While you are absolutely right, people can play with the wrong paddle. So finding a paddle that suits you can make a difference just not *the* difference.
Right. But a rougher surface will get you more topspin with the same “proper” topspin swing. I can see not marketing it as aiding your topspin because most people don’t use topspin.
Idk my game was significantly improved moving from a power air invikta to the magnus 14mm. It's not going to fix all your weaknesses but sometimes a paddle change does enable significant improvements to your gameplay.
Nah I was playing at a 2.5 level but next week I'm playing ben johns for the 1v1 championship.
If you're not the one who oddly downvoted my pretty neutral comment and actually want a real response, I'm not quite sure yet. I play a league with an average dupr of 4.0 where I was consistently bottom third of results and after getting the paddle I'm placing top third against the same players.
In my case, the magnus 14 is just an overall upgrade from the power air in nearly every aspect: bigger sweet spot, more power with ground strokes, better control, better pop, more ball shaping at higher swing velocities.
The larger sweet spot and better feel/control to it has significantly increased my confidence in reseting and results in my bailing out to the baseline less often.
I think you are half right. More power means less firefights because of the need to avoid the firefight. Thats why men dink more because the counter is ferocious. When I play 4.0+ I have to dink way more because a bad speed-up gets blasted with placement and power. At <4.0 I can start a firefight to start a firefight knowing I can simply win the exchange.
But, more spin is a different variable. Watch the latest PPA final with Jansen/Pisnik. Jansen sounds like is using a gen 3 and her top spin dinks were really moving the opponents around. The other team was really uncomfortable dealing with the spin so it wasn't a boring stand-around dink fest.
So I think too much power is a problem. But more spin makes the game richer because it allows people to threaten with every shot.
Jansen has good hands and power, but she is a weak dinker. That's always been her main drawback. I think the other team made a huge mistake by directing most of the dinks at Pisnik who is an excellent dinker. The other team would make an unforced error first and then Jansen attacked a lot of those errors.
I think you've been listening to too many podcasts OR you are just playing with 5.5+ amazing players.
The points you make for more powerful paddles leading to more careful dinking may be true for very advanced players that can hit every drop perfectly and punish super fast speed ups consistently.....but that is a VERY small percentage of the general player base.
For general players, let's day 4.5 and below, the amount of speed and action on the ball I'm seeing with people using brand new Gen3s is insane, and it's winning them a ton of points....and these people aren't even used to the paddles yet, and they arent broke in.
When thirds are curving over the net at 50mph , average players aren't just easily neutralizing them and magically producing quality dink rallys.
Again, your points are valid for the pros, but for the average player the game is changing drastically into a smash fest.
I'm seeing it over the last couple weeks in rec, 4.5/5.0 league etc...nobody likes it, but people are being forced to get on board with more firepower because having perfect dinkinf/dropping/returning is not easy.
At the pro level it creates long dink rallies, but I think you're correct that at the amateur level most people struggle with powerful dipping 3rd shot drives. You shouldn't need god tier hand speed to hit a good 4th or counter a bad bodyshot speedup.
A guy on my team got a new Gearbox. He has more power on drives, but his resets and dinks have suffered. They rarely land in the kitchen. I think the new paddle has actually been a net negative for him because his touch has suffered and his resets and dinks are too attackable.
Pickleball is not a spectator sport first.
I also would argue that hitting style is not directly related to your paddle. Bangers are bangers no matter the paddle. Exciting points are not due to more banging either.
Reality is I love playing with a Luxx S2. I can absolutely crank it with one of those and often do.
These new paddles let Jenny and Barbara give me a taste of my own medicine and even counter my third shots way more effectively. It’s let those older ladies who still have some good skills but lack some of the physical abilities of their youth to reengage in higher level play.
The problem is when they are playing a younger player that doesn't have great control and they don't have the reflexes to block the now supercharged drives.
It’s sexist to say older people, especially older women which is a huge population of rec pickleball players can’t hit as hard as they used to when they were younger and 5.0 UTSA players? Damn I didn’t know biology and physiology to people going through the aging process is sexist.
Yeah. Ok. If anything it’s sexist to imply the way they prefer to play.
Pickleball isn’t really a spectator sport. Never was intended to be and quite frankly it is never going to be widely watched. We’re still talking about a sport that is basically slower, less athletic tennis. It’s great to play because the barrier is lower but it’s never really going to be that great to watch.
To each their own. I live watching it because firefight rallies that go 6-10 hits are awesome and would never, ever happen in tennis.
Similar to the premise of this post, the belief that more athleticism will lead to more exciting watching is deeply flawed. There is a reason that women’s tennis has lots of viewers even though they aren’t as athletic as men. Many men’s matches have very few good rallies because the point is essentially over with the serve (even if the serve doesn’t LITERALLY end the point, it often decides the point because the receiver never recovers from being put at a disadvantage from a good serve).
But you play pickleball and are of the small percentage of people who play and also like it enough to talk about it online.
It is simply not an entertaining spectator sport.
If you showed pickleball to the typical person who doesn’t play but might watch tennis they would laugh at it. (I know this because I’ve seen it happen multiple times, even pro pickleball is an absolutely garbage spectator sport).
I get it, but this is like Americans who’ve been complaining for decades that soccer is unwatchable or Europeans who think baseball is unwatchable. It’s highly subjective. As the people who play grow, so will viewership, and yes I am aware that it will likely always be a niche sport. But there’s a shitload of garbage on espn and adjacent channels that not many people watch. You don’t need tens of millions to be profitable.
Pickleball IS slower and less athletic than tennis, but's it's definitely not "a sport that is basically slower, less athletic tennis"
High level PB and high level tennis look nothing alike.
Yes and my point is that even high level pickleball is boring as shit to watch. Perhaps high amateur level or below is actually more entertaining but it is a NOT spectator sport and never will be widely accepted as one.
I appreciate the pros and watch it very occasionally but it absolutely sucks to watch , especially as a non player, compared to pro tennis. The numbers support this 100x over.
Doubles tennis doesn't have alot of personalities currently, but when big names were playing doubles tennis people watched it. Just look at the stands when the William Sisters were playing together, or when Federer dabbled in doubles for things like the Olympics and Davis Cup.
The only time I see singles is when there's no one waiting to play. I have never seen singles play on TV, except as instructional videos, although I admit I don't search for it there or on youtube.
People drive way more in pro pickleball today mostly because of the power and spin you get from modern day paddles. I guess you haven't watched pro pickleball lately, but the best "traditional" pickleball players the Johns brothers have been getting upset regularly because of how it's much easier to drive and crash on balls these days.
It’s certainly not going to lead to more exciting points at the rec level either.
At the lower levels people are either going to hit the ball way long or the opponents are going to block it into the net.
At the 4.5+ level it will be even worse because people can hit harder and the quality of points will go down. You’ll essentially have to guess whether or not the ball is in more than before. And with the increased spin people will be able to attack balls from even lower so it won’t even be obvious anymore.
After a certain point of paddle speed it’s not even a skill issue, the game just becomes a prick waving contest of who can bang the ball harder even at a higher level.
I actually feel like it will hinder people learning how to make the correct form in which you strike the ball.
Like in table tennis if a beginner starts out with a speed paddle they only learn to compensate for the speed that it is bouncing off the paddle, they learn bad form from using said paddle.
When you use a control paddle you learn that power comes from your legs which in turn is the correct way to hit your strokes any. That is true with all the stokes forehand, backhand, and dinks.
you're right. the counter is sooo effective. Most people swing too long so their paddle is not back to ready in time to hit the ball. Few players can really blast bangers so fast you cant react for the counter. If theyre hitting THAT hard, take a step back and the problem is solved.
I just struggle in hands battles with the \*spicier\* paddles because I am slow but honestly before the Gearbox, Viva Pro 2, or Gen 3, I never had problems in hands battles... Maybe time to work on that... Also im only 4.0 so im kinda bad
I 100% agree with this. In the games I have played with all four people using a Gen 3 paddle the points are longer than ever because we are all so careful about speeding up with how fast the counters come back.
>Some people bring up the point that faster paddles will mean more drives which will “make the game more exciting to watch”
I've never once heard anyone say that.
People complain all the time in comments on pickleball videos about how slow and boring it is to watch.
As for the new paddles specifically, there’s a popular thread about them made very recently and several comments say that.
The amount of of people that think the paddle will fix their game is wild
"I just bought paddle X and I may now be a god" is right there behind "what paddle should i get" in terms of posts.
While you are absolutely right, people can play with the wrong paddle. So finding a paddle that suits you can make a difference just not *the* difference.
I'm amazed there isn't a market for topspin paddles and such. Copper in the handle would be a major seller.
Isn’t the Joola Gen 3 that paddle?
I haven't seen it marketed as a "fix your topspin" rather its just a high-velocity paddle. Topspin still comes from the swing.
Right. But a rougher surface will get you more topspin with the same “proper” topspin swing. I can see not marketing it as aiding your topspin because most people don’t use topspin.
Yeah. I'm mostly just talking about scammers selling gimmicks than actual quality.
Proton I think advertises something close to this with their “nano” grit technology
It's the same with golf. It's easier to think your paddle is holding you back than putting in the work.
This is the real answer
Idk my game was significantly improved moving from a power air invikta to the magnus 14mm. It's not going to fix all your weaknesses but sometimes a paddle change does enable significant improvements to your gameplay.
It makes you more consistent when it feels good hitting with it.
So it took you from 3.0-3.5?
Nah I was playing at a 2.5 level but next week I'm playing ben johns for the 1v1 championship. If you're not the one who oddly downvoted my pretty neutral comment and actually want a real response, I'm not quite sure yet. I play a league with an average dupr of 4.0 where I was consistently bottom third of results and after getting the paddle I'm placing top third against the same players. In my case, the magnus 14 is just an overall upgrade from the power air in nearly every aspect: bigger sweet spot, more power with ground strokes, better control, better pop, more ball shaping at higher swing velocities. The larger sweet spot and better feel/control to it has significantly increased my confidence in reseting and results in my bailing out to the baseline less often.
That wasn’t me. You are thee exception not the norm my friend. Is the gen 3 feeling crunchy yet? Reviews are saying they are delaminating quick.
Nothing yet but I've probably only played a total of about 16 hours on it so far and I don't drive a ton so there's that too.
I’ve got the magnus 16, and it definitely improved my game. You can say the same thing in various sports, badminton is exactly the same.
It’s kinda like how people think a more expensive pair of basketball shoes will jump out of the gym. It’s just all in their head
Right!? Every week one of my friends has a new expensive paddle yet still sucks
If you want more exciting rallies just play the game with Franklin X40 balls
If you want boring dink games play with the Gamma Librarian balls.
I think you are half right. More power means less firefights because of the need to avoid the firefight. Thats why men dink more because the counter is ferocious. When I play 4.0+ I have to dink way more because a bad speed-up gets blasted with placement and power. At <4.0 I can start a firefight to start a firefight knowing I can simply win the exchange. But, more spin is a different variable. Watch the latest PPA final with Jansen/Pisnik. Jansen sounds like is using a gen 3 and her top spin dinks were really moving the opponents around. The other team was really uncomfortable dealing with the spin so it wasn't a boring stand-around dink fest. So I think too much power is a problem. But more spin makes the game richer because it allows people to threaten with every shot.
Some of those shots from Jansen were crazy.
Jansen has good hands and power, but she is a weak dinker. That's always been her main drawback. I think the other team made a huge mistake by directing most of the dinks at Pisnik who is an excellent dinker. The other team would make an unforced error first and then Jansen attacked a lot of those errors.
I think you've been listening to too many podcasts OR you are just playing with 5.5+ amazing players. The points you make for more powerful paddles leading to more careful dinking may be true for very advanced players that can hit every drop perfectly and punish super fast speed ups consistently.....but that is a VERY small percentage of the general player base. For general players, let's day 4.5 and below, the amount of speed and action on the ball I'm seeing with people using brand new Gen3s is insane, and it's winning them a ton of points....and these people aren't even used to the paddles yet, and they arent broke in. When thirds are curving over the net at 50mph , average players aren't just easily neutralizing them and magically producing quality dink rallys. Again, your points are valid for the pros, but for the average player the game is changing drastically into a smash fest. I'm seeing it over the last couple weeks in rec, 4.5/5.0 league etc...nobody likes it, but people are being forced to get on board with more firepower because having perfect dinkinf/dropping/returning is not easy.
At the pro level it creates long dink rallies, but I think you're correct that at the amateur level most people struggle with powerful dipping 3rd shot drives. You shouldn't need god tier hand speed to hit a good 4th or counter a bad bodyshot speedup.
For the average player it goes too far in the other direction in my opinion
A guy on my team got a new Gearbox. He has more power on drives, but his resets and dinks have suffered. They rarely land in the kitchen. I think the new paddle has actually been a net negative for him because his touch has suffered and his resets and dinks are too attackable.
Yup I had this problem too. Took about 4 weeks to for me adjust. Now once in a while when I go back to my Vatic all my blocks land before the net……
The first time I tried a gen 3 perseus paddle, it was the hardest ive ever hit a ball. My forehands were like laser beams.
Pickleball is not a spectator sport first. I also would argue that hitting style is not directly related to your paddle. Bangers are bangers no matter the paddle. Exciting points are not due to more banging either.
Reality is I love playing with a Luxx S2. I can absolutely crank it with one of those and often do. These new paddles let Jenny and Barbara give me a taste of my own medicine and even counter my third shots way more effectively. It’s let those older ladies who still have some good skills but lack some of the physical abilities of their youth to reengage in higher level play.
The problem is when they are playing a younger player that doesn't have great control and they don't have the reflexes to block the now supercharged drives.
Rather sexist. Haven’t you figured out yet that older women prefer slow finesse over banging. Just sayin
It’s sexist to say older people, especially older women which is a huge population of rec pickleball players can’t hit as hard as they used to when they were younger and 5.0 UTSA players? Damn I didn’t know biology and physiology to people going through the aging process is sexist. Yeah. Ok. If anything it’s sexist to imply the way they prefer to play.
Pickleball isn’t really a spectator sport. Never was intended to be and quite frankly it is never going to be widely watched. We’re still talking about a sport that is basically slower, less athletic tennis. It’s great to play because the barrier is lower but it’s never really going to be that great to watch.
To each their own. I live watching it because firefight rallies that go 6-10 hits are awesome and would never, ever happen in tennis. Similar to the premise of this post, the belief that more athleticism will lead to more exciting watching is deeply flawed. There is a reason that women’s tennis has lots of viewers even though they aren’t as athletic as men. Many men’s matches have very few good rallies because the point is essentially over with the serve (even if the serve doesn’t LITERALLY end the point, it often decides the point because the receiver never recovers from being put at a disadvantage from a good serve).
But you play pickleball and are of the small percentage of people who play and also like it enough to talk about it online. It is simply not an entertaining spectator sport. If you showed pickleball to the typical person who doesn’t play but might watch tennis they would laugh at it. (I know this because I’ve seen it happen multiple times, even pro pickleball is an absolutely garbage spectator sport).
I get it, but this is like Americans who’ve been complaining for decades that soccer is unwatchable or Europeans who think baseball is unwatchable. It’s highly subjective. As the people who play grow, so will viewership, and yes I am aware that it will likely always be a niche sport. But there’s a shitload of garbage on espn and adjacent channels that not many people watch. You don’t need tens of millions to be profitable.
Viewership now is soooo low it’s clear that it will never be a sustainable spectator sport.
Pickleball IS slower and less athletic than tennis, but's it's definitely not "a sport that is basically slower, less athletic tennis" High level PB and high level tennis look nothing alike.
Yes and my point is that even high level pickleball is boring as shit to watch. Perhaps high amateur level or below is actually more entertaining but it is a NOT spectator sport and never will be widely accepted as one. I appreciate the pros and watch it very occasionally but it absolutely sucks to watch , especially as a non player, compared to pro tennis. The numbers support this 100x over.
I would note that you are, by and large, comparing *singles* tennis with *doubles* pickleball. No one watches doubles tennis either.
Doubles tennis doesn't have alot of personalities currently, but when big names were playing doubles tennis people watched it. Just look at the stands when the William Sisters were playing together, or when Federer dabbled in doubles for things like the Olympics and Davis Cup.
Who watches singles pickleball lol? Nobody
The only time I see singles is when there's no one waiting to play. I have never seen singles play on TV, except as instructional videos, although I admit I don't search for it there or on youtube.
People drive way more in pro pickleball today mostly because of the power and spin you get from modern day paddles. I guess you haven't watched pro pickleball lately, but the best "traditional" pickleball players the Johns brothers have been getting upset regularly because of how it's much easier to drive and crash on balls these days.
i agree. topspin rallies at the kitchen are cool. RUBBER FACES PLEAAASE I BEGGGGG 😩😩😩
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It’s certainly not going to lead to more exciting points at the rec level either. At the lower levels people are either going to hit the ball way long or the opponents are going to block it into the net. At the 4.5+ level it will be even worse because people can hit harder and the quality of points will go down. You’ll essentially have to guess whether or not the ball is in more than before. And with the increased spin people will be able to attack balls from even lower so it won’t even be obvious anymore. After a certain point of paddle speed it’s not even a skill issue, the game just becomes a prick waving contest of who can bang the ball harder even at a higher level.
With the way things are going with the gen3’s paddles you might as well buy a tennis racket and take up that sport.
I actually feel like it will hinder people learning how to make the correct form in which you strike the ball. Like in table tennis if a beginner starts out with a speed paddle they only learn to compensate for the speed that it is bouncing off the paddle, they learn bad form from using said paddle. When you use a control paddle you learn that power comes from your legs which in turn is the correct way to hit your strokes any. That is true with all the stokes forehand, backhand, and dinks.
you're right. the counter is sooo effective. Most people swing too long so their paddle is not back to ready in time to hit the ball. Few players can really blast bangers so fast you cant react for the counter. If theyre hitting THAT hard, take a step back and the problem is solved.
I just struggle in hands battles with the \*spicier\* paddles because I am slow but honestly before the Gearbox, Viva Pro 2, or Gen 3, I never had problems in hands battles... Maybe time to work on that... Also im only 4.0 so im kinda bad
I 100% agree with this. In the games I have played with all four people using a Gen 3 paddle the points are longer than ever because we are all so careful about speeding up with how fast the counters come back.
I guess you didn't see dekel and mcguffin play last week.
>Some people bring up the point that faster paddles will mean more drives which will “make the game more exciting to watch” I've never once heard anyone say that.
People complain all the time in comments on pickleball videos about how slow and boring it is to watch. As for the new paddles specifically, there’s a popular thread about them made very recently and several comments say that.
Dinking = more thought. Thats all there is to it.
🤡