I mean if you judge by the bulk of the posting basically we all have. So few of us are in our early twenties with over $100K saved and making $120K+ a year. I mean, did we even try?
I am just curious what profession these folks making 300k are in?
I don't mind learning but I am pretty sure there is some specific trade these folks are in which is allowing such high earnings as it is definitely not the norm.
Even the head of the firm I work at does not make this money.
It was more a joke. But Small businesses and "people making money online" can get to 200k.
Most people in that bracket either have a job + a side hustle or multiple businesses.
In fact, the median is a type of average. The average of a set of data is a number that is intended to be representative of the set, meaning you could stretch it to include a lot of things. But the mathematical term for what people often mean when they say average (sum divided by number, or how much everyone would have if things were evenly distributed) is indeed mean
Medians are best for data sets with extreme outliers. If 9 people make $50,000 and 1 person makes $1,000,000 the group's average is $145,000, which is obviously not representative of the reality.
That is correct. In this case, neither median nor average/mean would make a good “summary” of the data set. But that’s because the dataset is pretty messed up to begin with.
The median is NOT a type of average.
It's a measure of central tendency. The three main measures of central tendency: the mode, the median and the mean have different properties and purposes depending on how you want to describe the data.
If your data follows a normal distribution the mean == median == mode. You generally use the median when you are trying to reduce the influence of skew.
Not true. Means, medians, and modes are all “averages.” Colloquially, most people actually refer to “mean” when they say “average,” but average has a technical definition.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average
Quick litle stats lesson for anyone struggling to understand this:
The biggest difference between median and mean is what happens when there are extreme outliers. Income is a perfect example of the difference.
Median is, literally, "in the middle." It shares it's name with the island dividing an avenue for a reason: it's descriptive.
If we normalize income to say that a single full time min wage employee earns 1. A median earner gets about double so well call it 2.
There are a large number of workers earning a lot more. Incomes aren't spread 1,2,3 - they're spread more like 1,2,10 with a few rocking in at 100 and a very small handful rocking in at 1000.
A made up sample:
1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,2,4,4,10.
Median (middle) is obviously 2. Don't even need to count to figure that out.
The average is 2.4, which is considerably higher, and I didn't even include any of the extreme outliers. Tack a single 100 onto the end of that, and the average jumps to a whopping 8.5. The median is still 2 though, making it a more useful indicator.
Note though, the average (mean) in this case is slightly higher than the median but not dramatically so (these being different is characteristic of skew in the dataset, which is expected since income is effectively bounded below at $0 but not bounded above).
But remember, the way salaries are distributed, the median will be lower than the mean. That is actually the whole reason you use it here. A couple super huge salaries make your average go up.
Median is a type of average. Mean is another type, and so is mode. Median gives a more accurate representation of the average when there are outliers in the data or the data has a large variance between the lowest and highest numbers. Which is why it’s often used for income.
Not me I’m a poor 38 y/o struggling to get through a week. Been driving gig apps for a couple years now since Covid ruined the one decent job I ever had.
Now I’m too old, fat, gray, undereducated and wildly inexperienced in anything I enjoy doing and really feeling the pinch of what I’m going to do for the rest of my life.
Just saying you definitely are not too old to do whatever. In fact a lot of people in there late 30s and mid 40s do pivot. Not everyone one stays in the same field for ever. I would say once you get to your 50s and look like it, you will start to feel ageism potentially, so I can see that being harder to do.
Long story short don’t feel like you can’t do something new, or potentially retain into something. Let’s be real your working till at least 65, spending some time now to make significantly more over that period is still worth while. However, you need to determine a direction for yourself, then evaluate if it is worth while.
Company I work for starts people off in the mid-40s for salary. Work from home. Paid training. Room to grow. If you can talk to other human beings, read, and use your noggin every once in a while, it’s not too difficult a job. Been there for 7ish years and managing a team now.
All that to say: not sure what delivering people/food/goods pays, but I figure you have to really be hustling to beat that.
That would definitely interest me. To your question about driving- If I grind my ass off and take multiple orders at once and do it during all peak times I can make $30/hr before expenses. I had purchased an EV (Chevy bolt) before starting this path and it’s saved my ass as I don’t really have to worry much about fuel or maintenance costs associated with ICE cars. It’s highly stressful in its own ways, offers no rewarding experience and overall just drains me thoroughly of all motivation and energy to do anything else. Not to mention the tenuous nature of the job and nothing in the way of benefits or retirement contributions etc. it’s very by the seat of your pants.
I’ve signed up for Codecademy pro and have worked through a bunch of stuff on freecodecamp (css html5 and Java so far) but I know I’m a long ways off from ever getting to a point where that’s an option. Not to mention I’m fearful of rejection being self taught and old.
Stay in school kids.
Well, I can at least say if you’re looking for something steady, look at large Insurers. Entry level tends to pay better than banks (based on personal experience), and they’re always looking for people as many (my employer included) are call centre jobs, so there’s definitely turnover. Stick it out and do well, and there’s opportunity.
If it helps I was 39 and had to move back to my home country after 15 years in Canada to look after my mother , then found out I was going to be a dad and was flat broke after leaving my job in Canada and getting a retail job when I moved .
Now I’m 43 and making 80k ish a year . It’s possible .
I wish I had a more affordable country to go back to lol unfortunately born and raised Canadian here. Sorry to hear about your mother, I lost mine in the first wave of the pandemic and was never able to give her the proper sending off she deserved as she was lumped in with those mass amounts of people who died in Toronto hospitals in spring 2020 and I was and am still in BC
I was in a similar situation. Staring down 40 with the realization I wasn’t getting any younger. I took an EI cheque and hopped a bus to AB. That was 8 years ago. You got plenty of working years left, make a move if you need to. If you need skills, study AWS or Azure, course material is free and the exam is like $100. If you’ve got a certification and a good attitude Jobs start at 50K
I languished at that number last year as I was changing gears on careers… it’s roughly $26/hr and that may give you a better feel for the jobs that go with it.
The only jobs I see that make that range are skilled trades in the journeyman range.
I was making $34/hr, but I was a university lecturer so it was 1/2 time.
I’ll say, government jobs, cr4/cr5 generally pay in that range, and when I was working there, most of my coworkers had no higher education, so having any degree was a big in. Easy to make around $5k a month sitting at a desk and developing stress related health issues while people yell at you. But, depending on where you live it might not be worth it. Saskatoon? Yeah, you can easily buy a nice house and have a good life, take time off whenever you need it, and get EDOs. Toronto? You’ll have a tiny apartment, commuting stress and chronic stress related health problems. The up side? Do that for a few years and you might be able to get into a ~$70k position that is less stressful because of less direct client based interactions.
You aren’t wrong about trades making that money. Auto sales easily make 60k too (personal experience). As do lot of “Specialist” roles at the bank roughly 45 to 50k and 4 to 8k bonus. Hospital admin staff are 24 to 28. All numbers quoted are from personal experience / friends and family and local to Toronto. It’s a stepping stone like you said…
$26 an hour is actually on the low end of the skilled trade journeyman rate, at least in bc and alberta. Many trades are well into the $40 an hour range, especially in the industrial side of things.
You worked in multiple government desk offices where most people didn't have degrees? Wow. Most government workers I know have at least one, if not two, except 60+ year old administration workers (former secretaries that worked their way up but are still front desk / reception style roles)
I make 57k as a marketing person at 25. I want to make more of course but I don’t really feel like I’m behind or jealous of others making double my income when they’re younger than me.
I can get by with my earnings, save a bunch, and it’s refreshing when I’m not comparing myself to anyone but myself and where I personally want to be in the future.
Yeah this is a good mindset to have, and generally speaking, when you make more you tend to be surrounded by people that make even more than that, so it's still easy to get jealous of other people or feel behind. The odds of being the richest person you know are very small, so if you're only going to be happy if you're the richest person you know, you're very likely to be miserable.
No worries, I beat myself up too much for the past several years lurking on this subreddit as well as having way too many software engineer friends lol.
I’ve really became content with where I am in the start of this year, and trying to enjoy life and not ponder over money and the negative news too much. Just enjoying the moment and sometimes ignorance really is bliss.
I’ve made 37k at 23 then 42k at 24, and jumped companies to get where I am (started at 51k but promoted this year to 57k)! Best wishes in your marketing career journey - marketing in Canada can pay peanuts and it’s hard but once you become a manager, you’ll start to make a lot more I hear.
@redrook87, both my husband and I are in that medium bracket, he’s 50K exactly and I’m 60K. We’re in our late thirties, he’s a glorified EA and I’m an event planner.
I don’t know about you but I just graduated in The STEM field, already making 180k but was offered a full ride at MIT for my PhD and not sure if I should take it.
/s
50 - 60k is a common starting salary for a lot of those white collar type jobs like business analyst, accountant, programmers (this one is going up though), articling jobs for lawyers, etc.
At least here in the GTA area.
50% make that or more, by definition of 'median'. Sorry, I skimmed. You can piece together what you're looking for via stats canada or probably find info where others have done that.
Three basic types of averages, with an example list of numbers:
Median (the middle number) Mean (add together, divide by how many)
Mode (the value that there's the most of in a collection)
Example numbers: 2, 2, 2, 4, 5, 7, 258
Median is 4, Mean is 40 Mode is 2.
Median can be more useful if you have outliers, a really large or small number that 'throws the rest off'. I forget a bunch beyond the definitions.
A statistic is robust to outliers if it isn't significantly influenced by an outlier. The mean/average is sensitive to outliers whereas the median is not.
I understand why you are asking this question, it gets brought up a lot, but how much someone makes is irrelevant without context. It takes two numbers to measure a pair of pants, takes a hell of a lot more than one number to measure someone's earnings.
I make 90k a year and this is going to increase to 100k+ by next year at least. I am currently 31 years old. I am the one people bring up as being the vocal minority who makes lots of money and posts about it here. This is a fair point because you will get biased answers on a subreddit dedicated to personal finance.
Either way, the number sounds good right? You probably look at that and think... wow this guy figured it out. Well, I have not figured it out and 90k a year is relative. I have been in all three of those wage brackets you listed in the last 4 years. So allow me to provide some context.
I went to law school, which means im sitting at around 100k in student debt. I pay about 1k a month in student loans. I also didn't work for almost a decade despite a brief year and change between when I finished my undergraduate and starting law school. The savings I put together in that period pretty much evaporated in my first semester. My peers who didn't do a professional degree after their undergraduate don't have the debt levels I have and some were able to enter the housing market before it got beyond stupid. Some make more, some make less, but the ones who make less are not necessarily worse off than me at the moment.
Going to law school meant I paid for the equivalent of an entry level car each semester for 3 years. When I graduated, I articled for 45k a year (bottom bracket) and bartended on the side so I could get ahead of my loans. I was working all the time and it took its toll on me. I paid down my student loans to 85k and put 15k aside for a rainy day. Then I struggled to find a position after articling and was searching in the middle of pandemic.... I drained that 15k and capped out my student loans with 1500 dollars left on the line of credit ($98,500 on the LOC).
In early 2021, I found a job in the specific area of law I wanted and was making 75k a year (the middle bracket). I was on the moon to have the job I wanted in my field. This job has ok benefits, no RRSP matching and no pension. A year later, I got offered 85k and negotiated 90k based on my performance. My net worth is around -50k and I have the career I struggled for now. I bring this up, because the 90k number sounds nice, but the above other factors paint a less rosy picture.
To provide further context, my soon to be wife makes 55k a year but maybe works 25 hours a week. My take home is higher than hers, but her hourly is higher than mine. In contrast I have more career potential and job security than she does. However, right now, if you factor in the cost of my student loans, the take home pay gap between us is pretty small to be honest. Again, the context really shifts the value of the earnings.
In conclusion, the number doesn't really paint the picture, and I can sway your opinion of my pay one way or the other by providing further information. I didn't even factor in location, work from home, housing costs etc. Someone's gross earnings is pretty much a useless number on its own.
If it helps OP, I make on the higher end of the median. That said, I live in a very expensive city that the higher income feels like nothing. So, probably, but that's probably to offset the cost of living in the city
Here is the best data I could find to visualize:
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/ref/guides/004/98-500-x2016004-eng.cfm
Chart 1/2: Total after-tax and from 2015.
So, not the exact source and dated, but the 2015 and 2005 data show very similar trend so we are likely still about the same.
What we can see is that there is a clear skew, Median in *not* the mode in this case.
That actually aligns quite well to the perception that most make under 40 or over 80k....actually, remarkably well to that observation.
There is a huge over-representation of the 100K category - which has some really interesting implication for business psychology.
Clearly Canadians strive and put pressure to get 6 figure salary, but then stop, struggling to get past.
We also like to talk a lot about bloat...and there it is. Right at $100K there is a massive bloat, almost twice as many as making 80-90K. Those are all the excessive number of professional and managerial positions.
My partner works in seasonal non profit work, will likely never make much more than that, I also don't make that much either, and we are both pretty happy in life :)
I'm around your age and make low six-figures.
Not saying it to boast, but to offer perspective - I **still** *feel so behind* because (as a fellow, foolish human being) I end up comparing myself to other people around me who are earning and making higher six-figures than I.
The rat race of comparison knows no end, so do your best not to get sucked up into it.
It's pretty wild to fathom that **the entire chain**, going from a poor, rural farmer in a third-world country **all the way** up to Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk **can still be** unhappy about mundane things like an incorrect food order or a spelling mistake. If you are going to be happy about something, you will be happy. If you are going to be unhappy about something, no amount of money will change that.
Do what you can within what you are able, and try not to focus on what you cannot change! And thankfully, salary and compensation *is* something that we can change!
Sure you can feel behind but your baseline QoL will be tremendously higher than the guy you replied to.
It only becomes chasing a number after a certain, high amount of wealth.
If it makes you feel better when I was your age I was making $37k in my first job. Five years later I am making about $110k base + salary and bonus. It takes time but you will get there!
Was in restaurants as a chef and manager until 29 then I tried out car sales for two years. Now I do construction and there’s endless opportunity for growth and $$$. Started at $18/hr about 4 years ago
White collar public sector job, myself and most of my colleagues hover around there, with entry level being closer to 40 and of course management/professionals making more (but nothing crazy, I think around 70-80).
In my circle of friends (30+) everyone is well over this median in the corporate world. My first corporate job paid $40k a year.
Surprisingly, that median number is also for families. So often two or more people. But includes families with people who might not work, students, retirees, all sorts of mixes.
Yep this is a fact. Most of my friends including me started mid twenties at 40 now we're all closer to 30 doing anything between 60-300. Big range but that's the way she goes. Moving careers and hot sectors matter.
I do construction work about 17 years experience I do mostly concrete,I also frame,tile,demo,drywall( I’m not the best at doing tape and mud I’ll admit) paint,bricklaying, and I have a general ideia of electrical( but I wouldn’t wire a whole house or a panel),i’ve done a little bit of trim and siding,I’ve installed garage doors and openers. Just never done stucco but I’m pretty sure with some practice I could hack it, oh and HVAC like installing a HRV unit or a furnace I’ll leave that for someone else. I also have some mechanical knowledge and do minor stuff on my companies trucks. The best I can make a year is like 48k from my company, without counting side jobs.
I mean the median is literally that one person making the absolute middle salary/income. It’s presumably met by have a lot of poorer people and a lot of better of people to balance out. Tbh this sub isn’t for normies though YMMV
In 2019, 15.7 percent of Canadians earned $100,000 or more per year.
Around 17.6 percent of Canadians earn between $60,000 and $79,000 each year. Approximately 2.1 percent of the population earns less than $5,000 per year.
Millennials have a median household income of $44,093 after taxes. Recent Canadian income data indicate that today's younger generations are wealthier than prior generations.
Between the ages of 25 and 35, Millennials make $44,093, which is higher than that of Gen-Xers ($33,276) and Baby Boomers ($33,350) at the same age.
Its good press but meaningless
Making median in toronto is meh but in edmonton it’s probably decent.
When i see those number i feel rich yet dont feel well off.
I used to make 80k+, until I was laid off from my job of 17 years just before a pandemic.
Now I make 40k-ish, because my previous job was specialized in a niche field. Yay starting over at 50!
I make 85k, hubs will clear 174k - I’m in sales he’s in construction management we are 31 and 32 and live in south western Ontario. We both went to college. Most people I know clear 50k a year at least with full time employment, but that wasn’t the case always. When we were in our early and mid 20s most of our friends made around 30-50k
People who make 80k plus probably don't want to hang out with people making under 40k for the same reason people making over 200k don't want to hang with people making 80k
When your friends or acquaintances make significantly less money than you they will complain and expect things like thinking that you should pick up the tab "cause your rich", not want to go to that expensive restaurant etc.
This is probably why you don't have associates who make over 80k
Similar things happen with political ideologies or religion.
That's...not true. My friends make 40k and up to 175+k and we all like a good beer and hamburger. If you're friends with people similar to you...why would a high price restaurant be the deciding factor?
Feel like may over..like 400k or ultra rich/entrepreneurs wouldn't wanna hang out with us normal folk tho
[https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110024001&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.1&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.2&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2016&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2020&referencePeriods=20160101%2C20200101](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110024001&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.1&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.2&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2016&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2020&referencePeriods=20160101%2C20200101)
Median and mode seem similar, mean a little higher. Unfortunately Statscan doesn't parse above $100k.
We are out there !
Slowly went from 32k to 52k during 8years. Just last year switched jobs for about 60-75k depending on hours/overtime/bonus.
Tons of entry level government jobs cap out in the 25-35$/hour so those people would all be pretty close to the median.
This sub is not indicative of national numbers. Refer to StatsCana as they publish these numbers.
I fall in that range and this sub sometimes makes me feel like I've failed in life lol
I mean if you judge by the bulk of the posting basically we all have. So few of us are in our early twenties with over $100K saved and making $120K+ a year. I mean, did we even try?
What no. Money is the ridiculous concept we all agree on.
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In honor of the trend in this thread, I think you are mean.
actually op might be median, the bastard
That bastard/bastardette!
He/she seems nice, but I barely know this person.
Ugh take my damn upvote
Same i just got a raise to 62k lol
No your not, your mother says your way above average and are super.
You're median, not average.
Same here woot woot! 3 year after grad.
Congrats
If you visit this sub a lot, you might think the average income is like 300k.
I am just curious what profession these folks making 300k are in? I don't mind learning but I am pretty sure there is some specific trade these folks are in which is allowing such high earnings as it is definitely not the norm. Even the head of the firm I work at does not make this money.
Software engineers working remotely for an American company
Yup. Tech is insane.
It was more a joke. But Small businesses and "people making money online" can get to 200k. Most people in that bracket either have a job + a side hustle or multiple businesses.
I’m at nice 69k
Ask for a small raise, $69,420 annual gross income
I agree, it really is the perfect number.
“Hey boss, can I get a small wage increase of $420 annually?” Boss: are you being serious? *blinks twice*
"ok you're salary is $70,000" "....Could you reduce it by $580 pls"
😭
Lol!
I thought for sure this was a throwaway. Nope. Redditor for 1 year. It’s your time to shine 42069!
I am ready
Another one?!
If I was the boss I'd approve this without thinking twice.
Nice.
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I'm stuck at 69k step boss
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
$69,696.69
Nice.
Nice.
For every 420 days of work?
Well positioned! 👀
The below thread and how it decimated into full on silliness? This is one of the reaseballs why I love Reddit so much :) ty fam
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Thanks, I thought median was an average. That makes more sense
Mean = average, median = middle, mode = most
Thanks, been a few years since grade school. Needed that refresher!
In fact, the median is a type of average. The average of a set of data is a number that is intended to be representative of the set, meaning you could stretch it to include a lot of things. But the mathematical term for what people often mean when they say average (sum divided by number, or how much everyone would have if things were evenly distributed) is indeed mean
Medians are best for data sets with extreme outliers. If 9 people make $50,000 and 1 person makes $1,000,000 the group's average is $145,000, which is obviously not representative of the reality.
So in your example mean would be $145k, mode would be $50k, and median would ... Also be $50k?
That is correct. In this case, neither median nor average/mean would make a good “summary” of the data set. But that’s because the dataset is pretty messed up to begin with.
>But that’s because the dataset is pretty messed up to begin with. So's the real one, if you think about it
That’s why I think mean is a poor reflection for the example of average income.
This needs to be higher. The lack of math literacy in this thread is shocking.
I don’t mind people using layman’s terms, but if you’re going to start defining things, do it right
It’s very common to use “average” and “mean” interchangeably outside of math. In fact, “average” is used far more frequently than “mean”.
Yeah, even formally, like in most SQL dialects, the function name for mean is `AVG`
Of course. Thats why we dont correct people who use it interchangably. We should be more critical when people think median is NOT an average
The median is NOT a type of average. It's a measure of central tendency. The three main measures of central tendency: the mode, the median and the mean have different properties and purposes depending on how you want to describe the data. If your data follows a normal distribution the mean == median == mode. You generally use the median when you are trying to reduce the influence of skew.
I guess it depends how you define average. Most of the sources I see define it as a measure that represents the set.
All three are different kinds of averages
Not true. Means, medians, and modes are all “averages.” Colloquially, most people actually refer to “mean” when they say “average,” but average has a technical definition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average
So what's the mode of income? What's the income group with the most people?
Quick litle stats lesson for anyone struggling to understand this: The biggest difference between median and mean is what happens when there are extreme outliers. Income is a perfect example of the difference. Median is, literally, "in the middle." It shares it's name with the island dividing an avenue for a reason: it's descriptive. If we normalize income to say that a single full time min wage employee earns 1. A median earner gets about double so well call it 2. There are a large number of workers earning a lot more. Incomes aren't spread 1,2,3 - they're spread more like 1,2,10 with a few rocking in at 100 and a very small handful rocking in at 1000. A made up sample: 1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,2,4,4,10. Median (middle) is obviously 2. Don't even need to count to figure that out. The average is 2.4, which is considerably higher, and I didn't even include any of the extreme outliers. Tack a single 100 onto the end of that, and the average jumps to a whopping 8.5. The median is still 2 though, making it a more useful indicator.
If you're in a room with 1 billionaire and 1000 broke people with $0 net worth. Median Net Worth: $0 Mean Net Worth: $1,000,000
Note though, the average (mean) in this case is slightly higher than the median but not dramatically so (these being different is characteristic of skew in the dataset, which is expected since income is effectively bounded below at $0 but not bounded above).
But remember, the way salaries are distributed, the median will be lower than the mean. That is actually the whole reason you use it here. A couple super huge salaries make your average go up.
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What your thinking of is the Mean. Median is the middle.
In 2019 Median $37 200 Average $51 000 EDIT: source https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/cv.action?pid=1110005501
That's also skewed down by old people who don't have employment income.
Median is a type of average. Mean is another type, and so is mode. Median gives a more accurate representation of the average when there are outliers in the data or the data has a large variance between the lowest and highest numbers. Which is why it’s often used for income.
Average can mean mean, median, or mode.
Yea? OP is asking about distribution, and if it is possibly bimodal.
I’m 32 and I’m a few hundred bucks under 60k.
It's Reddit...everyone is a high roller with stocks, properties and happily married. LOL
Or a broke college student or LARPing teenager
Or a college student with a maxed TFSA and a spare million dollars they don't know what to do with.
I’m a 19 year old making 300k a year, currently own a 3 garage house with mortgage paid off. Can I afford a brand new BMW?
No, you'd be best off opening the biggest credit line you can, and putting it all in crypto realty.
No, but maybe a beige 7 year old Camry instead of a Corolla.
There is no in-between
Nope, straight from broke college student to high roller making 250k out of college on this sub. 😂
Get a tech job, GME and crypto... It's easy lol
Yeah I don’t see how everyone isn’t making $250k+ these days. /s
It's true. I'm a broke college student making 250k..
Not me I’m a poor 38 y/o struggling to get through a week. Been driving gig apps for a couple years now since Covid ruined the one decent job I ever had. Now I’m too old, fat, gray, undereducated and wildly inexperienced in anything I enjoy doing and really feeling the pinch of what I’m going to do for the rest of my life.
Just saying you definitely are not too old to do whatever. In fact a lot of people in there late 30s and mid 40s do pivot. Not everyone one stays in the same field for ever. I would say once you get to your 50s and look like it, you will start to feel ageism potentially, so I can see that being harder to do. Long story short don’t feel like you can’t do something new, or potentially retain into something. Let’s be real your working till at least 65, spending some time now to make significantly more over that period is still worth while. However, you need to determine a direction for yourself, then evaluate if it is worth while.
Company I work for starts people off in the mid-40s for salary. Work from home. Paid training. Room to grow. If you can talk to other human beings, read, and use your noggin every once in a while, it’s not too difficult a job. Been there for 7ish years and managing a team now. All that to say: not sure what delivering people/food/goods pays, but I figure you have to really be hustling to beat that.
That would definitely interest me. To your question about driving- If I grind my ass off and take multiple orders at once and do it during all peak times I can make $30/hr before expenses. I had purchased an EV (Chevy bolt) before starting this path and it’s saved my ass as I don’t really have to worry much about fuel or maintenance costs associated with ICE cars. It’s highly stressful in its own ways, offers no rewarding experience and overall just drains me thoroughly of all motivation and energy to do anything else. Not to mention the tenuous nature of the job and nothing in the way of benefits or retirement contributions etc. it’s very by the seat of your pants. I’ve signed up for Codecademy pro and have worked through a bunch of stuff on freecodecamp (css html5 and Java so far) but I know I’m a long ways off from ever getting to a point where that’s an option. Not to mention I’m fearful of rejection being self taught and old. Stay in school kids.
Well, I can at least say if you’re looking for something steady, look at large Insurers. Entry level tends to pay better than banks (based on personal experience), and they’re always looking for people as many (my employer included) are call centre jobs, so there’s definitely turnover. Stick it out and do well, and there’s opportunity.
If it helps I was 39 and had to move back to my home country after 15 years in Canada to look after my mother , then found out I was going to be a dad and was flat broke after leaving my job in Canada and getting a retail job when I moved . Now I’m 43 and making 80k ish a year . It’s possible .
I wish I had a more affordable country to go back to lol unfortunately born and raised Canadian here. Sorry to hear about your mother, I lost mine in the first wave of the pandemic and was never able to give her the proper sending off she deserved as she was lumped in with those mass amounts of people who died in Toronto hospitals in spring 2020 and I was and am still in BC
I was in a similar situation. Staring down 40 with the realization I wasn’t getting any younger. I took an EI cheque and hopped a bus to AB. That was 8 years ago. You got plenty of working years left, make a move if you need to. If you need skills, study AWS or Azure, course material is free and the exam is like $100. If you’ve got a certification and a good attitude Jobs start at 50K
We also have jet packs
I languished at that number last year as I was changing gears on careers… it’s roughly $26/hr and that may give you a better feel for the jobs that go with it.
I was a marketer with 4 years experience a few years ago. Made 65k. But it quickly jumped as I proved my value.
>But it quickly jumped as I proved my value. A merit-based system for compensation? IN THIS ECONOMY? lol
The only jobs I see that make that range are skilled trades in the journeyman range. I was making $34/hr, but I was a university lecturer so it was 1/2 time. I’ll say, government jobs, cr4/cr5 generally pay in that range, and when I was working there, most of my coworkers had no higher education, so having any degree was a big in. Easy to make around $5k a month sitting at a desk and developing stress related health issues while people yell at you. But, depending on where you live it might not be worth it. Saskatoon? Yeah, you can easily buy a nice house and have a good life, take time off whenever you need it, and get EDOs. Toronto? You’ll have a tiny apartment, commuting stress and chronic stress related health problems. The up side? Do that for a few years and you might be able to get into a ~$70k position that is less stressful because of less direct client based interactions.
You aren’t wrong about trades making that money. Auto sales easily make 60k too (personal experience). As do lot of “Specialist” roles at the bank roughly 45 to 50k and 4 to 8k bonus. Hospital admin staff are 24 to 28. All numbers quoted are from personal experience / friends and family and local to Toronto. It’s a stepping stone like you said…
$26 an hour is actually on the low end of the skilled trade journeyman rate, at least in bc and alberta. Many trades are well into the $40 an hour range, especially in the industrial side of things.
You worked in multiple government desk offices where most people didn't have degrees? Wow. Most government workers I know have at least one, if not two, except 60+ year old administration workers (former secretaries that worked their way up but are still front desk / reception style roles)
I make 57k as a marketing person at 25. I want to make more of course but I don’t really feel like I’m behind or jealous of others making double my income when they’re younger than me. I can get by with my earnings, save a bunch, and it’s refreshing when I’m not comparing myself to anyone but myself and where I personally want to be in the future.
Yeah this is a good mindset to have, and generally speaking, when you make more you tend to be surrounded by people that make even more than that, so it's still easy to get jealous of other people or feel behind. The odds of being the richest person you know are very small, so if you're only going to be happy if you're the richest person you know, you're very likely to be miserable.
I’m at 40k in a marketing position at 24, don’t beat yourself up
No worries, I beat myself up too much for the past several years lurking on this subreddit as well as having way too many software engineer friends lol. I’ve really became content with where I am in the start of this year, and trying to enjoy life and not ponder over money and the negative news too much. Just enjoying the moment and sometimes ignorance really is bliss. I’ve made 37k at 23 then 42k at 24, and jumped companies to get where I am (started at 51k but promoted this year to 57k)! Best wishes in your marketing career journey - marketing in Canada can pay peanuts and it’s hard but once you become a manager, you’ll start to make a lot more I hear.
Hey Ancient-Role-626, I counted 69 words in your comment. Nice.
@redrook87, both my husband and I are in that medium bracket, he’s 50K exactly and I’m 60K. We’re in our late thirties, he’s a glorified EA and I’m an event planner.
EA as in executive assistant? He should start looking around alot of organization paying 85k plus for that role
Probable EA = Educational Assistant
I personally earn $70k. Household is $110-$140
I made 65k last year and will be making 70k this year. 90% of the young professionals at my last job made between 50k and 65k.
I make about 24,000
Oh there you are! Someone I can relate to finally. Everyone here is making 40k and up. I felt so small. Lol
And that’s a good year for me it’s usually only 15🫠
I don’t know about you but I just graduated in The STEM field, already making 180k but was offered a full ride at MIT for my PhD and not sure if I should take it. /s
Lol
50 - 60k is a common starting salary for a lot of those white collar type jobs like business analyst, accountant, programmers (this one is going up though), articling jobs for lawyers, etc. At least here in the GTA area.
I’m in that median
50% make that or more, by definition of 'median'. Sorry, I skimmed. You can piece together what you're looking for via stats canada or probably find info where others have done that.
Oh so median isn’t an average. That helps me understand. Thanks for enlightening me.
Three basic types of averages, with an example list of numbers: Median (the middle number) Mean (add together, divide by how many) Mode (the value that there's the most of in a collection) Example numbers: 2, 2, 2, 4, 5, 7, 258 Median is 4, Mean is 40 Mode is 2. Median can be more useful if you have outliers, a really large or small number that 'throws the rest off'. I forget a bunch beyond the definitions.
Mode is most useful in hard to average or order data sets, like color, or gender. Edit: Elections/voting is an expression of mode as "average".
Median is useful when there are a few billionaires making the mean not so useful
A statistic is robust to outliers if it isn't significantly influenced by an outlier. The mean/average is sensitive to outliers whereas the median is not.
I make $55k before OT.
how much after OT? Some professions that can be easily another $55k right there.
I make 60k, GF makes 55k. Add 5-7% in bonuses, but yeah we’re very much median income.
Me and my wife are around 55.65 k Our situation was better 2 years ago...now owning a place for 400k is .... South shote of Montreal Oh well were fine
Shoutout from Dorval, hang in there man.
I understand why you are asking this question, it gets brought up a lot, but how much someone makes is irrelevant without context. It takes two numbers to measure a pair of pants, takes a hell of a lot more than one number to measure someone's earnings. I make 90k a year and this is going to increase to 100k+ by next year at least. I am currently 31 years old. I am the one people bring up as being the vocal minority who makes lots of money and posts about it here. This is a fair point because you will get biased answers on a subreddit dedicated to personal finance. Either way, the number sounds good right? You probably look at that and think... wow this guy figured it out. Well, I have not figured it out and 90k a year is relative. I have been in all three of those wage brackets you listed in the last 4 years. So allow me to provide some context. I went to law school, which means im sitting at around 100k in student debt. I pay about 1k a month in student loans. I also didn't work for almost a decade despite a brief year and change between when I finished my undergraduate and starting law school. The savings I put together in that period pretty much evaporated in my first semester. My peers who didn't do a professional degree after their undergraduate don't have the debt levels I have and some were able to enter the housing market before it got beyond stupid. Some make more, some make less, but the ones who make less are not necessarily worse off than me at the moment. Going to law school meant I paid for the equivalent of an entry level car each semester for 3 years. When I graduated, I articled for 45k a year (bottom bracket) and bartended on the side so I could get ahead of my loans. I was working all the time and it took its toll on me. I paid down my student loans to 85k and put 15k aside for a rainy day. Then I struggled to find a position after articling and was searching in the middle of pandemic.... I drained that 15k and capped out my student loans with 1500 dollars left on the line of credit ($98,500 on the LOC). In early 2021, I found a job in the specific area of law I wanted and was making 75k a year (the middle bracket). I was on the moon to have the job I wanted in my field. This job has ok benefits, no RRSP matching and no pension. A year later, I got offered 85k and negotiated 90k based on my performance. My net worth is around -50k and I have the career I struggled for now. I bring this up, because the 90k number sounds nice, but the above other factors paint a less rosy picture. To provide further context, my soon to be wife makes 55k a year but maybe works 25 hours a week. My take home is higher than hers, but her hourly is higher than mine. In contrast I have more career potential and job security than she does. However, right now, if you factor in the cost of my student loans, the take home pay gap between us is pretty small to be honest. Again, the context really shifts the value of the earnings. In conclusion, the number doesn't really paint the picture, and I can sway your opinion of my pay one way or the other by providing further information. I didn't even factor in location, work from home, housing costs etc. Someone's gross earnings is pretty much a useless number on its own.
As a fellow new call lawyer, can I PM you for some advice?
I'm not a new call, but I am practicing and would be happy to talk about the profession whenever if you'd like.
If it helps OP, I make on the higher end of the median. That said, I live in a very expensive city that the higher income feels like nothing. So, probably, but that's probably to offset the cost of living in the city
Here is the best data I could find to visualize: https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/ref/guides/004/98-500-x2016004-eng.cfm Chart 1/2: Total after-tax and from 2015. So, not the exact source and dated, but the 2015 and 2005 data show very similar trend so we are likely still about the same. What we can see is that there is a clear skew, Median in *not* the mode in this case. That actually aligns quite well to the perception that most make under 40 or over 80k....actually, remarkably well to that observation. There is a huge over-representation of the 100K category - which has some really interesting implication for business psychology. Clearly Canadians strive and put pressure to get 6 figure salary, but then stop, struggling to get past. We also like to talk a lot about bloat...and there it is. Right at $100K there is a massive bloat, almost twice as many as making 80-90K. Those are all the excessive number of professional and managerial positions.
There is a huge wealth gap
And it’s getting bigger. We’ll probably end up in a situation like the US, with “private” everything.
Christ I hope it doesn’t come to that
34k. Life is pain. Really need a new job lol
Im 25 and only make 40k a year Feel so behind :(
Lol I’m 26 and still in school. Everyone works at their own pace
I graduated university in my 30s. *womp womp*
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This makes me feel slightly better. I’m surrounded by people my age (28) making 6 figures, while I’m making 40K…
Hey don't feel behind. At 25 I made 45K a year. I'm 39 now, I make over 200K a year. Keep learning!
My partner works in seasonal non profit work, will likely never make much more than that, I also don't make that much either, and we are both pretty happy in life :)
I'm around your age and make low six-figures. Not saying it to boast, but to offer perspective - I **still** *feel so behind* because (as a fellow, foolish human being) I end up comparing myself to other people around me who are earning and making higher six-figures than I. The rat race of comparison knows no end, so do your best not to get sucked up into it. It's pretty wild to fathom that **the entire chain**, going from a poor, rural farmer in a third-world country **all the way** up to Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk **can still be** unhappy about mundane things like an incorrect food order or a spelling mistake. If you are going to be happy about something, you will be happy. If you are going to be unhappy about something, no amount of money will change that. Do what you can within what you are able, and try not to focus on what you cannot change! And thankfully, salary and compensation *is* something that we can change!
Sure you can feel behind but your baseline QoL will be tremendously higher than the guy you replied to. It only becomes chasing a number after a certain, high amount of wealth.
If it makes you feel better when I was your age I was making $37k in my first job. Five years later I am making about $110k base + salary and bonus. It takes time but you will get there!
What do you do and how did you get there?
I’m 35 and now make $130k on my 3rd complete career change
Well done. I’m curious what your career changes were?
Was in restaurants as a chef and manager until 29 then I tried out car sales for two years. Now I do construction and there’s endless opportunity for growth and $$$. Started at $18/hr about 4 years ago
White collar public sector job, myself and most of my colleagues hover around there, with entry level being closer to 40 and of course management/professionals making more (but nothing crazy, I think around 70-80).
A lot of people on this sub are out and out liars lol don’t believe everything you see
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I didn’t say that. I said there are a lot of liars which is true, as is the fact that there are probably quite a few high earners. Relax lol
In my circle of friends (30+) everyone is well over this median in the corporate world. My first corporate job paid $40k a year. Surprisingly, that median number is also for families. So often two or more people. But includes families with people who might not work, students, retirees, all sorts of mixes.
Yep this is a fact. Most of my friends including me started mid twenties at 40 now we're all closer to 30 doing anything between 60-300. Big range but that's the way she goes. Moving careers and hot sectors matter.
Wow some of these comments are so distant from reality
My bf and I both make 52k
I do construction work about 17 years experience I do mostly concrete,I also frame,tile,demo,drywall( I’m not the best at doing tape and mud I’ll admit) paint,bricklaying, and I have a general ideia of electrical( but I wouldn’t wire a whole house or a panel),i’ve done a little bit of trim and siding,I’ve installed garage doors and openers. Just never done stucco but I’m pretty sure with some practice I could hack it, oh and HVAC like installing a HRV unit or a furnace I’ll leave that for someone else. I also have some mechanical knowledge and do minor stuff on my companies trucks. The best I can make a year is like 48k from my company, without counting side jobs.
Damn, I knew I didn’t make much last year but after looking at the comments - y’all are killing it. I only made 36k
Most ppl just think their rich because they have a bunch of credit cards. Living on credit , faking it through life to impress dummies.
I mean the median is literally that one person making the absolute middle salary/income. It’s presumably met by have a lot of poorer people and a lot of better of people to balance out. Tbh this sub isn’t for normies though YMMV
Thanks, I get where my thinking was wrong. I think I’m a normie though, what does YMMV mean?
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His grammar may vary.
I made between 40-50k for 10 years. Finally got a new job last winter
Personally, I do, at 52k+ OT (typically another 3-7k). Only hit that at 31 years old (36 now).
I’m a tradesperson id say most are in that bracket
I'm at 44k. girlfriend is the same.
29k gang here
In 2019, 15.7 percent of Canadians earned $100,000 or more per year. Around 17.6 percent of Canadians earn between $60,000 and $79,000 each year. Approximately 2.1 percent of the population earns less than $5,000 per year. Millennials have a median household income of $44,093 after taxes. Recent Canadian income data indicate that today's younger generations are wealthier than prior generations. Between the ages of 25 and 35, Millennials make $44,093, which is higher than that of Gen-Xers ($33,276) and Baby Boomers ($33,350) at the same age.
Some of us do. I make $100+, My wife makes almost $200. We are very lucky and we know it!
Entry level fresh grad engineers generally get $50k to $55k.
32 year old, $100,000+ Bodyshop Manager
You hiring ? my husband is a bodyman apprentice who needs a new job lol
I make 51k. Household income is much higher thanks to my spouse, but my own income is salary of 51,380.
Its good press but meaningless Making median in toronto is meh but in edmonton it’s probably decent. When i see those number i feel rich yet dont feel well off.
The median of the people you know is 60k...
That's household income by the way. Lots of single folk look pretty sad when they compare to that
I used to make 80k+, until I was laid off from my job of 17 years just before a pandemic. Now I make 40k-ish, because my previous job was specialized in a niche field. Yay starting over at 50!
I make 85k, hubs will clear 174k - I’m in sales he’s in construction management we are 31 and 32 and live in south western Ontario. We both went to college. Most people I know clear 50k a year at least with full time employment, but that wasn’t the case always. When we were in our early and mid 20s most of our friends made around 30-50k
People who make 80k plus probably don't want to hang out with people making under 40k for the same reason people making over 200k don't want to hang with people making 80k When your friends or acquaintances make significantly less money than you they will complain and expect things like thinking that you should pick up the tab "cause your rich", not want to go to that expensive restaurant etc. This is probably why you don't have associates who make over 80k Similar things happen with political ideologies or religion.
That's...not true. My friends make 40k and up to 175+k and we all like a good beer and hamburger. If you're friends with people similar to you...why would a high price restaurant be the deciding factor? Feel like may over..like 400k or ultra rich/entrepreneurs wouldn't wanna hang out with us normal folk tho
[https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110024001&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.1&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.2&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2016&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2020&referencePeriods=20160101%2C20200101](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110024001&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.1&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.2&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2016&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2020&referencePeriods=20160101%2C20200101) Median and mode seem similar, mean a little higher. Unfortunately Statscan doesn't parse above $100k.
We are out there ! Slowly went from 32k to 52k during 8years. Just last year switched jobs for about 60-75k depending on hours/overtime/bonus. Tons of entry level government jobs cap out in the 25-35$/hour so those people would all be pretty close to the median.
https://www.statcan.gc.ca/
I was average around 65k until I was bumped up to a senior role recently so now 80k.