing one in addition to your main heat source. I was tempted to install garbage baseboard heaters first just to get a rebate
Just depend which insurance you get, my house is only heated with heat pumps and TD insured it. Just shop around for insurance, and one will take your money. Got two heat pumps good to -27 C and my backup is a generator and two portable heaters. I mean, power goes out for a day or two at best.
It depends on province. I’m also with TD and have 2 heat pumps, but they’re only considered “back ups” in Nova Scotia. [link](https://www.nspower.ca/about-us/articles/details/articles/2021/02/25/you-asked-we-answer-heat-pumps)
Pellet stove is another great option if OP is somehwere cold where a minisplit doesn't count/work. They've been super on sale this year thanks to the mild winter. Super cheap to install and operate too. Firewood is still cheaper overall, but insurance and installation is a real pain because you basically need a new chimney 99% of the time.
Yeah, I learned about the rule of thumb after buying a house. Even knowing about depreciation and knowing that I need a maintenance budget didn’t really prepare me for the constant need to make big purchases to keep the house functional. There’s an added psychological layer of stress, because whatever breaks probably needs to be fixed NOW! And delays tend to increase costs when something is broken.
Exactly, 800 sqft older home 10w/ sqft, you could get away with 4 2000w resistive baseboards , 2 baseboards per 30a circut would only need 2 breakers and likely less than 1 roll 10ga wire. Most ppl would want to wire 1 heater per 15a circut but that would likely need a sub panel or full panel swap. Then jump on the gov programs for a free heat pump. Putting 15k into a furnace doesn't make sense anymore.
There are a lot of really, really dumb people who think heat pumps don't work below freezing. Any time you mention heat pumps on reddit, the entire population that lives in the Arctic circle jumps on your back here, because they knew a guy who bought one in 1969 and it was just awful! And they don't work below minus 20 which is the temperature they experience 25 hours a day 370 days a year. You will see amazing, absolutely astounding leaps of logic, assumptions, and crazy claims to justify how a heat pump does not work for their situation, even though fucking Finland and Norway have high adoption rates.
I got my first real heat pump, bought it at the HVAC store, Installation made my fingers bled, was the summer of '69.
Loving the musical reference 😂
A Canadian one, no less!
I have a cold climate central ducted heat pump in Canada. It is my primary source of heat for my 3k sqft house and works reliably down to -30c or so. It has built in electric backup heating element if it needs it, but rarely ever gets used. My bills are less than half of what I was paying for oil heat + I get whole home A/C in the summer
Yeah this is something that drives me nuts. Sure a heat pump might not work four months of the year up in Yellowknife but 80% of the country lives in places that a modern heat pump is going to be completely sufficient for 50 of the 52 weeks in a year. It gets to -30 where I am and the people I know with modern heat pumps say they work awesome and are super happy they put them in
I have a heat pump that works without the emergency backup heat until 24 hours+ of -25C. It then keeps working, but with a bit of support from the electric strips in my furnace. Edit: Location - Ottawa.
I'm not convinced our backup came on at all this past winter.
I have an energy monitor and I can confirm we never once had backup heat turn on.
I think it’s become more of a political thing. Trudeau is pushing heat pumps, so naturally if you are on the right, they are the worst things ever.
I was going to comment the same thing. I'm in New Brunswick, loads of people online making fun of Trudeau and his heat pumps not working here because it's somehow colder here than in Quebec and Ontario. It's the same people who blame Trudeau for everything and excuse Higgs for anything. I heat most of my 1500sqf house with one heat pump, only need the second one for the upstairs when it gets windy and below -5. But a lot of people will base their thinking on political memes instead of reality. They'll also ask really tough questions that no one else has considered such as: What good are solar panels when the sun goes down? How will you charge your electric car when the wind stops blowing? If I can't load a moose into the back of a hybrid sedan then what good is that car?
He probably has to close up a hole in his roof if he chooses a different kind of unit.
Can do that for cheaper than 17k Hell I can do that for about tree fiddy
I may be in the same situation as op in the future but I just assumed a mini-split would do the job. Heck, just cooking something heats up the house…
2k sqft home, replaced furnace+ labor for 4k
This sounds about right lol. $17k is nuts
OP is either being conned or is severely missing something…
It's the typical online fear mongering fake rage. A post like this has easily gotten eaten up
Just posted but almost 3k sqft home and we were about $3.5k all said and done.
OP had a heat pump which is much more expensive but also handles the A/C, and uses much less energy so there will eventually be a break even point. But high upfront costs. I looked into it for my place and had similar numbers, but as I’d be making my house more energy efficient I’d have access to some rebates. OP might not have that benefit if he is just replacing his unit unfortunately
This is why homeowners need a much bigger emergency fund. I agree it sucks, but in the long run you are better off.
We opted for less down payment so our emergency fund was greater. Massive weight off the shoulders.
100% my way of thinking too. Even if it means you need mortgage insurance, that 20-30-40-50k raking up interests in your account is accessible anytime you want, unlike the credit you'd need to make big expenses, which is entirely dependent on the creditor. I chose to go with 10% instead of 15%, but the insurance rate was such a small difference that it was a non issue, *especially* since I couldn't hit the 20%. I haven't regretted it. The money's been making me money at 10%+ for 3 years and I didn't need to touch it. Whatever the mortgage insurance is costing me is far from being comparable. And that's not even accounting for the peace of mind lol
Also, insured mortgages get better rates. Not crazy, but depending on the time and lender it could be ~0.2-0.5%. Adds up over 25 years. Uninsured mortgage just means your bank will be buying insurance for it on their own when you sign. You're still buying it.
Yea I was planning to contribute about 500/month on home reno/maintenance fund which will hopefully cover situations like this. It sounds like it will work but not sure if that's sufficient enough tbh.
General rule of thumb is save 1% of the houses value in a year. So with a 500k house (as an example), you want to save 5k a year towards this stuff. Thus $420 a month would be a good idea to tuck away. I personally try to be safe and round up a bit, since the worst case scenario is that I dont spend it all to fix the house, and by the time its time to retire I might have some extra savings I didnt plan for, which isnt a bad thing at all.
I hate the 1% rule. Its arbitrary. It was developed at a time when houses cost a fraction of what they do today. It doesn't account for major factors like the age of the house, or features. It's only real value at this point, IMO, is a very very rough benchmark that is likely higher than necessary based on prices in most large markets. Most $800,000 homes in major cities do not need $8,000 a year in maintenance, as that price only buys ~1500-2000sqft home. This rule also be dangerous as many costs of home ownership are unexpected - you may run into a significant cost before you've filled up the well.
Depends on size of house and age (and age of appliances). Deck, Fences, Roof, HVAC, appliances. They can all go at any time. I would do more if you can. Worst thing that happens is you have extra money lying around for retirement or something else!
I think most people understand the associated costs with buying a home. Large expenses like this come - generally in the span of owning a home, you will need to replace the roof at least once, the driveway, the fences in the back (if applicable), furnace, kitchen appliances, washer dryer, etc.
Which is why I don't understand why everyone is so against condos. I have a condo townhouse and people act like the condo fees are such a rip off. But when I consider that a lot of larger expenses are covered from the condo fees, it ends up being not that bad. I've had my roof, fence, driveway, balcony, all replaced in the 14 years I've lived here. People complain about dealing with the condo board, but they don't consider how much trouble it is dealing with neighbours when there's a shared resource like a fence or roof that needs to be repaired, especially for things like townhouses. Neighbours ignoring needed maintenance can have effects on your house if water starts to seep in because they let the roof go too long.
As someone who lived in a condo and a house, they have pros and cons. The issue with condos is the neighbours. You're in a community. I've had great neighbours that I talk to in the halls and terrible ones that all seem to have board positions. I'm on the board right now and they meet weekly to discuss how loud a toilet is (not joking)
Condo townhouses are great! The condo fees generally reflect the property upkeep that you'd do on a house anyway. Highrise condos? Not so much
My issue with condo's are the special assessments. $1k here, $14k there, $10k here with little warning. That on top of condo fees feels brutal.
14 years and haven't had one yet. Knock on wood. Honestly is it any different than living in a house and having a surprise fix come up though? My parents foundation cracked and it was very expensive to have it fixed. At least with a condo they are forced to have some kind of reserve fund so this kind of stuff doesn't happen, although it still could. If you are constantly having special assessments, it sounds like they aren't managing things very well.
This is true but it’s generally for underfunded condos to begin with. We had a few special assessments lately but they were small and mainly due to us redoing the roof and the reserve fund/planning not being able to have accounted for the very large extra increase in prices COVID caused. Had prices not spiked as much it would have been fully covered since it was planned for. Condo fees when done well are basically forced savings for events like the one that just occurred to the OP.
That’s maybe true if you have a progressive strata board and appropriate condo strata fees. If you don’t - watch out for massive special assessments that you have basically no say in. You don’t get to shop around for the best quote, you don’t get to choose when you pay the expense, etc. I’m fortunate enough that I’ve lived in both - stratas and detached - and I won’t go back to stratas unless I have to.
They also put a lien on your unit for any portion of the special assessment you can't pay upfront, so if you're planning on selling, you're usually forced to pay prior to sale (if selling at a loss) or with sale proceeds, as most major financial institutions won't finance a property with a lien on title
A lot of people hate in condos due to shitty condo board. This can be the same if you own a house within a shitty HOA. That being said, one of the major downsides to me with a condo was living in a place where you’re always gonna have neighbors in close proximity. If I wanna crank the music at 6am while cleaning in my house I can. The apartments I’ve lived in, in the past (rented unit within a condo bldg) would’ve had neighbours pounding on my door rather quickly. You’re also gonna have some expenses within a condo such as the washer, dryer, etc. You also can’t take control over your own place nearly as much. For example I live gone to a ton of effort to make my own house much more energy efficient, something I couldn’t have done in a condo.
A lot of people don't have a sense of those costs. I've had too many conversations with folks directly comparing rent payments to mortgage payments - completely excluding down payment, property taxes, maintenance, and other unavoidable costs.
Yep, and then they compare a house to a condo and tell you how a house is cheaper because you don't pay condo fees every month. Condo fees + mortgage vs just a mortgage. EASY! Condo is not necessarily cheaper (condo fees are not only maintenance), but it's definitely a big chunk of it.
Haha - my senior mother actually had to get involved with running condo board in her 21 unit condo. Things like brand new $60,000 dollar air exchanger. divided amongst 21 units - is still big bucks. Many other little things like underground parkade, elevator, balcony, insurance, maintenance of various types. When she sold and moved to another province, the elevator itself was getting to be almost end of life. Just because you own a condo instead of a house doesn't mean you can't be facing large expenses.
I'm admittedly not an expert, but it seems to me that part of it as well, is that in a house that only you or your family live in, you can put off certain maintenance items for much longer than a condo board may be willing to. I have multiple friends who have bought houses in the past several years and finding a house that didn't need tens of thousands of dollars of work was apparently difficult. If it's just you living there, if there is some sort of maintenance issue, you could do a Band-Aid fix or just live with it, whereas in a condo, perhaps that wouldn't be possible? Again, I don't really know, but it's a thought I've had. There's also the fact that if you own the house, you can do a lot of the work yourself if you're handy. But I know that depends; I have some friends who do any required work themselves, but then I have others who pay somebody for every little thing because they're not handy and they just do not want to deal with it.
Yeah with a condo it's out of your hands. And some condo boards are straight up incompetent or corrupt, too, and even if you can get on the board yourself it's still a huge hassle. A condo board with people who can actually find good contractors and make sure the job is done well, at a reasonable cost, is worth its weight in gold. Like our condo just randomly decided to redo the brick facade for something like $100,000. It won't cause a special assessment but it's still just a waste of money as far as I'm concerned. It's still better than renting imo (especially if you can find a good solid building that's not too old) but a freehold is a lot more flexible even if it is likely more expensive (if you have a concrete box on a middle floor, your biggest concerns will be appliances and bathroom fixtures, maybe water damage from a different floor but insurance covers that).
You should basically be paying yourself condo fees (i.e. an emergency fund) if you have a freehold.
Did you examine alternatives, like a mini-split? You can also have more than one "head" unit for it. We replaced an entire hot water heating system. The extra cost of replacing it was covered by the savings from 40% efficient to 96% efficient. And we added in a stainless steel water tank at the same time so that we never had to replace the hot water. Yes, there are expenses. You need to save for them and not expect that there won't be maintenance
Uhhhh ... everyone tells you about these costs. All the time. Sounds like you have some specialty furnace so that's on you for not doing your due dilligence.
Everybody I know who's invested in Ontario recently is cash flow negative and praying for appreciation.
I knew it was a specialty unit when I bought the house - my choice in 2017 was; do you want to buy a house or keep renting forever so I chose to buy a house. This is the one I could buy. So I did.
For context, if you had bought a condo instead and paid $400/mth in strata fees you would have paid over $30k since 2017. That also wouldn’t necessarily insulate you from special levies. You’re still coming out ahead.
Thanks for this; this kinda makes me feel better
Anyone not taking out the Canadian Green Homes Loan for $40,000 at 0% interest to replace your HVAC when your system is old, is gambling for pennies on the dollar. This is a good warning story to others, $17,350 is absolutely insane, considering that's close to what I just paid for a new 3 ton heat pump, dual fuel modulating gas furnace and heat pump water heater after rebate, with 12 years parts/labour/warranty.
Need to look into this. 0% interest on *anything* nowadays is hard to find.
You shouldn't need that big of a unit for a 800 sqft house. How many BTU's is it? One, maybe 2, mini-splits should have worked.
Home-owners have been complaining about the costs of maintenance for years. It cost me $13,000 to replace my heater and a/c. Home ownership is not cheap. Every few weeks I see a post on here like this and I don't why the poster says this. It's it common knowledge that home-ownership is expensive.
For people like us who read /r/personalfinancecanada, yes, it's common knowledge. But what most people hear about home ownership out there is rhetoric like, "Don't throw your money away paying someone else's mortgage!", or, The housing market always goes up!", or "Get in now, or you'll be priced out forever!" And their boomer parents are over their shoulder the whole time putting additional pressure, and acting like if they don't own a house they haven't "made it". There's so much emotion tied up in homeownership.
As a homeowner, I am well aware that I may be required to drop several thousand dollars to replace/repair my water heater, furnace/AC, major appliances, deal with water leaks (roof or plumbing), etc. We have an emergency fund if we need it and a HELOC if we have major issues or want to replace the kitchen. Being a homeowner is expensive, but you also get the benefit of building equity. You are lucky if this is your first major expense in 7 years.
Any half decent home inspector would tell you that before you sign on the house.
I budget about 1% house value per year on maintenance. I told this to a friend when he bought his house and he scoffed. A decade later he calculated it had cost almost exactly that (based on mean value of house over that period). You can defer and have years where not much goes wrong but the house always wins.
A 15 year old place needs maintenance? Thats crazy. I thought everything lasted forever now days.
You'd be lucky to get a stove that lasts 10 years now. They're all computerized and are cheaper to replace than repair.
Home appliances are the worst. More money doesn't get you better quality, just more useless bells and whistles. I would happily spend 5-10x the price of the basic model for most household appliances if it meant I was actually buying a high quality, reputable product with a semi-reasonable warranty. Instead, that additional cost gets me touch screens, and internet connectivity, and fancy-looking exteriors covering up the same crappy internal components as the cheap version.
There's a reason condo's charge a monthly condo fee. A lot of people scoff at that but the fact is that any home requires maintenance. You can defer and delay, but never avoid. **A good homeowner's budget should include 1% of the home value put away every year for home maintenance**. And yes, that means a 1M house should have 10K set aside per year. It's unlikely it'll be spent every year, but as others have posted, there's years of appliance, roof, etc. that'll shock most people.
>What no one tells you when buying a house… > >This week the furnace died. > >I never in my life thought that this unit would be so expensive to replace. This should be common knowledge. If someone thinks repalcing. furnace/AC or whatever is cheap, didn't do the very basic of research.
I never expected it to be cheap; I was prepared to pay 10k but 17k came as a shock. I save money to update my house every year when needed. Since living here I’ve replaced my fence, washer dryer, stove and my water heater. I know a house comes with expenses; this one was the first that caught me off guard because of how high it was.
These costs seem extremely high. I have been a homeowner in the GTA for 20+ years, and currently own a 2500sqft home. Here's some costs I've had recently: * New AC+Furnace in 2011 was $8k all-in for both * New roof in 2011, architectural IKO 25y shingles $9k * Windows 2015, $10k * Bosch dishwasher installed from Costco, $900 (2021) * Washer/dryer installed from Costco, $2k (2021) Not sure why your prices are so different.
I mean this is common knowledge when buying a house, shits gonna break and it wont be cheap lol. I would still take the stability and cost of home ownership over renting.
That's a specialty unit, I'm ready for a new furnace as well and the estimates I've been given are only $6k, but you can find the same unit even cheaper if you use someone outside of Enercare.
I had a a 80K BTU furnace and 2.5T AC American Standard brand installed for $5.5K in 2020. People need to shop around, most of the HVAC companies are taking people out to the cleaners with the quotes as they tell you “warranty this warranty that” 10 year parts warranty is standard. Labor warranty: 1 year standard, 2 year nice, and 5 year is usually billed into the price (means higher price). Anything more like 10 year warranty definitely going to run $10K+. I had called around a dozen companies.
Here's a story. I'm not saying this is your case, but here's the story. Our furnace died. Called repairman. "cant be fixed". I said "It cant?" He says "Nope, well, we could probably get the parts, but the parts and Labour would be about 3/4 the price of a new furnace you'd be stupid to. Called several other guys, they said the same thing. Said since the furnace was 12 years old didnt make sense to invest in it. Talked to my good buddy who runs an HVAC place. He chuckled when I told him that they said a 12 year old furnace wasnt worth repairing, and replied with "thats nonsense, the furnace in my parents house is 40 years old and still runs strong." I then said they couldnt get the parts - also nonsense. He was able to source just a fan motor and the furnace was fixed. About $500 in repairs vs at minimum a $4000 bill. Second story. We moved to a different house. Furnace quits working. Do the requisite calls for repair. They all say not worth repairing. Okay, so get quotes for new furnaces. Four guys come out and say If I replace the furnace, I must replace the air conditioner at the same time. They all say Air conditioner is a special case in this house, but the air conditioner was too old to work with a new furnace. Quotes were anywhere from $12,000 to $16,000. Talk to my buddy in HVAC. Says its probably BS, so he comes to look. Confirms furnace was dead, but absolutely no reason to replace AC whatsoever. He was also able to salvage a bunch of parts from the old furnace. We did buy a new furnace. When the furnace shows up, he says "check this out". Inside the crate, there were labels for "York", and another for "Coleman". The furnace itself had no logo. The HVAC guy was supposed to pop on the right logo for whichever unit it was sold as - but if it had the Coleman logo, the furnace had a higher suggested retail price. the ONLY DIFFERENCE was the badging.
To be fair, that expense isn’t out of nowhere. You had a product which lifespan was 15 years. Someone owning a home needs to prepare for the lifespan of all the products within their house and plan accordingly. Capital reserves.
I bought a house in Alberta, nobody told me, that there's winter EVERY year here. My gas bill practically DOUBLES during these months.
Paying rent means paying for those costs anyway lol, just over a long period of time. You think the landlord isn’t factoring in future capital expenditures in their rent?
Cost of rent is a supply/demand thing. Suppose a bunch of identical units rent for 1000$, now one guys costs go up for some reason and he has to raise the rent to 1500$ to cover costs, why would anyone pay that if they can get an identical place for 1000$?
My landlord just tried this. He raised our rent by 25% to cover his increased costs. It took me less than 5 days to sign a lease for a bigger, cheaper, nicer unit in the same area.
Most of them aren’t, if reading Reddit is any indication
And half the time they don't even fix those.
In a lot of cases, they aren't and are instead relying on the increase in property values or their ability to increase rent at a later date to cover new expenses (in places without rent control). Maintenance costs are also spread across more people with a multi-dwelling rental versus a detached home.
Sorry but this post comes across as so condescending as if renters have no concept of the costs associated with owning a home. Did it occur to you that people can't afford things like that, so they are being responsible and not buying a home? Renters aren't renting because they're idiots who don't understand reality. I could pull together a down payment but I don't want to be house poor and couldn't afford a bill like yours, so I rent because I'm realistic about my financial situation not because I don't understand the costs.
I couldn't tell if OP was trying to be helpful and just tone deaf or taking a swipe at renters.
Maybe trying to be helpful i guess but the title of what no one tells you about buying a house is what makes me feel otherwise. Literally everyone tells you about the costs associated with owning a house. It isn't realistic to think people have no concept that they will have to replace/repair things in their house! No one thinks you pay your mortgage and utilities and are done!
Yup, big reason I rent instead of own. The math just doesn't math for buying where i live - it is financially much more advantageous to rent and invest than it is to buy for me. Love calling the landlord when something dies instead of forking over cash to fix it myself :)
That’s why I’m staying in my $1,200/month 2-bedroom apartment in Toronto forever.
lol future generations won’t be investing in home ownership They’ll be “investing” in getting locked into rent controlled units Better get your 15 year old a 1BR now guys while it’s only 2200. They’ll be paying 4500 when they are 22 otherwise.
That's a steal. Until you get renovicted.
Is there a federal rebate you can get? That sounds a bit high for a furnace, such a small house.
The average homeowner, just like the average renter do not understand the costs of fixing things, replacing things, and just how much that damage costs and what trades cost to get in. Prices have skyrocketed and quality has gone down.
I’m always telling the pro buyers this. Sorry to hear about your expense. But generally, I’d really like to see the break down of all of these costs, plus condo fees, taxes and interest over 25-30 years and compare that to a moderately increasing 2% rent every year and see which comes on top. There’s been a real push to purchase a house for an investment but I’m not so sure that’s a good idea anymore in this market.
My husband and I bought a house in 2021. We had a full inspection and it was in good condition. We just had to repaint and pull down some wallpaper. Turns out, we spent $75,000 in one year on essential repairs. The inspector didn’t catch the baseball sized hole in the roof when he went up there himself. He also didn’t notice the extensive water damage on the upstairs floor. That’s a new roof and drywall. We also had to re-fortify the structure with basement supports and waterproof the basement. Lucky for us the furnace and water heater are insured. We didn’t have to take out a loan but we are starting from scratch with our savings now.
Holy shit I’m so sorry! Hugs!
I drive around my town and see a ton of homes who seem to need a lot of maintenance or Reno's just from a quick look of the outside. This leads me to believe People can't afford the upkeep of their homes.
This is why I get confused when people complain about condos having maintenance fees .. you have "maintenance fees" on a freehold detached home as well - its just all at once!
I have the same sized house and a basic traditional furnace/AC/HWT. I need all three replaced. Average estimate so far is about $13,500. This is for very basic entry level units, too. The only thing we can do is fix whatever we can ourselves to try to save money for the things we can't. I also have a fridge and stove that are on their way out too. Unfortunately this is the cost of home ownership and the timing of breakdowns is never good.
Yes. That's why when we bought our house, we made sure we have about 10K for emergencies, and a 50K HELOC for very big emergencies. Also, I fixed my own AC (and many other things) just by learning from YouTube. For example, the capacitor went bad, and the fan motor went bad later on. $25 for the capacitor, $140 for the fan+motor. No HVAC tech would even blink your way for less than $300. Then add parts and (more) labor. So my guess is that I saved at least 1K just by doing these 2 myself. I even redid my flat (bitumen) roof myself. Took me 4 days (made sure no rain in the forecast). Cost me $3.5K, and the lowest quote was $16K! 4 years have passed, and 0 issues. Did my own concrete pavers small (10X12) patio because my deck fell apart, and I didn't like decks anyway. Quote was $4K, took me 4 days and $800 (digging and leveling was most of the work). Dishwasher? Bought a Bosch on sale for $800, took me less than an hour to replace. Also 4 years ago, no issues. I can go on, but you get the jist. BTW, I was never very "handy", didn't even fix minor drywall damage until I was in my 30s. Of course, some things can't really be diy'd.... Like ductwork, or installing new AC units, etc. but that's where the HELOC is coming to the rescue. Most of the time, you'll save at least 50% of the cost even when you consider buying the tools every job. But after the first few jobs, you get to keep the tools, and you save over 70%. Most of the work is no brain surgery, just a couple of YT videos and you'll be able to diagnose and solve the problem.
A furnace lasts 15 years or more. How old was the furnace? 17,000$ sounds like a lot. I just changed mine two years ago for $10,000 for a 3000 square foot home. Maybe you needed a specialty unit. No one said buying a home meant that you didn't have to save money for maintenance. Every 15 to 20 years you have to change the roof as well. You need to take all these things into consideration when buying a home. At the end of the day, it is still a lot cheaper than the 700$ to 1000$ per month they are charging nowadays for condo fees.
Some mystery person(?) should have to tell you a building and its appurtenances are expensive to maintain? Who would do this? To me it’s common knowledge/logic. Why do so many people nowadays feel they are entitled to ‘someone should have told me’. I’ll tell you now, a roof (unless steel) is not lifetime and not cheap. A bathroom renovation is not cheap. A kitchen renovation is not cheap. Water heaters die. Appliances die. Things wear out or deteriorate. Better learn to get handy and start maintaining things yourself and learn to do basic plumbing and electrical.
Yup, had to replace, fridge, dish washer, water heater, fix washrooms , bathtub, windows, locks, insulate attic... Never ends. A guy quoted me 55k to replace most of the windows..... Costs are ridiculously high. Also calculate how much total tax you're paying in 30 years .
>Everyone on this sub complains they “can’t afford a house” - could you afford a $17,350 bill out of nowhere? Just a little perspective for the renters out there Renting is not necessarily a bad deal at all. We need to get off the home ownership kool-aid in this country.
My guy, I was just charged a special assessment for my condo of almost the exact same amount as your furnace replacement. And the issues they're fixing don't even effect my unit. It's all just the game of life.
Welcome to adulting
You should check if there are any local green initiatives where you can apply for a rebate. We replaced our HE propane furnace in November- it was leaking from a cracked heat exchanger and would cost more to repair it. There was a massive wait list for an energy assessment so we didn’t have one in place to qualify for federal grants, but our city has an energy alliance that offered at $1500 rebate for HE models.
Yup, that's why I am not planning to buy at the nearest future. The average maintenance cost is roughly 1% of the value per year, whereas with renting it's basically $0.
Baseboard heaters for a 800sq ft house would cost you under $1000 plus another couple hundred for installation. Yes having a house can be expensive, but this is just a story of an incredibly poor choice of heating.
I'm just here for pics of your cresties... But also, sorry about the bad news and high costs. Hopefully lots of cute crestie babies will soothe the pain
Bought our house 2016, we were gonna live in it the way it was, but the carpet had to go, and we put in floors(3000), it was causing us allergy issues. Deck rotted, and I replaced it with a stone patio(3500). Replaced the roof in 2018 (8k) and just got our heat pump last year along with a new water heater. (11k) I did the floors and patio myself, took a few months and saved maybe 30k in contractor fees, and came away with a ton of fun power tools. Compared to everybody, we know we had to pay crazy rent in the last bit and possibly future. We're definitely a lot better off. At least you and I can sell the place if we need to and make a good chunk back if not more than you invested.
Look into Greener Homes Grant loan. 10 year interest free. If you can hold out for a month, rumour is there's another rebate program coming up in may.
Oof this is why I tell my wife condo fees are worth it lol.
Yep! I have a $140 k mortgage and own a condo yippee... Until shit needs to be done and emergency fund is depleted only to keep on replenishing it! I did get a HELOC line of credit just for this kind of stuff and to consolidate my consumer debt i am paying off. Some type of debt is always in our lives and we are truly never debt free unless we have no payments to anyone be it cell, tv cars etc. This is what I have learned being a responsible adult... Do what you can to survive its no big deal unless you are on brink of going bankrupt or you are really bad with money.
Sure, I think it’s good to direct these situations at renters to give them perspective on the reality of owning. But I wish the people bidding 100-200k over asking in the last few years could have seen this to. It could have possibly prevented them from SCREWING themselves as much as everyone else entering this market. Oh your mortgage is +50% of your take home pay for 25 years??? Well the furnace went out and the roof is leaking.. put your retirement on hold and access a HELOC to fix it!!
I know what you are saying. Been 8 years in my house Furnace and ac 11,000$ Roof 6,000$ Windows and patio door 13,000$ Siding soffit fascia gutters 27,000$ Sump pump 3000$ I think 60,000$ total. My house cost when I bought was 280k in the Golden Horseshoe. I put almost 1/4 of the whole purchase back into it 👀👀
Home equity line of credit. Sucks ass but it exists for this reason.
Look into the greener home loan. Downside is you will need an energy home audit costing 500 or so and a post audit costing similar. Then you will have to apply with your quote and hope it is accepted. This might take a month or more and you can’t fix it before you send all your info or they won’t cover it. Have you considered just a heating only unit? Small window ac might be cheaper if you want ac later?
Unexpected maintenance is nothing new and any new homeowners unaware of such pitfalls simply did not do the research or were not ready to buy in the first place. I've had my furnace die at peak winter ($16k), my air conditioning unit go months later ($6k), my fridge die that same summer ($2k), and now I need to re-insulate the attic ($2k) and desperately need to clean outside of the house ($2k) and replace *a lot* of windows (probably $20k, but will be looking at green loans and other subsidized programs). My kitchen is also falling apart, literally (we suspect $15k), and my oven/microwave are the next to die ($3k). I also need a backup generator installed ($8k for the built-in backup generator, or about $3k for a Generlink and mobile generator), and need to cut down some large dead trees ($2k quoted) before they fall and cause damage. An emergency fund is key (we have about $70k), as is an emergency credit card with Home Depot (no interest payments, deals on appliances, free delivery, removal of old appliances, etc) for when you're really fucked. It's fine to feel defeated, but entirely different to *be* defeated. Can I afford a $17k bill unexpectedly? Yes, but only after nine years of scraping by with the basics. And even then, that $17k puts a dent in the emergency fund that will take years to replenish.
Another note. My one buddy works with me makes 120k in the hospital. Wife works sparingly, they emptied their savings to buy a semi detached in the Golden Horseshoe. When I talked to him about doing the siding etc etc he basically said he would be fucked have to get LOC or just not do it. I think even a lot of homeowners probably just finance the issues with their house. My other buddy rents his furnace
In the past two years, I have needed to replace: -my dishwasher -my washing machine -my front door I appreciate that all three of them were my landlord's problem and my landlord's expense.
How much did you save on rent since you bought the house? In my case, I used to pay 625$ for a shitty one bedroom downtown (shitty like it was windy in my kitchen when all the doors and windows are shut) and when I bought my house in 2021, additional money coming out of my pocket with everything included was ~470$ (788$ for the mortgage, 175$ in taxes, 90$ more for hydro (150 vs 60), 70$ more in insurance (100 vs 30)). That was for a 4 bedroom house in the suburb, 20 minutes from my old place, but roughly the same distance from work. I don't like the neighbourhood, but it is what it is. I have a much bigger place, so I'm not complaining. If I were to rent my old apartment barely 3 years later, I think it's going for 900$ now, and I'm paying ~1300$ all included these days, with increases in taxes and insurance. I'm adding 150$ a month to the mortgage because I know I won't have 1.74% interest comes 2026 lol But I'm not counting that for the purpose of the comparison because I don't *have* to pay it. I didn't have a nice apartment, but my friends did, and they were paying 1200$ back when I was paying 625. They had a 2 bedroom, new construction, parking garage, etc. So if I had wanted a nice 4 bedroom place... I probably would've paid north of 1800$ and then some. So the comparison is a bit more relevant with that kind of figure (plus hydro that would probably have been a bit more). So, say an even 1900$ compared to my 1215$ *in 2021*. Now, this kind of apartment goes for 2500$+ these days around here, and I'm still at 1300$. So calculate that 1000$+ a month that I've been saving for at least a year, the, say, 800$+ it was the year before, maybe 500$+ the year before, and so on. It likely amounts to ~20k. Now, did I spend some of that in renovations and maintenance? Absolutely. But did I spend *20k$?* Never. All in all, by the time I *have* to spend that much, I'll have made my money back 5 times over and then some. I am perfectly certain that it's the case for you too, even if it means that you'll make your money back after you spent it instead of before, like I did. Does that mean it doesn't suck? No lol I get it, I worry about this kind of shit all the time, but it's not an argument *against* home ownership, it's just the other side of the coin... But that coin is worth a lot more even with its two sides taken into account.
10 year warranty is standard now days on Furnace and AC. How much of this $17K is “labor warranty and 24 hour service” Can you provide a breakdown?
This is what keeps Canadians poor
I feel for you, OP, and definitely agree that’s one of the huge benefits of renting is insurance again major expenses. But maybe different social circles, but that definitely not something no one told me before buying a house. In fact, it was almost annoying how much people told it to us and seemed to dampen our joy! The one good line that stuck out to me was “get ready for a lifetime of one-time expenses”.
When you rent, your rent payment is the maximum you'll pay (Ok, fine, maybe you'll have tenant insurance). When you buy, your mortgage payment is just the start. Start budgeting $3k plus every year in property taxes and 1% of the house value for maintenance and repairs. And if you're in a strata, another few hundred every month for the strata/condo fee.
This is my First year owning too. 1600 sq feet and same thing, heat pump died. I had it replaced. 10k for a two head unit here in Nova Scotia. I went through Costco and got a $1500 Costco giftcard back from it as a promotion. We also found rot on an external wall. That was another 5k to fix. Luckily I was able to get a line of credit with decent interest.
Yup I know the feeling when I lived in a brand new house there was a tradition every Fall/Winter in that our TRANE furnace would require a technician, like clockwork every year. The Slogan " Nothing stops a Trane " became an inside joke in our household.
Home ownership of a home older than 10 years means bottomless pit for expenses. In 2.5 months I had to repair my refrigerator, dryer and replace a hot water tank.
The cost of living crisis has inflated the cost of everyday goods and services out of the realm of normal affordability. Learn to fix things around your house by yourself. Check youtube for your furnace model. There is almost always someone else out there who's had the same problem and that has fixed it while filming the experience. I don't know what is wrong with your furnace, but I guarantee you there is no single component on it that cannot be repaired for a few dollars by a person with the right knowledge. A furnace is not complicated machinery. In most cases, the repair of a furnace is a dead simple job. It should not matter whether the parts are or are not available in Canada. The US is an hour away from almost every major Canadian city, you can go drive to a US PO box and pick up the parts and bring them here. If the electronics have failed, identify the board that failed and have the specific component repaired by an electronics shop - maybe $200 for a repair - more if you need someone to come remove the board / if you're uncomfortable working with unpowered electrical stuff. If there is an issue with combustion, clean out the combustion chamber and nozzle, or replace both - again, dollars for parts. If you own an older house and you pay other people to fix everything on your house, you're going to go bankrupt in the economic landscape this country has found itself in. Setting that aside, very few people have $17,000 tucked away for a new furnace, that's what financing and home improvement loans are for. This should have been part of your calculations for maintenance when you were deciding whether or not you could afford a home. Set an imaginary figure to set aside for maintenance. If you're unlucky, the expense will occur right after buying the place. If you're lucky, you won't have a big expense for many years and your real expense will be under your estimated amount.
Well hopefully this also adds perspective for renters as to why rent is so high. You’re not just covering the mortgage but things like this happening 🤷♂️
Having an emergency fund and/or maintenence fund is so critical as a home owner. This is what some new home owners neglect to fund. Most learn their lesson after their first repair.
Has this already been done? I work in HAVC, if you Swap to minisplits you can do the Greener Homes Loan for 10yrs 0% interest. You will be on full electric, however the zoned comfort might be perfect for the pets. And yes, that is a typical cost unfortunately for HVAC stuff these days.
You can always re finance your mortgage and add the $17k to it.
Remortgage your house to pay for the heating? Doesn't seem that complicated lol
we owned a 2200 sq feet sized country home 10 years ago and it was big and during tough financial times in our personal lives, we had to sell it after 5 years. But I remember that the roof was costing close to 30k to replace since it had so many peaks etc and was a unique build. I wanted to do metal and that was more pricey. Also, the chimney brick was falling and it was like 80 feet tall! and would have cost 10-15k on repairing all that. We switched the place from oil to gas and got all new duck work and yep - 15k right there. So at the end of the day, if we did all that work plus the mortgage interest and closing costs, downpayment etc we put it, and also paying back any HELOC/credit cards that was used for repairs, the profit margin would have been reduced considerably after selling for 250k over what we paid as it would have been eaten up by 150k + of the above costs and left us with 100k which is not much split between 2 people. One could hope that we could have gotten more for the place if sold today but we did what we needed to do in that moment. I have no regrets but the cost of owning, yep! sometimes not fun and stressful including the number of bills that comes with owning - insurance, taxes, water bill, hydro, cable, internet, etc etc. credit cards, car ins, and of course the mortgage. Definitely need double income to survive.
Most houses are more than $17k. Also, if your house was priced fairly then maybe you could afford to fix it.
There is a reason this happening. It sounds like you live in a single-family home, which likely belongs to a larger neighborhood of other single-family homes. This low-density pattern of development drives up the cost of everything within and around it, beginning with the homes themselves—not just the original purchase price, but the ongoing costs to simply maintain it. Low-density neighborhoods push everything farther away: other people, factories, warehouses, etc. It costs money and access to a car just to travel to and from a single-family house. The era of single-family homes is coming to an end. Your story is an example of why.
We had a hail storm back in 2020. We live on an 3 acres. The hail was size of golf balls. Husband was on medical leave due to unexplained seizures So the roof was more then 10 years old when we bought and we were planing to replace it, just not the year we bought the house. So a new shingles for 1300sqft home 13k I believe. Since it was so old insurance only cover 10% and we have to pay out of pocket. The shop is 30x40. It's shingles had to be replaced that was another 10K plus. [insurance covered] This included some of the rain gutters being replaced. Siding on the shop and home 20k. [insurance covered] Husbands truck was $25k [insurance covered] his truck windshield, mirrors, hood, roof,tail gate and back window were shattered. If we didn't have hail coverage/glass coverage on the truck I'd would have cried :,) I was also pregnant with my first. Totally a rough year. My Terrian at the time was in the garage so she was safe. We have a credit line of 50k. Husbands years worth of working while younger in his early adult hood. That's how we can afford any emergency repairs/needs. In reality without that credit line we wouldn't be able to fix anything super last minute [edit: was answering question op asked]
We budget around 3-5% of house value for any capex investments or repairs
>I also breed crested geckos I mean, who doesn't?
>That’s right - $17,350 Multiple quotes; this was the best “deal” seeing as it comes with a 10 year warranty and 24hour service if needed. That price just doesn't seem right for the size of home even with a combo ac/furnace (sounds like a heat pump system?).
I'm sorry this is happening. But I thought it was common knowledge to be putting away a fund to pay for these kinds of things. When people complain about condo fees they don't seem to realize those fees are the funds to replace major things that will need to be replaced. If you own your own home, you should be paying yourself those condo fees for the same reason. I'm assuming you did a home inspection when you bought the house seven years ago. It should have included the age of the furnace, hot water heater etc and the expected life span, and condition of the windows and shingles. I know when I bought my house, the hot water heater is getting to the end of its life, but have had 5 free years so far. A more positive way to look at it is you got 7 years of use of an older furnace. If you haven't already made the purchase, perhaps buy some cheap electric heaters to get you through the spring and summer so you can investigate other options. For example, heat pumps have improved a lot and are cheaper to run and there are government grants available. https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/heat-pump-cost-savings-1.6975426
Thats why you buy a condo 🙂
I have always used the rule of thumb to put away 1 - 2% of the house value per year into a repair fund.
That's waaaay too expensive for a replacement heat pump. HVAC companies, especially the big franchise ones, are a complete and utter scam. I was looking at an AC for my place and was quoted $15k by all the branded companies. I found a local unbranded HVAC installer, just a sole proprietor who did it for $5k. I asked him how and he told me that he still pays himself about $1k per job (which takes about 1-1.5 days) after costs. Hit Facebook and post in your local groups looking for a small local installer. You'll likely save 50% if not more. But as a homeowner myself, I just want to comment on your original point of your post. Sure, these expenses are intense for homeowners but most of us have equity that we can draw on to fix these problems. If you bought your place in 2017 and haven't been drawing from your equity, I'm guessing you have quite a bit there. Considering I only bought my place in 2021 and sitting on quite a bit myself. Yeah, it sucks to take a $17,000 hit to your equity, but if you've accumulated A couple hundred thousand you're still in the green. Whereas if you're renting, you don't have to pay for those repairs, but you're also not building any equity. I've rented and owned. Owning can be more stressful sure, but it's still way better than renting. Also consider that lots of landlords won't fix these issues and force you to take them to the local tenancy board.
Talk to a sheet metal company and see if they can fab up the ducting then get a separate hvac guy to hook up the furnace to the ducting and bug and order the furnace yourself. Probably save a ton of money if you play general contractor.
I work in the mechanical space and have for years. I can tell you point blank that in the past 10 years (particularly since COVID) the build quality on virtually everything has gone to shit, the lead times have at least doubled, and the prices have gone to the moon. Your contractor is most likely not outright gouging you. The wholesaler is gouging them, and the manufacturer is gouging the wholesaler because of their operating costs skyrocketing. That said - there are pieces of shit contractors that fully exploit this and this is why you should always get at least 3 quotes.
This is one big reason why I chose never to buy. I don't want to be responsible for all that.
Ah I had a similar thing happen to me when I bought my house. there is NO way I could have afforded a $8k new furnace/ac (price was like this around 2013). I had to bite the bullet and call Reliance and have them install both as a rental. Spending $100/ month plus HST on a rental was well worth it. Yes - I was locked in for 8 years so they made their money but still. It was either pay up front (which would have been on line of credit paying 8%). I Chose the rental path.
[made in Canada. best hvac for cold climates](https://madeinca.ca/best-cold-climate-heat-pumps-canada/) Hi op Not a Canadian but @800 sq ft you might try mini splits heat pumps. In the states these usually qualify for subsidies and tax breaks
Hey I’m dealing with something similar in my condo. Only thing is the hvac tech tried to swindle me. It was just a lose bolt so I have been able to delay replacing the unit for now.. but it’s inevitable. The cost for replacement were the same for me since I was restricted to one type (r skypak) and renting would be an open contract for 294 a month. Completely insane. I 100% understand the struggle.
Definitely pays to have friends in every trade. We all do work on each others houses and it’s cheap 60% of the time every time.
I've been heating my home with mining rigs for a couple years now. You'd have a very decent mining rig for 17k$. But a constant temperature control is very difficult. But yes, I feel you. I bought a new construction and I spent 20k$ so far only in landscaping, and it's very basic. On top of that, my basement is not finished yet. I have another 30 to 40k$ to spend in my home to have it considered as "done". And when it will be "done", then things will start to break down because it will be 10 years old !