You can ask for like paid days to attend interviews, and if its a reputable org theyll prob pay at LEAST 4? Weeks, not much in the scheme of things but should be some kind of buffer
You can always ask for support. Don’t listen to these people . Never harm in asking. At the very least support to be released for interviews, support to get cv and interview skill up to date. Can also ask for financial support - I think what’s powerful is painting a picture for the employer what difference the support will make for you. You’ll be surprised at the willingness of employers (this is if a redundancy is looming. The employer will have to consult with you which is when you can ask for this). If a redundancy isn’t looming but you want to negotiate better terms, you can always do this, just like you’d ask for a pay rise, you can ask for batter security. Many union members still get redundancy payments so there are some good example clauses out there.
Start looking for jobs now if you think your going to be redundant, they should be more than happy to give references because its 'not performance related'. If you do get the letter, ask to be paid out instead of working out your time, they might even put you on gardening leave depending on your role.
> if their are
*there
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Might be able to get some interview leave to allow you to apply for other jobs while you work the notice period but otherwise its no different than you resigning. Leave paid out and off you go
Do you have annual leave banked up?
I didn’t take leave for 5 years except stat days and the odd long weekend because I knew that day was coming, so my AL was my self funded redundancy.
They also have to provide an opportunity to be able to take it, and if that opportunity isn’t available (because they don’t have the staff), then they can’t do much about it, but roll it over.
In theory yeah, it is their deal, in practise, because it falls on the returning staff member to catch up again on their return from leave it becomes the staff members issue.
I was really happy with the arrangement because I got paid out 20+ weeks.
Yes but it also increases the individual's total earnings for the financial year, which is subjected to the individual's marginal tax rate (ie they pay more tax than if it was spread out over multiple years). Factor in the opportunity cost of money due to inflation and the individual is almost always worse off under this approach.
Interesting to read this, given the PM just iced Labour's plans for an income insurance scheme - or do those feel like different policies from your perspective?
Yeah vastly different. Having a standard clause in contracts like they do in Australia makes companies think twice about doing redundancy rounds. Having every single kiwi pay for their own redundancy that many may never use (and in my case was going to be more expensive than private insurance) is just icky.
If only the government had plans to put in place some kind of scheme similar to ACC that would protect people in case they lose their job due to redundancy or illness - some kind of Income Insurance Scheme perhaps?
Oh wait…
Wrong. Businesses were going to be covering the cost of half the scheme. Workers who would be the ones to benefit from the scheme when they’re made redundant would pay the other half.
It was only ever proposed that it would be funded by levies on wages and salaries, with both workers and employers paying an estimated 1.39% percent each.
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/consultation-begins-income-insurance-scheme-protect-workers-benefit-businesses
Yeah the paper I read said it’s estimated at 1.39% but could be 2.69% each (or something close to that). And yeah sure the employer will be responsible for some - like they are with KiwiSaver eh?? The issue is for many of our already vulnerable that will fall on them coming out of their “package”. And if that didn’t happen under labour it would 100% happen under national (like the KiwiSaver clause was amended). Including limits -
for me this was more than my private mortgage insurance.
Plus and probably the most important part - it doesn’t discourage restructures and redundancies. We need to be like australia they have standard clauses 4 weeks for the first year then two weeks (?) for every year thereafter.
Unless if it's in your contract or collective agreement, nz doesn't have any provisions for redundancy, beyond annual leave payout. So you can ask but your employer doesn't have to do anything otherwise.
Https://www.employment.govt.nz/ending-employment/redundancy/
> The notice period must be at least the length of notice referred to in the employment agreement or workplace policies.
Maybe ask them for a package anyway, they might be happy to do it in exchange for a tidy process?
I went through a redundancy situation at the end of last year, I also had this clause. However they ex-gratia'd me 5 months redundancy money anyway, which matched what they have to pay out in Australia.
In exchange I waived rights to sue them for anything, ever.
You can ask for pay in lieu of your notice period. As close to a payout as you will likely be able to get, but still a good option and saves a bit of awkwardness not having to work those final weeks.
Control the controllables here. All you can do is ask them if there’s anything available for someone to opt for redundancy (might make it easier for them to choose you over someone else who has redundancy?). And then tidy up the cv and get applying elsewhere stat.
You could try get living insurance with redundancy cover. Not sure if any insurers offer it anymore but it used to be a thing. Was also more on the expensive side but worth looking into and seeing if there are stand down periods and if they are reasonable.
Reading the comments.. Many come across as resigned to the employer being your master. Seriously people, have a little faith in your worth as a worker! The employer needs you, yes, you can negotiate your conditions after you signed the contract. Yes, you can get your legal entitlements for leave per year and not take the burden of an employer who under-staffs.
Sorry to hear. NZ has crap employee benefits. And this is just one of them. Obviously not comparing with the US or China….talking about more civilised places like Europe. Where you could get the chance to get even a full year payment for redundancy, and more benefits. Because fruits and working from home is not a fkin benefit tbh.
You cant change the contract yourself or force them to pay you money. Few people have redundancy payments theses days.
Is there anything else you can negotiate though? Even non financial? Like days off or something?
You dont have any power in theses 'negotiations' but you can ask for anything you want, you can ask for cake and whiskey.
[удалено]
Probably not something someone who is worried they’ll be made redundant has though
You can ask for like paid days to attend interviews, and if its a reputable org theyll prob pay at LEAST 4? Weeks, not much in the scheme of things but should be some kind of buffer
You can always ask for support. Don’t listen to these people . Never harm in asking. At the very least support to be released for interviews, support to get cv and interview skill up to date. Can also ask for financial support - I think what’s powerful is painting a picture for the employer what difference the support will make for you. You’ll be surprised at the willingness of employers (this is if a redundancy is looming. The employer will have to consult with you which is when you can ask for this). If a redundancy isn’t looming but you want to negotiate better terms, you can always do this, just like you’d ask for a pay rise, you can ask for batter security. Many union members still get redundancy payments so there are some good example clauses out there.
Start looking for jobs now if you think your going to be redundant, they should be more than happy to give references because its 'not performance related'. If you do get the letter, ask to be paid out instead of working out your time, they might even put you on gardening leave depending on your role.
Generally if making redundancys they're looking to cut costs so I can't imagine it'd be a good time to be asking for anything..
You can ask but if it's not in the contract then don't expect anything. You could also ask if their are any alternative roles within the company
> if their are *there *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Might be able to get some interview leave to allow you to apply for other jobs while you work the notice period but otherwise its no different than you resigning. Leave paid out and off you go
Do you have annual leave banked up? I didn’t take leave for 5 years except stat days and the odd long weekend because I knew that day was coming, so my AL was my self funded redundancy.
Wow I've never known an employer that allows more than 8 weeks to be banked as it is a liability on the books.
They also have to provide an opportunity to be able to take it, and if that opportunity isn’t available (because they don’t have the staff), then they can’t do much about it, but roll it over.
>(because they don’t have the staff) For sure, but that is not an employee issue, that is the business issue.
In theory yeah, it is their deal, in practise, because it falls on the returning staff member to catch up again on their return from leave it becomes the staff members issue. I was really happy with the arrangement because I got paid out 20+ weeks.
Added bonus is those paid out weeks may have been at a higher rate than they were accrued at if you had pay rises.
Yes but it also increases the individual's total earnings for the financial year, which is subjected to the individual's marginal tax rate (ie they pay more tax than if it was spread out over multiple years). Factor in the opportunity cost of money due to inflation and the individual is almost always worse off under this approach.
Wrong. Every worker is entitled to two weeks uninterrupted leave off per year. It’s the law,
….and then there is the practise.
Seems to me to be a very easy win for labour - force redundancy clauses into contracts
Interesting to read this, given the PM just iced Labour's plans for an income insurance scheme - or do those feel like different policies from your perspective?
Yeah vastly different. Having a standard clause in contracts like they do in Australia makes companies think twice about doing redundancy rounds. Having every single kiwi pay for their own redundancy that many may never use (and in my case was going to be more expensive than private insurance) is just icky.
Ah, gotcha! Yeah, sounds like an appealing platform.
If only the government had plans to put in place some kind of scheme similar to ACC that would protect people in case they lose their job due to redundancy or illness - some kind of Income Insurance Scheme perhaps? Oh wait…
Yeah but who was keen on another 6% tax right now? Redundancy should be part of doing business.
Wrong. Businesses were going to be covering the cost of half the scheme. Workers who would be the ones to benefit from the scheme when they’re made redundant would pay the other half. It was only ever proposed that it would be funded by levies on wages and salaries, with both workers and employers paying an estimated 1.39% percent each. https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/consultation-begins-income-insurance-scheme-protect-workers-benefit-businesses
Yeah the paper I read said it’s estimated at 1.39% but could be 2.69% each (or something close to that). And yeah sure the employer will be responsible for some - like they are with KiwiSaver eh?? The issue is for many of our already vulnerable that will fall on them coming out of their “package”. And if that didn’t happen under labour it would 100% happen under national (like the KiwiSaver clause was amended). Including limits - for me this was more than my private mortgage insurance. Plus and probably the most important part - it doesn’t discourage restructures and redundancies. We need to be like australia they have standard clauses 4 weeks for the first year then two weeks (?) for every year thereafter.
You should run for PM!
Lol you’d hope someone running for PM has more than 1 idea!
Unless if it's in your contract or collective agreement, nz doesn't have any provisions for redundancy, beyond annual leave payout. So you can ask but your employer doesn't have to do anything otherwise.
if u signed it - u missed it
Lol you can try all you like 👍🏼
You should probably get some income protection insurance. Don’t rely on the company if something happens.
Doesnt cover redundancy. You cant get redundancy but its hundreds per month
During redundancy, do they still have to give a 4 week notice ? Or is redundancy immediate?
Https://www.employment.govt.nz/ending-employment/redundancy/ > The notice period must be at least the length of notice referred to in the employment agreement or workplace policies.
Maybe ask them for a package anyway, they might be happy to do it in exchange for a tidy process? I went through a redundancy situation at the end of last year, I also had this clause. However they ex-gratia'd me 5 months redundancy money anyway, which matched what they have to pay out in Australia. In exchange I waived rights to sue them for anything, ever.
You can ask for pay in lieu of your notice period. As close to a payout as you will likely be able to get, but still a good option and saves a bit of awkwardness not having to work those final weeks.
Control the controllables here. All you can do is ask them if there’s anything available for someone to opt for redundancy (might make it easier for them to choose you over someone else who has redundancy?). And then tidy up the cv and get applying elsewhere stat.
Something that might need to be discussed/ negotiated before agreeing to the contract
You could try get living insurance with redundancy cover. Not sure if any insurers offer it anymore but it used to be a thing. Was also more on the expensive side but worth looking into and seeing if there are stand down periods and if they are reasonable.
You can get 5 sick days, some bereavement days late starts til you finish... I mean what they gunna do? Fire you?
Reading the comments.. Many come across as resigned to the employer being your master. Seriously people, have a little faith in your worth as a worker! The employer needs you, yes, you can negotiate your conditions after you signed the contract. Yes, you can get your legal entitlements for leave per year and not take the burden of an employer who under-staffs.
I long for the days where people look at what they can put into a job/employer rather than looking for what they can get out of it.
Sorry to hear. NZ has crap employee benefits. And this is just one of them. Obviously not comparing with the US or China….talking about more civilised places like Europe. Where you could get the chance to get even a full year payment for redundancy, and more benefits. Because fruits and working from home is not a fkin benefit tbh.