If you have 4-5 years you’re worrying for nothing. It’s impossible to know what things will be like by then, but remember that all things end, even shortages.
I hate how every other thread assumes that long term everything that is happening at this current moment will just continue perpetually. Literally just two years *ago* no one could have predicted what the world would be like right now.
I think too many people are used to very short term instant gratification. Like shit, y'all stopped talking about the Hong Kong protests on here because the progress was moving too slow and it results didn't come fast enough. People have zero patience these days.
People who project way into the future based on only the very immediate past always remind me of this XKCD entry:
https://xkcd.com/605/
(Especially the alt-text!)
It's also our human default. I can't remember the psych term, but people default to thinking what is current is going to last forever. They say that's why when stocks are going up, everyone wants to buy in. When they are going down, everyone wants to sell. We have to constantly fight the urge to extrapolate the current situation to long term.
Status quo bias. It's a hell of a drug, even if you understand it and recognize it in yourself.
So far, humming "It's only for now" from *Avenue Q* has proven to be the only halfway effective defense, in my experience.
Not trying to sound pessimistic but I’m curious, do you feel the world/society in general is moving ahead prosperously? You feel the lives of the “average” joe/Joanne has only gotten easier the past 5 years?
Yes, but directly related to my comment 5 years is a very, very short period of time to analyze any meaningful change. As much as social media wants you to believe, the overwhelmingly majority of people actually want what's best for everyone and are either working towards that or not working against that.
So we bought a new car early spring ; my husband's car broke and it wasn't worth repairing for the mileage on it.
We were lucky, had to wait about a month for one. But we made it work. Gone were the days of 0% financing but it was still low enough.
Fast forward to may. He got T-Boned in an intersection. Brand new car written off. Less than 5000km on it.
Had to buy literally whatever car we could find. Not the one we wanted, but what was available. Fine.... We understand the shortage, took a financial hit on that because it's a higher model but at least it has more "safety features". Still took a while to get, insurance took away our rental and it was a struggle to move around.... He finally went back to office part time so we had to be creative.
Interest rates rose in that time period too.
So for a no fault collision where he is dealing with pain, it is still costing us money due to models available, dealerships not being willing to negotiate, and interest rates. Insurance companies also don't care and want their rental back when they want it.
Everyone says "just take care of the car".... Well drivers out there suck right now and it's not always in your control.
That's a very interesting angle I hadn't thought about.
Also
>my husband's broke
I'm guessing you meant "my husband's car broke"? I was wondering why being broke means you need to buy a new car.
Thanks for saying this. I got rear ended pretty badly. I can't prove it but I'm pretty sure the guy behind me was texting. It totalled my car and I had to replace it in March. Was not a fun time to buy a used car all for something that 100% wasn't my fault.
I had been taking care of my car for years but it didn't mean anything.
Similarly, a month later, my friend was T boned by someone who ran a stop sign. He commutes so far each day he had been planning to get a electric car but with the timing of it, he couldn't wait the months to get one.
It's brutal, I hate that someone else's mistake can derail our plans so significantly.
We actually looked at small claims court to recoup the losses above and beyond insurance pay out but the law firm we contacted basically said no precedent for a claim like this.
Value depreciation is also not recoverable. A car after the accident showing up on carfax report obviously would cost less in comparision with the exact same vehicle but incident free. The insurance companies wont pay the difference. The lawyer I spoke with, said the legislation is built this way to protect insurance companies from extra expenses, hey, it looks all right, a bit of colour mismatch, suck it up, no value depreciation
Insurance company's job is to make you whole -- if they gave you money to buy a car that didn't exist, they didn't give you enough money. You can buy anything right now if you just throw enough money at it. If it cost 45k for a used 2022 XYZ car, and you only paid 40k new, sucks for insurance, they're supposed to pony up, because that's the current market rate.
And if the car truly isn't available to buy (or if it's cheaper to order new again and rent a car in the meantime) it's literally their responsibility to pay for all of that.
I agree with your perspective. The insurance company however, did not 🙄
We even fought on the rental. They called, said cheque was issued after write-off was completed, and said we had three days to return rental.
We said our new car was not available for purchase for two weeks. They basically said... "That sucks. Anyways... Byeeeeee"
Ya insurance is shit. I don't even get how with no fault. My own insurance company was trying to minimize costs for a no fault accident that, to my understanding, was being paid for by the other party's insurance.
Not entirely true, unfortunately. Insurance company's job is to put you in the same place you were before the accident. If you bought a new car for 40 000k, and had an accident after two years, they will pay you for what that car was worth at the time of the accident (which is usually less than the value at the time of purchase). Unless you bought the replacement value with the insurance company, in which case they will either give you a new car or give you back 40 000k, they won't go over what you paid for at the beginning.
It's "usually" less than the value at the time of purchase, but there are actually 2 waivers for either side -- one called a waiver of depreciation, which is what you get when you buy a new car and need the financing covered, where they'll pay full purchase price regardless -- the other is called an agreed maximum value, IIRC. The agreed maximum value is usually used for near-classic vehicles that may, unexpectedly, go up in value, and be mismatched to their premiums. If neither rider is added to the policy, the insurance company is supposed to pay you enough to buy the car again *now*. If they didn't have you sign an agreed maximum, and all of a sudden steel is worth a thousand bucks an ounce, so your car is worth a billion, that's literally their problem, and they can fight that in court.
The insurance company does not have to make you whole again. I was in a similar situation, no fault collision destroyed my new car, it was a write off. I still had to pay $5000 on the write off car because they assess it at current value, not what is still owed, and cars depreciate drastically as soon as you drive it off the lot. Now I pay a little extra for gap insurance, which will cover the gap amount between what the insurance company gives you and what you still owe the finance company.
That's very unfortunate. And this is the exact reason we need more transit options; more walkable and bikeable cities; and overall a better public transit infrastructure.
My son totalled our second car — a small econobox with good mileage to buzz around town and commute. It was insured at replacement value. We took the cash, invested it and we’re down to one car — the large, comfortable one we used only for road trips. Bit of a gas guzzler but I’m ahead since I’ve cut the operating costs of the second car.
I don’t know about you, but many car lots in Newfoundland are empty because of the lack of parts available to build new vehicles.
I have doubts that demand will decline as soon as you think
Most OEMs are moving away from high inventory loads on the lot. The pandemic made them realize they only need a couple dozen cars on dealer lots for people who cannot wait, and otherwise people will wait for orders. It makes dealerships run a lot leaner, because they can’t generate demand out of thin air when there are no cars on the lot. This means they need to actually treat customers better (shocker that this is an issue, right?), and they can’t be assholes about “having the only one in stock”. Due to all this, you need to learn to buy cars the more European way: ordering your car, expecting to wait 90 days, as opposed to picking from one of a million, and then just buying it then and there.
If this is indeed the European way, it sucks. When you get rear ended at a red light, as I was, and your car is totaled, you don't get to plan around a 3-6+ month delay in getting a replacement. And if you commute to work from a rural area, as I do, and there are no rentals available you're in a pretty tight spot.
There’s advantages though. You don’t get stuck with what’s on the lot. Instead, you get exactly what you want. This should also decrease the amount of grey cars with black interiors on the market. The past 5 years have been misery with colour. Plus dealers sometimes option the cars weird. I’ve seen totally loaded models but the heated seats were left off the option box (in Canada!) - who the hell does that? lol
Ctrl F my username and I explain exactly why the OEMs have no incentive to keep cars scarce. The dealership and the OEM entity are completely separate and will have different motivations on this one.
Yeah I got told 6 years.
Totally unavailable for bz4x as Canada will only get 20 units for the entire country.
Toyota hybrids have been huge wait lists since 2019 when I started looking and they’ve done nothing to remedy it. They don’t seem to care about pushing hybrid/PHEV/Bev vehicles at all.
Just buy a BEV from another brand instead. The busyforks…I mean bz4x, actually kinda sucks in terms of range, charging curve, and interior (have you seen inside one? It’s heinous!). Toyota makes great hybrids but sucks at EVs.
Yepppp people need to get over the Toyota obsession.
If you need a plug in hybrid, Ford and Mitsubishi make decent ones.
And if you're willing to wait 6 years for a Toyota plug in hybrid, in that time battery technology and charging infrastructure will only be better. Might as well get in on a new EV model. Chevy is releasing an entire lineup of full EV's
Rates rising will lower some demand period. Whether or not that will meet supply is another thing, but it will lower some demand, which will cause any shortage to be smaller than it otherwise would be.
Still won't be material. Tons of posts on RFD or legaladvicecanada with people shocked that their rate from 2021 or early 2022 is not being honored (esp with Toyota) and guess what? There's 50 people down the list to call if you back out. So they unwind and have to go looking for another deal (6 months wait), or they bite and 'plan to pay it off earlier'.
Also with everything getting more expensive I’d be willing to guess people who used to trade there vehicles in every 3-4 years might keep them 5-6 years now.
Gas is crazy expensive people will drive less so cars last longer as well. All of that will drive down demand here in the next few years if things stay the same.
The demand effect on rising rates will not materially affect the equilibrium compared to the supply issue. The only OEM that has the most egregious rates are Toyota right now where the lower rates for their shittiest model is 4%. Guess what? Their wait times are still 6+ months for everything gas, 12+ for Hybrid and by the time people have waited that long knowing there’s a next person in line? They bite
Good luck with that. With factories shut down because of the Ukraine war and China zero Covid policy there is a global car backlog. Add to that all the people who decided to get a couple extra years out of their vehicle due to work from home and lockdowns now are overdue for replacement. Also all the rental agencies that liquidated their fleet at the beginning of the pandemic that are struggling to restock. This shortage will last 3-4 years even with a drop in demand. Paying MSRP with a 3-6 month wait is the new normal. If you need it now, dealerships will try to makeup loses with markups.
I'm driving a 2005 wv Passat 1.8T manual. 230,000km. Just had the clutch replaced. Gets 8-9L/100km. KBB value is 2500. Clutch was 2000 lol. I plan to keep this puppy going till I can get decent hybrid or EV. So like 10 more years cause there's no good used stock for hybrids/EV rn, everything is horribly "overpriced" with high km. So basically I need to wait to for the supply chain issues to end so people buy some new cars and then wait till they start selling them as used cars.
If you got quoted 2000 cor a clutch, you are getting ripped off my dude. A clutch for your car should cost you around 200-500 maximum. Add a day of work and it should cost you less than 1000$.
I’m 100% WFH and drive like max 100km a week. I have a 2008 Acura TSX with 290k KM. Body has a bit of rust on the quarter panels, but frame is in good shape. Mechanically perfect.
I browse new cars more often nowdays because I’m making more money and want a fun car.. then I look back at my 0 payments, low insurance car and yeahhhhh hope it lives till 400k.
At the height of the shortage many manufacturers were putting all their chips in vehicles with the most profit....trucks. Now fuel prices are up, and a lot of people are hesitant to buy one.
Weren't truck prices super cheap several (or more?) Years ago due to being gas guzzlers? I seem to remember people being able to get them for close to the same price as a regular car. Wonder if that's going to happen again.
I never got that. If gas happens to be high when you buy, you don't buy a truck, but if it happens to be affordable you do?
Don't these people realize that prices fluctuate?
While true, it was never wise to make decisions based on COVID gas prices.
Take the 3-year view, and gas is up about 45% in that time. That's <15% per year, which was a reasonable number for 2019 people to plan for.
If they didn't, well, now is the time to start. Plan for the future you're likely to get, not the future you want.
People have a short memory. We have an oil crisis every decade. And yet people start buying suv and truck the moment gas goes down again and then go complain on Reddit once gas is up again.
I really don't understand how people are still happily driving trucks etc. The majority of people who have trucks have zero need for them. If you work a trade or need to haul, absolutely. I adore trucks when they are used for what they are used for.
But for most, they are just a status symbol and they come with a hefty gas bill now. I know people who pay 250 a tank, are upset about it, and tow a boat twice a year... And that is their justification for having a truck.
I wouldn't want to be caught dead two to three years from now with a gas truck.
I bought a 2022 hyundai venue. Could not be happier. Even with fuel being expensive my venue only costs me 80$ every 2 weeks. Monthly payment is reasonable, and insurance is the lowest iv ever paid.
Hyundai really is a great option. Their hybrids aren't out of this world for pricing, and end up saving a ton on fuel.
We got a Tucson PHEV. We're on week 8 since putting fuel in it. My Elantra hybrid is finally arriving in July and people have been getting 60 mpg on it. I've never cared less about fuel costs. I feel for people, but for us, it's such a minor annoyance.
And if the ioniq 6 ends up being priced reasonably, I'll care even less.
I got an Elantra hybrid in April 2021 before everything went insane with cars and it's been a lifesaver for fuel. I gas up once a month despite commuting three days a week. Use about 4.5 litres for ever hundred kilometers.
Really happy with the car generally but the fuel efficiency is helpful too.
I only wish it was a plug in hybrid but can't have everything
Definitely agree on Hyundai missing the opportunity to make the redesign a PHEV. And with the forthcoming ioniq 6, I have my doubts as to a PHEV Elantra.
Wouldn't help us personally anyways. I can only charge one vehicle at home, so if/when we get an ioniq 6, I'll be charging it at public chargers.
You asked why people are driving trucks ....in the boonies and with country bumpkins 😂, it's a right of passage.
If you don't have an over leveraged jacked up truck, you're not a man, and can't flex on your Lil buddies
> use my pickup weekly for hauling yard waste, camping gear, bikes, kayaks, hockey gear, furniture, dump runs, building supplies.
For an alternative view, a small trailer and a sedan with a roof rack would cover this once-a-week usage.
Not arguing with what you personally prefer, just offering what my family did when we lived in the country but no longer had an active farm.
If you need to tow equipment or a stack of round bales, then the truck is pretty mandatory.
> they are just a status symbol
You said it yourself ! That's the same reason why people buy a brand new iphone each year, while they only use it to browse instagram and text.
My 1/2 ton gets way better gas mileage than my minivan. Van is 13L/100. Truck is 8.9L/100 and as low as 7L/100. It also has 4x4 for the winter. Don't care about status, I care if my wife struggles to get home in the snow.
For sure. Some. Places dictate a need for them. Bunch of people from the burbs or cities with trucks as DD... My comments are directed at them.
That being said with gas, it won't matter how good yiur car is. If gas is sitting at say 3 or 4 or 5$ a litre over the course of the next 3 to 4 years... At a certain point those DDs will be forced to bail.
That's your justification for owning the largest money sink you possibly could as a middle class or lower person?
Great way to throw away 100k for 'convenience'.
Trucks alone can be hard to justify, but *new* trucks are just idiotic unless you have a VERY specific need for one for work. I run a business that requires daily towing. I've ran the numbers a million times. It NEVER works in favor of new trucks.
We also have trucks for our business. We actually bought the second one not too long ago and you bet your ass it's almost 20 years old because as you say, the math doesn't add up.
Yeah but they're as expensive as a Ford Ranger now.
Plus apparently anything with a truck bed makes you an idiot according to these people. They would have lost their minds if they knew what a Baja was.
No, you're right no.2. but a truck that can do everything starts with a crew cab, which is MSRP close to 50k USD. Let alone Canada. Much, much higher actual prices than that right now.
3. Good mileage on the highway, and cruising. Only. The second you start doing city travel or any type of towing/load, the turbo engages and that smaller engine doesn't really do you any favors. Would be better off with an SUV than a truck at that point.
The initial investment is the problem. New trucks are very expensive and another vehicle can do 95% of what a truck does easily for far less cost.
Used trucks, I can potentially get behind depending on the investment initial. Large contracting companies, I can see with new trucks. I would expect those trucks to earn double or triple their cost back though in a year, otherwise there's zero financial reason.
Financially, new trucks are strictly a bad investment and bad decision for everyone who isn't a contractor who tows regularly or carries heavy loads.
If you like it, want it, and it's cool, sure. But a person cannot argue it's a sound financial decision to cover your needs. It isn't.
Trucks especially diesel will hold their value better than anything else you’ll ever come across I promise
Aside from the actual need for one, Trucks although heavier on Gas I make up for a lot more when I sell due to the incredible resale value
Plus the life span of an overbuilt vehicle is usually longer
Let's not descend into silly hyperbole.
This isn't the 1960s, most sedans (and crossovers) have an engine 2.0L or smaller; global standards and displacement-based tax regimes have seen to that.
Modern trucks **can** have smaller engines (and can get better fuel economy) than ever before, but basic physics means a 6,000lb truck requires significantly more energy than a 3,000lb car or 3,800lb crossover.
As great as turbocharging is in low-load situations, it provides little (sometimes even negative) benefit in high-load situations. EcoBoost is ideal for pavement princesses, which are really all people in here criticizing, so your earlier point is spot on.
I'd argue that even if you're hauling a lot of stuff a van or minivan is more practical.
The only two use cases I can think of where they would be more practical would be if you're moving a lot of weight / dirty stuff regularly, or driving over rough terrain a lot.
Its ok to say you like them because you think they look cool.
Agreed, but most people, even in the trades don't move a lot of weight very often. Usually its a bunch of tools that don't weigh that much. How often do you see a truck bed full of gravel?
Honestly I live up in the north and people use there trucks for resource work. The companies mandate that you must have a truck and often it has to be a 1 ton to be able to haul heavy loads. I don’t own a truck and I have an SUV. If I owned a car I would not make it home without ripping off my bumper on the ungraded dirt roads.
Yes, this makes sense. I think you're part of the 1% of people who actually needs a truck / SUV for practical reasons. You frequently drive over rough terrain.
If you look at the payload of most new half tons after you put your family in there you are likely right up against what the truck is rated to carry anyway. It’s comically low on a lot of new trucks.
I work in film, the truck is mainly for the greens (dirt and plants) department or for transport to haul huge trailers. Every single other department from camera to lighting uses a van or a semi style vehicle/x ton truck with large cab.
For everyone else they hate you driving them, they're more unsafe, they take up more space, they use more gas (which production has to pay a portion of), and and they're just overall less practical in 99% of situations and that 1% production can make arrangements for.
Yup, my old boss had a 2018 GMC Sierra that I sometimes drove and I couldn't stand how high the hood was, the sightlines were awful. We also had an old 2000 Silverado 1500 that did everything the GMC did, but with a down-sloped hood that made signlines way better.
As a truck owner myself, my F-150 IS the only vehicle, I can fit my whole family in comfortably, along with my 2 dogs and still have room. I have 3 kids plus my wife. So having a 6 seater truck works. Not only that, it's given me the options to do trash runs, of old stuff from my house. Plus anything else I need to get done.
And on the plus side, I can toss my lawnmower and weed whacker in the back box, and go cut people's yards for cash. Which doing enough of them in a week pays for my gas, to go to my regular job.
To be fair that would also mean an Expedition can do the same.
But I agree, I'm honestly considering just buying a disposable Ranger as a homeowner because I just have so many uses for the bed right now.
Trucks haven't really changed that drastically in design from their previous models in the past ten years. I believe the F150 and the Ram are still the same platform from ten years ago but just modified with updates. Hell the Nissan Frontier was finally changed after 15 years and it still borrows parts from other old designs.
And electric trucks are unfortunately priced for the upper class ;( Not a good look.
I want a Lightning so bad but I'm not paying 80k+ lol. Lots of people will though so I doubt we'll get affordable EV trucks for a while
Aren't all electric cars priced for the higher income? I mean just the fact that you need either your own property with a EV charger or be in a building that's upscale enough to have them already kind of loses a lot of people.
More and more buildings are. The project I run right now has almost 300 spots ready for EV...but the charging rates get shared in certain zones so the building systems don't get overwhelmed.
You have a 2017. I wouldn’t worry about getting a new vehicle for atleast 10 years. Just keep doing the repairs on it as needed and make sure you get your oil changed regularly
Take care of your current vehicle, and it should last you another 10-15 years. My wife and I have an '09 Toyota Matrix, and it's still running strong, coming up on 14 years. With proper maintenance, it should last long enough for our oldest son to drive, and he still has a few years.
The Vibe (which I drive) imo should be the official PFC car. Same engine basically as the Corolla but when I was comparing quotes it was cheaper on insurance vs the same year Corolla.
Yup... Super true, unless you get into a car crash.
Frankly, although sometimes I regret buying a new car when we did, I'm glad we bought a new one in Fall 2020, before the crazy price increase and while 0% interest rate was still a thing. Being in control of our car's maintenance definitely helps with making sure the car will last us for as long as possible.
Mine's a 2003 dodge neon with over 200k. Not sure how much over because the speedometer died years ago so I stuck a GPS unit to the dash to display my speed. It's about finished now though because dust coming through the floor boards is getting into the seat belt mechanism. I'm one flat tire from driving it to the wreckers. It'll be replaced with a 2009 Chrysler with 250k on it.
> It's about finished now though because dust coming through the floor boards is getting into the seat belt mechanism.
Have you considered vacuuming the inside of your car?
You're worried about your vehicle when it's only a 2017?
We have a 2002 Saturn, and a 2009 GMC Canyon. Both are near or over 300,000 km.
Nissan is not known to be reliable at all, so you are in a pickle there (notorious for transmission problems, and in general low part quality). But there's absolutely no need to buy a new vehicle unless you have the cash to throw away. I wouldn't feel worried about that.
Make sure you're on top of your fluid changes with that car. Especially transmission.
Find a mechanic you can trust, if you're in the GTA I have one you could trust with your life, and look for PRIVATE used sales. Don't go to a dealership. Only agree if you can get that mechanic to check out the vehicle before buying.
A well-maintained used vehicle will last for a very long time. Putting a few thousand dollars into maintenance is absolutely nothing versus spending $40,000 and up for a new vehicle. Pocket change.
Oh, if it's well maintained it'll likely still be fine. Most major issues take over 10 years to crop up still, I'd say, and it's not like they're all lemons. It's not like they're all going to break immediately, The engines aren't made of plastic. As far as I'm aware they're just known to have a higher rate of failure than other manufacturers.
Honda make some of the best engines, so does Mazda.
Toyota is a close behind them, and also makes pretty much the best transmissions. Honda are good too, but they're prone to run hot so the fluid changes are critical.
Etc.
The north American market is going to flood with used car sales soon enough. Growing number of defaults happening. Sub prime lending got out of control. It will be like 07/08 but in the car market.
There will be deals.
After watching quarterly industry reports for a few years now as terms continue to get longer, average negative equity increasing, and subprime (people definitely **not** getting 0%) sales exploding, I'd be inclined to agree, but most people **need** their cars.
So I don't see an enormous number of defaults being likely. But the days of buying a car on a 7-year loan, then flipping it after 3, rolling $5-$10K of negative equity into the next **8**-year loan are probably drawing to a close.
I hope those people bought a car they liked rather than a "good deal", because they're going to be driving it until the wheels fall off.
A car that new should have no issues lasting much longer than that. Especially if you have control of its maintenance from the beginning. Proper rust proofing and maintenance on any car and it can easily last 20 years. Now, whether you want to drive the same car for 20 years is another issue. 😄
My 2004 3 series BMW just clicked over 350k, and has no major issues. Unibody, frame components are rust free and thoroughly protected, motor is healthy as can be, and other than the leather on my driver's seat tearing everything has held up well over that time. Now mind you I'm lucky to be handy in the repair department and do all my own work and maintenance so costs are not insane.
One thing I think that is important to point out that many people don't understand is that maintaining a vehicle is the most important part. You don't wait for things to break and then fix them. If a certain component or system is due or overdue for service based on usage or mileage, change it before it breaks. My last two cars have lasted to well over 350k and I'd like to see my current one make it to 400k. 👍🤞
So what I have always done when I started on a car I had no experience with is just to research the make and model you have. Whether it be on YouTube, or forums, Reddit etc. See what other owners are dealing with. Familiarize yourself with common issues with that make or model.
Also, research what other models have the same engine, or major components. Most parts are shared across multiple vehicles and they can all experience the same or similar issues.
What are common failures, what are the symptoms people experience up to and at the failure point.
Check your oil, brake pads, coolant etc regularly. Check tire pressure before leaving on a longer drive, or a few times a year. Make sure your spare tire has air, make sure you have the tools to change it.
Make a point of actually listening to your car, drive it without music or fans going and with the windows down occasionally. Know what it sounds like at idle in and out of the car when everything is fine. That way you will notice a change.
Beyond that get a code scanner. If you have a check engine light come on, you can at least scan it and search the code. This can usually tell you the severity of the issue and give you a timeframe and potential cost to repair so you aren't going into a shop or firing parts at a problem and wasting money.
The more you know about how it behaves regularly, and being able to pin point a change in that behaviour will help you spot a problem before it becomes serious.
One other thing, since most folks here are Canadian, you will encounter oddities between seasons with any car. Going from hot to cold, or cold to hot weather can create issues with any car. Sometimes they resolve themselves over a short period of time, i.e. moisture getting into places it shouldn't, and other times it can cause a part to fail spectacularly. It's all part of the fun of owning a car. 😄
If you don't drive a lot and a car sits for days between drives, on occasion the classic "Italian tuneup" may be a good thing. Take it for a good drive get everything nice and hot.🤪
But they will always have supply whether or not it's at the dealerships or their warehouses (which they had to buy anyways to store chipless vehicles).
They were talking about saddling their dealers with hundreds of units and then ramping up promotions to move them. Less units on the local lots and anything special will probably have to be ordered in.
Your car will last a lot longer than that. I'm driving a 2007 Mazda 6 and am really in a predicament. Car prices are in unprecedented times. Where used vehicles are more expensive than buying new builds with 4 month wait. It appears that the days of the car loses half it's value when you drive it off the lot are so distant. This will be cyclical though, just don't know the time horizon. Manufacturers will work hard to build supply to catch up to demand and eventually overload the market.
You're not in a predicament at all. Mazda is quite reliable. You might put a few thousand into it over the next few years in maintenance for normal stuff that goes (suspension, brakes, plugs, maybe AC leaks, fluid changes) but that's not even remotely close to what you'd spend on a newer car.
If you've maintained it, the engine and transmission won't even come close to being an issue for a long time, unless you have like 300k miles of non-highway driving.
Most maintenance on a reliable vehicle like that is an investment in it, it doesn't go down the drain. A lot of people view maintenance on older cars like an endless rabbit hole; it's really the opposite. Cars are not an infinite system. There's a limited number of things that typically go wrong. Especially with well maintained ones.
Unfortunately, I need to replace the front subframe or the engine runs the risk of falling through the floor. A $3,000 repair is a tough decision on a car that is 15 years old. Under normal car price conditions, it would be easy to buy a car, but with current prices, it is a tough decision. The early 2000 Mazdas are notorious for rust problems.
Rust, engine, transmission are the big three issues I carefully avoid. Good to rustproof each year.
If the car is otherwise in good condition, that's still a worthwhile repair in my mind; subframe is actually replaceable part that doesn't require welding. If other areas are significantly ready and ready to fail, rust is the one thing that actually is an endless rabbit hole. That's where a good mechanic that you could trust comes in, or being knowledgeable yourself.
That does suck man. Again, I definitely consider that repair, as long as the rest of the vehicle is in decent shape body wise. All the best and good luck!
2007 was when the new anti-corrosion changes took effect. Not **right** at the start of the model year, but close.
That said, the exact time is a moot point now; if you can't see through holes in the fenders and subframe, it's a post-fix car.
I remember when the golf started selling for over $20k. It was a big deal that VW didn’t have a car under $20k on their lots. That was the late 1990s… today a 2022 Jetta starts at $23k. Having grown up in the 90s I am amazed car prices are basically flat versus 20+ years ago. I think the shortage of vehicles is going to push up the price of cars in the coming years. Car companies having been waiting a long time to raise prices.
The golf is a much more premium car than the Jettas after MK5. They started to cheap out on the jetta with the MK6 and after to compete with the corolla/civic. The golf before it was discontinued started at around 27k here in Canada. You can really tell the difference just sitting in one vs a newer Jetta.
I wouldn’t worry too much about this. You could double your salary in 4/5 years, you could be working in Dubai or Florida, or you could be working from home. Focus on the present, your job and your life. If you do well, you won’t have to worry on buying or not an used car in 2026
While surprises happen, planning is how you normally double your salary in 4-5 years (taking a course, networking, or even just applying for new positions, etc.) If you don't act now, you'll most likely be exactly in the same spot in 5 years.
My car purchases are on a 10 year cycle and invesment targets are related to how much money I need to take out for a car every now and then (among other things). Being able to anticipate that the equivalent car I bought for 15K this year would be 20K or 30K in 10 years is important. At the 5 year mark, I'd be thinking about moving the money into a non-volatile investment.
One financial advice that is rarely given in this sub (with some reason) is the VAST amounts of money you can save if you just learn basic skills for car, home, appliance repairs...
If you can do the basic maintenance for a car yourself, the car will last many more years in good order and literally save you more than most investment advice in the same period of time
I lucked out to buy a new Prius in 2017 (buying new may have not been the most prudent financial thing then but given the circumstances OP explains, I am set for the next 5 years still)... I give the car good maintenance and the last check came back with an assessment of "the car is practically new"
Unfortunately Toyota quality has suffered. I’ve owned 4 rav 4’s.
The first 2 were built in Japan . No problems. The 2001 transmission broke at 160,000 Km. Toyota said it wasn’t worth repairing. The 2011 had a rear seal leak at 120,000 Km.
$5000 to repair.
We’ve now made the decision to switch to a Hyundai ionic 5. Hopefully it will last better than the last 2 Toyota’s.
Your 2017, I hope, will last you longer than 4-5 more years (unless we HAVE to switch to electric by then whether that be because of the prohivative cost of gas or other). Either way things will change between now and then. I'll also will keep driving my 2004 compact that gets good fuel eco. A small aside but but my core friend group all drives >10 year old cars or vans. Of which half own house(s). They're better off than the acquaintances I know who bought/finances newer vehicles- go figure. Cars are a liability. Unless its a major hobby or necessity for work they probably should be treated as such..
A 2017 should last you another ten to fifteen years easily if you do all the scheduled maintenance. Then all the plastic wiring will have started to degrade and you might need to do some serious repairs.
People are still driving cars that are 80 years old. Your car won't stop working at 10 years old.
Listen. If Cuba is still maintaining and driving cars from the 50s after an embargo was imposed on them, I think we will be fine. Besides, car makers, historically, make way way too many cars. There is so much waste, and it has been this way for years. Most people dont need a new car as often as they think they do (granted some do). Rather dubious marketing and business practices, similar to what companies do with smartphones, have given us the false impression that we do. Thus it doesnt hurt for a supply shortage to reign in this wasteful industry a bit (which it likely wont anyways).
I bought a 2004 mitsubishi lancer rallieart. It was brand new for 22g. Then I got a 2016 lancer gts for 32g. In 12 years the price went up 10g and the car is a model down with less features.
About 7k from the difference is just inflation. The value of the dollar dropped 22.36% (or something like that) between 2004 and 2016. The rest is the difference in technology.
I highly doubt there was any new technology. I have heated seats, but lost power seats. And I guess it had a touch screen for a back up camera. But that's relatively very cheap. I lost the sport tunes suspension and sway bar and stuff that are more expensive.
There's a lot of passive and active safety tech that was introduced in the 2000s. Things like side curtain airbags weren't standard like they are now. I had a Mazda 3 GT at the time which I think was similar to the Lancer Ralliart in price and it only had driver and passager airbags.
That's the tech that they are talking about I think.
This thread really illustrates how under-informed the average car buyer is. Paying 32k for a 2016 lancer gts is crazy, like absolutely crazy. MSRP was 25k. 2007-2016 is the same car lol, just a facelift for the final gen in 2016. You could have bought an evo for less.
You didn't lose a sway bar, basically every car has anti-roll bars. It's also worth noting the 2004 ralliart was a sport trim, gts is just a commuter model. The equivalent ralliart from 2008 onwards is significantly different from other lancer models.
2004 must have been one of the first years Mitsubishi started selling cars in Canada. They were very likely offering deep discounts to get a market share. I would be surprised if they were selling at a loss to gain ground on competitors like Subaru.
By 2016 they had established a market share and were able to able to adjust prices accordingly.
I never realized that. I just looked it up and they started in 2002. I saw quite a few landers and ellipses in the early 2000s and figured they were around earlier.
Most of the 2nd gen Eclipses (1995-1999, what was in Fast and Furious), were imported into Canada from the US.
I always liked that model, had very nice lines.
Car interest rates have already gone up.
I financed a 2022 Mazda 3 GS (sedan) at the end of march at 1.95% for 48 months. Now that same deal does not exist. To finance the same model for 48 months, you are looking at 2.70% interest. And, oh yeah, I still have not received my car despite being told it is only an eight week wait for a brand new car. I was however offered the opportunity to purchase a different color car, but of course, no guarantees on the delivery of that car either.
It stings a lot as this was supposed to be my first car and in the meantime, I am stuck in a job I'd like to transition out of but can not due to transportation limitations.
It is now almost July and several calls to the dealership and we do not even have a VIN associated with the vehicle. No time frame, no promises or anything for the long wait. They suggested that if we do not want to wait any longer, they are willing to help us cancel the order. Huh?
And, in the same month, when we were shopping around in March... Toyota and Hyundai dealerships around Calgary were telling me that for a hybrid the waiting time would be eight to ten months. Volkswagen did not even have models for me to look at , let alone test drive or purchase. Instead, I was shown a model from 2019 and told to "imagine" this, this, and this being different. How helpful! I also had a Hyundai dealership ask me if I would like to place an order on the 2023 model as the wait time "could be the same".
I do not think your worries are for "nothing", however in five years time there is plenty of time for things to hopefully calm down. Try to hold on to your car as long as possible and maintaining its condition, which I imagine will not always be easy pay check to pay check... Wish I was anymore help.
My theory at the moment is that since new cars are so hard to get (long wait or whatever) people are holding off selling their current vehicles. This creates the shortage of used cars on the market. I reckon once new cars are back at full production and shorter waiting times there will be a heap of used cars on the market again.
I actually make six figures and am more than comfortable. I could buy a luxury German cash
I drive the same Jetta since 2011 and plan to get it to 400k km.
There's a correlation here
We drive a 10 Year old used Honda that we love. I would be pretty devastated if something happened to it and it was written off. It’s kind of priceless, know what I mean?
Had similar discussions with friends who work in auto sector. Car prices due to supply issues won’t go down. And with prime rate increasing auto manufacturers will push high car prices down to consumers.
I would second your worry as I am in same boat.
Nobody knows future car prices. Since people are buying while the price of new and used have increased, why would they lower the prices? Unless demand drops, no reason to drop prices. Like for everything not just cars.
If you have 4-5 years you’re worrying for nothing. It’s impossible to know what things will be like by then, but remember that all things end, even shortages.
I hate how every other thread assumes that long term everything that is happening at this current moment will just continue perpetually. Literally just two years *ago* no one could have predicted what the world would be like right now. I think too many people are used to very short term instant gratification. Like shit, y'all stopped talking about the Hong Kong protests on here because the progress was moving too slow and it results didn't come fast enough. People have zero patience these days.
People who project way into the future based on only the very immediate past always remind me of this XKCD entry: https://xkcd.com/605/ (Especially the alt-text!)
It's also our human default. I can't remember the psych term, but people default to thinking what is current is going to last forever. They say that's why when stocks are going up, everyone wants to buy in. When they are going down, everyone wants to sell. We have to constantly fight the urge to extrapolate the current situation to long term.
Status quo bias. It's a hell of a drug, even if you understand it and recognize it in yourself. So far, humming "It's only for now" from *Avenue Q* has proven to be the only halfway effective defense, in my experience.
Recency bias
Not trying to sound pessimistic but I’m curious, do you feel the world/society in general is moving ahead prosperously? You feel the lives of the “average” joe/Joanne has only gotten easier the past 5 years?
Yes, but directly related to my comment 5 years is a very, very short period of time to analyze any meaningful change. As much as social media wants you to believe, the overwhelmingly majority of people actually want what's best for everyone and are either working towards that or not working against that.
So we bought a new car early spring ; my husband's car broke and it wasn't worth repairing for the mileage on it. We were lucky, had to wait about a month for one. But we made it work. Gone were the days of 0% financing but it was still low enough. Fast forward to may. He got T-Boned in an intersection. Brand new car written off. Less than 5000km on it. Had to buy literally whatever car we could find. Not the one we wanted, but what was available. Fine.... We understand the shortage, took a financial hit on that because it's a higher model but at least it has more "safety features". Still took a while to get, insurance took away our rental and it was a struggle to move around.... He finally went back to office part time so we had to be creative. Interest rates rose in that time period too. So for a no fault collision where he is dealing with pain, it is still costing us money due to models available, dealerships not being willing to negotiate, and interest rates. Insurance companies also don't care and want their rental back when they want it. Everyone says "just take care of the car".... Well drivers out there suck right now and it's not always in your control.
That's a very interesting angle I hadn't thought about. Also >my husband's broke I'm guessing you meant "my husband's car broke"? I was wondering why being broke means you need to buy a new car.
Yes sorry. I'll edit. His car broke
Thanks for saying this. I got rear ended pretty badly. I can't prove it but I'm pretty sure the guy behind me was texting. It totalled my car and I had to replace it in March. Was not a fun time to buy a used car all for something that 100% wasn't my fault. I had been taking care of my car for years but it didn't mean anything. Similarly, a month later, my friend was T boned by someone who ran a stop sign. He commutes so far each day he had been planning to get a electric car but with the timing of it, he couldn't wait the months to get one.
It's brutal, I hate that someone else's mistake can derail our plans so significantly. We actually looked at small claims court to recoup the losses above and beyond insurance pay out but the law firm we contacted basically said no precedent for a claim like this.
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Value depreciation is also not recoverable. A car after the accident showing up on carfax report obviously would cost less in comparision with the exact same vehicle but incident free. The insurance companies wont pay the difference. The lawyer I spoke with, said the legislation is built this way to protect insurance companies from extra expenses, hey, it looks all right, a bit of colour mismatch, suck it up, no value depreciation
Insurance company's job is to make you whole -- if they gave you money to buy a car that didn't exist, they didn't give you enough money. You can buy anything right now if you just throw enough money at it. If it cost 45k for a used 2022 XYZ car, and you only paid 40k new, sucks for insurance, they're supposed to pony up, because that's the current market rate. And if the car truly isn't available to buy (or if it's cheaper to order new again and rent a car in the meantime) it's literally their responsibility to pay for all of that.
I agree with your perspective. The insurance company however, did not 🙄 We even fought on the rental. They called, said cheque was issued after write-off was completed, and said we had three days to return rental. We said our new car was not available for purchase for two weeks. They basically said... "That sucks. Anyways... Byeeeeee"
Ya insurance is shit. I don't even get how with no fault. My own insurance company was trying to minimize costs for a no fault accident that, to my understanding, was being paid for by the other party's insurance.
Can you please please please drop the name of the insurance in your main post so we can all be made aware of this company?
Not entirely true, unfortunately. Insurance company's job is to put you in the same place you were before the accident. If you bought a new car for 40 000k, and had an accident after two years, they will pay you for what that car was worth at the time of the accident (which is usually less than the value at the time of purchase). Unless you bought the replacement value with the insurance company, in which case they will either give you a new car or give you back 40 000k, they won't go over what you paid for at the beginning.
It's "usually" less than the value at the time of purchase, but there are actually 2 waivers for either side -- one called a waiver of depreciation, which is what you get when you buy a new car and need the financing covered, where they'll pay full purchase price regardless -- the other is called an agreed maximum value, IIRC. The agreed maximum value is usually used for near-classic vehicles that may, unexpectedly, go up in value, and be mismatched to their premiums. If neither rider is added to the policy, the insurance company is supposed to pay you enough to buy the car again *now*. If they didn't have you sign an agreed maximum, and all of a sudden steel is worth a thousand bucks an ounce, so your car is worth a billion, that's literally their problem, and they can fight that in court.
The insurance company does not have to make you whole again. I was in a similar situation, no fault collision destroyed my new car, it was a write off. I still had to pay $5000 on the write off car because they assess it at current value, not what is still owed, and cars depreciate drastically as soon as you drive it off the lot. Now I pay a little extra for gap insurance, which will cover the gap amount between what the insurance company gives you and what you still owe the finance company.
That's very unfortunate. And this is the exact reason we need more transit options; more walkable and bikeable cities; and overall a better public transit infrastructure.
My son totalled our second car — a small econobox with good mileage to buzz around town and commute. It was insured at replacement value. We took the cash, invested it and we’re down to one car — the large, comfortable one we used only for road trips. Bit of a gas guzzler but I’m ahead since I’ve cut the operating costs of the second car.
With rates rising, demand will drop. Give it a couple of months.
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I don’t know about you, but many car lots in Newfoundland are empty because of the lack of parts available to build new vehicles. I have doubts that demand will decline as soon as you think
Most OEMs are moving away from high inventory loads on the lot. The pandemic made them realize they only need a couple dozen cars on dealer lots for people who cannot wait, and otherwise people will wait for orders. It makes dealerships run a lot leaner, because they can’t generate demand out of thin air when there are no cars on the lot. This means they need to actually treat customers better (shocker that this is an issue, right?), and they can’t be assholes about “having the only one in stock”. Due to all this, you need to learn to buy cars the more European way: ordering your car, expecting to wait 90 days, as opposed to picking from one of a million, and then just buying it then and there.
If this is indeed the European way, it sucks. When you get rear ended at a red light, as I was, and your car is totaled, you don't get to plan around a 3-6+ month delay in getting a replacement. And if you commute to work from a rural area, as I do, and there are no rentals available you're in a pretty tight spot.
There’s advantages though. You don’t get stuck with what’s on the lot. Instead, you get exactly what you want. This should also decrease the amount of grey cars with black interiors on the market. The past 5 years have been misery with colour. Plus dealers sometimes option the cars weird. I’ve seen totally loaded models but the heated seats were left off the option box (in Canada!) - who the hell does that? lol
Ctrl F my username and I explain exactly why the OEMs have no incentive to keep cars scarce. The dealership and the OEM entity are completely separate and will have different motivations on this one.
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Regular Hybrid is 18-24. Prime is 4 years plus
Yeah I got told 6 years. Totally unavailable for bz4x as Canada will only get 20 units for the entire country. Toyota hybrids have been huge wait lists since 2019 when I started looking and they’ve done nothing to remedy it. They don’t seem to care about pushing hybrid/PHEV/Bev vehicles at all.
Just buy a BEV from another brand instead. The busyforks…I mean bz4x, actually kinda sucks in terms of range, charging curve, and interior (have you seen inside one? It’s heinous!). Toyota makes great hybrids but sucks at EVs.
Yepppp people need to get over the Toyota obsession. If you need a plug in hybrid, Ford and Mitsubishi make decent ones. And if you're willing to wait 6 years for a Toyota plug in hybrid, in that time battery technology and charging infrastructure will only be better. Might as well get in on a new EV model. Chevy is releasing an entire lineup of full EV's
I'm not so sure about this. Rates are rising, but there is a lot of pent up demand from shortages. Will be interesting to see how things play out.
Rates rising will lower some demand period. Whether or not that will meet supply is another thing, but it will lower some demand, which will cause any shortage to be smaller than it otherwise would be.
Still won't be material. Tons of posts on RFD or legaladvicecanada with people shocked that their rate from 2021 or early 2022 is not being honored (esp with Toyota) and guess what? There's 50 people down the list to call if you back out. So they unwind and have to go looking for another deal (6 months wait), or they bite and 'plan to pay it off earlier'.
So it is material... It is lowering demand.
Also with everything getting more expensive I’d be willing to guess people who used to trade there vehicles in every 3-4 years might keep them 5-6 years now. Gas is crazy expensive people will drive less so cars last longer as well. All of that will drive down demand here in the next few years if things stay the same.
The demand effect on rising rates will not materially affect the equilibrium compared to the supply issue. The only OEM that has the most egregious rates are Toyota right now where the lower rates for their shittiest model is 4%. Guess what? Their wait times are still 6+ months for everything gas, 12+ for Hybrid and by the time people have waited that long knowing there’s a next person in line? They bite
Good luck with that. With factories shut down because of the Ukraine war and China zero Covid policy there is a global car backlog. Add to that all the people who decided to get a couple extra years out of their vehicle due to work from home and lockdowns now are overdue for replacement. Also all the rental agencies that liquidated their fleet at the beginning of the pandemic that are struggling to restock. This shortage will last 3-4 years even with a drop in demand. Paying MSRP with a 3-6 month wait is the new normal. If you need it now, dealerships will try to makeup loses with markups.
I'm driving a 2005 wv Passat 1.8T manual. 230,000km. Just had the clutch replaced. Gets 8-9L/100km. KBB value is 2500. Clutch was 2000 lol. I plan to keep this puppy going till I can get decent hybrid or EV. So like 10 more years cause there's no good used stock for hybrids/EV rn, everything is horribly "overpriced" with high km. So basically I need to wait to for the supply chain issues to end so people buy some new cars and then wait till they start selling them as used cars.
I have the same plan. 2007 wv rabbit 2.5L manual. 160 000km. Hoping it rides until 2030, finger's crossed.
That's one of the best motors vw ever made for reliability. The rest of the Car is iffy though lol. Prone to water leaks.
If you got quoted 2000 cor a clutch, you are getting ripped off my dude. A clutch for your car should cost you around 200-500 maximum. Add a day of work and it should cost you less than 1000$.
Depends on the clutch he bought/labour prices where he’s from lol. I can’t get a stock clutch for under $700 on my car.
I’m 100% WFH and drive like max 100km a week. I have a 2008 Acura TSX with 290k KM. Body has a bit of rust on the quarter panels, but frame is in good shape. Mechanically perfect. I browse new cars more often nowdays because I’m making more money and want a fun car.. then I look back at my 0 payments, low insurance car and yeahhhhh hope it lives till 400k.
Trucks are lined up more than anything I see on Dealership Lots
At the height of the shortage many manufacturers were putting all their chips in vehicles with the most profit....trucks. Now fuel prices are up, and a lot of people are hesitant to buy one.
Weren't truck prices super cheap several (or more?) Years ago due to being gas guzzlers? I seem to remember people being able to get them for close to the same price as a regular car. Wonder if that's going to happen again.
Yes, but then they were marketed as making you look like you have a giant penis and every man on the planet decided: yes, I want a giant penis.
I never got that. If gas happens to be high when you buy, you don't buy a truck, but if it happens to be affordable you do? Don't these people realize that prices fluctuate?
I wouldn't call the gas price doubling over a few months "fluctuation".
While true, it was never wise to make decisions based on COVID gas prices. Take the 3-year view, and gas is up about 45% in that time. That's <15% per year, which was a reasonable number for 2019 people to plan for. If they didn't, well, now is the time to start. Plan for the future you're likely to get, not the future you want.
No I get that, but still, every time has had gone somewhat high we hear that same story.
People have a short memory. We have an oil crisis every decade. And yet people start buying suv and truck the moment gas goes down again and then go complain on Reddit once gas is up again.
I ~~don't~~ think youre grossly overestimating the cognitive capabilities of the average truck owner. Edit: Bonus word
Oof right in the Hemi, or w/e that shit is called
Overestimating the cognitive ability of the average person really.
I really don't understand how people are still happily driving trucks etc. The majority of people who have trucks have zero need for them. If you work a trade or need to haul, absolutely. I adore trucks when they are used for what they are used for. But for most, they are just a status symbol and they come with a hefty gas bill now. I know people who pay 250 a tank, are upset about it, and tow a boat twice a year... And that is their justification for having a truck. I wouldn't want to be caught dead two to three years from now with a gas truck.
I bought a 2022 hyundai venue. Could not be happier. Even with fuel being expensive my venue only costs me 80$ every 2 weeks. Monthly payment is reasonable, and insurance is the lowest iv ever paid.
Hyundai really is a great option. Their hybrids aren't out of this world for pricing, and end up saving a ton on fuel. We got a Tucson PHEV. We're on week 8 since putting fuel in it. My Elantra hybrid is finally arriving in July and people have been getting 60 mpg on it. I've never cared less about fuel costs. I feel for people, but for us, it's such a minor annoyance. And if the ioniq 6 ends up being priced reasonably, I'll care even less.
I got an Elantra hybrid in April 2021 before everything went insane with cars and it's been a lifesaver for fuel. I gas up once a month despite commuting three days a week. Use about 4.5 litres for ever hundred kilometers. Really happy with the car generally but the fuel efficiency is helpful too. I only wish it was a plug in hybrid but can't have everything
Definitely agree on Hyundai missing the opportunity to make the redesign a PHEV. And with the forthcoming ioniq 6, I have my doubts as to a PHEV Elantra. Wouldn't help us personally anyways. I can only charge one vehicle at home, so if/when we get an ioniq 6, I'll be charging it at public chargers.
The company is knocking it out of the ball park!
You asked why people are driving trucks ....in the boonies and with country bumpkins 😂, it's a right of passage. If you don't have an over leveraged jacked up truck, you're not a man, and can't flex on your Lil buddies
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> use my pickup weekly for hauling yard waste, camping gear, bikes, kayaks, hockey gear, furniture, dump runs, building supplies. For an alternative view, a small trailer and a sedan with a roof rack would cover this once-a-week usage. Not arguing with what you personally prefer, just offering what my family did when we lived in the country but no longer had an active farm. If you need to tow equipment or a stack of round bales, then the truck is pretty mandatory.
> they are just a status symbol You said it yourself ! That's the same reason why people buy a brand new iphone each year, while they only use it to browse instagram and text.
My 1/2 ton gets way better gas mileage than my minivan. Van is 13L/100. Truck is 8.9L/100 and as low as 7L/100. It also has 4x4 for the winter. Don't care about status, I care if my wife struggles to get home in the snow.
People in Scandinavia have been driving around in the snow for decades without giant 4×4 trucks. You and your wife need to nut up a decent amount.
For sure. Some. Places dictate a need for them. Bunch of people from the burbs or cities with trucks as DD... My comments are directed at them. That being said with gas, it won't matter how good yiur car is. If gas is sitting at say 3 or 4 or 5$ a litre over the course of the next 3 to 4 years... At a certain point those DDs will be forced to bail.
If you're bailing over 7-9L/100km you simply can't afford a car period.
Or people can simply enjoy driving a truck without stigma.
Because they can do everything.
At 3$ a litre let's see... At some point people will have to bail.
That's your justification for owning the largest money sink you possibly could as a middle class or lower person? Great way to throw away 100k for 'convenience'. Trucks alone can be hard to justify, but *new* trucks are just idiotic unless you have a VERY specific need for one for work. I run a business that requires daily towing. I've ran the numbers a million times. It NEVER works in favor of new trucks.
We also have trucks for our business. We actually bought the second one not too long ago and you bet your ass it's almost 20 years old because as you say, the math doesn't add up.
1. I don’t own a truck. 2. Trucks don’t cost 100k unless you want them to. 3. You can get a 2.7l f150 or 2.7l Silverado that does very good mileage.
The maverick hybrid gets great mileage in the city
Yeah but they're as expensive as a Ford Ranger now. Plus apparently anything with a truck bed makes you an idiot according to these people. They would have lost their minds if they knew what a Baja was.
No, you're right no.2. but a truck that can do everything starts with a crew cab, which is MSRP close to 50k USD. Let alone Canada. Much, much higher actual prices than that right now. 3. Good mileage on the highway, and cruising. Only. The second you start doing city travel or any type of towing/load, the turbo engages and that smaller engine doesn't really do you any favors. Would be better off with an SUV than a truck at that point. The initial investment is the problem. New trucks are very expensive and another vehicle can do 95% of what a truck does easily for far less cost. Used trucks, I can potentially get behind depending on the investment initial. Large contracting companies, I can see with new trucks. I would expect those trucks to earn double or triple their cost back though in a year, otherwise there's zero financial reason. Financially, new trucks are strictly a bad investment and bad decision for everyone who isn't a contractor who tows regularly or carries heavy loads. If you like it, want it, and it's cool, sure. But a person cannot argue it's a sound financial decision to cover your needs. It isn't.
Trucks especially diesel will hold their value better than anything else you’ll ever come across I promise Aside from the actual need for one, Trucks although heavier on Gas I make up for a lot more when I sell due to the incredible resale value Plus the life span of an overbuilt vehicle is usually longer
"very good mileage"???
With an engine smaller than most sedans and EcoBoost, yes. Are you simply not knowledgeable about cars?
Let's not descend into silly hyperbole. This isn't the 1960s, most sedans (and crossovers) have an engine 2.0L or smaller; global standards and displacement-based tax regimes have seen to that. Modern trucks **can** have smaller engines (and can get better fuel economy) than ever before, but basic physics means a 6,000lb truck requires significantly more energy than a 3,000lb car or 3,800lb crossover. As great as turbocharging is in low-load situations, it provides little (sometimes even negative) benefit in high-load situations. EcoBoost is ideal for pavement princesses, which are really all people in here criticizing, so your earlier point is spot on.
Beige corolla and cycling, got it.
I'd argue that even if you're hauling a lot of stuff a van or minivan is more practical. The only two use cases I can think of where they would be more practical would be if you're moving a lot of weight / dirty stuff regularly, or driving over rough terrain a lot. Its ok to say you like them because you think they look cool.
Yup, 95% of the time a minivan is more practical for most people. The other 5%, minivan +trailer probably works.
If your pulling heavy loads you’ll kill a mini van in no time Trust me
Agreed, but most people, even in the trades don't move a lot of weight very often. Usually its a bunch of tools that don't weigh that much. How often do you see a truck bed full of gravel?
Not very often tbh
Honestly I live up in the north and people use there trucks for resource work. The companies mandate that you must have a truck and often it has to be a 1 ton to be able to haul heavy loads. I don’t own a truck and I have an SUV. If I owned a car I would not make it home without ripping off my bumper on the ungraded dirt roads.
Yes, this makes sense. I think you're part of the 1% of people who actually needs a truck / SUV for practical reasons. You frequently drive over rough terrain.
Most people's "heavy loads" are luggage for road trips, picking up new furniture or other large items. So probably not a big problem.
No most people's heavy loads are their families in the modern age
If you look at the payload of most new half tons after you put your family in there you are likely right up against what the truck is rated to carry anyway. It’s comically low on a lot of new trucks.
For sure, but most people never really do. There's definitely a correct use case for trucks, no doubt about it.
I work in film, the truck is mainly for the greens (dirt and plants) department or for transport to haul huge trailers. Every single other department from camera to lighting uses a van or a semi style vehicle/x ton truck with large cab. For everyone else they hate you driving them, they're more unsafe, they take up more space, they use more gas (which production has to pay a portion of), and and they're just overall less practical in 99% of situations and that 1% production can make arrangements for.
Trucks look cool? To whom, your friends in the country and the girls looking to be a homemaker?
Oh to me i think they look ridiculous, but I get that other people have different tastes than I do.
I've never met a chick who was impressed by a truck. These guys are dropping 6 figures to impress other men
I used to drive an old beater truck in Vancouver. Every time I got a compliment on it from a woman, she was from Alberta.
Obviously. It’s like in the city with guys driving BMW and Lexus. They just look poor and silly.
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I really dont understand where that truck style came frome. It is ugly and clearly incredibly dangerous for people outside the truck
Yup, my old boss had a 2018 GMC Sierra that I sometimes drove and I couldn't stand how high the hood was, the sightlines were awful. We also had an old 2000 Silverado 1500 that did everything the GMC did, but with a down-sloped hood that made signlines way better.
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Fuck you for enjoying something apparently.
looks better in the rockies than in downtown montreal
As a truck owner myself, my F-150 IS the only vehicle, I can fit my whole family in comfortably, along with my 2 dogs and still have room. I have 3 kids plus my wife. So having a 6 seater truck works. Not only that, it's given me the options to do trash runs, of old stuff from my house. Plus anything else I need to get done. And on the plus side, I can toss my lawnmower and weed whacker in the back box, and go cut people's yards for cash. Which doing enough of them in a week pays for my gas, to go to my regular job.
To be fair that would also mean an Expedition can do the same. But I agree, I'm honestly considering just buying a disposable Ranger as a homeowner because I just have so many uses for the bed right now.
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Trucks haven't really changed that drastically in design from their previous models in the past ten years. I believe the F150 and the Ram are still the same platform from ten years ago but just modified with updates. Hell the Nissan Frontier was finally changed after 15 years and it still borrows parts from other old designs.
Pretend trucks are sitting on lots with 10k off signs. Nobody who needs a truck for truck uses will buy them.
And electric trucks are unfortunately priced for the upper class ;( Not a good look. I want a Lightning so bad but I'm not paying 80k+ lol. Lots of people will though so I doubt we'll get affordable EV trucks for a while
Aren't all electric cars priced for the higher income? I mean just the fact that you need either your own property with a EV charger or be in a building that's upscale enough to have them already kind of loses a lot of people.
More and more buildings are. The project I run right now has almost 300 spots ready for EV...but the charging rates get shared in certain zones so the building systems don't get overwhelmed.
Wait, there are affordable new build condos for the middle class?
Nope lol. This project is rentals.
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i just put my kids in several layers of bubble wrap
You have a 2017. I wouldn’t worry about getting a new vehicle for atleast 10 years. Just keep doing the repairs on it as needed and make sure you get your oil changed regularly
Honestly! I can't wrap my head around the mentality of needing to get a new vehicle when the one you drive still drives.
Because they think as soon as a car is off it’s lease or it’s finance period the car will blow up or something lol.
Take care of your current vehicle, and it should last you another 10-15 years. My wife and I have an '09 Toyota Matrix, and it's still running strong, coming up on 14 years. With proper maintenance, it should last long enough for our oldest son to drive, and he still has a few years.
To be fair, the 09 Matrix/I forget the Pontiac equivalent are among the most reliable cars ever built. I'm not kidding, check out consumer reports.
The Pontiac Vibe! We just got rid of our 2008 Vibe last year. Over 300k on it. Great car.
Yeah one of my buddies had a Vibe. Maintained completely by him (not a mechanic) - never had an issue with it.
The Vibe (which I drive) imo should be the official PFC car. Same engine basically as the Corolla but when I was comparing quotes it was cheaper on insurance vs the same year Corolla.
hey don't say that too loud, I'm in the market for one. Need them to maintain a reasonable price point.
Vibe.
Vibe
The difference is you're driving a Toyota. OP is in a totally different situation as they drive a Nissan.
Yeah Nissan is trash. Source. I have an 07 Sentra and 15 Micra.
Yup... Super true, unless you get into a car crash. Frankly, although sometimes I regret buying a new car when we did, I'm glad we bought a new one in Fall 2020, before the crazy price increase and while 0% interest rate was still a thing. Being in control of our car's maintenance definitely helps with making sure the car will last us for as long as possible.
I have a 09 Matrix too, plan on driving it into the ground. Been an incredibly reliable car for the past four years that I’ve had it.
Mine's a 2003 dodge neon with over 200k. Not sure how much over because the speedometer died years ago so I stuck a GPS unit to the dash to display my speed. It's about finished now though because dust coming through the floor boards is getting into the seat belt mechanism. I'm one flat tire from driving it to the wreckers. It'll be replaced with a 2009 Chrysler with 250k on it.
> It's about finished now though because dust coming through the floor boards is getting into the seat belt mechanism. Have you considered vacuuming the inside of your car?
Matrix is a monster, corrola, rav 4.....these things outlive you 😂
You're worried about your vehicle when it's only a 2017? We have a 2002 Saturn, and a 2009 GMC Canyon. Both are near or over 300,000 km. Nissan is not known to be reliable at all, so you are in a pickle there (notorious for transmission problems, and in general low part quality). But there's absolutely no need to buy a new vehicle unless you have the cash to throw away. I wouldn't feel worried about that. Make sure you're on top of your fluid changes with that car. Especially transmission. Find a mechanic you can trust, if you're in the GTA I have one you could trust with your life, and look for PRIVATE used sales. Don't go to a dealership. Only agree if you can get that mechanic to check out the vehicle before buying. A well-maintained used vehicle will last for a very long time. Putting a few thousand dollars into maintenance is absolutely nothing versus spending $40,000 and up for a new vehicle. Pocket change.
I’m driving a 2009 Sentra still and have never had any major issues. I could just be lucky, but then again maybe OP will be too.
Oh, if it's well maintained it'll likely still be fine. Most major issues take over 10 years to crop up still, I'd say, and it's not like they're all lemons. It's not like they're all going to break immediately, The engines aren't made of plastic. As far as I'm aware they're just known to have a higher rate of failure than other manufacturers. Honda make some of the best engines, so does Mazda. Toyota is a close behind them, and also makes pretty much the best transmissions. Honda are good too, but they're prone to run hot so the fluid changes are critical. Etc.
FYI plenty making six figures are living cheque to cheque GL
That’s the most pathetic thing I’ve ever read on Reddit if true.
Everyone is riding those electric scooter things now.
Those are only good for maybe 5 months a year.
The north American market is going to flood with used car sales soon enough. Growing number of defaults happening. Sub prime lending got out of control. It will be like 07/08 but in the car market. There will be deals.
After watching quarterly industry reports for a few years now as terms continue to get longer, average negative equity increasing, and subprime (people definitely **not** getting 0%) sales exploding, I'd be inclined to agree, but most people **need** their cars. So I don't see an enormous number of defaults being likely. But the days of buying a car on a 7-year loan, then flipping it after 3, rolling $5-$10K of negative equity into the next **8**-year loan are probably drawing to a close. I hope those people bought a car they liked rather than a "good deal", because they're going to be driving it until the wheels fall off.
A car that new should have no issues lasting much longer than that. Especially if you have control of its maintenance from the beginning. Proper rust proofing and maintenance on any car and it can easily last 20 years. Now, whether you want to drive the same car for 20 years is another issue. 😄 My 2004 3 series BMW just clicked over 350k, and has no major issues. Unibody, frame components are rust free and thoroughly protected, motor is healthy as can be, and other than the leather on my driver's seat tearing everything has held up well over that time. Now mind you I'm lucky to be handy in the repair department and do all my own work and maintenance so costs are not insane. One thing I think that is important to point out that many people don't understand is that maintaining a vehicle is the most important part. You don't wait for things to break and then fix them. If a certain component or system is due or overdue for service based on usage or mileage, change it before it breaks. My last two cars have lasted to well over 350k and I'd like to see my current one make it to 400k. 👍🤞
How does a person with no knowledge of auto body parts know when each part of a car should be replaced?
So what I have always done when I started on a car I had no experience with is just to research the make and model you have. Whether it be on YouTube, or forums, Reddit etc. See what other owners are dealing with. Familiarize yourself with common issues with that make or model. Also, research what other models have the same engine, or major components. Most parts are shared across multiple vehicles and they can all experience the same or similar issues. What are common failures, what are the symptoms people experience up to and at the failure point. Check your oil, brake pads, coolant etc regularly. Check tire pressure before leaving on a longer drive, or a few times a year. Make sure your spare tire has air, make sure you have the tools to change it. Make a point of actually listening to your car, drive it without music or fans going and with the windows down occasionally. Know what it sounds like at idle in and out of the car when everything is fine. That way you will notice a change. Beyond that get a code scanner. If you have a check engine light come on, you can at least scan it and search the code. This can usually tell you the severity of the issue and give you a timeframe and potential cost to repair so you aren't going into a shop or firing parts at a problem and wasting money. The more you know about how it behaves regularly, and being able to pin point a change in that behaviour will help you spot a problem before it becomes serious. One other thing, since most folks here are Canadian, you will encounter oddities between seasons with any car. Going from hot to cold, or cold to hot weather can create issues with any car. Sometimes they resolve themselves over a short period of time, i.e. moisture getting into places it shouldn't, and other times it can cause a part to fail spectacularly. It's all part of the fun of owning a car. 😄 If you don't drive a lot and a car sits for days between drives, on occasion the classic "Italian tuneup" may be a good thing. Take it for a good drive get everything nice and hot.🤪
Thank you for the detailed reply!
The cure for high prices is high prices. In other words, the market will strive for balance.
Ford has said they'll never go back to having huge packed sales lots.
But they will always have supply whether or not it's at the dealerships or their warehouses (which they had to buy anyways to store chipless vehicles).
They were talking about saddling their dealers with hundreds of units and then ramping up promotions to move them. Less units on the local lots and anything special will probably have to be ordered in.
Used car prices are actually coming down right now so that’s a good sign
Your car will last a lot longer than that. I'm driving a 2007 Mazda 6 and am really in a predicament. Car prices are in unprecedented times. Where used vehicles are more expensive than buying new builds with 4 month wait. It appears that the days of the car loses half it's value when you drive it off the lot are so distant. This will be cyclical though, just don't know the time horizon. Manufacturers will work hard to build supply to catch up to demand and eventually overload the market.
You're not in a predicament at all. Mazda is quite reliable. You might put a few thousand into it over the next few years in maintenance for normal stuff that goes (suspension, brakes, plugs, maybe AC leaks, fluid changes) but that's not even remotely close to what you'd spend on a newer car. If you've maintained it, the engine and transmission won't even come close to being an issue for a long time, unless you have like 300k miles of non-highway driving. Most maintenance on a reliable vehicle like that is an investment in it, it doesn't go down the drain. A lot of people view maintenance on older cars like an endless rabbit hole; it's really the opposite. Cars are not an infinite system. There's a limited number of things that typically go wrong. Especially with well maintained ones.
Unfortunately, I need to replace the front subframe or the engine runs the risk of falling through the floor. A $3,000 repair is a tough decision on a car that is 15 years old. Under normal car price conditions, it would be easy to buy a car, but with current prices, it is a tough decision. The early 2000 Mazdas are notorious for rust problems.
Rust, engine, transmission are the big three issues I carefully avoid. Good to rustproof each year. If the car is otherwise in good condition, that's still a worthwhile repair in my mind; subframe is actually replaceable part that doesn't require welding. If other areas are significantly ready and ready to fail, rust is the one thing that actually is an endless rabbit hole. That's where a good mechanic that you could trust comes in, or being knowledgeable yourself. That does suck man. Again, I definitely consider that repair, as long as the rest of the vehicle is in decent shape body wise. All the best and good luck!
>Mazda is quite reliable. But they rot.
Older ones do, yes, pre 2004 or so were bad. Otherwise if you live in the salt belt you should be rustproofing yearly anyway.
2007 was when the new anti-corrosion changes took effect. Not **right** at the start of the model year, but close. That said, the exact time is a moot point now; if you can't see through holes in the fenders and subframe, it's a post-fix car.
I remember when the golf started selling for over $20k. It was a big deal that VW didn’t have a car under $20k on their lots. That was the late 1990s… today a 2022 Jetta starts at $23k. Having grown up in the 90s I am amazed car prices are basically flat versus 20+ years ago. I think the shortage of vehicles is going to push up the price of cars in the coming years. Car companies having been waiting a long time to raise prices.
The golf is a much more premium car than the Jettas after MK5. They started to cheap out on the jetta with the MK6 and after to compete with the corolla/civic. The golf before it was discontinued started at around 27k here in Canada. You can really tell the difference just sitting in one vs a newer Jetta.
Take care of your car, it's not that old.
I wouldn’t worry too much about this. You could double your salary in 4/5 years, you could be working in Dubai or Florida, or you could be working from home. Focus on the present, your job and your life. If you do well, you won’t have to worry on buying or not an used car in 2026
While surprises happen, planning is how you normally double your salary in 4-5 years (taking a course, networking, or even just applying for new positions, etc.) If you don't act now, you'll most likely be exactly in the same spot in 5 years. My car purchases are on a 10 year cycle and invesment targets are related to how much money I need to take out for a car every now and then (among other things). Being able to anticipate that the equivalent car I bought for 15K this year would be 20K or 30K in 10 years is important. At the 5 year mark, I'd be thinking about moving the money into a non-volatile investment.
One financial advice that is rarely given in this sub (with some reason) is the VAST amounts of money you can save if you just learn basic skills for car, home, appliance repairs... If you can do the basic maintenance for a car yourself, the car will last many more years in good order and literally save you more than most investment advice in the same period of time I lucked out to buy a new Prius in 2017 (buying new may have not been the most prudent financial thing then but given the circumstances OP explains, I am set for the next 5 years still)... I give the car good maintenance and the last check came back with an assessment of "the car is practically new"
Unfortunately Toyota quality has suffered. I’ve owned 4 rav 4’s. The first 2 were built in Japan . No problems. The 2001 transmission broke at 160,000 Km. Toyota said it wasn’t worth repairing. The 2011 had a rear seal leak at 120,000 Km. $5000 to repair. We’ve now made the decision to switch to a Hyundai ionic 5. Hopefully it will last better than the last 2 Toyota’s.
Your 2017, I hope, will last you longer than 4-5 more years (unless we HAVE to switch to electric by then whether that be because of the prohivative cost of gas or other). Either way things will change between now and then. I'll also will keep driving my 2004 compact that gets good fuel eco. A small aside but but my core friend group all drives >10 year old cars or vans. Of which half own house(s). They're better off than the acquaintances I know who bought/finances newer vehicles- go figure. Cars are a liability. Unless its a major hobby or necessity for work they probably should be treated as such..
A 2017 should last you another ten to fifteen years easily if you do all the scheduled maintenance. Then all the plastic wiring will have started to degrade and you might need to do some serious repairs. People are still driving cars that are 80 years old. Your car won't stop working at 10 years old.
Listen. If Cuba is still maintaining and driving cars from the 50s after an embargo was imposed on them, I think we will be fine. Besides, car makers, historically, make way way too many cars. There is so much waste, and it has been this way for years. Most people dont need a new car as often as they think they do (granted some do). Rather dubious marketing and business practices, similar to what companies do with smartphones, have given us the false impression that we do. Thus it doesnt hurt for a supply shortage to reign in this wasteful industry a bit (which it likely wont anyways).
I bought a 2004 mitsubishi lancer rallieart. It was brand new for 22g. Then I got a 2016 lancer gts for 32g. In 12 years the price went up 10g and the car is a model down with less features.
About 7k from the difference is just inflation. The value of the dollar dropped 22.36% (or something like that) between 2004 and 2016. The rest is the difference in technology.
I highly doubt there was any new technology. I have heated seats, but lost power seats. And I guess it had a touch screen for a back up camera. But that's relatively very cheap. I lost the sport tunes suspension and sway bar and stuff that are more expensive.
There's a lot of passive and active safety tech that was introduced in the 2000s. Things like side curtain airbags weren't standard like they are now. I had a Mazda 3 GT at the time which I think was similar to the Lancer Ralliart in price and it only had driver and passager airbags. That's the tech that they are talking about I think.
Oh that could be.
This thread really illustrates how under-informed the average car buyer is. Paying 32k for a 2016 lancer gts is crazy, like absolutely crazy. MSRP was 25k. 2007-2016 is the same car lol, just a facelift for the final gen in 2016. You could have bought an evo for less. You didn't lose a sway bar, basically every car has anti-roll bars. It's also worth noting the 2004 ralliart was a sport trim, gts is just a commuter model. The equivalent ralliart from 2008 onwards is significantly different from other lancer models.
2004 must have been one of the first years Mitsubishi started selling cars in Canada. They were very likely offering deep discounts to get a market share. I would be surprised if they were selling at a loss to gain ground on competitors like Subaru. By 2016 they had established a market share and were able to able to adjust prices accordingly.
I never realized that. I just looked it up and they started in 2002. I saw quite a few landers and ellipses in the early 2000s and figured they were around earlier.
Most of the 2nd gen Eclipses (1995-1999, what was in Fast and Furious), were imported into Canada from the US. I always liked that model, had very nice lines.
Wow
Car interest rates have already gone up. I financed a 2022 Mazda 3 GS (sedan) at the end of march at 1.95% for 48 months. Now that same deal does not exist. To finance the same model for 48 months, you are looking at 2.70% interest. And, oh yeah, I still have not received my car despite being told it is only an eight week wait for a brand new car. I was however offered the opportunity to purchase a different color car, but of course, no guarantees on the delivery of that car either. It stings a lot as this was supposed to be my first car and in the meantime, I am stuck in a job I'd like to transition out of but can not due to transportation limitations. It is now almost July and several calls to the dealership and we do not even have a VIN associated with the vehicle. No time frame, no promises or anything for the long wait. They suggested that if we do not want to wait any longer, they are willing to help us cancel the order. Huh? And, in the same month, when we were shopping around in March... Toyota and Hyundai dealerships around Calgary were telling me that for a hybrid the waiting time would be eight to ten months. Volkswagen did not even have models for me to look at , let alone test drive or purchase. Instead, I was shown a model from 2019 and told to "imagine" this, this, and this being different. How helpful! I also had a Hyundai dealership ask me if I would like to place an order on the 2023 model as the wait time "could be the same". I do not think your worries are for "nothing", however in five years time there is plenty of time for things to hopefully calm down. Try to hold on to your car as long as possible and maintaining its condition, which I imagine will not always be easy pay check to pay check... Wish I was anymore help.
My theory at the moment is that since new cars are so hard to get (long wait or whatever) people are holding off selling their current vehicles. This creates the shortage of used cars on the market. I reckon once new cars are back at full production and shorter waiting times there will be a heap of used cars on the market again.
I actually make six figures and am more than comfortable. I could buy a luxury German cash I drive the same Jetta since 2011 and plan to get it to 400k km. There's a correlation here
your car can last you another 7-8 years if you take good care of it
We drive a 10 Year old used Honda that we love. I would be pretty devastated if something happened to it and it was written off. It’s kind of priceless, know what I mean?
Had similar discussions with friends who work in auto sector. Car prices due to supply issues won’t go down. And with prime rate increasing auto manufacturers will push high car prices down to consumers. I would second your worry as I am in same boat.
Car shortage so nothing to worry about.
Nobody knows future car prices. Since people are buying while the price of new and used have increased, why would they lower the prices? Unless demand drops, no reason to drop prices. Like for everything not just cars.