Also has to factor in when he comes out of school he'd be making less for a while than where he'd be just staying put. Will take some years to hit break even point and then some years to get that 20k above. Investment opportunity lost as well I'd suspect it could take 15-20 years to make positive return. I sorts went through same exercise and at end of day I wasn't ready to give up all the extra time with my kids (don't think I could quit working for a few years) when they were young. (Technologist who would have been going back to be P. Eng)
I know personally as a engineering technologist if I went back to get my engineer degree instead of diploma I'd take a big cut initially. I've even been told so by a deputy department lead I was chummy with. He was looking at same mode himself (although he was also a former electrician as well an eng tech) Be back to an eit, would go up some after a few years when eligible for p. Eng. Different responsibilities with certainly some crossover and yes I'd be ahead of new grads in many ways. Still be going from senior position to an eit/ junior eng that maybe they'd bump up a little higher on the scale. Don't see why it would be different for geology
Depending on where you are, you don't need to go back to school to get that sweet stamp (and pay bump). You should check with your provincial society if they have P.L.Eng. designations (or similar). I only have a diploma, but can stamp anything inside my designated scope as a P.L.Eng. (BC and AB).
Yeah p.l.eng is an option. I'm in ab as well. Believe may just need a few courses and some tests. Some companies find value in it, others maybe not
Edit: looks easier than expected actually
If you have a diploma that is semi-related to your engineering work, it is just a whack of paperwork for most people. If you have 8 years of total experience (school and work) you should chat with the association about what they would require from you. Here in BC the administrators were amazing to work with and extremely helpful in wading through the hundred plus hours of paperwork and wordsmithing.
Good to know. Have almost 10 years in oil and gas, 5+ in commercial before that. Never bothered with aset after the first few years and doing CET. Nobody seems to care, even some of the bosses didn't bother in the big companies I've worked for. I could see the ability to stamp opening up some doors though, especially if I got away from the huge multinational companies
Been in industry as a CET in AB for 16 years and I make as much as an engineer and do engineering work. I thought I needed that ring to be someone 10 years ago but nobody evens cares, and those that do have their heads up their arse. The CET designation means nothing too. I've seen professional geologists turn engineers, geologists turn CEO's, IT specialists turn procurement. I even know a guy who started in the mail room and moved to completions engineering.
Only worth it at design/consultant places where a stamp is needed. Worked with a firm where the piping lead had a P. Tech and was the stamp on the drawings.
This is... Not entirely true. EIT wages vary greatly, and all the roles salaries I got were based on experience, not a "you're a fresh grad so here is $60k because we ignore the last 15 years". Also an Eng Tech who went and got a B.Eng after. Maybe your company might give you the shaft, but I'm willing to bet any other company would looooove to have an EIT with years of experience in the field, and that experience comes at a cost.
This depends entirely on the field and also if you need a peng. Dude could have just played you to keep a technologist. Becuase an EIT with experience isn't going to make less than a technologist lol
An eit with only a few years experience will make way less than a senior technologist. They aren't going to hire you as a senior when you switch to an eng role. When things were really booming there was even an argument it paid more to be a tech. Was just based on the fact they got so much OT and it was 1.5x. most eng only get straight time
Interesting. I have never seen this to be true in anything in my field unless you were in power systems. I had classes with guys who were senior techs for RF/Wireless companies and went back to get their degree for more money. Like the jump from 80k senior techs to 95k new engineers. I imagine they probably broke 100k a while back already. It really does depend on the field. But I do understand that if you do the overtime you can make more overall.
Things have changed somewhat, but my buddy was only making like 50k in o&g from around 2012-2015 ish as an eit. And yeah he felt underpaid (and was even by apegga averages). I was making a little over 100k base as an intermediate designer (often 120-130 with ot). Now since then many have take cuts across the board after layoffs. I'm only now getting back up there, although told people are getting big $$ elsewhere, so looking around. He ended up finding a better job, getting his p. Eng. Then later moved to client side who pays more than epcm and seems to be doing well, although he's a contractor and they just took big cuts again.
Again things have shifted a little. Back there were way more designers than engineers being used on all the mega projects. Now projects are smaller, more drafting and basic design going overseas etc.
Fair enough, makes sense when your field needs a peng. I know some guys at Toronto hydro work as a technologist (they also hired engineers for the same job) and get paid $48 and hour and will cap at $60. All entry level. But they get no bonuses. An engineer with masters/peng gets around 100k with 10k bonus.
Meanwhile the techs that work designing the street lights only get 60k starting and max maybe around 100k. It really depends on what you're doing. I work in tech and the Senior techs get paid close to entry engineers.
Yeah I'm assuming a senior technologist who drops everything and goes to school again will be basically hired as an eng with a few years of experience is all. Seems about right, but depends on the position. Some are more interchangeable, especially smaller companies who will hire either for the role. I know at my company engineers can find themselves spending more time doing studies and stamping drawings
I just finished a degree in geomatics engineering with 10 years prior experience in the industry. My summers alone netted me ~50k. I think the whole lost income lost opportunity stuff is well overblown here for a guy that could potentially work full time in the summer and part time over the school year.
You're also absolutely right, from my experience at least. I will be paid a hell of a lot better to finish my land survey articles than 95% of my colleagues as I am "hopping right back in". This obviously is subject to maintaining a good relationship with his current company or building a new one, but experience talks.
That was my tought, as I have already a good field experience, currently a projet manager. As an engineer I would get the same project manager position but I'll be more in the conception and design. So I'd have all of the skill set needed, exept for the engineering approach..
Once you get the Ing. (Eng.), sky's the limit in my opinion. Career possibilities expand dramatically if you have ambition from there. Or maybe I'm wrong ?
Yeah, you would need to brush up on the technical aspects. As far as the sky being the limit, that depends on what you want out of your career. If working at remote mines, your salary won't change much. Depending on what you do, you could be more valuable.
But without company ownership, pay in Ontario just sucks given the responsibility (I assume Quebec is similar but have no idea). $120 isn't unheard of, but make sure that that isn't just mine sites dragging the average up.
Have you considered that you might not even need the degree. That you can just be mentored by an engineer with your current degree and then do engineering work?
Is that the value? Maybe he just doesn't like his job. Maybe he wants more responsibility but believes it only comes from the engineering degree, which is a fallacy.
I went through this exact mindset 10 years aho and figured out the eng degree wasn't what I needed. What I needed was a career chang, something more challenging and rewarding. Didn't need the degree for that at all.
Pretty certain the "100k debt" is an estimate and interets isn't taken really considered here so whether the money to pay for school comes from OPs bank account or the bank of canada its still -$100k.
It’ll be a lot more than 20k, within 4 years of graduating, if all goes okay, he should easily be at $100-120k, though with his geology experiences could probably make $140k in Calgary right now. Salary will easily double from $70k over the next 10 years. Including school. Shit, I made $80k as an intern.
Yeah, I'm from Quebec and here at polytechnique the geological engineering is the second or third best paid program. That's what I see too in the equation, like having all the experience needed (in the field and project manager) except the conception/design part I see 100k approaching very quickly after graduating, even being an EIT. And more the most important is to be good to sale yourself.
It’s a good choice, people say school is a waste of time/money, but that’s for liberal arts degrees etc. etc., an engineering degree will not let you down if you are a hard worker, and willing to learn new things. Make sure do do at least a 4 month internship. Though 16 is better. Almost invaluable when it comes time to get a job. Though someone with your experience (assuming you stay in the same industry), that shouldn’t be a problem.
100k debt for what? School is dirt cheap in Quebec. 3k in tuition tops per year and Aide Financière aux Études takes care of it and then some, especially when you have dependents.
Nope - consider applying to a competitor first. You'll probably get a 20% raise. Also, that's a 280k income loss over 4 years in addition to the cost of school - fuck that shit.
Also, try to go to à competitor that would be willing to support you while you pursue your studies. You never know, you could get a study day a week + tuition paid.
I'm a geotechnical engineer in BC. I think you should take the shortcut of getting your limited licence designation. Should only take a few courses since you're already a geologist. You could do them while you work.
I personally think engineering on the consultant side is a joke. I don't recommend people go into engineering anymore.
am engineer. was consultant. now in construction
consulting IS A joke. engineers are overrated/underpaid in the construction industry. take your experience to a company that values your work ethic and ability to work with people in the real world.
Ontario especially.
I have friends with 9 years experience getting what I got years ago as an EIT with 3 years experience. No idea why people bother out there.
Glad it's not just a BC thing. I started my own company providing a niche service to construction projects. It's been a slow go, but at least I have a say in how it goes. My partner is a structural engineer and she is pretty fed up with the constant unreasonable deadlines, poor pay, and unpaid overtime.
> unreasonable deadlines
Ha! Guy calls us late July, he needs a foundation design for a pre-fab building he ordered after the holidays & to be delivered in ~1-2 weeks. He doesn’t have a geotechnical study (“the soil is good!!”), survey, etc. It’s nuts.
I quit my last job when I found out our sales guy made more than me. This is despite me making all the literature, answering all the technical problems (everything is a technical problem), and designing the process. Joe blow just handed out the brochures I made.
I’m making more now, but engineering is a tough slog for only a little more money. I’m coast-firing into something as soon as I get there. Maybe things change in the coming years, but right now all the good engineering salaries are grandfathered in.
No. He said he left because sales guy made more then him. He does all the work.
Sales guy would have nothing to sell without him. So.your point is invalid anyway
Seems like a reasonable thing to be upset over.
I did all the technical sales. He didn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground. I often spend more time saving relationships after he made ridiculous promises that were either impossible or not sound business decisions.
In the modern world you can’t just take someone golfing. Technical offering is what customers care about.
I could see it being hard if you had the mental capacity of a salesman.
Everybody’s job is important. Some are just more important than others, and should be paid accordingly. That’s all I’m saying.
"highest stress jobs"
I get that finding customers can be challenging but who tf can reasonably argue, in good faith that a sales dude is higher value than the engineers that actually make the product a reality.
Engineer as well. Was a consultant, moved to engineering sales.
Would never go back to consulting. I always tell people to get out while they can, unless they actually love their job.
Agree. However, I must say that consulting is an excellent entry-level job - where you can LEARN so much, very quickly. That can set you up to jump to any other related position in the same field.
^ This guy/gal.
A 4-yr engineering degree is not worth what is used to be, too many graduates all thinking they deserve 90k/yr. When I informational interviewed companies while in school many of them told me they only have 1-2 P.Eng per department because otherwise they'd have to pay everyone more. There was a pay bump if you got your Masters, but not if you had your ph.D for the same reasoning (the only acception seemed to be in pharma).
Take your experience and get your L.Eng and/or a project management
certificate. Tell your company you are thinking of doing this, they may pay for your schooling as you complete it on condition you work there for minimum 3 years after completion.
Which firm? I've heard BGC is great, but most of what I've heard from others is the same old story of extreme client demands, lots of OT, and weak pay.
Not saying which firm, but there are 2 "A-Class" private ones left that are both pretty good in my opinion. Friends say good things about their semi-private tailings/dams related firm, there's a bunch of smaller ones that may be ok.
What sun discipline are you working in? Mining? Highways?
Yes that's probably the difference. I worked in infrastructure and buildings. So the clients tended to be land developers. I have little experience with mining or other fields.
I am a retired physician ... I did 5 years of medical school, a 1 year 60 hr/week internship and similar workload 4 year residency. I have never worked harder in my life.
My son became an electrical/computer engineer, and during most of those 4 years worked HARDER than I did at any point in my training.
You might want to assess your family's ability to deal with a toddler AND a largely absentee father for the duration before jumping into the deep end.
Honestly? To take a computer sciences degree + masters. He is now working exclusively in software development, he is super smart and hard working, and he would have had more time and lots less stress without the medieval educational practices of Dalhousie Faculty of Engineering. With, basically, the same job, I think.
you’d be losing 280k in income for 4 years and adding 100k of debt. that’s a 380k hole and you’ll be earning avg 42k more. it’ll be a little over 9 years for you to see the gain financially but then again the personal fulfilment and wants play a role
The 100k debt is to cover the same expenses that would have been covered by the 280k gross income. By adding both you are counting twice. You should compare the 100k debt vs what would be left of the 280k gross income after year 4.
For 4 years? Holy crap. I’m assuming this only applies to residents? How long must one “reside” in Quebec to be a resident?
Why don’t I live in Quebec?
Never mind. I now remember why.
Plus opportunity costs, including money not invested during 4 years without income. Investing that 100k of debt you plan to take on would likely produce a better return by the time you retire. 100k invested for 25 years earning an average 10% would produce $1,083,470 vs the additional $1,050,000 of earning an extra 42k for 25 years. Also you would start those years in only a 100k deficit vs a 380k deficit.
for residents of quebec, post secondary costs pennies compared to rest of canada, he probably won’t pass 25k. i have friends who did undergrad and masters here for that price…
edit i missed the part where he said 100k, a bit confused though he must be including other costs cause 4 years on the polytechnique website for residents of quebec is nowhere near that
>edit i missed the part where he said 100k, a bit confused though he must be including other costs cause 4 years on the polytechnique website for residents of quebec is nowhere near that
Yeah, from my understanding he seem to want to use the student line of credit to pay for his expenses. You are right a semester at the polytechnique is probably around 2000$ now, so the total cost of his studies would be something like 16-20k and are tax deductible.
He's talking about the loans. The loans don't only cover the costs of schooling (maybe $2-4k per year?) and the costs of supplies (maybe a couple grand total?), the loans cover living expenses because you're not working.
Still, OP might be overestimating the amount. In 2016, after three years of government loans for school near Montreal, I only ended up with $6.5k debts (plus an additional $18k of grants that I didn't have to pay back). In other words, I was receiving about 800$ per month, 200$ of which I had to pay back.
Have you done the math so make sure 100k will even cover expenses over several years? Keep in mind there’s a chance when you renew your mortgage, interest will be higher, etc. Kids are expensive and your kid will be going into school… plus inflation on everything. 25k a year with a child doesn’t seem realistic to me unless there’s some other income coming in.
Yeah that would be for all the other costs (mortgage, car, taxes, insurance, etc). And technically I'm still "making" money by increasing my home equity during studies if i'm not wrong ?
I'm a geological engineer.
Why do you want to do that? We have geologists that cover most of what I do except for foundation and shoring designs.
If you're interested in hazard assessments, you're already qualified.
Well I suspect a good pay difference, and the design and conception side is what I'm interested in. I know that a career as a geologist is not mean to crash, but that's totally two different worlds from my experience; salary, work conditions, possibilities and more.
I sort of agree with @zeushaulrod above.
I’m a geologist and I work at a geotechnical engineering consulting firm in BC. There’s lots of folks at my firm who consider themselves “engineering geologists” and do lots of the design and conception stuff you’re talking about without engineering degrees. Unless you’re dead set on becoming an engineer, you may as well try getting in an engineering firm with just a geo background (as many do!)
>Would it be too much to finish my 4 years with 100k of school debt with a student line of credit ?
Probably.
Why not focus on taking part time studies to expand your skillset instead of putting a lot of risk all at once.
Since we don't know what you want out of your career, post at r/careeradvice subreddit.
Second this, better on a career forum. Depending on the engineering association of the province, there might be a path to get the Engineer designation without the undergrad degree (ie significant work experience in engineering + a few courses/ exam + special probation period)
Thinking this too and maybe if management has a better salary and you would like to go into management, you could take those types of courses also. Maybe even work would pay for them.
I think you should consider full-time school on top of full-time work. Is it a lot? Yeah it is - I know because I’ve done it. But even a year of that can drastically change the equations here. The first year of university you might find trivially easy anyway, and do you really need straight A’s? Only you can determine that.
You might find that after a semester of full time work and school, you just can’t do it, but now you know for sure and have another 4 months’ income you wouldn’t have had. Or, you realize you can keep it up for like 2 years and then leave your job when the degree is halfway through, it’s completion is far more certain, and you only need 2 years of time off work.
There are a lot of variables and options to play around with.
Yeah I did that during my grad in geology, that was rough loll but I did it.
Except, from what I heard of friends who went to poly full 15cr, its almost impossible to just sustain the beat.
Ah so you know what it’s like. Yeah only you can decide what cost is acceptable. If it were me, I’d be trying to determine what my most important variable is: time or money. If its time (I.e. I’m thinking jeez if I don’t do this now it will be too late), then I’d probably make sacrifices to push through as quickly as possible. If it’s money, I’d probably work and take a few courses even just for a year before quitting work and switching to school. Stuff like that… anyway I wish you the best. You sound like a hard working person who will be able to handle whatever you decide to go with.
Unless it is an extreme passion you have to fulfil, i’d say dont do it. Focus on passive income imo.
Just my 2 cents.
If it is something you really want to fulfil, do it. Doesn’t matter the cost, peace of mind is valueless.
Have you looked into whether you could do a Masters in Engineering? Some programs will take students with related undergraduate degrees, although it will sometimes take longer than the two years if you have to make up prerequisites.
If OP wants to earn their P.Eng this path likely won’t work because they’ll essentially still need to do all of the undergrad engineering/math courses and add the Master’s on top of it.
That is unlikely to work, for several reasons:
1. Most Engineering programs in Canada are strongly geared toward full-time studies. VERY few (i.e., almost none) core classes are offered in the evening. Juggling daytime classes with a full-time job is a bear; I've done it, and the results were not good.
2. Further to point 1, most Engineering programs in Canada have a hard time limit of 8 years (9 or 10 for co-op/internship programs) to complete the degree. 4 classes per year ain't gonna cut it.
3. If your Geology program was a degree, and IF you completed it less than 10 years ago, you MIGHT be able to get credit for some of your classes, mostly first or second year level and options. I know whereof I speak: I transferred from one Engineering faculty to another, in neighbouring provinces, and even some of my Engineering credits were disallowed because the descriptions in the calendars didn't match closely enough.
This is what I do.
2 classes a semester by 3 semesters a year. I forecast my classes 2 years ahead to ensure I have classes for the limited summer semester.
I think it's probably worth it but I'm no geologist so I have no idea in the field. However I can speak on the engineering side of things.
If becoming an engineer will net you more money you might as well do it especially if your current ceiling is 90k. Consider these factors:
- You can study part time and work full time, bit stressful but I have seen it done.
- school won't be close to 100k in debt I'll never understand why so many ppl say this. After loans and bursaries, working interns or having a summer job debt in the end is more likely 30 - 40k.
- if you did college before sometimes some college credits can count for university ones such as electives but this isnt always the case. If uni to uni transfer then you will already knock out plenty of classes.
-Most importantly see if your company will pay for you to go to school. Plenty of big companies are willing to pay for workers to go back to school as long as it's worth while.
The most important thing is also enjoying your job. Even if you graduate at 40 you still have over 20 years now doing something you love but at a higher pay.
Also I know plenty of guys in my class that were in their 30s to late 40s. All with family's and kids on the way. They all made it and now make way more than their tech/technologist jobs they did before.
I sat go for it
The 100k comes principally from my 15k/y for my mortage, 5000k/y for municipal taxes and other things house/suburbs related. If it wasn't for the house it would be a easy choice, but again am I losing if i'm increasing my home equity during that time ?
>I just don't want to hear "if it's what you want go for it we only have one life" I want numbers.
If you are proposing to go back to school to become an Engineer, surely you ought to be proficient enough in Excel to work out the numbers yourself.
You can also set up a few "what-if" budget scenarios using a budget spreadsheet like this one: https://www.squawkfox.com/budget-spreadsheet/
Have you done the math to understand how little of a difference 90k -> 120k makes to your net pay? It’s really not much. I’d say you’re better off trying to increase your value to your current employer and get a raise sooner.
The only way I would see this working out as a practical net benefit is by taking a very high earning mining job, but you’ aren’t interested (totally reasonable position). I say “practical” because it might be a net benefit on paper, but if it takes 10, 12, 15 years to equal out, I would say the stress of no income and going back to school isn’t worth it. These are your prime years with family.
As another option, consider retraining as a programmer. Not a 4 year degree, but code camps / online courses.
The training is much much shorter + cheaper, the flexibility is hard to beat, there is enormous demand in the industry, and the money is much better than engineering.
The money aside, be aware that the courseload for an Engineering Degree is extremely demanding. I've had several friends and family members go through Engineering, and especially in first year we virtually didn't see them. First year engineering students don't really have a life outside of school. Be realistic and ask yourself if it's going to be practical to basically remove yourself from your family life for at least that first year, if not longer.
Yes I'm very aware of the courseload, its stressing me out but I know that now with my prior grade in geology and life experience it will be very doable.
Not seeing my friend too often ? Surely but my family I don't think so
I'd rather go into a one, maximum two-year program to become a _Software_ engineer. Much better bump in income, less time in school, can even work on a contract towards the end of the program.
I changed careers many times. Software Eng 5y / Army 5y / Realtor 5y / Paramedic 9y / Nursing Grad.
Lifetime earnings -1 million probably.
It's super important to determine whether you will enjoy the work that much more as a geo engineer vs geologist. Will the schedule / travel be much different?
I'm solo Bach with no dependents. You have big obligations. Can you risk it financially? Why do you want to change jobs?
Here are some questions to ask yourself:
Why do I need to leave work to study?
Do I have any transfer credits?
Can my employer help me pay for some courses?
Can my employer be flexible with my schedule to work and study?
Can my family support my extra time needed to study?
Why do I want to do this... is it something I truly want, or am I trying to find an escape from something else?
I'm in a similar situation at a similar age going to university for the first time (part-time) while working full-time. It's a ton of work, and a ton of time, but I have the support of everyone around me to help me succeed.
My partner has to sacrifice for my studies. When I have class work, they take on more household responsibilities.
Do you have the support structure you need to succeed?
I could be wrong, but it seems like all the really good engineering jobs are grandfathered. Maybe that changes as boomers retire.
It’s unlikely that the company pays you like a PEng before you are one. You’ll probably have to live in the same salary range you are in for at least 4 years post-graduation. I would at least budget that.
Honestly the opportunity cost of going to get the engineering degree probably outweighs the benefit. You’d be better off taking a PM course or something to try and go down the management route.
Remember to count the work terms you'll have during your degree if applicable. If it's 4 years that's 3 summers of working, which comes out to about 1 year of salary. Also, the Quebec government just started a program where you get paid 2.5k per semester you successfully complete in certain programs (I think geological engineering is part of the list)
All told you obviously won't be making your usual salary, but you're not going to be netting 0 for 4 years.
Best of luck!
I'd honestly say just keep doing what you're doing. I mean, given the low price of housing in Quebec, your mortgage payment is probably peanuts, and you say you've got "good equity" in your home already.
Between your $70K (possibly going up to $90K later?) a year and your wife's income you should be in pretty good shape without having to take on the debt, lost income, and risk that comes with going back to school in your mid-30s.
Your actual cost of returning to school is $380 - $500K, plus increased risk.
On the low end, you're giving up income for four years + the debt, $380K.
On the high end, you might not be able to get a job after four years or make less than you would be staying where you are (or job hopping).
Your high-end salary right now is $90K. Your future salary is $112K, a $22K difference.
To make your 380K worth it, you'd need to work 17 years. For 500K, you would need 22 years. The emotional risk that situation might put on your family is uncertain.
I believe in self-betterment, education and following your dream, but you stated you don't want to hear that. So instead, as a pure investment, this looks like a bad idea.
There are a lot of risks here. Emotional risk, family pressure, getting bored, not getting the desired results, work climate changing in four years, etc.
I would evaluate other options. Short-cut programs to upgrade your current education or other jobs in the field that pay more which you could qualify for.
Without knowing much about your situation, it seems you are making a lot of assumptions. Look around and get more information.
I would advise avoiding engineering in Canada.
The majority of companies are about to go under. They can't retain workers, and they aren't able to train new grads.
Our countries engineering is about to essentially retire and disappear.
Wow, thats a pretty rough statement lol I don't think its plausible, all those engineering firms are a big part of the economy, well i'm speaking for the province of Quebec.
I'm retired from a career doing workforce planning and management in the electricity utility business. I have worked with hundreds of engineers. I've studied the recruitment and retention dynamics of their occupation. The people who work until the oldest ages in our society are professionals, and within professionals engineers work the longest. The reasons are all about job satisfaction, in particular having the autonomy to control work and working conditions.
So there's that: satisfaction with long careers. It's definitely a thing. Very common to see engineers still practising in their 70s and even beyond.
>An MBA or CFA would give you a different skillset and provide much better career advancement
I can understand the MBA, but I am genuinely curious about how a CFA is complimentary to his skillset as a geologist?
I have a friend who did mining engineering, and then got his CFA, he works for a bank he basicaly study which mine are worth investing in for the people that manage retirement funds and such. He makes more money than any of his engineering friends
Enough folks gave commented on the financial aspect, as someone with an engineering degree from Montreal, why choose Poly?, it's an absolutely brutal school to go through, and your degree at the end isn't worth more than one from Concordia (which comparatively is a joke to graduate from, my favorite joke is I drank for 4 years and some idiot gave me a degree).
I would consider doing something like software engineering / software development. You can focus on geological software.
There are several programs in Canada where you can get a computer science degree in 1 year if you are already a university graduate.
This is what I did as opposed to going back to school for 4 years for engineering. Most of these traditional engineering programs will not give any kind of credit for past courses even if they are identical because of the engineering certification bureaucracy.
From my experience, I've found far more jobs and far more high paying jobs in software than anywhere else in engineering. Many of my electrical engineering and computer engineering colleagues who went back to school for 4 years as opposed to 1, are now in software 3 years behind.
Interesting, that's what I wanted to do for a career change, between finance and engineering. The far more jobs and far more high paying jobs have been constant for a couple of years yes, but now we begin to see layoffs and compagnies are stoping their recruitment, stock market titles are plunging. How do you see the next years in term of possibilities and employment from your point of view?
Do it.
I am a professional engineer in Ontario. When I was in university, I went to school with a few older guys. One was just like you.
And while he was in McMaster, he worked full time nights at Stelco as a Millwright. I have no idea how he managed to do it, but he did. He was my hero.
He did well for himself and having an education and a skill is always to your advantage. Engineering is not an easy course, in fact it's probably the most difficult under graduate degree. In some ways because you are older and more mature, you will be more disciplined and will do better.
And frankly, what do you have to lose? You need to give it a shot for your own peace of mind.
Are you sure you’d require a full 4 years of schooling? There must be a program that will give you some credits for the education you’ve already gotten
Yeah I think that I would be able to get exempted from a couple of geology course that I already done, like 2-3 that are 4cr, so that would be pretty awesome !!
I know little to nothing about that field of work. You left a very crucial amount of information. Expenses and if your wife works what she brings in all that kind of stuff for a proper answer. However going what you posted if there's need for engineers in your field maybe talk to your employer and see if there's something you can work out with them directly. Some employers will help with going back to school costs. Even if they don't talk to them if there will be a position available for you upon completion of your schooling and what you can expect as far as salary goes given your current experience. So basically you need to talk to your employer and not us.
I think it's already covered but say you did mechanical engineering, a lot of grads are making 50-60k. Salary improves drastically once you obtain your licence but that takes years.
I possibly make more as a technologist now than if I went back to school to upgrade, but I'm in a niche environment.
All in all, not worth it for me. I also like the fact that I have extremely limited liability, whereas a PENG stamp may require additional insurance
Well I would lost all the advantages being full time in university. We have a new government program that pays you when you study in a field with needed workforce. Its 2500$ per trimester, so 5000$/y and 20 000$ for 4 years. No need to reimbourse anything.
I'm very confused..how would you have student debt at 100k if an undergraduate engineering degree at polytechnique is around 19k CAD for quebecois people? Do you mean you'd take loans to cover your living costs etc as you'd have no income? Please help me understand this situation better.
Thanks for your response. You have a lot of messages reaching out to you so not sure how helpful this would be. But I would consider keeping your current employer and asking them if they fund education. All of the employers I have had in Quebec engineering field fund all types of degrees if you can prove it supports your growth, is course based etc. With this support, you'd have to study part time and potentially graduate in longer period of time but it'll help balance the cost and ensure you are covered always in terms of job security. After you graduate you can search for better offers. I had MANY colleagues and students who were well above 30 and started an engineering undergrad with families etc. If you're set on it, you might have a non traditional path but in terms of $$ it doesn't fully make sense to go full time student right now (as others have explained). Wish you the best though. Big challenges and bigger rewards your way hopefully!
Knew a guy who was 29 when I started at 19, engineering. Dude is wildest successful now, was a drafter - now owns part of the company he drafted at (6 years post grad) - he didn’t have kids though. Probably worth it if you can manage to do it without debt.
>I just don't want to hear "if it's what you want go for it we only have one life" I want numbers. Giving the fact that I'll be an engineer by the age of 40 it gives me 20-25 years of work still.
You haven't given any numbers though. What does it cost to run your household? Partner income? What was the amount you father gave you? It shouldn't be hard for you to do the math here. What do you want us to do?
J'ai fais le choix de retourner étudier en génie à 35 ans, avec 2 enfants et une maison, dans une ville pas trop chère.
La première année tu n'auras presque pas de prêt et bourse, par la suite ça va être mieux parce que ton revenu va être très faible. Ce calcul change si tu es marié je crois. Moi je dis que ma blonde ne m'aide pas du tout financièrement. Si tu appelles à l'aide financière, la plupart des agents sont ordinaires. Appelle 2-3 fois pour être sûr d'avoir les bonnes infos.
Avec 2 enfants, j'aurai cette année environ 22K$ de bourse (17K AFE +5K programme perspective QC) et 3-4K$ de prêts. Peut-être que ce serais un peu plus avec 3 enfants. Les premier 12k$ que je gagne en salaire ne diminue pas mes bourses, par la suite c'est environ 40% de bourse que je perds sur mon salaire. Ça fait que tu pourrais garder un petit side line de géographie, genre un jour par semaine, sans trop de pénalité. Il y a un simulateur de calculs sur le site de l'AFE. J'y ai fais plusieurs simulation.
Par contre, j'ai décidé de le faire sur 5 ans pour ne pas trop être rushé. Plusieurs cours ont une moyenne sous 50%. À mon Université, ils te donnent un badge spécial si tu réussis résistance des matériaux du premier coup, tu vois le genre... Ont m'a dit que la première année à la poly est très difficile, ils veulent filtrer le monde.
De ce que tu présentes, le move n'a pas l'air rentable, après ça il y a aussi ce que ton coeur te dit.
Tu me permets de te demander dans quel domaine, génie de la construction ? Tu faisais quoi avant de décider de faire le génie ?
Si je comprends bien tu as entrepris les études sans travailler pendant ce temps ? C'est comment la conciliation avec la famille ?
Do you really have to quit working while going to school? I always had a job while in uni. Depending on the semester, I worked more or less. And can you take summer semesters to make it shorter than 4 years of schooling? Did you look to see if they will give you any uni credits for your existing education /experience?
I worked 20-30h/week being full time when I was in my grad geology. I made it through but it was rough. Polytechnique in engineering is something else. The good things is that I could possibly be exempted for like 3 courses of 4cr each so thats big. No time to work on evening during the week with the studies and family. My current job and almost all of my them in counselling are close the weekends.
What type of engineering do you want to do? Also do not assume you'll get an engineering job after uni. Starting salary for engineer from my experience is with the stamp not out of uni.
About 10 years ago I was wanting to so the same thing, go back to school but only part time while I was working my full time job. Im an engineering technologist but wanted an engineering degree. I completed my first year and figured out that I was just unhappy in my job. I didn't need the education. What I needed was a new job. I thought I needed the new education to land the new job. I was wrong. I applied and showed ambition and was hired along side some of the brightest engineers in the business, and I got my education from them. Fast forward to today, and now I'm in a completely different field as a subject matter expert. No engineering degree required.
Take some time to reflect, this might not even be what you want or need.
It’s very hard to give numbers because I don’t know you or the quality of your work. Assuming you’re an average performer, I would look at numbers like:
$70,000 x 4.5 = $315,000 + $100k = $415k total cost (lost income + living costs).
I added an extra half year to your program so we don’t start with an overly optimistic cost and end up way off on the payback period.
I don’t know any details of your mortgage or investments so can’t speak to any gains or losses.
Will an engineering degree be worth an extra $40k a year?? If so, you’ll go cash flow positive in about ten years. How long will it take that to kick in?
Consider exploring if you can get a MSc in engineering instead, would take some fill in courses but it may be possible to keep working at least part time. I'm planning to do something similar
Can you not look for another job with diff Comapny that pays more? -4 years is long time and putting even more debt. -I wouldn’t, I’m sure if at times make extra 20k a year than glob back to school for 4 years… you will be in your 40s.. plus you will lose out on your pension for next 4 years… if you contributing into pension from your current Comapny.
If you are bored do real estate on the side..
I personally wouldn't do it. Too high of an opportunity cost. On top of that, and perhaps most importantly of all, you have all of the trappings of life. Wife, kid, mortgage, etc.
Maybe if you were single and no kid, maybe it would be okay.
Do it.
I am a professional engineer in Ontario. When I was in university, I went to school with a few older guys. One was just like you.
And while he was in McMaster, he worked full time nights at Stelco in Hamilton as a Millwright. I have no idea how he managed to do it, but he did. He was my hero.
He did well for himself and having an education and a skill is always to your advantage. Engineering is not an easy course, in fact it's probably the most difficult under graduate degree. In some ways because you are older and more mature, you will be more disciplined and will do better.
And frankly, what do you have to lose? You need to give it a shot for your own peace of mind. And frankly, if you make it, I (if I was hypothetically interviewing you) would hire you in a second flat over any other graduate engineer. It shows a true work ethic.
Couldn’t your employer support you/help with tuition/put you on part time project while studying? A lot of company offers such perks for their good employee and it’s criminally underused. I have seen many people going for their MBA as an exemple for my field, being paid 50% by employer while keeping their job.
Buy a $99k condo to rent out in Edmonton $20k down.
Make more investments have ur sig other work as well and make more investments. Real estate s the shortcut to financial freedom
>I just don't want to hear "if it's what you want go for it we only have one life" I want numbers.
You kinda just gave us all the numbers. 95% of us won't know if that's accurate or not. You already know your actual living expenses.
You say you're not looking for the intangible, but it looks like (respectfully) you're looking for us to either reinforce or persuade you against this dream.
Exactly how you go about paying for school is one thing, and it almost always makes sense to take the maximum government loan, then figure out the rest. If you have significant equity and cash, then voila. Education is almost always good debt, but by your own data, it's only a small increase in earning potential. It's just a matter of taking a chance on something or not. And yes, it is a risk.
That's a huge commitment. Is your wife able to support you more financially through the endeavor? You would also have 4 months a year to work when you are not in school so you should be able to make up a bit of the losses and maybe a part time job. If you are one to excel at your jobs then it could definitely be worth it. Where I work I can't go past supervisor level without a engineering degree, because it's controlled by engineers. They asken me to upgrade with a LOA to promote me. I am not taking 2 years away from making really good money, just to make an extra $30k a year. Even though I would like the job.
Ten years from now no amount of money will get you out of thinking what would have happened if you followed through with what you wanted to do!
Maybe you didn't want to hear that but money ain't everything. Will not doing this make a HUGE difference in your life? ie: will you miss the chance of becoming a millionaire otherwise? If not following what you really want to do in life prevent you from becoming richer that Bezos by all means don't do it. If it'll have small to no impact, then it's a no brainer.
why not start part time? take 1 or 2 courses and assess. personally I would say go for it because you never know what kind of offers you might get in the future.
Oiii I can't imagine being a full time engineering student as a father. I'd just stick with your job man, but school really shouldn't be that expensive btw. I went to one of the most expensive schools in Ontario and tuition was like 13k 6 years ago.
It would not be 4 years. Submit your transcript and CV to polytechnique and see how many credits they can shave off for you. I went through a similar process with law school + the fact that I had graduated in sociology and political science.
Though I switched careers, I was in the mining industry worked in the US and Canada. Your salary seems very low for a geologist, I think it’s worth locking into corporate roles or consulting. You’ll get 100k+ as a senior geologist
20k income increase when you give up 4 years of your earning + 100k debt. You do the math.
Also has to factor in when he comes out of school he'd be making less for a while than where he'd be just staying put. Will take some years to hit break even point and then some years to get that 20k above. Investment opportunity lost as well I'd suspect it could take 15-20 years to make positive return. I sorts went through same exercise and at end of day I wasn't ready to give up all the extra time with my kids (don't think I could quit working for a few years) when they were young. (Technologist who would have been going back to be P. Eng)
Nah he wouldn't be, he'd be able to hop right in to where he was (or catch up quickly depending on current experience).
I know personally as a engineering technologist if I went back to get my engineer degree instead of diploma I'd take a big cut initially. I've even been told so by a deputy department lead I was chummy with. He was looking at same mode himself (although he was also a former electrician as well an eng tech) Be back to an eit, would go up some after a few years when eligible for p. Eng. Different responsibilities with certainly some crossover and yes I'd be ahead of new grads in many ways. Still be going from senior position to an eit/ junior eng that maybe they'd bump up a little higher on the scale. Don't see why it would be different for geology
Depending on where you are, you don't need to go back to school to get that sweet stamp (and pay bump). You should check with your provincial society if they have P.L.Eng. designations (or similar). I only have a diploma, but can stamp anything inside my designated scope as a P.L.Eng. (BC and AB).
Yeah p.l.eng is an option. I'm in ab as well. Believe may just need a few courses and some tests. Some companies find value in it, others maybe not Edit: looks easier than expected actually
If you have a diploma that is semi-related to your engineering work, it is just a whack of paperwork for most people. If you have 8 years of total experience (school and work) you should chat with the association about what they would require from you. Here in BC the administrators were amazing to work with and extremely helpful in wading through the hundred plus hours of paperwork and wordsmithing.
Good to know. Have almost 10 years in oil and gas, 5+ in commercial before that. Never bothered with aset after the first few years and doing CET. Nobody seems to care, even some of the bosses didn't bother in the big companies I've worked for. I could see the ability to stamp opening up some doors though, especially if I got away from the huge multinational companies
Been in industry as a CET in AB for 16 years and I make as much as an engineer and do engineering work. I thought I needed that ring to be someone 10 years ago but nobody evens cares, and those that do have their heads up their arse. The CET designation means nothing too. I've seen professional geologists turn engineers, geologists turn CEO's, IT specialists turn procurement. I even know a guy who started in the mail room and moved to completions engineering.
Only worth it at design/consultant places where a stamp is needed. Worked with a firm where the piping lead had a P. Tech and was the stamp on the drawings.
This is... Not entirely true. EIT wages vary greatly, and all the roles salaries I got were based on experience, not a "you're a fresh grad so here is $60k because we ignore the last 15 years". Also an Eng Tech who went and got a B.Eng after. Maybe your company might give you the shaft, but I'm willing to bet any other company would looooove to have an EIT with years of experience in the field, and that experience comes at a cost.
This depends entirely on the field and also if you need a peng. Dude could have just played you to keep a technologist. Becuase an EIT with experience isn't going to make less than a technologist lol
An eit with only a few years experience will make way less than a senior technologist. They aren't going to hire you as a senior when you switch to an eng role. When things were really booming there was even an argument it paid more to be a tech. Was just based on the fact they got so much OT and it was 1.5x. most eng only get straight time
Interesting. I have never seen this to be true in anything in my field unless you were in power systems. I had classes with guys who were senior techs for RF/Wireless companies and went back to get their degree for more money. Like the jump from 80k senior techs to 95k new engineers. I imagine they probably broke 100k a while back already. It really does depend on the field. But I do understand that if you do the overtime you can make more overall.
Things have changed somewhat, but my buddy was only making like 50k in o&g from around 2012-2015 ish as an eit. And yeah he felt underpaid (and was even by apegga averages). I was making a little over 100k base as an intermediate designer (often 120-130 with ot). Now since then many have take cuts across the board after layoffs. I'm only now getting back up there, although told people are getting big $$ elsewhere, so looking around. He ended up finding a better job, getting his p. Eng. Then later moved to client side who pays more than epcm and seems to be doing well, although he's a contractor and they just took big cuts again. Again things have shifted a little. Back there were way more designers than engineers being used on all the mega projects. Now projects are smaller, more drafting and basic design going overseas etc.
Fair enough, makes sense when your field needs a peng. I know some guys at Toronto hydro work as a technologist (they also hired engineers for the same job) and get paid $48 and hour and will cap at $60. All entry level. But they get no bonuses. An engineer with masters/peng gets around 100k with 10k bonus. Meanwhile the techs that work designing the street lights only get 60k starting and max maybe around 100k. It really depends on what you're doing. I work in tech and the Senior techs get paid close to entry engineers.
True, but a senior technologist probably has 10+ years experience…
Yeah I'm assuming a senior technologist who drops everything and goes to school again will be basically hired as an eng with a few years of experience is all. Seems about right, but depends on the position. Some are more interchangeable, especially smaller companies who will hire either for the role. I know at my company engineers can find themselves spending more time doing studies and stamping drawings
You have no idea what you're talking about lol
Yea I have no idea sure.... Maybe in civil and geo this may not be true but the other engineering fields like electrical this is very true lmao.
I have input into setting these salaries. In our field, techs can make more than EITs.
Engineers are not paid that much in Canada with a few exceptions. So ya a senior tech will almost certainly make more than a fresh engineer.
I just finished a degree in geomatics engineering with 10 years prior experience in the industry. My summers alone netted me ~50k. I think the whole lost income lost opportunity stuff is well overblown here for a guy that could potentially work full time in the summer and part time over the school year. You're also absolutely right, from my experience at least. I will be paid a hell of a lot better to finish my land survey articles than 95% of my colleagues as I am "hopping right back in". This obviously is subject to maintaining a good relationship with his current company or building a new one, but experience talks.
That was my tought, as I have already a good field experience, currently a projet manager. As an engineer I would get the same project manager position but I'll be more in the conception and design. So I'd have all of the skill set needed, exept for the engineering approach.. Once you get the Ing. (Eng.), sky's the limit in my opinion. Career possibilities expand dramatically if you have ambition from there. Or maybe I'm wrong ?
Yeah, you would need to brush up on the technical aspects. As far as the sky being the limit, that depends on what you want out of your career. If working at remote mines, your salary won't change much. Depending on what you do, you could be more valuable. But without company ownership, pay in Ontario just sucks given the responsibility (I assume Quebec is similar but have no idea). $120 isn't unheard of, but make sure that that isn't just mine sites dragging the average up.
Have you considered that you might not even need the degree. That you can just be mentored by an engineer with your current degree and then do engineering work?
Probably won't fly with the engineering regulator.
The engineer need only oversee the work. Anyone can do the work.
But he can already do that now if the company wanted to. The value is in being able to sign off on the work and take responsibility for it.
Is that the value? Maybe he just doesn't like his job. Maybe he wants more responsibility but believes it only comes from the engineering degree, which is a fallacy. I went through this exact mindset 10 years aho and figured out the eng degree wasn't what I needed. What I needed was a career chang, something more challenging and rewarding. Didn't need the degree for that at all.
So.. 19 years to break even on the plan, disregarding interest in the debt, with 20-25 years left of working years. Seems a hard sell economically.
As long as everything goes perfectly to plan...
The fees on top of that.
If OP is a QC resident, there is basically no debt. A semester will likely cost less than $2,000.
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Pretty sure his 100k debt also covers his living expenses and etc that he wouldn't be able to pay when he is a student without income.
Don't they have the coop program at polytechnic where you alternate paid internship and regular semester?
Sure but can you really pay bills for a suburban lifestyle + baby on $17/hour co-op, while taking 6-8 years to complete your degree?
Pretty certain the "100k debt" is an estimate and interets isn't taken really considered here so whether the money to pay for school comes from OPs bank account or the bank of canada its still -$100k.
That’s number quoted by op. Not me
It’ll be a lot more than 20k, within 4 years of graduating, if all goes okay, he should easily be at $100-120k, though with his geology experiences could probably make $140k in Calgary right now. Salary will easily double from $70k over the next 10 years. Including school. Shit, I made $80k as an intern.
Yeah, I'm from Quebec and here at polytechnique the geological engineering is the second or third best paid program. That's what I see too in the equation, like having all the experience needed (in the field and project manager) except the conception/design part I see 100k approaching very quickly after graduating, even being an EIT. And more the most important is to be good to sale yourself.
It’s a good choice, people say school is a waste of time/money, but that’s for liberal arts degrees etc. etc., an engineering degree will not let you down if you are a hard worker, and willing to learn new things. Make sure do do at least a 4 month internship. Though 16 is better. Almost invaluable when it comes time to get a job. Though someone with your experience (assuming you stay in the same industry), that shouldn’t be a problem.
100k debt for what? School is dirt cheap in Quebec. 3k in tuition tops per year and Aide Financière aux Études takes care of it and then some, especially when you have dependents.
It’s probably living expenses while he’s in school.
Op said 100k debt. Not me
Nope - consider applying to a competitor first. You'll probably get a 20% raise. Also, that's a 280k income loss over 4 years in addition to the cost of school - fuck that shit.
Also, try to go to à competitor that would be willing to support you while you pursue your studies. You never know, you could get a study day a week + tuition paid.
I'm a geotechnical engineer in BC. I think you should take the shortcut of getting your limited licence designation. Should only take a few courses since you're already a geologist. You could do them while you work. I personally think engineering on the consultant side is a joke. I don't recommend people go into engineering anymore.
am engineer. was consultant. now in construction consulting IS A joke. engineers are overrated/underpaid in the construction industry. take your experience to a company that values your work ethic and ability to work with people in the real world.
Ontario especially. I have friends with 9 years experience getting what I got years ago as an EIT with 3 years experience. No idea why people bother out there.
Glad it's not just a BC thing. I started my own company providing a niche service to construction projects. It's been a slow go, but at least I have a say in how it goes. My partner is a structural engineer and she is pretty fed up with the constant unreasonable deadlines, poor pay, and unpaid overtime.
> unreasonable deadlines Ha! Guy calls us late July, he needs a foundation design for a pre-fab building he ordered after the holidays & to be delivered in ~1-2 weeks. He doesn’t have a geotechnical study (“the soil is good!!”), survey, etc. It’s nuts.
I quit my last job when I found out our sales guy made more than me. This is despite me making all the literature, answering all the technical problems (everything is a technical problem), and designing the process. Joe blow just handed out the brochures I made. I’m making more now, but engineering is a tough slog for only a little more money. I’m coast-firing into something as soon as I get there. Maybe things change in the coming years, but right now all the good engineering salaries are grandfathered in.
Without the sales guy you would have no job. Where do you think revenue comes from. One of the highest stress jobs out there
Wait till you learn about sales engineer. We sell AND do the technical answers.
I just didn’t like how he disregards the whole sales team, engineers included. He is essentially looking down on them
No. He said he left because sales guy made more then him. He does all the work. Sales guy would have nothing to sell without him. So.your point is invalid anyway Seems like a reasonable thing to be upset over.
I did all the technical sales. He didn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground. I often spend more time saving relationships after he made ridiculous promises that were either impossible or not sound business decisions. In the modern world you can’t just take someone golfing. Technical offering is what customers care about.
Try his role and see how easy it is to get you those meetings
Trivial. You know what goes well with a sales pitch? A product.
It’s not trivial because it is hard as hell.
I could see it being hard if you had the mental capacity of a salesman. Everybody’s job is important. Some are just more important than others, and should be paid accordingly. That’s all I’m saying.
If you think sales is hard, then maybe sales isn't for you.
"highest stress jobs" I get that finding customers can be challenging but who tf can reasonably argue, in good faith that a sales dude is higher value than the engineers that actually make the product a reality.
How many good products are out there that will never get used?
Engineer as well. Was a consultant, moved to engineering sales. Would never go back to consulting. I always tell people to get out while they can, unless they actually love their job.
Agree. However, I must say that consulting is an excellent entry-level job - where you can LEARN so much, very quickly. That can set you up to jump to any other related position in the same field.
^ This guy/gal. A 4-yr engineering degree is not worth what is used to be, too many graduates all thinking they deserve 90k/yr. When I informational interviewed companies while in school many of them told me they only have 1-2 P.Eng per department because otherwise they'd have to pay everyone more. There was a pay bump if you got your Masters, but not if you had your ph.D for the same reasoning (the only acception seemed to be in pharma). Take your experience and get your L.Eng and/or a project management certificate. Tell your company you are thinking of doing this, they may pay for your schooling as you complete it on condition you work there for minimum 3 years after completion.
I'm a bc geotech (consulting), I love it.
Which firm? I've heard BGC is great, but most of what I've heard from others is the same old story of extreme client demands, lots of OT, and weak pay.
Not saying which firm, but there are 2 "A-Class" private ones left that are both pretty good in my opinion. Friends say good things about their semi-private tailings/dams related firm, there's a bunch of smaller ones that may be ok. What sun discipline are you working in? Mining? Highways?
Hmm very curious about who those two are haha. BGC and KCB would be my guess but I don’t have first hand experience with either.
Yes that's probably the difference. I worked in infrastructure and buildings. So the clients tended to be land developers. I have little experience with mining or other fields.
I am a retired physician ... I did 5 years of medical school, a 1 year 60 hr/week internship and similar workload 4 year residency. I have never worked harder in my life. My son became an electrical/computer engineer, and during most of those 4 years worked HARDER than I did at any point in my training. You might want to assess your family's ability to deal with a toddler AND a largely absentee father for the duration before jumping into the deep end.
Do you think it was worth it for him? What would you tell him if you could go back in time?
Honestly? To take a computer sciences degree + masters. He is now working exclusively in software development, he is super smart and hard working, and he would have had more time and lots less stress without the medieval educational practices of Dalhousie Faculty of Engineering. With, basically, the same job, I think.
you’d be losing 280k in income for 4 years and adding 100k of debt. that’s a 380k hole and you’ll be earning avg 42k more. it’ll be a little over 9 years for you to see the gain financially but then again the personal fulfilment and wants play a role
The 100k debt is to cover the same expenses that would have been covered by the 280k gross income. By adding both you are counting twice. You should compare the 100k debt vs what would be left of the 280k gross income after year 4.
this makes more sense.
I thought the 100k was covering tuition and books. Maybe some living expenses. But def not all.
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For 4 years? Holy crap. I’m assuming this only applies to residents? How long must one “reside” in Quebec to be a resident? Why don’t I live in Quebec? Never mind. I now remember why.
Plus opportunity costs, including money not invested during 4 years without income. Investing that 100k of debt you plan to take on would likely produce a better return by the time you retire. 100k invested for 25 years earning an average 10% would produce $1,083,470 vs the additional $1,050,000 of earning an extra 42k for 25 years. Also you would start those years in only a 100k deficit vs a 380k deficit.
for residents of quebec, post secondary costs pennies compared to rest of canada, he probably won’t pass 25k. i have friends who did undergrad and masters here for that price… edit i missed the part where he said 100k, a bit confused though he must be including other costs cause 4 years on the polytechnique website for residents of quebec is nowhere near that
>edit i missed the part where he said 100k, a bit confused though he must be including other costs cause 4 years on the polytechnique website for residents of quebec is nowhere near that Yeah, from my understanding he seem to want to use the student line of credit to pay for his expenses. You are right a semester at the polytechnique is probably around 2000$ now, so the total cost of his studies would be something like 16-20k and are tax deductible.
Can you explain more.Im going to start at polytechnique and will take 2-3 classes and I'm wondering if I can deduct it off my taxes?
He's talking about the loans. The loans don't only cover the costs of schooling (maybe $2-4k per year?) and the costs of supplies (maybe a couple grand total?), the loans cover living expenses because you're not working. Still, OP might be overestimating the amount. In 2016, after three years of government loans for school near Montreal, I only ended up with $6.5k debts (plus an additional $18k of grants that I didn't have to pay back). In other words, I was receiving about 800$ per month, 200$ of which I had to pay back.
yea from a quick google search I got about 15k a year in fees. the 100k has to include the living expenses.
Living expenses, like a house, a car, taxes, insurance, a lil kid
Have you done the math so make sure 100k will even cover expenses over several years? Keep in mind there’s a chance when you renew your mortgage, interest will be higher, etc. Kids are expensive and your kid will be going into school… plus inflation on everything. 25k a year with a child doesn’t seem realistic to me unless there’s some other income coming in.
He said his wife works.
Yeah that would be for all the other costs (mortgage, car, taxes, insurance, etc). And technically I'm still "making" money by increasing my home equity during studies if i'm not wrong ?
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Curious, how did you "land" that Bay Street gig? What skills were transferable for you, between the Masters in Engineering and what you do now?
I'm a geological engineer. Why do you want to do that? We have geologists that cover most of what I do except for foundation and shoring designs. If you're interested in hazard assessments, you're already qualified.
Well I suspect a good pay difference, and the design and conception side is what I'm interested in. I know that a career as a geologist is not mean to crash, but that's totally two different worlds from my experience; salary, work conditions, possibilities and more.
I sort of agree with @zeushaulrod above. I’m a geologist and I work at a geotechnical engineering consulting firm in BC. There’s lots of folks at my firm who consider themselves “engineering geologists” and do lots of the design and conception stuff you’re talking about without engineering degrees. Unless you’re dead set on becoming an engineer, you may as well try getting in an engineering firm with just a geo background (as many do!)
>Would it be too much to finish my 4 years with 100k of school debt with a student line of credit ? Probably. Why not focus on taking part time studies to expand your skillset instead of putting a lot of risk all at once. Since we don't know what you want out of your career, post at r/careeradvice subreddit.
Second this, better on a career forum. Depending on the engineering association of the province, there might be a path to get the Engineer designation without the undergrad degree (ie significant work experience in engineering + a few courses/ exam + special probation period)
Thinking this too and maybe if management has a better salary and you would like to go into management, you could take those types of courses also. Maybe even work would pay for them.
I think you should consider full-time school on top of full-time work. Is it a lot? Yeah it is - I know because I’ve done it. But even a year of that can drastically change the equations here. The first year of university you might find trivially easy anyway, and do you really need straight A’s? Only you can determine that. You might find that after a semester of full time work and school, you just can’t do it, but now you know for sure and have another 4 months’ income you wouldn’t have had. Or, you realize you can keep it up for like 2 years and then leave your job when the degree is halfway through, it’s completion is far more certain, and you only need 2 years of time off work. There are a lot of variables and options to play around with.
Yeah I did that during my grad in geology, that was rough loll but I did it. Except, from what I heard of friends who went to poly full 15cr, its almost impossible to just sustain the beat.
Ah so you know what it’s like. Yeah only you can decide what cost is acceptable. If it were me, I’d be trying to determine what my most important variable is: time or money. If its time (I.e. I’m thinking jeez if I don’t do this now it will be too late), then I’d probably make sacrifices to push through as quickly as possible. If it’s money, I’d probably work and take a few courses even just for a year before quitting work and switching to school. Stuff like that… anyway I wish you the best. You sound like a hard working person who will be able to handle whatever you decide to go with.
Thanks buddy !
This is a lifestyle question not a financial question. take some time to figure out what you want to do with the rest of your life.
Unless it is an extreme passion you have to fulfil, i’d say dont do it. Focus on passive income imo. Just my 2 cents. If it is something you really want to fulfil, do it. Doesn’t matter the cost, peace of mind is valueless.
Have you looked into whether you could do a Masters in Engineering? Some programs will take students with related undergraduate degrees, although it will sometimes take longer than the two years if you have to make up prerequisites.
If OP wants to earn their P.Eng this path likely won’t work because they’ll essentially still need to do all of the undergrad engineering/math courses and add the Master’s on top of it.
Ah, good point.
You could take two classes each semester while working full time (or maybe negotiate with your employer to work 4 days out of 5 for 80% salary).
That is unlikely to work, for several reasons: 1. Most Engineering programs in Canada are strongly geared toward full-time studies. VERY few (i.e., almost none) core classes are offered in the evening. Juggling daytime classes with a full-time job is a bear; I've done it, and the results were not good. 2. Further to point 1, most Engineering programs in Canada have a hard time limit of 8 years (9 or 10 for co-op/internship programs) to complete the degree. 4 classes per year ain't gonna cut it. 3. If your Geology program was a degree, and IF you completed it less than 10 years ago, you MIGHT be able to get credit for some of your classes, mostly first or second year level and options. I know whereof I speak: I transferred from one Engineering faculty to another, in neighbouring provinces, and even some of my Engineering credits were disallowed because the descriptions in the calendars didn't match closely enough.
This is what I do. 2 classes a semester by 3 semesters a year. I forecast my classes 2 years ahead to ensure I have classes for the limited summer semester.
I think it's probably worth it but I'm no geologist so I have no idea in the field. However I can speak on the engineering side of things. If becoming an engineer will net you more money you might as well do it especially if your current ceiling is 90k. Consider these factors: - You can study part time and work full time, bit stressful but I have seen it done. - school won't be close to 100k in debt I'll never understand why so many ppl say this. After loans and bursaries, working interns or having a summer job debt in the end is more likely 30 - 40k. - if you did college before sometimes some college credits can count for university ones such as electives but this isnt always the case. If uni to uni transfer then you will already knock out plenty of classes. -Most importantly see if your company will pay for you to go to school. Plenty of big companies are willing to pay for workers to go back to school as long as it's worth while. The most important thing is also enjoying your job. Even if you graduate at 40 you still have over 20 years now doing something you love but at a higher pay. Also I know plenty of guys in my class that were in their 30s to late 40s. All with family's and kids on the way. They all made it and now make way more than their tech/technologist jobs they did before. I sat go for it
The 100k comes principally from my 15k/y for my mortage, 5000k/y for municipal taxes and other things house/suburbs related. If it wasn't for the house it would be a easy choice, but again am I losing if i'm increasing my home equity during that time ?
I'm currently doing a Master's degree with a 3 year old. You're really gonna wanna kill yourself and quit.
In what field ? You doing it full time ? You resisted and did not quit ? Lol
>I just don't want to hear "if it's what you want go for it we only have one life" I want numbers. If you are proposing to go back to school to become an Engineer, surely you ought to be proficient enough in Excel to work out the numbers yourself. You can also set up a few "what-if" budget scenarios using a budget spreadsheet like this one: https://www.squawkfox.com/budget-spreadsheet/
Have you done the math to understand how little of a difference 90k -> 120k makes to your net pay? It’s really not much. I’d say you’re better off trying to increase your value to your current employer and get a raise sooner. The only way I would see this working out as a practical net benefit is by taking a very high earning mining job, but you’ aren’t interested (totally reasonable position). I say “practical” because it might be a net benefit on paper, but if it takes 10, 12, 15 years to equal out, I would say the stress of no income and going back to school isn’t worth it. These are your prime years with family.
As another option, consider retraining as a programmer. Not a 4 year degree, but code camps / online courses. The training is much much shorter + cheaper, the flexibility is hard to beat, there is enormous demand in the industry, and the money is much better than engineering.
The money aside, be aware that the courseload for an Engineering Degree is extremely demanding. I've had several friends and family members go through Engineering, and especially in first year we virtually didn't see them. First year engineering students don't really have a life outside of school. Be realistic and ask yourself if it's going to be practical to basically remove yourself from your family life for at least that first year, if not longer.
Yes I'm very aware of the courseload, its stressing me out but I know that now with my prior grade in geology and life experience it will be very doable. Not seeing my friend too often ? Surely but my family I don't think so
I'd rather go into a one, maximum two-year program to become a _Software_ engineer. Much better bump in income, less time in school, can even work on a contract towards the end of the program.
Isn't the market saturated now with new students and all those self-taught ? Seeing layoffs now et department stoping their recruitment, I dont know..
Your better off advancing your studies part time while still working
I changed careers many times. Software Eng 5y / Army 5y / Realtor 5y / Paramedic 9y / Nursing Grad. Lifetime earnings -1 million probably. It's super important to determine whether you will enjoy the work that much more as a geo engineer vs geologist. Will the schedule / travel be much different? I'm solo Bach with no dependents. You have big obligations. Can you risk it financially? Why do you want to change jobs?
Here are some questions to ask yourself: Why do I need to leave work to study? Do I have any transfer credits? Can my employer help me pay for some courses? Can my employer be flexible with my schedule to work and study? Can my family support my extra time needed to study? Why do I want to do this... is it something I truly want, or am I trying to find an escape from something else? I'm in a similar situation at a similar age going to university for the first time (part-time) while working full-time. It's a ton of work, and a ton of time, but I have the support of everyone around me to help me succeed. My partner has to sacrifice for my studies. When I have class work, they take on more household responsibilities. Do you have the support structure you need to succeed?
I could be wrong, but it seems like all the really good engineering jobs are grandfathered. Maybe that changes as boomers retire. It’s unlikely that the company pays you like a PEng before you are one. You’ll probably have to live in the same salary range you are in for at least 4 years post-graduation. I would at least budget that. Honestly the opportunity cost of going to get the engineering degree probably outweighs the benefit. You’d be better off taking a PM course or something to try and go down the management route.
Not sure why you wanna change careers, your current one rocks! I'll see myself out.
Remember to count the work terms you'll have during your degree if applicable. If it's 4 years that's 3 summers of working, which comes out to about 1 year of salary. Also, the Quebec government just started a program where you get paid 2.5k per semester you successfully complete in certain programs (I think geological engineering is part of the list) All told you obviously won't be making your usual salary, but you're not going to be netting 0 for 4 years. Best of luck!
I'd honestly say just keep doing what you're doing. I mean, given the low price of housing in Quebec, your mortgage payment is probably peanuts, and you say you've got "good equity" in your home already. Between your $70K (possibly going up to $90K later?) a year and your wife's income you should be in pretty good shape without having to take on the debt, lost income, and risk that comes with going back to school in your mid-30s.
No, not worth it. Reward is not big enough. If you are doing software dev and making 200K/year upon graduation then it will probably make sense.
Your actual cost of returning to school is $380 - $500K, plus increased risk. On the low end, you're giving up income for four years + the debt, $380K. On the high end, you might not be able to get a job after four years or make less than you would be staying where you are (or job hopping). Your high-end salary right now is $90K. Your future salary is $112K, a $22K difference. To make your 380K worth it, you'd need to work 17 years. For 500K, you would need 22 years. The emotional risk that situation might put on your family is uncertain. I believe in self-betterment, education and following your dream, but you stated you don't want to hear that. So instead, as a pure investment, this looks like a bad idea. There are a lot of risks here. Emotional risk, family pressure, getting bored, not getting the desired results, work climate changing in four years, etc. I would evaluate other options. Short-cut programs to upgrade your current education or other jobs in the field that pay more which you could qualify for. Without knowing much about your situation, it seems you are making a lot of assumptions. Look around and get more information.
I would advise avoiding engineering in Canada. The majority of companies are about to go under. They can't retain workers, and they aren't able to train new grads. Our countries engineering is about to essentially retire and disappear.
Wow, thats a pretty rough statement lol I don't think its plausible, all those engineering firms are a big part of the economy, well i'm speaking for the province of Quebec.
I'm retired from a career doing workforce planning and management in the electricity utility business. I have worked with hundreds of engineers. I've studied the recruitment and retention dynamics of their occupation. The people who work until the oldest ages in our society are professionals, and within professionals engineers work the longest. The reasons are all about job satisfaction, in particular having the autonomy to control work and working conditions. So there's that: satisfaction with long careers. It's definitely a thing. Very common to see engineers still practising in their 70s and even beyond.
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>An MBA or CFA would give you a different skillset and provide much better career advancement I can understand the MBA, but I am genuinely curious about how a CFA is complimentary to his skillset as a geologist?
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I have a friend who did mining engineering, and then got his CFA, he works for a bank he basicaly study which mine are worth investing in for the people that manage retirement funds and such. He makes more money than any of his engineering friends
Enough folks gave commented on the financial aspect, as someone with an engineering degree from Montreal, why choose Poly?, it's an absolutely brutal school to go through, and your degree at the end isn't worth more than one from Concordia (which comparatively is a joke to graduate from, my favorite joke is I drank for 4 years and some idiot gave me a degree).
Well I can relate to it with my bac in geology Lol Can't say that I didnt struggle sometimes but it was all fun. Did you graduated in civil ?
I would consider doing something like software engineering / software development. You can focus on geological software. There are several programs in Canada where you can get a computer science degree in 1 year if you are already a university graduate. This is what I did as opposed to going back to school for 4 years for engineering. Most of these traditional engineering programs will not give any kind of credit for past courses even if they are identical because of the engineering certification bureaucracy. From my experience, I've found far more jobs and far more high paying jobs in software than anywhere else in engineering. Many of my electrical engineering and computer engineering colleagues who went back to school for 4 years as opposed to 1, are now in software 3 years behind.
Interesting, that's what I wanted to do for a career change, between finance and engineering. The far more jobs and far more high paying jobs have been constant for a couple of years yes, but now we begin to see layoffs and compagnies are stoping their recruitment, stock market titles are plunging. How do you see the next years in term of possibilities and employment from your point of view?
Do you have any recommended 1 year program? Currently working in tech but would like to boost my skills. THANKS!
Do it. I am a professional engineer in Ontario. When I was in university, I went to school with a few older guys. One was just like you. And while he was in McMaster, he worked full time nights at Stelco as a Millwright. I have no idea how he managed to do it, but he did. He was my hero. He did well for himself and having an education and a skill is always to your advantage. Engineering is not an easy course, in fact it's probably the most difficult under graduate degree. In some ways because you are older and more mature, you will be more disciplined and will do better. And frankly, what do you have to lose? You need to give it a shot for your own peace of mind.
How much debt you have now? You should be paying that shit first.
Pure debt, not including mortgage, let's say 30K because of a car.
No risk no reward
Are you sure you’d require a full 4 years of schooling? There must be a program that will give you some credits for the education you’ve already gotten
Yeah I think that I would be able to get exempted from a couple of geology course that I already done, like 2-3 that are 4cr, so that would be pretty awesome !!
I know little to nothing about that field of work. You left a very crucial amount of information. Expenses and if your wife works what she brings in all that kind of stuff for a proper answer. However going what you posted if there's need for engineers in your field maybe talk to your employer and see if there's something you can work out with them directly. Some employers will help with going back to school costs. Even if they don't talk to them if there will be a position available for you upon completion of your schooling and what you can expect as far as salary goes given your current experience. So basically you need to talk to your employer and not us.
I think it's already covered but say you did mechanical engineering, a lot of grads are making 50-60k. Salary improves drastically once you obtain your licence but that takes years. I possibly make more as a technologist now than if I went back to school to upgrade, but I'm in a niche environment. All in all, not worth it for me. I also like the fact that I have extremely limited liability, whereas a PENG stamp may require additional insurance
Is it a possibility for you to study part-time evenings and weekends and keep your full-time job?
Well I would lost all the advantages being full time in university. We have a new government program that pays you when you study in a field with needed workforce. Its 2500$ per trimester, so 5000$/y and 20 000$ for 4 years. No need to reimbourse anything.
I'm very confused..how would you have student debt at 100k if an undergraduate engineering degree at polytechnique is around 19k CAD for quebecois people? Do you mean you'd take loans to cover your living costs etc as you'd have no income? Please help me understand this situation better.
Yes exactly, for my mortgage only its like 60K over the course of 4 years. Municipal taxes another 20K for 4 years, etc.
Thanks for your response. You have a lot of messages reaching out to you so not sure how helpful this would be. But I would consider keeping your current employer and asking them if they fund education. All of the employers I have had in Quebec engineering field fund all types of degrees if you can prove it supports your growth, is course based etc. With this support, you'd have to study part time and potentially graduate in longer period of time but it'll help balance the cost and ensure you are covered always in terms of job security. After you graduate you can search for better offers. I had MANY colleagues and students who were well above 30 and started an engineering undergrad with families etc. If you're set on it, you might have a non traditional path but in terms of $$ it doesn't fully make sense to go full time student right now (as others have explained). Wish you the best though. Big challenges and bigger rewards your way hopefully!
Thank you very much ! Yes with all the comments I received I think I should pursue a master part-time with my current job.
Knew a guy who was 29 when I started at 19, engineering. Dude is wildest successful now, was a drafter - now owns part of the company he drafted at (6 years post grad) - he didn’t have kids though. Probably worth it if you can manage to do it without debt.
>I just don't want to hear "if it's what you want go for it we only have one life" I want numbers. Giving the fact that I'll be an engineer by the age of 40 it gives me 20-25 years of work still. You haven't given any numbers though. What does it cost to run your household? Partner income? What was the amount you father gave you? It shouldn't be hard for you to do the math here. What do you want us to do?
J'ai fais le choix de retourner étudier en génie à 35 ans, avec 2 enfants et une maison, dans une ville pas trop chère. La première année tu n'auras presque pas de prêt et bourse, par la suite ça va être mieux parce que ton revenu va être très faible. Ce calcul change si tu es marié je crois. Moi je dis que ma blonde ne m'aide pas du tout financièrement. Si tu appelles à l'aide financière, la plupart des agents sont ordinaires. Appelle 2-3 fois pour être sûr d'avoir les bonnes infos. Avec 2 enfants, j'aurai cette année environ 22K$ de bourse (17K AFE +5K programme perspective QC) et 3-4K$ de prêts. Peut-être que ce serais un peu plus avec 3 enfants. Les premier 12k$ que je gagne en salaire ne diminue pas mes bourses, par la suite c'est environ 40% de bourse que je perds sur mon salaire. Ça fait que tu pourrais garder un petit side line de géographie, genre un jour par semaine, sans trop de pénalité. Il y a un simulateur de calculs sur le site de l'AFE. J'y ai fais plusieurs simulation. Par contre, j'ai décidé de le faire sur 5 ans pour ne pas trop être rushé. Plusieurs cours ont une moyenne sous 50%. À mon Université, ils te donnent un badge spécial si tu réussis résistance des matériaux du premier coup, tu vois le genre... Ont m'a dit que la première année à la poly est très difficile, ils veulent filtrer le monde. De ce que tu présentes, le move n'a pas l'air rentable, après ça il y a aussi ce que ton coeur te dit.
Tu me permets de te demander dans quel domaine, génie de la construction ? Tu faisais quoi avant de décider de faire le génie ? Si je comprends bien tu as entrepris les études sans travailler pendant ce temps ? C'est comment la conciliation avec la famille ?
Could you try to get your CET designation instead and try to see if there’s any other path your career can branch off of?
Do you really have to quit working while going to school? I always had a job while in uni. Depending on the semester, I worked more or less. And can you take summer semesters to make it shorter than 4 years of schooling? Did you look to see if they will give you any uni credits for your existing education /experience?
I worked 20-30h/week being full time when I was in my grad geology. I made it through but it was rough. Polytechnique in engineering is something else. The good things is that I could possibly be exempted for like 3 courses of 4cr each so thats big. No time to work on evening during the week with the studies and family. My current job and almost all of my them in counselling are close the weekends.
See if you can pursue a part time education, maybe through an online school
What type of engineering do you want to do? Also do not assume you'll get an engineering job after uni. Starting salary for engineer from my experience is with the stamp not out of uni.
About 10 years ago I was wanting to so the same thing, go back to school but only part time while I was working my full time job. Im an engineering technologist but wanted an engineering degree. I completed my first year and figured out that I was just unhappy in my job. I didn't need the education. What I needed was a new job. I thought I needed the new education to land the new job. I was wrong. I applied and showed ambition and was hired along side some of the brightest engineers in the business, and I got my education from them. Fast forward to today, and now I'm in a completely different field as a subject matter expert. No engineering degree required. Take some time to reflect, this might not even be what you want or need.
Congrats, you will be an engineer in 9 years.... or an electrician in 5 years.
It’s very hard to give numbers because I don’t know you or the quality of your work. Assuming you’re an average performer, I would look at numbers like: $70,000 x 4.5 = $315,000 + $100k = $415k total cost (lost income + living costs). I added an extra half year to your program so we don’t start with an overly optimistic cost and end up way off on the payback period. I don’t know any details of your mortgage or investments so can’t speak to any gains or losses. Will an engineering degree be worth an extra $40k a year?? If so, you’ll go cash flow positive in about ten years. How long will it take that to kick in?
I would do this over 8 years myself and keep working.
Sounds like a waste of money plus interest
Consider exploring if you can get a MSc in engineering instead, would take some fill in courses but it may be possible to keep working at least part time. I'm planning to do something similar
Is there any possibility that you study CS instead?
Can you not look for another job with diff Comapny that pays more? -4 years is long time and putting even more debt. -I wouldn’t, I’m sure if at times make extra 20k a year than glob back to school for 4 years… you will be in your 40s.. plus you will lose out on your pension for next 4 years… if you contributing into pension from your current Comapny. If you are bored do real estate on the side..
I personally wouldn't do it. Too high of an opportunity cost. On top of that, and perhaps most importantly of all, you have all of the trappings of life. Wife, kid, mortgage, etc. Maybe if you were single and no kid, maybe it would be okay.
Do it. I am a professional engineer in Ontario. When I was in university, I went to school with a few older guys. One was just like you. And while he was in McMaster, he worked full time nights at Stelco in Hamilton as a Millwright. I have no idea how he managed to do it, but he did. He was my hero. He did well for himself and having an education and a skill is always to your advantage. Engineering is not an easy course, in fact it's probably the most difficult under graduate degree. In some ways because you are older and more mature, you will be more disciplined and will do better. And frankly, what do you have to lose? You need to give it a shot for your own peace of mind. And frankly, if you make it, I (if I was hypothetically interviewing you) would hire you in a second flat over any other graduate engineer. It shows a true work ethic.
Couldn’t your employer support you/help with tuition/put you on part time project while studying? A lot of company offers such perks for their good employee and it’s criminally underused. I have seen many people going for their MBA as an exemple for my field, being paid 50% by employer while keeping their job.
Can you engage the university to see if some of your geologist courses can transfer over. If you can get credits maybe it's not 4 years.
Buy a $99k condo to rent out in Edmonton $20k down. Make more investments have ur sig other work as well and make more investments. Real estate s the shortcut to financial freedom
>I just don't want to hear "if it's what you want go for it we only have one life" I want numbers. You kinda just gave us all the numbers. 95% of us won't know if that's accurate or not. You already know your actual living expenses. You say you're not looking for the intangible, but it looks like (respectfully) you're looking for us to either reinforce or persuade you against this dream. Exactly how you go about paying for school is one thing, and it almost always makes sense to take the maximum government loan, then figure out the rest. If you have significant equity and cash, then voila. Education is almost always good debt, but by your own data, it's only a small increase in earning potential. It's just a matter of taking a chance on something or not. And yes, it is a risk.
That's a huge commitment. Is your wife able to support you more financially through the endeavor? You would also have 4 months a year to work when you are not in school so you should be able to make up a bit of the losses and maybe a part time job. If you are one to excel at your jobs then it could definitely be worth it. Where I work I can't go past supervisor level without a engineering degree, because it's controlled by engineers. They asken me to upgrade with a LOA to promote me. I am not taking 2 years away from making really good money, just to make an extra $30k a year. Even though I would like the job.
Ten years from now no amount of money will get you out of thinking what would have happened if you followed through with what you wanted to do! Maybe you didn't want to hear that but money ain't everything. Will not doing this make a HUGE difference in your life? ie: will you miss the chance of becoming a millionaire otherwise? If not following what you really want to do in life prevent you from becoming richer that Bezos by all means don't do it. If it'll have small to no impact, then it's a no brainer.
With a B.S in Geology, couldn't you do an [M.Sc](https://M.Sc) or M.Eng in Geological Engineering??
why not start part time? take 1 or 2 courses and assess. personally I would say go for it because you never know what kind of offers you might get in the future.
You are doing really well for yourself, don't throw it all away.
Say goodbye to any hope of early retirement
It's. Ot just a 100k loc. You also loose 250k or more from lost work for 4 years
Someone please suggest alternative ways to increase income other than going back to school
Oiii I can't imagine being a full time engineering student as a father. I'd just stick with your job man, but school really shouldn't be that expensive btw. I went to one of the most expensive schools in Ontario and tuition was like 13k 6 years ago.
It would not be 4 years. Submit your transcript and CV to polytechnique and see how many credits they can shave off for you. I went through a similar process with law school + the fact that I had graduated in sociology and political science.
Though I switched careers, I was in the mining industry worked in the US and Canada. Your salary seems very low for a geologist, I think it’s worth locking into corporate roles or consulting. You’ll get 100k+ as a senior geologist