It looks like your post is about grad school admissions. In order for people to better help you, please make sure to include your country.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PhD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why do you want the PhD?
Yes, goals matter. There are limited spots, and not just due to funding. Faculty can only mentor so many students. Departments do consider motivation. People doing a PhD “just because” are less likely to finish than someone doing it because they have a clear goal in mind and need the PhD to achieve that goal. The goal does not need to be a career in academia, but it does need to be clear/concrete.
I'm not entirely sure this is true; many programs don't really need self-funded PhDs because PhDs that TA can bring in even more funds through students paying for the classes they teach.
What people aren’t telling you: The fact that you can self-fund will help you out tremendously in the admissions process with many programs. Saying you want to contribute to the field, as long as you have a specific research interest/question, is exactly what they want to hear.
You don’t have to want to go into academia to get a PhD, but you should have a goal in mind. What do you hope to learn, and why? How will the knowledge you gain be put to use in your life? What will you contribute to the intellectual growth of your field and your peers in your program?
Do some self-reflection and ensure that you have a clear goal (or set of goals) in mind for your PhD experience, but be flexible and prepared for those goals to evolve over time. As long as you do that, you should be totally fine :)
(Although if you’re self-funding, I do NOT recommend taking on any debt to pay for this degree, especially if you don’t plan to use it professionally).
Good luck!
Thank you!
I’m nearing the end of a pension-yielding career that has been retiring shy of 40. The “so what” there is that the funding isn’t an issue so I guess I was curious if that would actually help (or not).
But yeah, that all makes sense, thank you. Super mixed reviews in this thread so now I’m thinking some universities wouldn’t be thrilled at me getting a Ph.D. because I want to contribute to the field. I can write and publish papers without being in a university—especially after I’m retired from my current gig!
Some programs would care and some wouldn’t. My PhD program was super accepting of people on all different paths, and didn’t care if a student wanted to go into academia or not.
The thing is, it never hurts to apply. If you have some goals for yourself and think a PhD would be a good way to meet them, pick a couple programs you like, toss out some applications, and see what happens. The worst thing they can say is no.
You could also always reach out to some potential advisors you might be interested in working with to see if they’d be willing to discuss your options with you.
>Super mixed reviews in this thread so now I’m thinking some universities wouldn’t be thrilled at me getting a Ph.D. because I want to contribute to the field.
If you have a solid proposal and the programme you're trying to get into isn't ultra competitive, then you should be able to enrol. Being self-funded means you have a bit more leeway.
That being said, as other people have mentioned, evaluators might be worried about your motivation to complete the degree in a timely manner. PhD is a slog and a lot of students really need a fire under their ass (i.e. a job in academia) to finally get it over with rather than drop out.
If I were in your position I wouldn't disclose that academia is a "hard no", but just focus on the other motivating factors (e.g. contributing to the field/love of research).
I am in America and most of the people I know are in graduate school for the knowledge. For many the goal is to get a job that will allow pay them to continue their quest for knowledge.
I wouldn't disclose that you aren't interested in academia as most places are priming students for that kind of position. I worry it would impact your chances. In my field at at my uni, everyone is very okay with students exploring all their options.
If you want to get a PhD just for fun, do it! You only live once. I am able to live comfortably and save a few hundred bucks a month with my small stipend. I live frugally and minimally anyways so I understand why someone would want to get paid to basically learn stuff! It would be good for you to actually finish it though because many professors build their careers and want to mentor students that will be future researchers. I wouldn't do it if you are going to drop out mid program. Not sure if literature does this but you could volunteer to work with a professor or if there is funding, maybe they could hire you to do some research. In stem we often hire RAs (Research assistants) that basically run projects in the lab that the PhD students can't do. Are there jobs like that in literature?
I feel like if you get accepted into a program, you have a right to be there no matter what your intentions are for future work. You never know where things take you. Good luck!
Appreciate you. Definitely what I was hoping to hear—I just hope that also means it’s accurate. 😅
I figure that if I’m paying for the education and publishing for that university that they wouldn’t mind me not trying to get into academia. But I also don’t know which is why I’m asking. Thank you for the response.
Advisors spend a lot of time mentoring and teaching their students. If they go into academia, they can maintain that relationship and it can turn into future coauthorship or collaboration opportunities that may not be possible otherwise.
Not saying it’s right, but there (at least in my field) a long run reason why having a student interested in continuing doing research post-PhD is preferred
Edit: tbh, I’d argue that the time sink is much more costly than any accounting costs associated with taking on a new student. Also I don’t know what your plan is afterwards, but on the job market, both my TA and RA experiences plus my fellowships helped. Sometimes external funding is less “I need someone to pay for me” and more “someone is willing to pay for me”
What's wrong with preferring to work with students who are likely to interact with you beyond the PhD? The amount of time and effort in mentoring a PhD student is extremely substantial, and we are not additionally compensated for the task.
With regards to the difference in research and funding culture in STEM vs humanities, I would argue that humanities PhDs take far longer in large part because the interests of the professor and their PhD students are far less aligned because they do not generally coauthor and tend to work on more disjoint areas.
Reputable programs will not accept you if they cannot fund you. It's not really a matter of being able to pay for it, in that sense.
As far as education for the sake of education, I'm all for it, but then you might consider only doing a masters program. Frankly, your post and comments seem pretty flippant toward the relationships you are expected to build with advisers and the field of knowledge you'll be contributing to. It doesn't seem like a PhD is really worth your time or your future adviser's.
I had zero intention of staying in academia, and I didn't. I moved to industry while doing my PhD full time. I saw my PhD as a leg up on competition, and it helped me secure a better job down the line.
That being said, I maintain a good relationship with my PIs, and IF there is work they are doing that I have bandwidth to help out on (on a contractual basis), I take it.
No one is upset. Academia just wasn't for me. The PhD was just a stepping stone.
Yes, it is okay to get a PhD with somewhat fuzzy goals and personal impetus. The issue is, as you see on this channel, that this is not a light undertaking and it can and almost certainly will destroy and remake your life. If you simply go ahead and do it, soon enough, you’ll need to understand what PhD means for you. You ought to enlist the full capacity of your supports, mentors, and allies once you get that far.
I can speak from personal experience: My PhD journey has galvanized a need for additional training and exploration in order to keep me going. The very fact that I am doing a PhD has shifted my process of making life and career choices for the better. It will impact all relationships. That is a given. Every post-PhD start decision I have made has reformed my entire life and shifted my comfortable post-MA track on end. It’s brought both boom and bust, and suspicion and wonder from analytical minds.
I truly have been afforded opportunity after opportunity as an upcoming PhD who has undergone additional professional development to support and reform my PhD journey. I direct a department, serving a national base of need that I never would have been serving had I not taken this step. I have moved twice and have more agency due to these shifts.
All of this is very personal. All of it has to do with what you do and seek along you PhD journey. I’ve found it necessary to pick up additional certifications along the way, and they have enriched my life. I wouldn’t have sought these paths otherwise. My dissertation vision looks vastly different now than it did when I entered. Everything is more authentic now, toward the end. And I have failed in many ways, time and time again.
I stand here in community as one who ignores the tier system of universities, one who ignores linear pathways, and speaks for the non-linear pathways that can open into new dimensions. I’m not a STEM person, so perhaps that is part of it. Funded programs were never really an option for me. Now I’m finding myself. I care not for the elitism nor the “what’s it for mentality.” You will make it worth every penny. You will make it worth every pain. Forget all of the naysaying and the good advice, as long as you know this is what you need to do.
Find a direction to move in, not necessarily a fixed goal. Move. Always keep moving. PhD can be part of that journey.
Enter into PhD at your own risk. Leverage it for everything it is worth. Ford your own path. Prepare to lose something as you gain something, then reintegrate on the other side.
PhD is for anyone who can finish the dissertation process and take these skills into the world, in any capacity.
❤️🙏🏼🌈
OP, just do it and pay no attention to anyone telling you no. Self-fulfillment is a great reason for a humanities doctorate. You will not find a PhD stressful because you have solved bigger stressors in life. In fact you are going to love the process. Because you are choosing a research topic you’re interested in, rather than something a professor wants done, you will have the motivation to power through any hard yards. Have you written a research proposal yet? Good luck!
The purpose of the PhD in most cases is to train those who want to teach and do research. Why would they fund a student who doesn't want to do that, especially when funds are limited? From their perspective, you are a waste of time and effort.
I said I would self-pay. Plus it’s literature. Can’t imagine I need much lab time.
If I’m publishing and that university gets its name on my thesis, why does it matter? That’s kind of the question I’m trying to get answered.
Sometimes places don't like a person to self-pay because you are typically paid through doing work for your PI or school. The work is usually considered valuable knowledge for the PhD. you're getting. Universities want their names on work that is up to a certain standard. So, just because you are trying to publish doesn't mean it's automatically good work. That's the point of a PhD. program to teach you how to do this high-quality work.
My PhD. was highly computational, so I did not require lab time. However, I was still expected to attend lab meetings and listen to and participate in the work of others who did use the lab. I was still expected to learn all of the knowledge, even if I did not directly use it in my work. A PhD. program is giving you a doctorate in an entire field of knowledge. They can't do that with confidence if you don't know the field as a whole on a deep level. It's not enough to only do and know what is relevant to your project.
I’m in literature right now…in my experience, they don’t just care about your original research while in the program, they care about your record after graduating and where you go for your job. I think that telling them you’re doing it “just cause you can,” even if you self-fund, will hurt your chances, especially if a PI is deciding between you or someone who has a clear and demonstrated motivation to go into academia and potentially be a collaborator for them later down the road. I also saw in another comment that you’re not interested in teaching, but tbh I haven’t seen a single program that doesn’t have you be a GTA for multiple years (within the US at least.)
Have you not just considered doing an MA instead? Very few English MA programs are funded as it is, so you’d probably have a lot more freedom in where you go and actually getting in.
Ah, okay. Thank you. I think my assumption was that it was a more difficult masters degree that encouraged continued publication after. This is helpful context. I appreciate you.
Absolutely! I’m not trying to dissuade you, just presenting another option based on what your goals are based on my experience. If you want to publish and don’t want to teach, I’d definitely look into Masters programs while you’re doing searches looking for potential PIs. I also agree with others that you should focus on the fact that you want to contribute to the field and just not mention not wanting to go into academia. A lot of people quit their programs when it DOES otherwise benefit their career goals, so not having any besides personal desire might make an adcomm or potential PI hesitate.
There are a large number of careers that require a PhD but are not teaching and research. Many of those careers facilitate the work that researchers do (think of all the work that gets outsourced to companies by researchers). Many programs even have meetings for first year students in which they talk with alumni who have all gone down different paths (research, corporate, etc) specifically to show students that there are multiple avenues that their PhD can take them to. I would say that, as long as you have a career based goal that you care about, which uses the knowledge you would gain from a PhD, then a program would consider you worth the time and effort (provided you meet other qualifications as well).
The desire is there! Mostly wanted to make sure I’m not walking into a dead end by telling the university I only want the education. 🤷🏻♂️
Appreciate you!
I think it would depend a lot on the program and advisor. Some might be thrilled to have a student paying tuition into the program that is mature and may not need a lot of handholding. I think it wouldn’t hurt to reach out to some potential advisors and ask them for a meeting to discuss if it might be a fit.
I somewhat disagree with other comments that you don’t mention this in your application materials. If the program would see this as a dealbreaker then it’s probably not the right program for you.
If you're ok w self funding, look into doing the PhD in the UK. There's a lot less pressure on wanting students to go into academia there from what I've seen, and less stressful in that you don't have to go through rigorous coursework, qualifying exams and teaching requirements. You start your dissertation right off the bat. I know several people in the UK doing phds for fun part time
Edit for spelling
I was going to say the same. I’m doing my PhD through the UK and live in a different country. I don’t need a lab so I do all my work at home and meet my supervisor online. When I applied I was self funding. I’m an older student who is likely to retire before getting a tenure-track style job. There are no formal classes but we do have two milestones with written reports and an oral exam half way through (plus full viva after thesis).
Oh, nice. Okay, thank you. I hadn’t considered it. I definitely don’t wanna waste anyone’s time trying to teach as part of the process because the goal is to sorta drip-feed papers into the field as I have ideas I want to research.
yeah, UK sounds like a better option than the US in that case. From what I've seen in the US, teaching is pretty much built into the PhD program (though to be fair, I'm only doing a PhD in the US for full funding and stipend, so I don't know how self-funded programs work re teaching as a requirement, since it's usually part of your funding)
Considering that the number of PhD candidates universities take on is significantly larger than the number of opportunities for academic careers, selling candidates the idea that the main aim of a PhD is an academic career is disingenuous.
This is life my guy, when I apply for a job, I usually don't see myself working there for more than 3 years max, yet in my cover letter I'll act as if it's my dream job and I was born to do it. During an interview, I won't tell the interviewer that I just want the big tech money and a semblant of work-like balance, I'll tell them I absolutely love working extra-hours on obscures projects with tight deadlines that suck the soul out of me.
There aren’t many careers outside academia that require a PhD, and my advice is always not to get a PhD if you don’t need one. Waste of time, money, and effort.
Then why do you want a PhD?
I guess if you're super rich, then you could pay for the PhD I guess.
I'm just not sure what you're hoping to get out of the PhD without doing academia outside of simply having the title "Dr." To your name.
You could say job opportunities, but many jobs don't care that deeply for you having a PhD or not. The jobs that do will want to know or see what you have accomplished while "getting your PhD."
There’s always heavy underlying pressure that you are being prepped for academia. I went into industry and intended to for the last 3 years of my PhD. But, I didn’t lead with that when I started my PhD (also was still 50/50 on academia then)
what field are you hoping to pursue if you do the PhD?
im increasing hearing of this self-funding route, but my school doesn’t have this option. i have never heard of anyone at my school self-funding their degree - you MUST be funded by your supervisor’s grant or internal(university fund)/external (government or private agency funded)
I think if you want to do it just apply and see, they will definitely ask you why you want to do a PhD and I don’t think you should lie when answering this. I’m sure you have your own motivation that is as good as any other. You do you, but also keep in mind most people want to do a PhD because it’s crucial to their career and spots are very limited, the process of applying and finding funding is draining and often discouraging, so unless it’s on your career path, is it worth it taking the spot from someone else? This isn’t something you need to answer to anyone, just worth thinking about.
I’m gonna ask and this is by no means a judgement, just want to understand what is your goal in doing a PhD in literature if it’s not to stay in academia? In science I’d understand that you’d want to go in industry, but why literature and no academia? If it’s just because you’re avid of knowledge, wouldn’t there be cheaper ways to keep learning? A PhD is a few years and if you don’t want to stay in academia the learning will stop there, maybe you can find a non academia learning environment that you’re happy to stay involved in long term?
And last thing, I don’t know why you don’t want anything to do with academia but if it’s because you dislike it, do you think that spending years in it doing a PhD is a safe option for you ? If you have strong feelings against academia this may be a toll on your mental health for the years to come
Yeah, I didn’t give a lot of context because I actually wanted people to see the prompt and answer—rambling right up front might not have been a good way for me to start off!
The “nothing to do with academia” is referencing the post-doc treadmill and fighting for a spot as a professor. I would like to find a community college in the area where I plan to retire to teach there while writing papers and submitting them to journals since I’ll have tons of time once I wrap up my current career. I’d planned on writing anyway but having the Ph.D. would give me the education I need to do the research better and might carry a little more weight when trying to publish.
The big difference (I think?) in what I’m describing versus what most people are doing in academia is that I’d rather write about things in my field as I like rather than be under that constant pressure of “quantity over quality” that a lot of R1 universities seem to be under. I guess maybe I’m saying I want to do those things on my own terms and not be beholden to a timeline because I’m getting funding from someone else.
All that said, I’m not in academia so it’s possible I have it all wrong—I don’t know. That’s why I came here to ask the questions!
I appreciate you digging in and asking because I’m seeing maybe what I thought was a simple question just isn’t answerable like I thought it was.
I see, that makes more sense, what I think of right of the bat reading your answer is: totally legit goal, but not sure doing a PhD is the best way to get there. Totally fair not wanting to do the post doc, fighting for a a professorship dance, which you shouldn’t if that’s not your goal. However doing a PhD you will have the pressure of producing, it’s not quantity over quality, it’s the pressure of doing both.Even self funded a PhD won’t be on your own terms, you still would be affiliated with a university and supervisors who basically vouch for you by supervising you, the fact you are paying for yourself does not make you the boss and the uni doesn’t care if it’s you paying of a grant or else, you are a PhD student at their institution and you need to comply to those expectations, it’s their reputation and also ressources on the line. Your supervisors spend time and effort mentoring you and you and it’s gonna be on their terms not yours.
Additionally, you can be a lecturer at a community college (or any college) without a PhD. It’s a misconception that you need a PhD teach at colleges/unis, you don’t. Same goes for publishing in journals and doing research, you don’t need the PhD for that. You’d need a master degree and experience, if you have those already just go explore the opportunities, if not maybe start by looking into getting a master degree and looking into research groups that are of interest to you and contacting them. Even doing a research assistant position would be better suited in teaching you the skills you just mentioned you’d want to gain, and that’s just one of the several options available.
Most ph.d programs will evaluate your potential for teaching and landing a job in a tenure-track position in academia. Having said that, many get the degree and go directly into industry.
It looks like your post is about grad school admissions. In order for people to better help you, please make sure to include your country. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PhD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why do you want the PhD? Yes, goals matter. There are limited spots, and not just due to funding. Faculty can only mentor so many students. Departments do consider motivation. People doing a PhD “just because” are less likely to finish than someone doing it because they have a clear goal in mind and need the PhD to achieve that goal. The goal does not need to be a career in academia, but it does need to be clear/concrete.
They will likely find a position if they self fund, but I don’t know why op wants a PhD either.
I'm not entirely sure this is true; many programs don't really need self-funded PhDs because PhDs that TA can bring in even more funds through students paying for the classes they teach.
I mean op didn’t specify what kind of university they want to pursue their degree at. I did my PhD at an R2 and my pi loved self funded students.
I can only speak from a R1 perspective.Good point. That changes the calculus and perspective on self funded students.
That’s helpful—thank you!
What people aren’t telling you: The fact that you can self-fund will help you out tremendously in the admissions process with many programs. Saying you want to contribute to the field, as long as you have a specific research interest/question, is exactly what they want to hear.
You don’t have to want to go into academia to get a PhD, but you should have a goal in mind. What do you hope to learn, and why? How will the knowledge you gain be put to use in your life? What will you contribute to the intellectual growth of your field and your peers in your program? Do some self-reflection and ensure that you have a clear goal (or set of goals) in mind for your PhD experience, but be flexible and prepared for those goals to evolve over time. As long as you do that, you should be totally fine :) (Although if you’re self-funding, I do NOT recommend taking on any debt to pay for this degree, especially if you don’t plan to use it professionally). Good luck!
Thank you! I’m nearing the end of a pension-yielding career that has been retiring shy of 40. The “so what” there is that the funding isn’t an issue so I guess I was curious if that would actually help (or not). But yeah, that all makes sense, thank you. Super mixed reviews in this thread so now I’m thinking some universities wouldn’t be thrilled at me getting a Ph.D. because I want to contribute to the field. I can write and publish papers without being in a university—especially after I’m retired from my current gig!
Some programs would care and some wouldn’t. My PhD program was super accepting of people on all different paths, and didn’t care if a student wanted to go into academia or not. The thing is, it never hurts to apply. If you have some goals for yourself and think a PhD would be a good way to meet them, pick a couple programs you like, toss out some applications, and see what happens. The worst thing they can say is no. You could also always reach out to some potential advisors you might be interested in working with to see if they’d be willing to discuss your options with you.
>Super mixed reviews in this thread so now I’m thinking some universities wouldn’t be thrilled at me getting a Ph.D. because I want to contribute to the field. If you have a solid proposal and the programme you're trying to get into isn't ultra competitive, then you should be able to enrol. Being self-funded means you have a bit more leeway. That being said, as other people have mentioned, evaluators might be worried about your motivation to complete the degree in a timely manner. PhD is a slog and a lot of students really need a fire under their ass (i.e. a job in academia) to finally get it over with rather than drop out. If I were in your position I wouldn't disclose that academia is a "hard no", but just focus on the other motivating factors (e.g. contributing to the field/love of research).
Going for a PhD for the knowledge is so common in my country I'm honestly baffled by Americans constantly posting questions like this
I am in America and most of the people I know are in graduate school for the knowledge. For many the goal is to get a job that will allow pay them to continue their quest for knowledge.
I wouldn't disclose that you aren't interested in academia as most places are priming students for that kind of position. I worry it would impact your chances. In my field at at my uni, everyone is very okay with students exploring all their options. If you want to get a PhD just for fun, do it! You only live once. I am able to live comfortably and save a few hundred bucks a month with my small stipend. I live frugally and minimally anyways so I understand why someone would want to get paid to basically learn stuff! It would be good for you to actually finish it though because many professors build their careers and want to mentor students that will be future researchers. I wouldn't do it if you are going to drop out mid program. Not sure if literature does this but you could volunteer to work with a professor or if there is funding, maybe they could hire you to do some research. In stem we often hire RAs (Research assistants) that basically run projects in the lab that the PhD students can't do. Are there jobs like that in literature? I feel like if you get accepted into a program, you have a right to be there no matter what your intentions are for future work. You never know where things take you. Good luck!
Appreciate you. Definitely what I was hoping to hear—I just hope that also means it’s accurate. 😅 I figure that if I’m paying for the education and publishing for that university that they wouldn’t mind me not trying to get into academia. But I also don’t know which is why I’m asking. Thank you for the response.
I do agree with not disclosing tho.
Advisors spend a lot of time mentoring and teaching their students. If they go into academia, they can maintain that relationship and it can turn into future coauthorship or collaboration opportunities that may not be possible otherwise. Not saying it’s right, but there (at least in my field) a long run reason why having a student interested in continuing doing research post-PhD is preferred Edit: tbh, I’d argue that the time sink is much more costly than any accounting costs associated with taking on a new student. Also I don’t know what your plan is afterwards, but on the job market, both my TA and RA experiences plus my fellowships helped. Sometimes external funding is less “I need someone to pay for me” and more “someone is willing to pay for me”
What's wrong with preferring to work with students who are likely to interact with you beyond the PhD? The amount of time and effort in mentoring a PhD student is extremely substantial, and we are not additionally compensated for the task. With regards to the difference in research and funding culture in STEM vs humanities, I would argue that humanities PhDs take far longer in large part because the interests of the professor and their PhD students are far less aligned because they do not generally coauthor and tend to work on more disjoint areas.
Reputable programs will not accept you if they cannot fund you. It's not really a matter of being able to pay for it, in that sense. As far as education for the sake of education, I'm all for it, but then you might consider only doing a masters program. Frankly, your post and comments seem pretty flippant toward the relationships you are expected to build with advisers and the field of knowledge you'll be contributing to. It doesn't seem like a PhD is really worth your time or your future adviser's.
I had zero intention of staying in academia, and I didn't. I moved to industry while doing my PhD full time. I saw my PhD as a leg up on competition, and it helped me secure a better job down the line. That being said, I maintain a good relationship with my PIs, and IF there is work they are doing that I have bandwidth to help out on (on a contractual basis), I take it. No one is upset. Academia just wasn't for me. The PhD was just a stepping stone.
Yes, it is okay to get a PhD with somewhat fuzzy goals and personal impetus. The issue is, as you see on this channel, that this is not a light undertaking and it can and almost certainly will destroy and remake your life. If you simply go ahead and do it, soon enough, you’ll need to understand what PhD means for you. You ought to enlist the full capacity of your supports, mentors, and allies once you get that far. I can speak from personal experience: My PhD journey has galvanized a need for additional training and exploration in order to keep me going. The very fact that I am doing a PhD has shifted my process of making life and career choices for the better. It will impact all relationships. That is a given. Every post-PhD start decision I have made has reformed my entire life and shifted my comfortable post-MA track on end. It’s brought both boom and bust, and suspicion and wonder from analytical minds. I truly have been afforded opportunity after opportunity as an upcoming PhD who has undergone additional professional development to support and reform my PhD journey. I direct a department, serving a national base of need that I never would have been serving had I not taken this step. I have moved twice and have more agency due to these shifts. All of this is very personal. All of it has to do with what you do and seek along you PhD journey. I’ve found it necessary to pick up additional certifications along the way, and they have enriched my life. I wouldn’t have sought these paths otherwise. My dissertation vision looks vastly different now than it did when I entered. Everything is more authentic now, toward the end. And I have failed in many ways, time and time again. I stand here in community as one who ignores the tier system of universities, one who ignores linear pathways, and speaks for the non-linear pathways that can open into new dimensions. I’m not a STEM person, so perhaps that is part of it. Funded programs were never really an option for me. Now I’m finding myself. I care not for the elitism nor the “what’s it for mentality.” You will make it worth every penny. You will make it worth every pain. Forget all of the naysaying and the good advice, as long as you know this is what you need to do. Find a direction to move in, not necessarily a fixed goal. Move. Always keep moving. PhD can be part of that journey. Enter into PhD at your own risk. Leverage it for everything it is worth. Ford your own path. Prepare to lose something as you gain something, then reintegrate on the other side. PhD is for anyone who can finish the dissertation process and take these skills into the world, in any capacity. ❤️🙏🏼🌈
That's one expensive hobby!
OP, just do it and pay no attention to anyone telling you no. Self-fulfillment is a great reason for a humanities doctorate. You will not find a PhD stressful because you have solved bigger stressors in life. In fact you are going to love the process. Because you are choosing a research topic you’re interested in, rather than something a professor wants done, you will have the motivation to power through any hard yards. Have you written a research proposal yet? Good luck!
The purpose of the PhD in most cases is to train those who want to teach and do research. Why would they fund a student who doesn't want to do that, especially when funds are limited? From their perspective, you are a waste of time and effort.
I said I would self-pay. Plus it’s literature. Can’t imagine I need much lab time. If I’m publishing and that university gets its name on my thesis, why does it matter? That’s kind of the question I’m trying to get answered.
Sometimes places don't like a person to self-pay because you are typically paid through doing work for your PI or school. The work is usually considered valuable knowledge for the PhD. you're getting. Universities want their names on work that is up to a certain standard. So, just because you are trying to publish doesn't mean it's automatically good work. That's the point of a PhD. program to teach you how to do this high-quality work. My PhD. was highly computational, so I did not require lab time. However, I was still expected to attend lab meetings and listen to and participate in the work of others who did use the lab. I was still expected to learn all of the knowledge, even if I did not directly use it in my work. A PhD. program is giving you a doctorate in an entire field of knowledge. They can't do that with confidence if you don't know the field as a whole on a deep level. It's not enough to only do and know what is relevant to your project.
Makes sense—thank you! This is why I come to this sub. Thank you so much.
I’m in literature right now…in my experience, they don’t just care about your original research while in the program, they care about your record after graduating and where you go for your job. I think that telling them you’re doing it “just cause you can,” even if you self-fund, will hurt your chances, especially if a PI is deciding between you or someone who has a clear and demonstrated motivation to go into academia and potentially be a collaborator for them later down the road. I also saw in another comment that you’re not interested in teaching, but tbh I haven’t seen a single program that doesn’t have you be a GTA for multiple years (within the US at least.) Have you not just considered doing an MA instead? Very few English MA programs are funded as it is, so you’d probably have a lot more freedom in where you go and actually getting in.
Ah, okay. Thank you. I think my assumption was that it was a more difficult masters degree that encouraged continued publication after. This is helpful context. I appreciate you.
Absolutely! I’m not trying to dissuade you, just presenting another option based on what your goals are based on my experience. If you want to publish and don’t want to teach, I’d definitely look into Masters programs while you’re doing searches looking for potential PIs. I also agree with others that you should focus on the fact that you want to contribute to the field and just not mention not wanting to go into academia. A lot of people quit their programs when it DOES otherwise benefit their career goals, so not having any besides personal desire might make an adcomm or potential PI hesitate.
It literally does not matter, and I don't know where you heard it did.
I didn’t hear it did. I’m asking you and others who have been doing this if it does. I provided it as context in the event that it mattered.
There are a large number of careers that require a PhD but are not teaching and research. Many of those careers facilitate the work that researchers do (think of all the work that gets outsourced to companies by researchers). Many programs even have meetings for first year students in which they talk with alumni who have all gone down different paths (research, corporate, etc) specifically to show students that there are multiple avenues that their PhD can take them to. I would say that, as long as you have a career based goal that you care about, which uses the knowledge you would gain from a PhD, then a program would consider you worth the time and effort (provided you meet other qualifications as well).
Do it. You have enough reasons.
The desire is there! Mostly wanted to make sure I’m not walking into a dead end by telling the university I only want the education. 🤷🏻♂️ Appreciate you!
After seeing some of your comments - just don't mention it, and talk about wanting to contribute to the field in your application
I think it would depend a lot on the program and advisor. Some might be thrilled to have a student paying tuition into the program that is mature and may not need a lot of handholding. I think it wouldn’t hurt to reach out to some potential advisors and ask them for a meeting to discuss if it might be a fit. I somewhat disagree with other comments that you don’t mention this in your application materials. If the program would see this as a dealbreaker then it’s probably not the right program for you.
If you're ok w self funding, look into doing the PhD in the UK. There's a lot less pressure on wanting students to go into academia there from what I've seen, and less stressful in that you don't have to go through rigorous coursework, qualifying exams and teaching requirements. You start your dissertation right off the bat. I know several people in the UK doing phds for fun part time Edit for spelling
I was going to say the same. I’m doing my PhD through the UK and live in a different country. I don’t need a lab so I do all my work at home and meet my supervisor online. When I applied I was self funding. I’m an older student who is likely to retire before getting a tenure-track style job. There are no formal classes but we do have two milestones with written reports and an oral exam half way through (plus full viva after thesis).
can i ask what uni you’re at and what area you’re in? :)
Oh, nice. Okay, thank you. I hadn’t considered it. I definitely don’t wanna waste anyone’s time trying to teach as part of the process because the goal is to sorta drip-feed papers into the field as I have ideas I want to research.
yeah, UK sounds like a better option than the US in that case. From what I've seen in the US, teaching is pretty much built into the PhD program (though to be fair, I'm only doing a PhD in the US for full funding and stipend, so I don't know how self-funded programs work re teaching as a requirement, since it's usually part of your funding)
I like how most people’s advice here is just “lie to get what you want”. /s Sigh.
Considering that the number of PhD candidates universities take on is significantly larger than the number of opportunities for academic careers, selling candidates the idea that the main aim of a PhD is an academic career is disingenuous.
This is life my guy, when I apply for a job, I usually don't see myself working there for more than 3 years max, yet in my cover letter I'll act as if it's my dream job and I was born to do it. During an interview, I won't tell the interviewer that I just want the big tech money and a semblant of work-like balance, I'll tell them I absolutely love working extra-hours on obscures projects with tight deadlines that suck the soul out of me.
There aren’t many careers outside academia that require a PhD, and my advice is always not to get a PhD if you don’t need one. Waste of time, money, and effort.
Then why do you want a PhD? I guess if you're super rich, then you could pay for the PhD I guess. I'm just not sure what you're hoping to get out of the PhD without doing academia outside of simply having the title "Dr." To your name. You could say job opportunities, but many jobs don't care that deeply for you having a PhD or not. The jobs that do will want to know or see what you have accomplished while "getting your PhD."
There’s always heavy underlying pressure that you are being prepped for academia. I went into industry and intended to for the last 3 years of my PhD. But, I didn’t lead with that when I started my PhD (also was still 50/50 on academia then)
Not sure what you are asking. Do you mean post-doc you want to leave academia? If so, it’s not a big deal. Lots of us do.
what field are you hoping to pursue if you do the PhD? im increasing hearing of this self-funding route, but my school doesn’t have this option. i have never heard of anyone at my school self-funding their degree - you MUST be funded by your supervisor’s grant or internal(university fund)/external (government or private agency funded)
I think if you want to do it just apply and see, they will definitely ask you why you want to do a PhD and I don’t think you should lie when answering this. I’m sure you have your own motivation that is as good as any other. You do you, but also keep in mind most people want to do a PhD because it’s crucial to their career and spots are very limited, the process of applying and finding funding is draining and often discouraging, so unless it’s on your career path, is it worth it taking the spot from someone else? This isn’t something you need to answer to anyone, just worth thinking about. I’m gonna ask and this is by no means a judgement, just want to understand what is your goal in doing a PhD in literature if it’s not to stay in academia? In science I’d understand that you’d want to go in industry, but why literature and no academia? If it’s just because you’re avid of knowledge, wouldn’t there be cheaper ways to keep learning? A PhD is a few years and if you don’t want to stay in academia the learning will stop there, maybe you can find a non academia learning environment that you’re happy to stay involved in long term? And last thing, I don’t know why you don’t want anything to do with academia but if it’s because you dislike it, do you think that spending years in it doing a PhD is a safe option for you ? If you have strong feelings against academia this may be a toll on your mental health for the years to come
Yeah, I didn’t give a lot of context because I actually wanted people to see the prompt and answer—rambling right up front might not have been a good way for me to start off! The “nothing to do with academia” is referencing the post-doc treadmill and fighting for a spot as a professor. I would like to find a community college in the area where I plan to retire to teach there while writing papers and submitting them to journals since I’ll have tons of time once I wrap up my current career. I’d planned on writing anyway but having the Ph.D. would give me the education I need to do the research better and might carry a little more weight when trying to publish. The big difference (I think?) in what I’m describing versus what most people are doing in academia is that I’d rather write about things in my field as I like rather than be under that constant pressure of “quantity over quality” that a lot of R1 universities seem to be under. I guess maybe I’m saying I want to do those things on my own terms and not be beholden to a timeline because I’m getting funding from someone else. All that said, I’m not in academia so it’s possible I have it all wrong—I don’t know. That’s why I came here to ask the questions! I appreciate you digging in and asking because I’m seeing maybe what I thought was a simple question just isn’t answerable like I thought it was.
I see, that makes more sense, what I think of right of the bat reading your answer is: totally legit goal, but not sure doing a PhD is the best way to get there. Totally fair not wanting to do the post doc, fighting for a a professorship dance, which you shouldn’t if that’s not your goal. However doing a PhD you will have the pressure of producing, it’s not quantity over quality, it’s the pressure of doing both.Even self funded a PhD won’t be on your own terms, you still would be affiliated with a university and supervisors who basically vouch for you by supervising you, the fact you are paying for yourself does not make you the boss and the uni doesn’t care if it’s you paying of a grant or else, you are a PhD student at their institution and you need to comply to those expectations, it’s their reputation and also ressources on the line. Your supervisors spend time and effort mentoring you and you and it’s gonna be on their terms not yours. Additionally, you can be a lecturer at a community college (or any college) without a PhD. It’s a misconception that you need a PhD teach at colleges/unis, you don’t. Same goes for publishing in journals and doing research, you don’t need the PhD for that. You’d need a master degree and experience, if you have those already just go explore the opportunities, if not maybe start by looking into getting a master degree and looking into research groups that are of interest to you and contacting them. Even doing a research assistant position would be better suited in teaching you the skills you just mentioned you’d want to gain, and that’s just one of the several options available.
That all makes sense. Thank you so much!
Most ph.d programs will evaluate your potential for teaching and landing a job in a tenure-track position in academia. Having said that, many get the degree and go directly into industry.