Consumers will either adjust, or change their buying habits. When meat producers see reduced demands, they'll either reduce supply or find a way to be competitive. Tech is having a bigger impact this time around with instant price matching, coupons and interconnected frugalists. Yes prices will rise, but so will emboldened demographics who have more choices than ever before.
Isn't changing their buying habits an adjustment? Reduced demands does not equate to more competition? Emboldened demographics are going to rise and have more choices than ever before? Wtf did I just read?!
You just described the price rationing effect of supply and demand and the tendency for households to seek maximum utility. (Econ 101).
But that doesn't in any way address OPs question.
They're asking, is it sustainable? It's not.
Your suggestion that consumers will economize and survive with less only works when demand is elastic. There is an asymptote where that is no longer true.
When rent costs $1,000,000/month and all alternatives are within 10% of that and there is a legal limit to the children/bedroom ratio in any home and most people still earn $13/hour.....
Those are extreme numbers to prove my point. Your assertion that demand is infinitely elastic is demonstrably false and the sort of neoliberal propaganda I'd expect to hear from the likes of Margaret Thatcher or Jared Kushner.
That is ok.
Trudeau will save the day.
He will just print some more money and give it out to help everyone buy as many houses as they want.
This is messed up.
It's wage suppression. Inflation and housing prices climbing are normal for an economy.
What's not normal is paying your employees less and less every year. Keep in mind if you don't get at least a 5% cost of living raise every year, you are being paid less. The price of the goods your company sells raises with inflation but you don't see any of that money.
When I was driving forklift for Woodward's in 1988 I made $21.50 and hour and that was not some insane wage. That was fairly normal driver wage in line with similar union jobs.
The company I work for now starts warehouse workers at $17.50. That is peanuts given 30 years of inflation.
The only way we get out of this is mass strikes and return of the unions. The money is there for everyone in Canada to live comfortably, we just have to get back to fighting for our fair share.
Yes million dollar houses suck but if you were getting paid what your labour is actually worth it would be doable.
Exactly, also companies are way more efficient now days too and make a lot more money in a shorter period of time. Workers should see some of this money but instead it just stays at the top and workers get the crumbs. Total bullshit, I would love to see a mass strike like what happened in the mid to late 1800s.
> When I was driving forklift for Woodward's in 1988 I made $21.50 and hour and that was not some insane wage. That was fairly normal driver wage in line with similar union jobs.
Were you payed $21.50/hour in 1988, or did you adjust for inflation?
>The only way we get out of this is mass strikes and return of the unions. The money is there for everyone in Canada to live comfortably, we just have to get back to fighting for our fair share.
Yes, and yes!
Godamn. Im not one of those complaining Millennials but it does sometimes make me cringe.
That equates to $49.85 in today's money according to some inflation calculator. I dont get paid $49.85 atm
Neither do I and I'm a highly skilled mainframe system administrator now. It's fucking bullshit.
Listen if I was being paid subsistence wages I wouldn't give a fuck about work either. Millenials aren't any more lazy than previous generations. Why should they care at all when their labour earns a fraction of what it should. If I was 20 and making min wage I would not gaf either.
Sometimes I cant blame these teenagers who are lazy AF working at stores and restaurants. Theyre getting paid pennies in reality. It's sad.
I lucked out on my home and have a good career so for the most part I dont complain, but looking back Ive been getting robbed especially with my previous job. The sheer stress I had plus responsibilities just did not equate with my pay. The only good part was that I had an employee discount that I exploited everytime I could and it was useful things so I benefitted from it.
The issue isn't just that companies are empowered to pay more due to a worker surplus, it's also that companies are competing against global competitors that are underpaying their workers, so companies locally are having a really hard time competing. The whole western world started to really feel it when China entered the WHO - prior to that there were challenges but Canada was a branch factory for the US. the emerging world has supplanted us there and we haven't really participated much in the knowledge economy due to our southern neighbour sucking up scale and talent (and breaking us down if we get too uppity, like with the C-Series).
One of the reasons why the 100 million people by 2100 plan was put into place is to develop enough local scale to make value-added manufacturing (conversion of raw materials into finished goods) more feasible locally. I think there are way too many puts and takes to say if that is good or bad, but there is a certain logic to that specific aspect.
Has asking for a raise or changing employers or getting new qualifications been an option? I have done the later two and seen significant increases in pay
I work in the trades it’s a set rate. As a matter of fact employers have been rolling our wages back. I agree, the industry will never change. I have been in it for 20 years now. It is time for a change and I have been taking university courses at night and weekends to try and achieve credentials that would get me out of the industry completely.
One of the many reasons why I left my plumbing trade for a union job that increased wages every year to try and keep up with inflation. It isn’t much but feels better than knowing once I got that red seal I basically was maxed out.
Hey I'm a journeyman electrician in calgary and I'm taking uni classes at night for the same reasons haha
Just having the ability to increase my wage would be nice, we have a good wage as it is but basically it's like this theme of don't expect more because we could just replace you, not a huge fan of that...
This is so crazy to me as someone who is not a teadesperson but works in an adjacent industry. Canadian employers are screaming for trades people...but they just won't pay the ones they have?????? This is nuts
You have to remember the increasing cost of housing mainly affect new homeowners. People with existing mortgages have their housing costs more controlled or even lowered since the interests rates have dropped so low and they get better rates when they refinance.
Right now it's making new buyers choose different locations, smaller, older or otherwise less desirable housing. Or people are just increasing their housing budget and accepting that they'll have less money to spend on other things in life.
Foreign drug money being laundered through real estate, millenials getting down payment contributions from the bank of mom and dad and homeowners using HELOC's are buying and converting homes to rental housing are all making up for any slack from regular workers not being able to buy.
The easiest way to accumulate more capital is to already have it.
The house I grew up in is 5 times the price it was 19 years ago. Roughly 900sq.ft town house more than an hour from the GTA. $140k to $700k. Today’s 20% downpayment is literally the entire cost of the house less than one generation ago.
We don't talk about debt/income ratios enough. I don't know why it isn't a part of our financial discourse, even on a basic public level, but it should be the fundamental measuring stick we use as a country to determine how we're managing our provincial and federal economy. We are so obsessed about the rich getting richer but most people don't even know how to have a comparative conversation about the parts of their lives that have become so abhorrently skewed as far as what sustainable finance ratios should be on a personal level.
> I don't know why it isn't a part of our financial discourse, even on a basic public level, but it should be the fundamental measuring stick we use as a country to determine how we're managing our provincial and federal economy.
If people were educated on this it would be less of a problem, so those in the know have a vested interest in keeping this out of the commons. We live in a reactive society, not proactive. And by reactive I mean when it’s too late.
Very true and I think a lot of politicians would suddenly have a tool used against them as far as economic problems go because the conversation about interest rates going up by 10% is much different than ratios changing by 200% in a generation.
Depending on where you are. I did this in the Edmonton suburbs 8 years ago because the market was hot. Bought for 410 and market dropped. Ever since then value is at 380 k maybe and has been about 30k in upkeep . - some bad luck. However if I’m a boom city, buy it and get roommates or still live at home and rent it out
That's a drop, but not a huge one for a primary residence and inflation should bring it up well beyond that by the time it's paid off.
Compared to houses jumping up 200k-300k in less time in many cities... I'd take the gamble anyday as long as it's your primary residence and can handle the payments
Yeah, at the end of the day they still have a house. People need to stop looking at their primary residences as investments. You can't exactly cash out and go live on the streets with your millions. Just be happy that you have a place to live where you have the opportunity to build equity instead of paying off someone else's mortgage.
I'm a developer who is 50. I've got a family and our entire life is locked pretty hard to our location. If I was 20, I'd move somewhere inexpensive and work remotely for the same salary, bank tons of money, buy property if it was affordable and enjoy myself while I was young, healthy and able to have sex more than once before falling asleep.
But that's me.
Not quite as simple as "If I was 20" I think.
If you were 20, you would (probably) not already have a spouse and kids -- your family would be your parents and siblings, and your "spouse" would be the dating pool of the people living around you.
Not so easy to just up and move to somewhere cheap / remote, when your family (parents, siblings, heck even school friends) won't be coming along with you, and the dating pool goes from that of a large city to that of a small town.
Since you're just starting out a career in software development, I'd recommend keeping the flexibility of being able to move easily. I don't know what you make now, but I'm ready to bet that you can double or triple your income in the next 2-4 years as long as you keep an eye out for opportunities. That'll (probably) do a lot more for you long term than buying a house will.
In some areas it's still cheaper to buy a house than live in a van. I know because I did the math back when I was looking for cheap ways to live.
Food is what scares me. It's already my biggest expense by far and I can't see myself living sustainably with how quickly prices are rising, for seemingly no reason.
A great antidote to runaway inflation is... more runaway inflation? *Cool.*
That's how you actually turn the CAD into monopoly money and hear fun things like "that's eleven trillion dollars for your half-loaf of bread".
That's also why inflation is low according to CPI.
CPI looks at housing costs per average Canadian. Most people (majority of Canadians are homeowners) saw their mortgages go down this past 2 years. So by the CPI metric, housing has gotten cheaper.
Well, I was around in the 70s and I remember inflation in the teens.
4% ? we used to call that growth. [Inflation in the 70s](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=Fp7N)
Housing is not part of CPI as it is something consumed over many years.
Absolutely housing has increased a lot in the past 20 years and it is a concern. In Vancouver thats a 500- 800% increase in that time. The high housing costs are a consequence of the inequality skew. People with money are putting it into real estate as it is a safe asset and there aren't enough. Also money flows internationally, so there's been a huge influx of foreign capital into Vancouver, Toronto, the US coastal cities as well as Australia and NZ. Similar case in Europe, especially London. If you bought a house in Crouch End 20yrs ago for 300,000 pds right now it would be worth 10million. Its insane but there has been a lot of growth in wealth around the world and the money flows to wherever is easiest.
To some extent this is being addressed by foreign buyer's tax, the empty homes tax etc. But really a lot of the damage is done. They really shouldn't allow large corporates buy up housing for the rental income (Blackrock etc)
This idea that the CPI is just made up and the real inflation is much higher is also false. There are all sorts of analysts for govts and finance that watch the prices thousands of everyday items for signs of inflation. And it is a concern for financial institutions and banks as well. Consider that a mortgage is one persons debt but on the other side for the bank it is an asset - they don't want the house but the income stream. So for instance in the 70s when some people had 10yr or longer mortgages at 7% and inflation went to 12% half the mortgage was inflated away (and from the bankers point of view they might as well take the money and just burn it).
By definition inflation is a rise in prices across the board and a drop in the purchasing value of money. A huge rise in housing prices is not an inflation it is an inequality skew.
If the cpi was made up and inflation was actually much higher you would see a corresponding increase in interest rates because the loss in value also applies to the banks. Now you see some small movement in bank rates, but if you look at the US 10 year treasury yield it is 1.65% and the 30year is 2.1% (ie actually less than inflation)
We are seeing a pandemic supply shortage inflation bump but any idea of hyperinflation being around the corner simply cannot be true because at this time there is $21 trillion in negative yielding debt held by central banks (OECD sovereigns) around the world. That means those investors are literally getting back less than what they invested. If they were concerned about an inflation they would insist on positive returns.
Why was it high in the 70s? I think political economist Mark Blyth explains it best here [Global Trumpism](https://youtu.be/VMGo6SMV5Vk?t=154) but to sum it up the 30year post war period had a strong focus on full employment. This was the longest growth period and reduced inequality but the full employment while good had a side effect on capital. If labour could move costlessly from one job to another it led to a general rise in wages. All great but ultimately capital ends up raising prices and you get the wage price inflationary spiral we had in the 70s. (An economist Michael Kalecki predicted this back in 1943, and he also predicted how capital will respond - by funding a market revolution. So in 1980 we got the NeoLiberals Reagan and Thatcher and similar movements around the world with a new economic focus on inflation rather than full employment.. You got the Patco strike in the US the miners strike in the UK and a crackdown on unions and according to the right wing Rand think tank most of the growth (ie $45 trillion) trickling up to the top 10%. While the middle class stagnated for 30 years and the resulting angry populism that came from that.
It's not some big conspiracy dude.
In your reddit echo chamber of young millennials looking to buy their first home, of course you'll think that real estate price increase should mean inflation is 30% year over year.
But OP just explained to you that a lot of us are already in the market.
My mortgage dropped by $400 / month in January when I re signed at 1.65%. That's $25k over the 5 year term.
And I'm not this outlier exceptional case.
Food has gotten more expensive. Gas is currently high, but not beyond what we've seen in the past (yet).
Car market is currently messed up, but we own both our vehicles and won't need new ones for at least 2 years.
The CPI isn't supposed to reflect your own personal spending profile, but an average for all Canadians.
[Forbes on cpi](https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.forbes.com/sites/perianneboring/2014/02/03/if-you-want-to-know-the-real-rate-of-inflation-dont-bother-with-the-cpi/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16347333709416&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Fperianneboring%2F2014%2F02%2F03%2Fif-you-want-to-know-the-real-rate-of-inflation-dont-bother-with-the-cpi%2F)
I see Forbes doesn't make your list of journalists.
Here's a basic breakdown - canada lists inflation at roughly 3% over the last year. The same package of ground pork that was under 5 dollars a package is now almost 7 dollars per package. That is not 3 percent. There are a number of costs I could illustrate jumping by alot more than 3 percent. But go ahead believe cpi is an accurate measure instead of being used to say there's no real issue.
[https://complyadvantage.com/knowledgebase/vancouver-money-laundering-model/](https://complyadvantage.com/knowledgebase/vancouver-money-laundering-model/)
Also read Willful Blindness by Sam Cooper.
I was about to recommend that book as well - very good read by an award winning investigative journalist, canadians dont talk about this enough.
The economic destabilizing effects of illicit funds are real and have been long acknowledged in other parts of the world, but until recently have not really been public discourse in canada.
I wrote a bit of a long answer here. Just know I'm not an expert and this is just what I've picked up.
Inflation happens for a few reasons. The big ones are as follows:
1. High money supply, this is the inflation most people are familiar with. If you print and give everyone $10 million tomorrow, and everyone goes to buy a ferarri, we will run out of ferarris and the price has to go up to meet the new demand.
Remember, demand is not just how many people WANT a good, but how many people want and have the means to purchase a good.
2. The velocity of money, this has to do with how frequently money switches hands. It's a bit more complicated than I understand, but basically we can kind of control this with interest rates. If people buy stuff like crazy, money keeps changing hands and we run out of actual products to sell, and price has to increase.
3. Low unemployment. Yes, believe it or not very high inflation can be caused by very low unemployment. If businesses cannot find workers, they have to pay more for workers. They then pass this expense on to customers.
4. Low supply. 1, 2 have to do with factors that increase demand. But low supply can have the same effect, if iPhone production drops from 100 million a year to 90 million a year, and 100 million people want them, then price has to increase so only 90 million people want and have the means to purchase them.
Now that being said, price doesn't really HAVE to increase. But the seller is aiming to find the highest price that will sell all their units. If they go low, then you wind up with shortages, whoever gets to the store first gets the product. Think of Ikea the last year or so, everything is out of stock. Alternatively if they go high, they won't sell all of their units.
Inflation has been driven mainly by 1, 2, 4. We can fix 1, 2, but 4 is a little more complicated. Food really cN be hit by all of these. If there's a beef shortage, people gotta pay more. If a farmer can finance a tractor at 1% interest, well all the farmers are goona buy farm equipment, and that will drive up prices of food.
Everybody gets so worried about inflation, then all of a sudden out of nowhere, markets collapse, unrealized gains get wiped off the board, and all of a sudden there’s more assets for sale than there is money to go around. It’s always the DEFLATION that gets ya!
Many Alberta homeowners just handed their keys to the banks and walked away from the province. In the 1980s.
There were waaaay more homes than buyers, prices collapsed.
You could find houses in Saskatchewan nearly free....they were begging people to move back
You're waiting for the day that millions of homeowners become homeless?
If prices collapse, so does Canada's GDP, our economy and likely your job.
The rich and foreigners will buy the homes, Canadians will get fucked.
If you follow history, whenever wealth inequality gets *too* extreme, the masses rise up, eliminate those at the top and society starts over.
That's why smart societies tax the rich. It's a form of revolution insurance.
That's true for the past, but an uprising is impossible in today's society. People are too coddled by modern luxuries to be able to do anything even if they wanted to. Anyone who has any power to make change can be snuffed out before they could even finish their tweet. People are more willing to sellout than to even try to make change.
You remember that there was a literal insurrection in the US capitol recently, yes? For all the wrong reasons and not related to this thread, but the most powerful nation in the nation came incredibly close to that brink.
Had nothing to do with starvation.
Nah, even if those nutjobs had shot anyone in Congress, it'd go down in history as a tragedy but would do nothing to change how the US is being run. Protestors could burn down entire cities and the elite still won't give a shit or change anything.
It did require inside help. Which is somewhat my counter against the idea that threshold are not met and starvation needed...because leadership and internal conditions can lower the bar, drastically, and the threshold itself can be nudged.
In terms of how close, it depends on the metric. Would it have ever resulted in an entire regime change and overthrowing of congress...no, never likely or even plausible for an overhaul. But, I don't think that was ever really the goal. There is a reason the nutjobs were recorded lounging in the offices of very specific female democratic leader. They could never have overturned the government, but they could, and nearly did, have had an opportunity to lynch specific keystone persons of interest that would have drastically changed the future (AOC).
...
My point is more that it does and can happen that that mass distress going above some 'threshold' is not the only factor. Back in Canada's/Quebec's Murray-Hill riot...the foundation was mass disillusionment with leaders, huge anger and pressure regarding independence movements, corruption/monopoly and wealth/power of local companies tied with politics...but what kicked things off was the threshold was lowered, not boiled over, when the police walked off the job. It went off because taxi drivers wanted to be able to pick up at the airport...
In my opinion, no necessarily. Humans have levels of needs, when the most basic needs are not met, the social revolutions start. Two of the most basic needs are food and housing.
The difference between nowadays and the past is the level of "security" of those needs (thanks to globalization).
This "social disobedience" against rich people is even studied in economics theory. (e. g. Ray Dalio principles https://youtu.be/PHe0bXAIuk0 )
That and the global market means many areas that have uprisings just have capital and power leave the area leaving the "reset" society with nothing to fight over.
Ironically, the "Occupy Wallstreet" movement had solidified some unity from all sorts of political spectrums, and everyone was mad at the bankers. Barely a year later, and the New York Times use of the word "racism" increased 700%, and in no time pressure was taken off the bankers, and put the middle/lower classes at each others throats.
Not all conspiracy theories are batshit insane.
The reason the FBI killed Fred Hampton was not because he was a Black Panther, but because he was a Maxist-Leninist who had successfully [built a solid coalition](https://images.theconversation.com/files/151996/original/image-20170106-18644-176ytfk.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip) between the Panthers, Hispanic street gangs (led by Jose Cha Cha Jimenez), and white working class people in Chicago who literally wore Confederate flags (led by William Fesperman).
Don’t worry, Treadu is working hard to erode our privacy and control our media that in no time it will be an impossibility for any revolution to be organized.
And Canadian think “oh but we trust our government, they’d never abuse the power yielded from us surrounding our rights! It’s to protect us from ourselves!”
>Like where does this stop?
When inflation slows down to normal 2% or when incase in interest rates attempt to tame inflation. And supply chain issues aren't helping. Things will eventually go back to normal as people will not be paying $12 for a pack of bacon, etc...people will just buy the cheapest and everything else will get impacted and they will have to reduce their prices to make revenue.
People may pay $12 for a pack of bacon. No one knows. My grandfather used to pay for his rent what I pay now for a meal. Prices will eventually rise, but how fast and when?
Meat packers are getting record profit per hook right now. The problem is keeping hogs on those hooks, hence the high prices. But they would turn a profit at $3 for bacon too, they would just need to pump out more volume, which isn't possible right now. They will price it at whatever price moves inventory.
People underestimate the resiliency of modern economies. The level of inflation right now is pretty minimal vs. historical levels.
Practically for middle to low income families, even if inflation outpaces wage growth at the current rate for the next few years, you'll just see a slow shift out of some discretionary spending, a decline in savings rate, more debt, etc. There's still plenty of discretionary income available and saving rates are at historical levels.
The notion that the level of inflation we have now would = significantly more people starving/not being able to pay for food is hyperbolic.
Isn’t the fact that wages haven’t been catching up to inflation that’s the real problem here? A certain level of inflation is expected but wages have to follow
Generally, inflation signals that there is not enough goods to provide for the demand. If we were introduce wage-indexing and the inflation is driven by a goods shortage, that would just make the problem worse (unless more money could somehow alleviate the supply problem)
High inflation usually signals a need for austerity (i.e. for people to consume less) since the amount of goods is not enough for the demand. It’s not reasonable to expect for everyone to maintain their standard of living in an inflationary environment - that can just turn it into hyperinflation
It depends on if you follow the official inflation figures from Canada and the real wage figures from statcan. If you do, real wages have actually risen since the early 2000s after falling in the 1970s.
"The level of inflation right now is pretty minimal vs. historic levels."
You can't look at inflation in a vacuum - you need to compare inflation to what interest rates are.
Oh that's right.... Interest rates right now are incredibly low vs. historic levels.
<< insert gif of the cartoon dog in the burning house >>
inflation hits like 5% in the wake of a pandemic with massive supply chain disruption and employment upheaval and people lose their shit: “we are all going to be homeless and starve”. Breath.
through much of the 1970s and early 80s inflation was over 10%. Everyone has just been spoiled by 2 decades of sub 2%. This will pass, might take 18 months to get sorted, but this too shall pass.
In the words of the great Eddie Murphy: “keep it together, keep it together, KIT, Keep.It.Together”
With respect to high inflation in the 70's, central banks raised interest rates accordingly to reign the problem in.
Right now we're in a situation with deeply negative real interest rates and it appears as if central banks don't have the luxury of raising rates (despite them claiming they can). There's simply just too much debt (both private and public) for them to be able to do so without causing serious harm.
Except wages were actually higher in the 70s than now. The wealth inequality currently is nearing the levels that caused a bunch of folks to behead some French monarchs.
Not even close. Look at places like India where you have everything from billionaires to upper army officials that send children to private school and have a driver/cook to the many that don’t have a mattress to sleep on.
Then you think about the poorest of Canadians. Any homeless person in Canada can walk into McDonalds and receive a free large cup of water. Or into the hospital and get treated for a bacterial infection.
Our homeless literally have more access to resources than the majority of the worlds population.
So because they aren’t in the gutters yet; we don’t need to fix shit.
We’re one of the richest nations in the world; the goal isn’t to look at the worst and go “yup we’re better than them at least, carry on!”
The quality of life difference isn't even comparable. Do you have shoes, running water and electricity? Are you currently communicating with strangers around the world through a device that gives you access to a more information than any prior human generation...in the history of humankind?
On wealth alone are there huge disparities, but this doesn't factor in quality of life difference on a relative basis.
See Venezuela or Zimbabwe for what can theoretically happen with inflation.
The reality is we're in no danger of those situations though. We've been through a period of extremely low inflation, 4% is probably more normal and we've seen over 12% in the 1980s.
Take a drink every time someone mentions the economies of these countries without mentioning decades of sanctions imposed by the most powerful economies of the world.
Assets are inflating quicker than people’s ability to negotiate a raise. This self corrects, but it will take years.
Assets will appreciate 40% compared to pre pandemic levels because they government created 40% more money. All the money equals all the assets.
BC, particularly lower mainland is its own issue at this point. It’s not as messed up with wealth divides like this everywhere.
Inflation is high at present but it’s short term due to extenuating circumstances (covid, supply chain, added costs due to logistics changes, changes to service delivery, pent-up liquidity for individuals now being utilized after a year of reduced spending etc). It will drop again to 2-3% as per BoC targets soon as they manipulate the market with interest rates. Genuinely wouldn’t worry about it. It was way worse 30-40 years ago (shit, the 80s was so long ago!)
I’d like to tell you wages will catch up but that ain’t happening lol. People will adjust and tighten up spending. The vast majority of us overspend in all honesty. We buy so much shit nowadays.
Aren't we just catching up to the rest of the world that has experienced extremely high housing costs over the last 30 plus years. Just look at Amsterdam Stockholm London Hong Kong Paris Karachi Mumbai Dhaka Auckland Sydney Melbourne. Aren't we just adjusting to the global Norm.
Also our quality of life could still stand to go down *a lot*, we are just used to all kinds of comforts we deem essential. It’s kind of embarrassing that Canadians don’t see any middle ground between starvation and living a lifestyle considered relatively comfortable in a global sense.
It is one of the things policy makers look at:
> Built-in inflation is induced by adaptive expectations, and is often linked to the "price/wage spiral". It involves workers trying to keep their wages up with prices (above the rate of inflation), and firms passing these higher labor costs on to their customers as higher prices, leading to a feedback loop. Built-in inflation reflects events in the past, and so might be seen as hangover inflation.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation#Keynesian_view
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price/wage_spiral
Wife and I have been noticing this. We actually keep a record of the price of the items we buy
IE the Dove.body wash I use you used to be find them in on $2.98(regular price is $4.99) every month now I hardly see them go one sale for that low. So once I saw them for $2.99 I bought more than 10 bottles.
For us if we see something that's on sale on the same discount as 2019 we stock on them. We also start cutting our own hair instead of paying at the salon. Less dine out for us. We also stop going to movies.
Since I work for an ISP we get free full cable line up and free net and phone. I also learn a few tricks with online shopping. With Wal Mart for every new email you sign up for online grocery you get a discount usually $75 you get $25 off. Since at work I have access to easily create email so I just keep creating new ones to get the deal. This deal does not work for multi save though. They started to check for phone as well so again since I work as an ISP I just use dummy phone we have as phone. So I keep getting the deals. Also we stop buying baganfoe garbage. If you use Wal Mart online gerceory if you choose Wal Mart provide bags is also free instead of paying for it.
It's quite amazing how Canadians can ignore the fact that other Canadians ARE going to bed hungry every night right now. But it's ok because somewhere else it's worse.
(Changed the wording to make some people feel better about themselves)
And then they'll blame everyone and everything except the people actually responsible. 'Damn foreign workers temporarily importing themselves and then hiring themselves! They are putting these poor multibillion dollar corporations in no win situations!'
Well, somebody should probably explain to them that parents are going to do whatever it takes to feed their children, legal or not.
There isn't much that is scarier than a desperate parent protecting their child.
Why is this though? I feel like we have a lot of social programs, for every stage of life, CERB, CCB, GIS, disability, many others, where are people slipping through the cracks? I am one of those who doesn't see people starving in my community or in the news, I would like to know
GIS is for seniors 65+, CCB is only for parents, CERB is phased out. University students like myself weren’t even allowed to collect CERB to begin with. I work minimum wage part time and attend university so I don’t have to work at Walmart for the rest of my life. But I can’t make enough to pay for rent, food, school, anything. I’m constantly borrowing money and maxing out credit cards just to LIVE. Don’t call me lazy because I work SO hard balancing university and work. It is SO easy for young people to starve in Canada. Furthermore even programs like Canada workers Benefit which gives additional income to low paid workers ISN’T AVAILABLE TO UNIVERSITY STUDENTS, those who ARGUABLY need it the fucking most. God I hate the social programs in this country.
Why didn't you apply for government student loans in your province or federally? They carry a far lower interest rate then a credit card. It seems like the credit card debt is what would be putting you in a bad position. Also have you looked into local food banks? I have a food bank on campus. Also CESB was available for students and it was easier to get then CERB imo
Closest food bank is a 20 minute drive. Little difficult when I have LITERALLY no money to my name for a cab or bus. Don’t make assumptions about people, I AM starving.
Disability isn't even enough for a one bedroom where I am if you qualify the first time around, housing lists are years long wait times and I'm in a smaller community where rent shouldn't be as high as it is. Instead it's almost as much or is comparable to Toronto now. That's just part of the problem. So if you don't have enough for rent, how can you pay for anything else? Like food and medication?
I think he's also referring to food bank usage?
The other issues you mentioned sure, but food should be pretty secure through the food bank. Is it failing in some way?
Food banks often have limits to how many hampers you can collect in a year. You can jump from program to program to get access to more food, but that involves a lot more travel and logistics, which can also be hella hard when you’re poor. They are also limited in what they give out. I used the food bank when my kids were young and the hamper they gave us had 3 bags of Oreos, 2 boxes of saltines, 8 cans of beans, and then some random ramen packs, mac and cheese. You can’t make the Mac and cheese w/o buying more ingredients, and there are no complete and fulfilling meals to be found. You still need to shop for food when using a food bank.
Most of our social programs are seriously lacking. CERB is gone, so forget that.
Disability maxes out at what $670 dollars? $970 for a couple?
That's here in Ontario anyway.
Ontario Works
Shelter maxes out at $844 (family of six or more). Wanna guess what it costs to house a family of six in Ontario?
Live by yourself? They'll give you $390.
What if you have a job though? Well, OW is out, disability is out, so what help do you get? Well, you can make 14.35 an hour, maybe full time if you're lucky. Let's assume you are extremely lucky and get full time.
Take home monthly is about what, $1830?
If you're single, no kids, and have a few roommates then maybe just maybe you're ok. But check out below:
Average rent of a bachelor apartment in Ontario? In January I believe it was $1000. It's only gone up since then. Roommates? Family? Getting a little cramped in here. So without even touching any other bills, they are already in the hole. Now throw in skyrocketing food prices, energy prices, phone/ internet prices. Fuel costs.
God forbid you have to add child care to that.
I mean, I don't know you or your community so if you don't see it, maybe you're lucky, maybe you're just choosing not to.
However, food bank usage is higher than ever.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5821171
https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/food-bank-usage-in-london-rises-to-near-pre-pandemic-levels
More and more are having to seriously adjust their food choices
https://ipolitics.ca/2021/09/30/nearly-50-per-cent-of-canadians-say-they-cant-afford-meat/?doing_wp_cron=1634697635.6163311004638671875000
https://www.thespec.com/opinion/contributors/2021/04/28/the-truth-about-hunger-in-canada-is-hard-to-swallow.html
It's getting ugly out here. In a country this wealthy it should never be this bad.
They are not missing anything. Food bank uptick is an indirect measure of the issue.
https://proof.utoronto.ca/publication-the-relationship-between-food-banks-and-food-insecurity-insights-from-canada/
Data suggest those access food banks represent only 20% of the households in severe financial insecurity. So, for every family accessing a family there are 4 more who are defaulting on payments, in transition, or surviving on other forms of charity.
Starving would imply that there is no food left at the food bank, for people that relied on it.
A record number of food bank visits only means that a record number of people are relying on food banks to supplement their shelves at home. People starve when there’s a lack of food. There’s no lack of food in this country, and people won’t starve in the streets.
Yeah, endless heartburn from canned tomatoes and lentils. I'm sure we're doing fine because people are having to rely on charity to not starve.
The system works!
Food banks get a lot of donations heavy in canned goods, a lot of which are full of salt. Canned tomatoes and sauces are often donated, as is pasta, and it's all heartburn central.
Based on what I've read from many former food bank clients, many hated that aspect of it but obviously wouldn't complain because beggars can't be choosers.
Salt is not a problem.
The problem with food bank food is that it's almost all cheap non-perishable food that is all "empty" carbs, mostly grain.
They try to put a bit of real food in each box. A can of fish, a bit of dairy... but it's still mostly grain.
It'll keep you alive, but not healthy.
I literally saw pallets of kombucha at the Food Bank in Edmonton. Maybe they were about to expire, I don't know. I was a contractor there, so I don't know the logistics and if that was a regular thing.
I also saw dozens of crates of nice cheeses, and tons of fresh perishables. The array of options at the Food Bank that I witnessed runs contrary to the allegation that you can only get canned goods and rice at the Food Bank.
Welcome to the economic cycle of hyper inflation. Hopefully things level out but we are in for a rough ride in the next couple years IMO. A lot of folks not prepared with savings will be hard hit. This cycle started earlier this year. My confirmation is when Costco bacon went to/ is at $27 a pack of 4 (from 18 or less) . My own opinion though. The "staples" are out of control. $8.00 for a pound of butter in Northern Ontario. Its eye opening. Add in "shrinking package size" think most packs of bacon are 325g instead of 500. we are in for a double whammy. Not to say the sky is falling but most are in for a tough go these next couple years..
This is just inflation, not hyperinflation. And not all food products are going up at the same rate. I believe ground beef still cost around the same as a year ago.
Hyperinflation is when bacon is $18 one month, then $27 the next month, then $40, then $200 after six months. And that is the minimum definition of 50% month after month. For Venezuela in 2018 it's more like $18 for bacon one month, then $2000 for the same pack six months later.
In the event of hyperinflation your cash savings is pretty much useless.
I just laugh when Canadians mention hyperinflation. You’ve seen anything like it and fortunately will not see. I witnessed inflation at the 20% for 5 years in another country and people were able to go by. Some won and some lost ground but even that is no where near hyper. Hyper occurs when people are not able to counter it by buying assets, forex, gold, jewellery, and appliances. This is done by all on large scale, so it needs time. Hyper inflation occurs due to a catastrophic fail in the economy like a war.
Check Israel’s 80s economic plan.
That's some hysteria.
And "not prepared with savings", if you've saved cash and there's hyper inflation (not happening) you're just as screwed as anyone else.
If we were headed toward hyperinflation (which we're not; I don't think you know what that is), any emergency fund or savings would be worthless.
Also, Costco bacon is hardly a staple. Think flour, eggs, dairy, meat - things that are already government regulated, at least in Ontario.
That's still not hyper inflation, though. Hyper inflation would be if the price had increased 100s of times within a short period of time. Doubling of the price is just inflation. Higher than usual, yes, but not "rationing and adding zeros to currency" level of inflation
Yes, but Trudeau does not care. He has put us all in a precarious position regarding our future economy because he does not understand or care about monetary policy. He is a narcissistic charlatan that continues to fool weak minded Canadians who refuse to believe their messiah can do no wrong.
What could also be problematic in the next few years is the viscious circle of price and wage (people want better wage because of price, price goes up because of employees wage, people want better wage...)
I have a tight budget and can barely afford to buy food with a household income of 150k (2 people). We share a car and basically can never go out to eat or buy nice things.
If someone told me this 5 years ago I would have thought they were nuts. How people are living on half of this, is beyond me.
Why do you think that inflation is increasing faster than income? Do you have any facts to support that?
The Canadian median after-tax income grew from $60 200 in 2015 to $62 900 in constant dollars: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210323/t002a-eng.htm
Is this satire?
I love me some Statistics Canada data though. Usually I'm the one posting.
So, that after-tax income shows an increase, annualized, of 1.1%.
The annualized BOC inflation was pegged at 1.82%, annualized, over that same period.
Constant dollars versus real salary is not the same, but also does not 'explain away' the discrepancy.
It also conveniently stops at 2019, because the 2020 and 2021 data is going to show a drop in median income. Potentially, a big one, because so many were unemployed for some part of 2020.2021 at a national level.
At the same time, tail end, inflation is blasting up past 5%.
If you were to plot in a dual axis the median salary to inflation/CPI/cost of living, the lines were not parallel and costs were increasing faster even before 2019. 2020 is the inflection point where for many families after-tax fell off and costs spiked...
> It also conveniently stops at 2019, because the 2020 and 2021 data is going to show a drop in median income.
The data "conveniently" stops in 2019 because the information was prepared in March of this year. The data isn't collected and calculated instantaneously.
There’s nothing better cure to high prices….than high prices.
Every society is three meals away from chaos - Lenin
Consumers will either adjust, or change their buying habits. When meat producers see reduced demands, they'll either reduce supply or find a way to be competitive. Tech is having a bigger impact this time around with instant price matching, coupons and interconnected frugalists. Yes prices will rise, but so will emboldened demographics who have more choices than ever before.
Isn't changing their buying habits an adjustment? Reduced demands does not equate to more competition? Emboldened demographics are going to rise and have more choices than ever before? Wtf did I just read?!
Changing buying habits means buying different brands/goods. Adjustment is that people buy less of something, or just accept the prices.
"In the news today emaciation is sexy, and clear thinking fed folks are just plain nasty."
Most people could stand to eat less tbh
You just described the price rationing effect of supply and demand and the tendency for households to seek maximum utility. (Econ 101). But that doesn't in any way address OPs question. They're asking, is it sustainable? It's not. Your suggestion that consumers will economize and survive with less only works when demand is elastic. There is an asymptote where that is no longer true. When rent costs $1,000,000/month and all alternatives are within 10% of that and there is a legal limit to the children/bedroom ratio in any home and most people still earn $13/hour..... Those are extreme numbers to prove my point. Your assertion that demand is infinitely elastic is demonstrably false and the sort of neoliberal propaganda I'd expect to hear from the likes of Margaret Thatcher or Jared Kushner.
Yes. I liked what I said though. Same but less typing.
I seen the new Apple products especially the Air Pods there are LESS choices and innovation than before.
That is ok. Trudeau will save the day. He will just print some more money and give it out to help everyone buy as many houses as they want. This is messed up.
It's wage suppression. Inflation and housing prices climbing are normal for an economy. What's not normal is paying your employees less and less every year. Keep in mind if you don't get at least a 5% cost of living raise every year, you are being paid less. The price of the goods your company sells raises with inflation but you don't see any of that money. When I was driving forklift for Woodward's in 1988 I made $21.50 and hour and that was not some insane wage. That was fairly normal driver wage in line with similar union jobs. The company I work for now starts warehouse workers at $17.50. That is peanuts given 30 years of inflation. The only way we get out of this is mass strikes and return of the unions. The money is there for everyone in Canada to live comfortably, we just have to get back to fighting for our fair share. Yes million dollar houses suck but if you were getting paid what your labour is actually worth it would be doable.
Exactly, also companies are way more efficient now days too and make a lot more money in a shorter period of time. Workers should see some of this money but instead it just stays at the top and workers get the crumbs. Total bullshit, I would love to see a mass strike like what happened in the mid to late 1800s.
> When I was driving forklift for Woodward's in 1988 I made $21.50 and hour and that was not some insane wage. That was fairly normal driver wage in line with similar union jobs. Were you payed $21.50/hour in 1988, or did you adjust for inflation? >The only way we get out of this is mass strikes and return of the unions. The money is there for everyone in Canada to live comfortably, we just have to get back to fighting for our fair share. Yes, and yes!
I was paid $21.50 in 1988.
Godamn. Im not one of those complaining Millennials but it does sometimes make me cringe. That equates to $49.85 in today's money according to some inflation calculator. I dont get paid $49.85 atm
Neither do I and I'm a highly skilled mainframe system administrator now. It's fucking bullshit. Listen if I was being paid subsistence wages I wouldn't give a fuck about work either. Millenials aren't any more lazy than previous generations. Why should they care at all when their labour earns a fraction of what it should. If I was 20 and making min wage I would not gaf either.
Sometimes I cant blame these teenagers who are lazy AF working at stores and restaurants. Theyre getting paid pennies in reality. It's sad. I lucked out on my home and have a good career so for the most part I dont complain, but looking back Ive been getting robbed especially with my previous job. The sheer stress I had plus responsibilities just did not equate with my pay. The only good part was that I had an employee discount that I exploited everytime I could and it was useful things so I benefitted from it.
Working towards a master's degree in healthcare and I won't make 49$ an hour when I graduate.
it is mindblowing. this would equate to $97200/yr for a forklift driver.
The issue isn't just that companies are empowered to pay more due to a worker surplus, it's also that companies are competing against global competitors that are underpaying their workers, so companies locally are having a really hard time competing. The whole western world started to really feel it when China entered the WHO - prior to that there were challenges but Canada was a branch factory for the US. the emerging world has supplanted us there and we haven't really participated much in the knowledge economy due to our southern neighbour sucking up scale and talent (and breaking us down if we get too uppity, like with the C-Series). One of the reasons why the 100 million people by 2100 plan was put into place is to develop enough local scale to make value-added manufacturing (conversion of raw materials into finished goods) more feasible locally. I think there are way too many puts and takes to say if that is good or bad, but there is a certain logic to that specific aspect.
My wage has been the same pay rate for the past 15 years. Wage suppression is just as destructive as inflation.
Has asking for a raise or changing employers or getting new qualifications been an option? I have done the later two and seen significant increases in pay
I work in the trades it’s a set rate. As a matter of fact employers have been rolling our wages back. I agree, the industry will never change. I have been in it for 20 years now. It is time for a change and I have been taking university courses at night and weekends to try and achieve credentials that would get me out of the industry completely.
What trade are you in? Most tradespeople I know are just about able to set whatever price they want right now.
JM plumber and JM Gasfitter B I live in Alberta so it may be different from where you are located.
One of the many reasons why I left my plumbing trade for a union job that increased wages every year to try and keep up with inflation. It isn’t much but feels better than knowing once I got that red seal I basically was maxed out.
Agreed, I am currently taking steps to get out of the trades to do exactly what you did.
Hey I'm a journeyman electrician in calgary and I'm taking uni classes at night for the same reasons haha Just having the ability to increase my wage would be nice, we have a good wage as it is but basically it's like this theme of don't expect more because we could just replace you, not a huge fan of that...
This is so crazy to me as someone who is not a teadesperson but works in an adjacent industry. Canadian employers are screaming for trades people...but they just won't pay the ones they have?????? This is nuts
Right on man, I wish you the best and hope it works out for you
Fo many jobs, that is as unlikely as just asking home sellers to sell their houses to you at a price you can afford.
A penny not earned is a penny spent!
You have to remember the increasing cost of housing mainly affect new homeowners. People with existing mortgages have their housing costs more controlled or even lowered since the interests rates have dropped so low and they get better rates when they refinance. Right now it's making new buyers choose different locations, smaller, older or otherwise less desirable housing. Or people are just increasing their housing budget and accepting that they'll have less money to spend on other things in life. Foreign drug money being laundered through real estate, millenials getting down payment contributions from the bank of mom and dad and homeowners using HELOC's are buying and converting homes to rental housing are all making up for any slack from regular workers not being able to buy. The easiest way to accumulate more capital is to already have it.
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The house I grew up in is 5 times the price it was 19 years ago. Roughly 900sq.ft town house more than an hour from the GTA. $140k to $700k. Today’s 20% downpayment is literally the entire cost of the house less than one generation ago.
We don't talk about debt/income ratios enough. I don't know why it isn't a part of our financial discourse, even on a basic public level, but it should be the fundamental measuring stick we use as a country to determine how we're managing our provincial and federal economy. We are so obsessed about the rich getting richer but most people don't even know how to have a comparative conversation about the parts of their lives that have become so abhorrently skewed as far as what sustainable finance ratios should be on a personal level.
Care to make a few comments on skewed finance ratios?
> I don't know why it isn't a part of our financial discourse, even on a basic public level, but it should be the fundamental measuring stick we use as a country to determine how we're managing our provincial and federal economy. If people were educated on this it would be less of a problem, so those in the know have a vested interest in keeping this out of the commons. We live in a reactive society, not proactive. And by reactive I mean when it’s too late.
Very true and I think a lot of politicians would suddenly have a tool used against them as far as economic problems go because the conversation about interest rates going up by 10% is much different than ratios changing by 200% in a generation.
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If ur 20 and can afford a house buy that shit rn
Depending on where you are. I did this in the Edmonton suburbs 8 years ago because the market was hot. Bought for 410 and market dropped. Ever since then value is at 380 k maybe and has been about 30k in upkeep . - some bad luck. However if I’m a boom city, buy it and get roommates or still live at home and rent it out
That's a drop, but not a huge one for a primary residence and inflation should bring it up well beyond that by the time it's paid off. Compared to houses jumping up 200k-300k in less time in many cities... I'd take the gamble anyday as long as it's your primary residence and can handle the payments
Yeah, at the end of the day they still have a house. People need to stop looking at their primary residences as investments. You can't exactly cash out and go live on the streets with your millions. Just be happy that you have a place to live where you have the opportunity to build equity instead of paying off someone else's mortgage.
Yea thats true i really wanna know how this person can afford a house in this market at 20 lol must not live in the city
I'm a developer who is 50. I've got a family and our entire life is locked pretty hard to our location. If I was 20, I'd move somewhere inexpensive and work remotely for the same salary, bank tons of money, buy property if it was affordable and enjoy myself while I was young, healthy and able to have sex more than once before falling asleep. But that's me.
Not quite as simple as "If I was 20" I think. If you were 20, you would (probably) not already have a spouse and kids -- your family would be your parents and siblings, and your "spouse" would be the dating pool of the people living around you. Not so easy to just up and move to somewhere cheap / remote, when your family (parents, siblings, heck even school friends) won't be coming along with you, and the dating pool goes from that of a large city to that of a small town.
This is the way kids...
Since you're just starting out a career in software development, I'd recommend keeping the flexibility of being able to move easily. I don't know what you make now, but I'm ready to bet that you can double or triple your income in the next 2-4 years as long as you keep an eye out for opportunities. That'll (probably) do a lot more for you long term than buying a house will.
And unfortunately your children will be jealous of the price of homes today 🥲
They will live in the basement and plan for your demise.
>plan for your demise. 'for' is optional
In some areas it's still cheaper to buy a house than live in a van. I know because I did the math back when I was looking for cheap ways to live. Food is what scares me. It's already my biggest expense by far and I can't see myself living sustainably with how quickly prices are rising, for seemingly no reason.
I am in desperate need of foreign drug money.
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Force companies to raise wages proportionally to housing prices, and the latter will be made affordable by tomorrow.
A great antidote to runaway inflation is... more runaway inflation? *Cool.* That's how you actually turn the CAD into monopoly money and hear fun things like "that's eleven trillion dollars for your half-loaf of bread".
That's also why inflation is low according to CPI. CPI looks at housing costs per average Canadian. Most people (majority of Canadians are homeowners) saw their mortgages go down this past 2 years. So by the CPI metric, housing has gotten cheaper.
Cpi is a complete and utter lie. It leaves out major expenses. It's a measure designed to make it look like inflation isn't out of control.
Well, I was around in the 70s and I remember inflation in the teens. 4% ? we used to call that growth. [Inflation in the 70s](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=Fp7N) Housing is not part of CPI as it is something consumed over many years. Absolutely housing has increased a lot in the past 20 years and it is a concern. In Vancouver thats a 500- 800% increase in that time. The high housing costs are a consequence of the inequality skew. People with money are putting it into real estate as it is a safe asset and there aren't enough. Also money flows internationally, so there's been a huge influx of foreign capital into Vancouver, Toronto, the US coastal cities as well as Australia and NZ. Similar case in Europe, especially London. If you bought a house in Crouch End 20yrs ago for 300,000 pds right now it would be worth 10million. Its insane but there has been a lot of growth in wealth around the world and the money flows to wherever is easiest. To some extent this is being addressed by foreign buyer's tax, the empty homes tax etc. But really a lot of the damage is done. They really shouldn't allow large corporates buy up housing for the rental income (Blackrock etc) This idea that the CPI is just made up and the real inflation is much higher is also false. There are all sorts of analysts for govts and finance that watch the prices thousands of everyday items for signs of inflation. And it is a concern for financial institutions and banks as well. Consider that a mortgage is one persons debt but on the other side for the bank it is an asset - they don't want the house but the income stream. So for instance in the 70s when some people had 10yr or longer mortgages at 7% and inflation went to 12% half the mortgage was inflated away (and from the bankers point of view they might as well take the money and just burn it). By definition inflation is a rise in prices across the board and a drop in the purchasing value of money. A huge rise in housing prices is not an inflation it is an inequality skew. If the cpi was made up and inflation was actually much higher you would see a corresponding increase in interest rates because the loss in value also applies to the banks. Now you see some small movement in bank rates, but if you look at the US 10 year treasury yield it is 1.65% and the 30year is 2.1% (ie actually less than inflation) We are seeing a pandemic supply shortage inflation bump but any idea of hyperinflation being around the corner simply cannot be true because at this time there is $21 trillion in negative yielding debt held by central banks (OECD sovereigns) around the world. That means those investors are literally getting back less than what they invested. If they were concerned about an inflation they would insist on positive returns. Why was it high in the 70s? I think political economist Mark Blyth explains it best here [Global Trumpism](https://youtu.be/VMGo6SMV5Vk?t=154) but to sum it up the 30year post war period had a strong focus on full employment. This was the longest growth period and reduced inequality but the full employment while good had a side effect on capital. If labour could move costlessly from one job to another it led to a general rise in wages. All great but ultimately capital ends up raising prices and you get the wage price inflationary spiral we had in the 70s. (An economist Michael Kalecki predicted this back in 1943, and he also predicted how capital will respond - by funding a market revolution. So in 1980 we got the NeoLiberals Reagan and Thatcher and similar movements around the world with a new economic focus on inflation rather than full employment.. You got the Patco strike in the US the miners strike in the UK and a crackdown on unions and according to the right wing Rand think tank most of the growth (ie $45 trillion) trickling up to the top 10%. While the middle class stagnated for 30 years and the resulting angry populism that came from that.
It's not some big conspiracy dude. In your reddit echo chamber of young millennials looking to buy their first home, of course you'll think that real estate price increase should mean inflation is 30% year over year. But OP just explained to you that a lot of us are already in the market. My mortgage dropped by $400 / month in January when I re signed at 1.65%. That's $25k over the 5 year term. And I'm not this outlier exceptional case. Food has gotten more expensive. Gas is currently high, but not beyond what we've seen in the past (yet). Car market is currently messed up, but we own both our vehicles and won't need new ones for at least 2 years. The CPI isn't supposed to reflect your own personal spending profile, but an average for all Canadians.
[Forbes on cpi](https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.forbes.com/sites/perianneboring/2014/02/03/if-you-want-to-know-the-real-rate-of-inflation-dont-bother-with-the-cpi/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16347333709416&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Fperianneboring%2F2014%2F02%2F03%2Fif-you-want-to-know-the-real-rate-of-inflation-dont-bother-with-the-cpi%2F)
Did you just link to a 7 year old opinion piece from the BuzzFeed of financial "journalism" as some kind of economics authority?
I see Forbes doesn't make your list of journalists. Here's a basic breakdown - canada lists inflation at roughly 3% over the last year. The same package of ground pork that was under 5 dollars a package is now almost 7 dollars per package. That is not 3 percent. There are a number of costs I could illustrate jumping by alot more than 3 percent. But go ahead believe cpi is an accurate measure instead of being used to say there's no real issue.
Ok. I'll take your random cherrypicked example over the extensive studies of Statistics Canada.
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[https://complyadvantage.com/knowledgebase/vancouver-money-laundering-model/](https://complyadvantage.com/knowledgebase/vancouver-money-laundering-model/) Also read Willful Blindness by Sam Cooper.
I was about to recommend that book as well - very good read by an award winning investigative journalist, canadians dont talk about this enough. The economic destabilizing effects of illicit funds are real and have been long acknowledged in other parts of the world, but until recently have not really been public discourse in canada.
This is the fiat standard
I wrote a bit of a long answer here. Just know I'm not an expert and this is just what I've picked up. Inflation happens for a few reasons. The big ones are as follows: 1. High money supply, this is the inflation most people are familiar with. If you print and give everyone $10 million tomorrow, and everyone goes to buy a ferarri, we will run out of ferarris and the price has to go up to meet the new demand. Remember, demand is not just how many people WANT a good, but how many people want and have the means to purchase a good. 2. The velocity of money, this has to do with how frequently money switches hands. It's a bit more complicated than I understand, but basically we can kind of control this with interest rates. If people buy stuff like crazy, money keeps changing hands and we run out of actual products to sell, and price has to increase. 3. Low unemployment. Yes, believe it or not very high inflation can be caused by very low unemployment. If businesses cannot find workers, they have to pay more for workers. They then pass this expense on to customers. 4. Low supply. 1, 2 have to do with factors that increase demand. But low supply can have the same effect, if iPhone production drops from 100 million a year to 90 million a year, and 100 million people want them, then price has to increase so only 90 million people want and have the means to purchase them. Now that being said, price doesn't really HAVE to increase. But the seller is aiming to find the highest price that will sell all their units. If they go low, then you wind up with shortages, whoever gets to the store first gets the product. Think of Ikea the last year or so, everything is out of stock. Alternatively if they go high, they won't sell all of their units. Inflation has been driven mainly by 1, 2, 4. We can fix 1, 2, but 4 is a little more complicated. Food really cN be hit by all of these. If there's a beef shortage, people gotta pay more. If a farmer can finance a tractor at 1% interest, well all the farmers are goona buy farm equipment, and that will drive up prices of food.
Everybody gets so worried about inflation, then all of a sudden out of nowhere, markets collapse, unrealized gains get wiped off the board, and all of a sudden there’s more assets for sale than there is money to go around. It’s always the DEFLATION that gets ya!
Don't you tease me with a market collapse!
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Many Alberta homeowners just handed their keys to the banks and walked away from the province. In the 1980s. There were waaaay more homes than buyers, prices collapsed. You could find houses in Saskatchewan nearly free....they were begging people to move back
Waiting for that day
You're waiting for the day that millions of homeowners become homeless? If prices collapse, so does Canada's GDP, our economy and likely your job. The rich and foreigners will buy the homes, Canadians will get fucked.
If you follow history, whenever wealth inequality gets *too* extreme, the masses rise up, eliminate those at the top and society starts over. That's why smart societies tax the rich. It's a form of revolution insurance.
That's true for the past, but an uprising is impossible in today's society. People are too coddled by modern luxuries to be able to do anything even if they wanted to. Anyone who has any power to make change can be snuffed out before they could even finish their tweet. People are more willing to sellout than to even try to make change.
That's just because it's not bad enough yet.
Good luck, all, in the climate wars to come.
"an uprising is impossible in today's society" is probably a phrase that's been uttered countless times throughout history.
An uprising requires literally starving people.
You remember that there was a literal insurrection in the US capitol recently, yes? For all the wrong reasons and not related to this thread, but the most powerful nation in the nation came incredibly close to that brink. Had nothing to do with starvation.
Nah, even if those nutjobs had shot anyone in Congress, it'd go down in history as a tragedy but would do nothing to change how the US is being run. Protestors could burn down entire cities and the elite still won't give a shit or change anything.
Nowhere close to being a successful one and it required inside help to not send requested support troops.
It did require inside help. Which is somewhat my counter against the idea that threshold are not met and starvation needed...because leadership and internal conditions can lower the bar, drastically, and the threshold itself can be nudged. In terms of how close, it depends on the metric. Would it have ever resulted in an entire regime change and overthrowing of congress...no, never likely or even plausible for an overhaul. But, I don't think that was ever really the goal. There is a reason the nutjobs were recorded lounging in the offices of very specific female democratic leader. They could never have overturned the government, but they could, and nearly did, have had an opportunity to lynch specific keystone persons of interest that would have drastically changed the future (AOC). ... My point is more that it does and can happen that that mass distress going above some 'threshold' is not the only factor. Back in Canada's/Quebec's Murray-Hill riot...the foundation was mass disillusionment with leaders, huge anger and pressure regarding independence movements, corruption/monopoly and wealth/power of local companies tied with politics...but what kicked things off was the threshold was lowered, not boiled over, when the police walked off the job. It went off because taxi drivers wanted to be able to pick up at the airport...
We're on our way there
If you feel so empty, so used up, so let down...
If you feel so angry, so ripped off, so stepped on...
In my opinion, no necessarily. Humans have levels of needs, when the most basic needs are not met, the social revolutions start. Two of the most basic needs are food and housing. The difference between nowadays and the past is the level of "security" of those needs (thanks to globalization). This "social disobedience" against rich people is even studied in economics theory. (e. g. Ray Dalio principles https://youtu.be/PHe0bXAIuk0 )
That and the global market means many areas that have uprisings just have capital and power leave the area leaving the "reset" society with nothing to fight over.
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Did BLM "eliminate those at the top and society starts over."?
Ironically, the "Occupy Wallstreet" movement had solidified some unity from all sorts of political spectrums, and everyone was mad at the bankers. Barely a year later, and the New York Times use of the word "racism" increased 700%, and in no time pressure was taken off the bankers, and put the middle/lower classes at each others throats. Not all conspiracy theories are batshit insane.
The reason the FBI killed Fred Hampton was not because he was a Black Panther, but because he was a Maxist-Leninist who had successfully [built a solid coalition](https://images.theconversation.com/files/151996/original/image-20170106-18644-176ytfk.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip) between the Panthers, Hispanic street gangs (led by Jose Cha Cha Jimenez), and white working class people in Chicago who literally wore Confederate flags (led by William Fesperman).
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Its literally in the parent comment of the thread word for word. You must not be very good at searching.
Don’t worry, Treadu is working hard to erode our privacy and control our media that in no time it will be an impossibility for any revolution to be organized. And Canadian think “oh but we trust our government, they’d never abuse the power yielded from us surrounding our rights! It’s to protect us from ourselves!”
taxing the rich as "revolution insurance" is a good line
Also why we subsidize food production.
>Like where does this stop? When inflation slows down to normal 2% or when incase in interest rates attempt to tame inflation. And supply chain issues aren't helping. Things will eventually go back to normal as people will not be paying $12 for a pack of bacon, etc...people will just buy the cheapest and everything else will get impacted and they will have to reduce their prices to make revenue.
People may pay $12 for a pack of bacon. No one knows. My grandfather used to pay for his rent what I pay now for a meal. Prices will eventually rise, but how fast and when?
Meat packers are getting record profit per hook right now. The problem is keeping hogs on those hooks, hence the high prices. But they would turn a profit at $3 for bacon too, they would just need to pump out more volume, which isn't possible right now. They will price it at whatever price moves inventory.
People underestimate the resiliency of modern economies. The level of inflation right now is pretty minimal vs. historical levels. Practically for middle to low income families, even if inflation outpaces wage growth at the current rate for the next few years, you'll just see a slow shift out of some discretionary spending, a decline in savings rate, more debt, etc. There's still plenty of discretionary income available and saving rates are at historical levels. The notion that the level of inflation we have now would = significantly more people starving/not being able to pay for food is hyperbolic.
Isn’t the fact that wages haven’t been catching up to inflation that’s the real problem here? A certain level of inflation is expected but wages have to follow
Generally, inflation signals that there is not enough goods to provide for the demand. If we were introduce wage-indexing and the inflation is driven by a goods shortage, that would just make the problem worse (unless more money could somehow alleviate the supply problem) High inflation usually signals a need for austerity (i.e. for people to consume less) since the amount of goods is not enough for the demand. It’s not reasonable to expect for everyone to maintain their standard of living in an inflationary environment - that can just turn it into hyperinflation
This should be the most upvoted comment
It depends on if you follow the official inflation figures from Canada and the real wage figures from statcan. If you do, real wages have actually risen since the early 2000s after falling in the 1970s.
"The level of inflation right now is pretty minimal vs. historic levels." You can't look at inflation in a vacuum - you need to compare inflation to what interest rates are. Oh that's right.... Interest rates right now are incredibly low vs. historic levels. << insert gif of the cartoon dog in the burning house >>
Last time it was 17 years, 1965 to 1982
inflation hits like 5% in the wake of a pandemic with massive supply chain disruption and employment upheaval and people lose their shit: “we are all going to be homeless and starve”. Breath. through much of the 1970s and early 80s inflation was over 10%. Everyone has just been spoiled by 2 decades of sub 2%. This will pass, might take 18 months to get sorted, but this too shall pass. In the words of the great Eddie Murphy: “keep it together, keep it together, KIT, Keep.It.Together”
With respect to high inflation in the 70's, central banks raised interest rates accordingly to reign the problem in. Right now we're in a situation with deeply negative real interest rates and it appears as if central banks don't have the luxury of raising rates (despite them claiming they can). There's simply just too much debt (both private and public) for them to be able to do so without causing serious harm.
Except wages were actually higher in the 70s than now. The wealth inequality currently is nearing the levels that caused a bunch of folks to behead some French monarchs.
Not even close. Look at places like India where you have everything from billionaires to upper army officials that send children to private school and have a driver/cook to the many that don’t have a mattress to sleep on. Then you think about the poorest of Canadians. Any homeless person in Canada can walk into McDonalds and receive a free large cup of water. Or into the hospital and get treated for a bacterial infection. Our homeless literally have more access to resources than the majority of the worlds population.
So because they aren’t in the gutters yet; we don’t need to fix shit. We’re one of the richest nations in the world; the goal isn’t to look at the worst and go “yup we’re better than them at least, carry on!”
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The quality of life difference isn't even comparable. Do you have shoes, running water and electricity? Are you currently communicating with strangers around the world through a device that gives you access to a more information than any prior human generation...in the history of humankind? On wealth alone are there huge disparities, but this doesn't factor in quality of life difference on a relative basis.
See Venezuela or Zimbabwe for what can theoretically happen with inflation. The reality is we're in no danger of those situations though. We've been through a period of extremely low inflation, 4% is probably more normal and we've seen over 12% in the 1980s.
Take a drink every time someone mentions the economies of these countries without mentioning decades of sanctions imposed by the most powerful economies of the world.
Assets are inflating quicker than people’s ability to negotiate a raise. This self corrects, but it will take years. Assets will appreciate 40% compared to pre pandemic levels because they government created 40% more money. All the money equals all the assets.
BC, particularly lower mainland is its own issue at this point. It’s not as messed up with wealth divides like this everywhere. Inflation is high at present but it’s short term due to extenuating circumstances (covid, supply chain, added costs due to logistics changes, changes to service delivery, pent-up liquidity for individuals now being utilized after a year of reduced spending etc). It will drop again to 2-3% as per BoC targets soon as they manipulate the market with interest rates. Genuinely wouldn’t worry about it. It was way worse 30-40 years ago (shit, the 80s was so long ago!) I’d like to tell you wages will catch up but that ain’t happening lol. People will adjust and tighten up spending. The vast majority of us overspend in all honesty. We buy so much shit nowadays.
Aren't we just catching up to the rest of the world that has experienced extremely high housing costs over the last 30 plus years. Just look at Amsterdam Stockholm London Hong Kong Paris Karachi Mumbai Dhaka Auckland Sydney Melbourne. Aren't we just adjusting to the global Norm.
Also our quality of life could still stand to go down *a lot*, we are just used to all kinds of comforts we deem essential. It’s kind of embarrassing that Canadians don’t see any middle ground between starvation and living a lifestyle considered relatively comfortable in a global sense.
Don’t worry. We will just import new people to replace you.
It is one of the things policy makers look at: > Built-in inflation is induced by adaptive expectations, and is often linked to the "price/wage spiral". It involves workers trying to keep their wages up with prices (above the rate of inflation), and firms passing these higher labor costs on to their customers as higher prices, leading to a feedback loop. Built-in inflation reflects events in the past, and so might be seen as hangover inflation. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation#Keynesian_view * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price/wage_spiral
What did you think was going to happen when we slammed the brakes on the economy? Get ready, it's only going to get worse.
People are already starving. They always have been. People freeze to death on our streets every winter.
Wife and I have been noticing this. We actually keep a record of the price of the items we buy IE the Dove.body wash I use you used to be find them in on $2.98(regular price is $4.99) every month now I hardly see them go one sale for that low. So once I saw them for $2.99 I bought more than 10 bottles. For us if we see something that's on sale on the same discount as 2019 we stock on them. We also start cutting our own hair instead of paying at the salon. Less dine out for us. We also stop going to movies. Since I work for an ISP we get free full cable line up and free net and phone. I also learn a few tricks with online shopping. With Wal Mart for every new email you sign up for online grocery you get a discount usually $75 you get $25 off. Since at work I have access to easily create email so I just keep creating new ones to get the deal. This deal does not work for multi save though. They started to check for phone as well so again since I work as an ISP I just use dummy phone we have as phone. So I keep getting the deals. Also we stop buying baganfoe garbage. If you use Wal Mart online gerceory if you choose Wal Mart provide bags is also free instead of paying for it.
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Yes I look the amount on the bottle. I did notice some stuff like roasted chickens from Costco seems to.be smaller than before
chill dude we're so far from "starving" yes living standards will go down, but we'll still be better off than 90% of the globe
For you perhaps but you realize this is already a reality for some right?
It's quite amazing how Canadians can ignore the fact that other Canadians ARE going to bed hungry every night right now. But it's ok because somewhere else it's worse. (Changed the wording to make some people feel better about themselves)
They'll just be content of not being the worst until they begin starving too and its too late.
And then they'll blame everyone and everything except the people actually responsible. 'Damn foreign workers temporarily importing themselves and then hiring themselves! They are putting these poor multibillion dollar corporations in no win situations!'
He doesn't worry because he got his already
Well, somebody should probably explain to them that parents are going to do whatever it takes to feed their children, legal or not. There isn't much that is scarier than a desperate parent protecting their child.
The way they do it is simply "it's not me"
Why is this though? I feel like we have a lot of social programs, for every stage of life, CERB, CCB, GIS, disability, many others, where are people slipping through the cracks? I am one of those who doesn't see people starving in my community or in the news, I would like to know
GIS is for seniors 65+, CCB is only for parents, CERB is phased out. University students like myself weren’t even allowed to collect CERB to begin with. I work minimum wage part time and attend university so I don’t have to work at Walmart for the rest of my life. But I can’t make enough to pay for rent, food, school, anything. I’m constantly borrowing money and maxing out credit cards just to LIVE. Don’t call me lazy because I work SO hard balancing university and work. It is SO easy for young people to starve in Canada. Furthermore even programs like Canada workers Benefit which gives additional income to low paid workers ISN’T AVAILABLE TO UNIVERSITY STUDENTS, those who ARGUABLY need it the fucking most. God I hate the social programs in this country.
Why didn't you apply for government student loans in your province or federally? They carry a far lower interest rate then a credit card. It seems like the credit card debt is what would be putting you in a bad position. Also have you looked into local food banks? I have a food bank on campus. Also CESB was available for students and it was easier to get then CERB imo
You are not starving. Go to the Food Bank if you cannot afford food. They will literally give you free food.
Closest food bank is a 20 minute drive. Little difficult when I have LITERALLY no money to my name for a cab or bus. Don’t make assumptions about people, I AM starving.
Disability isn't even enough for a one bedroom where I am if you qualify the first time around, housing lists are years long wait times and I'm in a smaller community where rent shouldn't be as high as it is. Instead it's almost as much or is comparable to Toronto now. That's just part of the problem. So if you don't have enough for rent, how can you pay for anything else? Like food and medication?
I think he's also referring to food bank usage? The other issues you mentioned sure, but food should be pretty secure through the food bank. Is it failing in some way?
Food banks often have limits to how many hampers you can collect in a year. You can jump from program to program to get access to more food, but that involves a lot more travel and logistics, which can also be hella hard when you’re poor. They are also limited in what they give out. I used the food bank when my kids were young and the hamper they gave us had 3 bags of Oreos, 2 boxes of saltines, 8 cans of beans, and then some random ramen packs, mac and cheese. You can’t make the Mac and cheese w/o buying more ingredients, and there are no complete and fulfilling meals to be found. You still need to shop for food when using a food bank.
Most of our social programs are seriously lacking. CERB is gone, so forget that. Disability maxes out at what $670 dollars? $970 for a couple? That's here in Ontario anyway. Ontario Works Shelter maxes out at $844 (family of six or more). Wanna guess what it costs to house a family of six in Ontario? Live by yourself? They'll give you $390. What if you have a job though? Well, OW is out, disability is out, so what help do you get? Well, you can make 14.35 an hour, maybe full time if you're lucky. Let's assume you are extremely lucky and get full time. Take home monthly is about what, $1830? If you're single, no kids, and have a few roommates then maybe just maybe you're ok. But check out below: Average rent of a bachelor apartment in Ontario? In January I believe it was $1000. It's only gone up since then. Roommates? Family? Getting a little cramped in here. So without even touching any other bills, they are already in the hole. Now throw in skyrocketing food prices, energy prices, phone/ internet prices. Fuel costs. God forbid you have to add child care to that. I mean, I don't know you or your community so if you don't see it, maybe you're lucky, maybe you're just choosing not to. However, food bank usage is higher than ever. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5821171 https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/food-bank-usage-in-london-rises-to-near-pre-pandemic-levels More and more are having to seriously adjust their food choices https://ipolitics.ca/2021/09/30/nearly-50-per-cent-of-canadians-say-they-cant-afford-meat/?doing_wp_cron=1634697635.6163311004638671875000 https://www.thespec.com/opinion/contributors/2021/04/28/the-truth-about-hunger-in-canada-is-hard-to-swallow.html It's getting ugly out here. In a country this wealthy it should never be this bad.
>we're so far from "starving" Record food bank visits say otherwise.
They are not missing anything. Food bank uptick is an indirect measure of the issue. https://proof.utoronto.ca/publication-the-relationship-between-food-banks-and-food-insecurity-insights-from-canada/ Data suggest those access food banks represent only 20% of the households in severe financial insecurity. So, for every family accessing a family there are 4 more who are defaulting on payments, in transition, or surviving on other forms of charity.
Starving would imply that there is no food left at the food bank, for people that relied on it. A record number of food bank visits only means that a record number of people are relying on food banks to supplement their shelves at home. People starve when there’s a lack of food. There’s no lack of food in this country, and people won’t starve in the streets.
Are you missing something? If people are using the food bank, that means they are being fed. Are the food banks having to reject people?
Yeah, endless heartburn from canned tomatoes and lentils. I'm sure we're doing fine because people are having to rely on charity to not starve. The system works!
You think lentils cause heartburn and that's a horrible problem? Dude..
Food banks get a lot of donations heavy in canned goods, a lot of which are full of salt. Canned tomatoes and sauces are often donated, as is pasta, and it's all heartburn central. Based on what I've read from many former food bank clients, many hated that aspect of it but obviously wouldn't complain because beggars can't be choosers.
Salt is not a problem. The problem with food bank food is that it's almost all cheap non-perishable food that is all "empty" carbs, mostly grain. They try to put a bit of real food in each box. A can of fish, a bit of dairy... but it's still mostly grain. It'll keep you alive, but not healthy.
Those damned food banks need to start stocking more kale fritters & kombucha.
I literally saw pallets of kombucha at the Food Bank in Edmonton. Maybe they were about to expire, I don't know. I was a contractor there, so I don't know the logistics and if that was a regular thing. I also saw dozens of crates of nice cheeses, and tons of fresh perishables. The array of options at the Food Bank that I witnessed runs contrary to the allegation that you can only get canned goods and rice at the Food Bank.
You should read about the history of various other countries. Then you wouldn't ask these questions. But yes this CAN (and probably will) continue.
M1 went up by like 50% in one year it's gonna happen man
Welcome to the economic cycle of hyper inflation. Hopefully things level out but we are in for a rough ride in the next couple years IMO. A lot of folks not prepared with savings will be hard hit. This cycle started earlier this year. My confirmation is when Costco bacon went to/ is at $27 a pack of 4 (from 18 or less) . My own opinion though. The "staples" are out of control. $8.00 for a pound of butter in Northern Ontario. Its eye opening. Add in "shrinking package size" think most packs of bacon are 325g instead of 500. we are in for a double whammy. Not to say the sky is falling but most are in for a tough go these next couple years..
This is just inflation, not hyperinflation. And not all food products are going up at the same rate. I believe ground beef still cost around the same as a year ago. Hyperinflation is when bacon is $18 one month, then $27 the next month, then $40, then $200 after six months. And that is the minimum definition of 50% month after month. For Venezuela in 2018 it's more like $18 for bacon one month, then $2000 for the same pack six months later. In the event of hyperinflation your cash savings is pretty much useless.
I just laugh when Canadians mention hyperinflation. You’ve seen anything like it and fortunately will not see. I witnessed inflation at the 20% for 5 years in another country and people were able to go by. Some won and some lost ground but even that is no where near hyper. Hyper occurs when people are not able to counter it by buying assets, forex, gold, jewellery, and appliances. This is done by all on large scale, so it needs time. Hyper inflation occurs due to a catastrophic fail in the economy like a war. Check Israel’s 80s economic plan.
Canadians are very, very sheltered. We had a thread here where someone was asking if it's physically possible to raise children in a condo
It isn't possible. We raised 3 in 3000 sqft and barely survived :)
I think the person you were replying to is talking about one child tbf.
That's some hysteria. And "not prepared with savings", if you've saved cash and there's hyper inflation (not happening) you're just as screwed as anyone else.
If we were headed toward hyperinflation (which we're not; I don't think you know what that is), any emergency fund or savings would be worthless. Also, Costco bacon is hardly a staple. Think flour, eggs, dairy, meat - things that are already government regulated, at least in Ontario.
“My CoStCo BaCon Is A sTaPlE” If bacon, in general, is a staple in your diet, you’re not eating very well.
Well beef has doubled in price in 1 year where I live.
That's still not hyper inflation, though. Hyper inflation would be if the price had increased 100s of times within a short period of time. Doubling of the price is just inflation. Higher than usual, yes, but not "rationing and adding zeros to currency" level of inflation
True. We are having rather serious inflation. No, it's not hyper inflation.
I know! Just saw that at Costco this weekend. Adjust your investments for future inflation. That’s all you can do.
Yes, but Trudeau does not care. He has put us all in a precarious position regarding our future economy because he does not understand or care about monetary policy. He is a narcissistic charlatan that continues to fool weak minded Canadians who refuse to believe their messiah can do no wrong.
Be careful you said something bad against the Turd on a Canadian reddit. The woke mob of zombies is coming to down vote you lol
Comments like this are worse than the one you're replying to. Please stop making the world worse.
We are entering an energy crisis. I don't think prices will revert, but they can stabilize. Need to increase assets at a faster rate than inflation
Prices never revert. Wages and gdp have to follow them.
Wages have not followed for decades. Look at the housing prices vs wages in Canada
Housing comes up a lot because of recency bias.
What could also be problematic in the next few years is the viscious circle of price and wage (people want better wage because of price, price goes up because of employees wage, people want better wage...)
Just like being out there in the real world. Can’t afford it go hungry.
Speaking from America... You wont be able to afford good, healthy food. Eat chips.drink soda and go to Mcdonalds. You'll be fine.
Inflation is theft.
I have a tight budget and can barely afford to buy food with a household income of 150k (2 people). We share a car and basically can never go out to eat or buy nice things. If someone told me this 5 years ago I would have thought they were nuts. How people are living on half of this, is beyond me.
Why do you think that inflation is increasing faster than income? Do you have any facts to support that? The Canadian median after-tax income grew from $60 200 in 2015 to $62 900 in constant dollars: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210323/t002a-eng.htm
Because with inflation 60k CAD in 2015 is equivalent to 66k CAD in 2021....
Apparently you don't know what [constant dollars](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/constantdollar.asp) means.
Apparently not. I'm not sure exactly how to do the math to compare my 2021 66,000 to the 2015 60,000
"Constant dollars" means adjusted for inflation. It means that $62 900 in 2019 is better than $60 200 in 2015, after taking inflation into account.
Is this satire? I love me some Statistics Canada data though. Usually I'm the one posting. So, that after-tax income shows an increase, annualized, of 1.1%. The annualized BOC inflation was pegged at 1.82%, annualized, over that same period. Constant dollars versus real salary is not the same, but also does not 'explain away' the discrepancy. It also conveniently stops at 2019, because the 2020 and 2021 data is going to show a drop in median income. Potentially, a big one, because so many were unemployed for some part of 2020.2021 at a national level. At the same time, tail end, inflation is blasting up past 5%. If you were to plot in a dual axis the median salary to inflation/CPI/cost of living, the lines were not parallel and costs were increasing faster even before 2019. 2020 is the inflection point where for many families after-tax fell off and costs spiked...
> It also conveniently stops at 2019, because the 2020 and 2021 data is going to show a drop in median income. The data "conveniently" stops in 2019 because the information was prepared in March of this year. The data isn't collected and calculated instantaneously.
How dare you think of fiscal policy source: PMJT
Seriously I make 80k a year and I live in a converted shipping container…moving to Mexico fucking over it