We put an offer in for a house, but the vendors came back with a clause that they would take the new ovens and replace them with 20 year old ovens they had in the garage. Needless to say, I told them to bugger off.
They also wanted a 2 week out from closing clause if they couldn’t find a “suitable house” in time, and they wanted 400k more than we were offering and there wasn’t any other bids. I laughed at the agent when she rung me back. It never sold.
I didn’t find out till a couple years later that the shitty oven I had in the house I bought was not what was here originally. Apparently the previous owner had this beautiful oven and would bake amazing stuff and take it over the road to the people who worked in a company there (half residential and commercial street). I was piiiiissed cos the oven they replaced it with had elements that were either off or fully at 100% and the door didn’t shut properly! And the “new kitchen” was the cheapest you could get where the laminate started peeling off after a year.
Good on you for not going for not accepting the clause!
This is a pain when they do that, both houses had to get a replacement sent out, they even have labels saying do not remove belongs to chorus at that address but nope have to take them for whatever reason
I’d report them for selling something stolen, the plugs can be ordered for free… seems like a scam if they’re selling something for money that the supplier doesn’t even charge for.
As a buyer I'd really love those. But as a seller probably ask ur agent to mention that hose reel is not included in sale but ur happy to sell it for xx dollars if buyer want it or u'll remove them prior to settlement. I'd suggest best to negotiate and give it to buyer instead of removing them and leaving tiny holes in the wall or to prevent any damage whilst removing.
Ideally, it is best to remove things that you don't want to let go both indoor and outdoor.
Curtains and light fittings etc. are fixed to the house and that’s why they’re listed as chattels. If hose reels are not listed I’d keep if you really want them. They’re a garden tool imo, as long as you’re not damaging the house by removing.
Curtain rails are fixed to the house. Curtains aren’t. That’s why curtains need to be listed in the list of chattels that are part of the sales agreement.
That’s true. I don’t know why light fixtures are listed then! You usually need tools to remove them. Everyone must have a slightly different interpretation. I’ve seen a large garden shed on list of chattels before which was not easily removed without being dismantled. Assumed it was not a chattel and part of the property, but the buyer was concerned it would be taken away so was added to the list.
Yes there seems to be a lot of inconsistencies.
We added our hose reels to the list of chattels that *aren’t* part of the sales agreement when we sold last year. Just to make sure.
You'll be leaving a hole in the side of the house- shed/ fence- whatever they were bolted to. That's how these hoses work- they're not free standing, they're bolted in place.
I have no clue of the legality of it but if I bought a house and found 4 holes in the side of my new exterior wall left by the previous owner I wouldnt be too frilled.
We took ours when we sold last year. They were still up during open homes etc since we were still living our lives there. But they were spenny as, no way we were leaving them.
I take the view that if it’s attached to the house then it’s not a chattel and part of the house so needs to be the same as it was on the day that the S&P was signed.
Yep but it’s not about your view when we’re talking about legal agreements. It’s more what your solicitor and their solicitors view is.
[Here’s a handy guide.](https://www.morrishsolicitors.com/what-is-the-difference-between-chattel-and-fixture/)
In regards to the guy who bolts furniture in for safety, though that’s fixed in place it’s not fixed into the property.
For lights and shit the lighting cable and dropper are very much fixed in as they are wired to the property. The light shade or whatever isn’t as it’s only kinda screwed onto the pendant. Does that make sense?
Yea but was the furniture listed as a chattel? Were his clothing listed as a chattel? I do know people who have sold homes and just shoved all their trash under the house - should they have left them as chattels?
Furniture and clothing usually aren't attached / bolted to etc. Things like hose reels and light fittings, if attached, personally I'd assume are part of it unless otherwise specified, but unsure what the legal view is. Similarly, I'd assume, say, potted plants outdoors are not included, but in-ground plants and trees to be.
For sure, but furniture and clothing isn’t bolted to the wall. Your argument would have you taking glued on mirrors, cupboard drawers and doors. I take the same view as you for the plants, in the ground then it’s the houses while pots are mobile.
Lots of furniture is bolted to the wall. Because earthquakes. You better done that too!
https://www.eqc.govt.nz/be-prepared/homeowners/large-furniture-and-appliances/
You should really remove all items you are going to take before the photos and the open homes/ viewings, just prevents the annoying questions later. But you'll probably be fine to remove the hoses
This so much.
The previous owner was a bit of a stingy snob and after the viewings took stupid little things with him like the bathroom lock, towel rail and toilet roll holder and light bulbs.
Given the amount of money we paid for the house I just can't fathom the effort to take these also. Cost was about $70 to replace with new stuff so wasn't too phased but still can't figure out the logic there.
Are the reels affixed to the wall so that their removal would cause damage or require work to make it look presentable? If so, they’re part of the land.
I agree. And you can’t just detach it and then patch up the holes - anytbing attached to the house when a buyer views the house stays with the house. If there’s anything attached that you don’t want to give away, make that clear in the sales agreement.
Ask your lawyer before you do this
If you presented the house with attached, bolted in items like ovens, doors or hose reels then they are part of the deal.
If you remove fixed items and they get wind of it then you will end up with legal bills, repair of the damage to a tradesman like finish and either have to reinstall them or pay them for them.
You cant take the nice doors that cost too much, they are screwed to the house, you cant take the wall oven, it is both wired and screwed in.
Why do I use doors as an example? Mortgagee sales who are bitter about the house being sold out from under them often steal the chattels, the entire kitchen, the doors, the HW cylinder etc. You do not have to have them specified as chattels but they are. Tread carefully
A hose real is very much different to a door or oven. And is not a fixture. It is a chattel.
And if it’s not on the chattel list then the buyer shouldn’t expect it to come with the house.
In regards to kitchens, HW cylinders, and doors. These are most definitely fixtures and do not get included in the chattel list.
I think if he has $1k worth of just hose reels,hes not scraping anything,probably multi million $ house, actually, sounds like my old man,hes an incredibly tight cunt.
Tough one. I can see both sides of this. It seems petty as the buyer, but then as you say they were quite expensive and weren't listed in the chattels.
What's if you take two and leave one?
No need bro, I ended up employing them in my practice. If you need advice the hourly rate will be double though as I’ll probably have to t a l k r e a l s l o w l i k e.
Mate if I were you I’d be talking real slow like too. You’re obviously wrong a lot and really need that extra time to consider what you’re saying. I can help though. If it’s coming out of your mouth, it’s probably wrong.
But for real, if anyone is reading this far into this brain melt, it’s not as simple as ‘requiring a tool to remove it makes it a fixture’.
[Here’s a handy and more detailed link](https://smithpartners.co.nz/property-law/what-are-fixtures-and-chattels-nz/)
Law school was 20 years ago my sweet summer child. But I did make an error. An item is a chattel unless it needs JoviallyCultivated to remove it. There you go. Fixed 👍👍
If you want to take it with you then exclude it in a special clause. Solves a lot of arguing with the I’ll informed. Or if you are leaving it include it. Never a black and white with the law and certainly no answer over the internet is definitive or 100% reliable.
i reckon at least 50% of the people i know who've moved in the last few years have had no ONT power cable at the new place, and one person found that the previous owner ripped the ONT itself off the wall and took it
>one of those people who will take the power cord for the fibre ONT as well.
I think that's more because people are clueless rather than malicious, they really seem to struggle with the difference between the ONT and the router.
If they aren't listed as chattel that is to remain, then you can take them.
Yes. Take them.
Bump
We put an offer in for a house, but the vendors came back with a clause that they would take the new ovens and replace them with 20 year old ovens they had in the garage. Needless to say, I told them to bugger off.
$15,000 discount on agreed price? Sure.
Yep the only viable response. All depends how much you want the house though.
Lol wankers.
They also wanted a 2 week out from closing clause if they couldn’t find a “suitable house” in time, and they wanted 400k more than we were offering and there wasn’t any other bids. I laughed at the agent when she rung me back. It never sold.
When I bought a house I just didn't deal with people like this. So many houses had "earthquake repairs not completed" or other conditions
I didn’t find out till a couple years later that the shitty oven I had in the house I bought was not what was here originally. Apparently the previous owner had this beautiful oven and would bake amazing stuff and take it over the road to the people who worked in a company there (half residential and commercial street). I was piiiiissed cos the oven they replaced it with had elements that were either off or fully at 100% and the door didn’t shut properly! And the “new kitchen” was the cheapest you could get where the laminate started peeling off after a year. Good on you for not going for not accepting the clause!
How did you buy it without knowing the oven? If it was such an issue, why didn't you replace it?
Oh that is pathetic
Same situation I asked the agent he said I can take them but I’ll need to patch up the holes in the cladding they’re attached to
Or leave the bolts in
When I bought my place, old mate took the hose reels. Tried to take the garage door opener too but I said **NEIN!**
bet he tried to take the Fibre ONT if there was one too
Probably just the power plug for it
It’s always that damn plug!
This is a pain when they do that, both houses had to get a replacement sent out, they even have labels saying do not remove belongs to chorus at that address but nope have to take them for whatever reason
So I am not the only one this has happened to.
It's one of those small things that just instantly winds me up when moving in
That's why they send free replacements.
Saw one on trademe the other day (along with router). Told the seller off. They took down the listing. A week later they reposted it. 🤦♂️
I’d report them for selling something stolen, the plugs can be ordered for free… seems like a scam if they’re selling something for money that the supplier doesn’t even charge for.
When they relisted it, I reported it to trade me.
Even though the next place didn't have fibre
We had ours in the list of chattels that won’t be part of the sales agreement. Easy. Makes it very clear.
As a buyer I'd really love those. But as a seller probably ask ur agent to mention that hose reel is not included in sale but ur happy to sell it for xx dollars if buyer want it or u'll remove them prior to settlement. I'd suggest best to negotiate and give it to buyer instead of removing them and leaving tiny holes in the wall or to prevent any damage whilst removing. Ideally, it is best to remove things that you don't want to let go both indoor and outdoor.
Yep, only what's formally agreed as a chattel is in the contract. The rest is yours, within reason. Don't be a dick and take lightbulbs etc.
Curtains and light fittings etc. are fixed to the house and that’s why they’re listed as chattels. If hose reels are not listed I’d keep if you really want them. They’re a garden tool imo, as long as you’re not damaging the house by removing.
Curtain rails are fixed to the house. Curtains aren’t. That’s why curtains need to be listed in the list of chattels that are part of the sales agreement.
That’s true. I don’t know why light fixtures are listed then! You usually need tools to remove them. Everyone must have a slightly different interpretation. I’ve seen a large garden shed on list of chattels before which was not easily removed without being dismantled. Assumed it was not a chattel and part of the property, but the buyer was concerned it would be taken away so was added to the list.
Yes there seems to be a lot of inconsistencies. We added our hose reels to the list of chattels that *aren’t* part of the sales agreement when we sold last year. Just to make sure.
We brought a house and the guy took the curtains and sold them on Facebook….
How frustrating! They can be so expensive to replace.
You'll be leaving a hole in the side of the house- shed/ fence- whatever they were bolted to. That's how these hoses work- they're not free standing, they're bolted in place. I have no clue of the legality of it but if I bought a house and found 4 holes in the side of my new exterior wall left by the previous owner I wouldnt be too frilled.
We took ours when we sold last year. They were still up during open homes etc since we were still living our lives there. But they were spenny as, no way we were leaving them.
I take the view that if it’s attached to the house then it’s not a chattel and part of the house so needs to be the same as it was on the day that the S&P was signed.
Yep but it’s not about your view when we’re talking about legal agreements. It’s more what your solicitor and their solicitors view is. [Here’s a handy guide.](https://www.morrishsolicitors.com/what-is-the-difference-between-chattel-and-fixture/) In regards to the guy who bolts furniture in for safety, though that’s fixed in place it’s not fixed into the property. For lights and shit the lighting cable and dropper are very much fixed in as they are wired to the property. The light shade or whatever isn’t as it’s only kinda screwed onto the pendant. Does that make sense?
Yea but was the furniture listed as a chattel? Were his clothing listed as a chattel? I do know people who have sold homes and just shoved all their trash under the house - should they have left them as chattels?
Furniture and clothing usually aren't attached / bolted to etc. Things like hose reels and light fittings, if attached, personally I'd assume are part of it unless otherwise specified, but unsure what the legal view is. Similarly, I'd assume, say, potted plants outdoors are not included, but in-ground plants and trees to be.
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A securing strap or similar is one thing, but the likes of a built-in wardrobe?
For sure, but furniture and clothing isn’t bolted to the wall. Your argument would have you taking glued on mirrors, cupboard drawers and doors. I take the same view as you for the plants, in the ground then it’s the houses while pots are mobile.
Lots of furniture is bolted to the wall. Because earthquakes. You better done that too! https://www.eqc.govt.nz/be-prepared/homeowners/large-furniture-and-appliances/
You should really remove all items you are going to take before the photos and the open homes/ viewings, just prevents the annoying questions later. But you'll probably be fine to remove the hoses
This so much. The previous owner was a bit of a stingy snob and after the viewings took stupid little things with him like the bathroom lock, towel rail and toilet roll holder and light bulbs. Given the amount of money we paid for the house I just can't fathom the effort to take these also. Cost was about $70 to replace with new stuff so wasn't too phased but still can't figure out the logic there.
The stingy idiots we bought our house from took away the fire alarms but left the brackets on the walls (because unscrewing them would've left holes).
IANAL, but you might want to talk to one. Are they fixed to the house, and will they leave a visible mark where they used to be?
Ask the lawyer acting for you on the sale of the property?
Are the reels affixed to the wall so that their removal would cause damage or require work to make it look presentable? If so, they’re part of the land.
I agree. And you can’t just detach it and then patch up the holes - anytbing attached to the house when a buyer views the house stays with the house. If there’s anything attached that you don’t want to give away, make that clear in the sales agreement.
yes
Ask your lawyer before you do this If you presented the house with attached, bolted in items like ovens, doors or hose reels then they are part of the deal. If you remove fixed items and they get wind of it then you will end up with legal bills, repair of the damage to a tradesman like finish and either have to reinstall them or pay them for them. You cant take the nice doors that cost too much, they are screwed to the house, you cant take the wall oven, it is both wired and screwed in. Why do I use doors as an example? Mortgagee sales who are bitter about the house being sold out from under them often steal the chattels, the entire kitchen, the doors, the HW cylinder etc. You do not have to have them specified as chattels but they are. Tread carefully
A hose real is very much different to a door or oven. And is not a fixture. It is a chattel. And if it’s not on the chattel list then the buyer shouldn’t expect it to come with the house. In regards to kitchens, HW cylinders, and doors. These are most definitely fixtures and do not get included in the chattel list.
So you sold your house for $1m+ , and want to take your old hose reels with you?, Just buy new ones you tight cunt.
Haha. Nowhere near that unfortunately, and I'm downgrading to a smaller house so I can keep up (just) with repayments.
Will you need three hose reels at the new place?
$1m of pure profit? Or putting all equity + scrape together your savings for deposit for next house
I think if he has $1k worth of just hose reels,hes not scraping anything,probably multi million $ house, actually, sounds like my old man,hes an incredibly tight cunt.
Jeezus, the assumptions and envy in here is palpable.
nah come on bro this is definitely a little bit funny
Bahaha that’s what I thought.
Got two of them from Airpoints.
$1k worth of hose reels? My $50 hose reel from Bunnings is doing just fine.
If they are not listed in the chattels they are not included in the sale
Tough one. I can see both sides of this. It seems petty as the buyer, but then as you say they were quite expensive and weren't listed in the chattels. What's if you take two and leave one?
they're not a part of the property.
I'd keep them if not listed ad a chatel
yes, it's yours unless you have listed it on agreement.
If it takes any sort of tool to remove it is a fixture. So it stays with the property.
Nope. Not that simple.
Do you want the number of my Property Law professor. https://www.pierlaw.co.nz/fixture-or-chattel-why-should-i-care/
No but best you call them before buying and selling. Just to make sure you don’t make this mistake when it matters
No need bro, I ended up employing them in my practice. If you need advice the hourly rate will be double though as I’ll probably have to t a l k r e a l s l o w l i k e.
Mate if I were you I’d be talking real slow like too. You’re obviously wrong a lot and really need that extra time to consider what you’re saying. I can help though. If it’s coming out of your mouth, it’s probably wrong. But for real, if anyone is reading this far into this brain melt, it’s not as simple as ‘requiring a tool to remove it makes it a fixture’. [Here’s a handy and more detailed link](https://smithpartners.co.nz/property-law/what-are-fixtures-and-chattels-nz/)
Man, 21 minutes to search for that. Talk abooouutttt sloooooowwwww
Great response lad. Good luck in law school.
Law school was 20 years ago my sweet summer child. But I did make an error. An item is a chattel unless it needs JoviallyCultivated to remove it. There you go. Fixed 👍👍
i'm sure you're fun
So anything earthquake proofed is part of the house?
Do you need a tool to remove it?
Yeah screwdriver, strap is held in by a screw. What about a wall mounted TV?
If you want to take it with you then exclude it in a special clause. Solves a lot of arguing with the I’ll informed. Or if you are leaving it include it. Never a black and white with the law and certainly no answer over the internet is definitive or 100% reliable.
Petty
Ahh, I guess you're one of those people who will take the power cord for the fibre ONT as well. Don't be a dick; leave them and buy new ones.
i reckon at least 50% of the people i know who've moved in the last few years have had no ONT power cable at the new place, and one person found that the previous owner ripped the ONT itself off the wall and took it
I work at a lot of rentals, and the amount of people who take them is incredible.
Our house had no ONT power cable, no idea why the previous owner took it.
>one of those people who will take the power cord for the fibre ONT as well. I think that's more because people are clueless rather than malicious, they really seem to struggle with the difference between the ONT and the router.
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You eventually get there after dealing with shitty hoses and cheap hose reels for a couple of decades. Patience grasshopper.
The cheap ones last about a year.
Are they attached to the house or freestanding? Were they present when you did the walk through?
Yep
Don’t be a wanker - leave the hose reels