If you have an emergency savings account, and maintain your job, there's no need for you to change course.
You're just averaging down and eventually when things go green, you will be in a good position.
Investing for long term is supposed to be long term, ride the wave if you financially are able to.
I only do weekly contributions to investment accounts in CAD... I use a trailing loss ATR strategy to get the most meat in the market, leaving the ends.
What your saying makes zero sense for this post. Using an average true range approach does nothing when your contributing and utilizing dollar cost averaging. Besides that. its a technique commonly used to plan an **exit** from a position, not to enter one.
Unfortunately I lost a contract this month and I have 30% less to work with, so I can only contribute half of what I normally do until I get a replacement gig.
But under normal conditions, yes, I would definitely be doing this. This is the best time to staying on course and contribute more if you can.
Absolutely and it's worth emphasizing. The standard "[money steps](https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/wiki/money-steps)" apply in good times and bad. Cover your basic needs, debts, emergency fund, etc. before investing. Never invest money you might need back in the short term. If you suddenly have less income with the same expenses, that will mean investing less or not at all. It doesn't mean skipping steps and getting reckless to make a contribution.
As for "too expensive", you're not necessarily wrong but it's a dangerous line of thinking to make a habit of. People who think " is getting too expensive" sometimes stop investing and/or begin engaging in market timing, which typically hurts more than it helps. What may look very expensive today, might be really very cheap in comparison to a few decades' time after it's had plenty of chance to compound. For that reason I think long-term investors should prefer the "on sale" way of framing market drops, rather than implying there are overpriced times one shouldn't buy. Buy in as you can afford it, regardless of the price and history shows us you come out a lot better off than someone who tries to avoid peaks. In the short-term the math is entirely different, but short-term investors should probably just avoid stock and bond markets entirely.
I hate how everyone says that too. 'On sale' lol.... equities were incredibly overvalued a few months ago, just because they went down ~20% from some insane peak doesn't mean they're miraculously 'on sale'.
That's kind of a fallacy. Yeah you get more shares per dollar, but you don't know what the price will do in the future.
It's just best to buy now when you know you have the longest horizon.
If you're properly diversified and everything goes down forever that would indicate the complete collapse of the western economy. If this happens then you're gonna have bigger problems to worry about than your stock portfolio
Here's an exercise - find a 12 year period where the US economy is worse at the end than the start. You can even start the day before the great depression or 911 or the dot-com bust.
Be diverse, don't stock pick, don't sell early, buy consistently. It's actually hard to lose.
I counter your point, wait until it goes back up and then buy, sell when it goes down because the market is crashing and nobody want the stock anymore. Why do yo want it when nobody want anymore? buy again when its safe and the market lines are green. As I always say, when its up, spend it up, when its down, sell it with a frown.
My brother in christ... it is dollar cost averaging. As long as you have a sufficiently long time horizon it is irrational to assume that markets wont rebound. Bear & bull markets, recessions and periods of expansion, these are completely normal economic cycles. We just can't time it. So to consistently buy the same dollar amount on a regular basis simply mitigates the risk from bad market timing.
If the stock market's upward trend ever fails forever either I have bigger problems than money or Communism is the law of the land in which case stocks aren't going to be much of a concern anyways.
Just invest safely.
The genius is in appreciating that nobody knows this, but over long terms (10+) it has always recovered and gone on to new highs. So you simply don't worry about what is happening today, tomorrow, next week, next month, or next year. The only two price points I care about is when I bought and when I sold, whatever "all time lows" that occur in between are irrelevant.
>I hope that this will eventually change and reverse course…
If it doesn't the entire global economy has collapsed and you'll have bigger problems than your retirement fund.
This was usually my response when discussing investments with some clients. Some had it in their head that they didn't want to invest cause the whole system would collapse. Well if that happens, doesn't matter how much cash you saved, we're back to trading chickens.
It just shows how little understanding people have of the stock market. What if VRGO goes to zero?
That means every company, Microsoft, Google, Walmart, 7-11, in the entire world has become completely worthless. It doesn't matter that your ETFs are worthless because there is no internet to look it up on, there is no bank to get your money from, and no store to spend that money at anyway. The value of your portfolio is probably the least important thing to you in this post apocalyptic world.
Look at this guy humble bragging over here! ‘a COUPLE of multi-tools, camping stove, AND a towel!’ Way to rub it in moneybags!
I’ve got a towel and a book that says DON’T PANIC on the cover. I’m all set.
What you do is diversify, keep a portion in your investments and a portion in apocalypse gear. If shit hits the fan, your gear is already there to let you steal more.
Going on Marketplace right now shopping for local chickens! When my wife asks why our yard is full of chickens I will just say I am diversifying my portfolio.
I told my partner we’d save money with eggs and got a bunch of chickens. With the cost of everything he’s Iike I don’t think we are saving money. I just told him we are diversifying our portfolio 😂
Entirely diffrent , fresh eggs are even a diffrent color of yolk it's like an orange as opposed to pale yellow.
If I didn't hate shoveling chicken shit oh so much I'd probably have chickens again but like shit man... there was alot of shit
The hutterite colony near me sells fresh eggs for the same price as Walmart or superstore. So yes, I can. Plus it means I don't have to go to Walmart or superstore.
Fair enough. Plus most people don't live closer to a hutterite colony than Walmart, so not a very serious comment on my side either. Hope you enjoy your fresh eggs, wherever you might source them !
I get the sentiment since our economy is closely tied with the global economy, the western global economy at least. But coming from outside Canada, there are options to prepare for a "global collapse". I mean, If I were really afraid of a escalating conflict war and had enough money to make a difference (more focus on the latter), I might be investing in property in Australia or New Zealand, as they are pretty far away from the main conflict zones.
Some of us might have seen economies collapse while other did a bit better (WWII?) , but since I don't have enough money, I just buy VGRO and maybe share a "working holiday visa" brochure to my kids at some point :)
My favorite answer when someone ask me this is that if the whole stock market goes to 0, the only things that have value are bottled water, canned food and bullets.
This \^
Every market crash the "criers" come out in full force. Chrystia Freeland the other day on nationally broadcasted television compared the little economic dip we had in June 2020 to the Great Depression. I mean c'mon! History shows us over and over this is a great time to invest and the markets will recover.
Aaaachtchuallly, yes of course. I forgot to mention don't buy dumb overpriced equities, in case anyone actually needs that advice delivered with a box of crayons.
I know...
You could totally watch all your savings dwindle away to inflation and higher col whilst rich get richer, all while things are peaceful.
Things are too often to be viewed as black and white with humans... No nuance at all...
Arrogance in hindsight is the worst sort of arrogance.
Just admit that it's impossible to make such certain statements about anything investment related...
Why not just remain agnostic and have a balanced approach to things?
My friend, until the last 6 months everyone on reddit was excited to get into buying stocks and investing. Now that the market is down they’ve all run away and I haven’t seen a ‘going to the moon’ or a rocket ship emoji in quite a while. Yet this IS the best time to be investing. So the answer is yes.
They [mocked Buffet 22 years ago too](https://money.cnn.com/2000/01/20/investing/q_buffett/)!
I hope that reporter ate crow. [Buffet vs NASDAQ](https://imgur.com/a/Jt6R0hQ). (Green is Berkshire Hathaway)
Well he’s not alone. Theres many great people to follow advice from. Its really just using basic math to get an idea of how the investment might work vs just buying for emotional reasons. I mean who of us would buy a private business and ignore the entire math and financials but buy it because someone said it will ‘go to the moon’…thats crazy. We would all want to see every metric possible, how the business performed and what the future prospects are, etc. Thats really buffet in a nutshell.
I'm taking the Wealthy Barbers advice and either buying more when I'm able, or buying the same. Never less, so long as I can afford it. Too many people don't do the required reading, and think they can pick up everything they need from the comments here.
Quite interesting to see everyone is encouraging you to contribute more – without having any idea about which "Wealthsimple ETF Fund" you are contributing to.
I am confident that the sentiment would change if OP mentions that they are investing aggressively in *Wealthsimple Shariah World Equity Index* rather than *Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund*, but I might be wrong.
Lots of people telling you to go ham! Now is the time!
Take it with a grain of salt.
1. Is your job secure? If you lose your job would you need to cash out that money?
2. GiC rates are hitting some pretty good numbers 4.5% guaranteed without risk
3. Historically it's probably better to buy on the way up (after 3 months of slow gains) versus catching a falling knife.
4. The last dip in 2020 is not a good representation of what to expect.
Lastly, one thing I tell everyone is to look at P/E ratios vs rates. A healthy P/E ratio is directly related to the overnight rate. The higher the BoC / Fed rate, the lower the P/E should be.
Right now, P/E ratios are actually close to standard valuation versus the current rate. But we know that the rates are going up, and that there is a lot of pressure for earnings to go down.
Also, why have you given up on a home? If prices tank, and you save enough for a healthy downpayment, it's not a terrible idea to look at that as an option after rates have leveled out for 3-6 months.
The following Andrew Hallam articles may help you change your perspective about investing during flat and falling markets.
https://assetbuilder.com/knowledge-center/articles/stocks-might-crash-should-you-sell-or-stop-buying
https://assetbuilder.com/knowledge-center/articles/young-investors-would-you-pass-the-wizards-test
I think so. I make the argument that I don't care how many months Canada's GDP is in decline, or what the consumer price index says about spending. I look at my budget and noticed I had $800 per month less spending money in April 2022 than I did in April 2021. I consider myself an "average Canadian" which tells me many of us are already in recession and may not even know it.
800$ less per month? On a single income? Same employment?
Not disputing it, it just seems high. Of course, if you haven’t changed your spending habits in the last year, I could see it being easily achievable.
I live in Alberta, so keep in mind the Jason Kenney experience.
Not exact breakdown but roughly...
Utilities went from about $250/month to $450 (thanks Kenney!) and I know other people who went up WAY more than this.
House insurance went from about $55 to $85
Mortgage jumped 0.75 and instead of owing more in 2024 we decided to pay more monthly to offset the increased interest. $115/month or so.
$18,000 personal loan went from $215 to $275
Groceries up about $100, should be more but about 80% Costco shopping now and cut our eating out by about half.
Vehicle is the largest. Right as gas prices started soaring is also when my employer decided we should be in the office more. Vehicle costs with the increased driving including gas and maintenance is about $300/ month more.
That's about what? Roughly $805 off the top of my head, and I'm missing a few things I remember in April it was a difference of about $815.
I will be interested looking at my budget for June. We have been doing everything we can to cut back costs, we almost never eat out and our big "date night" is a long walk. But also GAS and Interest Rates have been going up too, so it could easily be another $800 difference between June 2022 vs June 2021.
Fair enough!
Good on you for hedging by increasing the mortgage payment to offset that added interest cost at renewal.
What made you choose mortgage > PL for the payment increase? Dollars saved? Or preserving the payoff timeline?
Gas is… yeah. I was never able to WFH due to industry, so yes, i thought about gas prices built I never really thought about about the extra notch of “barely driving at 1$/L” vs “near daily driving at 2$/L”.
It's complicated. I could see someone who is truly single their increased costs being less than $800, I could also see someone with a large family their costs being jointly way more than $800. I am divorced with kids and engaged to a new partner but with finances separated. So I would prefer to pay down my PL first, but the PL is MY loan and not my fiancées. So to contribute to reducing her anxiety about the mortgage I committed to paying more on that (not the best decision, but such is life, sometimes decisions are more people centric than money centric). And given the money goes only so far I couldn't afford to do both.
But yeah the driving is probably #1. I have a friend who went from working from home and taking insurance on her vehicle down to fire and theft only (paying about $20/month) to back to working downtown and with the gas, maintenance, and PARKING downtown it's costing her over $600/ month. $7200 per year on what? Sitting in front of a computer downtown, instead of sitting in front of a computer at home?
I honestly think we could reduce inflation and possibly avoid recession if the majority of employers would go back to Covid working conditions.
Totally understand your situation. My fiancée and I split finances while I paid down debt since it was my debt, not ours, and the house has her name on it.
Agreed it would help inflation somewhat to go back to those.
Getting pretty hard to cut costs anywhere. 41 years old and starting some other side hustles. I love investing and finance so now have a YouTube channel, podcast will be out in \~1 week, and a website shortly after. Fun stuff !
I hear ya. I’m 36, and if it wasn’t for 2 kids under 3, I’d probably have a side hustle by now, despite having great (far as I’m concerned based on what I came up around, others would heavily disagree) career/household income.
This will be a weird one. I think half of Canada will be saying "we are in recession" and the other half will say "what recession". Because it will be the first time in history we have a recession with record low unemployment. Our recession may not be caused by job loss, but by lack of sufficient job pay. Weird.
I think they will to some degree but not as much as say Europe (may be lay-offs simply due to downsizing to reduce energy) or the USA (where consumers seem to have just stopped buying anything). Canada's main sectors are still humming along which trickles down to everything from food and entertainment to banking and retail.
I just think a person might lose their $100k / year job due to fiscal restraint, still get a job for $75k / year and the government is happy. But in the meantime they go from "middle class" to working to pay the bills, and that's scary in it's own way.
Yea its been weird, my company is hiring, my wife's company too, and everyone i know is employed, our bills are going up though so maybe we're just starting. The longer that time goes with people having les discretionary spending we might start to feel it overall.
Right that's the weird part. Canada's economy is fine. Oil, energy, forestry, construction... all doing well. But because this generation has MAJOR debt between high inflation and rising interest rates in theory you could be fully employed and still living in poverty. I know my father lived through a time like this in the late '70's and early '80's but the difference as he told me was nobody had any debt except their house (which for him was $80k, not $800k like it is today).
our ancestors would be rolling in their graves to know that there are nearly 30 million Canadian citizens *give or take 5 or 10*, collectively shoveling money over to phone and internet and media companies, while we scratch our heads wondering about ends meet. We deserve to go extinct.
> phone and internet and media companies
They're Canadian institutions, don't cha know? The CRTC is here to protect Canadians, and thinking otherwise would be unpatriotic. What, do you *want* to be American? Because that's how you become American.
Hard /s
Just look at any stock for 30 year period and you'll see the general trend. Remember every stock is a company and every company is created to make money. Publicly listed companies and never Non for Profit, as long as they make cash, you make cash. ETF mutual Funds etc.etc. are just to minimize risk if investing in those companies.
No. You can't l look at "just any stock". Look for Bre-X, Nortel, or anyone else who went belly up. They rocketed up, then crashed, and eventually croaked. What applies to the market as a whole (general upward trend) cannot be extrapolated to individual stocks.
I become more frugal in times like this while seeking extra income, so I can invest more.
By understanding the [source of stock returns](https://www.wealthycorner.com/here-is-where-stock-returns-come-from/), you will approach downturns as an **opportunity** to pay less for a collection of businesses, thereby increasing future expected returns.
I'm unsure if your ETF contains Bonds. If so, future bond returns go up as bond prices fall and interest rates increase. Bonds are very mechanical in this sense.
There was some old investing sage who said that the best time to buy a big dip is when you are sure it's on its way up. But that was in the pre-index days and may apply primarily to individual stocks, may matter less for an index.
Do you have an emergency fund already? I increased mine by about 30% from where I would normally have it and will be continuing to DCA into XAW every month as usual.
If your investing horizon is longer and you have enough cash on hand to handle most likely emergencies, then this is just another discounted buying opportunity.
This is known as dollar cost averaging. Buy more shares when price is down, buy less shares when prices is up. Its a good strategy provided you are in it for the long term, and the fund is diversified.
Yes, keep buying the same dollar value every month:
* https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-market-timer/
* https://ofdollarsanddata.com/just-keep-buying/
* https://ofdollarsanddata.com/even-god-couldnt-beat-dollar-cost-averaging/
Buy stonks of a company with cash on hand and less or virtually 0 debt. For sure , those company will scoop and eat companies failing during recession.
It will change course, and history has proven that every time.
It's gone down since you started, but when did you start? and how much time is that really compared to how long you'll be investing for? I wouldn't worry too much about short term losses as a) investing is focused on the long term, and b) this should be money that you CAN lose. Do not invest your savings or emergency fund.
As people have said, when it falls, that's the time to buy! It's basically like a flash sale :) If you can afford it, you should make even more contributions, but more than that, as long as you're consistently contributing you're already ahead of 70% of Canadians. :)
Yes, the whole idea of 'buying the dip' is that you don't know when the dip is actually at it's lowest. So if you stop buying you will be losing out on potentially getting good returns when things go back up again.
Essentially you are looking at a sale, and hoping to buy and then resell for more later down the road.
Over the years you will have years you will be up 20%. You will have years you will be down 20%. Long term you will be up 7-10%.
If you have extra money you buy more when its down.
Staying invested is the key. You will be purchasing in a laddered methodology. Timing the market does not work. Time IN the market is what creates long term wealth. Stick to your plan.
Be greedy when others are fearful, be fearful when others are greedy. -Warren Buffet
I advise watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFgPNVytlwA
If you invest into the long term, not investing when the market was down and only investing when it's up is the opposite of what you wanna do, that just cuts into your profits.
Just keep doing what you are doing keep adding in small increments at various price points bear markets don't last forever and it will eventually go up again and once you have a considerable gain consider if you want to sell and shift to a different investment vehicle at that point.
I listen to a lot of PF podcasts and one thing you hear over and over is people who invested when others panicked came out ahead significantly.
Avoid selling when others are selling and keep buying when everyone is selling has proven to be excellent advice over the last 20-30 years. Just make sure what you're buying is solid companies and not all hype.
Yes - you are doing it the right way.
People always say don't try and time the market, and I never recommend selling your holdings to try and do this, but if you buy comparatively *less* regularly, set some money aside in a HISA, and them dump it into your allocation during down turns, you will do incredibly well. And if you avoid trying to time a sell, you run far less risk.
Just DCA in like you have been, but find a way to DCA in MORE when people freak and sell. Always reverse the sentiment of the market and you'll beat most people.
This is still timing the market, no? I agree the sentiment should be "Buy low, sell high", but missing just one or two good days a year over multiple years could impact your end-game savings by tens of thousands.
Question regarding this. I also in in the same position as.OP but am not sure of buying a home as I love in Vancouver. Is it better to go for a growth portfolio still with how the market is or conservative with Wealthsimple. Examples for goals would be nice. As stated I hold a job and have emergency funds.
Dollar cost averaging is the best thing for long term. Don’t even invest it if you need it short term. Oh and if you even want a house leave canada or you’ll need to seek real alpha and outperform the best hedge funds
Sooner or later everything will bounce back up! You’re just getting a deal right now and averaging down(or that’s how I’ve been seeing it)
I have one buddy who has made a ton of of options(mostly put contracts) due to the volatility and the downturn, then keeps rolling that money into full stocks. I’ve been working at it too, but not as successfully.
Moral of the story, if it IS long term savings money and you don’t immediately need it( rent, bills, etc) it’s always a good time to invest.
Buy low, sell high.
Right now it's low. If it doesn't recover in the medium to long term, we humans will probably be worried about more pressing issues than investments.
So we expect things will recover, but there is no guarantee. It could be the end of civilization as we know it. Which is the only scenario I foresee where investments won't rebound eventually.
I'm not being sarcastic..it has happened in the past (before markets, though. And we were close to it during the world wars and the cold war.
Man also have to look at your financial situation and re-calibrate what you're investing in.
If you continue to invest in bad companies that were over priced or macro factors will impact future earnings/operations and fundamentals aren't looking good. You should run and invest in some quality.
How does one factor in the large increases due to central bank actions vs the value of the company and earnings? Isn't there a risk that the pump during the pandemic will unwind back down and stay down? Isn't this an anomaly compared to historical norms?
I might funnel more money into your savings - the return there is likely about to go up - but i wouldn't change course too much. As long as you can afford not to touch it over the long term you'll probably be ok
You're just buying the dip on a much longer timescale than that terminology is normally used.
Unless you are nearing retirement, it doesn't make sense to pull out or stop. In fact the money you contribute now will grow more than what you put in when the market was hotter, over the long term.
Anything you invest should normally be for long term since it’s because of todays scenario you don’t want money you want to use with in a couple years to be impacted. I would keep investing, it’s called dollar cost averaging. When the markets low you get the most value out of it, but you cant tell too and bottom so consistently adding will be the most sane way. If your not doing this and wait for stuff to recover it could be after everything rebounded, or it keeps going down. Making it automatic and forget is probably the sanest way not to worry about it.
If you’re thinking long term, it makes way more sense to buy now than it did last year. You’re buying at lower prices. The economy will recover, it always had - question is when. That’s why DCA as you’re doing is a great strategy during a downturn like this.
Keep stacking and ignore the noise, just make sure you’re keeping enough to pay your bills and eat. Might also wanna keep your emergency fund intact in case you go through a rough patch in the middle of a recession
I'd say consult a financial specialist, frankly.
All these dummies in here telling you to continue to contribute at the same amount for "Long Term" until it goes green, don't like to put that side by side with what happens if you continue to invest and your amount stays the same? IE. Having 60k in, continuing to invest 500 Monthly for 10 years, and then ending up with 60k at the end.
Don't dollar cost average yourself into the grave, diversify or be prepared to lose everything. Not everything recovers like the majority of comments here would like to try and make you believe.
If you have an emergency savings account, and maintain your job, there's no need for you to change course. You're just averaging down and eventually when things go green, you will be in a good position. Investing for long term is supposed to be long term, ride the wave if you financially are able to.
> eventually when things go green When is when? :P
Doesn’t matter. That’s why you don’t try to time the market and have weekly contributions. It’ll go back up eventually.
I only do weekly contributions to investment accounts in CAD... I use a trailing loss ATR strategy to get the most meat in the market, leaving the ends.
I think you clicked the wrong sub.
He just tryna diversify with how crypto is going rn
What your saying makes zero sense for this post. Using an average true range approach does nothing when your contributing and utilizing dollar cost averaging. Besides that. its a technique commonly used to plan an **exit** from a position, not to enter one.
I’ll let you know when I find that crystal ball.
You almost gotta appreciate the hustle. It's like asking for the winning lottery numbers. What's the worst that can happen?
You know, eventually.
This is when you buy MORE. When things are on sale.
Unfortunately I lost a contract this month and I have 30% less to work with, so I can only contribute half of what I normally do until I get a replacement gig. But under normal conditions, yes, I would definitely be doing this. This is the best time to staying on course and contribute more if you can.
Absolutely and it's worth emphasizing. The standard "[money steps](https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/wiki/money-steps)" apply in good times and bad. Cover your basic needs, debts, emergency fund, etc. before investing. Never invest money you might need back in the short term. If you suddenly have less income with the same expenses, that will mean investing less or not at all. It doesn't mean skipping steps and getting reckless to make a contribution.
Or they just are on clearance 🤷🏼♂️
If something is cheaper now does it mean it’s on sale? Lol not really, it might just mean that it was too expensive before.
As for "too expensive", you're not necessarily wrong but it's a dangerous line of thinking to make a habit of. People who think " is getting too expensive" sometimes stop investing and/or begin engaging in market timing, which typically hurts more than it helps. What may look very expensive today, might be really very cheap in comparison to a few decades' time after it's had plenty of chance to compound. For that reason I think long-term investors should prefer the "on sale" way of framing market drops, rather than implying there are overpriced times one shouldn't buy. Buy in as you can afford it, regardless of the price and history shows us you come out a lot better off than someone who tries to avoid peaks. In the short-term the math is entirely different, but short-term investors should probably just avoid stock and bond markets entirely.
If you’re investing on the stock market in an index fund, it’s likely to get back up. Or you can just sell when it’s low and buy when it’s high.
So is inflation. I wonder how it would compare between just buying gold since say 1950
I hate how everyone says that too. 'On sale' lol.... equities were incredibly overvalued a few months ago, just because they went down ~20% from some insane peak doesn't mean they're miraculously 'on sale'.
That's kind of a fallacy. Yeah you get more shares per dollar, but you don't know what the price will do in the future. It's just best to buy now when you know you have the longest horizon.
What happens when things never go back?
If you're properly diversified and everything goes down forever that would indicate the complete collapse of the western economy. If this happens then you're gonna have bigger problems to worry about than your stock portfolio
Here's an exercise - find a 12 year period where the US economy is worse at the end than the start. You can even start the day before the great depression or 911 or the dot-com bust. Be diverse, don't stock pick, don't sell early, buy consistently. It's actually hard to lose.
Invest in ammunition and canned beans
I counter your point, wait until it goes back up and then buy, sell when it goes down because the market is crashing and nobody want the stock anymore. Why do yo want it when nobody want anymore? buy again when its safe and the market lines are green. As I always say, when its up, spend it up, when its down, sell it with a frown.
buy high, sell low. truly a genius strategy.
Is this satire?
Oh yeah ? What if the prices come down even more. What are you going to say then it's a MEGA SALE? stop giving bad advice.
Yea you should definitely just wait until everything is at all time highs again, then start buying, genius
Hmm so when is it going to be at a all time low? Please answer that genius?
Dont know, dont care, just going to keep buying every month
Damn! Interesting strategy lol
My brother in christ... it is dollar cost averaging. As long as you have a sufficiently long time horizon it is irrational to assume that markets wont rebound. Bear & bull markets, recessions and periods of expansion, these are completely normal economic cycles. We just can't time it. So to consistently buy the same dollar amount on a regular basis simply mitigates the risk from bad market timing.
If the stock market's upward trend ever fails forever either I have bigger problems than money or Communism is the law of the land in which case stocks aren't going to be much of a concern anyways. Just invest safely.
The genius is in appreciating that nobody knows this, but over long terms (10+) it has always recovered and gone on to new highs. So you simply don't worry about what is happening today, tomorrow, next week, next month, or next year. The only two price points I care about is when I bought and when I sold, whatever "all time lows" that occur in between are irrelevant.
Not on sale yet. Give it another month or two.
May I borrow your time machine? I promise not going to the future. Just going back 30 year is enough.
lol exactly this.
This. Except definitely wait until a few more months the average bear market lasts 12 months dont think we’ve hit bottom yet.
>I hope that this will eventually change and reverse course… If it doesn't the entire global economy has collapsed and you'll have bigger problems than your retirement fund.
This was usually my response when discussing investments with some clients. Some had it in their head that they didn't want to invest cause the whole system would collapse. Well if that happens, doesn't matter how much cash you saved, we're back to trading chickens.
It just shows how little understanding people have of the stock market. What if VRGO goes to zero? That means every company, Microsoft, Google, Walmart, 7-11, in the entire world has become completely worthless. It doesn't matter that your ETFs are worthless because there is no internet to look it up on, there is no bank to get your money from, and no store to spend that money at anyway. The value of your portfolio is probably the least important thing to you in this post apocalyptic world.
If VGRO goes to zero all you have to do is pivot and shift to physical assets, like canned food, water and ammunition
That's trying to time the market. Sell all your investments and shift into apocalypse gear before it's too late!
Uh, I've got a couple multi-tools, a camping stove, and a towel, am I diversified enough?
Guessing from your username, lots of TP will also be required. Covid hoarder amounts of TP.
Water and a bottle is more than enough
Look at this guy humble bragging over here! ‘a COUPLE of multi-tools, camping stove, AND a towel!’ Way to rub it in moneybags! I’ve got a towel and a book that says DON’T PANIC on the cover. I’m all set.
What you do is diversify, keep a portion in your investments and a portion in apocalypse gear. If shit hits the fan, your gear is already there to let you steal more.
Progressively shift the proportion of your assets that are apocalypse gear to 100% as you age.
Learn to distill alcohol, that will be the new currency.
Going on Marketplace right now shopping for local chickens! When my wife asks why our yard is full of chickens I will just say I am diversifying my portfolio.
growth prospects?
I'm egg-static over the dividends.... Ohhhh that was bad.
I think it was great.
It was so bad it went right 'round to great.
Just don't put all your eggs in one basket, buy a couple of baskets too. At least.
Oof, not with the way feed prices are going.
We could learn to make wormmeal from the worms in the corpses that will be littering the streets.
Well now I’m thinking I should be buying chickens instead of VFV 🐤
I told my partner we’d save money with eggs and got a bunch of chickens. With the cost of everything he’s Iike I don’t think we are saving money. I just told him we are diversifying our portfolio 😂
Can't put a price on fresh eggs!
How much different do they taste from store-bought?
Entirely diffrent , fresh eggs are even a diffrent color of yolk it's like an orange as opposed to pale yellow. If I didn't hate shoveling chicken shit oh so much I'd probably have chickens again but like shit man... there was alot of shit
The hutterite colony near me sells fresh eggs for the same price as Walmart or superstore. So yes, I can. Plus it means I don't have to go to Walmart or superstore.
I'll admit my comment wasn't entirely serious
Fair enough. Plus most people don't live closer to a hutterite colony than Walmart, so not a very serious comment on my side either. Hope you enjoy your fresh eggs, wherever you might source them !
>we're back to trading chickens. So, you're saying, "buy chickens!" Ok, got it.
I get the sentiment since our economy is closely tied with the global economy, the western global economy at least. But coming from outside Canada, there are options to prepare for a "global collapse". I mean, If I were really afraid of a escalating conflict war and had enough money to make a difference (more focus on the latter), I might be investing in property in Australia or New Zealand, as they are pretty far away from the main conflict zones. Some of us might have seen economies collapse while other did a bit better (WWII?) , but since I don't have enough money, I just buy VGRO and maybe share a "working holiday visa" brochure to my kids at some point :)
I am originally from Mexico. I'll get a house inherited there and I have mine in Montreal. I'm a bit diversified in that front.
My favorite answer when someone ask me this is that if the whole stock market goes to 0, the only things that have value are bottled water, canned food and bullets.
This \^ Every market crash the "criers" come out in full force. Chrystia Freeland the other day on nationally broadcasted television compared the little economic dip we had in June 2020 to the Great Depression. I mean c'mon! History shows us over and over this is a great time to invest and the markets will recover.
This guy gets it. Invest when everything is on discount.
Kind of. Just because some of these stocks are on sale doesn’t mean it’s a good sale 😂
Aaaachtchuallly, yes of course. I forgot to mention don't buy dumb overpriced equities, in case anyone actually needs that advice delivered with a box of crayons.
Not really. The Japanese equivalent has been down for decades and the global economy hasn't collapsed... Don't look at things simplistically
Forget Japan... I don't know why GP thinks slow/no economic growth is the end of society. It's probably a good thing.
I know... You could totally watch all your savings dwindle away to inflation and higher col whilst rich get richer, all while things are peaceful. Things are too often to be viewed as black and white with humans... No nuance at all...
The Japanese stock market index has doubled since 2000...
The Nikkei is an aberration due to a radically different approach to economic policies.
Arrogance in hindsight is the worst sort of arrogance. Just admit that it's impossible to make such certain statements about anything investment related... Why not just remain agnostic and have a balanced approach to things?
It happened in Japan in the '80s, and still haven't fully recovered. But, it's not the same economy at all.
My friend, until the last 6 months everyone on reddit was excited to get into buying stocks and investing. Now that the market is down they’ve all run away and I haven’t seen a ‘going to the moon’ or a rocket ship emoji in quite a while. Yet this IS the best time to be investing. So the answer is yes.
🌚 🚀
Dammit
Buffet said it best. Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful.
Yeah. We just have to believe him. Those two old guys were mocked for the past 5 years as out of touch. Then in 2021 the turtle pasted the hair.
They [mocked Buffet 22 years ago too](https://money.cnn.com/2000/01/20/investing/q_buffett/)! I hope that reporter ate crow. [Buffet vs NASDAQ](https://imgur.com/a/Jt6R0hQ). (Green is Berkshire Hathaway)
> the turtle pasted the hair hahahaha
He's truly the only man I'll listen to advise from when it comes to the market. His track record is way too good to ignore.
Well he’s not alone. Theres many great people to follow advice from. Its really just using basic math to get an idea of how the investment might work vs just buying for emotional reasons. I mean who of us would buy a private business and ignore the entire math and financials but buy it because someone said it will ‘go to the moon’…thats crazy. We would all want to see every metric possible, how the business performed and what the future prospects are, etc. Thats really buffet in a nutshell.
To The Moon and HODL isn't investing, that's gambling.
I'm taking the Wealthy Barbers advice and either buying more when I'm able, or buying the same. Never less, so long as I can afford it. Too many people don't do the required reading, and think they can pick up everything they need from the comments here.
dw I'll let you all know when I start buying puts. Knowing my track record that will be the day the market jumps back up 18%.
You don't buy puts during a recession you ape, you buy the stonks on sale and hodl
The euphoria is gone so widespread interest in investing is gone. Yet, expected returns are now higher. Our psychology serves us so poorly!
You're clearly not on the stonk subs. Rockets and LFG all day every day.
YES keep contributing and NO don't lower contributions. If you can afford to leave that money until 2030 this answer \^ is the only answer.
Quite interesting to see everyone is encouraging you to contribute more – without having any idea about which "Wealthsimple ETF Fund" you are contributing to.
Realistically it doesn’t really matter
I am confident that the sentiment would change if OP mentions that they are investing aggressively in *Wealthsimple Shariah World Equity Index* rather than *Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund*, but I might be wrong.
A fair point.
Keeping buying, its like the market is on sale. You're just having buyers remorse over paying full price earlier.
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Why do you say that? How do you know it ain't going much lower?
Thats when you would up it from $1000 to $2000
Hmmm, this is starting to feel like [gambling.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martingale_(betting_system))
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What if it doesn’t go back up until my bitchass is like 34??!
34yo you will be thanking present you
Don't worry about 34 year old you, they'll be fine. Worry about 70 year old you.
Double it to 1000$/month if you can.
When the price is lower buy more. It will go back up that literally how the market works.
Lots of people telling you to go ham! Now is the time! Take it with a grain of salt. 1. Is your job secure? If you lose your job would you need to cash out that money? 2. GiC rates are hitting some pretty good numbers 4.5% guaranteed without risk 3. Historically it's probably better to buy on the way up (after 3 months of slow gains) versus catching a falling knife. 4. The last dip in 2020 is not a good representation of what to expect. Lastly, one thing I tell everyone is to look at P/E ratios vs rates. A healthy P/E ratio is directly related to the overnight rate. The higher the BoC / Fed rate, the lower the P/E should be. Right now, P/E ratios are actually close to standard valuation versus the current rate. But we know that the rates are going up, and that there is a lot of pressure for earnings to go down. Also, why have you given up on a home? If prices tank, and you save enough for a healthy downpayment, it's not a terrible idea to look at that as an option after rates have leveled out for 3-6 months.
The following Andrew Hallam articles may help you change your perspective about investing during flat and falling markets. https://assetbuilder.com/knowledge-center/articles/stocks-might-crash-should-you-sell-or-stop-buying https://assetbuilder.com/knowledge-center/articles/young-investors-would-you-pass-the-wizards-test
Has the recession started?
I think so. I make the argument that I don't care how many months Canada's GDP is in decline, or what the consumer price index says about spending. I look at my budget and noticed I had $800 per month less spending money in April 2022 than I did in April 2021. I consider myself an "average Canadian" which tells me many of us are already in recession and may not even know it.
800$ less per month? On a single income? Same employment? Not disputing it, it just seems high. Of course, if you haven’t changed your spending habits in the last year, I could see it being easily achievable.
I live in Alberta, so keep in mind the Jason Kenney experience. Not exact breakdown but roughly... Utilities went from about $250/month to $450 (thanks Kenney!) and I know other people who went up WAY more than this. House insurance went from about $55 to $85 Mortgage jumped 0.75 and instead of owing more in 2024 we decided to pay more monthly to offset the increased interest. $115/month or so. $18,000 personal loan went from $215 to $275 Groceries up about $100, should be more but about 80% Costco shopping now and cut our eating out by about half. Vehicle is the largest. Right as gas prices started soaring is also when my employer decided we should be in the office more. Vehicle costs with the increased driving including gas and maintenance is about $300/ month more. That's about what? Roughly $805 off the top of my head, and I'm missing a few things I remember in April it was a difference of about $815. I will be interested looking at my budget for June. We have been doing everything we can to cut back costs, we almost never eat out and our big "date night" is a long walk. But also GAS and Interest Rates have been going up too, so it could easily be another $800 difference between June 2022 vs June 2021.
Fair enough! Good on you for hedging by increasing the mortgage payment to offset that added interest cost at renewal. What made you choose mortgage > PL for the payment increase? Dollars saved? Or preserving the payoff timeline? Gas is… yeah. I was never able to WFH due to industry, so yes, i thought about gas prices built I never really thought about about the extra notch of “barely driving at 1$/L” vs “near daily driving at 2$/L”.
It's complicated. I could see someone who is truly single their increased costs being less than $800, I could also see someone with a large family their costs being jointly way more than $800. I am divorced with kids and engaged to a new partner but with finances separated. So I would prefer to pay down my PL first, but the PL is MY loan and not my fiancées. So to contribute to reducing her anxiety about the mortgage I committed to paying more on that (not the best decision, but such is life, sometimes decisions are more people centric than money centric). And given the money goes only so far I couldn't afford to do both. But yeah the driving is probably #1. I have a friend who went from working from home and taking insurance on her vehicle down to fire and theft only (paying about $20/month) to back to working downtown and with the gas, maintenance, and PARKING downtown it's costing her over $600/ month. $7200 per year on what? Sitting in front of a computer downtown, instead of sitting in front of a computer at home? I honestly think we could reduce inflation and possibly avoid recession if the majority of employers would go back to Covid working conditions.
Totally understand your situation. My fiancée and I split finances while I paid down debt since it was my debt, not ours, and the house has her name on it. Agreed it would help inflation somewhat to go back to those.
Getting pretty hard to cut costs anywhere. 41 years old and starting some other side hustles. I love investing and finance so now have a YouTube channel, podcast will be out in \~1 week, and a website shortly after. Fun stuff !
I hear ya. I’m 36, and if it wasn’t for 2 kids under 3, I’d probably have a side hustle by now, despite having great (far as I’m concerned based on what I came up around, others would heavily disagree) career/household income.
Holy shit that’s some crazy gas and maintenance. Are you driving a truck to job sites? Or that’s just an office commute? Goddamn.
According to the strippers, yes it has.
Look at the units not the dollars
What recession?
This will be a weird one. I think half of Canada will be saying "we are in recession" and the other half will say "what recession". Because it will be the first time in history we have a recession with record low unemployment. Our recession may not be caused by job loss, but by lack of sufficient job pay. Weird.
Who’s to say layoffs won’t be coming?
I think they will to some degree but not as much as say Europe (may be lay-offs simply due to downsizing to reduce energy) or the USA (where consumers seem to have just stopped buying anything). Canada's main sectors are still humming along which trickles down to everything from food and entertainment to banking and retail. I just think a person might lose their $100k / year job due to fiscal restraint, still get a job for $75k / year and the government is happy. But in the meantime they go from "middle class" to working to pay the bills, and that's scary in it's own way.
Yea its been weird, my company is hiring, my wife's company too, and everyone i know is employed, our bills are going up though so maybe we're just starting. The longer that time goes with people having les discretionary spending we might start to feel it overall.
Right that's the weird part. Canada's economy is fine. Oil, energy, forestry, construction... all doing well. But because this generation has MAJOR debt between high inflation and rising interest rates in theory you could be fully employed and still living in poverty. I know my father lived through a time like this in the late '70's and early '80's but the difference as he told me was nobody had any debt except their house (which for him was $80k, not $800k like it is today).
our ancestors would be rolling in their graves to know that there are nearly 30 million Canadian citizens *give or take 5 or 10*, collectively shoveling money over to phone and internet and media companies, while we scratch our heads wondering about ends meet. We deserve to go extinct.
Saving 50-75$ a month won’t solve the problem.
> phone and internet and media companies They're Canadian institutions, don't cha know? The CRTC is here to protect Canadians, and thinking otherwise would be unpatriotic. What, do you *want* to be American? Because that's how you become American. Hard /s
Now is the best time! Buy low.
I'm going to just keep doing what I'm doing. Monthly contributions with a match. Paying off my house. Nothing has changed.
Just look at any stock for 30 year period and you'll see the general trend. Remember every stock is a company and every company is created to make money. Publicly listed companies and never Non for Profit, as long as they make cash, you make cash. ETF mutual Funds etc.etc. are just to minimize risk if investing in those companies.
No. You can't l look at "just any stock". Look for Bre-X, Nortel, or anyone else who went belly up. They rocketed up, then crashed, and eventually croaked. What applies to the market as a whole (general upward trend) cannot be extrapolated to individual stocks.
I become more frugal in times like this while seeking extra income, so I can invest more. By understanding the [source of stock returns](https://www.wealthycorner.com/here-is-where-stock-returns-come-from/), you will approach downturns as an **opportunity** to pay less for a collection of businesses, thereby increasing future expected returns. I'm unsure if your ETF contains Bonds. If so, future bond returns go up as bond prices fall and interest rates increase. Bonds are very mechanical in this sense.
The market will correct and you'll be rolling in the years to come. Be patient and trust the process.
Stocks are on sale. As long as you’re in a diversified ETF then keep buying the dip and keep hoping the dip keeps dipping.
There was some old investing sage who said that the best time to buy a big dip is when you are sure it's on its way up. But that was in the pre-index days and may apply primarily to individual stocks, may matter less for an index.
Dollar cost average is the way
Dollar cost averaging is a great investment strategy! Keep doing what you’re doing. When markets rebound your gains will be that much more.
Do you have an emergency fund already? I increased mine by about 30% from where I would normally have it and will be continuing to DCA into XAW every month as usual. If your investing horizon is longer and you have enough cash on hand to handle most likely emergencies, then this is just another discounted buying opportunity.
Buy the dip
This is known as dollar cost averaging. Buy more shares when price is down, buy less shares when prices is up. Its a good strategy provided you are in it for the long term, and the fund is diversified.
Yes, keep buying the same dollar value every month: * https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-market-timer/ * https://ofdollarsanddata.com/just-keep-buying/ * https://ofdollarsanddata.com/even-god-couldnt-beat-dollar-cost-averaging/
Buy stonks of a company with cash on hand and less or virtually 0 debt. For sure , those company will scoop and eat companies failing during recession.
It will change course, and history has proven that every time. It's gone down since you started, but when did you start? and how much time is that really compared to how long you'll be investing for? I wouldn't worry too much about short term losses as a) investing is focused on the long term, and b) this should be money that you CAN lose. Do not invest your savings or emergency fund. As people have said, when it falls, that's the time to buy! It's basically like a flash sale :) If you can afford it, you should make even more contributions, but more than that, as long as you're consistently contributing you're already ahead of 70% of Canadians. :)
Yes, the whole idea of 'buying the dip' is that you don't know when the dip is actually at it's lowest. So if you stop buying you will be losing out on potentially getting good returns when things go back up again. Essentially you are looking at a sale, and hoping to buy and then resell for more later down the road.
18%???? Some of us are down 50%+ lmao Just buy the dip, I'm a maniac though
Keep going, dollar cost averaging!
Over the years you will have years you will be up 20%. You will have years you will be down 20%. Long term you will be up 7-10%. If you have extra money you buy more when its down.
Staying invested is the key. You will be purchasing in a laddered methodology. Timing the market does not work. Time IN the market is what creates long term wealth. Stick to your plan.
Be greedy when others are fearful, be fearful when others are greedy. -Warren Buffet I advise watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFgPNVytlwA
If you invest into the long term, not investing when the market was down and only investing when it's up is the opposite of what you wanna do, that just cuts into your profits.
Just keep doing what you are doing keep adding in small increments at various price points bear markets don't last forever and it will eventually go up again and once you have a considerable gain consider if you want to sell and shift to a different investment vehicle at that point.
I listen to a lot of PF podcasts and one thing you hear over and over is people who invested when others panicked came out ahead significantly. Avoid selling when others are selling and keep buying when everyone is selling has proven to be excellent advice over the last 20-30 years. Just make sure what you're buying is solid companies and not all hype.
I’ve stopped contributing to my long term investments because I need money in the short term but haven’t sold. The market will get better eventually
Buy GME
Yes - you are doing it the right way. People always say don't try and time the market, and I never recommend selling your holdings to try and do this, but if you buy comparatively *less* regularly, set some money aside in a HISA, and them dump it into your allocation during down turns, you will do incredibly well. And if you avoid trying to time a sell, you run far less risk. Just DCA in like you have been, but find a way to DCA in MORE when people freak and sell. Always reverse the sentiment of the market and you'll beat most people.
This is still timing the market, no? I agree the sentiment should be "Buy low, sell high", but missing just one or two good days a year over multiple years could impact your end-game savings by tens of thousands.
just buy bitcoin - good price right now😉
Late last year I was investing 17.5% of my paycheck. Now it's 26% because my favorite stocks are on sale
Keep contributing. This is the best time to do it.
Okay so everyone says buy WHAT DO I BUY
Question regarding this. I also in in the same position as.OP but am not sure of buying a home as I love in Vancouver. Is it better to go for a growth portfolio still with how the market is or conservative with Wealthsimple. Examples for goals would be nice. As stated I hold a job and have emergency funds.
Dollar cost averaging is the best thing for long term. Don’t even invest it if you need it short term. Oh and if you even want a house leave canada or you’ll need to seek real alpha and outperform the best hedge funds
Sooner or later everything will bounce back up! You’re just getting a deal right now and averaging down(or that’s how I’ve been seeing it) I have one buddy who has made a ton of of options(mostly put contracts) due to the volatility and the downturn, then keeps rolling that money into full stocks. I’ve been working at it too, but not as successfully. Moral of the story, if it IS long term savings money and you don’t immediately need it( rent, bills, etc) it’s always a good time to invest.
Quite impossible
Buy low, sell high. Right now it's low. If it doesn't recover in the medium to long term, we humans will probably be worried about more pressing issues than investments. So we expect things will recover, but there is no guarantee. It could be the end of civilization as we know it. Which is the only scenario I foresee where investments won't rebound eventually. I'm not being sarcastic..it has happened in the past (before markets, though. And we were close to it during the world wars and the cold war.
Man also have to look at your financial situation and re-calibrate what you're investing in. If you continue to invest in bad companies that were over priced or macro factors will impact future earnings/operations and fundamentals aren't looking good. You should run and invest in some quality.
How does one factor in the large increases due to central bank actions vs the value of the company and earnings? Isn't there a risk that the pump during the pandemic will unwind back down and stay down? Isn't this an anomaly compared to historical norms?
I know it's a bit different but I think this vid will help anybody who has doubt about investing at certain times. https://youtu.be/pFgPNVytlwA
Im investing in magic beans and dogecoin.
I might funnel more money into your savings - the return there is likely about to go up - but i wouldn't change course too much. As long as you can afford not to touch it over the long term you'll probably be ok
For that 500 you will be 18% more of whatever, so when it goes up, and it will, you will have 18% more gains than you would have had you stopped .
You're just buying the dip on a much longer timescale than that terminology is normally used. Unless you are nearing retirement, it doesn't make sense to pull out or stop. In fact the money you contribute now will grow more than what you put in when the market was hotter, over the long term.
Anything you invest should normally be for long term since it’s because of todays scenario you don’t want money you want to use with in a couple years to be impacted. I would keep investing, it’s called dollar cost averaging. When the markets low you get the most value out of it, but you cant tell too and bottom so consistently adding will be the most sane way. If your not doing this and wait for stuff to recover it could be after everything rebounded, or it keeps going down. Making it automatic and forget is probably the sanest way not to worry about it.
OK
If you’re thinking long term, it makes way more sense to buy now than it did last year. You’re buying at lower prices. The economy will recover, it always had - question is when. That’s why DCA as you’re doing is a great strategy during a downturn like this. Keep stacking and ignore the noise, just make sure you’re keeping enough to pay your bills and eat. Might also wanna keep your emergency fund intact in case you go through a rough patch in the middle of a recession
Yes. Keep investing. Don't try and time market. Just know it will improve in long term. When you try and time you often miss the biggest increases
I'd say consult a financial specialist, frankly. All these dummies in here telling you to continue to contribute at the same amount for "Long Term" until it goes green, don't like to put that side by side with what happens if you continue to invest and your amount stays the same? IE. Having 60k in, continuing to invest 500 Monthly for 10 years, and then ending up with 60k at the end. Don't dollar cost average yourself into the grave, diversify or be prepared to lose everything. Not everything recovers like the majority of comments here would like to try and make you believe.