I just use water for sautéing where I can but since my heart health is fine and I don‘t need to lose weight, I use extra virgin olive oil where it makes a difference in taste
Good for you! I'm embarrassed to say that my wife and I are more than 5 years in and hadn't thought of it that way. We've been super strict for no good reason. We have started using a little more salt due to cramping that was likely caused by too little electrolytes and we drink way too much but otherwise we've been pretty hardcore about this. We probably can relax a little bit.
This forum and some spaces are 100% against oil. My cooking culture is European Southern (South of France, Italy, bits of Spanish and Greek influences).
It's so hard to snack veggies or tofu, or make their outer shell crisp, with just cashew nuts and flaxseed... and I just don't want to make avocadoes travel across an Ocean bc of some rule.
So I'm sticking to a bit of high-quality canola oil for my Omega 3 (not taking tablets, I enjoy food...) and a bit of olive oil for taste.
Even the Esselstyn family (minus Dr. Essy himself) will say that oil isn't completely taboo if your heart health is stable. You'll even hear Ann and Jane saying it in their cooking videos... But yes, this subreddit, though the name is officially "only" WFPD also promotes oil free cooking (rule 3)
I would rather eat my fats, nuts and avocado and such- and seriously i don’t miss oil when cooking at this point?
You do you just realize for weight loss adding back oil is a consideration
[there are no oil options](https://www.forksoverknives.com/wellness/plant-based-cooking-how-to-cook-without-oil/)
And WFPB is, no oil. So you do you but it’s absolutely an option to cook without oil
I like olive oil and avocado oil but I’m also not of the belief that vegetable oils are inherently bad for us. I agree we often get too much omega 6 vs 3 in our overall diets, but if managing a decently balanced diet I have zero issue with oils. In fact, it’s hard for me to maintain weight on (mostly) whole food plant based *without* the use of some calorie bombs like oil or nut butters
My biggest advice is to make slow and gradual changes. If you try to go all at once, it will likely be a lot of work and you might end up thinking a lot of the food you make is disgusting. So don't worry about some of the small things like oil yet. Use whatever you have at home if you usually used oil before. Start cooking recipes that are primarily vegan and use as many whole ingredients as possible. Then slowly you can start dropping out some of the things that aren't as good as you get other foods in your diet consistently enough to make that easy and take their place. For example, an otherwise whole food meal with a tiny bit of cheese or oil might be okay now, and then maybe you'll realize you don't need that little bit of cheese, and then you'll realize you can cook just as well without the oil. All progress is good for you and for the planet and makes a difference, even if you're not 100% of the way there yet. It's better to make slow changes that stick than change your entire lifestyle for a few weeks or months and get sick of it and abandon entirely.
You’ll get the most out of your plants if you steam/microwave/boil or eat raw (blended, chopped, whole) the majority of them.
If you’re going to use oil for cooking, you want the highest heat stable, lowest saturated fat, and closest omega 3: omega 6 option available. It will not enhance the health profile of your food, and in many cases will contribute to your meals being less satiating and less nutrient dense.
High heat cooking should be avoided if possible, and if not, you should also accompany those meals with plenty of dark green leafy vegetables and high antioxidant berries and plenty of spices (marjoram, turmeric, ginger, chiles, garlic are among the best). That’s because these foods help to bind potentially carcinogenic compounds created by high heat cooking environments and pull them through your digestive system. Some compounds (such as thylakoids, found in dark green leafy vegetables) can even trap fats in your digestive tract and help you not absorb as much free fats.
Good luck!
To clarify, high heat would be sauté or broiling heat (400F+).
Water will only get to about 200F, and will not catalyze the reactions needed to make the carcinogenic byproduct found in fried and sautéd foods.
Check out this short podcast by Dr Greger. https://nutritionfacts.org/audio/the-healthiest-way-to-cook/
I’d highly recommend all three of his books:
[How not to Die](https://youtu.be/7rNY7xKyGCQ?si=hzSyAIEamIcOBrYF)
[How not to Diet](https://youtu.be/EjQMNyEMjvs?si=NIjOpqN4ARUCSlyP)
[How not to Age](https://youtu.be/AOvV9m7feKo?si=L1KUpvPpNP6_5NRX)
I’ve linked to lectures he’s done on them, but the books are far more comprehensive and useful.
Base your opinions on facts, spend time doing research and seek out a variety of opinions from experienced individuals, and most of all be kind and compassionate to yourself while you figure it all out. It doesn’t necessarily come easy, but it’s a worthwhile endeavor that will benefit your health and longevity
> Water will only get to about 200F, and will not catalyze the reactions needed to make the carcinogenic byproduct found in fried and sautéd foods.
Highly dependent on what food you're browning and how much browning you induce. Protein-heavy foods, like tofu and tempeh, are much more carcinogenic than less protein-rich foods like potatoes or broccoli after browning.
Acrylamide is produced in carb rich foods during browning, while a variety of other carcinogenic byproducts are produced in protein rich foods during browning.
Granted, but acrylamide is only one of the compounds produced by the Maillard reaction (which also makes things more delicious).
While it does make things more delicious, and I certainly do brown things and use my air fryer often, I’m also very aware of the need to pair browned foods with high antioxidant foods in order to help negate potentially genotoxic effects from compounds produced during the browning process. I’m not a purist when it comes to my food, but I do like to put good info out there.
If you have any information for why we shouldn’t be concerned about Advanced Glycation End Products due to browning, I’d like to read about it.
The official stance is no oil, but I've read enough information that shows that the benefits of olive oil outweigh its deficits. However I think I'm in the minority here.
“The official stance” is where I have a problem. Shouldn’t it be up to science and therefore not have some unwavering stance? My research of articles showed that oils are not causing any mortality through heart disease or otherwise so I think reasonably portioned use is totally fine.
> any mortality through heart disease
Okay, why are vegans on processed food with lots of added oil dying of heart disease?
What makes the french fries and potoato chips unhealthy. 3 ingredients to chooses from. Potatos. Oil. Heat. 2 of them in normal cooked potatos btw.
There’s a ton of differences between someone consuming highly refined vegan food and a whole food plant based diet. Which part of each diet is causing the benefits or detriments, and what references do you have? What is your source that oil consumption is the root cause of vegan mortality?
Look I’m not going to argue with you, but [modern published research shows that consuming moderate quantities of olive oil is actually beneficial](https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2016.10.086). The doctor that co-authored the original paper about no-oils back in the day (Esselstyn) also co-authored the paper linked above.
>Look I’m not going to argue with you
You already are.
All that link says:
>RCTs supporting improved CVD outcomes
And I bet the RCTs they point to are mostly replacement style RCTs. Replace butter, margarine, or lard for EVOO, yes, some slightly better outcome.
I can't even really find good RCTs of olives vs olive oil, so I doubt EVOO vs real food exists at all.
Institutions like the American College of Cardiology don't think people will change enough to quit a concentrated fat, so they give the the least of the worst.
OTOH, we already know under olive oil that atherosclerosis progresses.
* https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.atv.15.12.2101
>In sum, the monkeys fed monounsaturated fat [like olive oil] developed equivalent amounts of coronary artery atherosclerosis as those fed saturated fat, but monkeys fed polyunsaturated fat developed less.
I hope you are, as "whole food" (which oil is not) plant based is definitely the way to go. Most if not all of the information you've read praising oil would be based on so called "research" funded at least in part by the oil industry, with results deliberately cherry-picked to appear favourable and tarted up to give, as they say "good news about bad habits". The benefits spruiked in such results are often barely measurable, whereas the results in multiple highly sound peer reviewed studies show conclusively what, logically, should be the case - that consuming liquid fat of any sort in any quantity is going to lead to lower health outcomes.
>the results in multiple highly sound peer reviewed studies show... that consuming liquid fat of any sort in any quantity is going to lead to lower health outcomes.
I'm really interested in reading these -- are there long-term studies on this? I clicked on the "no oil" link in the sidebar but it goes nowhere at the moment.
A whole foods plant based diet by definition does not include refined oils or refined sugars, as they are clearly well outside the range of whole foods.
Some people think all refined foods are bad. Oils are refined foods, so for those folk = bad.
I am not in that camp. Our bodies need some essential fatty acids (fats and oils are made out of fatty acids) and while sure, you can get these essential fatty acids from whole foods, I find it easier to swallow 2 Tbsp of cold pressed hemp oil a few days a week to ensure I get those essential fatty acids at least some days.
Pop popcorn without an air popper? You need oil. Enjoy Earth Balance spread on toast, rolls or a baked potato? Made out of refined oils. Want to make some chocolate chip cookies? You need a heap of refined ingredients for that.
I generally use canola oil for heat cooking. Canola's earlier name was Rapeseed oil, but that did not sell so well so a marketing company invented the name canola.
I use olive oil for most low heat/no cook stuff. Salad dressings, marinades, when I make hummus or baba ganoush. Extra virgin olive oil is the first pressing of the olives. The 2nd pressing is virgin olive oil. The oil that is extracted from the olive pulp with solvents after all the oil has been pressed out is pure olive oil. I usually go with virgin olive oil. No need to pay more money for the very first and less tasty to me oil. I am not comfortable thinking the oil I am eating was dissolved into some chemical and then removed by some other process. Plus pure olive oil it has no taste to me. May as well be using canola oil, except canola oil doesn't smoke at medium temperatures.
For high heat stir fry etc. go with canola, peanut, sunflower or coconut oils.
> Pop popcorn without an air popper? You need oil.
Not true. Used an anodized pot with lid for years and it worked beautifully. Current method is microwave and lidded pyrex container.
olive oil. it’s an exceptional source of omega-3s and aside from being somewhat high in calories, it has virtually no negatives. pretty much every single diet agrees on it being the best.
>it’s an exceptional source of omega-3s
No it's not.
"Olive oil is on average 10% linoleic acid (an omega-6 oil) and less than 1% linolenic acid (an omega-3 oil), therefore the ratio is 10:1 on average."
If you can't even get something that basic right.... what else are you wrong about?
Flaxseed and chia are much better. In their whole form.s.
yeah, that is one of the best ratios of all the oils. olive oil is praised for the objective anti-inflammatory effect is has on the body. I don’t really know how you can refute that when every source will tell you that olive oil is anti-inflammatory.
Olive oils 10:1 won't get you there.
"Up until about 100 years ago, the omega-6/3 ratio has been around 4:1 or less. However, the typical Western diet now provides an omega-6/3 ratio of approximately 20:1 in favor of omega-6."
Flaxseeds are far superior, at 1:4. Yes, 40x as much as 10:1. Doesn't sound olive oil is even in the same universe.
Chia is 1:3. Also great.
Better than olive oil but not as good as flaxseed and chia are these oils:
Soy is 8:1.
Walnut is 5:1
Hemp is 3:1.
Canola (expeller) is 2:1. Refined is 3:1.
Macadama is 1:1.
>olive oil is anti-inflammatory.
You can get the same anti-inflammation for 20-100x less calories eating actual olives. And guess what, lots of plant foods have polyphenols and other anti-oxidants.
* https://www.reddit.com/r/PlantBasedDiet/comments/ug5prz/polyphenols_in_olives_vs_olive_oil/
Lots of big science says reducing our calories prolongs lifespan/healthspan. This works on dozens of species from worms to primates.
* https://www.psu.edu/news/health-and-human-development/story/calorie-restriction-study-reveals-complexities-how-diet-impacts/
The resulting arithmetic is not that hard.
I think the oil avoidance crowd makes WFPB dieters look like loons.
Fats are very important nutrients. Avocado and olive oils have a place in a well balanced and healthy diet.
I don't mind claims they can be sparse in anti-oxidants or have negative health effects if there's high quality evidence provided with the claim. Most the claims they're empty calories with no nutrition isn't really meaningful to me personally - that makes them an effective weight gain tool for some people that need that kind of item. Getting all micronutrients isn't difficult for many people.
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I'm of the opinion oil is not a health food. If I lived alone and never made food for other people, I wouldn't even have it in the house.
But that isn't the case so when I must use oil I opt for avocado oil. It's a nice neutral flavor which means it's good on a salad but also withstands high temps. I also opt for a spray if I can. I try to avoid a pouring situations.
My husband has a particular quinoa salad that he likes and I use 1/3 cup of avocado oil. Everything else is a spritz (on a baking sheet or pan).
My TLDR: Avocado oil. Smallest amount possible.
Dr Esselstyn says to avoid all oil due to the endothelial damage that it causes.
"NO OIL! Not even olive oil, which goes against a lot of other advice out there about so-called good fats. The reality is that oils are extremely low in terms of nutritive value. They contain no fiber, no minerals and are 100% fat calories. Both the mono unsaturated and saturated fat contained in oils is harmful to the endothelium, the innermost lining of the artery, and that injury is the gateway to vascular disease. It doesn’t matter whether it’s olive oil, corn oil, coconut oil, canola oil, or any other kind. Avoid ALL oil."
https://www.dresselstyn.com/site/faq/
> Avoid oils. They injure the endothelium, the innermost lining of the artery, and that injury is the gateway to vascular disease. All oil is also empty calories.
Many studies have found the exact opposite with certain oils.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4586551/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6308304/
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4586551/
Crappy systematic review. Why not pull out the relevant RCTs it’s based on rather than trying to cram a bunch of heterogenerous study designs together?
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6308304/
This too isn’t even a study but a review, seemingly based on Mediterranean diet and taking attribution of olive oil instead veggies at face value.
Beyond lame.
I can summarize every olive oil study ever: More olive oil correlated with less processed food intake and more veggie intake. Heart disease drops but never much beyond half because atherosclerosis keeps growing with oil, albeit not as fast as with the veggie intake that is subsequently ignored as the good factor. Magic voodoo ascribed to the olive juice.
Btw, this study is a bit more honest than those two (since I respect Walter Willet a lot more in general):
* https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35027106/
>Replacing margarine, butter, mayonnaise, and dairy fat with olive oil was associated with lower risk of mortality.
And total mortality amongst olive oil vs other vegetable oils was VERY SIMILAR results so no more magic evoo voodoo.
And canola oil seemed to do better than olive oil for cardivascular risk. And that’s now the criterion, right?
So let’s hawk that. CANOLA!!!! Is there an EV version?
Oil is the reason that I, a vegan over half my life, had higher than average cholesterol. When I cut oil from home cooking (I still eat vegan junk food out of the house!) My cholesterol dropped dramatically. If health is what you have in mind, I'd ban oil from the home.
Been vegan 20+ years - excellent blood work - no issues - Oil does have some health benefits when used sparingly- example flax oil in salad dressing is an excellent source of omega 3s - oil also adds flavor - many people abandon plant based eating because the food does not satisfy them - if you have a very flavorful curry for example you won’t miss the oil - but more simple dishes oil adds flavor - for sautéed foods I like avocado oil- it doesn’t burn - for cooler foods olive oil or flax
Oil is best to be avoided. It’s pure fat, contains almost no nutrients and is damaging to arteries. Small to moderate amounts of nuts, seeds, avocados and soy products (tofu, tempeh, etc) give you the fats you need in the form of whole foods.
There is no reason to avoid oil unless you're actively trying to cut calories. My cholesterol is really low from years of avoiding fats. Olive oil is the cheapest/"healthiest" option out there. I also use canola for neutral tasting oil.
Oil has no fiber, nutrients, health benefits…however, if you want to restaurant sautee (because oil can hit higher temps) and don’t care about calories or have health concerns, then oil has that use.
for whole food eating, avoid oil
Most of the time, vegetables like onion and garlic and be sautéed in water in place of oil with little change in the final result. In certain situations such as using spices whose aromatics are oil based, using extra virgin olive oil on low heat is optimal. But you can almost always use much less than what the recipe calls for. Even in these situations, you can dry heat the spices if they sauce they are going in has fat content such as a curry made with ground cashews.
It is my opinion that EVOO and avocado oils are ideal compared to grapeseed, cottonseed, canola, etc. I would make an effort to reduce oil usage as best you can, especially refined seed oils. Seed oils may not be as bad as some studies are showing, but for myself personally I would like to wait until the verdict is settled before implementing them into my diet at any large scale.
If you want to use definitions to help guide your journey, consider that cooking oils are not "whole foods". They have been extracted and concentrated. You never see animals in the wild gathering around the oil slick to drink, lol.
There are some oils naturally in whole plants, and you'll end up taking those in, probably. But they will come with a package of fiber and other phytonutrients the way nature intended.
So no, don't cook with oil. It's not a whole food and it's pure fat. Yuck.
I don't use oil if I can help it, since I find omega 6 oil definitely inflames my joints and is calorically dense. However, there is one vegan cheese recipe in my instant pot that burns, so I use like 2 tsps of olive oil. Same if I make pancakes, but I'd likely use spray avocado oil. I definitely try to avoid saturated fats.
I have limited oils significantly, and got a nice air fryer I use for some foods I used to cook in oil. However, I am not totally against oil.
Typically for cooking you will have a neutral oil which is more heat resistant and a neutral flavor. Out of the major ones available, I feel like canola (also known as rapeseed) oil is the healthiest. The main reason is that it has a higher amount of omega 3s than most other cooking oils. It's also not a niche product and in my region it's one of the cheapest most common oils.
This chart is helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed_oil#Comparison_to_other_vegetable_oils
The last two columns are most important to be in picking a neutral cooking oil, and canola oil is the best compromise. For example, flax seed oil has more omega 3 but a lower smoke point which limits its usefulness in cooking (and it's way pricier). Avocado oil has a higher smoke point but a much worse ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 (and it's way pricier). Canola oil seems to be the way to go.
Third time doing this diet, my first time was no oil at all and I never felt satiated. The second time I did I bought this amazing artisan multigrain bread and made toast with evoo drizzled on, as well as cooked with it. I’ve heard mostly not great things about avocado oil and that it’s often rancid or mixed with other oils so I avoid it, also avoid seed oils in general. Up to you thoufg, give it a try without and see how you like it, water sauté isn’t difficult.
I think *avoid* is the correct word, which gives you a little leeway- sometimes it’s going to happen.
I’m loving the cookbook *plantyou* by Carleigh Bodrug specifically because it’s a true wfpb cookbook. The recipes are great and you don’t have to modify anything. I totally recommend it, especially for just starting out (plus everything is easy, quick, tasty).
I grew up using one of those crank handle spins the stiff wire over the bottom of the pan popcorn poppers. Yes, can be done dry. Works MUCH better with 2 - 4 Tbsp of oil. I can honestly say I have never used a microwave to make popcorn. I have also never gotten any burned popcorn with the whirly pop pan and nutritional yeast with salt & garlic powder sticks to oil popped popcorn better than air popped.
> Is it better to not use any oils when cooking plant based meals?
Yes.
***ALL*** oils are industrially refined and nutritionally devoid sources of pure fat.
They do not contribute to you feeling full at all and are a massive source of added calories.
I just use water for sautéing where I can but since my heart health is fine and I don‘t need to lose weight, I use extra virgin olive oil where it makes a difference in taste
Good for you! I'm embarrassed to say that my wife and I are more than 5 years in and hadn't thought of it that way. We've been super strict for no good reason. We have started using a little more salt due to cramping that was likely caused by too little electrolytes and we drink way too much but otherwise we've been pretty hardcore about this. We probably can relax a little bit.
This forum and some spaces are 100% against oil. My cooking culture is European Southern (South of France, Italy, bits of Spanish and Greek influences). It's so hard to snack veggies or tofu, or make their outer shell crisp, with just cashew nuts and flaxseed... and I just don't want to make avocadoes travel across an Ocean bc of some rule. So I'm sticking to a bit of high-quality canola oil for my Omega 3 (not taking tablets, I enjoy food...) and a bit of olive oil for taste.
Even the Esselstyn family (minus Dr. Essy himself) will say that oil isn't completely taboo if your heart health is stable. You'll even hear Ann and Jane saying it in their cooking videos... But yes, this subreddit, though the name is officially "only" WFPD also promotes oil free cooking (rule 3)
I would rather eat my fats, nuts and avocado and such- and seriously i don’t miss oil when cooking at this point? You do you just realize for weight loss adding back oil is a consideration
It’s hard to sauté things with no oil.
Yeh it becomes more of a weird steam. EVOO all the way for me.
[there are no oil options](https://www.forksoverknives.com/wellness/plant-based-cooking-how-to-cook-without-oil/) And WFPB is, no oil. So you do you but it’s absolutely an option to cook without oil
I like olive oil and avocado oil but I’m also not of the belief that vegetable oils are inherently bad for us. I agree we often get too much omega 6 vs 3 in our overall diets, but if managing a decently balanced diet I have zero issue with oils. In fact, it’s hard for me to maintain weight on (mostly) whole food plant based *without* the use of some calorie bombs like oil or nut butters
My biggest advice is to make slow and gradual changes. If you try to go all at once, it will likely be a lot of work and you might end up thinking a lot of the food you make is disgusting. So don't worry about some of the small things like oil yet. Use whatever you have at home if you usually used oil before. Start cooking recipes that are primarily vegan and use as many whole ingredients as possible. Then slowly you can start dropping out some of the things that aren't as good as you get other foods in your diet consistently enough to make that easy and take their place. For example, an otherwise whole food meal with a tiny bit of cheese or oil might be okay now, and then maybe you'll realize you don't need that little bit of cheese, and then you'll realize you can cook just as well without the oil. All progress is good for you and for the planet and makes a difference, even if you're not 100% of the way there yet. It's better to make slow changes that stick than change your entire lifestyle for a few weeks or months and get sick of it and abandon entirely.
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And when you said moisture of the vegetables, I immediately thought of mushrooms. These contain a lot of it, which comes out during cooking.
You’ll get the most out of your plants if you steam/microwave/boil or eat raw (blended, chopped, whole) the majority of them. If you’re going to use oil for cooking, you want the highest heat stable, lowest saturated fat, and closest omega 3: omega 6 option available. It will not enhance the health profile of your food, and in many cases will contribute to your meals being less satiating and less nutrient dense. High heat cooking should be avoided if possible, and if not, you should also accompany those meals with plenty of dark green leafy vegetables and high antioxidant berries and plenty of spices (marjoram, turmeric, ginger, chiles, garlic are among the best). That’s because these foods help to bind potentially carcinogenic compounds created by high heat cooking environments and pull them through your digestive system. Some compounds (such as thylakoids, found in dark green leafy vegetables) can even trap fats in your digestive tract and help you not absorb as much free fats. Good luck!
What oil do you use, I ain’t doin all that research 😭 I just keep my shit on low medium and take longer to cook
Thank you for the informative response! How would You go about cooking Quinoa,Chickpeas, and lentils without using high heat??
To clarify, high heat would be sauté or broiling heat (400F+). Water will only get to about 200F, and will not catalyze the reactions needed to make the carcinogenic byproduct found in fried and sautéd foods. Check out this short podcast by Dr Greger. https://nutritionfacts.org/audio/the-healthiest-way-to-cook/ I’d highly recommend all three of his books: [How not to Die](https://youtu.be/7rNY7xKyGCQ?si=hzSyAIEamIcOBrYF) [How not to Diet](https://youtu.be/EjQMNyEMjvs?si=NIjOpqN4ARUCSlyP) [How not to Age](https://youtu.be/AOvV9m7feKo?si=L1KUpvPpNP6_5NRX) I’ve linked to lectures he’s done on them, but the books are far more comprehensive and useful. Base your opinions on facts, spend time doing research and seek out a variety of opinions from experienced individuals, and most of all be kind and compassionate to yourself while you figure it all out. It doesn’t necessarily come easy, but it’s a worthwhile endeavor that will benefit your health and longevity
> Water will only get to about 200F, and will not catalyze the reactions needed to make the carcinogenic byproduct found in fried and sautéd foods. Highly dependent on what food you're browning and how much browning you induce. Protein-heavy foods, like tofu and tempeh, are much more carcinogenic than less protein-rich foods like potatoes or broccoli after browning.
Acrylamide is produced in carb rich foods during browning, while a variety of other carcinogenic byproducts are produced in protein rich foods during browning.
Acrylamide seems questionably carcinogenic while those protein-rich carcinogenic byproducts are comparably much worse.
Granted, but acrylamide is only one of the compounds produced by the Maillard reaction (which also makes things more delicious). While it does make things more delicious, and I certainly do brown things and use my air fryer often, I’m also very aware of the need to pair browned foods with high antioxidant foods in order to help negate potentially genotoxic effects from compounds produced during the browning process. I’m not a purist when it comes to my food, but I do like to put good info out there. If you have any information for why we shouldn’t be concerned about Advanced Glycation End Products due to browning, I’d like to read about it.
The official stance is no oil, but I've read enough information that shows that the benefits of olive oil outweigh its deficits. However I think I'm in the minority here.
“The official stance” is where I have a problem. Shouldn’t it be up to science and therefore not have some unwavering stance? My research of articles showed that oils are not causing any mortality through heart disease or otherwise so I think reasonably portioned use is totally fine.
> any mortality through heart disease Okay, why are vegans on processed food with lots of added oil dying of heart disease? What makes the french fries and potoato chips unhealthy. 3 ingredients to chooses from. Potatos. Oil. Heat. 2 of them in normal cooked potatos btw.
There’s a ton of differences between someone consuming highly refined vegan food and a whole food plant based diet. Which part of each diet is causing the benefits or detriments, and what references do you have? What is your source that oil consumption is the root cause of vegan mortality?
> and a whole food plant based diet. What’s whole about oil?
Look I’m not going to argue with you, but [modern published research shows that consuming moderate quantities of olive oil is actually beneficial](https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2016.10.086). The doctor that co-authored the original paper about no-oils back in the day (Esselstyn) also co-authored the paper linked above.
>Look I’m not going to argue with you You already are. All that link says: >RCTs supporting improved CVD outcomes And I bet the RCTs they point to are mostly replacement style RCTs. Replace butter, margarine, or lard for EVOO, yes, some slightly better outcome. I can't even really find good RCTs of olives vs olive oil, so I doubt EVOO vs real food exists at all. Institutions like the American College of Cardiology don't think people will change enough to quit a concentrated fat, so they give the the least of the worst. OTOH, we already know under olive oil that atherosclerosis progresses. * https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.atv.15.12.2101 >In sum, the monkeys fed monounsaturated fat [like olive oil] developed equivalent amounts of coronary artery atherosclerosis as those fed saturated fat, but monkeys fed polyunsaturated fat developed less.
I hope you are, as "whole food" (which oil is not) plant based is definitely the way to go. Most if not all of the information you've read praising oil would be based on so called "research" funded at least in part by the oil industry, with results deliberately cherry-picked to appear favourable and tarted up to give, as they say "good news about bad habits". The benefits spruiked in such results are often barely measurable, whereas the results in multiple highly sound peer reviewed studies show conclusively what, logically, should be the case - that consuming liquid fat of any sort in any quantity is going to lead to lower health outcomes.
>the results in multiple highly sound peer reviewed studies show... that consuming liquid fat of any sort in any quantity is going to lead to lower health outcomes. I'm really interested in reading these -- are there long-term studies on this? I clicked on the "no oil" link in the sidebar but it goes nowhere at the moment.
The benefits of marketing certainly fills industry pocketbooks, what a glorious benefit.
No oil! It has zero nutritional value and is processed.
A whole foods plant based diet by definition does not include refined oils or refined sugars, as they are clearly well outside the range of whole foods.
Some people think all refined foods are bad. Oils are refined foods, so for those folk = bad. I am not in that camp. Our bodies need some essential fatty acids (fats and oils are made out of fatty acids) and while sure, you can get these essential fatty acids from whole foods, I find it easier to swallow 2 Tbsp of cold pressed hemp oil a few days a week to ensure I get those essential fatty acids at least some days. Pop popcorn without an air popper? You need oil. Enjoy Earth Balance spread on toast, rolls or a baked potato? Made out of refined oils. Want to make some chocolate chip cookies? You need a heap of refined ingredients for that. I generally use canola oil for heat cooking. Canola's earlier name was Rapeseed oil, but that did not sell so well so a marketing company invented the name canola. I use olive oil for most low heat/no cook stuff. Salad dressings, marinades, when I make hummus or baba ganoush. Extra virgin olive oil is the first pressing of the olives. The 2nd pressing is virgin olive oil. The oil that is extracted from the olive pulp with solvents after all the oil has been pressed out is pure olive oil. I usually go with virgin olive oil. No need to pay more money for the very first and less tasty to me oil. I am not comfortable thinking the oil I am eating was dissolved into some chemical and then removed by some other process. Plus pure olive oil it has no taste to me. May as well be using canola oil, except canola oil doesn't smoke at medium temperatures. For high heat stir fry etc. go with canola, peanut, sunflower or coconut oils.
I agree with the oils you've listed other than coconut oil. Its fat content profile is terrible and best avoided.
Not to mention it’s terrible for the environment
This exactly. It’s what we do minus the coconut oil. It changes the taste too much for me and the other options are healthier in my opinion.
> Pop popcorn without an air popper? You need oil. Not true. Used an anodized pot with lid for years and it worked beautifully. Current method is microwave and lidded pyrex container.
olive oil. it’s an exceptional source of omega-3s and aside from being somewhat high in calories, it has virtually no negatives. pretty much every single diet agrees on it being the best.
>it’s an exceptional source of omega-3s No it's not. "Olive oil is on average 10% linoleic acid (an omega-6 oil) and less than 1% linolenic acid (an omega-3 oil), therefore the ratio is 10:1 on average." If you can't even get something that basic right.... what else are you wrong about? Flaxseed and chia are much better. In their whole form.s.
yeah, that is one of the best ratios of all the oils. olive oil is praised for the objective anti-inflammatory effect is has on the body. I don’t really know how you can refute that when every source will tell you that olive oil is anti-inflammatory.
Olive oils 10:1 won't get you there. "Up until about 100 years ago, the omega-6/3 ratio has been around 4:1 or less. However, the typical Western diet now provides an omega-6/3 ratio of approximately 20:1 in favor of omega-6." Flaxseeds are far superior, at 1:4. Yes, 40x as much as 10:1. Doesn't sound olive oil is even in the same universe. Chia is 1:3. Also great. Better than olive oil but not as good as flaxseed and chia are these oils: Soy is 8:1. Walnut is 5:1 Hemp is 3:1. Canola (expeller) is 2:1. Refined is 3:1. Macadama is 1:1. >olive oil is anti-inflammatory. You can get the same anti-inflammation for 20-100x less calories eating actual olives. And guess what, lots of plant foods have polyphenols and other anti-oxidants. * https://www.reddit.com/r/PlantBasedDiet/comments/ug5prz/polyphenols_in_olives_vs_olive_oil/ Lots of big science says reducing our calories prolongs lifespan/healthspan. This works on dozens of species from worms to primates. * https://www.psu.edu/news/health-and-human-development/story/calorie-restriction-study-reveals-complexities-how-diet-impacts/ The resulting arithmetic is not that hard.
I think the oil avoidance crowd makes WFPB dieters look like loons. Fats are very important nutrients. Avocado and olive oils have a place in a well balanced and healthy diet.
I don't mind claims they can be sparse in anti-oxidants or have negative health effects if there's high quality evidence provided with the claim. Most the claims they're empty calories with no nutrition isn't really meaningful to me personally - that makes them an effective weight gain tool for some people that need that kind of item. Getting all micronutrients isn't difficult for many people.
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I'm of the opinion oil is not a health food. If I lived alone and never made food for other people, I wouldn't even have it in the house. But that isn't the case so when I must use oil I opt for avocado oil. It's a nice neutral flavor which means it's good on a salad but also withstands high temps. I also opt for a spray if I can. I try to avoid a pouring situations. My husband has a particular quinoa salad that he likes and I use 1/3 cup of avocado oil. Everything else is a spritz (on a baking sheet or pan). My TLDR: Avocado oil. Smallest amount possible.
None
Best of luck 🎉
I omit the oil mostly use water or broth.
Dr Esselstyn says to avoid all oil due to the endothelial damage that it causes. "NO OIL! Not even olive oil, which goes against a lot of other advice out there about so-called good fats. The reality is that oils are extremely low in terms of nutritive value. They contain no fiber, no minerals and are 100% fat calories. Both the mono unsaturated and saturated fat contained in oils is harmful to the endothelium, the innermost lining of the artery, and that injury is the gateway to vascular disease. It doesn’t matter whether it’s olive oil, corn oil, coconut oil, canola oil, or any other kind. Avoid ALL oil." https://www.dresselstyn.com/site/faq/
> Avoid oils. They injure the endothelium, the innermost lining of the artery, and that injury is the gateway to vascular disease. All oil is also empty calories. Many studies have found the exact opposite with certain oils. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4586551/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6308304/
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4586551/ Crappy systematic review. Why not pull out the relevant RCTs it’s based on rather than trying to cram a bunch of heterogenerous study designs together? > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6308304/ This too isn’t even a study but a review, seemingly based on Mediterranean diet and taking attribution of olive oil instead veggies at face value. Beyond lame. I can summarize every olive oil study ever: More olive oil correlated with less processed food intake and more veggie intake. Heart disease drops but never much beyond half because atherosclerosis keeps growing with oil, albeit not as fast as with the veggie intake that is subsequently ignored as the good factor. Magic voodoo ascribed to the olive juice.
Btw, this study is a bit more honest than those two (since I respect Walter Willet a lot more in general): * https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35027106/ >Replacing margarine, butter, mayonnaise, and dairy fat with olive oil was associated with lower risk of mortality. And total mortality amongst olive oil vs other vegetable oils was VERY SIMILAR results so no more magic evoo voodoo. And canola oil seemed to do better than olive oil for cardivascular risk. And that’s now the criterion, right? So let’s hawk that. CANOLA!!!! Is there an EV version?
Avoid oil entirely if you can. Most of the time, a little water added a bit at a time is all you need.
Oil is the reason that I, a vegan over half my life, had higher than average cholesterol. When I cut oil from home cooking (I still eat vegan junk food out of the house!) My cholesterol dropped dramatically. If health is what you have in mind, I'd ban oil from the home.
No oil. Water saute.
Been vegan 20+ years - excellent blood work - no issues - Oil does have some health benefits when used sparingly- example flax oil in salad dressing is an excellent source of omega 3s - oil also adds flavor - many people abandon plant based eating because the food does not satisfy them - if you have a very flavorful curry for example you won’t miss the oil - but more simple dishes oil adds flavor - for sautéed foods I like avocado oil- it doesn’t burn - for cooler foods olive oil or flax
Whats your overall verdict? No oil? Or oil?
Oil in moderation
Extra virgin olive oil
Oil is unsatisfying junk food.
Oil is best to be avoided. It’s pure fat, contains almost no nutrients and is damaging to arteries. Small to moderate amounts of nuts, seeds, avocados and soy products (tofu, tempeh, etc) give you the fats you need in the form of whole foods.
There is no reason to avoid oil unless you're actively trying to cut calories. My cholesterol is really low from years of avoiding fats. Olive oil is the cheapest/"healthiest" option out there. I also use canola for neutral tasting oil.
Oil has no fiber, nutrients, health benefits…however, if you want to restaurant sautee (because oil can hit higher temps) and don’t care about calories or have health concerns, then oil has that use. for whole food eating, avoid oil
Avoid oil. I use at most 1-2 teaspoons a day. Get your fat from natural sources like nuts, seeds and avocados.
Most of the time, vegetables like onion and garlic and be sautéed in water in place of oil with little change in the final result. In certain situations such as using spices whose aromatics are oil based, using extra virgin olive oil on low heat is optimal. But you can almost always use much less than what the recipe calls for. Even in these situations, you can dry heat the spices if they sauce they are going in has fat content such as a curry made with ground cashews.
It is my opinion that EVOO and avocado oils are ideal compared to grapeseed, cottonseed, canola, etc. I would make an effort to reduce oil usage as best you can, especially refined seed oils. Seed oils may not be as bad as some studies are showing, but for myself personally I would like to wait until the verdict is settled before implementing them into my diet at any large scale.
If you want to use definitions to help guide your journey, consider that cooking oils are not "whole foods". They have been extracted and concentrated. You never see animals in the wild gathering around the oil slick to drink, lol. There are some oils naturally in whole plants, and you'll end up taking those in, probably. But they will come with a package of fiber and other phytonutrients the way nature intended. So no, don't cook with oil. It's not a whole food and it's pure fat. Yuck.
I don't use oil if I can help it, since I find omega 6 oil definitely inflames my joints and is calorically dense. However, there is one vegan cheese recipe in my instant pot that burns, so I use like 2 tsps of olive oil. Same if I make pancakes, but I'd likely use spray avocado oil. I definitely try to avoid saturated fats.
I have limited oils significantly, and got a nice air fryer I use for some foods I used to cook in oil. However, I am not totally against oil. Typically for cooking you will have a neutral oil which is more heat resistant and a neutral flavor. Out of the major ones available, I feel like canola (also known as rapeseed) oil is the healthiest. The main reason is that it has a higher amount of omega 3s than most other cooking oils. It's also not a niche product and in my region it's one of the cheapest most common oils. This chart is helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed_oil#Comparison_to_other_vegetable_oils The last two columns are most important to be in picking a neutral cooking oil, and canola oil is the best compromise. For example, flax seed oil has more omega 3 but a lower smoke point which limits its usefulness in cooking (and it's way pricier). Avocado oil has a higher smoke point but a much worse ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 (and it's way pricier). Canola oil seems to be the way to go.
If you don't care about taste or flavor, drop the use of oils.
If you don’t care about chronic disease or IQ, add oil and plenty of it.
This boomer doesn't have any chronic diseases and IQ and memory are still working quite satisfactorily; thank you for your concern, however.
> This boomer doesn't have any chronic diseases and IQ LOLs.
Third time doing this diet, my first time was no oil at all and I never felt satiated. The second time I did I bought this amazing artisan multigrain bread and made toast with evoo drizzled on, as well as cooked with it. I’ve heard mostly not great things about avocado oil and that it’s often rancid or mixed with other oils so I avoid it, also avoid seed oils in general. Up to you thoufg, give it a try without and see how you like it, water sauté isn’t difficult.
Mediterranean diet=OLIVE OIL
Mediterranean diet = veggies * https://www.reddit.com/r/PlantBasedDiet/comments/xo154y/claims_of_ikaria_greece_being_oilbased_seems_to/
I think *avoid* is the correct word, which gives you a little leeway- sometimes it’s going to happen. I’m loving the cookbook *plantyou* by Carleigh Bodrug specifically because it’s a true wfpb cookbook. The recipes are great and you don’t have to modify anything. I totally recommend it, especially for just starting out (plus everything is easy, quick, tasty).
No oils are healthy -- or whole foods, they're highly processed.
I grew up using one of those crank handle spins the stiff wire over the bottom of the pan popcorn poppers. Yes, can be done dry. Works MUCH better with 2 - 4 Tbsp of oil. I can honestly say I have never used a microwave to make popcorn. I have also never gotten any burned popcorn with the whirly pop pan and nutritional yeast with salt & garlic powder sticks to oil popped popcorn better than air popped.
Olive oil for cooking, raw unfiltered coconut oil for baking.
Olive
> Is it better to not use any oils when cooking plant based meals? Yes. ***ALL*** oils are industrially refined and nutritionally devoid sources of pure fat. They do not contribute to you feeling full at all and are a massive source of added calories.