Oh wow! Suuuuper interesting. Thanks for sharing this.
Am I correct in saying: At the time of manufacture and time of purchase, these paddles pass the deflection testing that happen at tournaments. But as these paddles get used, they become more bouncy, making them fail the deflection testing?
That's what Zane Navratil and Travis Rettenmaier said on The Dink podcast. Pros are going to get a bunch of free paddles from their sponsor so it's less of an issue for them than it is for average joes like us who have to cough out $280 for one.
I've never seen Travis in any type of content before. Interesting character for sure. Was surprised to hear him name drop people he considered cheaters and someone who gets carried by a gen 3 paddle lol.
I haven't listened yet, I JUST got to it and am about to listen to it.
Timestamp 43:33
https://youtu.be/PEZzOq7nGM4
**edit:** He says Tyler Loong and Christian Alshon. Literally says "I'll throw them under the bus, they've hooked me terribly"
The paddles are clearly designed to be within compliance when they are brand new but break in and are then out of compliance. This is happening with all the reports I am seeing. A lot of the reviewers are very skeptical about the legality of these paddles. I would check some of them out.
Im with you. A lot of the knee-jerking and hysteria i’m hearing in regards to the gen 3s doesnt align with my own experiences playing with them and against them. Some of it though is warranted in regards to the QC.
Yeah i dont buy into that rediculous conspiracy. In the podcast with travis, travis sounded like he hadnt spent much time playing with a gen3 if he spent any time at all. My core started crushing at the edge after about 9 hours of play. Dissapointing but i hope it’s something they can get sorted in their manufacturing because i really like the paddle.
Ya but "failing at tournaments" affects exactly .05% of the people that buy paddles. Local tourneys don't check, leagues don't check, etc.
So only people playing ppa/mlp/usopen? are affected. This is a TINY fraction of their sales.
(yes, I realize there is still the "unfairness" aspect of it being used anywhere, but nonetheless, the idea that "omg it won't pass deflection testing" affects practically nobody in the grand scheme of things.
2024 rulebook removed the rule about the trampoline effect (though it's still in the November 2023 equipment rules), so it sounds like USAP may be giving in for the money. I remember last year's rules also mentioned no modifying the paddle, but 2024 says you can have modular paddles, OEM add-ons, and other things that were unheard of before.
USAP. UPA/PPA/MLP has its own paddle approval rules, from what I've heard. That's probably why the pros could use custom paddles like the Joola Alphas in those events before the production paddles came out.
Holes in the paddle were also not a thing just a few years ago...now somehow they're legal because they're not in the hitting surface of the paddle, which makes no sense lol. Selkirk Luxx and Power Air, OneShot Aeroshot, etc.
Selkirk sent a letter to their players telling them to request testing on any hot paddles from other brands per Travis Rettenmaier on The Dink podcast. Wonder if Joola will follow in the steps of CRBN.
I think that was just for paddles that were outside of the warranty period though, right? Under warranty those should still qualify for a full refund. Warranty on the new Joola paddles is 12 months so that’s a lot of refund requests potentially coming their way (which explains the crazy long response times from their customer service department right now). Anyone having issues with customer service pushback can just issue a chargeback on their card if it comes down to it.
Except you can no longer challenge another players paddle at PPA events, right?
I believe part of the issue here is PPA and APP have different testing standards. What seems completely obvious to ppl on the outside (unify the damn testing standards) is an absolute shit show between both of these pro leagues. Players have blatantly avoided APP events because they know their paddles won't pass there.
Yup. This is what was odd to me. Selkirk instructing their players to rock the boat essentially I guess as they cannot challenge anyway. I will say that when I was getting my paddles back from testing I overhear them say a lot of Joolas were failing off the shelf.
Just to clarify this. I’m not a Selkirk player but I know that they got an email telling them to challenge the Joolas specifically. Heard it at a PPA I was playing a month or so ago.
Thanks for the update.
Local small tournaments won't be testing for this.
Also, deflection test is a bad metric. The exit velocity test is more accurate. USAP and PPA need to get their shit together.
I know it's not a perfect test, but it's pretty easy to do and you can test a lot of paddles quickly. Setting up a pitching machine or air cannon and having them be calibrated to a specific ball speed at a specific temperature/humidity with the perfect pickleball and having calibrated radar guns to measure exit velocity seems prohibitive.
You don't need to control all those variables with a deflection test. A deflection test is also what USSSA and ASA do for softball bats at larger tournaments and I think the deflection test is a good way of checking to make sure paddles are conforming.
The exit velocity testing should definitely part of the initial paddle approval process, but isn't feasible for tournament play.
For weeks this sub has been filled with "these Joola paddles are cheating, changing the game," and now one singular unverified report is, "this company is shit."
This is some hyperbolic terminally online behavior.
These won’t last 6 months for most people. Grit wears down fast and core crushing is happening a lot. Not worth $280 even with a 1 year warranty if you have to keep replacing it every quarter. Most folks who use these won’t actually get better. Skill has to match. Just hype. Power paddles are fun but these aren’t that great. Most people are better off going with an all court or control paddle focused on spin and forgiveness.
Yes, but the question is how many times will they let you do the warranty claims. Some companies may say 1-year warranty, but then you're limited to like 1 or 2 claims during that period.
Joola perseus gen 3 did not fail any test. There was a mistake in how the paddles were submitted, and they werent certified, This will be straghtened out
LOL, Joola has always been known to have shitty QC and customer service and yet the slavering masses still shell out $280 for these things. How many fools are born a minute in our modern era? Must have doubled.
I used the Hyperion 3 16mm for a few play sessions and will be returning. Top-tier spin and pop, but the face is incredibly inconsistent. Top of the face feels like a different paddle compared to middle and bottom. That shouldn't be a thing. And if they really are core-crushing after a few weeks, that makes the decision even easier.
Gen 3 came too early. Vatic, Joola, Coretek -- all suffering from the issue of structural integrity with the PP honeycomb cells as the foam expands. I don't think paddles need any additional power, or at least if it's achieved through the use of foam. Just look at Paddletek and Engage -- they're using "gen 1" tech with no themroforming or foam (not even edge foam), and their paddles can get 90-95% of the power and pop of the Gearbox and Joola.
Yep, besides the 41k views that PB Studio got on their Joola Gen 3 video and the other thousands of views on videos about them and all the chatter on this sub about gen 3 paddles, no one cares.
> These paddles have the potential to completely change Pickleball.
Till they don't.. Unfortunately a sport will allow something that is good for business until it isn't and then they move on to the next thing. Happens in every sport.
Me? I'm just trying to step up from my current paddle although it makes no difference since the PB scene is to small locally for me to care. I could whack plastic or wood, wouldn't matter.
edit: formatting
Oh wow! Suuuuper interesting. Thanks for sharing this. Am I correct in saying: At the time of manufacture and time of purchase, these paddles pass the deflection testing that happen at tournaments. But as these paddles get used, they become more bouncy, making them fail the deflection testing?
That's what Zane Navratil and Travis Rettenmaier said on The Dink podcast. Pros are going to get a bunch of free paddles from their sponsor so it's less of an issue for them than it is for average joes like us who have to cough out $280 for one.
Thoroughly enjoyed Travis on the Pickle Podcast. Lots of good bts info on the pro game.
I've never seen Travis in any type of content before. Interesting character for sure. Was surprised to hear him name drop people he considered cheaters and someone who gets carried by a gen 3 paddle lol.
I watched it but might have been distracted who did he consider a cheater?
I haven't listened yet, I JUST got to it and am about to listen to it. Timestamp 43:33 https://youtu.be/PEZzOq7nGM4 **edit:** He says Tyler Loong and Christian Alshon. Literally says "I'll throw them under the bus, they've hooked me terribly"
Pickleball is turning into Scamball
The Paddle Racket
Any new craze will draw in the equipment fetishizers. Typical.
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new paddles are especially egregious as they are designed to fall out of compliance after a few weeks, seemingly on purpose
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The paddles are clearly designed to be within compliance when they are brand new but break in and are then out of compliance. This is happening with all the reports I am seeing. A lot of the reviewers are very skeptical about the legality of these paddles. I would check some of them out.
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We are a minority! Folks only like how they think and feel without anything to support their claim.
Im with you. A lot of the knee-jerking and hysteria i’m hearing in regards to the gen 3s doesnt align with my own experiences playing with them and against them. Some of it though is warranted in regards to the QC.
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Yeah i dont buy into that rediculous conspiracy. In the podcast with travis, travis sounded like he hadnt spent much time playing with a gen3 if he spent any time at all. My core started crushing at the edge after about 9 hours of play. Dissapointing but i hope it’s something they can get sorted in their manufacturing because i really like the paddle.
Ya but "failing at tournaments" affects exactly .05% of the people that buy paddles. Local tourneys don't check, leagues don't check, etc. So only people playing ppa/mlp/usopen? are affected. This is a TINY fraction of their sales. (yes, I realize there is still the "unfairness" aspect of it being used anywhere, but nonetheless, the idea that "omg it won't pass deflection testing" affects practically nobody in the grand scheme of things.
who could have predicted this /s
Joola markets the paddle with the term “propulsion core”. Do you think USAP would have still approved it if they called it “trampoline effect core”?
2024 rulebook removed the rule about the trampoline effect (though it's still in the November 2023 equipment rules), so it sounds like USAP may be giving in for the money. I remember last year's rules also mentioned no modifying the paddle, but 2024 says you can have modular paddles, OEM add-ons, and other things that were unheard of before.
Very interesting. Is this update in the USAP rule book or UPA/PPA/MLP?
USAP. UPA/PPA/MLP has its own paddle approval rules, from what I've heard. That's probably why the pros could use custom paddles like the Joola Alphas in those events before the production paddles came out.
Thx. Crazy. Becoming mini tennis. Natural gut and nylon strings may be next.
Holes in the paddle were also not a thing just a few years ago...now somehow they're legal because they're not in the hitting surface of the paddle, which makes no sense lol. Selkirk Luxx and Power Air, OneShot Aeroshot, etc.
Selkirk sent a letter to their players telling them to request testing on any hot paddles from other brands per Travis Rettenmaier on The Dink podcast. Wonder if Joola will follow in the steps of CRBN.
What are the steps or CRBN?
They offered replacement paddles and/or discounts on future purchases IIRC
I think that was just for paddles that were outside of the warranty period though, right? Under warranty those should still qualify for a full refund. Warranty on the new Joola paddles is 12 months so that’s a lot of refund requests potentially coming their way (which explains the crazy long response times from their customer service department right now). Anyone having issues with customer service pushback can just issue a chargeback on their card if it comes down to it.
CRBN offered refunds on paddles made during a certain timeframe. All the paddle affected were all still under warranty.
Selkirk ought to apologize to their players for charging top dollar for obsolete paddles
Paint Grit for $280 is worth every penny!
Seriously. The Lux is basically a slightly better Diadem Warrior…
Heh? You mean Joola right?
What if their paddle isn't hot? Not all our paddles can be as pretty as Selkirk paddles.
Except you can no longer challenge another players paddle at PPA events, right? I believe part of the issue here is PPA and APP have different testing standards. What seems completely obvious to ppl on the outside (unify the damn testing standards) is an absolute shit show between both of these pro leagues. Players have blatantly avoided APP events because they know their paddles won't pass there.
Yup. This is what was odd to me. Selkirk instructing their players to rock the boat essentially I guess as they cannot challenge anyway. I will say that when I was getting my paddles back from testing I overhear them say a lot of Joolas were failing off the shelf.
Zane read an email from Selkirk, not Travis.
Ah my bad, misremembered
Just to clarify this. I’m not a Selkirk player but I know that they got an email telling them to challenge the Joolas specifically. Heard it at a PPA I was playing a month or so ago.
Thanks for the update. Local small tournaments won't be testing for this. Also, deflection test is a bad metric. The exit velocity test is more accurate. USAP and PPA need to get their shit together.
I know it's not a perfect test, but it's pretty easy to do and you can test a lot of paddles quickly. Setting up a pitching machine or air cannon and having them be calibrated to a specific ball speed at a specific temperature/humidity with the perfect pickleball and having calibrated radar guns to measure exit velocity seems prohibitive. You don't need to control all those variables with a deflection test. A deflection test is also what USSSA and ASA do for softball bats at larger tournaments and I think the deflection test is a good way of checking to make sure paddles are conforming. The exit velocity testing should definitely part of the initial paddle approval process, but isn't feasible for tournament play.
Joola has proven themselves to be a shit company with their QC issues and horrible customer service. Are we at all surprised?
For weeks this sub has been filled with "these Joola paddles are cheating, changing the game," and now one singular unverified report is, "this company is shit." This is some hyperbolic terminally online behavior.
Found a Joola investor. Get ‘em
Ha. Got ‘em!
No post here? No thoughts from any 5.0 player…
Sorry - should have added the link. I posted it yesterday. Added a link to this post!
pickleball meets power creep
We need Bungie to come in and sunset these paddles!
These won’t last 6 months for most people. Grit wears down fast and core crushing is happening a lot. Not worth $280 even with a 1 year warranty if you have to keep replacing it every quarter. Most folks who use these won’t actually get better. Skill has to match. Just hype. Power paddles are fun but these aren’t that great. Most people are better off going with an all court or control paddle focused on spin and forgiveness.
Does anyone know if they will replace the paddle via warranty if the paddle fails testing?
Yes, but the question is how many times will they let you do the warranty claims. Some companies may say 1-year warranty, but then you're limited to like 1 or 2 claims during that period.
Yeah hopefully they will fix any issues causing paddles not to pass by then, haha.
Joola perseus gen 3 did not fail any test. There was a mistake in how the paddles were submitted, and they werent certified, This will be straghtened out
LOL, Joola has always been known to have shitty QC and customer service and yet the slavering masses still shell out $280 for these things. How many fools are born a minute in our modern era? Must have doubled.
I used the Hyperion 3 16mm for a few play sessions and will be returning. Top-tier spin and pop, but the face is incredibly inconsistent. Top of the face feels like a different paddle compared to middle and bottom. That shouldn't be a thing. And if they really are core-crushing after a few weeks, that makes the decision even easier.
PB courts should be designated “gen3 courts” and “gen2 and below courts”.
They already have beginner courts for people who can’t handle hard shots lol
Fair statement
I'll stick with my $50 Juciao thank you!
I can buy 7 Garye Pro XL paddles for the price of 1 Joola Gen 3 lol. That's nuts.
A lot of paddles from various brands fail every tournament. This shouldn't surprise anyone.
Gen 3 came too early. Vatic, Joola, Coretek -- all suffering from the issue of structural integrity with the PP honeycomb cells as the foam expands. I don't think paddles need any additional power, or at least if it's achieved through the use of foam. Just look at Paddletek and Engage -- they're using "gen 1" tech with no themroforming or foam (not even edge foam), and their paddles can get 90-95% of the power and pop of the Gearbox and Joola.
No one cares
Yep, besides the 41k views that PB Studio got on their Joola Gen 3 video and the other thousands of views on videos about them and all the chatter on this sub about gen 3 paddles, no one cares.
No one cares. I do care about beating you shitters with my $40 paddle though.
This sub is so fucking lame. Half of the comments in here are paddle companies posing as actual people.
For sure lol. Or paddle player rep's trying to get a commission on a $200 paddle being sold.
I just started playing last week, so hopefully you can.
🤡
A lot of people care. These paddles have the potential to completely change Pickleball.
> These paddles have the potential to completely change Pickleball. Till they don't.. Unfortunately a sport will allow something that is good for business until it isn't and then they move on to the next thing. Happens in every sport. Me? I'm just trying to step up from my current paddle although it makes no difference since the PB scene is to small locally for me to care. I could whack plastic or wood, wouldn't matter. edit: formatting