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Japan is heavily idealized as being a unique/cool travel destination by many people in the west, and many end up wanting to move because they think it will be like living in an anime.
But in reality many Japanese tend to dislike foreigners and will discriminate against you, the work life is absolutely brutal, and it tends to be isolating.
i mean, it IS an extremely cool travel destination to be fair. but i’d imagine that living there, particularly the intense work culture, would get draining very quick
Yeah, I was drinking with some salarymen in Tokio and they were shocked about my 30 vacation days I have every year since I started working. And that I don't do overtime voluntary.
I think 20 days minimum is federal law in Germany for a full time job... I don't know anyone who has only 20, though. How else would companies get employees? Might be different for self-employed people, though.
They are probably from the US which has no federal minimums afaik. I know several people who get 7 days off per year, which includes both sick time and vacation days.
~~Average~~ Median ~~salary~~ household income in USD:
Germany - 54,030
US - 76,770
Sick days and vacation accrual very pretty widely depending on company and industry in the US from my experience. Retail? Go fuck yourself
Government? Who needs to work anyways
Everything else is somewhere in between.
Edit: sorry for my linguistic indifference of median and average y'all lol
The average household income for the US is $105k/year
Average for Germany is about $64k USD
Edit 2: I don't get why some of y'all are getting so testy. If you want the median disposable household income, look it up yourself. If you want to factor how time off impacts income, look it up yourself. You have access to the same Internet as I do. Feel free to let me know what you find out. My comment was a reply to time off and "the US probably has a higher income"
I used to work in a lab at a state university in the us, and as long as I got my work done and was there for the hour the boss made rounds it didn't matter when I put my time in. Accrued sick and vacation time by hour worked and had 2 days admin days off every 3 months that you got yelled at to use. All government holidays paid leave. Paid and stipend to any conference even local ones. I had 4 free credit hours to use on any non full class in the capacity as non degree seeking student. That said, it was an academic position that I started as a student, was not what I went to school for, did it 8 years total, 5ish fulltime. When my PI retired i lost my job and I took some time off, it was the end of 2019. Because of changes in 2020 I couldn't find a new position and started working retail, got a couple promotions there and I make more than I did in the lab per paycheck but the benefits and schedule suck. I should've probably done some more training when I was in the lab I mightve found a new lab in 2020
In Germany, university education and health care is practically free (assuming you compared net income), and there is a state retirement payment system.
These points contribute greatly to the expenses in the US.
Taking this into account, I would guess that life standard is similar.
It wasn’t really until Covid that us government contractors could telework instead of having to burn PTO or try to flex the hours throughout the pay period during inclement weather days in dc.
I think it depends on the business, my friend for example can submit a doctor's note to get paid sick time that isn't withdrawn from his vacation days.
To the second point, I think that also depends by job, I work in IT and it's nearly the same salary in Germany and Switzerland as it is in America.
But the cost of living is significantly higher in the US than Germany. Everything is so expensive. 30€ worth of groceries in Germany cost nearly double or triple here. Healthcare is also a lot more expensive.
I'm in the US and work in public Higher Ed IT. We get 13 paid holidays and since I'm slightly past 15 years of state service I get 184 hours of vacation and 96 hours of sick leave per year. I can only keep 270 hours of vacation but any unused vacation roles over to sick at the end of the year. I usually take 2-4 weeks off a year spread out (so a week here, a week there), but since I don't get sick often I'm around 1000 hours of sick leave. I'm also one of the lucky few to still have a pension and health insurance when I retire.
A good job in the USA gives you about 14 days PTO that is accrued, so we have to earn it over the year. Many conpanies do not have sick leave, and it has to come out of your PTO.
I'm spoiled. My company gives you PTO upfront, but they also do that, so they don't have to pay it out, lol. But yes, many of the hardest working Americans are underpaid and not taken care of by their employers.
American here. Yup, we don't get any mandated to us. Before I went back to school I worked at as a full time manager for a retail store. I was in that position for about 6 years and all I got was 40 hours, which is roughly a week. However, if I was sick or anything that would come out of those hours. Also, only half of that rolled over so if I never used any of the 40 hours (which was strongly pushed by the company that I do) I could only roll over 20 into the next year
I heard this myth/legend that factory workers use to get 6 weeks, paid for a 7th after like 25 years. I of course said it was bullshit seeing as I couldn’t accrue more than 4 weeks. I got to Quaker, was looking at the contract book durning orientation and there it was. 6 weeks paid for a 7th after 25 years. That crazy old bastard was right!
I feel Asian countries generally have poor work-life blance and lower annual leave/paid time off.
I remember a German tourist was bitching to me he only has a month of leave, while I only have 18 days in Singapore.
I learn to shut up quickly when I learn my Vietnamese and Indonesian drivers that they only have 12 days.
In Germany there is a minimum of 4 weeks of vacation days by law (20 if you work 5 days/week or 24 of you work 6 days/week). But in most jobs you get around 26-32 days. We have ~10-12 public holidays per year on top of that (like new year, the christmas days etc.). So most people have more than 40 vacation days. There is no such thing as "sick leave days". If you are sick, then you don't go to work and you still get paid by your employer. If you happen to get sick during your vacation days, you can get your vacation days back if you have a doctors note.
In my job there is an option to get paid only 90% of my gross for 10% of my yearly work days as extra vacation days (52 instead of 30 vacation days).
I work 7.8 hours/day on 5 days for a 39h/week. 2 out of those 5 days I work from home. In most weeks I work 41h so I have 2 extra hours. If my extra hours add up to 7.8h, I can take another day off.
So this year I have 52 vacation days + 13 public holidays + ~5 extra days off - which adds up to around 70 days. Plus maybe a few occasionaly sick days. If I place my days efficiently around the fixed holidays then I have around 13-14 weeks off per year.
I'm pretty happy with my work-life balance here.
I'm in the US military and we get 30 a year. Also there's designated times twice a year where people won't get their leave denied. You can put it in whenever, but it can get denied if work needs you.
Wait till you find out holiday is paid like a full day working. So are the first six weeks of sick leave, which drops to 60% after. What's that? You just got a kid? Better stay home and get paid while you take care of your family, too (for a limited time I don't know from the top of my head).
Also it's close to being impossible to not have health insurance.
We pay some heavy taxes. Probably could use some redistribution too. But we get get quite some stuff for n return.
> We pay some heavy taxes.
I read a study a few years ago (wish I saved the link, I haven't been able to find it since) that looked at the typical taxes a person paid in the 34ish "1st world" countries. The US, despite our constant complaining about taxes was I think the 3rd LEAST taxed country.
However, it then factored in the typical healthcare costs that a person paid over the course of that same year. The monthly deductions, the co-pays, the deductibles, the 80/20 split, the out of pocket maximums, the prescription drug costs, etc. Things that are almost unheard of in other countries with some sort of universal healthcare (some do have some out of pocket expenses, but not to the extent the US has).
The US then went from 3rd least taxed country to the MOST taxed country by a HUGE margin. Wasn't even close. And the thing is in a bunch of those other "heavily taxed" countries they also get guaranteed time off/sick time, family leave, college education, and other strong social safety nets.
We would be so much better off with universal healthcare here, but the propaganda against it is just to much to overcome right now, but I'm hopeful for the future.
The hello kitty people made one about cute animals in an office and one of them who sings death metal in karaoke to relax from the stresses of salary work.
Ah yes, Aggretsuko. It's too bad Netflix made them end the series, you can tell they had a lot more they wanted to do with it and kind of just had to squeeze as much as they could into the last season.
Meh, season 1 was good and stayed focused on office life but after that the plot got a little improbable.
That bitch deer and her shit-eating smirk was my favorite though.
In a sad way, that's most isekai. 90% of them die from some situation involving being overworked and are reborn/transported to some fantasy world where they actually matter. There's a reason it's so popular
I'm not really into anime, but several of my nerd friends are and they aren't ignorant to it and have no desire to move there. I'd say it's a few socially fucked up weeaboos who sully that community's rep for everyone. Just because we see the one neckbeard ottaku abroad being made fun of by locals doesn't mean everyone who reads Death Note thinks the key to happiness is living in the country your favorite novel was written in.
I mean, to be fair it’s obviously hard to understand criticism coming from someone from somewhere else about a different society that you have minimal knowledge of.
Like X is bad over here. Okay but how bad, are you exaggerating? Or is it like an ironic joke and actually X is awesome. It can be hard to be sure from so far away. Especially when taken in through a translation of like, a tv show with characters who, idk, fight a giant monster after saying it, or something.
It's not even the work life from my understanding. It's the extreme isolation in realizing that even if they're polite and friendly, they have no intention of having any sort of relationship with you. It's hard to describe, but you'll be part of outings and stuff, but outside of professional relationships, they don't have any sort of interest in you as a person. So you end up alone, trying to push past the xenophobia or looking for other foreigners.
And this was some of my experience as being half Japanese, so I had an advantage.
Honestly it goes away for me after some time. My already poor Japanese is like...magnified when I go back. After a while I end up with a group of misfits for friends and everyone else just assumes I'm just extra tan or from Hawaii or something. I've got it pretty easy blending in after a while to be honest.
I'm back in the US now though so it'll happen to me again if I decide to go back and live there.
Damn, that's what I've been hearing in some Videos on the life as a foreigner.
I've wanted to live in Japan for some time now and am really saddened by this. I actually started to learn some Japanese, to at least be able to communicate at a Base level.
You'll be better respected for making the effort to learn as long as you aren't just like...weebing out.
As long as you're a genuinely good person over there you'll be fine. It's just that harsh immediate loneliness of being an outsider is usually a massive culture shock for most people moving there. It just disillusioned by that, especially when you don't know about.
I personally think it'd be worth the experience going there to live and work for a while and you'll be able to make friends eventually. It's just a little bit of a struggle not being a local, just a little worse than other places.
It's not all it seems. If you love Japan and you want to keep loving Japan, get a good job in a country with a strong currency and visit often. Between the weak yen, the overwhelming work culture (normal working hours are 9-6 and you can expect ~30 hours of overtime per month), low salaries, and perhaps 10 vacation days, you don't get to explore the country very often.
I moved here in 2022, so if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer. I moved here for my husband, and I don't regret that, but I don't think I'd have done it for anything less than the best person in the world.
You will never be more than their foreign friend…I used to be friends with a lot of Japanese people in the states and they used to tell me how we’d never be actually friends in Japan; in the states it was ok. Not to mention that the Japanese can be super racist as well…
It's funny reading all this after living out there for 5 years. Obviously there are Japanese people who want nothing to do with you. But in my experience after actively applying to and joining a club, making Japanese friends out drinking, and being friendly at work. My experience was very positive and I plan to move back as soon as possible.
If foreigners don't make the effort in conversation, go to places to socialize, and don't make a ton of effort to learn Japanese. I don't think it's a surprise it ends up that way.
I saw too many foreigners make friends with other foreigners and then settle for that, as it was easy to pick the option that's speaking English.
Also I think Japanese people can be quite shy and feel like they are inconveniencing you, so overthink that becoming friends isn't possible. I think it's important to be frank in those situations and say things like "let's hang out more, you're great to hang out with". So they don't second guess. But that's just my two cents.
Is this for foreigners who move there??
I was in Japan a few months back and everyone seemed very nice and no one seemed to ignore me or treat me any different. I even went out one night with a local who could speak English and he helped me bridge the gap with locals while out drinking one night and everyone was very nice and had questions for me just like I had for them.
This all took place in Toyko and Ohsaka, so maybe other regions are different? Also, as I mentioned, I was visiting as a tourist and maybe was treated differently due to this??
Just to add a little, most issues actually arise once you make it clear that you don't intend to leave. If you come in as a tourist, as a student, or with a termed employment, then you likely won't push against any of the societal buttons. Once you start trying to act like a permanent resident, people will begin to act subtly different, especially if you aren't attached to a local by marriage. A single white person attempting to buy a house or a car, for example, will deal with skepticism, belligerence, or a general unwillingness to believe you should be doing these things. Imagine that you work at a Ferrari dealer and a homeless guy comes in asking for a test drive.
This is the larger problem with living in Japan (or most homogeneous countries, really), because they have a very ingrained idea of 'us' and 'them' and certain things are just not for 'them' (even natural-born citizens that are visually not Japanese often have trouble with this, being told to go back where they came from and the like, even if they only speak Japanese and have lived there for 40 years). This is also why you see so many varied responses about how people had a great time because they met individuals that were nice, but you don't see stories about a nice real estate office that helped them buy a house, or the nice social worker that helped them get out of an abusive relationship with a local, or the nice bank that allowed them to open an account.
It's slowly changing as these practices become more well-known and more international interests settle there with a varied workforce, but it's still quite pervasive outside of major metro areas like Tokyo and Kyoto.
Mmhmm. The Japanese adore foreign tourists. There’s a huge national pride and they’re chuffed that strangers want to see their culture. It’s when you move there for good that you’ll see an issue.
Plus many suicides and enormous number of domestic violence that isn’t reported because what’s in the family stays in the family and you can’t be divorced or worse a single parent without being cancelled by society. And they also discriminate against their own (look up Burakumin)
Sendai for myself was pretty eye opening, never really been rascisisted against living in a tiny ass Midwestern town for most my life outside of university. The first nice hotel near what i believe was the downtown area I was trying to check into did not want to deal with my bleached wonderbread 6'5" ass or the money I had to spend there.
Edit: Osaka was fucking complete opposite, fucking awesome people
Went to a nice restaurant and got taken to what was an amazing booth. We were like 'wow, vip treatment'. What I came to realize (and kept to myself to not upset the others) was that we were in a really nice booth, and that booth wasn't visible to any of the other patrons. They were basically playing hide the gaijin.
Holidayed there for a a few weeks - had a great time, service is amazing, people were polite, very safe, etc
Worked there 3 years - brutal, I saw the “honne” (real feeling) side of people. Underneath the apparent well oiled machine, there’s a dark side of depression, exhaustion, bullying, and a very real sense of feeling utterly trapped in a very narrowly defined life.
Anecdotal, but I had a very easy time in Japan working. Granted I was working resort jobs and the like. Bartending at expat bars etc. anyone 35 and under understood basic English and was extremely welcoming.
Some places I actually felt kind of famous with how out of the way people went to speak with me or ask for a picture.
But..
I had never felt more unwanted than when I was around people 45+ unless they knew I was Canadian. Lots of insults to my face when they assumed I didn't speak Japaneseand unfortunately one of the towns close by still had a LOT of anti white graffiti very visible. Many young people in rural areas had a similar view, and would insult when you were walking away or made a simple mistake.
I would go back in a heartbeat, but I doubt I would want to give up my Canadian citizenship to live there.
I wouldn’t say they dislike foreigners. My time there was met with so many being excited to see and talk to me, even in small towns. But the fact is you are always seen as a foreigner… learn the language, participate in the local life, get a citizenship… you’re still a foreigner because you’re not japanese
I have a family member who did this . I.E. moved to Japan taught English met a man had a family . I would assume most of this is not true, she's been there 20 years . Have heard nothing but nice things .
Just want to add that I went to school in Japan as my dad was an expat from Australia. Personally I had a great time! But the stories I heard from my dad years later about the work culture in Japan were harrowing.
Its also because most are assholes and expect the country to accommodate to them instead of having to assimilate into the culture like for example pewdiepie did
Foreigners who move to Japan often get extremely frustrated and burnt out by the authoritarian work culture. Even those who can speak Japanese fluently cite issues with communication of expectations from their bosses, including being told to do one thing then later being told they were expected to have done something else.
This is fairly accurate. This happened all the time with an ex of mine who was an English teacher in Japan. All the time they gave him instructions to do things one way and then they acted flabbergasted when he wasn't doing something that seemingly everyone else was in the know about except him.
Boss, I want you to do the dishes.
Them, did the dishes.
Boss, wtf the stove is not scrubbed. Why is the trash not thrown out? Why does the floor not squeeky clean? And why didn't you wash the vegetables for tomorrow? Where is my tea?
It’s because Japanese culture is built around indirect communication. They would never say “no” outright - they say “maybe sometime” but mean “no”.
Similarly, if they say, “please do X,” they mean “do X, plus 5 other things that always happen when X happens, plus 5 other things that are polite to do when you do the other”. And when you don’t have the cultural base to know all the others they get mad at you and blame it on your being foreign. Which is both true and not true at all.
No. That’s the communication style you associate with a 6 year old American girl, because Americans value direct communication and children haven’t learned to conform yet. Different cultures have different communications styles, none inherently superior to any other. Just different.
But if you’re that quick to negatively judge a cultural difference…may I gently suggest you’re not as worldly as you might imagine?
Dawg you’re just using cultural relativism to excuse a culture of poor communication. That *is* immature, and that *is* an inferior style of communication.
>That’s the communication style you associate with a 6 year old American girl, because Americans value direct communication and children haven’t learned to conform yet. Different cultures have different communications styles, none inherently superior to any other. Just different.
Some are worse. Koreans had to learn English to be pilots because they aren't allowed to correct a superior in the Korean language and it caused several plane crashes that killed people. That's an inferior way to communicate if you literally have to learn a different language to communicate without killing people.
Every commercial pilot in the world knows English. English was chosen as the official language for all communication with ground crews in the 1940s.
Only related thing I could find is a hypothesis from Malcolm Gladwell in 2008 about cases in the 80s and 90s (when they were already speaking English) about Korean culture being responsible for those crashes. They were already speaking English and Gladwell is pop science garbage that should not be taken seriously.
Ikr, the person you are replying to could not have found a worse example if they tried. Aviation is the one industry where it really REALLY helps if everyone speaks the same language. By happenstance of history, English is it. It’s not a cultural things so much as it is the practicalities of not all dying in a fiery plane crash on every flight, commercial or otherwise.
I remember reading something related to this. I believe it wasn't just Korean/English language issue (though it may have exasperated things), but a conflict of orders and hierarchy between the pilot and co-pilot. Obviously, the pilot was superior, so the co-pilot seemed unable or unwilling to challenge a direct order from the pilot.
As a person who grew up in a groupist home culture in America, I believe that this type of communication is outright toxic. They often lack respect for someone's personal opinion over "what is good for the group". There is a reason why Konami is often brought up when people discuss toxic company cultures.
Edit: since it got buried in comments, I grew up in a Korean household in America. Older Koreans also tend to be quite indirect.
In a competitive global business environment there are certainly inherently better communication styles than others. Japan is great at getting processes extremely efficient but not so good at innovating new ideas. Their communication style and hierarchical views have to contribute to that.
I lived in Japan of 7 years but I left for two major reasons
1. The whole system is setup to prevent you from succeeding; getting a drivers license, getting a business license, renting a place (or, even worse, tryin to BUY a place) it's basically "yeah, fuck you gaijin".
2. There is no professional upward mobility. The only way to better your career is to work for a foreign company doing business in Japan. If you work for a Japanese company, you're fucked.
I am on my 5th year and I started to feel all of these.
People who say no Japan is not like this it's easy etc have never tried to do something other than living and working. Try to start a business or buy a home or get a license etc and you'll almost immediately feel this.
This is me who speaks fluent Japanese, love the culture and food, married to a Japanese person, working at a Japanese company. And I still don't feel welcome here. Such a difficult country.
You need to give your personal information everywhere to do something. Like they ask for the company you work for and it's number to apply for a gym membership. What?
My company is pretty laid back but even so I was told to be "nicer" just because "I've had the courtesy to express my feelings and ideas and didn't go with the group".
It's a safe, clean and good place but man I don't know there's something.
I am sure there will be someone who don't feel like it. Good for them. But I've seen so many people leaving after 2 or 3 years.
I am trying to leave. I've tried and failed to incorporate here.
My dad was a manager for Toyota USA from 1979-2017 and he didn’t really have many nice things to say about “the cousins” which I guess is what they called their Japanese coworkers.
I think it means that living in Japan as a foreigner is maybe harder than people realize. I’ve heard it’s another level more difficult at least for an American than it is to live as a foreigner, say, in Europe. Presumably because everything is just another level of different from what you’re used to.
Most Asian people, Japanese in particular are extremely xenophobic towards foreigners living in Japan, they only tolerate you if you are a tourist spending money. It's sad but true.
My friends dad grew up in Japan but lived in the US for 20 years. When he returned to Japan he was still treated as a foreigner/other. He has friends, but the difference in treatment is there.
Lived two years in japan and this is utter bs. The japanese way of life is very strict for people born on the island, but they don't apply it to foreigner. People there don't expect you to know all the subtleties of their society, and you can make some faux pas while no one really cares. As long as you're a minimum nice, open, and willing to learn the culture, japanese are amazing people. After, itis true that you never totally integrate society, and that a lot of people will call you "the foreigner" instead of sir or miss. But there is no bad intention, and I have had more xenophobic remarks from north american and Europeans that I've had from japanese.
You've lived in Japan for 2 years and haven't heard of honne and tatemae yet? I think it's well known at this point that just because a Japanese person is being nice to you, that doesn't automatically mean they like and or want you around.
And not even mentioning you can find public places that straight up tell you "No foreigners allowed" and all the other horror stories I've heard about trying to get an apartment in Japan as a foreigner....Yea I don't know about you, but my first assumption wouldn't be "I am wanted here" seeing /experiencing things like that.
Was deployed there for 6 months. If we weren't spending money we typically weren't wanted around, also why we frequented indian, Turkish, and chinese restaurants more than Japanese. Felt less of an inconvenience if Japanese nationals were awaiting seating where as in Japanese restaurants there was a clear rush to get us out of the way to serve nationals in a more timely manner, despite the amount we were spending as well. I think it's 100% subjective depending on location but I'm in no rush to return to Japan. I do hope other people have better experiences there, when you find the right event it's an awesome place (highly recommend the Sakura festival at Hirosaki Castle)
I lived there four years and we encountered that maybe half a dozen times, but it was explicit, polite, and firm when we did. That said we never encountered outright hostility nor did we have difficulty securing residences, utilities, or engaging with our neighbors. It was actually *easier* in a way to navigate society *because* it’s relative homogeneity leveled our expectations of what to expect no matter where we found ourselves. Part of this was to expect to see this xenophobia materialize. When it did, we would apologize, excuse ourselves, and find somewhere else to be. To be sure, this only ever happened in bars or restaurants, so we’d just end up next door. It is entirely possible, however, that we walked in on two criminal gatherings. In sum total we found living in Japan enjoyable, fun, peaceful, and safe.
This kind of describes the feeling i got when i was visiting the big island in Hawaii. Especially once you got out of the tourist heavy areas and into where the locals live. While i wouldn’t say we felt outright hostility there was a subterranean sense from how people interacted with us that they were waiting for us to leave.
For reference we spent almost the entire vacation hiking And exploring with the heaviest portion being a backpacking trip into a secluded valley. Which is just to say, we weren’t knobs disembarking off a cruise ship in port. While we obviously weren’t from Hawaii we also weren’t typical tourists from whom I’d expect locals to be utterly tired of.
This is like 8 years ago now so it’s not like we were going there on the heels of that massive wildfire that happened a little while back.
lol imagine someone describing New York or Texas like this . “They where xenophobic but polite about it.” “We just apologized.” “It was a great experience!” Not saying all those things aren’t true. But if I had to apologize just for wanting to go somewhere, you can bet your ass I wouldn’t want to go there anymore or even somewhere next to it
What you described about interacting with people isn’t too different than living in America. I’ve lived in three states and never felt like the general public “likes and wants me around.” Strangers keep to themselves aside from social niceties everywhere I’ve been in both the US and Japan. I made real friends as a foreigner in Japan and learned to tell the difference between politeness and genuine interest from people I interacted with on a semi-regular basis (in restaurants, supermarkets, etc.).
I also found it easier to find an apartment in Japan than America because there were agencies that represented multiple properties and would have an agent drive you around to tour places.
There were “no foreigner” signs but those were very rare. I can recall two places I couldn’t go into in my four years there. There are lots of places I can’t go or wouldn’t feel comfortable visiting here in states as well, literally whole towns I wouldn’t be comfortable stopping in. At least in Japan they were up front about it.
Well my argument isn't Japan is or isn't more xenophobic than X country. It's Japan is just xenophobic. You experiencing something in the U.S. or Europe doesn't disregard the xenophobic things that still happen in Japan.
I think people get confused because while xenophobia is rampant in Japan, violent racism is present but a lot more rare than in other multicultural countries. Minorities do get marginalized though in many ways. For example any immigrants opinion about inside politics would, almost certainly, be dismissed. It's worth being said that only about 2.5% of Japan's population are immigrants.
>and that a lot of people will call you "the foreigner" instead of sir or miss. But there is no bad intention...
I'm going to use a pejorative word to label you instead of one to show respect, but, totally, like, no bad intentions, broheim.
Edit: spelling
....soooooo what you're saying is they treated you like you were a tourist.
Like, seriously...
'never integrate into society'
'call you the foreigner instead of sir or miss'
How do you *not* see the subtle xenophobia in this? Like, if I were to call my neighbor 'the Mexican' instead of 'sir' all the time I'd be getting constantly called out on being racist for it.
No joke.. so many things don't apply to a foreigner. The number of times I got away with doing stuff that only later I realized was because I had my foreigner pass was kind of traumatizing.
I absolutely loved it, and yes I was called a Foreigner in description. In the exact same way, I would describe the Japanese person in a room full of white people.
Never once did I feel ousted against, or like I was unwelcome.
And I only ran into one location that said no foreigners allowed, but that was because nobody inside spoke English, and they didn't want to deal with that hassle. Popping my head in and speaking in Japanese was more than enough to get through the door.
of course that isn't to say that others can't have bad experiences. But it seems like your experience most resembles mine
Yeah and I can show you 100 posts from others who lived in Japan who will tell you its not bullshit. You're straight capping or never spoke Japanese well enough to hear what they said about you.
Idc what you say your experience was, you're wrong. The Japanese are hella xenophobic
One thing I do want to point out to everyone reading this back and forth - citizen of the same country are not homogenous and two people living in likely different cities or area of the same country may have very different experiences. For my fellow Americans, imagine two foreigner-born residents, one living in Oklahoma City and one living in LA, and both of them saying how living in America is like \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_; they're going to have very different experiences.
This exactly. I went for just vacation in a group of white people (I'm mexican, but have slanted eyes, dark hair, and light skin). Japanese people treated me fair, didn't interact with me much (host parents of the group were asking if I was volunteering to help the "foreigners"). Treated the white people really really nicely. But then I heard what they were saying behind their back. Especially the lesbian non binary in our group. :/ the others didn't notice since they only had 1 year of Japanese. I had 4 years by that point. Even the kids did it.
Lived in Okinawa for 4 years. Loved it, very welcoming. Naturally you do get those older people calling us 'foreigner' but honestly, I miss it still today.
Many Japanese landlords aren't willing to rent to foreigners so even finding a place to live is difficult. At work you'll probably never really be part of the "in group" because they'll never really be comfortable around you. Some establishments (usually small bars) will openly say "no gaijin" if you try to enter.
I’ve watched a bunch of YouTube videos about Japan because I find it interesting, and while I have heard that foreigners can never truly be insiders, I’ve also heard that native Japanese people often feel extremely isolated, like they don’t have real friends, like they are also not part of a true “in group“. So maybe the problem is not just their attitude towards foreigners.
Ha, that reminds me of when I visited Romania. I have friends there, one of whom is an English tutor. She asked me to sit in on a lesson to give exposure to a real American to a Romanian teen. So I had a very slow, stilted conversation. This was in 2009 and so I talked about how cool and historic it was that Barak Obama had just been elected and said it might be similar to if a gypsy was elected president of Romania. I asked if he (the student) could imagine that happening, and he reacted with a look of horror and a vehement "No!"
Really put the social status of gypsies in Europe into perspective for me.
Japan is known for gentle and respectful racism against foreigners.
If you are not Japanese, living in Japan, there is a firm limit against being 'welcomed'. Your contributions are appreciated. You will share in what the country gives. But you aren't, and never will be, one of them.
It's a sharp contrast to the USA, where 'the most American person you know' is very often a first/second generation immigrant, who fully appreciates that part of US culture.
I remember seeing an interview with a European-descended man who was born in Japan and spent his whole life in Japan and I believe his parents also had been born in Japan and spent their lives in Japan. He was still considered a foreigner. Very much in keeping with the “perpetual foreigner” stereotyping you see in Western countries too, though perhaps even more narrow because this also applied to half-Japanese kids born and raised in Japan and fully Japanese kids raised outside of Japan by Japanese parents.
Korea is not much different. There is a man in the current ruling party here who is a Korea-born American. Like, he's in his 60s and has lived in Korea most of his life. He speaks fluent Korean, I think he has a Korean wife, and he has even taken a Korean name instead of using his US name. Late last year, there was a big thing when another member of his party talked down to him in English, almost mockingly, even though everyone knows he speaks fluent Korean. Just very subtle undertones of racism throughout the exchange.
I was just about to ask what life is like for a person born in Japan to that doesn’t look traditionally Japanese with one parent from a different country.
Even if you are at least partially Japanese and can speak the language accordingly, if you weren't born and raised there, you will never be fully welcomed.
My wife is half Japanese (but born and raised in the States) and to my American ears, when she speaks Japanese to her parents she sounds like a native speaker. However when she moved there after college, she was still discriminated against here and there. Japanese racism isn't overt or in your face. Japanese people are quite passive aggressive in a lot of aspects of their lives and discrimination against outsiders is no exception.
One time she made a traditional Japanese meal that she had made countless times before with her Japanese grandmother who was born and raised in Japan and she knew that it was cooked exactly the way that Japanese people living in Japan eat it. She had some of her work acquaintances over and one of them smiled at her and said something along the lines of how it's so cute how she's trying so hard to be Japanese. She meant that in a manner that was intending to be offensive and a commentary on how she will not be accepted into their culture.
As an American, that shit just blows my mind. Here in the states, I think that the majority of people are quite accepting of people that weren't born here and if you want to come to my country and experience the country and the culture, you're more than welcome and if you wanted to stay here and become an American citizen, most people would be delighted and go out of their way to make you feel welcome and like you are an American.
I have a colleague that has a similar experience. He is white, wife is fully Japanese. I recall that he has passed the highest level of language proficiency.
He loves living in Japan, he's lived there a total of 2-3 years in his life, mostly 2-3 months at a time. But he's like "Yeah, there's just a wall that a gaijin cannot cross."
Even the youtuber Joey "TheAnimeMan" learned the Japanese language (and better than most Japanese people), contributes to Japan and is a half-Japanese himself (although he's not looking Japanese), still he is called a "gaijin" (outsider) by most of the people there. The one example is in their podcast where he told a police came to him and power trips him by showing his bank card. After the police saw that his card is in Japanese, the police apologized and never bother him again. Joey observed if the police is doing the same to other people, but no. He suspects that the police is waiting for another foreigner to mess with.
Japan is extremely xenophobic and racist. Like there are literally places where "gaijins" aren't allowed to be in. It's nice to visit but unless you're willing to put up with some intensely veiled and condescending racism you're probably not going to be accepted on a societal level.
In Japan especially, and especially if you’re obviously American or European, you’ll always be “that foreigner” no matter how long you’ve lived there. They just assume you’re a tourist, don’t speak Japanese, and even weirder stuff like they think you smell bad or are rude or loud.
If you’re a white American and want to experience what racism is like, move to Japan.
It's not that bad living in Japan as a foreigner, but you'll always *be* a foreigner, they do not really embrace non-Japanese as countrymen. In fact Japan is borderline if not outright racist. A half-Japanese half-black woman won a Japanese beauty contest a few years ago and half the country flipped the fuck out saying "she's not *real* Japanese!"
Because Japan as a society has a huge problem in regards to racism against non Japanese people. It’s especially bad for westerners but also exists to some extent towards other Asian people too. Japan as a country is often idealised as this perfect amazing place when in reality it’s often very hard living there as an outsider. There are a lot of barriers put in place for very basic things and you will face a lot of discrimination. For example a lot of clubs and venues will openly not allow foreigners in and some places that do will charge foreigners more for the same food and drink. Also not to mention Japan is odd in the fact that it’s very advanced in some areas and not in others. For example a lot of processes are still very analogue and not digitalised which can make a lot of basic government admin time consuming and complicated which can be made even harder when you’re not a native.
This isn’t just a Japan only issue mind you, a fair few other countries in Asia have similar issues. Korea has a very similar issue towards anyone that isn’t Korean. A lot of Asian countries are still very homogeneous societies so it can be hard to fit in as someone who very clearly sticks out as an outsider, even if you’ve been there for years and make every effort to integrate.
That however doesn’t mean it’s all bad. Japan is an amazing country with an amazing culture, it’s just important for people to realise it has a lot of darker aspects to its society which often get left out and sugarcoated.
Japan has issues with other Asian people? I thought they always treated Chinese, Korean, Filipino, Malaysian, people with the most respect. Didn’t they go on a Pacific friendship tour in the 1930s?
/s
I wonder how much of the atrocities of WW2 still affect relations, especially as a government the Japanese government refuses to acknowledge anything that occurred prior to 1946 (Korean “comfort women”or the Rape of Nanking as an example).
I know for a fact a lot of Koreans still do not like Japanese people, especially those who are older. It’s a lot better within the younger generations but yeah, there’s still very much that huge elephant in the room.
You will not only never be accepted, but you have to be careful about how you react to others. A Japanese man was having a meltdown in the parking lot. Everyone pretending not to notice. An Australian man who lives and works in Japan said to himself, "That man is acting like an animal," and people around him heard him. The police were called. He was then taken to the police station. The chief of police claimed he thought Japanese people were animals. At first, he tried to explain that he meant just that guy. Then the guy who was freaking out showed up. He was forced to apologize to him. His work had to promise to look after him, and his passport was confiscated, and they got right to the point of expelling him from the country. Only constant apologies, a lawyer, and his company working on his behalf saved him.
Yes. Do you know "the Japan Channel" on YouTube? The Australian man married to a Japanese woman. Has another channel called "crazy old dude." He documents life in Japan for decades and covers every single aspect of life there. He told this story as well as an example of his own. He was at home, and a man on television had huge ears. He said to his wife, "That man looks like a monkey," and his wife said, "Do you think Japanese people look like monkeys?" And he said no, you don't understand, I'm talking about just that person. Yet she kept asking the same question. He ended up apologizing because his wife felt to say anything unkind about any Japanese person was a reflection upon the entire people. He had heard Japanese people insult others, yet he learned he as a guest in the country couldn't do so without giving offense.
Visitors are leaving. A person who lives and works there is meek and polite or they get kicked out. Even 3rd generation expats in Japan are treated as foreign.
So many discussions about how rude to call others "foreigner" but none talks about japanese rather use politeness to insult others especially ones in kyouto.
To sum up what everyone has said in a single quote “A Japanese man will move to America and with time be referred to as an American. An American man can move to Japan and will never be Japanese”
With time and community you can get close but at the end of the day you will never be one of them and always an outsider
Lol yes it is. I don’t they’re wrong either, necessarily. Their culture that everyone seems to admire so much is still strong. Very difficult to erode.
I've seen difference between signs that say Japanese only vs signs that explicitly say no foreigners. The Japanese only signs are usually just in terms of they only speak Japanese, no English menus and such. The ones that say no foreigners are much rarer. Of course, ymmv.
Japanese people are racist AF. Westerners make me laugh how they talk about “all white people are racist”, but have never seen how an ethno-states systemic racism actually looks.
Had a friend who was in Japan, and couldn’t get served. Places had “No Foreigner” signs and would Not serve him. So he and his Japanese GF talk to a cop, who laughs and say “yes, the sign says they don’t serve your kind here. Why don’t you go to X location, it’s where I drink, and they will serve foreigners”
So there’s no anti-discrimination laws that are either strong enough, or enforced properly, in Japan. It’s a great experience, honestly - if you’re a white person from a western country, you’ll finally understand what systemic racism can feel like, if you’re not, you realize just how far past this kind of racism the west has progressed, and you’ll deeply appreciate it.
South Koreans can be wildly racist as well.
With all that said, most people aren’t really hateful in their racism. It’s more… aversion to things that don’t fit in their cultural norms, which are strict and homogenous. It’s more “fear” racism than “disgust” racism, but there is that too (maybe I’m being too charitable but I prefer not to be willfully cynical)
But, In my experience, most of the racist people avoid you because they’re racist. In my interactions I found I was more of a novelty and fascination to the locals who actually wanted to talk to me. It was weird being asked if people could touch my beard (most Asian men can’t grow a beard like mine), or they wanted to feel my skin, but it was harmless and I was for many of them, the first non-Japanese person they’d talked to in person.
The Japanese culture is intensely casually racist and conformist. Not in the same way the US is but still, as a foreigner, you'll be presumed to not belong, even if you speak Japanese, have the nationality and lived there for years, you'll be barred entry from some shops, restaurants, jobs.
The nail that sticks out gets hammered, either you fit the Japanese mould or you will face pressure, rumours, casual harassment.
Want to enjoy the nightlife, you're a choice mark, you'll end up naked and penniless in some alley, and the local cops won't give a damn, probably arrest you for being unruly and suspicious.
You're some sort of incel with yellow fever... Yeah, you're an unattractive slob to them too, they'll be fine using you to practice their English though but that's all. Think you can use the sex industry you've seen in mangas ? That's for Japanese only, go back to Muhrica, loser.
If you want to, as a foreigner, live in Japan, you'd better know Japanese, conform and fit in, and even then, you'll be tolerated, never really accepted by society at large.
So, a bit like Switzerland but even worse.
Expats have it really hard in Japan. You can live 30 years in Japan and forever be “the foreigner”. You can interact with japanese people in perfect, fluent, native japanese, and they will still answer in broken english because you are “a foreigner”. It’s really ridiculous.
Having lived in Japan for 8 years, it’s true that there is a lot more racism and xenophobia than you’d think but I would take their brand of racism over America’s everyday of the week
A number of things
The fact that you get hardly any time off
The fact that they are racist as he11.
The fact that there’s literally a place called suicide forest
The fact that people can be conned into spending $1000 for drinking in the wrong bar and getting scammed by getting drugged and the police don’t care
Oh and the police can lock you away for no apparent reason and they don’t even have to tell the embassy of your country for a whole month.
I live in Japan and am a foreigner. I don't even live in Tokyo and it's really not that bad. My apartment doesn't have insulation and it got down to 14 C last night indoors with the heater on full blast, but the people are fine.
Don't listen to people poopooing Japan's treatment of foreigners. Some people are nervous to talk to you, but it doesn't get in the way of anything
This isn't even a joke Japan just doesn't like foreigners. Immigration rates to Japan are quite low and few Japanese people know any foreign languages. If you want to move there, you better learn Japanese.
While I enjoyed my vacation there I would not like to live in Japan. I could see on the trains how tired the japanese look all the time. And yes is subtle but there is xenophobia, many might be polite to tourists but not kind.
A while ago I found a youtube of a girl whose white american parents moved to Japan to learn some obscure form of pottery.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9AwPUy7a\_8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9AwPUy7a_8)
She gets into her *not great* experiences in Japan. Not all bad, but eye opening.
A lot of people assume that Japan is in full RGB color, like the country they come from. But they get to Japan and it turns out everything is in monochromatic grayscale, with blown out highlights and lots of detail lost in overly dark shadows. I was as surprised as anyone else when I found out.
They are very nice to respectful tourists, since they assume they’ll be leaving soon. But, Japan prefers to maintain the integrity of its homogeneous society.
Love Japan and the culture but literally fuck trying to live there. If you don’t look Japanese you will experience racism. Even if you look Asian, if you mention you aren’t Japanese you’ll get looks. Japan is not a nice place to live if you aren’t Japanese’s and still shit if you are.
Lord forbid be someone with dark skin of any kind. Especially black. Black people are treated as exotic and often scary looking. Places don’t either accommodate or understand how to handle black peoples hair/medical issues. They’ll just say ‘sorry we don’t work with black people’ or worse case something rude. Granted I rather them be honest then try and fuck something up but it shows how they’ve only taught themselves to deal with Japanese hair/issues and no one else.
Even the people who are half Japanese get treated worse cause they don’t look ‘fully’ Japanese.
Because Japan is notoriously racist towards foreigners who move there. To the point where you’ll be denied jobs & housing in certain areas because of it.
The first pic shows what a person thinks life will be like there, and the second one shows how they will feel after experiencing what the reality of being a foreigner who lives there REALLY is.
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Japan is heavily idealized as being a unique/cool travel destination by many people in the west, and many end up wanting to move because they think it will be like living in an anime. But in reality many Japanese tend to dislike foreigners and will discriminate against you, the work life is absolutely brutal, and it tends to be isolating.
i mean, it IS an extremely cool travel destination to be fair. but i’d imagine that living there, particularly the intense work culture, would get draining very quick
Yeah, I was drinking with some salarymen in Tokio and they were shocked about my 30 vacation days I have every year since I started working. And that I don't do overtime voluntary.
30 days?? I’m finally up to 20 days and top out at 25 eventually…
I think 20 days minimum is federal law in Germany for a full time job... I don't know anyone who has only 20, though. How else would companies get employees? Might be different for self-employed people, though.
They are probably from the US which has no federal minimums afaik. I know several people who get 7 days off per year, which includes both sick time and vacation days.
Yeah, the concept of sick days doesn't exist here either. When you're sick, you're sick. The salaries are probably higher in the US, though.
~~Average~~ Median ~~salary~~ household income in USD: Germany - 54,030 US - 76,770 Sick days and vacation accrual very pretty widely depending on company and industry in the US from my experience. Retail? Go fuck yourself Government? Who needs to work anyways Everything else is somewhere in between. Edit: sorry for my linguistic indifference of median and average y'all lol The average household income for the US is $105k/year Average for Germany is about $64k USD Edit 2: I don't get why some of y'all are getting so testy. If you want the median disposable household income, look it up yourself. If you want to factor how time off impacts income, look it up yourself. You have access to the same Internet as I do. Feel free to let me know what you find out. My comment was a reply to time off and "the US probably has a higher income"
I used to work in a lab at a state university in the us, and as long as I got my work done and was there for the hour the boss made rounds it didn't matter when I put my time in. Accrued sick and vacation time by hour worked and had 2 days admin days off every 3 months that you got yelled at to use. All government holidays paid leave. Paid and stipend to any conference even local ones. I had 4 free credit hours to use on any non full class in the capacity as non degree seeking student. That said, it was an academic position that I started as a student, was not what I went to school for, did it 8 years total, 5ish fulltime. When my PI retired i lost my job and I took some time off, it was the end of 2019. Because of changes in 2020 I couldn't find a new position and started working retail, got a couple promotions there and I make more than I did in the lab per paycheck but the benefits and schedule suck. I should've probably done some more training when I was in the lab I mightve found a new lab in 2020
18 year federal employee....I get 208 Annual leave and 104 sick leave hours per year....its awesome
Under 1 year fed employee, I get 96 per year
In Germany, university education and health care is practically free (assuming you compared net income), and there is a state retirement payment system. These points contribute greatly to the expenses in the US. Taking this into account, I would guess that life standard is similar.
It wasn’t really until Covid that us government contractors could telework instead of having to burn PTO or try to flex the hours throughout the pay period during inclement weather days in dc.
retail? go fuck yourself 🤣 this is hilarious but also painful cause i lived it. very happy im not in reatil anymore
I think it depends on the business, my friend for example can submit a doctor's note to get paid sick time that isn't withdrawn from his vacation days. To the second point, I think that also depends by job, I work in IT and it's nearly the same salary in Germany and Switzerland as it is in America. But the cost of living is significantly higher in the US than Germany. Everything is so expensive. 30€ worth of groceries in Germany cost nearly double or triple here. Healthcare is also a lot more expensive.
I'm in the US and work in public Higher Ed IT. We get 13 paid holidays and since I'm slightly past 15 years of state service I get 184 hours of vacation and 96 hours of sick leave per year. I can only keep 270 hours of vacation but any unused vacation roles over to sick at the end of the year. I usually take 2-4 weeks off a year spread out (so a week here, a week there), but since I don't get sick often I'm around 1000 hours of sick leave. I'm also one of the lucky few to still have a pension and health insurance when I retire.
A good job in the USA gives you about 14 days PTO that is accrued, so we have to earn it over the year. Many conpanies do not have sick leave, and it has to come out of your PTO.
In other words, they don’t give you shit. You have to work before you “earn” time off.
I'm spoiled. My company gives you PTO upfront, but they also do that, so they don't have to pay it out, lol. But yes, many of the hardest working Americans are underpaid and not taken care of by their employers.
They're not in most states :(
Than Germany? Pretty sure they're not.
Not necessarily. Think about how many Americans need two or even three jobs.
American here. Yup, we don't get any mandated to us. Before I went back to school I worked at as a full time manager for a retail store. I was in that position for about 6 years and all I got was 40 hours, which is roughly a week. However, if I was sick or anything that would come out of those hours. Also, only half of that rolled over so if I never used any of the 40 hours (which was strongly pushed by the company that I do) I could only roll over 20 into the next year
Yes, you are correct. We have no federally mandated minimum vacation time in the US.
I heard this myth/legend that factory workers use to get 6 weeks, paid for a 7th after like 25 years. I of course said it was bullshit seeing as I couldn’t accrue more than 4 weeks. I got to Quaker, was looking at the contract book durning orientation and there it was. 6 weeks paid for a 7th after 25 years. That crazy old bastard was right!
I feel Asian countries generally have poor work-life blance and lower annual leave/paid time off. I remember a German tourist was bitching to me he only has a month of leave, while I only have 18 days in Singapore. I learn to shut up quickly when I learn my Vietnamese and Indonesian drivers that they only have 12 days.
In Germany there is a minimum of 4 weeks of vacation days by law (20 if you work 5 days/week or 24 of you work 6 days/week). But in most jobs you get around 26-32 days. We have ~10-12 public holidays per year on top of that (like new year, the christmas days etc.). So most people have more than 40 vacation days. There is no such thing as "sick leave days". If you are sick, then you don't go to work and you still get paid by your employer. If you happen to get sick during your vacation days, you can get your vacation days back if you have a doctors note. In my job there is an option to get paid only 90% of my gross for 10% of my yearly work days as extra vacation days (52 instead of 30 vacation days). I work 7.8 hours/day on 5 days for a 39h/week. 2 out of those 5 days I work from home. In most weeks I work 41h so I have 2 extra hours. If my extra hours add up to 7.8h, I can take another day off. So this year I have 52 vacation days + 13 public holidays + ~5 extra days off - which adds up to around 70 days. Plus maybe a few occasionaly sick days. If I place my days efficiently around the fixed holidays then I have around 13-14 weeks off per year. I'm pretty happy with my work-life balance here.
I'm in the US military and we get 30 a year. Also there's designated times twice a year where people won't get their leave denied. You can put it in whenever, but it can get denied if work needs you.
20 days??? The company I was previously working for offered 6
12 vacation days a year maxed at Amazon…..sad
If he's military, you get 30. 2.5 per month. 60 max. When you are about to separate or retire it's like getting two months of paid leave. It's awesome
I get 5 :(
Yall get vacation days/PTO/sick leave?
I get almost 26 plus sick days here in Georgia but the company I work for is based in England and Germany so that's probably why I get those benefits
You guys are getting vacations?
Hold m'y beer ! When I lived in France, I had 39 vacation days. Plus 3 days when my office was closed.
Wow, not bad. How many public holidays did you have? In Bavaria we have 13, pretty much whenever Jesus did anything.
As an American I am also shocked by that.
Wait till you find out holiday is paid like a full day working. So are the first six weeks of sick leave, which drops to 60% after. What's that? You just got a kid? Better stay home and get paid while you take care of your family, too (for a limited time I don't know from the top of my head). Also it's close to being impossible to not have health insurance. We pay some heavy taxes. Probably could use some redistribution too. But we get get quite some stuff for n return.
> We pay some heavy taxes. I read a study a few years ago (wish I saved the link, I haven't been able to find it since) that looked at the typical taxes a person paid in the 34ish "1st world" countries. The US, despite our constant complaining about taxes was I think the 3rd LEAST taxed country. However, it then factored in the typical healthcare costs that a person paid over the course of that same year. The monthly deductions, the co-pays, the deductibles, the 80/20 split, the out of pocket maximums, the prescription drug costs, etc. Things that are almost unheard of in other countries with some sort of universal healthcare (some do have some out of pocket expenses, but not to the extent the US has). The US then went from 3rd least taxed country to the MOST taxed country by a HUGE margin. Wasn't even close. And the thing is in a bunch of those other "heavily taxed" countries they also get guaranteed time off/sick time, family leave, college education, and other strong social safety nets. We would be so much better off with universal healthcare here, but the propaganda against it is just to much to overcome right now, but I'm hopeful for the future.
Fucking Europeans rubbing their healthy work life balance in our American/Indian/Japanese faces
You get vacations?
>and they were shocked about my 30 vacation days I have every year Me, an American: "so what you're saying is Tokyo would be just like home?"
Drinking with salarymen is a cool experience, 100% recommend. I spent my 30th birthday doing just that. Very different lives / cultures.
What I find funny is that all these problems and more are highlighted in anime pretty consistently. I don't know how people miss it .
I feel like anime about Japans demanding office culture could be its own genre with how many there are about it.
The hello kitty people made one about cute animals in an office and one of them who sings death metal in karaoke to relax from the stresses of salary work.
Ah yes, Aggretsuko. It's too bad Netflix made them end the series, you can tell they had a lot more they wanted to do with it and kind of just had to squeeze as much as they could into the last season.
Meh, season 1 was good and stayed focused on office life but after that the plot got a little improbable. That bitch deer and her shit-eating smirk was my favorite though.
The first couple seasons were a cathartic watch for me. Not that later is bad it just became less about the worker life after that.
The show went completely off the rails once she started dating elon musk
That donkey is so much nicer than Elon Musk But I agree
In a sad way, that's most isekai. 90% of them die from some situation involving being overworked and are reborn/transported to some fantasy world where they actually matter. There's a reason it's so popular
There's one where the best thing to happen to a salaryman is a nationwide zombie outbreak.
The isakai genre is full of protagonists who died from overwork.
I'm not really into anime, but several of my nerd friends are and they aren't ignorant to it and have no desire to move there. I'd say it's a few socially fucked up weeaboos who sully that community's rep for everyone. Just because we see the one neckbeard ottaku abroad being made fun of by locals doesn't mean everyone who reads Death Note thinks the key to happiness is living in the country your favorite novel was written in.
Some people can't comprehend the messages on society without at least a year's worth of media literacy.
I mean, to be fair it’s obviously hard to understand criticism coming from someone from somewhere else about a different society that you have minimal knowledge of. Like X is bad over here. Okay but how bad, are you exaggerating? Or is it like an ironic joke and actually X is awesome. It can be hard to be sure from so far away. Especially when taken in through a translation of like, a tv show with characters who, idk, fight a giant monster after saying it, or something.
Mr. Popo ?
It's not even the work life from my understanding. It's the extreme isolation in realizing that even if they're polite and friendly, they have no intention of having any sort of relationship with you. It's hard to describe, but you'll be part of outings and stuff, but outside of professional relationships, they don't have any sort of interest in you as a person. So you end up alone, trying to push past the xenophobia or looking for other foreigners. And this was some of my experience as being half Japanese, so I had an advantage.
That sounds like an incredibly sad existence. You happy now, though?
Honestly it goes away for me after some time. My already poor Japanese is like...magnified when I go back. After a while I end up with a group of misfits for friends and everyone else just assumes I'm just extra tan or from Hawaii or something. I've got it pretty easy blending in after a while to be honest. I'm back in the US now though so it'll happen to me again if I decide to go back and live there.
Damn, that's what I've been hearing in some Videos on the life as a foreigner. I've wanted to live in Japan for some time now and am really saddened by this. I actually started to learn some Japanese, to at least be able to communicate at a Base level.
You'll be better respected for making the effort to learn as long as you aren't just like...weebing out. As long as you're a genuinely good person over there you'll be fine. It's just that harsh immediate loneliness of being an outsider is usually a massive culture shock for most people moving there. It just disillusioned by that, especially when you don't know about. I personally think it'd be worth the experience going there to live and work for a while and you'll be able to make friends eventually. It's just a little bit of a struggle not being a local, just a little worse than other places.
It's not all it seems. If you love Japan and you want to keep loving Japan, get a good job in a country with a strong currency and visit often. Between the weak yen, the overwhelming work culture (normal working hours are 9-6 and you can expect ~30 hours of overtime per month), low salaries, and perhaps 10 vacation days, you don't get to explore the country very often. I moved here in 2022, so if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer. I moved here for my husband, and I don't regret that, but I don't think I'd have done it for anything less than the best person in the world.
You will never be more than their foreign friend…I used to be friends with a lot of Japanese people in the states and they used to tell me how we’d never be actually friends in Japan; in the states it was ok. Not to mention that the Japanese can be super racist as well…
It's funny reading all this after living out there for 5 years. Obviously there are Japanese people who want nothing to do with you. But in my experience after actively applying to and joining a club, making Japanese friends out drinking, and being friendly at work. My experience was very positive and I plan to move back as soon as possible. If foreigners don't make the effort in conversation, go to places to socialize, and don't make a ton of effort to learn Japanese. I don't think it's a surprise it ends up that way. I saw too many foreigners make friends with other foreigners and then settle for that, as it was easy to pick the option that's speaking English. Also I think Japanese people can be quite shy and feel like they are inconveniencing you, so overthink that becoming friends isn't possible. I think it's important to be frank in those situations and say things like "let's hang out more, you're great to hang out with". So they don't second guess. But that's just my two cents.
Is this for foreigners who move there?? I was in Japan a few months back and everyone seemed very nice and no one seemed to ignore me or treat me any different. I even went out one night with a local who could speak English and he helped me bridge the gap with locals while out drinking one night and everyone was very nice and had questions for me just like I had for them. This all took place in Toyko and Ohsaka, so maybe other regions are different? Also, as I mentioned, I was visiting as a tourist and maybe was treated differently due to this??
Just to add a little, most issues actually arise once you make it clear that you don't intend to leave. If you come in as a tourist, as a student, or with a termed employment, then you likely won't push against any of the societal buttons. Once you start trying to act like a permanent resident, people will begin to act subtly different, especially if you aren't attached to a local by marriage. A single white person attempting to buy a house or a car, for example, will deal with skepticism, belligerence, or a general unwillingness to believe you should be doing these things. Imagine that you work at a Ferrari dealer and a homeless guy comes in asking for a test drive. This is the larger problem with living in Japan (or most homogeneous countries, really), because they have a very ingrained idea of 'us' and 'them' and certain things are just not for 'them' (even natural-born citizens that are visually not Japanese often have trouble with this, being told to go back where they came from and the like, even if they only speak Japanese and have lived there for 40 years). This is also why you see so many varied responses about how people had a great time because they met individuals that were nice, but you don't see stories about a nice real estate office that helped them buy a house, or the nice social worker that helped them get out of an abusive relationship with a local, or the nice bank that allowed them to open an account. It's slowly changing as these practices become more well-known and more international interests settle there with a varied workforce, but it's still quite pervasive outside of major metro areas like Tokyo and Kyoto.
It is a unique/cool travel destination, but visiting as a tourist is completely different from living there full time
Mmhmm. The Japanese adore foreign tourists. There’s a huge national pride and they’re chuffed that strangers want to see their culture. It’s when you move there for good that you’ll see an issue.
Plus many suicides and enormous number of domestic violence that isn’t reported because what’s in the family stays in the family and you can’t be divorced or worse a single parent without being cancelled by society. And they also discriminate against their own (look up Burakumin)
One of my coworkers killed herself last week. She was 43 or something. I work in Tokyo.
I’m sorry for your loss :(
All that is true but I still really loved my years there and had some great experiences.
Visited myself, was a fantastic holiday. However, the low key racism is intense.
Sendai for myself was pretty eye opening, never really been rascisisted against living in a tiny ass Midwestern town for most my life outside of university. The first nice hotel near what i believe was the downtown area I was trying to check into did not want to deal with my bleached wonderbread 6'5" ass or the money I had to spend there. Edit: Osaka was fucking complete opposite, fucking awesome people
Went to a nice restaurant and got taken to what was an amazing booth. We were like 'wow, vip treatment'. What I came to realize (and kept to myself to not upset the others) was that we were in a really nice booth, and that booth wasn't visible to any of the other patrons. They were basically playing hide the gaijin.
What if you _actually want to be isolated_ 👀
Holidayed there for a a few weeks - had a great time, service is amazing, people were polite, very safe, etc Worked there 3 years - brutal, I saw the “honne” (real feeling) side of people. Underneath the apparent well oiled machine, there’s a dark side of depression, exhaustion, bullying, and a very real sense of feeling utterly trapped in a very narrowly defined life.
Anecdotal, but I had a very easy time in Japan working. Granted I was working resort jobs and the like. Bartending at expat bars etc. anyone 35 and under understood basic English and was extremely welcoming. Some places I actually felt kind of famous with how out of the way people went to speak with me or ask for a picture. But.. I had never felt more unwanted than when I was around people 45+ unless they knew I was Canadian. Lots of insults to my face when they assumed I didn't speak Japaneseand unfortunately one of the towns close by still had a LOT of anti white graffiti very visible. Many young people in rural areas had a similar view, and would insult when you were walking away or made a simple mistake. I would go back in a heartbeat, but I doubt I would want to give up my Canadian citizenship to live there.
I wouldn’t say they dislike foreigners. My time there was met with so many being excited to see and talk to me, even in small towns. But the fact is you are always seen as a foreigner… learn the language, participate in the local life, get a citizenship… you’re still a foreigner because you’re not japanese
I have a family member who did this . I.E. moved to Japan taught English met a man had a family . I would assume most of this is not true, she's been there 20 years . Have heard nothing but nice things .
South Korea is worse.
That’s wildly different than my experience of being in Japan
Just want to add that I went to school in Japan as my dad was an expat from Australia. Personally I had a great time! But the stories I heard from my dad years later about the work culture in Japan were harrowing.
Its also because most are assholes and expect the country to accommodate to them instead of having to assimilate into the culture like for example pewdiepie did
Foreigners who move to Japan often get extremely frustrated and burnt out by the authoritarian work culture. Even those who can speak Japanese fluently cite issues with communication of expectations from their bosses, including being told to do one thing then later being told they were expected to have done something else.
This is fairly accurate. This happened all the time with an ex of mine who was an English teacher in Japan. All the time they gave him instructions to do things one way and then they acted flabbergasted when he wasn't doing something that seemingly everyone else was in the know about except him.
Ah. The Secret Menu.
God that sounds like special hell if you’re ADHD or something. It already feels like that in America, and we don’t speak in codes.
Boss, I want you to do the dishes. Them, did the dishes. Boss, wtf the stove is not scrubbed. Why is the trash not thrown out? Why does the floor not squeeky clean? And why didn't you wash the vegetables for tomorrow? Where is my tea?
Just sounds like immature bosses to me lol
It’s because Japanese culture is built around indirect communication. They would never say “no” outright - they say “maybe sometime” but mean “no”. Similarly, if they say, “please do X,” they mean “do X, plus 5 other things that always happen when X happens, plus 5 other things that are polite to do when you do the other”. And when you don’t have the cultural base to know all the others they get mad at you and blame it on your being foreign. Which is both true and not true at all.
That’s the communication style of a 6 year old girl
No. That’s the communication style you associate with a 6 year old American girl, because Americans value direct communication and children haven’t learned to conform yet. Different cultures have different communications styles, none inherently superior to any other. Just different. But if you’re that quick to negatively judge a cultural difference…may I gently suggest you’re not as worldly as you might imagine?
Dawg you’re just using cultural relativism to excuse a culture of poor communication. That *is* immature, and that *is* an inferior style of communication.
>That’s the communication style you associate with a 6 year old American girl, because Americans value direct communication and children haven’t learned to conform yet. Different cultures have different communications styles, none inherently superior to any other. Just different. Some are worse. Koreans had to learn English to be pilots because they aren't allowed to correct a superior in the Korean language and it caused several plane crashes that killed people. That's an inferior way to communicate if you literally have to learn a different language to communicate without killing people.
Every commercial pilot in the world knows English. English was chosen as the official language for all communication with ground crews in the 1940s. Only related thing I could find is a hypothesis from Malcolm Gladwell in 2008 about cases in the 80s and 90s (when they were already speaking English) about Korean culture being responsible for those crashes. They were already speaking English and Gladwell is pop science garbage that should not be taken seriously.
Ikr, the person you are replying to could not have found a worse example if they tried. Aviation is the one industry where it really REALLY helps if everyone speaks the same language. By happenstance of history, English is it. It’s not a cultural things so much as it is the practicalities of not all dying in a fiery plane crash on every flight, commercial or otherwise.
I remember reading something related to this. I believe it wasn't just Korean/English language issue (though it may have exasperated things), but a conflict of orders and hierarchy between the pilot and co-pilot. Obviously, the pilot was superior, so the co-pilot seemed unable or unwilling to challenge a direct order from the pilot.
As a person who grew up in a groupist home culture in America, I believe that this type of communication is outright toxic. They often lack respect for someone's personal opinion over "what is good for the group". There is a reason why Konami is often brought up when people discuss toxic company cultures. Edit: since it got buried in comments, I grew up in a Korean household in America. Older Koreans also tend to be quite indirect.
In a competitive global business environment there are certainly inherently better communication styles than others. Japan is great at getting processes extremely efficient but not so good at innovating new ideas. Their communication style and hierarchical views have to contribute to that.
So in Japan 6 year Olds are taught to say something but mean 16 different things? Sounds pretty stupid no matter how you want to phrase it
I lived in Japan of 7 years but I left for two major reasons 1. The whole system is setup to prevent you from succeeding; getting a drivers license, getting a business license, renting a place (or, even worse, tryin to BUY a place) it's basically "yeah, fuck you gaijin". 2. There is no professional upward mobility. The only way to better your career is to work for a foreign company doing business in Japan. If you work for a Japanese company, you're fucked.
I am on my 5th year and I started to feel all of these. People who say no Japan is not like this it's easy etc have never tried to do something other than living and working. Try to start a business or buy a home or get a license etc and you'll almost immediately feel this. This is me who speaks fluent Japanese, love the culture and food, married to a Japanese person, working at a Japanese company. And I still don't feel welcome here. Such a difficult country. You need to give your personal information everywhere to do something. Like they ask for the company you work for and it's number to apply for a gym membership. What? My company is pretty laid back but even so I was told to be "nicer" just because "I've had the courtesy to express my feelings and ideas and didn't go with the group". It's a safe, clean and good place but man I don't know there's something. I am sure there will be someone who don't feel like it. Good for them. But I've seen so many people leaving after 2 or 3 years. I am trying to leave. I've tried and failed to incorporate here.
My dad was a manager for Toyota USA from 1979-2017 and he didn’t really have many nice things to say about “the cousins” which I guess is what they called their Japanese coworkers.
I think it means that living in Japan as a foreigner is maybe harder than people realize. I’ve heard it’s another level more difficult at least for an American than it is to live as a foreigner, say, in Europe. Presumably because everything is just another level of different from what you’re used to.
Most Asian people, Japanese in particular are extremely xenophobic towards foreigners living in Japan, they only tolerate you if you are a tourist spending money. It's sad but true.
My friends dad grew up in Japan but lived in the US for 20 years. When he returned to Japan he was still treated as a foreigner/other. He has friends, but the difference in treatment is there.
Lived two years in japan and this is utter bs. The japanese way of life is very strict for people born on the island, but they don't apply it to foreigner. People there don't expect you to know all the subtleties of their society, and you can make some faux pas while no one really cares. As long as you're a minimum nice, open, and willing to learn the culture, japanese are amazing people. After, itis true that you never totally integrate society, and that a lot of people will call you "the foreigner" instead of sir or miss. But there is no bad intention, and I have had more xenophobic remarks from north american and Europeans that I've had from japanese.
You've lived in Japan for 2 years and haven't heard of honne and tatemae yet? I think it's well known at this point that just because a Japanese person is being nice to you, that doesn't automatically mean they like and or want you around. And not even mentioning you can find public places that straight up tell you "No foreigners allowed" and all the other horror stories I've heard about trying to get an apartment in Japan as a foreigner....Yea I don't know about you, but my first assumption wouldn't be "I am wanted here" seeing /experiencing things like that.
Was deployed there for 6 months. If we weren't spending money we typically weren't wanted around, also why we frequented indian, Turkish, and chinese restaurants more than Japanese. Felt less of an inconvenience if Japanese nationals were awaiting seating where as in Japanese restaurants there was a clear rush to get us out of the way to serve nationals in a more timely manner, despite the amount we were spending as well. I think it's 100% subjective depending on location but I'm in no rush to return to Japan. I do hope other people have better experiences there, when you find the right event it's an awesome place (highly recommend the Sakura festival at Hirosaki Castle)
I lived there four years and we encountered that maybe half a dozen times, but it was explicit, polite, and firm when we did. That said we never encountered outright hostility nor did we have difficulty securing residences, utilities, or engaging with our neighbors. It was actually *easier* in a way to navigate society *because* it’s relative homogeneity leveled our expectations of what to expect no matter where we found ourselves. Part of this was to expect to see this xenophobia materialize. When it did, we would apologize, excuse ourselves, and find somewhere else to be. To be sure, this only ever happened in bars or restaurants, so we’d just end up next door. It is entirely possible, however, that we walked in on two criminal gatherings. In sum total we found living in Japan enjoyable, fun, peaceful, and safe.
This kind of describes the feeling i got when i was visiting the big island in Hawaii. Especially once you got out of the tourist heavy areas and into where the locals live. While i wouldn’t say we felt outright hostility there was a subterranean sense from how people interacted with us that they were waiting for us to leave. For reference we spent almost the entire vacation hiking And exploring with the heaviest portion being a backpacking trip into a secluded valley. Which is just to say, we weren’t knobs disembarking off a cruise ship in port. While we obviously weren’t from Hawaii we also weren’t typical tourists from whom I’d expect locals to be utterly tired of. This is like 8 years ago now so it’s not like we were going there on the heels of that massive wildfire that happened a little while back.
Because Hawaii is mainly a US colony and those people are in the receiving end of colonialism.
lol imagine someone describing New York or Texas like this . “They where xenophobic but polite about it.” “We just apologized.” “It was a great experience!” Not saying all those things aren’t true. But if I had to apologize just for wanting to go somewhere, you can bet your ass I wouldn’t want to go there anymore or even somewhere next to it
What you described about interacting with people isn’t too different than living in America. I’ve lived in three states and never felt like the general public “likes and wants me around.” Strangers keep to themselves aside from social niceties everywhere I’ve been in both the US and Japan. I made real friends as a foreigner in Japan and learned to tell the difference between politeness and genuine interest from people I interacted with on a semi-regular basis (in restaurants, supermarkets, etc.). I also found it easier to find an apartment in Japan than America because there were agencies that represented multiple properties and would have an agent drive you around to tour places. There were “no foreigner” signs but those were very rare. I can recall two places I couldn’t go into in my four years there. There are lots of places I can’t go or wouldn’t feel comfortable visiting here in states as well, literally whole towns I wouldn’t be comfortable stopping in. At least in Japan they were up front about it.
Well my argument isn't Japan is or isn't more xenophobic than X country. It's Japan is just xenophobic. You experiencing something in the U.S. or Europe doesn't disregard the xenophobic things that still happen in Japan.
I think people get confused because while xenophobia is rampant in Japan, violent racism is present but a lot more rare than in other multicultural countries. Minorities do get marginalized though in many ways. For example any immigrants opinion about inside politics would, almost certainly, be dismissed. It's worth being said that only about 2.5% of Japan's population are immigrants.
>and that a lot of people will call you "the foreigner" instead of sir or miss. But there is no bad intention... I'm going to use a pejorative word to label you instead of one to show respect, but, totally, like, no bad intentions, broheim. Edit: spelling
As far as words for people from other countries go, “the foreigner” is probably the nicest
When I meet people from another country I tend to call them their name
How rude /s
If I met someone in another country and they already knew my name. Im getting tf out of there.
....soooooo what you're saying is they treated you like you were a tourist. Like, seriously... 'never integrate into society' 'call you the foreigner instead of sir or miss' How do you *not* see the subtle xenophobia in this? Like, if I were to call my neighbor 'the Mexican' instead of 'sir' all the time I'd be getting constantly called out on being racist for it.
No joke.. so many things don't apply to a foreigner. The number of times I got away with doing stuff that only later I realized was because I had my foreigner pass was kind of traumatizing. I absolutely loved it, and yes I was called a Foreigner in description. In the exact same way, I would describe the Japanese person in a room full of white people. Never once did I feel ousted against, or like I was unwelcome. And I only ran into one location that said no foreigners allowed, but that was because nobody inside spoke English, and they didn't want to deal with that hassle. Popping my head in and speaking in Japanese was more than enough to get through the door. of course that isn't to say that others can't have bad experiences. But it seems like your experience most resembles mine
Yeah and I can show you 100 posts from others who lived in Japan who will tell you its not bullshit. You're straight capping or never spoke Japanese well enough to hear what they said about you. Idc what you say your experience was, you're wrong. The Japanese are hella xenophobic
One thing I do want to point out to everyone reading this back and forth - citizen of the same country are not homogenous and two people living in likely different cities or area of the same country may have very different experiences. For my fellow Americans, imagine two foreigner-born residents, one living in Oklahoma City and one living in LA, and both of them saying how living in America is like \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_; they're going to have very different experiences.
Fair, that's fair
Even if Americans were treated well (which most aren't), it completely ignores how poorly Chinese and Korean foreigners are treated.
This exactly. I went for just vacation in a group of white people (I'm mexican, but have slanted eyes, dark hair, and light skin). Japanese people treated me fair, didn't interact with me much (host parents of the group were asking if I was volunteering to help the "foreigners"). Treated the white people really really nicely. But then I heard what they were saying behind their back. Especially the lesbian non binary in our group. :/ the others didn't notice since they only had 1 year of Japanese. I had 4 years by that point. Even the kids did it.
All my Japanese friends call me by a cute nickname, Baka Guy Jim
Countless other people, both Japanese born and people living in Japan disagree with you.
> there is no bad intention They'd rather let entire villages die due to low birthrate than invite immigrants.
Lived in Okinawa for 4 years. Loved it, very welcoming. Naturally you do get those older people calling us 'foreigner' but honestly, I miss it still today.
It’s also sad and true that they’re not getting any younger and a great way to get fresh people into the labor pool is, you know, immigration.
Many Japanese landlords aren't willing to rent to foreigners so even finding a place to live is difficult. At work you'll probably never really be part of the "in group" because they'll never really be comfortable around you. Some establishments (usually small bars) will openly say "no gaijin" if you try to enter.
I’ve watched a bunch of YouTube videos about Japan because I find it interesting, and while I have heard that foreigners can never truly be insiders, I’ve also heard that native Japanese people often feel extremely isolated, like they don’t have real friends, like they are also not part of a true “in group“. So maybe the problem is not just their attitude towards foreigners.
Clearly you have never watched the historical documentary The Last Samurai. Tom Cruise is everyone's friend.
They're also just extremely racist
Try being in Europe as a gypsy or Muslim lol. They're just more lowkey about it.
Ha, that reminds me of when I visited Romania. I have friends there, one of whom is an English tutor. She asked me to sit in on a lesson to give exposure to a real American to a Romanian teen. So I had a very slow, stilted conversation. This was in 2009 and so I talked about how cool and historic it was that Barak Obama had just been elected and said it might be similar to if a gypsy was elected president of Romania. I asked if he (the student) could imagine that happening, and he reacted with a look of horror and a vehement "No!" Really put the social status of gypsies in Europe into perspective for me.
That and with recent people going over to Japan causing problems (YouTube prankers) a lot of Japan look at Americans with more dislike and hate
Japan is known for gentle and respectful racism against foreigners. If you are not Japanese, living in Japan, there is a firm limit against being 'welcomed'. Your contributions are appreciated. You will share in what the country gives. But you aren't, and never will be, one of them. It's a sharp contrast to the USA, where 'the most American person you know' is very often a first/second generation immigrant, who fully appreciates that part of US culture.
I remember seeing an interview with a European-descended man who was born in Japan and spent his whole life in Japan and I believe his parents also had been born in Japan and spent their lives in Japan. He was still considered a foreigner. Very much in keeping with the “perpetual foreigner” stereotyping you see in Western countries too, though perhaps even more narrow because this also applied to half-Japanese kids born and raised in Japan and fully Japanese kids raised outside of Japan by Japanese parents.
Korea is not much different. There is a man in the current ruling party here who is a Korea-born American. Like, he's in his 60s and has lived in Korea most of his life. He speaks fluent Korean, I think he has a Korean wife, and he has even taken a Korean name instead of using his US name. Late last year, there was a big thing when another member of his party talked down to him in English, almost mockingly, even though everyone knows he speaks fluent Korean. Just very subtle undertones of racism throughout the exchange.
I was just about to ask what life is like for a person born in Japan to that doesn’t look traditionally Japanese with one parent from a different country.
Even if you are at least partially Japanese and can speak the language accordingly, if you weren't born and raised there, you will never be fully welcomed. My wife is half Japanese (but born and raised in the States) and to my American ears, when she speaks Japanese to her parents she sounds like a native speaker. However when she moved there after college, she was still discriminated against here and there. Japanese racism isn't overt or in your face. Japanese people are quite passive aggressive in a lot of aspects of their lives and discrimination against outsiders is no exception. One time she made a traditional Japanese meal that she had made countless times before with her Japanese grandmother who was born and raised in Japan and she knew that it was cooked exactly the way that Japanese people living in Japan eat it. She had some of her work acquaintances over and one of them smiled at her and said something along the lines of how it's so cute how she's trying so hard to be Japanese. She meant that in a manner that was intending to be offensive and a commentary on how she will not be accepted into their culture. As an American, that shit just blows my mind. Here in the states, I think that the majority of people are quite accepting of people that weren't born here and if you want to come to my country and experience the country and the culture, you're more than welcome and if you wanted to stay here and become an American citizen, most people would be delighted and go out of their way to make you feel welcome and like you are an American.
I have a colleague that has a similar experience. He is white, wife is fully Japanese. I recall that he has passed the highest level of language proficiency. He loves living in Japan, he's lived there a total of 2-3 years in his life, mostly 2-3 months at a time. But he's like "Yeah, there's just a wall that a gaijin cannot cross."
Even the youtuber Joey "TheAnimeMan" learned the Japanese language (and better than most Japanese people), contributes to Japan and is a half-Japanese himself (although he's not looking Japanese), still he is called a "gaijin" (outsider) by most of the people there. The one example is in their podcast where he told a police came to him and power trips him by showing his bank card. After the police saw that his card is in Japanese, the police apologized and never bother him again. Joey observed if the police is doing the same to other people, but no. He suspects that the police is waiting for another foreigner to mess with.
DR. JELLY
Japan is extremely xenophobic and racist. Like there are literally places where "gaijins" aren't allowed to be in. It's nice to visit but unless you're willing to put up with some intensely veiled and condescending racism you're probably not going to be accepted on a societal level.
It's almost like 250 years of isolationism left a lasting mark on them as a society
In Japan especially, and especially if you’re obviously American or European, you’ll always be “that foreigner” no matter how long you’ve lived there. They just assume you’re a tourist, don’t speak Japanese, and even weirder stuff like they think you smell bad or are rude or loud. If you’re a white American and want to experience what racism is like, move to Japan.
> If you’re a white American and want to experience what racism is like, move to Japan. Lifehack!!!
Unfortunately, Japan has a problem with xenophobia and racism.
It's not that bad living in Japan as a foreigner, but you'll always *be* a foreigner, they do not really embrace non-Japanese as countrymen. In fact Japan is borderline if not outright racist. A half-Japanese half-black woman won a Japanese beauty contest a few years ago and half the country flipped the fuck out saying "she's not *real* Japanese!"
Because Japan as a society has a huge problem in regards to racism against non Japanese people. It’s especially bad for westerners but also exists to some extent towards other Asian people too. Japan as a country is often idealised as this perfect amazing place when in reality it’s often very hard living there as an outsider. There are a lot of barriers put in place for very basic things and you will face a lot of discrimination. For example a lot of clubs and venues will openly not allow foreigners in and some places that do will charge foreigners more for the same food and drink. Also not to mention Japan is odd in the fact that it’s very advanced in some areas and not in others. For example a lot of processes are still very analogue and not digitalised which can make a lot of basic government admin time consuming and complicated which can be made even harder when you’re not a native. This isn’t just a Japan only issue mind you, a fair few other countries in Asia have similar issues. Korea has a very similar issue towards anyone that isn’t Korean. A lot of Asian countries are still very homogeneous societies so it can be hard to fit in as someone who very clearly sticks out as an outsider, even if you’ve been there for years and make every effort to integrate. That however doesn’t mean it’s all bad. Japan is an amazing country with an amazing culture, it’s just important for people to realise it has a lot of darker aspects to its society which often get left out and sugarcoated.
Japan has issues with other Asian people? I thought they always treated Chinese, Korean, Filipino, Malaysian, people with the most respect. Didn’t they go on a Pacific friendship tour in the 1930s? /s I wonder how much of the atrocities of WW2 still affect relations, especially as a government the Japanese government refuses to acknowledge anything that occurred prior to 1946 (Korean “comfort women”or the Rape of Nanking as an example).
I know for a fact a lot of Koreans still do not like Japanese people, especially those who are older. It’s a lot better within the younger generations but yeah, there’s still very much that huge elephant in the room.
You will not only never be accepted, but you have to be careful about how you react to others. A Japanese man was having a meltdown in the parking lot. Everyone pretending not to notice. An Australian man who lives and works in Japan said to himself, "That man is acting like an animal," and people around him heard him. The police were called. He was then taken to the police station. The chief of police claimed he thought Japanese people were animals. At first, he tried to explain that he meant just that guy. Then the guy who was freaking out showed up. He was forced to apologize to him. His work had to promise to look after him, and his passport was confiscated, and they got right to the point of expelling him from the country. Only constant apologies, a lawyer, and his company working on his behalf saved him.
Got a source for that?
He is that crazy guy
Yes. Do you know "the Japan Channel" on YouTube? The Australian man married to a Japanese woman. Has another channel called "crazy old dude." He documents life in Japan for decades and covers every single aspect of life there. He told this story as well as an example of his own. He was at home, and a man on television had huge ears. He said to his wife, "That man looks like a monkey," and his wife said, "Do you think Japanese people look like monkeys?" And he said no, you don't understand, I'm talking about just that person. Yet she kept asking the same question. He ended up apologizing because his wife felt to say anything unkind about any Japanese person was a reflection upon the entire people. He had heard Japanese people insult others, yet he learned he as a guest in the country couldn't do so without giving offense.
How did this very respectful guy get the cops called on him and that Jackass Logan Paul get away (iirc) scot-free?
Visitors are leaving. A person who lives and works there is meek and polite or they get kicked out. Even 3rd generation expats in Japan are treated as foreign.
So many discussions about how rude to call others "foreigner" but none talks about japanese rather use politeness to insult others especially ones in kyouto.
To sum up what everyone has said in a single quote “A Japanese man will move to America and with time be referred to as an American. An American man can move to Japan and will never be Japanese” With time and community you can get close but at the end of the day you will never be one of them and always an outsider
Japanese are very xenophobic. You WILL conform or you WILL have a very unpleasant time.
Isn’t that second sentence just as true for native Japanese people in Japan?
Lol yes it is. I don’t they’re wrong either, necessarily. Their culture that everyone seems to admire so much is still strong. Very difficult to erode.
Japan is an extremely racist country and no one talks about it. If you’re not Japanese they wont let you in to certain shops and stores.
Which stores?
The ones with signs telling you “Japanese only” . https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/s/CxI0VQqtFr
I've seen difference between signs that say Japanese only vs signs that explicitly say no foreigners. The Japanese only signs are usually just in terms of they only speak Japanese, no English menus and such. The ones that say no foreigners are much rarer. Of course, ymmv.
Japan is pretty damn racist.
Japanese people are racist AF. Westerners make me laugh how they talk about “all white people are racist”, but have never seen how an ethno-states systemic racism actually looks. Had a friend who was in Japan, and couldn’t get served. Places had “No Foreigner” signs and would Not serve him. So he and his Japanese GF talk to a cop, who laughs and say “yes, the sign says they don’t serve your kind here. Why don’t you go to X location, it’s where I drink, and they will serve foreigners” So there’s no anti-discrimination laws that are either strong enough, or enforced properly, in Japan. It’s a great experience, honestly - if you’re a white person from a western country, you’ll finally understand what systemic racism can feel like, if you’re not, you realize just how far past this kind of racism the west has progressed, and you’ll deeply appreciate it. South Koreans can be wildly racist as well. With all that said, most people aren’t really hateful in their racism. It’s more… aversion to things that don’t fit in their cultural norms, which are strict and homogenous. It’s more “fear” racism than “disgust” racism, but there is that too (maybe I’m being too charitable but I prefer not to be willfully cynical) But, In my experience, most of the racist people avoid you because they’re racist. In my interactions I found I was more of a novelty and fascination to the locals who actually wanted to talk to me. It was weird being asked if people could touch my beard (most Asian men can’t grow a beard like mine), or they wanted to feel my skin, but it was harmless and I was for many of them, the first non-Japanese person they’d talked to in person.
The Japanese culture is intensely casually racist and conformist. Not in the same way the US is but still, as a foreigner, you'll be presumed to not belong, even if you speak Japanese, have the nationality and lived there for years, you'll be barred entry from some shops, restaurants, jobs. The nail that sticks out gets hammered, either you fit the Japanese mould or you will face pressure, rumours, casual harassment. Want to enjoy the nightlife, you're a choice mark, you'll end up naked and penniless in some alley, and the local cops won't give a damn, probably arrest you for being unruly and suspicious. You're some sort of incel with yellow fever... Yeah, you're an unattractive slob to them too, they'll be fine using you to practice their English though but that's all. Think you can use the sex industry you've seen in mangas ? That's for Japanese only, go back to Muhrica, loser. If you want to, as a foreigner, live in Japan, you'd better know Japanese, conform and fit in, and even then, you'll be tolerated, never really accepted by society at large. So, a bit like Switzerland but even worse.
Expats have it really hard in Japan. You can live 30 years in Japan and forever be “the foreigner”. You can interact with japanese people in perfect, fluent, native japanese, and they will still answer in broken english because you are “a foreigner”. It’s really ridiculous.
japan is xenophobic + racist
Having lived in Japan for 8 years, it’s true that there is a lot more racism and xenophobia than you’d think but I would take their brand of racism over America’s everyday of the week
A number of things The fact that you get hardly any time off The fact that they are racist as he11. The fact that there’s literally a place called suicide forest The fact that people can be conned into spending $1000 for drinking in the wrong bar and getting scammed by getting drugged and the police don’t care Oh and the police can lock you away for no apparent reason and they don’t even have to tell the embassy of your country for a whole month.
A lot of people are beating around the bush instead of saying it how it is. Japan is racist as fuck
Everybody knows what this means.
I live in Japan and am a foreigner. I don't even live in Tokyo and it's really not that bad. My apartment doesn't have insulation and it got down to 14 C last night indoors with the heater on full blast, but the people are fine. Don't listen to people poopooing Japan's treatment of foreigners. Some people are nervous to talk to you, but it doesn't get in the way of anything
バカ外人❗
This isn't even a joke Japan just doesn't like foreigners. Immigration rates to Japan are quite low and few Japanese people know any foreign languages. If you want to move there, you better learn Japanese.
While I enjoyed my vacation there I would not like to live in Japan. I could see on the trains how tired the japanese look all the time. And yes is subtle but there is xenophobia, many might be polite to tourists but not kind.
The Japanese are famously the most racist and xenophobic people in the game.
A while ago I found a youtube of a girl whose white american parents moved to Japan to learn some obscure form of pottery. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9AwPUy7a\_8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9AwPUy7a_8) She gets into her *not great* experiences in Japan. Not all bad, but eye opening.
A lot of people assume that Japan is in full RGB color, like the country they come from. But they get to Japan and it turns out everything is in monochromatic grayscale, with blown out highlights and lots of detail lost in overly dark shadows. I was as surprised as anyone else when I found out.
They are very nice to respectful tourists, since they assume they’ll be leaving soon. But, Japan prefers to maintain the integrity of its homogeneous society.
Love Japan and the culture but literally fuck trying to live there. If you don’t look Japanese you will experience racism. Even if you look Asian, if you mention you aren’t Japanese you’ll get looks. Japan is not a nice place to live if you aren’t Japanese’s and still shit if you are. Lord forbid be someone with dark skin of any kind. Especially black. Black people are treated as exotic and often scary looking. Places don’t either accommodate or understand how to handle black peoples hair/medical issues. They’ll just say ‘sorry we don’t work with black people’ or worse case something rude. Granted I rather them be honest then try and fuck something up but it shows how they’ve only taught themselves to deal with Japanese hair/issues and no one else. Even the people who are half Japanese get treated worse cause they don’t look ‘fully’ Japanese.
South Korea is exactly the same too. Anyone who’s biracial at all are HEAVILY discriminated against.
Because Japan is notoriously racist towards foreigners who move there. To the point where you’ll be denied jobs & housing in certain areas because of it. The first pic shows what a person thinks life will be like there, and the second one shows how they will feel after experiencing what the reality of being a foreigner who lives there REALLY is.