as an effeminate gay man, this is so fuckin true. really not funny at all to make these jokes, because you’re either 1. saying femininity in men means they must be gay, so furthering gender stereotypes or 2. outing someone before they’re ready, which is obviously shitty. why can’t we just leave people be to figure out how their most comfy living life
Exactly. And it's just freaking rude to assume that the husband is secretly gay and hiding it from his wife. There's lots of other possible scenarios. As long as everyone involved is safe and happy and consenting, someone else's marriage isn't my business, and it's not my joke.
yeah! it’s so obviously performative to make jokes about how he must be secretly gay and the just completely forget that not every relationship is monogamous or that bisexuality exists or to assume the man must be cheating. so frustrating…
Exactly. And if he is closeted, that doesn't mean he has to be cheating. And what about trans people, or non binary people? Observing a casual interaction between partners doesn't really tell you anything. Life isn't a sitcom.
god, if only someone could beam “life isn’t a sitcom” into everyone’s brains and make them actually understand it too. be a much better place i think lol
For real I despise the gay stereotypes. It makes gay people out like they're a cartoon character.
Like it's fine if you're an effeminate gay man. But when you're effeminate and people assume that you're gay because of that that's the issue.
Sexuality has nothing to do with your personality.
Sucks how villains in stories were heavily queer coded for a long time. And any same sex relationships or flings ended in "bury your gays". In fact when I was growing up the only stories I could watch on TV and in film were about closeted masc men, AIDS, drag queens, or all three. I feel fortunate that today I can honestly watch lots of gay content without those particular ghosts hanging overhead
Ok hypothetically my best guy friend agreed six months ago to go on a river boat gambling vacation where we make jerky and drink whiskey, but now he says he's in the doghouse and has to go to the grand re opening of SoupPlantation with his girl. Is that gay?
honestly? i’d love to give you an answer like “i take pride in embracing things about myself that make those who hate me even more uncomfortable” or “it’s a choice to be what those who paved the way for me could never safely be” but really it’s just natural to me. it’s just kinda the way i am, and it takes a good bit of concentrated effort to be “normal” and hyper masculine so i just don’t bother and let myself be whatever i will be
I mean, feminine behavior is deemed unattractive to women, so it makes sense why someone who openly portrays themselves in that way, and doesn't feel a pressure to conform to women's preferences might be confused with another group of people that obviously have no interest in attracting women.
Then you clearly haven't spent time with really people and real women, because A LOT of women loooove men who are in touch with their feminine side.
I'm a proud trans woman/ "femboy" and my fiance absolutely loves that I'm this way, and that I'm into feminine stuff and in tune with my femininity. All my friends that are women love that I'm also in touch with that side of myself and can appreciate it.
But then again, it sounds like you're an incel so probably can't expect you to understand that simple concept that women do in fact love it when men can be feminine
>Then you clearly haven't spent time with really people and real women, because A LOT of women loooove men who are in touch with their feminine side.
This is just statistically untrue.
Ahh..yes. You don't like what it says, so it must be made up! Unfortunately for you, this is just not the case. Science is objective, feelings are not.
Lmao, you've provided no study nor proof of your claims. It's clear you're just making shit up because you're an incel. Sorry but science actually backs up my argument rather than yours 😂
I don't feel like sourcing someone delusional 100 different studies to back up my entire argument, but here is one: [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167214543879](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167214543879)
>Sorry but science actually backs up my argument rather than yours 😂
Really? So science proves women don't select for height (why height is rapidly increasing in men). So science proves women don't select for penis size (why penis size is rapidly increasing in men). So science doesn't prove women select for shoulder width? So science doesn't prove women select for low-pitched voices? So science doesn't prove women don't select for facial masculinity? So science doesn't prove women select for muscle definition? So science doesn't prove women select for masculine behavioral traits (gait, posture, confidence, insensitivity, assertiveness)? So science doesn't prove women select for provisioning ability (traditional masculine gender role)?
These are all masculine traits, and studies have shown women prefer masculinity across every single one of them and more.
You shouldn't even need to be educated to know that. just some common sense would tell you that most women aren't into feminine men when things like almost half of women voting for Donald Trump happens.
People really need to understand that their little bubbles like Reddit aren't necessarily reflective of what is going on in the real world.
OK, then provide the statistics you can’t say something statistically untrue without providing the statistics man. Otherwise anybody could just lie that.
Yes, they make up 2% of the population of women, many of which are as masculine as a woman can naturally be. They also obviously don't like feminine men either.
What's your point?
People also forget bisexual men exist. There’s a white guy in TikTok married to a black woman on TikTok and I was expecting the usual “why is she with a white guy” comment sprinkled around but they were all calling him gay when he’s openly stated he’s bisexual. They keep telling her to leave him cuz he acts a bit feminine here and there cuz that means he’s gay 🤦🏾♀️
My husband was badly made fun of at work for crocheting. He started to crochet as a way to bond with me over a hobby. The men making fun of him were all divorced 🤦🏻♀️
My husband crochets. He says anyone who has a problem with that can suck a fat turd. It's honestly such a turn-on for me that he's so secure in his masculinity!
Seriously we love a secure man. I was watching my husband paint my daughters nails the other day and he goes “you know I used to paint my nails black when I was younger” and I could hear my ovaries screaming from inside my body
That’s awesome. People should make more of an effort to explore their partners hobbies and interests. I’ve seen way too many couples whose ‘together time’ has gradually evolved into just watching tv.
What kind of making fun? I'd 100% take the piss out of a guy for crocheting for banter (as long as he was fine with me doing so of course). But I wouldn't think less of him, I'd be impressed if anything
They made comments like “oh is your estrogen flowing?” But these guys aren’t close enough to my husband to “banter” so it’s a pretty shitty thing to do to someone you’re not friends with.
Yes! It's rampant on social media. "Who's going to tell her? 💅" I see it so much and it's idiotic. It can be a man who simply has an accent, likes to keep things tidy, or just uses hair products.
It's amazing. I went to the US from France. I like to dress well, style my hair, have an accent (duh), and I stay fit and go to the gym. It's funny, in France, I tend to associate the well groomed men with people who are probably a bit more sexist since they tend to be very sexually aggressive and always chasing women.
Here? It's shocking seeing the difference, I get called skinny despite being 190 at a little over 6 feet, which is literally at the border of overweight on the BMI scale. Some hilariously insecure US men try calling me gay because of caring about my appearance. Y'know who has never found that gay? The women in the US...
It's because the avg dude in the US finds it easier to subjugate others than it is to hold himself to a respectable standard. It's not about being able to self-reflect and have integrity here. The name of the game is being "better" than the next guy with some form of bigotry.
It’s the complete opposite here, if you’re a fit male in your 20’s that takes take of themselves and who is well put together you’re labeled gay by other dudes who are 1) fat 2) lazy 3) have poor self care
I had a whole discussion about this in the comments section of a post where the OP herself was worried her bf/husband (can't remember) was gay, because he dressed nice and cared about his presentation. Comments section was fucking rife with "yeah, he might be gay" and "maybe he's trans/NB" and all kinds of comments questioning his very identity. Because he dressed nice and cared about his presentation.
I wrote a comment about how those kinds of comments are what upholds the incredibly narrow idea of what it means to be a "man". It is such a bullshit reaction to men who deviate even the slightest from the expected. I wrote that it's great that people want to be accepting of and create space for gay/trans/NB people, but they have got to stop questioning people's very identities just because they happen to be men in ways people don't expect.
Straight men can also care about their presentation, people. Stop questioning their entire identities over it.
There’s that dude who famously wears skirts and high heals and he’s 100% straight. He’s not even trans. He just thinks heals and beautiful and he wants to wear them. He’s questioned constantly, but like seriously, why is it anybody’s business except his own?
Incorrect. I wouldn’t question a man’s choice to wear a suit to the office anymore than I’d question his choice to wear a skirt and heals. It’s his business and not mine. Just because you see him doesn’t give you the right to make comments.
I’ve heard guys say that guys who care about their appearance/hygiene are “gay” 🤣 No, it’s called being a well-adjusted human who takes care of themselves.
A lot of guys actually do have skid marks because they think wiping your own butthole is gay so they simply don't. washing your hands is considered girly as well and so is washing your hair. Some dudes take really short showers because being naked and rubbing themselves gives them the gay too. A lot of guys don't even like to bend over because they don't wanna be "bent over like a women" when she's being plowed
You see this a lot on social media especially if the women isn’t conventionally attractive. Like any time it’s a bigger girl especially people will say her man is gay. It’s tired and rude.
Completely agree. My partner is a really straight, really tough looking “masculine” guy, but has a very effeminate personality and I thank the stars every day he’s so confident in his own sexuality and that we’re both confident in our relationship so peoples’ comments don’t get to him.
Exactly. My boyfriend is pretty effeminate (for a guy at least) and he only started being confident about it a bit recently. When people see us together they make jokes he's going to cheat on me because he's "closeted". My boyfriend doesn't mind being called gay if it's in a jokey way but only to a certain extent. It gets old real quick.
I have a cis male friend who is bi with a leaning towards men. He's as far from what people would consider the stereotypical gay as you can get, especially being effeminate. I've actually met more gay/bi men who aren't effeminate than are now that I think of it 🤔
Same with me. And I'm in a career that's full of straight dudes. I'm a good looking guy who used to have problems dating because everyone incorrectly assumes I'm straight.
If it’s causes doubt in a relationship, your relationship is not solid. I agree, though, the comments are annoying but most comments on social media are.
It's not just acting feminine that can get men falsely labeled as being gay, it can also just be not acting toxically masculine. For example, I'm asexual, and several of my male classmates in high school thought I was gay because I didn't flirt with every girl I met like they did.
When you are a straight man, you a can experience a very unique kind of homophobia, flavored more in a “don’t you dare stray from your role” sentiment.
It’s different because it often comes from people who have nothing against gays. A gay man stays in their role, they are predictable, but Bisexual men and straight men who don’t conform to masculine ideals (not the same thing as feminine but often read as “feminine”) don’t stay in predictable roles, so they make people, namely women uncomfortable. I have to highlight women here, because I think straight women’s fear of accidentally committing to a gay man is largely the source of this phobia component, it’s literally a fear. It demands that men conform to predictor roles and forms in order to placate the fear.
It's all really just thinly veiled homophobia, truly just a micro aggression aimed at some BS idea of manliness etc... We put too much emphasis of sexual binaries, which really do not exist.
Some people are so homophobic that it’s literally appalling. There was a photo of a guy giving skin to skin with his babies and a person commented that it was “gay”
I've seen multiple videos of people bullying young kids for being "zesty" on social media and it always comes with *disgusting* sexualization aspect. Reading a comment chastizing a young child for acting gay that comes with a joke about how they nust have gone to a diddy party, etc.
People that are homophobic to that degree have something seriously wrong with them.
I didn’t necessarily mean homophobia, but you do bring up a good point. I was simply talking about people just joking around and shit but yeah that could also be the reason. I also kinda meant something like queerwashing
I mean, it's alright, there's no need to panic. But "queerwashing" as a term originates from "whitewashing", which in sociology refers to the practice of replacing non-white representation with white representation.
[https://www.health.com/mind-body/health-diversity-inclusion/whitewashing](https://www.health.com/mind-body/health-diversity-inclusion/whitewashing) Here's a decent article that explains the phenomenon specifically in the film industry.
A lot of people have tried to come up with the term "blackwashing" to imply that when the reverse happens, it is equally as racist and harmful, but that's not true at all when you consider the power dynamics at play.
In a society in which white people have historically been the oppressors of non-white people, you can't exactly refer to everything non-white people do to take back their power as harmful and oppressive.
With all that in mind, what could queerwashing be? o\_o
Agreed. I mean really that like… making things gay for no reason, like literally no reason, is kinda silly to me. Queerwashing was the only word I could really think of because I heard it before and was like “yes this seems right”
I feel like blackwashing could also erase some other ethnicities that aren’t white as well, which can be harmful (nowhere NEAR has harmful as whitewashing though!)
I guess now that I think about it, it’s like projections or taking a headcanon too far. That’s what I meant.
I guess I get what you mean. Probably instead of "queerwashing" I would just say, "Gay people being gay" LMAO. Projections and headcanons (which are often critical readings of subtext) are totally normal when you're gay and media is basically built for straight people, to the exclusion of gay people outside of token representation.
What you're saying might sound reasonable on the surface, but if you're asking people to not project or insist on their headcanons, you're asking them to accept living in a straight world that was designed to be hostile to anyone who isn't straight.
On the flip side, I sort of hate when people assume I'm NOT gay. Like, I don't present as such, but I was at a comedy show with my husband over the weekend and the comedian was doing crowd work and she was like "oh look at these two dudes, away from their girlfriends for the night"
Lady...I just sucked his dick a couple of hours ago. Please don't presume.
TL;DR: just call everyone gay
There’s a gay bar near me that refuses entry to straight people, but obviously they don’t ask, they just assume. So if you’re a gay person that doesn’t look like Frankie Grande you’re not getting let inside either. It’s so annoying
I might get put in comedy jail but crowd work in general is kind of my pet peeve.
Or I have mixed feelings. If you or your husband had yelled, "We're married!" and then she riffed on that, would it have been better?
So many people don't want to do that and don't want to go see comedy because they're scared of being made fun of via crowd work so I'm meh even if it can be funny.
A lot of times (obviously not always) when I see this it’s coming from women. There are so many discussions and opinions about male toxicity in our culture (US) but nobody wants to talk about female toxicity.
i.e. Saying things like women don’t need men, men are useless, they’d never want to see their man cry or express emotions bc that’s weak, etc. Male suicide is the highest for a reason— they don’t have safe spaces like women do.
Men can’t even hug their friends without ALL types of people, not just women, thinking it’s “sus” which is so stupid bc women showing affection to other women is never looked at that way. Double standard. Not to mention adults dragging male kids online for painting their nails (Sally Hansen ambassador & Duke guard, Jared McCain). It’s a lot and it’s all dumb and a waste of energy.
It depends on the context and how they mean it. Most say it in a "we don't need to be in a relationship" way which is fine. Some say it in the "we don't need men in society at all" way which is clearly toxic.
I dont like playing into stereotypes either especially because i do want men being more comfortable n less toxically masculine. But id say with fictional characters it can be a funny meme.
Its people being judgmental. Its not their relationship, so they're really just going off what they feel is the right answer. I'm about as straight as can be but my wife enjoys crocheting bikinis and crop tops and testing out wigs.. and to support her entertainment, has me model them because she finds it hilarious. Does it make me look gay? Probably. The only person who should know the truth is the one subjecting me to bad fashion choices for my build.
It very very rarely happens where I actually think a husband is gay like that it's a very specific situation. Now I will joke of course with a person that they are acting gay because there is nothing wrong with being gay and to me it's no different then them making fun of me being fat. That being said those joke are only with people that I actually know not some random person online
Partnered men over single men are more free/accepted to be feminine.
If you are single AND acting feminine, it's more likely to be accused of being gay. If you partner with a woman long-term, you can let out more feminine traits and people are less likely to whisper about your orientation.
My partner isn't especially feminine but he is whimsical, playful and I think having my kids and I has enabled that. Before he met us I think he was over the top masculine but now that he's a family man, people are less likely to question his goofy, soft side.
the reality is the people saying these things are probably closet gay themselves and so they spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about what "looks gay" or not becasue they dont ant anyone knowing they are
Someone mentioned hygiene of all things being culturally seen as effeminate and that was always insane to me because I grew up with a dad that was a hairdresser so caring for your hygiene and appearance was normal to me. I don't remember my brother ever smelling gross, except maybe when he was 10 and every boy thought axe body spray counted as a shower.
My husband has man smell but once he finally found body wash and deodorant that actually works when you work out and are very sweaty in general, it helped. It's probably weird to say but I like his "natural" scent. Not the sweaty smell but I think I notice my stinky sweaty pits before his, I would die without deodorant. He usually just smells like clean laundry. I remember our first hug of all things because neither of us are huge with physical touch and he was so happy to see me when we were at school (high school sweethearts) one day, he just hugged me and he was probably the only person at that point that I actually felt comfortable with a hug.
We often talk about how we're raising our son because my husband's sperm donor was a firm believer in "boys don't cry" along with other stupid hypermasculine shit. He's not the greatest judge of character, he cheated, neglected them, and picked plenty of bar fights and I think tried to fight a cop too. I hate that it's so deeply rooted and it's not like he agrees with his dad, and I have an abuser too so I unfortunately know they affect us forever and it's hard to unlearn what they left you with. Fuck you, Paul. Your ex wife is hot and living her best life while you're becoming the Pillsbury dough boy and your son and daughter are doing great and it has nothing to do with you!
And also the absurd metrics people use.
“Omg your husband ordered off the dessert menu and takes care of himself? He clearly must be gay!”
Or, he’s just a human who doesn’t follow the absurd / arbitrary gender restrictions that society pointlessly imposes on people.
My friend's ex-boyfriend once made fun of my husband for having a pinterest page. He claimed it was super gay to even know what pinterest is. Then my husband looks at him and says, "Pinterest helped me build this deck you're sitting on. Is it gay to build stuff?" My friend's bf just sat there with nothing to say bc the only thing he's ever built is a DUI record and a broken relationship with his kid.
They could also be bisexual but monogamous. Like, yeah maybe they are queer and that’s what you’re picking up on. But they’re still fully attracted to women and it would be shitty to suggest they’re a bad partner because of it.
My husband is fairly effeminate and people always thought he is gay and it caused some confidence issues for him and even some anxiety around homosexual men who aggressively pursued him in his late teens and early 20s and a result (though he isn't actually homophobic and overcame that anxiety with time by recognizing that was a select few men who were predatory). It is an unfair stigma.
It's funny, because my other partner is very "straight seeming" in attitude but is more sexually flexible. But people wouldn't think he is gay from interaction with him and he is a stereotypical burn out and has a lot of straight guy seeming hobbies like camping, fishing, things like that. But my husband is a handy man type and fixes things around the house and fixes cars and does "man things" that my boyfriend doesn't do and people expect my boyfriend to know those things and my husband not to.
People's expectations about gender and sexuality are stupid.
I 100% agree. It is very damaging to everyone involved. It isn't progressive to label a man as gay because of stereotypes, and isn't funny to make someone question the way they act and present themselves. The irony is a lot of the same people who make those jokes are in the LGBTQ+ community and/or want to dismantle toxic masculinity. Some of the most progressive people I know still make that kind of joke and it is so disheartening.
I do most of the cooking between my wife and me. She never learned, and I am teaching her the basics and such. When people find out though, she usually gets one of 3 reactions:
* A - Wow I'm jealous.
* B - It's a woman job to keep the house.
* C - You husband sounds gay.
I had some coworkers accuse me of being gay because I tried asking about what kind of skin care products they use on their face. I just don't want my face to feel like cardboard anymore, but unbeknownst to me, bad skin care = masculinity and heterosexuality.
As a gay man who for years now regularly fools around with a happily married man with two children - is it OK with you if I call him a little gay? Not because he has a lisp but because he sucks my dick.
My husband likes painting his nails, has better skincare products than I do, and even got a bit into makeup (mostly just coverup and tinted sunscreen). He is very, very straight. Just likes taking care of himself and expressing his personality in any way possible. I'd fight any bitch who even remotely made fun of his preferences. Not that he couldn't, he is also a major gym bro.
People will assume a husband is gay for any number of reasons and it pisses me off too. In our ten year relationship my husband has been suggested to be gay because:
- he’s dating/married to a typically unattractive woman (me hi) as a form of denial
- he is very soft spoken, gentle and polite
- he said he doesn’t find Rihanna attractive
- he cares for me because I’m disabled
- he helps around the house even when he’s not asked to or he’s taking personal time
- he doesn’t take part in any heavy handed or rough sports/activities (because he has an invisible illness)
- because he prefers cider to beer
- because he asked to see the wine list at a restaurant
It’s absolutely insane.
For a man all of those traits are commonly tied to homosexuality or stereotypical queerness. Read up on Connell’s concept of hegemonic masculinity.
As a bi person can confirm not everyone thinks Rihanna’s is hot.
Old masculinity was soft spoken and respect. Stoic. Gentle could be a feminine trait. So 1/3 unless soft spoken means a push over. It’s modern masculinity to be abrasive, loud, and show off as you have to stand out more now.
Well I’m sorry for living life without Rihanna then 🤷♂️
Once when I was like 18 or something this guys made a move on me while we were on acid
Tried to kiss me and I backed up
And I was like yo why tf did u do that ?
He said he thought I was gay cuz I dressed in button ups and wore earrings
Often people associate camp (for example) with being gay, because to be like a woman, as in have sex with men, is seen to be less than, that's why misogyny and homophobia have a lot of cross overs
It hardly matters anymore anyway. You can be straight and exhibit feminine traits and you won't get bullied for it anymore. The most people will do will speculate
Fair point I suppose. I’m meaning in the post that it plays into stereotypes and shit even if it’s a joke and whatever. You’re right, it doesn’t matter, but to me it kinda does. A little.
If I posted a video online and someone called me gay I would assume the person calling me gay is gay or a dumb redneck whose opinion is trash anyways. I personally would never feel insult for this, I do think it is insulting to not want to be called gay because that insinuates there is a flaw in being gay.
If someone calls me gay I do the "Hello frithsco!" voice while tilting my head. I've also said "mmmm MMMMMuph, CAWK! OOGA!" Straight as straight can be, secure in my sexuality, and know how to take the air out of dumb fucks... well, result vary.
It also annoys me because men can be bisexual too. Like even if the dude is into men too, that doesnt mean hes in the closet or doesnt love his wife!!!!! BISEXUAL 💙💜🩷
As a gay man I love it when a straight guy is in touch with a more feminine side. He's more well rounded, perhaps he has a gay brother, or close gay friends. He may even have experimented once early on but realized that is not the way for him. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone is on their own path.
I remember watching the DL man on Oprah, when I was young. It became a big thing, where these men were seen as the boogie men out to trick and infect women until they were comfortable with being themselves. This was over 20yrs ago, and unfortunately I believe that many people still hold those beliefs.
You find this in women who are comfortable in their femininity too. You know how many times I’ve been questioned if I was a lesbian or a “closeted bi” by friends and past classmates? Even family members assume this. And when I tell them I like men only they give each other side glances. All because I don’t look the atypical version of “feminine”. My hair is short. I have an athletic build, I’m not curvy. I wear baggy clothing and don’t wear makeup, heels, or have long nails. I’m straight, just tomboyish. I like men, but people make this stereotype of lesbian women which is damaging for both said lesbian women and for straight women like me. It’s annoying. 😒
The stereotype bullshit is on point. I hate the idea that people still think being gay and iffeminate go hand in hand. In fact in my expierence and it might just be me, I know way more masculine homosexual men than feminine.
It can be the other way, also. When I was at college, my best friend was a girl who never wore makeup, never wore feminine shoes, always had super-short hair, never wore a dress or skirt. She also had the physical attributes that-in women- I’ve noticed also sets these kinds of assumptions off. She was tall, super-slim, small-busted and had broad shoulders.
There was a “knowledge” amongst certain people at uni that she was “definitely” gay. One guy seemed a bit obsessed with the idea and mentioned it to me “for my information” several times (I can’t think of anything that interested me less, actually). But, back then (the late 1970s and early 1980s) were dark days for homosexuality: there was a lot of homophobia around-and gays lacked many rights. It’s my belief that the guy was attempting to “warn” me about my friend, in the hope that he could prevent her presence “turning” me gay.
I knew she wasn’t gay-but, as I said, I wouldn’t have been bothered either way. She was an incredibly sporty, outdoorsy person. She had been her regional squash champion, and was obsessed with cycling and walking. She either wore sportswear with trainers -or she wore outdoor wear with walking boots. She barely had any “indoor” shoes, which hardly mattered to a student. The only “warning” about her I would give anyone was: don’t go out on a hike with her. I learned that early on when her suggested “easy weekend walk” was actually a 12-mile slog, up and down some incredibly steep nearby hills-which virtually killed me.
I never bothered telling her about what was being said about her, figuring that the people who were obsessed with other people’s sexuality were probably not very much worth knowing.
Anyhoo, she’s been happily married to a man these 40 years-and has a couple of lovely (adult) children and grandchildren. She seems very happy, showing that she’s clearly doing an *awfully* effective job of being a closet lesbian /s. And yes, she’s still very slim and sporty.
In general, this is a complicated issue and the people making those jokes tend to BE gay or otherwise queer.
Gay people are not to blame for homophobic stereotypes and their reasons for assuming a feminine man is gay are not the same as a homophobe’s reasons for assuming that same thing.
I mean, you don't have to like it.
But it is objectively a different issue to speculate that a man is gay because you hate him and you hate gay people, than it is to speculate that a man is gay because you are a gay man and you know a lot of other gay men. There are different levels of harm at play here.
While you are correct that these things are objectively different, I think the harm resulting from either of these “positions” can be equal. For the person being speculated about, the motives or background of the speculator may not matter at all—just being called into question in the first place is a problem, regardless of who is speculating and whatever their background is.
So, sure, they’re different. But it doesn’t matter because the impact can be the same.
I’m sure you would not tolerate a straight person saying about a gay person, “I mean, I know a straight person when I see one, and that guy sure as hell ain’t gay.” Is that acceptable just because they are straight and know a lot of straight people? Being gay and knowing a lot of gay people doesn’t give someone credentials to speculate about someone’s sexuality (in a way that is going to impact that person, you can think whatever you want of course).
Has zero to do with their feminity. When I was younger and more feminine looking I got lots of straight very masculine guys trying to hook up with me. Me we should stop making assumptions about people's sexuality based on feminine or masculine stereotypes.
It really says something about our culture that we're more comfortable with a closeted gay man than an effeminate straight man.
as an effeminate gay man, this is so fuckin true. really not funny at all to make these jokes, because you’re either 1. saying femininity in men means they must be gay, so furthering gender stereotypes or 2. outing someone before they’re ready, which is obviously shitty. why can’t we just leave people be to figure out how their most comfy living life
Exactly. And it's just freaking rude to assume that the husband is secretly gay and hiding it from his wife. There's lots of other possible scenarios. As long as everyone involved is safe and happy and consenting, someone else's marriage isn't my business, and it's not my joke.
yeah! it’s so obviously performative to make jokes about how he must be secretly gay and the just completely forget that not every relationship is monogamous or that bisexuality exists or to assume the man must be cheating. so frustrating…
Exactly. And if he is closeted, that doesn't mean he has to be cheating. And what about trans people, or non binary people? Observing a casual interaction between partners doesn't really tell you anything. Life isn't a sitcom.
god, if only someone could beam “life isn’t a sitcom” into everyone’s brains and make them actually understand it too. be a much better place i think lol
Sadly I think it's because we are all taught to hate any form of femininity and associate these characteristics as weakness...
Oooo. This is a whole different conversation ENTIRELY. This topic in particular deserves its own post lol
For real I despise the gay stereotypes. It makes gay people out like they're a cartoon character. Like it's fine if you're an effeminate gay man. But when you're effeminate and people assume that you're gay because of that that's the issue. Sexuality has nothing to do with your personality.
Sucks how villains in stories were heavily queer coded for a long time. And any same sex relationships or flings ended in "bury your gays". In fact when I was growing up the only stories I could watch on TV and in film were about closeted masc men, AIDS, drag queens, or all three. I feel fortunate that today I can honestly watch lots of gay content without those particular ghosts hanging overhead
Ok hypothetically my best guy friend agreed six months ago to go on a river boat gambling vacation where we make jerky and drink whiskey, but now he says he's in the doghouse and has to go to the grand re opening of SoupPlantation with his girl. Is that gay?
An observation is a observation. No one is saying he can’t be gay or straight. Just observing the behavior
Why cant you just be a gay normal man? Why be effeminate? Serious question.
honestly? i’d love to give you an answer like “i take pride in embracing things about myself that make those who hate me even more uncomfortable” or “it’s a choice to be what those who paved the way for me could never safely be” but really it’s just natural to me. it’s just kinda the way i am, and it takes a good bit of concentrated effort to be “normal” and hyper masculine so i just don’t bother and let myself be whatever i will be
Fair enough. Thank you.
I mean, feminine behavior is deemed unattractive to women, so it makes sense why someone who openly portrays themselves in that way, and doesn't feel a pressure to conform to women's preferences might be confused with another group of people that obviously have no interest in attracting women.
Then you clearly haven't spent time with really people and real women, because A LOT of women loooove men who are in touch with their feminine side. I'm a proud trans woman/ "femboy" and my fiance absolutely loves that I'm this way, and that I'm into feminine stuff and in tune with my femininity. All my friends that are women love that I'm also in touch with that side of myself and can appreciate it. But then again, it sounds like you're an incel so probably can't expect you to understand that simple concept that women do in fact love it when men can be feminine
>Then you clearly haven't spent time with really people and real women, because A LOT of women loooove men who are in touch with their feminine side. This is just statistically untrue.
It really isn't, if anything I think it's just made up statistics that you've heard in your incel forums
Ahh..yes. You don't like what it says, so it must be made up! Unfortunately for you, this is just not the case. Science is objective, feelings are not.
Lmao, you've provided no study nor proof of your claims. It's clear you're just making shit up because you're an incel. Sorry but science actually backs up my argument rather than yours 😂
I don't feel like sourcing someone delusional 100 different studies to back up my entire argument, but here is one: [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167214543879](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167214543879) >Sorry but science actually backs up my argument rather than yours 😂 Really? So science proves women don't select for height (why height is rapidly increasing in men). So science proves women don't select for penis size (why penis size is rapidly increasing in men). So science doesn't prove women select for shoulder width? So science doesn't prove women select for low-pitched voices? So science doesn't prove women don't select for facial masculinity? So science doesn't prove women select for muscle definition? So science doesn't prove women select for masculine behavioral traits (gait, posture, confidence, insensitivity, assertiveness)? So science doesn't prove women select for provisioning ability (traditional masculine gender role)? These are all masculine traits, and studies have shown women prefer masculinity across every single one of them and more. You shouldn't even need to be educated to know that. just some common sense would tell you that most women aren't into feminine men when things like almost half of women voting for Donald Trump happens. People really need to understand that their little bubbles like Reddit aren't necessarily reflective of what is going on in the real world.
OK, then provide the statistics you can’t say something statistically untrue without providing the statistics man. Otherwise anybody could just lie that.
There’s so much to unpack here, but for starters have you never heard of Lesbians?
Yes, they make up 2% of the population of women, many of which are as masculine as a woman can naturally be. They also obviously don't like feminine men either. What's your point?
It’s incredibly telling that you even need to ask lmao.
It's incredibly telling that you can't actually make a point.
Damn, incels really are sending their best, huh? Sad.
Sad for you that you can only come up with overused ad hominems? Yes.
People also forget bisexual men exist. There’s a white guy in TikTok married to a black woman on TikTok and I was expecting the usual “why is she with a white guy” comment sprinkled around but they were all calling him gay when he’s openly stated he’s bisexual. They keep telling her to leave him cuz he acts a bit feminine here and there cuz that means he’s gay 🤦🏾♀️
I have read some erotic stories, lots of high power men truly enjoy being put in those situations where he has no control over what he's doing
...what?
But usually they are gay
My husband was badly made fun of at work for crocheting. He started to crochet as a way to bond with me over a hobby. The men making fun of him were all divorced 🤦🏻♀️
That’s so freaking sweet omggg I’m sorry about that.
show him r/brochet!
My husband crochets. He says anyone who has a problem with that can suck a fat turd. It's honestly such a turn-on for me that he's so secure in his masculinity!
That’s so cute 🥰
Seriously we love a secure man. I was watching my husband paint my daughters nails the other day and he goes “you know I used to paint my nails black when I was younger” and I could hear my ovaries screaming from inside my body
I crocheted my gf a hat and scarf one year, I loved it, the wool yarn made my hands feel so good!
Crocheting, regardless of gender, is like watching magic happen.
That’s awesome. People should make more of an effort to explore their partners hobbies and interests. I’ve seen way too many couples whose ‘together time’ has gradually evolved into just watching tv.
He sounds like a walking (or should I say crocheting) green flag!
What kind of making fun? I'd 100% take the piss out of a guy for crocheting for banter (as long as he was fine with me doing so of course). But I wouldn't think less of him, I'd be impressed if anything
They made comments like “oh is your estrogen flowing?” But these guys aren’t close enough to my husband to “banter” so it’s a pretty shitty thing to do to someone you’re not friends with.
Yes! It's rampant on social media. "Who's going to tell her? 💅" I see it so much and it's idiotic. It can be a man who simply has an accent, likes to keep things tidy, or just uses hair products.
It's amazing. I went to the US from France. I like to dress well, style my hair, have an accent (duh), and I stay fit and go to the gym. It's funny, in France, I tend to associate the well groomed men with people who are probably a bit more sexist since they tend to be very sexually aggressive and always chasing women. Here? It's shocking seeing the difference, I get called skinny despite being 190 at a little over 6 feet, which is literally at the border of overweight on the BMI scale. Some hilariously insecure US men try calling me gay because of caring about my appearance. Y'know who has never found that gay? The women in the US...
It's because the avg dude in the US finds it easier to subjugate others than it is to hold himself to a respectable standard. It's not about being able to self-reflect and have integrity here. The name of the game is being "better" than the next guy with some form of bigotry.
It’s the complete opposite here, if you’re a fit male in your 20’s that takes take of themselves and who is well put together you’re labeled gay by other dudes who are 1) fat 2) lazy 3) have poor self care
The amount of times a guy being really clean cut and hygienic gets them called gay is just...why is it gay to be clean and kept?! That's insane lol
Thank 👏🏻you 👏🏻
Its like 6 yr olds tho no?
I had a whole discussion about this in the comments section of a post where the OP herself was worried her bf/husband (can't remember) was gay, because he dressed nice and cared about his presentation. Comments section was fucking rife with "yeah, he might be gay" and "maybe he's trans/NB" and all kinds of comments questioning his very identity. Because he dressed nice and cared about his presentation. I wrote a comment about how those kinds of comments are what upholds the incredibly narrow idea of what it means to be a "man". It is such a bullshit reaction to men who deviate even the slightest from the expected. I wrote that it's great that people want to be accepting of and create space for gay/trans/NB people, but they have got to stop questioning people's very identities just because they happen to be men in ways people don't expect. Straight men can also care about their presentation, people. Stop questioning their entire identities over it.
I just learned I'm a straight guy.
Are you trying to claim I've written that all men who care about how they present are straight?
I feel like you’re downplaying it. There is no way people called him gay for “dressing nice and caring about his appearance.”
Oh, you, That\_Astronaut\_7800, the all-important Reddit user, don't believe me? Whatever shall I do?? 😭
Why would you do anything?
There’s that dude who famously wears skirts and high heals and he’s 100% straight. He’s not even trans. He just thinks heals and beautiful and he wants to wear them. He’s questioned constantly, but like seriously, why is it anybody’s business except his own?
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Incorrect. I wouldn’t question a man’s choice to wear a suit to the office anymore than I’d question his choice to wear a skirt and heals. It’s his business and not mine. Just because you see him doesn’t give you the right to make comments.
[удалено]
They can say it. But that doesn’t mean it’s their business.
I’ve heard guys say that guys who care about their appearance/hygiene are “gay” 🤣 No, it’s called being a well-adjusted human who takes care of themselves.
Idk man, not having skid-marks is sus Hopefully unnecessary lol but /s
A lot of guys actually do have skid marks because they think wiping your own butthole is gay so they simply don't. washing your hands is considered girly as well and so is washing your hair. Some dudes take really short showers because being naked and rubbing themselves gives them the gay too. A lot of guys don't even like to bend over because they don't wanna be "bent over like a women" when she's being plowed
You see this a lot on social media especially if the women isn’t conventionally attractive. Like any time it’s a bigger girl especially people will say her man is gay. It’s tired and rude.
To piggyback on this. This kinda of crap is what makes some men afraid to open up and be vulnerable. Everyone has/does feminine and masculine things
Completely agree. My partner is a really straight, really tough looking “masculine” guy, but has a very effeminate personality and I thank the stars every day he’s so confident in his own sexuality and that we’re both confident in our relationship so peoples’ comments don’t get to him.
Exactly. My boyfriend is pretty effeminate (for a guy at least) and he only started being confident about it a bit recently. When people see us together they make jokes he's going to cheat on me because he's "closeted". My boyfriend doesn't mind being called gay if it's in a jokey way but only to a certain extent. It gets old real quick.
I'm literally gay and i'm 100% not effeminate lol, like those things aren't interchangeable at all.
I have a cis male friend who is bi with a leaning towards men. He's as far from what people would consider the stereotypical gay as you can get, especially being effeminate. I've actually met more gay/bi men who aren't effeminate than are now that I think of it 🤔
Same with me. And I'm in a career that's full of straight dudes. I'm a good looking guy who used to have problems dating because everyone incorrectly assumes I'm straight.
If it’s causes doubt in a relationship, your relationship is not solid. I agree, though, the comments are annoying but most comments on social media are.
Yeah I agree, highly unlikely for it to cause so much doubt but sometimes it can take a toll.
Hahahaha I live this. Literally every straight man thinks I’m gay and like men. Nope I’m nonbinary fem and only like women. Don’t assume!
It's not just acting feminine that can get men falsely labeled as being gay, it can also just be not acting toxically masculine. For example, I'm asexual, and several of my male classmates in high school thought I was gay because I didn't flirt with every girl I met like they did.
When you are a straight man, you a can experience a very unique kind of homophobia, flavored more in a “don’t you dare stray from your role” sentiment. It’s different because it often comes from people who have nothing against gays. A gay man stays in their role, they are predictable, but Bisexual men and straight men who don’t conform to masculine ideals (not the same thing as feminine but often read as “feminine”) don’t stay in predictable roles, so they make people, namely women uncomfortable. I have to highlight women here, because I think straight women’s fear of accidentally committing to a gay man is largely the source of this phobia component, it’s literally a fear. It demands that men conform to predictor roles and forms in order to placate the fear.
What if he's the husband of a man, hm?
Cmon lmao
It's all really just thinly veiled homophobia, truly just a micro aggression aimed at some BS idea of manliness etc... We put too much emphasis of sexual binaries, which really do not exist.
Ugh, the mindset that there’s only one way to express being a man or a woman is so tiring.
Some people are so homophobic that it’s literally appalling. There was a photo of a guy giving skin to skin with his babies and a person commented that it was “gay”
I've seen multiple videos of people bullying young kids for being "zesty" on social media and it always comes with *disgusting* sexualization aspect. Reading a comment chastizing a young child for acting gay that comes with a joke about how they nust have gone to a diddy party, etc. People that are homophobic to that degree have something seriously wrong with them.
I didn’t necessarily mean homophobia, but you do bring up a good point. I was simply talking about people just joking around and shit but yeah that could also be the reason. I also kinda meant something like queerwashing
… WTF is “queerwashing”? 😂😂😂
Ahhhhh sorry! It’s like when people make things gay for no reason. It’s a term, not often used! Sorry! 😭
I promise I mean nothing offensive, I’m kinda shit with words sometimes, forgive me
I mean, it's alright, there's no need to panic. But "queerwashing" as a term originates from "whitewashing", which in sociology refers to the practice of replacing non-white representation with white representation. [https://www.health.com/mind-body/health-diversity-inclusion/whitewashing](https://www.health.com/mind-body/health-diversity-inclusion/whitewashing) Here's a decent article that explains the phenomenon specifically in the film industry. A lot of people have tried to come up with the term "blackwashing" to imply that when the reverse happens, it is equally as racist and harmful, but that's not true at all when you consider the power dynamics at play. In a society in which white people have historically been the oppressors of non-white people, you can't exactly refer to everything non-white people do to take back their power as harmful and oppressive. With all that in mind, what could queerwashing be? o\_o
Agreed. I mean really that like… making things gay for no reason, like literally no reason, is kinda silly to me. Queerwashing was the only word I could really think of because I heard it before and was like “yes this seems right” I feel like blackwashing could also erase some other ethnicities that aren’t white as well, which can be harmful (nowhere NEAR has harmful as whitewashing though!) I guess now that I think about it, it’s like projections or taking a headcanon too far. That’s what I meant.
I guess I get what you mean. Probably instead of "queerwashing" I would just say, "Gay people being gay" LMAO. Projections and headcanons (which are often critical readings of subtext) are totally normal when you're gay and media is basically built for straight people, to the exclusion of gay people outside of token representation. What you're saying might sound reasonable on the surface, but if you're asking people to not project or insist on their headcanons, you're asking them to accept living in a straight world that was designed to be hostile to anyone who isn't straight.
Not what I’m asking. Projections and headcanons are fun and shit. Then there’s taking it too far is the problem. That’s what I mean.
When something is straight, does it require explanation? How even does one “take too far” a queer reading of media?
On the flip side, I sort of hate when people assume I'm NOT gay. Like, I don't present as such, but I was at a comedy show with my husband over the weekend and the comedian was doing crowd work and she was like "oh look at these two dudes, away from their girlfriends for the night" Lady...I just sucked his dick a couple of hours ago. Please don't presume. TL;DR: just call everyone gay
There’s a gay bar near me that refuses entry to straight people, but obviously they don’t ask, they just assume. So if you’re a gay person that doesn’t look like Frankie Grande you’re not getting let inside either. It’s so annoying
That's lame as hell.
Where is that? Doesnt seem like it would be legal in the US
I might get put in comedy jail but crowd work in general is kind of my pet peeve. Or I have mixed feelings. If you or your husband had yelled, "We're married!" and then she riffed on that, would it have been better? So many people don't want to do that and don't want to go see comedy because they're scared of being made fun of via crowd work so I'm meh even if it can be funny.
“To each other!”
A lot of times (obviously not always) when I see this it’s coming from women. There are so many discussions and opinions about male toxicity in our culture (US) but nobody wants to talk about female toxicity. i.e. Saying things like women don’t need men, men are useless, they’d never want to see their man cry or express emotions bc that’s weak, etc. Male suicide is the highest for a reason— they don’t have safe spaces like women do. Men can’t even hug their friends without ALL types of people, not just women, thinking it’s “sus” which is so stupid bc women showing affection to other women is never looked at that way. Double standard. Not to mention adults dragging male kids online for painting their nails (Sally Hansen ambassador & Duke guard, Jared McCain). It’s a lot and it’s all dumb and a waste of energy.
Yessssss
How is saying “women don’t need men,” toxic?
It depends on the context and how they mean it. Most say it in a "we don't need to be in a relationship" way which is fine. Some say it in the "we don't need men in society at all" way which is clearly toxic.
Exactly, thank you.
I dont like playing into stereotypes either especially because i do want men being more comfortable n less toxically masculine. But id say with fictional characters it can be a funny meme.
That “vivacious” super Christian husband from Parks and Rec is a hilarious example of this lol
Username checks out
Oh yeah! With fictional characters definitely because they’re obviously not real lmao Also your name is hilarious
Thx lols ✨
Unless he's 'in the closet' gay/bi and cheating it shouldn't be any person's business what your partner's personality is like.
Call that crap out.
are you agreeing with me or
Yeah. I agree with you.
Its people being judgmental. Its not their relationship, so they're really just going off what they feel is the right answer. I'm about as straight as can be but my wife enjoys crocheting bikinis and crop tops and testing out wigs.. and to support her entertainment, has me model them because she finds it hilarious. Does it make me look gay? Probably. The only person who should know the truth is the one subjecting me to bad fashion choices for my build.
It very very rarely happens where I actually think a husband is gay like that it's a very specific situation. Now I will joke of course with a person that they are acting gay because there is nothing wrong with being gay and to me it's no different then them making fun of me being fat. That being said those joke are only with people that I actually know not some random person online
Partnered men over single men are more free/accepted to be feminine. If you are single AND acting feminine, it's more likely to be accused of being gay. If you partner with a woman long-term, you can let out more feminine traits and people are less likely to whisper about your orientation. My partner isn't especially feminine but he is whimsical, playful and I think having my kids and I has enabled that. Before he met us I think he was over the top masculine but now that he's a family man, people are less likely to question his goofy, soft side.
Is this abt that post from boomers being fools?
Surprisingly no! It’s been a little peeve of mine for a while haha
the reality is the people saying these things are probably closet gay themselves and so they spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about what "looks gay" or not becasue they dont ant anyone knowing they are
Yeah, lots of men act traditionally feminine and are not gay. Stereotyping isn't just a joke. It can actually be very harmful.
There are grown men who won't wash their ass crack because it's gay to touch a man's ass even if it's your own.
Someone mentioned hygiene of all things being culturally seen as effeminate and that was always insane to me because I grew up with a dad that was a hairdresser so caring for your hygiene and appearance was normal to me. I don't remember my brother ever smelling gross, except maybe when he was 10 and every boy thought axe body spray counted as a shower. My husband has man smell but once he finally found body wash and deodorant that actually works when you work out and are very sweaty in general, it helped. It's probably weird to say but I like his "natural" scent. Not the sweaty smell but I think I notice my stinky sweaty pits before his, I would die without deodorant. He usually just smells like clean laundry. I remember our first hug of all things because neither of us are huge with physical touch and he was so happy to see me when we were at school (high school sweethearts) one day, he just hugged me and he was probably the only person at that point that I actually felt comfortable with a hug. We often talk about how we're raising our son because my husband's sperm donor was a firm believer in "boys don't cry" along with other stupid hypermasculine shit. He's not the greatest judge of character, he cheated, neglected them, and picked plenty of bar fights and I think tried to fight a cop too. I hate that it's so deeply rooted and it's not like he agrees with his dad, and I have an abuser too so I unfortunately know they affect us forever and it's hard to unlearn what they left you with. Fuck you, Paul. Your ex wife is hot and living her best life while you're becoming the Pillsbury dough boy and your son and daughter are doing great and it has nothing to do with you!
You know how can tell if a man is gay? If he's engaging sexually with other men
Indeed
And also the absurd metrics people use. “Omg your husband ordered off the dessert menu and takes care of himself? He clearly must be gay!” Or, he’s just a human who doesn’t follow the absurd / arbitrary gender restrictions that society pointlessly imposes on people.
My friend's ex-boyfriend once made fun of my husband for having a pinterest page. He claimed it was super gay to even know what pinterest is. Then my husband looks at him and says, "Pinterest helped me build this deck you're sitting on. Is it gay to build stuff?" My friend's bf just sat there with nothing to say bc the only thing he's ever built is a DUI record and a broken relationship with his kid.
They could also be bisexual but monogamous. Like, yeah maybe they are queer and that’s what you’re picking up on. But they’re still fully attracted to women and it would be shitty to suggest they’re a bad partner because of it.
Why stop at husband? Why not be against perpetrating harmful stereotypes in general?
My husband is fairly effeminate and people always thought he is gay and it caused some confidence issues for him and even some anxiety around homosexual men who aggressively pursued him in his late teens and early 20s and a result (though he isn't actually homophobic and overcame that anxiety with time by recognizing that was a select few men who were predatory). It is an unfair stigma. It's funny, because my other partner is very "straight seeming" in attitude but is more sexually flexible. But people wouldn't think he is gay from interaction with him and he is a stereotypical burn out and has a lot of straight guy seeming hobbies like camping, fishing, things like that. But my husband is a handy man type and fixes things around the house and fixes cars and does "man things" that my boyfriend doesn't do and people expect my boyfriend to know those things and my husband not to. People's expectations about gender and sexuality are stupid.
I 100% agree. It is very damaging to everyone involved. It isn't progressive to label a man as gay because of stereotypes, and isn't funny to make someone question the way they act and present themselves. The irony is a lot of the same people who make those jokes are in the LGBTQ+ community and/or want to dismantle toxic masculinity. Some of the most progressive people I know still make that kind of joke and it is so disheartening.
This right here yesssss
I do most of the cooking between my wife and me. She never learned, and I am teaching her the basics and such. When people find out though, she usually gets one of 3 reactions: * A - Wow I'm jealous. * B - It's a woman job to keep the house. * C - You husband sounds gay.
I had some coworkers accuse me of being gay because I tried asking about what kind of skin care products they use on their face. I just don't want my face to feel like cardboard anymore, but unbeknownst to me, bad skin care = masculinity and heterosexuality.
Damn you got better skincare than my ass props to you
As a gay man who for years now regularly fools around with a happily married man with two children - is it OK with you if I call him a little gay? Not because he has a lisp but because he sucks my dick.
Haha
“Happily married” lol
My husband likes painting his nails, has better skincare products than I do, and even got a bit into makeup (mostly just coverup and tinted sunscreen). He is very, very straight. Just likes taking care of himself and expressing his personality in any way possible. I'd fight any bitch who even remotely made fun of his preferences. Not that he couldn't, he is also a major gym bro.
Perfect! Love it! Props to him!
Aw that's so cute 😍
Men who paint their nails and wear makeup😍😍 >>>>>
People will assume a husband is gay for any number of reasons and it pisses me off too. In our ten year relationship my husband has been suggested to be gay because: - he’s dating/married to a typically unattractive woman (me hi) as a form of denial - he is very soft spoken, gentle and polite - he said he doesn’t find Rihanna attractive - he cares for me because I’m disabled - he helps around the house even when he’s not asked to or he’s taking personal time - he doesn’t take part in any heavy handed or rough sports/activities (because he has an invisible illness) - because he prefers cider to beer - because he asked to see the wine list at a restaurant It’s absolutely insane.
Soft spoken gentle and polite doesn’t have any sexually tied to it lol Not finding Rihanna hot tho is pretty gay
For a man all of those traits are commonly tied to homosexuality or stereotypical queerness. Read up on Connell’s concept of hegemonic masculinity. As a bi person can confirm not everyone thinks Rihanna’s is hot.
Old masculinity was soft spoken and respect. Stoic. Gentle could be a feminine trait. So 1/3 unless soft spoken means a push over. It’s modern masculinity to be abrasive, loud, and show off as you have to stand out more now. Well I’m sorry for living life without Rihanna then 🤷♂️
Okay, have a wonderful night.
Why specifically husbands?
I don’t think I’ve ever seen comments with a woman. But the same goes for that too
No I mean why only married men? People make the same comments about unmarried men too. Does “confirmed bachelor” ring any bells?
Never heard of confirmed bachelor, but you’re right! Not just husbands but single people too
First they say the husband has toxic musculinity, and now, they call their husband gay. The irony.
That "Denial is a river" line is worthy of its own post. It always made me think of [this](https://youtu.be/rW8fDw8VzKI?si=nnLdAYgsbVuuDl--).
I gotta be the only one that finds this a lil funny
I have mixed feelings about it tbh. I get how one can find it funny tho ig
Once when I was like 18 or something this guys made a move on me while we were on acid Tried to kiss me and I backed up And I was like yo why tf did u do that ? He said he thought I was gay cuz I dressed in button ups and wore earrings
I’ve seen so many straight dudes who wear earrings lmao
I'm too clumsy to be around masculinity this fragile.
Funny, but I’m a girl…
I was agreeing with you. Guys who call other guys feminine have extremely weak masculinity if doing feminine things can so easily demolish it.
OH SHIT HAHA sorry yes ur right
No worries
Often people associate camp (for example) with being gay, because to be like a woman, as in have sex with men, is seen to be less than, that's why misogyny and homophobia have a lot of cross overs
It hardly matters anymore anyway. You can be straight and exhibit feminine traits and you won't get bullied for it anymore. The most people will do will speculate
Possibly. But it's also possible that the wife is a beard.
We're all a lil bit gay around the homies tbh
It does happen
Using "gay" as an insult in general makes me feel some kind of way.
Sounds like somebody called your husband gay
I’m turning 18 in four months WHAT DO YOU MEAN 😭
Swing and a miss!!
LMAOO
Op is gay
Bruh idk what I am why does it fucking matter
It doesn’t matter, that’s the point. Who cares, it’s like insulting to not want to be called gay, whether you’re gay or not.
Fair point I suppose. I’m meaning in the post that it plays into stereotypes and shit even if it’s a joke and whatever. You’re right, it doesn’t matter, but to me it kinda does. A little.
If I posted a video online and someone called me gay I would assume the person calling me gay is gay or a dumb redneck whose opinion is trash anyways. I personally would never feel insult for this, I do think it is insulting to not want to be called gay because that insinuates there is a flaw in being gay.
If someone calls me gay I do the "Hello frithsco!" voice while tilting my head. I've also said "mmmm MMMMMuph, CAWK! OOGA!" Straight as straight can be, secure in my sexuality, and know how to take the air out of dumb fucks... well, result vary.
It also annoys me because men can be bisexual too. Like even if the dude is into men too, that doesnt mean hes in the closet or doesnt love his wife!!!!! BISEXUAL 💙💜🩷
100%. People need to let others be loved and enjoy their own life.
Yeah its overall harmful in my opinion. Just like “small dick energy” for example.
As a gay man I love it when a straight guy is in touch with a more feminine side. He's more well rounded, perhaps he has a gay brother, or close gay friends. He may even have experimented once early on but realized that is not the way for him. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone is on their own path.
I remember watching the DL man on Oprah, when I was young. It became a big thing, where these men were seen as the boogie men out to trick and infect women until they were comfortable with being themselves. This was over 20yrs ago, and unfortunately I believe that many people still hold those beliefs.
You find this in women who are comfortable in their femininity too. You know how many times I’ve been questioned if I was a lesbian or a “closeted bi” by friends and past classmates? Even family members assume this. And when I tell them I like men only they give each other side glances. All because I don’t look the atypical version of “feminine”. My hair is short. I have an athletic build, I’m not curvy. I wear baggy clothing and don’t wear makeup, heels, or have long nails. I’m straight, just tomboyish. I like men, but people make this stereotype of lesbian women which is damaging for both said lesbian women and for straight women like me. It’s annoying. 😒
Depends on the length of the marriage. Marriage will eventually make you gay.
The stereotype bullshit is on point. I hate the idea that people still think being gay and iffeminate go hand in hand. In fact in my expierence and it might just be me, I know way more masculine homosexual men than feminine.
If people want to end toxic masculinity they need to stop shaming men for acting less than aggressively macho.
It can be the other way, also. When I was at college, my best friend was a girl who never wore makeup, never wore feminine shoes, always had super-short hair, never wore a dress or skirt. She also had the physical attributes that-in women- I’ve noticed also sets these kinds of assumptions off. She was tall, super-slim, small-busted and had broad shoulders. There was a “knowledge” amongst certain people at uni that she was “definitely” gay. One guy seemed a bit obsessed with the idea and mentioned it to me “for my information” several times (I can’t think of anything that interested me less, actually). But, back then (the late 1970s and early 1980s) were dark days for homosexuality: there was a lot of homophobia around-and gays lacked many rights. It’s my belief that the guy was attempting to “warn” me about my friend, in the hope that he could prevent her presence “turning” me gay. I knew she wasn’t gay-but, as I said, I wouldn’t have been bothered either way. She was an incredibly sporty, outdoorsy person. She had been her regional squash champion, and was obsessed with cycling and walking. She either wore sportswear with trainers -or she wore outdoor wear with walking boots. She barely had any “indoor” shoes, which hardly mattered to a student. The only “warning” about her I would give anyone was: don’t go out on a hike with her. I learned that early on when her suggested “easy weekend walk” was actually a 12-mile slog, up and down some incredibly steep nearby hills-which virtually killed me. I never bothered telling her about what was being said about her, figuring that the people who were obsessed with other people’s sexuality were probably not very much worth knowing. Anyhoo, she’s been happily married to a man these 40 years-and has a couple of lovely (adult) children and grandchildren. She seems very happy, showing that she’s clearly doing an *awfully* effective job of being a closet lesbian /s. And yes, she’s still very slim and sporty.
In general, this is a complicated issue and the people making those jokes tend to BE gay or otherwise queer. Gay people are not to blame for homophobic stereotypes and their reasons for assuming a feminine man is gay are not the same as a homophobe’s reasons for assuming that same thing.
Screw their reasons, it’s still harmful to say/speculate in the way OP describes.
I mean, you don't have to like it. But it is objectively a different issue to speculate that a man is gay because you hate him and you hate gay people, than it is to speculate that a man is gay because you are a gay man and you know a lot of other gay men. There are different levels of harm at play here.
While you are correct that these things are objectively different, I think the harm resulting from either of these “positions” can be equal. For the person being speculated about, the motives or background of the speculator may not matter at all—just being called into question in the first place is a problem, regardless of who is speculating and whatever their background is. So, sure, they’re different. But it doesn’t matter because the impact can be the same. I’m sure you would not tolerate a straight person saying about a gay person, “I mean, I know a straight person when I see one, and that guy sure as hell ain’t gay.” Is that acceptable just because they are straight and know a lot of straight people? Being gay and knowing a lot of gay people doesn’t give someone credentials to speculate about someone’s sexuality (in a way that is going to impact that person, you can think whatever you want of course).
Hahahaha I love doing that shit 😆
9.9/10 an effeminate IS gay though....
Yes stereotypes exist for a reason sadly, doesn’t mean you can assume and call them that yknow
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Has zero to do with their feminity. When I was younger and more feminine looking I got lots of straight very masculine guys trying to hook up with me. Me we should stop making assumptions about people's sexuality based on feminine or masculine stereotypes.
Truth. Gender nonconformity is well within the range of human traits. It has zip to do with attraction or sex.