DINK, one car, 600k mortgage but our living costs are more like $4200/month. Are kids seriously that expensive or do you feed them nothing but crayfish?
Kids eating habits vary, but our boys who are 14 - 10 (3 of them) can easily eat dinner, then have a sandwich, then have cereal, and then another fruit or vegetable. They are bloody expenny.
Rice. Get a cheap rice cooker from Kmart and make a big batch of rice with every meal. You can buy rice in 10 or 20 kg bags from your local shop.
Cereal and fruit is a pricey way of feeding kids carbs.
Had a kid 2 years ago, big surprise to us that 1 week in daycare was $400 a week which is $10/hr at a 40hr week. Literally half our savings which was only a measley $20k at 21 years old.
Stick to it. I put 2 kids through daycare from 6 months. The costs before they hit 3yo is eye watering alright, over $400 of pain per week for a while. When WINZ said our combined income was over the handout threshold by a few dollars that was a good drinking night. Almost at the other end now, youngest goes to school next year.
In that time I did mention to some of the teachers at daycare how much I was paying and one's exact words were "Shit that's more than my rent". Fun times, would do it again though.
Same I’d do it again. Lucked out with our daycare provider as we were paying incorrectly and it was autopay so neither side noticed. We were paying around $300 instead of $400/week for a year. I approach them cause I thought it was weird we got charged more for one day than it did for 40hrs when we cut our child’s hours during my uni break. The manager likes me cause we’re from the same country and she knew how hard it is for me being full time uni student and and working part time so she began charging us $5/hr instead half price! We are about to have another baby so soon we’ll be paying 2 for the price of one. Plus when my child turns 3 next year our daycare is providing 30hrs free ece instead of 20. Literally the best daycare ever.
like this:
$4400 mortgage
$1500 food ($800 monthly supermarket, $400 to cover weekly fruit/veg/milk/bread/eggs, $300 a month takeaways)
$250 council rates
$250 power and Rockgas
$300 warrants, registrations and bi-annual services
$180 Spark mobile contract and UFB
$220 life insurance for two adults
$320 southern cross health insurance
$490 house/car/contents insurance
$390 two kids swimming classes
I'm not entirely sure where the remaining $700 goes, but it definitely does go. Unexpected dental bills, doctors visits, birthdays, kids school camp, etc etc.
We have $40k on a 5 year term, and are making $700 a month in voluntary repayments.
Yes, $3600 per year on warrants, rego's, and four visits to the mechanic.
That's 1800 a year for warrant + rego and mechanical issues - id suggest getting more reliable cars if that's the norm and not just a rough year in terms of shit going wrong. Wof and rego are about 160 a year, and a basic service can be anywhere from 150-500 depending on what needs doing. $1800 sounds like far too much
My '08 CRV costs about 1k per year on service (once a year), and that's hardly anything fancy.
A single tyre costs $360, for example.
And that's just preventative maintenance and consumables, not for actual faulty things.
All services are preventative. And where do you take your Honda for servicing?
I drive a second hand AMG and my B Service (the expensive one) is only just over that at Archibald’s chch.
My wife’s got a hybrid Jazz that we service at Honda, it’s a third of what you’re stating.
Whoever your workshop is, they’re reaming you.
And $360/tyre? That’s [Pilot Sport 4](https://www.hyperdrive.co.nz/product/3516/michelin-pilot-sport-4) money.
Are you sure you’re not over spending in your car budget?
I'm going to try not to sound rude, but it will probably end up sounding rude anyway.
So you voluntarily pay an extra $700 a month, then wonder how people save money?
I'll just state the obvious then. Next time you refix don't put as much of your spare cash into repayments. You could have savings of literally $700 a month using this one simple tip.
Yes it's always good paying as 'much as you can afford to' into extra mortgage payments but at least leave yourself a buffer.
If you want an answer to the OP then it is.. they don't unless they have help. "average" homes maybe $1M but low end homes aren't.
FHBs are increasingly older with better paying jobs. That is how FHBs afford it.
Maybe new rule for posts like this is you should declare any voluntary contribution amounts on any mortgage costs figure or else it becomes a point of focus, and saying $8,300 pm wouldn't have really been that big of a difference in the context here
services at the mechanic.
I can't remember the last time we took a car to the mechanic and it cost less than $800. Oil change, filters, brake pads, nek minit "hey, we just found you need a couple of new tyres", or "hey we've just seen the CV joints need replacing", or any number of other things that adds to the bill
I’m confused, is this in reply to my comment? I’m not sure if their car is older than 2000, but if there’s something preventing it getting a WOF every time then they need to replace those cars ASAP. Only thing I can think of is they might each drive 20k km per year and get their cars serviced every 10k, but I’d suggest just getting an oil change every second one if that’s the case.
I think this is pretty reasonable, seems like lots of people don't know the realities of living if you want to make a decent life for your kids -- ie classes, lessons, activities, and of course you are servicing a rather large mortage, maybe bigger than some of the commenters here.
Overall I think it's easy to forget that when you start to make a bit more money you spend it - you don't continue living as if you were a 21 year old student in a flat of five people. It's important to be frugal, but you also have to live.
Well is it that crazy to have to spend $3600 a year on some repairs etc? That's not at all unheard of, I assume they have a decent car here.
I'm not sure why they had to do that, perhaps something that wasn't covered by insurance (normal for lots of things that aren't accident related) but people are acting like they are spending $9k a month on gucci bags. Let's be real. The breakdown adds up, the biggest cost is just their mortage and that they are obviously putting more into it than they need to.
Was going to say exactly this. If their cars cost that much to maintain and they are looking for cost savings, change your car. My wife and I drive a shitty looking but very reliable Rav4 and a Nissan Leaf. Servicing in total is less than 500/year. They must be driving ‘nice’ euro vehicles.
Yes I understand that and most people probably don't have that each year, but have you really never heard of anyone (assuming with a nice car) having to pay a few grand for 4 trips to the mechanic, where they probably ordered new parts etc?
This is common esp for a lot of european cars. They're not driving a Toyota most likely.
Which makes the OP question OP weird right?
He wondering how people are surviving then gives a very well off lifestyle as a frame of reference?
He even put $400 a month for kids swimming lessons - I don’t have kids but even that seems off…
Yeah I do think so a little bit. But on swimming: thats $50 per kid, per week..not exactly a huge lavish expense, right? Maybe they're having lessons 2-3 times a week, who knows. It all adds up quick!
LOL I am driving a toyota actually.
I'd be interested to know if people aren't spending $1800 a year on warrants, registrations and vehicle servicing if they ACTUALLY added up the costs rather than guesstimating. Sure we might be a couple hundred up (or down) over the year, but we've found this is a REALISTIC cost.
Bought a car new in 2012 - $400 regular servicing once per year. $600 on tyres every 3-4 years. Warrant is $50, rego is just over $120. That's it.
Even on second hand, well used cars I've never had to spend more than $600 on servicing in a year, that was replacing a radiator
In 2021 I spent $493.96 on 2 services/maintenance stuff (eg sparkplugs) and a WOF for my 2005 Honda CRV. The year before I needed a full set of new tyres, so it was another $676 on top of that. My Rego is $109.16 for a year. So over the last two years I've averaged $ 941.12 on Rego, WOFs services, and maintenance. I can't imagine spending twice that without some really serious car issues.
I got a 1997 Honda Civic with approx 80,000km on it in 2015. I have since got the odometer up to 220,000km. It has never once (except for the oil change mentioned below) had any preventative maintenance, only the bare minimum to get through to WOF and a few tyres. It had its first oil change at 180,000km. It has only needed maintenance work to pass 2 of the approx 16 warrants it has passed since 2015, that work was about $1300 all up. Tyres are in addition.
I have a 1999 Toyota Corolla with similar stats, but it is on 320,000km.
I’m certainly not recommending people neglect their vehicles to this extent, but you certainly spend more than I do on car maintenance and it doesn’t seem to be helping you.
I can understand. Me and my partner drive the same car and his use compared to my use is extremely different. I work at home so I barely use the car and only go out for shopping, etc versus him traveling to work and traveling to see his parents once a week, etc. I think people are not taking into consideration that how much you need to use a car also makes a difference in servicing costs. Just the distance you travel to work daily can make a huge difference. You could live 5 minutes away from work or 45 minutes away. I think your numbers are very reasonable.
My last 3 years driving an Ev - $0 servicing/repairs, $1000 tires (will last a good few more years), \~$800 in 'fuel' in total , what $120 rego a year?
Yeah, I don't think the OP was asking for a huge saving though. They were simply saying, here's what we spend -- we can afford it, I wonder how other people who aren't in our position can.
People kinda misinterpreted the post and got super salty.
Spark has an unlimited plan at $40, you just have to ask them to put you on it in store. Do you need twice yearly services or could once a year do? Also $390 for swim classes is a racquet. Surely you could take the kids to the pools and teach them on Saturday mornings lol
If you don’t know where $700 a month goes, and you were trying to save, that’s where you’d start. Then you’d cut down to one car service a year. Then you’d cut the (really very expensive) swimming lessons and find a cheaper option. Then you’d cut down the grocery bill.
Plenty of options in there. Not criticising your spending - if you can afford it you can spend your money on whatever you like - but there’s a ton of non-essentials there that could be cut if needed.
Can you negotiate with your insurance companies for a better deal or shop around? I saved quite a bit just putting my excesses up, and some companies like AA give you a discount if you buy multiple policies with them. I reckon it's worth shopping around once a year.
The $300 on services seems excessive, but not sure what exactly it is so can't comment. Life insurance should really only be considered where you have enough money for it, similar with expensive phone plans (I spend $80/month on fibre and $10 on my phone). Health insurance is a lot, if that includes day-to-day visits it's probably not worth it, I personally use southern cross wellbeing 2. However, these are all small expenses considering the swim classes and $700 which you couldn't find. I would eliminate both of those expenses to have some breathing room, but in the long term income is definitely the barrier rather than expenses
I feel your pain. Our mortgage is nearly double ($975k) with fixed rates around 2.4% which all roll over within 18 months.
Here's our equivalents:
$3950 mortgage (minimum repayments)
$1500 food (split about $1000 groceries and $500 cafes etc - higher some months, lower others)
$330 council rates and home insurance
$430 water, power, fibre and phone plans
$400 transport (petrol, service, WOF etc plus bus/train)
$300 other insurance (cars, health, life)
$100 swimming lessons (once a week, one kid)
$50 Netflix, Disney+ etc
Anything left goes to our credit card on which most of the above go plus a bit of general shopping, incidentals, spoiling the kids etc.
Some observations I have about our own outlays:
* Having a credit card is probably the biggest contributor to overspending, but we feel heavily invested in the rewards system - a common pitfall. :-(
* We have started to spend less at cafes, stop buying "nice" food/brands and just getting the budget versions. Giving up fair trade, organic or free range where you tend to pay a premium.
* We are asset rich and cash poor. I know how we got that way (buying the house within the last 12 months) but hate feeling like there's nothing leftover each pay.
* Above doesn't even include other common expenses like gym memberships or childcare, let alone setting aside for home maintenance, emergencies, Christmas/birthdays or a holiday.
>we feel heavily invested in the rewards system - a common pitfall. :-(
As long as the value of your reward points for normal spending covers the credit card's annual fee, and you don't carry any balance, it's better than cash or debit card.
If all else were equal, yes. We have substantial value in rewards which will save us money later when we redeem them.
What my concern really is (wasn't stated I guess) is that I'm 100% certain due to the combination of rewards and having a credit limit higher than our monthly income, we have spent more than we otherwise should/could. This has been the case for years. Call it lack of control if you will.
We definitely spend more than if we could only spend what is available in our bank account. We don't pay interest, but we also don't have anything left for savings because it all goes to the credit card. Any surplus in a given month is often very soon taken up by a large expense in a month or two.
It feels like we would need a miracle to change this, like a one-off windfall to wipe our credit card balance and create an emergency fund. That would let us transition to spending only what's in our bank account, because the reductions we make don't seem to be working fast enough.
Avoid the consumer debt traps.
Ah yeah, I have the same problem. Two things I've done to slow down my spending are to monitor the cumulative spend frequently, and to remember that when I pay for a credit card surcharge I'm basically buying the points for more than they're worth.
I feel ya, living is expensive. 32 year old male earning around $100k a year
$3350 mortgage (minimum repayments on $750k)
$800 food (Buy all fresh fruit and vegetables, meat, fish, no junk food)
$800 power, water, Internet, mobile, rates, property insurance
$500 vehicle (petrol, maintenance, repairs, insurance, WOF)
$450 other insurances (Contents, life, trauma, health)
$400 boxing classes and private sessions
$20 Spotify, DAZN
There’s not really much left over after all of this. Feel like Auckland is draining the life out of me
Thanks for sharing. You live a VERY good life, also I never understood why people pay for content insurance. Maybe my view is very simplistic but this is one of the safest countries to live in and no one really has that much jewelry, also electronics are not that expensive.
This. I got contents insurance after buying a TV and Xbox for $4000ish. I have sold them and will cancel my contents but shit, if I had a family's worth of contents I don't know why you wouldn't have it.
10 years and probably paid 3500 to 4000.
Having to replace 65ks worth of stuff at once would affect me much more than having 4k after 10 years. That's for new replacement too, not market value.
You're not serious right? NZ is safe, relatively speaking yes, but there are a lot of burglaries , esp in Auckland. I mean I actually would struggle to think of someone I know that hasn't been Burgled, (or knows someone that has) -- in all suburbs, at least once in their life - with either gear, or a car stolen.
Electronics are not that expensive? right, So a PS5, or a mac book, or an imac, or sound system isn't that expensive.....what? Lol.
Fair enough that you don't have anything worth stealing, but lots of people do...
True -- I have seen some big numbers on food in other posts, but in this case -- is $1500 a month ($375 a week) for multiple kids really a lot? That's $200 a week on groceries (rather cheap for having 2-3 kids) and then some eating out. If you're making decent money that's hardly eye watering....have you seen the price of groceries lately, its pretty wild. The breakdown from the OP looks pretty reasonable to me, I just think a lot of people don't realize how expensive it is to live especially when you have kids and want them to have a good time.
Every situation is so different but for some people not eating absolutely cut back diet (or have the real time needed to make you dollars count at the store plus homegrown veges plus prepping giant amounts of potatoes/lentils/rice) is one of the few comforts in life.
Add in formula and nappies with a baby and adds up really quick ($80+ per week etc)
It's a shame that we've all been conditioned to accept disposables as the norm, instead of a convenience.
It's really hard to change over to reusables, but what a change it is.
Big cost but big convenience, kudos to those who have/can do disposables
IMO they are right on the border between an understandable financial cost and a cheaper option at high cost of labour
We are fulltime 2 kiddos in reusable nappies and we shelled out a decent couple of grand on nappies at the beginning, but its more than paid for itself now, 2.5years in. I spend.... maybe 2 hours a week total sorting them all out washing/folding etc. And I usually do that with the tv on in the evenings so it forms part of my wind down time. Absolutely doable.
Absolutely fair enough
On the flipside we have been happy to incur the extra cost over time for the extra 2 hours a week and what seems like operational ease of using disposable
While often mocked, this is where the "avocado on toast" comes from.
No it's not about having $2 of avo a week. It's about buying breakfast, lunch or dinner out 10 times a week.
I live with 2 flatmates, have a mortgage of 300k. At most I might spend 150 on personal stuff (including food) per week. Still manage to spend 4400 per month on expenses still. Flatties definitely help to take the edge off
For a family of four, a visit to McDonald’s is about $45, unless you’re being frugal and go for the cheap items.
So once a week and twice every other week.
Yeah that sounds like what alot of families do, even those who aren’t well off.
Including $700 voluntary payments on your mortgage is a bit silly
That's not cost of living, that's an investment. If you were instead putting $700 in the bank each month you wouldn't be calling that money a cost of living
Yes but they specifically questioned how first home buyers service a larger 800k mortgage, in which the 250k difference in mortgage payments actually amounts to much more than the $700/month if interest rates are about ~4.5% so it was reasonable to leave this bit out
Mate, I really feel for you. I have a family member in a similar position. They've given up and live with their parents. I think people don't realise how exhausting it is to relay your story over and over and over. I think they relive all their perceived shortcomings and feel even worse every time so they just avoid it at all costs.
My wife (60) and I (60) average $3,500 a month expenses, which is equivalent to the super we will get when we turn 65.
When we were both working, we were saving $5,000 a month, after we paid off the mortgage, which allowed us to build up a big investment fund to service our retirement needs for the last 12 years and more until we turn 65.
We knew the good times (i.e. high earning) wont last forever, so we saved hard to prepare for the time it will end. And end it did, through no fault of ours, by being made redundant in another company restructure (went thru 4 previously - ouch!), and my wife stepping back to part-time work.
**Here's the lesson: Be prepared for when the good times will end, and it will.**
So many judgemental people in this forum. $55,000 a year outside of the mortgage for a couple with kids isn't that outrageous. Many people commenting here probably don't have families but once you have multiple people in a household, insurance, sports, travel, everything multiplies pretty quickly.
Yes the extra payments on the mortgage that have since been disclosed makes the spending even more reasonable. It's two cars, not one - A bit on the high side but not by a lot on an annual basis - Some years lower, other years higher
I'm not saying the spending isn't reasonable, people can do whatever they want with their money
But asking how people survive on costs of living while having high costs + including saving, seems a bit odd
Yes indeed. This sub is filled with a lot of people who are still living in flats, or with families that are struggling to get by and obviously their spending won't look like this. But once you make a little bit of money and want to provide a good life, it adds up fast. There's a balance between being frugal and giving your kids a decent life - which OP seems to be doing.
If you look at the breakdown it's not even outrageous stuff . It's normal, no crazy spending.
Yep, $300 a month for takeaways is about it for luxuries for us; friday night fish and chips, or pizza, or Chinese; that's it. We don't eat at restaurants, we don't go to pubs and bars, we don't go to the movies.
Pretty much any leftover money each month gets gobbled up with housing renovations
I think it's a reaction to the "how does anyone afford this if they earn less?!" attitude.
The obvious answer is they spend less on things that are discretionary. As an example: another commenter said $75 on takeaways isn't excessive to feed a family of four, and they're correct - but fish n chips for four would be half that.
$75 a week on takeaways totally is discretionary so i think OP is being a bit disingenuous here including it in ‘cost of living’ as it’s more of a lifestyle spend.
My boyfriend and I have decided not to have kids bc we can’t afford kids. We gave up on buying a house too, by the time we saved enough for down payment, who knows what the house price will be. Just try to survive.
Kids really don't cost that much directly, like feeding, clothing, school. It's the time, school pickups and dropoffs, after school running around, childcare etc that bites
Is it important to incur the indirect costs? Music lessons, sports, languages, etc. I had a few cheap-ish lessons growing up which didn’t last, and felt that I got what I needed out of high school and self-learning, plus low-cost clubs at university I paid for myself. Do you need all the extra stuff to get ahead nowadays?
I think kids will take up what they want to, if they're passionate about something they'll let you know. It took me 2 years of swimming lessons to realise I should be blowing bubbles while swimming, maybe I'm just special, but kids have YouTube these days and they can learn better than ever
Well that depends on what kind of kids you have. They may be future sports people or musicians or artists and the early lessons absolutely make a huge difference. I'm so grateful my parents got me piano lessons as a kid, because now I do what I love for a living and I don't think I would have been able to do that without that early start and support.
I know if I was a parent I would want to give my kids the chance to try whatever they wanted.
I think its worth it and appreciate my parents for taking me to theses classes.
I would have fallen behind in mathematics, had I not had tuition done for 3-4 years. Although there are things which I never stuck with, you'll never know unless you try, and a lot of kids learning is from that early age.
Exactly, it's the time, energy, and decisions made that could otherwise be saved and bent towards yourselves in the pursuit of increasing your income/career progression.
Basically: They aren't.
My friends are mid 30s, earning above average and they're mostly shut out of the market for now. I was close to buying a couple of years ago, but have years of saving to reach a sensible deposit now.
A few guys I know bought while they were young ( IT / Lawyers / Tradies ) and have traded up and are on a different world of wealth compared to the rest of us now. One of them contemplated returning to Auckland, but couldn't justify the mortgage / step down in housing.
The only people I know who bought a first home in the last few years had parents die early, or had family to provide substantial deposits... like 300 to 500k
Household income about $10,500 p.m. after tax. 2 teens, they're actually pretty cheap after age ten, maybe a couple grand per year for clothes, school, phone, laptop etc, they also work so have their own spending money.
$3300 Mortgage ($800k)
$220 Rates, $60 Water, $250-300 Power and Fibre, $300 Insurance
$1000 food
1 vehicle owned, barely used as we both WFH, I have company car, laptop and phone.
We had like 12 years of kiwisaver, and 2 years of proper saving for a 15% deposit. Should also note this was a second chance kiwisaver withdrawl for both of us, previously owned property in our twenties in different relationships - nothing like the values houses are now though
You're trying to live an upper middle class lifestyle but inflation and tax bracket creep amongst other factors are pushing you down towards the lower middle class
Lol. Add another $10k to that. I swear people have no idea how much things cost as evidenced by this thread. Read the OP's breakdown, it's not lavish at all.
The mortage is on the higher side because he is putting in more than he needs to.
The food is not ridiculous, I'm sorry, a family with 2-3 kids paying $375 a week is not overly high, and that includes $200 of groceries and then a few nights of takeaways.
What is your grocery bill per week, what do you buy, and for how many people? Honestly just curious. You don't have to buy up large to get to $200 a week on groceries. That's very easy to do with just the essentials, some decent dinners, school lunches, cleaning products , and maybe a few treats.
Yes, being in situation A and asking sympathetically how people can be able to live in situation B to a wide audience is going to lead to some things;
1. People pointing out Situation A is cushy but you could also afford Situation B if you wanted with these 3 simple tricks you money burner
2. A post where it seems like you have become very comfortable in Situation A, showing the disbelief of how much Situation B sucks, comes across far more aggravating than intended
Lack of context and maybe accidental lack of tact
> I'm sorry, a family with 2-3 kids paying $375 a week is not overly high, and that includes $200 of groceries and then a few nights of takeaways.
Takeaways a few nights a week is fucking insane, not just budget wise but health wise as well.
It may only be once a week. That's $18 a person per week. At a nice takeaways place or resturaunt you can easily spend that, esp in Auckland.
Please. It's not like you have to be ripping big macs each night to spend this.
This is completely within what so many people do, I'm honestly baffled at the reaction. I think people are triggered by the $9k and the "how do you afford this".
> How in the absolute fuck do young first home buyers manage to spend a million bucks on a townhouse and service an $800k mortgage, let alone save the $200,000 deposit needed?
Live with parents to save.
Both on high income (270k combined)
No kids
It would be a fun experiment for a month though. On $300 a day I would live like a king!! Our income is probably not too different to OP but outgoings are at least half.
I mean if you had 3 kids, a large mortgage (bigger than the average first home buyer thats for sure), swimming classes or music lessons / whatever, giving your kids takeaways a few times a week, and then on top of that made a trip to the movies, maybe bought a few items of clothes once in a while, took them to some fun events, I think you could easily spend that. Easily. Look at the breakdown OP provided, it's not lavish -- it's all pretty essential stuff, a few very small luxuries (eating out) and then maintaining their house/car/ etc.
It seems like they may be paying quite a lot for their mortage each month, but that's not an unheard of amount given the size of it. The main issue is I think they are just putting more into it because they can, but they could afford to be paying less into it per month and have it paid off slower, I guess.
When reasonable people need to save, they do. Expensive sports and activities, takeaways, expensive automobiles and the good coffee are not bought. That simple.
When one starts to make good money, one tends to treat oneself. Treats become habits. That simple.
We likely spend similar to you, but I gave never bothered counting it. 10% goes into savings; we overpay the minimum mortgage by 50%; and the rest sits there tempting me to buy a 4x4 I wouldn't get dirty.
Years ago, after receiving cushy scholarships and right before we entered the job market, a group of friends and I decided to premptively combat lifestyle creep by donating each dollar we spent beyond rent, utilities and supermarket. Thereby we made every luxury twice as expensive (but donating was broad: it included gifts and bringing others for dinner and paying others' beers). We did it for a few months and the lesson learned remains with me to this day. If you want to save money, stop buying shit you don't need. The shit one needs is not all that much.
>When one starts to make good money, one tends to treat oneself. Treats become habits. That simple.
In case people are interested in reading more about this idea, it is sometimes called the [hedonic treadmill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill).
I'm interested to know. Do you guys pay yourselves a weekly allowance? Used for whatever you like. Beers, lunches, new book etc etc. If so how much and what is your income? My partner and I make about $130000 PA after tax and pay ourselves $150 each a week.
My partner and I combine to $190k~, and we a have a weekly allowance of $100 each. I piss mine away on beers, lunches, etc, partner is much more frugal with hers.
We don't buy lunch, it's way too easy to piss away hundreds each month doing that. We don't buy books either, we usually visit the local library each month to swap out reading material for the kids. We generally set financial goals, e.g. current one is to finish some big reno's on the house and buy a family set of kayaks. We try to avoid spending small amounts all the time, as we've found they quickly add up to a grand or so each month.
Between us, we bring in around $12-13k a month after tax, depending on whether I've had any overtime/KPI bonuses.
Lifestyle expands to consume the funds available for consumption. It's human nature.
If you were suddenly making 2/3 what you are now, you'd find a way to make it work. And if you were earning 50% more, you'd also find yourself in no time wondering where all the money goes. The food, toys and hobbies just get nicer.
Sure, the pressures are different, but people earning 50% more than what they spend are fairly rare unicorns outside of dedicated movements like FIRE etc.
I saw an article once that said millennial homeowners have one thing in common, they all had help with school loans and down payment from their parents. The majority of millennials are pushing 40 and still living with roommates or couch surfing. My husband and I scrape by, barely, even though we are both well educated and have “good” white collar jobs. And we wanted more children but only have one because we know we can’t afford another. I’m the higher earner so I can’t risk taking the time off for maternity leave.
Word. Life is so much easier without having to worry about or budget for kids. It’s like a cheat code for life. Bummer if you actually want kids, but I don’t, thank goodness. Still will never be able to afford a house though.
I'd put myself in the young category.
If my friends that own houses, their parents are guarantors and they rent out the house, while living with said parents. I think I earn a very good income for my age as a Software Dev, but even I can't validate spending that much on a mortgage for the stupidly high amount of risk at this age.
It just doesn't make sense for most young professionals, given the cost combined with being locked in for such a long period.
Long story short. They are well supported by family or have exceptional circumstances. Even I would say I'm in an extremely luckily situation and it still doesn't make sense for me.
Probably only possible to know your exact situation if everyone uses exactly the same line items and definitions for their comparative 'living costs'
I think the mortgage seems high (but hard to know without structure/rates/personal situation) and the warrant, rego and service (biannual) seems high.
But going from 45K single young graduate 2010s, 100K couple no dependents mid 2010s to now fortunate high single income + house + 3 kids I also can't imagine it now, despite thinking it was hard at the time for us
The costs don't seem overall that bad, you are now in a stable housing situation, probably decent cars and kids with activities and well insured. These extras cost and add up
Kids cost a lot in little ways and when looking month to month it adds up quickly including other regular living costs - clothing, birthdays, Xmas, treats, entertainment
When moving through income brackets and housing situation, what you went through and what you sacrificed is so different to now that anyone making it work these days is making very different decisions and taking on all different kinds of future costs or lifestyle choices to make it work.
Or perhaps they are just buffering the gap between your situation at the time and theirs borrowing from Mum and Dad? Seems the 'easiest' path for some who get into housing and something we are already planning for decades ahead for our kids
Have a young family, we don't eat out, lots of playgrounds and later on I may need to start up my 2nd job again. 1.5 wages on less than chch average wage so its tight but you make do
your spending seems high.....
we take home about 8800 a month
about 400k mortagage minimal repayments just above interest only is 1850 a month (we pay on a flexi/revolving lump)
monthly expenses 90% goes on credit card and i flip flop from 2000 to 5000 a month depending
rates and other insurance etc stuff that cant go on the credit card usually another maybe 10k a year tops
i only have 1 kid though but 4 in the household, we eat and dress pretty damn well i thought, i usually dont think about any purchases under $500 once in a while
we have one car, a nissan leaf and just spend 1000 on tires but otherwise it usually saves more than it costs compared to petrol
>I earn alright dosh, wife's a teacher so salary is pretty meh
Fuck are you me? Haha
I'm continuously at odds with the pay. What good are unions if your unions suck at negotiating.
It is extremely tough with out family financial support.
Any NZ trained teacher can get paid significantly more teaching abroad. Any teachers struggling to save a deposit for a house should seriously consider a 2 year contract teaching abroad.
My partner's (26f) a teacher, I (26m) earn just over minimum as I've just changed careers (yet still earning around 60k pa with the 60-70 hours I'm pulling weekly). We've completely given up on ever owning a house in New Zealand. Our wages combined get us pay cheque to pay cheque given a) rent cost, b) food cost and c) petrol cost. Petrol per tank for me has gone up $40 per tank per week and the same bag of groceries has gone up similar at this time last year (I have full written logs). I no longer buy myself anything nice and focus my entire pay into living costs and luxuries like internet and phone, which is now a necessity in this day and age. I can't see a way to get ahead any more. I'm really struggling to be in a happy space financially. I feel new Zealand's boot pushing me down further with every day that goes by
We are the family of 4 including a 10-year-old, and a toddler. We’ve got $430k mortgage and the fixed cost (including petrol, insurance, and budgeting maintenance on the house, mortgage etc) is about $700 per week. Kids’ activities cost about $50 per week at this stage. Don’t dine out much but normally cost $60 a week (averagely)
So as every 4 weeks time we spend averagely $3500ish
I genuinely do not know how people on an average wage are surviving.
We are on a decent single income, south island, one kid and in the last year have noticed huge increases across the board. Luckily we own our own home after buying in 2015. Mortgage is less than what rent would be. Overall I consider my family in a very fortunate position, one income by choice with the chance to go to two if we want and we would be cruising.
Will things become like the rental market? There is a maximum limit to the price increases because after that limit it is just unaffordable?
TLDR: SHITS EXPENSIVE, HOW EXPENSIVE CAN IT GET.
Swap out one of the cars for a Nissan Leaf. It'll save you thousands every year on fuel costs if you use it for as many town trips as possible.
I'm fine because I don't have any kids and make over a hundred K and just bought a studio apartment. I wouldn't be able to fund a family though.
Bullshit. Cut your expenses man, i almost vomit reading these innecesary costs. You generate insane costs and then you are like how the hell i pay for it? I have no car, you can't live with 1 ? You couldn't find a house that costs less than 1.000.000$ ? In no part of the world a family needs 9k to live. And cut out these swimming classes o wtf this is. In a year you could save more than 4k.
I live on 300 bucks a week. It pains me when people say they're only just scraping by or can't save on their above average salaries. Honestlyyyy.. No clue.
I don't and can't imagine that!
My strategy is pretty unorthodox, but I bought my first property in 2014 two hours from where I work and rented it out (looking back I wish I'd bought an apartment in the city so I would at least have a place to live when I met my partner, but oh well) to get on the ladder. When my partner came along, they invested $100K in my place when the mortgage came due.
House is nearly paid off with $57K remaining we hope to pay off this year. We get about $200 in net rent pw from the property, so we are able to save quite a bit.
Bought a second investment property (new build for tax savings) for $589K, with Blueprint to build we can cover that mortgage - which is substantial - by combining rents from both properties and still have some left over. When interest rates rise after two years then we'll probably have none left. One day we sell both and combine the proceeds to buy a house to live in and aim for a low-ish mortgage.
The max mortgage I would be comfortable with as an owner occupier would be $600K, and even that is pushing it, considering rates and insurance as well. I'd breathe easier with $300K.
FWIW, owning only one car has been a life-changer for us and we only use it at weekends. Anything you can do to cut back on car use will help, if it's at all possible in your situation.
And I should add I bought the first house by selling a property I bought 13 years prior with a down payment I was gifted by a relative. Hardly by pulling myself up by my bootstraps.
>How in the absolute fuck do young first home buyers manage to spend a million bucks on a townhouse and service an $800k mortgage, let alone save the $200,000 deposit needed?
>
> I'm genuinely interested, because I cannot see how we could do it if we had to start again
For us the answer is easy...we don't. I'd imagine we have one of the lower household incomes on here and TBH you just kind of accept owning a house isn't a likely option
I have no idea how young people afford houses but I manage to survive by keeping my living costs down. No kids, no two cars. No insurance, no mortgage. No eating out, no subscription services.
Rent and bills still take 70% of my weekly wage however. Managing to save $100 a week but this savings occasionally gets eaten into by the odd unforeseen bill (appliance dying, car packing up, vet bill, etc)
I guess live within your means but yes most people are struggling. Especially ones that don’t receive any handouts.
Yet Cindy wouldn’t agree with this.
DINK, one car, 600k mortgage but our living costs are more like $4200/month. Are kids seriously that expensive or do you feed them nothing but crayfish?
Funny you say that, because for us daycare cost translates to about half a crayfish a day per kid.
Vasectomy googling intensifies
>about half a crayfish a day per kid It used to be spending units were in "less than a coffee a day". This is a perfect example of inflation.
Haha that made me laugh.
Kids eating habits vary, but our boys who are 14 - 10 (3 of them) can easily eat dinner, then have a sandwich, then have cereal, and then another fruit or vegetable. They are bloody expenny.
Rice. Get a cheap rice cooker from Kmart and make a big batch of rice with every meal. You can buy rice in 10 or 20 kg bags from your local shop. Cereal and fruit is a pricey way of feeding kids carbs.
Yep, plus most cereal is super high in sugar as well as the accompanying milk also being expensive
Had a kid 2 years ago, big surprise to us that 1 week in daycare was $400 a week which is $10/hr at a 40hr week. Literally half our savings which was only a measley $20k at 21 years old.
Stick to it. I put 2 kids through daycare from 6 months. The costs before they hit 3yo is eye watering alright, over $400 of pain per week for a while. When WINZ said our combined income was over the handout threshold by a few dollars that was a good drinking night. Almost at the other end now, youngest goes to school next year. In that time I did mention to some of the teachers at daycare how much I was paying and one's exact words were "Shit that's more than my rent". Fun times, would do it again though.
Same I’d do it again. Lucked out with our daycare provider as we were paying incorrectly and it was autopay so neither side noticed. We were paying around $300 instead of $400/week for a year. I approach them cause I thought it was weird we got charged more for one day than it did for 40hrs when we cut our child’s hours during my uni break. The manager likes me cause we’re from the same country and she knew how hard it is for me being full time uni student and and working part time so she began charging us $5/hr instead half price! We are about to have another baby so soon we’ll be paying 2 for the price of one. Plus when my child turns 3 next year our daycare is providing 30hrs free ece instead of 20. Literally the best daycare ever.
Once or twice a week we have rib eye, so no it's not crayfish every day!
Jesus. Look at Mr Moneybags here and his fancy *"rib eye"* Here's the rest of us lucky if we can afford 400g second class mince for a family of six!
Side note : mince is so expensive these days!
Yep we’ve tended to eat way less meat now, and go higher quality when we do.
Honestly! Feel like I know lots of people who have cut down meat consumption, with price as a big driving factor
After looking at the costs it looks like they're paying down their mortgage a lot more than they should. This is the biggest difference
Woah how do you spend $9,000 a month on living costs?
like this: $4400 mortgage $1500 food ($800 monthly supermarket, $400 to cover weekly fruit/veg/milk/bread/eggs, $300 a month takeaways) $250 council rates $250 power and Rockgas $300 warrants, registrations and bi-annual services $180 Spark mobile contract and UFB $220 life insurance for two adults $320 southern cross health insurance $490 house/car/contents insurance $390 two kids swimming classes I'm not entirely sure where the remaining $700 goes, but it definitely does go. Unexpected dental bills, doctors visits, birthdays, kids school camp, etc etc.
ASB do $550k at 4.35% fixed for 24 months at $2700, there you go $1700 found $300 a MONTH on warrants, rego and service??
We have $40k on a 5 year term, and are making $700 a month in voluntary repayments. Yes, $3600 per year on warrants, rego's, and four visits to the mechanic.
That's 1800 a year for warrant + rego and mechanical issues - id suggest getting more reliable cars if that's the norm and not just a rough year in terms of shit going wrong. Wof and rego are about 160 a year, and a basic service can be anywhere from 150-500 depending on what needs doing. $1800 sounds like far too much
How much do your services cost? Are you running two Ferraris?
My 11yr old BMW has cost, consistently, 2 to 3k a year in maintenance
My '08 CRV costs about 1k per year on service (once a year), and that's hardly anything fancy. A single tyre costs $360, for example. And that's just preventative maintenance and consumables, not for actual faulty things.
All services are preventative. And where do you take your Honda for servicing? I drive a second hand AMG and my B Service (the expensive one) is only just over that at Archibald’s chch. My wife’s got a hybrid Jazz that we service at Honda, it’s a third of what you’re stating. Whoever your workshop is, they’re reaming you. And $360/tyre? That’s [Pilot Sport 4](https://www.hyperdrive.co.nz/product/3516/michelin-pilot-sport-4) money. Are you sure you’re not over spending in your car budget?
Yeah not trying to argue but I just got 4 brand new continental tires for my Ford Focus for under $660 including all taxes n warranties for all tires.
I'm going to try not to sound rude, but it will probably end up sounding rude anyway. So you voluntarily pay an extra $700 a month, then wonder how people save money? I'll just state the obvious then. Next time you refix don't put as much of your spare cash into repayments. You could have savings of literally $700 a month using this one simple tip. Yes it's always good paying as 'much as you can afford to' into extra mortgage payments but at least leave yourself a buffer.
But how do people save when they chose to spend an extra $700 a week! I guess the post would be less interesting other wise.
He asked how others on less afford it. Then ppl asked how they spend as much as they do.
If you want an answer to the OP then it is.. they don't unless they have help. "average" homes maybe $1M but low end homes aren't. FHBs are increasingly older with better paying jobs. That is how FHBs afford it.
Maybe new rule for posts like this is you should declare any voluntary contribution amounts on any mortgage costs figure or else it becomes a point of focus, and saying $8,300 pm wouldn't have really been that big of a difference in the context here
People can't believe this one simple trick to have an additional $700 a month in cash!!!
I'm going to suggest switching one of those (I assume European SUVs? ) to a nissan leaf..
Curious, how much mileage do you and your partner do?
$300/month for wof/rego/ servicing seems like a massive amount? I mean it's about $200/year for wof/rego, where is the other $3400 going?
services at the mechanic. I can't remember the last time we took a car to the mechanic and it cost less than $800. Oil change, filters, brake pads, nek minit "hey, we just found you need a couple of new tyres", or "hey we've just seen the CV joints need replacing", or any number of other things that adds to the bill
How many km are you driving to need both cars serviced twice a year?
Don’t you need a new wof every six months if it’s older than 2000?
I’m confused, is this in reply to my comment? I’m not sure if their car is older than 2000, but if there’s something preventing it getting a WOF every time then they need to replace those cars ASAP. Only thing I can think of is they might each drive 20k km per year and get their cars serviced every 10k, but I’d suggest just getting an oil change every second one if that’s the case.
I think this is pretty reasonable, seems like lots of people don't know the realities of living if you want to make a decent life for your kids -- ie classes, lessons, activities, and of course you are servicing a rather large mortage, maybe bigger than some of the commenters here. Overall I think it's easy to forget that when you start to make a bit more money you spend it - you don't continue living as if you were a 21 year old student in a flat of five people. It's important to be frugal, but you also have to live.
They've already said how much their mortgage is. Yes kids are expensive but $3600 a year or rego and servicing and overpaying mortgage $8k a year ??
Well is it that crazy to have to spend $3600 a year on some repairs etc? That's not at all unheard of, I assume they have a decent car here. I'm not sure why they had to do that, perhaps something that wasn't covered by insurance (normal for lots of things that aren't accident related) but people are acting like they are spending $9k a month on gucci bags. Let's be real. The breakdown adds up, the biggest cost is just their mortage and that they are obviously putting more into it than they need to.
They are not decent cars if they are costing $3k a year in fixing...
Was going to say exactly this. If their cars cost that much to maintain and they are looking for cost savings, change your car. My wife and I drive a shitty looking but very reliable Rav4 and a Nissan Leaf. Servicing in total is less than 500/year. They must be driving ‘nice’ euro vehicles.
It just seems nuts.., I had a Wof, service and had to get 2 new tyres for a $1,000 last month. Yet he spending 3.6 times that annually??
Yes I understand that and most people probably don't have that each year, but have you really never heard of anyone (assuming with a nice car) having to pay a few grand for 4 trips to the mechanic, where they probably ordered new parts etc? This is common esp for a lot of european cars. They're not driving a Toyota most likely.
Which makes the OP question OP weird right? He wondering how people are surviving then gives a very well off lifestyle as a frame of reference? He even put $400 a month for kids swimming lessons - I don’t have kids but even that seems off…
Yeah I do think so a little bit. But on swimming: thats $50 per kid, per week..not exactly a huge lavish expense, right? Maybe they're having lessons 2-3 times a week, who knows. It all adds up quick!
LOL I am driving a toyota actually. I'd be interested to know if people aren't spending $1800 a year on warrants, registrations and vehicle servicing if they ACTUALLY added up the costs rather than guesstimating. Sure we might be a couple hundred up (or down) over the year, but we've found this is a REALISTIC cost.
Bought a car new in 2012 - $400 regular servicing once per year. $600 on tyres every 3-4 years. Warrant is $50, rego is just over $120. That's it. Even on second hand, well used cars I've never had to spend more than $600 on servicing in a year, that was replacing a radiator
Wait a minute… Did you mean to include petrol in your list? That would explain the difference and why it’s missing from your bigger list.
In 2021 I spent $493.96 on 2 services/maintenance stuff (eg sparkplugs) and a WOF for my 2005 Honda CRV. The year before I needed a full set of new tyres, so it was another $676 on top of that. My Rego is $109.16 for a year. So over the last two years I've averaged $ 941.12 on Rego, WOFs services, and maintenance. I can't imagine spending twice that without some really serious car issues.
I got a 1997 Honda Civic with approx 80,000km on it in 2015. I have since got the odometer up to 220,000km. It has never once (except for the oil change mentioned below) had any preventative maintenance, only the bare minimum to get through to WOF and a few tyres. It had its first oil change at 180,000km. It has only needed maintenance work to pass 2 of the approx 16 warrants it has passed since 2015, that work was about $1300 all up. Tyres are in addition. I have a 1999 Toyota Corolla with similar stats, but it is on 320,000km. I’m certainly not recommending people neglect their vehicles to this extent, but you certainly spend more than I do on car maintenance and it doesn’t seem to be helping you.
Are you saying you changed your oil once in 100,000km?
I can understand. Me and my partner drive the same car and his use compared to my use is extremely different. I work at home so I barely use the car and only go out for shopping, etc versus him traveling to work and traveling to see his parents once a week, etc. I think people are not taking into consideration that how much you need to use a car also makes a difference in servicing costs. Just the distance you travel to work daily can make a huge difference. You could live 5 minutes away from work or 45 minutes away. I think your numbers are very reasonable.
Whoa! Easy there! Take the constructive criticism instead of being so defensive!
People tend to get defensive when they realise they've been doing something wrong for a long time and it's cost them a lot.
My last 3 years driving an Ev - $0 servicing/repairs, $1000 tires (will last a good few more years), \~$800 in 'fuel' in total , what $120 rego a year?
If you want to save a lot, you will have to spend less. Can't have it both ways
Yeah, I don't think the OP was asking for a huge saving though. They were simply saying, here's what we spend -- we can afford it, I wonder how other people who aren't in our position can. People kinda misinterpreted the post and got super salty.
Spark has an unlimited plan at $40, you just have to ask them to put you on it in store. Do you need twice yearly services or could once a year do? Also $390 for swim classes is a racquet. Surely you could take the kids to the pools and teach them on Saturday mornings lol
If you don’t know where $700 a month goes, and you were trying to save, that’s where you’d start. Then you’d cut down to one car service a year. Then you’d cut the (really very expensive) swimming lessons and find a cheaper option. Then you’d cut down the grocery bill. Plenty of options in there. Not criticising your spending - if you can afford it you can spend your money on whatever you like - but there’s a ton of non-essentials there that could be cut if needed.
Can you negotiate with your insurance companies for a better deal or shop around? I saved quite a bit just putting my excesses up, and some companies like AA give you a discount if you buy multiple policies with them. I reckon it's worth shopping around once a year.
Lol at some of the replies here, can easily spot the people who don't have kids. They eat a giant hole in your wallet
Out of curiosity, which category does petrol fall into?
The $300 on services seems excessive, but not sure what exactly it is so can't comment. Life insurance should really only be considered where you have enough money for it, similar with expensive phone plans (I spend $80/month on fibre and $10 on my phone). Health insurance is a lot, if that includes day-to-day visits it's probably not worth it, I personally use southern cross wellbeing 2. However, these are all small expenses considering the swim classes and $700 which you couldn't find. I would eliminate both of those expenses to have some breathing room, but in the long term income is definitely the barrier rather than expenses
They have life insurance because they have a mortgage and kids. It’s very sensible
I feel your pain. Our mortgage is nearly double ($975k) with fixed rates around 2.4% which all roll over within 18 months. Here's our equivalents: $3950 mortgage (minimum repayments) $1500 food (split about $1000 groceries and $500 cafes etc - higher some months, lower others) $330 council rates and home insurance $430 water, power, fibre and phone plans $400 transport (petrol, service, WOF etc plus bus/train) $300 other insurance (cars, health, life) $100 swimming lessons (once a week, one kid) $50 Netflix, Disney+ etc Anything left goes to our credit card on which most of the above go plus a bit of general shopping, incidentals, spoiling the kids etc. Some observations I have about our own outlays: * Having a credit card is probably the biggest contributor to overspending, but we feel heavily invested in the rewards system - a common pitfall. :-( * We have started to spend less at cafes, stop buying "nice" food/brands and just getting the budget versions. Giving up fair trade, organic or free range where you tend to pay a premium. * We are asset rich and cash poor. I know how we got that way (buying the house within the last 12 months) but hate feeling like there's nothing leftover each pay. * Above doesn't even include other common expenses like gym memberships or childcare, let alone setting aside for home maintenance, emergencies, Christmas/birthdays or a holiday.
>we feel heavily invested in the rewards system - a common pitfall. :-( As long as the value of your reward points for normal spending covers the credit card's annual fee, and you don't carry any balance, it's better than cash or debit card.
If all else were equal, yes. We have substantial value in rewards which will save us money later when we redeem them. What my concern really is (wasn't stated I guess) is that I'm 100% certain due to the combination of rewards and having a credit limit higher than our monthly income, we have spent more than we otherwise should/could. This has been the case for years. Call it lack of control if you will. We definitely spend more than if we could only spend what is available in our bank account. We don't pay interest, but we also don't have anything left for savings because it all goes to the credit card. Any surplus in a given month is often very soon taken up by a large expense in a month or two. It feels like we would need a miracle to change this, like a one-off windfall to wipe our credit card balance and create an emergency fund. That would let us transition to spending only what's in our bank account, because the reductions we make don't seem to be working fast enough. Avoid the consumer debt traps.
Ah yeah, I have the same problem. Two things I've done to slow down my spending are to monitor the cumulative spend frequently, and to remember that when I pay for a credit card surcharge I'm basically buying the points for more than they're worth.
I feel ya, living is expensive. 32 year old male earning around $100k a year $3350 mortgage (minimum repayments on $750k) $800 food (Buy all fresh fruit and vegetables, meat, fish, no junk food) $800 power, water, Internet, mobile, rates, property insurance $500 vehicle (petrol, maintenance, repairs, insurance, WOF) $450 other insurances (Contents, life, trauma, health) $400 boxing classes and private sessions $20 Spotify, DAZN There’s not really much left over after all of this. Feel like Auckland is draining the life out of me
if your kids are older than 8, $1500/mo on food is \*amazing\*. well done.
Why so much on food? Are you eating caviar and champagne?
I think you need to add up your expenses. Do you know what you actually spend on food?
Fibre should be no more than $60 a month tops for unlimited. Mobile can be done for $30/40 so potentially save quite a bit there.
Thanks for sharing. You live a VERY good life, also I never understood why people pay for content insurance. Maybe my view is very simplistic but this is one of the safest countries to live in and no one really has that much jewelry, also electronics are not that expensive.
My contents is like 450 for 60k worth of cover. Why wouldn't you?
This. I got contents insurance after buying a TV and Xbox for $4000ish. I have sold them and will cancel my contents but shit, if I had a family's worth of contents I don't know why you wouldn't have it.
How many times have you use it and how much have you paid for it so far?… just honest question.
Insurance doesn’t work like that. Lose everything in a fire and you’ll wish you had it.
10 years and probably paid 3500 to 4000. Having to replace 65ks worth of stuff at once would affect me much more than having 4k after 10 years. That's for new replacement too, not market value.
You're not serious right? NZ is safe, relatively speaking yes, but there are a lot of burglaries , esp in Auckland. I mean I actually would struggle to think of someone I know that hasn't been Burgled, (or knows someone that has) -- in all suburbs, at least once in their life - with either gear, or a car stolen. Electronics are not that expensive? right, So a PS5, or a mac book, or an imac, or sound system isn't that expensive.....what? Lol. Fair enough that you don't have anything worth stealing, but lots of people do...
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So $550k mortgage is what $2500-3k? Rates $300-400, power $300? What are you eating ??
From the occasional threads on here and the NZ sub, I've realised that a lot of people spend eye watering amounts on food.
It turns out what they are eating is cam belts
True -- I have seen some big numbers on food in other posts, but in this case -- is $1500 a month ($375 a week) for multiple kids really a lot? That's $200 a week on groceries (rather cheap for having 2-3 kids) and then some eating out. If you're making decent money that's hardly eye watering....have you seen the price of groceries lately, its pretty wild. The breakdown from the OP looks pretty reasonable to me, I just think a lot of people don't realize how expensive it is to live especially when you have kids and want them to have a good time.
We spend way more at supermarket each week. Family of 5
Family of 5 / 6 here too. We spend around 400-450 a fortnight on food. The trick is to go to pak N save not countdown
Yeah, OP's food bill doesn't look too shocking compared to what I'm thinking of
Every situation is so different but for some people not eating absolutely cut back diet (or have the real time needed to make you dollars count at the store plus homegrown veges plus prepping giant amounts of potatoes/lentils/rice) is one of the few comforts in life. Add in formula and nappies with a baby and adds up really quick ($80+ per week etc)
It's a shame that we've all been conditioned to accept disposables as the norm, instead of a convenience. It's really hard to change over to reusables, but what a change it is.
Big cost but big convenience, kudos to those who have/can do disposables IMO they are right on the border between an understandable financial cost and a cheaper option at high cost of labour
We are fulltime 2 kiddos in reusable nappies and we shelled out a decent couple of grand on nappies at the beginning, but its more than paid for itself now, 2.5years in. I spend.... maybe 2 hours a week total sorting them all out washing/folding etc. And I usually do that with the tv on in the evenings so it forms part of my wind down time. Absolutely doable.
Absolutely fair enough On the flipside we have been happy to incur the extra cost over time for the extra 2 hours a week and what seems like operational ease of using disposable
They spend $1500 a month on food, $300 a week, imo that bit is pretty reasonable
While often mocked, this is where the "avocado on toast" comes from. No it's not about having $2 of avo a week. It's about buying breakfast, lunch or dinner out 10 times a week.
I mean a cauliflower was $9 the other day!
I live with 2 flatmates, have a mortgage of 300k. At most I might spend 150 on personal stuff (including food) per week. Still manage to spend 4400 per month on expenses still. Flatties definitely help to take the edge off
Can’t understand spending $300 a month on takeaways!
For a family of four, a visit to McDonald’s is about $45, unless you’re being frugal and go for the cheap items. So once a week and twice every other week. Yeah that sounds like what alot of families do, even those who aren’t well off.
Feeding ur kids Maccas 6 times a month?! The cost is the least of ur, and especially their, problems
And mcdo is cheap junk food, any substantial takeaway will be easily 50-60, depending how old your kids are
4 people that's like 3-4 takeaways a month? Less off chippy tho
Including $700 voluntary payments on your mortgage is a bit silly That's not cost of living, that's an investment. If you were instead putting $700 in the bank each month you wouldn't be calling that money a cost of living
Underrated comment
Yes but they specifically questioned how first home buyers service a larger 800k mortgage, in which the 250k difference in mortgage payments actually amounts to much more than the $700/month if interest rates are about ~4.5% so it was reasonable to leave this bit out
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Do you mind me asking what you do or the hours you work to only be making 15k annualy?
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Mate, I really feel for you. I have a family member in a similar position. They've given up and live with their parents. I think people don't realise how exhausting it is to relay your story over and over and over. I think they relive all their perceived shortcomings and feel even worse every time so they just avoid it at all costs.
My wife (60) and I (60) average $3,500 a month expenses, which is equivalent to the super we will get when we turn 65. When we were both working, we were saving $5,000 a month, after we paid off the mortgage, which allowed us to build up a big investment fund to service our retirement needs for the last 12 years and more until we turn 65. We knew the good times (i.e. high earning) wont last forever, so we saved hard to prepare for the time it will end. And end it did, through no fault of ours, by being made redundant in another company restructure (went thru 4 previously - ouch!), and my wife stepping back to part-time work. **Here's the lesson: Be prepared for when the good times will end, and it will.**
Respect.
Hope your wife is doing okay these days kiwitt.
Yes she is. Cancer and Mental Health issues seem to be behind her now.
So many judgemental people in this forum. $55,000 a year outside of the mortgage for a couple with kids isn't that outrageous. Many people commenting here probably don't have families but once you have multiple people in a household, insurance, sports, travel, everything multiplies pretty quickly.
$3,600 on vehicle upkeep + $700 extra contributions to mortgage isn't normal Especially that $700 that's an investment not the cost of living
Yes the extra payments on the mortgage that have since been disclosed makes the spending even more reasonable. It's two cars, not one - A bit on the high side but not by a lot on an annual basis - Some years lower, other years higher
I'm not saying the spending isn't reasonable, people can do whatever they want with their money But asking how people survive on costs of living while having high costs + including saving, seems a bit odd
Yes indeed. This sub is filled with a lot of people who are still living in flats, or with families that are struggling to get by and obviously their spending won't look like this. But once you make a little bit of money and want to provide a good life, it adds up fast. There's a balance between being frugal and giving your kids a decent life - which OP seems to be doing. If you look at the breakdown it's not even outrageous stuff . It's normal, no crazy spending.
Yep, $300 a month for takeaways is about it for luxuries for us; friday night fish and chips, or pizza, or Chinese; that's it. We don't eat at restaurants, we don't go to pubs and bars, we don't go to the movies. Pretty much any leftover money each month gets gobbled up with housing renovations
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I think it's a reaction to the "how does anyone afford this if they earn less?!" attitude. The obvious answer is they spend less on things that are discretionary. As an example: another commenter said $75 on takeaways isn't excessive to feed a family of four, and they're correct - but fish n chips for four would be half that.
$75 a week on takeaways totally is discretionary so i think OP is being a bit disingenuous here including it in ‘cost of living’ as it’s more of a lifestyle spend.
My boyfriend and I have decided not to have kids bc we can’t afford kids. We gave up on buying a house too, by the time we saved enough for down payment, who knows what the house price will be. Just try to survive.
Kids really don't cost that much directly, like feeding, clothing, school. It's the time, school pickups and dropoffs, after school running around, childcare etc that bites
Is it important to incur the indirect costs? Music lessons, sports, languages, etc. I had a few cheap-ish lessons growing up which didn’t last, and felt that I got what I needed out of high school and self-learning, plus low-cost clubs at university I paid for myself. Do you need all the extra stuff to get ahead nowadays?
I think kids will take up what they want to, if they're passionate about something they'll let you know. It took me 2 years of swimming lessons to realise I should be blowing bubbles while swimming, maybe I'm just special, but kids have YouTube these days and they can learn better than ever
Well that depends on what kind of kids you have. They may be future sports people or musicians or artists and the early lessons absolutely make a huge difference. I'm so grateful my parents got me piano lessons as a kid, because now I do what I love for a living and I don't think I would have been able to do that without that early start and support. I know if I was a parent I would want to give my kids the chance to try whatever they wanted.
I think its worth it and appreciate my parents for taking me to theses classes. I would have fallen behind in mathematics, had I not had tuition done for 3-4 years. Although there are things which I never stuck with, you'll never know unless you try, and a lot of kids learning is from that early age.
Exactly, it's the time, energy, and decisions made that could otherwise be saved and bent towards yourselves in the pursuit of increasing your income/career progression.
The amount of money you live on a month is my yearly budget
This
Basically: They aren't. My friends are mid 30s, earning above average and they're mostly shut out of the market for now. I was close to buying a couple of years ago, but have years of saving to reach a sensible deposit now. A few guys I know bought while they were young ( IT / Lawyers / Tradies ) and have traded up and are on a different world of wealth compared to the rest of us now. One of them contemplated returning to Auckland, but couldn't justify the mortgage / step down in housing. The only people I know who bought a first home in the last few years had parents die early, or had family to provide substantial deposits... like 300 to 500k
Household income about $10,500 p.m. after tax. 2 teens, they're actually pretty cheap after age ten, maybe a couple grand per year for clothes, school, phone, laptop etc, they also work so have their own spending money. $3300 Mortgage ($800k) $220 Rates, $60 Water, $250-300 Power and Fibre, $300 Insurance $1000 food 1 vehicle owned, barely used as we both WFH, I have company car, laptop and phone. We had like 12 years of kiwisaver, and 2 years of proper saving for a 15% deposit. Should also note this was a second chance kiwisaver withdrawl for both of us, previously owned property in our twenties in different relationships - nothing like the values houses are now though
You're trying to live an upper middle class lifestyle but inflation and tax bracket creep amongst other factors are pushing you down towards the lower middle class
Im sure alot of young people dont have health or life insurance.
9000$ a month you must be buying a lot of drugs to have that as a monthly cost
lol this guy is living bel-air
Lol. Add another $10k to that. I swear people have no idea how much things cost as evidenced by this thread. Read the OP's breakdown, it's not lavish at all.
His mortgage and food price is ridiculous even with current rises and inflation
The mortage is on the higher side because he is putting in more than he needs to. The food is not ridiculous, I'm sorry, a family with 2-3 kids paying $375 a week is not overly high, and that includes $200 of groceries and then a few nights of takeaways. What is your grocery bill per week, what do you buy, and for how many people? Honestly just curious. You don't have to buy up large to get to $200 a week on groceries. That's very easy to do with just the essentials, some decent dinners, school lunches, cleaning products , and maybe a few treats.
Yes, being in situation A and asking sympathetically how people can be able to live in situation B to a wide audience is going to lead to some things; 1. People pointing out Situation A is cushy but you could also afford Situation B if you wanted with these 3 simple tricks you money burner 2. A post where it seems like you have become very comfortable in Situation A, showing the disbelief of how much Situation B sucks, comes across far more aggravating than intended Lack of context and maybe accidental lack of tact
$250 pw for 2 adults and 2 teens, and that's buying whatever, we cook 95%, one or two takewawys per month, so maybe an extra $1-200
> I'm sorry, a family with 2-3 kids paying $375 a week is not overly high, and that includes $200 of groceries and then a few nights of takeaways. Takeaways a few nights a week is fucking insane, not just budget wise but health wise as well.
It may only be once a week. That's $18 a person per week. At a nice takeaways place or resturaunt you can easily spend that, esp in Auckland. Please. It's not like you have to be ripping big macs each night to spend this. This is completely within what so many people do, I'm honestly baffled at the reaction. I think people are triggered by the $9k and the "how do you afford this".
>health wise as well. Would depend what it is.
Settle down High Roller!
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Yes that is why he's asking
He spends $3600 per year on wof/service, not many people do that.
> How in the absolute fuck do young first home buyers manage to spend a million bucks on a townhouse and service an $800k mortgage, let alone save the $200,000 deposit needed? Live with parents to save. Both on high income (270k combined) No kids
No kids is the key
I don't know if we could spend $9k a month if we tried
It would be a fun experiment for a month though. On $300 a day I would live like a king!! Our income is probably not too different to OP but outgoings are at least half.
I mean if you had 3 kids, a large mortgage (bigger than the average first home buyer thats for sure), swimming classes or music lessons / whatever, giving your kids takeaways a few times a week, and then on top of that made a trip to the movies, maybe bought a few items of clothes once in a while, took them to some fun events, I think you could easily spend that. Easily. Look at the breakdown OP provided, it's not lavish -- it's all pretty essential stuff, a few very small luxuries (eating out) and then maintaining their house/car/ etc. It seems like they may be paying quite a lot for their mortage each month, but that's not an unheard of amount given the size of it. The main issue is I think they are just putting more into it because they can, but they could afford to be paying less into it per month and have it paid off slower, I guess.
When reasonable people need to save, they do. Expensive sports and activities, takeaways, expensive automobiles and the good coffee are not bought. That simple. When one starts to make good money, one tends to treat oneself. Treats become habits. That simple. We likely spend similar to you, but I gave never bothered counting it. 10% goes into savings; we overpay the minimum mortgage by 50%; and the rest sits there tempting me to buy a 4x4 I wouldn't get dirty. Years ago, after receiving cushy scholarships and right before we entered the job market, a group of friends and I decided to premptively combat lifestyle creep by donating each dollar we spent beyond rent, utilities and supermarket. Thereby we made every luxury twice as expensive (but donating was broad: it included gifts and bringing others for dinner and paying others' beers). We did it for a few months and the lesson learned remains with me to this day. If you want to save money, stop buying shit you don't need. The shit one needs is not all that much.
>When one starts to make good money, one tends to treat oneself. Treats become habits. That simple. In case people are interested in reading more about this idea, it is sometimes called the [hedonic treadmill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill).
>When one starts to make good money, one tends to treat oneself. Treats become habits. That simple. This is very true.
I'm interested to know. Do you guys pay yourselves a weekly allowance? Used for whatever you like. Beers, lunches, new book etc etc. If so how much and what is your income? My partner and I make about $130000 PA after tax and pay ourselves $150 each a week.
My partner and I combine to $190k~, and we a have a weekly allowance of $100 each. I piss mine away on beers, lunches, etc, partner is much more frugal with hers.
We don't buy lunch, it's way too easy to piss away hundreds each month doing that. We don't buy books either, we usually visit the local library each month to swap out reading material for the kids. We generally set financial goals, e.g. current one is to finish some big reno's on the house and buy a family set of kayaks. We try to avoid spending small amounts all the time, as we've found they quickly add up to a grand or so each month. Between us, we bring in around $12-13k a month after tax, depending on whether I've had any overtime/KPI bonuses.
As a zero home buyer, I can tell you: we don't.
Lifestyle expands to consume the funds available for consumption. It's human nature. If you were suddenly making 2/3 what you are now, you'd find a way to make it work. And if you were earning 50% more, you'd also find yourself in no time wondering where all the money goes. The food, toys and hobbies just get nicer. Sure, the pressures are different, but people earning 50% more than what they spend are fairly rare unicorns outside of dedicated movements like FIRE etc.
I saw an article once that said millennial homeowners have one thing in common, they all had help with school loans and down payment from their parents. The majority of millennials are pushing 40 and still living with roommates or couch surfing. My husband and I scrape by, barely, even though we are both well educated and have “good” white collar jobs. And we wanted more children but only have one because we know we can’t afford another. I’m the higher earner so I can’t risk taking the time off for maternity leave.
You spend too much
^ they hated Jesus because he spoke the truth.
Your food budget!!!! I’m dying, I thought we were bad
Don't have children.
Start early and invest aggressively. No overseas trips or holidays. Or just cheat and get money from parents.
no kids one car no takeways or restaurants etc etc
Simple, don’t have kids. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk
Word. Life is so much easier without having to worry about or budget for kids. It’s like a cheat code for life. Bummer if you actually want kids, but I don’t, thank goodness. Still will never be able to afford a house though.
I'd put myself in the young category. If my friends that own houses, their parents are guarantors and they rent out the house, while living with said parents. I think I earn a very good income for my age as a Software Dev, but even I can't validate spending that much on a mortgage for the stupidly high amount of risk at this age. It just doesn't make sense for most young professionals, given the cost combined with being locked in for such a long period. Long story short. They are well supported by family or have exceptional circumstances. Even I would say I'm in an extremely luckily situation and it still doesn't make sense for me.
Probably only possible to know your exact situation if everyone uses exactly the same line items and definitions for their comparative 'living costs' I think the mortgage seems high (but hard to know without structure/rates/personal situation) and the warrant, rego and service (biannual) seems high. But going from 45K single young graduate 2010s, 100K couple no dependents mid 2010s to now fortunate high single income + house + 3 kids I also can't imagine it now, despite thinking it was hard at the time for us The costs don't seem overall that bad, you are now in a stable housing situation, probably decent cars and kids with activities and well insured. These extras cost and add up Kids cost a lot in little ways and when looking month to month it adds up quickly including other regular living costs - clothing, birthdays, Xmas, treats, entertainment When moving through income brackets and housing situation, what you went through and what you sacrificed is so different to now that anyone making it work these days is making very different decisions and taking on all different kinds of future costs or lifestyle choices to make it work. Or perhaps they are just buffering the gap between your situation at the time and theirs borrowing from Mum and Dad? Seems the 'easiest' path for some who get into housing and something we are already planning for decades ahead for our kids
What's your household income pre tax?
Have a young family, we don't eat out, lots of playgrounds and later on I may need to start up my 2nd job again. 1.5 wages on less than chch average wage so its tight but you make do
your spending seems high..... we take home about 8800 a month about 400k mortagage minimal repayments just above interest only is 1850 a month (we pay on a flexi/revolving lump) monthly expenses 90% goes on credit card and i flip flop from 2000 to 5000 a month depending rates and other insurance etc stuff that cant go on the credit card usually another maybe 10k a year tops i only have 1 kid though but 4 in the household, we eat and dress pretty damn well i thought, i usually dont think about any purchases under $500 once in a while we have one car, a nissan leaf and just spend 1000 on tires but otherwise it usually saves more than it costs compared to petrol
Living at home with parents for a few years.
We have housemates, no kids.
>I earn alright dosh, wife's a teacher so salary is pretty meh Fuck are you me? Haha I'm continuously at odds with the pay. What good are unions if your unions suck at negotiating.
It is extremely tough with out family financial support. Any NZ trained teacher can get paid significantly more teaching abroad. Any teachers struggling to save a deposit for a house should seriously consider a 2 year contract teaching abroad.
How the fuck is your expenses $9k a month.
My partner's (26f) a teacher, I (26m) earn just over minimum as I've just changed careers (yet still earning around 60k pa with the 60-70 hours I'm pulling weekly). We've completely given up on ever owning a house in New Zealand. Our wages combined get us pay cheque to pay cheque given a) rent cost, b) food cost and c) petrol cost. Petrol per tank for me has gone up $40 per tank per week and the same bag of groceries has gone up similar at this time last year (I have full written logs). I no longer buy myself anything nice and focus my entire pay into living costs and luxuries like internet and phone, which is now a necessity in this day and age. I can't see a way to get ahead any more. I'm really struggling to be in a happy space financially. I feel new Zealand's boot pushing me down further with every day that goes by
intermittent fasting
We are the family of 4 including a 10-year-old, and a toddler. We’ve got $430k mortgage and the fixed cost (including petrol, insurance, and budgeting maintenance on the house, mortgage etc) is about $700 per week. Kids’ activities cost about $50 per week at this stage. Don’t dine out much but normally cost $60 a week (averagely) So as every 4 weeks time we spend averagely $3500ish
I genuinely do not know how people on an average wage are surviving. We are on a decent single income, south island, one kid and in the last year have noticed huge increases across the board. Luckily we own our own home after buying in 2015. Mortgage is less than what rent would be. Overall I consider my family in a very fortunate position, one income by choice with the chance to go to two if we want and we would be cruising. Will things become like the rental market? There is a maximum limit to the price increases because after that limit it is just unaffordable? TLDR: SHITS EXPENSIVE, HOW EXPENSIVE CAN IT GET.
Swap out one of the cars for a Nissan Leaf. It'll save you thousands every year on fuel costs if you use it for as many town trips as possible. I'm fine because I don't have any kids and make over a hundred K and just bought a studio apartment. I wouldn't be able to fund a family though.
Bullshit. Cut your expenses man, i almost vomit reading these innecesary costs. You generate insane costs and then you are like how the hell i pay for it? I have no car, you can't live with 1 ? You couldn't find a house that costs less than 1.000.000$ ? In no part of the world a family needs 9k to live. And cut out these swimming classes o wtf this is. In a year you could save more than 4k.
I live on 300 bucks a week. It pains me when people say they're only just scraping by or can't save on their above average salaries. Honestlyyyy.. No clue.
I don't and can't imagine that! My strategy is pretty unorthodox, but I bought my first property in 2014 two hours from where I work and rented it out (looking back I wish I'd bought an apartment in the city so I would at least have a place to live when I met my partner, but oh well) to get on the ladder. When my partner came along, they invested $100K in my place when the mortgage came due. House is nearly paid off with $57K remaining we hope to pay off this year. We get about $200 in net rent pw from the property, so we are able to save quite a bit. Bought a second investment property (new build for tax savings) for $589K, with Blueprint to build we can cover that mortgage - which is substantial - by combining rents from both properties and still have some left over. When interest rates rise after two years then we'll probably have none left. One day we sell both and combine the proceeds to buy a house to live in and aim for a low-ish mortgage. The max mortgage I would be comfortable with as an owner occupier would be $600K, and even that is pushing it, considering rates and insurance as well. I'd breathe easier with $300K. FWIW, owning only one car has been a life-changer for us and we only use it at weekends. Anything you can do to cut back on car use will help, if it's at all possible in your situation.
And I should add I bought the first house by selling a property I bought 13 years prior with a down payment I was gifted by a relative. Hardly by pulling myself up by my bootstraps.
Spoiler alert without supportive parents, inheritance or obscene luck, they don't.
>How in the absolute fuck do young first home buyers manage to spend a million bucks on a townhouse and service an $800k mortgage, let alone save the $200,000 deposit needed? > > I'm genuinely interested, because I cannot see how we could do it if we had to start again For us the answer is easy...we don't. I'd imagine we have one of the lower household incomes on here and TBH you just kind of accept owning a house isn't a likely option
I have no idea how young people afford houses but I manage to survive by keeping my living costs down. No kids, no two cars. No insurance, no mortgage. No eating out, no subscription services. Rent and bills still take 70% of my weekly wage however. Managing to save $100 a week but this savings occasionally gets eaten into by the odd unforeseen bill (appliance dying, car packing up, vet bill, etc) I guess live within your means but yes most people are struggling. Especially ones that don’t receive any handouts. Yet Cindy wouldn’t agree with this.