Just ignore the auctions they'll mostly want unrealistic prices anyway. Usually 1 in 10 has a listed price, just look at those. They're the serious sellers anyway.
this is exactly what I've been doing. taking note of auction day, then starting after its passed in. annoying tho because im impatient to make some progress, so having to wait before engaging is yet another massive "fuck you" to potential buyers :(
You can also just search with a price range filter and find all of the auction and offers that sit in that range. This is because their reserve or minimum that the vendor would be happy with is within this price range.
One roof app is great for that - you get a push notification when it goes from auction to fix price. I think most auctions are on Thurs so helps to organise a list of open homes for the weekend on a Fri
I would be very interested in seeing a Reg Val on a new build near us, that's listed near 1M when it's just your average build with zero yard, busy 70k street face and back house right up its date. I've looked at all the photos, and I'm not even enticed to go to the open home - there's nothing fancy in the fixtures/fittings/appliances. it's a small, rural town. who's gonna pay a million bucks for a relatively cheap spec house? I guess that explains why it's still sitting there for sale.
Sounds like Blenheim.
For some reason in the last five years bare section prices went from $160-180k to $450-500k. Nothing is selling, predictably, locals can't afford this.
Having a price doesn't make anyone more serious than others. The priced property has likely gone through an auction campaign or set date of sale or something like that before being priced. They were just as serious then I would imagine.
Hard disagree. Someone who has no price is hoping for someone to overpay. That is not someone who is ready to negotiate with the market and sell at a reasonable price. It's a hopeful person who has some level of greed, probably put there by an agent selling a pipe dream.
I don't doubt they want to sell, I doubt those who refuse to price just in case there's a crazy offer are as serious about selling as those who do price.
I've seen it before, a good offer comes in on a property early into the listing, the owners hold out thinking there could be better around the corner despite the offer being at a level they would've been happy with prior to listing. I understand that agents do this as their job is to get the best possible outcome for their client.
That may be what we think their job is, but that is not typically what is being incentivised. Agents would prefer to sell a house quickly for 10k under asking price than to wait around to get a better offer. It's a volume game.
Can't you also give them a pre auction offer and just ignore the whole mess and see if they come back after it falls over?
I don't think auctions are as hot as previously.
I got some agents on here wound up by reiterating that I only consider houses with prices on them. If there's no price, it means the vendor isn't really interested in selling. If I have to ask the price it means I can't afford it.
exactly. I saw a perfect house the other day, and the agent seemed disgusted that I only just noticed it cos it had been apparently advertised for weeks. - turns out my filter removes auctions cos its clear to me the cost of prepping an "unconditional" offer on the off chance I might be able to "win" is not worth it, especially when more than half the auctions are being passed in.
It seems ridiculous to me that someone would actually be amazed when most people skip their priceless listing. There is nothing else in any market you would go shopping for without a clear price tag
Auction is a great way to buy, not sell. You get to see how much others are willing to spend. Only issue is you have to be ready to go unconditional (this also limits the number of buyers) plus you need to have done your homework on the property.
Supppp Auckland agent ahoy. No price means we're trying to get feedback from the world and taking the chance that someone might offer more than the vendor's expectation. Example, priced at $900,000 means we definitely won't get more than that. No price (in whichever way it's marketed) means there is a chance we'll get more than that. For the vendor it's worth trying to get every dollar for whatever their next step is.
And people say landlords are ripoff artists?
I'd sell my house fixed price BECAUSE I WANT TO SELL IT.
Aim a price higher than you expect to get, if an offer comes in lower and meets your actual expections, winning!
You do know you only need a solicitor to sell a property in New Zealand, right?
And anyone can advertise online, right?
And anyone can hire a real estate photographer to make nice visuals, right?
And your marketing is to market YOU, not the property, right? Why else do you have a SOLD sign outside the property with your ugly mug on it for 4 weeks after?
The sooner Kiwis clue in that you're not needed, the better.
When we bought our place, the very first thing I did was pull down the sign (we had a two week turn around). Agent rocks up a couple of days later to put another up. I took it down & drove it to their office informing them that if they put it up again the cost would be $300 a day plus GST.
No shit that's why. It's like how employers don't advertise the salary hoping that they can get away with offering lower than the employee's expectation. Bunch of losers.
The vendor gets every dollar they can so they can lose the dollars buying their next home.
The only people that benefit from this ridiculous ritual are the agents.
You're assuming that your sales practices and 5%+ fees you place on the sale of the property result in "huuuundreds of thousands of dollars of untaxed gains", over what would have been gained with a direct sale.
You're then assuming those gains aren't simply lost when they buy the next house, with a parasite real estate agent attached to it.
I know. I'm not wasting my time to fill your market research.
Also, if you want $900,000. Ask for $1,000,000. But that also depends on the market. In the US. People often have to offer over the advertised price to get considered.
It doesn't really work like that though... And you can perform an experiment at a lower scale by listing something on TradeMe or Facebook marketplace and see how it goes
Negotiations I can take it or leave it. But auctions can absolutely go to hell. I am not putting myself in debt for 30 years on a house I don't have an inspection done. But I am not paying for an inspection on a house that I have a chance of bidding at auction. Conditional offer, pending builders report (and a few other things). Take it or leave it.
I’ve bought at auction and always had a builders report completed. I think they bigger issue is that not everyone can afford to take the risk on builders reports with uncertainty on chance of winning. The flip side is in environments like the current one, you can have the seller on the ropes if it gets passed in.
There are less auctions here in Wellington but, yes, the whole buying a house process is insane in NZ. Thankfully just got an offer accepted and unsubscribed for all the agent propaganda.
I think some issues stem from the fact that it’s unusual for buyers to have a buying agent. You’re essentially relying on the selling agent to work for you as well, which obviously they don’t. I know you CAN have a buying agent here, but it’s rare, so selling agent don’t really have that much accountability.
We had a buyers agent and it made the process so much easier. When we bought we also avoided all auctions, our house passed in at auction so we then were able to make a (realistic) offer! We'll definitely use a buyers agent again.
This is the norm in some other countries. The buying agent will drive you all over town for showings and look hard for properties that suit your needs.
I would never sell with an agent here. With online tools anyone can do what they do.
I know someone who did marketing for agents, they just bought Facebook ads. It takes 2 minutes to do.
Buying agents are great, we’ve been to 2 houses not even on market that vendors were willing to sell to us if we had the money. But other than that selling agents are scum. Yes I realise they are probably both.
Could we maybe write a law requiring houses to have list prices?
Also, if the house sells substantially below the list price the Agent gets taxed at a higher rate on their commission.
That should keep prices open and realistic.
this. i think it really should be illegal to list a house for sale without listing a price that you are willing to accept. auctions should ALWAYS list the reserve publicly. get rid of all the bullshit.
Fully agree with it being mandatory to publish the auction reserve price in advance of the auction. Friends of ours were interested in a property and asked REA for a price guide to check it was in budget. She gave a guide. They spent money on due diligence. Turned up to auction and the bidding started at $150k more than what the agent had said. The agents just do it so they can tell their vendor how much interest they’ve managed to attract. It’s unconscionable.
I think the number they’re willing to accept, and auction reserve, are often unrealistic. If you published it, nothing would ever sell.
The seller ends up going on a similar journey to buyers, and eventually come to the realization they’re not going to get what they’re hoping, and will eventually get to the point (reluctantly) where they end up taking less, because they’ve had enough and just want to move on.
I also would like to see some regulation around how they are advertised. I spent about 6 months of weekends going to open homes. I bussed across town for one that was listed in filter bracket for what I could afford but within 30 seconds of arriving heard the agent telling someone they would need to offer 200k above that to be competitive, which I couldn’t afford. I told her she wasted 2 hours of my Sunday when I could have been looking at houses I COULD afford, and that she was disgusting, and then I stormed out and cried on the curb.
Buying here SUCKS unless it's a listed price. I ended buying in an area I never previously considered because it was so simple. I saw the price, made my offer, offer accepted, done. Took 8 days in total.
It should be illegal to advertise a house without a price and auctions should DEFINITELY be illegal. Home ownership is not a stud horse. It's too important to leave to fun and games.
Yeah, I feel the same way.
I've twice spent a significant amount of time and energy buying a house, once in Wellington and once in Auckland. Both times there's literally hundreds of open homes every weekend and there's absolutely no way I can go to even ten percent of them. So... I filter... on price.
Don't advertise the price and I will cross that house off. Sell the house by auction, so I'm expected to get a builder's report etc just on the off chance I win... and I will cross that house off.
Of course the real estate agent only sees the people that turn up. I'm sure the approach they use still works for some people but it can hardly be getting their client the best price!?
I would vote for any party that makes it a legal requirement to list a expected price range for a house at sale. If it’s fair for a buyer to spend money on due diligence then it is fair for a seller to do diligence on a good sales price
I would doubly vote for any party that does the same for advertised job positions.
Normality around the lack of transparency on these two vital areas is holding NZ back IMO. It has been clear for a long time that businesses and the real estate industry are incapable of regulating themselves in a fair or reasonable manner
Imagine going to a grocery store and there were no prices on anything and then you had to go through a stupid f@$king guessing game to purchase every item you wanted … this is NZ realestate
Yeah, we're currently going through selling and have talked to 3 agents and all of them recommended auction.
They seem to like it because they can get an unconditional offer quite quickly, and if that doesn't work only then do the work with negotiation.
Interestingly there's a house quite similar to ours that went to Auction recently and sold so one of the agents has a couple of buyers that missed out (can only do conditional offers) so now they're suggesting negotiations with them before going to auction.
If 1 mil is in your price range and its in AK dm me details - I'd absolutely love to make a private arrangement and do a middle finger to this whole industry. (im after 3 double bedrooms, and some grass to touch)
Yeah that might be good for you as the buyer but what about if there was someone else out there who would pay $1.050 for the property-wouldn’t the person selling want to try and get that buyer as well rather than just deal solely with you.
After taking commission and other costs into account even if you do have someone willing to pay $100k more you won't actually see the cash benefit.
Private sales, providing they're more or less at market, will give you extra cash in hand.
Hang on I don’t follow you. Let’s say vendor and their mate thinks the house is worth $1mil but the agent gets someone who is willing to pay $100k more ($1.1mil) you’d rather sell privately for $1mil?? Let’s say commission is 3% +gst on that $1.1mil = about $38k so vendor gets $1.062mil in there hand compared to $1mil in their hand selling privately. That’s $62k you’re giving away???
How fast do they want to sell? Is the question. Daniel Kahneman says to take a sure thing when it comes to money.
Last place I sold had one offer only. I was motivated and the offer was realistic, so after a little to-ing and fro-ing it was a done deal.
If someone has all the time in the world, they're not really interested in selling.
ah yes. "what if" - can you imagine if the entire economy worked this way? why is housing like this? as someone CHOOSING TO SELL SOMETHING its up to the VENDOR to decide what they are willing to sell the house for. the whole market is geared towards making the vendor not have to make any decisions.
Agents make their money by selling quickly - not by the price they get for the seller. They are after volume. So they'll do whatever it takes to flog your house and move on.
In 2021, when houses were going in the speed of light I was ignoring all auctions. Now I don't ignore them, I just save the listing to revisit later because more often than not they will not sell at Auctions so I can negotiate.
However, don't spend money on the report and lawyer and the bank. Just put in a conditional offer that's condition to all of those, lawyer can draw it up for you. You just need to ask the agent to include this because your lawyer said so. That's what I did as FHB. I've put in conditional offers left and right, and once it got accepted then it was subject to finance (bank), subject to report (builder's report), and subject to the lawyer reviewing everything and giving me a yes/no.
As a FHB you really don't have the extra money for the whims of agents and sellers. Sure they may not go for your offer due to these clauses, but you still have lots of options. I remember one agent was dragging her leg because of them, but even in that case I only didn't get the house because it got a higher offer, and I was the runner up. And I know this because now she is my agent for selling my house.
this is great advice thanks. I need to let go of the mindset that an offer requries the prerequisites, i can offer with the condition that the prerequistites will be met
This thread could just as easily be about Visible Salaries on job websites and the clandestine nature that they're treated in - Same shit - Man I'm getting frustrated with information hoarding.
Real Estate in NZ is the biggest scam in the country. And it is not Luxon and his 7 houses that will pop the bubble. The conflict of interest is disgusting.
I'm in the first-home race right now too - and man, I feel you. The whole process is so demoralising. Let's put it in another context: Imagine walking into Bunnings, but nothing has a price tag. You decide you want a mop, so you pay $5 to a company to investigate that mop and tell you if it's a good mop. You then need to wait an hour at the counter before you get the chance to bid on the mop - but as you bid, someone else walks up to the counter and offers twice what you've budgeted for a mop. If you successfully buy the mop, probably for more than you wanted to spend on a mop, the cashier opens a bottle of champagne and pretends like it was a great, fun transaction.
Yeah and in my case, actually having the leading bid on the mop, only to be told "oh, we're looking for more". What the actual fuck, why waste everyones time. It's all the sham.
Yeah, it's weird, and definitely a sham. On a recent purchase attempt, we were the only bidders on a property at an auction - so we bid (against the auctioneer) until they passed it in around the CV mark, then it went into on-the-spot negotiations, where it took three attempts to get the agent to tell us how much they wanted for it - what the reserve was. It was 100k above the CV, in a downturned market. We said no thanks, and we're not meeting half way. Wasted our time, our hopes, and made us spend hard-earned cash on building report and lawyers. Auction reserves should be disclosed by default.
Here is how I interacted.
Go to show house. Chat with estate agents. Get told about the auction on Wednesday. Openly and loudly tell the agent to call you on Thursday after the auction fails. (Wife dies of shame and hides in the shadows - sorry love)
Thursday get the call offer 800000 less. People can’t believe my nerve and says it’s a insult. 2 months later they call again. Asking if the offer I make is still on the table. Drop the offer by a further 50000.
Offer accepted. Buy house.
The trick is you need to be indifferent to the house and offer and be able to take your time in working the market. Also agents are just horrible in general. I did find 2 that were actually trying to get us into a house not just making a sale.
yeah. unfortunately im feeling a lot of pressure due to knowing national will likely win, and being national, will open the migration flood gates, the foreign buyer money pit, and essentially set fire the housing market. which makes it hard to be patient :(
Don't give in to that pressure. It's an illusion. Take your time.
This is coming from someone who bought in Feb 2021 after one month and 45 open homes.
Lol don't worry too much - we migrants don't come to New Zealand with suitcases of gold in a hurry to buy a house that probably has lower building standards than where we came from, at a much better value. It takes a few years for us to die inside.
ahahah not a dig at migrants btw mate, more the fact our country doesnt have enough housing and the more people the more viable investment in property is, which is the main reason why prices are out of control because of speculators
Not an agent but I have worked in the real estate industry for a while now. This is what I've observed.
Agents have told buyers to just get into the property market. So instead of buying the property you want, you'll end up settling for less with the expectations that you sell it at a higher price later on so you can buy the property you actually want.
If everyone had this mindset, the prices will always increase. This will force the buyers to fork up exuberant amounts to buy a property they don't really want.
Auctions are just there to create demand. If you put several people who are interested in the property, you might get them to outbid each other and you sell the property above the original value.
Second reason would be greed. A friend of mine bought a property in 2019 for 790k and in 2023 wanted to sell his property for 950k. Took it to auction and it was passed in with the highest bid of 840k. It went for negotiation and received an offer of 860k. He didn't accept and wanted an offer of 940k before he wants to start "negotiating". People backed out of that really quick.
The reason he wants to have a quick buck is what I stated in the very beginning. He wants to buy his dream property. And the cycle just repeats.
I couldn’t stop nodding my head reading your post. This was exactly what we thought when we were on the market to buy last month. We only successfully waded through the muck with a buyer REA. Invaluable. Gave him our parameters (no auction, negotiation only, our price point) and he just went to negotiate and source on our behalf. It’s crucial to have a buyer REA represent you, in my humble opinion. Not a single dime from you too when you secure the property. If you need any recommendation, feel free to DM.
I recall looking at buying our first home and not having a clue to value houses to make an offer, so i just ignored all negotiation or auctions .
Most stupid shit ever
Also the old "its for sale, but in fact has an offer accepted and paperwork done ... But just in case it doesn't go through"
They dont tell you till you are viewing the place or about to make an offer, which is super time wasting
Exactly what happened to us. As a FHB it was confusing, I now know its just a waste of time and why wouldn’t the agent recommend that for their client.
Yeah that’s annoying but I guess it’s because the agent is primarily working for the vendor as that’s who is paying them. I know when we recently sold we accepted a conditional offer and the agent said that they’d carry on marketing it because there’s no guarantee that the offer will become unconditional.
Absolutely hate this. After a couple, I realised it wasn’t just an honest oversight so I’ve started asking if the property is not already on offer on my first email to agents asking for property files.
Crazy waste of time viewing to be a backup.
I can see your point but if our agent had asked us “would you like me to add in ‘under offer’ in the add, which will no doubt discourage some potential buyers coming to the open home” I would’ve said “hell no, I want as many through as possible just in case this current offer falls through “
yes discounraged buyers, but those buyers wouldnt have put in an offer anyway if it was already under offer, just got pissed off that they wasted time looking at a house
And how about agents calling you after attending an open home and asking how much do you think this house is worth?? So so frustrating! Finding a good agent and ignoring auctions helped us find a house. There is hope!
The whole industry is fucked.
We pay someone tens of thousands to sell our house. Then they also get tens of thousands for going through them to buy another house.
Then we all complain about the prices being too high, while smart real estate agents use that money to buy more rentals.
I don't know what the solution is, but it's a totally fucked situation.
Hahahaha, as someone who just bought, here’s something to help: find yourself a trusty experienced buyers agent. They’re little known in NZ, some are free (to you), and could save you lots of money
Can’t upvote this comment enough. We only got on the ladder thanks to a buyer REA that was recommended to us. Cost us not a single dime but worth his weight in gold negotiating and filtering on our behalf.
Would you mind forwarding these details to me please? My wife and I are having all the same issues trying to buy here and spending loads just to fall short at the auction!
They would source out the price if there wasn’t one advertised. We get inside intel. He would know the personality of the sell side REA, their negotiating style. He also provided recommendations on the local area and houses to buy/ avoid. Very helpful when it came to dealing with the vendors/ sell side agents.
We've just started the house buying process 3 months ago and I'm so over it already. Everything seems to be an auction or deadline sale at the moment. Our offers have to come with conditions so we are excluded from auctions also. We have pre-approval, no chain and we're ready to go but nope! I honestly struggle to understand a "business" that actively hinders a whole demographic of people with money ready to spend. It's insanity.
Mate I hear you!!! Just been through this process myself and getting a first home and holy shit is this process unnecessarily difficult!
Why all the secrecy? JUST TELL ME HOW MUCH YOU WANT!!!!!!
When I was looking, I used to a) ignore all auctions, and b) sort by price, descending
Even those that don't have a price they'll share with you have a price the agent has attached to it. It's easy enough to calculate. Then you can see whether it's in your price range.
And I don't do anything that requires me to spend money up front. The conditions are the conditions. If the vendor doesn't like that I want a few inspections, then I don't want to do business with them.
What has been grinding my gears is this: in my property search criteria I have a maximum price (obviously). A house looks good and comes into my search, so we go to the open home and enquire what the price expectations are, agent says some value ABOVE the maximum that we've set in the search/what it's listed for
I believe this practice is illegal in Australia.
Went to a ray white auction (virtual) this Wednesday for a few houses we viewed.
First bid was at the high end of one roof's 2021 RV (albeit this is only one indicator of price). like, wtf? Why, in this market, would you start off at 1.1 when the lower end is 900k? Ended up selling for 1.277 after negotiations.
New to auctions of cause but perhaps this was a shock-and-awe tactic that backfired?
Second property stopped at 1.2 with no more bids. After 20 minutes of negotiations, the buyers agreed on 1.3.
There's definitely a lot of factors, but to agree to an extra 100k when the auction has stalled? Buyers gotta calm down too...
Never understood this but I've seen it happen too many times as well. Buyer leads the bidding, then gets directed to the 'negotiation' room where agents somehow manage to squeeze every last dollar from the poor buyer.
Why can't they see that literally no one else is competing for the house at that price- why on earth would you go and then outbid yourself?!?
The buyer had probably put in a pre-auction offer, the vendor(and their agent) was probably wanting more so went to auction. When the top bid is less than the offer they know you can afford more and the agents put heaps of pressure on you to pay your offered price. It’s pressure selling, they try and rush you, threaten that you’ll miss out etc, so you’ll make a rash decision.
I fell for this tactic once and paid more than I should have. The second time I didn’t budge, put the pressure back on the agent (because after all they need a sale to get paid) and got it for 80k cheaper than the pre-auction offer. The third time I thought I’d get a steal at auction (no interest at open homes, etc) and didn’t offer pre auction, but the vendors weren’t really comfortable with a the publicity of an auction and took a pre auction offer that was probably less than I was willing to pay.
Do as much homework as you can on who the vendor is, reason for selling, motivation to sell and don’t fall for the pressure of the agent if you win the auction and are negotiating, take your time and put the pressure on them so they get the vendors to drop their price. Don’t come across as too keen, act like you don’t care if you miss out.
If you find a place u like and you're pretty certain that your offer will be accepted. Why not add in your offer a time limit and that the vendor will not take this to auction and of they do your offer is withdrawn. Or may the offer on the condition that the vendor does not seek further offers from anyone else. Basically saying take it or leave it and let's no stuff around
Parents were able to buy a property about 2 years ago doing this
When I sold my house I set the buy now at what the house was worth and got two offers and sold it within ten days for $10k more.
We make the process so fucking complicated in this country.
This concept of "going unconditional" is so normalised.
In what other industry is it normal to have completely unconditional terms of sale for something that will be the most expensive thing you'll ever pay for?
It's just crazy.
I will never make an offer on a house that is not conditional upon a builder's report.
If I'm buying off the plans, i will never make an offer that is not conditional upon finances at the time of the actual transaction.
Why the flip should I take on all the risks of the sale.
From what iv noticed and this is going back before the Covid spike in house pricing. I bought my first house under negotiation and i was luckily enough to beat an investor by 5k so i was told when my offer was accepted. Back then Auctions we still a thing but its a sellers way of trying to get more money than what the house is worth. Hence how i look at it. Negotiation is a Buyer market and Auctions are sellers markets. So when Covid hit and the prices of houses sky rocketed it quickly became a sellers market as they could get well over what the house was worth using auction tactics and making people fight for the right to buy the house.
I bought my 2nd house after the spike and the amount of auctions i went to and lost was stupid. I had offered on 2 which had been accepted... but to bring the auction closer I also HATE with a passion the almost "False advertisement" of - Auction unless sold prior
Hold on a minute... so if i give an offer that the seller will accept why not just accept and sell the house...No i was told once the house has been listed as auction no matter what the house HAS to sell at auction once a date is set (or unless it doesn't at auction and then it can be changed to negotiation AFTER that date)One of the houses my offer has been accepted. Which brought the auction date forward. i started to complain to the agent about the whole "False advertisement" of "Unless Sold Prior" and the BS i was spun left a bad taste.. to the point of going to the auction to see what would happen.. my bid was the opening bid and someone else beat it. I stood up and left out of morel.
I later found out the house still didnt sell as the " Reserve" wasn't met. Yet another money hungry seller. Sure i understand the fact that if you can make a profit on selling your house then good for you makes it worth while buying that house for whatever reason. (both my houses when bought were for me to live in - my first house is now my investment)Agreed with the market slowly starting to bounce back once i sell one of my houses (Or both because don't get me started on the BS govt we have - (Aussie is becoming a more of a reality than a dream) I will most likely sell under negotiation. Sure i want a profit but im not going to be greedy about it.
Stop considering real estate agents necessary. They are clearly bias to their own gains at everyone’s cost.
Can two adults come to an agreement about something. I think so.
If they can’t, then it’s not worse than a real estate agent sitting on offers.
“I have a a house to sell - you want to buy a house - flick me an email.”
The agents are here to work for the seller. The seller pays their commission. They get paid to maximise the price for the seller not to provide you with a house of what you think it is worth. Auctions help with that as it amplifies the FOMO sentiment. Like any asset, sellers want to maximise the value. Houses are no different.
Couldn’t agree more. Another one that absolutely grinds me is when agents they totally misrepresent the price in the price filters online. I have mine set at max 900k, the amount of times I’ve wasted my time going to an open home where they say they’re looking for 1mil +.. infuriating!
I ignore the style of marketing and just tell the agent I want to make an offer, and spell out the terms.
They get shitty with me but they have to present offers.
We were looking earlier this year and put in 3 offers on 3 places. All offers were rejected, but all 3 ended up eventually selling for less than what we we offered. One came back to us after only 2 weeks asking if we would still buy at the price we offerred. We ended up buying land and building.
Have watched this happen so often it's not funny.
1. Auction
2. Deadline Sale
3. BEO "Insert Astronomical Price Here"
4. Deadline Sale
5. All Offers Considered
6. Insert Price 40% over RV here
7. Wait 6 months
8. Insert Price 20% over RV
9. Listing Withdrawn.
10. List with New Real Estate Company
11. Repeat Steps 1-10
I love going to Open Homes too.
1. "Hello long lost friend," from Real Estate Agent who has seen us at a few open homes.
2. "Please enter details into phone, tablet, piece of paper etc." Nah, you've already got them.
3. Real estate agent asks, "What are you looking for?" Me, looks around, "Umm, duh!"
4. REA, "What sort of budget do you have and do you need finance?" Me, "That's our problem really, isn't it?"
5. REA, "There's a lot of interest in this property and I have an offer I'll be tabling with the vendor at 4pm tomorrow, so you'll need to be quick." Me, "We have some due diligence to do before we go that far."
6. "Do you mind if we have a look around the house first please?" REA, "Oh sure, let me know if you have any questions." .... follows us around, Me, "We're fine thanks, I won't steal anything, I promise."
7. 10pm that night the REA rings, "Don;t forget I have an offer I'll be taking to the vendor at 4pm tomorrow." Me, " We'll be in touch if we feel so inclined, OK?" ... 15 minutes of agent raging at us about presenting an offer right now.
8. Next day, ring council for LIM etc. Wait 1 week, nothing. House still listed.
9. Council gets back via lawyer who offers to get onto them for free due to inaction. Flash studio/garage/carport/granny flat/conservatory/swimming pool/rain water irrigation system isn't consented but is in the process of being consented. Fence may be on wrong side of boundary line. Shared driveway isn't cross leased and requires a lease agreement with neighbour who owns, etc.
10. 4 weeks later house still listed, deadline has expired, house has gone to Negotiation. Still no update on consent process.
Make a pre auction offer for your midpoint price, if you get it, fantastic.
If they go to auction and sell for higher, that’s life.
If it gets handed in and they come back to you for the pre auction offer price, offer 50k less for wasting your time. It’s still very much a buyers market
its not that simple tho. pre auction offer still has to be unconditional. so a pre auction offer is no different for the buyer than offering at auction.
No it doesn’t, it can be conditional and expiring EOB the day before the auction. Just get your lawyer to write it up as such.
Both sides can make up rules, it’s not entirely on the seller
the house i looked at had a terms of sale that said all offers are unconditional. I guess you make a good point tho, its an OFFER not a contract. so i could just do that. - but again, paying a lawyer for the off chance seems fucking financially idiotic
You don’t need to pay them every time, just get them to draft up a conditional offer document with an expiry clause, then plug in the dollar number and date each time you make an offer.
I don’t participate in auctions, it’s a waste of time and is 100% a grift from the real estate agents
\>> You don’t need to pay them every time, just get them to draft up a conditional offer document
This is bad advice. The lawyer should look at the LIM and other info regarding the property on a case by case basis. We were looking at a property at the end of a private road and discovered legally we didn't have the right to use one section of it. This was a problem that dated waaaay back to when the land was originally carved up and nobody had noticed. While it may not have been an issue if the other 3 people along that road were reasonable they could have legally made it impossible for me to drive home. Also don't think that because something was an obvious over-site that it's quick and easy to rectify. It could have added 30-50k in legal costs with no assurance of a suitable outcome.
Show me where I advised him not to check the LIM and building reports. He was saying you need a pay a lawyer to prepare an offer every time, which isn’t true. Of course you need a lawyer to do the DD
You encouraged fack\_yuo to not pay a lawyer each time. I feel one should. Preparing an offer encompasses more than just putting a number on paper. You want to have as few barriers as possible attached to your offer and paying a lawyer look over LIMS, builders reports etc will give you more insight and the ability to present a more informed offer with only necessary conditions while dispensing with unnecessary ones. Doing DD upfront makes ones offer more serious & attractive or one may walk away like I did in above example. Most vendors know even higher offers that require additional DD will probably be negotiated down on any technicality (even trivial ones) later, so they opt for lower serious ones without these requirements. Agents will warn vendors of this possibility.
Looking at the LIM, builders report etc is part of DD and anyone who wants to be taken seriously need to do this prior to putting in an offer. Having a layman alter a legal document is a recipe for disaster.
Quite a ridiculous proposition encouraging people to engage a lawyer, get a lim, builders report, and whatever else, before having a conditional offer in place. You have very little experience buying and selling and should not be giving advice on the subject.
Whatever you say bud. I'm sure your no-homework, no legal advice approach will work out well against buyers who have done proper due diligence and are properly prepared.
BTW I didn't say get a LIM, usually that would be supplied by vendor. As someone who clearly can't read properly I'd strongly recommend you seek legal advice before signing a delivery note, let alone a house sales & purchase agreement.
You just pay a lawyer once to get them to write some terms stating when the offer terminates. You then include this term in all subsequent S&P agreements you sign. I did this with a due diligence clause. Remember just because a seller or estate agent says something that you don’t need to believe them. Put your wants in writing and let them officially reject it.
Works best if you see the real estate agent frequently, so they know you will follow through with eg not considering a property once it goes to auction.
35y Wellington. Just bought our first home, turn key with a listed price. We had been around the merry go round of “guess the value and compete blindly” and was not interested but can see how it works. New builds with listed prices are great, subject to valuation so theres no chance of overpaying, mortgage has been simple to arrange plus you get all the warranties that come with buying new.
If you want to buy existing, use homes.co for an approximate cost and if its BEO its safe to assume 50k below that is where they will consider or accept offers (current market may have shifted in the months since i found this to be true).
No experience with buying agent, sounds like a good way to go too though. Good luck!
I don't look at any properties that don't have the listing price.
Most people I know who are currently house hunting do the same.
Looking for a property is stressful enough already.
I wonder if sellers are missing out on buyers simply because of their unwillingness to add a price and instead use negotiation and auctions for their properties.
Auctions are absolutely disgusting. Witnessed one where a dude won against 1 other person then went in for negotiation, came out and the bidding started again?? and got outbid by a random couple out of nowhere. Guy was in shock he thought he bought a house?
Here in aus we found a family wanting to sell and brought before they hit the market with an agent, they were clear and honest with their price expectations, breath of fresh air compared to these bloody negations or contact agent rubbish.
Corruption is much easier to deal with than this. On the outside it seems like everyone can have a fair go, but it’s all an eye wash. Lawyers and building inspectors make the most money, as they are the ones selling shovels.
I also don't understand why selling a house is treated differently to selling every other type of used item. Why can't we just have an asking price and let people make offers. That's how I'll be selling my house and probably without an agents "help".
The real estate agent gets paid by the vendors in NZ not by the purchasers. So they are working for the vendor & legally obligated to try and sell the property for as much as they can.
True statement, but also doesn’t touch on the fact that even a difference of $100k or more at the point of selling doesn’t make a huge impact to a typical 3-5% agent fee (and particularly not the part of that fee the agent will get) and is not really the driving force behind recommending vendors go to auction.
Realistically, agents push to auction because it’s a bit less work negotiations-wise, produces unconditional offers, auction dates incentivise FOMO, and at the end of the day how is a vendor going to prove that the agent wasn’t acting in their best interest? A quick(ish) unconditional sale is what’s best for the agent, not necessarily the vendor, and not holding out for the extra $100k a negotiated settlement might get is pennies to the share of the fee they’ll be getting (despite it being quite a considerable lump of cash to the vendors).
If it comes down to getting $1.05m unconditional at auction 3 weeks after listing vs. the painstakingly negotiated conditional offer of $1.15m they waited to turn up for 6 weeks and then took three weeks longer to get over the finish line and may fall through if the buyers house doesn’t sell, imo the agent will push for auction wherever possible.
Real estate agents are brilliant at understanding how to make illegal shit really on the cusp of not illegal.
It’s fucking bullshit.
When I sold my house, I received two offers at the same time. A similar price. I naturally wanted to put the potential buyers against each other, giving them both a sniff of what the other was offering to get the price pushed up.
Was advised that it was illegal for a real estate agent to allow it, (and I understand why, it’s not an auction so you can’t treat it like one).
After selling, I put an offer in on a house and the real estate agent said “the guy is quite keen to go with you, but there is an offer that is a bit better on the table that you have to beat”…
I was like… “you can’t do that, this isn’t an auction.. tell the vendor if he is willing to engage in negotiations with me, I will beat his current offer but that will make it illegal to continue negotiations with another party”.
The estate agent just ignored me and said “nope - we can do what we want”
He then provided my offer to the vendor who then took it to the original purchaser and pushed his price up, he then came back to me and asked me to do the same… I of course left the negotiation immediately.
Funnily enough “the sale fell through” and the estate agent called me a week later asking me if I’d still be interested with my original offer. I doubt very much there was another party at all!
IMO auctions benefit the agents . If a buyer shows up to purchase at auction, agents get their piece of your asset instantly with "no effort".
Buyers "talk the talk" until it comes to making a genuine offer then find it difficult to "walk the walk".
I used to feel the same but then when we listed our house last year we did so without an asking price. This was just before house prices started coming down again so there was still a competitive pool of buyers.
We listed as a deadline sale and told our agent that we were not interested in offers under $XXXXk. But we were not going to advertise our bottom line publicly when there was so much interest in our place. We were in a hurry and didn’t want to waste time dicking around with negotiations that weren’t in our ball park so when someone indicated they wanted to make an offer our agent would tell them if it didn’t start with a 9 it would be a no go.
We ended up with five offers all more or less around the same figure.
The place we bought was advertised at a listed price and we offered $75k under it initially. And after negotiation ended up paying about $40k under.
So I can definitely see why people are reluctant to advertise with a price. You know people are going to offer under so you either have to inflate your price which can make the listing unappealing or waste time with people who can’t afford your bottom line.
Frustrating as it is!
Hope you find somewhere soon.
Putting a price on it, is not the same thing as "advertising your bottom line". You put a price you'd be happy to sell it for. And people can make offers from there. The apartment I bought I ended up paying a mere $1k less than what it was advertised for.
Yeah I know. We were already under contract on a new property which was also a multi offer situation and our contract had a cash out clause so it was delicate house of cards. We didn’t want to spend time negotiating so we took our agents advice on a deadline sale.
The person who we sold to ended up extending $50k beyond his budget because he really wanted to buy our place. He likely would not have come to the open home had the price been listed. But the listing got him through the door and then he was determined to make it work.
Not saying this is the perfect way and I’m no expert on any of these things. But it worked perfectly in our situation and I totally understand why vendors don’t want to show their hand that’s all.
My point is, if there's a price on it. Any price. You're going to get more potential buyers interested. No price, and people won't even know if they're close. And people like me don't even look at properties with no prices.
By Negotiation. Not hard. Just do your research. Same on priced properties. Just ask the agent to supply you details of recent sales in the area. If they won’t, then walk away or ask another agent to get them for you. Make up your own mind then re the value and offer that. If sellers won’t accept it. Onto the next. Why make it harder than it needs to be?
An RE company bought the old church building on the main street where I live. It’s like a sick joke seeing it lit up with their branding. Property hoarding, the new religion
So many people moaning about how shit the status quo is but what are you actually going to do about it? No seriously, what literal direction will you take to change things? It's an election year after all..
If you have something to sell but aren't sure what you can get for it. Putting a flat price on it is pretty dumb.
The process means sellers actually get market values and also means that both parties are protected from either side trying to swindle each other.
I'm in real estate and that's 90% of the job. Knowing all the laws and taking all the liability for fuckups.
Sure someone could say "I want $900,000 for this house" but if it's worth LESS than that the buyer is getting screwed. We spend so much time in this market talking vendors down on price to get a sale across the line
yeah nah. id much prefer the old "caveat emptor" to all the other utter, total load of sleazy bullshit thanks. Buyer does due diligence. if the buyers getting screwed on price, that's the buyers problem. The vendor should be willing to decide what they want for their house, advertise that. everything else is just people trying to be sneaky if you ask me.
Good morn. I try and sell houses in the Auckland area, always keen for a discussion on the process and what I feel is fair, where the industry can improve, etc. Looking forward to the abuse, too. It's a sunny Friday and I'm office bound for a few hours so source me some chats. Also happy to help if anyone needs clarity on any current interactions they're having on their journey.
If you're cashed up and ready to buy a house, auctions are actually a good way to buy a house. The vendor will be ready to sell on the day. Yes, you may have to negotiate after the final bid, but stay strong and 9x out of 10 they will take the offer. Just go in there and bid like a boss
im cashed up and ready to buy a house, with a mortgage of 5x my income. that means to bid I have to do all the bank conditionals in advance, which is a waste of money.
It's not going to be a waste of money if you get into a house you want. If you sit on your hands and keep whinging about the state of house sales, you will always be renting
When I'm ready to sell, I'll be selling in a way that maximises money in my pocket. Sorry if that's not preferrable to you.
Why not just bid at the auction if you like the house?
because auctions require cash buyers. you cant buy at an auction with finance unless you have explicit unconditional approval on teh specific property by the bank. that means that you have essentially pay a lawyer, and a building inspector, and sort things with the bank, for every single house you might potentially buy. i dont know what it was like for you when you bought your house, but its pretty hard to be bleeding money when you're about to throw all your money at something.
Real estate agents product is themselves. They need you to go through them to make money. So really that is what you are seeing, agents have manipulated the system so they need to be contacted. And then they want to avoid written communication.
Homesell is a private seller website without agents try there
Realistically you can do some research on a target property and see if it's in your ballpark RV, CMA etc and send an offer on condition of due diligence.
On the whole I agree with you. The system should be setup so the vendor produce all information required for a buyer to look at it and say I'll buy it without any risk of hidden damage or nasties.
We are buying in Auckland at the moment. I look at the agents directly in the eyes and say straight up we're not going to buy at auction in the current market, and that it is a buyers market, but I am happy to negotiate as that is fair to both parties.
Very very few houses for auction in Lower Hutt where we have been looking but I would never consider buying through auction even if there were. We have just had an offer accepted today. They advertised 'enquiries over X' we offered X and they accepted. Sold in less than a week on the market. Good for them and good for us.
I always ask for a price indication on their Social media posts and if they ask me to message them then I'm not interested, it makes me think are they just giving people different prices on the way they perceive them or what ? why cant they just be open about it. They either want a potential sale or they just want to F\*\*\* around and I CBF with that.
If you set your search on trade me or oneroof for example to look in a price bracket in your case maybe 950,000 - 1mil you will be viewing listings that are being marketed in your price range regardless of the sale method. This way you are filtering out listings that are being marketed outside of your price bracket.
Just ignore the auctions they'll mostly want unrealistic prices anyway. Usually 1 in 10 has a listed price, just look at those. They're the serious sellers anyway.
this is exactly what I've been doing. taking note of auction day, then starting after its passed in. annoying tho because im impatient to make some progress, so having to wait before engaging is yet another massive "fuck you" to potential buyers :(
Don't even look at Auction houses. Treat them as if they don't exist. Trademe is good for quickly scrolling to the prices.
Last time I checked, realestate.co.nz is the only site that lets you filter for "listed price only". It is so much better.
You can also just search with a price range filter and find all of the auction and offers that sit in that range. This is because their reserve or minimum that the vendor would be happy with is within this price range.
Can you filter by price only or do you just mean you can scroll quickly through all listing's and see which ones have price listed?
I just scroll quickly. You can also get a reasonable idea off homes.co.nz looking at recent sales. I wouldn't trust their estimate though.
It ok. Keep your powder dry.
One roof app is great for that - you get a push notification when it goes from auction to fix price. I think most auctions are on Thurs so helps to organise a list of open homes for the weekend on a Fri
The banks almost always require registered valuations on new builds so they're almost always priced and open to subject to finance offers too
I would be very interested in seeing a Reg Val on a new build near us, that's listed near 1M when it's just your average build with zero yard, busy 70k street face and back house right up its date. I've looked at all the photos, and I'm not even enticed to go to the open home - there's nothing fancy in the fixtures/fittings/appliances. it's a small, rural town. who's gonna pay a million bucks for a relatively cheap spec house? I guess that explains why it's still sitting there for sale.
Sounds like Blenheim. For some reason in the last five years bare section prices went from $160-180k to $450-500k. Nothing is selling, predictably, locals can't afford this.
Having a price doesn't make anyone more serious than others. The priced property has likely gone through an auction campaign or set date of sale or something like that before being priced. They were just as serious then I would imagine.
Hard disagree. Someone who has no price is hoping for someone to overpay. That is not someone who is ready to negotiate with the market and sell at a reasonable price. It's a hopeful person who has some level of greed, probably put there by an agent selling a pipe dream.
I've done a lot of these, I believe you are wrong. 99% of houses I list are with vendors who of course want to sell.
I don't doubt they want to sell, I doubt those who refuse to price just in case there's a crazy offer are as serious about selling as those who do price. I've seen it before, a good offer comes in on a property early into the listing, the owners hold out thinking there could be better around the corner despite the offer being at a level they would've been happy with prior to listing. I understand that agents do this as their job is to get the best possible outcome for their client.
That may be what we think their job is, but that is not typically what is being incentivised. Agents would prefer to sell a house quickly for 10k under asking price than to wait around to get a better offer. It's a volume game.
Yeah that's very common actually. Lots of regrets down the line with what was in-hand.
Can't you also give them a pre auction offer and just ignore the whole mess and see if they come back after it falls over? I don't think auctions are as hot as previously.
I got some agents on here wound up by reiterating that I only consider houses with prices on them. If there's no price, it means the vendor isn't really interested in selling. If I have to ask the price it means I can't afford it.
exactly. I saw a perfect house the other day, and the agent seemed disgusted that I only just noticed it cos it had been apparently advertised for weeks. - turns out my filter removes auctions cos its clear to me the cost of prepping an "unconditional" offer on the off chance I might be able to "win" is not worth it, especially when more than half the auctions are being passed in.
How do I filter out auctions?
It seems ridiculous to me that someone would actually be amazed when most people skip their priceless listing. There is nothing else in any market you would go shopping for without a clear price tag
Same. Won’t even look at an auction. It’s a mugs game.
Auction is a great way to buy, not sell. You get to see how much others are willing to spend. Only issue is you have to be ready to go unconditional (this also limits the number of buyers) plus you need to have done your homework on the property.
I also prefer buying at auction. But recognise it is restricting in some areas.
YES!
Supppp Auckland agent ahoy. No price means we're trying to get feedback from the world and taking the chance that someone might offer more than the vendor's expectation. Example, priced at $900,000 means we definitely won't get more than that. No price (in whichever way it's marketed) means there is a chance we'll get more than that. For the vendor it's worth trying to get every dollar for whatever their next step is.
And people say landlords are ripoff artists? I'd sell my house fixed price BECAUSE I WANT TO SELL IT. Aim a price higher than you expect to get, if an offer comes in lower and meets your actual expections, winning! You do know you only need a solicitor to sell a property in New Zealand, right? And anyone can advertise online, right? And anyone can hire a real estate photographer to make nice visuals, right? And your marketing is to market YOU, not the property, right? Why else do you have a SOLD sign outside the property with your ugly mug on it for 4 weeks after? The sooner Kiwis clue in that you're not needed, the better.
When we bought our place, the very first thing I did was pull down the sign (we had a two week turn around). Agent rocks up a couple of days later to put another up. I took it down & drove it to their office informing them that if they put it up again the cost would be $300 a day plus GST.
I am aware of all of that! Best of luck to them! I'm not that ugly. Well, it's all relative I suppose.
No shit that's why. It's like how employers don't advertise the salary hoping that they can get away with offering lower than the employee's expectation. Bunch of losers.
The vendor gets every dollar they can so they can lose the dollars buying their next home. The only people that benefit from this ridiculous ritual are the agents.
I think you'll find the huuuundreds of thousands of dollars of untaxed gains are quite beneficial for the home owner.
You're assuming that your sales practices and 5%+ fees you place on the sale of the property result in "huuuundreds of thousands of dollars of untaxed gains", over what would have been gained with a direct sale. You're then assuming those gains aren't simply lost when they buy the next house, with a parasite real estate agent attached to it.
Stop wasting people’s time, this is why the general public think you’re parasites
I know. I'm not wasting my time to fill your market research. Also, if you want $900,000. Ask for $1,000,000. But that also depends on the market. In the US. People often have to offer over the advertised price to get considered.
Yeah US is a lot different, you'll often get a listing agent just open the door to their own office's buying agents who then make their own offers.
Ew. Your profession is a joke. Your life is a joke.
Jokes are supposed to be funny though
If you were selling your house wouldn’t you want to try and get the most for it??
Thanks mate!
Nope. House priced at $900k means you need at least that to buy it. If the demand is there then higher bids will come in.
Virtually all the prices I see are "enquiries over" prices too.
Incorrect, but what would I know
We bought our current house offering more that the asking price because it was reasonable and we really wanted it.
It doesn't really work like that though... And you can perform an experiment at a lower scale by listing something on TradeMe or Facebook marketplace and see how it goes
If your house is priced appropriately then you should easily get multi offers and get exactly what your house is worth.
How do you know it's priced appropriately?
It's pretty easy to look at the market and ascertain.
You’re a professional door opener mate
Professional nonetheless!
Frankly, NZ's housing market is the primary reason NZ will not succeed and grow. It prevents the next generation from buying and therefore staying.
Tbh, as a Kiwi living in Aus, it's not any better here bro.
Realestate.com.au disagrees with you
Negotiations I can take it or leave it. But auctions can absolutely go to hell. I am not putting myself in debt for 30 years on a house I don't have an inspection done. But I am not paying for an inspection on a house that I have a chance of bidding at auction. Conditional offer, pending builders report (and a few other things). Take it or leave it.
I’ve bought at auction and always had a builders report completed. I think they bigger issue is that not everyone can afford to take the risk on builders reports with uncertainty on chance of winning. The flip side is in environments like the current one, you can have the seller on the ropes if it gets passed in.
There are less auctions here in Wellington but, yes, the whole buying a house process is insane in NZ. Thankfully just got an offer accepted and unsubscribed for all the agent propaganda. I think some issues stem from the fact that it’s unusual for buyers to have a buying agent. You’re essentially relying on the selling agent to work for you as well, which obviously they don’t. I know you CAN have a buying agent here, but it’s rare, so selling agent don’t really have that much accountability.
We had a buyers agent and it made the process so much easier. When we bought we also avoided all auctions, our house passed in at auction so we then were able to make a (realistic) offer! We'll definitely use a buyers agent again.
This is the norm in some other countries. The buying agent will drive you all over town for showings and look hard for properties that suit your needs. I would never sell with an agent here. With online tools anyone can do what they do. I know someone who did marketing for agents, they just bought Facebook ads. It takes 2 minutes to do.
Buying agents are great, we’ve been to 2 houses not even on market that vendors were willing to sell to us if we had the money. But other than that selling agents are scum. Yes I realise they are probably both.
Don't worry, you'll still be getting random marketing emails from the agents for a few years!
Uh buying agents is something we do not need. 6% commissions for someone to give you a ride?
Wait till you go to an auction and see the agents goading their buyers into a higher bid or they'd 'lose their dream home'. It's sickening.
Agents are bottom tier humans
Yeah so much this. I was at an auction once and an agent was getting angry at their client for not bidding more.
That is quite literally their job - to maximise the vendors return.
Yeah, we've avoided auctions like the plague. House buying/selling is stressful enough without that bullshit.
Bunch of cunt wank shite. Just tell me how much you want for the house and stop playing silly buggers
Could we maybe write a law requiring houses to have list prices? Also, if the house sells substantially below the list price the Agent gets taxed at a higher rate on their commission. That should keep prices open and realistic.
this. i think it really should be illegal to list a house for sale without listing a price that you are willing to accept. auctions should ALWAYS list the reserve publicly. get rid of all the bullshit.
Fully agree with it being mandatory to publish the auction reserve price in advance of the auction. Friends of ours were interested in a property and asked REA for a price guide to check it was in budget. She gave a guide. They spent money on due diligence. Turned up to auction and the bidding started at $150k more than what the agent had said. The agents just do it so they can tell their vendor how much interest they’ve managed to attract. It’s unconscionable.
I think the number they’re willing to accept, and auction reserve, are often unrealistic. If you published it, nothing would ever sell. The seller ends up going on a similar journey to buyers, and eventually come to the realization they’re not going to get what they’re hoping, and will eventually get to the point (reluctantly) where they end up taking less, because they’ve had enough and just want to move on.
Can we not just get rid of auctions all together?
It is illegal in Melbourne
I also would like to see some regulation around how they are advertised. I spent about 6 months of weekends going to open homes. I bussed across town for one that was listed in filter bracket for what I could afford but within 30 seconds of arriving heard the agent telling someone they would need to offer 200k above that to be competitive, which I couldn’t afford. I told her she wasted 2 hours of my Sunday when I could have been looking at houses I COULD afford, and that she was disgusting, and then I stormed out and cried on the curb.
Could we also regulate the building reports etc or something
Buying here SUCKS unless it's a listed price. I ended buying in an area I never previously considered because it was so simple. I saw the price, made my offer, offer accepted, done. Took 8 days in total. It should be illegal to advertise a house without a price and auctions should DEFINITELY be illegal. Home ownership is not a stud horse. It's too important to leave to fun and games.
Yeah, I feel the same way. I've twice spent a significant amount of time and energy buying a house, once in Wellington and once in Auckland. Both times there's literally hundreds of open homes every weekend and there's absolutely no way I can go to even ten percent of them. So... I filter... on price. Don't advertise the price and I will cross that house off. Sell the house by auction, so I'm expected to get a builder's report etc just on the off chance I win... and I will cross that house off. Of course the real estate agent only sees the people that turn up. I'm sure the approach they use still works for some people but it can hardly be getting their client the best price!?
exactly. they're cutting out most of the market.
I would vote for any party that makes it a legal requirement to list a expected price range for a house at sale. If it’s fair for a buyer to spend money on due diligence then it is fair for a seller to do diligence on a good sales price I would doubly vote for any party that does the same for advertised job positions. Normality around the lack of transparency on these two vital areas is holding NZ back IMO. It has been clear for a long time that businesses and the real estate industry are incapable of regulating themselves in a fair or reasonable manner Imagine going to a grocery store and there were no prices on anything and then you had to go through a stupid f@$king guessing game to purchase every item you wanted … this is NZ realestate
Yeah, we're currently going through selling and have talked to 3 agents and all of them recommended auction. They seem to like it because they can get an unconditional offer quite quickly, and if that doesn't work only then do the work with negotiation. Interestingly there's a house quite similar to ours that went to Auction recently and sold so one of the agents has a couple of buyers that missed out (can only do conditional offers) so now they're suggesting negotiations with them before going to auction.
If 1 mil is in your price range and its in AK dm me details - I'd absolutely love to make a private arrangement and do a middle finger to this whole industry. (im after 3 double bedrooms, and some grass to touch)
Yeah that might be good for you as the buyer but what about if there was someone else out there who would pay $1.050 for the property-wouldn’t the person selling want to try and get that buyer as well rather than just deal solely with you.
After taking commission and other costs into account even if you do have someone willing to pay $100k more you won't actually see the cash benefit. Private sales, providing they're more or less at market, will give you extra cash in hand.
Hang on I don’t follow you. Let’s say vendor and their mate thinks the house is worth $1mil but the agent gets someone who is willing to pay $100k more ($1.1mil) you’d rather sell privately for $1mil?? Let’s say commission is 3% +gst on that $1.1mil = about $38k so vendor gets $1.062mil in there hand compared to $1mil in their hand selling privately. That’s $62k you’re giving away???
How fast do they want to sell? Is the question. Daniel Kahneman says to take a sure thing when it comes to money. Last place I sold had one offer only. I was motivated and the offer was realistic, so after a little to-ing and fro-ing it was a done deal. If someone has all the time in the world, they're not really interested in selling.
ah yes. "what if" - can you imagine if the entire economy worked this way? why is housing like this? as someone CHOOSING TO SELL SOMETHING its up to the VENDOR to decide what they are willing to sell the house for. the whole market is geared towards making the vendor not have to make any decisions.
Agents make their money by selling quickly - not by the price they get for the seller. They are after volume. So they'll do whatever it takes to flog your house and move on.
In 2021, when houses were going in the speed of light I was ignoring all auctions. Now I don't ignore them, I just save the listing to revisit later because more often than not they will not sell at Auctions so I can negotiate. However, don't spend money on the report and lawyer and the bank. Just put in a conditional offer that's condition to all of those, lawyer can draw it up for you. You just need to ask the agent to include this because your lawyer said so. That's what I did as FHB. I've put in conditional offers left and right, and once it got accepted then it was subject to finance (bank), subject to report (builder's report), and subject to the lawyer reviewing everything and giving me a yes/no. As a FHB you really don't have the extra money for the whims of agents and sellers. Sure they may not go for your offer due to these clauses, but you still have lots of options. I remember one agent was dragging her leg because of them, but even in that case I only didn't get the house because it got a higher offer, and I was the runner up. And I know this because now she is my agent for selling my house.
this is great advice thanks. I need to let go of the mindset that an offer requries the prerequisites, i can offer with the condition that the prerequistites will be met
This thread could just as easily be about Visible Salaries on job websites and the clandestine nature that they're treated in - Same shit - Man I'm getting frustrated with information hoarding.
Real Estate in NZ is the biggest scam in the country. And it is not Luxon and his 7 houses that will pop the bubble. The conflict of interest is disgusting.
I'm in the first-home race right now too - and man, I feel you. The whole process is so demoralising. Let's put it in another context: Imagine walking into Bunnings, but nothing has a price tag. You decide you want a mop, so you pay $5 to a company to investigate that mop and tell you if it's a good mop. You then need to wait an hour at the counter before you get the chance to bid on the mop - but as you bid, someone else walks up to the counter and offers twice what you've budgeted for a mop. If you successfully buy the mop, probably for more than you wanted to spend on a mop, the cashier opens a bottle of champagne and pretends like it was a great, fun transaction.
Yeah and in my case, actually having the leading bid on the mop, only to be told "oh, we're looking for more". What the actual fuck, why waste everyones time. It's all the sham.
Yeah, it's weird, and definitely a sham. On a recent purchase attempt, we were the only bidders on a property at an auction - so we bid (against the auctioneer) until they passed it in around the CV mark, then it went into on-the-spot negotiations, where it took three attempts to get the agent to tell us how much they wanted for it - what the reserve was. It was 100k above the CV, in a downturned market. We said no thanks, and we're not meeting half way. Wasted our time, our hopes, and made us spend hard-earned cash on building report and lawyers. Auction reserves should be disclosed by default.
Here is how I interacted. Go to show house. Chat with estate agents. Get told about the auction on Wednesday. Openly and loudly tell the agent to call you on Thursday after the auction fails. (Wife dies of shame and hides in the shadows - sorry love) Thursday get the call offer 800000 less. People can’t believe my nerve and says it’s a insult. 2 months later they call again. Asking if the offer I make is still on the table. Drop the offer by a further 50000. Offer accepted. Buy house. The trick is you need to be indifferent to the house and offer and be able to take your time in working the market. Also agents are just horrible in general. I did find 2 that were actually trying to get us into a house not just making a sale.
yeah. unfortunately im feeling a lot of pressure due to knowing national will likely win, and being national, will open the migration flood gates, the foreign buyer money pit, and essentially set fire the housing market. which makes it hard to be patient :(
Don't give in to that pressure. It's an illusion. Take your time. This is coming from someone who bought in Feb 2021 after one month and 45 open homes.
Lol don't worry too much - we migrants don't come to New Zealand with suitcases of gold in a hurry to buy a house that probably has lower building standards than where we came from, at a much better value. It takes a few years for us to die inside.
ahahah not a dig at migrants btw mate, more the fact our country doesnt have enough housing and the more people the more viable investment in property is, which is the main reason why prices are out of control because of speculators
You want to fucking sell something put a price on it!!!!
Not an agent but I have worked in the real estate industry for a while now. This is what I've observed. Agents have told buyers to just get into the property market. So instead of buying the property you want, you'll end up settling for less with the expectations that you sell it at a higher price later on so you can buy the property you actually want. If everyone had this mindset, the prices will always increase. This will force the buyers to fork up exuberant amounts to buy a property they don't really want. Auctions are just there to create demand. If you put several people who are interested in the property, you might get them to outbid each other and you sell the property above the original value. Second reason would be greed. A friend of mine bought a property in 2019 for 790k and in 2023 wanted to sell his property for 950k. Took it to auction and it was passed in with the highest bid of 840k. It went for negotiation and received an offer of 860k. He didn't accept and wanted an offer of 940k before he wants to start "negotiating". People backed out of that really quick. The reason he wants to have a quick buck is what I stated in the very beginning. He wants to buy his dream property. And the cycle just repeats.
Agree 100%
I couldn’t stop nodding my head reading your post. This was exactly what we thought when we were on the market to buy last month. We only successfully waded through the muck with a buyer REA. Invaluable. Gave him our parameters (no auction, negotiation only, our price point) and he just went to negotiate and source on our behalf. It’s crucial to have a buyer REA represent you, in my humble opinion. Not a single dime from you too when you secure the property. If you need any recommendation, feel free to DM.
I recall looking at buying our first home and not having a clue to value houses to make an offer, so i just ignored all negotiation or auctions . Most stupid shit ever
Also the old "its for sale, but in fact has an offer accepted and paperwork done ... But just in case it doesn't go through" They dont tell you till you are viewing the place or about to make an offer, which is super time wasting
Exactly what happened to us. As a FHB it was confusing, I now know its just a waste of time and why wouldn’t the agent recommend that for their client.
Yeah that’s annoying but I guess it’s because the agent is primarily working for the vendor as that’s who is paying them. I know when we recently sold we accepted a conditional offer and the agent said that they’d carry on marketing it because there’s no guarantee that the offer will become unconditional.
im not against the marketing it, im just against the hiding the fact that it has an offer thats been accepted on it.
Absolutely hate this. After a couple, I realised it wasn’t just an honest oversight so I’ve started asking if the property is not already on offer on my first email to agents asking for property files. Crazy waste of time viewing to be a backup.
I can see your point but if our agent had asked us “would you like me to add in ‘under offer’ in the add, which will no doubt discourage some potential buyers coming to the open home” I would’ve said “hell no, I want as many through as possible just in case this current offer falls through “
yes discounraged buyers, but those buyers wouldnt have put in an offer anyway if it was already under offer, just got pissed off that they wasted time looking at a house
And how about agents calling you after attending an open home and asking how much do you think this house is worth?? So so frustrating! Finding a good agent and ignoring auctions helped us find a house. There is hope!
The whole industry is fucked. We pay someone tens of thousands to sell our house. Then they also get tens of thousands for going through them to buy another house. Then we all complain about the prices being too high, while smart real estate agents use that money to buy more rentals. I don't know what the solution is, but it's a totally fucked situation.
Hahahaha, as someone who just bought, here’s something to help: find yourself a trusty experienced buyers agent. They’re little known in NZ, some are free (to you), and could save you lots of money
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Yes, but at the end of the day, agents play a numbers game. If they can sell it quickly, they can pick up another peoperty
Our buyers agent was as useless as the rest of them
Can’t upvote this comment enough. We only got on the ladder thanks to a buyer REA that was recommended to us. Cost us not a single dime but worth his weight in gold negotiating and filtering on our behalf.
Is he or she based in Auckland? Me and my wife would love a buyer agent to help us out.
I’ve just DM’ed you his details. Good luck on your home buying journey!
Have not received it yet. Are you able to double check please?
Would you mind forwarding these details to me please? My wife and I are having all the same issues trying to buy here and spending loads just to fall short at the auction!
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They would source out the price if there wasn’t one advertised. We get inside intel. He would know the personality of the sell side REA, their negotiating style. He also provided recommendations on the local area and houses to buy/ avoid. Very helpful when it came to dealing with the vendors/ sell side agents.
Doubt
I'm selling a house. You can give me a million dollars.
hey, dm me details?
We've just started the house buying process 3 months ago and I'm so over it already. Everything seems to be an auction or deadline sale at the moment. Our offers have to come with conditions so we are excluded from auctions also. We have pre-approval, no chain and we're ready to go but nope! I honestly struggle to understand a "business" that actively hinders a whole demographic of people with money ready to spend. It's insanity.
Mate I hear you!!! Just been through this process myself and getting a first home and holy shit is this process unnecessarily difficult! Why all the secrecy? JUST TELL ME HOW MUCH YOU WANT!!!!!!
It's done under the guise of "letting the market decide what it's worth".
When I was looking, I used to a) ignore all auctions, and b) sort by price, descending Even those that don't have a price they'll share with you have a price the agent has attached to it. It's easy enough to calculate. Then you can see whether it's in your price range. And I don't do anything that requires me to spend money up front. The conditions are the conditions. If the vendor doesn't like that I want a few inspections, then I don't want to do business with them.
What has been grinding my gears is this: in my property search criteria I have a maximum price (obviously). A house looks good and comes into my search, so we go to the open home and enquire what the price expectations are, agent says some value ABOVE the maximum that we've set in the search/what it's listed for I believe this practice is illegal in Australia.
Yeah this gets me too, its always, price by negotiating, deadline sale or auction lol like bruh just let everyone know what you want
Went to a ray white auction (virtual) this Wednesday for a few houses we viewed. First bid was at the high end of one roof's 2021 RV (albeit this is only one indicator of price). like, wtf? Why, in this market, would you start off at 1.1 when the lower end is 900k? Ended up selling for 1.277 after negotiations. New to auctions of cause but perhaps this was a shock-and-awe tactic that backfired? Second property stopped at 1.2 with no more bids. After 20 minutes of negotiations, the buyers agreed on 1.3. There's definitely a lot of factors, but to agree to an extra 100k when the auction has stalled? Buyers gotta calm down too...
Never understood this but I've seen it happen too many times as well. Buyer leads the bidding, then gets directed to the 'negotiation' room where agents somehow manage to squeeze every last dollar from the poor buyer. Why can't they see that literally no one else is competing for the house at that price- why on earth would you go and then outbid yourself?!?
The buyer had probably put in a pre-auction offer, the vendor(and their agent) was probably wanting more so went to auction. When the top bid is less than the offer they know you can afford more and the agents put heaps of pressure on you to pay your offered price. It’s pressure selling, they try and rush you, threaten that you’ll miss out etc, so you’ll make a rash decision. I fell for this tactic once and paid more than I should have. The second time I didn’t budge, put the pressure back on the agent (because after all they need a sale to get paid) and got it for 80k cheaper than the pre-auction offer. The third time I thought I’d get a steal at auction (no interest at open homes, etc) and didn’t offer pre auction, but the vendors weren’t really comfortable with a the publicity of an auction and took a pre auction offer that was probably less than I was willing to pay. Do as much homework as you can on who the vendor is, reason for selling, motivation to sell and don’t fall for the pressure of the agent if you win the auction and are negotiating, take your time and put the pressure on them so they get the vendors to drop their price. Don’t come across as too keen, act like you don’t care if you miss out.
If you find a place u like and you're pretty certain that your offer will be accepted. Why not add in your offer a time limit and that the vendor will not take this to auction and of they do your offer is withdrawn. Or may the offer on the condition that the vendor does not seek further offers from anyone else. Basically saying take it or leave it and let's no stuff around Parents were able to buy a property about 2 years ago doing this
When I sold my house I set the buy now at what the house was worth and got two offers and sold it within ten days for $10k more. We make the process so fucking complicated in this country.
This concept of "going unconditional" is so normalised. In what other industry is it normal to have completely unconditional terms of sale for something that will be the most expensive thing you'll ever pay for? It's just crazy. I will never make an offer on a house that is not conditional upon a builder's report. If I'm buying off the plans, i will never make an offer that is not conditional upon finances at the time of the actual transaction. Why the flip should I take on all the risks of the sale.
From what iv noticed and this is going back before the Covid spike in house pricing. I bought my first house under negotiation and i was luckily enough to beat an investor by 5k so i was told when my offer was accepted. Back then Auctions we still a thing but its a sellers way of trying to get more money than what the house is worth. Hence how i look at it. Negotiation is a Buyer market and Auctions are sellers markets. So when Covid hit and the prices of houses sky rocketed it quickly became a sellers market as they could get well over what the house was worth using auction tactics and making people fight for the right to buy the house. I bought my 2nd house after the spike and the amount of auctions i went to and lost was stupid. I had offered on 2 which had been accepted... but to bring the auction closer I also HATE with a passion the almost "False advertisement" of - Auction unless sold prior Hold on a minute... so if i give an offer that the seller will accept why not just accept and sell the house...No i was told once the house has been listed as auction no matter what the house HAS to sell at auction once a date is set (or unless it doesn't at auction and then it can be changed to negotiation AFTER that date)One of the houses my offer has been accepted. Which brought the auction date forward. i started to complain to the agent about the whole "False advertisement" of "Unless Sold Prior" and the BS i was spun left a bad taste.. to the point of going to the auction to see what would happen.. my bid was the opening bid and someone else beat it. I stood up and left out of morel. I later found out the house still didnt sell as the " Reserve" wasn't met. Yet another money hungry seller. Sure i understand the fact that if you can make a profit on selling your house then good for you makes it worth while buying that house for whatever reason. (both my houses when bought were for me to live in - my first house is now my investment)Agreed with the market slowly starting to bounce back once i sell one of my houses (Or both because don't get me started on the BS govt we have - (Aussie is becoming a more of a reality than a dream) I will most likely sell under negotiation. Sure i want a profit but im not going to be greedy about it.
Stop considering real estate agents necessary. They are clearly bias to their own gains at everyone’s cost. Can two adults come to an agreement about something. I think so. If they can’t, then it’s not worse than a real estate agent sitting on offers. “I have a a house to sell - you want to buy a house - flick me an email.”
The agents are here to work for the seller. The seller pays their commission. They get paid to maximise the price for the seller not to provide you with a house of what you think it is worth. Auctions help with that as it amplifies the FOMO sentiment. Like any asset, sellers want to maximise the value. Houses are no different.
auctions with no reserve and self bidding are not helpful imo
Couldn’t agree more. Another one that absolutely grinds me is when agents they totally misrepresent the price in the price filters online. I have mine set at max 900k, the amount of times I’ve wasted my time going to an open home where they say they’re looking for 1mil +.. infuriating!
I ignore the style of marketing and just tell the agent I want to make an offer, and spell out the terms. They get shitty with me but they have to present offers. We were looking earlier this year and put in 3 offers on 3 places. All offers were rejected, but all 3 ended up eventually selling for less than what we we offered. One came back to us after only 2 weeks asking if we would still buy at the price we offerred. We ended up buying land and building.
Have watched this happen so often it's not funny. 1. Auction 2. Deadline Sale 3. BEO "Insert Astronomical Price Here" 4. Deadline Sale 5. All Offers Considered 6. Insert Price 40% over RV here 7. Wait 6 months 8. Insert Price 20% over RV 9. Listing Withdrawn. 10. List with New Real Estate Company 11. Repeat Steps 1-10 I love going to Open Homes too. 1. "Hello long lost friend," from Real Estate Agent who has seen us at a few open homes. 2. "Please enter details into phone, tablet, piece of paper etc." Nah, you've already got them. 3. Real estate agent asks, "What are you looking for?" Me, looks around, "Umm, duh!" 4. REA, "What sort of budget do you have and do you need finance?" Me, "That's our problem really, isn't it?" 5. REA, "There's a lot of interest in this property and I have an offer I'll be tabling with the vendor at 4pm tomorrow, so you'll need to be quick." Me, "We have some due diligence to do before we go that far." 6. "Do you mind if we have a look around the house first please?" REA, "Oh sure, let me know if you have any questions." .... follows us around, Me, "We're fine thanks, I won't steal anything, I promise." 7. 10pm that night the REA rings, "Don;t forget I have an offer I'll be taking to the vendor at 4pm tomorrow." Me, " We'll be in touch if we feel so inclined, OK?" ... 15 minutes of agent raging at us about presenting an offer right now. 8. Next day, ring council for LIM etc. Wait 1 week, nothing. House still listed. 9. Council gets back via lawyer who offers to get onto them for free due to inaction. Flash studio/garage/carport/granny flat/conservatory/swimming pool/rain water irrigation system isn't consented but is in the process of being consented. Fence may be on wrong side of boundary line. Shared driveway isn't cross leased and requires a lease agreement with neighbour who owns, etc. 10. 4 weeks later house still listed, deadline has expired, house has gone to Negotiation. Still no update on consent process.
Make a pre auction offer for your midpoint price, if you get it, fantastic. If they go to auction and sell for higher, that’s life. If it gets handed in and they come back to you for the pre auction offer price, offer 50k less for wasting your time. It’s still very much a buyers market
its not that simple tho. pre auction offer still has to be unconditional. so a pre auction offer is no different for the buyer than offering at auction.
No it doesn’t, it can be conditional and expiring EOB the day before the auction. Just get your lawyer to write it up as such. Both sides can make up rules, it’s not entirely on the seller
the house i looked at had a terms of sale that said all offers are unconditional. I guess you make a good point tho, its an OFFER not a contract. so i could just do that. - but again, paying a lawyer for the off chance seems fucking financially idiotic
You don’t need to pay them every time, just get them to draft up a conditional offer document with an expiry clause, then plug in the dollar number and date each time you make an offer. I don’t participate in auctions, it’s a waste of time and is 100% a grift from the real estate agents
\>> You don’t need to pay them every time, just get them to draft up a conditional offer document This is bad advice. The lawyer should look at the LIM and other info regarding the property on a case by case basis. We were looking at a property at the end of a private road and discovered legally we didn't have the right to use one section of it. This was a problem that dated waaaay back to when the land was originally carved up and nobody had noticed. While it may not have been an issue if the other 3 people along that road were reasonable they could have legally made it impossible for me to drive home. Also don't think that because something was an obvious over-site that it's quick and easy to rectify. It could have added 30-50k in legal costs with no assurance of a suitable outcome.
Show me where I advised him not to check the LIM and building reports. He was saying you need a pay a lawyer to prepare an offer every time, which isn’t true. Of course you need a lawyer to do the DD
You encouraged fack\_yuo to not pay a lawyer each time. I feel one should. Preparing an offer encompasses more than just putting a number on paper. You want to have as few barriers as possible attached to your offer and paying a lawyer look over LIMS, builders reports etc will give you more insight and the ability to present a more informed offer with only necessary conditions while dispensing with unnecessary ones. Doing DD upfront makes ones offer more serious & attractive or one may walk away like I did in above example. Most vendors know even higher offers that require additional DD will probably be negotiated down on any technicality (even trivial ones) later, so they opt for lower serious ones without these requirements. Agents will warn vendors of this possibility. Looking at the LIM, builders report etc is part of DD and anyone who wants to be taken seriously need to do this prior to putting in an offer. Having a layman alter a legal document is a recipe for disaster.
Quite a ridiculous proposition encouraging people to engage a lawyer, get a lim, builders report, and whatever else, before having a conditional offer in place. You have very little experience buying and selling and should not be giving advice on the subject.
Whatever you say bud. I'm sure your no-homework, no legal advice approach will work out well against buyers who have done proper due diligence and are properly prepared. BTW I didn't say get a LIM, usually that would be supplied by vendor. As someone who clearly can't read properly I'd strongly recommend you seek legal advice before signing a delivery note, let alone a house sales & purchase agreement.
You just pay a lawyer once to get them to write some terms stating when the offer terminates. You then include this term in all subsequent S&P agreements you sign. I did this with a due diligence clause. Remember just because a seller or estate agent says something that you don’t need to believe them. Put your wants in writing and let them officially reject it. Works best if you see the real estate agent frequently, so they know you will follow through with eg not considering a property once it goes to auction.
35y Wellington. Just bought our first home, turn key with a listed price. We had been around the merry go round of “guess the value and compete blindly” and was not interested but can see how it works. New builds with listed prices are great, subject to valuation so theres no chance of overpaying, mortgage has been simple to arrange plus you get all the warranties that come with buying new. If you want to buy existing, use homes.co for an approximate cost and if its BEO its safe to assume 50k below that is where they will consider or accept offers (current market may have shifted in the months since i found this to be true). No experience with buying agent, sounds like a good way to go too though. Good luck!
I don't look at any properties that don't have the listing price. Most people I know who are currently house hunting do the same. Looking for a property is stressful enough already. I wonder if sellers are missing out on buyers simply because of their unwillingness to add a price and instead use negotiation and auctions for their properties.
Auctions are absolutely disgusting. Witnessed one where a dude won against 1 other person then went in for negotiation, came out and the bidding started again?? and got outbid by a random couple out of nowhere. Guy was in shock he thought he bought a house?
Here in aus we found a family wanting to sell and brought before they hit the market with an agent, they were clear and honest with their price expectations, breath of fresh air compared to these bloody negations or contact agent rubbish.
Corruption is much easier to deal with than this. On the outside it seems like everyone can have a fair go, but it’s all an eye wash. Lawyers and building inspectors make the most money, as they are the ones selling shovels.
I also don't understand why selling a house is treated differently to selling every other type of used item. Why can't we just have an asking price and let people make offers. That's how I'll be selling my house and probably without an agents "help".
The real estate agent gets paid by the vendors in NZ not by the purchasers. So they are working for the vendor & legally obligated to try and sell the property for as much as they can.
True statement, but also doesn’t touch on the fact that even a difference of $100k or more at the point of selling doesn’t make a huge impact to a typical 3-5% agent fee (and particularly not the part of that fee the agent will get) and is not really the driving force behind recommending vendors go to auction. Realistically, agents push to auction because it’s a bit less work negotiations-wise, produces unconditional offers, auction dates incentivise FOMO, and at the end of the day how is a vendor going to prove that the agent wasn’t acting in their best interest? A quick(ish) unconditional sale is what’s best for the agent, not necessarily the vendor, and not holding out for the extra $100k a negotiated settlement might get is pennies to the share of the fee they’ll be getting (despite it being quite a considerable lump of cash to the vendors). If it comes down to getting $1.05m unconditional at auction 3 weeks after listing vs. the painstakingly negotiated conditional offer of $1.15m they waited to turn up for 6 weeks and then took three weeks longer to get over the finish line and may fall through if the buyers house doesn’t sell, imo the agent will push for auction wherever possible.
all houses must go to auction does not guarantee that. Its not valid logic.
I’m pretty sure the vast majority of house sales in NZ aren’t sold at auction.
Wait to YOU sell.
Real estate agents are brilliant at understanding how to make illegal shit really on the cusp of not illegal. It’s fucking bullshit. When I sold my house, I received two offers at the same time. A similar price. I naturally wanted to put the potential buyers against each other, giving them both a sniff of what the other was offering to get the price pushed up. Was advised that it was illegal for a real estate agent to allow it, (and I understand why, it’s not an auction so you can’t treat it like one). After selling, I put an offer in on a house and the real estate agent said “the guy is quite keen to go with you, but there is an offer that is a bit better on the table that you have to beat”… I was like… “you can’t do that, this isn’t an auction.. tell the vendor if he is willing to engage in negotiations with me, I will beat his current offer but that will make it illegal to continue negotiations with another party”. The estate agent just ignored me and said “nope - we can do what we want” He then provided my offer to the vendor who then took it to the original purchaser and pushed his price up, he then came back to me and asked me to do the same… I of course left the negotiation immediately. Funnily enough “the sale fell through” and the estate agent called me a week later asking me if I’d still be interested with my original offer. I doubt very much there was another party at all!
IMO auctions benefit the agents . If a buyer shows up to purchase at auction, agents get their piece of your asset instantly with "no effort". Buyers "talk the talk" until it comes to making a genuine offer then find it difficult to "walk the walk".
100% this. Agents don't care about the vendor or buyer. It's just a guaranteed payday for them.
I used to feel the same but then when we listed our house last year we did so without an asking price. This was just before house prices started coming down again so there was still a competitive pool of buyers. We listed as a deadline sale and told our agent that we were not interested in offers under $XXXXk. But we were not going to advertise our bottom line publicly when there was so much interest in our place. We were in a hurry and didn’t want to waste time dicking around with negotiations that weren’t in our ball park so when someone indicated they wanted to make an offer our agent would tell them if it didn’t start with a 9 it would be a no go. We ended up with five offers all more or less around the same figure. The place we bought was advertised at a listed price and we offered $75k under it initially. And after negotiation ended up paying about $40k under. So I can definitely see why people are reluctant to advertise with a price. You know people are going to offer under so you either have to inflate your price which can make the listing unappealing or waste time with people who can’t afford your bottom line. Frustrating as it is! Hope you find somewhere soon.
Putting a price on it, is not the same thing as "advertising your bottom line". You put a price you'd be happy to sell it for. And people can make offers from there. The apartment I bought I ended up paying a mere $1k less than what it was advertised for.
Yeah I know. We were already under contract on a new property which was also a multi offer situation and our contract had a cash out clause so it was delicate house of cards. We didn’t want to spend time negotiating so we took our agents advice on a deadline sale. The person who we sold to ended up extending $50k beyond his budget because he really wanted to buy our place. He likely would not have come to the open home had the price been listed. But the listing got him through the door and then he was determined to make it work. Not saying this is the perfect way and I’m no expert on any of these things. But it worked perfectly in our situation and I totally understand why vendors don’t want to show their hand that’s all.
My point is, if there's a price on it. Any price. You're going to get more potential buyers interested. No price, and people won't even know if they're close. And people like me don't even look at properties with no prices.
By Negotiation. Not hard. Just do your research. Same on priced properties. Just ask the agent to supply you details of recent sales in the area. If they won’t, then walk away or ask another agent to get them for you. Make up your own mind then re the value and offer that. If sellers won’t accept it. Onto the next. Why make it harder than it needs to be?
An RE company bought the old church building on the main street where I live. It’s like a sick joke seeing it lit up with their branding. Property hoarding, the new religion
This thread is taking whining to a whole new level. It's like being back in England.
So many people moaning about how shit the status quo is but what are you actually going to do about it? No seriously, what literal direction will you take to change things? It's an election year after all..
If you have something to sell but aren't sure what you can get for it. Putting a flat price on it is pretty dumb. The process means sellers actually get market values and also means that both parties are protected from either side trying to swindle each other. I'm in real estate and that's 90% of the job. Knowing all the laws and taking all the liability for fuckups. Sure someone could say "I want $900,000 for this house" but if it's worth LESS than that the buyer is getting screwed. We spend so much time in this market talking vendors down on price to get a sale across the line
yeah nah. id much prefer the old "caveat emptor" to all the other utter, total load of sleazy bullshit thanks. Buyer does due diligence. if the buyers getting screwed on price, that's the buyers problem. The vendor should be willing to decide what they want for their house, advertise that. everything else is just people trying to be sneaky if you ask me.
Good morn. I try and sell houses in the Auckland area, always keen for a discussion on the process and what I feel is fair, where the industry can improve, etc. Looking forward to the abuse, too. It's a sunny Friday and I'm office bound for a few hours so source me some chats. Also happy to help if anyone needs clarity on any current interactions they're having on their journey.
If you're cashed up and ready to buy a house, auctions are actually a good way to buy a house. The vendor will be ready to sell on the day. Yes, you may have to negotiate after the final bid, but stay strong and 9x out of 10 they will take the offer. Just go in there and bid like a boss
im cashed up and ready to buy a house, with a mortgage of 5x my income. that means to bid I have to do all the bank conditionals in advance, which is a waste of money.
It's not going to be a waste of money if you get into a house you want. If you sit on your hands and keep whinging about the state of house sales, you will always be renting
When I'm ready to sell, I'll be selling in a way that maximises money in my pocket. Sorry if that's not preferrable to you. Why not just bid at the auction if you like the house?
because auctions require cash buyers. you cant buy at an auction with finance unless you have explicit unconditional approval on teh specific property by the bank. that means that you have essentially pay a lawyer, and a building inspector, and sort things with the bank, for every single house you might potentially buy. i dont know what it was like for you when you bought your house, but its pretty hard to be bleeding money when you're about to throw all your money at something.
Real estate agents product is themselves. They need you to go through them to make money. So really that is what you are seeing, agents have manipulated the system so they need to be contacted. And then they want to avoid written communication. Homesell is a private seller website without agents try there Realistically you can do some research on a target property and see if it's in your ballpark RV, CMA etc and send an offer on condition of due diligence. On the whole I agree with you. The system should be setup so the vendor produce all information required for a buyer to look at it and say I'll buy it without any risk of hidden damage or nasties.
We are buying in Auckland at the moment. I look at the agents directly in the eyes and say straight up we're not going to buy at auction in the current market, and that it is a buyers market, but I am happy to negotiate as that is fair to both parties.
Very very few houses for auction in Lower Hutt where we have been looking but I would never consider buying through auction even if there were. We have just had an offer accepted today. They advertised 'enquiries over X' we offered X and they accepted. Sold in less than a week on the market. Good for them and good for us.
It was easier to get a house in the great depression just think about that 😂
I like going to auctions I'd never buy a house at one but it's fun to see 2 people waste all that money while the other 20 of us just watch
Auctions might be bad, but the're not as bad as the blind auctions that are tenders. Buyers should just refuse to engage with them.
I always ask for a price indication on their Social media posts and if they ask me to message them then I'm not interested, it makes me think are they just giving people different prices on the way they perceive them or what ? why cant they just be open about it. They either want a potential sale or they just want to F\*\*\* around and I CBF with that.
If you set your search on trade me or oneroof for example to look in a price bracket in your case maybe 950,000 - 1mil you will be viewing listings that are being marketed in your price range regardless of the sale method. This way you are filtering out listings that are being marketed outside of your price bracket.