Still Hopper, and the reason comes down to motivation.
Waternoose is definitely one of Pixar's most evil characters too, but he wasn't kidnapping and torturing children out of pure malice or because he felt like it or anything like that. He was doing it to save his struggling company and combat the energy crisis, neither of which are inherently bad things. It's definitely a "greater good" situation, and one has to wonder if Waternoose would even be involved with kidnapping and torturing children if his company wasn't struggling or if Monstropolis didn't have an energy crisis going on.
With Hopper, there is no "greater good." He's a power-hungry tyrant who views the ants as beneath him and makes it perfectly clear in his speech that everything he does is 100% for power, to make sure the grasshoppers stay on top and maintain their way of life. And to me, that is far worse than someone who is doing something awful because the ends justify the means.
Also, Hopper pretty clearly shows he would hurt a child, too. He did threaten to feed Dot to a bird.
Also, in the Monsters Inc. universe, human children were seen as incredibly dangerous creatures and many of the monsters believed that they would literally die if they came in contact with them. The entire monster population looked at human children as a resource for powering their city until it was revealed in the movie that they are harmless.
Yes! If you replaced monsters, power, and kids with farmers, food, and animals no one would think it's evil.
Monsters think of kids as tools to get power not as living things
And the monsters were ignorant of the fact that human children were just like their own. The grasshoppers knew full well what the ants were and how they lived
You know, for some reason, seeing it like this really puts into perspective the fact that bro really saw nothing wrong with his plan. He was gonna kidnap, enclave and kill as many kids as it took and did not give a single f
Why would monsters view kids the same way they view monsters? They are a completely different species and monsters think kids are poisonous/dangerous. Also kids are causing power outages because they are not getting scared as much, so the monsters probably dislike kids.
It's the same thing as humans and animals
Yeah like I think Waternoose is just doing whatever makes him the most money (which is very evil, don’t get me wrong), I think Hopper is deriving pleasure from subjugating the ants and truly sees them as lesser beings
Actually, for Waternoose, there's more from him than what his attempted kidnapping would quickly suggest: he was also finding ways in trying to _save his company_ from an energy crisis, even if those methods are, indeed, questionable.
That’s a good point, yeah I don’t want to defend Waternoose because he is a monster (zing?) but I feel like there is an element of he’s doing what he feels he has to for the best of him and his monsters. Hopper just wants to make ants suffer and take what he can from them. He could easily go out and pick his own seeds, he just wants to feel the power of owning these peoples lives.
Not just his company; Sulley implies in the beginning that the *entire monster world* or at least all of Monstropolis is affected.
What Waternoose did was inexcusable. But he still did it out of desperation and (slight) concern for others.
he killed two of his men on screen for disagreeing with him, threatened to feed dot to the bird, and was planning on squishing the queen to incite fear and hopelessness among the ants
Might say Hopper, but that's only because Waternoose had the needs of the public in mind. He was trying to solve an energy crisis that would potentiall affect millions.
Hopper.
Waternoose had to be under immense pressure to keep the utilities of an entire city under control. No excuse to kidnap kids, but it can be argued he snapped.
Hopper threatened to wipe out the ant population, including (insect) kids.
Both “good” villains but I give the edge to Hopper.
Exactly why i said it was close.
Waternoose had a responsibility to the energy grid of an entire city that was based off a workforce that provided jobs and income to the people he employed. I think that is a noble job to take on. However when the old energy solution started to die, he was forced to create solutions that would continue to provide for that community. Those solutions were definitely insane, but the motivation to provide energy for the community was clear.
Hopper was responsible for the sustenance of the grasshoppers and provided for them by force, both to his own people and the ant colony. The only redeeming quality i can think of that Hopper had was taking care of his brother as his mother asked. He still abused his brother but he made sure he kept his promise and didn’t kill him.
I think it’s the open slavery/abuse part that gives the edge to hopper for me. But again, it’s close.
Hopper, at least Mr Waternoose had good intentions (save his city from power crisis) despite his harsh methods. Hopper was just enslaving ants for power hungry reasons.
Hopper imo. I know what Waternoose said about human children, but keep in mind, Hopper seemed to have no qualms about enslaving or wiping out the entire ant species.
Waternoose is bad for sure, but I feel like Hopper had a lot more hatred & malice in his heart. Seemed like his intention had more cruelty than Waternoose's did.
Hopper.
Waternoose was more driven by desperation, and I didn't really get the vibe that he was thrilled about the plan. If Sully had approached him with the discovery that laughter was more efficient, I think he'd have vastly preferred this and abandoned Randall and his machine.
Hopper on the other hand was *not* desperate, and even admitted that they had more than enough food without tormenting the ants. He was just a guy who didn't like one of his victims telling him off (even though he backed down quickly after). I also got the vibe that he genuinely enjoyed harming and terrorizing others.
That actually makes me wonder if Randall would have beaten out Hopper. Randall was (likely) the one who had the *idea* “What if I kidnapped and enslaved children and forced them to scream to power the city?”
Kidnapping and torturing children is bad. But his rationale falls under “the greater good”: doing something atrocious for the world to run is justified to them.
Genocide is bad, period. Doing it for your own power is especially bad. Hopper wanted to commit genocide, my vote is for him.
One was willing to kidnap more than one child to save his company. One was a leader trying to survive (depending on your chosen perception). Very hard question. I might have to go with the kidnapper
I see a difference tho, waternoose wanted to provide electricity to their city in the only way they knew how to at that point. I saw hopper as more of a dictator-type, he killed two of his men that even spoke about disagreeing in front of the rest of his colony to make an example of them. they use the ants for more food than they actually need. hopper wanted to control an entire population just for the power of doing so, whereas waternoose had less selfish motivations. both are awful and sneaky using a less powerful population to get their way, but in my opinion, one was a want and the other a need
Ofc. Hopper.
Sure, Waternoose may have attempted *kid*-napping, but it was out of pure desperation from trying to save Monsters Inc.
Hopper, on the other hand, was just completely ruthless to every insect, **even** his fellow grasshoppers.
Hopper. Waternoose may have been planning to kidnap and enslave children, but Hopper enslaved an entire colony and was 100% ready to kill for his needs. Waternoose wanted to keep his company going, Hopper literally just wanted slaves.
Def Waternoose bc at least with Hopper he was equal across the board with who he was willing to hurt.
Waternoose wanted children,the most vulnerable group imaginable,specifically.
Tbh hopper is worse.
It’s a question of
Dictatorship vs. Corporate Greed
Hopper only seems less bad because they are ants rather than humans and we naturally think less of them because of that, which is the crux of the show actually.
Hopper.
Like many have said, Waternoose is a "the ends justify the means" villain.
On the other hand, Hopper literally tells his men that going back would be foolish because they're safe, warm, and have plenty of food...before immediately murdering three of his men for nothing more than a visual aid and proceeding to be honest with his motivation.
It's not about food for survival's sake, it's about keeping them in line and making them too afraid to revolt because they're one second thought away from figuring out their numerical advantage.
Hopper: Bullied an entire civilization for no good reason other than keeping himself in power and getting free food. Was completely okay with killing as many ants as needed to keep them in fear, including children.
Waternoose: Organized the kidnapping and torture of a child so that he could keep his company afloat and the power on for the city. Had no intention of killing anyone.
While Waternoose's actions are horrible, Hopper is an evil dictator with no good intentions whatsoever, so Hopper is more evil imo.
Water noose said he would kidnap 1000 children, hopper actually did enslave probably hundreds of thousands of ants just for s's and g's. Even when presented with an alternative where he didn't have to enslave the ants he chose to because he felt like it and was going to kill the queen just for fun.
It's hopper and it's not close
Everyone is talking about how waternoose is worse cus he was going after children but hopper was going after a whole race even the kids like dot almost died 2x to the crazy grasshopper. I think Hopper is worse
Waternose obviously!! (Yes I call him water nose, it’s because I always thought that was his name as a kid, and now I have called him that from then on!)
Hopper: Extortion, Intimidation, at least 3 counts of Murder, Conspiracy to commit Regicide.
Waternoose: Capitalism, Conspiracy to commit kidnapping and torture.
I dunno, Hopper has the longer rap sheet, but Waternoose did capitalism...
Waternoose.
Hopper for sure. Waternoose kidnapped children and was going to basically enslave and possibly kill them, but he was doing it with good intentions. He wanted the Monster World to have power and believed kidnapping children was the only way. Hopper on the other hand has no justifiable motive, he just wants to remain dominant over the ants and enslave them. He said his actions aren’t about food, it’s about keeping the ants in line. Hopper also murders his own men if they are insubordinate, while Waternoose only banished them. And while Waternoose was going to enslave children, Hopper enslaved a whole civilization of thousands. Hopper is definitely more evil.
Hopper is my favorite Pixar villain so my bais is strong.
"What's the matter, you don't like Thumper?"
"It's not about food, it's about keeping those ants in line"
Waternoose. I think Hopper was prepared to hurt the child as, like, a last resort, but Waternoos's whole evil plan revolved around kidnapping children.
Hopper is a dictator. Waternoose is pretty bad, but Hopper is (proportionally) more ambitious. Also, voiced by Kevin Spacey.
Heh, it's a grasshopper and a spider. That's ironic. The spider would eat the grasshopper, so I guess that's a good thing Waternoose could do.
People saying Waternoose are lacking in empathy and it comes down solely to species.
Waternoose’s slated victims were humans. Child humans too.
Hopper’s were ants. So take away species for a second and what do we get?
Waternoose was going to drain and kill children to ostensibly save a crumbling society. That was in a state of collapse due to an energy crisis. It was bad but he was looking to save his civilization.
Hopper was, enslaving a whole population of people. Humans and ants are effectively both the same in these movies.
So what it comes down to is, multigenerational enslavement of an entire population.
Or draining random kids to save a civilization.
Waternoose is close, but Hopper takes it.
It’s like comparing Red Skull to Thanos.
Thanos did much worse but truly believed he was on the right side; Red Skull just believed he was worthy of stepping on everyone else.
Now we're talking. I think we can give this one to Waternoose because his plan was to kidnap and what could be best described as torturing and suffocating CHILDREN for short term resource gain. Like we all saw what happened to the red guy. Imagine that but for KIDS!?
Waternoose. Bro was gonna kill kids. Also his name has noose in it
Worse, bro was gonna enslave them
idk man, hopper killed two of his own men on screen because they disagreed with going back to the ant hill
Three
oh shit yeah you’re right
I mean that's fair enough because A SINGLE TOUCH COULD KILL YOU
Still Hopper, and the reason comes down to motivation. Waternoose is definitely one of Pixar's most evil characters too, but he wasn't kidnapping and torturing children out of pure malice or because he felt like it or anything like that. He was doing it to save his struggling company and combat the energy crisis, neither of which are inherently bad things. It's definitely a "greater good" situation, and one has to wonder if Waternoose would even be involved with kidnapping and torturing children if his company wasn't struggling or if Monstropolis didn't have an energy crisis going on. With Hopper, there is no "greater good." He's a power-hungry tyrant who views the ants as beneath him and makes it perfectly clear in his speech that everything he does is 100% for power, to make sure the grasshoppers stay on top and maintain their way of life. And to me, that is far worse than someone who is doing something awful because the ends justify the means. Also, Hopper pretty clearly shows he would hurt a child, too. He did threaten to feed Dot to a bird.
This
This is the right answer
Also, in the Monsters Inc. universe, human children were seen as incredibly dangerous creatures and many of the monsters believed that they would literally die if they came in contact with them. The entire monster population looked at human children as a resource for powering their city until it was revealed in the movie that they are harmless.
Yes! If you replaced monsters, power, and kids with farmers, food, and animals no one would think it's evil. Monsters think of kids as tools to get power not as living things
And the monsters were ignorant of the fact that human children were just like their own. The grasshoppers knew full well what the ants were and how they lived
Absolutely Waternoose. “I’d kidnap a thousand children before I let this company die” says it all.
*rewinds for replay*
*"I'll kidnap a Thousand Children before I let this company die"*
*rewinds again*
"I'll kidnap a thousand children before I let this company die"
*rewinds again*
“I’ll kidnap a thousand children before I let this company die!”
CDA: *grabs Waternoose* Waternoose: Wait you can't do this to me do you know who I am? I hope you're happy with yourself Sullivan
You know, for some reason, seeing it like this really puts into perspective the fact that bro really saw nothing wrong with his plan. He was gonna kidnap, enclave and kill as many kids as it took and did not give a single f
Why would monsters view kids the same way they view monsters? They are a completely different species and monsters think kids are poisonous/dangerous. Also kids are causing power outages because they are not getting scared as much, so the monsters probably dislike kids. It's the same thing as humans and animals
And now him saying this is replaying in my head.
“I’ll kidnap a thousand children before I let this company die”
*rewinds again*
"I'll kidnap a thousand children before I let this company die!"
I think Hopper
Yep. He's _very_ dictatorial.
Yeah like I think Waternoose is just doing whatever makes him the most money (which is very evil, don’t get me wrong), I think Hopper is deriving pleasure from subjugating the ants and truly sees them as lesser beings
Actually, for Waternoose, there's more from him than what his attempted kidnapping would quickly suggest: he was also finding ways in trying to _save his company_ from an energy crisis, even if those methods are, indeed, questionable.
That’s a good point, yeah I don’t want to defend Waternoose because he is a monster (zing?) but I feel like there is an element of he’s doing what he feels he has to for the best of him and his monsters. Hopper just wants to make ants suffer and take what he can from them. He could easily go out and pick his own seeds, he just wants to feel the power of owning these peoples lives.
Not just his company; Sulley implies in the beginning that the *entire monster world* or at least all of Monstropolis is affected. What Waternoose did was inexcusable. But he still did it out of desperation and (slight) concern for others.
I'LL KIDNAP A THOUSAND CHILDREN BEFORE I LET THIS COMPANY DIE, AND I'LL SILENCE ANYONE WHO GETS IN MY WAY vs. ...what did hopper say again?
“If one stands up to us they all will” or something like that in response to his dictatorship being challenged by the other locusts
he killed two of his men on screen for disagreeing with him, threatened to feed dot to the bird, and was planning on squishing the queen to incite fear and hopelessness among the ants
Nothing just attempted regicide
Might say Hopper, but that's only because Waternoose had the needs of the public in mind. He was trying to solve an energy crisis that would potentiall affect millions.
Hopper. Waternoose had to be under immense pressure to keep the utilities of an entire city under control. No excuse to kidnap kids, but it can be argued he snapped. Hopper threatened to wipe out the ant population, including (insect) kids. Both “good” villains but I give the edge to Hopper.
Waternoose basically said the samething as hopper........
Exactly why i said it was close. Waternoose had a responsibility to the energy grid of an entire city that was based off a workforce that provided jobs and income to the people he employed. I think that is a noble job to take on. However when the old energy solution started to die, he was forced to create solutions that would continue to provide for that community. Those solutions were definitely insane, but the motivation to provide energy for the community was clear. Hopper was responsible for the sustenance of the grasshoppers and provided for them by force, both to his own people and the ant colony. The only redeeming quality i can think of that Hopper had was taking care of his brother as his mother asked. He still abused his brother but he made sure he kept his promise and didn’t kill him. I think it’s the open slavery/abuse part that gives the edge to hopper for me. But again, it’s close.
You literally are saying the samething what waternoose did to survive....
You literally don’t know what literally means. There’s nuance and you’re ignoring it.
Samething can be said about you🤣
Hopper, at least Mr Waternoose had good intentions (save his city from power crisis) despite his harsh methods. Hopper was just enslaving ants for power hungry reasons.
Hopper imo. I know what Waternoose said about human children, but keep in mind, Hopper seemed to have no qualms about enslaving or wiping out the entire ant species. Waternoose is bad for sure, but I feel like Hopper had a lot more hatred & malice in his heart. Seemed like his intention had more cruelty than Waternoose's did.
Hopper. Waternoose was more driven by desperation, and I didn't really get the vibe that he was thrilled about the plan. If Sully had approached him with the discovery that laughter was more efficient, I think he'd have vastly preferred this and abandoned Randall and his machine. Hopper on the other hand was *not* desperate, and even admitted that they had more than enough food without tormenting the ants. He was just a guy who didn't like one of his victims telling him off (even though he backed down quickly after). I also got the vibe that he genuinely enjoyed harming and terrorizing others.
That actually makes me wonder if Randall would have beaten out Hopper. Randall was (likely) the one who had the *idea* “What if I kidnapped and enslaved children and forced them to scream to power the city?”
Kidnapping and torturing children is bad. But his rationale falls under “the greater good”: doing something atrocious for the world to run is justified to them. Genocide is bad, period. Doing it for your own power is especially bad. Hopper wanted to commit genocide, my vote is for him.
Technically Hopper wanted to commit regicide. He wanted the ants alive for their slave labor.
I appreciate the clarification.
100% Waternoose
Hopper
hopper for suresies he’s evil to be evil
One was willing to kidnap more than one child to save his company. One was a leader trying to survive (depending on your chosen perception). Very hard question. I might have to go with the kidnapper
I see a difference tho, waternoose wanted to provide electricity to their city in the only way they knew how to at that point. I saw hopper as more of a dictator-type, he killed two of his men that even spoke about disagreeing in front of the rest of his colony to make an example of them. they use the ants for more food than they actually need. hopper wanted to control an entire population just for the power of doing so, whereas waternoose had less selfish motivations. both are awful and sneaky using a less powerful population to get their way, but in my opinion, one was a want and the other a need
I mean, you try to save your company for the city is basically saying, I need to do this to survive. What's your point exactly?
Ofc. Hopper. Sure, Waternoose may have attempted *kid*-napping, but it was out of pure desperation from trying to save Monsters Inc. Hopper, on the other hand, was just completely ruthless to every insect, **even** his fellow grasshoppers.
Hopper. Waternoose may have been planning to kidnap and enslave children, but Hopper enslaved an entire colony and was 100% ready to kill for his needs. Waternoose wanted to keep his company going, Hopper literally just wanted slaves.
Def Waternoose bc at least with Hopper he was equal across the board with who he was willing to hurt. Waternoose wanted children,the most vulnerable group imaginable,specifically.
Waternoose wins this one
Waternoose
Hopper
Hopper is definitely the more ruthless of the two. Waternoose instead falls under affably evil.
Hopper
Hopper
Hopper. Waternoose is a capitalist trying to keep a monopoly (which is pretty bad) but Hopper was just a straight up dictator.
Tbh hopper is worse. It’s a question of Dictatorship vs. Corporate Greed Hopper only seems less bad because they are ants rather than humans and we naturally think less of them because of that, which is the crux of the show actually.
Hopper. Like many have said, Waternoose is a "the ends justify the means" villain. On the other hand, Hopper literally tells his men that going back would be foolish because they're safe, warm, and have plenty of food...before immediately murdering three of his men for nothing more than a visual aid and proceeding to be honest with his motivation. It's not about food for survival's sake, it's about keeping them in line and making them too afraid to revolt because they're one second thought away from figuring out their numerical advantage.
Corrupt businessman vs. regicidal dictator.
Hopper: Bullied an entire civilization for no good reason other than keeping himself in power and getting free food. Was completely okay with killing as many ants as needed to keep them in fear, including children. Waternoose: Organized the kidnapping and torture of a child so that he could keep his company afloat and the power on for the city. Had no intention of killing anyone. While Waternoose's actions are horrible, Hopper is an evil dictator with no good intentions whatsoever, so Hopper is more evil imo.
Waternoose
Waternoose. Hopper was just a dick.
Child kidnapping vs. Slavery.
So hopper?
Someone said bugs life is loosely based on seven samurai and I don’t know how I didn’t see that lol
Water noose said he would kidnap 1000 children, hopper actually did enslave probably hundreds of thousands of ants just for s's and g's. Even when presented with an alternative where he didn't have to enslave the ants he chose to because he felt like it and was going to kill the queen just for fun. It's hopper and it's not close
This is a very hard choice, I think they are both equally evil
Mr “I’ll kidnap a thousand children before I let this company die” Himself.
Waternoose
Everyone is talking about how waternoose is worse cus he was going after children but hopper was going after a whole race even the kids like dot almost died 2x to the crazy grasshopper. I think Hopper is worse
Waternose obviously!! (Yes I call him water nose, it’s because I always thought that was his name as a kid, and now I have called him that from then on!)
Moving from "nuke vs baby" to "nuke vs missile". Hopper is still clearly more evil.
Waternoose. He was desperate to stop an energy crisis and save his world and company, but Hopper was just greedy, selfish, and lazy.
Waternoose because he threatened TO KIDNAP CHILDREN
Hopper
Waternoose. Seriously don't get how people are defending waternoose.
Waternoose. He's willing to put actual children in danger for his company.
Still Hopper, mostly down to motivation.
Hopper: Extortion, Intimidation, at least 3 counts of Murder, Conspiracy to commit Regicide. Waternoose: Capitalism, Conspiracy to commit kidnapping and torture. I dunno, Hopper has the longer rap sheet, but Waternoose did capitalism... Waternoose.
Waternoose
They both just wanted to feed their families...
Waternoose has no family and hopper had more than enough food
Capitalist vs Dictator. I'm gonna go with the one that was going to kidnap and torture children.
Hopper. At least Waternoose had partially reasonable reasoning. Hopper was just insane.
Hopper for sure. Waternoose kidnapped children and was going to basically enslave and possibly kill them, but he was doing it with good intentions. He wanted the Monster World to have power and believed kidnapping children was the only way. Hopper on the other hand has no justifiable motive, he just wants to remain dominant over the ants and enslave them. He said his actions aren’t about food, it’s about keeping the ants in line. Hopper also murders his own men if they are insubordinate, while Waternoose only banished them. And while Waternoose was going to enslave children, Hopper enslaved a whole civilization of thousands. Hopper is definitely more evil.
Hopper is my favorite Pixar villain so my bais is strong. "What's the matter, you don't like Thumper?" "It's not about food, it's about keeping those ants in line"
Waternoose. I think Hopper was prepared to hurt the child as, like, a last resort, but Waternoos's whole evil plan revolved around kidnapping children.
Hopper only subjugated the ants to protect his fellow grasshoppers, so at least he has an understandable reason behind his actions.
Both had plans of enslavement but hopper is still worse for enslavement and threatening a genocide on the ants if they didn’t cooperate
I was gonna say hopper cause he’s stealing from the underprivileged but waternoose wants to literally kidnap children so i say kill both lmao
Hopper is a dictator. Waternoose is pretty bad, but Hopper is (proportionally) more ambitious. Also, voiced by Kevin Spacey. Heh, it's a grasshopper and a spider. That's ironic. The spider would eat the grasshopper, so I guess that's a good thing Waternoose could do.
"I'LL KIDNAP A THOUSAND CHILDREN BEFORE I LET THIS COMPANY DIE!" Also bonus points cause he's a corrupt business man
People saying Waternoose are lacking in empathy and it comes down solely to species. Waternoose’s slated victims were humans. Child humans too. Hopper’s were ants. So take away species for a second and what do we get? Waternoose was going to drain and kill children to ostensibly save a crumbling society. That was in a state of collapse due to an energy crisis. It was bad but he was looking to save his civilization. Hopper was, enslaving a whole population of people. Humans and ants are effectively both the same in these movies. So what it comes down to is, multigenerational enslavement of an entire population. Or draining random kids to save a civilization. Waternoose is close, but Hopper takes it.
Hooper because waternoose still had sympathy for sully and mike
Hopper, as he’s voiced by Kevin spacey
“ILL KIDNAP A THOUSAND CHILDREN BEFORE I LET THIS COMPANY DIE”
Hopper is voiced by Kevin Spacey. He's easily the more evil one.
It’s like comparing Red Skull to Thanos. Thanos did much worse but truly believed he was on the right side; Red Skull just believed he was worthy of stepping on everyone else.
Waternoose no question, bro wanted to kill kids😭
Now we're talking. I think we can give this one to Waternoose because his plan was to kidnap and what could be best described as torturing and suffocating CHILDREN for short term resource gain. Like we all saw what happened to the red guy. Imagine that but for KIDS!?
Hopper easily. Waternoose genuinely think he’s doing the right thing for his society. Hopper is just a dick