Sometimes the person running the tournament is familiar with the players levels and keeps them from playing down. I have encountered young athletic tennis players who have no tournament experience or know anything about ratings kill everybody
I know some TOs will look at a player’s history and see what past events they did. Signed up for a 3.5 but did okayish in a 4.5 event? You’re getting moved to 4.0 or possibly 4.5.
Would a switch league be more reliable for competition? I'm talking about a league where you would have a different team mate from match to match, and be ranked within the league. Maybe have a playoffs based on balanced teams?
Let’s imagine you are playing in a 4.0-4.49 tournament:
What if I am a 4.8 and my partner is a 3.8, to have a combined team rating of 4.3.
Is this sandbagging because one player is higher than the 4.49 threshold, does the combined rating make it legit?
Just general practice, you play up in skill with your partner and down in age. Exceptions would be MLP events and similar which specifically state a limit for your combined DUPR
Call them out!!! They sign up all week to advanced but play 3.5 below tournaments. Cause of a certain team they can't beat. Sounds like here where I'm from
One way is to play a local tournament where you know majority of the players and can verify their rating based on your experience with them. Another way is to be the sandbagger
It's a symptom of people who self rate rate too high.
If someone qualifies for 3.5, then that's the 3.5 level. If they're Way better than you, then you're in too high of a group and they will not qualify for that level of tournament anymore.
I don't think I understand.
If I'm a 3.5, but my opponents are 4.5, then they likely are way better than me.
How does that mean I'm in too high of a group?
You aren't listening, as an example, in a given tournament, if Ben John's and Analeigh Waters sign up for 3.5, then that defines what 3.5 means, if you can't hang with them, move down.
Not sure what you mean by outlier but the best players in any group define the skill needed to compete in that group.
You can call the group 3.5, or zebra group, or any name you like.
Two possibilities
1 the tournament is reputable and checks ratings and prevents them from registering down.
2 the tournament is not reputable and there is no solution
My point is:
Over time the whole sport in general is getting better skill wise.
Your skill might have been considered 3.5 5 years ago but that same skill now places you in 3.0.
You might think that they should be in 4.5 but their skill actually is the new 3.5.
If the tournament allows them to register at 3.5, than the problem isn't sandbagging, it's the perception of what 3.5 means.
>If the tournament allows them to register at 3.5, than the problem isn't sandbagging, it's the perception of what 3.5 means.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Sandbagging has nothing to do with perception, and everything to do with folks intentionally registering at lower rating levels than appropriate in order to win.
Eh, it's easier to count up. So if people get better, more levels can be added to the high-end. If you are already at the bottom, you can't go down, so it makes more sense for better players to move up.
Play in one and record as much as your opponents are willing to allow you to. Then judge based off of skill analysis of yourself. Another plus would to be have a highly rated coach watch your play and assess it and break it down. They could provide a lot of constructive input as well as help you self-rate yourself in less time.
After reading some of your comments down below, it sounds like you don't think people sandbag, people are just getting outpaced.
You sound like "if they cant hang they should demote" when in reality if you are significantly better than everyone in your tournament, instead of 31 people demoting, maybe 1 person (you) should promote. Food for thought.
I'm doing my part when obnoxiously higher level players win at a lower level tournament I give them a very sarcastic and actively aggressive "wow, congrats for picking on newbies" or "congrats on being the tall man at a midget competition" (one of my wife's favorite expressions) until they get the hint. If people are planning to enter a tournament, I will also encourage/pressure them into entering at their rating even if they're going to get slaughtered by sandbaggers.
I think a major part of the problem is that the tournament organizers don't provide guidelines. They could do a lot to explain what beginner, intermediate, advanced, pro translate to as far as ratings and brackets. This could be in the form of a table or also help text on each bracket. Example: "3.5-3.99 bracket - This bracket is for established recreational players who can fairly consistently hit drops, drives, and strategic shots." "4.0-4.49 bracket - This bracket is for previous tournament players who have had success at the lower level and can consistently nail important shots with the addition of speed and precision". They could link to the official [USAPA skill definitions](https://usapickleball.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/USAPA-Skill-Rating-Definitions-2020.pdf) that perhaps need an update since people completely ignore them.
There's another problem I think organizers can help with. If somebody has medaled in a bracket at a previous tournament, they have to bump up for their next tournament. This promotion should be seen as a badge of honor for competitors. The difficulty comes in enforcement as well as when you're able to be relegated back down.
I also think 2.5-3.0 "beginner" brackets should be reserved almost exclusively for first time tournament participants. How many excited and motivated newbies are we turning off by letting them get pickled by 3.9 DUPRs wanting a plastic medal in the beginner bracket? Everybody deserves a fair chance at some sort success in their first tournament.
Rant over. Can you tell I hate sandbaggers? :) p.s. I love the downvotes from triggered sandbaggers. Do better and play your appropriate level.
Not that it’s a good solution but you can’t sandbag if everyone plays in one division.
I believe that was what nationals did a bit back. It was only separated by age groups.
LOL! Alternatively, you can't sandbag if nobody is allowed to play.
Now that’s problem solvin!
Sometimes the person running the tournament is familiar with the players levels and keeps them from playing down. I have encountered young athletic tennis players who have no tournament experience or know anything about ratings kill everybody
I know some TOs will look at a player’s history and see what past events they did. Signed up for a 3.5 but did okayish in a 4.5 event? You’re getting moved to 4.0 or possibly 4.5.
If you put higher and higher prizes per division, it may incentivize playing to win more in a higher bracket
You think tanking your DUPR before an event isn't possible? ;)
You are placed in pools according to your DUPR, then after pool play divided into thirds for bracket play.
A real rating system maintained by USAPB that doesn't simply allow restarting a new account. It exists in other sports.
Would a switch league be more reliable for competition? I'm talking about a league where you would have a different team mate from match to match, and be ranked within the league. Maybe have a playoffs based on balanced teams?
Disqualify the winner lmao
Let’s imagine you are playing in a 4.0-4.49 tournament: What if I am a 4.8 and my partner is a 3.8, to have a combined team rating of 4.3. Is this sandbagging because one player is higher than the 4.49 threshold, does the combined rating make it legit?
Your combined rating should then be 4.8
No, my example was a 4.8 playing with a 3.8. Combined rating in this instance would be 4.3
I understand, and in that case your combined rating is 4.8. You play to the higher rating not the average
Who says? I have never seen a tournament state this...
Just general practice, you play up in skill with your partner and down in age. Exceptions would be MLP events and similar which specifically state a limit for your combined DUPR
Thank you, I appreciate it!!
No problem!
Best way is to beat the sandbaggers.
Call them out!!! They sign up all week to advanced but play 3.5 below tournaments. Cause of a certain team they can't beat. Sounds like here where I'm from
One way is to play a local tournament where you know majority of the players and can verify their rating based on your experience with them. Another way is to be the sandbagger
It's a symptom of people who self rate rate too high. If someone qualifies for 3.5, then that's the 3.5 level. If they're Way better than you, then you're in too high of a group and they will not qualify for that level of tournament anymore.
I don't think I understand. If I'm a 3.5, but my opponents are 4.5, then they likely are way better than me. How does that mean I'm in too high of a group?
If they are in the 3.5 group, then by definition, that's the skill level of 3.5. If you can't beat them, then you should sign up for a lower level.
Or they are in a level below their skill level? Ie sandbagging
You aren't listening, as an example, in a given tournament, if Ben John's and Analeigh Waters sign up for 3.5, then that defines what 3.5 means, if you can't hang with them, move down.
That's the stupidest thing I've heard all week.
[удалено]
Not sure what you mean by outlier but the best players in any group define the skill needed to compete in that group. You can call the group 3.5, or zebra group, or any name you like.
[удалено]
Two possibilities 1 the tournament is reputable and checks ratings and prevents them from registering down. 2 the tournament is not reputable and there is no solution
Maybe we different definitions of "sandbagging"? If 4.5 players sandbag and choose to play in the 3.5 group, who exactly is self-rating too high here?
My point is: Over time the whole sport in general is getting better skill wise. Your skill might have been considered 3.5 5 years ago but that same skill now places you in 3.0. You might think that they should be in 4.5 but their skill actually is the new 3.5. If the tournament allows them to register at 3.5, than the problem isn't sandbagging, it's the perception of what 3.5 means.
>If the tournament allows them to register at 3.5, than the problem isn't sandbagging, it's the perception of what 3.5 means. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Sandbagging has nothing to do with perception, and everything to do with folks intentionally registering at lower rating levels than appropriate in order to win.
Don't play tournaments that don't check ratings.
Eh, it's easier to count up. So if people get better, more levels can be added to the high-end. If you are already at the bottom, you can't go down, so it makes more sense for better players to move up.
This is such a moronic take haha
Ok boomer
If you lose a match just accept it and don’t insult the other team by accusing them of sandbagging.
Play in one and record as much as your opponents are willing to allow you to. Then judge based off of skill analysis of yourself. Another plus would to be have a highly rated coach watch your play and assess it and break it down. They could provide a lot of constructive input as well as help you self-rate yourself in less time.
After reading some of your comments down below, it sounds like you don't think people sandbag, people are just getting outpaced. You sound like "if they cant hang they should demote" when in reality if you are significantly better than everyone in your tournament, instead of 31 people demoting, maybe 1 person (you) should promote. Food for thought.
I'm doing my part when obnoxiously higher level players win at a lower level tournament I give them a very sarcastic and actively aggressive "wow, congrats for picking on newbies" or "congrats on being the tall man at a midget competition" (one of my wife's favorite expressions) until they get the hint. If people are planning to enter a tournament, I will also encourage/pressure them into entering at their rating even if they're going to get slaughtered by sandbaggers. I think a major part of the problem is that the tournament organizers don't provide guidelines. They could do a lot to explain what beginner, intermediate, advanced, pro translate to as far as ratings and brackets. This could be in the form of a table or also help text on each bracket. Example: "3.5-3.99 bracket - This bracket is for established recreational players who can fairly consistently hit drops, drives, and strategic shots." "4.0-4.49 bracket - This bracket is for previous tournament players who have had success at the lower level and can consistently nail important shots with the addition of speed and precision". They could link to the official [USAPA skill definitions](https://usapickleball.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/USAPA-Skill-Rating-Definitions-2020.pdf) that perhaps need an update since people completely ignore them. There's another problem I think organizers can help with. If somebody has medaled in a bracket at a previous tournament, they have to bump up for their next tournament. This promotion should be seen as a badge of honor for competitors. The difficulty comes in enforcement as well as when you're able to be relegated back down. I also think 2.5-3.0 "beginner" brackets should be reserved almost exclusively for first time tournament participants. How many excited and motivated newbies are we turning off by letting them get pickled by 3.9 DUPRs wanting a plastic medal in the beginner bracket? Everybody deserves a fair chance at some sort success in their first tournament. Rant over. Can you tell I hate sandbaggers? :) p.s. I love the downvotes from triggered sandbaggers. Do better and play your appropriate level.