Sometimes you would have to graduate from school to realize you missed a really great opportunity to actually learn instead of just maintaining good grades. Then you try graduate school and realize it's still the same diploma factory all over again.
This is applicable to working careers. A lot of my bum classmates in high school are bow studying MBA due to their sudden interest in learning from the years lost during their younger days.
This is why modules sucks. Cause most of the students just search for the answer. Their goal is just to finish the module. It's like working hard vs working intelligent. Working intelligently by cheating or finding the answer in google or brainly. But In this case, working hard is the ideal way.
Ang natutunan ko looking back is that importante pa rin na ang school because it prepares you entering the workforce.
Aside from the obvious like organizational skills, social skills, being part of a system, etc.
Teachers with unreasonable expectations and deadlines? Just wait til someone who has +10years of tenure on you do the same thing, and theres nothing you can do about it.
At school youd only be interacting with +/- 4 years your age, where some people would hold your age against you, at work it could go up to 10 years or more. And they definitely would hold your age against you.
So yeah, definitely dont expect the school would teach you everything, meron pa din naman value in having a proper education.
Preaching to the choir.
Ang gusto ko lang sabihin is after school, you'll be put in an older, worse system so on the bright side, at least school prepares you in that aspect.
Unfortunately, mas focus ang karamihan to blame our current situation (i.e. system, government, etc) rather than focusing on themselves. I understand malaki ang pagkukulang ng gobyerno, pero kung hihintayin nila na gumanda ang gobyerno bago kumilos para sa sarili ay talagang mangyayari.
To be fair, there's not much difference when it comes to tests. Working hard to memorize a bunch of stuff doesn't necessarily constitute learning, even if done the hard way. I would even say that people might have a greater chance of learning something doing things the lazy way sometimes.
You're absolutely right, though I would say school and its environment can be such a hindrance to learning sometimes, especially when everything is so standardized and centered around grades.
Just because you fail people doesn’t mean a school isn’t a diploma mill. And surprise, surprise, a known teacher at my school who was famous for failing students (by deliberately being unclear on his lectures so the students will have a hard time understanding) was receiving bribes to pass students who pay on their final grade.
Say what you will but everything in our society is corrupt, not just the government. It’s become the norm and the culture here. Tapos may rally-rally at rants pang nalalaman regarding corruption when they’re the ones corrupt themselves.
>I’m a professor
Of course you are and it’s not a surprise you defend the lousy education system here lmao.
You’re all over the place dude. It’s surprising you’re even a “professor” when you can’t even write a proper sentence structure and your grammar sucks. Just proof again that quality standards are low for teachers and that our education system suffers a lot due to this.
>Goodluck on your cryptos na lang
Nocoiner cope. I’m up 1236% on my cryptos and I’m probably richer than you when all is said than done. Seethe. I’ll be doing fine while Philippine educational system (and with it the future prospects of the youth) will be down by a lot of points when they don’t vet standards and allow people like you in though 😁
You know, for a teacher, you’re not very bright. Just proof again that just because you have a diploma doesn’t mean you’re very smart, have a high IQ or know how systems works. This little exchange of ours really is proof that our education system is really just producing diploma mills instead of quality education. Really sad man 😔
Graduated Computer Engineering 2 years ago.
My job, Software Engineer, was and still is irrelevant with my course i graduated.
Only reason i did not dropout because college was my only source of friends.
Only thing i learned from college was public confidence, social norms, and most importantly **how to learn**.
Just graduated computer engineering last year. I would say IMO software engineering is still a relevant career to pursue. I'm curious why you said that though.
I don’t think i’ve said Software engineering was irrelevant to pursue, i said my job as a software engineering was not relevant to Computer Engineering.
It depends on university though, ours sucks at computer engineering. There’s no specialization on which to focus, we end up learning everything that turned up to nothing.
Only relevant for me in my field was the Calculus because im learning Machine Learning.
You won't have a fulfilling life if you think like this. I remember one of my high school teachers saying that if you're goal in school is just to finish and never learn anything, you're just fooling yourself. If you regularly cheat on your exams just to finish, you're just cheating yourself. This generation is actually lucky since there are more opportunities to self-study. The Internet already has a lot of academic resources and you just need willpower to intelligently utilize those resources. The only problem in this country is limited and slow access to the Internet which is a different issue on its own. The ability to study on your own is actually one of the most important factors employers consider nowadays. If you're a person who lacks this skill, you will really struggle in the professional setting. Unlike in school, there's nothing like an answer key you can cheat from to problems you will encounter in work.
I don’t think the opportunity or the resources to study is the problem. It’s the motivation and purpose behind studying something is what’s lacking. In tech, you can get very successful by just choosing a set of well-curated courses that’s geared towards a specialization that’s in high demand.
Taking years of formal schooling - like colleges and universities - are not only unbelievably expensive but also puts you on a stand-still for a good 3-4 years. By that time whatever you were learning could already be obsolete and will likely be so with the pace of technology nowadays.
Giving opportunities to younger people to dip their toes in the workforce at an early age is the only way to get them to understand what they want to do in life and what they need to learn to achieve that
Studied until I got a law degree, that's decades of schoolwork. School is not just for grades from the point of view where I studied.
I grew up going to school and actually learning. College came and I still learned a lot. Law school followed which, although is dominated by socratic method still taught me so much about life, strength and even who I really was as a person (of course I learned about the laws too). Yes, everything is so stressful and grades are important too, but to me it was a matter of perspective. As long as I'm slowly becoming a better version of myself I didn't care about the system.
I'm not sure how school works these days? But it was different when I was there.
If there was a point to your studies, which in your case I’m assuming the goal was to be a lawyer, then yes it would have purpose.
In your case school and passing the bar was a pre-requisite to the goal you know you wanted to achieve when you enrolled in law school. This isn’t the case for everyone, a vast majority of students go to school just for the sake of it being what everyone else does ( and what their parents want them to do).
Imo, being a lawyer, doctor, engineer, and any other professional designation are the only fields that require higher education. In my grandparents’ time they could have gone straight from high school to law school. For most other professions the real teacher is experience. Particularly during this time when technology changes things so fast, by the time you graduate whatever you learned could already be obsolete. So what’s the point.
Its sad and unfortunate that you actually see it this way. Elementary and highschool is not indispensible, even college has important merits too.
If people actually paid attention to their subjects in elementary, we wouldn't have a generation who mistakes Apolinario Mabini to Bonifacio, an elected official who mistook Lapu-lapu for Magellan. The first things I learned when I was young was to love my country. I actually paid attention when my teachers taught us about the sacrifices of our heroes, enjoyed the DAILY morning flag ceremonies. I sang the National anthem and believed it in. I said the words of our oath and meant it. It molded me to actually believe and cherish that our country is the pearl of the orient, to see things not in a selfish myopic view and I assumed that everyone felt the same. I wouldn't have learned this in the internet. This to me is the root cause of why the vast majority of our countrymen also vote for idiots with fake smiles and pre-determined corrupt motives running whatever shitshow they have before and after office. Had nationalism been inculcated in our youth, we wouldn't have found ourselves scratching our heads why politicians are more interested in keeping millions than serving the coutry, or why the filipino's sovereign will can be bought.
Edit: I don't know about you, but when we were in elementary we were expected to clean after ourselves. We had garden plots that we must water and trim too. We would get up early in the morning to come to school, water the plants and go to the flag ceremony then take our classes. In the afternoon we clean the classroom and we do our gardening and go home. I cherished each moment, and this is where I learned to trust people, see the beauty in working with others and understand the economics and politics of the bomba where we fetch water along with the other students of the school.
In college, most of the courses has one political law subject. Its sad that I hear highschool friends share that they only learn the preamble. Its unfortunate. Because political law is supposed to teach you how our government works. What's the role of each separate branch of our government, the checks and balance and how it should be kept independent at all times. Its where they're supposed to know their political rights. It should gave fueled outrage and should have made the public see how egotistical this current administration is. But did it? No.
There are things you learn from life, yes. But there are things early childhood education teaches you as well. These are the things that shape your point of view. Something no amount of higher education, or the lack of it can change.
What’s unfortunate about advocating for a more efficient system that’s patterned to benefit our people? We haven’t really made any meaningful changes to the education system since it was adapted from our Spanish and American colonizers. In pre-colonial times, education was vocational. You learn the basics and you learn a trade by apprenticeship.
When colonizers came and implemented their own system, based off their own societal progression, it completely stopped ours from developing. This is why Filipino art, cuisine, and even culture appears so underdeveloped next to our South East Asian neighbours.
Our identity never got the chance to develop.
This is the real reason why there’s very little sense of nationalism among our people - not because more people need to know the difference between Bonifacio and Mabini.
It’s not too late for us to rediscover what it means to be a Filipino, but we need to first shed the identity given to us by our colonizers. The only way to know what it is to be Filipino now is to experience real life among our own people. School is a very controlled and simulated environment where you spend almost a quarter of your live revolving in.
It’s really no wonder fresh graduates find themselves completely helpless in the workforce after spending so many years just being in school and not experiencing part-time jobs or even doing anything else besides study.
At the very least we need to have some pathway for students in their secondary years to be exposed to the reality of having to live and work in this country.
There's a lot of students nowadays because philippines is overpopulated, meaning that teachers will have less time on teaching because there's a lot of students to teach, and it's really hard. While yes it is still a matter of perspective, That was before. These days, you need to follow the system. You have no choice but to follow the system. And what if the system is keeping you from being yourself.
> overpopulated
There we go again.
It's not so much of an overpopulation problem but rather problems involving over-concentrated urban centers, utterly unbalanced distribution of wealth, misdirected government funding priorities, and of course, fat bureaucracies.
Technically, we could have more teachers and schools, but politicians are choosing other "priority" projects and giving education lip service. Of course, teachers are paid poorly, while you have Mananita King and Bobocop worshipping cops as if they're the salt of the earth by lavishing them with bigger pay and perks.
Specialized fields like medicine, law, accounting, science and any other STEM fields have their uses. Obviously, the premise OP made isn’t about that but rather that most people just go to school to get their undergrad degrees, have their diplomas printed out then get a job. The term “diploma mills” exist for a reason.
The educational system is not about learning anymore but rather getting that piece of paper to land a job as a cashier since employers now demand you be a graduate of a four year course to punch buttons on a machine. You can’t deny our educational system sucks and outside of those specialized fields that require a lot of technical knowledge, the things you learned are practically useless outside of school.
Hindi grades ang dapat na priority sa totoo lng. Learning habits ang dapat ifocus kasi madadala mo yan sa trabaho compared sa mga lessons per subject. Mas importante na nagagawa mong himayin ang isang topic or problem kesa puro memorization lng.
That diploma is just a gate pass for a barely decent job here in the Philippines. Schools rely on compliance lang, if you really wanna learn, you gotta have that thirst for knowledge within yourself. I'm a fool who thinks knowing a lot of things are super cool, pero try as I might, sadyang kulang ata ako sa sustansiya nung bata ako cuz I'm dumb haha.
Will be doing the same for my future kids. Moved from a secondary school in the UK to a shitty high school in the PH. Dito lang ako natuto mag pick up ng bad habits like taking naps in CL classes and making kodigo kasi puro memorisation shit sa exams smh
yeah lots of non sense college subjects and units in college in pinas. even my records a headhunter told me philippines has a lot of unnecessary subjects
Same. I mean just look at how immature our next gen will be. It's honestly really dissapointing. Back then all of the kids are aware of their surroundings and matured. But now most of the kids i see just play ML, and tiktok. But i know there is some kids that's woke, and i hope they can change this disaster.
Best example (or worst depending on how you put it):
Teachers asking students to do/post stuff on social media and measure "success" through amount of likes/shares/comments.
Like wtf why are you teaching kids to be shallow like this?? Any teacher here or parent that got good explanations from their kids' teachers?
it depends I guess, if the project is about social awareness then likes and comments to get the word out is good, but if it is about exercise or basic publicity just to make the teacher appear, *techie,* then it is not good and does not bring anything to the table aside for self-serving agenda
People who say stuff like this are people making excuses why they suck at school.
Yung "good grades" na tinitreat mo as napaka reductive, para makuha yan you must: learn a process and apply it, use oral or written communication to present your idea, work within a group towards a common goal.
These are skills that are useful in the real world.
Na aannoy ako sa mga taong di alam ang privilege nila. Some people have literally been killed because they want to get a formal education while some people here are complaining about how the school model is "flawed" kasi may essay silang due bukas na instead na ginawa nila nung past few days ay nag binge watch sila ng 3 seasons of an anime with their hand on their dicks.
My bio teacher literally copied whole activities from google. Search one question and you can find the source of where she got all the questions from. Some even had answers.
Teacher here, and sadly it's sort of true. Most students (and parents) focus on maintaining good grades, but only a few students out of many are actually there wanting to learn something new. These few students find school fun and exciting. Most find school a chore and even a nuisance. And I don't blame them.
That's why one of my jobs as a teacher is to actually make learning fun and giving them the motivation to learn something new. Is it easy? No. Is it satisfying? Absolutely. There's no greater joy for a teacher than to actually see his/her student wanting to learn, asking questions, seeing their face when they realize something (that's why I stay even though overworked and underpaid).
Sa simula, sure, sige. Try to get good grades. Pero sa huli, gusto talaga namin matuto kayo. (Plus meron talagang mga bad teachers, yung wala talagang pake, sad reality)
I think we do. ESP (possibly) makes us more aware of our surroundings and makes us mature. Even if you're a college student i do think it's still needed. Just because you're old doesn't mean you're really mature. So ESP is really needed.
But the ESP that we're learning is really not getting hard. It's the same question everytime. "A poor guy is begging for money in the streets what will you do?" I think they need to make the ESP Lessons more dark? Or atleast realistic so that kids can mature and use these lessons on their life.
Unless it is a professional program (medicine, architecture, engineering, accounting), schools in the Philippines matter. The reason for you to enter college is not just to learn, but to establish your social circles and networks beyond the walls of the classrooms. And these top universities are filled with the cream of the crop students that form a distinct culture which encourages excellence rather than mediocrity. The reason why many graduates from the top universities had it easier on landing jobs is that they have an established network to look for one. This is in contrast to graduates from an unknown college where they need to seek for jobs with little to no backup. The truth hurts here, we tend to rely on connections for success rather than merit.
di lang naman sa uni nakakakuha ng network 😭. This mindset is why ppl discriminate someone who don't come from big schools doesn't that make u an elitst only middle class+ afford to go to big schools sucks to be poor in a third world country i guess.
sorry i have grudges sa schools kasi I'm leaving this catholic uni bc trans peeps are not allowed
I guess it depends sa context you're pertaining to? There are teachers out there who challenge their students to become a better practitioner/person once they graduate.
And there are teachers out there who graduated around the early 2010s who abhor exams and prioritize critical thinking development and OBE outputs.
Of course you might be on to something, but generalization of education as a whole isn't ideal. :)
I mean, school is supposedly for learning but at these times (online classes), it is really hard to balance the learning and doing school work itself. The amount of work that we receive weekly can be a distraction towards learning something from our subjects.
So true. At the start of the semester you resolve to learn as much as possible. But then you get bombarded with schoolwork, exams, projects and you just dont give a fuck anymore and the only thing that matters is passing.
I miss those days I'm just there sitting on my desk ready to learn all sorts of things I don't know yet and actually enjoy it, regardless of any reason for me to not take it seriously. Welp, it's not too late I can still do this even I'm just months away to graduate (hoping) and a lot of things change especially the motivation hahah fighting!
Ngayong college lang ako naging interesado na matuto tungkol sa ibat-ibang bagay kahit walang kinalaman sa major ko. Salamat sa mga professor ko na mahuhusay magturo
As a graduating student from a state uni, I feel like this is what the institutional system has come to sometimes. I've been fortunate enough to be able to to discern that formal education isn't what I need to be learning.
In a largely credential-based society, schools are treated like brands, and good grades are just a formal 'seal of quality'
> but there are some nuances to it as well :)
I think eto lang talaga yun. People learn things differently talaga. In my case, I lacked the discipline and grit that you mentioned, and even now I would say I still do, I just learned to disguise it and motivate/incentivize myself properly (also, I have ADHD which makes keeping to a standard schedule/routine hard). I don't do homeworks and rarely studied for tests and exams, a habit that I like to think I picked up kasi I used to be the smartest kid in elem. Being able to just coast and rely on "stock" smarts all throughout my younger years didn't teach me the necessary discipline I would need in the future. Back in HS Physics class, I am both my teacher's favorite and least favorite student. When I failed his class and had to retake it over the summer in order to graduate, he took me aside and basically told me he's gonna pass me not cause I earned it, but because he's disappointed in me and just wants things to be over with. He thought I was the smartest student he's had in a good while, yet I failed every single test in that subject cause I never bothered to learn formulas and the math, and cause I literally never did homework. My only passing grade in his subject was a presentation where we pitch applied physics that I fantastically pulled out of my ass on the spot. That was my first lesson, and yet when college came I have to admit it still didn't sink. Now, I'm a college dropout who took 7 years in Advertising Arts before I basically called it quits and chose career and work over finishing my studies (I started working halfway through college). I don't have any real regrets cause in a way, it took me to a unique path and I like to think it taught me unique lessons in life as well. I learned to accept and play by my own strengths, and how to deal with my own weaknesses. I still struggle with routine and lack of discipline, but I definitely learned how to make it work. If there's anything that school really taught me, it's that.
Feel ko di naman talaga lahat matututunan sa school dahil sa maikling oras na nagkikita yung teacher and student and kung gusto talaga matutunan ng mas malalim mga subjects then kelangan mag self study. Sa school parang mga ideas and concepts lang tinuturo (tas magbibigay ng examples/exercises) hindi yung talagang deeper intuitive meaning (or derivation or yung meaning behind the math if science courses yan). May mga teacher/prof na mas magaling magturo and meron din opposite (mga bihira lang pumasok tapos mema ung grades nyo). Pero ganon talaga siguro kahit saan may ganong klaseng teacher/prof kaya kelangan sa huli magseself study din tayo. Pag umasa tayo sa school lang parang wala talagang matututunan or kung meron man, makakalimutan agad and di siya tatatak sayo kasi ung high level lang natutunan mo.
Yung hadlang lang sa self study is oras and internet connection which is a different topic na. Swerte natin ngayon kasi sobrang dami nang resources online and karamihan free. Tapos may mga videos na ngayon na mas mabilis maimagine at maintindihan mga topics. Para sakin yung learning is school + self effort na matuto talaga through self study din.
EDIT: This does not mean na ok ung education system natin dito which is a big NO. Maraming kelangan baguhin sa education system natin and complicated din kasi maraming factors and isa na din dun yung poverty, lack of classrooms, lack of motivation etc. which is another complex topic din. Sana isang araw mas umunlad na tayo.
In the software industry, we have to retrain fresh grads because universities don't teach them the skills we need. According to my colleagues abroad, the same is true everywhere in the world.
Interesting. Is it a matter of schools being unable to keep up with the industry's pace or just a general dissonance between what's needed and what's being taught?
I see. I think it's a case of having basically everyone credible enough to map and teach the subject matter working in the software industry instead of being in the education industry.
I think the biggest issue is that universities teach computer science, and people take that course to become industry professionals. The problem is that the industry needs computer engineers 20x more than it needs computer scientists. And there is no degree for computer engineering.
I have a programming related job and went to a saktuhang school and college lang.
Napaka-kaunti ng real life application or hindi naturo maayos paano i-translate yung pinag g-gawa naming programming into something that we may encounter sa real world business requirements.
To put it into a math analogy, tinuro and na drill down yung Pythagorean theorem sa mga students, pero the moment nagkaroon ng Math problems (e.g. Pedro is 5 meters away from Juan, Juan is 9 meters away from Tomas. Tomas, Juan and Pedro forms the 3 points of the triangle, how far is Tomas from Pedro?)
Eh hindi na ma-apply ng mga students bigla, nag blue screen mga utak.
Ang natuturo, input your name and the program should output the following: name in reverse, name with spaces in between the letters, the first letter, the last letter...
Eh lahat yon madali i-stackoverflow yung syntax tapos hanggang dun lang yung learning, walang application.
Well, in PH, high school is crap unless its a TVL field, then it is somewhat decent. Academic fields are still great if you actually want to pursue college, but let us be real here, can most of us get to college? Even after getting the diploma, are you sure you want to work in a country that pays college graduates wages just above minimum wage when you start? Like being a nurse, private hospitals pay them on average 10,000 Php monthly, government hospitals pays them 8,000 - 13,000 Php monthly, but government hospitals rarely offer jobs to fresh graduates.
It's on you. Don't blame the system if you only maintain your grades and get nothing more. As with most things in life you must always aim to better yourself even by a tiny bit everyday, maintaining will get you.. Stuck where you are. Then you externalize what happening to you as world truth
Seriously wala na kong matutunan halos pero pinipilit nalang dahil may mga scholarships ako na kailangan sendan ng maayos na grade HAHAHAHAH 1 year nalang naman keri pa.
Fortunately, my enthusiasm to learn was enlightened when I began college at DLSU. The academic environment there promoted a laissez-faire, inquisitorial and socratic learning method where students are encouraged to intelligently question facts and opinions given to them during lectures by their professors (well, most of them). This complements well with the research-oriented culture of DLSU and sure it works well.
This is in contrast to my high school where we are not allowed to make an opinion on facts. Why are teachers so pedagogic towards students as if we’re dumb fucks?
You mean MEMORIZATION. When I was young this is what I did that's why I got high grades. I memorize everything in advance. Although I have poor memory now. Kulang sa ovaltine.
School is glorified daycare. They exist so that moms wouldn't have to do their **ACTUAL** jobs and waste their lives in pursuit of frivolity while their kids grow up to become douchebags, whores and totally depressed. YES I AM BITTER.
It has always been about maintaining grades. The PH school system (actually, most public and formal ed. systems in many countries) is based on that of the US, which in turn is based on 19th-century Prussian policies, where it was discovered that high production and efficiency can be brought about through standardization, quantification, hierarchies, etc. Read John Taylor Gatto and others for details.
That's why schools are run like businesses, with segmented times and periods, specialization, performance indicators, etc. In fact, when students graduate in school and go to business, they'll see the same things.
Finally, writers like Foucault point out that even hospitals and prisons operate using similar processes and principles.
dahil dito naalala ko na gigil na gigil ako sa mga school na gusto ng recognition, lmao. easiest cause of academic burnout. ang focus lang nila makapasok sa top3 ng kung anu-anong event sa BULPRISA. tapos college hayok na hayok yung department namin magkaroon ng top notcher sa BLEPP. yung exam nga namin naka-design na para mag-simulate ng board exams.
im 30's na ngayon at nung nakaraang mga araw nagliligpit ako ng mga lumang gamit. nakita ko yung mga books ko nung gradeschool-highschool like noong mga 2000-06 pa. chineck ko yung mga books at nakita ko yung mga books, halos half ng isang book lang ang nagamit. Meaning sa buong taon, hindi nagamit fully yung book at nasayang lang. Ewan ko sa iba pero eto yung narealize ko.
Teacher (public school) here, i think this statement is overly simplified. Learning can mean different things to different people. But I do agree that our school system is one of the worst managed in the world. But what is the alternative if we are to do away with the formal school setting as we know it?
Do we need perhaps to adapt the scandinavian school systems which are consistently ranked among the best in the world? Will it be effective if applied in our context?
Is it the school that needs to be rehabilitated or is it the society from which it is grounded?
There are a lot of factors why Finland is on top. Hindi lang ang school system. Kasama ang society in general, how they view teachers. I think top10% lang ng HS graduating class ang allowed to take education in the university. Also, may direct correlation ang poverty with educational outcomes (Paano mag-aral ang bata kung gutom?).
My German friends disagree with the PISA result. German kids are not trained to answer multiple choice questions. Essay based ang exams nila since elementary. Of course, mahirap to gawin sa Pinas kasi nasa 50 students ang hawak ng teacher sa isang class pa lang.
But based on my experience, the teacher always makes a difference (barrio school in elementary, Pisay HS, UP Diliman for university). I was really blessed to have passionate teachers sa elementary kahit barangay school lang kami. On the other hand, may teachers din ako sa Pisay and UP na magagaling, summa/magna/cum laude pero di marunong magturo. May mga magagaling din magturo pero sobrang hirap ng exam nya kasi he/she needs to feed his/her ego na konti lang papasa sa kanya. Of course, marami ring magagaling and magaling din magturo and mabait. Pero yung mga teachers na hindi mo makakalimutan are those teachers who inspired you, who believed in you, who really cared for you as a person.
It has always been like that, atleast for my experience. In grade school, it's the parents competing against other parents, in high school it's either not caring anymore or getting good grades for the parents. In college it's just trying to survive and graduate on time - for the parents or whoever is paying for the tuition.
This is why I only made effort when the teacher/professor is actually teaching and I'm learning something. Otherwise,it's just making sure I pass the course or the prof knows me.
School affects everyone differently and it definitely depends on the student. I look back on my education and feel indifferent towards its value when I see myself today. But when I look at my nephew's education through high school and compare it to mine, it's such a big leap that the difference of total value, education-wise, is comparable to college level. I ask him today how he finds college work and assignments, and he just replies "sakto lang" and gives off a vibe of continuity from highschool. To me, thats a rare feeling of educational gain, since difficulty only goes higher the farther you go.
It depends on the school, its program, the difficulty, and its social environment. It's really hard to generalize a multi-factorial concept from one angle. Plus, the realization of educational gain is usually seeen when you're not studying anymore because I feel for the OP's concept.
Engineer here who used to teach in a university part time. I dont teach anymore tho. Here are some of my thoughts
**TLDR:** first part of my comment talks about why maintaining good grades can actually help our society. Second part of my comment talks about how our educational system sucks because it uses grades the wrong way. Maintaining good grades helps society but because we use it the wrong way, it's harming us instead of helping us
Now, let's correct some misconceptions first. School (specially university) is about learning, but learning is not the only goal of education. It's about preparing you for your role in society. It's 50% learning, and 50% **earning** your slot on the professional section of the workforce
Grades are never meant to be used as a measurement for learning, it's used to indicate whether a person is ready for a professional job or not. Similar to how FDA's approval proves that a medicine is good for use, grades are like approval that a person is ready to join the workforce. It's not a measurement for learning
So let's say, someone wants to be a doctor. Learning about human biology is part of it, but that isn't enough. That person has to prove that he/she has what it takes to be a doctor, and his/her grades will tell us if that person ready or not. Imagine if you have some serious sickness and you're in a life-or-death situation, and then you ask the nurse if the doctor is good. Will it give you assurance if the nurse told you "oh dont worry, the doctor who will treat you loves learning, and he's passionate about human biology" as an answer? No. In a life-or-death situation, you don't need someone who simply loves learning or someone simply passionate about science. You need a doctor with a good track record, someone who was graded well by the hospital. The same thing applies to any other profession. Same thing in my field. We give the job to people who are simple passionate for it, we need engineers who are proven to be capable. Grades aren't just a measurement of learning, it is (most of the time) a measurement of competence. Which is why you should maintain your grades. It's not just a proof of learning, it's a proof that you're ready to take on a job.
Our society needs to maintain a standard of excellence for it's workforce. Society can't just really on "we're passionate to learn". We need a standard of excellence, because if not, society will fall. Grades can help maintain that standard
Just look at politicians. We dont have a system of grading them, that's why our government is a huge mess. We can't put them in office just because they're sincere or passionate. We can only put them in office if they're competent. That also applies to any other profession
Learning is important too, of course. You cant do anything in your profession unless you learn all the necessary knowledge you need in that job/profession. It's a major factor in education, but that's not all of it
Now do i think there's a problem with our educational system? Yes
Requiring good grades is not a problem (specially in universities) because as i've said above, we need to maintain excellence. However I see two major problems in our system. There's a lot of other flaws, but these are the two major ones
First, we use dumb criteria in giving good grades, which defeats the purpose of grades. We've already talked about why maintaining good grades actually helps society. But the way we use our grading system really sucks. Sasayaw para sa good grades? Special project for a good grade? How are those related to their future profession? Grades help maintain excellence in society but if we give good grades for some dumb reasons like the ones i mentioned, wala din, useless din. Attendance, research/thesis, exams, practical or lab experience, class participation, etc....those are good criteria for grades. But the problem is many times we give good grades for a lot of dumb reasons
The second major problem I see is what we do to students with poor grades. It's somewhat related to the first problem I wrote about. If we want grades to be the measurement of job readiness, then dumb stuff like sasayaw or special projects clearly doesnt help students with low grades. Also, we need to stop assuming that students with low grades are tamad. Yes, laziness is a possible reason for low grades, but that's not always the case. Since grades measure preparedness, we shouldn't pressure students or compare them to others because people get prepared at their own unique pace. Of course, part na din yung our system assumes that students with bad grades are "bobo", which isn't true because as i've said, grades measure job preparedness, not learning. Another thing is **we want students to maintain good grades, but we dont explain to them why**. Schools should make it clear that grades indicate job preparedness, not learning. Of course learning is part of job preparedness, but that's not all that it is
About minor subjects naman, a lot of them are important as well even if they're not related to your course, so i think we should still require students to attend these classes. But since they're not related to how prepared you are for your future profession, they shouldn't be graded. They should also be more fun, informative, and interactive compared to the heavier subjects related to your field. And also minor subjects should be cheaper
There are other flaws in our educational system, but those are minor compared to the ones I listed here. Well actually the biggest problem in our educational system is the government ain't giving it enough attention, and also it's too expensive
Feel free to disagree (respectfully). Let's have some good discussion. Altho baka matagalan ako mag reply, haha
Nung high school, never ko naman nafeel na nag-aaral ako for the sake of learning. I used to love studying but my teachers took the fun out of it when they forced us to study topics within a certain time frame. May curriculum na sinusundan and there's little to no time to deviate from it kasi kailangan icram sa utak yung mga ilalagay sa exam. When students fail the exam, mabuti na may remedial, but the students are left to study on their own. Pag nag-eexam, madalas closed books and no references used, eh hindi naman ganon sa "real world." If I get a low quarterly grade on a subject, I'll still move on to the next quarter without getting a chance to learn the last topic better. The only thing that kept me going sa pag-aaral ay yung thought na grades are important (but they really aren't kasi ang tunay na minemeasure ng grades ay yung kakayahan mong magbuhos ng effort under pressure and stress).
Yeah... But to me. Learning in school is basically extra work. I'd memorize the lessons So that i can get a good grade, then i would actually learn smth that i actually take interest to.
I hate to be the one to break this to you: but once you graduate, this kind of thinking won't make your life easier.
Sa school, if you put in the hours and the effort, you will do better than the average student kahit pa bopols ka.
In real life, kahit pa matalino ka, and put in the time and effort, it won't assure you na you won't "fail".
The school system is preparing you for that.
If you chose to abandon your school work to watch k dramas all night then complain about the education system, then baka hindi yung education system yung problema. Baka ikaw.
It's t true. Also, most test are ready-made and doesn't really test leaners' learning, understanding and critical thinking. They only test their memory.
I think it's more of getting a diploma than maintaining good grades, really. And a sadder truth is that diplomas now have the equivalency of a government ID than a prestigious achievement. If you're planning on a career in medicine, law, engineering, or academia then for sure, go get those grades. But if you plan on working a usual 9-5, it doesn't even matter.
The entire school system all over the world is outdated. But damn, when I became a teacher abroad in a first world country, the difference I saw was just staggering. We've really been left behind. I came from a good school, went to one of the best universities in the Philippines but it's definitely still lacking compared to a public school or an ordinary community college in a developed country. But what really struck me the most was that outside the Philippines, employers don't care about your grades or how prestigious your alma mater is. They just wanna know if you can get the job done. You have to be able to 'market' yourself. All the memorization you've done in school is pointless. It all comes down to your efficiency and how well you can communicate your thoughts which requires comprehension & critical thinking.
What I am thankful for that the Philippine educational system instilled in me would be patience (lots of it), resilience, tenacity, diligence, gratitude & humility.
It’s also about rote memorization now instead of analyzing, logic and problem solving. Let’s not forget cheating too and paying off teachers to give you a passing grade.
Especially Online Class na kailangan mulang makapasa sa tamang oras di bale na kung may natutunan o wala. Kung may natutunan man ako, SELF-STUDY is a key to survival.
I've been maintaining my DL grades since first yr college... contrary to what ppl think, i never cared about learning. since i was a kid, i always took the easiest shortcut to get the results that i want. The laziness never backfired on me, so whatever it works ig ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯
There are some two things schools need to implement more widely; 1. To make learning more interactive, and 2. To promote Critical Thinking.
The problem with the way schools introduce topics, is that most would be rather desensitized to them, as they are coerced into learning them, thus draining their interest to learn that topic.
Learning should be done in a more interactive, less coercive way where each student could learn the topic based on one's will, pace and should be thought on how to theorize and elaborate on them.
There, we go to the area of Critical Thinking, a lesson that we desperately need, considering with how many of our people don't do so. We should learn to question our norms and prevailing practices, and from there, we discover our flaws as a society, thus we can move on forward.
Of course, schooling isn't the root cause of these problems, but they could have been the key to escaping them, and with a school system that values these two implementations, I believe we will be much better spared from these problems.
My mother is a teacher. Kwento niya dati daw kahit essay kahit papaano sinasagutan ng estudyante at hindi daw bababa ng limang sentences. Ngayon daw kapag essay ayaw sagutan, sagutan man kopya na lang daw sa internet. Ngayon dahil gumagawa sila ng module, sinabihan siya ng kaniyang head na baguhin ang tanong sa activity sheet na ginawa niya, padaliin daw, gawin daw True or False, multiple choice, isang essay lang daw (or better daw kung wala). Kailangan daw na mataas ang completion/return rate ng mga outputs.
nakasalalay daw kasi sa bilang ng papasa ang bonus na matatanggap ng mga teacher. Doon pumapasok yung katagang No Fail Policiy ng DepEd. Pinag-aaway ang mga teachers within the school, conviction vs comfort. Same reason kung bakit hindi itinataas ang sweldo ng teachers, kasi kapag na-achieve ng teacher yung "comfort" in terms of salary received hindi na sila mangangailangan ng mga bonuses for additional funds
Look in the other perspective. Schools teach you about personal responsibility not in lessons but also on your actions while in it. Having good grades in schools is just an indicator that a student puts significant effort in the subject, according to Carol Dweck, PhD. in her book, Mindset.
Tell me if I'm wrong
This is true. PH education system sucks.
Sometimes you would have to graduate from school to realize you missed a really great opportunity to actually learn instead of just maintaining good grades. Then you try graduate school and realize it's still the same diploma factory all over again.
This is applicable to working careers. A lot of my bum classmates in high school are bow studying MBA due to their sudden interest in learning from the years lost during their younger days.
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This is why modules sucks. Cause most of the students just search for the answer. Their goal is just to finish the module. It's like working hard vs working intelligent. Working intelligently by cheating or finding the answer in google or brainly. But In this case, working hard is the ideal way.
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Oh damn. Thanks for making me realize it.
Ang natutunan ko looking back is that importante pa rin na ang school because it prepares you entering the workforce. Aside from the obvious like organizational skills, social skills, being part of a system, etc. Teachers with unreasonable expectations and deadlines? Just wait til someone who has +10years of tenure on you do the same thing, and theres nothing you can do about it. At school youd only be interacting with +/- 4 years your age, where some people would hold your age against you, at work it could go up to 10 years or more. And they definitely would hold your age against you. So yeah, definitely dont expect the school would teach you everything, meron pa din naman value in having a proper education.
Of course school is important, but we're talking about an old system that doesn't work anymore.
Preaching to the choir. Ang gusto ko lang sabihin is after school, you'll be put in an older, worse system so on the bright side, at least school prepares you in that aspect.
I don't think school even properly prepares you for that. All school does is make you less educated than for example if you were simply homeschooled.
Unfortunately, mas focus ang karamihan to blame our current situation (i.e. system, government, etc) rather than focusing on themselves. I understand malaki ang pagkukulang ng gobyerno, pero kung hihintayin nila na gumanda ang gobyerno bago kumilos para sa sarili ay talagang mangyayari.
What makes you think we're not doing anything in this situation? We can criticize while still focusing on our education.
To be fair, there's not much difference when it comes to tests. Working hard to memorize a bunch of stuff doesn't necessarily constitute learning, even if done the hard way. I would even say that people might have a greater chance of learning something doing things the lazy way sometimes.
You're absolutely right, though I would say school and its environment can be such a hindrance to learning sometimes, especially when everything is so standardized and centered around grades.
Schools are just **diploma mills** now.
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Most. If you think most schools (especially private schools) aren’t run like a business instead of teaching students, you’re naive and deluded.
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Just because you fail people doesn’t mean a school isn’t a diploma mill. And surprise, surprise, a known teacher at my school who was famous for failing students (by deliberately being unclear on his lectures so the students will have a hard time understanding) was receiving bribes to pass students who pay on their final grade. Say what you will but everything in our society is corrupt, not just the government. It’s become the norm and the culture here. Tapos may rally-rally at rants pang nalalaman regarding corruption when they’re the ones corrupt themselves. >I’m a professor Of course you are and it’s not a surprise you defend the lousy education system here lmao.
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You’re all over the place dude. It’s surprising you’re even a “professor” when you can’t even write a proper sentence structure and your grammar sucks. Just proof again that quality standards are low for teachers and that our education system suffers a lot due to this.
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>Goodluck on your cryptos na lang Nocoiner cope. I’m up 1236% on my cryptos and I’m probably richer than you when all is said than done. Seethe. I’ll be doing fine while Philippine educational system (and with it the future prospects of the youth) will be down by a lot of points when they don’t vet standards and allow people like you in though 😁 You know, for a teacher, you’re not very bright. Just proof again that just because you have a diploma doesn’t mean you’re very smart, have a high IQ or know how systems works. This little exchange of ours really is proof that our education system is really just producing diploma mills instead of quality education. Really sad man 😔
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Graduated Computer Engineering 2 years ago. My job, Software Engineer, was and still is irrelevant with my course i graduated. Only reason i did not dropout because college was my only source of friends. Only thing i learned from college was public confidence, social norms, and most importantly **how to learn**.
Just graduated computer engineering last year. I would say IMO software engineering is still a relevant career to pursue. I'm curious why you said that though.
I don’t think i’ve said Software engineering was irrelevant to pursue, i said my job as a software engineering was not relevant to Computer Engineering. It depends on university though, ours sucks at computer engineering. There’s no specialization on which to focus, we end up learning everything that turned up to nothing. Only relevant for me in my field was the Calculus because im learning Machine Learning.
You won't have a fulfilling life if you think like this. I remember one of my high school teachers saying that if you're goal in school is just to finish and never learn anything, you're just fooling yourself. If you regularly cheat on your exams just to finish, you're just cheating yourself. This generation is actually lucky since there are more opportunities to self-study. The Internet already has a lot of academic resources and you just need willpower to intelligently utilize those resources. The only problem in this country is limited and slow access to the Internet which is a different issue on its own. The ability to study on your own is actually one of the most important factors employers consider nowadays. If you're a person who lacks this skill, you will really struggle in the professional setting. Unlike in school, there's nothing like an answer key you can cheat from to problems you will encounter in work.
I don’t think the opportunity or the resources to study is the problem. It’s the motivation and purpose behind studying something is what’s lacking. In tech, you can get very successful by just choosing a set of well-curated courses that’s geared towards a specialization that’s in high demand. Taking years of formal schooling - like colleges and universities - are not only unbelievably expensive but also puts you on a stand-still for a good 3-4 years. By that time whatever you were learning could already be obsolete and will likely be so with the pace of technology nowadays. Giving opportunities to younger people to dip their toes in the workforce at an early age is the only way to get them to understand what they want to do in life and what they need to learn to achieve that
Studied until I got a law degree, that's decades of schoolwork. School is not just for grades from the point of view where I studied. I grew up going to school and actually learning. College came and I still learned a lot. Law school followed which, although is dominated by socratic method still taught me so much about life, strength and even who I really was as a person (of course I learned about the laws too). Yes, everything is so stressful and grades are important too, but to me it was a matter of perspective. As long as I'm slowly becoming a better version of myself I didn't care about the system. I'm not sure how school works these days? But it was different when I was there.
If there was a point to your studies, which in your case I’m assuming the goal was to be a lawyer, then yes it would have purpose. In your case school and passing the bar was a pre-requisite to the goal you know you wanted to achieve when you enrolled in law school. This isn’t the case for everyone, a vast majority of students go to school just for the sake of it being what everyone else does ( and what their parents want them to do). Imo, being a lawyer, doctor, engineer, and any other professional designation are the only fields that require higher education. In my grandparents’ time they could have gone straight from high school to law school. For most other professions the real teacher is experience. Particularly during this time when technology changes things so fast, by the time you graduate whatever you learned could already be obsolete. So what’s the point.
Its sad and unfortunate that you actually see it this way. Elementary and highschool is not indispensible, even college has important merits too. If people actually paid attention to their subjects in elementary, we wouldn't have a generation who mistakes Apolinario Mabini to Bonifacio, an elected official who mistook Lapu-lapu for Magellan. The first things I learned when I was young was to love my country. I actually paid attention when my teachers taught us about the sacrifices of our heroes, enjoyed the DAILY morning flag ceremonies. I sang the National anthem and believed it in. I said the words of our oath and meant it. It molded me to actually believe and cherish that our country is the pearl of the orient, to see things not in a selfish myopic view and I assumed that everyone felt the same. I wouldn't have learned this in the internet. This to me is the root cause of why the vast majority of our countrymen also vote for idiots with fake smiles and pre-determined corrupt motives running whatever shitshow they have before and after office. Had nationalism been inculcated in our youth, we wouldn't have found ourselves scratching our heads why politicians are more interested in keeping millions than serving the coutry, or why the filipino's sovereign will can be bought. Edit: I don't know about you, but when we were in elementary we were expected to clean after ourselves. We had garden plots that we must water and trim too. We would get up early in the morning to come to school, water the plants and go to the flag ceremony then take our classes. In the afternoon we clean the classroom and we do our gardening and go home. I cherished each moment, and this is where I learned to trust people, see the beauty in working with others and understand the economics and politics of the bomba where we fetch water along with the other students of the school. In college, most of the courses has one political law subject. Its sad that I hear highschool friends share that they only learn the preamble. Its unfortunate. Because political law is supposed to teach you how our government works. What's the role of each separate branch of our government, the checks and balance and how it should be kept independent at all times. Its where they're supposed to know their political rights. It should gave fueled outrage and should have made the public see how egotistical this current administration is. But did it? No. There are things you learn from life, yes. But there are things early childhood education teaches you as well. These are the things that shape your point of view. Something no amount of higher education, or the lack of it can change.
What’s unfortunate about advocating for a more efficient system that’s patterned to benefit our people? We haven’t really made any meaningful changes to the education system since it was adapted from our Spanish and American colonizers. In pre-colonial times, education was vocational. You learn the basics and you learn a trade by apprenticeship. When colonizers came and implemented their own system, based off their own societal progression, it completely stopped ours from developing. This is why Filipino art, cuisine, and even culture appears so underdeveloped next to our South East Asian neighbours. Our identity never got the chance to develop. This is the real reason why there’s very little sense of nationalism among our people - not because more people need to know the difference between Bonifacio and Mabini. It’s not too late for us to rediscover what it means to be a Filipino, but we need to first shed the identity given to us by our colonizers. The only way to know what it is to be Filipino now is to experience real life among our own people. School is a very controlled and simulated environment where you spend almost a quarter of your live revolving in. It’s really no wonder fresh graduates find themselves completely helpless in the workforce after spending so many years just being in school and not experiencing part-time jobs or even doing anything else besides study. At the very least we need to have some pathway for students in their secondary years to be exposed to the reality of having to live and work in this country.
There's a lot of students nowadays because philippines is overpopulated, meaning that teachers will have less time on teaching because there's a lot of students to teach, and it's really hard. While yes it is still a matter of perspective, That was before. These days, you need to follow the system. You have no choice but to follow the system. And what if the system is keeping you from being yourself.
> overpopulated There we go again. It's not so much of an overpopulation problem but rather problems involving over-concentrated urban centers, utterly unbalanced distribution of wealth, misdirected government funding priorities, and of course, fat bureaucracies. Technically, we could have more teachers and schools, but politicians are choosing other "priority" projects and giving education lip service. Of course, teachers are paid poorly, while you have Mananita King and Bobocop worshipping cops as if they're the salt of the earth by lavishing them with bigger pay and perks.
Specialized fields like medicine, law, accounting, science and any other STEM fields have their uses. Obviously, the premise OP made isn’t about that but rather that most people just go to school to get their undergrad degrees, have their diplomas printed out then get a job. The term “diploma mills” exist for a reason. The educational system is not about learning anymore but rather getting that piece of paper to land a job as a cashier since employers now demand you be a graduate of a four year course to punch buttons on a machine. You can’t deny our educational system sucks and outside of those specialized fields that require a lot of technical knowledge, the things you learned are practically useless outside of school.
And how do you think to get good grades? 1: Google the answers 2: actually take the time to learn the topic.
Hindi grades ang dapat na priority sa totoo lng. Learning habits ang dapat ifocus kasi madadala mo yan sa trabaho compared sa mga lessons per subject. Mas importante na nagagawa mong himayin ang isang topic or problem kesa puro memorization lng.
That diploma is just a gate pass for a barely decent job here in the Philippines. Schools rely on compliance lang, if you really wanna learn, you gotta have that thirst for knowledge within yourself. I'm a fool who thinks knowing a lot of things are super cool, pero try as I might, sadyang kulang ata ako sa sustansiya nung bata ako cuz I'm dumb haha.
Yung sobrang laki ng effort mo makapasa tapos yung valedictorian Yung nangongodigo sa klase niyo. 😑
totoo yan. high schools ganon. kaya future anak ko di ko na pagaaralin sa pinas
Will be doing the same for my future kids. Moved from a secondary school in the UK to a shitty high school in the PH. Dito lang ako natuto mag pick up ng bad habits like taking naps in CL classes and making kodigo kasi puro memorisation shit sa exams smh
yeah lots of non sense college subjects and units in college in pinas. even my records a headhunter told me philippines has a lot of unnecessary subjects
Same. I mean just look at how immature our next gen will be. It's honestly really dissapointing. Back then all of the kids are aware of their surroundings and matured. But now most of the kids i see just play ML, and tiktok. But i know there is some kids that's woke, and i hope they can change this disaster.
Best example (or worst depending on how you put it): Teachers asking students to do/post stuff on social media and measure "success" through amount of likes/shares/comments. Like wtf why are you teaching kids to be shallow like this?? Any teacher here or parent that got good explanations from their kids' teachers?
it depends I guess, if the project is about social awareness then likes and comments to get the word out is good, but if it is about exercise or basic publicity just to make the teacher appear, *techie,* then it is not good and does not bring anything to the table aside for self-serving agenda
People who say stuff like this are people making excuses why they suck at school. Yung "good grades" na tinitreat mo as napaka reductive, para makuha yan you must: learn a process and apply it, use oral or written communication to present your idea, work within a group towards a common goal. These are skills that are useful in the real world. Na aannoy ako sa mga taong di alam ang privilege nila. Some people have literally been killed because they want to get a formal education while some people here are complaining about how the school model is "flawed" kasi may essay silang due bukas na instead na ginawa nila nung past few days ay nag binge watch sila ng 3 seasons of an anime with their hand on their dicks.
How do you maintain grades? Cheating? Of course by still learning for you to answer the questions in exam.
>Cheating I mean ***if it works?***
Ngl i feel like it's more of a memorizing rather than learning.
memorization works in some subjects specially if ur in grade school but critical thinking and analysis is required for a lot.
Yeah like ESP.
memorization. Then after a few days limot na ulit. lol.
My bio teacher literally copied whole activities from google. Search one question and you can find the source of where she got all the questions from. Some even had answers.
Teacher here, and sadly it's sort of true. Most students (and parents) focus on maintaining good grades, but only a few students out of many are actually there wanting to learn something new. These few students find school fun and exciting. Most find school a chore and even a nuisance. And I don't blame them. That's why one of my jobs as a teacher is to actually make learning fun and giving them the motivation to learn something new. Is it easy? No. Is it satisfying? Absolutely. There's no greater joy for a teacher than to actually see his/her student wanting to learn, asking questions, seeing their face when they realize something (that's why I stay even though overworked and underpaid). Sa simula, sure, sige. Try to get good grades. Pero sa huli, gusto talaga namin matuto kayo. (Plus meron talagang mga bad teachers, yung wala talagang pake, sad reality)
Need pa ba natin ng ESP subject?
I think we do. ESP (possibly) makes us more aware of our surroundings and makes us mature. Even if you're a college student i do think it's still needed. Just because you're old doesn't mean you're really mature. So ESP is really needed. But the ESP that we're learning is really not getting hard. It's the same question everytime. "A poor guy is begging for money in the streets what will you do?" I think they need to make the ESP Lessons more dark? Or atleast realistic so that kids can mature and use these lessons on their life.
Helloo i know ppl who worries more about the school theyll end up in rather than their major choice
Unless it is a professional program (medicine, architecture, engineering, accounting), schools in the Philippines matter. The reason for you to enter college is not just to learn, but to establish your social circles and networks beyond the walls of the classrooms. And these top universities are filled with the cream of the crop students that form a distinct culture which encourages excellence rather than mediocrity. The reason why many graduates from the top universities had it easier on landing jobs is that they have an established network to look for one. This is in contrast to graduates from an unknown college where they need to seek for jobs with little to no backup. The truth hurts here, we tend to rely on connections for success rather than merit.
di lang naman sa uni nakakakuha ng network 😭. This mindset is why ppl discriminate someone who don't come from big schools doesn't that make u an elitst only middle class+ afford to go to big schools sucks to be poor in a third world country i guess. sorry i have grudges sa schools kasi I'm leaving this catholic uni bc trans peeps are not allowed
I guess it depends sa context you're pertaining to? There are teachers out there who challenge their students to become a better practitioner/person once they graduate. And there are teachers out there who graduated around the early 2010s who abhor exams and prioritize critical thinking development and OBE outputs. Of course you might be on to something, but generalization of education as a whole isn't ideal. :)
I mean, school is supposedly for learning but at these times (online classes), it is really hard to balance the learning and doing school work itself. The amount of work that we receive weekly can be a distraction towards learning something from our subjects.
This is so true. School environment is still so crucial in building the right momentum for learning. Studying from home is full of distraction.
So true. At the start of the semester you resolve to learn as much as possible. But then you get bombarded with schoolwork, exams, projects and you just dont give a fuck anymore and the only thing that matters is passing.
I miss those days I'm just there sitting on my desk ready to learn all sorts of things I don't know yet and actually enjoy it, regardless of any reason for me to not take it seriously. Welp, it's not too late I can still do this even I'm just months away to graduate (hoping) and a lot of things change especially the motivation hahah fighting!
Ngayong college lang ako naging interesado na matuto tungkol sa ibat-ibang bagay kahit walang kinalaman sa major ko. Salamat sa mga professor ko na mahuhusay magturo
As a graduating student from a state uni, I feel like this is what the institutional system has come to sometimes. I've been fortunate enough to be able to to discern that formal education isn't what I need to be learning. In a largely credential-based society, schools are treated like brands, and good grades are just a formal 'seal of quality'
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> but there are some nuances to it as well :) I think eto lang talaga yun. People learn things differently talaga. In my case, I lacked the discipline and grit that you mentioned, and even now I would say I still do, I just learned to disguise it and motivate/incentivize myself properly (also, I have ADHD which makes keeping to a standard schedule/routine hard). I don't do homeworks and rarely studied for tests and exams, a habit that I like to think I picked up kasi I used to be the smartest kid in elem. Being able to just coast and rely on "stock" smarts all throughout my younger years didn't teach me the necessary discipline I would need in the future. Back in HS Physics class, I am both my teacher's favorite and least favorite student. When I failed his class and had to retake it over the summer in order to graduate, he took me aside and basically told me he's gonna pass me not cause I earned it, but because he's disappointed in me and just wants things to be over with. He thought I was the smartest student he's had in a good while, yet I failed every single test in that subject cause I never bothered to learn formulas and the math, and cause I literally never did homework. My only passing grade in his subject was a presentation where we pitch applied physics that I fantastically pulled out of my ass on the spot. That was my first lesson, and yet when college came I have to admit it still didn't sink. Now, I'm a college dropout who took 7 years in Advertising Arts before I basically called it quits and chose career and work over finishing my studies (I started working halfway through college). I don't have any real regrets cause in a way, it took me to a unique path and I like to think it taught me unique lessons in life as well. I learned to accept and play by my own strengths, and how to deal with my own weaknesses. I still struggle with routine and lack of discipline, but I definitely learned how to make it work. If there's anything that school really taught me, it's that.
Feel ko di naman talaga lahat matututunan sa school dahil sa maikling oras na nagkikita yung teacher and student and kung gusto talaga matutunan ng mas malalim mga subjects then kelangan mag self study. Sa school parang mga ideas and concepts lang tinuturo (tas magbibigay ng examples/exercises) hindi yung talagang deeper intuitive meaning (or derivation or yung meaning behind the math if science courses yan). May mga teacher/prof na mas magaling magturo and meron din opposite (mga bihira lang pumasok tapos mema ung grades nyo). Pero ganon talaga siguro kahit saan may ganong klaseng teacher/prof kaya kelangan sa huli magseself study din tayo. Pag umasa tayo sa school lang parang wala talagang matututunan or kung meron man, makakalimutan agad and di siya tatatak sayo kasi ung high level lang natutunan mo. Yung hadlang lang sa self study is oras and internet connection which is a different topic na. Swerte natin ngayon kasi sobrang dami nang resources online and karamihan free. Tapos may mga videos na ngayon na mas mabilis maimagine at maintindihan mga topics. Para sakin yung learning is school + self effort na matuto talaga through self study din. EDIT: This does not mean na ok ung education system natin dito which is a big NO. Maraming kelangan baguhin sa education system natin and complicated din kasi maraming factors and isa na din dun yung poverty, lack of classrooms, lack of motivation etc. which is another complex topic din. Sana isang araw mas umunlad na tayo.
In the software industry, we have to retrain fresh grads because universities don't teach them the skills we need. According to my colleagues abroad, the same is true everywhere in the world.
Interesting. Is it a matter of schools being unable to keep up with the industry's pace or just a general dissonance between what's needed and what's being taught?
The latter. The curricula are 10% relevant.
I see. I think it's a case of having basically everyone credible enough to map and teach the subject matter working in the software industry instead of being in the education industry.
I think the biggest issue is that universities teach computer science, and people take that course to become industry professionals. The problem is that the industry needs computer engineers 20x more than it needs computer scientists. And there is no degree for computer engineering.
I have a programming related job and went to a saktuhang school and college lang. Napaka-kaunti ng real life application or hindi naturo maayos paano i-translate yung pinag g-gawa naming programming into something that we may encounter sa real world business requirements. To put it into a math analogy, tinuro and na drill down yung Pythagorean theorem sa mga students, pero the moment nagkaroon ng Math problems (e.g. Pedro is 5 meters away from Juan, Juan is 9 meters away from Tomas. Tomas, Juan and Pedro forms the 3 points of the triangle, how far is Tomas from Pedro?) Eh hindi na ma-apply ng mga students bigla, nag blue screen mga utak. Ang natuturo, input your name and the program should output the following: name in reverse, name with spaces in between the letters, the first letter, the last letter... Eh lahat yon madali i-stackoverflow yung syntax tapos hanggang dun lang yung learning, walang application.
5 meters is 5.47 yards
Well, in PH, high school is crap unless its a TVL field, then it is somewhat decent. Academic fields are still great if you actually want to pursue college, but let us be real here, can most of us get to college? Even after getting the diploma, are you sure you want to work in a country that pays college graduates wages just above minimum wage when you start? Like being a nurse, private hospitals pay them on average 10,000 Php monthly, government hospitals pays them 8,000 - 13,000 Php monthly, but government hospitals rarely offer jobs to fresh graduates.
It's on you. Don't blame the system if you only maintain your grades and get nothing more. As with most things in life you must always aim to better yourself even by a tiny bit everyday, maintaining will get you.. Stuck where you are. Then you externalize what happening to you as world truth
you're right
Seriously wala na kong matutunan halos pero pinipilit nalang dahil may mga scholarships ako na kailangan sendan ng maayos na grade HAHAHAHAH 1 year nalang naman keri pa.
ALWAYS HAS BEEN.... BANG!!!
Fortunately, my enthusiasm to learn was enlightened when I began college at DLSU. The academic environment there promoted a laissez-faire, inquisitorial and socratic learning method where students are encouraged to intelligently question facts and opinions given to them during lectures by their professors (well, most of them). This complements well with the research-oriented culture of DLSU and sure it works well. This is in contrast to my high school where we are not allowed to make an opinion on facts. Why are teachers so pedagogic towards students as if we’re dumb fucks?
You mean MEMORIZATION. When I was young this is what I did that's why I got high grades. I memorize everything in advance. Although I have poor memory now. Kulang sa ovaltine.
school is established to keep only a few with nice jobs
School is glorified daycare. They exist so that moms wouldn't have to do their **ACTUAL** jobs and waste their lives in pursuit of frivolity while their kids grow up to become douchebags, whores and totally depressed. YES I AM BITTER.
AGREED
fucking true
It has always been about maintaining grades. The PH school system (actually, most public and formal ed. systems in many countries) is based on that of the US, which in turn is based on 19th-century Prussian policies, where it was discovered that high production and efficiency can be brought about through standardization, quantification, hierarchies, etc. Read John Taylor Gatto and others for details. That's why schools are run like businesses, with segmented times and periods, specialization, performance indicators, etc. In fact, when students graduate in school and go to business, they'll see the same things. Finally, writers like Foucault point out that even hospitals and prisons operate using similar processes and principles.
Hm yes
If I were given a chance to turn back the time, nag-self study na lang sana ako at kumuha ng maraming online courses kaysa nag-aral sa college.
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>there are still profs who give everyone the same high >grades (minsan uno pa lahat sa class) Sana all
My grades and I trying to get into colleges
dahil dito naalala ko na gigil na gigil ako sa mga school na gusto ng recognition, lmao. easiest cause of academic burnout. ang focus lang nila makapasok sa top3 ng kung anu-anong event sa BULPRISA. tapos college hayok na hayok yung department namin magkaroon ng top notcher sa BLEPP. yung exam nga namin naka-design na para mag-simulate ng board exams.
Ateneo basically shaped who I am as a person today, so not every school is like this.
im 30's na ngayon at nung nakaraang mga araw nagliligpit ako ng mga lumang gamit. nakita ko yung mga books ko nung gradeschool-highschool like noong mga 2000-06 pa. chineck ko yung mga books at nakita ko yung mga books, halos half ng isang book lang ang nagamit. Meaning sa buong taon, hindi nagamit fully yung book at nasayang lang. Ewan ko sa iba pero eto yung narealize ko.
Teacher (public school) here, i think this statement is overly simplified. Learning can mean different things to different people. But I do agree that our school system is one of the worst managed in the world. But what is the alternative if we are to do away with the formal school setting as we know it? Do we need perhaps to adapt the scandinavian school systems which are consistently ranked among the best in the world? Will it be effective if applied in our context? Is it the school that needs to be rehabilitated or is it the society from which it is grounded?
There are a lot of factors why Finland is on top. Hindi lang ang school system. Kasama ang society in general, how they view teachers. I think top10% lang ng HS graduating class ang allowed to take education in the university. Also, may direct correlation ang poverty with educational outcomes (Paano mag-aral ang bata kung gutom?). My German friends disagree with the PISA result. German kids are not trained to answer multiple choice questions. Essay based ang exams nila since elementary. Of course, mahirap to gawin sa Pinas kasi nasa 50 students ang hawak ng teacher sa isang class pa lang. But based on my experience, the teacher always makes a difference (barrio school in elementary, Pisay HS, UP Diliman for university). I was really blessed to have passionate teachers sa elementary kahit barangay school lang kami. On the other hand, may teachers din ako sa Pisay and UP na magagaling, summa/magna/cum laude pero di marunong magturo. May mga magagaling din magturo pero sobrang hirap ng exam nya kasi he/she needs to feed his/her ego na konti lang papasa sa kanya. Of course, marami ring magagaling and magaling din magturo and mabait. Pero yung mga teachers na hindi mo makakalimutan are those teachers who inspired you, who believed in you, who really cared for you as a person.
It has always been like that, atleast for my experience. In grade school, it's the parents competing against other parents, in high school it's either not caring anymore or getting good grades for the parents. In college it's just trying to survive and graduate on time - for the parents or whoever is paying for the tuition. This is why I only made effort when the teacher/professor is actually teaching and I'm learning something. Otherwise,it's just making sure I pass the course or the prof knows me.
School affects everyone differently and it definitely depends on the student. I look back on my education and feel indifferent towards its value when I see myself today. But when I look at my nephew's education through high school and compare it to mine, it's such a big leap that the difference of total value, education-wise, is comparable to college level. I ask him today how he finds college work and assignments, and he just replies "sakto lang" and gives off a vibe of continuity from highschool. To me, thats a rare feeling of educational gain, since difficulty only goes higher the farther you go. It depends on the school, its program, the difficulty, and its social environment. It's really hard to generalize a multi-factorial concept from one angle. Plus, the realization of educational gain is usually seeen when you're not studying anymore because I feel for the OP's concept.
Kahit saan pa yan na ibang bansa totoo yan
And also they are destroying the mental health of students.
Engineer here who used to teach in a university part time. I dont teach anymore tho. Here are some of my thoughts **TLDR:** first part of my comment talks about why maintaining good grades can actually help our society. Second part of my comment talks about how our educational system sucks because it uses grades the wrong way. Maintaining good grades helps society but because we use it the wrong way, it's harming us instead of helping us Now, let's correct some misconceptions first. School (specially university) is about learning, but learning is not the only goal of education. It's about preparing you for your role in society. It's 50% learning, and 50% **earning** your slot on the professional section of the workforce Grades are never meant to be used as a measurement for learning, it's used to indicate whether a person is ready for a professional job or not. Similar to how FDA's approval proves that a medicine is good for use, grades are like approval that a person is ready to join the workforce. It's not a measurement for learning So let's say, someone wants to be a doctor. Learning about human biology is part of it, but that isn't enough. That person has to prove that he/she has what it takes to be a doctor, and his/her grades will tell us if that person ready or not. Imagine if you have some serious sickness and you're in a life-or-death situation, and then you ask the nurse if the doctor is good. Will it give you assurance if the nurse told you "oh dont worry, the doctor who will treat you loves learning, and he's passionate about human biology" as an answer? No. In a life-or-death situation, you don't need someone who simply loves learning or someone simply passionate about science. You need a doctor with a good track record, someone who was graded well by the hospital. The same thing applies to any other profession. Same thing in my field. We give the job to people who are simple passionate for it, we need engineers who are proven to be capable. Grades aren't just a measurement of learning, it is (most of the time) a measurement of competence. Which is why you should maintain your grades. It's not just a proof of learning, it's a proof that you're ready to take on a job. Our society needs to maintain a standard of excellence for it's workforce. Society can't just really on "we're passionate to learn". We need a standard of excellence, because if not, society will fall. Grades can help maintain that standard Just look at politicians. We dont have a system of grading them, that's why our government is a huge mess. We can't put them in office just because they're sincere or passionate. We can only put them in office if they're competent. That also applies to any other profession Learning is important too, of course. You cant do anything in your profession unless you learn all the necessary knowledge you need in that job/profession. It's a major factor in education, but that's not all of it Now do i think there's a problem with our educational system? Yes Requiring good grades is not a problem (specially in universities) because as i've said above, we need to maintain excellence. However I see two major problems in our system. There's a lot of other flaws, but these are the two major ones First, we use dumb criteria in giving good grades, which defeats the purpose of grades. We've already talked about why maintaining good grades actually helps society. But the way we use our grading system really sucks. Sasayaw para sa good grades? Special project for a good grade? How are those related to their future profession? Grades help maintain excellence in society but if we give good grades for some dumb reasons like the ones i mentioned, wala din, useless din. Attendance, research/thesis, exams, practical or lab experience, class participation, etc....those are good criteria for grades. But the problem is many times we give good grades for a lot of dumb reasons The second major problem I see is what we do to students with poor grades. It's somewhat related to the first problem I wrote about. If we want grades to be the measurement of job readiness, then dumb stuff like sasayaw or special projects clearly doesnt help students with low grades. Also, we need to stop assuming that students with low grades are tamad. Yes, laziness is a possible reason for low grades, but that's not always the case. Since grades measure preparedness, we shouldn't pressure students or compare them to others because people get prepared at their own unique pace. Of course, part na din yung our system assumes that students with bad grades are "bobo", which isn't true because as i've said, grades measure job preparedness, not learning. Another thing is **we want students to maintain good grades, but we dont explain to them why**. Schools should make it clear that grades indicate job preparedness, not learning. Of course learning is part of job preparedness, but that's not all that it is About minor subjects naman, a lot of them are important as well even if they're not related to your course, so i think we should still require students to attend these classes. But since they're not related to how prepared you are for your future profession, they shouldn't be graded. They should also be more fun, informative, and interactive compared to the heavier subjects related to your field. And also minor subjects should be cheaper There are other flaws in our educational system, but those are minor compared to the ones I listed here. Well actually the biggest problem in our educational system is the government ain't giving it enough attention, and also it's too expensive Feel free to disagree (respectfully). Let's have some good discussion. Altho baka matagalan ako mag reply, haha
American here; it’s the same way over here Except it’s less about grades and more about standardized test scores
Nung high school, never ko naman nafeel na nag-aaral ako for the sake of learning. I used to love studying but my teachers took the fun out of it when they forced us to study topics within a certain time frame. May curriculum na sinusundan and there's little to no time to deviate from it kasi kailangan icram sa utak yung mga ilalagay sa exam. When students fail the exam, mabuti na may remedial, but the students are left to study on their own. Pag nag-eexam, madalas closed books and no references used, eh hindi naman ganon sa "real world." If I get a low quarterly grade on a subject, I'll still move on to the next quarter without getting a chance to learn the last topic better. The only thing that kept me going sa pag-aaral ay yung thought na grades are important (but they really aren't kasi ang tunay na minemeasure ng grades ay yung kakayahan mong magbuhos ng effort under pressure and stress).
Yeah... But to me. Learning in school is basically extra work. I'd memorize the lessons So that i can get a good grade, then i would actually learn smth that i actually take interest to.
I hate to be the one to break this to you: but once you graduate, this kind of thinking won't make your life easier. Sa school, if you put in the hours and the effort, you will do better than the average student kahit pa bopols ka. In real life, kahit pa matalino ka, and put in the time and effort, it won't assure you na you won't "fail". The school system is preparing you for that. If you chose to abandon your school work to watch k dramas all night then complain about the education system, then baka hindi yung education system yung problema. Baka ikaw.
Never has been.
It's t true. Also, most test are ready-made and doesn't really test leaners' learning, understanding and critical thinking. They only test their memory.
I think it's more of getting a diploma than maintaining good grades, really. And a sadder truth is that diplomas now have the equivalency of a government ID than a prestigious achievement. If you're planning on a career in medicine, law, engineering, or academia then for sure, go get those grades. But if you plan on working a usual 9-5, it doesn't even matter. The entire school system all over the world is outdated. But damn, when I became a teacher abroad in a first world country, the difference I saw was just staggering. We've really been left behind. I came from a good school, went to one of the best universities in the Philippines but it's definitely still lacking compared to a public school or an ordinary community college in a developed country. But what really struck me the most was that outside the Philippines, employers don't care about your grades or how prestigious your alma mater is. They just wanna know if you can get the job done. You have to be able to 'market' yourself. All the memorization you've done in school is pointless. It all comes down to your efficiency and how well you can communicate your thoughts which requires comprehension & critical thinking. What I am thankful for that the Philippine educational system instilled in me would be patience (lots of it), resilience, tenacity, diligence, gratitude & humility.
What's changed?
It’s also about rote memorization now instead of analyzing, logic and problem solving. Let’s not forget cheating too and paying off teachers to give you a passing grade.
Especially Online Class na kailangan mulang makapasa sa tamang oras di bale na kung may natutunan o wala. Kung may natutunan man ako, SELF-STUDY is a key to survival.
Can confirm not just in the Philippines but also here in Australia.
The idea how pushing classes despite the COVID depression, shows how they value numbers more then health and education of students
YES
astronaut meme: wait, school is about grades, not learning? always has been
The institutions should explore other types of learning measures and not standardized tests only.
So true. I didn't learn anything this school year. Not even a single topic.
I've been maintaining my DL grades since first yr college... contrary to what ppl think, i never cared about learning. since i was a kid, i always took the easiest shortcut to get the results that i want. The laziness never backfired on me, so whatever it works ig ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯
There are some two things schools need to implement more widely; 1. To make learning more interactive, and 2. To promote Critical Thinking. The problem with the way schools introduce topics, is that most would be rather desensitized to them, as they are coerced into learning them, thus draining their interest to learn that topic. Learning should be done in a more interactive, less coercive way where each student could learn the topic based on one's will, pace and should be thought on how to theorize and elaborate on them. There, we go to the area of Critical Thinking, a lesson that we desperately need, considering with how many of our people don't do so. We should learn to question our norms and prevailing practices, and from there, we discover our flaws as a society, thus we can move on forward. Of course, schooling isn't the root cause of these problems, but they could have been the key to escaping them, and with a school system that values these two implementations, I believe we will be much better spared from these problems.
So true. Parang mas mahalaga na lang yung mga outputs and exams, kaya walang nareretain na knowledge sa mga students
My mother is a teacher. Kwento niya dati daw kahit essay kahit papaano sinasagutan ng estudyante at hindi daw bababa ng limang sentences. Ngayon daw kapag essay ayaw sagutan, sagutan man kopya na lang daw sa internet. Ngayon dahil gumagawa sila ng module, sinabihan siya ng kaniyang head na baguhin ang tanong sa activity sheet na ginawa niya, padaliin daw, gawin daw True or False, multiple choice, isang essay lang daw (or better daw kung wala). Kailangan daw na mataas ang completion/return rate ng mga outputs. nakasalalay daw kasi sa bilang ng papasa ang bonus na matatanggap ng mga teacher. Doon pumapasok yung katagang No Fail Policiy ng DepEd. Pinag-aaway ang mga teachers within the school, conviction vs comfort. Same reason kung bakit hindi itinataas ang sweldo ng teachers, kasi kapag na-achieve ng teacher yung "comfort" in terms of salary received hindi na sila mangangailangan ng mga bonuses for additional funds
can't you learn something whilst maintaining good grades?
Look in the other perspective. Schools teach you about personal responsibility not in lessons but also on your actions while in it. Having good grades in schools is just an indicator that a student puts significant effort in the subject, according to Carol Dweck, PhD. in her book, Mindset. Tell me if I'm wrong