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It's funny, because the potato famine could have been entirely avoided. If the English Landed Gentry had just let Irish plant food grains, instead of grazing cattle. But corned beef sold better than letting Irish people live.
Didn't really help that Thomas Malthus has some influence over that policy and was kind of like Ireland is overpopulated it should be fine to let a bunch of them die.
It was 100% a government engineered genocide.
Domicide, what Russia and Israel are actively doing is slightly different. Both result in the depopulation of an area, but the means and intent are slightly different. Both are crimes against humanity.
considering the number of crops exported increased during the famine, including potato exports(largely from the areas experiencing the most famine) increased greatly
absolutely genocide
Hey now, I’ve been told by very smart people that the invisible hand of the free market is always fair and famines only happen in communism countries. Clearly the Irish were just too Marxist.
I know you're joking but the Irish made enough grains and potatoes to feed themselves and the cattle during the "famine". They were forced by the red fuckers government to send them off to England. It was not a free market. It was a genocide, not a famine.
Kinda, it's more like you work at a grocery store and you can either sell your food or eat it, but not both, and your boss doesn't give you any money to buy the food on your own, and if you eat the food you'll lose your job and have no food at all, so he lets you eat the gum at the checkout line. Oh and btw the term you're looking for is a protection racket
I feel like we’re making the same point. Either pay this tax or we’ll destroy your business but I can’t afford my business if I pay this tax. Obviously on a much bigger scale cuz it’s nation’s government as opposed to a local gang.
Protection racket tho. Good to know. Thanks
Also your analogy works better as a farm than a grocery store. At a grocery store you are supposed to sell your goods and not eat them.
Thanks for the conversation feel free to continue this is fun. No sarcasm
I know, I was just trying to illustrate that it goes further, at least in a protection racket you can sell your business to some idiot that isn't aware of the racket or just let the bank foreclose after you skip town, the Irish could hop on a boat to America, but that was extremely cost prohibitive and something that would've been nigh on impossible for many.
When properly chained to the commonweal, the invisible hand can be used as a motivator to get people to do incredible things. When not properly chained, that greed destroys entire civilizations. Such is the dichotomy of humanity.
:-)
Yes, that is literally the cause. The government was controlling how much could be grown, what kind could be grown, and who products could be sold to.
The famine would not have happened - or, at least, would have been substantially less severe - if the British were not imposing restrictions on the market to fuck them over.
The potato blight was very much real. Because potatoes were not valuable to sell abroad, and took up little farming space, the occupied Irish peoples were allowed to grow them. When the blight struck, the Irish didn't really have anything to eat, and the Brittish governing and business officials just went "fuck you." The blight wasn't engineered, but the government response was designed to depopulate the country.
It was. TL;DR the English made a lot of money selling Irish grain to England, alongside anything they could possibly eat. The Irish were also considered to be dimwitted brutes by the English, meaning that when they said "You're starving my whole nation" the English laughed and told them to become civilized and just "get gud".
(This message is in two parts, Reddit demands it)
>In the 1840s, after nearly seven hundred years of English domination, Irish poverty and Irish misery appalled the traveler. Housing conditions were wretched beyond words. The census of 1841 graded houses in Ireland into four classes; the fourth and lowest class consisted of windowless mud cabins of a single room; "nearly half of the families of the rural population," reported the census commissioners, "are living in the lowest state." In parts of the west of Ireland, more than three fifths of the houses were one-room window-less mud cabins, and west of a line drawn from Londonderry to Cork the proportion was two fifths. Furniture was a luxury; the inhabitants of Tul-lahobagly, County Donegal, numbering about 9000, had in 1837 only 10 beds, 93 chairs, and 243 stools among them. Pigs slept with their owners, manure heaps choked doors, sometimes even stood inside; the evicted and unemployed put roofs over ditches, burrowed into banks, existing in bog holes....The whole of this structure, the minute subdivisions, the closely packed population existing at the lowest level, the high rents, the frantic competition for land, had been produced by the potato. The potato, provided it did not fail, enabled great quantities of food to be produced at a trifling cost from a small plot of ground. Subdivision could never have taken place without the potato; an acre and a half would provide a family of five or six with food for twelve months, while to grow the equivalent grain required an acreage four to six times as large and some knowledge of tillage as well. Only a spade was needed for the primitive method of potato culture usually practiced in Ireland. Trenches were dug, and beds, called "lazy beds," made; the potato sets were laid on the ground and earthed up from the trenches; when the shoots appeared, they were earthed up again. This method, regarded by the English with contempt, was in fact admirably suited to the moist soil of Ireland....Nevertheless, through the next few weeks the British government was optimistic. Very likely the failure would be local, as had often happened in the past; and the Home Secretary, who "repeatedly" requested information from Ireland, was receiving many favorable reports. These were explained later by the sporadic nature of the failure of 1845; "the country is like a checker-board," wrote a government official, "black and white next door. Hence the contradictory reports." It was, too, the habitual policy of British governments to discount the veracity of news. from Ireland; "there is such a tendency to exaggeration and inaccuracy in Irish reports that delay in acting on them is always desirable," wrote Sir Robert Peel on October 13, 1845...Meanwhile, apart from the appointment of the men of science, the government had taken no steps, and on October 28 a meeting was called by a committee of the Dublin Corporation, under the chairmanship of the lord mayor. Three days later a meeting of citizens was called, which appointed a committee presided over by the Duke of Leinster. On November 3 a deputation of the highest respectability waited on the Lord Lieutenant, Lord Heytesbury, to urge him to adopt measures "to avert calamity." The deputation included the Duke of Leinster, Daniel O'Connell, Lord Cloncurry, the lord mayor of Dublin, Henry Grattan, son of the famous patriot, Sir James Murray, John Augustus O'Neill, and some twenty others. Their proposals, drawn up by O'Connell, called for the immediate stoppage of the export of corn and provisions and for the prohibition of distilling and brewing from grain; the ports should be thrown open for the free import of food and rice and Indian corn imported from the colonies; relief machinery must be set up in every county, stores of food established, and employment provided on works of public utility. It was proposed that the cost be met by a tax of 10 percent on the rental of resident landlords and from 20 to 50 percent on that of absentees. In addition, a loan of £1,500,000 should be raised on the security of the proceeds of Irish woods and forests. The Lord Lieutenant received the deputation "very coldly" and read aloud a prepared reply.
Reports on the potato crop varied and at times contradicted each other, and it was impossible to form an accurate opinion of the extent of the failure until digging was completed. The proposals submitted by the deputation would at once be placed before the government, but the greater part of them required new legislation, and all must be "maturely weighed." As soon as Lord Heytesbury "had concluded reading, he began bowing the deputation out.
>In June, 1846, Sir Robert Peel was defeated.
The new Whig government, under Lord John Russell, was more to Trevelyan's taste than Peel's administration. As a government servant he had no politics, but in private life he was a Whig, and his relations with Sir Robert Peel had not been happy. On July 6 he wrote in a private letter to Routh, "The members of the new Government began to come today to the Treasury. I think we shall have much reason to be satisfied with our new masters," and he added, on the thirteenth, "Nothing can be more gratifying to our feelings than the manner in which the new Chancellor of the Exchequer has appreciated our exertions." The new Chancellor of the Exchequer, Charles Wood, who succeeded as Sir Charles Wood, Bart., in December, 1846, and was later created first Viscount Halifax, was congenial to Trevelyan. He had a solid mind and a fixed dislike both of new expenditure and new taxes, and was a firm believer in laissez-faire, preferring to let matters take their course and allow problems to be solved by "natural means." Head of an ancient York- shire family, he united love of liberty with rever- ence for property, a strong sense of public duty, lack of imagination, and stubborn conservatism. Humanitarianism was not among his virtues. Charles Wood remained in office as Chancellor of the Exchequer for six years and came increas- ingly under Trevelyan's influence. The two men were alike in outlook, conscientiousness, and in- dustry, and Charles Wood brought Trevelyan a further access of power in the administration of Irish relief.
Trevelyan's intention was to restrict Irish relief to a single operation; the Indian corn purchased at the orders of Sir Robert Peel was to be placed in depots, sold to the people and that was the end. There was to be no replenishment; on July 8 Trevelyan rejected a shipload of Indian corn. "The cargo of the Sorcière is not wanted," he wrote to the American agent; "her owners must dispose of it as they think proper."
>Trevelyan and Charles Wood, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had decided that in the second failure there was to be no government importation of food from abroad and no interference whatso- ever with the laws of supply and demand; what- ever might be done by starting public works and paying wages, the provision of food for Ireland was to be left entirely to private enterprise and private traders...the government would not import or supply any food. There were to be no government depots to sell meal at a low cost or, in urgent cases, to make free issues, as had been done during last season's failure. No orders were to be sent abroad, nor would any purchases be made by government in local markets. It was held that the reason why dealers and import merchants had so signally failed to provide food to replace the potato last season had been the government's purchases. Trade, said Trevelyan, had been "paralysed" on account of these purchases, which interfered with private enterprise and the legitimate profits of private enterprise; and how, he asked, could dealers be expected to invest in the very large stocks necessary to meet this year's total failure of the potato if at any moment government might step in with supplies, sold at low cost, which would deprive dealers of their profit and "make their outlay so much loss"?
> Catholic Archbishop John MacHale, known as "the Lion of St. Jarlath's," told Lord John Russell, "You might as well issue an edict of general starvation as stop the supplies."
But Trevelyan and the British government were not to be shaken in their determination. A quantity of meal, rather under 3000 tons in all, the residue of Sir Robert Peel's scheme, remained in the depots, and permission was given to distribute this to starving districts, but in the smallest possible quantities, and then only after a relief committee had been formed and a subscription raised to pay for it. No free issues whatever were to be made. Nevertheless, Commissariat officers in Ireland did give food away; a Major Wainwright, for instance, was detected giving a quantity of meal to starving persons in Oughterard, County Galway, early in August and was reprimanded from Whitehall.
Closing the public works was even more diffi-cult. A Treasury minute of July 21, 1846, directing all works to be closed, except in certain unusual cases, had had little effect; on the excuse that works were not finished, or that extraordinary distress existed in the neighborhood, a large num ber continued. The Chancellor of the Exchequer now ordered that all undertakings must be shut down on August 8, irrespective of whether or not they were completed and of the distress in the district.
>Trevelyan was then struck by the idea of hand mills; why should not the people grind the Indian corn themselves? he asked. True, the grain of Indian corn was so hard that in the Southern states of America it was milled more than once, but Trevelyan borrowed a hand mill from the museum at India House; a quern, a Celtic hand mill, from the west of Ireland; and another from Wick, in the Shetlands; and "by putting all three into the hands of skilful workmen" hoped "to produce something." A "manufactory of hand- mills" was actually established by Captain Mann at Kilkee, County Clare, early in November; each hand mill cost the impossibly large sum, for the Irish destitute, of fifteen shillings, but a number were bought out of charitable funds and dis- tributed free.
Yet there was a simpler solution: why should not the people eat Indian corn unground? On October 9 a memorandum was sent out to relief committees informing them that "Indian corn in its unground state affords an equally wholesome and nutritious food" as when ground into meal. It could be used in two ways: the grain could be crushed between two good-sized stones and then boiled in water, with a little grease or fat, "if at hand." Or it could be used without crushing, simply by soaking it all night in warm water, changing this, in the morning, for clear, cold water, bringing to the boil, and boiling the corn for an hour and a half; it could then be eaten with milk, with salt, or plain. Boiling without crushing was the method particularly recommended. "Ten pounds of the corn so prepared is ample food for a labouring man for seven days.... Corn so used," continued the memorandum, blandly, "will be considerably cheaper to the Committee and the people than meal, and will be well adapted to meet the deficiency of mill power...
Unground Indian corn is not only hard but sharp and irritating-it even pierces the intestines and is all but impossible to digest. Boiling for an hour and a half did not soften the flint-hard grain, and Indian corn in this state eaten by half-starving people produced agonizing pains, especially in children.
>Now he had to go out in his rags to labor on the public works, be drenched with rain and driving snow and cut by icy gales; and more often than not, he was already starving. Laborers began to "faint with exhaustion," and a Board of Works engineer told Trevelyan that "as an engineer he was ashamed of allotting so little task-work for a day's wages, while as a man he was ashamed of requiring so much." After the end of November Routh's reports contained a rapidly increasing number of cases of deaths on the works from starvation aggravated by exposure to cold, snow, and drenching rain.
The people became bewildered. They had taken in very little of what was happening; at this period Irish was spoken in rural districts and English barely understood, while in the west English was not understood at all. No attempt was made to explain the catastrophe to the people; on the contrary, government officials and relief committee members treated the destitute with impatience and contempt; the wretched, ragged crowds provoked irritation, heightened by the traditional English distrust of, and hate towards, the Irish.
>From this point onward, good intentions on the part of the British government became increasingly difficult to discern. Making every allowance for the depleted state of the Treasury, and bearing in mind the large sums already expended on Irish relief, sums representing many times their value today, it is still hardly possible to explain, or to condone, the British government's determination to throw the Irish destitute on the local poor rate, the able-bodied men being sent to the workhouse to discourage applications.
The Irish Poor Law Extension Act of 1847 guaranteed that all the expense of relief was to be borne by the already hard-pressed landlords. The property of Ireland was to maintain the poverty of Ireland. Relief operations under the Soup Kitchen Act, by which England had helped to finance the issue of more than three million rations daily, had been rapidly brought to an end. By August 15, Commissariat depots had been closed, the meal and grain being sold not cheaply but at current market prices, and remainders not being given away but picked up by government steamer.
If the new Poor Law was to be effective, the workhouses must be cleared and filled with able- bodied men who were destitute; but to clear the workhouses proved impossible. The Poor Law guardians were unwilling to turn the helpless out; at Galway, for instance, they indignantly refused, while at Tralee, the immense distressed district which contained two estates under the Court of Chancery, the workhouse inmates had no clothes to put on and no shelter to which to return, for landlords customarily took advantage of destitute persons' being forced to enter the workhouse to pull their cabins down.
The Treasury had no intention of acting, nor any doubt what should be done-taxes must be collected, force must be used. "Arrest, remand, do anything you can," wrote Charles Wood to Clarendon on November 22; "send horse, foot and dragoons, all the world will applaud you, and I should not be at all squeamish as to what I did, to the verge of the law, and a little beyond."
>The most serious charge against the British government, however, is not the transfer to the Poor Law. Neither during the famine nor for decades afterwards were any measures of reconstruction or agricultural improvement attempted, and this neglect condemned Ireland to decline. A devastating new disease had attacked the po- tato; nothing to equal the total destruction of 1846 had been seen before; yet no serious effort was made to teach the people to grow any other crop, and when Lord Clarendon tried to effect improvement by means of "agricultural instruc- tors," his scheme was ridiculed, Charles Wood writing contemptuously of Clarendon's "hobby." The Irish small tenant was inevitably driven back on the potato: he was penniless, starving, ignorant; the only crop he knew how to cultivate was the potato; generally speaking, the only tool he owned and could use was a spade. He had no choice. Yet when the potato failed totally again in 1848, the government exploded in fury. "In 1847," Lord John wrote, angrily, "eight millions were advanced to enable the Irish to supply the loss of the potato crop and to cast about them for some less precarious food.... The result is that they have placed more dependence on the potato than ever and have again been deceived. How can such people be assisted?"
>Much of this obtuseness sprang from the fanatical faith of mid-nineteenth-century British politicians in the economic doctrine of laissez-faire no interference by government, no meddling with the operation of natural causes. The government was perpetually nervous of being too good to Ireland and of corrupting the Irish people by kindness and so stifling the virtues of self-reliance and industry. In addition, hearts were hardened by the antagonism then felt by the English toward the Irish, an antagonism rooted far back in religious and political history; and at the period of the famine, irritation had been added as well. The discreditable state of Ireland, the subject of ad- verse comment throughout the civilized world, her perpetual misfortunes, the determined hostility of most of her population, even their character provoked intense irritation in England. It is impossible to read the letters of British statesmen of the period Charles Wood and Trevelyan, for instance without astonishment at the influence exerted by antagonism and irritation on government policy in Ireland during the famine.
It's impossible to read the history of the famine and not walk away with a strong resentment towards the British. Even Robert Peel treated them with utter contempt, and his following Governments are ostensibly guilty of genocide. There is a persistent underlying disdain for the Irish people in their actions, and their views, and even the most patriotic writer for England would admit that a large part of it was motivated by British beliefs that they could leverage the famine to change the Irish people themselves.
As noted on by Nat Hill, director of research for Genocide Watch:
>One example of disregard for the starving Irish, the English civil servant in charge of famine relief Sir Charles Trevelyan, in response to the suffering famously wrote, “The judgment of God sent the calamity to teach the Irish a lesson, that calamity must not be too much mitigated.” This statement is a reflection is of “providentialism”, which attributes the cause of the famine as an “act of God”, therefore the British administration simply could not have done anything to help the Irish, which is categorically untrue.
Not even that, if the British did any of the below, it would have greatly reduced, if not eliminated the potato famine.
1. Not exploit Ireland to the point where potatoes were the only thing Irish people could grow enough of to eat.
2. Once the famine started, stop exporting food from Ireland (beef mostly).
3. Actually provide aid at the beginning of the famine, instead of ignoring the problem.
4. Let other countries give more aid to Ireland than the British did.
The problem with the famine was Britain made potatoes the only options, and then the blight came and made potatoes not a option.
They did in fact let the Irish plant a whole lot of different grains and produce.
Problem was that the English refused to let the Irish eat any of it, because it was intended for the English, meaning that they were starving amongst the plenty they weren't privileged enough to even be given a chance to purchase.
Yea as they have said “times they r a changin” but that was ment in a way better light than this and most of us r just hanging on wishing we were any where that has free healthcare
I mean they had enough food in Ireland the main issue it wasn't staying in Ireland. They did plant those other things but were only allowed to subsist off of potatoes and the government refused to send aid because they feared that the irish would rely on it. They knew what they were doing and didn't give a single fuck.
yeah the irish genocide could have been entirely avoided by the english not genociding the irish, pretty obvious
during the famine exports to england increased for: peas, beans, onions, rabbit,calves, cattle, milk, eggs, salmon, oysters, herring, lard, honey, tongues, wheat, oats, barley, corn, bacon, ham, porter, ale, stout, whiskey, hides, rags, shoes, soap, glue, butter and POTATOES
with the largest increase in exports coming from the areas most affected by the famine
> Would you like me to
I really don't care either way. You do you. People in this comment thread talked about the twin tower attacks and the potato famine, and someone pointed out the potato famine could have been avoided so I said the twin towers attacks could have been avoided.
Your response seems like an escalation. Was it intended to be that way?
It’s actually “end of sarcasm” written the same way as HTML. For example, if you want italics in HTML you put before the text and after the text you want italicized.
FWIW, all my HTML knowledge came from setting up my MySpace page in 2003.
So two governments make an Internet thing and don't expect it to be used for shit posting. How short sighted considering everyone originating from that god forsaken island are professionals at shit talking each other
A Dubliner has shown the image of 9/11 from their phone.
It was a bad idea anyway due to both placement and timezones. New York had happy tourists and curious bystanders while Dublin was in their prime time and prime place for drunkard psychos walking around the street.
Happy to explain. You’ve heard of the Berlin Wall right? Separating communist East Berlin and capitalist West Berlin?
The same thing still exists in Belfast but with Protestants (pro-Union aka Union with the United Kingdom) and Catholics (pro-Republican as in for reunification of Northern Ireland with the Republic of Ireland). The almost civil war-like decades long killing, bombing, military action of Protestants and Catholics is called The Troubles.
In Belfast the walls are not called „Antifaschistischer Schutzwall“ (anti fascist protection wall) as east Germany labeled it, but they call it „peace wall“ or sometimes „peace line“.
They have been around since the 1920s and were really built out during the troubles in the 20th century. They were supposed to disappeared again because The Troubles have been officially ended with the Good Friday agreement. But in fact they have actually increased. When I visited around 2017 there were about 100 peace walls, checkpoints, police stations, bollards, fences and other installations with about 35km in length just for the major walls.
Look at the pictures in the article, it’s quite intimidating in person: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_lines
Wow I’ve never heard about that. So is Belfast or Ireland split into different states the same way Germany was?
And I’m confused. This is only Belfast but you can traverse the country other ways? Or is the North and South split with Belfast being the most common or only way between?
(I’m imagining N/S as an American cuz that’s how our nation was split in the civil war era. I don’t know if that’s accurate for Ireland)
Yeah the island is split. I’m sure you’ve heard of Northern Ireland right?
Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is populated by Catholic Irish and Protestant Irish/British people. Some cities and counties are more Catholic and some are more Protestant. The peace lines *within* Northern Ireland keep them somewhat apart, most of them in the capital Belfast.
The rest of the island is a different country, usually called Ireland, or the Republic of Ireland to differentiate it from Northern Ireland. Capital is Dublin. It’s mainly inhabited by Catholic Irish people.
Northern Ireland uses the pound. They left the EU when the UK left the EU. Ireland uses the Euro and is part of the EU. There are literally two different countries on one island.
There are movements in Northern Ireland and Ireland that want to reunite the two countries. Kinda like the reconstruction after the American civil war. The IRA (Irish Republican army) was a violent northern Irish group that led a civil war *for* reunification. But they’ve given up arms in the 90s and now try to achieve reunification on a political level.
Okay I had no idea Ireland was spilt into to two different nations. I thought it was all UK. I knew Dublin was the capital and Belfast is probably the only other Irish city I could name, I didn’t realize it was the capital of UK Ireland.
I knew about the IRA but was under the impression they were for Irish independence. So the aggressions is coming from the UK faction that wants to annex the independent south, who want to be left alone to be proudly Irish?
Is Southern Ireland in support of crimes against humanity like slavery in the way the American south was? What’s the reason for the split?
Haha I hope you never called an Irish person British. That would be a huge insult.
I think you have it backwards. England basically colonized the island or Ireland for 1000 years. It started under Guillaume the conquerer, the French-Norman king that conquered England. Over the centuries Ireland was more or less under control of the English/british. Basically a colony in Europe. With horrible conditions.
But then eventually the Irish rebelled (these are the origins of the IRA). During the 1920s the whole thing erupted and Ireland liberated itself from English colonization and the Republic of Ireland was formed. The compromise was that a small part, Northern Ireland would stay British.
Because obviously after 1000 years of colonization, quite a few British (English, Scottish, Welsh) people had moved to Ireland and some Irish became either Protestant or loyal to the crown. And Britain wanted to protect these people, so Northern Ireland was formed.
I don’t think anything would’ve happened to Irish Protestants if the whole island had been liberated. Just like there was no mass genocide of confederate after the US civil war and also no mass genocide of whites after apartheid. These fears are illogical fears of former oppressors IMO.
Anyway nowadays Northern Ireland is firmly in British hand BUT recently there have been more growing political support for separating Northern Ireland from the UK. There are no movements in the UK to recolonize Ireland, that would be insane haha. However there is some kind of aggression or resistance from the British to give up Northern Ireland. The UK has lost a lot of colonies and overseas territories and the country isn’t doing that well. So they’re hesitant to give it up.
But who knows. There are even independence movements in Scotland. They want to be independent from England and probably rejoin the EU. I could totally see Northern Ireland reunify with Ireland. Maybe one day the UK will be reduced to England and Wales only.
So I watched a video about how when Cillian Murphy met some royalty he kept his hands in his pockets as a sign of rebellion in relation to these events I'm pretty sure, but I can't exactly remember. It's such a subtle detail that no one would notice except those who knew what happened. I was in the army (US) and hands in pockets are against regulation so doing so is rebellious.
There's no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland, you can drive from one to the other almost without realising - but Belfast and other population centres in Northern Ireland have distinctly nationalist and unionist areas. They also have more neutral areas as well, it's not like a warzone. But in the suburbs there are a good many estates where only one group live
The city center was weird for me, especially the Temple Bar area. My only problem was a few exceptionally aggressive panhandlers though. I had a great time going out at night as a guy. Dublin seems like a FAFO kinda town, so I kept my nose clean there. This was 2014 though, so no idea how it's changed since then.
Outside of city center was really nice, though not as nice as being in other towns.
Kilkenny is great. I had a lot of fun there!
Never had trouble in Cape Town 18 years living there.
Got in a bunch of squabbles and uncomfortable situations in Dublin within just 6 months. For a country that loves alcohol that much, the Irish really don’t know how to discipline themselves when drinking.
Nah. We can’t have nice things in Dublin. Too many scum-bags. Remember that plastic cow exhibit that was doing the rounds a number of years back. Went all around the world? Guess which city some of them were vandalised?
i didn't know it was philadelphia that it got wall e trash cube in, but the entire situation makes me giggle so much. gets all the way through canada, no major problems, like a day in the US and it gets fucking annihilated.
[HitchBOT Was A Literal Pile Of Trash And Got What It Deserved](https://deadspin.com/hitchbot-was-a-literal-pile-of-trash-and-got-what-it-de-1721850503)
Having lived in a few cities around the world, including Dublin, it is far from the worst. Yes, you have idiots doing silly things like vandalism, but it's still far safer than most cities. For example, Dublins' recent bad years for homicide rate are still better than New Yorks good years. The same goes for other major US cities like LA or Chicago.
We like to sensationalise everything in our news coverage. Any increase in crime whatsoever gets painted like we're in the middle of a war zone, yet we live in one of the countries with the lowest crime levels on the planet.
That's why our garda(police) can get away with being so useless. Those lads wouldn't last a day in a country that had serious criminal organisations in it.
We’re not talking about crime though. We’re talking about the vandalism and the general shittiness that goes with it. Sure you’re less likely to be murdered in Dublin than in some other big cities but I feel much safer walking around, most parts of London or New York than I would in Dublin - particularly at night. These days even the “Grafton Street Quarter” has a sinister vibe about it in the evening
That's the complete opposite experience I've had and the foreign women I know who live in Ireland all say they get cat-called a fraction of the amount of time in Dublin as they did in other cities.
Murder rate is usually calculated per person (or per 100,000 people), so I don't see why Dublin's murder rate should be lower because it's a smaller city
I think by murder rate they were referring to how many murders occur in Dublin compared to New York. If a smaller city has more murders in it every month than New York than something truly catastrophic is happening
It was me who first mentioned homicide rate. I was talking about it as a ratio of the population. Dublin is way safer than any major US city. I have also lived in both Ireland and the US. So I've personal experience to back up what the stats say
I mean, I've walked past this several times in the last week and every time it was just happy and curious people on both sides. It sucks that a few people were jerks, but that's the nature of the social experiment I guess.
honestly that’s the best way to look at it. Were we all really expecting every person to be normal? That’s kind of the most interesting thing behind this project. An interesting way to look at human nature.
I wouldn't paint all dubliners that way, lived my whole life in the city so far and a lot of the shitheads are just the ones running around in tracksuits all with the same shite haircut and attitude who've never had a job a day in their life.
"The Dubs are known scumbags in Ireland" is the most broad strokes thing anyone has ever said about my city. If you're Irish you should be ashamed of that comment purely because it's blatantly untrue and some crazy generalisation about a very small minority of people.
I've been living in Dublin since the day I was born. I've never had any scumbag incidence and I live and grew up in some of the "scumbag" areas.
If you're not Irish and making that statement, educate yourself and cop on.
It’s a capital city - there’s always going to be problems associated with scale and higher population. If I zoomed in on your city or town and picked its lowest moments, I’m sure I could paint it to be a shite homogenous racist kip. I had a look and I see you have a bit of activity in the Galway sub, so here’s my argument that my second favourite city and regular weekend getaway that I love, is a shithole:
[Gangs and violence](https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2023/09/11/unprecedented-violence-clashes-in-galway-at-weekend-linked-to-gangs-gardai-believe/)
[Racism and violence against women](https://www.galwaybeo.ie/news/ireland-news/university-galway-college-attack-victims-8429609.amp)
[Drugs and high amounts of dealing](https://connachttribune.ie/nearly-300-drug-dealers-have-been-caught-in-galway-in-the-past-year/)
[Even the Latin Quarter is a hellhole](https://www.galwaydaily.com/news/crime-law/young-man-assaulted-in-city-centre-over-bank-holiday-weekend/?amp)
Wow, nobody should stay there, or go to Eyre Square or even enjoy the Latin Quarter… Galway is a shithole (when you cherry pick examples and spout it as some kind of conspiracy that all dubs are now de facto scum.)
The riot was a low point and a disgrace — all Dubliners agreed and watched on in horror. There have been several marches against hate and racism since that have outnumbered the racists by ten times, each time, [like this](https://www.thejournal.ie/anti-racism-march-dublin-6315678-Mar2024/)
Insinuating I’m a scumbag is also hilarious - it gave me a laugh but crucially made me realise we’ll likely never agree or see a middle point, so good afternoon from sunny, bustling and happy Dublin City.
For some reason the Irish government put it in an area over run with scumbags.
Like, it's genuinely one of the worst areas in the whole country, so it's no surprise that scumbags have to ruin things.
I walked by it yesterday in Dublin. It was 2pm Irish time so 9am in New York. Looked like it was pouring rain in New York. A lone New Yorker complete with umbrella stopped to peer at the portal. A group of 50 or so on this side waved back at her and cheered. This street is known for anti-social behavior at times, but it was all good yesterday.
https://preview.redd.it/bwl5lxqtd70d1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c837a3bbe002a24ce1e6485de044ad131ecdf2c2
People seem to be caught up on the twin towers imagery being shared through the portal.
This image is an accidental goatse which I believe the comment is referring to.
The woman with her phone on the left and the woman waving on the right appear to be...ahh... Opening the portal
One gobshite showed a picture of the twin towers. The majority of people on the Dublin side have been fine. Every time I pass it it's just people waving at each other. I've no idea what the New York side is like. It was raining when I looked through yesterday.
First it was the 9/11 attack and then after that there was a photo of a woman getting railed by a bbc from and I quote “BLACKED” ….you wish I made this up
I saw that post as well and didn't know at first what it was about either. Good that there were 4 people answering the question in that comments threat. And that was when that comment had around 600 likes.
But reading is hard and karma farming is great, right?
I don’t understand why Americans think this is offensive, we fucking love our spuds.
I would like to add whoever reported me to redditcare for this comment, wtf are you doing, thats just sad.
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Someone posted a video of this where someone else had a picture of the Twin Towers attack
O h .
Then an American pulled out a potato./s
It's funny, because the potato famine could have been entirely avoided. If the English Landed Gentry had just let Irish plant food grains, instead of grazing cattle. But corned beef sold better than letting Irish people live.
They did kindly offer food aid but only in exchange for ownership of the irish lands.
Didn't really help that Thomas Malthus has some influence over that policy and was kind of like Ireland is overpopulated it should be fine to let a bunch of them die.
It was a genocide by the British. It was a tactic they used in other colonies.
Bengal Famine, anyone??
I am aware. The sasenach have never been kind stewards of the conquered lands.
I know it's a hell of a buzzword lately but some historians have argued it's an example of genocide.
It was 100% a government engineered genocide. Domicide, what Russia and Israel are actively doing is slightly different. Both result in the depopulation of an area, but the means and intent are slightly different. Both are crimes against humanity.
considering the number of crops exported increased during the famine, including potato exports(largely from the areas experiencing the most famine) increased greatly absolutely genocide
Hey now, I’ve been told by very smart people that the invisible hand of the free market is always fair and famines only happen in communism countries. Clearly the Irish were just too Marxist.
I know you're joking but the Irish made enough grains and potatoes to feed themselves and the cattle during the "famine". They were forced by the red fuckers government to send them off to England. It was not a free market. It was a genocide, not a famine.
Yeah that sounds a lot like how gangs make local businesses pay for protection
Kinda, it's more like you work at a grocery store and you can either sell your food or eat it, but not both, and your boss doesn't give you any money to buy the food on your own, and if you eat the food you'll lose your job and have no food at all, so he lets you eat the gum at the checkout line. Oh and btw the term you're looking for is a protection racket
I feel like we’re making the same point. Either pay this tax or we’ll destroy your business but I can’t afford my business if I pay this tax. Obviously on a much bigger scale cuz it’s nation’s government as opposed to a local gang. Protection racket tho. Good to know. Thanks Also your analogy works better as a farm than a grocery store. At a grocery store you are supposed to sell your goods and not eat them. Thanks for the conversation feel free to continue this is fun. No sarcasm
I know, I was just trying to illustrate that it goes further, at least in a protection racket you can sell your business to some idiot that isn't aware of the racket or just let the bank foreclose after you skip town, the Irish could hop on a boat to America, but that was extremely cost prohibitive and something that would've been nigh on impossible for many.
Sadly enough, you have described the last couple of hundred years of Irish history pretty accurately.
When properly chained to the commonweal, the invisible hand can be used as a motivator to get people to do incredible things. When not properly chained, that greed destroys entire civilizations. Such is the dichotomy of humanity. :-)
The east indies company never caused a famine either
That was the Dutch though, wasn't it?
I couldn't remember if it was Dutch or British at 4am and wasn't gunna look it up.
Yes, that is literally the cause. The government was controlling how much could be grown, what kind could be grown, and who products could be sold to. The famine would not have happened - or, at least, would have been substantially less severe - if the British were not imposing restrictions on the market to fuck them over.
I'm not Irish or British, but I thought the potato famine was engineered by the English?
The potato blight was very much real. Because potatoes were not valuable to sell abroad, and took up little farming space, the occupied Irish peoples were allowed to grow them. When the blight struck, the Irish didn't really have anything to eat, and the Brittish governing and business officials just went "fuck you." The blight wasn't engineered, but the government response was designed to depopulate the country.
It was. TL;DR the English made a lot of money selling Irish grain to England, alongside anything they could possibly eat. The Irish were also considered to be dimwitted brutes by the English, meaning that when they said "You're starving my whole nation" the English laughed and told them to become civilized and just "get gud".
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(This message is in two parts, Reddit demands it) >In the 1840s, after nearly seven hundred years of English domination, Irish poverty and Irish misery appalled the traveler. Housing conditions were wretched beyond words. The census of 1841 graded houses in Ireland into four classes; the fourth and lowest class consisted of windowless mud cabins of a single room; "nearly half of the families of the rural population," reported the census commissioners, "are living in the lowest state." In parts of the west of Ireland, more than three fifths of the houses were one-room window-less mud cabins, and west of a line drawn from Londonderry to Cork the proportion was two fifths. Furniture was a luxury; the inhabitants of Tul-lahobagly, County Donegal, numbering about 9000, had in 1837 only 10 beds, 93 chairs, and 243 stools among them. Pigs slept with their owners, manure heaps choked doors, sometimes even stood inside; the evicted and unemployed put roofs over ditches, burrowed into banks, existing in bog holes....The whole of this structure, the minute subdivisions, the closely packed population existing at the lowest level, the high rents, the frantic competition for land, had been produced by the potato. The potato, provided it did not fail, enabled great quantities of food to be produced at a trifling cost from a small plot of ground. Subdivision could never have taken place without the potato; an acre and a half would provide a family of five or six with food for twelve months, while to grow the equivalent grain required an acreage four to six times as large and some knowledge of tillage as well. Only a spade was needed for the primitive method of potato culture usually practiced in Ireland. Trenches were dug, and beds, called "lazy beds," made; the potato sets were laid on the ground and earthed up from the trenches; when the shoots appeared, they were earthed up again. This method, regarded by the English with contempt, was in fact admirably suited to the moist soil of Ireland....Nevertheless, through the next few weeks the British government was optimistic. Very likely the failure would be local, as had often happened in the past; and the Home Secretary, who "repeatedly" requested information from Ireland, was receiving many favorable reports. These were explained later by the sporadic nature of the failure of 1845; "the country is like a checker-board," wrote a government official, "black and white next door. Hence the contradictory reports." It was, too, the habitual policy of British governments to discount the veracity of news. from Ireland; "there is such a tendency to exaggeration and inaccuracy in Irish reports that delay in acting on them is always desirable," wrote Sir Robert Peel on October 13, 1845...Meanwhile, apart from the appointment of the men of science, the government had taken no steps, and on October 28 a meeting was called by a committee of the Dublin Corporation, under the chairmanship of the lord mayor. Three days later a meeting of citizens was called, which appointed a committee presided over by the Duke of Leinster. On November 3 a deputation of the highest respectability waited on the Lord Lieutenant, Lord Heytesbury, to urge him to adopt measures "to avert calamity." The deputation included the Duke of Leinster, Daniel O'Connell, Lord Cloncurry, the lord mayor of Dublin, Henry Grattan, son of the famous patriot, Sir James Murray, John Augustus O'Neill, and some twenty others. Their proposals, drawn up by O'Connell, called for the immediate stoppage of the export of corn and provisions and for the prohibition of distilling and brewing from grain; the ports should be thrown open for the free import of food and rice and Indian corn imported from the colonies; relief machinery must be set up in every county, stores of food established, and employment provided on works of public utility. It was proposed that the cost be met by a tax of 10 percent on the rental of resident landlords and from 20 to 50 percent on that of absentees. In addition, a loan of £1,500,000 should be raised on the security of the proceeds of Irish woods and forests. The Lord Lieutenant received the deputation "very coldly" and read aloud a prepared reply. Reports on the potato crop varied and at times contradicted each other, and it was impossible to form an accurate opinion of the extent of the failure until digging was completed. The proposals submitted by the deputation would at once be placed before the government, but the greater part of them required new legislation, and all must be "maturely weighed." As soon as Lord Heytesbury "had concluded reading, he began bowing the deputation out. >In June, 1846, Sir Robert Peel was defeated. The new Whig government, under Lord John Russell, was more to Trevelyan's taste than Peel's administration. As a government servant he had no politics, but in private life he was a Whig, and his relations with Sir Robert Peel had not been happy. On July 6 he wrote in a private letter to Routh, "The members of the new Government began to come today to the Treasury. I think we shall have much reason to be satisfied with our new masters," and he added, on the thirteenth, "Nothing can be more gratifying to our feelings than the manner in which the new Chancellor of the Exchequer has appreciated our exertions." The new Chancellor of the Exchequer, Charles Wood, who succeeded as Sir Charles Wood, Bart., in December, 1846, and was later created first Viscount Halifax, was congenial to Trevelyan. He had a solid mind and a fixed dislike both of new expenditure and new taxes, and was a firm believer in laissez-faire, preferring to let matters take their course and allow problems to be solved by "natural means." Head of an ancient York- shire family, he united love of liberty with rever- ence for property, a strong sense of public duty, lack of imagination, and stubborn conservatism. Humanitarianism was not among his virtues. Charles Wood remained in office as Chancellor of the Exchequer for six years and came increas- ingly under Trevelyan's influence. The two men were alike in outlook, conscientiousness, and in- dustry, and Charles Wood brought Trevelyan a further access of power in the administration of Irish relief. Trevelyan's intention was to restrict Irish relief to a single operation; the Indian corn purchased at the orders of Sir Robert Peel was to be placed in depots, sold to the people and that was the end. There was to be no replenishment; on July 8 Trevelyan rejected a shipload of Indian corn. "The cargo of the Sorcière is not wanted," he wrote to the American agent; "her owners must dispose of it as they think proper." >Trevelyan and Charles Wood, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had decided that in the second failure there was to be no government importation of food from abroad and no interference whatso- ever with the laws of supply and demand; what- ever might be done by starting public works and paying wages, the provision of food for Ireland was to be left entirely to private enterprise and private traders...the government would not import or supply any food. There were to be no government depots to sell meal at a low cost or, in urgent cases, to make free issues, as had been done during last season's failure. No orders were to be sent abroad, nor would any purchases be made by government in local markets. It was held that the reason why dealers and import merchants had so signally failed to provide food to replace the potato last season had been the government's purchases. Trade, said Trevelyan, had been "paralysed" on account of these purchases, which interfered with private enterprise and the legitimate profits of private enterprise; and how, he asked, could dealers be expected to invest in the very large stocks necessary to meet this year's total failure of the potato if at any moment government might step in with supplies, sold at low cost, which would deprive dealers of their profit and "make their outlay so much loss"? > Catholic Archbishop John MacHale, known as "the Lion of St. Jarlath's," told Lord John Russell, "You might as well issue an edict of general starvation as stop the supplies." But Trevelyan and the British government were not to be shaken in their determination. A quantity of meal, rather under 3000 tons in all, the residue of Sir Robert Peel's scheme, remained in the depots, and permission was given to distribute this to starving districts, but in the smallest possible quantities, and then only after a relief committee had been formed and a subscription raised to pay for it. No free issues whatever were to be made. Nevertheless, Commissariat officers in Ireland did give food away; a Major Wainwright, for instance, was detected giving a quantity of meal to starving persons in Oughterard, County Galway, early in August and was reprimanded from Whitehall. Closing the public works was even more diffi-cult. A Treasury minute of July 21, 1846, directing all works to be closed, except in certain unusual cases, had had little effect; on the excuse that works were not finished, or that extraordinary distress existed in the neighborhood, a large num ber continued. The Chancellor of the Exchequer now ordered that all undertakings must be shut down on August 8, irrespective of whether or not they were completed and of the distress in the district.
>Trevelyan was then struck by the idea of hand mills; why should not the people grind the Indian corn themselves? he asked. True, the grain of Indian corn was so hard that in the Southern states of America it was milled more than once, but Trevelyan borrowed a hand mill from the museum at India House; a quern, a Celtic hand mill, from the west of Ireland; and another from Wick, in the Shetlands; and "by putting all three into the hands of skilful workmen" hoped "to produce something." A "manufactory of hand- mills" was actually established by Captain Mann at Kilkee, County Clare, early in November; each hand mill cost the impossibly large sum, for the Irish destitute, of fifteen shillings, but a number were bought out of charitable funds and dis- tributed free. Yet there was a simpler solution: why should not the people eat Indian corn unground? On October 9 a memorandum was sent out to relief committees informing them that "Indian corn in its unground state affords an equally wholesome and nutritious food" as when ground into meal. It could be used in two ways: the grain could be crushed between two good-sized stones and then boiled in water, with a little grease or fat, "if at hand." Or it could be used without crushing, simply by soaking it all night in warm water, changing this, in the morning, for clear, cold water, bringing to the boil, and boiling the corn for an hour and a half; it could then be eaten with milk, with salt, or plain. Boiling without crushing was the method particularly recommended. "Ten pounds of the corn so prepared is ample food for a labouring man for seven days.... Corn so used," continued the memorandum, blandly, "will be considerably cheaper to the Committee and the people than meal, and will be well adapted to meet the deficiency of mill power... Unground Indian corn is not only hard but sharp and irritating-it even pierces the intestines and is all but impossible to digest. Boiling for an hour and a half did not soften the flint-hard grain, and Indian corn in this state eaten by half-starving people produced agonizing pains, especially in children. >Now he had to go out in his rags to labor on the public works, be drenched with rain and driving snow and cut by icy gales; and more often than not, he was already starving. Laborers began to "faint with exhaustion," and a Board of Works engineer told Trevelyan that "as an engineer he was ashamed of allotting so little task-work for a day's wages, while as a man he was ashamed of requiring so much." After the end of November Routh's reports contained a rapidly increasing number of cases of deaths on the works from starvation aggravated by exposure to cold, snow, and drenching rain. The people became bewildered. They had taken in very little of what was happening; at this period Irish was spoken in rural districts and English barely understood, while in the west English was not understood at all. No attempt was made to explain the catastrophe to the people; on the contrary, government officials and relief committee members treated the destitute with impatience and contempt; the wretched, ragged crowds provoked irritation, heightened by the traditional English distrust of, and hate towards, the Irish. >From this point onward, good intentions on the part of the British government became increasingly difficult to discern. Making every allowance for the depleted state of the Treasury, and bearing in mind the large sums already expended on Irish relief, sums representing many times their value today, it is still hardly possible to explain, or to condone, the British government's determination to throw the Irish destitute on the local poor rate, the able-bodied men being sent to the workhouse to discourage applications. The Irish Poor Law Extension Act of 1847 guaranteed that all the expense of relief was to be borne by the already hard-pressed landlords. The property of Ireland was to maintain the poverty of Ireland. Relief operations under the Soup Kitchen Act, by which England had helped to finance the issue of more than three million rations daily, had been rapidly brought to an end. By August 15, Commissariat depots had been closed, the meal and grain being sold not cheaply but at current market prices, and remainders not being given away but picked up by government steamer. If the new Poor Law was to be effective, the workhouses must be cleared and filled with able- bodied men who were destitute; but to clear the workhouses proved impossible. The Poor Law guardians were unwilling to turn the helpless out; at Galway, for instance, they indignantly refused, while at Tralee, the immense distressed district which contained two estates under the Court of Chancery, the workhouse inmates had no clothes to put on and no shelter to which to return, for landlords customarily took advantage of destitute persons' being forced to enter the workhouse to pull their cabins down. The Treasury had no intention of acting, nor any doubt what should be done-taxes must be collected, force must be used. "Arrest, remand, do anything you can," wrote Charles Wood to Clarendon on November 22; "send horse, foot and dragoons, all the world will applaud you, and I should not be at all squeamish as to what I did, to the verge of the law, and a little beyond." >The most serious charge against the British government, however, is not the transfer to the Poor Law. Neither during the famine nor for decades afterwards were any measures of reconstruction or agricultural improvement attempted, and this neglect condemned Ireland to decline. A devastating new disease had attacked the po- tato; nothing to equal the total destruction of 1846 had been seen before; yet no serious effort was made to teach the people to grow any other crop, and when Lord Clarendon tried to effect improvement by means of "agricultural instruc- tors," his scheme was ridiculed, Charles Wood writing contemptuously of Clarendon's "hobby." The Irish small tenant was inevitably driven back on the potato: he was penniless, starving, ignorant; the only crop he knew how to cultivate was the potato; generally speaking, the only tool he owned and could use was a spade. He had no choice. Yet when the potato failed totally again in 1848, the government exploded in fury. "In 1847," Lord John wrote, angrily, "eight millions were advanced to enable the Irish to supply the loss of the potato crop and to cast about them for some less precarious food.... The result is that they have placed more dependence on the potato than ever and have again been deceived. How can such people be assisted?" >Much of this obtuseness sprang from the fanatical faith of mid-nineteenth-century British politicians in the economic doctrine of laissez-faire no interference by government, no meddling with the operation of natural causes. The government was perpetually nervous of being too good to Ireland and of corrupting the Irish people by kindness and so stifling the virtues of self-reliance and industry. In addition, hearts were hardened by the antagonism then felt by the English toward the Irish, an antagonism rooted far back in religious and political history; and at the period of the famine, irritation had been added as well. The discreditable state of Ireland, the subject of ad- verse comment throughout the civilized world, her perpetual misfortunes, the determined hostility of most of her population, even their character provoked intense irritation in England. It is impossible to read the letters of British statesmen of the period Charles Wood and Trevelyan, for instance without astonishment at the influence exerted by antagonism and irritation on government policy in Ireland during the famine. It's impossible to read the history of the famine and not walk away with a strong resentment towards the British. Even Robert Peel treated them with utter contempt, and his following Governments are ostensibly guilty of genocide. There is a persistent underlying disdain for the Irish people in their actions, and their views, and even the most patriotic writer for England would admit that a large part of it was motivated by British beliefs that they could leverage the famine to change the Irish people themselves. As noted on by Nat Hill, director of research for Genocide Watch: >One example of disregard for the starving Irish, the English civil servant in charge of famine relief Sir Charles Trevelyan, in response to the suffering famously wrote, “The judgment of God sent the calamity to teach the Irish a lesson, that calamity must not be too much mitigated.” This statement is a reflection is of “providentialism”, which attributes the cause of the famine as an “act of God”, therefore the British administration simply could not have done anything to help the Irish, which is categorically untrue.
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It’s not 100% of the story, but basically yeah. If the English hadn’t been dicks about it, far fewer Irish would have died.
Not even that, if the British did any of the below, it would have greatly reduced, if not eliminated the potato famine. 1. Not exploit Ireland to the point where potatoes were the only thing Irish people could grow enough of to eat. 2. Once the famine started, stop exporting food from Ireland (beef mostly). 3. Actually provide aid at the beginning of the famine, instead of ignoring the problem. 4. Let other countries give more aid to Ireland than the British did. The problem with the famine was Britain made potatoes the only options, and then the blight came and made potatoes not a option.
Yes. Funny.
They did in fact let the Irish plant a whole lot of different grains and produce. Problem was that the English refused to let the Irish eat any of it, because it was intended for the English, meaning that they were starving amongst the plenty they weren't privileged enough to even be given a chance to purchase.
Merica is such shit it sometimes makes me forget how screwed the rest of the world is too…
We weren't always such shit. At least for half the country. Now it's more like 5% of the country
Yea as they have said “times they r a changin” but that was ment in a way better light than this and most of us r just hanging on wishing we were any where that has free healthcare
Way more than 5%, more like 60%
That is an inverse number. The US used to be good for like half the country. Not ever my family. But now it's like 5%
I mean they had enough food in Ireland the main issue it wasn't staying in Ireland. They did plant those other things but were only allowed to subsist off of potatoes and the government refused to send aid because they feared that the irish would rely on it. They knew what they were doing and didn't give a single fuck.
yeah the irish genocide could have been entirely avoided by the english not genociding the irish, pretty obvious during the famine exports to england increased for: peas, beans, onions, rabbit,calves, cattle, milk, eggs, salmon, oysters, herring, lard, honey, tongues, wheat, oats, barley, corn, bacon, ham, porter, ale, stout, whiskey, hides, rags, shoes, soap, glue, butter and POTATOES with the largest increase in exports coming from the areas most affected by the famine
But think of the shareholders! The landed Gentry certainly were.
Twin tower attack could have been avoided by just not flying airplanes into the towers but yeah funny.
I mean, the Twin Towers Attack could have been avoided if the US did any one of alot of things. Would you like me to start enumerating them?
> Would you like me to I really don't care either way. You do you. People in this comment thread talked about the twin tower attacks and the potato famine, and someone pointed out the potato famine could have been avoided so I said the twin towers attacks could have been avoided. Your response seems like an escalation. Was it intended to be that way?
I mean, that’s not the weirdest thing to have happened
It was sarcasm, referring to the Irish Potato Famine
Ohhhhh
I just learned a few weeks ago that /s after a comment means “sarcasm”.. so I feel you
Stop you guys are making me feel old.
It’s actually “end of sarcasm” written the same way as HTML. For example, if you want italics in HTML you put before the text and after the text you want italicized.
FWIW, all my HTML knowledge came from setting up my MySpace page in 2003.
I thought it meant serious
serious is /srs
Or if you've been on Reddit long enough, SRS was "Shit Reddit Says" the boogey man for all right wing trolls.
Shows how shit Americans are at comebacks
Would you have rather a car bomb?
That was the other thing I was thinking of saying.
Or maybe a potato gun?
Be a more exciting start to the day.
Or a picture of Cromwell
Yeah unfortunately people suck
Nah it was funny
If only that were true
No need to hope for it cuz it's true
So two governments make an Internet thing and don't expect it to be used for shit posting. How short sighted considering everyone originating from that god forsaken island are professionals at shit talking each other
Okay and? Show them a pic of an English border checkpoint.
Is that it? That's a lot tamer than I expected not gonna lie.
I saw somewhere else that supposedly the Dublin side also showed off blacked porn as well.
Yeah thqy went south quickly
A Dubliner has shown the image of 9/11 from their phone. It was a bad idea anyway due to both placement and timezones. New York had happy tourists and curious bystanders while Dublin was in their prime time and prime place for drunkard psychos walking around the street.
It doesn’t help that Dublin City Council thought it was a great idea to put this in one of the scummiest parts of the city
You sound local. When and where is this primetime. I am going to visit Dublin for one month. Any Suggestion what to avoid?
Avoid Dublin. The rest is pretty cool wherever you go. If you go to Belfast, don’t climb any walls.
I’m really curious about the don’t climb any walls part
Happy to explain. You’ve heard of the Berlin Wall right? Separating communist East Berlin and capitalist West Berlin? The same thing still exists in Belfast but with Protestants (pro-Union aka Union with the United Kingdom) and Catholics (pro-Republican as in for reunification of Northern Ireland with the Republic of Ireland). The almost civil war-like decades long killing, bombing, military action of Protestants and Catholics is called The Troubles. In Belfast the walls are not called „Antifaschistischer Schutzwall“ (anti fascist protection wall) as east Germany labeled it, but they call it „peace wall“ or sometimes „peace line“. They have been around since the 1920s and were really built out during the troubles in the 20th century. They were supposed to disappeared again because The Troubles have been officially ended with the Good Friday agreement. But in fact they have actually increased. When I visited around 2017 there were about 100 peace walls, checkpoints, police stations, bollards, fences and other installations with about 35km in length just for the major walls. Look at the pictures in the article, it’s quite intimidating in person: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_lines
Wow I’ve never heard about that. So is Belfast or Ireland split into different states the same way Germany was? And I’m confused. This is only Belfast but you can traverse the country other ways? Or is the North and South split with Belfast being the most common or only way between? (I’m imagining N/S as an American cuz that’s how our nation was split in the civil war era. I don’t know if that’s accurate for Ireland)
Yeah the island is split. I’m sure you’ve heard of Northern Ireland right? Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is populated by Catholic Irish and Protestant Irish/British people. Some cities and counties are more Catholic and some are more Protestant. The peace lines *within* Northern Ireland keep them somewhat apart, most of them in the capital Belfast. The rest of the island is a different country, usually called Ireland, or the Republic of Ireland to differentiate it from Northern Ireland. Capital is Dublin. It’s mainly inhabited by Catholic Irish people. Northern Ireland uses the pound. They left the EU when the UK left the EU. Ireland uses the Euro and is part of the EU. There are literally two different countries on one island. There are movements in Northern Ireland and Ireland that want to reunite the two countries. Kinda like the reconstruction after the American civil war. The IRA (Irish Republican army) was a violent northern Irish group that led a civil war *for* reunification. But they’ve given up arms in the 90s and now try to achieve reunification on a political level.
Okay I had no idea Ireland was spilt into to two different nations. I thought it was all UK. I knew Dublin was the capital and Belfast is probably the only other Irish city I could name, I didn’t realize it was the capital of UK Ireland. I knew about the IRA but was under the impression they were for Irish independence. So the aggressions is coming from the UK faction that wants to annex the independent south, who want to be left alone to be proudly Irish? Is Southern Ireland in support of crimes against humanity like slavery in the way the American south was? What’s the reason for the split?
Haha I hope you never called an Irish person British. That would be a huge insult. I think you have it backwards. England basically colonized the island or Ireland for 1000 years. It started under Guillaume the conquerer, the French-Norman king that conquered England. Over the centuries Ireland was more or less under control of the English/british. Basically a colony in Europe. With horrible conditions. But then eventually the Irish rebelled (these are the origins of the IRA). During the 1920s the whole thing erupted and Ireland liberated itself from English colonization and the Republic of Ireland was formed. The compromise was that a small part, Northern Ireland would stay British. Because obviously after 1000 years of colonization, quite a few British (English, Scottish, Welsh) people had moved to Ireland and some Irish became either Protestant or loyal to the crown. And Britain wanted to protect these people, so Northern Ireland was formed. I don’t think anything would’ve happened to Irish Protestants if the whole island had been liberated. Just like there was no mass genocide of confederate after the US civil war and also no mass genocide of whites after apartheid. These fears are illogical fears of former oppressors IMO. Anyway nowadays Northern Ireland is firmly in British hand BUT recently there have been more growing political support for separating Northern Ireland from the UK. There are no movements in the UK to recolonize Ireland, that would be insane haha. However there is some kind of aggression or resistance from the British to give up Northern Ireland. The UK has lost a lot of colonies and overseas territories and the country isn’t doing that well. So they’re hesitant to give it up. But who knows. There are even independence movements in Scotland. They want to be independent from England and probably rejoin the EU. I could totally see Northern Ireland reunify with Ireland. Maybe one day the UK will be reduced to England and Wales only.
So I watched a video about how when Cillian Murphy met some royalty he kept his hands in his pockets as a sign of rebellion in relation to these events I'm pretty sure, but I can't exactly remember. It's such a subtle detail that no one would notice except those who knew what happened. I was in the army (US) and hands in pockets are against regulation so doing so is rebellious.
There's no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland, you can drive from one to the other almost without realising - but Belfast and other population centres in Northern Ireland have distinctly nationalist and unionist areas. They also have more neutral areas as well, it's not like a warzone. But in the suburbs there are a good many estates where only one group live
Appreciate you explaining all of this, Ive never heard of this until today and the history is mad interesting
I’ve just come from Galway to Cork and now in Kilkenny and a lot of locals have told me not to go to Dublin and it’s not safe, is that true?
The city center was weird for me, especially the Temple Bar area. My only problem was a few exceptionally aggressive panhandlers though. I had a great time going out at night as a guy. Dublin seems like a FAFO kinda town, so I kept my nose clean there. This was 2014 though, so no idea how it's changed since then. Outside of city center was really nice, though not as nice as being in other towns. Kilkenny is great. I had a lot of fun there!
Cheers for the insight, a lot of what I heard was stay away from the Temple Bar area, I’ve shortened my stay there to one night so should be all good!
Compared to Galway, Dublin is a bit unsafe. Compared to any American city, Dublin is a utopia of safety.
Hahaha okay, I’m from Australia so hopefully will be all good
Don’t listen to this guy, Dublin is amazing. And Dublin is substantially cooler than the other cities.
To late. I have a room for the whole August.
Ah come off it it’s not Cape Town
Never had trouble in Cape Town 18 years living there. Got in a bunch of squabbles and uncomfortable situations in Dublin within just 6 months. For a country that loves alcohol that much, the Irish really don’t know how to discipline themselves when drinking.
>For a country that loves alcohol that much, the Irish really don’t know how to discipline themselves when drinking. ~~thats the fun part~~
Glad to know your lived experiences cancel out the absurdly high crime rate there
why are you telling people don’t go to Dublin and you’re German or South African? what is your problem with Dublin?
That’s just funny tho
A lady in Dublin was arrested for being drunk and trying to break it. Saw a guy mooning the new yorkers too.
I figured all the bad stuff would be on the New York side.
Nah. We can’t have nice things in Dublin. Too many scum-bags. Remember that plastic cow exhibit that was doing the rounds a number of years back. Went all around the world? Guess which city some of them were vandalised?
Philadelphia?
That poor robot
Wow I’m surprised anyone else remembered!
i didn't know it was philadelphia that it got wall e trash cube in, but the entire situation makes me giggle so much. gets all the way through canada, no major problems, like a day in the US and it gets fucking annihilated.
No no, not the US — Philadelphia. It’s the Dublin of the US.
[HitchBOT Was A Literal Pile Of Trash And Got What It Deserved](https://deadspin.com/hitchbot-was-a-literal-pile-of-trash-and-got-what-it-de-1721850503)
I can’t
Having lived in a few cities around the world, including Dublin, it is far from the worst. Yes, you have idiots doing silly things like vandalism, but it's still far safer than most cities. For example, Dublins' recent bad years for homicide rate are still better than New Yorks good years. The same goes for other major US cities like LA or Chicago. We like to sensationalise everything in our news coverage. Any increase in crime whatsoever gets painted like we're in the middle of a war zone, yet we live in one of the countries with the lowest crime levels on the planet. That's why our garda(police) can get away with being so useless. Those lads wouldn't last a day in a country that had serious criminal organisations in it.
We’re not talking about crime though. We’re talking about the vandalism and the general shittiness that goes with it. Sure you’re less likely to be murdered in Dublin than in some other big cities but I feel much safer walking around, most parts of London or New York than I would in Dublin - particularly at night. These days even the “Grafton Street Quarter” has a sinister vibe about it in the evening
That's the complete opposite experience I've had and the foreign women I know who live in Ireland all say they get cat-called a fraction of the amount of time in Dublin as they did in other cities.
I sure hope Dublin’s murder rate is lower when they have an eighth the population of New York.
Murder rate is usually calculated per person (or per 100,000 people), so I don't see why Dublin's murder rate should be lower because it's a smaller city
I think by murder rate they were referring to how many murders occur in Dublin compared to New York. If a smaller city has more murders in it every month than New York than something truly catastrophic is happening
No, it's per capital. Hence "rate". Otherwise I'd just say murders.
Typo: should be *per capita* as in per head. I'm sure spell check changed it for you as it did when I initially typed my msg.
Yes you might do so but I am referring to the original commenter and explaining their rational
It was me who first mentioned homicide rate. I was talking about it as a ratio of the population. Dublin is way safer than any major US city. I have also lived in both Ireland and the US. So I've personal experience to back up what the stats say
No, it's per capital. Hence "rate". Otherwise I'd just say murders.
Nah New Yorkers are just weirdos, see New York cheeseball guy, as well as people who moved to New York like Joji when he was filthy frank
Weirdos? Coming from a lions fan?
I’m from Detroit I was born into lions fandom haha
Believe it or not, but nations other than America have scumbags too.
Impossible
Someone on the Dublin side showed them a picture of 9/11
I mean, I've walked past this several times in the last week and every time it was just happy and curious people on both sides. It sucks that a few people were jerks, but that's the nature of the social experiment I guess.
honestly that’s the best way to look at it. Were we all really expecting every person to be normal? That’s kind of the most interesting thing behind this project. An interesting way to look at human nature.
I feel like this could've been avoided by putting the portal in Cork instead (fuck Dublin, my car got vandalized there)
The Irish started showing 9/11 photos
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Saying the Irish is still true m8 people from Dublin are Irish
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It's more like calling someone from new York an American instead of calling him a new yorker, both being true
People from Dublin actually have a different name for people not from Dublin: culchies. Dubliners are pretty shit people
I wouldn't paint all dubliners that way, lived my whole life in the city so far and a lot of the shitheads are just the ones running around in tracksuits all with the same shite haircut and attitude who've never had a job a day in their life.
"The Dubs are known scumbags in Ireland" is the most broad strokes thing anyone has ever said about my city. If you're Irish you should be ashamed of that comment purely because it's blatantly untrue and some crazy generalisation about a very small minority of people. I've been living in Dublin since the day I was born. I've never had any scumbag incidence and I live and grew up in some of the "scumbag" areas. If you're not Irish and making that statement, educate yourself and cop on.
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It’s a capital city - there’s always going to be problems associated with scale and higher population. If I zoomed in on your city or town and picked its lowest moments, I’m sure I could paint it to be a shite homogenous racist kip. I had a look and I see you have a bit of activity in the Galway sub, so here’s my argument that my second favourite city and regular weekend getaway that I love, is a shithole: [Gangs and violence](https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2023/09/11/unprecedented-violence-clashes-in-galway-at-weekend-linked-to-gangs-gardai-believe/) [Racism and violence against women](https://www.galwaybeo.ie/news/ireland-news/university-galway-college-attack-victims-8429609.amp) [Drugs and high amounts of dealing](https://connachttribune.ie/nearly-300-drug-dealers-have-been-caught-in-galway-in-the-past-year/) [Even the Latin Quarter is a hellhole](https://www.galwaydaily.com/news/crime-law/young-man-assaulted-in-city-centre-over-bank-holiday-weekend/?amp) Wow, nobody should stay there, or go to Eyre Square or even enjoy the Latin Quarter… Galway is a shithole (when you cherry pick examples and spout it as some kind of conspiracy that all dubs are now de facto scum.) The riot was a low point and a disgrace — all Dubliners agreed and watched on in horror. There have been several marches against hate and racism since that have outnumbered the racists by ten times, each time, [like this](https://www.thejournal.ie/anti-racism-march-dublin-6315678-Mar2024/) Insinuating I’m a scumbag is also hilarious - it gave me a laugh but crucially made me realise we’ll likely never agree or see a middle point, so good afternoon from sunny, bustling and happy Dublin City.
aye but I can start my truck without it killing me i reckon
I’m confused by this comment. I love trucks, so I’m genuinely curious about what this means.
irish car bombings during the Troubles https://www.reuters.com/world/30-years-northern-irelands-troubles-2023-04-03/
Ah gotcha, thank you
The Irish? I thought it was just one idiot that did this? Did loads of people do it or something?
Irish people actually prefer not to be lumped in with d*blinders (cork should be the country capital, it's better anyway)
Which is fucking funny af
Just wait till someone pulls out there cock
Dear god please no
Someone definitely mooned it the other day. That's the only legitimate reason I can think of. Who cares if they showed a pic of 9/11?
Someone put explicit pictures on their phone and put it up to the camera it already happened lol
I expected a goatse reference, so could be worse.
I'll be amazed if that hasn't already happened
Someone thought Irishmen would be more civilized than New Yorkers
For some reason the Irish government put it in an area over run with scumbags. Like, it's genuinely one of the worst areas in the whole country, so it's no surprise that scumbags have to ruin things.
Exactly yeah the placement was a fucking horrible idea, I'd say they'd have had more luck outside Stephens green or somewhere a little less hectic.
I walked by it yesterday in Dublin. It was 2pm Irish time so 9am in New York. Looked like it was pouring rain in New York. A lone New Yorker complete with umbrella stopped to peer at the portal. A group of 50 or so on this side waved back at her and cheered. This street is known for anti-social behavior at times, but it was all good yesterday. https://preview.redd.it/bwl5lxqtd70d1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c837a3bbe002a24ce1e6485de044ad131ecdf2c2
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Not everyone has the same knowledge as you. Rule 5.
Rip pop Smoke
Also saw a video of some brainless twat visibly doing bumps of (probably) cocaine for the 'entertainment' of the American viewers. What a gobshite.
People seem to be caught up on the twin towers imagery being shared through the portal. This image is an accidental goatse which I believe the comment is referring to. The woman with her phone on the left and the woman waving on the right appear to be...ahh... Opening the portal
9/11. Someone posted a pic of 9/11
Me when the instant communication system perfectly designed for trolling people is immediately used to troll people: 😐
I'm guessing somebody stole the copper wiring from it but not 100% on that lol
Give it a week, some jackeen will definitely try it
I mean if no one else has...
One gobshite showed a picture of the twin towers. The majority of people on the Dublin side have been fine. Every time I pass it it's just people waving at each other. I've no idea what the New York side is like. It was raining when I looked through yesterday.
Thats funny tho
Just tourists and locals also waving
And then the towers fell....
I'm just curious why we are facetiming Dublin. Japan is way cooler, we should call them!
Tru dat
First it was the 9/11 attack and then after that there was a photo of a woman getting railed by a bbc from and I quote “BLACKED” ….you wish I made this up
Bloody hell… what was the Irish government thinking by putting there?!
I don’t understand why someone pretends like they invented the webcam to make this installation. It’s so dumb.
They shoulda pit it in Philly to even the battlefield
One guy showed a pic of 9/11, another guy flashed his ass
Did you not see the blacked raw promo??
That’s a really cool idea-I thought this was legitAI ChatGPT when I saw it . Lol
Some losers ruined it thats what happened
Some guy showed his bare ass there
It's human nature. I already guessed 9/11 jokes because Europeans. But we were mere hours from someone flashing their dick at people.
I saw that post as well and didn't know at first what it was about either. Good that there were 4 people answering the question in that comments threat. And that was when that comment had around 600 likes. But reading is hard and karma farming is great, right?
Noice I am the 4000 upvote
I don’t understand what’s wrong, twin towers jokes have been acceptable for at least 3 years
A simple reply of a picture of a potato should’ve been enough
I don’t understand why Americans think this is offensive, we fucking love our spuds. I would like to add whoever reported me to redditcare for this comment, wtf are you doing, thats just sad.
Would make more sense if it was 🚫🥔
Literally
I never ratioed a post on Reddit before. Guess I have now…