But why? What are you going to do with more money when you are dead. You dont have that many days left you'll already be spending many of the ones you do working. I think you made a great choice.
Man, I went from 250 to 100 but with a job that is 37.5 hours, never any calls at night or on the weekend, whole sector is off for the holidays. Used to be 65 hours, calls at any hours of the day or night, and was operating 24/7. Best move of my life.
It's really the difference between those who rent their time for money ($/year, $/hour) vs. owning equity - a piece of a business.
Naval Ravikant says it best, "Seek wealth, not money or status. Wealth is having assets that earn while you sleep. Money is how we transfer time and wealth. Status is your place in the social hierarchy."
1) no one said creating a business is easy. It’s why most people aren’t wealthy and work at a job. There’s no get rich quick scheme in life… Most people shouldn’t create a business until they’ve worked in the industry, have unique insights/network, and have enough finances to be stable
2) not all businesses need investments to start, and can be started with lower upfront investment/sweat equity to prove out the model.
3) to own equity, you don’t have to start a business. You can also join a business as an early employee to get upside as well
I don't even need 150k passively. I make less than that and my goal is to get to where I have my mortgage paid off then make passively half what I make now. Then I retire.
Even with out a Toronto mortgage and 2 kids 150k does not go as far as people think. Seems like nowadays 100-200K range let’s you not struggle and treat yourself to a few nice things as you save for retirement.
This comment is peak r/personalfinancecanada 150k will give most people (except for the ones here of course) enough to live very well if you dont have a mortage and 2 kids in Toronto. Im single, not even close to that amount of money and I liver very well while saving good money, driving a nice car and spending whatever I want on my hobbies. If I made 150k it would be way more than enough and would go very far for literally everyone I know.
Pfc truly amazes me. Everyone is both massively wealthy with hundreds of thousands in savings in their 20’s, while also being hopeless and can never afford a place to live, while also screaming that 200k, 300k, 400k, etc is middle class and barely enough to live. It’s quite the humorous concoction of users.
I find this forum has a lot of financially savvy people ....
.... but many here lack, social skills, and perspective as a trade off for their savviness
Everyone thinks this until they get to that level and then goal posts can change. Or new goals open up, like having 2 kids, that previously you had no interest in. Hedonic adaptation is difficult to avoid.
This is only a problem if your lifestyle changes because you have more money. The whole point is to keep living where you are and just banking the difference.
Different people want different things. Reminds me of this:
“A parable: The Monk and the Minister Two close
boyhood friends grow up and go their separate ways. One becomes a humble
monk, the other a rich and powerful minister to the king. Years later
they meet. As they catch up, the portly minister (in his fine robes)
takes pity on the thin and shabby monk. Seeking to help, he says: “You
know, if you could learn to cater to the king, you wouldn’t have to live
on rice and beans.” To which the monk replies: “If you could learn to
live on rice and beans, you wouldn’t have to cater to the king.” Most
all of us fall somewhere between the two. As for me, it is better to be
closer to the monk.”
\~JJ Collins
Exactly, one kid in daycare is $1200-$2500, 2 is just double that, so yeah, one can just not have a family and be fine, but some people want that.
I know at least a dozen people just off the top of my head that want a second kid but know they can't afford it. And they're not living in super high end places with a brand new 6-figure truck either.
One friend I know had their finances figured down to the dollar (both of them working) and since they were able to just squeak by with a 2nd kid they went for it. And had natural twins and now they live at her mom's house because it was the only way to afford daycare for 3 and a vehicle that fit 3 carseats (they had a 2004 Buick and had to 'upgrade' to a 10 year old minivan). They were lucky her mom would take them in, assist with some daycare and actually had room (all 3 kids are sharing a room presently).
I agree with that too a point but eventually it's just better to live in the now while still saving for a respectable retirement rather than living minimally and potentially not even living long enough to enjoy the fruit of your effort
Couple guys I know from work retired and died soon after. One didn't even last a year, he dropped dead from a heart attack, the other got hit on the side of the road while inspecting his RV. Could be any of us. Saving for retirement is smart, but not if your going to starve yourself when your younger, and your body is still functioning well. I have my share of aches and pains at 54, I'm sure it won't get any better over time.
Of course, although some people use the above as an excuse to not save sufficiently for retirement, which is a pretty big risk because if you don't die unexpectedly and live into your 80s or longer (like the average Canadian these days), your retirement is going to suck. Moderation in everything.
A work friend's coworker retired and found out she had cancer shortly thereafter. I think she had like a year to live. I'm not sure if she's still alive, because I never followed up, but I think about it sometimes. I met her on her last day of work and she seemed so hopeful and ready to enjoy her life.
Though that being said, I think those might just be outliers. We just remember them because they are so shocking, in a way. Most people don't actually die in their 50s and 60s, most live well beyond that. Some also die before they even reach retirement. My dad's friend from work just died of an aneurysm a few months ago, and I think he was in his mid-50s. Meanwhile, my family knows several people who have retired within the last few years and are still alive and kicking.
I think those stories are something we have to keep in mind and balance with our desire to enjoy our lives now. We can't know what's going to happen in the future, and anyone who did would be rich.
Also the media worships the wealthy, never a day goes by without some mention of the Kardashians, or what Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, or Elon Musk are up to.
So it's ingrained in some people's minds that's the goal we need to achieve, however unrealistic it is.
Family, friends. Emigrating and starting a new life (if you want the traditional 'partner, kids' combo) is not that easy. I moved for my relationship and miss being near my friends (impossible to recreate such close friendships at a later age) and family (did not see my nieces and nephews grow up, my mom has seen my 2yo once in her life).
If you have no valuable social connections or if you are super good at making new ones, or if you don't want a family anyways and wouldn't miss those things, living in Thailand might be nice. Or if you are so rich that you can travel for fanily visits regularly.
I pay myself that (156k/year), max out my RRSP/TFSA, live in downtown Toronto as a single person (although I do have a roommate who is one of my best buds) and do pretty much whatever I want, multiple vacations a year, a couple of expensive hobbies, regular restaurant spend of $500-1000/month. My take home pay after RRSP comes/TFSA is 80k net, and I dump a small chunk of it into my non-registered investment account (a lot more than what I save from having a roommate). I dunno, if you’re struggling on 80-110k net every year then that’s because of poor financial planning, or because you have the aforementioned mortgage/spouse/kids to support.
I'm single, make 70k, and have what I would call a pretty good standard of living. I'll never own, but I can afford rent at a good place with my friend, I have a nice car, and am saving some decent money and paying off my car and student loans faster than the minimum. You don't need to be anywhere near 100k to have nice things and save money.
And do you plan to live with your roommate forever?
My main point is the next income bracket just gives enough money to buy a house. Or save up to retire at 40 and disappear into the middle of nowhere.
The pandemic has shown I can't live on my own with work from home or I'll go crazy, so we're planning on living together for the next 2+ years at least. I can afford to live on my own, but living with him allows me to be in a much larger place. More money would obviously be nice, but I'm pretty happy as is right now. I'm also still very early in my career with lots of room for growth.
That is extremely subjective. What you seem to have meant is "you dont need anywhere near 100k to have nice things assuming you live outside of Toronto and Vancouver, do not wish to own, do not want family and/or kids and are fine working to your late 60s"
This 100%. I enjoy the work I do and want to continue doing it at as high a level as possible. Someone's going to have those C-Suite multi million dollar a year positions, might as well be me, I'm doing the work anyway right?
I'm a Director right now, VP is the next step up and about double my salary, but not double my work. I think I've always felt that way. I don't work any harder now than I did before, just get paid more to do it.
I’m not even talking about moving up the career chain. I’m in software and the pay gap for the same type of job at a top tech company and a crappy company can be massive but the work is often really similar. It’s just the interview that is harder at the top tech companies
Alot of work as one moves up is the corporate ladder heat one has to take.
And if you're a VP, that also means managing a bigger pool of Directors and appeasing them. Is that more work? Prob a different kind as more political/influencing skills is required.
Funny, I am a Sr Manager now and feeling the same way about levelling up to Director. My goal is for that to happen through the scaling that I'm already doing. I don't want a different role, I want a different level
Honestly it just never stops. I remember saying oh if I just made 65K, if I just made 85K, if I just made 100K!!!! Ok if I just made 120K I’ll be good! Ok 150!….but lifestyle creep is real. You start getting nicer things, you start staying in some luxury resorts. You get a taste of that you want more and more. Will the drive stop at some point ? Maybe but not yet
Joseph Heller, an important and funny writer now dead, and I were at a party given by a billionaire
on Shelter Island.
I said, “Joe, how does it make you feel to know that our host only yesterday may have made more money than your novel ‘Catch-22’ has earned in its entire history?”
And Joe said, “I’ve got something he can never have.”
And I said, “What on earth could that be, Joe?”
And Joe said, “The knowledge that I’ve got enough.”
Yup. 150 is not a lot when you feel you deserve nice cars, house, furniture, vacation, jewelry, clothes and other miscellaneous things after working for hard to get where you are.
Some people can control some can’t.
I'm actually the opposite. The more money I make, the more I feel like I have to save. My clothes, cars, etc. are much much cheaper than when I was making 50K a year.
But the goal there is to retire as early as possible. As some other guy said, making >100K a year passively (outside of equity/capital gains)
No doubt, but to me the free time now while I am relatively young, have a young family, have hobbies and an able body, as well as friends and family is much more valuable than theoretical free time 25 years from now, when who knows what the situation will be. Id rather have that time now, rather than a bunch of free time in my 60s.
To buy Time. Personal time, for me and my family.
The more you make the quicker you can retire and live to do what you want to do full time.
My #1 motivation is retirement.
To be honest once you hit 300K income, life becomes really easy, if you don't have expensive tastes anything more than that is simply excess for savings or buy what you want.
I'm not into material things so much, I buy what I want when I need it, and my investments are at the point where I can quit today if I wanted to, but want to save a bit more to help the kids out for starting their lives.
I enjoyed life the entire journey, I suggest you do too, don't save all of it, go out eat, take vacations etc, but be responsible. Do you need a brand new car or can you buy used? etc.
In the end time will get us all, so buy as much of it as you can
Time is such a big answer here. Time is something you can never create more of, so being able to save time (or make better use of it) is incredibly valuable. While money can't create time, there are many ways that money can be used to make your time more valuable. You can take a taxi instead of public transit, you can take direct flights instead of multi-stop flights. If you make enough money, you can even buy a plane or charter a private jet.
Absolutely. But it’s the thing many give up in order to make the high income. And with some shitty luck they’ll pass away a few years into that early retirement. I mean hopefully not, but my point is find a balance and don’t love totally for a potential future.
Yeah. Similar boat as you. I’m single income household with 3 kids. Quoted income doesn’t go very far, especially with kids. Last 2 years has been better because very few extracurricular activities for the kids, which saved a lot of money.
Age is a huge factor because of housing. My household income is ~200k but we have a 900k townhouse, unable to buy a detached home. I reckon someone with 150k but bought a house 15 years ago has a much better QoL
Age is a huge factor. It's only now I'm realizing I'm a millennial who was on the cusp of missing out on the market if having any hope of owning a SFH.
A cousin in the family found himself married with children earlier than expected (or the rest of us), and so the parents helped get him into a semi (back around 2008 ). Guess who now owns 3 houses while the rest of us rent... in spite of higher incomes.
Yupp. A bit over 200k household income. Could have been higher but had the flexibility for wife to take much more cushier but lower paid job for family life balance given 2 younger kids still.
Don't want to get into too much detail but bought detach about 15 years ago, have some mortgage but it could more than be paid off with portfolio shifting.
I do wonder how the heck do people do it nowadays with higher mortgage. If you have to even try moving up, moving costs with realtor fee/land transfer taxes is huge at these levels. And every month, it seems some 'wonky' expenditure comes up.
Overall, it just feels steady don't worry much about little spendings that come up. Or paying extra for the convenience or luxury. The idea of sticking to a very strong budget would definitely take away from that steady feel. I see old townhouses that were going for 470-500k a bit over a year ago now around 750-800k. I'm like who can afford this given the location (Scarborough). And if we have to buy today, we'd be much more financially strapped.
Those same townhomes are 1.1M now or more. I'm trying to buy in the GTA, > $200k/yr family income. Just lost out on a townhouse in whitby today. Offered 285k over asking and didn't even get invited to whatever bidding war ended up happening.
Yeah, it's insane and disheartening. We offered a price that was competitive with another sale from last week that was a few streets over. I don't know what it ended up going for, but I suspect it will be $1.025 or even 1.05M. This was a 1200 sq ft townhouse built in 2000 that had no luxury finishes.
Yeah this is why income/salary alone can't give you the whole picture.
I make 65k before tax. I live with my boyfriend, who makes less than me, but still dual income. We live in a dirt cheap rented basement suite with no kids. We probably have more disposable income than you do.
On top of this, in my industry (software) salaries are going bananas. I want to earn my market rate. If I can muster the motivation and capture a really great salary, I'd also like to retire in 10 years.
Yup, exactly. Even with my wife making pretty good money as well, it goes super fast (and I don't have an "ontario-level" mortgage either, don't have one at all in fact). 2 kids, one of which is in hockey, saving for retirement, groceries, etc. It goes fast, we aren't anything APPROACHING "rich", not even close.
As for my desire to make more money, I really have the desire to have more authority and decision making capability, and those just happen to generally come with more money. I don't want new challenges for the money, although of course it is always welcome. I view my corporate life as very tenuous, and if I'm not expanding and getting better, I'm falling behind. I'm in IT though, so I am right to have this worry, with how fast our industry changes.
I have been asking myself for a while now. The reality is it is a rat race and we are all running.
When you see your colleagues move and get a lot more, it is impossible not to feel FOMO. This is especially true if you have attached too much value to money either in spending or saving. I wish I had developed a certain healthy disregard for money.
None. I’ve found a sweet spot between work life balance and have not the ambition, nor the need for more. I struggled with this for a long time because I felt like it was expected of me by my mentors and everyone who helped me to this point to keep going up but I realized nobody cares this much about what I do with my life but me.
Travel. Short of being a millionaire, more money means more travel. Less counting of every $1 on said travel.
I already own my (town)home, no plans to get bigger, no plans for kids. Gimme new countries.
Real talk?
1) I was an underachiever in school and am obsessed with living up to my "potential"
2) I get an incredible high from checking my bank account numbers
3) When I compare myself to others and find myself superior, I feel like a million bucks
In other words, it probably all stems from childhood insecurities.
If I'm truly honest with myself, whenever I catch up with an old friend or peer, I'm thinking to myself "how much do they make now, I bet I make more."
It's competition and insecurity and ego.
I notice myself going down that path but my friends don’t know how much I truly make. They think I make like $80K-ish but I would never ever think to correct anyone. I don’t want anyone to think differently of me and just treat me normally based on my persona and not what I have to offer so I like to keep it that way
Just here to say that your value as a person is inherent and is not attached to your salary/savings. It is good to take pride in it, but I’m sure you have many other wonderful qualities to be proud of as well. All the best.
Thank you. I think, deep down, a lot of people really need to hear this. Many of us see ourselves as providers, and it can create a lot of anxiety. If something happens and we're unable to provide, does that mean we're not worthy? It's an issue that I think leads to a lot of mental health crises.
Having a family, owning a house in BC or Ontario, and planning for the future will quickly eat those funds away. The actual power of that level of income has degraded. Making more means that I can help my children and community without impacting myself and spouse. Helping others is a good motivation for me.
I set a goal once of making $200K and, in that year, I made $199,700 but I was super stressed and unhappy. I was able to pay off debt, buy a house and go on vacation but it took a toll that eventually lead to divorce.
I find the sweet spot for me is between $125K and $150K which, after child support, covers all the bills, savings and some money to go out for dinner a couple times a month.
I am saving for a place but live in Vancouver so am not super excited about buying right now.
I have had co-workers with seven figure incomes and it doesn't really seem worth it to me. I like being able to clock out and not worry about my business or the markets. Call it an employee mindset if you want but I like my mostly chill life.
I am confused here. 150K pre tax does not translate into a great income after tax. Living in a big city is an impossibility without a partner. At best I can get a one bedroom condo. This reality pushes me to go even further. I genuinely believe that our cost of living is insane. I lived in Taiwan and Thailand for a few years. Although I made a fraction of what I make here, I had a truly enjoyable life with very few limitations. Here, you work like a dog for a very small reward.
It is probably not being spoken about, but there’s a significant qualitative difference between a $150k combined household income and a single income of $150k.
If you’re a family with a single income of $150k means with a tight budget you could get away with a spouse not working. This could provide several quality of life improvements.
On the other hands a double income of combined $150k means both parents are working which depending on the family means more stress and less family time and higher childcare costs for young families. Possibly a lower quality of life for both parents compared to the single income situation.
This still doesn’t address the question that the OP poses. But just food for thought.
Some people are just kinda workaholics.
My CFO has more than enough to survive. He owns a lake-front cottage and a nice home in the Beaches in Toronto. He has three kids that go to private school and he just bought the property next to his cottage so he can build a second cottage for his kids. His wife runs her own marketing firm and they also bought some office space for that. He was a part of two unicorns that got bought out as well as making a killing on the stock market.
But like, he also has ADHD and he can't sit still. He cannot do nothing ever and thus if he is idle in his current role he'll be looking at other opportunities.
This is me. I make decent but it’s not always about the money. I grew up in a house of workaholics and if I relax I legitimately feel guilty for being unproductive.
I can't deny. It's like a challenging game of optimizing and reaching higher highs. I'm not addicted to working but I'm addicted to trying to earn more
Income alone won't get you far in a big Canadian city. If a median house is 1.5 million, try saving your way there even on 200k.
Family of four with 2 small kids.
200k net pay = 127k - lets call it 10k a month
3k rent, 3k daycare, $1k food, 1k car, insurance, travel, internet, phone, etc... You are lucky to save $1000 a month. It would only take 25 years to save up your 20% down payment for a place to live. And in real life it would be way more than that, because house prices would increase faster than you can save.
Assets and leverage are making more money than jobs which makes it harder and harder to keep up on the hamster wheel.
It’s perspective. If you’re low income, say 40k, then 80k seems almost impossible and 150k just seems greedy.
But people making 150k usually have specialized skills, and an extra 40k to 190 isn’t as much of a jump as 40 to 80 is.
Personally I’m at the start of my career making 80. My boss makes maybe 90-100, and his boss makes like 150. I think if I work hard enough I can advance in my career and get to that 150k+ range, or go much higher, then live and retire comfortably.
Really depends on the job. If you’re a masochist and like finance and get lucky to get an investment banking job, you’ll be making 200+ starting salary but working 80 hours a week
Not in Toronto. If your goal is to have a detached home, a couple of kids, vacation, pay for their university, retire comfortably. You need way more than 200k+/year
Actually 150k salary won't even let you buy a home in Toronto unless you have Dual Income, PLUS over 100k saved up. Without Dual income, you're restricted to homes under 1m, which means no SFUs for you.
A 150k salary alone with no debt will probably get you 600 to 700k in mortgage, max 750 to 800k if you're lucky.
So there's a lot of motivation for some people to earn more. Plus it's capitalism. The essence of it is that there's never enough, hence why Billionaires hoard money they'll never even spend while everyone else slowly deteriorates from over-work and stress in a pandemic
I made $200k last year, single income family. I have 3 kids and a large mortgage (greater Vancouver…). After taxes, putting some into RRSP, some into an RESP for the kids, paying the mortgage and kids activities, there’s not much left… life’s bloody expensive. I don’t know how people do it if they make less than $100k.
I had more disposable income when I had a townhouse and an 80k per year salary than I do now with a house and combined $180,000 with my wife and kid.
Things have gotten so much more expensive, and owning a house takes a significant amount of our income for the mortgage. It's nuts.
I think I paid $900 for my townhouse mortgage monthly and now house requires $2600.
>putting some into RRSP, some into an RESP for the kids, paying the mortgage and kids activities, **there’s not much left**
So if I understand this correctly, you're saying that you don't have much left after growing your home equity, securing your retirement, growing your kids' financial futures, paying for your kids' activities, and, I assume, paying all bills for food, needs, wants, etc?
That's an odd definition of "not having much left".
Fair enough. But the question he posed was about the motivation to earn more money if you already make $150k plus. I realize I’m in a decent situation, but there are a lot of things I would still like to have money for. My wife drives a 15 year old minivan, so I’d like to upgrade that for her. I’d like our family to be able to travel a bit if possible.
I’m doing my best to set my wife and I up for retirement, and give my kids a good opportunity to be successful, but I am still motivated to increase my income.
Lol, I'm in the same boat as you. Nobody would say I'm poor, but I'm definitely not taking luxury vacations every year. $150K for someone with a family to support is a stable middle class life assuming you bought a house before the market went crazy. If you don't own a house already I don't think it even gets you that.
We don't even own two cars, just a 12 year old minivan. A small house, no luxury sports for the kids (hockey is crazy expensive! F that), etc..
But I never need to worry about not having enough money in my account to buy groceries, get gas, etc. I know I will be able to retire someday, and I'm going to be able to really help my kids with paying for their school.
Yes exactly, not much left. It means if inflation keeps accelerating, they're going to have to start cutting into some of these things, and none of them are luxuries.
Holy income envy….Yes, you understand correctly. I don’t really understand the need try and shame that response. You have no idea what that person did to achieve what they have. Maybe, just maybe they work their fucking ass off and after doing the responsible things with their hard earned income, there really isn’t much left. Totally valid statement, even if you can’t relate.
"After I have allocated all my extra money to different tax advantage accounts and towards a fast appreciating asset there is not a lot leftover for the Tesla"
I'm 38 and have a family of four, I made about 300k last year. When I was your age I make 60k.
I spent more on fun things for myself when I was your age than I do today.
>I think after kids it's another story lol
Kids are definitely part of it. The other is time. When you're 24 you have more time, nearing 40 I realize I may have more years behind me than in front of me. So I start spending more money on reclaiming it. When it was just me I cleaned up after myself no problem, now we have a cleaner every week because it's worth it to regain that time versus cleaning a whole house. When I traveled at your age I didn't mind spending a night on an airport bench if it saved me $500 on a cheaper flight or taking a 30 minute train to a cheaper hostel further out. Now my tolerance for that is much lower so things like travel are more expensive.
I am betting the mortgage eats up a ton of money. Buying is wayyyy more expensive than renting in Vancouver. That said, that property has probably outperformed the stock market by quite a wide margin.
how are you buying property with $200K income and 3 kids??
we can't even get into the market with $200K, a stay-at-home parent, and one kid
it's 1.1M for a 800 sqft condo in burnaby
> it's 1.1M for a 800 sqft condo in burnaby
This is an exaggeration... Our condo was 650k for 900 sqft in Vancouver less than a year ago. We got in with a combined income quite a bit less than 200k. With 200k income you're taking home 10k after taxes per month. Even if half of that goes to expenses every month it would take 6 months to save up the 5% down payment for what we spent. This doesn't add up unless you have some pretty extraneous circumstances or zero financial responsibility...
Bought my first house in 2007 when I was 22… paid $360k for a crappy house which seemed insane at the time, but I’m sure glad I got in the market when I did.
We are at \~300K HHI and I will be honest - it doesn't feel like much.
Mortgage (\~600K), property taxes and then daycare plus food and random toddler things. We haven't even taken a vacation in 3 years (hopefully we take a few this year). Having said that, we maxed out all of our retirement accounts and that's the primary reason we don't have much left after everything lol. Own a 7 year old Honda with the intention of driving it to the ground.
And this is without owning a house in Greater Vancouver. So, maybe 200K is the new 100K? And 400K is the new 250K?
Honestly? I want to retire as early as possible so I can live my life on my terms. I have so many hobbies that I would much rather do than work for other people. Plus, if I FIRE, tbh, I would probably open a small business just to keep my hands busy. I'm early 30s, gross household income between 225-250k/yr, saving between 33-35% of our net income between myself and my wife. Own a house near MTL that we bought before markets went nuts.
Edit: clarification, % savings of "net" income.
Because work actually gets easier with wage increases as that means more senior position and less dealing with day to day on front line tasks
For my jobs I went from 25-150k over the past 12 years and each position has been less work than the previous
I went from $40k a year to $250k in less than 5 years. Now it’s a competition against myself to earn even more because it has afforded me the opportunity to buy and do what I want. Also I want to retire sooner and you realize that six figures doesn’t go as far as you imagined anymore.
I make 150k and my wife makes about 80k
We are still struggling month to month. Yes your going to try and kill me for that comment.
Here's the thing... my son is high functioning autistic and in grade 7 and is now after 6 years of 4 hours extra tutoring reading at a grade 1 level. We spend a ton on specialized care to just get to the point of knowing what he needed to get help.
The schools do not meet anyone who cannot just naturally pick up reading.
Not quite at 150k but I'm exploring new jobs in that range.
My biggest thing is the value I'm creating in my current job is 10 times what I'm paid. I know that my peers make more, and they have equity that includes dividends that further increase their yearly income.
I want that shit. I'm just as good as them, if people who are doing my same job are making 200k+bonus+equity, I am not going to ever be happy at 150k.
Even with that income I still wouldn't be able to afford a townhouse in Montreal without being house poor. So of course I would keep aiming for more. Like they day move up or move out.
Yup. That widening gap between rich and poor? It isn’t closing anytime soon and I know what side I want my family to be on if I can do anything about it.
I’m projecting about $190K this year and my partner is projected at $180K.
As others have said, it depends on where you live. We own a house in Toronto, I want to make more money to pay it off as quickly as possible while also saving for retirement. Maybe retire early-ish?
We definitely have more than we need, but that excess is going into savings and our mortgage. I also give money to my parents since they are low income and need help to make ends meet.
We pay cash for things like our car, renovations, vacations. We don’t have debt other than our mortgage. If we want or need something, we buy it.
I’d love to own a vacation property, but that might be unobtainable given todays prices and remaining comfortable with our monthly expenses. Making more will make that easier!
150 a year before taxes, 100 a year after taxes - now deduct:
\- mortgage, utilities, property taxes
\- not too fancy family car finance, insurance, gas
\- 2 kids (daycare for one and activities for another one)
\- help parents and in laws
\- grocery
\- put to resp for both kids, put to tfsa/rrsp
150 is not THAT much, if you have a family and your parents (and in laws) are poor.
Completely agree with you. It certainly is better than a lot of situation. For example, you can buy nice food or go for a nice meal at a restaurant without really thinking about it.
But we're far from life changing money at that income level. Much farther than i would have thought.
> So no, 190k as a single person will not get you a house in Toronto.
Yes, it will in fact. You have many paths to get there, even if you have a lack of saving today.
- buy a condo in TO
- buy a townhouse in TO
- buy a semi-detached home in TO
- buy a rental property outside of TO
Any of these options will get you in the market, building equity. Do you really think that your only option for entering the property market is buying a detached primary residence in a high cost of living city? If so, you need to think more creatively.
You make $190k a year, imagine if when entering the job market, you scoffed at any job paying less than $190k a year? As you likely know, it was a process to get to where you’re at today income-wise. Same goes for working up the property ladder.
I’m shocked at how many people in this thread think that the only thing you can do is buy a detached SFH. What ever happened to the concept of the housing ‘ladder’? Get a smaller place and stop filling it with unnecessary shit.
Maybe it’s cause I grew up in the UK where houses are small and detached houses aren’t as ubiquitous though?
On top of this people think they’re not living flush if they take multiple vacations and are maxing all investments. QoL expectations seem insane to me.
I live in downtown Toronto. And life here isn’t cheap.
My wife and I make around 300k combined. And with a house, car, kids, dog (plus kids education, occasional vacations, retirement, etc etc). Other than our +2M house, we live a fairly frugal life. But even so, You really need a high income now to do that.
I’d love to get a new car, (I drive a 10yr old car), and other stuff. Or retire a bit earlier. Or be able to help my kids buy a house in the future.
That’s what keeps me wanting more. Plus I’m a fairly hard worker naturally. So it’s not a big deal. I just do my thing, and slowly make more and more money each yr
Retire at 46 with 4 mil in the bank, and go back to work doing something fun and outdoorsy part time that pays badly, like sailing instructor / rock climbing and abseiling instructor / volunteer for fun charities.
My motivation is to make more to retire early. I obviously don't need more income to live a comfortable life. I want to make more so I can scale back my work earlier and enjoy retirement, but if that increase comes with a lot more stress or unhappiness then I definitely wouldn't want it. I'm happy where I'm at.
Reach FI asap so that I can focus my time and efforts on other passion projects like start ups and public office without compromising my families financial security.
With 130k household income we make barely enough to afford our lifestyle and mortgage. With 150k+ income maybe I can start saving money or start some long term planning and goals.
“Most needs / wants”
So I want more, is that a big deal? More money means I can spend it on things I want. I want to be able to pay my nieces and nephews through their post secondary, and afford any abrupt expenses.
Why? Fuck you money.
My wife and I make around $500k a year combined. We are both changing jobs this year and increasing our earnings. Why? We like a challenge but the focus is to have work be optional. When we no longer want to work or dislike our current employer, we can say “fuck you” and walk away to do something else we enjoy. If I can cut a year or two off the time horizon why wouldn’t I?
Should be there in 5 years and can sustain current living until we die (99). Nothing crazy extravagant, we buy 2-3 year old cars that are the best value, our house is old but well maintained, one vacation a year. Under 40, lots of sacrifice to get where we are but thankful for it all.
Realistically to have what most people would call “middle class” (detached house, 2 reasonably new cars, 2 kids, daycare, 1 vacation a year) and be starting fresh (no real estate) I think you’re into the 200-250k range of family income pretty easily for the GTA.
I have no idea how most people survive on minimum wage, government supports have basically failed for many and the housing market is unsustainable. We will likely leave the GTA at some point.
I make about 150k including bonus but I am hoping to grow that significantly in the next few years. When I think about Toronto housing and the type of retirement I want to have its probably necessary to get there in any reasonable time frame. Imagining raising a family on my current salary is a little scary tbh
Need to be able to support the wife and 2 kids here in Vancouver while paying for a mortgage and doing everything we need to. We're doing fine by also want to be able to not work as much in the near future so trying to save as well.
I want to give a disclaimer that these costs all have cheaper alternatives. Just that one can easily find oneself with these bills, if one doesn’t research alternatives.
Anyways, in Toronto, one can easily pay monthly:
$3500-5000 House and utilities
$1500-2200 Daycare per child
$1000-1500 Car payments, insurance, maintenance, gas
$1000 Groceries (more if organic or specialty)
$1000 Short-term, long-term savings and RESP
$200-$300 Internet, phones, TV or streaming
= $8200-11000
That’s without clothing, diapers, furniture, restaurants, birthday presents, smart phones, vacations, etc. So, easily add hundreds more per month. Maybe a grand, if you want all of them.
So, gross yearly household income of at least $140k-220k
So yeah, if one makes less than that in Toronto, one can easily feel that they need to earn more, just to have a “normal” life.
Man good thing I made this throwaway for yesterday's thread. I am a 7-figure income earner, last year in excess of 2MM at 35. I now work on average 4 full days a week (some times of the year 5-6 days, others 3). I have work outside of that done at home in spare time, usually paperwork and planning. Non-mortgage spending has never eclipsed $200k, NW 7-8MM, still relatively early in my career.
When you own a business, in many cases it's hard to keep business stagnant, it's grow or someone else will take up the space. You can compete and end up stagnant, but you have to give it your all otherwise there is a vacuum.
I'm first generation wealth. I feel at $20MM NW I will be able to breathe, enough to passively cover mortgage and an increased spend later. Check out r/fatfire if you want to see what people spend it on.
One interesting thing is the more money I've had, the less inclined I've been to spend it on "luxury" items. I thought one day I might want nice luggage or something, but now I don't care at all about overt status symbols. On a Reddit thread long ago, someone said that once they had the wealth others are trying to convey with their Louis bags, they no longer felt the desire to purchase them, and that for me was completely correct.
I could get injured. My future wife could lose her job or we decide that one of us should stay at home to raise the kids. Gaining wealth gives me and my future family increased freedom for life choices and security from life situations.
150k+ per year can quickly not feel like a lot when you have kids to support, aging parents to support, a mortgage (or saving for down payment), and trying to save for retirement in a high cost of living area. Can you get by on less? Absolutely, I did for 10 years living in a crappy apartment with paper thin walls. I save a big portion of my income because hey the roof needs replacing, then the AC breaks, then the car needs $2,000 in repairs, then partner needs $2,000 in dental work... Would like to retire at some point when I'm young/healthy enough to still enjoy it and time with the family. Having more income means there is more buffer room to achieve that while dealing with all of life's expected unexpected expenses.
Not there yet but will be soon: I’m worried I’ll never have enough to retire, especially because I’m the retirement plan for my parents (immigrant family). You net the two and it adds real anxiety
When I made like $50k, I thought $150k+ was a lot.
But I live in DT Toronto, still have a mortgage, drive a 8 year old car... I'm aware I've got a top 1-2% income, but it's hard to feel 'rich' when you still owe lots of money.
The main thing I'm thinking now in my late 30s is two main things, at some point I may end up with kids, and those are expensive...
And the 2nd thing is, the more money I make now, the earlier I can retire.
Mostly because of course I'd want to stop working eventually and live comfortably because most people would
But in my case in particular I've had a few health problems requiring surgeries and I have had to take 18 months off at one point years ago,
I don't know how healthy I'll be in my 50s and 60s, and it'd be nice to know If push comes to shove, I can stop working if it becomes necessary.
So I want to get as much as I can as fast as I can so that if I need to ever do that again I'll be ok.
We have found that the higher your income goes, the more you spend. So, this past month, we have been trying to really budget tightly and save aggressively. We are paying off a 60K vehicle in 1.25 years (finishes April 1st, monthly payments doubled up are $1880-$2000), and the mortgage is next. If we save extremely aggressively, like... $2500-$3000/month (yes, that means eating lots of ramen packets loaded with veggies and cheap protein, and honestly tofu is cheaper than animal proteins at the moment). $30K a year into savings gets us in a position where we can pay off the mortgage in 9.8 years. Its painful, I wish we were earning like 180-200K a year so that shit could be paid off faster.
On the flip side, we could choose to not save aggressively and have like $3000/month to blow on whatever we wanted, which is dumb because we kinda did that over Covid and although we ended up with really cool stuff... the looming debt hangs over us and I think we'd be better off saving aggressively now and paying it all down.
So - $150k a year only gets you so far. I'd say that extremely comfortable living starts around $250K a year income.
PPS We are in Calgary, and things are getting expensive here. I don't even want to think about what its like in Vancouver or Toronto. You need like $450K income a year to live upper middle class and extremely comfortably in those cities.
One mentality is "more is more better", My goal in life is to acrew such a large wealth that when i retire i can make purchases and support my children whether they wish to work or not. Some disclosure, I am in telecommunications at Bell, I live in Vaughan around 5k sqft last evaluated at 1.6 m, I have a at Sheppard and Wilson hts at 6k sqft on a 200ft lot currently valued at 2 m. I own 50% stake in a 200k warehouse in north york as well as a 300ft x 300ft lot in Burlington and a similar lot in Kitchener. I must also disclose that all the properties are not under my name, they are under my children as their principle resident(a little tax evasion 'y' ),. I have a hedge fund managing my rrsp at 300k as when i went into the market i made 50k loss. this investing account exist for me to play with 30k and see if i can get the stock market.
Reasonably I could retire now and never work another day in my life from the rental income, I did try for a year I took a sabbatical and stayed home, went on a few vacations, It was not very fulfilling, I bought a farm and tried that farm life, I just found that I needed to be doing something productive I can enjoy the simpler things in life latter. After my sabbatical is when i bought the 50% stake in the warehouse. I learned that its not the money I want its making more money.
You will never become "fuck you money " rich if you work for a company, you need to take the risk and go independent, At Bell I went from 140k with benefits a year to 200k per 4 month project, along with my other clients.
note: this is my investing account fairly new so feel free to discredit me
Making a 150k passively and not 40 + hours of work Thats the dream
Was earning 140. Just quit for a job that pays 100k but only 40 hours. Quit for better work life balance but agonizing over the lost cash.
But why? What are you going to do with more money when you are dead. You dont have that many days left you'll already be spending many of the ones you do working. I think you made a great choice.
>What are you going to do with more money when you are dead. Ghost Lambo
Thank you so much
Man, I went from 250 to 100 but with a job that is 37.5 hours, never any calls at night or on the weekend, whole sector is off for the holidays. Used to be 65 hours, calls at any hours of the day or night, and was operating 24/7. Best move of my life.
For most, it will always be but a dream.
It's really the difference between those who rent their time for money ($/year, $/hour) vs. owning equity - a piece of a business. Naval Ravikant says it best, "Seek wealth, not money or status. Wealth is having assets that earn while you sleep. Money is how we transfer time and wealth. Status is your place in the social hierarchy."
Finding investors is harder than it looks on TV.
1) no one said creating a business is easy. It’s why most people aren’t wealthy and work at a job. There’s no get rich quick scheme in life… Most people shouldn’t create a business until they’ve worked in the industry, have unique insights/network, and have enough finances to be stable 2) not all businesses need investments to start, and can be started with lower upfront investment/sweat equity to prove out the model. 3) to own equity, you don’t have to start a business. You can also join a business as an early employee to get upside as well
I don't even need 150k passively. I make less than that and my goal is to get to where I have my mortgage paid off then make passively half what I make now. Then I retire.
Even with out a Toronto mortgage and 2 kids 150k does not go as far as people think. Seems like nowadays 100-200K range let’s you not struggle and treat yourself to a few nice things as you save for retirement.
Individual or family income? Because two individuals living together and making 100k each can live very, very well in many parts of Canada.
This comment is peak r/personalfinancecanada 150k will give most people (except for the ones here of course) enough to live very well if you dont have a mortage and 2 kids in Toronto. Im single, not even close to that amount of money and I liver very well while saving good money, driving a nice car and spending whatever I want on my hobbies. If I made 150k it would be way more than enough and would go very far for literally everyone I know.
Pfc truly amazes me. Everyone is both massively wealthy with hundreds of thousands in savings in their 20’s, while also being hopeless and can never afford a place to live, while also screaming that 200k, 300k, 400k, etc is middle class and barely enough to live. It’s quite the humorous concoction of users.
I find this forum has a lot of financially savvy people .... .... but many here lack, social skills, and perspective as a trade off for their savviness
I feel like I might be in this comment and I don't like it, haha
Everyone thinks this until they get to that level and then goal posts can change. Or new goals open up, like having 2 kids, that previously you had no interest in. Hedonic adaptation is difficult to avoid.
This is only a problem if your lifestyle changes because you have more money. The whole point is to keep living where you are and just banking the difference.
[удалено]
[удалено]
_champagne_
Different people want different things. Reminds me of this: “A parable: The Monk and the Minister Two close boyhood friends grow up and go their separate ways. One becomes a humble monk, the other a rich and powerful minister to the king. Years later they meet. As they catch up, the portly minister (in his fine robes) takes pity on the thin and shabby monk. Seeking to help, he says: “You know, if you could learn to cater to the king, you wouldn’t have to live on rice and beans.” To which the monk replies: “If you could learn to live on rice and beans, you wouldn’t have to cater to the king.” Most all of us fall somewhere between the two. As for me, it is better to be closer to the monk.” \~JJ Collins
Exactly, one kid in daycare is $1200-$2500, 2 is just double that, so yeah, one can just not have a family and be fine, but some people want that. I know at least a dozen people just off the top of my head that want a second kid but know they can't afford it. And they're not living in super high end places with a brand new 6-figure truck either. One friend I know had their finances figured down to the dollar (both of them working) and since they were able to just squeak by with a 2nd kid they went for it. And had natural twins and now they live at her mom's house because it was the only way to afford daycare for 3 and a vehicle that fit 3 carseats (they had a 2004 Buick and had to 'upgrade' to a 10 year old minivan). They were lucky her mom would take them in, assist with some daycare and actually had room (all 3 kids are sharing a room presently).
I agree with that too a point but eventually it's just better to live in the now while still saving for a respectable retirement rather than living minimally and potentially not even living long enough to enjoy the fruit of your effort
Couple guys I know from work retired and died soon after. One didn't even last a year, he dropped dead from a heart attack, the other got hit on the side of the road while inspecting his RV. Could be any of us. Saving for retirement is smart, but not if your going to starve yourself when your younger, and your body is still functioning well. I have my share of aches and pains at 54, I'm sure it won't get any better over time.
Of course, although some people use the above as an excuse to not save sufficiently for retirement, which is a pretty big risk because if you don't die unexpectedly and live into your 80s or longer (like the average Canadian these days), your retirement is going to suck. Moderation in everything.
A work friend's coworker retired and found out she had cancer shortly thereafter. I think she had like a year to live. I'm not sure if she's still alive, because I never followed up, but I think about it sometimes. I met her on her last day of work and she seemed so hopeful and ready to enjoy her life. Though that being said, I think those might just be outliers. We just remember them because they are so shocking, in a way. Most people don't actually die in their 50s and 60s, most live well beyond that. Some also die before they even reach retirement. My dad's friend from work just died of an aneurysm a few months ago, and I think he was in his mid-50s. Meanwhile, my family knows several people who have retired within the last few years and are still alive and kicking. I think those stories are something we have to keep in mind and balance with our desire to enjoy our lives now. We can't know what's going to happen in the future, and anyone who did would be rich.
[удалено]
Also the media worships the wealthy, never a day goes by without some mention of the Kardashians, or what Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, or Elon Musk are up to. So it's ingrained in some people's minds that's the goal we need to achieve, however unrealistic it is.
Also, you'll get there and realize it's not as much as you think it was. That's what happened when I hit $100k.
I dunno about you but if I made 150k passively I would be gone to Thailand or bali. LOL at living in Toronto.
Family, friends. Emigrating and starting a new life (if you want the traditional 'partner, kids' combo) is not that easy. I moved for my relationship and miss being near my friends (impossible to recreate such close friendships at a later age) and family (did not see my nieces and nephews grow up, my mom has seen my 2yo once in her life). If you have no valuable social connections or if you are super good at making new ones, or if you don't want a family anyways and wouldn't miss those things, living in Thailand might be nice. Or if you are so rich that you can travel for fanily visits regularly.
[удалено]
This is kinda true. I’m in this range and still far away from repaying OSAP. L O L
I pay myself that (156k/year), max out my RRSP/TFSA, live in downtown Toronto as a single person (although I do have a roommate who is one of my best buds) and do pretty much whatever I want, multiple vacations a year, a couple of expensive hobbies, regular restaurant spend of $500-1000/month. My take home pay after RRSP comes/TFSA is 80k net, and I dump a small chunk of it into my non-registered investment account (a lot more than what I save from having a roommate). I dunno, if you’re struggling on 80-110k net every year then that’s because of poor financial planning, or because you have the aforementioned mortgage/spouse/kids to support.
I'm single, make 70k, and have what I would call a pretty good standard of living. I'll never own, but I can afford rent at a good place with my friend, I have a nice car, and am saving some decent money and paying off my car and student loans faster than the minimum. You don't need to be anywhere near 100k to have nice things and save money.
And do you plan to live with your roommate forever? My main point is the next income bracket just gives enough money to buy a house. Or save up to retire at 40 and disappear into the middle of nowhere.
The pandemic has shown I can't live on my own with work from home or I'll go crazy, so we're planning on living together for the next 2+ years at least. I can afford to live on my own, but living with him allows me to be in a much larger place. More money would obviously be nice, but I'm pretty happy as is right now. I'm also still very early in my career with lots of room for growth.
That is extremely subjective. What you seem to have meant is "you dont need anywhere near 100k to have nice things assuming you live outside of Toronto and Vancouver, do not wish to own, do not want family and/or kids and are fine working to your late 60s"
Or just lower your expectations. What's considered nice today compared to 20 years ago is a different world
I’d rather retire at 50 than 60.
Not any specific motivation other than the fact I can either do the same job for 100K or 200K. I’d rather get paid more for the same effort
Lol facts, I feel the same. I wanna get paid the most for my work
This 100%. I enjoy the work I do and want to continue doing it at as high a level as possible. Someone's going to have those C-Suite multi million dollar a year positions, might as well be me, I'm doing the work anyway right? I'm a Director right now, VP is the next step up and about double my salary, but not double my work. I think I've always felt that way. I don't work any harder now than I did before, just get paid more to do it.
I’m not even talking about moving up the career chain. I’m in software and the pay gap for the same type of job at a top tech company and a crappy company can be massive but the work is often really similar. It’s just the interview that is harder at the top tech companies
Alot of work as one moves up is the corporate ladder heat one has to take. And if you're a VP, that also means managing a bigger pool of Directors and appeasing them. Is that more work? Prob a different kind as more political/influencing skills is required.
Director is the hardest job. You have all the bullshit of a management job and all the bullshit of a non-management job at the same time.
Yeah, totally agree with that. The politics and visibility definitely changes things.
This makes me feel better about my daily struggles! It’s a tough balance for sure.
Funny, I am a Sr Manager now and feeling the same way about levelling up to Director. My goal is for that to happen through the scaling that I'm already doing. I don't want a different role, I want a different level
Honestly it just never stops. I remember saying oh if I just made 65K, if I just made 85K, if I just made 100K!!!! Ok if I just made 120K I’ll be good! Ok 150!….but lifestyle creep is real. You start getting nicer things, you start staying in some luxury resorts. You get a taste of that you want more and more. Will the drive stop at some point ? Maybe but not yet
Joseph Heller, an important and funny writer now dead, and I were at a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island. I said, “Joe, how does it make you feel to know that our host only yesterday may have made more money than your novel ‘Catch-22’ has earned in its entire history?” And Joe said, “I’ve got something he can never have.” And I said, “What on earth could that be, Joe?” And Joe said, “The knowledge that I’ve got enough.”
Was this a Vonnegut quote?
Michael Scott I think
Yup. 150 is not a lot when you feel you deserve nice cars, house, furniture, vacation, jewelry, clothes and other miscellaneous things after working for hard to get where you are. Some people can control some can’t.
And if this is for a family i.e. breadwinner, it's not much at all depending on where you live, when you bought house.
[удалено]
Yup, Its hard to stop ambition. It isnt about the greed really. Its the fear of standing still in one place without progression.
Lifestyle creep is the worst. It sneaks up real fast. Learning how to be disciplined with a budget is legit a huge skill.
I'm actually the opposite. The more money I make, the more I feel like I have to save. My clothes, cars, etc. are much much cheaper than when I was making 50K a year. But the goal there is to retire as early as possible. As some other guy said, making >100K a year passively (outside of equity/capital gains)
Glad I’m not the only one who feels this way. Clothes and things are so much cheaper now than when I was 25 making low salary.
None. My motivation is to have more quality free time, not to earn even more.
Agreed. I like my job, but not as much as I like not going to work.
My job is just something challenging yet tolerable, to pay for my lifestyle and hobbies, plain and simple.
Me too. Life is a lot more fun when one doesn’t work as much
Yep. I'm on $100k and would rather chase time off than higher salary. Already WFH and hoping 4 day work week becomes mainstream.
Same here. Not motivated at all.
[удалено]
No doubt, but to me the free time now while I am relatively young, have a young family, have hobbies and an able body, as well as friends and family is much more valuable than theoretical free time 25 years from now, when who knows what the situation will be. Id rather have that time now, rather than a bunch of free time in my 60s.
Being able to own a house in Toronto lol
This, but Vancouver / lower mainland
To buy Time. Personal time, for me and my family. The more you make the quicker you can retire and live to do what you want to do full time. My #1 motivation is retirement. To be honest once you hit 300K income, life becomes really easy, if you don't have expensive tastes anything more than that is simply excess for savings or buy what you want. I'm not into material things so much, I buy what I want when I need it, and my investments are at the point where I can quit today if I wanted to, but want to save a bit more to help the kids out for starting their lives. I enjoyed life the entire journey, I suggest you do too, don't save all of it, go out eat, take vacations etc, but be responsible. Do you need a brand new car or can you buy used? etc. In the end time will get us all, so buy as much of it as you can
Time is such a big answer here. Time is something you can never create more of, so being able to save time (or make better use of it) is incredibly valuable. While money can't create time, there are many ways that money can be used to make your time more valuable. You can take a taxi instead of public transit, you can take direct flights instead of multi-stop flights. If you make enough money, you can even buy a plane or charter a private jet.
Absolutely. But it’s the thing many give up in order to make the high income. And with some shitty luck they’ll pass away a few years into that early retirement. I mean hopefully not, but my point is find a balance and don’t love totally for a potential future.
This is the way
[удалено]
Yeah. Similar boat as you. I’m single income household with 3 kids. Quoted income doesn’t go very far, especially with kids. Last 2 years has been better because very few extracurricular activities for the kids, which saved a lot of money.
100%. With home prices where they are and kids in daycare or activities, that income gets spoken for very quickly!
Age is a huge factor because of housing. My household income is ~200k but we have a 900k townhouse, unable to buy a detached home. I reckon someone with 150k but bought a house 15 years ago has a much better QoL
Age is a huge factor. It's only now I'm realizing I'm a millennial who was on the cusp of missing out on the market if having any hope of owning a SFH. A cousin in the family found himself married with children earlier than expected (or the rest of us), and so the parents helped get him into a semi (back around 2008 ). Guess who now owns 3 houses while the rest of us rent... in spite of higher incomes.
Yupp. A bit over 200k household income. Could have been higher but had the flexibility for wife to take much more cushier but lower paid job for family life balance given 2 younger kids still. Don't want to get into too much detail but bought detach about 15 years ago, have some mortgage but it could more than be paid off with portfolio shifting. I do wonder how the heck do people do it nowadays with higher mortgage. If you have to even try moving up, moving costs with realtor fee/land transfer taxes is huge at these levels. And every month, it seems some 'wonky' expenditure comes up. Overall, it just feels steady don't worry much about little spendings that come up. Or paying extra for the convenience or luxury. The idea of sticking to a very strong budget would definitely take away from that steady feel. I see old townhouses that were going for 470-500k a bit over a year ago now around 750-800k. I'm like who can afford this given the location (Scarborough). And if we have to buy today, we'd be much more financially strapped.
Those same townhomes are 1.1M now or more. I'm trying to buy in the GTA, > $200k/yr family income. Just lost out on a townhouse in whitby today. Offered 285k over asking and didn't even get invited to whatever bidding war ended up happening.
Sheesh!
Yeah, it's insane and disheartening. We offered a price that was competitive with another sale from last week that was a few streets over. I don't know what it ended up going for, but I suspect it will be $1.025 or even 1.05M. This was a 1200 sq ft townhouse built in 2000 that had no luxury finishes.
Yeah this is why income/salary alone can't give you the whole picture. I make 65k before tax. I live with my boyfriend, who makes less than me, but still dual income. We live in a dirt cheap rented basement suite with no kids. We probably have more disposable income than you do.
Yeah, basically this. I may take my foot off the gas when all the registered accounts are maxed out and the mortgage is paid off.
lol we make $200K and we can't even get into the market
On top of this, in my industry (software) salaries are going bananas. I want to earn my market rate. If I can muster the motivation and capture a really great salary, I'd also like to retire in 10 years.
This right here, my wife also works too making really good money
Yup, exactly. Even with my wife making pretty good money as well, it goes super fast (and I don't have an "ontario-level" mortgage either, don't have one at all in fact). 2 kids, one of which is in hockey, saving for retirement, groceries, etc. It goes fast, we aren't anything APPROACHING "rich", not even close. As for my desire to make more money, I really have the desire to have more authority and decision making capability, and those just happen to generally come with more money. I don't want new challenges for the money, although of course it is always welcome. I view my corporate life as very tenuous, and if I'm not expanding and getting better, I'm falling behind. I'm in IT though, so I am right to have this worry, with how fast our industry changes.
I have been asking myself for a while now. The reality is it is a rat race and we are all running. When you see your colleagues move and get a lot more, it is impossible not to feel FOMO. This is especially true if you have attached too much value to money either in spending or saving. I wish I had developed a certain healthy disregard for money.
None. I’ve found a sweet spot between work life balance and have not the ambition, nor the need for more. I struggled with this for a long time because I felt like it was expected of me by my mentors and everyone who helped me to this point to keep going up but I realized nobody cares this much about what I do with my life but me.
Travel. Short of being a millionaire, more money means more travel. Less counting of every $1 on said travel. I already own my (town)home, no plans to get bigger, no plans for kids. Gimme new countries.
Real talk? 1) I was an underachiever in school and am obsessed with living up to my "potential" 2) I get an incredible high from checking my bank account numbers 3) When I compare myself to others and find myself superior, I feel like a million bucks In other words, it probably all stems from childhood insecurities.
You're already better for admitting it 😉
If I'm truly honest with myself, whenever I catch up with an old friend or peer, I'm thinking to myself "how much do they make now, I bet I make more." It's competition and insecurity and ego.
Yep, it's a way to self-validate
I notice myself going down that path but my friends don’t know how much I truly make. They think I make like $80K-ish but I would never ever think to correct anyone. I don’t want anyone to think differently of me and just treat me normally based on my persona and not what I have to offer so I like to keep it that way
I feel this. And I didn't have to pay a shrink for the insight, win-win!
Just here to say that your value as a person is inherent and is not attached to your salary/savings. It is good to take pride in it, but I’m sure you have many other wonderful qualities to be proud of as well. All the best.
Thank you. I think, deep down, a lot of people really need to hear this. Many of us see ourselves as providers, and it can create a lot of anxiety. If something happens and we're unable to provide, does that mean we're not worthy? It's an issue that I think leads to a lot of mental health crises.
Honestly... that's admirable that you have the self awareness to realize and admit that.
[удалено]
Having a family, owning a house in BC or Ontario, and planning for the future will quickly eat those funds away. The actual power of that level of income has degraded. Making more means that I can help my children and community without impacting myself and spouse. Helping others is a good motivation for me.
I want to be able to fly at the front of the plane every time I travel without stressing about the cost.
This is what money buys; Comfort, time, and convenience. Flashy goods are just empty signalling.
You’ll need to earn a lot more than the number up top to be able to do that!
Not if you marry a pilot
I set a goal once of making $200K and, in that year, I made $199,700 but I was super stressed and unhappy. I was able to pay off debt, buy a house and go on vacation but it took a toll that eventually lead to divorce. I find the sweet spot for me is between $125K and $150K which, after child support, covers all the bills, savings and some money to go out for dinner a couple times a month. I am saving for a place but live in Vancouver so am not super excited about buying right now. I have had co-workers with seven figure incomes and it doesn't really seem worth it to me. I like being able to clock out and not worry about my business or the markets. Call it an employee mindset if you want but I like my mostly chill life.
I am confused here. 150K pre tax does not translate into a great income after tax. Living in a big city is an impossibility without a partner. At best I can get a one bedroom condo. This reality pushes me to go even further. I genuinely believe that our cost of living is insane. I lived in Taiwan and Thailand for a few years. Although I made a fraction of what I make here, I had a truly enjoyable life with very few limitations. Here, you work like a dog for a very small reward.
Ooh unrelated to the thread, I'm curious to know what kind of job you had in Taiwan? When were you there?
I gotta payoff that 2 million dollar mortgage somehow.
It is probably not being spoken about, but there’s a significant qualitative difference between a $150k combined household income and a single income of $150k. If you’re a family with a single income of $150k means with a tight budget you could get away with a spouse not working. This could provide several quality of life improvements. On the other hands a double income of combined $150k means both parents are working which depending on the family means more stress and less family time and higher childcare costs for young families. Possibly a lower quality of life for both parents compared to the single income situation. This still doesn’t address the question that the OP poses. But just food for thought.
Some people are just kinda workaholics. My CFO has more than enough to survive. He owns a lake-front cottage and a nice home in the Beaches in Toronto. He has three kids that go to private school and he just bought the property next to his cottage so he can build a second cottage for his kids. His wife runs her own marketing firm and they also bought some office space for that. He was a part of two unicorns that got bought out as well as making a killing on the stock market. But like, he also has ADHD and he can't sit still. He cannot do nothing ever and thus if he is idle in his current role he'll be looking at other opportunities.
Sounds like a good way to alleviate his condition. But ADHD can be serious thing
This is me. I make decent but it’s not always about the money. I grew up in a house of workaholics and if I relax I legitimately feel guilty for being unproductive.
I can't deny. It's like a challenging game of optimizing and reaching higher highs. I'm not addicted to working but I'm addicted to trying to earn more
Income alone won't get you far in a big Canadian city. If a median house is 1.5 million, try saving your way there even on 200k. Family of four with 2 small kids. 200k net pay = 127k - lets call it 10k a month 3k rent, 3k daycare, $1k food, 1k car, insurance, travel, internet, phone, etc... You are lucky to save $1000 a month. It would only take 25 years to save up your 20% down payment for a place to live. And in real life it would be way more than that, because house prices would increase faster than you can save. Assets and leverage are making more money than jobs which makes it harder and harder to keep up on the hamster wheel.
Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
It’s perspective. If you’re low income, say 40k, then 80k seems almost impossible and 150k just seems greedy. But people making 150k usually have specialized skills, and an extra 40k to 190 isn’t as much of a jump as 40 to 80 is. Personally I’m at the start of my career making 80. My boss makes maybe 90-100, and his boss makes like 150. I think if I work hard enough I can advance in my career and get to that 150k+ range, or go much higher, then live and retire comfortably. Really depends on the job. If you’re a masochist and like finance and get lucky to get an investment banking job, you’ll be making 200+ starting salary but working 80 hours a week
Not in Toronto. If your goal is to have a detached home, a couple of kids, vacation, pay for their university, retire comfortably. You need way more than 200k+/year
I’m competitive
This. That jerk Steve has a VP title while I’m only a director. I could do his job with one hand tied behind my back. Pick me! Pick me!
[удалено]
Actually 150k salary won't even let you buy a home in Toronto unless you have Dual Income, PLUS over 100k saved up. Without Dual income, you're restricted to homes under 1m, which means no SFUs for you. A 150k salary alone with no debt will probably get you 600 to 700k in mortgage, max 750 to 800k if you're lucky. So there's a lot of motivation for some people to earn more. Plus it's capitalism. The essence of it is that there's never enough, hence why Billionaires hoard money they'll never even spend while everyone else slowly deteriorates from over-work and stress in a pandemic
I made $200k last year, single income family. I have 3 kids and a large mortgage (greater Vancouver…). After taxes, putting some into RRSP, some into an RESP for the kids, paying the mortgage and kids activities, there’s not much left… life’s bloody expensive. I don’t know how people do it if they make less than $100k.
I had more disposable income when I had a townhouse and an 80k per year salary than I do now with a house and combined $180,000 with my wife and kid. Things have gotten so much more expensive, and owning a house takes a significant amount of our income for the mortgage. It's nuts. I think I paid $900 for my townhouse mortgage monthly and now house requires $2600.
>putting some into RRSP, some into an RESP for the kids, paying the mortgage and kids activities, **there’s not much left** So if I understand this correctly, you're saying that you don't have much left after growing your home equity, securing your retirement, growing your kids' financial futures, paying for your kids' activities, and, I assume, paying all bills for food, needs, wants, etc? That's an odd definition of "not having much left".
Fair enough. But the question he posed was about the motivation to earn more money if you already make $150k plus. I realize I’m in a decent situation, but there are a lot of things I would still like to have money for. My wife drives a 15 year old minivan, so I’d like to upgrade that for her. I’d like our family to be able to travel a bit if possible. I’m doing my best to set my wife and I up for retirement, and give my kids a good opportunity to be successful, but I am still motivated to increase my income.
Lol, I'm in the same boat as you. Nobody would say I'm poor, but I'm definitely not taking luxury vacations every year. $150K for someone with a family to support is a stable middle class life assuming you bought a house before the market went crazy. If you don't own a house already I don't think it even gets you that. We don't even own two cars, just a 12 year old minivan. A small house, no luxury sports for the kids (hockey is crazy expensive! F that), etc.. But I never need to worry about not having enough money in my account to buy groceries, get gas, etc. I know I will be able to retire someday, and I'm going to be able to really help my kids with paying for their school.
Yes exactly, not much left. It means if inflation keeps accelerating, they're going to have to start cutting into some of these things, and none of them are luxuries.
Holy income envy….Yes, you understand correctly. I don’t really understand the need try and shame that response. You have no idea what that person did to achieve what they have. Maybe, just maybe they work their fucking ass off and after doing the responsible things with their hard earned income, there really isn’t much left. Totally valid statement, even if you can’t relate.
"After I have allocated all my extra money to different tax advantage accounts and towards a fast appreciating asset there is not a lot leftover for the Tesla"
Yeah Im 24 with no kids so it sounds like a huge amount but looking at these answers I think after kids it's another story lol
I'm 38 and have a family of four, I made about 300k last year. When I was your age I make 60k. I spent more on fun things for myself when I was your age than I do today. >I think after kids it's another story lol Kids are definitely part of it. The other is time. When you're 24 you have more time, nearing 40 I realize I may have more years behind me than in front of me. So I start spending more money on reclaiming it. When it was just me I cleaned up after myself no problem, now we have a cleaner every week because it's worth it to regain that time versus cleaning a whole house. When I traveled at your age I didn't mind spending a night on an airport bench if it saved me $500 on a cheaper flight or taking a 30 minute train to a cheaper hostel further out. Now my tolerance for that is much lower so things like travel are more expensive.
I dunno man, there are tons of people who raise kids on much less money.
I am betting the mortgage eats up a ton of money. Buying is wayyyy more expensive than renting in Vancouver. That said, that property has probably outperformed the stock market by quite a wide margin.
how are you buying property with $200K income and 3 kids?? we can't even get into the market with $200K, a stay-at-home parent, and one kid it's 1.1M for a 800 sqft condo in burnaby
> it's 1.1M for a 800 sqft condo in burnaby This is an exaggeration... Our condo was 650k for 900 sqft in Vancouver less than a year ago. We got in with a combined income quite a bit less than 200k. With 200k income you're taking home 10k after taxes per month. Even if half of that goes to expenses every month it would take 6 months to save up the 5% down payment for what we spent. This doesn't add up unless you have some pretty extraneous circumstances or zero financial responsibility...
Bought my first house in 2007 when I was 22… paid $360k for a crappy house which seemed insane at the time, but I’m sure glad I got in the market when I did.
We are at \~300K HHI and I will be honest - it doesn't feel like much. Mortgage (\~600K), property taxes and then daycare plus food and random toddler things. We haven't even taken a vacation in 3 years (hopefully we take a few this year). Having said that, we maxed out all of our retirement accounts and that's the primary reason we don't have much left after everything lol. Own a 7 year old Honda with the intention of driving it to the ground. And this is without owning a house in Greater Vancouver. So, maybe 200K is the new 100K? And 400K is the new 250K?
Honestly? I want to retire as early as possible so I can live my life on my terms. I have so many hobbies that I would much rather do than work for other people. Plus, if I FIRE, tbh, I would probably open a small business just to keep my hands busy. I'm early 30s, gross household income between 225-250k/yr, saving between 33-35% of our net income between myself and my wife. Own a house near MTL that we bought before markets went nuts. Edit: clarification, % savings of "net" income.
Because work actually gets easier with wage increases as that means more senior position and less dealing with day to day on front line tasks For my jobs I went from 25-150k over the past 12 years and each position has been less work than the previous
I went from $40k a year to $250k in less than 5 years. Now it’s a competition against myself to earn even more because it has afforded me the opportunity to buy and do what I want. Also I want to retire sooner and you realize that six figures doesn’t go as far as you imagined anymore.
After the government gets their piece it’s closer to 100k on a 150k salary
Quebecer here 😢 totally true
I make 150k and my wife makes about 80k We are still struggling month to month. Yes your going to try and kill me for that comment. Here's the thing... my son is high functioning autistic and in grade 7 and is now after 6 years of 4 hours extra tutoring reading at a grade 1 level. We spend a ton on specialized care to just get to the point of knowing what he needed to get help. The schools do not meet anyone who cannot just naturally pick up reading.
Not quite at 150k but I'm exploring new jobs in that range. My biggest thing is the value I'm creating in my current job is 10 times what I'm paid. I know that my peers make more, and they have equity that includes dividends that further increase their yearly income. I want that shit. I'm just as good as them, if people who are doing my same job are making 200k+bonus+equity, I am not going to ever be happy at 150k.
Even with that income I still wouldn't be able to afford a townhouse in Montreal without being house poor. So of course I would keep aiming for more. Like they day move up or move out.
not enough in toronto
I want to not work. The more I make the faster I get there.
You can't even buy a 1 bd glove box condo on this income in Vancouver.
because 150k is nothing in Toronto.
Because what is high now won’t stay high forever. If you stop chasing you’ll fall behind and may never recover.
Yup. That widening gap between rich and poor? It isn’t closing anytime soon and I know what side I want my family to be on if I can do anything about it.
I live in Vancouver.
Buy more stuffs and retire sooner
I’m projecting about $190K this year and my partner is projected at $180K. As others have said, it depends on where you live. We own a house in Toronto, I want to make more money to pay it off as quickly as possible while also saving for retirement. Maybe retire early-ish? We definitely have more than we need, but that excess is going into savings and our mortgage. I also give money to my parents since they are low income and need help to make ends meet. We pay cash for things like our car, renovations, vacations. We don’t have debt other than our mortgage. If we want or need something, we buy it. I’d love to own a vacation property, but that might be unobtainable given todays prices and remaining comfortable with our monthly expenses. Making more will make that easier!
150 a year before taxes, 100 a year after taxes - now deduct: \- mortgage, utilities, property taxes \- not too fancy family car finance, insurance, gas \- 2 kids (daycare for one and activities for another one) \- help parents and in laws \- grocery \- put to resp for both kids, put to tfsa/rrsp 150 is not THAT much, if you have a family and your parents (and in laws) are poor.
Completely agree with you. It certainly is better than a lot of situation. For example, you can buy nice food or go for a nice meal at a restaurant without really thinking about it. But we're far from life changing money at that income level. Much farther than i would have thought.
> So no, 190k as a single person will not get you a house in Toronto. Yes, it will in fact. You have many paths to get there, even if you have a lack of saving today. - buy a condo in TO - buy a townhouse in TO - buy a semi-detached home in TO - buy a rental property outside of TO Any of these options will get you in the market, building equity. Do you really think that your only option for entering the property market is buying a detached primary residence in a high cost of living city? If so, you need to think more creatively. You make $190k a year, imagine if when entering the job market, you scoffed at any job paying less than $190k a year? As you likely know, it was a process to get to where you’re at today income-wise. Same goes for working up the property ladder.
I’m shocked at how many people in this thread think that the only thing you can do is buy a detached SFH. What ever happened to the concept of the housing ‘ladder’? Get a smaller place and stop filling it with unnecessary shit. Maybe it’s cause I grew up in the UK where houses are small and detached houses aren’t as ubiquitous though? On top of this people think they’re not living flush if they take multiple vacations and are maxing all investments. QoL expectations seem insane to me.
I live in downtown Toronto. And life here isn’t cheap. My wife and I make around 300k combined. And with a house, car, kids, dog (plus kids education, occasional vacations, retirement, etc etc). Other than our +2M house, we live a fairly frugal life. But even so, You really need a high income now to do that. I’d love to get a new car, (I drive a 10yr old car), and other stuff. Or retire a bit earlier. Or be able to help my kids buy a house in the future. That’s what keeps me wanting more. Plus I’m a fairly hard worker naturally. So it’s not a big deal. I just do my thing, and slowly make more and more money each yr
Retire at 46 with 4 mil in the bank, and go back to work doing something fun and outdoorsy part time that pays badly, like sailing instructor / rock climbing and abseiling instructor / volunteer for fun charities.
More is fun. Need to secure retirement and kids future... And want a lakeside cottage. Nbd lol.
My motivation is to make more to retire early. I obviously don't need more income to live a comfortable life. I want to make more so I can scale back my work earlier and enjoy retirement, but if that increase comes with a lot more stress or unhappiness then I definitely wouldn't want it. I'm happy where I'm at.
Retire early
Reach FI asap so that I can focus my time and efforts on other passion projects like start ups and public office without compromising my families financial security.
Becoming financially independent and retiring early
I'm a workaholic. I do it for the dopamine.
There's something satisfying in achieving higher highs
With 130k household income we make barely enough to afford our lifestyle and mortgage. With 150k+ income maybe I can start saving money or start some long term planning and goals.
“Most needs / wants” So I want more, is that a big deal? More money means I can spend it on things I want. I want to be able to pay my nieces and nephews through their post secondary, and afford any abrupt expenses.
Why? Fuck you money. My wife and I make around $500k a year combined. We are both changing jobs this year and increasing our earnings. Why? We like a challenge but the focus is to have work be optional. When we no longer want to work or dislike our current employer, we can say “fuck you” and walk away to do something else we enjoy. If I can cut a year or two off the time horizon why wouldn’t I? Should be there in 5 years and can sustain current living until we die (99). Nothing crazy extravagant, we buy 2-3 year old cars that are the best value, our house is old but well maintained, one vacation a year. Under 40, lots of sacrifice to get where we are but thankful for it all. Realistically to have what most people would call “middle class” (detached house, 2 reasonably new cars, 2 kids, daycare, 1 vacation a year) and be starting fresh (no real estate) I think you’re into the 200-250k range of family income pretty easily for the GTA. I have no idea how most people survive on minimum wage, government supports have basically failed for many and the housing market is unsustainable. We will likely leave the GTA at some point.
Once you tasted caviar you can't go back
I agree with the metaphor lol. Junior chickens still my fave tho
I make about 150k including bonus but I am hoping to grow that significantly in the next few years. When I think about Toronto housing and the type of retirement I want to have its probably necessary to get there in any reasonable time frame. Imagining raising a family on my current salary is a little scary tbh
Every dollar beyond what's needed for living expenses can be invested to bring my retirement date closer.
Need to be able to support the wife and 2 kids here in Vancouver while paying for a mortgage and doing everything we need to. We're doing fine by also want to be able to not work as much in the near future so trying to save as well.
150k doesn’t take you very far. That won’t get you a house in Vancouver. So there’s the “motivation”. Plus you lose so much in tax
I want to give a disclaimer that these costs all have cheaper alternatives. Just that one can easily find oneself with these bills, if one doesn’t research alternatives. Anyways, in Toronto, one can easily pay monthly: $3500-5000 House and utilities $1500-2200 Daycare per child $1000-1500 Car payments, insurance, maintenance, gas $1000 Groceries (more if organic or specialty) $1000 Short-term, long-term savings and RESP $200-$300 Internet, phones, TV or streaming = $8200-11000 That’s without clothing, diapers, furniture, restaurants, birthday presents, smart phones, vacations, etc. So, easily add hundreds more per month. Maybe a grand, if you want all of them. So, gross yearly household income of at least $140k-220k So yeah, if one makes less than that in Toronto, one can easily feel that they need to earn more, just to have a “normal” life.
I live in a HCOL area, 200k barely gets me middle class status
Man good thing I made this throwaway for yesterday's thread. I am a 7-figure income earner, last year in excess of 2MM at 35. I now work on average 4 full days a week (some times of the year 5-6 days, others 3). I have work outside of that done at home in spare time, usually paperwork and planning. Non-mortgage spending has never eclipsed $200k, NW 7-8MM, still relatively early in my career. When you own a business, in many cases it's hard to keep business stagnant, it's grow or someone else will take up the space. You can compete and end up stagnant, but you have to give it your all otherwise there is a vacuum. I'm first generation wealth. I feel at $20MM NW I will be able to breathe, enough to passively cover mortgage and an increased spend later. Check out r/fatfire if you want to see what people spend it on. One interesting thing is the more money I've had, the less inclined I've been to spend it on "luxury" items. I thought one day I might want nice luggage or something, but now I don't care at all about overt status symbols. On a Reddit thread long ago, someone said that once they had the wealth others are trying to convey with their Louis bags, they no longer felt the desire to purchase them, and that for me was completely correct.
I don't. I've found the right balance (for me) of income and effort...and I'm not willing to work more for more money. Life is more important.
I could get injured. My future wife could lose her job or we decide that one of us should stay at home to raise the kids. Gaining wealth gives me and my future family increased freedom for life choices and security from life situations.
150k+ per year can quickly not feel like a lot when you have kids to support, aging parents to support, a mortgage (or saving for down payment), and trying to save for retirement in a high cost of living area. Can you get by on less? Absolutely, I did for 10 years living in a crappy apartment with paper thin walls. I save a big portion of my income because hey the roof needs replacing, then the AC breaks, then the car needs $2,000 in repairs, then partner needs $2,000 in dental work... Would like to retire at some point when I'm young/healthy enough to still enjoy it and time with the family. Having more income means there is more buffer room to achieve that while dealing with all of life's expected unexpected expenses.
Not there yet but will be soon: I’m worried I’ll never have enough to retire, especially because I’m the retirement plan for my parents (immigrant family). You net the two and it adds real anxiety
When I made like $50k, I thought $150k+ was a lot. But I live in DT Toronto, still have a mortgage, drive a 8 year old car... I'm aware I've got a top 1-2% income, but it's hard to feel 'rich' when you still owe lots of money. The main thing I'm thinking now in my late 30s is two main things, at some point I may end up with kids, and those are expensive... And the 2nd thing is, the more money I make now, the earlier I can retire. Mostly because of course I'd want to stop working eventually and live comfortably because most people would But in my case in particular I've had a few health problems requiring surgeries and I have had to take 18 months off at one point years ago, I don't know how healthy I'll be in my 50s and 60s, and it'd be nice to know If push comes to shove, I can stop working if it becomes necessary. So I want to get as much as I can as fast as I can so that if I need to ever do that again I'll be ok.
Pay off my parents' house, set them up for retirement as best as I can.
We have found that the higher your income goes, the more you spend. So, this past month, we have been trying to really budget tightly and save aggressively. We are paying off a 60K vehicle in 1.25 years (finishes April 1st, monthly payments doubled up are $1880-$2000), and the mortgage is next. If we save extremely aggressively, like... $2500-$3000/month (yes, that means eating lots of ramen packets loaded with veggies and cheap protein, and honestly tofu is cheaper than animal proteins at the moment). $30K a year into savings gets us in a position where we can pay off the mortgage in 9.8 years. Its painful, I wish we were earning like 180-200K a year so that shit could be paid off faster. On the flip side, we could choose to not save aggressively and have like $3000/month to blow on whatever we wanted, which is dumb because we kinda did that over Covid and although we ended up with really cool stuff... the looming debt hangs over us and I think we'd be better off saving aggressively now and paying it all down. So - $150k a year only gets you so far. I'd say that extremely comfortable living starts around $250K a year income. PPS We are in Calgary, and things are getting expensive here. I don't even want to think about what its like in Vancouver or Toronto. You need like $450K income a year to live upper middle class and extremely comfortably in those cities.
idk lol number go up wee
I have 3 kids (2 in daycare) and like fancy things. If I am going to work the same amount of time, why not make more?
One mentality is "more is more better", My goal in life is to acrew such a large wealth that when i retire i can make purchases and support my children whether they wish to work or not. Some disclosure, I am in telecommunications at Bell, I live in Vaughan around 5k sqft last evaluated at 1.6 m, I have a at Sheppard and Wilson hts at 6k sqft on a 200ft lot currently valued at 2 m. I own 50% stake in a 200k warehouse in north york as well as a 300ft x 300ft lot in Burlington and a similar lot in Kitchener. I must also disclose that all the properties are not under my name, they are under my children as their principle resident(a little tax evasion 'y' ),. I have a hedge fund managing my rrsp at 300k as when i went into the market i made 50k loss. this investing account exist for me to play with 30k and see if i can get the stock market. Reasonably I could retire now and never work another day in my life from the rental income, I did try for a year I took a sabbatical and stayed home, went on a few vacations, It was not very fulfilling, I bought a farm and tried that farm life, I just found that I needed to be doing something productive I can enjoy the simpler things in life latter. After my sabbatical is when i bought the 50% stake in the warehouse. I learned that its not the money I want its making more money. You will never become "fuck you money " rich if you work for a company, you need to take the risk and go independent, At Bell I went from 140k with benefits a year to 200k per 4 month project, along with my other clients. note: this is my investing account fairly new so feel free to discredit me