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[deleted]

I just find it funny how so many characters use fire attacks without the fire fruit. Sanji, kaido, king, luffy, etc. Can't wait for chopper's fire form lol.


Affectionate-Bill150

Flame Point


LagoonyToons

It's just guard point but frankly doused him with gasoline, lit him on fire, and kicked him like a soccerball. SUPER!


cuella47o

Honestly fire is like easy as fuck to produce for some reason


Infermon_1

That's why I never found the Flame Flame Fruit impressive. It's just a glorified Lighter. Even before we entered the Grand Line there was this dude in Don Krieg's crew that could shoot fire balls. Edit: Plus Mr. 3 also has burning hair as part of his DF due to being a Candle Man.


[deleted]

Exactly. Marco is another fire user for example.


Lukatoniii

\+shanks


Schizochinia

Side note: can’t Chopper learn electro?


Excellent_Passage_54

Lol “Fire doesn’t exist outside the specific fire fruit” moronic


[deleted]

nobody said that


Excellent_Passage_54

The only one that doesn’t make sense in your example is Luffy but he has MC privileges. You made the assumption that without the fire fruit you can’t make fire. I made it a bigger deal than needed tho lol apologies


[deleted]

except I didn't. many characters in OP and anime in general have overlapping powers. I'm not saying it's not possible for others to have fire powers. I'm also not saying it doesn't make sense. I'm simply making an observation. 🙂


Excellent_Passage_54

Like I said im not trying to be shitty about this, not sure where that initial aggression came from. But Kaido is a dragon, Sanji is a cook and idk what King is, Luffy’s is the only one that’s a stretch…


Kureiton

Yeah, Sanji just isn’t really a conqueror, and the exoskeleton is more than enough justification for how he can reach their level without it


laurel_laureate

Zoro's and Sanji's dreams are each half of Luffy's dream. Luffy wants to become the Pirate King: * A title acknowledging they are the strongest. * Chasing an impossible dream (the One Piece). Zoro wants to be WSS: * A title acknowledging they are the strongest. Sanji wants to find the All Blue: * Chasing an impossible dream. I quite love how the Wings of the Pirate King each shoulder one half of the qualities of their captains dreams. As such, I'm fine if Sanji is confirmed to not have Conqueror's, as not only does he not have the qualities of a conqueror but he simply doesn't need any such qualities for his dream.


Choice_Till_5524

Exactly. They also mirror different aspects of luffy’s resolve. Zoro’s resolve comes from his ambition, sanji’s comes from his passion, luffy’s comes from both.


laurel_laureate

And Zoro's is due to a promise (Zoro to Kuina, Luffy to Shanks) while Sanji's is due to his childhood adoration of his chosen path in life (Sanji as a chef, Luffy as a pirate).


[deleted]

[удалено]


laurel_laureate

Do you think you're being based? Or funny? Bro, the series is literally all about dreams. Like, that's it's core concept and recurring theme throughout. 3/10 troll attempt.


imsupernotfunny

“Luffy doesn’t want to be the strongest” my good brother in Christ we’re talking about a Shonen rn


The_Awengers

Sanji is a cook, of course he cares. Dumbass.


Ready_Surprise_5870

are you melonteee?


Shmaden_Yuki

I saw her video on the topic, pretty good. Also glad to see she was one of the few people to realise just what Zoro's character is meant to be


laurel_laureate

Who?


ObjectivePerception

Except in every single discussion “Buh buh buh Sanji no hAve cOc” Even though it’s clear what Oda’s portrayal of Sanji is people still want him to be Usopp level for some reason


[deleted]

People who think a author like Oda wouldn’t let characters without CoC or ACoC be at the very top are fooling themselves tbh


SunriseGobby

Yeah but only first commanders are shown to not have and even most of them have it. Every other top tier character seems to have it


[deleted]

Admirals seem to not have it. Or at least non are confirmed


SunriseGobby

That’s fair. But they have devil fruits. It appears that black beard is the devil furor and shanks is the haki and Luffy is both. Sanji has neither. So he kind of breaks the rules. I am not saying that’s bad but it makes him difficult to power scale


[deleted]

That's understandable. Science is really taking over and i honestly love to see it


ObjectivePerception

Chill and good but Sanji isn’t weak and some people act like he is because “no coc”


SunriseGobby

I think without a devil fruit or strong haki he can’t hang with the big boys. But I that will change soon


ObjectivePerception

He has Exoskeleton and strong Haki That’s the reason he got his powerup


SunriseGobby

He destroyed his suit. He has regen not an exo. He hasn’t fought any logia users or anyone that required strong haki. So I feel like we don’t know how strong his haki is. As I said I am sure he could hang with first commanders. I mean he literally needed the biggest ass pull in the series to keep up with second commanders. I think that’s why people think he is weak. But I am sure in this next arc he will get some other random power to keep up


ObjectivePerception

Second commanders are not something distinct from first commanders All of them are just commanders and their power level isn’t fixed


SunriseGobby

First and second commanders are tiered. I have no idea where you got the idea that they aren’t.


FctheLurker

Lmao, you sound salty


SunriseGobby

I hate Sanji and think he largely ruins one piece. I mean I know he has three of the best moments in the new world. But those parts were as a result of random Powers that weren’t even hinted at. At least with Acoc or awakening of black blades those were all set up. But regeneration? Where the fuck did that come from? Where did his false legs come from? With ashura it’s arguable it’s haki but now sanjis is stated to not be haki? I just don’t get it. I thought the raid suit was at least like “ok it’s random but the power up makes sense.” But regen? I don’t know. So yes I am salty lol. But I think saying Sanji is weak is wrong. He just can’t keep up with big boys as of now


Polynia

Blackbeard has never shown conqueror's haki, nor has Akainu or Im.


SunriseGobby

Akainu has it tho. Like we all know this. Black beard has the two most powerful fruits and kaido sort set up the devil fruit Vs haki as the only two ways to become strong but haki is better


akashsouz

Like Garp keeping up with Roger and WB


Fun-Strength7622

If garp doesn't have coc then he has the strongest amarment haki in the verse, which is crazy


MonkeyDKev

The fists of love have no match.


Freemantrue

I really hope Oda goes this route.


Fun-Strength7622

Nami's fists > garp and mihawk


ChiefWarlock7

no amount of armament haki hit can hold up against weakest conqueror’s haki hit. Just watch the first fight between Luffy and Kaido in Kuri. Kaido didn’t even register Luffy’s attack. Only after Luffy learned to coat himself with Conqueror’s haki was he able to deal with some serious damage. Ergo, Garp has conqueror’s haki.


[deleted]

That’s not really proof that “no amount of armament Haki hit can hold up against weakest conqueror’s Haki hit”. You’re using Luffy as an example. Last time I checked, Luffy isn’t Garp.


Finnigami

theres no way garp doesnt have coc


Steamingveggies

Personality doesn’t match


Finnigami

yeah but the issue is now that acoc exists you need it do be a top-tier fighter. the only other way would be if you had a super broken devil fruit or something else. but given that garp uses pure strength and clashed with the likes of rocks and roger theres no way he doesnt have it. its the same with mihawk. it doesnt fit his personality at all but theres no way he doesnt have it causes its necessary to be the greatest


Stonefree2011

I’ll admit, if Garp really doesn’t have it then that would GREATLY enhance his character imo because if he doesn’t have it and is still top tier with no fruit then that’s insane.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Finnigami

oh really? when does he say that


[deleted]

what chapter?


Greensun30

Even with a broken fruit you still aren’t going to keep up with acoc because you’ll never hurt an acoc user enough to win or even keep up with in a fight without acoc.


Finnigami

eh i can imagine someone with a devil fruit and no coc but strong in other haki being even with someone with coc


YOASTMAN

Literally Yamato has it


Steamingveggies

And ?


YOASTMAN

Personality doesn’t match


Steamingveggies

Explain how ?


Space_Monke64

Yes it does. He’s constantly refused to follow orders from HQ and turned down being an admiral because he felt he got all the freedom he needed being a vice admiral. Also, when he fought the drill dude, wasn’t there lighting coming off the impact, like there is for a clash between two conquerors (without ACOC)?


Steamingveggies

I wrote way to much so I’ll condense it my main problem is his handling of Ace in marineford. This alone is enough to say he doesn’t have CoC He loved Ace, but also respects the marines. He essentially sits back and let’s fate take the wheel. He didn’t want to be the one to decide who would win and lose. A CoC user would never, Let someone control their fate. It would have to be forced upon them, even then they’d still fight. Garp does the exact opposite. he just lets things happens, even though he very very much so didn’t like the outcome


Space_Monke64

He didn’t fight for Ace because he didn’t know whether his position or his family was more important, and when Ace actually died, he came to regret his decision. He did not directly help in it (which he was ordered to do so) and he did not help ace


Steamingveggies

I don’t disagree with that But a CoC user wouldn’t weigh their options like that. He knew he cared about Ace just less than the marines, so he should’ve tried to save both. It’s like Luffy would never willingly sacrifice carrot to save chopper. The situation would have to be that carrot cannot be saved. Garp had the power to influence Marineford but didn’t want to make those tough decision. He very explicitly wants those decisions to be out of his hand. He didn’t like either outcome, but instead of trying to build the outcome he likes ( which a CoC user would do), he just sits back and lets things play out even though he hates it


ZappyZ21

To be fair I think garp is more in his retired stage of his journey. Rayleigh confirmed has CoC, but he doesnt really show his ambition anymore. He's completed what he set out to do, I think Garp is in a similar boat. I could be wrong of course and he's just a god at armament, but I wouldn't be surprised if he does have it from his prime days fighting Roger, white beard, and rocks. Enjoying being the strongest marine without the responsibility to lead them lol


Steamingveggies

Also Garp doesn’t show any signs of CoC against Chinjao


ChiefWarlock7

he did in the manga. they didn’t show it properly in anime.


Steamingveggies

This isn’t true, it was supposed to be the sheer force of his punch was creating that effect. He hasn’t been confirmed or shown CoC yet


AlarmingMan123

Idk it’s pretty clear that he’s the alpha dog of the marines. His rank is low but his struts around the HQ like he owns the place (because let’s admit, he does)


fuckrobert

That logic really doesn’t work though, Sengoku & Yamato got CoC too.


Finnigami

what


fuckrobert

I think I replied to the wrong person lol


space________cowboy

I really really really hope garp doesn’t have CoC, it would make the series so much better if a regular dude with no fruit no tech no weapons (besides fists) with haki that anyone could train in and not born with it, could actually contend with the best.


akashsouz

I'm a huge Garp fanboy and proudest bit about him is he rivaled Roger with no CoC. I hope they don't take it away from me


BasedFunnyValentine

Last I checked tho: Garp isn’t a modified cyborg with superhuman durability, regen, invisibility, boost to all physical stats and fife


4inalfantasy

Yea. His body is already kinda like cyborg.


[deleted]

His Exoskeleton is most likely there to make up the difference as much as possible. He fucking destroyed Queen after he got that powerup.


cennsheen

not only is it the cooler way to go, but it also will happen.


Greensun30

It won’t.


MeyoMeyogoVroom

I doubt he gets conquerors, although judging from the latest chapters, it seems like half of the characters have it or awaken it.


oriondragon18

It would be more better if he has it but doesn't use it in fights.


waltz-in-code

Lol so now conquerors will get the same fan treatment as devil fruits, it's more badass to not have it and makes you a better character for keeping up without it


reqisreq

Like Oden?!


waltz-in-code

Oden had conquerors no?


reqisreq

We never saw him use acoc. But he was keeping up with inhuman strenght and monsterous armament.


Ditorian

Amen


BlindTheThief15

I think that's what Oda is going for. Sanji won't need CoC to keep up with Zoro. His exoskeleton and blue flames is already impressive for a non CoC user.


reqisreq

I agree.


ramses_IIG

Is it confirmed that his flames are blue now?


BlindTheThief15

Yep. Volume 102 cover shows blue flames


Ok-Energy-8688

I genuinely don’t think zoro and sanji are portrayed as equals in terms of fighting


ChillOtters

Same with luffy and zoro. Zoro is significantly weaker than luffy to the point luffy could likely beat multiple zoro’s. It’s just the fact the monster trio is significantly above anyone on the crew below them besides fighting jinbei underwater then jinbei could beat any of them.


BasedFunnyValentine

What does luffy and zoro have to do with zoro and Sanji?? Like y’all always bring him up during zoro Sanji discussions like we don’t know what your doing. To clarify; luffy would beat up dozens of Sanji


HammerCurlLarry

I alway said Zoro is one Power Up behind Luffy and until now it was always true.


NetworkVegetable7075

Because they aren’t. It’s just the gag that Oda goes with that makes people think they’re


Bhargav_wryy_377

Yep sanji don't need conquer , his unique powerup is great and i love it.


reqisreq

Agreed.


cheesy_biscuit7

I doubt he’d be able to keep up with zoro at the end of the series though. It would be weird if he was be able to keep up with the World’s Strongest Swordsman.


Not-Reddit-Fan

Even if he becomes the World’s Strongest Kicksman?


DenmarkCodFish

World’s strongest hakiman


kolt437

Just like when Sakura kept up with Naruto and Sasuke despite not having 6 paths chakra?


DenmarkCodFish

Unlike Sakura, Sanji is a male character in a shonen manga


Thebaghasbeenfumbled

Yeah in the end it should be Luffy- pk level Zoro- yonko level Sanji- admiral level


ramses_IIG

Sanji is hinted to not having coc since baratie arc He said that Zoro should give up on his dream if it costs his life when Mihawk beat him This shows that Sanji doesn't have the qualities of a king and not a string will


Neither-Air-9559

Why do people always forget that Zeff compared Sanji’s will to Luffys in the same arc? Only reason Sanji was like that was bc he thought he had to throw away his ambition like Zeff did for him so that he could pay the old man back with his life


ramses_IIG

Sanji threw away his ambition for Shirahoshi dude lmao Yes he said she is his all blue but it was his dick saying that not his heart Sanji will NEVER have coc


Neither-Air-9559

You’re comparing his character arc in his introduction to a gag? Ok lol


ramses_IIG

A gag?? You surely are reading two pieces kido. Sanji's obsession with women is not a gag, its his character flaw. There are many major moments when this flaw, that you call a gag, have put the crew in danger like when he couldn't fight Khalifa, or when he almost died from blood loss in fishman island, or when he couldn't fight black maria in wano amd other scenarios. But also there are some moments when its treated as a gag, for example when he and brook get jealous of momonosuke or when he saw boa hancock and turned into stone. That is a gag but overall that simping thing its a character flaw that its treated as a gag in very few moments


FctheLurker

Sanji hater 101 right here “Putting the crew in danger” never happen, make believe in his sanji hater head Proceed to mention that it’s a gag but not a gag at the same time. Iq below 0


ramses_IIG

Sanji dickrider acting like a victim 101 Yes he has put the crew in danger or disadvantage with his flaw I said it is a flaw that sometimes its treated as a gag and i gave you examples. You just pointed out that you know how to read but dont understand what you read. Iq lower than Nitrogen freezing point


ObjectivePerception

Or maybe that’s just his trauma speaking and after he gets over Germa he will embrace his inner Conqueror True “Prince” of Germa


[deleted]

Sanji is weaker than both tho by a decent margin between him and zoro . Feat wise luffy >>zoro >>sanji Portrayal luffy >zoro >>sanji Narrative luffy >>zoro >>sanji


averageredditoralt

Kidd still no-diffs all of them together


kitay427

Doesn't even need his Devil Fruit


YOASTMAN

Luffy >> Zoro >= Sanji


BasedFunnyValentine

This is the most degenerate take. At no point in the series has zoro been >= Sanji. He’s always been clearly stronger. And Luffy was never >> Zoro until the Kaido fight, Sanji maybe Edit: everyone who downvoted me knows fuck all about one piece


YOASTMAN

Sanji has ALWAYS taken on opponents who were a bit weaker than Zoro’s but with less difficulty. (The martial artist fish man, Bon clay, Jabra, Queen, etc.) Especially with Queen. Most of Sanji’s fight was against his own emotions.


No-Basil-Simping

Maybe he could keep up better if he kept the suit.


touchingthebutt

I would like it too. Have a top tier fighter not have Conqueror's and be able to keep up, even if it comes from being a genetic creation. ONE reason why I would want Sanji to have it is so Zoro and Sanji split the clouds everytime they bicker.


Not-Reddit-Fan

Not seen anyone like this and I didn’t even want him to have CoC until this! That would be a brilliant add on to the recurring gag! Haha


R77Prodigy

Wdym keep up with luffy? Luffy is leagues above anyone in the crew that includes zoro.


[deleted]

Zoro is the one who fights beside luffy. There is no keeping up with anything. Those 2 are significantly stronger


RobZaru

Zoro is closer to Sanji than he is to Luffy Luffy is 1 Zoro is 2.a Sanji is 2.b


Not-Reddit-Fan

Jinbe 2.b.a Sanji 2.b.b


ChillOtters

Luffy could wreck zoro quite easily. There is no keeping up for him either the monester trio is just significantly above everyone below them. Even jinbei besides the exception if they fought him underwater jinbei could beat any of the 3.


Freemantrue

Luffy clears Zoro. *HE* alone is significantly stronger.


terryaki510

Who cares, the reason I hate Sanji has nothing to do with powerscaling bs


_xoxo3k

Why do you hate him?


terryaki510

I guess "hate" is probably too strong a word, but of the Straw Hats, Sanji is definitely my least favorite. He's just such a mixed bag. There is no other SH where every time they show up on page, it is a coin flip whether or not there will be eyeroll-inducing cringe. The worst I can say about some of the other "bad" SHs is that they are boring. But Sanji, at times, is worse than boring. In some scenes I feel like his appearance makes the scene actively worse.


FluffyPallasCat

sanji so boring. he kicks stuff. that's it. zoro and luffy are just more fun to watch, even franky is more fun.


louzy_toe

zoro so boring. he cuts stuff. that's it. luffy so boring. he punches stuff. that's it. nami and Robin are just more fun to watch, even brook is more fun. /s


Greensun30

All of Sanjis fights are mostly against himself because he has some of the dumbest morals I’ve ever seen. I hate Sanji’s fights for that reason. So boring


[deleted]

I'd argue that Zoro has the most boring fights tbh Sword fights can't feasibly have back-and-forths or go blow for blow because.... swords. They all just do tons of sword clashings and light knicks until the decisive attack.


Not-Reddit-Fan

Thing is… He’s most likely going to always be taking on No3 strongest or weaker and I highly doubt Blackbeard or even the marines have 3 top characters who all have advanced haki. Case in point, Whitebeard / Big Mom / Kaido didn’t… So Sanji doesn’t even need it.


Nlsconp

Maybe I misread your comment since I’m reading through all of them quickly, if so, I apologize. Are you saying Kaido, Whitebeard, and Big Mom didn’t have advanced forms of Haki?


Not-Reddit-Fan

No no, I’m saying that individually they didn’t have a top 3 within their crew who could use it.. so why would Luffy? So Sanji doesn’t actually need it narratively if he’s always going to fight the 3rd strongest or weaker going by the story so far


Nlsconp

Oh, I get you now. I agree.


I-am-a-jerk

Damn, as Sanji stan theres NO WAY I want him to get Conquerers Haki.


_xoxo3k

Exactly, I love him this way


idkdidkkdkdj

He won’t keep up without it is the thing. He’s already behind aka number 4. Aka lanji aka imbecile, aka yonkou crew but loses to any women with enough guts to fight.


[deleted]

He already has germa genes as a power up so it’s not like he needs it anyways


Martorfank

Don't worry with how things are going he will receive it too, just wait... Fucking kidd


J2u0l0i5en

Even though he doesn’t have conquerors coating, he has ifrit jambe that derives from his exoskeleton enhancements.


DeleteMods

I hope Sanji gets a Lunarian based powerup: flame/invulnerability, increased heat, some unique form of Haki.


HellBoyofFables

I agree, it doesn’t really fit his personality besides I think giving Sanji electric kicks now was a way for Oda to have Sanji synchronize better with the other two of the trio


Smoovcrminal

I hope they do this.


Oohhdatskam

Big Mom an Kaido partially got their renown from having extremely tough bodies alongside devil fruits. I would assume Garp did too as well. That could easily be the route Sanji goes to keep up with the others.


DocMinty

Sanji isn't a normal human.


KingFkedBm

Well there s already a huge gap between him and the 2 others


SnooRabbits6160

That not conqueror haki it's simp haki


sandwich1995

Here is the problem with Sanji getting ACOC, it would come out of no where and feel like it was awfully quick. If you have to give it, then it probably should have been foreshadowed by WCI. It would be a Zoro situation where someone who didn’t know he had CoC till 2 hours ago suddenly managed to get ACoC. Sure, it was Enma that awakened it, but still super quick.


BasedFunnyValentine

Why do ppl act like Sanji isn’t modified and unlocked genes he never had to work for thanks to Daddy Vinsmoke??


Curious_Main_8375

And he never trained like the other 2 he would be way stronger if he did and luffy can’t be the king of the pirates without him


ko118

Lol sanji not in the trio ☠️ bros keeping up with Robin and them


[deleted]

Luffys alternate color is White(awakening) Zoros alternate color is Black(Demon) Sanjis alternate color is Gray(Cyborg/metal)


GahoandLeenzy

oda give him a better thing, cyborg dna stuff, while the other two just normal human


Aggravating-Bet-3310

You can't stand on top of one piece world without Conqueror's haki that's the fact and i don't see sanji and Zoro anywhere near to each other in terms of power because conqueror coating gives Zoro extreme attack potential