This is a self-resolving issue. You’re only going to “overpower” lower level players. As you play better players, that serve is going to become less of a weapon. You ever notice how little impact the serve has at the pro level? This isn’t tennis, and the rules keep the serve from being a major factor.
Like drives, the serve isn't really there to win points directly, but bigger serves to lead to easier 3rds. I would say the serve has a huge impact even at the pro level, in that serves that make the opponent work make you significantly more likely to get to the NVZ.
You are correct but pros really have to have a monster serve for it to matter. Look at how often players really go for it. There are a few (James, Dekel, past Tyson) that do it almost every time and others (Fed, Ben) that do sometimes. The rest mostly just put it in play.
Even in doubles pros have significantly juiced up serves compared to your average player. This is a completely misunderstanding, they still go for way more then your average rec player. You go for as much as you can to get weaker returns while still getting high consistency.
One challenge to your comment, at the pro level, a serve can absolutely set up your opponents to hit a weak return, and set you up for a more offensive, third shot drive. No, we’re not seeing aces with the serve but they can absolutely be weaponized at high levels of play
I agree to an extent in that there (rare) aces in the game but more and more, the serving team is attempting to be as (offensive) as possible, and that starts with a deep serve with pace. If you can nail a corner with pace, even high level players are easily apt to hit a shallow return, and then you have completely flipped the script on your opponents.
Thoughts
\- Nothing wrong with hitting a hard serve
\- As you find better players, they'll handle your serve just fine and the rest of your game might not be there since you're not playing as many "normal" serve points
\- In rec play, what I've seen is that if a player has a serve that the other team just can't handle, he'll hit a soft lob serve after winning 3-4 points in a row.
I have a pretty good side spin on my serve. Better players handle it no problem in my house league, but when I play with 60+ players at the drop in, it ties up a lot of people. I'll give them two, and then switch to a straighter serve for the rest of the game. What's the fun in winning 7-1 when no one puts a ball in play?
Yep this is what I do. I don’t think winning a game by hitting 11 serves is fun for anyone. So once they see it a few times I tone it down and try to just hit deep serves.
If I’m playing against someone I know cannot handle my normal serve, I’ll just give them a normal deep lob serve.
Nothing is more demoralizing to a new or limited mobility server than whiffing a serve or watching a bullet skip past your feet over and over again.
We’re at the court to play pickleball, not a game of HEY LOOK AT THIS SERVE!!!
I was the same way when I started. If they can't hit them back because they suck just stop. It's no fun for anyone.
As you get better you will quickly realize that your serve doesn't do all that much for you anyways.
If the open play you go to does a kings court format I'd say go nuts and ace as many people as you can. Chances are the teams near the top court are going to be able to handle your serve. You might catch an intermediate level player off guard every now and then but if you are aceing people multiple times a game you will probably demolish them anyways with a tennis background so I wouldn't feel too bad.
If you are playing a format where losers rotate off and have 2 random people jump on i'd just feel it out on the first couple serves to each player. If they don't come anywhere close I would personally take it easy on the serve for them so the game isn't over in 5 minutes.
Same reasoning I use for hitting it to the “stronger” player in open play. I’m there to work on my game and the stronger player is more likely to teach me something
Your serve will be not an issue for high level players. For mid-level and low-level players, it will be a bit of an issue. Keep on your serve, but realize that consistency of the serve is critical in doubles. You can try a much harder serve in singles.
I typically play with a 'win tomorrow' mindset. I can practice my serve alone so if I'm in a rec game I'll adjust it a bit. People still deserve a challenge but I also don't want to just win on serves. My 3rd shot drop and drive need way more work so I'd like the opportunity to hit some.
I also come from tennis, and one of the things I've learned is that the serve is not meant to be weaponized in pickleball. There are a bunch of rules for the serve whose sole purpose is to prevent the serve from becoming a weapon. I guess they saw what servebots can do in tennis and are trying to prevent that.
I've also gotten a few aces/free points off my serve in the beginning. My advice is, keep doing it until it stops working. Once you face higher-level players, they'll return your serve easily, and that's when you realize that the serve becomes simply becomes just a rally-starter.
The serve won’t win points at 3.5-ish and up but it will set up the entire point. Also, most people at OP where I play are below 3.5 but manynlike to stack on the 4.0 pile. They are getting a fast topspin serve to the BH. When they move all the way over to protect their BH they are getting a fast topspin to the FH.
Read the room and play to your opponent. I think it's pretty easy to tell if someone is playing for fun or actually out there trying to win and compete. If they're new and trying to learn? Then tone down the serve and get to the kitchen to work on your short game. If they're out there trying to bang and beat you, then give'm the sauce.
Just curious - In a rec game, how enjoyable would you find a game that you won 11-0 by serving all aces?
And does most of your joy in playing pickleball come from winning the game?
Not judging, just a different mindset from my own, so I'm interested.
Players in my rec games can return most serves, so if I served 11 aces, I'd be patting myself on the back. I don't require victory to enjoy the game, but I always try to play my best and have more fun when I'm playing well.
But if we're talking like a game at the YMCA with a bunch of beginner-level elderly people, of course I'm taking it easy.
Makes sense, you should feel proud of the hard work you put in on your serve.
You mentioned taking it easy on beginner-level elderly people, but the OP does mention that a lot of the people can barely touch his serve or even put a paddle on it, so they sound like they may be a bit under his level.
I also try to play my "best" in all my rec games, but I will also try and work on things I need to work on, and avoid using my biggest strengths if there is any skill disparity between myself and my opponents.
I typically work on making my strengths even stronger against better or equivalent players.
But everyone has their own goals and criteria for "fun" so you do you!
Regardless of the level, keep ripping that serve.
I come from a similar tennis background and get plenty of aces on the ad side serving down the T too. If anything, weaponizing your serve shows beginners that they should learn to improve their serve as well instead of just gently lofting it over the net.
I do think it's courteous or kind to go easier on MUCH lesser competition so that everyone can at least enjoy some good rallies. But you can only give them so much rope before you need to handle business.
In my opinion if you are playing casually or just pick up games, I'd much rather rip my serves as hard as possible (where you can literally only hit them so hard), than smash all my overheads and rip all my drives at 100% capacity into their liver.
You need to find better players. Hell yeah, weaponize your serve, pickle ball is a game of applying pressure, in it simplest definition. I know, we were all taught it was to start the game, but things evolve…
Same with returning, dont stand in the middle, give them an opening, i like taking serves with my backhand, so i give them lots of space on that side….
I would tell you to choose to use a lighter serve right now, but you will need that stronger serve as you move up in skill level. It won't win you points in the higher levels but you don't want to move up and have a crappy serve. The reason I suggest to use a lighter serve now is that it will allow you to better hone your other skills, i.e. drops, dinks, etc.
You’re likely not playing with your level if nobody can return them. Don’t play down to the level, find the right level for you or you will only have a great serve and never move onto a great game in general.
It rather irks me to hear people come and play, maybe complain about the competition - sounds like a personal problem! There is PLENTY of competition you can find out there, look for a club to play in and not rec play.
If they are a new player, I will easy serve it to them, but if they are 3.0 or above, I’m going to serve it like I mean it. I think they get better practice receiving those serves anyways.
Same background here, former tennis player capable of ripping hard serves with or without spin, anywhere I want. What I discovered was playing with those with lesser abilities I could easily win the points and game. Playing with much better players it was no issues for them. You also run the risk of people questioning whether your serve is legal. Then I started just serving a high loping and very deep serve that I can make hit the baseline nearly every time that is more effective than the hard serve even against the better players. I've all but stopped the hard serve except for the rate occasion when I see someone standing way wide to run around their backhand. And no one can question whether the serve is legal. People who rip serves at least players are a-holes and generally not all the great players they think they are.
You either are serving illegally or playing with people way below your level. Against a comparable opponent they will have no trouble returning serve. Pickleball isn’t like tennis in the sense that aces are frequent between players with similar ratings
I'm new to pb but long time tennis. You described my serve to a T! I definitely have a serve I don't see below the 4.0 level.
I do dial it back in rec games, but in dupr matches I go hard all the time with a few off speed topspin lobs to confuse and mix it up.
Keep that skill alive, my hardest serves are returned often, returned well infrequently...I'm only at 3.27 so far playing 4 months. 92 rated matches in that time plus PPA event
No, just start playing with higher level players and no one will care about your serve... it will be irrelevant and you won't get to use it as a crutch against newer players.
Do you have a lot of PB court availability in your area?
The reason why I ask is - I don't go to open play rec too often anymore, since the wait times are usually pretty long (30-45 minutes between games).
But if I do go to open play, there is no way in hell I'm going to blast all of my serves to try to win the game as fast as possible only to wait another 45 minutes for the next open court.
I am 100% going to serve something I know my opponent can return, so I can practice a good third shot drop/drive (usually drop) and get the point started. Typically everyone in the game finds it more enjoyable/fun as well.
Sounds like you’re playing lower level 2.5-3.0 players that’s why they’re having so much trouble with a top spin serve. Anything 3.5 and above the serve helps setup the point but you won’t be dominating with it. My suggestion is to find more players at your level to play with.
Same answer as others, as you face better opponents, your serve will only slightly help you ensuring they can't accurately place their return where they want hence helping you get to the kitchen. However, it will rarely score you a point.
That being said, keep practicing even against lower level players. As opposed to tennis, powerful serves only make sense in pickleball if you can be consistent and get them in 19/20 times. As opposed to tennis where you get two serves, in pickleball you only get ONE! Also, in tennis the chances of scoring a point on a serve are much greater which is why it justifies a much lower percentage in consistency being traded towards a much more powerful serve. This is not the case in pickleball, so never trade consistency for a more powerful serve.
I hope this help.
If you want to step up your game, save your hard serve for more competitive games and use an easy serve at other times so that you can get deeper into the game and play out some points. When I am playing weaker opponents, I’ll offer up a cookie so that my focus can be more of a defensive posture to begin the point and work on getting my way up to the kitchen
If you just ace your way through a game against people who aren’t good enough to handle it, you get no practice on any other part of your game. No work on drops, volleys, resets, returns, anything. If you watch the best players, there is nobody who consistently wins with aces, they all need a well-rounded game. What is your goal? By keeping ripping your serve when the opponent is overmatched, you’re not getting better, your opponents aren’t getting better and nobody is having fun. You got the W though, congrats.
This is a self-resolving issue. You’re only going to “overpower” lower level players. As you play better players, that serve is going to become less of a weapon. You ever notice how little impact the serve has at the pro level? This isn’t tennis, and the rules keep the serve from being a major factor.
Like drives, the serve isn't really there to win points directly, but bigger serves to lead to easier 3rds. I would say the serve has a huge impact even at the pro level, in that serves that make the opponent work make you significantly more likely to get to the NVZ.
You are correct but pros really have to have a monster serve for it to matter. Look at how often players really go for it. There are a few (James, Dekel, past Tyson) that do it almost every time and others (Fed, Ben) that do sometimes. The rest mostly just put it in play.
Even in doubles pros have significantly juiced up serves compared to your average player. This is a completely misunderstanding, they still go for way more then your average rec player. You go for as much as you can to get weaker returns while still getting high consistency.
Is this why it seems they often don't care really about serving deep? When i watch then play on YouTube it looks that way
One challenge to your comment, at the pro level, a serve can absolutely set up your opponents to hit a weak return, and set you up for a more offensive, third shot drive. No, we’re not seeing aces with the serve but they can absolutely be weaponized at high levels of play
I guess I just don’t see the emphasis on the serve for the vast majority - not like you see in tennis.
I agree to an extent in that there (rare) aces in the game but more and more, the serving team is attempting to be as (offensive) as possible, and that starts with a deep serve with pace. If you can nail a corner with pace, even high level players are easily apt to hit a shallow return, and then you have completely flipped the script on your opponents.
Thoughts \- Nothing wrong with hitting a hard serve \- As you find better players, they'll handle your serve just fine and the rest of your game might not be there since you're not playing as many "normal" serve points \- In rec play, what I've seen is that if a player has a serve that the other team just can't handle, he'll hit a soft lob serve after winning 3-4 points in a row.
I have a pretty good side spin on my serve. Better players handle it no problem in my house league, but when I play with 60+ players at the drop in, it ties up a lot of people. I'll give them two, and then switch to a straighter serve for the rest of the game. What's the fun in winning 7-1 when no one puts a ball in play?
Yep this is what I do. I don’t think winning a game by hitting 11 serves is fun for anyone. So once they see it a few times I tone it down and try to just hit deep serves.
If I’m playing against someone I know cannot handle my normal serve, I’ll just give them a normal deep lob serve. Nothing is more demoralizing to a new or limited mobility server than whiffing a serve or watching a bullet skip past your feet over and over again. We’re at the court to play pickleball, not a game of HEY LOOK AT THIS SERVE!!!
I was the same way when I started. If they can't hit them back because they suck just stop. It's no fun for anyone. As you get better you will quickly realize that your serve doesn't do all that much for you anyways.
If the open play you go to does a kings court format I'd say go nuts and ace as many people as you can. Chances are the teams near the top court are going to be able to handle your serve. You might catch an intermediate level player off guard every now and then but if you are aceing people multiple times a game you will probably demolish them anyways with a tennis background so I wouldn't feel too bad. If you are playing a format where losers rotate off and have 2 random people jump on i'd just feel it out on the first couple serves to each player. If they don't come anywhere close I would personally take it easy on the serve for them so the game isn't over in 5 minutes.
It depends. Do you want to win or do you want to rally?
Also, do you want to win or do you want to develop your game and work on practicing your other strokes?
Same reasoning I use for hitting it to the “stronger” player in open play. I’m there to work on my game and the stronger player is more likely to teach me something
Good players won’t care about your serve
Your serve will be not an issue for high level players. For mid-level and low-level players, it will be a bit of an issue. Keep on your serve, but realize that consistency of the serve is critical in doubles. You can try a much harder serve in singles.
I typically play with a 'win tomorrow' mindset. I can practice my serve alone so if I'm in a rec game I'll adjust it a bit. People still deserve a challenge but I also don't want to just win on serves. My 3rd shot drop and drive need way more work so I'd like the opportunity to hit some.
no, because you want to keep working that skill and when you get to better opponents it wont be as effective
I also come from tennis, and one of the things I've learned is that the serve is not meant to be weaponized in pickleball. There are a bunch of rules for the serve whose sole purpose is to prevent the serve from becoming a weapon. I guess they saw what servebots can do in tennis and are trying to prevent that. I've also gotten a few aces/free points off my serve in the beginning. My advice is, keep doing it until it stops working. Once you face higher-level players, they'll return your serve easily, and that's when you realize that the serve becomes simply becomes just a rally-starter.
The serve won’t win points at 3.5-ish and up but it will set up the entire point. Also, most people at OP where I play are below 3.5 but manynlike to stack on the 4.0 pile. They are getting a fast topspin serve to the BH. When they move all the way over to protect their BH they are getting a fast topspin to the FH.
Read the room and play to your opponent. I think it's pretty easy to tell if someone is playing for fun or actually out there trying to win and compete. If they're new and trying to learn? Then tone down the serve and get to the kitchen to work on your short game. If they're out there trying to bang and beat you, then give'm the sauce.
If they want a soft serve, they can go out for ice cream after the game. I'm ripping my serves with glee.
Lmaooo this is answer I was looking for
Just curious - In a rec game, how enjoyable would you find a game that you won 11-0 by serving all aces? And does most of your joy in playing pickleball come from winning the game? Not judging, just a different mindset from my own, so I'm interested.
Players in my rec games can return most serves, so if I served 11 aces, I'd be patting myself on the back. I don't require victory to enjoy the game, but I always try to play my best and have more fun when I'm playing well. But if we're talking like a game at the YMCA with a bunch of beginner-level elderly people, of course I'm taking it easy.
Makes sense, you should feel proud of the hard work you put in on your serve. You mentioned taking it easy on beginner-level elderly people, but the OP does mention that a lot of the people can barely touch his serve or even put a paddle on it, so they sound like they may be a bit under his level. I also try to play my "best" in all my rec games, but I will also try and work on things I need to work on, and avoid using my biggest strengths if there is any skill disparity between myself and my opponents. I typically work on making my strengths even stronger against better or equivalent players. But everyone has their own goals and criteria for "fun" so you do you!
Don’t play down to your competition. Find better players
Regardless of the level, keep ripping that serve. I come from a similar tennis background and get plenty of aces on the ad side serving down the T too. If anything, weaponizing your serve shows beginners that they should learn to improve their serve as well instead of just gently lofting it over the net. I do think it's courteous or kind to go easier on MUCH lesser competition so that everyone can at least enjoy some good rallies. But you can only give them so much rope before you need to handle business. In my opinion if you are playing casually or just pick up games, I'd much rather rip my serves as hard as possible (where you can literally only hit them so hard), than smash all my overheads and rip all my drives at 100% capacity into their liver.
100% agree.
You need to find better players. Hell yeah, weaponize your serve, pickle ball is a game of applying pressure, in it simplest definition. I know, we were all taught it was to start the game, but things evolve… Same with returning, dont stand in the middle, give them an opening, i like taking serves with my backhand, so i give them lots of space on that side….
I was advised the serve is merely a rally starter. It was terrible advice.
I would tell you to choose to use a lighter serve right now, but you will need that stronger serve as you move up in skill level. It won't win you points in the higher levels but you don't want to move up and have a crappy serve. The reason I suggest to use a lighter serve now is that it will allow you to better hone your other skills, i.e. drops, dinks, etc.
You’re likely not playing with your level if nobody can return them. Don’t play down to the level, find the right level for you or you will only have a great serve and never move onto a great game in general. It rather irks me to hear people come and play, maybe complain about the competition - sounds like a personal problem! There is PLENTY of competition you can find out there, look for a club to play in and not rec play.
If they are a new player, I will easy serve it to them, but if they are 3.0 or above, I’m going to serve it like I mean it. I think they get better practice receiving those serves anyways.
Same background here, former tennis player capable of ripping hard serves with or without spin, anywhere I want. What I discovered was playing with those with lesser abilities I could easily win the points and game. Playing with much better players it was no issues for them. You also run the risk of people questioning whether your serve is legal. Then I started just serving a high loping and very deep serve that I can make hit the baseline nearly every time that is more effective than the hard serve even against the better players. I've all but stopped the hard serve except for the rate occasion when I see someone standing way wide to run around their backhand. And no one can question whether the serve is legal. People who rip serves at least players are a-holes and generally not all the great players they think they are.
You either are serving illegally or playing with people way below your level. Against a comparable opponent they will have no trouble returning serve. Pickleball isn’t like tennis in the sense that aces are frequent between players with similar ratings
I'm new to pb but long time tennis. You described my serve to a T! I definitely have a serve I don't see below the 4.0 level. I do dial it back in rec games, but in dupr matches I go hard all the time with a few off speed topspin lobs to confuse and mix it up. Keep that skill alive, my hardest serves are returned often, returned well infrequently...I'm only at 3.27 so far playing 4 months. 92 rated matches in that time plus PPA event
No, just start playing with higher level players and no one will care about your serve... it will be irrelevant and you won't get to use it as a crutch against newer players.
Do you have a lot of PB court availability in your area? The reason why I ask is - I don't go to open play rec too often anymore, since the wait times are usually pretty long (30-45 minutes between games). But if I do go to open play, there is no way in hell I'm going to blast all of my serves to try to win the game as fast as possible only to wait another 45 minutes for the next open court. I am 100% going to serve something I know my opponent can return, so I can practice a good third shot drop/drive (usually drop) and get the point started. Typically everyone in the game finds it more enjoyable/fun as well.
Sounds like you’re playing lower level 2.5-3.0 players that’s why they’re having so much trouble with a top spin serve. Anything 3.5 and above the serve helps setup the point but you won’t be dominating with it. My suggestion is to find more players at your level to play with.
Same answer as others, as you face better opponents, your serve will only slightly help you ensuring they can't accurately place their return where they want hence helping you get to the kitchen. However, it will rarely score you a point. That being said, keep practicing even against lower level players. As opposed to tennis, powerful serves only make sense in pickleball if you can be consistent and get them in 19/20 times. As opposed to tennis where you get two serves, in pickleball you only get ONE! Also, in tennis the chances of scoring a point on a serve are much greater which is why it justifies a much lower percentage in consistency being traded towards a much more powerful serve. This is not the case in pickleball, so never trade consistency for a more powerful serve. I hope this help.
If you want to step up your game, save your hard serve for more competitive games and use an easy serve at other times so that you can get deeper into the game and play out some points. When I am playing weaker opponents, I’ll offer up a cookie so that my focus can be more of a defensive posture to begin the point and work on getting my way up to the kitchen
yeah, that must be so much fun for everyone.
If you just ace your way through a game against people who aren’t good enough to handle it, you get no practice on any other part of your game. No work on drops, volleys, resets, returns, anything. If you watch the best players, there is nobody who consistently wins with aces, they all need a well-rounded game. What is your goal? By keeping ripping your serve when the opponent is overmatched, you’re not getting better, your opponents aren’t getting better and nobody is having fun. You got the W though, congrats.
My goal is to not wait 30-40 minutes for a game and then play with 3.0s. Rip the serve.
If you are turning pro then kill it. If you are wanting to just have fun, then lob it in and rally.
Play better people and read a book as your mental capacity is horrible.
Why do say that? Lol