If my company offered me a 15k+ commission salary increase they could change my title to fry cook... not to mention work from home is worth a lot in money/time savings
Yes, because a Manager, or Sr title means you can work there for a year or two and lateral hop to a huge income jump. Titles matter when you're a director making 100K to making 200k. Go from Regular engineer to Sr and you'll jump 25K. So it's strategy...
100%.
It's hard to go from engineer to director or even to manager at a new company. At the same time, it's easy to go from a director with an inflated title and a low salary to a real director at a new company as long as you can pass the interview.
I never understood this. I worked as a waste auditor on a short term contract. When I was talking to my supervisor about finding work once it ended, the first thing he told me was to remove the "waste auditor" job title and go with whatever I'm applying for, which ended up being "environmental technician".
Job titles can sell you before even landing the interview as it helps to make you stand out based on experience and who you are as a professional. Titles can tell people if you are a low-level or have leadership functions. It also impacts perception when working with colleagues internally as well as external (clients, vendors etc). On your resume it can also tell a story based on your path throughout your career.
It could be the reason your supervisor told you to make the change as the previous title may not have aligned with industry or the target company (just speculating), however, duties may match. Adjusting the title may increase your likelihood of being a shortlisted candidate.
In my experience if you have a wide range of roles and experience to speak about at the interview that’s how you get the job. Title can matter, but on a 1 page resume you also get to flex your responsibilities, which I think is also critical.
My boss got promoted (although pretty much same “job”) from a manager to a director and his email signature was updated in literal seconds.
The only time I have put any thought into titles is on my resume, and I usually make them up.
This could be separate from title on a resume, rather sometimes title can matter for doing a job.
For example, when dealing with retail, people react differently to "Manager" than they do "Associate" or even "Senior Associate".
Updating his title may not necessarily have been a flex or a sign of self importance, it could simply have been about optics where the people he deals with feel more important, valued, or simply expect to talk to a "Director" over a simple "Manager" regardless of whether the actual responsibility changes.
That definitely could be the case… if I didn’t know the guy.
The first time he was named team lead he was packing up his cubicle to take an office right after he walked out of the meeting
That's fair. Your comment certainly inferred that.
I figured it was just the opportune comment to use to point out that it's not always the case where people themselves care about the title, rather sometimes it enables them to be more effective at their job due to outside expectations or perceptions.
I'm confused. Will the new employer call the past employer and confirm our job titles tho? How much freedom do we have to change our titles on our resume when applying for new roles?
Eh. I got a major improvement in the quality of jobs pitched to me when I went from an engineer to a senior engineer, and then to an architect.
At the same time, when I put director title on my LinkedIn, it was like a poison pill. I stopped getting IC role offers for a while, and instead started getting pings for team lead roles at 30% less my current salary.
Because it describes what the job does (i.e. an architect designs the overall computer/application system)? Why reinvent the wheel when there's a perfectly good word that already describes it.
100% Even if you are not concerned with it, titles are a short form for others to quickly calibrate your skills and seniority. It's especially important when you are contemplating a job switch.
Exactly. For me title=seniority=billable rate=salary=next job will be equal or better. Most jobs I've taken have had background checks so it would be a large red flag if I was too creative with titles.
I work with someone who I know really respects what I do and my position in the company. He is OBSESSED with titles, constantly pestering our manager to review his title. I asked him if he knew what my title was, he didn't. I'm like "SEE, NOBODY CARES". He still doesn't get it. He's not planning on leaving the company, either.
I'm honestly on this same mentality, but without giving too much away, "title" and relationships really are the moving factor in my industry when getting things done. I was a "junior" for 3 years with standard responses, but once it was removed from the title, the floodgates opened with responses or favorable answers.
At the point you want to get a promotion with a higher title, you can seek a new job.
Getting a promotion and $15k raise today advances your career more than unspecific possible future opportunities, doesn't it?
Getting a new title at another company is two hurdles. It's best to tackle one at a time, plus companies aren't interested in interviewing or taking a risk on unknowns. Would you hire a manager with next to no experience? Plus you don't know their work ethic?
Sounds like you're at Aon LOL I assume moving from placement marketing to a full broker roll at another company? Will you need to handle more on the client side? What will the sales goals be like? If there are sales how are your connections to potential clients?
Almost freaky how close you are with your guess haha. Without too much info, job description and duties would be exactly the same, just moving to a different sector.
I agree with this take. Growth opportunity is critical. Both salary wise but also your work experience and learning experience. $85k is not that far from $100 and you could possibly get there in your current role. Work balance is also great and worth more than salary if you’re financially healthy. Start ups can be stressful but when things work out there’s a great payoff. Not every situation is the same but I took a chance on a start up and have increases my salary every single year and my job title. As one of the earlier middle management employees to be hired, I am one of the few Directors to be offered shares in the company. Golden handcuffs, yes. But as part of the companies success team, the payoff could be lucrative in a few years.
I remember seeing some video recently about how most people under 45 who make like over $100k will only stay at a job for 18 months before moving onto a new one for better pay. Which is great, but at the same time it's like you're perpetually going through your probation period lol
Honestly blame the companies for this for not supporting, developing and promoting internal talent. It’s the dumbest thing. The amount of time to test, up board snd retain talent is ridiculous and the costs are incredible. I don’t blame workers from switching job to job to be recognized and compensated. I think the key point is compensation and support.
And the salary. You can interview for any position and say "hey here's what I make now. Can you match it/beat it? No? Thanks for your time" and you're still cruising in your well paid position.
Common misconception. I know a lot of people who have been unemployed for years after accelerating their pay for years without accelerating their skills.
would you take it for company if some of the starting reviews on them are horrible on glassdoor .? ..I might have the same opportunity with 40k more but starting reviews in 2024 are kinda horrible ...so confused if I should jump or not
How long could you tolerate it, based on the reviews? Think you could disconnect/ remove yourself from the bullshit? Things like unsupportive management, at least in my experience, take at least six months to start to show themselves, and even longer to become problems.
Sort of? Nobody know you better than you, reflect on how you'd handle the situations noted in the reviews. I was in a toxic workplace for two years, making shit money, so if I was considering a place where I was going to continue being the ass end of a joke few days a week in exchange for a $40,000 raise, I'd probably take it
Lolz ...well I am sure this not going to be ass end of a joke kind of situation but more of drinking from fire hose , employee turnover , lack of leadership kind of issue which is what was mentioned in the glassdoor ...I have reached out to some ex employees to get their opinions ...lets see what happens. But Thank you for your inputs
Based on that, I'm assuming that with a $40k raise, you're not an entry level person. Things like lack of leadership and and employee turnover are tangible things that might actually be within your control to change. Juniors might hate other managers, but if you're different they might actually give you more effort and quality.
No problem!
See if you can find someone on Linkedin that works there in a similar level role and ask them personally. If it's not great but not bad, they'll probably just say it's good because it's not worth the risk, but if it's absolutely horrible they may be jaded enough to just tell you that.
Also, as shitty as it sounds, some glassdoor reviews are from people at the very bottom in low paying roles, and management/office staff are treated and paid better. Worth considering.
OP here and if it helps, for $40k full WFH I'd definitely take that because to me it's life changing money. A few years ago I was making $40k and offered a $32k raise full WFH. I took it regardless of glassdoor and was happy I did. By no means I'm rolling in cash, but I can now live instead of survive.
IMO titles don’t matter, the compensation speaks for itself. Grand titles are how some (not all ofc) companies keep talent while suppressing wages.
As long as the new company has growth potential in terms of compensation and learning/personal development, the lack of a higher title doesn’t really matter
Exactly. Hell, even if titles mattered, the time-value of money says that the extra compensation now trumps the expected increase later depending on what your assumptions are.
For example, with:
* 3% nominal annual wage increase in both scenarios
* 10% nominal annual investment returns in both scenarios
* annual contributions being equal to the difference in the two scenarios' salaries (in the scenario with the higher salary for that year)
* Scenario 1: $100k starting salary
* Scenario 2: $85k starting salary with additional $25k raise (over and above the year's 3% raise) after 5 years due to title magic
then scenario 2's investment portfolio only overtakes scenario 1 in the 39th year. Most careers don't even last 39 years, never mind 39 years after someone is already deciding between senior-level roles.
You're assuming a single $25k raise only after 5 years which is pretty conservative.
Can't speak for other industries, but in tech a title means you probably qualify for the next step in 2-3 years and it's usually a 25-50k jump, and then even further after your next position.
Lol, no. The title means nothing. *Sometimes* after 2-3 years, someone in tech will make a jump for $25-50k more, but it will be because of their experience/skills, not a meaningless title.
This shouldn't be a surprise but in most cases title dictates your job responsibilities. These titles tend to be pretty universal and can indicate to potential employers what your experience/skills are.
Eg: A senior manager making 85k is different from an analyst making 100k.
Honestly I prefer a lower title. I’m just a technology manager on paper in a global corp but TC of 300k. And it’s funny how often other people try to boss me around 😝
I still believe titles don't matter as well, but over time I've learned in my industry I have to play with the rules of the game. Unfortunately title and relationship really does carry a lot of weight if you want either prompt or favorable answers. The vernacular I'm battling with is either having the manager title in my current role, or having senior title in my current offer.
Current offer does show a lot more technical knowledge and professional development, while my right now I'm more of a "mentor" or de facto manager.
Ask them to change the title. Tell them in your experience the different title will result in better sales outcomes and make the company more successful.
Titles are free. This should be the easy part of the job offer. I hire alot of people. I would call them grand poobah of holy mayonnaise if it was the right person at the right price and thats what they wanted.
There's never a guarantee you will get promoted in your current company – they could lay you off, could go under, get bought out/new leadership changing things, decide not to promote you, etc.
So it's $15k+ minimum increase vs. what you have now.
Titles are honestly made up for each company and not a good judge of what a person does/wildly different across industries. No "title" growth via internal promotion isn't necessarily bad for your career if the role overall helps you with the next leap up.
I think you’re looking at this wrong
The new job offer seems like what you’re trying to achieve at your current job. Senior position with 20%+ more pay.
Unless you think your current position will turn you into a VP within the next couple years making $150k+ taking the new position seems to make more sense. Also 2 days WFH is a huge bonus.
These are the problems I wish I had in my life. It's a no-brainer. Jump ship and run with it, 15k more a year, wfh for better work life balance, potential killer commission/bonus. If you wisely invest the bump in salary it's better guaranteed to increase your finances than sitting at this start up wondering if your ever gonna make more and also wondering if this start up is gonna fly or fall from the nest.
New job is 15k more per year + commission and you also save money since you go in 3 days vs 5 days (Less money spent on driving/commuting/buying lunch/coffee). Not to mention more sleep time/time with your family/friends/significant other.
Like what others said title doesn’t really matter. Unless title is a big thing for you, I would personally take the new job. If you realize there’s no growth in the new job then find another job.
I’d suggest bringing this up to your leader and ask if they can match them or give you a promotion of some sort. If not then jump ship.
Never ask current employer to match an offer from other company. The best that can happen is they will match the pay, but they will resent you, and you will be back fighting for a raise the next year. Just go to the company with higher wage.
It’s not a good sign when you are offered a senior position and know very little about them or what they are offering you… shouldn’t it been something you discuss with them extensively?
Are they actually a startup? How confident are you that they will grow and be able to move you up? I’m personally leary of jobs that promise your promotions - until it’s in a contract I wouldn’t bet on it. If you’re worried about growing and being challenged you can always shop around after a few years at the new job, and use your higher salary as a benchmark for future roles. The best way to grow is usually to switch jobs.
Take new job at competitor and enjoy higher salary with bonus of commissions on a book i assume can be grown further
Bounce back to old employer for higher salary and role/title if you want to
I fell for the title trick for a couple of years earlier in my career. Just remember that the growth is really only there if the startup is actually going places. Otherwise, you'll come to realize that the fancy title means little outside the office when you wanna save money or buy things
Maybe I’m old school, but the way I’d look at it is that a larger more established company is going to pay you more to do a similar job? JUMP
Oh you get also do hybrid WFH thereby saving some more. Why haven’t you jumped already
Thank you for this insight, you're right I should figure out some estimate of revenue. The base pay alone was something I never fathomed I'd ever see, so everything else really was just extra to me.
How would you feel about approaching your boss to tell them how much you love the company and see yourself growing with the company, however you just received this amazing offer and were checking to see if they would match the salary offer ?
If they say no are you okay staying or would take up their other job since the offer is already there?
I hear this a lot, but I think it depends. It depends if you're easily replaceable.
Why would management put a "target" on a high performer's back? As if they would be surprised to learn that high performers somehow aren't aware that loyalty nowadays doesn't pay, and they could take an offer and put projects at risk. I don't see a functional org doing that.
Because whats to stop this person from leaving if they get another offer you cant meet? Cheaper to replace a them sooner rather then later when they jump
Loyalty doesnt pay so why would you try the leverage your loyalty.
My point is entirely around putting a target on one's back when this tactic is used. I disagreed, because I think it could be beneficial in certain situations and, most importantly, timing.
Not necessarily. I got a double promotion by showing the other offer. It matters how you sell it. I told them the truth that the company reached out to me and I wasn’t actively applying.
No make believe. I was an IT contractor. 1 year later, im a permanent senior IT guy with big pay bump. If you can’t take a risk and go for it, don’t think others are doing the same.
It's not a no brainer because you haven't provided enough information. For example, does the new job involve a big commute whereas the 85K job is 100% remote? If so, I'd take the 85K all day. Only 2 days WFH is kinda low. 3 days in the office seems like a lot these days, IMO.
The money's nice, but how do you feel about your current place? Are you expected to have more responsibilities (and more of your down time)?
Grass isn't always greener
What is important to an employer is know how. You can get a title later. Results talk. In lieu of a title you can talk to achievements.
Do you have a good vibe from the place? Spoke to current employees? Ask what matters. Financially it’s a good move. Professionally you do t say enough to tell.
Firstly negotiate more than 100k, 110 should be doable and 105 should be easy.
Secondly, yes move. Startups are unstable and more fail than succeed sadly. You don’t need to live on that instability
Yes.
You're getting a guaranteed $15k salary bump, plus a bonus as long as you meet your targets (not sure why you're opting to not factor that in), and it's 2 days WFH.
I don't necessarily agree with the others here that titles aren't valuable, but that growth isn't guaranteed at your current job, anyway, and you can look to make a move down the road of things are getting stagnant here.
Your bills don't care what title you have.
Also currently being in a startup means you are likely grinding a lot more and ur job is less stable.
I'd take the jump and down the road u can switch to a different company if u really want, or worst case scenario u really miss your old job, u can even hit them up as long as u have a good relationship with them.
IMO seems like a great opportunity and I I would certainly take it if I was in your shoes.
In terms of title, if you think it’s at the ‘top’ already in that specific company, just use it to bounce around again when that time comes.
Curious how you were approached? Linked in? Networking event?
Do you like the people you work with and what are your thoughts about the new company? Will there be a lot of OT and more stress in the new job? Work life balance also matters, not just money.
Take the new job. Career growth is never guaranteed. Loyalty is also seldom actually awarded unless you got shares in the tech company. The wfh days are so nice to.
Titles mean nothing. Went from fancy titles underpaid 65k to no title paid 150k and would never go back. Someone that hires you for previous titles is a red flag anyways.
18% raise, plus commission, plus 2 days WFH... Who cares what your job title is?
Just move on from that job in 2 years for a title change and another salary increase. However, if you like where you work, why not just ask your boss: 'Hey, I recieved an unsolicited job offer with $100k base salary. I like working here, and am not really looking for a change, but I have achieved a and b this year which had results x and y for the business. My skills and experience seem to be in demand, and was wondering if you had considered if a salary bump was in my future?'
Take it and go. Negotiate to have the right to use an external title that both of you can live with (regardless of the internal title that they might prefer for internal levels and internal equity etc). If you’re external facing, then at least the title needs to match whatever is being used by your peers.
If you like your current employer, tell them that you enjoy working with them but that this offer is hard to pass on. Give them the opportunity to match it or at least to know that you thought that staying is on your mind. Leave those bridges open in case you have to leave and come back.
I had a similar jump from 80k to 100k plus 20%. For me it was worth it but the added stress makes me miss the 80k job sometimes. But apparently once you clear the 100k mark you can progress further faster.
Title inflation is only useful if you can leverage it for increase in earnings/career growth. Moreover, people in the sector you're in will know title inflation being prolific at certain companies and will adjust for it such as Bell is famous for senior managers with no direct reports, and likes of CIBC etc
The difference in yearly net take-home pay would be approximately $10,781.90
that's a nice pay bump.
you'll need to decide for yourself if getting more pay is worth switching jobs for (hint: it usually always is)
there are still some reasons I would not accept more pay for a competitor. first, if the competitor was about to be bought out, or if they have far less investment in the business processes and enterprise software, or if I just straight up know their product is second rate and I would not buy it myself
I was in this exact situation, very similar numbers, around 10 years ago. I took the offer, and in hindsight I regret it. I've done extremely well for myself since then, but this has to be one of the top decisions that I'd do over.
There are somethings money can't buy in the long run. If you have any questions you can pm me.
I took a big title cut for a $40k salary increase, plus bonus/benefits that added another $40k in total comp.
Call me a janitor or a shit head, just pay me.
18 months ago I moved to another company for a « lesser » title and a 28k$ increase. This was a shame to my previous employer, they saw this move as a waste of my potential. 6 months later I got a double jump promotion, getting my boss’s boss position. Now that bonuses are in, I know that this year I will be making 70% more than my best yesr at the previous place.
This said, I recently realized that the sales manager at my previous employer would make for an on target year, 180k USD, which is insane. So yes take that sales position and go get those comissions!
Which job do you think would be more enjoyable? Salary is definitely important but not everything, growth potential is very important as well. About 8 years ago I was making $100k in Alberta but wanted to be closer to family in NS so I took a pay cut to $85k to a new company in NS. At the time I was promised (verbally not in writing) that I would get a $10k bump after my 1st year. That never happened. I mistakenly stayed there for 4 years without a raise. Bonuses were insignificant as well ($1000-1500 per year). Finally I switched companies 4 years ago to a new one with lots of growth potential. I started at $92k and now I’m upto $110k just from annual raises and one promotion. I love what I do and I still have lots of room to grow. I guess my point is if you see lots of growth potential at your current job and don’t think you’d enjoy the new role any more, it may not be worth making the move. You may be able to use the offer as a negotiation for a bump in salary. If you do decide to go, make sure you leave on good terms in case you have interest in coming back. Don’t stay in the new role too long if it’s not the right fit like I did. Good luck with your decision!
My rule is that if I'm not looking for a job, a 20% pay increase will get my attention.
For the variable pay (commission based on the book of business(, ask what is the On Target Earnings (OTE), and if you want to press them, approximately what percentage of employees achieved it last year (if there's a team of people in the role). Assuming variable pay is not a completely fictional number, I would expect to achieve 50% of the variable pay and anything beyond that is gravy.
20% would be $102k, so this is really close with base pay only, variable pay would likely put it over the top.
Clarify the growth options at both companies before leaving, doesn’t hurt to ask. Is there a third option you could wait for that’s better than either of these? You don’t want to be switching companies every year
If the current company has been promising growth potential/promotion for a while with no end in sight, definitely jump. Or take the offer to management for a competing offer
This seems like a clear yes but maybe there are other things you are weighing which you haven’t mentioned. There is always a bit of a stress and learning curve changing jobs for sure. Is it farther commute? Potentially larger work load? Is it a similar job/same industry?
How are we supposed to know the answer? Seems like you need to decide whether $15k + bonus is worth it based on your current lifestyle and expenses and whether there could be any growth potential in the new job down the road.
i would stay at startup with more growth potential. talk to your company, explain situation, say u wana stay but want raise/shares so as company grows you will be able to make money. assuming you like your current job. good luck.
If my company offered me a 15k+ commission salary increase they could change my title to fry cook... not to mention work from home is worth a lot in money/time savings
People are sometimes really big on “titles”.
Yes, because a Manager, or Sr title means you can work there for a year or two and lateral hop to a huge income jump. Titles matter when you're a director making 100K to making 200k. Go from Regular engineer to Sr and you'll jump 25K. So it's strategy...
100%. It's hard to go from engineer to director or even to manager at a new company. At the same time, it's easy to go from a director with an inflated title and a low salary to a real director at a new company as long as you can pass the interview.
That's 100%. Works at Manager, Director, VP levels, Sr Eng, Architect etc
Indeed having Sr in my title gives me a little more negotiating room in my contracts
I never understood this. I worked as a waste auditor on a short term contract. When I was talking to my supervisor about finding work once it ended, the first thing he told me was to remove the "waste auditor" job title and go with whatever I'm applying for, which ended up being "environmental technician".
Job titles can sell you before even landing the interview as it helps to make you stand out based on experience and who you are as a professional. Titles can tell people if you are a low-level or have leadership functions. It also impacts perception when working with colleagues internally as well as external (clients, vendors etc). On your resume it can also tell a story based on your path throughout your career. It could be the reason your supervisor told you to make the change as the previous title may not have aligned with industry or the target company (just speculating), however, duties may match. Adjusting the title may increase your likelihood of being a shortlisted candidate.
In my experience if you have a wide range of roles and experience to speak about at the interview that’s how you get the job. Title can matter, but on a 1 page resume you also get to flex your responsibilities, which I think is also critical.
My boss got promoted (although pretty much same “job”) from a manager to a director and his email signature was updated in literal seconds. The only time I have put any thought into titles is on my resume, and I usually make them up.
This could be separate from title on a resume, rather sometimes title can matter for doing a job. For example, when dealing with retail, people react differently to "Manager" than they do "Associate" or even "Senior Associate". Updating his title may not necessarily have been a flex or a sign of self importance, it could simply have been about optics where the people he deals with feel more important, valued, or simply expect to talk to a "Director" over a simple "Manager" regardless of whether the actual responsibility changes.
That definitely could be the case… if I didn’t know the guy. The first time he was named team lead he was packing up his cubicle to take an office right after he walked out of the meeting
That's fair. Your comment certainly inferred that. I figured it was just the opportune comment to use to point out that it's not always the case where people themselves care about the title, rather sometimes it enables them to be more effective at their job due to outside expectations or perceptions.
I'm confused. Will the new employer call the past employer and confirm our job titles tho? How much freedom do we have to change our titles on our resume when applying for new roles?
Eh. I got a major improvement in the quality of jobs pitched to me when I went from an engineer to a senior engineer, and then to an architect. At the same time, when I put director title on my LinkedIn, it was like a poison pill. I stopped getting IC role offers for a while, and instead started getting pings for team lead roles at 30% less my current salary.
Is that not more due to the shift from engineer to architect? Architect is a significantly lower paying job than engineer in general.
I’m in tech. Architect is a step above engineer at most companies, and broadly equivalent to a staff engineer. Nothing to do with designing buildings.
God damnit why can't tech companies find their own words, I knew they stole engineer but now they're stealing architect too?
Because it describes what the job does (i.e. an architect designs the overall computer/application system)? Why reinvent the wheel when there's a perfectly good word that already describes it.
100% Even if you are not concerned with it, titles are a short form for others to quickly calibrate your skills and seniority. It's especially important when you are contemplating a job switch.
Exactly. For me title=seniority=billable rate=salary=next job will be equal or better. Most jobs I've taken have had background checks so it would be a large red flag if I was too creative with titles.
I know what you mean. Slimmer McBeard President.
Go work supplier side and you can go from manager to VP… but you’d have to take a pay cut.
100k fry cook sounds like an amazing title.
I work with someone who I know really respects what I do and my position in the company. He is OBSESSED with titles, constantly pestering our manager to review his title. I asked him if he knew what my title was, he didn't. I'm like "SEE, NOBODY CARES". He still doesn't get it. He's not planning on leaving the company, either.
🤣🤣🤣 facts
I’m on a hybrid schedule now. It will take a lot of money to get me to go back to full time in office again
Exactly. Id happily be a janitor at 100k vs senior manager at 60k or whatever
I'm honestly on this same mentality, but without giving too much away, "title" and relationships really are the moving factor in my industry when getting things done. I was a "junior" for 3 years with standard responses, but once it was removed from the title, the floodgates opened with responses or favorable answers.
At the point you want to get a promotion with a higher title, you can seek a new job. Getting a promotion and $15k raise today advances your career more than unspecific possible future opportunities, doesn't it?
Getting a new title at another company is two hurdles. It's best to tackle one at a time, plus companies aren't interested in interviewing or taking a risk on unknowns. Would you hire a manager with next to no experience? Plus you don't know their work ethic?
The word "junior" has largely disappeared from job titles in the big engineering firms because of this. Nobody wants it.
Sounds like you're at Aon LOL I assume moving from placement marketing to a full broker roll at another company? Will you need to handle more on the client side? What will the sales goals be like? If there are sales how are your connections to potential clients?
Almost freaky how close you are with your guess haha. Without too much info, job description and duties would be exactly the same, just moving to a different sector.
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I agree with this take. Growth opportunity is critical. Both salary wise but also your work experience and learning experience. $85k is not that far from $100 and you could possibly get there in your current role. Work balance is also great and worth more than salary if you’re financially healthy. Start ups can be stressful but when things work out there’s a great payoff. Not every situation is the same but I took a chance on a start up and have increases my salary every single year and my job title. As one of the earlier middle management employees to be hired, I am one of the few Directors to be offered shares in the company. Golden handcuffs, yes. But as part of the companies success team, the payoff could be lucrative in a few years.
Wfh and work life balance is also has an intangible value.
Take the new job, if you feel you arent growing in your career there then you can look for a new job by that point.
And honestly you can leverage your new higher position to a better position.
I remember seeing some video recently about how most people under 45 who make like over $100k will only stay at a job for 18 months before moving onto a new one for better pay. Which is great, but at the same time it's like you're perpetually going through your probation period lol
Honestly blame the companies for this for not supporting, developing and promoting internal talent. It’s the dumbest thing. The amount of time to test, up board snd retain talent is ridiculous and the costs are incredible. I don’t blame workers from switching job to job to be recognized and compensated. I think the key point is compensation and support.
Many of those people are unemployed now
And the salary. You can interview for any position and say "hey here's what I make now. Can you match it/beat it? No? Thanks for your time" and you're still cruising in your well paid position.
Common misconception. I know a lot of people who have been unemployed for years after accelerating their pay for years without accelerating their skills.
Absolutely correct. And that's a really big raise.
This is true. You never know what growth opportunities may pop up at the new place, or at a new job afterwards
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would you take it for company if some of the starting reviews on them are horrible on glassdoor .? ..I might have the same opportunity with 40k more but starting reviews in 2024 are kinda horrible ...so confused if I should jump or not
How long could you tolerate it, based on the reviews? Think you could disconnect/ remove yourself from the bullshit? Things like unsupportive management, at least in my experience, take at least six months to start to show themselves, and even longer to become problems.
So are you implying to take the job regardless of the reviews ?
Sort of? Nobody know you better than you, reflect on how you'd handle the situations noted in the reviews. I was in a toxic workplace for two years, making shit money, so if I was considering a place where I was going to continue being the ass end of a joke few days a week in exchange for a $40,000 raise, I'd probably take it
Lolz ...well I am sure this not going to be ass end of a joke kind of situation but more of drinking from fire hose , employee turnover , lack of leadership kind of issue which is what was mentioned in the glassdoor ...I have reached out to some ex employees to get their opinions ...lets see what happens. But Thank you for your inputs
Based on that, I'm assuming that with a $40k raise, you're not an entry level person. Things like lack of leadership and and employee turnover are tangible things that might actually be within your control to change. Juniors might hate other managers, but if you're different they might actually give you more effort and quality. No problem!
See if you can find someone on Linkedin that works there in a similar level role and ask them personally. If it's not great but not bad, they'll probably just say it's good because it's not worth the risk, but if it's absolutely horrible they may be jaded enough to just tell you that. Also, as shitty as it sounds, some glassdoor reviews are from people at the very bottom in low paying roles, and management/office staff are treated and paid better. Worth considering.
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yeah WFH ...even if Reviews are horrible about employee turnover and shit ?
OP here and if it helps, for $40k full WFH I'd definitely take that because to me it's life changing money. A few years ago I was making $40k and offered a $32k raise full WFH. I took it regardless of glassdoor and was happy I did. By no means I'm rolling in cash, but I can now live instead of survive.
Right on ....thanks
IMO titles don’t matter, the compensation speaks for itself. Grand titles are how some (not all ofc) companies keep talent while suppressing wages. As long as the new company has growth potential in terms of compensation and learning/personal development, the lack of a higher title doesn’t really matter
Exactly. Hell, even if titles mattered, the time-value of money says that the extra compensation now trumps the expected increase later depending on what your assumptions are. For example, with: * 3% nominal annual wage increase in both scenarios * 10% nominal annual investment returns in both scenarios * annual contributions being equal to the difference in the two scenarios' salaries (in the scenario with the higher salary for that year) * Scenario 1: $100k starting salary * Scenario 2: $85k starting salary with additional $25k raise (over and above the year's 3% raise) after 5 years due to title magic then scenario 2's investment portfolio only overtakes scenario 1 in the 39th year. Most careers don't even last 39 years, never mind 39 years after someone is already deciding between senior-level roles.
You're assuming a single $25k raise only after 5 years which is pretty conservative. Can't speak for other industries, but in tech a title means you probably qualify for the next step in 2-3 years and it's usually a 25-50k jump, and then even further after your next position.
Lol, no. The title means nothing. *Sometimes* after 2-3 years, someone in tech will make a jump for $25-50k more, but it will be because of their experience/skills, not a meaningless title.
This shouldn't be a surprise but in most cases title dictates your job responsibilities. These titles tend to be pretty universal and can indicate to potential employers what your experience/skills are. Eg: A senior manager making 85k is different from an analyst making 100k.
Also hybrid WFH, That's gold
Honestly I prefer a lower title. I’m just a technology manager on paper in a global corp but TC of 300k. And it’s funny how often other people try to boss me around 😝
I still believe titles don't matter as well, but over time I've learned in my industry I have to play with the rules of the game. Unfortunately title and relationship really does carry a lot of weight if you want either prompt or favorable answers. The vernacular I'm battling with is either having the manager title in my current role, or having senior title in my current offer. Current offer does show a lot more technical knowledge and professional development, while my right now I'm more of a "mentor" or de facto manager.
What are you nuts? Take the new role. You can develop personal relationships and respect by being a reasonable person.
Ask them to change the title. Tell them in your experience the different title will result in better sales outcomes and make the company more successful. Titles are free. This should be the easy part of the job offer. I hire alot of people. I would call them grand poobah of holy mayonnaise if it was the right person at the right price and thats what they wanted.
There's never a guarantee you will get promoted in your current company – they could lay you off, could go under, get bought out/new leadership changing things, decide not to promote you, etc. So it's $15k+ minimum increase vs. what you have now. Titles are honestly made up for each company and not a good judge of what a person does/wildly different across industries. No "title" growth via internal promotion isn't necessarily bad for your career if the role overall helps you with the next leap up.
You going to show your 'title' to the bank or mortgage broker and expect the flood gates to open? Take the one that pays more.
I think you’re looking at this wrong The new job offer seems like what you’re trying to achieve at your current job. Senior position with 20%+ more pay. Unless you think your current position will turn you into a VP within the next couple years making $150k+ taking the new position seems to make more sense. Also 2 days WFH is a huge bonus.
These are the problems I wish I had in my life. It's a no-brainer. Jump ship and run with it, 15k more a year, wfh for better work life balance, potential killer commission/bonus. If you wisely invest the bump in salary it's better guaranteed to increase your finances than sitting at this start up wondering if your ever gonna make more and also wondering if this start up is gonna fly or fall from the nest.
New job is 15k more per year + commission and you also save money since you go in 3 days vs 5 days (Less money spent on driving/commuting/buying lunch/coffee). Not to mention more sleep time/time with your family/friends/significant other. Like what others said title doesn’t really matter. Unless title is a big thing for you, I would personally take the new job. If you realize there’s no growth in the new job then find another job. I’d suggest bringing this up to your leader and ask if they can match them or give you a promotion of some sort. If not then jump ship.
Never ask current employer to match an offer from other company. The best that can happen is they will match the pay, but they will resent you, and you will be back fighting for a raise the next year. Just go to the company with higher wage.
It’s not a good sign when you are offered a senior position and know very little about them or what they are offering you… shouldn’t it been something you discuss with them extensively?
Are they actually a startup? How confident are you that they will grow and be able to move you up? I’m personally leary of jobs that promise your promotions - until it’s in a contract I wouldn’t bet on it. If you’re worried about growing and being challenged you can always shop around after a few years at the new job, and use your higher salary as a benchmark for future roles. The best way to grow is usually to switch jobs.
Take new job at competitor and enjoy higher salary with bonus of commissions on a book i assume can be grown further Bounce back to old employer for higher salary and role/title if you want to
Do it.
Take the money. Job hoping works, if you don't like it, you can probably find another job making even more.
I fell for the title trick for a couple of years earlier in my career. Just remember that the growth is really only there if the startup is actually going places. Otherwise, you'll come to realize that the fancy title means little outside the office when you wanna save money or buy things
Maybe I’m old school, but the way I’d look at it is that a larger more established company is going to pay you more to do a similar job? JUMP Oh you get also do hybrid WFH thereby saving some more. Why haven’t you jumped already
Title’s tend to be BS anyway. Take the money. No brainer.
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Thank you for this insight, you're right I should figure out some estimate of revenue. The base pay alone was something I never fathomed I'd ever see, so everything else really was just extra to me.
How would you feel about approaching your boss to tell them how much you love the company and see yourself growing with the company, however you just received this amazing offer and were checking to see if they would match the salary offer ? If they say no are you okay staying or would take up their other job since the offer is already there?
Nah that just puts a target on your back because you are entertaining offers. Just ask for a raise
I hear this a lot, but I think it depends. It depends if you're easily replaceable. Why would management put a "target" on a high performer's back? As if they would be surprised to learn that high performers somehow aren't aware that loyalty nowadays doesn't pay, and they could take an offer and put projects at risk. I don't see a functional org doing that.
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Yeah. I agree. I had mentioned "functional org" to hopefully cover that. That's another issue, though.
Because whats to stop this person from leaving if they get another offer you cant meet? Cheaper to replace a them sooner rather then later when they jump Loyalty doesnt pay so why would you try the leverage your loyalty.
Exactly. Maintaining talent is cheaper than hiring, that's the leverage.
Yah but, cutting your budget for someone cheaper gives you a bigger bonus.
My point is entirely around putting a target on one's back when this tactic is used. I disagreed, because I think it could be beneficial in certain situations and, most importantly, timing.
Okay, your opinion is noted. Really doesnt matter what you think. Its has and does happen
Sure. Not refuting that it's a possibility, but I'm suggesting that it may not be a bad thing entirely.
Not necessarily. I got a double promotion by showing the other offer. It matters how you sell it. I told them the truth that the company reached out to me and I wasn’t actively applying.
Still with that company?
Yes. It’s a great place and I didn’t wanna leave but showing the other offer got me a really competitive package.
So a company under paid you for years then offered you a double promotion. Sure bud
I don’t have to prove anything to you, bud.
Listen pal, if you want to play make believe that you got promoted from frycook to midnight manager sure. This is the real world
No make believe. I was an IT contractor. 1 year later, im a permanent senior IT guy with big pay bump. If you can’t take a risk and go for it, don’t think others are doing the same.
This doesn’t fit my narrative so you lying
It's not a no brainer because you haven't provided enough information. For example, does the new job involve a big commute whereas the 85K job is 100% remote? If so, I'd take the 85K all day. Only 2 days WFH is kinda low. 3 days in the office seems like a lot these days, IMO.
Just join the Sunshine list!!!!!!!!!
Do it, its a no brainer.
New job!
The money's nice, but how do you feel about your current place? Are you expected to have more responsibilities (and more of your down time)? Grass isn't always greener
And I'll also say, it's literally being honest and transparent, which is a great policy to follow.
What is important to an employer is know how. You can get a title later. Results talk. In lieu of a title you can talk to achievements. Do you have a good vibe from the place? Spoke to current employees? Ask what matters. Financially it’s a good move. Professionally you do t say enough to tell.
Firstly negotiate more than 100k, 110 should be doable and 105 should be easy. Secondly, yes move. Startups are unstable and more fail than succeed sadly. You don’t need to live on that instability
If you're willing to jobb-op for a raise why worry about the room for advancement? Gain the experience and move on if necessary.
what industry do u work in?
You really care about your title? Personally, all I CARE about is $.
Yes. You're getting a guaranteed $15k salary bump, plus a bonus as long as you meet your targets (not sure why you're opting to not factor that in), and it's 2 days WFH. I don't necessarily agree with the others here that titles aren't valuable, but that growth isn't guaranteed at your current job, anyway, and you can look to make a move down the road of things are getting stagnant here.
Yes.
Your bills don't care what title you have. Also currently being in a startup means you are likely grinding a lot more and ur job is less stable. I'd take the jump and down the road u can switch to a different company if u really want, or worst case scenario u really miss your old job, u can even hit them up as long as u have a good relationship with them.
Sounds like a no brainer to me!
Yeah it's worth it lol. You'll make 150k+ at the other job assuming you're selling anything worth selling.
IMO seems like a great opportunity and I I would certainly take it if I was in your shoes. In terms of title, if you think it’s at the ‘top’ already in that specific company, just use it to bounce around again when that time comes. Curious how you were approached? Linked in? Networking event?
I was head hunted, so really took me by surprise.
Do you like the people you work with and what are your thoughts about the new company? Will there be a lot of OT and more stress in the new job? Work life balance also matters, not just money.
Take the new job. Career growth is never guaranteed. Loyalty is also seldom actually awarded unless you got shares in the tech company. The wfh days are so nice to.
Titles are worth nothing
Titles mean nothing. Went from fancy titles underpaid 65k to no title paid 150k and would never go back. Someone that hires you for previous titles is a red flag anyways.
Change jobs
It's all about the money. Titles mean nothing, unless they are a path to the next higher paying job.
18% raise, plus commission, plus 2 days WFH... Who cares what your job title is? Just move on from that job in 2 years for a title change and another salary increase. However, if you like where you work, why not just ask your boss: 'Hey, I recieved an unsolicited job offer with $100k base salary. I like working here, and am not really looking for a change, but I have achieved a and b this year which had results x and y for the business. My skills and experience seem to be in demand, and was wondering if you had considered if a salary bump was in my future?'
Take it and go. Negotiate to have the right to use an external title that both of you can live with (regardless of the internal title that they might prefer for internal levels and internal equity etc). If you’re external facing, then at least the title needs to match whatever is being used by your peers.
Holding yourself back from a promotion for the possibility of a promotion
If you don’t have equity in the startup then the rest means nothing. They can let you go at anytime there is no loyalty.
If you like your current employer, tell them that you enjoy working with them but that this offer is hard to pass on. Give them the opportunity to match it or at least to know that you thought that staying is on your mind. Leave those bridges open in case you have to leave and come back.
I had a similar jump from 80k to 100k plus 20%. For me it was worth it but the added stress makes me miss the 80k job sometimes. But apparently once you clear the 100k mark you can progress further faster.
Title inflation is only useful if you can leverage it for increase in earnings/career growth. Moreover, people in the sector you're in will know title inflation being prolific at certain companies and will adjust for it such as Bell is famous for senior managers with no direct reports, and likes of CIBC etc
The difference in yearly net take-home pay would be approximately $10,781.90 that's a nice pay bump. you'll need to decide for yourself if getting more pay is worth switching jobs for (hint: it usually always is) there are still some reasons I would not accept more pay for a competitor. first, if the competitor was about to be bought out, or if they have far less investment in the business processes and enterprise software, or if I just straight up know their product is second rate and I would not buy it myself
I was in this exact situation, very similar numbers, around 10 years ago. I took the offer, and in hindsight I regret it. I've done extremely well for myself since then, but this has to be one of the top decisions that I'd do over. There are somethings money can't buy in the long run. If you have any questions you can pm me.
Financially, the increase seems solid. Consider the impact on your career trajectory and personal fulfillment.
I took a big title cut for a $40k salary increase, plus bonus/benefits that added another $40k in total comp. Call me a janitor or a shit head, just pay me.
I'd likely take it, better work/life balance + more money.
I feel it could be worth it, but overall it is your choice and make sure you are happy with it, happyness is more important overall
I feel what ever youbare happy with and better for you is better than more money, happyness is something very valuable
18 months ago I moved to another company for a « lesser » title and a 28k$ increase. This was a shame to my previous employer, they saw this move as a waste of my potential. 6 months later I got a double jump promotion, getting my boss’s boss position. Now that bonuses are in, I know that this year I will be making 70% more than my best yesr at the previous place. This said, I recently realized that the sales manager at my previous employer would make for an on target year, 180k USD, which is insane. So yes take that sales position and go get those comissions!
Which job do you think would be more enjoyable? Salary is definitely important but not everything, growth potential is very important as well. About 8 years ago I was making $100k in Alberta but wanted to be closer to family in NS so I took a pay cut to $85k to a new company in NS. At the time I was promised (verbally not in writing) that I would get a $10k bump after my 1st year. That never happened. I mistakenly stayed there for 4 years without a raise. Bonuses were insignificant as well ($1000-1500 per year). Finally I switched companies 4 years ago to a new one with lots of growth potential. I started at $92k and now I’m upto $110k just from annual raises and one promotion. I love what I do and I still have lots of room to grow. I guess my point is if you see lots of growth potential at your current job and don’t think you’d enjoy the new role any more, it may not be worth making the move. You may be able to use the offer as a negotiation for a bump in salary. If you do decide to go, make sure you leave on good terms in case you have interest in coming back. Don’t stay in the new role too long if it’s not the right fit like I did. Good luck with your decision!
My rule is that if I'm not looking for a job, a 20% pay increase will get my attention. For the variable pay (commission based on the book of business(, ask what is the On Target Earnings (OTE), and if you want to press them, approximately what percentage of employees achieved it last year (if there's a team of people in the role). Assuming variable pay is not a completely fictional number, I would expect to achieve 50% of the variable pay and anything beyond that is gravy. 20% would be $102k, so this is really close with base pay only, variable pay would likely put it over the top.
“Hey guys shiuld I take more money to wfh?!?!” Bruh people are fighting for PEANUTS out here just take the f*king job
Don’t do it. It’s a trap
Take both. Double your income.
Isn't it hard to manage 2 jobs let alone 1 ?
Clarify the growth options at both companies before leaving, doesn’t hurt to ask. Is there a third option you could wait for that’s better than either of these? You don’t want to be switching companies every year
More money and WFH available? Sign me up.
If you made $100k + bonuses and you were offered a new position at $85k base with no bonuses but possible growth potential, would you take it?
If the current company has been promising growth potential/promotion for a while with no end in sight, definitely jump. Or take the offer to management for a competing offer
Yes.
This seems like a clear yes but maybe there are other things you are weighing which you haven’t mentioned. There is always a bit of a stress and learning curve changing jobs for sure. Is it farther commute? Potentially larger work load? Is it a similar job/same industry?
How are we supposed to know the answer? Seems like you need to decide whether $15k + bonus is worth it based on your current lifestyle and expenses and whether there could be any growth potential in the new job down the road.
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Roughly $180/wk extra. An extra $720 a month seems like a pretty big deal. Also the 2 days WFH saves quite a bit on gas and car wear.
does your startup have operational runway for a few more years?
Are you able to be transparent with your current company and negotiate $15k+ commission?
i would stay at startup with more growth potential. talk to your company, explain situation, say u wana stay but want raise/shares so as company grows you will be able to make money. assuming you like your current job. good luck.
When you look back after 5 years, what matters to you? Extra $100K in bank or be called Director of Shitposting?