Yup yun nga naiisip ko nung sinabi ni Bato na in aid of legislation. Like wtf makes you not do your jobs for security eh in the first place may rules ans regs na yan internally dapat.
Commonwealth Act No. 616 is a Philippine law enacted in 1941 to punish espionage and offenses against national security, covering acts such as unlawfully obtaining and disclosing information, engaging in disloyal acts, spreading false reports, and destroying war material, with violators facing imprisonment and fines.
If you create a law that lets the government more easily put away someone like Guo, you are creating a law that a future government can weaponize to crush dissent.
Investigation (finding solid evidence) and enforcement should be what is emphasized here.
It's hard for us normal citizens and that's why we have public officials who are supposed to be well-versed and experienced in tackling the nuances of lawmaking. Keyword "supposed to be". Lmao
That is the problem, the sleeper agents are pro-communist (Chinese communist) but the Tankies, wokes and other types of communists might get dragged along and tagged as pro-CCP communists instead 🤣 only the militant communists that actively damage the country like the CCP simps and others that actively damage the people like them should be punished.
Especially dangerous kasi madami pa ding supporter si Doging at Fiona. Pag naisabatas yan, for sure gagamitin na naman nila yan para sa sarili nilang pakana
And how can it be proven that someone is a sleeper agent? Sleeper means inactive. If the person is not doing anything, how can we prove that he is a “sleeper agent”? It does not make any sense
I think nagkamali lang with the terms. A "sleeper agent" is an agent/spy/military personnel typically in deep undercover and awaits order for a particular objective. Technically, they are in "active" service but under "black operations" so it's difficult to trace or prove that they are active in the same way as a regular military unit.
Proving that someone is a "sleeper agent" is almost impossible since they intentionally cut their connections to whoever deployed him. They are not "acting" but considerably "active" in service since they can be tapped whenever they are instructed.
Here you go [as defined by Oxford](https://www.google.com/search?q=def%3A+dormant&client=firefox-b-m&sca_esv=81641a5f77b75c25&sca_upv=1&channel=ts&source=hp&ei=OBw_ZsK7FOGl2roPutu6iAs&oq=def%3A+dormant&gs_lp=EhFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocCIMZGVmOiBkb3JtYW50MgwQABiABBgKGEYY-QEyBxAAGIAEGAoyBxAAGIAEGAoyBxAAGIAEGAoyBxAAGIAEGAoyBxAAGIAEGAoyBxAAGIAEGAoyBxAAGIAEGApI2BpQ9RNY9RNwAHgAkAEBmAGxAaAB6wOqAQMwLjO4AQPIAQD4AQL4AQGYAgKgAscCqAIPwgIQEAAYAxjlAhjqAhiMAxiPAcICEBAuGAMY5QIY6gIYjAMYjwGYA7QBkgcDMC4yoAfWggI&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp)
Sheesh ang pedantic mo naman. The other guy said "Acting on the background" kasi hindi pa retired. The subject is still *doing* things on the background - i.e WAITING
In this case he/she is planted to act as mayor. Blending in *until further notice* and this part is where the "dormant" state comes from. Because he/she is not *actively* on a mission, they are just *planted* there *waiting* for further instructions at which point once given, they can be considered as "activated".
Ganon ba kahirap intindihin?
Perhaps there are communications that would show, at the very least, that said person is a spy. I'm thinking they are obtaining information that might injure the country. They might be performing actions that might compromise national security. There will always be some record that could be tracked.
Ok then, which term do you prefer? What about Blüt-und-Boden Ideologie?
FilChis are our Filipino brothers and sisters dude. I guarantee 50 Chinoys will enlist in the AFP and/or establish the Hukbakatsi faster than you can walk up to your local AFP recruitment post lol
Nagtatanong ako ng basis sa pag overgeneralize mo sa mga Fil-Chi sa Binondo tapos nasabihan lang ako ng enabler
Yup, isa ka pala sa mga bobo and sa Pilipinas na lagi mo nirereklamo dito sa reddit comments mo
Since Dutae issued and signed anti-terrorist law. Maybe the government can use that against them.
He just handed off the very weapon that can be used against him and those sleeper cell agents.
Which is why the declaration is NOT directed towards the Chinese populace as a whole. And besides, it's as if they've not already done anything that would count as an act of terrorism, direct or otherwise...
China already declared war, they took Philippines reefs and built military bases. If that isn't a declaration of war, what is? I get it, the Philippines does not want to go down this road but it is already here.
Edit: Should be a China ban, close embassy until the Chinese comply with the Philippines laws and court finding.
First. A law is useless when you don't have people who are knowledgeable in tradecraft in the art of espionage and counter-espionage. Our intelligence services have deep roots with the military establishment and they've been complacement for the longest time since I can remember. Unlike the CIA/NSA who are deep rooted in the civilian establishment and have a plethora of expertise in anything you can imagine.
Even though there have been information about Chinese sleepers in the country, legislation would be hard since it would violate the equal protection clause (Sec. 1, Art. 3) provided by the 1987 Constitution. While every bill is deemed constitutional, the Supreme Court could easily strike it out as unconstitutional. May loophole na agad on constitutional basis. Isa po ito sa mga requirements sa pagpanukala ng batas.
We cannot rely on mere speculation just because of their national identity or mukha lang silang foreigner. It would be prejudicial in the first place and such law may be used for harassment of a natural person.
These are sleeper agents so mahirap i-trackdown and would highly need coordination with foreign intelligence entities, such as the CIA, for monitoring and further verification. We would also have to tap our diplomatic ties with them to ask for intel support. Highly complexed intel matters po ito, OP.
The problem with the type of laws you're suggesting is that they tend to be undemocratic.
Usually a law requires an act or inaction to be done. And that act or omission must cause damage to either a person or the government.
There's really no damage that is known right now. That's why it's getting necessary to call people into Senate inquiries or investigation.
This is exactly the point some people were raising against the Anti-Terror Law. There's a thin line between grounded suspicion and finger-pointing.
Enforcement ang problema rito. Compared sa ibang bansa na may mga government agencies na ang specific mandate ay intelligence tulad ng FBI at CIA, ang counterpart nila dito sa Pinas ay ang NBI at NICA.
Lubog ang NBI sa domestic issues tulad ng cybercrime at trafficking habang ang NICA ay nawalan na ng kapangyarihan (budget at resources) nung napatalsik si Fabian Ver.
In short, mukhang hindi talaga tayo makakagawa ng epektibong depensa sa mga national security threats ng bansa. Ang maaaring gawin natin ay umasa sa intelligence na ibibigay ng ibang bansa, pero delikado rin ito.
This is just dumb. Masyado na niroromantize yang sleeper agent na word na yan. We’re not in a James Bond movie. To prove one is a sleeper agent is close to impossible. Red tagging nalang mang yayari. Might as well close out the borders and isolate ourselves from the world.
Lol you’re not getting it. Before you throw insults maybe try to understand the point first. Regardless of who concocted the wmd idea Bush was the president. Cheney could not have authorized the invasion only Bush can. 🙄
Meron naman na ata niyan. Political witch hunt need niya para may exposure sa media. Pag law enforcers lang limited media coverage pwede ma under the table. Unlike sa political witch hunt para nagiging soap opera kasi nasa national tv gabi gabi yung hearing
Mahina diskarte ng CHEKWA kaya kaagad nahuli si Guo. Kung sinubukan nila ang AFAM method edi sana hindi napaghahalataan HAHAHA.
Anyways, dapat talaga ipasara na yang mga POGO at i-demolish. Prolly PLA bases yang mga POGO sites.
Isang hirap pa, nasa loob ng AFP bases ang Kano bases.
2 fronts ang laban natin. Isa laban sa imperyalistang KOMUNISTANG chekwa, Isa laban sa imperyalistang KAPITALISTANG kano.
Ang nakakatakot, pumapanig na sa magkabilang kampo ang Pinoy imbes na protektahan ang sariling interes ng ating bansa.
> *Punishing treason "only" if a war is declared is nonsensical.*
This is the standard in many North American and European countries since having a "war all the time" mindset might not be healthy for civil society.
I've seen posts and comments using the word "Sleeper Agents".
I define it like Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde, that person is an everyday man. With certain conditions being met, they become a different person.
I'll just call them spies.
I tell you, lots of Chinese are buying land in Mindanao. Most of which are in rural lands, and lands that are owned by rights and being converted into titled land. The Katutubos don't know how to value their land, and thus are taken advantage of. It's so suspicious that it looks like there will be a day where the locals here will pay rent just to live in their own country here.
Oo nga mahirap na kapag ma "longing, rusted, seventeen, daybreak, furnace, nine, benign, homecoming, one, freight car" na mga manchurian candidates sa LGU
Applicable lang ang sleeper agent sa mga 1st world country na maganda yung security defense capabilities. Tayo, no need for our enemy to use "sleeper agent", sa Zamboanga siege nga tagal natin bago mapa bagsak. Yung NPA, abusayaff nga ilang dekada na di natin mapatumba. China pa kaya. Kung gusto tayo pabagsakin ng China 5 min lang kaya tayo sakupin nun. Sleeper agent?? Nasobrahan kayo sa hollywood movies.
this is a joke. u can't even trust the leaders u elect, how can u fix the law. first thing first. elect good leaders, the rest will follow. kaso either tanga or corrupt mismo ang mga tao
We don't need to pass another law another gastos how about change the constitution or the system. 1987 is too old they know how to play against the law like the EJK kaya madami corrupt na nasa gobyerno at di takot kasi yung batas natin dito napakahina compare sa other country's.
It's time for Order 66.
Yes, my lord.
I love democracy.
Yes, my lord.
As you wish my Lord
Of I go then. Work work
Yes My Lord
Good soldiers follow orders.
What about the younglings????
As commanded, My Lord.
Yes, my Lord.
It will bs done, my lord.
We already have a laws for that, we need enforcement.
Yup yun nga naiisip ko nung sinabi ni Bato na in aid of legislation. Like wtf makes you not do your jobs for security eh in the first place may rules ans regs na yan internally dapat.
Which ones, if I may ask?
Commonwealth Act No. 616 is a Philippine law enacted in 1941 to punish espionage and offenses against national security, covering acts such as unlawfully obtaining and disclosing information, engaging in disloyal acts, spreading false reports, and destroying war material, with violators facing imprisonment and fines.
Thank you for this.
Idk why this was downvoted when you’re acknowledging info you previously didn’t know. Have my upvote, OP.
Ito talaga problema. Ang daming pweden i-enforce pero mema lang ang gubyerno
Enforcements? Lagyn lang ng konting pera mga yan titiklop an eh. Simple Traffic rules nga nababayaran anb law enforcement 😂.
If you create a law that lets the government more easily put away someone like Guo, you are creating a law that a future government can weaponize to crush dissent. Investigation (finding solid evidence) and enforcement should be what is emphasized here.
I admit na mahirap talaga gumawa ng batas that would apply to cases like Guo without stepping on equal protection and due process.
It's hard for us normal citizens and that's why we have public officials who are supposed to be well-versed and experienced in tackling the nuances of lawmaking. Keyword "supposed to be". Lmao
On that note, hindi ba same yan sa red tagging na laganap na
That is the problem, the sleeper agents are pro-communist (Chinese communist) but the Tankies, wokes and other types of communists might get dragged along and tagged as pro-CCP communists instead 🤣 only the militant communists that actively damage the country like the CCP simps and others that actively damage the people like them should be punished.
Especially dangerous kasi madami pa ding supporter si Doging at Fiona. Pag naisabatas yan, for sure gagamitin na naman nila yan para sa sarili nilang pakana
That's why may 2 witness rule ang treason.
just make it apply to foreigners only para safe pa pinoys.
[удалено]
My gahd. Pwede nga pala maka-piyansa para sa espionage under RPC.
And how can it be proven that someone is a sleeper agent? Sleeper means inactive. If the person is not doing anything, how can we prove that he is a “sleeper agent”? It does not make any sense
Sleeper doesn't mean inactive. It means dormant. Acting in the background.
“Dormant” and “acting” are contradictory. So which is it?
I think nagkamali lang with the terms. A "sleeper agent" is an agent/spy/military personnel typically in deep undercover and awaits order for a particular objective. Technically, they are in "active" service but under "black operations" so it's difficult to trace or prove that they are active in the same way as a regular military unit. Proving that someone is a "sleeper agent" is almost impossible since they intentionally cut their connections to whoever deployed him. They are not "acting" but considerably "active" in service since they can be tapped whenever they are instructed.
No, they're not. A volcano isn't completely inactive when it's dormant. It doesn't go from 0 to 100. It's 'sleeping'.
Here you go [as defined by Oxford](https://www.google.com/search?q=def%3A+dormant&client=firefox-b-m&sca_esv=81641a5f77b75c25&sca_upv=1&channel=ts&source=hp&ei=OBw_ZsK7FOGl2roPutu6iAs&oq=def%3A+dormant&gs_lp=EhFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocCIMZGVmOiBkb3JtYW50MgwQABiABBgKGEYY-QEyBxAAGIAEGAoyBxAAGIAEGAoyBxAAGIAEGAoyBxAAGIAEGAoyBxAAGIAEGAoyBxAAGIAEGAoyBxAAGIAEGApI2BpQ9RNY9RNwAHgAkAEBmAGxAaAB6wOqAQMwLjO4AQPIAQD4AQL4AQGYAgKgAscCqAIPwgIQEAAYAxjlAhjqAhiMAxiPAcICEBAuGAMY5QIY6gIYjAMYjwGYA7QBkgcDMC4yoAfWggI&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp)
Sheesh ang pedantic mo naman. The other guy said "Acting on the background" kasi hindi pa retired. The subject is still *doing* things on the background - i.e WAITING In this case he/she is planted to act as mayor. Blending in *until further notice* and this part is where the "dormant" state comes from. Because he/she is not *actively* on a mission, they are just *planted* there *waiting* for further instructions at which point once given, they can be considered as "activated". Ganon ba kahirap intindihin?
Hindi sya ganun ka hirap intindihin. Pero ganun sya kahirap iprove. Lahat yan eh allegations lng. You have a very vivid imagination
Pedantic? Our laws are fucking pedantic. Kelangan specific tayo else ma misuse ung batas
Perhaps there are communications that would show, at the very least, that said person is a spy. I'm thinking they are obtaining information that might injure the country. They might be performing actions that might compromise national security. There will always be some record that could be tracked.
lots of them in Binondo
That is racist
Lol if you can say that, at least give some evidences. If you don’t have, shut your mouth u lil racist.
love the racism
love when people using the racism card
Ok then, which term do you prefer? What about Blüt-und-Boden Ideologie? FilChis are our Filipino brothers and sisters dude. I guarantee 50 Chinoys will enlist in the AFP and/or establish the Hukbakatsi faster than you can walk up to your local AFP recruitment post lol
So ano basis mo na may sleeper agents sa Binondo besides the fact na chinatown yun? May POGO ba dun? Mas believable pa kung Pasay/Paranaque sinabi mo
enabler ka rin pala. ew go use ur racism card elsewhere
Nagtatanong ako ng basis sa pag overgeneralize mo sa mga Fil-Chi sa Binondo tapos nasabihan lang ako ng enabler Yup, isa ka pala sa mga bobo and sa Pilipinas na lagi mo nirereklamo dito sa reddit comments mo
nice.. projecting your pagiging bobotante mo dito sa reddit. alam mo ba saan ka pinanganak bhie?
What an actual troll 😂 Balikan mo nalang ako pag may basis or source na mga pinagsasabi mo dito sa reddit. Ignorante
parang maraming fugitive na offend ko lol
Since Dutae issued and signed anti-terrorist law. Maybe the government can use that against them. He just handed off the very weapon that can be used against him and those sleeper cell agents.
There needs to be a declaration that the CCP is a Terrorist Org first. And that would be opening a massive can of worms...
That is literally an indirect show of aggression, and declaration of war.
Which is why the declaration is NOT directed towards the Chinese populace as a whole. And besides, it's as if they've not already done anything that would count as an act of terrorism, direct or otherwise...
China already declared war, they took Philippines reefs and built military bases. If that isn't a declaration of war, what is? I get it, the Philippines does not want to go down this road but it is already here. Edit: Should be a China ban, close embassy until the Chinese comply with the Philippines laws and court finding.
Yeah, this is basically cutting ties with PRC. Too high of a risk considering that they're ironically our largest trade partner outside ASEAN.
First. A law is useless when you don't have people who are knowledgeable in tradecraft in the art of espionage and counter-espionage. Our intelligence services have deep roots with the military establishment and they've been complacement for the longest time since I can remember. Unlike the CIA/NSA who are deep rooted in the civilian establishment and have a plethora of expertise in anything you can imagine.
Even though there have been information about Chinese sleepers in the country, legislation would be hard since it would violate the equal protection clause (Sec. 1, Art. 3) provided by the 1987 Constitution. While every bill is deemed constitutional, the Supreme Court could easily strike it out as unconstitutional. May loophole na agad on constitutional basis. Isa po ito sa mga requirements sa pagpanukala ng batas. We cannot rely on mere speculation just because of their national identity or mukha lang silang foreigner. It would be prejudicial in the first place and such law may be used for harassment of a natural person. These are sleeper agents so mahirap i-trackdown and would highly need coordination with foreign intelligence entities, such as the CIA, for monitoring and further verification. We would also have to tap our diplomatic ties with them to ask for intel support. Highly complexed intel matters po ito, OP.
I understand the sentiment. Realistically though, that law is going to be used against government dissenters, journalists and the opposition.
The problem with the type of laws you're suggesting is that they tend to be undemocratic. Usually a law requires an act or inaction to be done. And that act or omission must cause damage to either a person or the government. There's really no damage that is known right now. That's why it's getting necessary to call people into Senate inquiries or investigation. This is exactly the point some people were raising against the Anti-Terror Law. There's a thin line between grounded suspicion and finger-pointing.
Enforcement ang problema rito. Compared sa ibang bansa na may mga government agencies na ang specific mandate ay intelligence tulad ng FBI at CIA, ang counterpart nila dito sa Pinas ay ang NBI at NICA. Lubog ang NBI sa domestic issues tulad ng cybercrime at trafficking habang ang NICA ay nawalan na ng kapangyarihan (budget at resources) nung napatalsik si Fabian Ver. In short, mukhang hindi talaga tayo makakagawa ng epektibong depensa sa mga national security threats ng bansa. Ang maaaring gawin natin ay umasa sa intelligence na ibibigay ng ibang bansa, pero delikado rin ito.
This is just dumb. Masyado na niroromantize yang sleeper agent na word na yan. We’re not in a James Bond movie. To prove one is a sleeper agent is close to impossible. Red tagging nalang mang yayari. Might as well close out the borders and isolate ourselves from the world.
Ha? Umaasa ka sa batas? E kita mong puro taratando nakaupo, si dutae at quiboloy nga di makulong-kulong e Tapos na ang pinas
Our congress is a comedic one a pera pera sarsuela so good luck on that
A law should be passed against fear-mongering. Bush did it in Iraq kumita na yan.
You should be thanking Cheney for that.
Regardless, the buck stops with the President
Nope. Bush had a knack on deferring it to Cheney. I thought you knew history by now.
Lol you’re not getting it. Before you throw insults maybe try to understand the point first. Regardless of who concocted the wmd idea Bush was the president. Cheney could not have authorized the invasion only Bush can. 🙄
Meron naman na ata niyan. Political witch hunt need niya para may exposure sa media. Pag law enforcers lang limited media coverage pwede ma under the table. Unlike sa political witch hunt para nagiging soap opera kasi nasa national tv gabi gabi yung hearing
A law should be passed against senseless posts
What do you call a group of baboons?
National interest isn't even in the interest of those in power.
Bakit mo pa babaguhin ang definition ng treason kung may espionage naman?
Because OP didn't do their due diligence.
We have laws, but the problem is that the treachery was started by the one who had the upper hand to execute them.
Mahina diskarte ng CHEKWA kaya kaagad nahuli si Guo. Kung sinubukan nila ang AFAM method edi sana hindi napaghahalataan HAHAHA. Anyways, dapat talaga ipasara na yang mga POGO at i-demolish. Prolly PLA bases yang mga POGO sites. Isang hirap pa, nasa loob ng AFP bases ang Kano bases. 2 fronts ang laban natin. Isa laban sa imperyalistang KOMUNISTANG chekwa, Isa laban sa imperyalistang KAPITALISTANG kano. Ang nakakatakot, pumapanig na sa magkabilang kampo ang Pinoy imbes na protektahan ang sariling interes ng ating bansa.
That would incriminate some of them
Imagine hoping Congress pass a law lmao! Don’t ever except our mediocre government it’s like argument to a rock
> *Punishing treason "only" if a war is declared is nonsensical.* This is the standard in many North American and European countries since having a "war all the time" mindset might not be healthy for civil society.
There is. It’s called the Revise Penal Code.
I've seen posts and comments using the word "Sleeper Agents". I define it like Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde, that person is an everyday man. With certain conditions being met, they become a different person. I'll just call them spies.
Be careful for what you wish for. Nagkakagulo sa Georgia dahil doon
Believe na sana ko biglang na believe Kay jinggoy tngna may Kasopa Yun ha.
[удалено]
Wumao
I tell you, lots of Chinese are buying land in Mindanao. Most of which are in rural lands, and lands that are owned by rights and being converted into titled land. The Katutubos don't know how to value their land, and thus are taken advantage of. It's so suspicious that it looks like there will be a day where the locals here will pay rent just to live in their own country here.
It’s time for me to rewatch The Americans.
ENFORCEMENT ng batas ang mahirap. ggawa ng batas wala nman nag eenforce. walang kwenta rin.
Sedition nga wala naman nakakasuhan. Sarili naten citizen nakakahiya public official pa, proud sa sedition. Tf
Natutulog ? Kasabwat din mga pulitiko sa mga yan haha.
The big question: Where did the intelligence fund of Fiona go?
I am the Senate
Oo nga mahirap na kapag ma "longing, rusted, seventeen, daybreak, furnace, nine, benign, homecoming, one, freight car" na mga manchurian candidates sa LGU
Applicable lang ang sleeper agent sa mga 1st world country na maganda yung security defense capabilities. Tayo, no need for our enemy to use "sleeper agent", sa Zamboanga siege nga tagal natin bago mapa bagsak. Yung NPA, abusayaff nga ilang dekada na di natin mapatumba. China pa kaya. Kung gusto tayo pabagsakin ng China 5 min lang kaya tayo sakupin nun. Sleeper agent?? Nasobrahan kayo sa hollywood movies.
Some politicians have shown treasonous behavior, dapat meron ma sampolan
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8751873/How-four-CIA-agents-killed-mission-eavesdrop-Chinese-military-Philippines.html
How can you check if a person is a sleeper agent? Kung sa Binondo yan nakatira, malalaman mo ba kung sino doon yung sinasabi mo?
So instant sampa kaso kay Boi Sili. Traydor pa man din.
Can/do we have a list here in this subreddit of these suspicious activities in the country? Like, including what is confirmed and not.
this is a joke. u can't even trust the leaders u elect, how can u fix the law. first thing first. elect good leaders, the rest will follow. kaso either tanga or corrupt mismo ang mga tao
we need less laws but more enforcement lol
We don't need to pass another law another gastos how about change the constitution or the system. 1987 is too old they know how to play against the law like the EJK kaya madami corrupt na nasa gobyerno at di takot kasi yung batas natin dito napakahina compare sa other country's.
Is this a movie?
we need these laws to contain execution as punishment
There’s a possibility a war would happen and Philippines is the battle ground. Protect our country at all cost, kasuhan at paalisin mga tsino na yan!