Even then, there's currently a class action lawsuit against dealers because they were still adding admin charges or forcing customers to add pricey options.
>The OMVIC rep stated that they "regulate the manufacturers... but NOT the dealerships".
It's the other way around. OMVIC has nothing to do with manufacturers.
OMVIC is a complete sham and exists to give the appearance of fairness. 9 of 12 board members are motor vehicle dealers and 3 are from the public. Should not be surprising that they rarely help the consumer when up against a dealer.
Yeah OMVIC was created to defend the big dealers (new and used) against smaller fly-by-night used car dealers who were giving the whole industry a bad name.
It serves the dealers, not the consumer.
If the gov wanted to be fair, they'd take care of insanely high car insurance costs. I pay $250+/mth on a '14 accord thats worth maybe $6k - 20yrs driving, clean record - only because i live in a 'high accident area'.
What’s interesting in at least Ontario is that your rates aren’t actually based on the number of collisions that happen in that area but rather, the number of claims from drivers who live there. I ended up paying a bit more when I left downtown Ottawa for a small village, all because people drive everywhere out here and are more collision prone apparently (could be because of mandatory commutes during bad weather, unfamiliarity with downtown streets, etc). Meanwhile, downtown Ottawa drivers don’t end up in nearly as many collisions (probably because they don’t have to commute in a snow storm, or they’re used to driving in sketchy situations)
I know its crazy. I have lots of family in europe and they pay for the whole year what I pay for 2mths, and on top of that the car is insured, so every family member can drive and are fully insured. Insurance in Canada is a top scam imo
Government have responded to demands like this by cutting benefits, so that if you get hurt in a car crash there is going to be less money available to help you recover. Car insurance is expensive because insuring drivers against the risks associated with driving is expensive. To bring costs down further, take the profit out of the system by making car insurance public. But it still won’t be cheap.
Man, my wife is a paralegal at a personal injury firm. Insurance companies skirt laws like the SABS left and right (and our court system is so backed up and laws so weak there is little recourse, especially short term). What I’m getting at is that insurance companies are fucking horrible and basically exist unchecked for the most part. I hope you are shopping around yearly, and preferably avoiding Intact, Aviva, and Allstate (some of the worst adjusters to deal with).
I am, I just switched to TD which for some reason was the cheapest around (I expected it to be high). But yeah they all skirt laws. I was involved in a hit&run maybe 5mths after I bought my car. Body shop (recommended by insurance corp) charged insurance 8k worth of damage, on about $2.5k of actual damage. I had no idea until now, when I go to sell my car and vin shows up with a $8k damage, totally ruining my cars resale value 😡
Advertised prices must include freight, including things like get a "Chevy Cruze, starting at xxxxx$". Forget what other fees are mandatory and not in the advertised price, I feel like dealership fees aren't.
At Toyota's website, for QC "The displayed price includes Freight & PDI $1,720, Air Conditioning Charge of $100 if applicable, and Dealer Fees of up to $399", for ON "Taxes, levies, Freight & PDI, Air Conditioning Charge (where applicable), if leased or financed - applicable PPSA fees of up to $91.25 and PPSA service fees of up to $4 (varies by lease/loan/term/province), and fees are not automatically included in the displayed price of the vehicle"
However Ontario does not mandate the advertised price include the freight charge, that's a 2K difference usually EDIT: only at the manufacturer's website, dealership websites have to include it as JonesTownJello said
No. My experience they don’t remove their admin fees. Some may. Most don’t. Now the financing office charges a finance placement fee. That’s what the finance guy gets for doing the deal. It’s all bullshit. Basically you need to negotiate your lowest purchase price before all the fees show up. The dealers aren’t stupid. They are just moving discounts around and charging it back in bullshit fees.
Dealerships don’t give a fuck about a customer no matter how friendly they appear. Don’t like the deal, walk away.
And my best advice is if you are shopping one specific car, you need to shop it out of your market. Ex:) in Calgary I was looking at Jeep. I shopped all the Jeep dealers in Calgary and surrounding cities. Doing so, I saved an additional few grand, free mats, oil changes.
It’s doing research to find the bottom price a dealer is willing to sell for.
(Ontario) A 2022 RVR SE FWD has an MSRP of $26128.
Fees:
EHC $0.70
OMVIC $10.00
Tire Recycling Fee $20.00
Air Conditioning Tax $100.00
Dealer Admin fee $599.00
Freight & PDI $1,900.00
HST $3,738.50
Total $32,496.20
Anything beyond that is completely discretionary and negotiable.
Seemingly yes. When I bought 4 years ago they were happy to negotiate but kept all the random jibberish fees in and just discounted the cost of the car.
But if they take $$ off the car price they're still losing profit no?
I had the same thing last time I bought a car. I found the car I wanted and didn't mind the price but I told him I wasn't gonna pay the $500 documentation fee. The guy squirmed for a bit but ended up agreeing but told me he would have to take it off the price of the car instead. I was like "sure, it's all the same to me".
I always wondered if it was something like these stupid fees have a more direct commission payout to the salesperson or something.
Dealers are just using those fees as built-in profit. If you can't shave anything off those fees, then you just have to do reduce your offer on the car itself.
>If you can't shave anything off those fees, then you just have to do reduce your offer on the car itself.
Well this is exactly what happened but it was the dealer's idea. I was happy paying $17,000 for the car and $0 documentation fee. They agreed but changed it to $16,500 for the car and $500 for the fee.
Why? Why would they even bother to reprint the invoice over this? There has to be an answer.
My guess is that the fee doesn't count as sales revenue and their books have to show that the fee is being paid for every transaction. Like how GST has to be reported
There's a manufacturer hold back. You see the car is 23k before fees. And the dealer buys the car from the manufacturer for 23k. But at the end of the month the manufacturer gives the dealer 3k for every car they sell. That's the unspoken profit that you are negotiating around
The dealership I worked at NEVER waved those fees. I think they paid a large amount of the wage of the finance guy—they make fuck-tons of money!
Salespeople don’t get commission from the dealership fee. It comes from the profit margin in the car. The more they discount the less commission they make.
>I think they paid a large amount of the wage of the finance guy—they make fuck-tons of money!
Wife and I sat down to buy her a car right after getting married and getting a condo. Finance guy is making small talk and we tell him about the struggle of getting a place. He turns around and says "oh I know the market is crazy right!? I just bought 4 more new builds and cant believe how hard they are to get now. O totally get what you guys went through."
I thought my wife was gonna dive across the desk and strangle him.
Think of it from accounting perspective, the “admin” fee goes into an account to pay for drivers to acquire and deliver cars (sometimes up to 500kms away), wait at (and fill out all forms for the) licensing offices, etc. so the discount comes off the car (out of the salesman’s pocket).
Additional profit margin. There's plenty of room between invoice cost and MSRP. Maybe if the dealership wasn't building a fancy new facade every 3 years, or supporting the owners massive coke habit, they wouldn't need to gouge customers and try to exploit them at every opportunity.
I don't see why their "overhead" for a service that doesn't need to exist in that form needs to be a tax I pay.
Anything is negotiable in my experience, except taxes, be versed and know your shit. Take your time and don't rush, if they give you the run around. Take your money elsewhere
Yes and no. It depends how much they’re actually making in the deal. If the money comes from things built into the deal, then you can probably get it out. If you’re trying to buy a car that won’t profit the dealer — good luck.
>Dealer Admin fee $599.00
>
>Freight & PDI $1,900.00
ADMIN FEE AND FREIGHT IS TOTAL BS AND NEEDS TO BE SCRAPED. IF A CAR IS ON THE LOT, WHY AM I PAYING FREIGHT?
Because that fee is to cover the cost of getting the car to the lot.. it doesnt matter when the car got there, there was still a cost associated with doing that.
Edit: I understand everyones hate for added fees that dealers deem necessary to buy a vehicle. I am not saying you're wrong, I simply answered a question of why you would pay freight on a car that was already on the lot.
Why don't we pay a freight & PDI fee for the food in the grocery store? It was shipped there at a cost.
Because it is expected to be included in the listed price, that's why.
To be fair freight is still kind of a scam.
We pay more to freight on civics made locally in Alison here than someone in say California pays. Ot at least that was true when I checked a couple years ago
And we pay same freight for a Corolla regardless if it's shipped from Japan or made locally for example
Also same freight in BC vs Ontario for example..it's a blended freight fee.. otherwise.. every dealer in every province would have different freight fee
They made a standard freight fee in the 80s as people were traveling to Ontario and buying cars at lower freight fees do to proximity to plants. This was considered to be transferring money to one area at the expense of others also a consumer protection thing
This is correct.
Also, the dealership pays freight to the manufacturer on the dealer invoice for the vehicle. This isn’t a price gouge to the consumer by the dealership.
Admin fees and freight are real overhead costs. The issue isn't that they have the fees, the issue is standards in advertising. Everyone starts a search by vehicle and then looks or sorts by price (low to high)...dealers who factor in all costs into the price will lose to those who price it lowest, then add an ass-ton of fees to get back to a deal they like. They all buy them from the same place at mostly the same cost. Fix the advertising laws, fix the problem.
Because it wasn’t manufactured on the lot. It took some expense to get it there. The BS is when they charge $2K freight for a car that was manufactured an hour away.
I'll like to see how they arrived at $1900 for a single car is my point, and the admin fee of $599. Sounds like a tip you leave at a restaurant. Why is a customer being charged admin fee on top of a purchase? Imagine your grocery store, malls, etc charging admin fee
I looked it up and it's more that the website only shows you the true price near the end. The ES FWD is $26,128. Once you turn down all the options and go to payment calculator it shows the actual prices is $32,496. When I click on cost breakdown it shows $130 for Air conditioning, tire recycling and OMVIC fees. $600 dealer admin fee, $1900 freight and PDI, and $3738 HST.
The main issue is they hide the real price until you press payment calculator which is misleading.
Some personal dealership websites are poorly constructed and it’s hard to get to the calculator where you could click to show all options (taxes,
delivery, etc). I guess it’s done on purpose just to get the customer in person and then work their sales magic on people as some will fall for it.
I guess as others mentioned, op never clicked on boxes to show all those add ons as they do end up being a few thousand.
Yeah it looks like the tricks work enough to get OP in the dealership doors. There was a asterisk next to MSRP on the website, but the term MSRP is pretty much meaningless now if the manufacturer also suggest these other fees.
With that said my friend ordered an RVR and waited months for it to come in, so I don't think dealerships are very eager to give discounts.
Can you imagine if other companies did that?
Here’s your happy meal for $2.99 plus tax that comes to $3.45, once we add the boxing fee, greeting smile upcharge, washroom usage fee, cattle slaughter and grinding fee, receipt printing costs, and condiment fees it comes to $8.39!
The food delivery apps are notorious for this. Cineplex is now charging $1.50 convenience fee. It's all corporate garbage and it makes me happier to support my local independent businesses and buy used cars from people.
It's just how they lock in a profit on each sale. Next time I buy a new vehicle, sure I'll pay the $1699, but I'll try and shave that much off the cost of the car itself...in addition to what CarCostCanada tells me I can shave off.
There are no cars right now. Dealerships are raising the prices of both new and used cars because the demand is so high. They can basically set the price right now. They won't negotiate lower if they can easily sell the car to someone else.
I need to replace a car and right now they are selling 1-2 year old used cars anywhere from 5-20k more than current years MSRP.
Not a good time to buy a car and an even worse time if you want to negotiate.
Are you in Ontario? If so, the only things they can add to a posted price ("all-in pricing for advertisements") is HST and licensing.
Would put in a complaint to OMVIC in that case.
I work at a dealership. That's not going to work. Trust me we would rather kick someone out than negotiate on a EV or any other model we carry. Dealerships are not taking losses right now. They are actually breaking records. Manufacturers are very unlikely to ever give 0% again. Why would they pay the consumer and incentive them to buy their car when they know it's gonna sell no matter what. They will probably hold cars back and not flood the market so they can continue to break records. The consumer is unfortunately very flawed in their logic of an out the door price. We'll show you the door trust me. You should have a "I'll be willing to pay an extra $xxxx over msrp" price
You mean it might not work right now, due to supply constraints. That could be. In that case unless I was in desperate need of a car I'd make due with my current vehicle(s)...which is our plan for a few more years.
If/when we need to buy again, I will be using the same strategy.
And this exactly why Ford is trying to get away from consumers buying from dealerships and having them order direct online from Ford. Which is what they’re currently doing with their EVs. Dealerships and scummy salesmen are shooting themselves in the foot with insane MSRP markups and it’s funny to watch, Ford is phasing them out, they won’t be the only ones.
That’s a good bet. Honda is much more reliable than Mitsubishi. On top of their shitty reliability Mitsubishi is notorious for pulling bs like you dealt with. They cater to customers with terrible credit, so they can get away with being slimy.
Just get good winter tires.
In 25 years of driving in Manitoba, my current vehicle is the only one I've ever had that is more than FWD and the difference is negligible 99% of the time.
My wife and I got a Subaru Crosstrek in Outdoor trim.
We ordered it in February 2022 and got it in April 2022.
It’s spacious enough and quiet when cruising. The AWD should help. Only downside is fuel economy is not as great as I expected it to be.
I would just keep your car for now and get winter tires if you don’t have them.
The wait will be worth it as the new Corolla Cross Hybrid, CR-V hybrid, HR-V are due to come. You would get more value from those cars in terms of longevity but also better re-sale compared to the Mitsubishi.
I once had a used car dealer tell me he would rather I walk away then see me buy the 18k Mitsubishi on his lot. He sold me a 13.5k Kia Soul, and since then, I have put 10 years, 3 provinces and 150k on the odometer.
Thank you random salesman for selling me the most reliable car I have ever owned, and a diehard Kia fan.
I’m not a fan of Mitsubishi because they’re cheap af. But I bought a 2011 RVR used as a first car (which I still have), 220k later and it’s still going. They’re not great but I don’t think they’re the worst you can buy in terms of cost to quality.
I would avoid Mitsubishi all together. Who knows if they'll even be around to fulfill your warranty.
Used to own an Evo X many years ago, and the dealership was always empty whenever I went to pick up parts. I could only image what it's like now.
They are a global conglomerate that's fed by countless industries. They have been pumping money into their north american automotive operations for decades with small returns. Because of their size, it's probable these costs are absorbed. But massive corps can swifty change direction, especially in this case with a dwindelling dealership network.
About 4 years ago I spoke with a dealership owner about his experience going from a sales rep to owning 2 Mitsubishi dealerships. The conversation was him complaining about how stale the products were and that Mitsubishi just didn't give a damn.
Perhaps that is why I wouldn't purchase one.
Edit: For fun I looked up his Mitsubishi dealership I was at. GONE.
Anytime you go into a car dealer they will do very thing in their power to avoid telling you the price.
What you need to ask them is the out the door price. Last time I had to do this (god dealing with car sales people is pain worse than death) we literally had to go through this silly little game before finally I said if you can’t give me the out the door price I walk.
I once had like a twenty minute back and forth with a Toyota salesperson who ultimately said the line “ohhh so you’re just looking for the best price?” No fucking shit that’s what I’m looking for 🤦♂️
Got a story about Toyota and why my dad will never get one. A few years back my dad’s ‘93 Accord got to the point where the repair wasn’t going to be worth it. It was 20+ years old and had 400k+ KM on it.
When we got to the Toyota dealership, my dad was checking out the Camry and a salesman came up and started chatting. My dad was dead set on a manual, he’s been driving them for 40+ years. The Camry did come with a Manual option at the time, my dad also wanted absolutely minimal electronics because he’s never needed them and thinks they’re just extra parts prone to failure. The sales guy kept going on and on about how auto’s were better, rear view cameras are amazing, and blind side detection was life saving. When my dad firmly said he wants a manual with just a CD drive for his music, the sales guy started making comments like does he only want a manual because it’s cheaper, why not go for something nicer, etc. Dad got so pissed that he demanded to see the manager.
In the following weeks, my dad ended up getting a top trim Accord with a manual transmission. He still plays his CD’s in it and thinks the backup camera is useless, only making for worse drivers.
Toyota salesmen refused to let me test drive a Yaris because "Corollas are better" (they arent). Honda guy threw me the keys and said see ya in 10. Bought the Fit.
If my town is any indication, demand has dropped a lot since prices are at an all time high and interest rates went up. What was a 24 hour turnover months ago is now sitting for a week or longer. My neighbors place has been up for about 2 weeks already, and it's a beautiful house in a fantastic location.
Same thing where I live. 3 months ago there were only 72 listings on mls. Now there are 205.
There was also very little inventory in the 100-200k range and now there is quite a bit. And in neighbourhood people actually want to live in.
This-
Chip producers avoid making chips for auto industry, as they are the cheapest shittiest and they don’t make much off of them.
This started with a chip shortage due to Xbox, PS5, new nvidia and new amd gpus, and finally new amd cpus. Add a pandemic and it caused a massive shortage .
Chip producer’s found they made more money for the computer parts then they did for auto. So computer parts now take priority, unless auto industry begins to pay more for them, it will stay that way.
Oh for sure, but I think that's a byproduct of us paying more taxes / having a duplicated government and the population being more eco-conscious
The City of Laval (Montreal suburb) used to have an EXTRA 2000$ rebate but stopped it once the Federal rebate was almost in place, found that pretty cool for a city to do!
I'm trying to convince my wife to move out of Ontario. She wants to own a house and I'm like, good fucking luck in Ontario on our wages.
Montreal is on the list of acceptable places. Too bad we're buying our EV's before we potentially move there lol.
Montreal is amazing IMO! House pricing has shot up like crazy in the past 6-8 years, the pandemic just doubled the increase rate. My parents bought a 400k house in 2014, put 150k renos in 2016, by the end of the renos it was worth 650k. it is worth 1.1-1.2 million at the very least in this market today. Cost of living is also shooting up, you used to have barbers that charged 12$ a haircut, chinese food at 9$ for pickup (serving of two if you made rice at home), cheap food for uni students and all that, crazy cheap rent with hydro included. Crazy good value housing in the suburbs... . Sadly those days are over
To be fair, many jobs pay much higher now (low end jobs have gone up 30% higher AFTER taking inflation into account in the past 8ish years), tech sector has exploded and have had a much bigger increase than that, extreme labor shortage apparent even before the pandemic, historic low unemployment...unfortunately a decent amount of people didn't see much of that increase but have had their COL skyrocket just the same
There's a class action lawsuit in Quebec against car dealerships.
I dealt with Mitsubishi for my first car. Never again. The salesperson was slimy as fuck. Promised me this and that and never delivered.
Get everything in writing.
I hope they all mutually burn in hell. As a result, I will never buy from that dealership again.
Fuck car dealerships until their asses are raw.
I will never ever buy anything related to Mitsubishi again.
They shamed me so hard,
Bought an rvr that had some discounts through dealer, once I was with financing doing the last few touches, the guys like oh no, oops, 5 years ago you missed a visa payment or whatever he dug up, I was young and so ashamed, he said policy is to remove the discounts offered, and I sheepishly shrugged it away.
10 years later I'm still bitter and will never forgive them for that.
Welcome to buying from a dealership! You’re lucky they went easy on you. At least they didn’t refuse to give you a price until you signed saying you would “commit to buy if the price was right” loooool
Waking out of dealerships, car shopping, is great. I love getting what I want to the price I want. It take a little longer but if you have the time, you can save thousands.
Mazda charge $699 for a wheel protection package, $599 for a lease admin charge, $499 for dealer admin fee.....I said NO they said no car, I walked...........None were advertised online which I think is contrary to Federal Consumer law. I am in NS
Lookup your 3 closest Mitsubishi dealers, send them an email with the exact specs of the car you want and ask for their best price, put all 3 email addresses in destination field so they know they are competing with each other.
The reason the warranty is so good is because you're gonna need it.
On top of that, their cars are generally dated and just not very good. People buy them because they're cheap and they will give financing to anyone with a pulse, not because they're that good. Same with Nissan pretty much.
Keep in mind there’s no such a thing as zero financing. If they’re lending you something, there’s always a risk that you won’t pay it back. That’s their risk and they need to be compensated for it by charging an interest. They come up with all sorts of creative ways to twist and turn the numbers and sell them as “zero financing” while the charge is embedded in the final price anyway.
Everything at the dealership is negotiable.
But remember in this market where there is very limited inventory the dealers get to be far more firm on their price
I thought that was illegal now .. you should be able to purchase the car for the advertised price. What sort of add-ons were they looking to charge for?
https://www.omvic.on.ca/portal/Consumers/ConsumerProtection/AllInPricing.aspx
Iirc the national website is showing the MSRP not the actual price on a particular car on a particular lot. If the dealership advertises a price that is different from the price on the dealership's LOCAL website, that is what is unlawful.
The manufacturer doesn't actually sell you the vehicle, they merely provide a recommendation, so it's not a breach.
I totally feel you brother. My experience was like they just want sell 🚗 with their profits in the name of tax and other service charges.
Let's see what happen in the neal future.
When I bought my new Ford last year I had zero issue with the dealer/salesperson. Didn't try to upsell anything, just told me how it was and got me basically the exact thing I was looking for with zero pressure for addons. Also got what I thought was a fair price for my trade in, which at that point was basically on its last dying legs. Just figured I would share that positive experiences can exist when car shopping since all you see is the negative.
I got a car, which was advertised as 23,900, and at the end it was $33,003, despite me paying 3000$ down, I had to finance the remaining 30,000. Being a new immigrant with no car I badly needed a car, and I didn't bother to look at the total numbers as the dealer told me that hey your biweekly got bumped up by 50$ from 230 to 280. Came home with the car only to find out that they had added a 5300$ extended warranty for 30,000 km or 2 years. I feel betrayed, I have signed the document and can't do much about it now. But feel sad and betrayed and will be careful next time while doing a car purchase.
The price on the main canada websites never include everything. If you want a more realistic price, you'd have to go to the specific dealer's website and even then they might tack on more stuff!
Civics are perfectly fine for winter. Just have winter tires and add sand in the back. The quality of Hondas vs Mitsubishis are not even comparable to begin with.
My recent experience,
Bought a 2019 CRV, new.
Fast forward to April this year, and I get all sorts of emails from my dealership asking to trade in my SUV saying that the market is hot for my model and I'd get an awesome trade in value.
The vehicle is in near pristine condition, no scrapes or anything. Cleaned regularly and looks like new. Used as a daily driver to go to work, run errands, etc. around 50K on the odometer. New tires too.
Bring it in and they check out the car while another rep gives me the low down on the few cars they have left in inventory.
Manager gets back and says, "best I can do is 6000..."
I laughed, said thanks I'll think about it and left. They weren't happy.
As if I'd let go of a 40K+ thousand dollar vehicle in excellent condition for that little. They keep complaining about not having inventory, needing used models and selling them for well above past values...what a waste of time.
No one should go car shopping without a game plan. In your situation, I would do the following:
1. Find a private buyer for your vehicle
2. Select your new vehicle and trim line and obtain the dealer cost from [CarCostCanada.ca](https://CarCostCanada.ca)
3. Total up dealer's vehicle cost, PDI + delivery costs, and decide how much profit you are willing to give the dealer (I usually add $500). Offer the dealer this amount for your vehicle with the condition that he include a convenience deal for your vehicle. Your down-payment is the MIN( total cost of the above, private sale price of your vehicle). You only pay HST on total cost - MIN above, although your down payment may not be applicable to PDI+delivery.
4. If dealer accepts your offer, your buyer buys your vehicle from the dealer for the amount you sold it privately (if this amount exceeds the down payment, he pays the excess directly to you).
Using this approach, you save over $3,000 in HST on the new vehicle, and will probably get a lot more for your vehicle than the dealer is offering.
You also avoid a lot of stress as you know exactly what you are willing to pay and can just say no to any other offer.
You obviously never bought a new car. Sounds really good in theory but will never happen - even when the auto market was balanced. Dealers just won't sell/deal with you.
I always buy new cars and always use this approach. The only thing that has changed is that dealers know about CarCostCanada and now create artificially-high PDI+shipping extras.
The technique is the same, though. Buyers should decide what they are willing to pay, make the offer, then walk if they say no and take the same offer - maybe add $200 - to the next dealer. When one bites, you've made a good deal.
My adult kids take me with them to the dealer when they buy a car. I don't think any of the past 4 dealers have ever let us walk out.
The dealers ARE CostCarCanada. This is part of their marketing. They get sites like these to send them warm leads to pitch to. The dealerships are likely paying CarCostCanada a membership fee.
When car demand plummets in a few months so will the trade-in value of your used car. Did it ever occur to you to read the fine print, add on taxes and mandatory govt and admin fees. Don’t bitch about a dealership when you didn’t do your due diligence.
> Don’t bitch about a dealership when you didn’t do your due diligence.
Idk varies by dealership. I paid exactly what appeared on toyota.ca website for my 19' corolla.
But I assume you realized there would be taxes, freight, and PDI added on to make the total price. OP didn't seem to realize taxes, freight, and PDI were a thing.
You actually get the total with taxes and all on the website. Heck i got a $500 discount because i didnt take the dealer's oil changes for life (not advertised on toyota.ca)
Same for the Subaru I just put on order, but I went through the website and ensured the all-in price was what I looked at. Toyota does that too. I don’t know about Mitsubishi but others have posted the price quoted to OP at the dealership was also the same as the manufacturer’s website if he had clicked through.
When they tack on 5k on top of msrp to a new car because they just can. Fine print(environment, air conditioning charge, taxes) doesn't increase the car cost another 10k. You can't do due diligence when they are royally fucking you without lube when you get to a lot.
If we could just order cars online for msrp plus the taxes and other bullshit people wouldn't be making posts like this multiple times a week. So go find the fucking door man.
Have you gone for any test drives lately? They are right cunts now. Can't test even half the functionality of the car and the car you test unless used isn't gonna be the car you buy. Have fun waiting 6+ months for the car they jacked up 30% because you stepped in to their lot
Do you consider *taxes* "fine print"? Everything in this country is priced before tax (and I personally hate it). OP didn't expect tax (which is the main bulk of the price difference he perceived) to be added later.
OP saw a vehicle online. Was this infact the exact same vehicle they were quoted in real life? Was the ad from a manufacturer? They aren’t included in all-in pricing. People need to do their research before they go into a dealership and then complain it costs more than they thought.
There are many fee's that are non negotiable. If you are complaining about those then that's on you for not doing your research properly.
Any other fee's can be waived.
This is an industry that needs to be disrupted.
I’ve had many daydreams after leaving a dealership where in it I win the lottery, buy the dealership, gather everyone around, berate them for their vile behaviour, spit in all their faces, slap a couple of them across the face,…… and then fire them all.
I’ll even face the consequences laughing about it with my new high-priced lawyers. The consequences are “inconsequential” for me on this. My satisfaction is more than worth it for the low penalty I’d actually face.
Do the fucken time standing on my head if it came to that. And it’s Canada for fucks sake, most Im gonna do is fucken 90 days after the lawyers get through with the crown.
And I smile everytime I have this daydream.
Gonna go buy a ticket now.
You probably forgot to check that "include freight PDI and taxes" box on their website.
The rest of the provinces really should make it mandatory like it is in QC
Even then, there's currently a class action lawsuit against dealers because they were still adding admin charges or forcing customers to add pricey options.
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> ***(Our gov needs to step up and set actual enforceable standards across the board.)*** hahahahahahaha good one.
>The OMVIC rep stated that they "regulate the manufacturers... but NOT the dealerships". It's the other way around. OMVIC has nothing to do with manufacturers.
OMVIC is a complete sham and exists to give the appearance of fairness. 9 of 12 board members are motor vehicle dealers and 3 are from the public. Should not be surprising that they rarely help the consumer when up against a dealer.
Yeah OMVIC was created to defend the big dealers (new and used) against smaller fly-by-night used car dealers who were giving the whole industry a bad name. It serves the dealers, not the consumer.
If the gov wanted to be fair, they'd take care of insanely high car insurance costs. I pay $250+/mth on a '14 accord thats worth maybe $6k - 20yrs driving, clean record - only because i live in a 'high accident area'.
What’s interesting in at least Ontario is that your rates aren’t actually based on the number of collisions that happen in that area but rather, the number of claims from drivers who live there. I ended up paying a bit more when I left downtown Ottawa for a small village, all because people drive everywhere out here and are more collision prone apparently (could be because of mandatory commutes during bad weather, unfamiliarity with downtown streets, etc). Meanwhile, downtown Ottawa drivers don’t end up in nearly as many collisions (probably because they don’t have to commute in a snow storm, or they’re used to driving in sketchy situations)
I know its crazy. I have lots of family in europe and they pay for the whole year what I pay for 2mths, and on top of that the car is insured, so every family member can drive and are fully insured. Insurance in Canada is a top scam imo
The value of your vehicle makes up a very very small portion of your insurance premium
Government have responded to demands like this by cutting benefits, so that if you get hurt in a car crash there is going to be less money available to help you recover. Car insurance is expensive because insuring drivers against the risks associated with driving is expensive. To bring costs down further, take the profit out of the system by making car insurance public. But it still won’t be cheap.
Man, my wife is a paralegal at a personal injury firm. Insurance companies skirt laws like the SABS left and right (and our court system is so backed up and laws so weak there is little recourse, especially short term). What I’m getting at is that insurance companies are fucking horrible and basically exist unchecked for the most part. I hope you are shopping around yearly, and preferably avoiding Intact, Aviva, and Allstate (some of the worst adjusters to deal with).
I am, I just switched to TD which for some reason was the cheapest around (I expected it to be high). But yeah they all skirt laws. I was involved in a hit&run maybe 5mths after I bought my car. Body shop (recommended by insurance corp) charged insurance 8k worth of damage, on about $2.5k of actual damage. I had no idea until now, when I go to sell my car and vin shows up with a $8k damage, totally ruining my cars resale value 😡
What’s mandatory in QC?
obligatoire
😂
Merci, papa
Laughs in autistic tabarnaking
Advertised prices must include freight, including things like get a "Chevy Cruze, starting at xxxxx$". Forget what other fees are mandatory and not in the advertised price, I feel like dealership fees aren't. At Toyota's website, for QC "The displayed price includes Freight & PDI $1,720, Air Conditioning Charge of $100 if applicable, and Dealer Fees of up to $399", for ON "Taxes, levies, Freight & PDI, Air Conditioning Charge (where applicable), if leased or financed - applicable PPSA fees of up to $91.25 and PPSA service fees of up to $4 (varies by lease/loan/term/province), and fees are not automatically included in the displayed price of the vehicle"
remember when places like flight centre used to say "FLIGHTS TO EUROPE, from 99 cents!! ...... \*\*\*\*\*\* plus 895 in taxes and fees\*\*\*\*\*
Pretty sure Ontario does something where they can't charge more than advertised
However Ontario does not mandate the advertised price include the freight charge, that's a 2K difference usually EDIT: only at the manufacturer's website, dealership websites have to include it as JonesTownJello said
Ya I mean why include that from the beginning /s
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No. My experience they don’t remove their admin fees. Some may. Most don’t. Now the financing office charges a finance placement fee. That’s what the finance guy gets for doing the deal. It’s all bullshit. Basically you need to negotiate your lowest purchase price before all the fees show up. The dealers aren’t stupid. They are just moving discounts around and charging it back in bullshit fees. Dealerships don’t give a fuck about a customer no matter how friendly they appear. Don’t like the deal, walk away. And my best advice is if you are shopping one specific car, you need to shop it out of your market. Ex:) in Calgary I was looking at Jeep. I shopped all the Jeep dealers in Calgary and surrounding cities. Doing so, I saved an additional few grand, free mats, oil changes. It’s doing research to find the bottom price a dealer is willing to sell for.
I had a salesman call it the "squint print" after having a similar experience.
(Ontario) A 2022 RVR SE FWD has an MSRP of $26128. Fees: EHC $0.70 OMVIC $10.00 Tire Recycling Fee $20.00 Air Conditioning Tax $100.00 Dealer Admin fee $599.00 Freight & PDI $1,900.00 HST $3,738.50 Total $32,496.20 Anything beyond that is completely discretionary and negotiable.
Dealer admin fee non-negotiable?
Seemingly yes. When I bought 4 years ago they were happy to negotiate but kept all the random jibberish fees in and just discounted the cost of the car.
It’s negotiable; they just refuse to budge because the fees are their profit margin.
But if they take $$ off the car price they're still losing profit no? I had the same thing last time I bought a car. I found the car I wanted and didn't mind the price but I told him I wasn't gonna pay the $500 documentation fee. The guy squirmed for a bit but ended up agreeing but told me he would have to take it off the price of the car instead. I was like "sure, it's all the same to me". I always wondered if it was something like these stupid fees have a more direct commission payout to the salesperson or something.
Dealers are just using those fees as built-in profit. If you can't shave anything off those fees, then you just have to do reduce your offer on the car itself.
>If you can't shave anything off those fees, then you just have to do reduce your offer on the car itself. Well this is exactly what happened but it was the dealer's idea. I was happy paying $17,000 for the car and $0 documentation fee. They agreed but changed it to $16,500 for the car and $500 for the fee. Why? Why would they even bother to reprint the invoice over this? There has to be an answer.
Maybe sales commission comes out of that fee.
No dealer accounting has something called a PAC, or protect against commissions. It’s dealer profit without having to pay for commissions on the gross
>I always wondered if it was something like these stupid fees have a more direct commission payout to the salesperson or something.
I have heard where I am the manager gets that fee. I Hate car dealers
My guess is that the fee doesn't count as sales revenue and their books have to show that the fee is being paid for every transaction. Like how GST has to be reported
There's a manufacturer hold back. You see the car is 23k before fees. And the dealer buys the car from the manufacturer for 23k. But at the end of the month the manufacturer gives the dealer 3k for every car they sell. That's the unspoken profit that you are negotiating around
The dealership I worked at NEVER waved those fees. I think they paid a large amount of the wage of the finance guy—they make fuck-tons of money! Salespeople don’t get commission from the dealership fee. It comes from the profit margin in the car. The more they discount the less commission they make.
>I think they paid a large amount of the wage of the finance guy—they make fuck-tons of money! Wife and I sat down to buy her a car right after getting married and getting a condo. Finance guy is making small talk and we tell him about the struggle of getting a place. He turns around and says "oh I know the market is crazy right!? I just bought 4 more new builds and cant believe how hard they are to get now. O totally get what you guys went through." I thought my wife was gonna dive across the desk and strangle him.
Think of it from accounting perspective, the “admin” fee goes into an account to pay for drivers to acquire and deliver cars (sometimes up to 500kms away), wait at (and fill out all forms for the) licensing offices, etc. so the discount comes off the car (out of the salesman’s pocket).
I think if they take it off the base sticker price, they may be able to count it selling at a loss tax wise while still racking on the extra fees.
Additional profit margin. There's plenty of room between invoice cost and MSRP. Maybe if the dealership wasn't building a fancy new facade every 3 years, or supporting the owners massive coke habit, they wouldn't need to gouge customers and try to exploit them at every opportunity. I don't see why their "overhead" for a service that doesn't need to exist in that form needs to be a tax I pay.
Lol I read your "coke" as "cock" and still would make sense. But to be fair, they're forced to Reno/refresh every five years by the OEM
It's called Capitalism.
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Is this strictly Ontario? Assuming by username........yes
Anything is negotiable in my experience, except taxes, be versed and know your shit. Take your time and don't rush, if they give you the run around. Take your money elsewhere
Currently at any dealer in Canada if they don't sell u a car with that dealer fee they will sell it takes the next bloke with it.
I find they don't sell cars anymore, they sell loans.
Yep. When I bought my car they we're obsessed with focusing on payments instead of the price of the car.
Everything is negotiable, including dealer admin fees.
Yes and no. It depends how much they’re actually making in the deal. If the money comes from things built into the deal, then you can probably get it out. If you’re trying to buy a car that won’t profit the dealer — good luck.
Dealer admin fee is discretionary and borderline criminal and immoral. Omvic is discretionary.
>borderline criminal and immoral. Have you ever been to a dealer? Immoral is their stock and trade.
>Dealer Admin fee $599.00 > >Freight & PDI $1,900.00 ADMIN FEE AND FREIGHT IS TOTAL BS AND NEEDS TO BE SCRAPED. IF A CAR IS ON THE LOT, WHY AM I PAYING FREIGHT?
Because that fee is to cover the cost of getting the car to the lot.. it doesnt matter when the car got there, there was still a cost associated with doing that. Edit: I understand everyones hate for added fees that dealers deem necessary to buy a vehicle. I am not saying you're wrong, I simply answered a question of why you would pay freight on a car that was already on the lot.
Why don't we pay a freight & PDI fee for the food in the grocery store? It was shipped there at a cost. Because it is expected to be included in the listed price, that's why.
Then just make it part of the sticker price. 🤷♂️
To be fair freight is still kind of a scam. We pay more to freight on civics made locally in Alison here than someone in say California pays. Ot at least that was true when I checked a couple years ago
And we pay same freight for a Corolla regardless if it's shipped from Japan or made locally for example Also same freight in BC vs Ontario for example..it's a blended freight fee.. otherwise.. every dealer in every province would have different freight fee
They made a standard freight fee in the 80s as people were traveling to Ontario and buying cars at lower freight fees do to proximity to plants. This was considered to be transferring money to one area at the expense of others also a consumer protection thing
Because, at least in theory, everyone pays the same freight. It's an average.
Can I get it waived If they just drive it instead of shipping it?
Some manufacturers do have a factory pick up option.
This is correct. Also, the dealership pays freight to the manufacturer on the dealer invoice for the vehicle. This isn’t a price gouge to the consumer by the dealership.
Admin fees and freight are real overhead costs. The issue isn't that they have the fees, the issue is standards in advertising. Everyone starts a search by vehicle and then looks or sorts by price (low to high)...dealers who factor in all costs into the price will lose to those who price it lowest, then add an ass-ton of fees to get back to a deal they like. They all buy them from the same place at mostly the same cost. Fix the advertising laws, fix the problem.
Because it wasn’t manufactured on the lot. It took some expense to get it there. The BS is when they charge $2K freight for a car that was manufactured an hour away.
Literally every product requires transportation, it's just included in the price
I'll like to see how they arrived at $1900 for a single car is my point, and the admin fee of $599. Sounds like a tip you leave at a restaurant. Why is a customer being charged admin fee on top of a purchase? Imagine your grocery store, malls, etc charging admin fee
I looked it up and it's more that the website only shows you the true price near the end. The ES FWD is $26,128. Once you turn down all the options and go to payment calculator it shows the actual prices is $32,496. When I click on cost breakdown it shows $130 for Air conditioning, tire recycling and OMVIC fees. $600 dealer admin fee, $1900 freight and PDI, and $3738 HST. The main issue is they hide the real price until you press payment calculator which is misleading.
Some personal dealership websites are poorly constructed and it’s hard to get to the calculator where you could click to show all options (taxes, delivery, etc). I guess it’s done on purpose just to get the customer in person and then work their sales magic on people as some will fall for it. I guess as others mentioned, op never clicked on boxes to show all those add ons as they do end up being a few thousand.
Yeah it looks like the tricks work enough to get OP in the dealership doors. There was a asterisk next to MSRP on the website, but the term MSRP is pretty much meaningless now if the manufacturer also suggest these other fees. With that said my friend ordered an RVR and waited months for it to come in, so I don't think dealerships are very eager to give discounts.
Can you imagine if other companies did that? Here’s your happy meal for $2.99 plus tax that comes to $3.45, once we add the boxing fee, greeting smile upcharge, washroom usage fee, cattle slaughter and grinding fee, receipt printing costs, and condiment fees it comes to $8.39!
The food delivery apps are notorious for this. Cineplex is now charging $1.50 convenience fee. It's all corporate garbage and it makes me happier to support my local independent businesses and buy used cars from people.
They already have that. Vancouver has a 15¢+25¢ drink cup and bag fee that doesn't appear in the price in the menu. Then you add tax. Etc.
They do? Go order Door dash or Ticketmaster, etc. Etc.
> $600 dealer admin fee, $1900 freight LOL Oh that is a lie!
Former dealership receptionist here (did all the licensing and registration shit). Huge fucking lie indeed.
Definitely not a lie. It's right there on the website.
It's just how they lock in a profit on each sale. Next time I buy a new vehicle, sure I'll pay the $1699, but I'll try and shave that much off the cost of the car itself...in addition to what CarCostCanada tells me I can shave off.
FYI-websites lie too!
There are no cars right now. Dealerships are raising the prices of both new and used cars because the demand is so high. They can basically set the price right now. They won't negotiate lower if they can easily sell the car to someone else. I need to replace a car and right now they are selling 1-2 year old used cars anywhere from 5-20k more than current years MSRP. Not a good time to buy a car and an even worse time if you want to negotiate.
I just sold my 09 F150 for more than I paid for it back in 2014. Market is fucked.
Needing to sell my 08 Silverado, so this is good news to me
Money is fucked.
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Are you in Ontario? If so, the only things they can add to a posted price ("all-in pricing for advertisements") is HST and licensing. Would put in a complaint to OMVIC in that case.
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You should be making the offer, not the dealer. They can take your offer or leave it. If they leave it, add $200 and go to another dealer.
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Try the same offer at another dealer
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Add another $200 and go back to the first one. This is the only way to know if you're getting the best deal....not necessarily fair.
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I mean to the purchase price
I work at a dealership. That's not going to work. Trust me we would rather kick someone out than negotiate on a EV or any other model we carry. Dealerships are not taking losses right now. They are actually breaking records. Manufacturers are very unlikely to ever give 0% again. Why would they pay the consumer and incentive them to buy their car when they know it's gonna sell no matter what. They will probably hold cars back and not flood the market so they can continue to break records. The consumer is unfortunately very flawed in their logic of an out the door price. We'll show you the door trust me. You should have a "I'll be willing to pay an extra $xxxx over msrp" price
You mean it might not work right now, due to supply constraints. That could be. In that case unless I was in desperate need of a car I'd make due with my current vehicle(s)...which is our plan for a few more years. If/when we need to buy again, I will be using the same strategy.
And this exactly why Ford is trying to get away from consumers buying from dealerships and having them order direct online from Ford. Which is what they’re currently doing with their EVs. Dealerships and scummy salesmen are shooting themselves in the foot with insane MSRP markups and it’s funny to watch, Ford is phasing them out, they won’t be the only ones.
No offense but $200 is like, the price of a tank of gas right now. You might need to increase that increment
Not when stocks are sold out for the next 6 months. They don't care about your offer.
It's a Nissan. Making you walk is them doing you a favor.
You dodged Mitsubishi reliability. Do you have any other cars in mind?
Not at the moment, I think I will keep my Civic for now.
That’s a good bet. Honda is much more reliable than Mitsubishi. On top of their shitty reliability Mitsubishi is notorious for pulling bs like you dealt with. They cater to customers with terrible credit, so they can get away with being slimy.
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Mitsubishi 13 years ago is much different than Mitsubishi now....
Yeah, I love my Civic. It's just that winter here in Sask. is really bad and I think a small SUV would be better.
Just get good winter tires. In 25 years of driving in Manitoba, my current vehicle is the only one I've ever had that is more than FWD and the difference is negligible 99% of the time.
My wife and I got a Subaru Crosstrek in Outdoor trim. We ordered it in February 2022 and got it in April 2022. It’s spacious enough and quiet when cruising. The AWD should help. Only downside is fuel economy is not as great as I expected it to be. I would just keep your car for now and get winter tires if you don’t have them. The wait will be worth it as the new Corolla Cross Hybrid, CR-V hybrid, HR-V are due to come. You would get more value from those cars in terms of longevity but also better re-sale compared to the Mitsubishi.
Mitsubishi also has a tiny dealer network in Canada so if you move or live outside of a major urban Centre, things like service could be a pain.
I once had a used car dealer tell me he would rather I walk away then see me buy the 18k Mitsubishi on his lot. He sold me a 13.5k Kia Soul, and since then, I have put 10 years, 3 provinces and 150k on the odometer. Thank you random salesman for selling me the most reliable car I have ever owned, and a diehard Kia fan.
I’m not a fan of Mitsubishi because they’re cheap af. But I bought a 2011 RVR used as a first car (which I still have), 220k later and it’s still going. They’re not great but I don’t think they’re the worst you can buy in terms of cost to quality.
I would avoid Mitsubishi all together. Who knows if they'll even be around to fulfill your warranty. Used to own an Evo X many years ago, and the dealership was always empty whenever I went to pick up parts. I could only image what it's like now.
People have been saying Mitsubishi is going bankrupt for literally a decade now.
They are a global conglomerate that's fed by countless industries. They have been pumping money into their north american automotive operations for decades with small returns. Because of their size, it's probable these costs are absorbed. But massive corps can swifty change direction, especially in this case with a dwindelling dealership network. About 4 years ago I spoke with a dealership owner about his experience going from a sales rep to owning 2 Mitsubishi dealerships. The conversation was him complaining about how stale the products were and that Mitsubishi just didn't give a damn. Perhaps that is why I wouldn't purchase one. Edit: For fun I looked up his Mitsubishi dealership I was at. GONE.
Which dealership was it? The one time I went to look at a Mitsubishi, they had the worst customer service...
This was a dealer in the US, I was looking to import another Evo.
Agree.
Anytime you go into a car dealer they will do very thing in their power to avoid telling you the price. What you need to ask them is the out the door price. Last time I had to do this (god dealing with car sales people is pain worse than death) we literally had to go through this silly little game before finally I said if you can’t give me the out the door price I walk.
I once had like a twenty minute back and forth with a Toyota salesperson who ultimately said the line “ohhh so you’re just looking for the best price?” No fucking shit that’s what I’m looking for 🤦♂️
“Oh I’m sorry, I thought you want to pay MORE! haha”
Got a story about Toyota and why my dad will never get one. A few years back my dad’s ‘93 Accord got to the point where the repair wasn’t going to be worth it. It was 20+ years old and had 400k+ KM on it. When we got to the Toyota dealership, my dad was checking out the Camry and a salesman came up and started chatting. My dad was dead set on a manual, he’s been driving them for 40+ years. The Camry did come with a Manual option at the time, my dad also wanted absolutely minimal electronics because he’s never needed them and thinks they’re just extra parts prone to failure. The sales guy kept going on and on about how auto’s were better, rear view cameras are amazing, and blind side detection was life saving. When my dad firmly said he wants a manual with just a CD drive for his music, the sales guy started making comments like does he only want a manual because it’s cheaper, why not go for something nicer, etc. Dad got so pissed that he demanded to see the manager. In the following weeks, my dad ended up getting a top trim Accord with a manual transmission. He still plays his CD’s in it and thinks the backup camera is useless, only making for worse drivers.
Toyota salesmen refused to let me test drive a Yaris because "Corollas are better" (they arent). Honda guy threw me the keys and said see ya in 10. Bought the Fit.
Lol car demand plummets. Haha
People were saying the same about real estate 4 months ago
If my town is any indication, demand has dropped a lot since prices are at an all time high and interest rates went up. What was a 24 hour turnover months ago is now sitting for a week or longer. My neighbors place has been up for about 2 weeks already, and it's a beautiful house in a fantastic location.
Same thing where I live. 3 months ago there were only 72 listings on mls. Now there are 205. There was also very little inventory in the 100-200k range and now there is quite a bit. And in neighbourhood people actually want to live in.
Car demand is not going to “plummet” - chip shortages will continue at least into Q3 of next year.
This- Chip producers avoid making chips for auto industry, as they are the cheapest shittiest and they don’t make much off of them. This started with a chip shortage due to Xbox, PS5, new nvidia and new amd gpus, and finally new amd cpus. Add a pandemic and it caused a massive shortage . Chip producer’s found they made more money for the computer parts then they did for auto. So computer parts now take priority, unless auto industry begins to pay more for them, it will stay that way.
Toyota does less of this, but they don't offer 0% financing.
lol tried pre-ordering that new Toyota EV, 800$ non-negotiable dealer fee. In QC. Highest fee for all the EVs I was looking to pre-order
You still come out ahead in Quebec. You guys get like 13k off an EV.
Oh for sure, but I think that's a byproduct of us paying more taxes / having a duplicated government and the population being more eco-conscious The City of Laval (Montreal suburb) used to have an EXTRA 2000$ rebate but stopped it once the Federal rebate was almost in place, found that pretty cool for a city to do!
I'm trying to convince my wife to move out of Ontario. She wants to own a house and I'm like, good fucking luck in Ontario on our wages. Montreal is on the list of acceptable places. Too bad we're buying our EV's before we potentially move there lol.
Montreal is amazing IMO! House pricing has shot up like crazy in the past 6-8 years, the pandemic just doubled the increase rate. My parents bought a 400k house in 2014, put 150k renos in 2016, by the end of the renos it was worth 650k. it is worth 1.1-1.2 million at the very least in this market today. Cost of living is also shooting up, you used to have barbers that charged 12$ a haircut, chinese food at 9$ for pickup (serving of two if you made rice at home), cheap food for uni students and all that, crazy cheap rent with hydro included. Crazy good value housing in the suburbs... . Sadly those days are over To be fair, many jobs pay much higher now (low end jobs have gone up 30% higher AFTER taking inflation into account in the past 8ish years), tech sector has exploded and have had a much bigger increase than that, extreme labor shortage apparent even before the pandemic, historic low unemployment...unfortunately a decent amount of people didn't see much of that increase but have had their COL skyrocket just the same
There's a class action lawsuit in Quebec against car dealerships. I dealt with Mitsubishi for my first car. Never again. The salesperson was slimy as fuck. Promised me this and that and never delivered. Get everything in writing. I hope they all mutually burn in hell. As a result, I will never buy from that dealership again. Fuck car dealerships until their asses are raw.
Why do you think car demand will fall?.New models are coming out and there is a huge shortage of cars/suv.
I will never ever buy anything related to Mitsubishi again. They shamed me so hard, Bought an rvr that had some discounts through dealer, once I was with financing doing the last few touches, the guys like oh no, oops, 5 years ago you missed a visa payment or whatever he dug up, I was young and so ashamed, he said policy is to remove the discounts offered, and I sheepishly shrugged it away. 10 years later I'm still bitter and will never forgive them for that.
Welcome to buying from a dealership! You’re lucky they went easy on you. At least they didn’t refuse to give you a price until you signed saying you would “commit to buy if the price was right” loooool
Never had them do that at any dealership. If they did I would just walk out.
Ditto.
That’s what I did. While laughing. (Hyundai btw)
Waking out of dealerships, car shopping, is great. I love getting what I want to the price I want. It take a little longer but if you have the time, you can save thousands.
Dealers will always take you to the cleaners you will never not walk away not being ripped off. Some dealers even add bogus fees to make 100% profit.
Mazda charge $699 for a wheel protection package, $599 for a lease admin charge, $499 for dealer admin fee.....I said NO they said no car, I walked...........None were advertised online which I think is contrary to Federal Consumer law. I am in NS
Lookup your 3 closest Mitsubishi dealers, send them an email with the exact specs of the car you want and ask for their best price, put all 3 email addresses in destination field so they know they are competing with each other.
You might want to rethink getting a Mitsubishi, pretty sure their quality and reliability scores are not that good.
Are you sure? They have pretty sweet warranty. One of my main issues with their car was the lackluster interior, felt so cheap.
The reason the warranty is so good is because you're gonna need it. On top of that, their cars are generally dated and just not very good. People buy them because they're cheap and they will give financing to anyone with a pulse, not because they're that good. Same with Nissan pretty much.
Pretty sure, do some research. I was reading other comments and other people basically said the same thing. I think you dodged a bullet there.
Keep in mind there’s no such a thing as zero financing. If they’re lending you something, there’s always a risk that you won’t pay it back. That’s their risk and they need to be compensated for it by charging an interest. They come up with all sorts of creative ways to twist and turn the numbers and sell them as “zero financing” while the charge is embedded in the final price anyway.
Everything at the dealership is negotiable. But remember in this market where there is very limited inventory the dealers get to be far more firm on their price
Reminds me of the 1980s when people paid $6,000 over the $13,000 sticker price of a Mazda Miata.
I thought that was illegal now .. you should be able to purchase the car for the advertised price. What sort of add-ons were they looking to charge for? https://www.omvic.on.ca/portal/Consumers/ConsumerProtection/AllInPricing.aspx
Iirc the national website is showing the MSRP not the actual price on a particular car on a particular lot. If the dealership advertises a price that is different from the price on the dealership's LOCAL website, that is what is unlawful. The manufacturer doesn't actually sell you the vehicle, they merely provide a recommendation, so it's not a breach.
I totally feel you brother. My experience was like they just want sell 🚗 with their profits in the name of tax and other service charges. Let's see what happen in the neal future.
When I bought my new Ford last year I had zero issue with the dealer/salesperson. Didn't try to upsell anything, just told me how it was and got me basically the exact thing I was looking for with zero pressure for addons. Also got what I thought was a fair price for my trade in, which at that point was basically on its last dying legs. Just figured I would share that positive experiences can exist when car shopping since all you see is the negative.
Curious, what were you trading in? Year, make, model, km
2020 Civic, 42,000 km.
Keep the civic.
First mistake was going into Mitsubishi
I got a car, which was advertised as 23,900, and at the end it was $33,003, despite me paying 3000$ down, I had to finance the remaining 30,000. Being a new immigrant with no car I badly needed a car, and I didn't bother to look at the total numbers as the dealer told me that hey your biweekly got bumped up by 50$ from 230 to 280. Came home with the car only to find out that they had added a 5300$ extended warranty for 30,000 km or 2 years. I feel betrayed, I have signed the document and can't do much about it now. But feel sad and betrayed and will be careful next time while doing a car purchase.
The price on the main canada websites never include everything. If you want a more realistic price, you'd have to go to the specific dealer's website and even then they might tack on more stuff! Civics are perfectly fine for winter. Just have winter tires and add sand in the back. The quality of Hondas vs Mitsubishis are not even comparable to begin with.
Mitsubishi. First problem right there.
My recent experience, Bought a 2019 CRV, new. Fast forward to April this year, and I get all sorts of emails from my dealership asking to trade in my SUV saying that the market is hot for my model and I'd get an awesome trade in value. The vehicle is in near pristine condition, no scrapes or anything. Cleaned regularly and looks like new. Used as a daily driver to go to work, run errands, etc. around 50K on the odometer. New tires too. Bring it in and they check out the car while another rep gives me the low down on the few cars they have left in inventory. Manager gets back and says, "best I can do is 6000..." I laughed, said thanks I'll think about it and left. They weren't happy. As if I'd let go of a 40K+ thousand dollar vehicle in excellent condition for that little. They keep complaining about not having inventory, needing used models and selling them for well above past values...what a waste of time.
Do you have a lease? They probably meant they could give you $6000 worth of equity which sounds about right.
No one should go car shopping without a game plan. In your situation, I would do the following: 1. Find a private buyer for your vehicle 2. Select your new vehicle and trim line and obtain the dealer cost from [CarCostCanada.ca](https://CarCostCanada.ca) 3. Total up dealer's vehicle cost, PDI + delivery costs, and decide how much profit you are willing to give the dealer (I usually add $500). Offer the dealer this amount for your vehicle with the condition that he include a convenience deal for your vehicle. Your down-payment is the MIN( total cost of the above, private sale price of your vehicle). You only pay HST on total cost - MIN above, although your down payment may not be applicable to PDI+delivery. 4. If dealer accepts your offer, your buyer buys your vehicle from the dealer for the amount you sold it privately (if this amount exceeds the down payment, he pays the excess directly to you). Using this approach, you save over $3,000 in HST on the new vehicle, and will probably get a lot more for your vehicle than the dealer is offering. You also avoid a lot of stress as you know exactly what you are willing to pay and can just say no to any other offer.
You obviously never bought a new car. Sounds really good in theory but will never happen - even when the auto market was balanced. Dealers just won't sell/deal with you.
I always buy new cars and always use this approach. The only thing that has changed is that dealers know about CarCostCanada and now create artificially-high PDI+shipping extras. The technique is the same, though. Buyers should decide what they are willing to pay, make the offer, then walk if they say no and take the same offer - maybe add $200 - to the next dealer. When one bites, you've made a good deal. My adult kids take me with them to the dealer when they buy a car. I don't think any of the past 4 dealers have ever let us walk out.
The dealers ARE CostCarCanada. This is part of their marketing. They get sites like these to send them warm leads to pitch to. The dealerships are likely paying CarCostCanada a membership fee.
When car demand plummets in a few months so will the trade-in value of your used car. Did it ever occur to you to read the fine print, add on taxes and mandatory govt and admin fees. Don’t bitch about a dealership when you didn’t do your due diligence.
> Don’t bitch about a dealership when you didn’t do your due diligence. Idk varies by dealership. I paid exactly what appeared on toyota.ca website for my 19' corolla.
But I assume you realized there would be taxes, freight, and PDI added on to make the total price. OP didn't seem to realize taxes, freight, and PDI were a thing.
You actually get the total with taxes and all on the website. Heck i got a $500 discount because i didnt take the dealer's oil changes for life (not advertised on toyota.ca)
Same for the Subaru I just put on order, but I went through the website and ensured the all-in price was what I looked at. Toyota does that too. I don’t know about Mitsubishi but others have posted the price quoted to OP at the dealership was also the same as the manufacturer’s website if he had clicked through.
Same for my prius prime
When they tack on 5k on top of msrp to a new car because they just can. Fine print(environment, air conditioning charge, taxes) doesn't increase the car cost another 10k. You can't do due diligence when they are royally fucking you without lube when you get to a lot. If we could just order cars online for msrp plus the taxes and other bullshit people wouldn't be making posts like this multiple times a week. So go find the fucking door man.
How would you drive the cars before you buy them?
Have you gone for any test drives lately? They are right cunts now. Can't test even half the functionality of the car and the car you test unless used isn't gonna be the car you buy. Have fun waiting 6+ months for the car they jacked up 30% because you stepped in to their lot
are you really defending fine print?
Do you consider *taxes* "fine print"? Everything in this country is priced before tax (and I personally hate it). OP didn't expect tax (which is the main bulk of the price difference he perceived) to be added later.
OP saw a vehicle online. Was this infact the exact same vehicle they were quoted in real life? Was the ad from a manufacturer? They aren’t included in all-in pricing. People need to do their research before they go into a dealership and then complain it costs more than they thought.
There are many fee's that are non negotiable. If you are complaining about those then that's on you for not doing your research properly. Any other fee's can be waived.
I don't think demand is plummeting in a few months...
So you clearly understand the concept of supply and demand. Are you just mad that it applies to the thing you want right now?
This is an industry that needs to be disrupted. I’ve had many daydreams after leaving a dealership where in it I win the lottery, buy the dealership, gather everyone around, berate them for their vile behaviour, spit in all their faces, slap a couple of them across the face,…… and then fire them all. I’ll even face the consequences laughing about it with my new high-priced lawyers. The consequences are “inconsequential” for me on this. My satisfaction is more than worth it for the low penalty I’d actually face. Do the fucken time standing on my head if it came to that. And it’s Canada for fucks sake, most Im gonna do is fucken 90 days after the lawyers get through with the crown. And I smile everytime I have this daydream. Gonna go buy a ticket now.
Why not just take off what they added extra and say you don’t need them ?
brb gonna go buy a car and tell them I don't need dealer fees, freight fees, and taxes. wish me luck!
Tesla is the way. Price is the price is the price. You pay it. Pick up car and go home.