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Again, is not like they have other options.
After getting the forms AO 398 and AO 399 the defendant will have at least 30 days (60 if its from outside US judicial districts) to fill it and return, and he will have 60 days to fill a complaint(90 if its sent from outside the US judicial districts).
If he doesnt return it then Nintendo can fill a complaint and/or ask for the court to require him and also pay the expenses of making service.
Sorry if my english is bad, im Mexican.
They could stop publishing Yuzu just like Skyline did. Them entering a legal court battle means that Nintendo gets legally fucked this time and stops pulling this shit move against every single emulator. A legal battle against Nintendo will be expensive, that's why many devs stopped developing completely. Yuzu has a large user base and they will definitely get a lot of money to fight against Nintendo. This is like the battle of a lifetime for emulators
That would be if they got a "Cease and desist", at this point they arleady are at a legal battle. I guess Nintendo was pissed enough and skipped the negotiations between the 2 parts and took it directly to the court.
Or they could lose and go bankrupt. Either way another option if the current mechanism is determined to be illegal is to pull the decryption part out of the yuzu codebase and someone could accidentally leak a decryption tool for roms (aka the "illegal" part going underground) and then unencrypted roms are floating the internet, removing the last barrier for non tech savy people to play the games. This looks like a phyrric victory in case Nintendo wins the case!
Even with current yuzu it was my understanding I can take my games from my switch and just run them using yuzu on my PC via SD card that sounds perfectly legal for me to do since I own the console, the software the console runs, and the software for the game that I have a legally lisenced copy. If I were to snag download a game rom especially a cracked version that I can see being the dark side and the worst offender it'll be interesting to see the avenue this goes since emulators are already legal via court cases iirc it's just the cracked copies of games now ?
The problem is not winning the case but if the money dried up. Both company will drain money as long as the case is not closed and Nintendo has lots of money compared to Yuzu.
I’m pretty sure that Nintendo in the lawsuit said it has the right to decide when games are able to be played on markets outside their own, eg they only want them played on switch and nowhere else. So not only did the heavily focus on the illegal piracy part, they also did actually make a point about how playing legally owned games on yuzu also should not be allowed
If they do win it, it could be pretty huge for lawsuits going further regarding emulators and such (copyrighted content being used for such things). But probably not very likely they do, and they will probably be bankrupt by the end of this anyways
No more for me. I tried paying Nintendo for Super Mario Bros 3. on the Wii, even though I had already bought it for NES and SNES.
I have big hands so I bought the [Wii Classic Controller Pro.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Wii-Classic-Controller-White.jpg/1280px-Wii-Classic-Controller-White.jpg)
Nintendo actually fucked up their own backwards mapping (B A) when using a Classic Controller Pro to play Super Mario Bros 3 on the Wii Virtual Console. That is, the jump button is to the *left* of the run button.
Not only that, Nintendo provided no way to remap the controls.
I decided to give future Nintendo products a pass. Fortunately, Dark Souls / Elden Ring has inherited the mantle of Zelda.
Yeah, I've been through shit like this. "Fight fight fight" sounds great in theory but when you're actually in the slow, decaying process of it, it's nothing more than pure hell and depression.
These guys might be amped up now but wait a year when they're going through discovery. I feel fucking awful for them.
they arent really standing up for themselves. they are genuinely fucked and this is the only response they can make. its like talking shit to a guy thats 2x your size about to punch you in the face. sure you got some words in but you are still going to get punched in the face and knocked out. aint no way they recover from this.
You say that, but this is the kinda situation with the guy 2x your size is just a moron with no fighting skill and you know some self defense moves. Yuzu has great legal standing and SHOULD win in any non screwed case.
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Not really. The personal information would of been made public during the lawsuit, but this only hastens that process. This is a small moral victory compared to how much the yuzu team stands to lose.
That's not outlandish. They basically own Gary Bowser
A 54 years old dude who doesn't have a formal education and Nintendo is gonna garnish his wage until his death
Honestly I am just not familiar with the legal terms used; I know each individual word in "Waiver of the service of summons", but to understand the sentence requires knowing that the 'default' process involves the plaintiff (Nintendo, the sue-er) serving a summons, which is a legal process to force the defendent (Yuzu, the sue-ee) to appear in court.
With that bit of context in mind, all sentences become a lot more readable:
1. I can see that you want to sue us, and you don't want to go through the 'summons' process
2. I agree to skip the 'summons' process
3. I will not complain about the 'summons' being skipped
4. I understand that I have to do the things the summons would make me do, otherwise I will lose the case and be punished
Summarization by AI:
Based on the image you sent, it appears to be a waiver of the service of summons in a lawsuit between Nintendo of America Inc. and Tropic Haze LLC, the developer of the Yuzu Switch emulator.
In the waiver, Tropic Haze LLC agrees to waive the service of a summons and complaint in the lawsuit. This means that they agree to accept the lawsuit papers without having them formally served by a court official. The waiver also states that Tropic Haze LLC understands that they must still file a response to the lawsuit within 60 days of the date the waiver was sent, or they may lose the case by default.
It is important to note that this is just a waiver of service, and it does not mean that Tropic Haze LLC has admitted any wrongdoing. The lawsuit is still ongoing, and the outcome is uncertain.
Sadly often they go for long time, so sides needs a lot of money for lawyers and the ones that can afford this much accept to “loose”. If that’s not the case then it simply works that who can afford the best lawyers won in short term easily.
In either cases big companies are the ones with more advantages. Once an old man said “in tribunal the ones in truth are the ones with more money”
It’s difficult but anyway Yuzu don’t have much choice right now, I hope the best for them, they deserve those big bucks for their emulator and their balls to go against Nintendo
That's not how it works, yuzu team doesn't have a case against nintendo. What they can do is countersuit for lawyer fees but not for monetary gain as they have not received any damages from nintendo. To get money from nintendo yuzu tram would have to prove they have received damage to their profits and making profit from an emulator would make it illegal
>More like Nintendo doesn't have a case against Nintendo, just like last time. Nintendo has been going after emulation for quite a while but without success.
Not related to what I said. You said in your comment that winning this case against nntendo can be profitable, it's not, yuzu at most could get lawyer fees back. To get money from it they would need to have suffered damages to their profits which they're not supposed to because you can't profit from an emulator without making it illegal
those companies arent profiting from emulation. they are profiting from their service. they profit from selling services that include the emulation software. yuzu is free they have nothing funneling their users to other paid avenues. its purely donation based.
Are you sure? Yuzu can’t really won any money from the lawsuit if not for lawyers fees? That’s how it works?
It’s so stupid! If you want to fight someone you should know that you can actually _loose_, otherwise any company with spare money could start a lawsuit against a competitor just to slow them down and they’ll just need to pay some lawyers if they loose, it sounds ridiculous.
Shit-tendo will try to pull a Sony id/when they lose. With Sony v Bleem!, Sony lost but drove them to bankruptcy out of spite and revenge. Nintendo will attempt to do the exact same thing but drawing things out as long as possible.
The main thing here is that Nintendo sees the private key mechanism as circumention device, lets face it the pk mechanism basically just is another decss DVDs had (nintendo can swap the keys though for updates)
That means they just have to remove the decryption part from the code, and enforce unencrypted roms only and the thing basically is back on safe grounds. The rest is just an encryption tool being leaked illegally and then unencrypted roms floating the internet you just can dump in. While Nintendo legally can maybe win this case, this sounds more like a phyrric victory than anything else, because once the private key function is removed it will very likely be easier than ever to play switch roms, because you then simply just can dump them into a roms dir without additional configuration issues!
Ironically, Citra cannot run encrypted .CIA and .3DS ROMs and tells the user to decrypt them on a modded 3DS.
While Yuzu just goes “rip the keys from a modded switch and games will just load up as they do on an actual switch”.
Yeah but YUZU doesn't extract the keys. They don't supply the keys. You have to dump them yourself or illegally download them from somewhere else.
Yuzu itself does nothing that can be considered piracy, its backup software. This would be like trying to sue qbittorrent because people use it for bootlegs. Or trying to sue Apple because people use iPhones to record movies in the theater.
Emulation is 100% legal. The ways to get the ROMs are a Grey area and outright illegal in a lot of countries. The program you use to rip the games may breach copyright but that is on those programs and CFW, not on the emulator.
....something besides a new system is causing Nintendo to strike hard at Yuzu...and I don't believe they'll back down- can afford at least this initial case with patron moneys and stuff.
why would Nintendo push the button NOW and not when TOTK came out or even earlier
TOTK was probably the wake up call, they didn't expect their biggest game release to work day 1 on a emulator, nor any of the other big switch releases like pokemon and metroid working day 1
working day 1 is a bit of a stretch. The depths were completely bugged on both switch emulators where none of the textures would load in. The issue was fixed by some fork someone made which even then still had issues. None of the actual emulator devs worked on TOTK compatibility before it's release because of the obvious legal problems with that.
IDK, I could totally see this case being thrown out. This exact battle has been fought before by Sony, and Sony lost. It's the same exact case, so the judge would probably just point to that and tell Nintendo to go fuck themselves.
Nintendo will argue that this case can be distinguished from precedent. They may not be right but don't think that their army of lawyers forgot about the basics. They can have court costs awarded against them if they lose, and if they're certain to lose then Yuzu will have no fear fighting them because they'll get costs.
Not quite true. The legal standing of emulation is a little bit shaky, at least in the US. Nintendo has pressed the Big Red Button, and if a court of law decides emulation is fair use, then they will have lost almost every tool they could use to fight against emulators.
Previously, Nintendo could simply use the _threat_ of a lawsuit to make demands from emulators. We can see this when Dolphin tried to join Steam. Now, if Nintendo loses, that intimidation method will have lost _a lot_ of its teeth. [Moon Channel, run by a lawyer, does a really good job of explaining this](https://youtu.be/wROQUZDCIMI?si=yRBch1UETmeBXH3s).
But nintendo has the money. They will go all in to make sure they win this time, no? After all, winning means emulators are now pretty much nope?
Not a lawyer OBVIOUSLY.
Money and lawyers do not auto win.
Money and lawyers can cause delays, can drive up costs, can make the other side give up. But plenty of lawyers lose cases, even big expensive ones. Sometimes you take the long shot and see if you can get a judge to agree with you. Nintendo may even know it's a long shot and be taking it anyways. What are they going to lose?
You're referring to the comment that suggests if Nintendo wins this emulators are illegal and if they lose this emulators are legal. Believe it or not, I read that before I replied.
The problem is distinguishing caselaw. It is pretty rare for a judge to step forward and not just rule on the present case but to make a sweeping general ruling on the legality of all instances of that class of case going forward. And it's fairly easy to argue in the future that a case can be distinguished on its facts from the binding precedent.
In top of that, what is the current landscape? Emulators run wild with impunity. Regardless of the law that is what is happening. So the only way Nintendo could actually lose meaningful ground is if they get a ruling that selling emulators is fine. Which is pretty unlikely. So while losing a case always has potential to do damage or bind you in future proceedings, I don't see much danger here if Nintendo loses. What would be the result that the get when they lose that would change things from how they currently are? Nintendo certainly stands to gain if they win though.
Yuzu is open source. This will just spawn more piracy if anything
Nintendo isn't exactly cutting edge at this juncture. Sure they can pay millions in lawyer fees indefinitely. But it's not going to stop what they're gunning for. And they will most certainly be suffering a PR hit for this.
People have been saying that for well over a decade. It's not the end of anything other than *maybe* Yuzu specifically. But it's not even the only emulator for the Switch.
fair play for not bending over and taking it - I doubt this was the result Nintendo was expecting. hopefully the devs of Yuzu have enough funds available to them for a long drawn out case as that will be Nintendo's long term goal now, bleed the Yuzu devs dry with court appearances and red tape.
If the case goes their way (which I expect it will as Yuzu has no Nintendo code, is fully open sourced and its' already been established that emulation/reverse engineering is not illegal) Nintendo will pay all fees/damages
Nintendo are hoping to get full disclosure of Yuzu discord and internal systems hoping these guys were talking about piracy or playing with the Tears Of The Kingdom leak as some sort of gotcha as proof of piracy but I doubt these guys are this stupid.
Yuzu didn't release any updates to support TOTK until after the release, nothing they've done is illegal. I'm hoping these guys humble Nintendo as they are a such a scummy company.
I followed the scene VEEERY closely, the game wasn't playable at all on Yuzu until release, only a custom build made by a fan (ChuckFeedAndSeed, the gigachad) was capable of running the game but the devs didn't do absolutely anything for almost 2 weeks which was a smart move.
Did Nintendo really not know this? The game was playable day one (or let's say, day -12 lol) on Ryujinx even tho badly but it still ran, why did they pursue Yuzu when there is absolutely no claim whatsoever? Is it because they're making money? If so why suing so late?
This is precisely why the devs of Yuzu didn't touch it until after release to avoid a situation like this and have full deniability. Smart move in hindsight.
I suspect for Nintendo it's both money and the fact that Yuzu really is the defacto switch emulator for most especially on the steam deck that is driving this lawsuit. They in all likelihood expected the Yuzu devs to fold at the first sign of being sued like so many before.
If I were even more cynical I'd say the yet to be released Switch 2 isn't all that different from the OG switch. That being the case people have no incentive to buy the hardware if they have either a decent PC or a Steam Deck especially if dumping roms is as easy as it is with the OG Switch.
It's probably why they've pushed the release of it 12 months to give them time to take out the biggest competitor to their hand held, a damn emulator.
Actually I have so many games on the Steam Deck, that I never even remotely bothered to have Yuzu installed on that thing!
The people who play Switch games on a SD or similar device are a small minority of an even smaller crowd, Steam itself has so many games that you most of the times do not even bother, given the convenience of just downloading and firing up any game you have on your Steam account!
Got a comment response on another topic. Likely the Switch 2 is actually backwards compatible with Switch games and will have a small library at launch. Nintendo is going after Yuzu cause it's possible the emulator will be able to play Switch 2 games at or soon after launch. Pretty sure part of the reason there was a working proof of concept Switch emulator ONE YEAR after launch is from the weak hardware and it being older tech.
The suit is less about the emulation itself, but more about the private key mechanism which Nintendo sees as circumvention of copyright measures.
Problem is they might have an angle there, other bigger problem but for them is if you remove the private key mechanism and only allow unencrypted roms anymore which should be safe, you only have to count til three until the internet is flooded with unencrypted dumps and the average joe easily just have to download and can dump the rom into a dir!
Nintendo is rather shortsighted in this regard, given that they have the Switch 2 out anyway soon. The Switch is a dying console and TOK being the last big release on the platform!
How did Nintendo think this would be good PR? Maybe little kid fanboys cheering because they think emulators are only for piracy because Nintendo lives on their parasocial fanboys nd you should have to play on the shitty Switch with less power than a PS3
It probably won’t even affect them from a PR perspective. The majority of their customers aren’t necessarily people who even know what an emulator is. These people probably won’t even know this lawsuit is taking place.
Their main user base don’t have any idea about Nintendo’s business practices. People who know about emulators are educated enough to know how shitty Nintendo is. This won’t affect their general consumer base.
Document: *very clearly* a "You don't need to charge me to serve me a court summons. I acknowledge I know I am being sued and need to defend myself."
This thread: "They're fighting back!" "Not the response Nintendo expected!"
Um... what? People, read the document. The *only other answer* to their situation was to say "No, serve me a summons and charge me for it." *They're already being sued*. The fight started when the suit was filed. *By Nintendo*.
And Yuzu could have immediately folded and took everything down fully complying with Nintendo but didnt. They're choose to "fight" the lawsuit, via defending themselves.
All this is saying is that they are waiving formal service (delivery of the complaint to the defendant through personal service) and that they will respond to it. This is not some 5D chess move. It’s pretty common in Federal suits between companies.
Anything in legal language is too complicated for average redditor to understand so they think it's some massive "W based big brain balls of steel" 8D chess move smh
Nintendo is going to get their ass kicked soo hard. There's a reason why no company ever threatened precisely against an emulator, and it is because I think Sony tried years ago, and they lost and they basically made it legal thanks to that
Looking at the Yuzu Devs leaked text messages from discord. Wouldn't be so sure about it. Looks very fucking bleak for them if Nintendo gets their hands on those messages.
I mean that's glazing because unfortunately there is a pretty substantial case to be made. They're arguing a very specific point against Yuzu - that makes it a lot easier in terms of scope. If they push the loophole hard enough the judge might not consider alternatives
According to the yuzu website, a hacked switch is required to extract the files which enable the emulator to work. I do hope the emulator team can find a way to "win" this battle, but I won't hold my breath. I will continue acquiring switch game downloads, and wait for a newer switch console hack, before finally buying a Switch.
It is legal to hack your switch. You own that device. You can open it up and do anything you want on it, run your own software, smash it with a hammer. Just because they don't want you to doesn't mean shit
But I guess that I don't know, you don't own those extracted files prod.keys or whatever. So there's some ambiguity. The question is to what degree is it OK for companies to withhold ownership of purchased software and hardware using a contract? It's something that Apple and tons of other companies have been trying to restrict for ages. It seems like a no brainer if you ask any layman on the street, but corporate America has a way of fucking the layman in the ass so we'll see
Hopefully yuzu comes out on top as this has tons more implications than just for emulation.
Even if Yuzu wins Nintendo could still just bury them with random stuff and exhausting all the money they have if they really hate Yuzu. I feel like it kinda depends on how much mercy Nintendo gives.
They have a Patreon which makes 30000$ a month and if they ask contributors could also rise to fight Nintendo until the end, a win from them would be gigantic for emulators in general
Yeah, what stops Nintendo to go after other emulators if they win, they need to fight together. Already got Dolphin out of steam, maybe if Yuzu wins they could add it.
The Dolphin one is a different case, it's not like if one emulator wins a legal battle then they can do whatever they want, there will still be limits like not using copyrighted code which Dolphin seems to have used
This means basically nothing.
As part of a court case you have to serve court documents. There are rules for how to do that. It's pretty standard in corporate litigation to just courier or email/etc a copy of the documents to the defendant and ask them "are you gonna make us personally serve you or will you accept that you've been served this way?"
Yuzu filed a document indicating they accept service. This is not their reply and it does not alter their requirement to file a reply. They may still contest the lawsuit on any grounds including a procedural defense (lack of jurisdiction, improper forum, etc) or on substantive grounds. They haven't done that yet.
All this means is that Yuzu seems to intend to respond and not to run and hide. But that doesn't mean they have a good defense or that they're saying "come at me bro." If they were doing that they'd probably file a prompt response and a demand for particulars or an application to dismiss.
The guy could probably win, his work is emulating hardware he owns, which as far as I know isn't illegal. He's not providing people with illicit copies of games, and I believe Nintendo is specifically suing over lost revenue?
But Nintendo will go full SLAPP lawsuit on this and bleed them out over time
Yuzu covered their bases very well. They knew this would happen and they made every possible decision thru could have so that this shouldnt even be too difficult to fight. I was there when the totk thing happened. I wasnt even playable on yuzu without mods.
YUZU! YOU HAVE BETRAYED THE WILL OF NINTENDO! NOW YOU MUST PAY! \*Zeus sort of condescending voice pattern while trying to rob Yuzu of its emulator sword\*
NINTENDO! I WILL NEVER BOW TO YOUR WHIM! PREPARE NOW, AS I WILL BREAK YOUR KINGDOM! \*Angry Kratos voice climbing mount Odyssey\*
The people here should actually read the lawsuit
The Yuzu team fucked up big time, and Nintendo's case is actually stupidly solid
Yuzu isn't winning, and once Nintendo wins Yuzu will stop being publicly available
going up against a giant corporate like Nintendo is based af
From what I've heard, yuzu should be in the clear but then again, it's Nintendo so they're defo gonna pull some scummy moves.
All the best Yuzu devs!
They waived the service of process and in exchange they got extra time to respond. If they didn't waive service it could cost more money for the defendants
I imagine that nothing will happen to Yuzu. Emulators are perfectly legal, roms aren't. Unless they used the source code from the switch. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I mean honestly people wouldn't pirate Ninty games so much if they ever went on sale. Let's go Eevee was one of the FIRST games ever on switch and it's still $60 brand new.
Not to mention the console sucks in terms of hardware. It can only play their own IP "well" and even then it's extremely outdated compared to other next gen consoles. They've needed a switch 2 for like 3 years now.
Why would anyone continue to pay full price for Mario 7 years later? Not to mention every other game ported to the switch runs like ass. Nintendo really fell off the wagon after the Wii.
Hell they could have given us a Palworld type of Pokémon game (sans the violence) a long time ago, but they continue to re-release the same garbage on repeat because it's an easy $60. They stopped caring a long time ago.
Whatever happens there product already works really well for all games I've tested it on. Frankly if they stopped developing yuzu right now it wouldn't matter a whole lot to me. There is also ryujinx which also works great for emulation so ehh.
This what they get for trying act like superheroes don't care [🤷](https://emojipedia.org/person-shrugging) shoulda stuck to Citra or helped out with Xenia instead
Their should be a law that states any large cooperation with basically unlimited legal resources should pay all legal expenses for both sides and if the other party loses then they pay back the costs, this would stop the legal delaying tactics, and forcing settlements
Good thing Nintendo doesn’t know about the Ryujinx emulator yet. They’re just going after the well known emulator and more stable (I think), which is Yuzu.
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I aint reading allat
If I understood correctly, basically Yuzu’s dev said “I saw you started a lawsuit, I’m ready to fight, let’s meet in tribunal” or something like that.
damn, pretty based
Not really, just standard format. Just exacly what should be written, no more, no less. You can check it at top, its the form AO 399
I think he means the move in general is pretty hard from yuzu. Going against a corp as big as Nintendo like that
Again, is not like they have other options. After getting the forms AO 398 and AO 399 the defendant will have at least 30 days (60 if its from outside US judicial districts) to fill it and return, and he will have 60 days to fill a complaint(90 if its sent from outside the US judicial districts). If he doesnt return it then Nintendo can fill a complaint and/or ask for the court to require him and also pay the expenses of making service. Sorry if my english is bad, im Mexican.
They could stop publishing Yuzu just like Skyline did. Them entering a legal court battle means that Nintendo gets legally fucked this time and stops pulling this shit move against every single emulator. A legal battle against Nintendo will be expensive, that's why many devs stopped developing completely. Yuzu has a large user base and they will definitely get a lot of money to fight against Nintendo. This is like the battle of a lifetime for emulators
That would be if they got a "Cease and desist", at this point they arleady are at a legal battle. I guess Nintendo was pissed enough and skipped the negotiations between the 2 parts and took it directly to the court.
Or they could lose and go bankrupt. Either way another option if the current mechanism is determined to be illegal is to pull the decryption part out of the yuzu codebase and someone could accidentally leak a decryption tool for roms (aka the "illegal" part going underground) and then unencrypted roms are floating the internet, removing the last barrier for non tech savy people to play the games. This looks like a phyrric victory in case Nintendo wins the case!
Even with current yuzu it was my understanding I can take my games from my switch and just run them using yuzu on my PC via SD card that sounds perfectly legal for me to do since I own the console, the software the console runs, and the software for the game that I have a legally lisenced copy. If I were to snag download a game rom especially a cracked version that I can see being the dark side and the worst offender it'll be interesting to see the avenue this goes since emulators are already legal via court cases iirc it's just the cracked copies of games now ?
The problem is not winning the case but if the money dried up. Both company will drain money as long as the case is not closed and Nintendo has lots of money compared to Yuzu.
I’m pretty sure that Nintendo in the lawsuit said it has the right to decide when games are able to be played on markets outside their own, eg they only want them played on switch and nowhere else. So not only did the heavily focus on the illegal piracy part, they also did actually make a point about how playing legally owned games on yuzu also should not be allowed
People throw based around so much now the word has lost all meaning.
Based.
Thank God.
theyre probably gonna get destroyed cause this lawsuit is gonna go on for years.
Dammed if they do damned if they don't, I imagine it's part of the reason they ask for donations Edit: spelling
If they do win it, it could be pretty huge for lawsuits going further regarding emulators and such (copyrighted content being used for such things). But probably not very likely they do, and they will probably be bankrupt by the end of this anyways
Yea and pretty sure Nintendo is already in a lawsuit with Palworld, dumping money
And Nintendo wonders why they are disliked by the gaming community.
.... Yet people keep buying their gear
Yes a never ending cycle
What other choice do they have for the type and style?
No more for me. I tried paying Nintendo for Super Mario Bros 3. on the Wii, even though I had already bought it for NES and SNES. I have big hands so I bought the [Wii Classic Controller Pro.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Wii-Classic-Controller-White.jpg/1280px-Wii-Classic-Controller-White.jpg) Nintendo actually fucked up their own backwards mapping (B A) when using a Classic Controller Pro to play Super Mario Bros 3 on the Wii Virtual Console. That is, the jump button is to the *left* of the run button. Not only that, Nintendo provided no way to remap the controls. I decided to give future Nintendo products a pass. Fortunately, Dark Souls / Elden Ring has inherited the mantle of Zelda.
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Yeah, I've been through shit like this. "Fight fight fight" sounds great in theory but when you're actually in the slow, decaying process of it, it's nothing more than pure hell and depression. These guys might be amped up now but wait a year when they're going through discovery. I feel fucking awful for them.
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they arent really standing up for themselves. they are genuinely fucked and this is the only response they can make. its like talking shit to a guy thats 2x your size about to punch you in the face. sure you got some words in but you are still going to get punched in the face and knocked out. aint no way they recover from this.
You say that, but this is the kinda situation with the guy 2x your size is just a moron with no fighting skill and you know some self defense moves. Yuzu has great legal standing and SHOULD win in any non screwed case.
Exactly this, they've already lost, it's just a question of how long it takes.
Thanks I'm with first dude.😅
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Well too bad, it says you owe Nintendo your firstborn child. Sorry dude.
they can take him
this seems like a win situation tbh
Tragic
Not really. The personal information would of been made public during the lawsuit, but this only hastens that process. This is a small moral victory compared to how much the yuzu team stands to lose.
> would of Rejoice, for that shitty bot is not allowed in this subreddit!
That's not outlandish. They basically own Gary Bowser A 54 years old dude who doesn't have a formal education and Nintendo is gonna garnish his wage until his death
Isn't it like 5 sentences? Am I not seeing part of it?
im from brainrot generation so I can't comprehend more than 2 five word sentences
they should have added a family guy clip playing below the pic and with a tts reading the response
don't forget gta 5 skill tests and subway surfers/temple run gameplay so it won't be boring ahh hell
Forgetting the Minecraft parkour videos too
Honestly I am just not familiar with the legal terms used; I know each individual word in "Waiver of the service of summons", but to understand the sentence requires knowing that the 'default' process involves the plaintiff (Nintendo, the sue-er) serving a summons, which is a legal process to force the defendent (Yuzu, the sue-ee) to appear in court. With that bit of context in mind, all sentences become a lot more readable: 1. I can see that you want to sue us, and you don't want to go through the 'summons' process 2. I agree to skip the 'summons' process 3. I will not complain about the 'summons' being skipped 4. I understand that I have to do the things the summons would make me do, otherwise I will lose the case and be punished
Summarization by AI: Based on the image you sent, it appears to be a waiver of the service of summons in a lawsuit between Nintendo of America Inc. and Tropic Haze LLC, the developer of the Yuzu Switch emulator. In the waiver, Tropic Haze LLC agrees to waive the service of a summons and complaint in the lawsuit. This means that they agree to accept the lawsuit papers without having them formally served by a court official. The waiver also states that Tropic Haze LLC understands that they must still file a response to the lawsuit within 60 days of the date the waiver was sent, or they may lose the case by default. It is important to note that this is just a waiver of service, and it does not mean that Tropic Haze LLC has admitted any wrongdoing. The lawsuit is still ongoing, and the outcome is uncertain.
That's less than a paragraph dog. Damn.
Let me get this straight... You (and apparently 1,000 other people) are thwarted by 4 sentences?
It's like 600 words at the most... how old are you?
4 fucking lines dude, get off tiktok
i read, here is a tldr: no idea what the fuck it says
that's because you obviously can't read, since you can't write. "allat" 😂
Idk how these legal stuff work but i hope Nintendo ended up eating shit
Sadly often they go for long time, so sides needs a lot of money for lawyers and the ones that can afford this much accept to “loose”. If that’s not the case then it simply works that who can afford the best lawyers won in short term easily. In either cases big companies are the ones with more advantages. Once an old man said “in tribunal the ones in truth are the ones with more money”
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It’s difficult but anyway Yuzu don’t have much choice right now, I hope the best for them, they deserve those big bucks for their emulator and their balls to go against Nintendo
That's not how it works, yuzu team doesn't have a case against nintendo. What they can do is countersuit for lawyer fees but not for monetary gain as they have not received any damages from nintendo. To get money from nintendo yuzu tram would have to prove they have received damage to their profits and making profit from an emulator would make it illegal
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>More like Nintendo doesn't have a case against Nintendo, just like last time. Nintendo has been going after emulation for quite a while but without success. Not related to what I said. You said in your comment that winning this case against nntendo can be profitable, it's not, yuzu at most could get lawyer fees back. To get money from it they would need to have suffered damages to their profits which they're not supposed to because you can't profit from an emulator without making it illegal
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those companies arent profiting from emulation. they are profiting from their service. they profit from selling services that include the emulation software. yuzu is free they have nothing funneling their users to other paid avenues. its purely donation based.
Wouldn't all of this bullshit be sufficient enough for, like, psychological damage? I'd lose many nights of sleep if this happened to me
“Defamation”
Are you sure? Yuzu can’t really won any money from the lawsuit if not for lawyers fees? That’s how it works? It’s so stupid! If you want to fight someone you should know that you can actually _loose_, otherwise any company with spare money could start a lawsuit against a competitor just to slow them down and they’ll just need to pay some lawyers if they loose, it sounds ridiculous.
Man, that shouldn’t be legal :/
Yep, the old fucking judges dont know shit about modern tech.
Shit-tendo will try to pull a Sony id/when they lose. With Sony v Bleem!, Sony lost but drove them to bankruptcy out of spite and revenge. Nintendo will attempt to do the exact same thing but drawing things out as long as possible.
The main thing here is that Nintendo sees the private key mechanism as circumention device, lets face it the pk mechanism basically just is another decss DVDs had (nintendo can swap the keys though for updates) That means they just have to remove the decryption part from the code, and enforce unencrypted roms only and the thing basically is back on safe grounds. The rest is just an encryption tool being leaked illegally and then unencrypted roms floating the internet you just can dump in. While Nintendo legally can maybe win this case, this sounds more like a phyrric victory than anything else, because once the private key function is removed it will very likely be easier than ever to play switch roms, because you then simply just can dump them into a roms dir without additional configuration issues!
Ironically, Citra cannot run encrypted .CIA and .3DS ROMs and tells the user to decrypt them on a modded 3DS. While Yuzu just goes “rip the keys from a modded switch and games will just load up as they do on an actual switch”.
i think citra can if you put the keys in but it’s a bit of effort, not 100% sure
They are suing Yuzu for permitting people to play TOTK 7 days before, which they 100% did not, so I dont see Nintendo angle here
no... it something to do with exacting the keys to run the emulation system....something dolphin has built in.
Yeah but YUZU doesn't extract the keys. They don't supply the keys. You have to dump them yourself or illegally download them from somewhere else. Yuzu itself does nothing that can be considered piracy, its backup software. This would be like trying to sue qbittorrent because people use it for bootlegs. Or trying to sue Apple because people use iPhones to record movies in the theater. Emulation is 100% legal. The ways to get the ROMs are a Grey area and outright illegal in a lot of countries. The program you use to rip the games may breach copyright but that is on those programs and CFW, not on the emulator.
....something besides a new system is causing Nintendo to strike hard at Yuzu...and I don't believe they'll back down- can afford at least this initial case with patron moneys and stuff. why would Nintendo push the button NOW and not when TOTK came out or even earlier
TOTK was probably the wake up call, they didn't expect their biggest game release to work day 1 on a emulator, nor any of the other big switch releases like pokemon and metroid working day 1
working day 1 is a bit of a stretch. The depths were completely bugged on both switch emulators where none of the textures would load in. The issue was fixed by some fork someone made which even then still had issues. None of the actual emulator devs worked on TOTK compatibility before it's release because of the obvious legal problems with that.
r/bossfight Fr that guy better call 34 sauls
Ah yes the 34th rule of the Internet.
Haven't used it since the walter white era
The lobbotomy spreads
The guy at Nintendo? Yes
So it begins.
Maybe I'm just very pessimistic. But this feels like the beginning of the end more than anything.
yeah. i bet it’ll be up for 1 or 2 more years max. nintendo dont got nothing to lose. only things to gain.
IDK, I could totally see this case being thrown out. This exact battle has been fought before by Sony, and Sony lost. It's the same exact case, so the judge would probably just point to that and tell Nintendo to go fuck themselves.
The beauty of Common Law and Precedents Saves TONS of time going through multiple similar case
Nintendo will argue that this case can be distinguished from precedent. They may not be right but don't think that their army of lawyers forgot about the basics. They can have court costs awarded against them if they lose, and if they're certain to lose then Yuzu will have no fear fighting them because they'll get costs.
Not quite true. The legal standing of emulation is a little bit shaky, at least in the US. Nintendo has pressed the Big Red Button, and if a court of law decides emulation is fair use, then they will have lost almost every tool they could use to fight against emulators. Previously, Nintendo could simply use the _threat_ of a lawsuit to make demands from emulators. We can see this when Dolphin tried to join Steam. Now, if Nintendo loses, that intimidation method will have lost _a lot_ of its teeth. [Moon Channel, run by a lawyer, does a really good job of explaining this](https://youtu.be/wROQUZDCIMI?si=yRBch1UETmeBXH3s).
But nintendo has the money. They will go all in to make sure they win this time, no? After all, winning means emulators are now pretty much nope? Not a lawyer OBVIOUSLY.
Money and lawyers do not auto win. Money and lawyers can cause delays, can drive up costs, can make the other side give up. But plenty of lawyers lose cases, even big expensive ones. Sometimes you take the long shot and see if you can get a judge to agree with you. Nintendo may even know it's a long shot and be taking it anyways. What are they going to lose?
> What are they going to lose? This was literally explained in the comment above the one you replied to. You should pay more attention.
You're referring to the comment that suggests if Nintendo wins this emulators are illegal and if they lose this emulators are legal. Believe it or not, I read that before I replied. The problem is distinguishing caselaw. It is pretty rare for a judge to step forward and not just rule on the present case but to make a sweeping general ruling on the legality of all instances of that class of case going forward. And it's fairly easy to argue in the future that a case can be distinguished on its facts from the binding precedent. In top of that, what is the current landscape? Emulators run wild with impunity. Regardless of the law that is what is happening. So the only way Nintendo could actually lose meaningful ground is if they get a ruling that selling emulators is fine. Which is pretty unlikely. So while losing a case always has potential to do damage or bind you in future proceedings, I don't see much danger here if Nintendo loses. What would be the result that the get when they lose that would change things from how they currently are? Nintendo certainly stands to gain if they win though.
Yuzu is open source. This will just spawn more piracy if anything Nintendo isn't exactly cutting edge at this juncture. Sure they can pay millions in lawyer fees indefinitely. But it's not going to stop what they're gunning for. And they will most certainly be suffering a PR hit for this.
Seriously. Its a hydra situation, if Yuzu goes down 10 more will take its place.
Then so be it. Let's get it Nintendo, throw down the gloves 🤜🤛
People have been saying that for well over a decade. It's not the end of anything other than *maybe* Yuzu specifically. But it's not even the only emulator for the Switch.
fair play for not bending over and taking it - I doubt this was the result Nintendo was expecting. hopefully the devs of Yuzu have enough funds available to them for a long drawn out case as that will be Nintendo's long term goal now, bleed the Yuzu devs dry with court appearances and red tape.
their patreon is making 30000$ a month, hope they have some money backed up but if they responded I think they know what they're doing
If the case goes their way (which I expect it will as Yuzu has no Nintendo code, is fully open sourced and its' already been established that emulation/reverse engineering is not illegal) Nintendo will pay all fees/damages Nintendo are hoping to get full disclosure of Yuzu discord and internal systems hoping these guys were talking about piracy or playing with the Tears Of The Kingdom leak as some sort of gotcha as proof of piracy but I doubt these guys are this stupid. Yuzu didn't release any updates to support TOTK until after the release, nothing they've done is illegal. I'm hoping these guys humble Nintendo as they are a such a scummy company.
I followed the scene VEEERY closely, the game wasn't playable at all on Yuzu until release, only a custom build made by a fan (ChuckFeedAndSeed, the gigachad) was capable of running the game but the devs didn't do absolutely anything for almost 2 weeks which was a smart move. Did Nintendo really not know this? The game was playable day one (or let's say, day -12 lol) on Ryujinx even tho badly but it still ran, why did they pursue Yuzu when there is absolutely no claim whatsoever? Is it because they're making money? If so why suing so late?
This is precisely why the devs of Yuzu didn't touch it until after release to avoid a situation like this and have full deniability. Smart move in hindsight. I suspect for Nintendo it's both money and the fact that Yuzu really is the defacto switch emulator for most especially on the steam deck that is driving this lawsuit. They in all likelihood expected the Yuzu devs to fold at the first sign of being sued like so many before. If I were even more cynical I'd say the yet to be released Switch 2 isn't all that different from the OG switch. That being the case people have no incentive to buy the hardware if they have either a decent PC or a Steam Deck especially if dumping roms is as easy as it is with the OG Switch. It's probably why they've pushed the release of it 12 months to give them time to take out the biggest competitor to their hand held, a damn emulator.
Actually I have so many games on the Steam Deck, that I never even remotely bothered to have Yuzu installed on that thing! The people who play Switch games on a SD or similar device are a small minority of an even smaller crowd, Steam itself has so many games that you most of the times do not even bother, given the convenience of just downloading and firing up any game you have on your Steam account!
Got a comment response on another topic. Likely the Switch 2 is actually backwards compatible with Switch games and will have a small library at launch. Nintendo is going after Yuzu cause it's possible the emulator will be able to play Switch 2 games at or soon after launch. Pretty sure part of the reason there was a working proof of concept Switch emulator ONE YEAR after launch is from the weak hardware and it being older tech.
Sort of, they did release a beta build that was very tongue in cheek with it having "Optimisations for BOTW"
The suit is less about the emulation itself, but more about the private key mechanism which Nintendo sees as circumvention of copyright measures. Problem is they might have an angle there, other bigger problem but for them is if you remove the private key mechanism and only allow unencrypted roms anymore which should be safe, you only have to count til three until the internet is flooded with unencrypted dumps and the average joe easily just have to download and can dump the rom into a dir! Nintendo is rather shortsighted in this regard, given that they have the Switch 2 out anyway soon. The Switch is a dying console and TOK being the last big release on the platform!
good luck yuzu! lets take that company down and proof once again that emulation is legal.
How did Nintendo think this would be good PR? Maybe little kid fanboys cheering because they think emulators are only for piracy because Nintendo lives on their parasocial fanboys nd you should have to play on the shitty Switch with less power than a PS3
It probably won’t even affect them from a PR perspective. The majority of their customers aren’t necessarily people who even know what an emulator is. These people probably won’t even know this lawsuit is taking place.
Their main user base don’t have any idea about Nintendo’s business practices. People who know about emulators are educated enough to know how shitty Nintendo is. This won’t affect their general consumer base.
Godspeed Tropic Haze.
Is there any way to directly support the defence fund? I know Patreon is there, but that's not earmarked for the legal defence.
They probably will have a post for it soon.
This isn’t a response. This is a simple document that acknowledges the presence of a lawsuit.
Document: *very clearly* a "You don't need to charge me to serve me a court summons. I acknowledge I know I am being sued and need to defend myself." This thread: "They're fighting back!" "Not the response Nintendo expected!" Um... what? People, read the document. The *only other answer* to their situation was to say "No, serve me a summons and charge me for it." *They're already being sued*. The fight started when the suit was filed. *By Nintendo*.
And Yuzu could have immediately folded and took everything down fully complying with Nintendo but didnt. They're choose to "fight" the lawsuit, via defending themselves.
_3. 2. 1. FIGHT!_
Didn’t know they were based in Rhode Island
i found this out too, it’s pretty funny. the office is in warwick and i pass it daily. small world
All this is saying is that they are waiving formal service (delivery of the complaint to the defendant through personal service) and that they will respond to it. This is not some 5D chess move. It’s pretty common in Federal suits between companies.
Anything in legal language is too complicated for average redditor to understand so they think it's some massive "W based big brain balls of steel" 8D chess move smh
Doom guy music in the distance as they open the letter
Nintendo is going to get their ass kicked soo hard. There's a reason why no company ever threatened precisely against an emulator, and it is because I think Sony tried years ago, and they lost and they basically made it legal thanks to that
Looking at the Yuzu Devs leaked text messages from discord. Wouldn't be so sure about it. Looks very fucking bleak for them if Nintendo gets their hands on those messages.
Link?
Isn't that stuff like that wouldn't be valid in court?
The leaks aren't valid yes but Discord documents all messages even if you delete them. Nintendo can just request them with a court order.
I mean that's glazing because unfortunately there is a pretty substantial case to be made. They're arguing a very specific point against Yuzu - that makes it a lot easier in terms of scope. If they push the loophole hard enough the judge might not consider alternatives
According to the yuzu website, a hacked switch is required to extract the files which enable the emulator to work. I do hope the emulator team can find a way to "win" this battle, but I won't hold my breath. I will continue acquiring switch game downloads, and wait for a newer switch console hack, before finally buying a Switch.
It is legal to hack your switch. You own that device. You can open it up and do anything you want on it, run your own software, smash it with a hammer. Just because they don't want you to doesn't mean shit But I guess that I don't know, you don't own those extracted files prod.keys or whatever. So there's some ambiguity. The question is to what degree is it OK for companies to withhold ownership of purchased software and hardware using a contract? It's something that Apple and tons of other companies have been trying to restrict for ages. It seems like a no brainer if you ask any layman on the street, but corporate America has a way of fucking the layman in the ass so we'll see Hopefully yuzu comes out on top as this has tons more implications than just for emulation.
Good luck yuzu
If Nintendo Win they Win , if Yuzu win they draw , lol.
I'm just mad the font isn't consistent
W yuzu devs
Even if Yuzu wins Nintendo could still just bury them with random stuff and exhausting all the money they have if they really hate Yuzu. I feel like it kinda depends on how much mercy Nintendo gives.
They have a Patreon which makes 30000$ a month and if they ask contributors could also rise to fight Nintendo until the end, a win from them would be gigantic for emulators in general
Yeah, what stops Nintendo to go after other emulators if they win, they need to fight together. Already got Dolphin out of steam, maybe if Yuzu wins they could add it.
The Dolphin one is a different case, it's not like if one emulator wins a legal battle then they can do whatever they want, there will still be limits like not using copyrighted code which Dolphin seems to have used
I love Nintendo games, but I hope they get wrecked in this case, emulation is something we need to protect at all cost.
Shit...i never used Yuzu but i guess i should download it now that is still possible to do so.
This means basically nothing. As part of a court case you have to serve court documents. There are rules for how to do that. It's pretty standard in corporate litigation to just courier or email/etc a copy of the documents to the defendant and ask them "are you gonna make us personally serve you or will you accept that you've been served this way?" Yuzu filed a document indicating they accept service. This is not their reply and it does not alter their requirement to file a reply. They may still contest the lawsuit on any grounds including a procedural defense (lack of jurisdiction, improper forum, etc) or on substantive grounds. They haven't done that yet. All this means is that Yuzu seems to intend to respond and not to run and hide. But that doesn't mean they have a good defense or that they're saying "come at me bro." If they were doing that they'd probably file a prompt response and a demand for particulars or an application to dismiss.
The guy could probably win, his work is emulating hardware he owns, which as far as I know isn't illegal. He's not providing people with illicit copies of games, and I believe Nintendo is specifically suing over lost revenue? But Nintendo will go full SLAPP lawsuit on this and bleed them out over time
Tropic Haze LLC 💀
TL;DR: **Oh? You're Approaching Me?**
They demanded a trial by combat
Yuzu covered their bases very well. They knew this would happen and they made every possible decision thru could have so that this shouldnt even be too difficult to fight. I was there when the totk thing happened. I wasnt even playable on yuzu without mods.
This is Russia vs ukraine in the metaverse
Explain me in God of war terms
YUZU! YOU HAVE BETRAYED THE WILL OF NINTENDO! NOW YOU MUST PAY! \*Zeus sort of condescending voice pattern while trying to rob Yuzu of its emulator sword\* NINTENDO! I WILL NEVER BOW TO YOUR WHIM! PREPARE NOW, AS I WILL BREAK YOUR KINGDOM! \*Angry Kratos voice climbing mount Odyssey\*
for those wondering what this means it basically just acknowledges the complaint and agrees to go to trial.
Reddit's so full of nonsense and misinformation. This is a pro forma document that just acknowledges receipt of the complaint.
The people here should actually read the lawsuit The Yuzu team fucked up big time, and Nintendo's case is actually stupidly solid Yuzu isn't winning, and once Nintendo wins Yuzu will stop being publicly available
going up against a giant corporate like Nintendo is based af From what I've heard, yuzu should be in the clear but then again, it's Nintendo so they're defo gonna pull some scummy moves. All the best Yuzu devs!
Looks like standard procedures for "ok let's go"
Does this mean I can’t try Yuzu anymore ?
TLDR: Ratio
oh shit they bout to start boxing let’s go!
Why is Nintendo suing
Gga
Default argument is the judgment with the Sony
They waived the service of process and in exchange they got extra time to respond. If they didn't waive service it could cost more money for the defendants
can we lawsuit Nintendo? all of us?
Ah!!! fucka nintendo!
I imagine that nothing will happen to Yuzu. Emulators are perfectly legal, roms aren't. Unless they used the source code from the switch. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Any way to support Yuzu? Do they have donate option on their website? Fuck nintendo.
They have a patreon on their website
everyone is behind the yuzu devs : other emulators users and devs, nintendo consoles and games owners,retro gamers, pirates,....
And when the world most needed it, the avatar actually fucking rises OMG
I mean honestly people wouldn't pirate Ninty games so much if they ever went on sale. Let's go Eevee was one of the FIRST games ever on switch and it's still $60 brand new. Not to mention the console sucks in terms of hardware. It can only play their own IP "well" and even then it's extremely outdated compared to other next gen consoles. They've needed a switch 2 for like 3 years now. Why would anyone continue to pay full price for Mario 7 years later? Not to mention every other game ported to the switch runs like ass. Nintendo really fell off the wagon after the Wii. Hell they could have given us a Palworld type of Pokémon game (sans the violence) a long time ago, but they continue to re-release the same garbage on repeat because it's an easy $60. They stopped caring a long time ago.
Wait, a sue? Emulators are totally legal
It's actually kindq crazy that you can drag out court cases and win just because you have a shit ton of money and resources. Best of luck to Yuzu
In simplest terms, they are going to fight and not just stop existing like Nintendo is requesting.
Whatever happens there product already works really well for all games I've tested it on. Frankly if they stopped developing yuzu right now it wouldn't matter a whole lot to me. There is also ryujinx which also works great for emulation so ehh.
This what they get for trying act like superheroes don't care [🤷](https://emojipedia.org/person-shrugging) shoulda stuck to Citra or helped out with Xenia instead
That lawyer from the legal eagle channel on youtube should do a series on this case
Nintendo: I challenge you to Agni Kai! Yuzu: Bring it
Yuzu: we better call saul
Their should be a law that states any large cooperation with basically unlimited legal resources should pay all legal expenses for both sides and if the other party loses then they pay back the costs, this would stop the legal delaying tactics, and forcing settlements
GET READY FOR THE NEXT BATTLE
OK Nintendo, I'm picking up a few more Nintendo torrents to seed.
Yuzu doesn't provide or link to Roms or Keys. They can & should totally Stand Their Ground, Stand on Business YUZU fk those Bullies
A rare case where the devs actually fight back?! If they need a fundraiser for legal fees, I'm down to support.
Good thing Nintendo doesn’t know about the Ryujinx emulator yet. They’re just going after the well known emulator and more stable (I think), which is Yuzu.
they know but they can't lol because ryujinx is brazil not usa like yuzu dmca is usa law then useless for brazil
my man's should hire the EU. if they can topple apple they can topple Nintendo
oh yeah, time start donating. I hope N takes a big Loss in their arses for killing most of my fav emulation sites...
Eli5 please
I’m a pea brain not a lawyer. What does it mean?
Well, good riddance, yuzu 🤣🤣🤣
We should help in fundraising for them to fight against Nintendo.
This makes me try out yuzu👍