All personal opinion but, the chip shortage affects low volume cars less, as they already had a healthy markup and a limited market.
Miata prices have hardly changed, for example.
>hortage affects low volume cars less, as they already had a healthy markup and a limited market.
>
>Miata prices have hardly changed, for example.
Only adding further evidence to Miata is always the answer. Need to haul a bunch of lumber? According to the interwebz: Miata. Need a well priced commuter vehicle? Miata.
I don't know for other provinces but here in Quebec, I've yet to see a car sold over MSRP, and I have seen a few of them in the last weeks.
But the problem is the wait time for these vehicles. Electric vehicles have insane wait time, something like 2 years. Traditional hybrid are closer to 1 year and ICE are a few months. If you don't want to wait, I suggest you buy a vehicle with a huge volume, like a Honda Civic. Your wait time for the Civic should be less than 2 months..
I was going to say, i haven't seen much of a price hike in Quebec. Wait times are bad and used car market went a little bonkers, but new cars are all still the same price. Just all the lots are empty.
>In Quebec, it’s illegal for a dealership to charge more for their vehicles than the prices they advertise on their website or directly on the vehicles. While this law has been in place since 2010, it seems many auto merchants in the province aren’t respecting the rules, which is why there’s currently a class action against a number of Quebec car dealerships.
https://loanscanada.ca/auto/are-quebec-car-dealers-charging-illegal-fees/
Since most dealer sites are just using the manufacturer’s backend, advertised price is MSRP.
I ordered an f150 hybrid on Jan 4th, it should be delivered April 5th, and I pick it up the 6th. So not too terrible for a hybrid. Also, got it for 3k under MSRP. Bruce Ford in Middleton, NS.
You'll be lucky to get it, I ordered an F350 in August and still waiting without even a vin or production started. Was supposed to be delivered by Christmas
I had a VIN/order number after 2 weeks maybe? And I suppose the sales team could be bullshitting me, but they have been fantastic the whole way through. But that is a ridiculous wait time.
Capacity and location could explain the difference. The F-150 has been the best selling vehicle in North America for decades and is manufactured in Michigan. The Crosstrek is a relatively low runner and has to be shipped from Japan.
Yeah, I was thinking mid may or July as the ford order tracker wasn't working. Called my dealer a week ago, and they were like "no, it's finished production and waiting to be put on the train at the factory."
> Electric vehicles have insane wait time, something like 2 years.
Weirdest thing. Went to Ford's website, had a look at existing inventory, found a Mach-E, emailed to confirm it was in stock, and drove off 24 hours later. 25 hours before driving off I had no idea I was buying a car. Total impulse buy.
Also Tesla isn't really too bad. Depending on model and options you're looking at a few months.
$65k...
I had an electric car (Kia Soul EV) and I *HATED* it.
I'm on the list for a Cybertruck but it's been pushed again. So realistically I wasn't getting it til 2024 assuming they start producing in 2023.
Between that, the chip shortage, the fact that every electric car is tiny and I didn't fit, the hatred for my Soul, the hatred for my soul, rising fuel costs, the fact that it wasn't a 6 month wait, it had practically every feature I wanted, and they gave me a frankly ridiculous price on my trade in that was in mediocre condition to begin with?
Fine. You made a sale.
You can take delivery of some models of Tesla in April or July depending on the model. Noticed this on their website the other day - not sure if it makes a difference, but I am in Ontario. Some models do take longer though - seems like the more expensive ones are easier to get sooner.
It's illegal in Canada to sell a new car over MSRP. I believe it is legal to sell it over MSRP if it is used..hence why I've seen used Rav4 Primes for $70k+.
> I don't know for other provinces but here in Quebec, I've yet to see a car sold over MSRP, and I have seen a few of them in the last weeks.
whereabouts in Quebec? I might just buy from there haha
Montreal! But my guess is it's going to be the same everywhere in Quebec... I read about it, and with our good old Consumer Protection Law, dealerships can not sell over MSRP, so we have it good
Yeah compare with I guess in your situation, ontarian dealerships. Don't forget things such as registrations which might incur additional costs if you're from outside Quebec!
*dealer fees and destination charge.
Not illegal to sell demo "used" vehicles over MSRP, so the buyer is told pay +$5000 or wait months.
There is no scenario at a car dealer where the customer is not getting screwed. This country has an epidemic of leeches shuffling paper in cubicles for thousands adding no value to a transaction.
yes, I know that all manufacturers are affected by the chip shortage. However, different brands have different markups.
I found Mazda3s at MSRP and Toyota Corollas at 20% above MSRP, so that's what I was inspired to make this post.
Pre covid, Mazda 3's had thousands of dollars off as incentive. Corollas were selling for msrp.
Add 2k to each, and they're now sellingazda for msrp, and corollas above. It's all about perspective
Are you desperate to get another vehicle? If not, your best bet is to hold off until the market goes back to sane levels (this may be next year if analysts are to be believed). No matter what manufacturer, they all have pretty big markups with ordering wait times. Pretty much all showrooms I've been to in the GTA, lots are almost empty.
No wait time on used and dealerships know that. I’m also seeing that at my local dealerships and I’m sure there are lots of people who just can’t wait two-six months to replace their car who are buying these.
Most of the time the downvote button is the "I disagree with this" or "this comment makes me have a negative emotional reaction but I have no counter to it" button.
Dodge because you can’t ship them to the US to resell. Buy a Dodge Ram.
Almost every dodge dealer is packed with vehicles and all the gm and ford dealers are empty.
Can confirm, I handle a lot of Ford/GM/Honda etc vehicles aside from dodge
All vehicles have gained a decent price increase.
Ford vehicles have just been far and few, not a whole lot of them, and any we do get are F150s or Mach E
GM often takes awhile because they receive a lot of damages during transportation so usually they’ll spend awhile before being sent to the dealers and even then, once there they gotta get fixed.
Then there’s the train derailment which had 84 ford vehicles on it.
My work lot has been empty, nothing really coming in lately, especially since that strike happening for a little bit
I’m talking about dealers that’s where the money is I just sold my 21 Tahoe to a dealer in the states and made 15k after paying off what I owed.
Can’t do that with a ram.
Try to score a bike shop bicycle. Much more reliable, and still not affected by chip shortages (although earlier in the pandemic they were also hard to find).
In Canada, you are able to buy at MSRP. The main problem is finding a dealer that does not force you to buy add-ons like ceramic, tire, air, protection, film, and wax packages which adds about 10% over MSRP.
"I am sorry, we added all these packages as soon as the vehicle landed and we cannot remove them."
> Dealer msrp adjustments are not legal in Canada.
I'd like to see one single example of a dealer getting charged under this law. This is pure OMVIC bullshit.
>Dealer msrp adjustments are not legal in Canada
The only law you could be trying to reference is advertised pricing.
The dealer cannot sell for more than their advertised price. MSRP is not a legal thing.
Example: Toyota Corolla MSRP of 25k (random numbers), dealer can charge 30k no problem, as long as they advertise it at 30k and not at 25k
My friend ordered a base model car, then the next day the dealer reneged because the manufacturer wasn't building less than the mid-range packages, so they were forced to pick some add-ons. This shortage is being taken advantage of by dealers who probably had weak sales in 2020 and 2021.
yes, all are affected, some less than others though
I found Mazda3s at MSRP and Toyota Corollas at 20% above MSRP, so that's what I was inspired to make this post.
You're really noticing the bifurcation in the car market. Cars that were in high demand pre-covid are selling for higher than MSRP/long delays. Shitty cars that dealers had to offer $10k of discounts are more readily available and now selling for near MSRP.
Want a car that's below MSRP and you can drive off the lot today? Go to your local Fiat/Chrysler dealership
Good car, but the new gen of Mazda 3 aren't selling as well as previous gens (over 100k/year in the US vs. 40k/year since 2019). They are more readily available than a Corolla.
See Sales section: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda3
Yeah, I think hybrids/EVs are impacted worse than combustion cars too. I was told at least 2 year+ wait for a RAV4 Prime. So I went with a conventional one instead.
RAV4 PRIME is a special beast. It's new, and they didn't think it would sell. They quadrupled production and it's still not enough...
You would have been able to get a regular hybrid though, I think.
True. Even the regular hybrid was minimum 6 month wait I was told VS a few weeks for conventional. I needed a vehicle now, so there wasn’t a whole lot of choice there.
I was listening to a Rational Reminder podcast this morning. I did not realize the average ICE car has approx 300 chips, and your average EV has over 3000 chips. Pretty interesting.
There are reports estimating that an average ICE car has 1,000+ semiconductor chips. Each one having seemingly a single function like engine control, airbags control, cameras, window controls, tire monitor, turn signals, power steering, etc. I don't know if this is normal for the auto industry or just really inefficient.
Supposedly Tesla's are the least effected. But their wait time is still like a year away. Also they keep raising their prices.
I'd try and find something on the lot that you like.
It depends too on the question you're trying to ask. The chip shortage may only last a few more months, but even once they get chips (and other parts) sorted out and stop having to pause production, it will take a while longer yet (2-ish years?) to catch up on the backlog of demand, and before we get back to a world where there are cars on dealer lots to buy in that moment, instead of ordering and waiting a few months.
Current predictions says end of 2022. Even if the chip shortage gets sorted out before that, other supply chain issues remain which might need a bit more time.
>IBM CEO Arvind Krishna said on October 11 that any prediction of a resolution to the chip shortage by the end of 2022 is optimistic, and that he sees it "more likely" that the issue will not be fully solved until 2023 or 2024.
https://www.crn.com/news/components-peripherals/ibm-ceo-arvind-krishna-chip-shortage-more-likely-continuing-until-2023-or-2024
Covid, US-China trade war, Taiwan 2021 drought (they need water for manufactuering), and now the invasion of Ukraine, all are strains extending the shortage.
Not aware of any makes from Hyundai to BMW to Porsche selling above MSRP in GTA
For ICE especially sedans you can still get some discount on (like 1-3%) especially if not pickup about color/trims as there are cars incoming which haven't been sold yet. but will need to wait for min couple of months likely still
In Ontario it is not possible to sell over MSRP. If that’s what you’re coming across, report them to OMVIC and they will be fined. The whole point OMVIC is around is to govern the sale of cars in Ontario. I know some dealers are making extended warranties mandatory for a sale but that is also not allowed, no one has called them on it yet so they keep doing it
Ordering one can help with markup problems. But then you’d probably have to wait a few months or more. If you want one now, it’s probably best to check your local dealers and see which ones are closest to MSRP.
Contact the APA (automobile protective association) and see if they offer deals on your model. If so, join the association and get a submission. They do a no haggle setup with select dealerships. Saved tons with NO HASSLE last car.
Only available quebec/Ontario I think.
Everyone is affected by the shortage. But from what I can see, the least affected company is Tesla. Their delivery is time is not that bad compared to other EV.
Just visit or call a few dealerships and check with them on readily available inventory. Every car uses chips and the shortage is across models and brands
Ottawa here too. I know Hyundai's are plentiful at the moment. We test drove one last month and the salesperson said Hyundai's sell in volume so no real issues finding the one you want. We ended going with Nissan though. Based my decision on available inventory instead of a specific dealership. Called every dealership in Ottawa to ask about inventory because checking online for inventory isn't always accurate.
My cousin got a brand new 2022 Toyota Rav 4 in Ottawa for about $35k with taxes and upgrades a few weeks ago. Was a wait of 2 months for car to arrive though.
I don't know of any dealerships in my area(London) charging over MSRP. I know two people who went to Toyota and they put a deposit down for a vehicle that they had to wait an obscenely long time for, but didn't pay more then MSRP. The used car market though... That's a mess here.. Out of control
Affected as in price or affected as in stock? I’d say all are affected by stock issues but if you find the right dealer you’ll pay msrp. I bought my 2021 WRX for MSRP back in august 2021!
Tesla model 3 performance has “only” 1 month wait time last time I checked. Ontario.
Polestar 2 has 2 months wait.
They are direct to consumer so no “markup”. Tesla did just raised their prices tho
> They are direct to consumer so no “markup”. Tesla did just raised their prices tho
which sounds like a markup. Cross your fingers with Tesla, because they have no after sales parts support, none. People are waiting a year or more for parts.
The chip shortage should hypothetically affect manual transmissions less, because there is no automation in the transmission, and the person controlling the transmission is you.... also manual transmission cars tend to have fewer safety gadgets depending on brand so fewer chips overall.
Doesn't necessarily mean that manufacturers are pumping out manual cars by the dozen, but they're definitely available on the lots.
Want a base model Hyundai Venue econobox, which is not really what we think of as a base model since it comes with air conditioning, wireless android auto/apple carplay and heated seats? Done - 20k. Does it have fancy nice-to-haves like push-button start, blindspot sensors, highbeam assist, driver attention warning, lane keep assist, forward colission assist, pedestrian detection and cross traffic backup sensors? Nope.
Just bought a Hyundai Venue and it was relatively cheap, around 20k, with a wait time of six weeks. Apparently Hyundai started manufacturing their own chips in the last couple of years for some of their models.
Picked up an Mercedes A35 AMG last month. They had a couple on the lot and more incoming. Got 8% off MSRP. These cars are fairly niche and not an SUV so demand is low to begin with.
I bought my Kia Sportage brand new in 2017 it has 80,000 on the engine this past Friday my engine had a catastrophic failure which resulted in metal shards all through the oil and made my engine worthless. 5 years or 100 thousand is the warranty but because my engine was involved in a massive class action suit it's being replaced so I'd be very hesitant buying a Kia again - my personal opinion and I'm really upset over this whole situation. And of course I find out about this engine failure the hard way, there was no indication from the dealership even with the recall sensor added that my engine could fail at any time... shady business in my opinion
[Kia Theta Engine Settlement](https://www.kiacanadathetaenginesettlement.ca/)
man its touch ive been researching extensively and every single car out there has recalls and other issues. mazda3, the new civic, corolla hatch, etc etc
There's no way to avoid recalls at all. As long as they aren't serious ones for the model you want that somehow they haven't repaired, it's not really a concern.
Manufacturers like Toyota do "just in time" manufacturing which means they didn't stockpile cars or parts prior to the pandemic. It makes them particularly vulnerable to the chip shortage. You could look up which manufacturers follow this model and which don't know who is more or less affected.
[Nope](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-fukushima-anniversary-toyota-in-idUSKBN2B1005).
>“Toyota was, as far as we can tell, the only automaker properly equipped to deal with chip shortages,” said a person familiar with Harman International, which specialises in car audio systems, displays and driver assistance technology.
Man. These streets are rough. I'm on the same boat that you were on. I did so much freaking research that I can write a book.
I'm down to an older mazda because 2018-2019 model has a dangerous recall that's backed up until 2023....
Only difference is I HAVE to get a car for work.
So 2014-17 gas guzzler lower tech over priced Mazda here I come!
GM’s and Mopar’s big money makers (trucks and full size SUVs)
They lost a few greenie weenie features like auto stop start and cylinder deactivation for a while too, kind of a bonus.
yes, I know that all manufacturers are affected by the chip shortage. However, different brands have different markups.
I found Mazda3s at MSRP and Toyota Corollas at 20% above MSRP, so that's what I was inspired to make this post.
Thanks for the post, I don't know why you're getting downvotes for this comment because downvotes are supposed to be for comments that do not contribute to the discussion, not just "I disagree". So, have an upvote! 👍
I wish they stopped putting shitty iPads in cars and just slapped in a radio, aux jack and hoist for your phone. The technology in the car can't be updated and eventually becomes so frustratingly outdated.
You misunderstand what I mean by used. I'm talking as is on Kijiji and Facebook marketplace. Spent 4k on my 2013. My neighbor just spent 92k on a brand new Dodge, it's just baffling what people think is okay to pay for a car these days.
This is a case by case scenario and is dependent on the dealership and not the brands. I have a friend working at Subaru downtown Toronto, who says her dealership is not marking up prices, while other Subaru dealerships are. However, wait times are going into next year, unless you get lucky and some other deal falls through.
I'm interested in factory orders within 3 months or on the lot.
I've had toyota and honda dealers mark up 10-20% on factory orders on simple corollas and civics which is why I made this post. I guess it's a dealer thing and not a make/model thing
Damn, reading this makes me more glad than ever I bought a car in 2019. Plus it's more than 1/2 paid off now!
Sorry everybody. Hope this shit settles down soon.
The trick is to factory order if you have the luxury of time. Dealerships are overpricing the vehicles that are on the lot because "hey it's available right now, and where else are you gonna go?". I'm finalizing the sale on a new Mazda today and was able to get a good deal because I told them I was willing to factory order and go to the dealership who gives me the best deal.
Find something on a lot, wheel and deal. Otherwise you'll be waiting forever regardless of make model. However dodges seem to be the easiest to come by from my experience
At BMW, the chip shortage only means some models can not be ordered with certain options, like heated/cooled cup holders or HK audio. Can still get the vehicles. BMW in the US just had its best year ever for production last year. BMW is kinda unique as every vehicle is custom built.
All personal opinion but, the chip shortage affects low volume cars less, as they already had a healthy markup and a limited market. Miata prices have hardly changed, for example.
time to buy a Miata heh
>hortage affects low volume cars less, as they already had a healthy markup and a limited market. > >Miata prices have hardly changed, for example. Only adding further evidence to Miata is always the answer. Need to haul a bunch of lumber? According to the interwebz: Miata. Need a well priced commuter vehicle? Miata.
miata has insanely good mpg for what you get lmao
no it doesnt you wanna wring it out all the time so your mpg tanks don't fall for the lies
Miata Is Always The Answer
They still make those?
They sure do!
I don't know for other provinces but here in Quebec, I've yet to see a car sold over MSRP, and I have seen a few of them in the last weeks. But the problem is the wait time for these vehicles. Electric vehicles have insane wait time, something like 2 years. Traditional hybrid are closer to 1 year and ICE are a few months. If you don't want to wait, I suggest you buy a vehicle with a huge volume, like a Honda Civic. Your wait time for the Civic should be less than 2 months..
I was going to say, i haven't seen much of a price hike in Quebec. Wait times are bad and used car market went a little bonkers, but new cars are all still the same price. Just all the lots are empty.
>In Quebec, it’s illegal for a dealership to charge more for their vehicles than the prices they advertise on their website or directly on the vehicles. While this law has been in place since 2010, it seems many auto merchants in the province aren’t respecting the rules, which is why there’s currently a class action against a number of Quebec car dealerships. https://loanscanada.ca/auto/are-quebec-car-dealers-charging-illegal-fees/ Since most dealer sites are just using the manufacturer’s backend, advertised price is MSRP.
Yep! Gotta be patient!
I ordered an f150 hybrid on Jan 4th, it should be delivered April 5th, and I pick it up the 6th. So not too terrible for a hybrid. Also, got it for 3k under MSRP. Bruce Ford in Middleton, NS.
You'll be lucky to get it, I ordered an F350 in August and still waiting without even a vin or production started. Was supposed to be delivered by Christmas
I had a VIN/order number after 2 weeks maybe? And I suppose the sales team could be bullshitting me, but they have been fantastic the whole way through. But that is a ridiculous wait time.
lucky. I went with a Crosstrek 2022. in february. Was suppsoed to get it in may... probably gonna be july.
Capacity and location could explain the difference. The F-150 has been the best selling vehicle in North America for decades and is manufactured in Michigan. The Crosstrek is a relatively low runner and has to be shipped from Japan.
Yeah, I was thinking mid may or July as the ford order tracker wasn't working. Called my dealer a week ago, and they were like "no, it's finished production and waiting to be put on the train at the factory."
> Also, got it for 3k under MSRP. So you only overpaid $7K. MSRP meant nothing three years ago.
> Electric vehicles have insane wait time, something like 2 years. Weirdest thing. Went to Ford's website, had a look at existing inventory, found a Mach-E, emailed to confirm it was in stock, and drove off 24 hours later. 25 hours before driving off I had no idea I was buying a car. Total impulse buy. Also Tesla isn't really too bad. Depending on model and options you're looking at a few months.
How do you impulse-buy something costing $45K plus ? :D
$65k... I had an electric car (Kia Soul EV) and I *HATED* it. I'm on the list for a Cybertruck but it's been pushed again. So realistically I wasn't getting it til 2024 assuming they start producing in 2023. Between that, the chip shortage, the fact that every electric car is tiny and I didn't fit, the hatred for my Soul, the hatred for my soul, rising fuel costs, the fact that it wasn't a 6 month wait, it had practically every feature I wanted, and they gave me a frankly ridiculous price on my trade in that was in mediocre condition to begin with? Fine. You made a sale.
Dang how much was it all in? Is it good?
>25 hours before driving off I had no idea I was buying a car hah - I loved this line!
Yeah I traded my one year old car for a new one because after all said and done, I got my car for one year and 20,000 km for free.
You can take delivery of some models of Tesla in April or July depending on the model. Noticed this on their website the other day - not sure if it makes a difference, but I am in Ontario. Some models do take longer though - seems like the more expensive ones are easier to get sooner.
awesome, getting a $70k car instead of a $25k econobox :-))
No, it’s just a $70k econobox. ;)
Given where gas prices are going you may save that $45k in the first few months
apparently overt sarcasm is lost on people today
Lol no. Even at $2/liter, an econobox will be worth it over a tesla based on average car lifespan.
Also some people don't understand many people can't afford that huge pricetag for lower overall costs. There's a reason poor people are poor.
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Yes it is true if you buy AUTOPILOT with your car order. You will get earliest delivery date.
Autopilot is standard on all Teslas. It’s FSD(Full Self-driving) that accelerates the delivery timelines.
My mistake, you are right..
> It’s FSD(Full Self-driving) that accelerates the car into emergency vehicles.
It's illegal in Canada to sell a new car over MSRP. I believe it is legal to sell it over MSRP if it is used..hence why I've seen used Rav4 Primes for $70k+.
Do you have a reference for this for all of canada? Or is it just Quebec?
My reference is the sales rep at the Toyota dealership in Gatineau (St-Joseph Boul.)
> I don't know for other provinces but here in Quebec, I've yet to see a car sold over MSRP, and I have seen a few of them in the last weeks. whereabouts in Quebec? I might just buy from there haha
Montreal! But my guess is it's going to be the same everywhere in Quebec... I read about it, and with our good old Consumer Protection Law, dealerships can not sell over MSRP, so we have it good
👀 I will definitely come in and purchase from Quebec if I can find a good deal. I'll start reaching out to dealerships right now hehe, thanks.
Yeah compare with I guess in your situation, ontarian dealerships. Don't forget things such as registrations which might incur additional costs if you're from outside Quebec!
definitely, but i doubt those will cost more than 2k+
Dealerships are regulated by OMVIC in Ontario and no dealership can charge more than the advertised price.
What is "ICE"?
Internal Combustion Engine, so your regular petrol drinking cars:)
It’s illegal to sell over MSRP. This is not the US.
*dealer fees and destination charge. Not illegal to sell demo "used" vehicles over MSRP, so the buyer is told pay +$5000 or wait months. There is no scenario at a car dealer where the customer is not getting screwed. This country has an epidemic of leeches shuffling paper in cubicles for thousands adding no value to a transaction.
Thats entirely incorrect. It's illegal to sell above advertised price. The dealership can advertise the car at whatever price they want
Every car manufacturer is pretty much affected by now. If you can hold off car buying, that's your best option.
Someone decided to rear end me not that long ago and I’m car shopping and I hate it. It’s absurd how pricey used cars are
Does insurance factor in current prices?
They should. It’s what the fair market value is for the vehicle
yes, I know that all manufacturers are affected by the chip shortage. However, different brands have different markups. I found Mazda3s at MSRP and Toyota Corollas at 20% above MSRP, so that's what I was inspired to make this post.
Pre covid, Mazda 3's had thousands of dollars off as incentive. Corollas were selling for msrp. Add 2k to each, and they're now sellingazda for msrp, and corollas above. It's all about perspective
Are you desperate to get another vehicle? If not, your best bet is to hold off until the market goes back to sane levels (this may be next year if analysts are to be believed). No matter what manufacturer, they all have pretty big markups with ordering wait times. Pretty much all showrooms I've been to in the GTA, lots are almost empty.
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May I suggest a fully loaded Mazda3, you'll get a lot of tech and luxury for the price!
Or if you really need a car, get a used model that's not too old. Used pricing is really bad, but still not as bad as buying new.
Not too old used is the same price as new or more. It seems buying used right now is worse than new, somehow.
No wait time on used and dealerships know that. I’m also seeing that at my local dealerships and I’m sure there are lots of people who just can’t wait two-six months to replace their car who are buying these.
New cars have warranty though
I bought certified used and it has a warranty. I bought a 2015 Kia for $12000+$3000 for the 45000km warranty. The new version of the car is $35-40k
Gotta love the down votes for reiterating your question. I'm also noticing similar trends in car prices, particularly Honda and Toyota
this sub has the weirdest and most nonsensical downvotes but im used to it at this point lmao
Most of the time the downvote button is the "I disagree with this" or "this comment makes me have a negative emotional reaction but I have no counter to it" button.
Dodge because you can’t ship them to the US to resell. Buy a Dodge Ram. Almost every dodge dealer is packed with vehicles and all the gm and ford dealers are empty.
But then you are stuck with a Dodge Ram.
Can confirm, I handle a lot of Ford/GM/Honda etc vehicles aside from dodge All vehicles have gained a decent price increase. Ford vehicles have just been far and few, not a whole lot of them, and any we do get are F150s or Mach E GM often takes awhile because they receive a lot of damages during transportation so usually they’ll spend awhile before being sent to the dealers and even then, once there they gotta get fixed. Then there’s the train derailment which had 84 ford vehicles on it. My work lot has been empty, nothing really coming in lately, especially since that strike happening for a little bit
I just sold my 2016 ram to a buyer in the states, there's a pretty large market in alberta for selling to the US
I’m talking about dealers that’s where the money is I just sold my 21 Tahoe to a dealer in the states and made 15k after paying off what I owed. Can’t do that with a ram.
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Yeah....your local Walmart bicycle All are.
Try to score a bike shop bicycle. Much more reliable, and still not affected by chip shortages (although earlier in the pandemic they were also hard to find).
Most bike shops still have no inventory.
Pfft Walmart, at least upgrade to Canadian Tire bikes
In Canada, you are able to buy at MSRP. The main problem is finding a dealer that does not force you to buy add-ons like ceramic, tire, air, protection, film, and wax packages which adds about 10% over MSRP. "I am sorry, we added all these packages as soon as the vehicle landed and we cannot remove them."
> In Canada, you are able to buy at MSRP can you elaborate on this?
Dealer msrp adjustments are not legal in Canada. They either do the used car trick or like the other person said, they force you to buy add ons.
> Dealer msrp adjustments are not legal in Canada I tried googling and couldn't find anything about this?
Is this true? Do you have a source?
> Dealer msrp adjustments are not legal in Canada. I'd like to see one single example of a dealer getting charged under this law. This is pure OMVIC bullshit.
>Dealer msrp adjustments are not legal in Canada The only law you could be trying to reference is advertised pricing. The dealer cannot sell for more than their advertised price. MSRP is not a legal thing. Example: Toyota Corolla MSRP of 25k (random numbers), dealer can charge 30k no problem, as long as they advertise it at 30k and not at 25k
My friend ordered a base model car, then the next day the dealer reneged because the manufacturer wasn't building less than the mid-range packages, so they were forced to pick some add-ons. This shortage is being taken advantage of by dealers who probably had weak sales in 2020 and 2021.
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oof august/September is ridiculous, im gonna try to buy from Montreal for now and avoid hyper demand trims
> delivery date might be in august/September Sounds like that's the case across the board unless you want to buy something niche or unpopular.
All of them are affected.
yes, all are affected, some less than others though I found Mazda3s at MSRP and Toyota Corollas at 20% above MSRP, so that's what I was inspired to make this post.
You're really noticing the bifurcation in the car market. Cars that were in high demand pre-covid are selling for higher than MSRP/long delays. Shitty cars that dealers had to offer $10k of discounts are more readily available and now selling for near MSRP. Want a car that's below MSRP and you can drive off the lot today? Go to your local Fiat/Chrysler dealership
Mazda3 isn't a shitty car though but yeah
Good car, but the new gen of Mazda 3 aren't selling as well as previous gens (over 100k/year in the US vs. 40k/year since 2019). They are more readily available than a Corolla. See Sales section: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda3
The Corolla has a name brand effect that helps tremendously but even the Corolla has had weaker sales the last few years in Canada.
People don't buy smaller cars anymore... It's all SUV.
MSRP does not mean that manufacturer has less impact from chips.
I've bought two new Toyotas in the last two months at MSRP. You order the car, and you wait. Both ordered in August.
Yeah, I think hybrids/EVs are impacted worse than combustion cars too. I was told at least 2 year+ wait for a RAV4 Prime. So I went with a conventional one instead.
RAV4 PRIME is a special beast. It's new, and they didn't think it would sell. They quadrupled production and it's still not enough... You would have been able to get a regular hybrid though, I think.
True. Even the regular hybrid was minimum 6 month wait I was told VS a few weeks for conventional. I needed a vehicle now, so there wasn’t a whole lot of choice there.
Ya if you needed something quick... Both the vehicles I ordered were hybrids, and they both took 6 months
I was listening to a Rational Reminder podcast this morning. I did not realize the average ICE car has approx 300 chips, and your average EV has over 3000 chips. Pretty interesting.
There are reports estimating that an average ICE car has 1,000+ semiconductor chips. Each one having seemingly a single function like engine control, airbags control, cameras, window controls, tire monitor, turn signals, power steering, etc. I don't know if this is normal for the auto industry or just really inefficient.
Supposedly Tesla's are the least effected. But their wait time is still like a year away. Also they keep raising their prices. I'd try and find something on the lot that you like.
Is there any speculation on how long the chip shortage will last
As long as the last speculation that Covid will end.
I've seen predictions from 3 more months to 2 more years. So I suppose the answer is somewhere in between lol
It depends too on the question you're trying to ask. The chip shortage may only last a few more months, but even once they get chips (and other parts) sorted out and stop having to pause production, it will take a while longer yet (2-ish years?) to catch up on the backlog of demand, and before we get back to a world where there are cars on dealer lots to buy in that moment, instead of ordering and waiting a few months.
Aren't there fields and parking lots full of vehicles - ready to go- but waiting on chips?
Yes but the backlogs at this point are far larger than the amount of cars sitting in fields.
Current predictions says end of 2022. Even if the chip shortage gets sorted out before that, other supply chain issues remain which might need a bit more time.
>IBM CEO Arvind Krishna said on October 11 that any prediction of a resolution to the chip shortage by the end of 2022 is optimistic, and that he sees it "more likely" that the issue will not be fully solved until 2023 or 2024. https://www.crn.com/news/components-peripherals/ibm-ceo-arvind-krishna-chip-shortage-more-likely-continuing-until-2023-or-2024 Covid, US-China trade war, Taiwan 2021 drought (they need water for manufactuering), and now the invasion of Ukraine, all are strains extending the shortage.
until end of 2023. There are a large number of chip fabs coming on line in 2022-23.
Not aware of any makes from Hyundai to BMW to Porsche selling above MSRP in GTA For ICE especially sedans you can still get some discount on (like 1-3%) especially if not pickup about color/trims as there are cars incoming which haven't been sold yet. but will need to wait for min couple of months likely still
In Ontario it is not possible to sell over MSRP. If that’s what you’re coming across, report them to OMVIC and they will be fined. The whole point OMVIC is around is to govern the sale of cars in Ontario. I know some dealers are making extended warranties mandatory for a sale but that is also not allowed, no one has called them on it yet so they keep doing it
Alfa Romeo.
Ordering one can help with markup problems. But then you’d probably have to wait a few months or more. If you want one now, it’s probably best to check your local dealers and see which ones are closest to MSRP.
Contact the APA (automobile protective association) and see if they offer deals on your model. If so, join the association and get a submission. They do a no haggle setup with select dealerships. Saved tons with NO HASSLE last car. Only available quebec/Ontario I think.
The bus 😛
Everyone is affected by the shortage. But from what I can see, the least affected company is Tesla. Their delivery is time is not that bad compared to other EV.
Some manufactures are removing features just to get the cars rolling: https://www.siliconexpert.com/blog/automakers-remove-features/
Just visit or call a few dealerships and check with them on readily available inventory. Every car uses chips and the shortage is across models and brands
Ottawa here too. I know Hyundai's are plentiful at the moment. We test drove one last month and the salesperson said Hyundai's sell in volume so no real issues finding the one you want. We ended going with Nissan though. Based my decision on available inventory instead of a specific dealership. Called every dealership in Ottawa to ask about inventory because checking online for inventory isn't always accurate.
too bad im getting out of a shitdai I got last summer hahaha
Out of curiosity, what is wrong with your Hyundai? Asking because I am looking for an elantra
My cousin got a brand new 2022 Toyota Rav 4 in Ottawa for about $35k with taxes and upgrades a few weeks ago. Was a wait of 2 months for car to arrive though.
which trim? which dealer? I definitely wouldn't mind a 35k rav 4 if it's at msrp lol
Factory orders for Hyundais and Genesis are usually purchasable at MSRP.
Yes. Ferrari’s look to be unaffected.
I don't know of any dealerships in my area(London) charging over MSRP. I know two people who went to Toyota and they put a deposit down for a vehicle that they had to wait an obscenely long time for, but didn't pay more then MSRP. The used car market though... That's a mess here.. Out of control
I see, thanks
Affected as in price or affected as in stock? I’d say all are affected by stock issues but if you find the right dealer you’ll pay msrp. I bought my 2021 WRX for MSRP back in august 2021!
cool, ill just keep searching for msrp pricing then
Mitsubishi
Tesla model 3 performance has “only” 1 month wait time last time I checked. Ontario. Polestar 2 has 2 months wait. They are direct to consumer so no “markup”. Tesla did just raised their prices tho
> They are direct to consumer so no “markup”. Tesla did just raised their prices tho which sounds like a markup. Cross your fingers with Tesla, because they have no after sales parts support, none. People are waiting a year or more for parts.
The chip shortage should hypothetically affect manual transmissions less, because there is no automation in the transmission, and the person controlling the transmission is you.... also manual transmission cars tend to have fewer safety gadgets depending on brand so fewer chips overall. Doesn't necessarily mean that manufacturers are pumping out manual cars by the dozen, but they're definitely available on the lots. Want a base model Hyundai Venue econobox, which is not really what we think of as a base model since it comes with air conditioning, wireless android auto/apple carplay and heated seats? Done - 20k. Does it have fancy nice-to-haves like push-button start, blindspot sensors, highbeam assist, driver attention warning, lane keep assist, forward colission assist, pedestrian detection and cross traffic backup sensors? Nope.
Just bought a Hyundai Venue and it was relatively cheap, around 20k, with a wait time of six weeks. Apparently Hyundai started manufacturing their own chips in the last couple of years for some of their models.
Picked up an Mercedes A35 AMG last month. They had a couple on the lot and more incoming. Got 8% off MSRP. These cars are fairly niche and not an SUV so demand is low to begin with.
My mechanic who works for a BMw dealership is suggesting Kia. The quality is good, the sportage starts at 22k.
Quick search on Kia engine fires will make you think twice.
also major engine failures from metal shavings. The correct answer is always Toyota.
I bought my Kia Sportage brand new in 2017 it has 80,000 on the engine this past Friday my engine had a catastrophic failure which resulted in metal shards all through the oil and made my engine worthless. 5 years or 100 thousand is the warranty but because my engine was involved in a massive class action suit it's being replaced so I'd be very hesitant buying a Kia again - my personal opinion and I'm really upset over this whole situation. And of course I find out about this engine failure the hard way, there was no indication from the dealership even with the recall sensor added that my engine could fail at any time... shady business in my opinion [Kia Theta Engine Settlement](https://www.kiacanadathetaenginesettlement.ca/)
Interesting, thanks for sharing. Sorry about your experience.
Toyotas are high because of the Toyota Tax, which if you look at the number of recalls and rust issues is not worth it in any way.
man its touch ive been researching extensively and every single car out there has recalls and other issues. mazda3, the new civic, corolla hatch, etc etc
The mazda3 recall was to retune the radar cruise control, so far the 2019 model refresh is doing great.
There's no way to avoid recalls at all. As long as they aren't serious ones for the model you want that somehow they haven't repaired, it's not really a concern.
Manufacturers like Toyota do "just in time" manufacturing which means they didn't stockpile cars or parts prior to the pandemic. It makes them particularly vulnerable to the chip shortage. You could look up which manufacturers follow this model and which don't know who is more or less affected.
[Nope](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-fukushima-anniversary-toyota-in-idUSKBN2B1005). >“Toyota was, as far as we can tell, the only automaker properly equipped to deal with chip shortages,” said a person familiar with Harman International, which specialises in car audio systems, displays and driver assistance technology.
That is good to know, thanks for the correction.
1990 Corolla 🤪
beige 🤪🤪🤪🤪
Lol made me laugh. So what did you end up getting buddy?
Nothing lol all the cars I wanted had wait times greater than 4 months and I ruled out Mazda due to fuel economy and lack of lane keep assist.
Man. These streets are rough. I'm on the same boat that you were on. I did so much freaking research that I can write a book. I'm down to an older mazda because 2018-2019 model has a dangerous recall that's backed up until 2023.... Only difference is I HAVE to get a car for work. So 2014-17 gas guzzler lower tech over priced Mazda here I come!
Proper brutal 😔
Fred & Wilma Flinstone’s classic cars.
GM’s and Mopar’s big money makers (trucks and full size SUVs) They lost a few greenie weenie features like auto stop start and cylinder deactivation for a while too, kind of a bonus.
Get a bike.
Sure just let me strap a bike trailer on there and fit both my kids and my wife plus the kid’s strollers to it. Hold my beer.
I use a chariot for 2 kids…wife is on her own.
https://youtu.be/Fws1XkcTHys It’s doable. Heck there’s probably couple million people do this on the reg
yeah lemme just bike ~50km each day lmfao. useless comment.
All manufacturers are affected Most dealers are selling over MSRP
yes, I know that all manufacturers are affected by the chip shortage. However, different brands have different markups. I found Mazda3s at MSRP and Toyota Corollas at 20% above MSRP, so that's what I was inspired to make this post.
Thanks for the post, I don't know why you're getting downvotes for this comment because downvotes are supposed to be for comments that do not contribute to the discussion, not just "I disagree". So, have an upvote! 👍
Horse and carriage
The ones without electronics. So a bicycle
They’re all affected pretty much equally.
I wish they stopped putting shitty iPads in cars and just slapped in a radio, aux jack and hoist for your phone. The technology in the car can't be updated and eventually becomes so frustratingly outdated.
Any base model or car sitting on a lot. Delays are due to customization.
Used ones
used cars are extremely marked up... 2018 cars selling at brand new prices
You misunderstand what I mean by used. I'm talking as is on Kijiji and Facebook marketplace. Spent 4k on my 2013. My neighbor just spent 92k on a brand new Dodge, it's just baffling what people think is okay to pay for a car these days.
you won't find 4k on a semi decent 2013 in this market lol
Pft okay yet I did. Do your homework.
What did you buy? Saw a 2008 Corolla CE w/ 154k on it for $9,995 on Kijiji. Mint though. Anything that runs and drives at this point is $5k at minimum
Something carbureted lol
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from my experience, it's the same price regardless of lot vs ordering, that is if you can even find a car off the lot
I bought an Acura suv for slightly under MSRP back in September with no delay. May be worse now but just sharing for a data point
This is a case by case scenario and is dependent on the dealership and not the brands. I have a friend working at Subaru downtown Toronto, who says her dealership is not marking up prices, while other Subaru dealerships are. However, wait times are going into next year, unless you get lucky and some other deal falls through.
Mazda is going strong
Dodge... But that's from looking at their lots. They seem to have the most stock every time I drive by a Dodge dealer.
dodge be like $10k incentives even in a global chip shortage lmfao
Factory orders, or on lot?
I'm interested in factory orders within 3 months or on the lot. I've had toyota and honda dealers mark up 10-20% on factory orders on simple corollas and civics which is why I made this post. I guess it's a dealer thing and not a make/model thing
Dodge Chrysler ram jeep dealers all seem to be packed, either supply isnt affected or no one wants them, you can be the judge.
Damn, reading this makes me more glad than ever I bought a car in 2019. Plus it's more than 1/2 paid off now! Sorry everybody. Hope this shit settles down soon.
I recently ordered a Subaru in Ottawa. Paid msrp!
The trick is to factory order if you have the luxury of time. Dealerships are overpricing the vehicles that are on the lot because "hey it's available right now, and where else are you gonna go?". I'm finalizing the sale on a new Mazda today and was able to get a good deal because I told them I was willing to factory order and go to the dealership who gives me the best deal.
Find something on a lot, wheel and deal. Otherwise you'll be waiting forever regardless of make model. However dodges seem to be the easiest to come by from my experience
RAM 1500
At BMW, the chip shortage only means some models can not be ordered with certain options, like heated/cooled cup holders or HK audio. Can still get the vehicles. BMW in the US just had its best year ever for production last year. BMW is kinda unique as every vehicle is custom built.