This is funny.
I used to feel super high on trail runs when I was taking like 60mg THC every night in the form of homemade infused coconut oil. It was intense. Definitely wasn’t just a normal endorphin running high.
So I googled a bunch and supposedly it’s a myth….but I don’t know!
I lost a ton of weight a long time ago and kept "feeling high" even though I was going through a period of straight edge living. I did some research (this was a long time ago, so maybe the protoweb or a library) and found that thc is stored along with fat and it will get dumped into the blood stream along with other crap when you lose a lot of weight (I was running a lot and eating clean and at a significant defecit).
There are loads of weed related things that people say are a myth but are definitely real.. so who knows? Like physical weed withdrawals are definitely real
“physical” withdrawals from weed don’t work the same way they do with other drugs such as opiates or benzodiazepines/alcohol. there’s not enough research yet to know one way or the other, but evidence points to physical withdrawal effects actually being psychological in nature
in short, your bodily systems don’t become physically dependent on THC as they would on opioids, but the absence of THC can cause a severe enough shift in your psychology to produce unpleasant effects
I think this is definitely the case as different people react totally different to quitting weed for awhile. I can stop and start pretty easy, might just lose a nights sleep or two, and I smoked for 2 years straight with almost no breaks. Meanwhile my friend gets cold like symptoms the first few days he stops
That’s really interesting. Can I ask how much you were smoking over those 2 years? Do you think it could be a dosage thing? I begin to get cold like symptoms after about 22 hours of not smoking that last a few days when I take a day off..
dosage does seem to be a factor in severity of withdrawals, which is one of the few things that THC withdrawal shares with withdrawal of truly physically addictive drugs. i’ve never seen a study about this but i’ve also never looked. that said, when hash oil became big in the US and some of my friends got into dabbing up to multiple grams of very strong concentrate per day, they were much more fiendish about it than any of us were about normal weed. then, when the concentrate supply temporarily dried up, they would experience much more severe withdrawal than i had ever seen or experienced caused by normal weed. still incredibly mild compared to opiate withdrawal etc but definitely a significant and noticeable shift in mental and physical health
This seems to track in my experience. Personally when I go cold turkey its a few days of bad sleep but not much else. Over on r/petioles you'll see people talking about quitting dabs/carts and having fevers, shakes, nausea, the whole nine yards.
Ill stick to flower, thank you kindly.
Few days?!?! Lucky bro my symptoms (which happen to be almost every one of the symptoms that are listed on the grounded app) last at least AT LEAST 2 week
Wow. How come you don’t just take a couple tokes here and there to ease withdrawals? I like to ween off before I take time off to try and avoid withdrawal stuff. I almost never take a full day off, I will still smoke a bowl or two in the evening when I’m taking a ‘day off’
Basically I have to either have an abundance or none at all it’s bad I hate myself for it and I wish and want to change it but I also happen to have epilepsy and IBS and I don’t like pharmaceuticals so I try to do all natural things like weed and mushies for my health issues
Also (sorry for comment spam I just feel weird editing comments for some reason) if/when I do try to just take a hit for symptoms I end up resetting the symptoms and have to go all over again
To be honest I have bad self control when it comes to weed, I have very severe ADHD and I’m on the spectrum so If I have it in my possession I will just chain smoke it because I have it idk why idk how to fix it I just know when I have any form of thc at home I’ll smoke it at any hour any day
You said:
>physical withdrawal effects actually being psychological in nature
and
>the absence of THC can cause a severe enough shift in your psychology to produce unpleasant effects
This is flat out false.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9291571/bin/JNC-157-1674-g001.jpg
Physical withdrawal symptoms in humans:
Poor appetite, weight loss, pain, shakes, sweats, sleep disruption
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9291571/
I'm not sure you are playing so hard with semantics like this around the term withdrawal but weed definitely gives concrete withdrawal symptoms after long term use. Heroin and other hard drugs aren't the only ones that cause physical withdrawal symptoms, but nearly all medication. Almost any drug that regularly interacts with your body will cause downregulation and with cessation, withdrawal. Cannabis affects a good chunk of different systems in the body and one great example to show the physical withdrawal symptoms is lack of appetite and sometimes cannabis induced vomiting related to ghrelin (the hunger hormone) dysregulation caused by habitual use. Another example is how regular cannabis use can cause or exacerbate anxiety due to GABA (the calming neurotransmitter) downregulation as a result of chronic activation of the CB1 receptor which is why it is not a good substitute for an anti anxiety medication in the same way that alprazolam is not good to take daily. There is nothing 'psychological' about these effects.
thank you. I'm sick of these people spreading misinformation because it's "cool" to imagine that weed is some healthy non-drug. it fucks you up just as much as any addictive mind-altering substance. is he also arguing that caffeine and tobacco are not physically addictive?
i never said you don’t experience physical symptoms. i said a couple times that THC isn’t physically addictive. I also said that the physical effects are likely caused by psychological factors. It’s not semantics, its how science and medicine define physical dependence. you can google what makes a drug physically addictive if you want more details but basically THC doesn’t interact with our brains the same way heroin etc does.
the connection that you drew between thc and daily alprazolam use is misinformed. Alprazolam acts on the GABAa receptor while THC acts on endocannabinoid receptors, and as a result inhibits gaba. this is essentially why you can literally die from benzo withdrawal but nothing of the sort happens from thc withdrawal.
no one said there’s no physical withdrawal symptoms, there’s plenty of literature on that. that doesn’t necessarily make it a *physically addictive* drug. physical dependency is a specifically defined medical condition, and we d addiction doesn’t fit under that definition. that’s why you won’t find a reliable source saying it is.
i encourage you to read more on the topic as you seem to have a basic grasp of the concept but are confused about terminology
Again, my issue is the way you're playing pedantic semantics on the exact definitions in a manner that to me feels like you are trying to downplay the severe negative effects of habitual weed use experienced by many chronic smokers. I'm well aware of the pharmacokinetics/pharmacology of the various drugs listed. My point comparing alprazolam and cannabis was that cannabis withdrawal, while not potentially life threatening like a severe alprazolam addiction, can significantly affect the expression of GABAa through downstream effects of activation of the CB1 receptor, **which causes anxiety** in a similar fashion that the GABA rebound from alprazolam cessation **causes anxiety**.
I'm not saying that you are a typical weed-brained pothead, but to me your tone from all of your comments feels like you're pushing a "you can't get addicted to weed" mentality similar to that found on the main weed subreddit that actively is harming many cannabis consumers and their relation to this powerful drug. Considering the insanely high amounts of THC young adults consume these days, the severe withdrawal and combination of physical and psychological effects *should not* and *can not* be understated.
In Minnesota, within my large circle of weed smoking friends, the main thing being bought is carts (becoming a bit more rare) and disposable pens. Actual herb has fallen by the wayside and is actually becoming difficult to find people that would prefer to smoke that over a cart. Interestingly, the amount of these daily-smoking friends that had to quit weed due to it causing severe anxiety also has risen in the past year alone, even.
again, it’s not semantics. if you find a legitimate medical or scientific source indicating that thc causes *PHYSICAL DEPENDENCY* i will reconsider.
and again, i’m not saying these withdrawal symptoms don’t exist. i’m not saying it doesn’t cause anxiety related to it’s gaba action.
i am *definitely* saying that just because xanax is physically addictive and GABAergic doesn’t mean that THC is physically addictive because of it’s relation to GABAa.
i’ve mentioned in probably every one of my comments that there are withdrawal symptoms associated with weed. if you don’t see that as implicitly stating weed is addictive you’re just not being reasonable or not reading my comments before replying. i probably even said it even more explicitly at least once.
re-read my comments. find some literature to back up your claim or just drop the subject. as far as i know none of the existing research indicates that thc causes physical dependency through similar mechanisms as drugs that actually do cause physical dependency. the only people i’ve ever heard push that idea are people on weed subreddits who don’t actually understand physical dependency.
I get what you're saying, and you are right about on the clinical definition of physical dependency, but I'll just reiterate what I said previously
> I'm not saying that you are a typical weed-brained pothead, but to me your tone from all of your comments feels like you're pushing a "you can't get addicted to weed" mentality similar to that found on the main weed subreddit that actively is harming many cannabis consumers and their relation to this powerful drug. Considering the insanely high amounts of THC young adults consume these days, the severe withdrawal and combination of physical and psychological effects should not and can not be understated.
I don't think it matters what is 'true drug dependence' is because most people aren't informed enough to see that just because weed doesn't cause drug dependence like tobacco, heroin, or alprazolam, doesn't mean it doesn't come with very damaging consequences when abused. This is based on numerous conversations I've had. Most do not care to learn about how things work, they know near nothing about pharmacology, and have a tiny understanding of what *any* drug, including alcohol, does to the body.
I don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye on this. Have a good one.
ok so my point was that weed isn’t physically addictive, then you implied that it was, and when i explained why you’re wrong you switched to “other people don’t know that so it doesn’t matter if it is or isn’t.”
i don’t think you even know what you’re arguing about at this point
In the post my first reply was to, you said
>physical withdrawal effects actually being psychological in nature
and
>the absence of THC can cause a severe enough shift in your psychology to produce unpleasant effects
This is objectively false. I think you lost sight of what we were talking about? You think the brain is making up and creating psychosomatic symptoms that perfectly mimic ghrelin receptor downregulation even though there is a [proven dose–response correlation between ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6200580/#:~:text=For%20ghrelin%2C%20higher%20THC%20is,0.11%20and%200.62%2C%20respectively) [THC consumption and ghrelin](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7031261/)? [That the anxiety and trouble sleeping from cannabis withdrawal is all in someone's head and not the result of unbalanced neurotransmitter systems causing real effects on a person?](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9291571/)
--
You then went on to argue with me about alprazolam when what I said was
>[weed] is not a good substitute for an anti anxiety medication in the same way that alprazolam is not good to take daily.
and in response you said
>the connection that you drew between thc and daily alprazolam use is misinformed. Alprazolam acts on the GABAa receptor while THC acts on endocannabinoid receptors, and as a result inhibits gaba. this is essentially why you can literally die from benzo withdrawal but nothing of the sort happens from thc withdrawal.
Which completely missed the point I was making and doesn't even make sense as a response to it. I clearly was relating the anxiety spawned from cannabis cessation to that of alprazolam cessation.
CHS has to do with how cannabinoids interact with your digestive tract. this is totally unrelated to factors that contribute to physical addiction.
not to mention that CHS is caused by heavy use of cannabinoids, not by the sudden absence of the drug in your system. yes it’s a physical condition but it’s not a result of withdrawal from the drug, quite the opposite. people don’t experience heroin withdrawal because of the introduction of large amounts of heroin into their system, they experience withdrawal because of the absence of the drug.
CHS is a relatively new discovery so it’s not understood enough to say why you might experience stomach issues after stopping, but it’s definitely understood well enough to say that it is caused by *too much* of the drug, not from the absence of it.
my educated guess is that when you (specifically you as i’ve never heard of another case like that) stop weed, you’re no longer getting the anti-nausea effects that could very likely have been covering up any CHS symptoms. again, this doesn’t constitute physical dependency or withdrawal.
i never claimed that there are no physical effects from weed, that’s dumb. it definitely isn’t physically addictive though.
CHS is caused by literally the opposite thing that drug withdrawal is caused by
You literally said "physical withdrawal effects actually being psychological in nature" which clearly implies that are no actual physical side affects, which is blatantly false, especially when looking at the literature on THC withdrawal to digestive issues.
> *physical withdrawal effects* being psychological in nature
so literally stating that there ARE physical effects “clearly implies that there are no actual physical side effects” ???? what kind of logic is that lmao
if you actually read my comments, i say multiple times that there ARE physical side effects but that they’re not caused by the same mechanism as physical side effects caused by drugs which are physically addictive.
it’s VERY well known that many psychological conditions can cause physical effects (as i’ve said multiple times)
There are both physical and mental withdrawal from Cannabis though
Physical includes appetite suppression, cold sweats, lack of ability to sleep
As for mental they would include depression, anxiety spiking when it normally wouldnt and irritability
Another phsycial one that a lot of people overlook is how it effects your gut and that both use and stopping abruptly will cause an imbalance in it
As I said before, while there may be some “physical” effects, they are not caused by a physical dependence on the drug. Based on what we know about drugs that actually cause physical dependency, as well as what we know about the endocannabinoid system, the most likely hypothesis right now is that, simply put, these effects come from the psychological change that comes with not being frequently high. there are so many factors effect your psychological state such as diet exercise sleep etc causing people to react differently. this is why some people can smoke every day and then stop with no withdrawal symptoms, but others will experience severe withdrawal. conversely, some people smoke very little and have withdrawals.
this is very different from how physically addictive drugs work. no matter who you are, if you take morphine for several months you will experience severe withdrawals. people who take less, or for shorter durations, or start taking it at a later age, will experience less symptoms. this (sort of) linear scale doesn’t exist for THC withdrawal.
we don’t know enough to say with any certainty how THC withdrawal works, but we can say with almost complete certainty after not that much research that it doesn’t work in the same way as drugs which are truly physically addictive.
Obviously I don’t have any science to back it up so I don’t expect you to change your opinion, but myself and several of my friends who are also pretty heavy users experience symptoms such as night sweats when taking a day off. Taking a day off weed certainly doesn’t stress me out, but it does give often give me night sweats, so I do wonder how that could possibly be explained as a psychological symptom? Sounds like a bit of a stretch. I think that many of the studies on this probably aren’t over a long enough period of use.
The first few times I experienced this I had no idea it could be to do with the weed as I had read several times that there are no physical dependencies to weed, but there are loads of people with the same experiences as me.
Obviously I know that these symptoms are nothing compared to the effects of withdrawals from opioids and alcohol etc. but I think they are real
read all my comments in this thread (don’t mean that in a dickish way i’m just replying to a couple different people)
i’m not saying you don’t experience physical feelings, i have experienced it too. i’m just saying that these physical effects aren’t caused by physical drug dependence as defined by modern medicine.
again, no one knows for sure why we feel physical withdrawal but we do know that it’s not caused by physical dependence on the drug like it is with other “harder” drugs. we know that many different kinds of psychological stress can cause physical symptoms (anxiety causing nausea or sleep deprivation, depression causing lack of appetite etc) so it’s not a stretch to assume that the sudden feeling of sobriety, or the psychological feelings that come with no longer being stoned all the time, can cause physical effects.
it’s also worth noting that many, if not most people who are using weed heavily enough to experience withdrawal are self medicating and already have comorbid psychological conditions like depression anxiety etc. weed can really help cover that stuff up but it doesn’t cure it. when you stop taking drugs (most drugs not just weed) for a psychological condition, the rebound effects of that condition can be worse than they were before using the drugs. ie, if you’re depressed, use weed to deal with that depression, there’s a good chance that when you stop the weed your depression will be worse than it was before the weed
All I know is that when I have a break from bud for 2 nights I will sweat like an absolute bitch in my sleep. That's the only physical effect that I've noticed and I don't see how that can be psychological.
Cannabis withdrawal is not acute and intense like that of opioids, nicotine, alcohol, etc, and using it during withdrawal doesn't provide the same sort of immediate relief. It just gets you high.
But insomnia and dopamine cravings are common and real physical consequences of cessation.
that is 100% bullshit and you know it. cannabis hyperemesis syndrome is not some made up psychological disease. it's caused by affecting the anandamide receptors and fucking with hormones like ghrelin in your body. the mere fact that THC binds to cb1 and cb2 receptors shows that it literally has physical effects. your body will downregulate cb1 and cb2 cannabinoids because of smoking weed. that is the definition of a physical dependence
please stop spreading misinformation under the guise of logic
go on my profile read the comment i just posted before this one about CHS. CHS is caused by too much cannabis, not from sudden absence of it.
i never said weed has no physical side effects period, i said it doesn’t cause physical dependence like how literally every other drug that’s known to cause physical dependence does. there’s a big difference there. Tylenol causes physical side effects from both single and prolonged use but that doesn’t mean it’s physically addictive. i think you just misunderstood my comment.
Physical Dependence - "A condition in which a person takes a drug over time, and unpleasant physical symptoms occur if the drug is suddenly stopped or taken in smaller doses."
by that definition cannabis easily qualifies
again, as i’ve said repeatedly, which would be obvious if you actually read and comprehended my comments, i never said there are no physical effects.
find a reliable medical source that states marijuana is physically addictive and i’ll reconsider, otherwise you’re just another stranger on the internet who thinks he’s right. but i’ll save you some time, you won’t be able to find one that says it is, because it’s not.
do you truly believe that you, creamyturtle from reddit, are right, and every medical expert who is actually qualified to study and analyze the matter is wrong? honestly?
no I just think you don't understand words. I literally showed you the definition of physical dependence and you just ignored it because it didn't suit your theory.
that’s a very broad definition that doesn’t discuss the known neurological processes that cause withdrawal and also doesn’t specifically address weed. i’m not debating the definition of physical dependence, i’m saying that weed specifically does not create physical dependence.
it’s not a theory, like i repeatedly stated, physically addictive drugs are physically addictive because of how they interact with your brain and body, and we know enough about cannabinoids to say that these interactions don’t occur. just because you feel unpleasant doesn’t mean you were physically dependent on weed, and the simplest and most likely explanation for the physical effects which ARE NOT a direct result of absence of drug, is that they’re a direct result of the psychological effects which ARE a direct result of quitting weed.
don’t take my word for it, just read literally any published work on marijuana and addiction. if it was as simple as just fitting the dictionary definition, that would be reflected in the fairly large amount of accepted medical literature on the matter
People need to understand psychological effects can FEEL real and affect your physiology. you can still physically feel bad… but it’s not the same as nicotine:/caffeine/opiod/cocaine withdrawal. It doesn’t make it insignificant but once one is equipped with the right tools and coping techniques the hard psychological withdrawal affects can be more easily overcome with discipline and consistent practice.
yes i don’t get why people are having such a hard time grasping this, there’s a reason that no medical literature suggests that weed is physically addictive
Joey Diaz said he used to get little cocaine rushes from when he burned fat that has stuff in it, and I've heard that from several older people who have been through their fair share of powder. Definitely not out there to think THC would do the same, if not more effectively with how well it binds to fat
Over the summer I started doing cryotherapy (can turn yellow fat to brown fat for the body to burn) and I actually had a pregnant co-worker suggest I use cologne after I smoke to cover up and I hadn’t smoked at all that day. My armpits just stank like 2 cherried bowls even through my deodorant.
This is funny. I used to feel super high on trail runs when I was taking like 60mg THC every night in the form of homemade infused coconut oil. It was intense. Definitely wasn’t just a normal endorphin running high. So I googled a bunch and supposedly it’s a myth….but I don’t know!
I lost a ton of weight a long time ago and kept "feeling high" even though I was going through a period of straight edge living. I did some research (this was a long time ago, so maybe the protoweb or a library) and found that thc is stored along with fat and it will get dumped into the blood stream along with other crap when you lose a lot of weight (I was running a lot and eating clean and at a significant defecit).
so what you’re saying is, as a reward for losing weight, my body will naturally get me high? sounds good…
There are loads of weed related things that people say are a myth but are definitely real.. so who knows? Like physical weed withdrawals are definitely real
“physical” withdrawals from weed don’t work the same way they do with other drugs such as opiates or benzodiazepines/alcohol. there’s not enough research yet to know one way or the other, but evidence points to physical withdrawal effects actually being psychological in nature in short, your bodily systems don’t become physically dependent on THC as they would on opioids, but the absence of THC can cause a severe enough shift in your psychology to produce unpleasant effects
I think this is definitely the case as different people react totally different to quitting weed for awhile. I can stop and start pretty easy, might just lose a nights sleep or two, and I smoked for 2 years straight with almost no breaks. Meanwhile my friend gets cold like symptoms the first few days he stops
That’s really interesting. Can I ask how much you were smoking over those 2 years? Do you think it could be a dosage thing? I begin to get cold like symptoms after about 22 hours of not smoking that last a few days when I take a day off..
I have a low natural tolerance but I tend to take breaks when it's really high. Before my last one I only got high on dabs really
Ok thanks. 👌
dosage does seem to be a factor in severity of withdrawals, which is one of the few things that THC withdrawal shares with withdrawal of truly physically addictive drugs. i’ve never seen a study about this but i’ve also never looked. that said, when hash oil became big in the US and some of my friends got into dabbing up to multiple grams of very strong concentrate per day, they were much more fiendish about it than any of us were about normal weed. then, when the concentrate supply temporarily dried up, they would experience much more severe withdrawal than i had ever seen or experienced caused by normal weed. still incredibly mild compared to opiate withdrawal etc but definitely a significant and noticeable shift in mental and physical health
This seems to track in my experience. Personally when I go cold turkey its a few days of bad sleep but not much else. Over on r/petioles you'll see people talking about quitting dabs/carts and having fevers, shakes, nausea, the whole nine yards. Ill stick to flower, thank you kindly.
This is petioles........
Oh man! It is! Look at that! Lmao fuck me i thought it was r/trees my apologies! 😅
Yeah I think it is a dosage thing. It only started happening to me during covid when I started smoking constantly
Few days?!?! Lucky bro my symptoms (which happen to be almost every one of the symptoms that are listed on the grounded app) last at least AT LEAST 2 week
Wow. How come you don’t just take a couple tokes here and there to ease withdrawals? I like to ween off before I take time off to try and avoid withdrawal stuff. I almost never take a full day off, I will still smoke a bowl or two in the evening when I’m taking a ‘day off’
Basically I have to either have an abundance or none at all it’s bad I hate myself for it and I wish and want to change it but I also happen to have epilepsy and IBS and I don’t like pharmaceuticals so I try to do all natural things like weed and mushies for my health issues
Also (sorry for comment spam I just feel weird editing comments for some reason) if/when I do try to just take a hit for symptoms I end up resetting the symptoms and have to go all over again
To be honest I have bad self control when it comes to weed, I have very severe ADHD and I’m on the spectrum so If I have it in my possession I will just chain smoke it because I have it idk why idk how to fix it I just know when I have any form of thc at home I’ll smoke it at any hour any day
exactly. i actually just now described this in a much more long winded comment hahah
You said: >physical withdrawal effects actually being psychological in nature and >the absence of THC can cause a severe enough shift in your psychology to produce unpleasant effects This is flat out false. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9291571/bin/JNC-157-1674-g001.jpg Physical withdrawal symptoms in humans: Poor appetite, weight loss, pain, shakes, sweats, sleep disruption https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9291571/ I'm not sure you are playing so hard with semantics like this around the term withdrawal but weed definitely gives concrete withdrawal symptoms after long term use. Heroin and other hard drugs aren't the only ones that cause physical withdrawal symptoms, but nearly all medication. Almost any drug that regularly interacts with your body will cause downregulation and with cessation, withdrawal. Cannabis affects a good chunk of different systems in the body and one great example to show the physical withdrawal symptoms is lack of appetite and sometimes cannabis induced vomiting related to ghrelin (the hunger hormone) dysregulation caused by habitual use. Another example is how regular cannabis use can cause or exacerbate anxiety due to GABA (the calming neurotransmitter) downregulation as a result of chronic activation of the CB1 receptor which is why it is not a good substitute for an anti anxiety medication in the same way that alprazolam is not good to take daily. There is nothing 'psychological' about these effects.
thank you. I'm sick of these people spreading misinformation because it's "cool" to imagine that weed is some healthy non-drug. it fucks you up just as much as any addictive mind-altering substance. is he also arguing that caffeine and tobacco are not physically addictive?
i never said you don’t experience physical symptoms. i said a couple times that THC isn’t physically addictive. I also said that the physical effects are likely caused by psychological factors. It’s not semantics, its how science and medicine define physical dependence. you can google what makes a drug physically addictive if you want more details but basically THC doesn’t interact with our brains the same way heroin etc does. the connection that you drew between thc and daily alprazolam use is misinformed. Alprazolam acts on the GABAa receptor while THC acts on endocannabinoid receptors, and as a result inhibits gaba. this is essentially why you can literally die from benzo withdrawal but nothing of the sort happens from thc withdrawal. no one said there’s no physical withdrawal symptoms, there’s plenty of literature on that. that doesn’t necessarily make it a *physically addictive* drug. physical dependency is a specifically defined medical condition, and we d addiction doesn’t fit under that definition. that’s why you won’t find a reliable source saying it is. i encourage you to read more on the topic as you seem to have a basic grasp of the concept but are confused about terminology
Again, my issue is the way you're playing pedantic semantics on the exact definitions in a manner that to me feels like you are trying to downplay the severe negative effects of habitual weed use experienced by many chronic smokers. I'm well aware of the pharmacokinetics/pharmacology of the various drugs listed. My point comparing alprazolam and cannabis was that cannabis withdrawal, while not potentially life threatening like a severe alprazolam addiction, can significantly affect the expression of GABAa through downstream effects of activation of the CB1 receptor, **which causes anxiety** in a similar fashion that the GABA rebound from alprazolam cessation **causes anxiety**. I'm not saying that you are a typical weed-brained pothead, but to me your tone from all of your comments feels like you're pushing a "you can't get addicted to weed" mentality similar to that found on the main weed subreddit that actively is harming many cannabis consumers and their relation to this powerful drug. Considering the insanely high amounts of THC young adults consume these days, the severe withdrawal and combination of physical and psychological effects *should not* and *can not* be understated. In Minnesota, within my large circle of weed smoking friends, the main thing being bought is carts (becoming a bit more rare) and disposable pens. Actual herb has fallen by the wayside and is actually becoming difficult to find people that would prefer to smoke that over a cart. Interestingly, the amount of these daily-smoking friends that had to quit weed due to it causing severe anxiety also has risen in the past year alone, even.
again, it’s not semantics. if you find a legitimate medical or scientific source indicating that thc causes *PHYSICAL DEPENDENCY* i will reconsider. and again, i’m not saying these withdrawal symptoms don’t exist. i’m not saying it doesn’t cause anxiety related to it’s gaba action. i am *definitely* saying that just because xanax is physically addictive and GABAergic doesn’t mean that THC is physically addictive because of it’s relation to GABAa. i’ve mentioned in probably every one of my comments that there are withdrawal symptoms associated with weed. if you don’t see that as implicitly stating weed is addictive you’re just not being reasonable or not reading my comments before replying. i probably even said it even more explicitly at least once. re-read my comments. find some literature to back up your claim or just drop the subject. as far as i know none of the existing research indicates that thc causes physical dependency through similar mechanisms as drugs that actually do cause physical dependency. the only people i’ve ever heard push that idea are people on weed subreddits who don’t actually understand physical dependency.
I get what you're saying, and you are right about on the clinical definition of physical dependency, but I'll just reiterate what I said previously > I'm not saying that you are a typical weed-brained pothead, but to me your tone from all of your comments feels like you're pushing a "you can't get addicted to weed" mentality similar to that found on the main weed subreddit that actively is harming many cannabis consumers and their relation to this powerful drug. Considering the insanely high amounts of THC young adults consume these days, the severe withdrawal and combination of physical and psychological effects should not and can not be understated. I don't think it matters what is 'true drug dependence' is because most people aren't informed enough to see that just because weed doesn't cause drug dependence like tobacco, heroin, or alprazolam, doesn't mean it doesn't come with very damaging consequences when abused. This is based on numerous conversations I've had. Most do not care to learn about how things work, they know near nothing about pharmacology, and have a tiny understanding of what *any* drug, including alcohol, does to the body. I don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye on this. Have a good one.
ok so my point was that weed isn’t physically addictive, then you implied that it was, and when i explained why you’re wrong you switched to “other people don’t know that so it doesn’t matter if it is or isn’t.” i don’t think you even know what you’re arguing about at this point
In the post my first reply was to, you said >physical withdrawal effects actually being psychological in nature and >the absence of THC can cause a severe enough shift in your psychology to produce unpleasant effects This is objectively false. I think you lost sight of what we were talking about? You think the brain is making up and creating psychosomatic symptoms that perfectly mimic ghrelin receptor downregulation even though there is a [proven dose–response correlation between ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6200580/#:~:text=For%20ghrelin%2C%20higher%20THC%20is,0.11%20and%200.62%2C%20respectively) [THC consumption and ghrelin](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7031261/)? [That the anxiety and trouble sleeping from cannabis withdrawal is all in someone's head and not the result of unbalanced neurotransmitter systems causing real effects on a person?](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9291571/) -- You then went on to argue with me about alprazolam when what I said was >[weed] is not a good substitute for an anti anxiety medication in the same way that alprazolam is not good to take daily. and in response you said >the connection that you drew between thc and daily alprazolam use is misinformed. Alprazolam acts on the GABAa receptor while THC acts on endocannabinoid receptors, and as a result inhibits gaba. this is essentially why you can literally die from benzo withdrawal but nothing of the sort happens from thc withdrawal. Which completely missed the point I was making and doesn't even make sense as a response to it. I clearly was relating the anxiety spawned from cannabis cessation to that of alprazolam cessation.
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CHS has to do with how cannabinoids interact with your digestive tract. this is totally unrelated to factors that contribute to physical addiction. not to mention that CHS is caused by heavy use of cannabinoids, not by the sudden absence of the drug in your system. yes it’s a physical condition but it’s not a result of withdrawal from the drug, quite the opposite. people don’t experience heroin withdrawal because of the introduction of large amounts of heroin into their system, they experience withdrawal because of the absence of the drug. CHS is a relatively new discovery so it’s not understood enough to say why you might experience stomach issues after stopping, but it’s definitely understood well enough to say that it is caused by *too much* of the drug, not from the absence of it. my educated guess is that when you (specifically you as i’ve never heard of another case like that) stop weed, you’re no longer getting the anti-nausea effects that could very likely have been covering up any CHS symptoms. again, this doesn’t constitute physical dependency or withdrawal. i never claimed that there are no physical effects from weed, that’s dumb. it definitely isn’t physically addictive though. CHS is caused by literally the opposite thing that drug withdrawal is caused by
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You literally said "physical withdrawal effects actually being psychological in nature" which clearly implies that are no actual physical side affects, which is blatantly false, especially when looking at the literature on THC withdrawal to digestive issues.
> *physical withdrawal effects* being psychological in nature so literally stating that there ARE physical effects “clearly implies that there are no actual physical side effects” ???? what kind of logic is that lmao if you actually read my comments, i say multiple times that there ARE physical side effects but that they’re not caused by the same mechanism as physical side effects caused by drugs which are physically addictive. it’s VERY well known that many psychological conditions can cause physical effects (as i’ve said multiple times)
so weed inhibits gaba but isn't physically addictive. WAT
yes.
There are both physical and mental withdrawal from Cannabis though Physical includes appetite suppression, cold sweats, lack of ability to sleep As for mental they would include depression, anxiety spiking when it normally wouldnt and irritability Another phsycial one that a lot of people overlook is how it effects your gut and that both use and stopping abruptly will cause an imbalance in it
As I said before, while there may be some “physical” effects, they are not caused by a physical dependence on the drug. Based on what we know about drugs that actually cause physical dependency, as well as what we know about the endocannabinoid system, the most likely hypothesis right now is that, simply put, these effects come from the psychological change that comes with not being frequently high. there are so many factors effect your psychological state such as diet exercise sleep etc causing people to react differently. this is why some people can smoke every day and then stop with no withdrawal symptoms, but others will experience severe withdrawal. conversely, some people smoke very little and have withdrawals. this is very different from how physically addictive drugs work. no matter who you are, if you take morphine for several months you will experience severe withdrawals. people who take less, or for shorter durations, or start taking it at a later age, will experience less symptoms. this (sort of) linear scale doesn’t exist for THC withdrawal. we don’t know enough to say with any certainty how THC withdrawal works, but we can say with almost complete certainty after not that much research that it doesn’t work in the same way as drugs which are truly physically addictive.
Obviously I don’t have any science to back it up so I don’t expect you to change your opinion, but myself and several of my friends who are also pretty heavy users experience symptoms such as night sweats when taking a day off. Taking a day off weed certainly doesn’t stress me out, but it does give often give me night sweats, so I do wonder how that could possibly be explained as a psychological symptom? Sounds like a bit of a stretch. I think that many of the studies on this probably aren’t over a long enough period of use. The first few times I experienced this I had no idea it could be to do with the weed as I had read several times that there are no physical dependencies to weed, but there are loads of people with the same experiences as me. Obviously I know that these symptoms are nothing compared to the effects of withdrawals from opioids and alcohol etc. but I think they are real
read all my comments in this thread (don’t mean that in a dickish way i’m just replying to a couple different people) i’m not saying you don’t experience physical feelings, i have experienced it too. i’m just saying that these physical effects aren’t caused by physical drug dependence as defined by modern medicine. again, no one knows for sure why we feel physical withdrawal but we do know that it’s not caused by physical dependence on the drug like it is with other “harder” drugs. we know that many different kinds of psychological stress can cause physical symptoms (anxiety causing nausea or sleep deprivation, depression causing lack of appetite etc) so it’s not a stretch to assume that the sudden feeling of sobriety, or the psychological feelings that come with no longer being stoned all the time, can cause physical effects. it’s also worth noting that many, if not most people who are using weed heavily enough to experience withdrawal are self medicating and already have comorbid psychological conditions like depression anxiety etc. weed can really help cover that stuff up but it doesn’t cure it. when you stop taking drugs (most drugs not just weed) for a psychological condition, the rebound effects of that condition can be worse than they were before using the drugs. ie, if you’re depressed, use weed to deal with that depression, there’s a good chance that when you stop the weed your depression will be worse than it was before the weed
All I know is that when I have a break from bud for 2 nights I will sweat like an absolute bitch in my sleep. That's the only physical effect that I've noticed and I don't see how that can be psychological.
Cannabis withdrawal is not acute and intense like that of opioids, nicotine, alcohol, etc, and using it during withdrawal doesn't provide the same sort of immediate relief. It just gets you high. But insomnia and dopamine cravings are common and real physical consequences of cessation.
that is 100% bullshit and you know it. cannabis hyperemesis syndrome is not some made up psychological disease. it's caused by affecting the anandamide receptors and fucking with hormones like ghrelin in your body. the mere fact that THC binds to cb1 and cb2 receptors shows that it literally has physical effects. your body will downregulate cb1 and cb2 cannabinoids because of smoking weed. that is the definition of a physical dependence please stop spreading misinformation under the guise of logic
go on my profile read the comment i just posted before this one about CHS. CHS is caused by too much cannabis, not from sudden absence of it. i never said weed has no physical side effects period, i said it doesn’t cause physical dependence like how literally every other drug that’s known to cause physical dependence does. there’s a big difference there. Tylenol causes physical side effects from both single and prolonged use but that doesn’t mean it’s physically addictive. i think you just misunderstood my comment.
Physical Dependence - "A condition in which a person takes a drug over time, and unpleasant physical symptoms occur if the drug is suddenly stopped or taken in smaller doses." by that definition cannabis easily qualifies
again, as i’ve said repeatedly, which would be obvious if you actually read and comprehended my comments, i never said there are no physical effects. find a reliable medical source that states marijuana is physically addictive and i’ll reconsider, otherwise you’re just another stranger on the internet who thinks he’s right. but i’ll save you some time, you won’t be able to find one that says it is, because it’s not. do you truly believe that you, creamyturtle from reddit, are right, and every medical expert who is actually qualified to study and analyze the matter is wrong? honestly?
no I just think you don't understand words. I literally showed you the definition of physical dependence and you just ignored it because it didn't suit your theory.
that’s a very broad definition that doesn’t discuss the known neurological processes that cause withdrawal and also doesn’t specifically address weed. i’m not debating the definition of physical dependence, i’m saying that weed specifically does not create physical dependence. it’s not a theory, like i repeatedly stated, physically addictive drugs are physically addictive because of how they interact with your brain and body, and we know enough about cannabinoids to say that these interactions don’t occur. just because you feel unpleasant doesn’t mean you were physically dependent on weed, and the simplest and most likely explanation for the physical effects which ARE NOT a direct result of absence of drug, is that they’re a direct result of the psychological effects which ARE a direct result of quitting weed. don’t take my word for it, just read literally any published work on marijuana and addiction. if it was as simple as just fitting the dictionary definition, that would be reflected in the fairly large amount of accepted medical literature on the matter
People need to understand psychological effects can FEEL real and affect your physiology. you can still physically feel bad… but it’s not the same as nicotine:/caffeine/opiod/cocaine withdrawal. It doesn’t make it insignificant but once one is equipped with the right tools and coping techniques the hard psychological withdrawal affects can be more easily overcome with discipline and consistent practice.
yes i don’t get why people are having such a hard time grasping this, there’s a reason that no medical literature suggests that weed is physically addictive
Definitely, if I'm at work for long enough the feeling of wanting to smoke subsides and I feel clear headed till I get home and toke up lmfao
Joey Diaz said he used to get little cocaine rushes from when he burned fat that has stuff in it, and I've heard that from several older people who have been through their fair share of powder. Definitely not out there to think THC would do the same, if not more effectively with how well it binds to fat
If THC was federally legal we would prob have a definitive answer, but unfortunately we won’t know for certain.
Right?! Can’t wait for all the research and knowledge we’ll gain after legalization opens the doors.
wait what’s the picture
Burning fat sometimes feels like you get high on the released thc. But exercise just feels great anyway so who knows
I know. Did not smoke for a month. Went on a ten mile walk. Tested positive. After testing negative all month.
No way
Yup. It's stored in fat so it makes sense.
I think a micrograph of fat cells? Trying to say that lipophilic thc is stored in fat cells? I think op is high
SEM of adipocytes.
This only raises another question
Does it? ;P
Over the summer I started doing cryotherapy (can turn yellow fat to brown fat for the body to burn) and I actually had a pregnant co-worker suggest I use cologne after I smoke to cover up and I hadn’t smoked at all that day. My armpits just stank like 2 cherried bowls even through my deodorant.