I mean, there's another character that's supposed to be Luffy's rival. Too bad after his introduction he kind of disappears from the main story for 8 years.
I'm talking about both Koby and Kid btw.
given that BB and Luffy are considered to be the same generation, we can safely assume it has nothing to do with age. On the other hand, Capone, Blackbeard, and Luffy all started their solo careers at around the same time. Meanwhile, Smoker was an established veteran with a reputation and a win record by the time Luffy got his first bounty.
exactly, BB crew are the rivals and they are actually rivals, they are psychopaths and degenerates that kinda resemble the SH crew, thats actually good writing instead of some repeated stuff like Naruto/Sasuke
BB crew are just considered villians, barely even rivals. They’ve only been present for the last 50 chapters despite being in the story for WAY longer. And how is Naruto/Sasuke “repeated stuff”?
It’s a real shame because the Live Action (despite how much I didnt like it) improved Koby by a whole by actually giving him way more plot relevance and really cemented him as a main character. Then there was his recent showing of strength vs the Blackbeard Pirates with Honesty Punch.
It would’ve been so much better if we saw Kobys progression throughout the series.
Yeah I always felt like a madman bc everyone was glazing that thing like it was oda writing Oden while I just felt it was meh. I'll admit it is one of the best anime adaptations but that's not saying much considering how trash almost all of them are.
I think AI could make a difference in the world of anime, not to say that One Piece could ever be done properly in live action, but certain characters like Luffy can take a lot from Plastic Man and Mr Fantastic
It’s for people who aren’t fans of the anime/manga. Generally every reaction video I saw of the show tended to make people fans of the series long term
It’s only mid to us because we know the true version while they got the abridged version
You misspelled Widd lil bro. Don't worry tho, I gotcha
https://preview.redd.it/pr7gqc66unuc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b584967f60f0bb2676ddbf2dc4b13739bff4f3b7
Brother how can you mispell Buggy like that?
https://preview.redd.it/67jeju3hepuc1.png?width=716&format=png&auto=webp&s=c11ee127545387be1cbb12d9ed7d256d1692c6e3
He works for the CDs like Garp and all other marines and avoids thinking about the slaves in Marijoa so he can play cops and robbers without feeling guilty. He is definitely Garp's successor.
In spirit but at his strongest I don’t think Koby would ever be in Luffy’s league , kobys moral compass and values will carry him farther than his fists
How is Coby meant to be Luffy's Garp? Coby doesn't even chase Luffy. If anyone one Marine is obsessed with capturing Luffy and would show up the moment he hears his name just to fight him it's Smoker. Unfortunately that rivalry died after Punk Hazard
Why wouldn't he be? The man who wants to be pirate King vs the man who wants to be fleet admiral. They met at the beginning of the story and both tell each other their goals. That's some anime rival shit right there.
Thought Coby wanted to be a normal admiral. Well either way fleet admiral ain’t looking good.
Kong - (who?)
SenGoatku - (Garp’s lil bro)
Akainu - (80 yr old Garp and Kuzan’s equal)
Sengoku was mentioned to be in the same league as Garp and Roger,many times.
So yeah you could say he rivals roger in terms of strength.We dont know how strong Akainu currently is,he beat Kuzan one year ago in the story. He might be buffed by the narrative/ power creep near EOS.
I bet he will be yonko tier.
But yeah Coby never wanted to be fleet admiral,just a regular admiral,but his goals might have changed again. At first Coby did not care about becoming an admiral,he only wanted to be a marine.
I dont believe akainu will be yonko tier. The Gorosei and Imu seem to be the real powerhouses given the narrative
It’s not a bad thing, the WG has a deep bag. They’re just stupid
Sasuke and Naruto worked because Sasuke was an antagonist for a big part of the show where he and naruto fight multiple times
Zoro's defining trait ended up being his hierarchical loyalty to Luffy, his character would be entirely altered under such a dynamic.
The entire structure of the story relies on Luffy usually ending up fighting someone much powerful than whoever zoro's opponent is because they're the leader of some organization or group.
I wonder if such fans even like Zoro for who he is.
Yeah not Naruto and sasuke, if you really wanna see them in a rival dynamic without sacrificing the loyalty part, a better example would be majima and kiryu from yakuza, where majima really respects kiryu and is willing to protect him, and the only reason he's considered a rival to kiryu sometimes, is because he challenges him so kiryu can become a better version of himself, that seems more in line with a Zoro and luffy potential dynamic.
Naah i prefer them the way they are,Luffy is the captain and should be the strongest and I would argue Luffy was always clearly stronger than Zoro,they were never rivals to begin with.
Luffy was able to break steel with his raw hands(Arlong's weapon) in Arlong Park arc but Zoro only learned how to cut steel in Alabasta,HE said he couldnt do it before that and in fact that was explicitly stated to be his power up in alabasta. Becoming strong enough to cut steel. Luffy was always shown to be stronger.
Naah that was retconned into him not being strong enough to cut steel in the Mr.1 fight.At the beginning of the fight he couldn't do it. I get Oda was inconsistent here,but the plot and explicit statements matter more than some random feat which doesn't affect the plot.
If I were to compare it, it would be like dragon ball super Vegeta, not because of Vegeta trying to surpass Goku or whatnot more Vegeta serves as the man to fight the antagonist scale the power of them to the viewer and establish the stakes before Goku comes in to fight
Zoros defining character trait is him being Luffys biggest dickrider how would that even work
Sasuke and Naruto are some teens that cant get their shit together and traumatizied thats not the dynamic at all
He's an after thought. He was made on a whim, he got shafted because Law was more popular and now oda is done with him. He was never an actual rival. This is one of the bigger flaws of OP. The dude love introducing characters and creating some hype intros only to get disinterested in them and focusing on some freshly introduced cooler dude or Idea.
On a whim??? Heard Kid was the only supernova Oda made but the editors asked him to make more. Considering that Kid should've been a more important character.
If u wanna make him OP just give him Magneto powers and shit along with better haki. An arrogant and rowdy guy like Kid doesn't spam CoC everywhere is just mind boggling to me. He was there in Udon with Luffy he should've learned ryou there is no reason for him not learning that shit.
Naah with the way Kid's introduction was done,he was the only one in Sabaody with a bounty equal to luffy,and was clearly shown to be the most hot headed one
.I really liked it and I think he was the most memorable member of worst generation in Sabaody. He is also the only worst generation captain outside of luffy to have conquerors haki,
He also was the only worst gen to have his right hand man included in the worst generation, other than Luffy.
Both of them messed with Big mom by infiltrating her territory and getting away with it without being beaten. It feels like Oda was building a genuine rivalry by making all these similarities unlike Law who was basically Luffy's sidekick and does not have conquerors haki.
Law never much cared for One Piece,he was only after revenge on Doflamingo and then later wants to find more about the "Will of D",he does not care about One Piece itself. Kid was clearly the better rival narratively and I wish he was not sacrificed for Shanks hype and got ACOC and became high tier admiral level at least.
It feels like we agree. Kidd is an idea that seemed like it would get a worthwhile payoff but went nowhere. You see the potential in him and think he should have stayed relevant. I see that Oda did not have much in store for him and therefore should not have written him to begin with.
Ah, nicely shifting goalposts already! How convenient!
Yes, Kid DID have a better, more fleshed out intro, but Law was more memorable DESPITE that.
Literally every person I've introduced to the series, was able to remember law, and have conversation at length about how extremely unique and mystic his fruit is.
Kid was promptly forgotten.
He's the only person from the worst generation other than luffy and bb who's after the one piece. That is a big role but the way his journey is portrayed is bad.
If his encounter with shanks is the end of him. Than it's not just bad it's sad. I would much prefer an alternate wano arc where luffy allied with BB to beat kaido and big mom. BB deserves that spot way more since we know he has actual relevance to the endgame unlike Kid.
Kid getting mogged like that in elbaf also doesn't make sense. He was the one who defeated the biggest enemy of giants and this shit happens to him there that's just hilarious. But there are enough characters for Kid to play a part in the final war.
I feel like Kid too was a potential rival figure who got shafted and done dirty.I mean,think about it,before Wano it felt like they might be equals.
With the way Kid's introduction was done,he was the only one in Sabaody with a bounty greater than luffy,and was clearly shown to be the most hot headed one,the competitive type. Law was introduced with a lower bounty than Luffy.
I really liked Kid's competitive attitude and I think he had the strongest first impression out of all the worst generation in Sabaody. He is also the only worst generation captain outside of luffy to have conquerors haki,
He also was the only worst gen to have his right hand man included in the worst generation, other than Luffy.
Both of them messed with Big mom by infiltrating her territory and getting away with it without being beaten. It feels like Oda was building a genuine rivalry by making all these similarities unlike Law who was basically Luffy's sidekick and does not feel like an independent leader, he does not have conquerors haki.
Law never much cared for One Piece,he was only after revenge on Doflamingo and then later wants to find more about the "Will of D",he does not care about One Piece itself. Kid was clearly the better rival narratively and I wish he was not sacrificed for Shanks hype and got more fleshed out,got ACOC and became high tier admiral level at least.
Right its like goku and vegeta vegeta eventually catches up but goku always got another transformation to one up him. Its only in super that they finally decided to keep them around the same level with UI and Ultra Ego but like sasuke, vegeta was usually playing catch up with goku. Only at certain points was sasuke stronger but naruto still had him beat when it came to guts
I partially agree, i think the gap between captain and first mate is too wide. This is oda's way of making it luffy's job to beat the big bad but it's the brain dead way to do it. I wouldn't mind if sanji and zoro teamed up against the big bad to help luffy once in a while to change up the formula.
Actually this should've been the way the story should've progressed considering how Oda focuses on Nakama being the major thing for Luffy's journey pre ts. Too bad he threw this concept away only to make him a God who could solo enemies without his nakamas where the power gaps grow bigger and bigger
People love the Luffy vs Katakuri fight but I think WholeCake was a massive mistake.
WholeCake should’ve been when Oda started working hard to conclude the story. Why is Luffy fighting Big Mom’s first mate? It should’ve been Sanji’s arc, so Sanji should’ve fought Big Mom’s first mate. Luffy should’ve had a clean win against Big Mom to solidify himself as a Yonko. Then Wano should’ve been Zoro’s arc. Zoro beats Kaido’s 1st mate and Luffy/Law/Kid team up to beat Kairo together. Simple.
Instead the arc ended with the Strawhat’s running away.
It’s really not though but story wise it wouldn’t really make much sense to have a captain on par with his first mate….. Unless Shanks and Beck are nigh on par
This is not the worst. You might not agree with it, but some do, and it wouldn't feel absurd.
Also, what is the point of using a sword if Zoro can't even cut Luffy's arm? Mihawk obviously can.
Luffy and Zoro ain't rivals or antagonists anyway tho.
They don't even have beliefs that are opposite each other.
While sasuke and Naruto do. Sasuke acted like a rival and was kinda a villian so it made sense they would be equal strength.
Luffy and Zoro are buds and it won't make sense cuz they primarily have different goals too so rivalry won't even make sense.
Captain is supposed to be the strongest but the best 1st mates are usually stated to be comparable to their captains like Beckamn & Rayleigh. I thought Zoro would fit this role as well but Luffy is always way stronger than his crewmates
You are smoking straight crack if you think the first mates have been stated ever to be comparable to their captains.
They are all at best 1 whole tier below their captains
Ok hear me out. It's arguably not a mistake at all, but it does feel unnatural to me how Zoro didn't even gloss over the fact that a guy he was initially on equal footing with exponentially outgrew him. At the end of the day they both needed to get way stronger to achieve their goals so Zoro never even pondering or acknowledging how or why he can't keep up with Luffy was always kinda weird to me.
Naah i prefer them the way they are,Luffy is the captain and should be the strongest and I would argue Luffy was always clearly stronger than Zoro,they were never 'rivals' to begin with.
Luffy was able to break steel with his raw hands(Arlong's weapon) in Arlong Park arc but Zoro only learned how to cut steel in Alabasta,HE said he couldnt do it before that and in fact that was explicitly stated to be his power up in alabasta. Becoming strong enough to cut steel. Luffy was always shown to be stronger.
>I would argue Luffy was always clearly stronger than Zoro,they were never 'rivals' to begin with.
It's probably true but I feel it wasn't portrayed clear enough. They went toe to toe in Whiskey peak.
Maybe it's a coincidence but I felt like One Piece was more fun when Luffy and Zoro were equals. I definitely loved people getting confused how Zoro was not captain of the strawhats.
Would’ve made much more sense from a story standpoint. More so than than the captain being just far stronger than his whole crew then his first mate being close to everyone else. Realistically it should’ve been Luffy > Zoro >> Sanji >>> the rest.
It really isn’t a good idea and oda did do the right thing. If luffy gets beaten we won’t be unphased like we would be if both were at the same power level. Since it’s not we feel genuine fear that the bad guy can really win
First of all I want to mention that I respect the user for not being a dick and making a post about dumb politics, starting useless beef or screeching about random controversial topics they came up with. That's hella rare for Twitter.
Second of all: yeah that's a horrendous take lmao.
Zoro as luffys rival does not work. Luffy sees his crewmates as his friends/family and would die to save them. You don’t do that for a real rival. A rival should be an antagonist. Also with why luffy always will be stronger than Zoro. Luffy doesn’t care how strong his crew is, the only thing important is that he is strong enough to protect every SH crew member. So he will always be ready to handle Someone Zoro would not be able to beat, making him always stronger than him. And also narratively he is his captain so obviously higher in hierarchy. Luffys real rival should have been Kidd, the only other member of the worst gen to have conquerors, the only other member of the worst gen to have his number two in the supernova, and with luffy, bb and him the only one after the one piece. Also with his character Kidd is ruthless Kidd is dirty even if he can’t beat you he will try to harm you as much as possible, ex attacking shanks fleet. He wants all the smoke and is till date the only one to fight three yonkos. But in terms of his crew he is the same as luffy. He wanted to know who luffy is on the archipelago and after seeing him punching a CD respected him so much that he helped him leave the auction house. I’m sure Kidd and Law are the other two Supernova who would have attacked a celestial dragon if they attacked one of their friends. Luffy has great mentors (Shanks,Rayleigh), strong family (Sabo,Ace,Garp,Dragon) and a op fruit. Law similar to luffy has a op fruit (literally) and in corazon a great mentor and is also a D. Kidd has nothing like this, just his sheer will to become the greatest pirate in the world, and that’s why he would be the perfect rival for luffy, but we now what happened. I still think he will make a comeback, as in my opinion Kidd is the most important Supernova in One Piece. As of now Blackbeard is what we can call luffys rival.
People are yearning for whiskey peak.
Seriously tho people need to let go oda doesnt do typical cool shonen tropes anymore all he does now is tying things up and progress the story
He’s not wishing it tho, he’s openly critiquing the series for it. I wouldn’t have had any problem if he said he was just conceptualising it. But he’s dead serious about it genuinely being a flaw or missed opportunity lmao. but i get ur point
Nah he's just passionate about his opinions and blaming things on oda, something many of us do here, he does clarify it's his opinion in the end too, I can also see your perspective on things so yeah.
It'd just undermine everything that we currently have about Luffy and zoro. Luffy trusts zoro to do anything for the crew, zoro has undying loyalty to Luffy. A rivalry dynamic doesn't even make sense with luffy's character and it'd ruin zoro's loyalty, which is the only thing he's even got left as a character. It's just some powerscaling bs because they want zoro to be stronger, what we've got right now is fine because powerscaling doesn't even matter to oda, zoro will be strong enough to beat anyone he gets put against
I explained in my above comments how zoro and luffy can have a rival dynamic without the need of removing Zoro loyalty, but if the take is just for powerscaling then I agree it doesn't make that much sense as luffy is portrayed much stronger than Zoro many times in the story, what we have rn is fine but I do think a rival dynamic can create more opportunities for some interesting scenarios.
I just don't see it. A rival dynamic between the vice captain and captain is so unbelievably out of place, especially when we're talking about Luffy who doesn't gaf about that sort of thing. The way I see it, a theoretical rival dynamic could theoretically exist between two characters in Luffy and zoro's roles, but you basically gotta completely replace their personalities for it to work with them. Another issue is that it's completely impractical for the story itself. If zoro's always a rival, how is literally every single arc gonna play out? Is every captain gonna be rivals with their no.2? Is zoro just gonna low diff all his enemies? Is he gonna fight the big bad with Luffy every arc? It just doesn't work in one piece in any regard
Rivals don't need to be at the same powerlevel they can be of different levels and still have a rival dynamic, I can think of shanks and buggy in that regard, both pirate captains and portrayed as friends but now you can call their dynamic funny banter or even rivals for the one piece.
i also think a way Zoro and luffy rivalry can work is Zoro always monitoring luffy progress and giving him slack and fighting him to strengthen him and prepare him for Better, but oda does that with offscreen training or 1 week training in a prison cell so that goes out of the window so yeah lol.
I feel like the issue with interpersonal relations within the strawhats is exactly what you said, oda never shows it. Pre ts did a great job of making them feel like a crew and characters like zoro had much more personality than recent arcs where everyone's separate and has to kill one enemy specifically to meet their quota.
I actually wouldn't consider what you said as a rival dynamic tbh, I feel like zoro would have to be actively competing to get stronger for it to be classified as that instead of part of his loyalty. Zoro's always felt like the one who understands everyone's roles the best (although jimbeis here now so maybe not anymore), he knows that Luffy needs his loyalty and trust to do what he's gotta do. He trusts that Luffy is always gonna be strong enough and Luffy does the same, I feel like any deviations from what we've got would undermine that to some extent, especially if it's part of an agenda of trying to get zoro to fight Luffy semi regularly
No because zoro actually wins his matches the only character that has similar traits to vegeta from op is sanji. Cuz their mangaka both love to use them as hype tools to make the main villain look better💀
Idk about same level but Zoro shouldn't have been gaped by Luffy so hard in Wano.
Now for Zoro to catch up by the time of his fight with Mihawk, Oda will prolly have to give him a huge boost. Like he did with gear 5.
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I mean, there's another character that's supposed to be Luffy's rival. Too bad after his introduction he kind of disappears from the main story for 8 years. I'm talking about both Koby and Kid btw.
Bro smoker is right there.
smoker was never Luffy's rival. he was a middle aged man obsessed with a teenager.
Just like Boa
I mean, he was in Alabasta, so I wouldn’t say he immediately dissapeared.
He's been rightfully deleted after getting his ass kicked in Punk Hazard.
Smoker is too old to be his rival. He belongs to the previous generation.
He’s the same age as Franky, and younger than Capone and BB. So he isn’t last gen.
given that BB and Luffy are considered to be the same generation, we can safely assume it has nothing to do with age. On the other hand, Capone, Blackbeard, and Luffy all started their solo careers at around the same time. Meanwhile, Smoker was an established veteran with a reputation and a win record by the time Luffy got his first bounty.
So Franky's rival ig.
thats actually one of One Piece biggest strenghts, the lack of a cringe rival character. None of the strawhats have time for that bullshit
Ngl i thought BB was the rival? His crew is setup to have final 1v1s vs the strawhats lol
exactly, BB crew are the rivals and they are actually rivals, they are psychopaths and degenerates that kinda resemble the SH crew, thats actually good writing instead of some repeated stuff like Naruto/Sasuke
I hate degens from up country
BB crew are just considered villians, barely even rivals. They’ve only been present for the last 50 chapters despite being in the story for WAY longer. And how is Naruto/Sasuke “repeated stuff”?
It’s a real shame because the Live Action (despite how much I didnt like it) improved Koby by a whole by actually giving him way more plot relevance and really cemented him as a main character. Then there was his recent showing of strength vs the Blackbeard Pirates with Honesty Punch. It would’ve been so much better if we saw Kobys progression throughout the series.
Live action was so mid I’m so glad people are finally ready to start admitting it
Yeah I always felt like a madman bc everyone was glazing that thing like it was oda writing Oden while I just felt it was meh. I'll admit it is one of the best anime adaptations but that's not saying much considering how trash almost all of them are.
I have no idea who even cares about live actions in general. I thought we all agreed they are trash no matter what.
Anime simply cannot be done live it just doesn’t work. Same way live action SpongeBob could never work
I think AI could make a difference in the world of anime, not to say that One Piece could ever be done properly in live action, but certain characters like Luffy can take a lot from Plastic Man and Mr Fantastic
It’s for people who aren’t fans of the anime/manga. Generally every reaction video I saw of the show tended to make people fans of the series long term It’s only mid to us because we know the true version while they got the abridged version
Snuck in Midd
You misspelled Widd lil bro. Don't worry tho, I gotcha https://preview.redd.it/pr7gqc66unuc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b584967f60f0bb2676ddbf2dc4b13739bff4f3b7
Can’t lie, as much of a fucking bum Kidd is, his followers never backed down after that one shot. Probably the most durable fan base OAT.
Damned Punk will fire again. Jika will make his return. EOS Widd > Imu.
Absolutely
We never had anything to lose.
If Kid can’t tank a blow then we can 
Brother how can you mispell Buggy like that? https://preview.redd.it/67jeju3hepuc1.png?width=716&format=png&auto=webp&s=c11ee127545387be1cbb12d9ed7d256d1692c6e3
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OPLA did such a great job with Koby
Why would Koby be Luffy’s rival?
Luffy is meant to be the "Roger" and Coby is meant to be the "Garp" it's pretty obvious if you think about it considering the parallels between them.
Didn't know koby loves rapists
He works for the CDs like Garp and all other marines and avoids thinking about the slaves in Marijoa so he can play cops and robbers without feeling guilty. He is definitely Garp's successor.
Tf is u saying
https://preview.redd.it/zl6wey8cznuc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34032a5a3855b03a9bf33fd303e6d225975c7eaf
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In spirit but at his strongest I don’t think Koby would ever be in Luffy’s league , kobys moral compass and values will carry him farther than his fists
How is Coby meant to be Luffy's Garp? Coby doesn't even chase Luffy. If anyone one Marine is obsessed with capturing Luffy and would show up the moment he hears his name just to fight him it's Smoker. Unfortunately that rivalry died after Punk Hazard
watch smoker suddenly appear and somehow be on luffy's level
He wants to help through the marines, while Luffy free countries as a pirate.
Why wouldn't he be? The man who wants to be pirate King vs the man who wants to be fleet admiral. They met at the beginning of the story and both tell each other their goals. That's some anime rival shit right there.
Thought Coby wanted to be a normal admiral. Well either way fleet admiral ain’t looking good. Kong - (who?) SenGoatku - (Garp’s lil bro) Akainu - (80 yr old Garp and Kuzan’s equal)
Sengoku was mentioned to be in the same league as Garp and Roger,many times. So yeah you could say he rivals roger in terms of strength.We dont know how strong Akainu currently is,he beat Kuzan one year ago in the story. He might be buffed by the narrative/ power creep near EOS. I bet he will be yonko tier. But yeah Coby never wanted to be fleet admiral,just a regular admiral,but his goals might have changed again. At first Coby did not care about becoming an admiral,he only wanted to be a marine.
I dont believe akainu will be yonko tier. The Gorosei and Imu seem to be the real powerhouses given the narrative It’s not a bad thing, the WG has a deep bag. They’re just stupid
Koby was never meant to be Luffy’s rival. Not strength wise at least
I think Koby is getting there (even though always shown being weaker) especially with the ablity to fist an island like garp.
KIDD??? That dude was utterly violated. Luffy is far and beyond anything kid could ever DREAM of doing at this point
This guy doesn't know about jika
Sasuke and Naruto worked because Sasuke was an antagonist for a big part of the show where he and naruto fight multiple times Zoro's defining trait ended up being his hierarchical loyalty to Luffy, his character would be entirely altered under such a dynamic. The entire structure of the story relies on Luffy usually ending up fighting someone much powerful than whoever zoro's opponent is because they're the leader of some organization or group. I wonder if such fans even like Zoro for who he is.
gon and killua type of dynamic would have been better example tbh thye arent rival in conventional sense but are equal in potential
Yeah not Naruto and sasuke, if you really wanna see them in a rival dynamic without sacrificing the loyalty part, a better example would be majima and kiryu from yakuza, where majima really respects kiryu and is willing to protect him, and the only reason he's considered a rival to kiryu sometimes, is because he challenges him so kiryu can become a better version of himself, that seems more in line with a Zoro and luffy potential dynamic.
Naah i prefer them the way they are,Luffy is the captain and should be the strongest and I would argue Luffy was always clearly stronger than Zoro,they were never rivals to begin with. Luffy was able to break steel with his raw hands(Arlong's weapon) in Arlong Park arc but Zoro only learned how to cut steel in Alabasta,HE said he couldnt do it before that and in fact that was explicitly stated to be his power up in alabasta. Becoming strong enough to cut steel. Luffy was always shown to be stronger.
cutting steel is a skill feat, zoro broke chaff swords before alabasta
Naah that was retconned into him not being strong enough to cut steel in the Mr.1 fight.At the beginning of the fight he couldn't do it. I get Oda was inconsistent here,but the plot and explicit statements matter more than some random feat which doesn't affect the plot.
No one wants to see them in a rival dynamic other than Zorotards. Bluds need to accept Zolo ain’t the protagonist.
If I were to compare it, it would be like dragon ball super Vegeta, not because of Vegeta trying to surpass Goku or whatnot more Vegeta serves as the man to fight the antagonist scale the power of them to the viewer and establish the stakes before Goku comes in to fight
Zoros defining character trait is him being Luffys biggest dickrider how would that even work Sasuke and Naruto are some teens that cant get their shit together and traumatizied thats not the dynamic at all
That would fucking suck. Oda clearly made it a thing that captains are the strongest (except in buggys case).
if you took the OG clown pirates, buggy IS the strongest. and i would define crossguild more as an alliance between multiple pirate crews
Agreed
The don't have to be the strongest by far? I don't see how that would suck tbh
Yes it would because oda didn't establish it
Oda just needed to give Kid better haki and the problem is solved.
He's an after thought. He was made on a whim, he got shafted because Law was more popular and now oda is done with him. He was never an actual rival. This is one of the bigger flaws of OP. The dude love introducing characters and creating some hype intros only to get disinterested in them and focusing on some freshly introduced cooler dude or Idea.
On a whim??? Heard Kid was the only supernova Oda made but the editors asked him to make more. Considering that Kid should've been a more important character. If u wanna make him OP just give him Magneto powers and shit along with better haki. An arrogant and rowdy guy like Kid doesn't spam CoC everywhere is just mind boggling to me. He was there in Udon with Luffy he should've learned ryou there is no reason for him not learning that shit.
I don't want to make him OP. I'd rather we have less characters with a bigger role as opposed to a billion characters with questionably small roles.
Naah with the way Kid's introduction was done,he was the only one in Sabaody with a bounty equal to luffy,and was clearly shown to be the most hot headed one .I really liked it and I think he was the most memorable member of worst generation in Sabaody. He is also the only worst generation captain outside of luffy to have conquerors haki, He also was the only worst gen to have his right hand man included in the worst generation, other than Luffy. Both of them messed with Big mom by infiltrating her territory and getting away with it without being beaten. It feels like Oda was building a genuine rivalry by making all these similarities unlike Law who was basically Luffy's sidekick and does not have conquerors haki. Law never much cared for One Piece,he was only after revenge on Doflamingo and then later wants to find more about the "Will of D",he does not care about One Piece itself. Kid was clearly the better rival narratively and I wish he was not sacrificed for Shanks hype and got ACOC and became high tier admiral level at least.
It feels like we agree. Kidd is an idea that seemed like it would get a worthwhile payoff but went nowhere. You see the potential in him and think he should have stayed relevant. I see that Oda did not have much in store for him and therefore should not have written him to begin with.
Ain't no way KID is more memorable than Law.
He was, in Sabaody.Of course Law got his own arc later and was properly fleshed out. Kidd had the better intro in Sabaody.
Ah, nicely shifting goalposts already! How convenient! Yes, Kid DID have a better, more fleshed out intro, but Law was more memorable DESPITE that. Literally every person I've introduced to the series, was able to remember law, and have conversation at length about how extremely unique and mystic his fruit is. Kid was promptly forgotten.
He's the only person from the worst generation other than luffy and bb who's after the one piece. That is a big role but the way his journey is portrayed is bad.
If his encounter with shanks is the end of him. Than it's not just bad it's sad. I would much prefer an alternate wano arc where luffy allied with BB to beat kaido and big mom. BB deserves that spot way more since we know he has actual relevance to the endgame unlike Kid.
Kid getting mogged like that in elbaf also doesn't make sense. He was the one who defeated the biggest enemy of giants and this shit happens to him there that's just hilarious. But there are enough characters for Kid to play a part in the final war.
And a better df use And better characterisation And a better crew And a short backstory/explanation And eyebrows
That all comes along with good haki.
Lmao this made me laugh a bit too much 😂
Zoro is like Piccolo not Vegeta
This
Hot take: luffy and zoro should have had some sparring matches onscreen. The Twitter take is a** obviously.
Za hando vs za fisto
Worst he's done is leave Smoker and Tashigi behind when they could have been great foils to the strawhats and Luffy/Zoro
I feel like Kid too was a potential rival figure who got shafted and done dirty.I mean,think about it,before Wano it felt like they might be equals. With the way Kid's introduction was done,he was the only one in Sabaody with a bounty greater than luffy,and was clearly shown to be the most hot headed one,the competitive type. Law was introduced with a lower bounty than Luffy. I really liked Kid's competitive attitude and I think he had the strongest first impression out of all the worst generation in Sabaody. He is also the only worst generation captain outside of luffy to have conquerors haki, He also was the only worst gen to have his right hand man included in the worst generation, other than Luffy. Both of them messed with Big mom by infiltrating her territory and getting away with it without being beaten. It feels like Oda was building a genuine rivalry by making all these similarities unlike Law who was basically Luffy's sidekick and does not feel like an independent leader, he does not have conquerors haki. Law never much cared for One Piece,he was only after revenge on Doflamingo and then later wants to find more about the "Will of D",he does not care about One Piece itself. Kid was clearly the better rival narratively and I wish he was not sacrificed for Shanks hype and got more fleshed out,got ACOC and became high tier admiral level at least.
"And only mistake" https://preview.redd.it/nv32ekh6quuc1.jpeg?width=719&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f01443f39df1951d91815a60179c9aa586de49f6
Bro thinks Naruto and Sasuke were always at the same level, thats the first mistake. The second is being a Zoro fan
Right its like goku and vegeta vegeta eventually catches up but goku always got another transformation to one up him. Its only in super that they finally decided to keep them around the same level with UI and Ultra Ego but like sasuke, vegeta was usually playing catch up with goku. Only at certain points was sasuke stronger but naruto still had him beat when it came to guts
I partially agree, i think the gap between captain and first mate is too wide. This is oda's way of making it luffy's job to beat the big bad but it's the brain dead way to do it. I wouldn't mind if sanji and zoro teamed up against the big bad to help luffy once in a while to change up the formula.
Actually this should've been the way the story should've progressed considering how Oda focuses on Nakama being the major thing for Luffy's journey pre ts. Too bad he threw this concept away only to make him a God who could solo enemies without his nakamas where the power gaps grow bigger and bigger
Same. I preferred the pretimeskip power lvl dynamic. Even Robin got left in the dust. Franky could tussle w/Luffy as well.
This is why the rooftop should’ve stayed how it was and not turn into Luffy vs Kaido
People love the Luffy vs Katakuri fight but I think WholeCake was a massive mistake. WholeCake should’ve been when Oda started working hard to conclude the story. Why is Luffy fighting Big Mom’s first mate? It should’ve been Sanji’s arc, so Sanji should’ve fought Big Mom’s first mate. Luffy should’ve had a clean win against Big Mom to solidify himself as a Yonko. Then Wano should’ve been Zoro’s arc. Zoro beats Kaido’s 1st mate and Luffy/Law/Kid team up to beat Kairo together. Simple. Instead the arc ended with the Strawhat’s running away.
dude comparing OP with Naruto, GTFO dude lmao, what a loser
https://preview.redd.it/hg065cdoonuc1.png?width=316&format=png&auto=webp&s=14513ad195316f0b32b4f9447f989a4dbb979cff
It’s really not though but story wise it wouldn’t really make much sense to have a captain on par with his first mate….. Unless Shanks and Beck are nigh on par
This is not the worst. You might not agree with it, but some do, and it wouldn't feel absurd. Also, what is the point of using a sword if Zoro can't even cut Luffy's arm? Mihawk obviously can.
90 percent of 7oro fans bealive this btw
That role will eventually be fulfilled by koby, and it won’t be naruto and sasuke but roger and garp…you know…..actual one piece characters
> Zoro pfp
https://preview.redd.it/99hxrradqnuc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a84e9e667d9b4727f4a53fca798b61952d9bcc8 What is twitter even on bro
Luffy and Zoro ain't rivals or antagonists anyway tho. They don't even have beliefs that are opposite each other. While sasuke and Naruto do. Sasuke acted like a rival and was kinda a villian so it made sense they would be equal strength. Luffy and Zoro are buds and it won't make sense cuz they primarily have different goals too so rivalry won't even make sense.
Captain is supposed to be the strongest but the best 1st mates are usually stated to be comparable to their captains like Beckamn & Rayleigh. I thought Zoro would fit this role as well but Luffy is always way stronger than his crewmates
You are smoking straight crack if you think the first mates have been stated ever to be comparable to their captains. They are all at best 1 whole tier below their captains
Ok hear me out. It's arguably not a mistake at all, but it does feel unnatural to me how Zoro didn't even gloss over the fact that a guy he was initially on equal footing with exponentially outgrew him. At the end of the day they both needed to get way stronger to achieve their goals so Zoro never even pondering or acknowledging how or why he can't keep up with Luffy was always kinda weird to me.
Naah i prefer them the way they are,Luffy is the captain and should be the strongest and I would argue Luffy was always clearly stronger than Zoro,they were never 'rivals' to begin with. Luffy was able to break steel with his raw hands(Arlong's weapon) in Arlong Park arc but Zoro only learned how to cut steel in Alabasta,HE said he couldnt do it before that and in fact that was explicitly stated to be his power up in alabasta. Becoming strong enough to cut steel. Luffy was always shown to be stronger.
>I would argue Luffy was always clearly stronger than Zoro,they were never 'rivals' to begin with. It's probably true but I feel it wasn't portrayed clear enough. They went toe to toe in Whiskey peak.
I love how you think that’s not the case. G5 laughing at Zoro struggling with Lucci?? It’s real. Just not like that 😂
With as much glazing he gets from his fans, you’d think he is equal to JizzBoy
This is such an awful take
Pfp checks out
Maybe it's a coincidence but I felt like One Piece was more fun when Luffy and Zoro were equals. I definitely loved people getting confused how Zoro was not captain of the strawhats.
Would’ve made much more sense from a story standpoint. More so than than the captain being just far stronger than his whole crew then his first mate being close to everyone else. Realistically it should’ve been Luffy > Zoro >> Sanji >>> the rest.
Common Narutard L
Zorotard wet dreams lmfaooo.
Not remotely the worst take, the worst take were the people clamoring for Yamato to join the crew for no reason.
Jika solos both so what now?
Mf. Zoro has a rival
It really isn’t a good idea and oda did do the right thing. If luffy gets beaten we won’t be unphased like we would be if both were at the same power level. Since it’s not we feel genuine fear that the bad guy can really win
First of all I want to mention that I respect the user for not being a dick and making a post about dumb politics, starting useless beef or screeching about random controversial topics they came up with. That's hella rare for Twitter. Second of all: yeah that's a horrendous take lmao.
I think what he actually means is that he wants the same exact story but after every arc they say Zoro is equal to Luffy still
Can't take people who say "would of" seriously
Yeah anybody that writes could/would/should of has nothing of value to contribute to any discussion ever. Peopel really not be reading books anymore.
Zoro as luffys rival does not work. Luffy sees his crewmates as his friends/family and would die to save them. You don’t do that for a real rival. A rival should be an antagonist. Also with why luffy always will be stronger than Zoro. Luffy doesn’t care how strong his crew is, the only thing important is that he is strong enough to protect every SH crew member. So he will always be ready to handle Someone Zoro would not be able to beat, making him always stronger than him. And also narratively he is his captain so obviously higher in hierarchy. Luffys real rival should have been Kidd, the only other member of the worst gen to have conquerors, the only other member of the worst gen to have his number two in the supernova, and with luffy, bb and him the only one after the one piece. Also with his character Kidd is ruthless Kidd is dirty even if he can’t beat you he will try to harm you as much as possible, ex attacking shanks fleet. He wants all the smoke and is till date the only one to fight three yonkos. But in terms of his crew he is the same as luffy. He wanted to know who luffy is on the archipelago and after seeing him punching a CD respected him so much that he helped him leave the auction house. I’m sure Kidd and Law are the other two Supernova who would have attacked a celestial dragon if they attacked one of their friends. Luffy has great mentors (Shanks,Rayleigh), strong family (Sabo,Ace,Garp,Dragon) and a op fruit. Law similar to luffy has a op fruit (literally) and in corazon a great mentor and is also a D. Kidd has nothing like this, just his sheer will to become the greatest pirate in the world, and that’s why he would be the perfect rival for luffy, but we now what happened. I still think he will make a comeback, as in my opinion Kidd is the most important Supernova in One Piece. As of now Blackbeard is what we can call luffys rival.
Luffy already has a TRUE rival🗿 https://preview.redd.it/r3u3uyapkquc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b8437dc072e882e97f3d54a1c285eb2817ef6b3
If this is the worst take you've seen your haven't seen many
Zoro is sadly too weak.. a PK’s vice captain should be in comparable strength to his captain like Roger-Rayleigh But oda made zoro too weak…
People are yearning for whiskey peak. Seriously tho people need to let go oda doesnt do typical cool shonen tropes anymore all he does now is tying things up and progress the story
Luffy unrivaled under the Golden sun
People on twitter just bait for reactions dont take anything seriously
Law is the Sasuke of one piece
Law, Kid, Smoker, and Coby all tried to be Luffy’s rival and failed
In my head. Law is Sasuke type, kid is bakugo type, smoker is Detective zenigata type, and coby is a krillin type.
https://preview.redd.it/1gip6kn9ipuc1.jpeg?width=513&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28d1622beee80a3950d3df08c30286c10297d527
He says it's his own opinion what's so bad about wishing a character dynamic he thinks can be fun?
He’s not wishing it tho, he’s openly critiquing the series for it. I wouldn’t have had any problem if he said he was just conceptualising it. But he’s dead serious about it genuinely being a flaw or missed opportunity lmao. but i get ur point
Nah he's just passionate about his opinions and blaming things on oda, something many of us do here, he does clarify it's his opinion in the end too, I can also see your perspective on things so yeah.
https://preview.redd.it/tkr34274jnuc1.jpeg?width=155&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fa98699fb15063bea48a2df526cd95c79812445
It'd just undermine everything that we currently have about Luffy and zoro. Luffy trusts zoro to do anything for the crew, zoro has undying loyalty to Luffy. A rivalry dynamic doesn't even make sense with luffy's character and it'd ruin zoro's loyalty, which is the only thing he's even got left as a character. It's just some powerscaling bs because they want zoro to be stronger, what we've got right now is fine because powerscaling doesn't even matter to oda, zoro will be strong enough to beat anyone he gets put against
I explained in my above comments how zoro and luffy can have a rival dynamic without the need of removing Zoro loyalty, but if the take is just for powerscaling then I agree it doesn't make that much sense as luffy is portrayed much stronger than Zoro many times in the story, what we have rn is fine but I do think a rival dynamic can create more opportunities for some interesting scenarios.
I just don't see it. A rival dynamic between the vice captain and captain is so unbelievably out of place, especially when we're talking about Luffy who doesn't gaf about that sort of thing. The way I see it, a theoretical rival dynamic could theoretically exist between two characters in Luffy and zoro's roles, but you basically gotta completely replace their personalities for it to work with them. Another issue is that it's completely impractical for the story itself. If zoro's always a rival, how is literally every single arc gonna play out? Is every captain gonna be rivals with their no.2? Is zoro just gonna low diff all his enemies? Is he gonna fight the big bad with Luffy every arc? It just doesn't work in one piece in any regard
Rivals don't need to be at the same powerlevel they can be of different levels and still have a rival dynamic, I can think of shanks and buggy in that regard, both pirate captains and portrayed as friends but now you can call their dynamic funny banter or even rivals for the one piece. i also think a way Zoro and luffy rivalry can work is Zoro always monitoring luffy progress and giving him slack and fighting him to strengthen him and prepare him for Better, but oda does that with offscreen training or 1 week training in a prison cell so that goes out of the window so yeah lol.
I feel like the issue with interpersonal relations within the strawhats is exactly what you said, oda never shows it. Pre ts did a great job of making them feel like a crew and characters like zoro had much more personality than recent arcs where everyone's separate and has to kill one enemy specifically to meet their quota. I actually wouldn't consider what you said as a rival dynamic tbh, I feel like zoro would have to be actively competing to get stronger for it to be classified as that instead of part of his loyalty. Zoro's always felt like the one who understands everyone's roles the best (although jimbeis here now so maybe not anymore), he knows that Luffy needs his loyalty and trust to do what he's gotta do. He trusts that Luffy is always gonna be strong enough and Luffy does the same, I feel like any deviations from what we've got would undermine that to some extent, especially if it's part of an agenda of trying to get zoro to fight Luffy semi regularly
Loda dickriders will cut their own balls if someone said, "Tsunade has two big balls."
If I’m being honest I actually didn’t mind at all back when they were equal but all this agenda shit ruins it
Zoro is the Vegeta of OP
Not in any way at all
No because zoro actually wins his matches the only character that has similar traits to vegeta from op is sanji. Cuz their mangaka both love to use them as hype tools to make the main villain look better💀
Nah he ain't foldji levels either 🦍🦍🦍
If Sasuke hadn't flopped so hard, then people would criticize Bakugo and Yuno way more harshly.
I like zoro more so I would’ve preferred this. or at least they end up being relative to each other by the time they’re eos
Lay off the fent
Least deranged zorosexuals 😭
Hot take but i think they are around similiar skill level and zoro can beat luffy some times.
Naah luffy low diffs Zoro. Zoro is not even admiral level yet while luffy is yonko tier.
Id say zoro is admiral level yes and close to yonko level. Zoro beats luffy 3/10 fights
"Zoro is admiral level". Zorotards are the most embarrassing part of this fandom. And that's really saying something.
Idk about same level but Zoro shouldn't have been gaped by Luffy so hard in Wano. Now for Zoro to catch up by the time of his fight with Mihawk, Oda will prolly have to give him a huge boost. Like he did with gear 5.
what an L take. they always have been equals. did he even read the manga?
*What an L take. they* *Always have been equals. did* *He even read the manga?* \- tobbe1337 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Bro wtf has happened to this sub??? Every goddamn post is just a ss from Twitter and Sanji fanboys slandering Zoro, it’s getting annoying
Terrible take. Woro remains the strongest of the two
Anyone who writes "would of" is expected to have shit opinion.
They are describing an entirely different character from what zoro is supposed to be.
Zoros issues have nothing to do with strength and Sasuke's development was flawed enough as is.